Back to school, third places, manners and our favourite podcasts, shows, books and apps.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello and welcome to Teenagers Untangled, the audio hug for parents going through the teenagers. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Hi there, I'm Susie Asley, mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician, and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twins.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Right, this is the first new episode of this year, and rather than focus on researching one topic, well, we thought we could do a kind of like talking about various subjects. Yeah. We've done this once before. We have, it's fun. Didn't get any feedback. Either positive or negative, so who knows? Here we go again. Who knows? We'll just like if you don't like it, then I guess switch off. Just switch leave it in the dark. I don't know. Anyway, uh firstly, how was your Christmas New Year?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

It was so lovely. So I have my kids every other year. Um, because they go to their dads every other year. Um my partner does the same, and we've managed to work out that we on the year so this year neither of us had kids. So we had a very busy run-up to Christmas because I my twins have their birthday. He has his birthday and we have pre-Christmases because the kids are going away. Da da da da. Wow. And then we did absolutely nothing in an Airbnb for four days. It was absolutely brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

And all the other parents are just going, oh I'm so smug.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I don't care. My world, my life is all or nothing. So I'll relish the nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

No, well done you. I think that's just take the moments when you can, enjoy them, run with them, and uh yeah, just yeah, good for you. Very happy for you. How about you, Rachel? Thank you. How about you? Oh, well, um, our Christmas New Year was kind of what we've been doing a lot uh recently because uh, and I've mentioned this in our podcast before, we I felt the pressure of Christmas a lot when my kids were younger, trying to make it perfect and see all these images of what Christmas was. And if you didn't really have a Christmas you liked, or you didn't really do Christmas, it can be a bit sort of well, like, what am I supposed to do? How does this work? And also, I think parents now will just be looking at the elf on the shelf and then and and and then also adding to that when they become teenagers, how do you adjust all of this and make it something, you know, make still make it special because of course the things have moved on and their beliefs have moved on. So um we just do we basically wear pajamas until midday, then we kind of cook something easy and play games, yeah. And it's very, very, very relaxed. And um I think it's very special, my kids think it's very special because it's the only time of the year when we're completely present and we're there are no pressures to do anything else, and it's it's very special because of that. Yes. And I what's really interesting is I saw lots and lots of parents saying, Oh, it's so stressful um on social media. And but I did see, and I I kept waging in saying, please, please, please don't put this pressure on yourself, make it what you want it to be, particularly parents who've perhaps lost someone in this last year. It's very because they'd say, Well, I want to keep it the way it was, and it's not going to be the same, and it's very difficult. So, what was wonderful is I saw another lady call, I think her Instagram is Fantastic Brains, Alternative Brains, and she said, Oh, we've just done a Christmas that's completely different from the way it was before, and it's the way we wanted to do it, and it was wonderful. So I just want to say there were more of us out there, you know, just just wing it, do it the way you want to do it. If you don't celebrate Christmas, just make time for your family where it's something and design it the way you want it, and ask your teenagers. Yeah, and you're right to do things.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Yeah, you're right, because it's there's a few days where everything stops. However you celebrate, it doesn't matter, does it? It's just appreciating that.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

But having that kind of that time when you can actually just go, oh well, so who are I mean, having said that, I know marriages that are broken down when they've actually had to spend time together over Christmas and go, actually, I don't like it. It's a challenging time too, for sure. Absolutely. Yes. And and for me, my um one of my uh daughters went to Italy over New Year, which is a new thing. I haven't nice actually, we've always been together at New Year. Okay, and I wondered how I was going to feel about it. Actually, it was just lovely. She didn't even message me happy new year. But I didn't mind because I knew that she was with a great friend group, and and then I also inspected it and thought, why am I not worried about her? Because my bonus daughter, when she was with us and she was going out to nightclubs when we were on holiday, I basically spent the whole night awake until she got home feeling just scared, really, really scared. And I put it down to the fact that we have a very open, honest relationship and we talk a lot. Don't you think it matters? You know, that if you actually talk a lot and you understand how the other person thinks, you're much less scared.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah, definitely, because you you think that you know that they're and also it depends on the child, doesn't it? You know, if you have a sensible child, basically, and with good communication, the the fear shrinks dramatically. Yes. I mean, I think my kids are all very different, and um, you know, stuff happens, of course, however good your communication is, uh, for me anyway, and from my perspective, stuff happ still happens, of course it does. But it's how you know how how can we carry on the communication and and and bounce back again. Um and that that is also that also takes away some of the fear because you know that it's temporary.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Temporary, exactly, exactly. And I think that's because I think the fear often hits us as pharaohs. Yeah, we panic. It's you know, because we've been so much in control of their lives, and as they're branching out and going and meeting new people and doing things. I saw a dad who basically spent an hour he'd gone to the nightclub an hour earlier to pick up his daughter and just watching people going in and out and being really scared.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Yeah, and it is, and yeah, because it's it's uh our basic need for certainty, isn't it? Yes, we don't like uncertainty. We don't know if we don't know how they're going to respond to everything, and we don't because they're their own people.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Exactly. Now, we always do a nugget. Well, we don't always do a nugget, but let's do a nugget. Do you have a nugget?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

