Bigorexia: Teens eating everything in the house, muscle building, and Bigorexia.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug where we use Research by Expert and our own experience to discuss everything and anything to do with parenting teenagers.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hi there, I'm Susie Asley, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician, and mother of three teenagers.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Two of them are twins. Susie, I have four girls, you have two boys. What's it like feeding boys? Endless. Endless, endless. Because in phases, sometimes it's endless. Yes, we had some feedback from one of our listeners who said it's like feeding locusts. Yeah, it can be, yes. So uh the reason I bring this up is that Louise has asked us for help. Her son, who's 17, studying A levels, which is what you do in England at that age, and has a part-time job, is eating her out of house and home. Normal. Um, but here's where it's more complicated. He goes to the gym to muscle build five days a week and then expects her to provide him with the foods that go with that. And with the current financial climate, she says she can't really afford to provide him with all that food to match those gymneys. Yeah, which is totally understandable.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Five days a week.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yeah, exactly. And she expects him to ask if he wants to eat food in the house because some of it's earmarked for an evening meal or for baking, and it depends on how he feels, whether he will ask or just help himself. And I mean, come on, planning meals and shopping is such a bore, isn't it? And to find that everything's gone or with that one ingredient that you were planning to use, that's I can understand, I really relate to that. So she says they're continually falling out over this, which then impacts the stepdad and his relationship because he feels that her lad isn't showing respect for her and she wants to know what to do. Complicated power relations. Power relations, exactly. Um, I think this case has an added layer of interest because he's a muscle-building gym goer, and understanding what's going on in a teen boy's life can be very useful for some of our listeners. Yeah. Uh, Susie, have you heard of the term bigorexia?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

It very, very recently. It's not something I'm familiar with.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I'm not saying that this boy has it in any way, but I want to talk about it in this episode because I first heard the term from my daughter who said loads of boys at her school seem obsessed with bulking up.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

And size seems to be used as a tool also for bullying. She said she sees boys being bullied about their size. And the term came up again when I was interviewing Mike Nicholson from Progressive Masculinity about raising boys. Even who people who specialise in this area say it's little recognized, but it's a growing problem.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So I think it's worth talking about it so we can spot it. Firstly, let's talk about our golden nuggets. What do you have for us this week, Susie?

Re-connecting with an older teen.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Well, I have a really lovely experience, which was um my eldest did these A-levels, these end of school exams, which are unnecessarily annoying. Um, and then they finished, and we went to Berlin for the weekend. Oh wow. And then my partner and his son, who also had finished A-levels, and we went for a couple of nights, and it was just so lovely. The kind of relief that they'd finished, they're both quite knackered. Um, but just wandering around the city um and just chatting and just enjoying their company. It was real, really lovely. It kind of felt like oh, we're in a in a in a new phase um of yeah, just enjoying his company. He's quite funny and hooking around seeing me. It was really lovely, yeah. Just having time away from other siblings and in a different place is very lovely. Special and just recognizing that actually, do you know what? You're really good company.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Fantastic. Now I

Are we doing too much?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

stayed with my two girls at a friend's house, and the next day I had to drive to meet some other friends who'd invited my husband and I on their boat. My daughters were tasked with making it home on their own. They'd picked up uh, they were going to be picked up at the station by their grandma, who was going to cook them lunch, and I was driving to driving to meet this boat when I started getting phone calls from one of them saying, Oh, I don't know which train shall I catch. And then the grandma sent me a message saying, When are they going to arrive? And I suddenly, I was really stressed thinking, why like why am I fielding these calls? And it suddenly occurred to me that I have been stepping in too much. And sometimes we do this, and this particular child is quite a perfectionist, and there's an element of her that thinks that there's a right way to do things. So I think she often defers to check with me, you know, am I doing this right? And I just said to her, I trust you. You just make that decision. You've got the app, just look it up. And it was one of those moments when I thought, crikey, I've just been doing too much. And the same with the grandmother, where I just texted her and said, Can you actually talk to the girls themselves? I don't need to be involved. But it's interesting, isn't it, how this can creep, and that it's quite nice to be wanted, but it's not helpful to them.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

