Breaking Chains

Dr. Ray: Hello, welcome to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self, the show that empowers you with the Holy Spirit and gives you the ability to overcome every scheme of the enemy so you can enter your promised land. Today, you're going to get a new strategy for success in your life. 

 

[Music]

 

Dr. Ray: Hey everyone, I'm Dr. Ray Self. Welcome to Self Talk with me, your host, Dr. Ray. Thank you for being a part of today's show. I got an exciting guest going to be with me. I'm getting ready to introduce him to you in just a moment. The show, as always, is brought to you by and sponsored by the International College of Ministry. We're enrolling right now. If God's called you, the call will never go away. Might as well answer the call. Go to www.icmcollege.org. Get a free evaluation if you want to know what it would take to get your degree or just enroll. We'd love to have you fully accredited. That's enough about that. I'm excited about today's show. This is a very, very special moment. So again, welcome to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. 

 

Dr. Ray: Okay, I got a special guest, Dr. Sandrew Wright, the one and only Dr. Sandrew Wright. He's waving to you now, although this is strictly audio. Let me, let me, before he says hello, let me read a little bit about uh, about him. Got uh, such an amazing…such an amazing guy. Give me just a second. We'll, we'll read about Dr. Wright. First off, he's one of our teachers, our staff teachers, and um, a brilliant, brilliant teacher, counselor, father, pastor, and I'll read the formal bio to you. Dr. Sandrew Wright II is a pastor and Christian counselor with over a decade of experience in pastoral counseling and clergy consultation. He holds a doctorate in ministry and a doctorate in Christian counseling from the International College of Ministry. How about that? He's also an alumni of Florida State University. Dr. Wright has served, uh, pastors and prison and ministry leaders across denominational contexts and currently serves with his wife, Jenna, Dr. Jenna Wright, at the Seven Rivers Church. I believe that's Fernando County, isn't it? Um, his work emphasizes the integrity of scripture, theology, and the pastoral practice in the formation of healthy ministry leaders. 

 

Dr. Wright: Ah

 

Dr. Ray: Welcome, Dr. Wright. What an intro. How you doing, Dr. Wright? 

 

Dr. Wright: Thank you for having me. Doing great. Thank you for having me, Dr. Self.

 

Dr. Ray: I appreciate– He's also a very, very good friend and uh, just uh, been involved. And I, I tell you something about Dr. Wright, man, once he commits to doing something, there is no hold bar. Man, he just, he gets on that rocket pad, the engines fire, he blasts off, and man, there's nothing stopping him. I mean, he, he is, you've heard, we used to call the old expression, he's a real go-getter. I mean, he's beyond that, man. He's, he's, goes and gets, and he's gone, and uh, he's just…anything he does, he jumps in head first and does it with a spirit of excellence. I've always appreciated that. Also appreciate the fact that you've been a teacher for us, uh, at the International College of Ministry, and thank you so much. Speaking of that, we've got a new course coming up beginning March the 3rd, and this podcast will just be coming out before that class comes up, March the 3rd, called Breaking Chains: A Gospel Approach to Addictions. Breaking Chains. And that's going to be a six-week course online. And we can send you the link to that course. Would love to have you. A live course online, uh, Breaking Chains: The Gospel Approach to Addictions. So that's going to be exciting. That begins on March the 3rd. If you want to be a part of that, uh, it's a free course open to the public. Email me and I'll send you the invite - invite and the registration link for the course. There's no cost. Email me at drrayself, d r r a y s e l f @gmail.com. drayself@gmail.com. Um, email’s also in the show notes, and I'll send you the link to that. So, what's going on with these addictions in the church, Dr. Wright? Is this a problem that we should be aware of? Ha ha ha.

 

Dr. Wright: Oh yeah. So, so addiction, it's not something that's present just on the outside, but it's present on the inside of the church as well, too. And… 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, how big a problem is it in the church? I mean, you know, I'm a former pastor and I know, I think I already know the answer to this, but I would explain to our listeners addictions in the church. Is this a big issue in the church? 