I do have a nugget. Um so my nugget is um so as we have teenagers, all of us listening, I'm sure still otherwise you wouldn't be listening, probably would you. Um, um, you know, they want to do generally less with family. Um, and and I so I always have like a a f a mantra in my own head anyway, that is like if they want to do something, they suggest something or they ask you to do something, do it, because they might never ask again. Which can go the other way. But um, so my daughter this year, she just had um before Christmas, she's she suddenly had loads of really lovely ideas. She wanted to go and see a show in London, which she's actually doing CCSE. Um, so not like a typical entertainment one, it was it was really fun. Um, and then she wanted to go and see the Christmas lights and can we do that, mum? And and then my twins have their birthday just before because can we go to London? Can we do this? And obviously, you know, you can do it in various ways. We didn't actually spend that much money on it. Um, um, and I just went yes, yes, yes to all of it. And then told you had fun. We had so much fun, and then my 18-year-old, who's done his first time at uni, was coming back. I said, We're gonna do these things. You know, you're really welcome, but you know, please, if you've got other plans, it's completely cool. And it's like, no, I'll come, I'll come. So we did all these really cool, fun things because I'd just gone, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I mean, credit to her, she had the ideas. We just kind of went with her.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

But then then they'll probably come up with more ideas because they can see that it's uh it's something we can do.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

And it's not that long ago. I was kind of dragging her to do stuff. Right. How interesting.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah, really interesting. So keep the faith it changes. Yeah, that's my nugget. Um, mine is that uh my daughter is absolutely wonderful. She's really stepping up recently in helping around the house. And uh I brought back some bags and I said to her, Oh, would you mind just popping that stuff in the pantry? So off she went to the pantry. The next day I went in the pantry and the stuff was just kind of randomly put all over the place. And I called her back and said, darling, this was, you know, thank you so much. It was great. Um, here's a top tip for life. When you walk into a room, any room, think, is there a rule here? Because mostly there are rules, and try and work out what the system is. And um, in this boundary, all the tins go up here on the right hand side. And she'd put them all over the place. So I said, So the thing is just look, and if you had stopped for a second, you would have seen that you could have just popped the tins there and it would have saved a lot of hassle for me because now I've had to rummage through everything to try and find stuff. She went, Oh, yeah, okay. And I thought it's really useful because I think those, if it's not done in a confrontational way and you're just saying, hey, here's a top tip, um, then it really can often land really well and it's something that she can use in all sorts of other circumstances. I've talked before about how life is full of rules and we can if we know they're there, we can choose to ignore them. You don't have to always follow the rules. In fact, some of them are really stupid and teenagers hate those, but it's worth understanding that they exist. She'd be fine in my food cupboards, as well. No, I'm I'm quite anal. I have a whole like my my flower has to be stacked and so I want self-raising here. You know, if somebody puts the wrong flower in the wrong place, and it's not it's not constant, it's just that I just get a bit.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

I'm reorganizing mine, otherwise uh I'm at the you know, I I I can go where you open the cupboard and things fall out kind of systems.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Oh, that's where that is. Ow. No, I get overwhelmed if there's too much stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

So um, I wondered, I've been listening to a few podcasts. Have you got any that particularly have caught your Yeah?

