Military Service to Mental Health Advocate

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Hello, and welcome to the Call Her Cat podcast, the show dedicated to honest conversations

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about addiction, recovery, and finding the strength to break the cycle.

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I'm your host, Cat York, and this is where we get real about the messy, complex, and

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often unspoken truth of what it means to heal.

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If you're working to redefine your story, searching for connection, or simply need to

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know you're not alone, you've come to the right place.

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My mission is to hold space for the raw, direct stories of people who have walked this path.

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We dive into the generational trauma, personal battles, and the profound lessons we've learned

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along the way.

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The views expressed here in this podcast are those of the host and the guests.

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This content is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and is not intended to be professional

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advice.

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Please consult a qualified professional for guidance specific to your situation.

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Today we are joined by Kevin Odom, M.A., L.C., M.H.C., L.C.A.S.

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Kevin is a licensed clinical mental health counselor, addiction specialist, and certified

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supervisor in North Carolina.

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He is the owner of One Moment P.L.L.C. and the co-founder of the One Moment podcast.

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Kevin brings a diverse and ethical expertise to behavioral health, which includes work

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at Novant Health's inpatient unit and prior service in the U.S. Army National Guard.

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Kevin, welcome.

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Thank you for being here with me today.

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Thank you for allowing me to be here.

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It's a privilege and an honor.

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Is there anything I missed that you'd like to add in your bio?

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No, I think you've basically covered everything.

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So you have a very diverse background from working in the Army National Guard to being

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a mental health counselor and addiction specialist.

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Was there a specific moment or experience that led you from the Army National Guard

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to now working as a mental health counselor and addiction specialist?

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Yeah, I'd probably say there's a direct connection and a direct link between what I did in the

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military versus what I do now.

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You know, a lot of people, you know, say congrats on your service, man.

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Thank you for serving.

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And, you know, man, I had a blast serving.

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I had a blast.

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I had an absolute amazing time serving.

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But I ended up getting out because of my own struggles with certain things.

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And when I had a change of life, I knew what I wanted to do and where I was going to put

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my career at long term and short term.

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And I proceeded to go that route.

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And so, you know, I don't, you know, it didn't take away from my experience of being in the

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service.

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I think it added to and it gave me a unique experience of being, you know, in the Army

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National Guard.

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If I didn't do the stuff that I was doing, would I still be in the service?

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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I'd probably have served, you know, a couple of tours overseas, probably been stationed

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all over the world just because I love to travel.

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But my experience in makes me who I am today.

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Now what is, I love the name that you chose for your podcast, One Moment.

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What is the, what's the, is there a story behind that?

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Actually there is.

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And I do appreciate that.

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So One Moment podcast, there's currently 86,400 seconds in a 24 hour day.

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Now on the average people stay awake for about 12 to 15 hours a day, roughly, give or take,

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or some even, some science shows even 16 hours.

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So if you look at 16 hours, and you wouldn't, that brings us out to approximately 57,600

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seconds in 16 hours.

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Well, in every single second we have the opportunity to make a decision.

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And if you really think about what one moment is, it's a second, right?

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We have all these moments to make a decision in our lives.

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And if you look at Eminem's hit song, Lose Yourself, you know, when he sings at the very

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beginning, you know, one moment, you know, again, you know, you have, you know, what,

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what decision do you make when you think about suicidal attempts and substance use and relapse

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and, you know, deciding in mental health, not to take your medication when you have

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that moment to make that decision, do you keep going down the path that you're on?

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Or do you make the decision to, you know, relapse, you make the decision to attempt

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to die by suicide, you know, same thing with publishing, right?

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And if it's, you know, publishing, I've had women authors and male authors on our show

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too, in that moment, do you make the decision to write the book and publish?

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Or do you not?

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The same thing with minority issues.

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You know, if you look at Dr. Martin Luther King, he spent every waking moment to fight

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for the rights of others and, you know, whether you were African American, Native American

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or what have you, he fought for the, you know, he stood up and advocated for the rights of

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all, every, every single moment counted.

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Unfortunately, he was assassinated, but every single moment counted.

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Every single moment.

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It doesn't matter what it is.

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We all have approximately the same amount of time and life is really short.

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Think about how short it is, the average lifespan is 70 to 75 years or something of that sort.

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We sleep a third of it away.

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What does that leave us out to be?

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Every moment that we have in life counts and I think our ultimate goal, our ultimate

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legacy is to make every single moment count to the best of my ability.

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I think I was listening to some episodes of your podcast and I love the conversations

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that you bring because the common theme that I, at least I take away from what I was listening

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to was that you try to, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, is bring people hope.

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Is that a correct observation?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's, it's, it's bringing people hope.

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I mean, how many countries still criminalize and penalize suicidal ideations and suicidal

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thoughts and suicidal attempts?

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About a dozen.

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You can't even go to your therapist and say, you know, or a therapist or somebody you trust

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and say, Hey, I'm thinking about dying by suicide today or I'm thinking about harming

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myself.

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It's sad.

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You know, so many people have a, you know, feel like they don't have a voice.

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Over 75% of Americans report that currently in our healthcare system that they do not

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deserve, that they do not get the healthcare that they deserve or need.

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That tells me that we have, you know, our focus in healthcare is not where it needs

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to be.

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And so my hope is, and my goal is, is to challenge the current healthcare system in our country

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and not just in our country, but around the world, you know, provide a, you know, be,

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be a voice for the voiceless, provide a resource where, you know, there is none.

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Um, I mean, even if that's given hope, if you look at what Viktor Frankl said in, uh,

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wrote in one of his books, he was a Holocaust survivor.

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He talks about the importance of maintaining hope, you know, and, and throughout adversity,

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right?

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And that hope is what keeps us alive.

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And he, uh, theorized and, uh, you know, that throughout that Holocaust was that this is

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one of the things, again, he theorized several things, but this is one of them that those

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who maintain their hope were most likely to live till the end of the Holocaust and survive

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those camps versus those who didn't.

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And hope, if you look at it in research is very critical and crucial to survival of the

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human species is very critical and crucial to recovery from whatever you want to add

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to it, whether it's medical surgery, whether it's cancer, whether it's, uh, you know, suicidal,

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you know, concerns, whether it's substance use, what have you.

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Hope is one of the most important things, concepts that we can strive to achieve and

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maintain and hold on to and even adapt it if need be.

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How do you feel, um, hosting your own podcast, stepping into the role of a media creator

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complements the work as you do, that you do as a, as a therapist?

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Well, you know, for me, I think it goes back to, I need to do something different than

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what my career is.

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And when I'm on camera and I'm doing all this stuff, uh, I don't know, I mean, for me, I

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think it just goes back to enjoying the, enjoying the field, uh, enjoying the ability

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to serve others.

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You know, I think, you know, regardless of any major religion that you study, you know,

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Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Protestantism, uh, Taoism or Taoism, however

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you pronounce that, um, even in your, and even when you go back to your Eastern cultures

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and Eastern practices, uh, our main goal in, in life, I think it's to serve one another.

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Right.

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Um, and, and so I look at the podcast that, that through that lens as, as it's one way

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of serving humanity is given hope is given, you know, faith is, it's, it's, it's given

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as being a resource for people, uh, and that's really what it's about.

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And so I feel like, you know, it really compliments the, the, the work I do as a therapist.

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I don't do my job for money.

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I don't, I don't care about the money, but the money, I mean, I get paid decently, uh,

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and I take my raises and I give it back.

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I use my raises for things in the community so that I can continue to do things that I'm

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doing for people.

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And so I think it really compliments because if I, I've seen so many people in so many

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organizations get wrapped up in treating patients as dollars or people as dollars, not, not

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patients, but people as dollars, or they're just another dollar sign, whether it's a tax

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write off insurance concern or what have you.

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And I think for me, it goes back to, this is a person who was struggling for help, you

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know, when I'm on, when I'm, when I'm working in, in, in, in providing therapeutic services

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to people and the same thing with the podcast, I am, uh, serving people.

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I don't do it for money.

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I don't get paid for the podcast.

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Nobody on the podcast gets paid for it.

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Like nobody, we don't get paid for video editing.

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We don't do none of that.

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Like we don't get paid for none of it.

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We do it because we enjoy it.

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I haven't been able to do much editing in the last couple of weeks, but that'll be okay.

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Well, you, um, can we, can, can we talk about something special that you did?

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Um, yeah.

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Um, and, well, why don't you, why don't you tell what you did?

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Are you talking about what happened in February?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So in February the 26th, I had the opportunity to, uh, go under the knife and go into surgery

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and have a kidney snatched out of me or cut out of me and then put into somebody else.

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That was a freaking awesome experience.

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Uh, started that process in November and, uh, it's, it's, you know, again, I think it

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goes back to the idea of serving others, you know, we are, you know, we are social creatures

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and you know, part of being a social creature is, you know, I think our duty is to serve

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one another.

