Love and Disagreement

Hey, welcome to Self Talk. I'm Dr. Ray Self. This is my 191st episode hard to believe. And I do it because of you, the listeners, those that download and I just pray that I can be a blessing to you. I appreciate you listening to the show today, and today I'm going to talk about something a little bit different. I'm going to talk about love which is a common topic, but, love and disagreement. We can disagree and love, but how do we do that? What's that shape up like? What does that look like and why do so many people struggle with it? This should be a very interesting show. As usual, this show is brought to you by the International College of Ministry. We are enrolling right now at icmcollege.org. Lord's called you, it's time to get equipped. Thanks again for listening to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. God bless you.

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Okay, here we go, episode 191 of Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. Thank you for joining today. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, I thank you for this time together. I thank you for your truth, for your words. I ask you, Father, to give me wisdom today, give me wisdom. Anoint my words today, Father, let me say what you would have me say. And Father, I ask for a special blessing on those listening to this show today. We give you honor, we give you praise, in the name of Jesus, amen, amen. 

So, I want to talk about disagreement and love. Now, the scripture gives us a lot of commandments about love and I, and I know you understand that; you know, God is love. The Bible tells us “for God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son,” and I, and I think you understand that. Jesus gave us some very very tough commandments about love. And when you go into the Book of Matthew and uh, He's, He's teaching part, part of His great Sermon on the Mount. He said in Matthew 5:43, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you,” this is verse 44, “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,” going on down, “so you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?” So even– “Do not even the tax collectors do the same?” So this is unconditional love. 

The problem I think in our society is we think love has to do with like and agreement, and it does not. The love that Jesus is talking about is unconditional and if you look at it, it covers a full gamut. Love your enemies, love your neighbors, love God, love your wife, love your children, love His word, I mean, it's all– it's all over the place. But what I see so much is I see Christians hating what they disagree with. Now, I understand, and technically I can hate sin and hate what it does to people you know, I get that. But unfortunately, most Christians - I'll say many Christians - struggle loving the unlovable. And Jesus was even talking about that. He said, “the tax collectors love their own…” if you look at this again, He says, “if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?” So the audience He was talking to apparently were only loving those who love them; those who they were in agreement with. And he said, well even the tax collectors can do that. Of course, the tax collectors were considered, you know, the scum of Israel. You know, they were considered the worst of the worst. Even them, even, even the tax collectors love their own. 

So this was a commandment to love beyond liking. To love beyond agreement. And that's what I wanted to talk about. How do you love beyond agreement? You know what happens in the natural world, in our natural emotions, when we disagree with someone we tend to stop loving them. We don't like them so we, we cut off the love. Well, that's not what God teaches. Now, let me explain love. The problem that we have in the English language is we think love is something that we feel toward another person, but scripturally that's not what love is. Love is not a feeling scripturally, it is an action. So love is an action, is about our attitude, our words, about kindness and about respect. Um, and about, maybe you can even say politeness or speaking the truth with love. It's about care, it's about concern. Now, Jesus didn't agree with a lot of people but He loved them so much He was willing to die for them. He spoke very hard to the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the priests of that day. He was tough on them. Called them vipers and hypocrites and that their father was the devil. He said some tough stuff to them. But He loved them so much He was willing to die for them. So love, scripturally, is an action word. It's, it's, it's, it's a respectful word. It's a, it's a, it's a word that causes one to serve, to speak kindly, to speak respectfully, to speak the truth without hatred. Jesus didn't hate the people He disagreed with, He loved the people He disagreed with, but we in our natural tendency tend to hate people we disagree with. 