No, no, that's really interesting. And I I find it for myself, it's in it's in different areas, like some areas they're really, really independent, and in some I I have enabled them, and and they it comes sometimes as a bit of a surprise.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yes, yes, as a wake-up call for me. So that's good. Take note, Rachel. Right. We've had feedback on our anger chat, which was episode 45 from Georgina. I can't pronounce it was it Riosh?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yes, yes, I don't know how to pronounce it, but that's yes. So she says, thank you for the feedback. She says, This is brilliant, so lovely hearing both of you chat away and about something that is so important to us all. R. e. anger, so valuable, and R.E. living and losing things. I never knew the science, but also knew my children didn't do it because they chose to. It was very annoying with a daily 90-minute round trip. Ouch. But I still drove them back as they panicked so. I always felt the dyslexic mind didn't really help much either. All in it together. Bravo, what you do. I love what you do, yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

So she's um dyslexic, and she her children are neurodiverse as well. Uh so she follows us on Instagram and listens to our podcasts. And yes, that I think that having a dyslexic mind can really make this quite challenging. So patience. We all need a bit of patience. We do do this.

Managing food needs at home.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

So, right, let's have a look at this eating dilemma because it is a well, it's and a power dilemma, right? Food is a massive issue for parents and teens. And we talked back in our there was an episode many, many, many episodes ago, uh, about how to talk to your child about healthy eating without giving them an eating disorder. We've never touched on bigorexia and we've never touched on how we manage this kind of, you know, incredible. So I remember my friend's brother, when he was going through that sort of teen stage, I'd go over to see her and he'd be on his third or fourth bowl, full bowl of Wheatabics. And I was just shocked, right? Because I was not eating very much because I just didn't need to eat an awful lot. So it's quite a wake-up to realise.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, boys can eat a lot when they are growing. We I've the Wheatabix thing, I recognise that one of mine has eaten a lot of Wheatabics, and I'm just sitting there watching, going, where's it all going? Where's it going? There's nothing. Where's half a loaf of bread I just bought?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yes, and the boys in my school used to go down to the news agent with their lunch money and buy a quarter of a loaf of bread, put tomato ketchup all over it and eat that. Disgusting. Anyway, so uh I I I only went to school with the best, obviously. Right, so before we go deep on the bigger exit, let's talk about Louisa's situations. Now, she has this difficult dynamic, son who actually has a part-time job, going to the gym regularly, every day, well, nearly every day, and then coming back and eating food that may or may not be available for him. What are your thoughts about this?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Well, it's really interesting, isn't it? And I think food in general um and issues with food are generally related to control. And that can look really different. And I definitely hear they're being control things, understandably, you know, she wants to have the right ingredients, as you say, in the fridge for dinner. Um, the stepdad um has opinions about you know whether people should ask or not. And I think it always comes down to we talk about it ad nauseum is what what are your boundaries in it? You know, what it what is important? So if it is important to people in the family that you ask before you take a snack, then just making that really clear. Um if I don't know, it could maybe could maybe possibly could be solved quite simply by saying, Do you know what? In the fridge, this shelf is untouchable, do not touch, you know, and this shelf I'm gonna put snacks here and you can help yourself. Um and then it's clear, isn't it? It there seems to me maybe there's a lack of clarity as to what you can and can't do, and and whether you can ask or not ask, and what you can eat and what you can't eat. And yes, cost is a is a really big issue because because food is really expensive at the moment. So there are things you can really fill up with that are actually really cheap. So, you know, this you can eat until you're you know, until you're absolutely stuffed, but this you can't because that's really expensive, you know. Yeah. Porridge oakes are really cheap. Yes, um, things like that. Um, it doesn't have to be, you know, the best protein because you're just because you're working out.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