SPEAKER_03 9:30

I love listening to podcasts and I kind of I don't know, I think it's a bit like breakfast, isn't it? I do like I eat the same breakfast for ages and then I get bored and change. So my podcast is a bit like that for me. Um so what am I listening to at the moment? I go in phases of her because she I find her too much sometimes, but I think Mel Robbins is brilliant. I think she's absolutely brilliant. Um, and she's she's quite sort of in your face, I guess. So sometimes I'm like, oh, I need a gentler approach. Um, but she's super inspirational and she comes with um really concrete good ideas and she's very real and down to earth, which is fantastic. And she has older kids, she talks about them. It's it's mainly for you know about us as as as adults, but she talks a lot about her kids, and they're a little bit older, but they're still within the teenage bracket. And actually, I got an idea from her once of you know, asking your kids for feedback, um which was really interesting, and I have done that, which was very interesting. Um, who else I listen to? So I'm doing some creative stuff at the moment. So I listened to one about what's it called, the unpublished podcast, which is amazing about um and it applies to all of us because we are all creative, um, but in our in our culture, we sort of divide it into people who are good at it and not good at it. And from a very early age, we we label or we I can't do art, which is in my opinion, absolute beep. Um so you know, embracing the idea of of being creative is is super super important for us as human beings. And then she's very they're very much on that, you know. She's a writer, but it's very well they're both writers very much just do it. Yes, just get out and do it. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

No, and I think that stops for us a lot doing all sorts of like sports and things where you think, oh, I'm not very good at that. And actually, if you think I'm going to because I've I've started uh well I signed up, I haven't started signed up to learn paddle because my tennis is awful, yeah. And I've got to the age where I know it's never going to be particularly good and it's too embarrassing to be really bad. Um, but I know that I probably get some joy out of playing a sport like that, and so I'm having a go. Amazing. Yeah, they keep cancelling it, but it's okay, I'll get there. Oh, I've heard a lot about paddle and how much fun it is. I expect to lots of people who love it. Um, my podcast, there's one that I love. I'm kind of I my I come from a business background, what my journalism, so I love dipping into what's going on in the world of the people who are sort of driven into business. And so there's one which is by the BBC called Good Bad Billionaire, which I've sent to teens. And it's so interesting because it's how the billionaires became billionaires. And are they good or bad people? For example, Rihanna, proper, proper Ragsta Richard story. Uh, Denise Coates, who was a woman in the UK who made about $280 million in the year to March 2023 from betting income. Um, so you'd think, wow, that's a really nasty industry and it's making money off the backs of people who are addicted to betting. But she's kept her business onshore in the UK and she pays tax on every single thing she gets, which is rare for billionaires. So, you know, you kind of look at it and go, okay, so how did they get there? And and there's one, I've forgotten his name, Vini, I think it is, who set up, you know, when you go through airports and you get to the supermarket bit, like the shopping mall where it's all glitzy and it's lots of, it's basically a shopping mall. Um, he created that with another guy, and he's not strictly a billionaire, he died recently because he gave away literally everything he ever made. Isn't that incredible? Yes. So that is incredible. Very interesting, lots of interesting people on it. Yeah. Um, another one, Everything is Fine, podcast for women over 40, just a couple of really great, intelligent, entertaining American women, one of whom has a 13-year-old. So she's in the trenches. So that's very fun and interesting to listen to. And I always find that they're spot on when they're talking about things. So top tips there. We'll put those links in the podcast. Interesting. Thanks.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Yeah, that's good. Uh books, any books? Uh books. Um I finished. Yeah, no, I can't come with any book recommendations at the moment. But I did watch, which is book related, um, I binged watched the Hunger Games with my. Did you? Yeah, because my daughter was desperate to see the new one, and I hadn't seen any of them because I'd always thought, oh, I want to really want to read them, and I never got around to reading them.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

We all do that, don't we? I'll read it.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

So I I we binge watched the the films, um, and they I just thought they were brilliant. Like Interesting. Yeah, I I really enjoyed the first one. And then we went to see the new one in the cinema. I was like, that was fun, which was really dark, um, but good. Yeah. So a book but not book.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

And I haven't watched, no, I haven't watched those at all. Um I've I've read a book, I haven't finished it yet. It's called Do Hard Things, a Teenage Rebellion Against Low Expectations.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