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And so when I was presented with that opportunity to, to do that, uh, I walked that path and

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I'll put one foot in front of the other, followed up with automatical professionals, um, like

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everybody and I proceeded to do what, you know, what they said, um, and the individual

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to this day is three and a half weeks off of dialysis has been an absolute privilege

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and honor being able to be a part of that.

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And he lived, he was on dialysis for six years, average lifespan on dialysis is about seven

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to 10 years.

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Okay.

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And so he, he was at six, six years, a little over six years, about six and a half ish.

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And so today he's been off of dialysis for three and a half weeks.

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This Thursday will be four weeks and the kidney, you know, so three things can happen when

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you do a kidney donation.

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One is the kidney can be outright rejected.

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Even if y'all are matched, perfect match, you can still be rejected.

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Number two is it can take a couple of weeks to a couple of months for them to jumpstart

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it.

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Then the individual will have to go through dialysis for a little bit longer.

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Or the third one was when the kidney could immediately could work as soon as they put

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it in.

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Right.

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And out of all three of those options, my kidney started working once I put it in.

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That's beautiful.

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No, no, I didn't do it for accolades.

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I didn't do it for none of that when I did it because this world needs more love and

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needs more care and it needs more hope and needs more faith in humanity and more trust

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between people.

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The guy was a 47 year old Hispanic guy.

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I'm a Caucasian dude.

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We were 100% match from the beginner.

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I can't even imagine what that moment was like for both of you, you know, to know that

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you changed the course of his life and that now he had literally a second chance at a

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longer life.

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You know, that's beautiful that you that you did that.

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I appreciate it.

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And I think you are right that this world needs more love and kindness and understanding

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across all races, religions, all of it.

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Now, what do you something that affects everybody, no matter their race, their religion, their

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gender is addiction and mental health.

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And what are some common misconceptions that that you see in your work that maybe you'd

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like to see changed?

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Oh, that's a great one.

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Oh, man, there's so many.

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So we have like three hours of recording.

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There's so many.

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One of the ones I get quite a bit is there's no such thing as mental health.

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And I remember being on the phone with a family one time and, you know, dealing with the individual

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who was a schizophrenic, right.

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And the family says something I know such thing wrong is mental health.

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There's no science to even support mental health, this, that, and the third.

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I'm like, OK, so I'm just curious, do you believe in schizophrenia?

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And I can't make this up, listen, I'm not from religion by any means when I say this.

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But that individual said, serious as a heart attack here, they said, no, I don't believe

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in schizophrenia.

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If they have they have the devil inside of them, and if they were to get Jesus Christ

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into their life, they wouldn't have the devil inside of them.

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Well, fortunately and unfortunately, depending upon one's perception, schizophrenia is a

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actual true diagnosis.

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You can look at it in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

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You can also see, you can also pull up research and see changes in the brain, the structural

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changes in the brain.

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You can also see how methamphetamine use long term, how the damage from methamphetamines

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actually mirrors the structural changes in schizophrenia.

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Both of them are very similar as far as the structural changes that happens.

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And so that's a huge misconception, is mental health and substance use do not exist and

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that they need some form of religion in their life.

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I disagree with that idea.

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Mental health and substance use is an actual real issue.

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Another issue I think is, you know, substance use is a brain disease.

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That's a huge myth.

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And I say that because you have for a whole decade or so plus, and I think you would probably

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agree, is we pushed on, we ran on this idea, all treatment programs, regardless of where

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it was located, ran on this idea, well, I say most treatment programs, let me say most,

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ran on this idea that substance use is a brain disease and they taught from the brain

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disease model.

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Well, my question is, is looking at that 15 years later, did we make the problem of addiction

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worse or better?

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And I think most people would actually answer that we've made it, that substance use has

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gotten worse.

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Well, we threw everybody or almost a whole population of substance use under this one

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theory of brain disease model of addiction.

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We completely forgot about and did not, you know, I shouldn't say completely forgot, but

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we did.

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We, you know, theoretically speaking, we forgot about all the other modalities, right?

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Cognitive behavioral therapy, existential therapy, narrative therapy.

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Now you even have a lot of your theorists from, you know, the feminist movement that

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happened in the psychology field in the, you know, sixties and, you know, during all

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of that, the big rights movement, you know, back when we have, I mean, there's so many

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theories out there, right.

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That actually fit too.

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Um, and so that's a huge myth because you can't throw everybody under one umbrella.

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That's like saying, okay, and to treat trauma, we have to have EMDR.

265
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Well, no, you have CPT, you have CBT, you have EMDR, right?

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You can't throw everybody under the same or on the same bus and say, this is the way

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you have to do it.

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Another thing that is a, uh, a huge issue is you'll have people in recovery who work

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in substance use field and their whole, and let's say they got sober through the 12 step

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program.

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Well, their whole deal is to push the 12 step program, push the 12 steps, 12 step, 12 step,

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12 step, 12 step.

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And it's like, dude, what are you doing?

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Right.

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And it's like, and you see a lot of it with people in recovery.

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And so that is a huge problem, especially in, um, especially in the substance use field

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is, you know, these people are trying to push just one theory or one idea.

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Like what worked for you might not work for all these other people.

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You can't throw the next thousand to 10,000 people under the same umbrella and say, Hey,

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this is the only way that works.

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Recovery is an individual thing.

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So how I, how I get and stay sober, it might not work for you.

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You might need harm reduction.

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You might need a 48 hour rapid detox.

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You might need something right.

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Or some people got sober through, gets over through a church and that's okay.

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They have to figure out what, you know, is the therapist's job to help the patient figure

288
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out what works versus what doesn't work.

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Uh, I know, uh, um, there's a treatment program in Hawaii.

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They have actually come in here and integrated Eastern and Western practices, you know, or

291
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Eastern and Western medicine.

292
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And they do a lot of, you know, cultural, ancient cultural practices and their relapse

293
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rates or have, uh, they have reduced the relapse rate significantly in the state of Hawaii.

294
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Medicaid actually pays for the ancient practices now through the, through the, you know, uh,

295
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:17,020
in the state, which is a beautiful thing.

296
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They are the first state to have to come here and say, okay, yeah, we'll pay for, I

297
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don't know.

298
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I'm going to use for an example.

299
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Yeah.

300
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We'll pay for acupuncture.

301
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Right.

302
00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:30,979
We'll pay for this Eastern practice right here or that Eastern practice, like we literally

303
00:22:30,979 --> 00:22:36,020
have changed up the healthcare system in the state of Hawaii.

304
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And so it's another myth that I say, you know, needs to be, you know, is a huge barrier to

305
00:22:41,339 --> 00:22:42,619
providing services.

306
00:22:43,619 --> 00:22:53,660
Um, uh, uh, uh, a lot of folks think that in substance use, the best therapist is somebody

307
00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:54,660
in recovery.

308
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I disagree.

309
00:22:55,660 --> 00:23:01,979
I've actually seen the best therapist I know of was not in recovery, never was in recovery.

310
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And this guy can, I mean, he has touched thousands upon thousands upon thousands of lives throughout

311
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his 30 year career.

312
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And I mean, every, all the patients, most of the patients he meets loves them, you know,

313
00:23:16,579 --> 00:23:17,739
they gave them high ratings.

314
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He's got some of the highest ratings in the field of the substance use field.

315
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:29,579
Um, you know, another myth is, and this is, I think is amongst the, I think amongst the

316
00:23:29,579 --> 00:23:36,739
healthcare population itself, not patients on the, you know, but going back to people

317
00:23:36,739 --> 00:23:41,500
like myself, I've heard so many times that the healthcare system is good, that we just

318
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need to do this.

319
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And, you know, we're not over-regulating and, oh, the system's not broken.

320
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It's just a piece of cake.

321
00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:51,660
Where the, are you at?

322
00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:57,699
Like, when you look in my eyes, research suggests, as I said earlier, that over 75% of Americans

323
00:23:57,699 --> 00:24:02,380
don't agree with our current status of, of healthcare.

324
00:24:02,380 --> 00:24:09,020
Like that's not me saying it, I'm agreeing with 75% of America and we have 350 million

325
00:24:09,020 --> 00:24:16,500
people, roughly, you know, in the U.S. right now, 75% of that 350 million agree that we

326
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:21,500
have some of the worst healthcare in the history of the U.S.

327
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My job is to go with the research and to treat people as they are people and not numbers.

328
00:24:29,219 --> 00:24:34,260
And, and I mean, there's so many myths, there, there, there's so many myths and we can keep

329
00:24:34,260 --> 00:24:35,260
going.

330
00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:38,020
You know, I can tell you so many myths right now.

331
00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:43,979
You know, people think that LGBTQ population, a lot of their issues is based on trauma.

332
00:24:43,979 --> 00:24:46,219
Well, I actually showed it on my show.

333
00:24:46,219 --> 00:24:52,500
I asked a, a young lady who was part of the, actually, I think I asked two people.

334
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:53,939
One of them was transgender.