And the scarcity factor, that sort of, you know, the there's plenty or there's not, yes, and that feeling that you're missing out because somebody might take something that you thought you wanted. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Um yeah, just deciding what is what's important, what's a non-negotiable um as ever, and can you structure the food so that it's really clear what you can take and what you can't take.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yes, and I can't help thinking that you know, she says sometimes he does ask, sometimes he doesn't. I wonder whether that's a boy who okay, so he's going to the gym. Yeah, we'll we'll park that for the minute, but he's coming back, he's probably ravenous, and there are times when he can't wait, he's starving. And he by by allocating a shelf or allocating foods that are very quick and easy, then you get you get around that because the whole waiting to ask, if you're starving.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Sometimes my youngest boy is in a he's in a growth spurt right now, and he eats everything. And he's kind of sometimes says he comes home from school and he's it's like I can barely see mum, I'm so hungry. Um give just put something in my mouth. Yes. Yes, I can imagine. It just has to be handy quick, and then then he's then his blood sugar settles or whatever, and and then you can have a conversation with him.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Yeah, and I used to with my kids when they were young and going through that big graying phase, uh, I knew they'd get out of school and they'd be ravenous. And I would always have things like carrot sticks available so that they had something to eat quickly and that was healthy, or apples, or anything like that. But again, these things carrots are relatively cheap, it depends where you are and what the prices of these things are. But like you say, porridge is a really great one. You can actually cook, you can have overnight oats and they can be ready at any point. Great an apple and it won't have to start. Yes. And it's so one of the things I read was um a person saying that they like to use the teenage laziness to their advantage. So they'll put things on the shelf that are quick and easy to eat, like sausage rolls, knowing that they won't then try and reheat something or try and start cooking things in the kitchen and making a mess.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

And I think you're really right. It it is laziness. Um, we're all lazy. Um, but it's also I need something and it has to be now, because I'm so hungry.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yes. Absolutely. Some people said I'd put a padlock on the cupboard, which is quite painful. I don't know, that's probably not what I'd do.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I mean, to be honest, um, and my son doesn't listen to this. We hide stuff like sure. Uh he she has a he has a twin sister, and I buy nice breakfast things. And um, if I don't put them in away, then then they're gone. They're literally gone. Like he'll just eat his way through the whole lot. And that's a key yes. And so we put them in with we have like a special cupboard, and and he hasn't worked out where it is yet. But it that's where so she just takes it from there.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

I mean, you don't that's one looking to well, yeah, a cabinet that's not. It's just makes it easier.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yes, just to stop that urge to grab it when you're yeah, well, otherwise there's none left for anyone else. Yes, and I'm always a fan of um enabling, having said what I said earlier about how I haven't enabled my kids, but I really like to teach them right from the ground up. And I think with this boy, what I'd be doing is first of all talking to him, I'd I'd want to connect with him. I feel like, you know, so much of this is about your relationship with them and how much you can kind of understand where they're coming from. So why are you going to the gym five days a week? What's happening there? What do you think is the deficit of whether you want to talk about calories or your food needs? How does that how does that increase your food needs? And what sort of things are you considering good things to eat with that? She says he eats healthy meals with them.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, there's a lot of I think to do with going to the gym, and I've seen with with both of my boys, I think there's an awful lot of stuff on social media and wherever they're reading things, um, of what to eat when you're training, which is all part of it. And and I think some of that is also problematic if if it's because it can be really pricey, you know, you need these protein shakes, you need these particular stuff, and and they they of course the you know the kids buy into it because they they want to look a particular way or for whatever reason, and a lot of that's really expensive. So having a conversation about you know what could be an alternative, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

But that is a big part of it. So I think I do think the connection and the the sitting down and sitting with him and going through what he's trying to achieve and trying to understand it better will help her feel more compassion for his situation. For him, I think one of the really good ways of dealing with this is for example, I was living with a friend many years back and her husband went, There's no ribena. And she said, Well, if you came shopping with me, there'd be ribena. So I with him, I would have a weekly budget and I would say, Right, you're coming shopping. We can do it on a Sunday or a Saturday or whenever. But that's our budget, and you tell me what you need, but you or you can have this amount of money, you budget for it, and once it's gone, it's gone. You can supplement everything with what you're earning in your you know extra job, but it's not my job to do all of that, pay for all of that extra food that you're then needing because you've made a choice about your lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