And I love it. It's quite Christian. So if you're not Christian, you might want to flick through the pages mentioning bits in in the scriptures. But it's written by two teens, Alex and Brett Harris, and I think they're on to something. He um they talk about how um they started out posting a series of articles, and the first was called The Myth of Adolescence. And what they do is they call into question the modern notion of the teen years as a time to goof off. Um, and when they posted their first kind of piece, they said they had an overwhelming response from other teenagers saying, Yes, yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Everyone I know at school is shackled by low expectations. And I thought this was a really interesting concept because they talk about various people, like this girl who was 11 who started nursing her brother, who then ended up nursing other people in the community, and she had set up the Red Cross eventually. And they're talking about people who started out in their teens doing things, really interesting things, and eventually went on to do great things. And their argument is that they feel that teen years are being sold to us as a time when you can party and have fun, and then the adulthood starts. And it's it's really interesting because I was thinking about that the other day and thinking if we make adulthood look like the time when you do all the really responsible things and you let the kids have fun, then the teens aren't going to want to grow up, are they? Because they're going to think, well, actually, I don't want to do that. That looks awful. Whereas if you sort of slowly emancipate them and say, you know what, you so you're now able to do this, it's your job now. Um, then they they kind of get used to the fact that they're responsible and that they can do the stuff. And that sounds interesting. What's the book called again? It is called Do Hard Things. Do hard things. A teenage rebellion against low expectations. I I really I was underlining lots and lots of things. I I thought it's fascinating. And I think we should do a podcast on that. Um, one other thing that's a really cool app that's really useful for us parents. I don't know what's happened with you, but with me, my older daughter said to me she hadn't booked her dental appointment. And I've handed those things to her. I've said, You talk to the doctors now, you book your dental appointments. If you want me there, I'll come. But you're responsible and it's really important. And I said to her, Why hadn't you booked your dental appointment? She said, Oh, because you're in you've got the calendar. I don't know what, like, when are we doing these things? And I thought, she's so right. So I was at the boot camp that you told me about, that I now go to, and there's a lovely lady who runs it, who I so I ask around all these great, great opportunity when you meet other people, just say, Hey, has anyone got a solution to this? And she told me about Time Tree. Time Tree, Time Tree, which is an app which I've now downloaded and I've sent a link to everybody in the family, and we're now putting our family things on it. And she puts on it, you know, when her partner's coming to stay or when she's go like when she's got a dental appointment.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

And now we can all see. I've tried other ones in the past, but they, you know, for various reasons they haven't worked. Time tree, I'm gonna it's it's a revelation.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah. Um, and you mentioned Hunger Games. I've been watching an amazing thing on Netflix that the family are gripped by. It's called Frontline, and it's about the World War II. And what they've done is they've they they're covering the World War II, but they've they've coloured all of the images, all the film, and they've got film all sorts of things, and you feel like you're watching the news.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

It's I I can't tell you how incredibly gripping it is, and what's in addition to that, so lots of the battles, lots of the bits where the tanks are rolling into places, they they're all on film. It's incredible. But what's even more extraordinary is what they're doing, is they're taking a voice from, say, a Japanese person who was a Japanese fighter, who would give you their viewpoint.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

This was how we saw it. This that the Germans would say, this is how we saw uh, you know, the stu the the Battle of Stalingrad. That's what was happening at the time. And and or people when the the tanks rolled into Poland, what were they thinking? And it's honestly it's gripping. We've nearly watched all of them. It's just great. So I would highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