335
00:24:53,939 --> 00:24:54,939
One of them was a lesbian.

336
00:24:54,939 --> 00:24:58,339
And I said, Hey, do you have any history of trauma?

337
00:24:58,339 --> 00:25:02,219
You raped as a, you know, basically, you know, without asking where you raped as a child,

338
00:25:02,219 --> 00:25:05,060
that was basically the way I asked, do you have any history of trauma?

339
00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:09,099
Some said, no, there wasn't a history of trauma.

340
00:25:09,099 --> 00:25:10,099
So, okay.

341
00:25:10,099 --> 00:25:12,500
So, I mean, that's another myth.

342
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:16,900
There's so many myths out there that we can, I mean, we can keep going down.

343
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:21,859
It's going to, do you have three hours to talk about all of this?

344
00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:28,579
No, I like that you highlighted, you highlighted an interesting point.

345
00:25:28,579 --> 00:25:35,979
And I tend to agree with you that not every counselor or addiction specialist that you

346
00:25:35,979 --> 00:25:39,859
talk to has to be in recovery.

347
00:25:39,859 --> 00:25:45,579
And I, I've, I say that from experience where that has worked against me having someone

348
00:25:45,579 --> 00:25:52,380
in recovery, because I have found that often in my experience that it, it swayed their

349
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:55,979
decision on which way I should go.

350
00:25:55,979 --> 00:26:01,660
And you know, I don't think I agree that you don't need to be in recovery to treat those

351
00:26:01,660 --> 00:26:06,579
who are, are fighting addiction.

352
00:26:06,579 --> 00:26:14,459
And you mentioned that addiction and mental health often go hand in hand.

353
00:26:14,459 --> 00:26:19,660
How do you, what, what piece do you begin to treat first?

354
00:26:19,660 --> 00:26:25,420
Because that's a complicated, you're dealing with two complicated issues or challenges.

355
00:26:25,420 --> 00:26:31,300
Like, how do you even start when you're dealing with someone who is dealing with addiction

356
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,300
and mental health issues?

357
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:35,979
That's a great question.

358
00:26:35,979 --> 00:26:39,900
I think, you know, a lot of people ask that question to this day.

359
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:44,380
I mean, and I think the answer isn't really a simple answer because it's like, hey, which

360
00:26:44,380 --> 00:26:45,660
came first, the chicken or the egg?

361
00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:47,619
Well, you got to have chickens in order to have eggs.

362
00:26:47,619 --> 00:26:49,660
Well, where did the egg come from?

363
00:26:49,660 --> 00:26:51,780
Or where did the chicken come from?

364
00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:55,739
I mean, and you're going, working yourself in circles, right?

365
00:26:55,739 --> 00:27:01,819
Same thing with, you know, tomatoes, tomatoes, potatoes, potatoes, it doesn't really matter.

366
00:27:01,819 --> 00:27:03,900
It's the same thing, right?

367
00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,020
And I think it just depends on the individual.

368
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:11,780
I think it's an individualistic case because I've seen it where I have worked one-on-one

369
00:27:11,780 --> 00:27:17,380
with an individual who they had his diagnoses backwards, where it was a trauma, I mean,

370
00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:22,500
it was a substance use that happened first, and then it was the addiction.

371
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:27,099
Or excuse me, it was a substance use that happened first, and then it was a trauma.

372
00:27:27,099 --> 00:27:32,819
And then I've had, you know, and I found out in my work with that individual that it actually

373
00:27:32,819 --> 00:27:33,819
wasn't that way.

374
00:27:33,819 --> 00:27:36,739
It was a trauma first, then it was a substance use.

375
00:27:36,739 --> 00:27:40,579
And we were treating the substance use, but it wasn't getting better.

376
00:27:40,619 --> 00:27:45,140
You know, the individual was not getting better, the individual was getting worse.

377
00:27:45,140 --> 00:27:52,500
So during the middle of a session, I challenged the idea, you know, pulled up the drug screens

378
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,859
and everything, like, dude, what in the world is going on?

379
00:27:56,859 --> 00:28:03,500
And come to find out it was the trauma of what happened in Nam or Vietnam.

380
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:08,540
You know, people say Nam for short, but Vietnam and Desert Storm, and it was like all of those

381
00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:11,339
things that happened.

382
00:28:11,339 --> 00:28:21,579
And when the individual and I talked about the situation or the situations, it was something

383
00:28:21,579 --> 00:28:25,979
that was clinically miraculous, and I say clinically miraculous because I think that's

384
00:28:25,979 --> 00:28:27,979
the best scripture of it.

385
00:28:27,979 --> 00:28:34,459
The individual's substance use had gotten significantly better once the trauma was discussed,

386
00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:37,979
explored, emphasized, and treatment was provided.

387
00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:47,739
Now, again, as an individualistic case, there's this idea in the field now that, you know,

388
00:28:47,739 --> 00:28:55,660
when people go into treatment, then the treatment should, again, be person-centered and, you

389
00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:58,859
know, it should be integrated.

390
00:28:58,859 --> 00:29:01,579
Trauma-informed care is what they're calling it now.

391
00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:06,699
Regardless if it's substance use or whether it's, you know, treatment for bipolar disorder,

392
00:29:06,699 --> 00:29:10,140
it's still, you know, if there's trauma, it should be trauma-informed care.

393
00:29:10,780 --> 00:29:13,739
So I think, you know, I think it just really depends on the individual.

394
00:29:15,339 --> 00:29:21,020
And there's not a single, you know, there's not a single simple answer.

395
00:29:21,020 --> 00:29:23,420
It's more of an individualistic answer.

396
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:34,380
That's got to be difficult because I imagine when you're dealing with someone who's dealing

397
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:40,140
with trauma from something as complicated and as devastating as Vietnam, that's not

398
00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:43,180
something they're going to easily want to share, right?

399
00:29:44,459 --> 00:29:48,380
And depending how deep that trauma is and if there's other trauma, they might not even

400
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:50,540
be able to distinguish kind of what came first.

401
00:29:50,939 --> 00:30:00,780
So that leaves you in a very challenging situation to really have to take a lot of time, really

402
00:30:00,780 --> 00:30:07,180
get to know the person and their history, to know where to almost really start to treat

403
00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:08,540
and what to really start to treat.

404
00:30:11,579 --> 00:30:17,579
And that's got to be at times quite hard to know even to where to start.

405
00:30:17,579 --> 00:30:18,300
Is that accurate?

406
00:30:20,859 --> 00:30:27,500
Well, yeah, and I think a lot of therapists, they get into this idea, especially some of

407
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:32,939
your newer therapists and because I've seen and I work with a lot of, you know, I mentor

408
00:30:32,939 --> 00:30:38,300
a lot of college students and I do some supervision with some people too.

409
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:46,699
And I think the biggest thing that they, that I think people should remember when you are

410
00:30:46,699 --> 00:30:52,060
a healthcare worker, and this is regardless of, right, healthcare worker itself, you know,

411
00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:59,900
whether you're a nurse, you know, a psychiatric practitioner, nurse practitioner, whether

412
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:04,060
you're a doctor, whether, you know, whatever, whatever your title is in healthcare.

413
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:09,020
So remember that it's the person first, right?

414
00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:10,219
It's the human first.

415
00:31:10,219 --> 00:31:14,380
I need to be able to connect with the individual on a human to human connection, right?

416
00:31:15,020 --> 00:31:18,219
Without that connection, I have no therapeutic relationship, right?

417
00:31:18,219 --> 00:31:19,900
There's no therapy that's being provided.

418
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:25,420
That human to human connection is just like you and I talking right now.

419
00:31:25,420 --> 00:31:26,380
It's just as simple as that.

420
00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:27,979
There's no therapeutic work that's being done.

421
00:31:27,979 --> 00:31:30,619
I'm not giving you therapy and you're not giving me therapy.

422
00:31:30,619 --> 00:31:34,540
You're not telling me, well, I want you to go home and work on the CBT worksheet, right?

423
00:31:35,099 --> 00:31:36,459
You're not telling me that.

424
00:31:36,459 --> 00:31:40,780
The human to human connection, I think is the most important piece of any therapeutic

425
00:31:40,780 --> 00:31:49,979
relationship in, as it relates to healthcare persons, doctor, NP, PA, LPN, RN, even those

426
00:31:49,979 --> 00:31:54,300
who work in the healthcare industry and they work more in the admin positions.

427
00:31:55,420 --> 00:32:00,459
We've gotten, I think for a good part of the healthcare field is we've gotten away

428
00:32:00,459 --> 00:32:01,579
from that ideal.

429
00:32:02,780 --> 00:32:08,939
Once we get, and that's what I keep into my, into the forefront of my brain is my

430
00:32:08,939 --> 00:32:09,739
ultimate goal.

431
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:15,660
Number one goal in any relationship when I meet people is to connect with them one-on-one,

432
00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:16,780
human to human.

433
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:19,180
It doesn't matter.

434
00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:20,859
Like, you know, there's no title involved.