You know, I have a strong disagreement with what we call now the woke culture. I have a strong disagreement with the radical LBGTQ culture, I have a strong disagreement with a, a biological man who wants to play in, in women's sports. I have strong disagreement uh, with that whole agenda as a whole but I don't hate the people who support that. I strongly disagree with them but you see, I'm called to love those that I disagree with and that's a challenge; and we can only do it with the help of the Holy Spirit. But remember, get your definition of love straight. Love is an action word so it's not– I don't feel like I love these radical people who want to um, support abortion in the third trimester, I'm talking about aborting eight, nine month old babies in the womb, killing children in the womb. I hate that stuff. But the people who support it, I'm called to love them and disagree with them and that's a challenge. The challenge we have is we tend to love people that we're in agreement with. We love people that, that are in our church and maybe if we're Baptist we love all the– our Baptist brothers and sisters but we don't like those old Charismatic Pentecostal people. Maybe we're Charismatic Pentecostal, we don't like those old traditional Baptist, Presbyterian folks because we don't agree with them. But you see, that's not what love is. Love is serv– servitude. Love is kindness, love is respect, love is an action, and love will speak the truth; and love cares about people even when we disagree with them. 

I– you know, I like to tell the story because it was such a, a beautiful story. There, for– I had a school in uh, Olive Branch, Mississippi. Now this is– Olive Branch, Mississippi is um, a little town just south of Memphis. I had a school, we called it the School of the Prophets, and it met on Monday nights, and…at 7:00. And the first night I opened up the school - it was a very supernatural night, a lot of people came, it was really– that's a whole nother story - but there was this lady who sat in the back of the class and she had on a leather jacket and blue jeans a very short, cropped, um, masculine-looking haircut. She looked very– she had a scowl on her face and she just looked extremely masculine, extremely tough but obviously she was a lady; but she had a very strong masculine air about her and you know, I think it was– to me it was obvious that she was, you know, maybe was a lesbian. You know, I think it was just obvious. But her name was Francis. So we, we held the class. Now, did I agree with Francis's lifestyle? Absolutely not. Do not. I don't agree with it, it's sin and I think it's leading to really bad things. But I, but I love Francis. I went up to Francis after class and I said, “Hey, Francis,” I mean, I said, “Hey, I'm Dr. Ray,” and she said, “Hey, I'm Francis,” and, and I said, “Well, very glad that you came tonight,” and she said, “Well, well, okay, thank you.” She had a kind of a still scowl on her face. Well, the class was weekly, the next week Francis shows up again, sat in the back with a scowl on her face and after class I went up to Francis and I said, “Francis, you came back! Wow, that's great, thank you. I'm so glad. Did you enjoy the class?” “Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, thank you, thank you.” Didn't say much. 

About the third week, she comes back and I greet her again. I said, “Francis, you came back again! Well thank you for coming tonight, I really appreciate that.” And she looked at me and she goes, “Do you really appreciate me coming to your classes?” And I said, “Yeah, I do, I do, and I thank you. I really hope you keep coming back.” And so Francis kept coming back. And you know, and I– I'm teaching the word, I'm teaching the Bible, I'm, I'm, I'm praying and we're worshiping God, we're doing what we do and over the next few months I began to see a change in Francis. And I didn't, you know, I didn't go, “Oh you, Francis, you're a homosexual,” you know, “you're headed for hell, have you not read Romans chapter 1? Do you not understand what the Ro– the Book of Romans says about homosexuality?” Um, “You know what God, what God thinks of that?” I didn't say that to her, I just– Now listen, I don't, I don't deny the book of Romans at all but I just kept ministering and praying and I, and I loved her. Now, I didn't agree with her and I think she understood I didn't agree with her, but I really was happy that she was coming to my class. And over the next few months I began to see a change in Francis. She shows up one day with, with makeup and her hair began to– she let her hair grow out and then she just began to, it was like she began to transform and I realized the Holy Spirit was doing something with her. Next thing I know, she's showing up to my church. Now we had church and we had class. She's showing up in church and she's kind of quiet but she sits there, she worships God, she's loved, she's accepted. And lo and behold, she begins to evolve; and one Sunday she shows up in this long beautiful dress all made up with earrings and looking like a, a lovely lady. And she just slowly transformed…turns out that she had this amazing ability to preach the word of God and I end up letting her - over, after you know, some training and uh, some time - she ended up preaching at my church! And she completely transformed; but it all started with love and disagreement. I didn't agree with Francis. I knew she was– matter of fact, I ended up knowing um, the woman that she was in partnership with - whatever you want to call it - who she was living with and I knew, you know, what they were doing. I didn't agree with it and I think she knew I didn't agree with it, but she also knew that I cared about her. 