 

Dr. Wright: Oh, this is a, this is an, this is a, it's a epidemic, I want to say. So, I tell people this: I, I tell them if you're going through something and only God and only God and the devil know about it, and you can't tell anybody, it's called bondage. And a lot of people, pastors, counselors included, they're in, they're in bondage. So even something like alcohol, for example, a lot of Christians admit to drinking alcohol in social settings; roughly 40 to 60% of Christians say they consume alcohol to some degree. Now, here's the kicker. Even though 87% of Protestant churchgoers believe scripture forbids drunkenness, even though that number is so high, still many of them drink and drink excessively. And less than 25% of churchgoers believe that scripture mandates total alcohol abstinence at all. And just a lot of people, they shrug off as no big deal or “I just drink socially. I just drink to take the edge off.” But I say this time and time again to counselees: the thing you run to relief for will eventually be the thing you need relief from.

 

Dr. Ray: Oh, that's good. A– That's…Wow, that is so good. Say that again.

 

Dr. Wright: The thing that you run to relief for will eventually be the thing you need relief from.

 

Dr. Ray: I like that. And you told me something before the show that kind of surprised me. 

 

Dr. Wright: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: You asked me the question, what do I think is the number one addiction problem in the church today, and you told me it was alcohol.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: Now, I got to admit, I always thought, you know, undercover, the biggest problem in– with addiction in the church today is pornography. And it is a big problem in the church today. But alcohol is even– alcohol addiction. And we're not saying drinking; we're saying alcohol addiction is the biggest addictive problem in today's church.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: So perhaps we should uh, deal with that, huh?

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. And it's not just alcohol, though, Dr. Self. Food is a big thing too. I mean, 75% of Americans report eating in response to emotions. And over 40% of US adults are clinically obese. I'm not talking dealing with like, a little bit of like, weight issues, I'm talking clinically. That's almost half of US adults. And binge eating disorder is actually the most common eating disorder…

 

Dr. Ray: So we have…

 

Dr. Wright:  …and it, it affects millions of adults, and many of them identify as Christian. Millions.

 

Dr. Ray: So we have pornography is a big issue, alcohol is a big issue and overeating addiction, food is a big issue. I understand that. But you know, and you said something also before the show which really uh, struck me. Food addiction is more acceptable, is more acceptable because…

 

Dr. Wright: It's not illegal or it's not, you know, inherently…

 

Dr. Ray: It’s not illegal.

 

Dr. Wright: Yeah, it's… 

 

Dr. Ray: It's not taboo. You know, it's just, you know, it's not a taboo, illegal, you're going to get arrested topic. It's just food. But the consequences of that can be extremely serious. 

 

Dr. Wright: Mhm. And what's interesting with this is…so alcoholism, male and female, they both, they both struggle with it. Food is more of a female thing. Women are, women are more, more likely to report shame-based eating behaviors. But the big one, pornography. 75% of Christian men, 40% of Christian women use pornography to some degree. And this isn't just the normal lay– the average lay people. 67% of pastors report that they've struggled with porn at some point and 18% currently struggle, and that 18% that's under re–, that's under reported due to the shame of the matter.

 

Dr. Ray: So would you say the big three issues in the church today involving addictions would be food, alcohol, and pornography?

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. Now there is another one coming up, but this is more for the younger generation, and it's like technology. I mean…okay, average adults spend 7 to 9 hours per day on screens. They say, um, 70% of ad– of um teens to adults, they check their phone within 10 minutes of waking up. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so…to me, you know, and I've worked in counseling for a long time, you have too. We know that addictions usually has something to do with unresolved pain. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And addiction, an addiction is a medication. Um, it's a cover-up. It's an escape from an inner unresolved pain. And so food can do that. And I struggled with that a lot of my life. You know, I finally got serious about it. I lost 70 pounds three years ago, said I'm not doing this anymore. And I remember I was, I was suffering depression. And you know, yeah, you can be depressed and be in ministry. And so I would medicate with food because food felt good and it would give me a little bit of pleasure in the midst of the depression. But food addiction as a cover up for pain. Uh, we know alcohol numbs feelings, right? Of course, drugs, pornography, same thing. I mean, so it…there's an elephant in the living room in the church, and it's got to be dealt with. 