435
00:32:20,859 --> 00:32:23,979
There's no like, you know, I'm, you know, don't, don't call me mister.

436
00:32:23,979 --> 00:32:24,619
Don't call me sir.

437
00:32:24,619 --> 00:32:28,140
Like, you know, I am a person just like you.

438
00:32:28,859 --> 00:32:31,660
I have thoughts and emotions just like you.

439
00:32:31,660 --> 00:32:38,140
Once I can connect on that level, then I can start to build a, build trust.

440
00:32:39,819 --> 00:32:44,060
And I, and if you look at a lot of what happened, like during the COVID era, well, there's a

441
00:32:44,060 --> 00:32:47,660
huge lack of trust in the field, huge lack of trust in the field.

442
00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:53,900
And if you go back to even what happened to Tuskegee syphilis study, right?

443
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:59,420
No wonder there's lack of trust between people in the government, people in healthcare because

444
00:32:59,420 --> 00:33:01,099
of how we treated people.

445
00:33:01,099 --> 00:33:04,859
You know, we gave them syphilis and didn't even provide them with the freaking medications

446
00:33:04,859 --> 00:33:06,060
to cure it or even treat it.

447
00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:07,500
Right.

448
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,420
Like, no wonder there's lack of trust.

449
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:15,099
And my number one goal is to, or number, number two goal after the human connection is to

450
00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:19,819
build that level of trust with that person.

451
00:33:20,859 --> 00:33:24,699
And that's where I think the two pieces that I think healthcare is missing.

452
00:33:24,699 --> 00:33:30,140
See, when I was a patient over there at Methodist hospital in San Antonio, they didn't care

453
00:33:30,140 --> 00:33:33,260
about the, like, yeah, they cared about the insurance, about the individual's insurance,

454
00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:36,140
but they treated me most importantly as a person, as a human being.

455
00:33:36,939 --> 00:33:37,439
Yeah.

456
00:33:38,140 --> 00:33:43,020
They literally said, uh, I got denied on something for financial, whatever the first

457
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,180
time for like financial assistance.

458
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:49,500
And they literally called me up and they said, Hey, you got denied on this, this amount of

459
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:50,939
money, blah, blah, blah.

460
00:33:50,939 --> 00:33:53,420
Uh, do you still want to move forward with the donor, with the donation?

461
00:33:53,420 --> 00:33:54,219
I said, absolutely.

462
00:33:54,219 --> 00:33:55,020
Come on now.

463
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:55,900
They were like, really?

464
00:33:56,540 --> 00:33:57,099
Yeah, really?

465
00:33:57,099 --> 00:33:58,540
Come on, let's, let's, let's do it.

466
00:33:59,260 --> 00:34:02,219
And so they treated me as a person.

467
00:34:02,859 --> 00:34:03,180
Right.

468
00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:03,579
Yeah.

469
00:34:03,579 --> 00:34:08,139
They didn't discriminate against myself against my substance use history from 15 years ago,

470
00:34:08,139 --> 00:34:12,379
or however long ago, 13, 14, 15 years ago, they didn't discriminate based on anything

471
00:34:12,379 --> 00:34:12,620
else.

472
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:14,379
They just treat, they treated me as a person.

473
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:19,739
You know, they asked me, have I ever spent 70, 72 hours incarcerated?

474
00:34:19,739 --> 00:34:20,540
I said, sure.

475
00:34:20,540 --> 00:34:24,780
They were like, when I said like 15, 20 years ago, they were like, when you worried about

476
00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:25,500
that?

477
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:31,260
It was, you know, they, because they looked at what I am doing now, what I am doing today.

478
00:34:31,260 --> 00:34:31,500
Right.

479
00:34:32,219 --> 00:34:35,020
I was, went in on a Thursday, released on a Friday.

480
00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:37,500
I was readmitted on a Saturday morning at 2.30.

481
00:34:38,139 --> 00:34:42,139
And what I did is I took the pain medication with me back to the hospital.

482
00:34:42,139 --> 00:34:44,620
Not once did they say that I was overtaking medication.

483
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:46,620
Not once did they discriminate me.

484
00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:48,699
Not once did they deny me services.

485
00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:53,340
In fact, they readmitted me and said, you're not going to leave here until you, you know,

486
00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:55,500
until your bowels get up and working, right?

487
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:56,379
Basically what they said.

488
00:34:57,260 --> 00:35:02,300
And even the whole process of that, they still treated me as a person.

489
00:35:03,979 --> 00:35:04,219
All right.

490
00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:07,260
They never once said, no, you can't come back.

491
00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:09,340
No, they never discriminated against me.

492
00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:10,540
None of that.

493
00:35:10,540 --> 00:35:13,260
They said, hey, sometimes this happens with people.

494
00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:17,020
It takes a moment for their body to get up to work and their insides.

495
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:20,060
So I, they explained to me, I asked questions.

496
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:22,939
Was not an issue at all.

497
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:24,780
They never once shunned me.

498
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:26,300
They never made me feel shunned.

499
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:27,340
None of that.

500
00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:29,020
Absolutely none of it.

501
00:35:30,060 --> 00:35:33,899
Even when my follow-up, when I went back, I tried to take pictures with a few people.

502
00:35:33,899 --> 00:35:34,699
They didn't.

503
00:35:34,699 --> 00:35:36,219
And they didn't feel comfortable with it.

504
00:35:36,219 --> 00:35:38,219
And they were like, nah, I don't want to go on social media.

505
00:35:38,219 --> 00:35:38,459
All right.

506
00:35:38,459 --> 00:35:39,260
That's cool.

507
00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:41,020
Well, other than that, they still were respectful.

508
00:35:41,020 --> 00:35:47,820
They treated me again as out as a human being first and then a patient second.

509
00:35:48,620 --> 00:35:48,860
Yeah.

510
00:35:49,820 --> 00:35:52,540
And that's what we're missing in the field.

511
00:35:52,540 --> 00:35:54,219
That's a, that's a huge thing.

512
00:35:54,219 --> 00:35:58,540
And I think that once we, once we get back to the human to human connection,

513
00:35:58,540 --> 00:36:03,739
once we establish that first and foremost, you know, the, the disclosure is going to come.

514
00:36:03,739 --> 00:36:05,020
People are going to trust.

515
00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:06,300
Yeah.

516
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:09,340
I did this in Vietnam or yeah, I did this in desert storm.

517
00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:09,580
Yeah.

518
00:36:09,580 --> 00:36:11,179
I did this over there in Iraq.

519
00:36:11,899 --> 00:36:12,139
Yeah.

520
00:36:12,139 --> 00:36:14,540
I did this in Kuwait or yeah.

521
00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:16,540
Hey, this happened to me when I was five years old.

522
00:36:16,540 --> 00:36:17,340
My daddy beat me.

523
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:23,020
And you know, my, my, my, my daddy was raping me as he was quote biblical scriptures out

524
00:36:23,020 --> 00:36:26,300
the Bible, you know, whatever, whatever the situation is.

525
00:36:27,179 --> 00:36:33,419
But if I don't have a human connection, you think, do you think a woman or a guy

526
00:36:33,419 --> 00:36:37,739
is going to tell me as their therapist or even their medical provider that, Hey,

527
00:36:37,739 --> 00:36:41,659
yeah, my dad was raping me and it's quoting biblical scripture at the same time.

528
00:36:44,860 --> 00:36:48,060
No, you gotta have a deep level of trust to share something like that.

529
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:51,500
Yeah, absolutely.

530
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,699
And that's what it, that's where it all starts.

531
00:36:54,699 --> 00:36:57,899
Without that, then there's no, there's no healthcare.

532
00:36:57,899 --> 00:36:58,860
There's no services.

533
00:36:58,860 --> 00:37:01,419
There's nothing, none of nothing can be provided.

534
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:06,699
You, then you're talking about untreated mental health, untreated substance use, untreated.

535
00:37:07,580 --> 00:37:08,139
What have you.

536
00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:16,780
Something that comes up a lot when you're dealing with addiction, whatever the substance may be

537
00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:19,659
is, is relapse.

538
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:24,939
And a lot of people will say, well, that's just part of recovery.

539
00:37:26,379 --> 00:37:30,459
Where do you stand on relapse prevention or even relapse in general?

540
00:37:32,620 --> 00:37:33,739
Oh, that's a great question.

541
00:37:33,739 --> 00:37:35,500
I haven't been asked that question yet ever.

542
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:43,419
I don't think relapse doesn't have to be a part of recovery, but it can be.

543
00:37:44,939 --> 00:37:45,580
It can be.

544
00:37:46,139 --> 00:37:49,659
Um, and I say that because a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of people that come in

545
00:37:50,379 --> 00:37:52,780
and recover and they don't relapse and get it the first time.

546
00:37:52,780 --> 00:37:56,860
But then there's also the other people who, you know, if you look at William James,

547
00:37:56,860 --> 00:38:02,300
William James is a huge spiritual experience guy, very spiritual, very recovery based guy.