And you see, love and disagreement is critical for us to understand. And, another thing: if you disagree with love, you can actually build respect. So one thing I try to do when I'm in a disagreement with someone is I want to listen carefully and make sure I understand what they're saying. And then I will even sometimes look at the person and go, “So I want to make sure that I understand your point. What you're saying is…” and I might repeat back what I hear them say, okay? Now, the whole time I'm totally disagreeing with it but I want them to understand that I value them, I care about their opinion, I care about what they're saying. Now, in my spirit and my mind I completely disagree with what they're saying but I give them value, I give them, I give them respect, I give them honor, I repeat back what I heard and then I say, “Is it okay if I give you my opinion? I’d just like to tell you what, what I believe.” Now, they're probably going to listen to me now because they knew I listened to them and I gave them honor and respect. Then I can preach the gospel to them, I can give them the truth of Jesus Christ, I can give them the truth of the Holy Spirit, I can give it. But you see, I didn't start off with “Dude, you're wrong. How, how can you think that? What is wrong with you? Don't you know that– don't you know that's demonically inspired? Don't you know you're deceived? Don't you know that you are of the world? You have a worldly attitude, you have a deceived mind, you have a darkened mind, I'm just going to pray for you to get it right,” and I didn't do it that way. I showed them kindness and respect and I didn't, you know, I didn't compromise. I disagreed with them, but I did it in a respectful and kind way. 

Now I am seeing some people in social media who are actually um, doing this now; you know, are actually interacting with people and doing it in a very uh, respectful way and I've also seen people that are yelling and uh, labeling. Matter of fact, listen to me. The moment you start labeling, you've lost the whole deal and that's what a lot of people want to do. Instead of having a conversation and respectfully and lovingly disagree, they want to label one another. “Wow, you're a homophobic.” “Well, you're just this radical, woke, crazy person,” whatever, you know, and they label you. “Oh, you're Republican, you must be a racist.” “Oh, you're a Democrat,” uh, you know, “you, you support all kinds of evil agenda.” You know, instead of showing love and showing respect. Now listen, I don't compromise my values, I know what I believe; but I also know I have a commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ to love. Now, you got to be careful because some churches have gone too far in the love direction and they become inclusive in allowing everything to be okay; it's not okay. Everything is not okay, but love is unconditional and called for. Is everything okay? Now Francis was uh, living a homosexual lifestyle. Was that okay? No, it was not. It was not okay but I showed her respect and I showed her love and I allow the Lord and the truth of His Word and allowed the Holy Spirit to make the change in her. You– I didn't try to argue Francis out of homosexuality. I spoke the truth to her. I showed her love and I showed her respect. And I want to tell you something, she became a very good friend and she did something– I'll never forget, I just want to tell you a really sweet story. If you've ever worked in ministry, you know, nobody typically ever calls you unless they need something. I mean, and I've worked in ministry for years and I've had a lot of phone calls and texts and emails and it's always because somebody needs something, somebody wants something, okay? Somebody has a request or needs an answer, you know, and that's fine, I'm a minister of the gospel and I run a bible college, you know, and that's what I do. 