I'm gonna try that one.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

I highly recommend it. Anyway, let's talk about uh great topic you mentioned. Going back to school. Going back to school.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Going back to school, yeah, that's a good one, isn't it? Um we're all in that right now, we've gone back. I think it's um I think it's different for us as parents and and as parents, like for the kids. Like like probably most kids, I'd say 90 something percent don't want to go back to school. Yeah. And that's completely normal, isn't it? So how do we help them with that? You know, give them the space to have a good old moan and you know, oh, I don't want to go to school. You know, of course you want to be on holiday forever. That's quite normal, isn't it? Um and give them the kind of invite them to find something interesting and fun so that that that momentum starts building as well. Um it's a it's a tricky balance sometimes, isn't it? And it depends on your kids summer. Some are much happier to go back. And I think it depends on how they how they do in school and how they find school, because it's if it's challenging for them, of course it's not much fun to go back, is it? No. But if they're really good in school and it's you know it it ticks more boxes for them, then it's less challenging to go back. So so managing that, managing them, trying to find so I um one of my kids was like, Oh, I don't want to go out to school, I don't want to go to school. Um, nothing. So there's so I okay, there's nothing you want to do in school. No, not in a sarcastic way, but there's you can't can you think of there must so there's absolutely nothing that's fun in school, like 100% nothing. No, that's right, correct, nothing. Okay, break time, yeah, lunchtime, yeah. Your friends. And there was a honestly like a nanosecond of a glimmer which I grabbed. I went, oh, so your friends, yeah, yeah, yeah. So right now, just focus on your friends, then that will get you through the morning. Just focus on that. And then and then we took it a step further and said maybe you can feel a bit grateful for your friends, not in a kind of cheesy puke in a bucket kind of way, but in a you know, it's it's actually really lovely you have these friends, they're really lovely. Can you can you find a little glimmer of of gratitude for that that you have them? And and and they could, um, and and I think I think I like to tell myself it it helped through the first day. Um, probably just giving me a lip service, but I I don't think so. Yeah. Um, but it's fine, finding just the tiny things, and then they they have momentum, and then suddenly they're fine and they're back and it's all good again.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yes, and I I think it's really, really important that we encourage them to find positive things um about school. I I've got a link that I'm going to put in to the notes, um, and it's a a chart about how to cope with emotional refusal because they there there is this sort of there are some kids where they go in and they're told, well, just get them into school and then they'll be fine. And they're not. And so, yes, so if you're wondering whether your child's that one or different, then because my kids one of one of them, when she was going through a really tough patch in school, I'd say to her, you know, you don't have to go into school. I'd like you to go into school. And she said, No, I'm gonna go in because she knew that it would just build up if she didn't actually go in and face whatever she was fearful of. But that was her, and not all kids like her. And it's about coping mechanisms, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Kids respond very differently. So some you can give a really great pep talk, but you've got this too, yeah, and you've got this, you go, and they go, Oh, oh, yeah, actually, that's great. For some, if you give that pep talk, they're like get stuffed. That sounds hideous and makes it even worse. So you have to pick your pick your conversation out.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

And I think communicating with the school, if there are issues, it's always worth it. Even when they're older, I think it's worth it. It's really interesting because I saw some PISA scores, which I mentioned. I mention all these things on social media. Whenever I see stuff, I just put it up on the stories. So my Instagram is full of little tidbits I find uh here and there. And PISA scores are they these are scores that are taken by the OECD countries, they measure 15-year-olds' ability to use their reading, mathematics, and science knowledge and skills to meet real life challenges. It's very interesting because the latest scores, bit of a bit of a shit show, really. And what's interesting is the Asian countries seem to be powering away. And France, for example, has plummeted in terms of maths, which has shocked the government. And actually Macron said, right, we need to do something about this. And I what what really I thought was really interesting was that in Japan, I think it was Japan, where what they did was they scheduled after COVID, because we know that this has had a terrible, terrible impact on all of us. And after COVID, they scheduled extra time around the school curriculum to make up for the time lost. So what they did was they shortened the holidays a bit, they squeezed either end on holidays, and they they changed the school day to try and make sure that the things that were very important were covered. And I just think it's really interesting because I think one of the big problems we've got now across a lot of Western countries is um that we don't have strong school attendance. We've got massive problems with it. And there are all sorts of reasons for that. One of them is people just going, well, what's the point? You know, what what are they teaching them? Is it relevant? There's that, and that's a problem governments are going to have to face, whether they like it or not. And um I think the mental health is obviously a massive problem now, and I don't think there's enough there aren't enough resources in the schools.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

I think resources in general, uh, I mean, yeah. I think it's I think it's really interesting to compare countries when we look at statistics. I think it's really important and really interesting, and I think it's so nuanced that I mean to compare our culture to to Japan is is is so uh has so many different it has so many difference culturally, socially, economically, um, that you know, the the idea of of in England putting, you know, shortening the holidays to to put in extra work. I mean, for me, to me, that did doesn't sound like a great solution. Uh if it's worked in Japan, great, but I imagine that's because they have a completely different work ethic. They have a completely different school system. Like financially, the schools are pretty screwed at the moment here, so who's gonna pay for that for starters? Secondly, you know, I would disagree that the kids maybe they need more of a break, and maybe we can change how we spend the time within the school so that they're resting and and and becoming resilient in different ways. Um, yeah, I think it's super interesting to compare countries and it's so important that we have the whole picture, which is also hard to hard to know what the whole picture even is.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yeah, I mean, the reason I'd mention Japan was more that um I I think there are there's a a lot a cultural shift in people saying, Well, what why does it matter if my kids are in school? Why why does it because that's what's happened, that's what's emerged off the back of this. And part part of it is to do with, well, are we teaching the right things?