548
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:06,699
And he talks about spiritual experiences and how there's two forms, right?

549
00:38:06,699 --> 00:38:08,219
One is the burning bush form.

550
00:38:09,020 --> 00:38:11,260
The other one is educational variety.

551
00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:17,580
And so some people have to relapse a couple of different times in order for them to really

552
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:20,699
process what is going on for them to grasp it.

553
00:38:21,260 --> 00:38:27,260
Um, and I've seen both, I've seen both sides here and for my relapse prevention folks,

554
00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:32,139
you know, way I typically work with people is I take an existential approach and I help

555
00:38:32,139 --> 00:38:37,659
people to understand a very, you know, it's existential, but it's more of a mixed approach

556
00:38:37,659 --> 00:38:42,780
to help people understand on, you know, go back to your relapse and see what you were

557
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:46,780
doing well at and see what you were not doing well at, see what you needed to change and

558
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:54,219
improve that where those areas of improvement of change, not where you were doing well at,

559
00:38:54,219 --> 00:38:56,459
cause we can always improve across the board, right?

560
00:38:56,459 --> 00:39:01,580
But the areas where you needed to improve it, maybe that's where you needed to hang

561
00:39:01,580 --> 00:39:04,219
your hat at, maybe hang your hat in Texas on that one, right?

562
00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:10,300
Uh, and, and go from there where I think the song says, hang, hang my hat in Tennessee.

563
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,500
So maybe you need to hang your hat in Tennessee on that right there, right?

564
00:39:14,699 --> 00:39:20,699
Focusing on that area, maybe improving that area, or at least in one or two of those areas,

565
00:39:21,580 --> 00:39:24,139
you know, cause it, everybody's different.

566
00:39:24,139 --> 00:39:32,300
So I, that's the way I take, you know, the, the, the relapse prevention approach, you

567
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:35,260
know, let's look, let's explore some of these relapses.

568
00:39:35,260 --> 00:39:36,139
What was going on?

569
00:39:38,459 --> 00:39:39,260
What changed?

570
00:39:39,260 --> 00:39:39,979
What happened?

571
00:39:39,979 --> 00:39:41,100
What did you stop doing?

572
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:42,139
What did you not do?

573
00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:44,219
What did you need to do, but didn't?

574
00:39:46,219 --> 00:39:50,459
Cause if you explore that and you ask those simple questions, you know, individually,

575
00:39:50,459 --> 00:39:51,659
I mean, you're going to get the answer.

576
00:39:53,340 --> 00:39:56,860
And that's why I say relapse can be a part of recovery.

577
00:39:56,939 --> 00:40:02,780
It's not a, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's not the idea that it doesn't,

578
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:07,340
you know, that it's not a part of, no, no, it can be a part of recovery.

579
00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:12,300
And I think, you know, with these people that says that recovery is not a part of

580
00:40:14,379 --> 00:40:16,060
relapse is not a part of recovery.

581
00:40:16,060 --> 00:40:19,419
I think they need to probably go back to school, getting them a little bit more education.

582
00:40:19,419 --> 00:40:25,659
That's my challenge to them because maybe they don't know what relapse is maybe, or

583
00:40:25,659 --> 00:40:30,860
maybe their experiences with relapse doesn't align with somebody else's, you know, the,

584
00:40:30,860 --> 00:40:34,540
the issue that I think we have is, oh my God, CBT worked for me.

585
00:40:35,260 --> 00:40:37,179
You need CBT, honey,

586
00:40:40,139 --> 00:40:44,300
God, you know, the 12 step program and be a Wilson works.

587
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:45,419
Oh, it'll work for you.

588
00:40:47,419 --> 00:40:51,899
Like the program preaches, get the hell out of here.

589
00:40:52,620 --> 00:41:00,860
You know, and, and, you know, it's, it's, you know, people in the field who work as

590
00:41:00,860 --> 00:41:04,860
substance use therapists, primarily, you know, I think they, I think it's time to

591
00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:06,540
reign some of these ideas back.

592
00:41:06,540 --> 00:41:11,100
You know, what works for one doesn't work for all, you know, same thing with compliance,

593
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,300
you know, just because you want to push compliance on one chart doesn't mean it

594
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:17,739
needs to be compliance across the board, you know, or this heavy focus.

595
00:41:17,739 --> 00:41:23,979
And I've always said this and I'll say it, you know, uh, to the day I die, you know,

596
00:41:23,979 --> 00:41:28,939
you can talk to me, Jayco or freaking car for whoever the state of North Carolina can

597
00:41:28,939 --> 00:41:32,860
talk to me about compliance, compliance, compliance, compliance, compliance, compliance.

598
00:41:33,419 --> 00:41:35,739
And they're my response to them.

599
00:41:36,459 --> 00:41:38,780
At least the fucking chart won't relapse.

600
00:41:42,860 --> 00:41:43,020
Yeah.

601
00:41:43,020 --> 00:41:45,899
Cause you're not, you're dealing with, yeah, you lose sight of the person.

602
00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:47,179
Right.

603
00:41:48,060 --> 00:41:48,620
Absolutely.

604
00:41:49,739 --> 00:41:50,379
Absolutely.

605
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:58,060
Now you highlighted something, um, kind of touched on a little bit like, you know,

606
00:41:58,060 --> 00:42:00,620
paperwork and compliance and all that.

607
00:42:01,419 --> 00:42:08,540
And when someone's really struggling, they're in crisis, you know, it's, it can be get

608
00:42:08,540 --> 00:42:15,899
very complicated and almost impossible trying to find the right help wade through all the

609
00:42:15,899 --> 00:42:22,300
paperwork, insurance claims, you know, all this other things, you know, fill out a thousand forms.

610
00:42:23,899 --> 00:42:33,979
You know, what is, how, how important is it for somebody to really in recovery,

611
00:42:33,979 --> 00:42:41,260
to really understand their rights, um, that, and the laws that are there to protect them.

612
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:48,540
Um, cause so many times I've seen people, um, you know, just not get help because they just

613
00:42:48,540 --> 00:42:50,139
didn't understand how it worked.

614
00:42:50,139 --> 00:42:55,419
Like they just, they're, they're, they're deep in their addiction or mental health struggles,

615
00:42:55,419 --> 00:42:56,939
or just don't even know where to start.

616
00:42:57,419 --> 00:43:02,699
You know, how important is it that they do the research or have someone help them do their

617
00:43:02,699 --> 00:43:03,260
research?

618
00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:11,419
Well, I think it's crucial number of reasons because why number one, we work in a healthcare

619
00:43:11,419 --> 00:43:14,379
system that is, uh, I mean, I get it.

620
00:43:14,379 --> 00:43:21,179
It's supposed to be a socialized, you know, form of medicine in, in Western civilization.

621
00:43:22,139 --> 00:43:27,979
I get that part, you know, very socialistic or, you know, you know, I think it's people

622
00:43:27,979 --> 00:43:30,620
shy away from using the word communistic or communism.

623
00:43:30,620 --> 00:43:38,860
And I agree with that, but it's very socialized and I get that part, you know, and the reason

624
00:43:38,860 --> 00:43:44,540
I say that is because as we've been talking about, you know, people in healthcare have

625
00:43:44,540 --> 00:43:47,580
gotten away from treating people as people, right.

626
00:43:48,379 --> 00:43:52,459
And it's all about a dollar sign number, dollar sign number, dollar sign number, dollar

627
00:43:52,459 --> 00:43:53,179
sign number.

628
00:43:53,979 --> 00:43:57,580
And, you know, people can make complaints.

629
00:43:57,580 --> 00:43:59,739
This patient's rights to make a complaint.

630
00:43:59,739 --> 00:44:02,459
This patient's rights to do this, this patient's rights to do that.

631
00:44:02,459 --> 00:44:02,939
Right.

632
00:44:02,939 --> 00:44:04,860
I guess that is a huge part of healthcare.

633
00:44:05,419 --> 00:44:11,500
But once patients start making complaints, then people in healthcare get all butthurt.

634
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,500
Oh my God, this person is just annoying.

635
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:15,340
This person is just freaking aggravating.

636
00:44:15,340 --> 00:44:16,860
This person's just blah, blah, blah.

637
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,540
Shut the F up, bruh.

638
00:44:20,540 --> 00:44:23,820
Like that's what I've been wanting to tell, you know, some of these people that work in

639
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:24,780
healthcare.

640
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:28,860
Reason being, I made a mistake, you know, a couple of years ago, ended up working, I was

641
00:44:28,860 --> 00:44:30,139
working for this program.

642
00:44:30,139 --> 00:44:31,340
We got federal funding.

643
00:44:32,860 --> 00:44:38,300
So the way I started operating, because they said it would take two weeks, you know, approximately

644
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:42,699
two weeks for the individual to be approved for federal funding.