It is an eye-opener. My eldest has been shopping with me a few times for for various reasons, and and he's like, Oh my god, it's so expensive.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

And it's really good for them because then they totally understand why you feel the way you do. It's very important for them to have that because I think often we we don't engage them in the shop in the shopping, walking around the shops looking at value for money. And I was talking to one lovely lady who's a nurse who's Australian, and she said with her son, she taught him this complete standby recipe, which was beans. And you were like, Oh, that's gonna make your life. But it's really already super healthy for your gut, and beans, most people have got beans in their cupboard. And yeah, and uh there's it. I've got a chili sincane recipe, which I'll put on the um my blog. And it you just have to have a whole load of spices and anything, any of the vegetables you've got in the fridge that might that might be wilting, chop them up, stick them in that with with it, and cook it up. You can put a bit of cheese on top if you eat that sort of thing. But it and that you can make a big batch of it, and it can be just on standby.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah. I used to live in in uh Denmark for years, and um they eat a lot of rye bread, which is very filling and very um very nutritious and very filling. And um, my friends of mine would, you know. Oh, you have to eat a couple of slices of rye bread before dinner. Great, yes, otherwise you're gonna eat all the meat or all the um so just kind of as a lining. Yes, and it's really filling and really nutritious, and it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yes, yes, and and giving them these recipes and getting them involved in the cooking of those things will then furnish them for their future because they need to understand how to prepare for themselves if they're going to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

And it's also supporting a healthy lifestyle because I think you know it's it's a balance, isn't it? So kids, uh boys who want to work out and want to be strong, I think that's a great thing. I mean, that's fundamentally it's a brilliant thing. It's it's good that they want to look after their bodies, it's good they want to be fit and strong. It's just as long as it doesn't become an obsession. Yeah. Um, but the you know, the the intention behind it, if that's a healthy one, then that's that's that can be supported. And yes, let's eat healthily and let's work out how.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yes, but also remembering that you when you live in a house, you're with a family and everybody's needs have to be treated equally. So you can't just say, right, I'm going to need all of this because I've done that workout in the gym when everybody else is having to cut back and have nothing.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, no, if everyone's having to cut back, that's that's a problem. But as in any situation in a family, it's it's not always, you know, in we don't always have an equal portion of everything, do we? We need what we need, and that can look different. So if somebody is really, you know, I I do not eat as much as my boys, I don't need that. So for me to go, well, I need you know, that would be weird.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. But it's about it's about understanding you're in a family, you're in a family group, and that you need to be yeah, you need to be considerate of what everybody else's needs are. So it sounds like they need a good family conversation about this and set down some really clear, yeah, clear rules. And um, you know, if he wants more, he's got a part-time job he can pay for some of the extras.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, and just you know, just being really clear on, you know, if you're coming in hungry, it's this shelf. Yeah, absolutely. And only that shelf.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yes. And be prepared for it. Yeah. Oh, and someone else mentioned that they buy those um bottles of or cartons of juice that the the home brand juice, apple juice or whatever. And so when they're glugging stuff down or milk, or you know, they they they then you can have the separate, you don't want them drinking all the milk and then no one's got some for tea the next morning. That's annoying. We've been there. We've been there. This is the thing. So those are the little things that piss people off. So it's just being clear with him that that's going to piss me off. You do that, you do this, it's not such a thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, and if you should drink the last bottle of milk, then bye-bye. I know. Off you go, and go and buy another one.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Or you do what my husband does, which is he opens a brand new bottle of milk when there's still three bottles of milk in the fridge that are open that he's opened in the past. Every time he opens the fridge, he opens a new bottle of milk. Oh, he's really helpful, isn't it? Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I might just put the empty bottles back and you think they're they're full and they're not, you pick them up. Oh, they're on.