 

Dr. Wright: Mhm. And yeah, it's, what, what makes it so interesting is this is not– addiction is not, it's not a willpower issue or something. It's, it's beyond that. I mean, this is something that's, that's neurological, physiological. When you're mentioning the addictive, the addictive cycle, it's, it's about relief, not pleasure, if you get what I'm saying, Do– Dr. Self. Like, it's not just behavior we're looking at. It's– there's, there's a pain that you're trying to mask, you're trying to alleviate… It's, it goes, it's deeper than surface level. It's not just a morality thing. It's a– you're– there's, there's, there, there's broken parts of a, of a person. Like there's soul wounds, and we'll get into it into this, this um, course. So, if anybody's really interested, I say this all the time, too. Every man and woman you see, inside every man is a broken little boy, and inside every woman is a, is a wounded little girl. And people will do whatever they can to numb, self-medicate, to get themselves some type of relief.

 

Dr. Ray: That's good. That's, that's so true. That is so true. And you know, I think the mistake that we make sometimes is we, we try to treat the symptom.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And uh, it's like uh, you know, cutting off a weed at, at the surface and not pulling up the root. It's just going to come right back.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, you know, instead of– I remember, you know, as a, church growing up, you know, in, in church, a very traditional church, you know, I, I you're not supposed to drink, you're not supposed to do drugs, you're not supposed to do this, you're not supposed to do that, all these rules. But nobody ever really told me how to get free. They just told me, "Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it." And then, so you end up in a lot of shame. You end up in a lot of condemnation. You end up in a lot of guilt, which makes you want to do it even more.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. Yes. That's– And that's where the church has dropped the ball. Back, back on the topic of pornography, 82% of Christians say no one is helping them quit pornography. And so many believers are struggling, but they're not receiving structured help. And a lot of churches, they even avoid recovery ministries. And the devil loves it because shame thrives in silence. And as pastors, counselors, we have to create safe, structured recovery pathways because the silence, it just perpetuates the suffering. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know, I think a lot of pastors don't know how to deal with it, so they don't deal with it. And the, the need, and I'm uh, passionate about this, the need for training, for training Christian counselors in the church is so critical. And pastors, they're trying to handle all– they're trying to preach, they're trying to teach, they're trying to shepherd. They're trying to do hospital visitations and funerals and weddings and all this sort of stuff. And now they're supposed to deal with all this addiction going on in the church. We need counselors in the church. And so churches have them, but a lot of churches don't. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: It's a big problem. 

 

Dr. Wright: Addiction is something that's layered. And understanding it, it requires theology, understanding theology, but also neurobiology. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Dr. Wright: And this is what I hope this course will do is just help equip counselors, pastors, to understand, to, to look at not just the fruit, not– but the root. I always say it's like a iceberg. People see the top, but they don't see the stuff underneath. And this is the one thing secular counseling can't do. It can't, it can't, it can only give band-aids. It can't get to the core. They can't get to the, to the true heart of the matter, because the heart of the matter is it's the matter of the heart.

 