645
00:44:43,419 --> 00:44:49,580
So the way I implemented it at the facility level was once we submit you, you pay for

646
00:44:49,580 --> 00:44:50,219
two weeks, right?

647
00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:55,899
You're, you as a, you as the patient cap would pay for two weeks until you're approved, you

648
00:44:55,899 --> 00:44:57,580
know, in the system, right?

649
00:44:58,939 --> 00:45:03,419
And then once you're approved, then we'll, you know, then you're, you're, you're good

650
00:45:03,419 --> 00:45:03,979
to go, right?

651
00:45:04,939 --> 00:45:08,860
Well, and this is what I love about patient's rights, right?

652
00:45:09,659 --> 00:45:13,580
And once you become knowledgeable on you use patient's rights and complaints to better

653
00:45:13,580 --> 00:45:14,219
yourself.

654
00:45:14,860 --> 00:45:21,179
I had an individual that transferred from nice, from another program.

655
00:45:22,699 --> 00:45:28,860
And I, you know, we, you know, the individual and I sit down, we do all the documentation

656
00:45:28,860 --> 00:45:32,860
and I told him the same thing, look, you got to pay for two weeks, blah, blah, blah, blah,

657
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:33,500
blah, and so forth.

658
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:35,580
They said, Kev, that ain't the way it works.

659
00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:38,060
I'm like, well, it is the way it works right now.

660
00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:39,659
This moment.

661
00:45:39,659 --> 00:45:43,580
Well, Kevin, I'm telling you, we just had federal funding, blah, blah, blah, just have

662
00:45:43,580 --> 00:45:44,860
it first and so forth.

663
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:48,620
And I'm telling you, that's not the way it works.

664
00:45:48,620 --> 00:45:49,580
I said, well, how about this?

665
00:45:50,860 --> 00:45:52,459
I said, do, do me a favor.

666
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:56,459
And the individual said, yeah, I said, go make a complaint right now.

667
00:45:56,459 --> 00:46:00,780
As soon as you leave here, go make a complaint right now because that individual is going

668
00:46:00,780 --> 00:46:01,419
to call us.

669
00:46:02,219 --> 00:46:06,780
We're going to set up a meeting and we're going to go back and do the training and do

670
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:08,780
some like question training and stuff like that.

671
00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:10,300
Like we're going to go ask some questions.

672
00:46:11,179 --> 00:46:13,739
I want you to please take your complaint and submit it.

673
00:46:15,659 --> 00:46:22,620
Within 24 hours or 48 hours or maybe seven, it was several years ago, but within like,

674
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:28,219
you know, within a two to three day period, we had a scheduled meeting, myself, my regional

675
00:46:28,219 --> 00:46:36,300
director, and the entity for federal and state funding.

676
00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:40,219
And in that call, I said, you know, this is what it takes.

677
00:46:40,219 --> 00:46:43,340
It takes two weeks for, you know, for this, that, and the third to go through.

678
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:45,020
What do you want me to do?

679
00:46:45,020 --> 00:46:49,500
Because if they're denied, then they, patients have to pay up for two weeks.

680
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:51,659
Like, like, what do you, how do you want me to handle this?

681
00:46:51,659 --> 00:46:53,419
And I have my regional director on the phone.

682
00:46:54,139 --> 00:47:00,060
Individual literally say, Kev, have you ever seen somebody didn't be denied off of blah,

683
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:01,580
blah, blah, no, sir, never.

684
00:47:01,580 --> 00:47:01,820
Okay.

685
00:47:01,820 --> 00:47:08,300
Then I want you to immediately do changing changes in your system.

686
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:12,300
And in a way y'all do things, apply for federal funding.

687
00:47:13,419 --> 00:47:19,179
Patients do not have to pay any longer until they are denied.

688
00:47:19,179 --> 00:47:21,419
Or we, you know, the funding is taken away.

689
00:47:21,419 --> 00:47:23,020
It's canceled, stopped, or what have you.

690
00:47:23,899 --> 00:47:25,020
And so that's what we use.

691
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:31,100
You know, complaints are made or, or, or, or, you know, used and should be, or should be used

692
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:37,100
to better and improve and change the quality of services that we are provide, that we provide.

693
00:47:37,979 --> 00:47:38,219
Right.

694
00:47:39,260 --> 00:47:43,739
If I'm doing something wrong, I need to be able to step back

695
00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:47,979
instead of taking it personally and say, oh, okay.

696
00:47:49,340 --> 00:47:51,419
How, how do I do, you know, just have a third.

697
00:47:51,419 --> 00:47:55,020
So understanding one's rights is very crucial because

698
00:47:55,020 --> 00:47:58,379
that individual understood their rights as a person, as a patient.

699
00:47:59,179 --> 00:48:02,699
And I encouraged them to utilize their rights as a patient.

700
00:48:02,699 --> 00:48:09,899
And it actually even helped us to better our services and to improve our quality of services.

701
00:48:09,899 --> 00:48:10,939
It literally did that.

702
00:48:12,459 --> 00:48:13,100
I like that.

703
00:48:14,459 --> 00:48:17,820
And so, you know, rights, patient's rights is very important.

704
00:48:18,379 --> 00:48:20,860
You know, you have a right to ask for a therapist.

705
00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:24,459
You have a right to, you know, seek services wherever you want to from, you know,

706
00:48:24,459 --> 00:48:26,459
wherever you want from, it doesn't matter.

707
00:48:26,459 --> 00:48:29,979
You have a right for certain types of treatment, you know.

708
00:48:29,979 --> 00:48:33,580
Now, whether you're approved for those types of treatments is neither here nor there.

709
00:48:33,580 --> 00:48:36,379
I can't, I can't speak on that one because every entity is different.

710
00:48:36,379 --> 00:48:37,580
Every organization is different.

711
00:48:38,219 --> 00:48:38,459
Right.

712
00:48:41,340 --> 00:48:47,979
Now, something that's, that I think comes up sometimes is, you know,

713
00:48:47,979 --> 00:48:52,699
when somebody is like in the throes of their addiction or mental health

714
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:56,060
or even a combination of the both, when they're in a crisis,

715
00:48:57,500 --> 00:48:58,540
that can be scary.

716
00:48:59,739 --> 00:49:02,300
That can be very intimidating and very uncertain.

717
00:49:04,060 --> 00:49:12,379
And do you have any, what are maybe some things that friends or family

718
00:49:13,340 --> 00:49:18,300
could do to support someone who's in a crisis at that moment?

719
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:22,060
What are some important things to remember?

720
00:49:22,060 --> 00:49:25,500
Obviously, safety being, you know, most important.

721
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:27,179
Oh, yeah, for sure.

722
00:49:27,179 --> 00:49:28,459
No, safety is very important.

723
00:49:28,459 --> 00:49:29,659
And that's safety of all people.

724
00:49:29,659 --> 00:49:32,620
You know, there's many resources that individuals can use.

725
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:40,699
And of course, it's 911 and local, you know, police officers, local law enforcement.

726
00:49:40,699 --> 00:49:44,139
Another one is 988, which is the National Suicide Crisis Hotline.

727
00:49:44,139 --> 00:49:45,260
That's another resource.

728
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:47,179
You got, you have the domestic violence hotline.

729
00:49:47,179 --> 00:49:49,260
You have the sexual abuse hotline.

730
00:49:49,260 --> 00:49:54,780
You even have, some organizations have local crisis hotlines too that you can utilize.

731
00:49:56,300 --> 00:49:58,219
And that's, you know, definitely use your resources.

732
00:49:58,219 --> 00:50:02,060
That's number one, because when you use, you know, well, number two, that's number two,

733
00:50:02,060 --> 00:50:03,979
because safety is important.

734
00:50:03,979 --> 00:50:05,500
Safety of all people is important.

735
00:50:05,820 --> 00:50:10,219
Again, safety of yourself and the individual who's experiencing the substance use,

736
00:50:10,219 --> 00:50:13,580
the suicidal ideations, or, you know, what have you.

737
00:50:15,580 --> 00:50:18,620
And, you know, so that's number one and number two.

738
00:50:18,620 --> 00:50:22,060
Number three is to remember that they're a person just like you.

739
00:50:23,340 --> 00:50:26,219
It doesn't matter if they're schizophrenic, if they're using crack,

740
00:50:26,219 --> 00:50:29,580
if they're using heroin and fentanyl.

741
00:50:29,580 --> 00:50:31,419
It doesn't matter if they're homeless.

742
00:50:31,419 --> 00:50:34,699
It doesn't matter, you know, if they're homeless, dancing, dancing, dancing,

743
00:50:34,699 --> 00:50:38,219
if they're homeless, dancing in the middle of the street, butt naked, right?

744
00:50:38,219 --> 00:50:39,899
It doesn't matter.

745
00:50:39,899 --> 00:50:42,300
They're still a person just like you and I.

746
00:50:43,419 --> 00:50:46,219
Because that switch can flip in you and I.

747
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:51,179
You and I will be that person dancing butt naked in the middle.