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's a really good conversation to have. And and I think people shy away from it, go, you know, school refusal is a big problem, like you've talked about quite a lot. It's a big problem. Um, but instead of just trying to, you know, instead of just trying to get the kids back into school, which is super important, of course, we need to also discuss, well, you know, is there a bigger picture here? What's going wrong that they so much don't want to go? And maybe COVID shed a light on, you know, I've heard of parents going, yeah, but you know, it's made us really think, you know, we just presumed that they should go to school all the time and never question it. And now people are questioning it, questioning it, and that's always a good thing. It might feel really uncomfortable while we're questioning because sometimes things get you know, get brought up that we don't like, and systems need changing and structures need changing, but the questioning is always a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, and I I just don't know if the m I don't know the governments are capable of coping with the what we with this massive shift.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

No, and I mean I'm there's a there's a huge problem within the school system and in lots of different ways, and the teachers are always amazing, but the system is is flawed and old-fashioned, in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah, no, nothing you're right. Um third spaces, third places. Have you heard of these? Uh only just from you earlier. I think it's a really interesting thing. Yes, it's I looked them up because I saw someone on Twitter saying, I really miss the third places. And she said, I'm an I'm an introvert, and I don't find it easy to go and meet people. I don't really um enjoy spending too much time with people, but I really need human contact and I need to be in places where there are other human beings. And so she talked about third places and she said, I miss them. They they'd they've been disappearing. And I thought, Oh, really? What are they? So in sociology, the third place refers to social surroundings that are separate from home and work. Those are your first and your second spaces, and we're talking about churches, bars, clubs, community centres, public libraries. We know a lot of these places have closed down, bookstores. And um what's and this is the kind of these are the places that give civil society and an engagement, you know, a sense of sense of place. Yeah. And she was saying she's seen that just they they they're just going. And and what that was a fascinating podcast I was listening to, which the podcast is called Search Engine, and they were talking about um why can't we turn office spaces into accommodation when we've got all this shortage? And you know, uh it's hard, it's difficult, it's a long story, but you can listen to the podcast. But one of the things they said was they said, we used to have 3,000 shopping malls in the US, it's now shrunk to 300. That is is shocking. It's a shocking number, and it's you know, you could say, well, that doesn't really matter, nobody wants to go to shopping malls. That's where I used to go. That was my third place when I was a teenager. I was very lonely, living in this tiny little village, no friends. Oh, um, I think I'll catch a bus and I'll go and hang around the shopping mall.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

And you feel like you're part of something a bit bigger. There's something going on. So maybe now it's more if you have a hobby, an activity, you go and have a third space, don't you? Like if you're in an amateur orchestra or a choir or a sports centre, you go and play tennis or something like that. But actual other ones, if you don't actually have a specific activity, then it's much more vague.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

And then you're then your online. I mean, one lady said, you know, I'm part of the gaming community, that's my third place. So that absolutely can count as that. But a lot of people are away from these social spaces and she's noticing it. And I thought, oh, she's you know, canary in the cage there. That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

That's very interesting, isn't it? Because you do have like going to the library, you have little chats with people, and that just kind of feeds you for the just even going in the in the shopping.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Everyone's busy trying to get out as quickly as they can from the co-op so they don't want, and you know, there are some some uh shops where they've had a one specific till for old people to come and talk to them. I love I love that. What a great idea! I love that, yeah. I'm gonna put my daughter on it. She loves talking to old people. Um, Manners and Society. That's another one that interests me. So, actor Andrew Scott revealed that he paused his performance of Hamlet after an audience member opened their laptop to answer emails. What? How did we get to it? Because you think about it. Okay, I I don't know when the last time was that you went to the theatre. I don't go very often. It's really it's expensive.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

It's expensive, yeah. That was the one of uh my daughter's activities for her GCE book. It was great. So it was expensive.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Well, it's it's expensive. It's also, you know, very intimate. It's a very kind of you're in this environment, you're in engaged environment. It's not like watching the cinema, you being in the cinema. It's actually you're in a special space with all these other people, breathing the same. You know, it's I don't know, it feels very intimate. And for someone to do that, that would annoy me so much.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Actually, people behind us were noisily unwrapping suites. I was really practicing all my uh skills on, and I did turn around and glare at them. They didn't notice the glaring. So annoying. But I mean I've I've played in millions of concerts over the years, and you know, phones ringing or you know people talk sometimes and you just go, Really?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah, and I've had that in this cinema recently where we I went with the whole family, and this couple at the end of the row were just getting noisier and noisier chatting, and it annoyed me so much that eventually I just turned to them and said, Will you shut up? And my daughters were horrified because I'm not a shouter like that mostly. And um and the guy tried to lean across and say something to me, and the man behind stepped in and went, whoa, you know, so there was silence after that. But it's really interesting because the question I'm sort of trying to raise is have we as adults lost our ability to behave in a in a well-mannered way when we're out in society? And what are we telling our teenagers how to behave? Are we teaching this stuff? Because if they're not getting any practice because they're at home and they're not going out and seeing friends and they're not spending time with people, how are they supposed to know?