Dr. Ray: That's so good. And you know when you get– so many times when you get down, you start digging in the root. Sometimes it's like peeling an onion. It takes a while to peel this stuff off, but you're going to find shame and guilt and condemnation. And I'm not trying to be too critical of secular counselors. They do some good things. However, they don't have an answer, a real answer for shame and guilt and condemnation. They try to explain it away. But we have an answer. As Christians, we know we have a Savior who took our shame, took our guilt, took our condemnation upon Himself at the cross. And through Christ, we can literally get rid of shame, guilt, and condemnation. And that's, that's why the gospel approach to addictions, what you're going to be talking about in this course, is so powerful. It's the solution. It’s the real solution.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. And it's, it's we're going to go deeper into things like…because when I want, I want to be clear when I…the people listening. When people have built, built tolerance to like, these addictive behaviors, it's not moral failure. A lot of it is neuro adaptation. You understand? Your brain chemistry has changed. And this is why it's so important. This is why the theology aspect is so important, because the book of Romans, it says, "Don't be conformed to this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind." And your mind, your brain is literally hijacked to the point to where it thinks it needs this, whatever this substance is, whatever this coping mechanism is, the body thinks it needs it just as much as it needs like, water. It thinks it cannot go on without it. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. And it's, you know, and we'll talk about this, but I don't– a lot of people don't understand- but addictions progress. If they're not treated correctly, addictions almost always tend to progress. It's like cancer. If you don't treat cancer, it grows. If you don't treat an addiction, it progresses and progresses and compresses, and progresses even to the point of death.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. I say it's like a check engine light. Like a lot of times people, they'll have a, a life controlling issue and it's like your car, you know, a check engine light pops on. That don't turn itself off. You have to take it into the mechanic. You know, you have to go and see a specialist and get it taken care of. But a lot of times we think, oh, if I just ignore it or suppress it, you know, I'll, it'll, it'll work itself out. I say all the time that, um, if you don't let it just live inside you, because if it lives inside of you, it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll die in you. And the devil loves to kill. Shame is one of his ultimate weapons because shame actually makes addiction worse. I mean, statistics: 40 to 60% of people treated for addiction relapse at some point. That is just part of the recovery process. It's not linear. But the thing is when you, when you relapse, you think it's failure, you know, because stress and shame is still active and it's still, it's still activating those craving pathways. And this is where the church comes in. But sadly, the church is the only place, and I hate to say it, Dr. Self, where people will shoot their own wounded. I mean, you think of Jesus and the Pharisees- His harshest rebukes re– was to church people, quote unquote. And shame, it just amplifies the craving. And as counselors, we have to distinguish between spiritual conviction and destructive shame that deepens the cycle because there's a fine line between them both.

 

Dr. Ray: Well, you made a good point because uh, shame creates pain. So, I've often said part of the cycle is a guy…a pastor begins to drink. Okay, he knows he's not supposed to drink, and he shouldn't be drinking, or he's, he's got a drinking problem, and all of a sudden that creates shame. The shame creates pain, which makes him want to drink some more to cover up the pain. So, like you said, shame feeds the pain, which feeds the addiction. And the more you do the addiction, the more shame you have, the more pain you have, the more you want to do the addiction. That's the cycle. You, you said something else a minute ago. I, I maybe want you to explain that to people. You mentioned the term life-controlling issue. So what, what, what do you mean, a life-controlling issue? Because I think that's critical.

 

Dr. Wright: So yeah, a life-controlling issue, and this thing, it doesn't even have to be anything we named. It doesn't have to be anything big like pornography or alcoholism, to be honest. Even being like, in the ministry or like workaholism is something that's a life-controlling issue. I mean, over 50% of Americans, they regularly work over 50 hours a week. And here's the thing: when you're a workaholic or whatever you have, whatever is controlling your life, you're spending less time in prayer, Bible study, in relational community. It's, it's literally, it's, it's a, it's literally as if that issue is your God, if you get what I'm saying. It's, it's, I don't even know how, I don't even know how to describe it better than just it…it's basically it's the thing driving the car.

 

Yeah. It– Yeah. Right. So, whatever the addiction is, it starts to control your life. You're not controlling this– You're not, you have no control of the substance. The substance is controlling you, and it's beginning to affect your life. It could be overeating. It can be shopping. It could be a sexual addiction, a pornography addiction, a drug addiction. It begins to affect your life. is controlling your life, and um you– a lot of people, you know, it progresses and next thing you know they have a huge problem and either they're in denial, or they don't know how to get help, or the church is not dealing with it and uh…You know a church is a great place not to deal with issues, and I'm, I love the church, but you know you know what happens when you go to church? “Hey, how you doing, Brother Sandrew?” “Oh, I'm fine. Blessed.” “How you doing, brother?” “I'm fine.” “What's going on?” “Oh man, Lord has been so good to me.” You know, church needs to be a place we can get real. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: “I have a problem. I need help. Can you help me?” 