748
00:50:51,179 --> 00:50:51,979
You know what I'm saying?

749
00:50:51,979 --> 00:50:53,340
Like, yeah, yeah.

750
00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:55,580
It can happen to anybody.

751
00:50:57,419 --> 00:51:00,860
And I think that's the thing that's not, that is missing is looking at the,

752
00:51:00,860 --> 00:51:05,340
looking at people in crises, you know, as a person.

753
00:51:06,379 --> 00:51:10,219
You know, and I think that if we can take the blinders off and see that this person

754
00:51:10,219 --> 00:51:15,020
doesn't truly mean violence, even though they just destroyed the house, of course,

755
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:18,139
did they really and truly mean that?

756
00:51:18,139 --> 00:51:20,139
Like, are they, you know, they're sick people.

757
00:51:20,139 --> 00:51:20,939
They're sick people.

758
00:51:20,939 --> 00:51:23,899
Now, that also doesn't mean that you need to be a doormat.

759
00:51:24,780 --> 00:51:25,659
Don't be a doormat.

760
00:51:26,540 --> 00:51:27,500
Never be a doormat.

761
00:51:28,379 --> 00:51:31,820
But I think those three things is very important.

762
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:37,260
You know, making sure that you're safe, the family is safe, the individual is safe.

763
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:39,659
It's number one, number two, utilizing your resources.

764
00:51:39,659 --> 00:51:45,340
And number three, if we take the perspective of this is a person who needs help,

765
00:51:45,979 --> 00:51:52,379
I think that helps to reduce biases, to reduce discrimination,

766
00:51:53,020 --> 00:51:57,179
to reduce a lot of things in the field, you know, and in society in general.

767
00:51:57,739 --> 00:52:01,419
Had a situation happen, and I had to call law enforcement.

768
00:52:01,419 --> 00:52:05,820
An individual was, of course, an African American male,

769
00:52:07,260 --> 00:52:09,899
maybe my age or what have you, just a year, several years ago.

770
00:52:11,260 --> 00:52:15,899
And, you know, a firearm was pulled on the premises when I called 911,

771
00:52:15,899 --> 00:52:19,419
because my job as a supervisor was to ensure safety of all people,

772
00:52:19,419 --> 00:52:22,139
visitors, patients, and staff, right?

773
00:52:22,540 --> 00:52:28,459
And so, and of course, myself, and the facility, the medications, like everything, right?

774
00:52:29,179 --> 00:52:34,699
And so, when I called 911, they asked about me, you know,

775
00:52:34,699 --> 00:52:35,739
I had to give them a description.

776
00:52:35,739 --> 00:52:39,419
I said, individuals, African American, blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth.

777
00:52:40,060 --> 00:52:43,899
And I emphasized, because of the way stereotypes are, I said, nothing,

778
00:52:43,899 --> 00:52:45,179
no shots have been fired.

779
00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:50,939
I emphasized that at least three or four times, right, on to law enforcement.

780
00:52:51,020 --> 00:52:54,540
Law enforcement, I said, no, no shots have been fired.

781
00:52:54,540 --> 00:52:55,739
It was only brandished.

782
00:52:56,300 --> 00:53:00,699
And I said, I think in the form of self-defense, due to the circumstances,

783
00:53:02,219 --> 00:53:04,939
but it is still my job to ensure safety of all people.

784
00:53:06,699 --> 00:53:10,540
I had some people think that I made a call to call law enforcement,

785
00:53:11,899 --> 00:53:13,899
because of the color of the individual's skin.

786
00:53:13,899 --> 00:53:16,620
I said, no, I don't care who it was.

787
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:20,300
It could have been a little short three-two Caucasian guy.

788
00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:25,899
Well, a firearm is a firearm is a firearm.

789
00:53:26,459 --> 00:53:27,899
Safety is safety is safety.

790
00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:28,939
Yeah.

791
00:53:28,939 --> 00:53:34,699
And so, you know, I took it upon myself to ensure safety, number one,

792
00:53:35,899 --> 00:53:37,979
because I'm not going to confront somebody with a firearm.

793
00:53:37,979 --> 00:53:40,379
Like, I don't, like, I'm not in that position, too.

794
00:53:40,379 --> 00:53:41,020
You know what I mean?

795
00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:41,820
Like, I'm a therapist.

796
00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:45,899
I'm not, I'm the program or assistant program director at that time.

797
00:53:46,459 --> 00:53:48,860
I'm not going to put myself in that position to

798
00:53:49,820 --> 00:53:53,020
stand in front of somebody with a firearm and even lose my own life.

799
00:53:53,020 --> 00:53:54,939
Now, if I have to, I will, right?

800
00:53:54,939 --> 00:54:00,219
Like, if I had to confront somebody, I will, because I've been in certain positions

801
00:54:00,219 --> 00:54:05,020
where it was a lot of potential, you know, life or death violence in the field.

802
00:54:06,379 --> 00:54:08,219
Law enforcement took 15 minutes to get there.

803
00:54:10,060 --> 00:54:13,500
And so, but like, it was safety first.

804
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:14,219
It wasn't race.

805
00:54:14,219 --> 00:54:15,419
It was safety first.

806
00:54:16,219 --> 00:54:16,699
Yeah.

807
00:54:16,699 --> 00:54:20,300
And I utilized my resources, right?

808
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:24,300
And I still looked at the person as a human being.

809
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:27,020
I still looked at all the people involved as a human being.

810
00:54:27,979 --> 00:54:28,540
Yeah.

811
00:54:28,540 --> 00:54:33,580
And I was able, and that helped me to be able to practice and utilize empathy

812
00:54:35,020 --> 00:54:36,780
toward somebody else.

813
00:54:39,580 --> 00:54:42,060
No, and those are the situations.

814
00:54:42,060 --> 00:54:47,500
Obviously, that's not an everyday thing that you're involved in, but those are very, very

815
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:48,139
taxing.

816
00:54:48,139 --> 00:54:53,580
I'm sure emotionally taxing, physically taxing, you know, situations to be in.

817
00:54:55,179 --> 00:55:02,939
I'm curious, when you're not helping people in recovery or with mental health or co-hosting

818
00:55:02,939 --> 00:55:09,100
your podcast, what are some things that you do to like unwind, kind of take care of yourself

819
00:55:09,100 --> 00:55:09,899
and your mental health?

820
00:55:10,219 --> 00:55:11,580
I do a lot of schoolwork.

821
00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:13,899
I like to play the games.

822
00:55:13,899 --> 00:55:17,100
I like to, you know, hang out with my support system.

823
00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:23,500
And the last couple of days, I've actually, since I got medically cleared, I've actually

824
00:55:23,500 --> 00:55:27,419
been smoking on some nice, beautiful, amazing cigars.

825
00:55:29,899 --> 00:55:31,100
I'm sure that felt nice.

826
00:55:31,820 --> 00:55:32,620
Yeah, it did.

827
00:55:34,379 --> 00:55:39,580
And so, I have my own little thing, you know, I like to do some traveling and like to, you

828
00:55:40,300 --> 00:55:46,300
know, just see and explore and do things new, do things different.

829
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:49,500
And of course, you know, I was watching a movie this morning, Blacklist, I think it

830
00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:53,820
was, freaking amazing movie with Liam Nelson or however you pronounce his name.

831
00:55:53,820 --> 00:55:54,379
Amazing actor.

832
00:55:54,379 --> 00:55:55,979
Oh, yeah, Liam Nelson, yeah, yeah.

833
00:55:55,979 --> 00:56:00,699
Yeah, he's one of my favorite, you know, movie actors.

834
00:56:00,699 --> 00:56:03,340
But yeah, I mean, you know, self-care is very important.

835
00:56:03,340 --> 00:56:05,659
It is very, very important.

836
00:56:05,820 --> 00:56:06,780
Very important.

837
00:56:09,260 --> 00:56:19,820
And what is, what is one last bit of maybe suggestion or advice that you could give someone

838
00:56:19,820 --> 00:56:23,260
who's maybe struggling with addiction or mental health?

839
00:56:27,820 --> 00:56:29,100
Don't quit before the miracle happens.

840
00:56:30,060 --> 00:56:33,020
You know, I don't care if you relapse 100 times in the next 30 days.

841
00:56:33,659 --> 00:56:35,340
Don't quit before the miracle happens.

842
00:56:35,340 --> 00:56:35,979
Help is there.

843
00:56:37,739 --> 00:56:39,340
It doesn't matter where you get help from.

844
00:56:40,139 --> 00:56:44,139
Explore, reach out, seek it, you know, seek it.

845
00:56:44,860 --> 00:56:48,540
I don't care if you have to break into a church, I don't tell you, I'm not telling you to go

846
00:56:48,540 --> 00:56:51,500
break into a church, so hear me out.

847
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:56,540
But if it literally takes you breaking into a church, going in there, sitting on the pew

848
00:56:56,540 --> 00:56:59,899
and waiting for the preacher to come and talk to you and send you off to treatment.