But I'll never forget one day I was sitting in my living room and I got a call from Francis. And Francis said, “Dr. Ray, how are you?” I said, “I'm doing good, Francis, thank you.” She says, “I don't want anything, I was just checking on you. I want to make sure you're doing well. I had you on my heart and I'm just checking in with you want to make sure everything's okay with you, and tell you I appreciate you.” I'll never forget this phone call. She had a phone call with no agenda, she just wanted to say, “Hey, how are you doing?” Now, if you're a minister, you know what I'm talking about. That actually was a very, very meaningful phone call to me. So, even with uh, in marriage and in relationships, I know um, you know my wife, I love her very dearly, she's super intelligent and she has strong convictions, okay? And we've had some stress because we'll get into um, this, this conflict and instead of speaking the truth with love, we're trying to prove each other wrong. Now I want to say this too, I want you to get this very important part in a conflict: trying to prove the other person wrong is dumb. Nobody wants to be the wrong person. You, you've lost it already. So many people want to say, “I'm going to prove that I'm right, I'm going to prove that you're wrong.” Well, you can do that if you want to but you've destroyed the relationship. Instead, learn how to express your opinion with love and show respect to the other person's opinion, then you can come up with a resolution to it. But if you think proving that you're right and the other person is wrong is going to accomplish anything other than division, then you know, you're deceived. It's not about fighting to win, it's about loving unconditional and speaking the truth with love and letting God do the transformation, okay? 

So it's important to learn how to disagree and love. So I can disagree with you and I can talk to you civilly and respectfully and still love you. Now, I want tell you something, there's some despicable people in government right now and we're called to love them. And I don't agree with them, but we're called to love them. See, love is unconditional. God loves you unconditionally. You– you're like me, we've all done some stuff that we shouldn't be loved for, but he never quit loving us. Nothing can separate us from the love of God, read the book of Romans. God loves us unconditionally, we're called to do the same. And again, I've seen it time and time again, so many Christians fall into that trap, they only love those that they agree with or those that they like and they refuse to love those that they don't agree with or they don't like. That is against the commandments of God. Don't you know God doesn't agree with us, He doesn't like some of the stuff we do but He still loves us so much He gave His Son to die for us? God loves us, no strings attached and we're called to love, no strings attached. Even those people, even those people we completely disagree with. And that's hard, but you can do it with the help of the Holy Spirit. 

Let's pray. Heavenly Father, I thank you for everyone listening today. I pray, I pray Father that um, maybe I put forth a challenge to them, Father. I pray, Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, Father, that we will learn how to love the way you love. Not, not agreeing with evil, not agreeing with sin, Father, but learn your type of love, Father, so we can be your ambassador, not only to love our neighbors and, and, and love you, but love our enemies and even love those that persecute us as your word says, Father. Teach us to love, Father, help us to love, Father, help us to let the world see there's something different about us as ministers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Holy Spirit, have your way and touch everyone listening to this show right now. Touch our hearts, convict us where we need to be convicted, Father. Change us where we need to be changed, Father. And I pray, Father, ‘ll be– there'll be no condemnation and no shame - that's not of you - but Holy Spirit, give us that conviction to change and improve with your help, where we need to improve. In the name of Jesus Christ I pray. Amen and amen. All right folks, that's it. Thank you so much.

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Well, that did it. That completed episode 191, all about love and disagreement. A little bit different type of show, I hope you enjoyed it. Hey, please check out the different resources we have. Um, the website for the show is icmcolleg.org/selftalk, and on the website for the show you can look at any episode, you can subscribe which will really help us, give us a review which will help us. Be sure and share this with with people to increase our downloads and to increase the people that, that we get to, amen. Uh, there’re some links in the show notes. I've got a new book out, it's called The Call. I'm offering an autograph copy of that, 15 buck donation minimum. Uh, there's other resources there on the website, there's free courses, free counseling courses, free theology courses, and free spiritual warfare classes. Uh, right now we're getting ready to start a whole new series called Counseling…uh, Anxiety, Stress, and Depression. That's on…that's actually beginning on Tuesday nights, that– beginning October the 8th and running for 6 weeks, you can actually log into that, uh, at no charge. There's a lot of, a lot of resources, check it out, the show notes. You know, that's all you have to do. I appreciate you very much. If you'd like to donate to help us with this show, that' be really appreciated, and that's icmcollege.org/donate. If you'd like to um, ask me questions or show ideas or comments, email me, drrayself@gmail.com. d r r a y s e l f @ gmail.com. Again, thanks for listening to Self Talk with me, himself, Dr. Ray Self. Bye-bye, thank you.