 

Dr. Wright: And then that's where the, the church…because I haven't mentioned this, but there's… addiction, there's…attachment has a part to play in addiction. What I mean is the same reward circuits involved in addictive behaviors also underpin attachment and bonding systems. What I mean is childhood attachment disruptions increase vulnerability to addictive patterns later in life. What I mean is addiction often fills a relational void. You got to think: a lot of people, when they do drugs, what? It's with other people. You know what I'm saying? Or it's it's it's rarely alone, or I've got my drinking buddies. You get what I'm saying? And this is what I want to talk about in the course too, is that if we're to deal with these things, we have to address attachment wounds, not just behaviors.

 

Dr. Ray: So, so you're saying there's a, a connection between addictions and relationships. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. Okay. 

 

Dr. Wright: And a lot of relationships in the church, sadly, to your point, Dr. Self, are just superficial. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Wright: Or just surface level.

 

Dr. Ray: Right. Well, you don't feel safe to go into a church and go, "Hey, I'm not doing so well. I need help." When you go to church, you know, you're, you're in church. You're supposed to be worshiping God and, and everything's fine. Here I am. I'm in church. I'm good. But no, you come in the church; a lot of people come in the church, they're not doing well.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: But it's not a…somewhere…We need to be able to create a safe environment where people can say, "Hey, I'm struggling. I need help."

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. And I always say, you have to be real to heal, that you’re only as sick as your secrets.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I - especially if you're a leader or church, I mean, that's a tough one. I mean, it, it's tough for a pastor to admit he needs help.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And I would encourage this as a former pastor. It's critical that you have relationships outside your immediate circle. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You need some accountability outside your immediate circle who are confidential that you can talk to. And actually, I do that with a number of pastors. I'm kind of their confidential guy. They call me, I'm outside of their circle of friends and we talk some serious down to earth stuff and we need that as pastors and church leaders. You can't get up in front of your pulpit and go, "Hey, I just want you to know I'm really uh, I'm drinking too much and I've been watching pornography." You can't do that as a pastor, but you need to get help.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. And I was actually talking to another pastor about this, and you, you'll love this, Dr. Self. So, so with my counseling, I do a lot, I do a lot of counseling from multiple denominations. I'm talking Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, Re– Reformed, Lutheran, you name it. And…here's the thing that, here's the things that I see. A lot of the pastors, they struggle with these issues like you're saying, but they say, "I can't tell anybody because I feel like I'm, um, they have me on this pedestal,” or “I can't be,” you know, “human or they deify me." But here's what I told a pastor the other day. I said, "You might need to rethink the term leadership team." And he said, "What do you mean?" I said, “Okay, leadership team is not just people who you work with or work for, but your leadership team should also be people who work on you.” If you follow what I'm saying, you have to have somebody that, okay…Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, what they all have coaches. They all have somebody who can, who can help them. And a lot of times, sadly, as leaders, we don't want to submit to anybody. We think we've got it figured out. We just have to gut it out. We just have to…And the devil loves it because, I heard a guy say the other day, and you'll think this is interesting, too. Um, there's no greater idol than the will of man or like self-will. Or, because when you think you have it all under control, you're pushing the Holy Spirit out the way. When you're saying, "I've got this. I,” you know, “I don't need your," you're basically being, for lack of better term, Dr. Self, a functional atheist. You know what I'm saying? You believe in God, but you're thinking you can do it all by yourself. And that is not…we're not meant to do it alone. We, we can do nothing of ourself.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. We cannot. We cannot, we, we cannot. So…but there's hope. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: And now listen, addictions are serious. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: They're life-controlling. They affect your family. They affect your church. And if, if not treated, they can kill you. But there's hope. And I know…

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: …a lot of people don't want to admit it. But it, I'll tell you this as a guy: it takes guts to admit you have a problem. My dad was one of the toughest men I ever knew in my life. He was a World War II combat veteran. Four years of combat, tough as nails. And he would say- he said this to me one time. I never forgot that. He said, "Son, it takes a man to admit when he's wrong." 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You see, a lot of men don't have enough guts to say, "You know what? I'm wrong. I got an addiction, and I need help." And it, it takes courage. But I'm challenging the listeners. If you're a guy or whoever you are, lady, whoever you are, have enough courage to admit when you need help.