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah, I mean, um I I guess it's a little I I don't know, but I'm thinking off the top of my head, like if you don't go to concerts, if you don't go to the it's the first time you've been, how do you know what's right and wrong? And I think sometimes we sort of catastrophise it and say that everyone's got dreadful manners or ever nobody knows what to do, isn't this awful the world's gonna end kind of thing? Whereas actually it's just they just need to be told, actually, do you know what? When you're at the theatre, don't do that, don't do that, and make sure you don't, you know, wait, I don't know, in music, make get to the end of the whole piece, don't clap movements kind of thing. But then I always think, well, you know, you can also be a bit anal about star coming.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Well, I just think I mean I it if it's going to interrupt the enjoyment of people, because actually I think with those specific situations, it's the onus is on the theatre company or whatever to make an announcement at the start and say, So by the way, can you put all your devices away? This is you know, we just want to enjoy the performance, and if they don't enforce it, then they're just going to find people don't go back because they just end up thinking, Well, that was rubbish because he stopped in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Yeah, I think it's usually probably because people don't know what the so-called rules are rather than they're trying to be asses, I would think.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah.

unknown 32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Well, but like, why are you answering your emails in the middle? Maybe he should have just left. Maybe he was bored. Maybe he would maybe he didn't enjoy Hamlet. Maybe he thought it was dark. But then just leave.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Yeah, but then you're walking out in the middle, aren't you? Which is also very rude. My husband's done that before.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

That was yeah, I won't even go into it, but it was one of the things.

SPEAKER_03 32:55

People walking out in the middle of a concert is mortifying when you're playing. Yes. It's like, really? Unless, you know, you all almost want them to come back and go, it was because Oh, I'm sorry that's happened. I mean, it was a big orchestra. I wouldn't I didn't take personal responsibility for it.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Ouch. Um, one last thing. Vaping and snus. Because we mentioned that before. It's nice. Okay, they laugh at the English kids, they're like, what are you saying? And I said, it's snus in the gay, they call it snus. And I go, okay, okay, yeah. Yeah, we'll be split. I have been hearing a lot more about it. I don't know what it's like across the world, uh, because we have got listeners all over the place. But um, staying starting with vaping, the grocer magazine, which is the magazine that's for all the people in the kind of grocery field. I subscribe to it because I'm that kind of loser. Um, had a headline that vaping sales more than doubled to 1.7 billion in 2023.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Oh, that's so horrible.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Uh, the Times also had an article written by their senior investigative reporter about how tobacco giants are bankrolling secret pro-vaping campaigns, allegedly. Manufacturers have links to doctors, scientists are actively promoting e-cigarettes. Great. Um, and ironically, here's one for the books. Fruity flavoured vapes. I didn't know this before. They're banned in China's domestic market. Did you know that? No. No, but they're very happy selling them over here. So Elf bars and Lost Marys and the things that are really popular over here, all those candy flavours, not allowed in China. They're just sending them across the water to all of us, right? It's like Silicon Valley people not giving their own kids phones, isn't it? Exactly. And um environmental impact is horrific. This there are single use single-use vapes. 1.3 million are being thrown away each week in the UK. Oh goodness. Each week. That's hideous. And you think about each one of those, it's got chemicals in it, but it's also got a battery. And all the, you know, the like things that are in the battery. Oh god, that's really having an impact, isn't it? Yes. So um I have seen some people saying, Oh, we should have recycling bins for vapes in the school. No, no, how about adulting for a while and just say, no, yeah, let's not have them, guys. Um, but I have spoken I I sort of had the opportunity with a lot of teenagers this uh New Year's and I sort of said to them, So guys, guys, what's good, what's the deal? What's a vaping SNUS? What's going on? And they said, Yeah, SNUS is becoming really big. Yes. I've seen it. Yes, and they the ones I spoke to said, Yeah, no, you know what though, um, their gums bleed, makes you vomit.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