849
00:56:59,899 --> 00:57:01,820
I mean, like, do what you need to do.

850
00:57:01,820 --> 00:57:02,540
Reach out for help.

851
00:57:02,540 --> 00:57:03,419
Help is available.

852
00:57:03,739 --> 00:57:04,379
I don't care.

853
00:57:04,379 --> 00:57:04,939
Right.

854
00:57:04,939 --> 00:57:07,260
Again, don't, don't break into anything.

855
00:57:07,260 --> 00:57:08,300
Don't break the law.

856
00:57:08,300 --> 00:57:09,500
Of course, don't.

857
00:57:09,500 --> 00:57:14,300
But like, I just heard a story about that, that a man broke into a church, went down,

858
00:57:14,939 --> 00:57:16,219
went in, sat on the pew.

859
00:57:16,219 --> 00:57:20,219
The very next morning, the preacher came in and the band begged and begged and begged

860
00:57:20,219 --> 00:57:20,780
for help.

861
00:57:20,780 --> 00:57:24,860
And they sent the individual off to a treatment and a year later came back a changed man.

862
00:57:24,860 --> 00:57:25,580
Right.

863
00:57:25,580 --> 00:57:27,739
The dude broke in begging for help.

864
00:57:27,739 --> 00:57:31,820
And so I don't care what it is, reach out for help.

865
00:57:32,459 --> 00:57:33,260
Reach out for help.

866
00:57:33,820 --> 00:57:35,580
2, 3, 4, 5 a.m.

867
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:36,459
6 a.m.

868
00:57:36,459 --> 00:57:37,100
12 p.m.

869
00:57:37,659 --> 00:57:38,780
You know, 2 p.m.

870
00:57:39,899 --> 00:57:40,939
You know, 11 p.m.

871
00:57:40,939 --> 00:57:42,540
Midnight or 11 p.m.

872
00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:43,100
Whatever.

873
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:43,979
Doesn't matter.

874
00:57:43,979 --> 00:57:45,340
Reach out for help is available.

875
00:57:45,340 --> 00:57:47,659
Don't stop seeking.

876
00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:52,379
I think a lot of people lose hope.

877
00:57:53,179 --> 00:57:53,739
Yeah.

878
00:57:53,739 --> 00:57:55,100
And I can see it.

879
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:57,500
I can see that, you know, why people would lose hope.

880
00:57:58,219 --> 00:58:07,020
And I think that, you know, it's important to, you know, I love what one of my good friends

881
00:58:07,020 --> 00:58:08,139
says, Ruben Burning.

882
00:58:08,139 --> 00:58:13,899
He says, I can let my light shine and I can also help shine your, help your light shine too.

883
00:58:15,020 --> 00:58:19,100
I don't have to put your light out for mine to shine and I don't have to put my light

884
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:20,060
out for yours to shine.

885
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:25,260
We both shine and I can help you shine brighter if need be.

886
00:58:25,500 --> 00:58:31,979
I can help, you know, and I think that's important for people to understand is, you know, for

887
00:58:31,979 --> 00:58:36,780
anybody who's listening, whether you're somebody who's struggling or even somebody who's not

888
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:39,580
struggling, you're just hearing us out.

889
00:58:42,860 --> 00:58:44,860
I think you highlighted, you know, something important.

890
00:58:45,820 --> 00:58:49,899
It's a difficult journey, whether you're dealing with mental health, addiction, or both.

891
00:58:49,899 --> 00:58:50,540
It's difficult.

892
00:58:50,540 --> 00:58:54,780
There's no, our health care system makes it difficult.

893
00:58:54,860 --> 00:59:01,340
And outside of that, just finding your way through it makes it difficult and not giving

894
00:59:01,340 --> 00:59:01,899
up hope.

895
00:59:02,780 --> 00:59:11,419
I think it goes back to, you know, one moment, you know, take it one moment at a time if

896
00:59:11,419 --> 00:59:17,340
you have to, but don't give up before the miracle happens, like you said, you know,

897
00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:21,979
because you're worth it and you don't know whose life you'll change once you're on the

898
00:59:21,979 --> 00:59:22,780
other side of this.

899
00:59:22,939 --> 00:59:24,699
You know, no, you're right.

900
00:59:24,699 --> 00:59:33,020
You know, I just had to speak Saturday night and this is what I encourage people to do.

901
00:59:35,020 --> 00:59:38,540
You know, and I love Martin Lawrence is one of my favorite movie actors, too.

902
00:59:38,540 --> 00:59:45,179
Again, I do a lot of when I'm doing therapy, I do a lot of quoting from, you know, could

903
00:59:45,179 --> 00:59:50,459
be from movies or what have you, TV shows or what have you, even theorists will quote

904
00:59:51,020 --> 00:59:58,379
I will quote from Martin Lawrence said in 2023 when he was giving a speech about jumping

905
00:59:58,379 --> 01:00:05,340
on the dream bus and he said, you know, get on that, you know, dream, get on that bus

906
01:00:05,340 --> 01:00:12,780
of dreams, hope, confidence, and I'm going to modify it some, but hope, confidence, grace,

907
01:00:12,780 --> 01:00:18,699
humility, honor, integrity, loyalty, lack of doubt, lack of fear.

908
01:00:19,419 --> 01:00:25,179
Jump on that bus and ride that joke until the wheels fall off.

909
01:00:25,179 --> 01:00:30,699
I would just say, right now you might get on another bus at the end of that bus ride

910
01:00:30,699 --> 01:00:37,179
because those wheels might fall off or that engine might blow or that bus might blow up

911
01:00:37,179 --> 01:00:38,060
or something, right?

912
01:00:38,060 --> 01:00:39,500
You might have to get on another bus.

913
01:00:40,860 --> 01:00:41,899
That's okay.

914
01:00:41,899 --> 01:00:45,580
Get on that bus and ride the joke until the wheels fall off again.

915
01:00:46,379 --> 01:00:52,219
Take whatever many buses you need because again, it's about not quitting before the

916
01:00:52,219 --> 01:00:52,860
miracle happens.

917
01:00:52,860 --> 01:00:54,219
So it might take 20 buses.

918
01:00:54,219 --> 01:00:55,340
It might take 30 buses.

919
01:00:55,340 --> 01:00:56,780
It might even take two buses.

920
01:00:56,780 --> 01:00:57,340
No matter.

921
01:00:58,300 --> 01:00:59,820
You know, go out there.

922
01:01:00,699 --> 01:01:01,899
Don't be afraid.

923
01:01:01,899 --> 01:01:04,459
Live life to the absolute fullest.

924
01:01:04,459 --> 01:01:05,979
Get into recovery.

925
01:01:05,979 --> 01:01:08,540
Get your, you know, help get your folks into recovery.

926
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:11,340
Regardless if it's substance use or mental health.

927
01:01:12,860 --> 01:01:20,219
And it's all about us riding this bus and having fun, living life, learning, and just

928
01:01:20,219 --> 01:01:20,780
exploring.

929
01:01:24,780 --> 01:01:28,860
Well, I would like to thank you, Kevin, for joining us today.

930
01:01:31,979 --> 01:01:37,820
Your expertise as a licensed clinical mental health counselor and addiction specialist

931
01:01:38,540 --> 01:01:42,860
and your journey with One Moment Podcast, you've offered us a lot here.

932
01:01:43,739 --> 01:01:50,939
You've given us a lot of insight, very important insight, very genuine insight into you as

933
01:01:50,939 --> 01:01:54,699
a clinician and you as a human being and how you treat addiction and mental health.

934
01:01:56,860 --> 01:02:02,620
And I appreciate genuinely how you connect with your patients and your audience and the

935
01:02:02,620 --> 01:02:08,459
change that you're trying to bring through your work and through your podcast and through

936
01:02:08,459 --> 01:02:09,260
social media.

937
01:02:10,780 --> 01:02:17,580
And for all those that want to learn more about Kevin and his podcast, the links, as

938
01:02:17,580 --> 01:02:20,300
always, will be, you know, in the show notes.

939
01:02:20,939 --> 01:02:23,179
And again, his podcast is called One Moment.

940
01:02:23,179 --> 01:02:24,699
It's a wonderful podcast.

941
01:02:24,699 --> 01:02:25,580
Please check it out.

942
01:02:27,340 --> 01:02:35,020
And a gentle reminder to everybody listening, if anything we touched on today triggered

943
01:02:35,020 --> 01:02:39,340
anything with you, please know that reaching out is a sign of strength.

944
01:02:40,139 --> 01:02:46,300
Never hesitate to connect with a trusted friend, family member, professional, medical

945
01:02:46,300 --> 01:02:48,939
resource, clergy, whatever it takes.

946
01:02:49,659 --> 01:02:52,459
Like Kevin said, don't give up hope.

947
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:57,500
You know, and I want to thank everyone for listening and for tuning in.

948
01:02:58,939 --> 01:03:01,260
And we will see you all next time.