 

Dr. Wright: So now, here's the thing too, and you're, what you're mentioning is something called neuroplasticity. So in the natural, the, the brain, brain imaging shows that recovery is possible. That, with months of abstinence, emotional regulation, areas they can improve, that neuro– that new neural pathways are– can be developed with consistent practice. And I always say this: I love how science will eventually catch up with the Bible. What I'm saying is this is scriptural. The Bible says that don't be conformed to this world; be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That…it's, it's what's called spiritual formation. Change in brain structures related to addiction is reversible. But it takes structured practice and support. And this is where spiritual disciplines come in. Here's the problem, though. When you're involved in life-controlling behaviors, probably not doing the spiritual disciplines- you know, time in prayer, Bible study, healthy relational community. And that, that's the missing piece because we don't just want to…okay, we're, this, this is a Christian college, a seminary. We just don't want to give out band-aids. We just don't want to get it under control. We want deliverance. What is deliverance? It's not just getting out of a bad situation, but it's stepping into an even greater one. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Dr. Wright: And that's the hope we have as Christian counselors.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. And see, that's a really good point because what so many people teach is abstinence. “Well, don't– stop drinking. Don't, don't drink. Don't do this. Don't do that.” But you're not free because if you still want to do it, you're just abstaining. You're not free. Freedom means it's gone. I have no more desire to do it. It's completely free. But I'll go back to the original point. It still takes a little courage to come forth and to admit you have a problem. A lot of, a lot of us pastors and leaders and you know, “We're Christian, I, I can't admit that.” That's why you got to find that person like you talked about that you're accountable to that you can trust that is safe that you can admit I have an issue. I need help. And I'm telling you, if you're listening to us, you know, if you have one of these addictions, it is critical you get help. Have enough courage to ask for help. It's not easy, but it takes courage, and you can do it. You know, this is going to be a good course, Dr. Wright.

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. It's, there's, there's just hope and healing. I just want to, whoever's listening, know that addiction, this– It's learned, it's not innate and it can be unlearned but I have to be honest, unlearning is harder than learning. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Yeah, it can– yeah. But it can be. It can be. Well, you know, we're training counselors, but, but even if you say, “I'm not a counselor, but I think I'm struggling in this area,” I think this course will be good for you. I think it'll be really, really helpful for you. I do. Um, and also, Dr. Wright, I mean, people need to know what their resources are. I'll tell you what: if you want help, there's a lot of resources out there. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: So, if, if, if somebody’s listening right now has an alcohol problem or maybe a, a drug problem or maybe an eating problem, what would you tell them their first step is? Where, where should they go? What should they do?

 

Dr. Wright: So, first thing I would tell them to do is, first of all, like you mentioned, be real. I mean, you can't– you have to be, you have to be real to heal. If you try, if you, if you try to cover it, it's not going to be dealt with. But when you reveal it, God will heal it. So, number one, that. Number two, find somebody. Somebody you can connect with. Whether it's somebody at the church or even a local like, Christian counselor in your area, somebody, now, that is that, that is well versed in dealing with what you deal with. But know that…And also just know that you're, you're not alone. That, that you are, that this is more common than you think because the devil would love you, love you to think that you're damaged and you're so broken and nobody's struggling. I'm telling you, there's so many people who struggle with this and, but just know that recovery, it's not only possible, it's profoundly transformational and it will happen but, in order to get healed, it's not a mere choice, but healing is a, is a result from a process and any of these wounds can be healed but you have to go through the entire healing process. I remember a guy; he told me, he said, "I'm healthy not because nothing's wrong with me. I'm healthy because something is wrong with me, but I'm taking steps to get better." And that's the key thing. It’s just owning it and then watching God through His, through His grace, changing your life step by step, bit by bit. There's hope. 