It's really strong. I had a conversation with one of my kids about it, and um, they've tried it, and I have a friend because we've kind of found a couple, and I went, Oh, you no, you're not doing that, you um I didn't quite word it like that. Um, but um that doesn't feel very nice. It's really they're really strong. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Not very nice. Yes. Um, and I think one of the problems is that the professional footballers in the UK uh are using it a lot. There's been an investigation launched a few months ago, I forget exactly when, where they said it's gone, it's all the way down the leagues, all the way down to the the the young kids. To get the nicotine. They're using yeah, and you can and you know, yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

So they've started looking into what are we should we be doing something about this? Ah, I don't think it's a good thing. When I was talking to one of my daughters about uh nicotine, she didn't st sh even though I've shown her the Netflix documentary called Big Vape, even though I've talked regularly with her about vaping, she didn't know nicotine has problems connected with it. Oh, actually, systemic problems with nicotine. She thought nicotine's not a problem.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So when I discussed it again with her and she said, What do you what do you mean? And I showed her the article, she went, Oh, okay. Okay, that's interesting. Ah, so we really, really have to be very clear in the message about what it because the snus is is nicotine. Yes. So it's not it's not probably so they all go, oh, well it's not smoking. So yes, it's way better than smoking for you. It's way you know, we're not we're nowhere near some of the toxic things that smoking does, but yeah, mine were the other way around, I think.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

They were wondering why cigarettes were so much worse, and then we had the conversation about all the tar and awful stuff. But the nicotine they were aware was a bad idea.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah, and the problem is that the tobacco industry, I've I've read a book on this, um, way back when, 70s, all got together and they went, Oh, we've got a bit of a problem because we really are starting to get enough scientific evidence to say this is awful. Um, but they what they did was they started paying scientists to do research that would then confuse it by saying, Oh yeah, but these people used cigarettes and they didn't get anything. Yes. And then they've got people people get just they're like, I don't I don't know who to trust. They muddy the messages. They muddy the message, and then I've seen some articles in scientific journals where it was completely like there's nothing wrong with vaping, and I just read it and thought, okay, this person whoever vape is would be very, very well. Yes. So we need to look out for these things and point them out and go, yeah, that's not really that true. Anyway, if you're listening and you like hearing us chat, every now and then, I'm not going to do this all the time, but if you like hearing a bit of a news roundup about what's been going on and what's uh been affecting parenting, um, just ping us a note just saying, yeah, that was good, or no, I hated it. Wish you'd just get to a topic, one topic. We just want to know that. I'd love to know.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

On a lighter note, my uh younger boy, I think I've mentioned this before, is uh deciding he's gonna make a rival podcast. When? Just when? Well that's what I've said. I've said, yeah, come on, bring it on. Yes. Uh interviewing teenagers. And I think the idea at the moment is to kind of go back and listen to because he doesn't listen to it. Uh listen to it and go, right. You're here, your mum said this. Yes, what do you think? What actually happened? Um it could be quite fun. Um and I've again said I've sent him a link going, This is how you make a podcast, because I've got sent an article. Come on, get on with it. And I'm looking forward to the feedback. Bring it on. We'll we'll we'll we'll use snippets in our, you know, if you like. He thinks he's gonna make loads of money from it. And I've gone, yeah, it doesn't quite work like that. How's the money rolling in for you, Susie? I am absolutely drowning in it.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah, filthy lucer over here too. Anyway, so good. Well, well, it you can leave the review on a podcast app. You can contact us via our website, www.teenagersontangled.com, teenagersontangled at gmail.com. Um Susie, how can they contact you?

SPEAKER_03 39:46

They can find me on my website where you can find links to all my social media platforms, and that is www.amindful hyphenlife.co.uk.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

And you're going to be doing lots more stuff on LinkedIn because actually you can she's she's a business woman. She's doing she's doing work, she's working in the business world as well. Experimental. Yeah, so there's going to be some interesting stuff on there as well as her Instagram. Um, that's it for now. Hit that follow button. Just right now, before you do anything else, just go and hit the follow button because that's how people find us. Yeah, it doesn't help. And then you won't miss another episode. This really good episode that we're planning.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Well, I've had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Bye bye for now. Bye bye.