Bigorexia; what it is and how to support your teen.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Right. So, as I said earlier, it seems like a really good time to also talk about bigorexia. And it's an informal term coined by psychiatrists for a type of muscle dysmorphia mostly experienced by men, but also some women experience it. Uh, how can you tell someone is experiencing extreme amounts of weightlifting, a fixation on the feeling that you're not muscular enough, and rigid eating or exercise protocols designed to lessen weight and build muscle. So they want to be cut, is what they call the term cut so you can see the muscle, because if there's fat, they can't see the muscle. So this is it gets a little bit kind of controlling.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah, and it's the same with any eating disorder, isn't it? It's when it becomes obsessive and there's there's like a fear and a panic when they can't work out, when they can't get the food they need, rather than being, oh well, I'll do it tomorrow. It's this it becomes all-consuming. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

And identifying it's quite difficult. And that's because there's first of all, there's low levels of awareness among both physicians and the general public, but also um they look outwardly healthy.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

In fact, they look great for most on most people. Well, when you get to the extremes, they don't look great, they look quite scary. And the fact there's a bigorexia documentary, I saw the trailer and I thought, I've seen enough, because these are people who are using steroids and who are injecting things into their muscles, and they just it's freakish, it's horrible. So, but the problem is that there's a um when an individual with bigorexia looks in the mirror, it's a bit like when an anorexic looks in the mirror and they just aren't seeing the reality. Body dysmorphia. It's body dysmorphia, yes. And um there's a classic bodybuilding expression that encapsulates this preoccupation, which is the day you start lifting is the day you become forever small. Because they're never quite big enough. They're never quite right, because like when do you stop? Yeah, when are you big enough? Um and there's a the National Eating Disorder Association is really trying to raise awareness and and get more treatment because the problem is a lot of the eating disorder treatments are aimed at women. Yes. Because traditionally it's been a female thing that people have kind of associated it with, yeah, but it's increasing in the male.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, and for teenagers, I think it's it's you I can see it, it's it's the last few years, and maybe since COVID, when people could start going to the gym and working out at home, I I don't know, it seemed to take off then.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

I don't know if it's kind of and both my girls say just so many boys seem to be in the gym, you know, comparing muscles, uh, you know, bullying others of over their size.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

That's not cool at all. I mean, wanting to be strong and working out, great, go for it. But yeah, then stop.

unknown 21:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

And let's be honest, the idealization of the male physique is it's not really new, is it? Because you remember Arnold, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and uh now there's I mentioned to you before that I met the guy who was the model for the good sex guide. It we it was a photographic. He was he was perfectly lovely, but he yeah, he had a lot of lot of pecs. I'm not sure that they should have used him because actually most people would go, Oh, I don't look like that, and maybe maybe I'm not attractive. But um, he said to me, Oh, my my my goal is to be on the front of Men's Health magazine. Okay, and that's the pinnacle for a lot of guys. Uh, you've got guys who've grown up on Fight Club. Abercrombie and Fitch, do you remember that? Do you remember the adverts for Abercrombie and Fitch? And I remember going to a shop. Yes. With my teenage daughter who was desperate to go and it was like going to a nightclub with bouncers on the door who all were semi naked with rippling cut torsos that it were oiled up. That was an absolute thing. If you there's a documentary about that as well. Their entire remember that. Yeah. And they were just yeah. Yeah. So um you know, and the Calvin Klein billboards. Yeah, yeah. Um and now we've got Chris Hemsworth as Thor and Channing Tatum as Magic Mike, who coincidentally recently spoke out about the normalization of mass muscle in popular culture, saying this isn't healthy.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

No, and they they it's a full-time job. You know, you read about these these pe these uh movie stars who need to look a particular way because maybe they're superhero in the film, and it's a full-time job looking that way.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

You're not gonna look like that if you don't have it. Yeah. So in 2006, sports scientists published a study comparing changes in size of superhero figurines over the year. The result Superman, Incredible Hulk, Batman toys, all increased in muscular circumference. 2018 study of large cohort of teenage boys reported that nearly one-third of those between the ages of 13 and 18 reported that they actively focus on gaining weight or bulking up.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Um, one 2019 University of California um study followed the behaviors, habits, and feelings of 14,000 young people. That's a big number. Yeah. And they found that more than a fifth of men engaged in muscularity-based dis disordered eating behavior.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Gosh, that's very, very high.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