 

Dr. Ray: There's hope. Maybe one step would be this course. Again, it's called Breaking Chains: The Gospel Approach to Addictions. That's going to be, it's presented by International College of Ministry. It's a live online course. Uh, we do it through a community called Big Marker Community, similar to Zoom, but you have to register for it. It's free to the public. If you email me, I'll email you the registration link. Uh, best way to do it is drrayself, d r r a y s e l f @gmail.com. Email and I'll send you the invi– invitation to the course. It'll be uh, Tuesday the 3rd, 8 Eastern, 7 Central. We start at 8 exactly, and we're out by 9. Um, and I think you also– there's notes that come with the course. You can download the notes and have– it's a good resource. Very good resource. Amen. Well, Dr. Wright, I know we could– this, this subject is so huge. We could go for weeks literally on this subject. Uh, but there's hope for addiction. You know, if you're, if you're addicted, first step is you got to admit it. “I have a problem. I have a life-controlling issue. Lord, help me.” You– that's like step one of the twelve steps. Came to realize you were powerless over this addiction. Amen. But we have a God. We have a Savior who can save us, who can help us. First thing is you got to get real. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Any final comments, Dr. Wright?

 

Dr. Wright: Uh, just that if we serve a God, if He can be, if Christ can be raised from the dead…He can, He can, He can raise you from this situation. As Christians, we're, we're all, we're still heal– We're still human. We just deal with problems in a healthier way. I don't want people to think like we're super people or whatever. We're, we're humans. We just…Christians just walk on what other people drown in, if you get what I'm saying. But it's not through any special superpower. It's through the Holy Spirit alone.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen.

 

Dr. Wright: He's, He's, He's the one that does everything.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. He set me free from a lot of stuff. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes. Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And I can tell you countless stories of people who have been set free. So freedom is possible. Don't let this addiction continue to control your life. If you're listening, do not allow this addiction to continue to control your life and affect your family and affect your children and affect your ministry. Get help now. 

 

Dr. Wright: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: Help is available. First help is our Lord. That's the first help. Would you close us in prayer, Dr. Wright?

 

Dr. Wright: Yes, absolutely. So, Heavenly Father, we just thank you for this time. Lord, we pray for anybody listening right now that you would just touch them. That you would just…first of all, give them a deeper revelation of your love. Your word says perfect love casts out all fear. That you would just fill them with your Holy Spirit. That we know that your word says that you're close to the brokenhearted and the contrite in spirit. And Lord, that our latter will be greater than our former. That your word says what the enemy meant for evil, you turn around for the good. That you're with us, that you're with us always, even to the end of the age. That even if our mother and our father forsook us, you will take us up, God. And Lord, we just thank you that you make all things new. That whoever is in Christ are a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, all things are made new. Your word says you restore the years the locust and the cankerworm have eaten. And Lord, we just thank you for the victory. Lord, we thank you that this podcast and this course will touch those who desperately need to hear it, and that you would embolden and equip the people who are taking this course to be true agents of change. And Lord, we just thank you for your grace and your mercy. Lord, we thank you that nothing's too hard for you. That the same power that raised up Jesus from the dead lives within us as well. And we ask all this in Jesus' name. Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. And you've been listening to, um, Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray, and a special guest, Dr. Sandrew Wright. Thank you so much, Dr. Wright. It's been a privilege. Thank you. And again, this is Self Talk with Dr. Ray Self. Thanks for being a part of the show today. Hey, don't forget to download the show, subscribe to the show, go to the website for the show, if you would, please. It does help me out here. Help me get this show out to more people. Go to icmcollege.org/selftalk and subscribe. Give us a review and share the show with people. Share the show. Uh, we need your help. Thank you for doing that. Anyway, God bless you and good night, everyone. Thanks again, Dr. Wright.

 

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