And it was 5% of females as well. Now I think this is really interesting because I have had a daughter with disordered eating, and she said to me, you know what? Um, it's easy to spot with me, but she said, I know a lot of girls who've got disordered eating, but it's not spotted because they're not presenting the way I'm presenting. Loads. And that's the thing. So just because somebody's managed to get into hospital, my daughter wasn't in hospital, it wasn't that bad, but just because your child is in hospital, that's just that's it's all no, but that's also on a spectrum, right? Because there are lots of people who've got disordered eating or controlling eating who haven't managed to get that far. But it's yeah, so it's just kind of being aware of controlling their life. Yeah. And the problem, so the big problem now is that the more muscles you have, the more likes you'll get on social media.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Yeah, I mean it's it's like the the women, isn't it? It's externally driven. It's like the I've said this before in this podcast. What I have bored my kids with, and they roll their eyes when I say it, but they hear it. Is you know, you look amazing, and it's the least interesting thing about I love that saying, yeah. It's so externally driven. It's like, what do we look like? And we all do it, we're all you know, we're all guilty of it, or we all celebrate how we look. It's nice to look nice, it feels nice, but it's when it goes beyond feeling nice and becomes obsessive. Yes, and we can't bear looking a particular way that it's really damaging. Yeah, absolutely. And then the boys uh maybe it was less for the boys earlier, and now it's sadly caught up.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

In a 2020 study, researchers analyzed a thousand um of posts on social media, which and they said they the majority of them showed a full body or upper body, and the majority of the men were lean and muscular. And the results indicated that posts of lean and more muscular men yielded significantly more likes and comments. And this new breed of influences is perpetuating uh is perpetuating this whole new standard of the male aesthetic. And this study that was done, which was at the Maastricht University in the Netherlands, the the the author uh who was the assistant professor said there's clearly a disconnect between the reality of what most people look like and what our teenagers are seeing online.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yes, absolutely, 100%, 100%. And we're at the same time, we're forgetting to teach them to tune inwards and go, what does your body feel like? What food do you love? How much how many weights can you lift? What does that feel like? Are you lifting too many? Is going to the gym five times a week. Is that is that is your body telling you that's a good idea, or is it telling you that you're exhausted and burnt out? And if we we're all individual and we all have different measurements of that, of all of it, but if we can't tune in and and and judge that ourselves, then then we're just looking at the external, and that's really dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

And and the way to spot it, this bigorexia, is if someone's compulsively working out, you know, if they miss a gym session that they get fidgety and they're upset, uh, excessively lifting weights, choosing to prioritize workouts over spending time with family and friends. Uh inappropriate use of anabolic steroids, supplements, protein shakes, all that sort of because that's all be this is an industry. It's being pushed at our kids. And um so you can what you can do to protect them is to you know be on the lookout for these signs of bullying, because often that can end up going in this direction. Limit social media. Always the answer, isn't it? Just limit the social media. Um, yeah, and and talking, it's the same way that I do with my daughters. I take my kids out while that boy is being taken around the shops to go and shop for the food. Stop and say, right, look around you. How many people? What what what do people normally look like? It's not. And the Andrew Tate thing is feeding this because his whole thing is, you know, you've got to look big and cut.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

And yeah, but it's get it is really getting a balance as well, isn't it? Because um, my my eldest, he he didn't work out for ages and he had some back issues, and then he started working out, and and that was real cause for celebration. Absolutely. Absolutely. Great that you're taking care of yourself and and doing this, and um and it's makes him feel really good because you know, lifting weights and doing exercise is is really good. It's a really good idea in very many ways. And we don't want it to take over or to be for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

So it's just staying connected, checking in with them. That's why I was saying with this lady, one thing she can do is there are two it kills two birds with one stone, checking in with him about how he's feeling about the germ and how it's impacting his life and everybody else's and and in a positive way.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah, and maybe five times a week is is totally fine for him.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Maybe it's not, we don't know. Yeah. Um, educating your teen about the issue once again, just let them know it's it exists. How do you feel? Do you know anyone? That's a great one. Do you know anyone who you think might be struggling? Yeah, right. And checking your own attitudes and behavior. I mean, we internalize our own thoughts about how people should look and how we should feel about ourselves. Uh, so this can this can impact on our teams as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

They're so sensitive, aren't they? We talked about that in the other episode, you know, just little comments of um the way you look or the way you know your partner looks, just as a you know, they they pick it all up and they oh so that's not good then to look that way. Oh, okay. And they pick it all up internalized. We at least give out the signal that we feel really comfortable in our own bodies.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Sure. And there is, if you see, you spotted it and you think I think there's a real problem here. There are some things you can do before you go and race for some help. Time boxing your daily weightlifting and exercise activities so that it's only an hour day, it's not more longer than that. Uh, eliminating the use of any steroids, protein shakes, other fitness supplements, right? Deleting calorie trackers or fitness apps and other tools that encourage this close monitoring. I mean, I've had my husband's constantly checking figures, stats. And it's for his weights, wasn't it? Well, he's he's climbing Mont Blanc. He's amazing. He's amazing, but he loves the stats. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. No, but if it if he was out of control, then that would be one of those things that we have now. We have on our many of us on our hands or on our phones, ways of tracking reps and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah, and that can be quite hard to judge, can't it? Because that's really fun.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yes, exactly. Exactly. But that's that's if you if you're yes, exactly, if they're doing this and if also taking part in a social media detox and doing it with them, just to kind of unfollow those high-profile bodybuilders, the big bodybuilders. And if you feel like it's unmanageable, get help. Yeah, but there are people out there who specialise in this. Um, stop, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, and eating disorders, if you can get it quickly, then it's very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

The earlier you interview any site that there's a problem, get in there quick before it really sets in. Because teenagers have minds that are constantly just growing and changing and being pruned. And the more they spent time on one path, the more ingrained that way of thinking will become.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, and friends are really. I had a conversation with my daughter the other day about um about somebody, and and they're really aware of each other in that in those terms, and and that can be really supportive and caring. Yes. Yeah, it's a nice way to bond, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 30:38

So do you have a locust eating all of your food at home or do you have everything carefully managed? Is it all padlocked away? I mean, I'd love to hear how people are doing this.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

I had 10 15-year-olds in my house last night, and all of a sudden Did you need a laurel? Sorry, 10 boys and also five girls. So 15, and they were they um they suddenly all needed dinner. And I was like, oh my god. That's terrifying. What did you do? What did you feed them? Well, I luckily had a whole load of chicken in the freezer and a whole load of pasta. So I just made them a vat of pasta and chicken sauce.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

So that reminds me, uh Nigella Lawson. I was given her book one, her recipe book one year, and I opened it up and it was on this recipe, and it was pasta mixed with uh marmite and butter. And I read that and I thought, that is oh holy cow, I have no food in the house. What do I do to give people a meal? I I know marmite and butter and some pasta. And I can that's not a recipe, that's uh that's like everything's gone wrong, and I've got 10 boys in the house.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

This is quite nice.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I'm gonna try that. I don't think you need to like just suggest it. Anyway, uh, if you've enjoyed this episode, then why not help other parents? Tell your friends, tell the school, follow our podcast. It would be a massive bonus if you left a review. Go on, you know you want to. Um, you can also sign up to receive all the latest at our own website at www.teenagersuntangled.com. There's a blog, reviews, links to every episode. Uh Susie has this amazing, amazing website with lots of a blog and lots of lots of uh update randomly, lots of tips. Yeah, the random time.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

www.mindfulitonlife.co.uk.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yes. Log on there, have a read through the blog, chat to her. Yeah, and you can book a chat with me. Brilliant. Okay, that's it for now. Goodbye. Bye bye for now.