Your brains role in addiction

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello everybody and welcome to Call Her Cat. Today's guest is David Bennett. David is a hypnotherapist, an author, and a speaker. He has multiple degrees from Ohio University and Emory University and spent six years working in the addiction field and continues to do consulting in the field. With his identical twin brother, he has co-written nine books on relationships, manifestations, affirmations, and weight loss. His TikTok accounts, focusing on self-development, have over 130,000 followers and millions of likes. He spends his time with his girlfriend and daughter and enjoys coffee, running outside, singing karaoke and trivia. You can find him on TikTok in one of two accounts at D T Bennett, B-E-N-N-E-T-T, or his second TikTok account, Hypnosis Brain Training. And you can also find him on YouTube at NLP Hypnotherap Hypnotherapist. N L P hypnotherapist. And with that, I will turn it over to David. David, if there's anything you want to add, uh feel free.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

No, I just that was a good vibe. I appreciate you having me on here, and now that's very accurate, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Well thank you. Thank you again for for being here. I'm excited to talk to you as a hypnotherapist who has worked in the field of addiction, um, written books with your brother. Um, and I'm so excited to hear your take on not only addiction, but just the brain in general and how it functions and how we can better work through our addictions and just about hypnosis too, because um I know speaking for myself, I've often been, I don't want to say it, but like afraid of it.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So why don't you start us off and and let us know like how what led you down to become a hypnotherapist?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Well, hypnosis is really one of the few things that actually helped me make any real changes in my life. So, you know, during when I was younger, you know, the way I made change was to, you know, talk about my problems, explore my problems, um, get advice from people, but that never really worked, you know, because that's the stuff people do over and over again. Then a friend of mine, um, he was a friend and he was like, you know, he's like, I can every time I go to Starbucks, I get free coffee. I'm like, really? He's like, Yeah, I just do it. Watch this. And I did. I'm like, you got free coffee. He didn't ask for free coffee, he just would go in with a certain attitude, he would go in like with a different approach, he would talk to people. He'd like to say never asked for it, never wanted. He would just have this mental intention of getting free coffee, and I would see him do it. And I'm like, tell me a little bit about what you're doing. Like, what are you changing? And he was talking about all these possibilities in life and how he changed his thinking. And I'm like, teach me, teach me about it. So he started talking about like hypnosis and changing the way we speak to the way we speak, the way we process information. And that just started a huge change in my own life. I just started to see life as more about possibilities and that you know, if we just change our thinking and change how we show up, we can change our lives. And that's and that's where kind of where I'm at today really began. I mean, the person I am today is just so different than I was back then. Um, I've made, I've just done so many things that I never dreamed possible. And at the root of it all is hypnosis, really, the idea that um by changing the way that we think, by altering our state of mind, we can become more suggestible, we can make those deep subconscious changes that that are more difficult to make if you're not taking a more hypno hypnotic type approach.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Now, in in your book, um, and I want to highlight your book because your book was really good, um uh Hooked on Heartbreak, a strategic guide to understand and break your addiction to a toxic ex or partner. You talk a little bit about the the conscious brain and the subconscious brain. Can you kind of lay a foundation on what the differences are between those two?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. So in hypnosis, we talk about the conscious mind. That's kind of the logical, word-based um part of our mind. It's the part of our mind that says, you know what, I really need to lose weight this year, I really need to give up that um toxic partner, or you know, I really need to get, I really need to get this addiction under control. That's the conscious mind. But the subconscious mind is the part of our brains that really that's outside of our direct conscious awareness, direct conscious control. It's the part of in the book I I mentioned that you know, it's um I tell a story in the book about you know, someone that wakes up in the morning, they've made this commitment, you know, today I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna leave that unhealthy partner. That's the conscious mind talking. It's the subconscious mind that gets up, stubs their toe, gets angry, starts the day off on the wrong foot. It's the subconscious mind that when you're driving to work, you're craving messaging your toxic partner or craving whatever you're addicted to. That's the subconscious mind. So things like feelings, habits, addictions, strong emotions, um, repeated patterns. That's the subconscious mind. And so pretty much addiction is rooted in the subconscious mind. Because, like I always joke around, I always say, it's not really funny, but I do kind of make a joke of it. I say, no one wakes up in the morning and says, Okay, here's what I'm gonna do today. I'm gonna pencil in um messaging my toxic ex at noon. I think I'm gonna do that. And then at one o'clock, I'm gonna stop their social media just to see what they're up to. You know, no one ever does that because that's your conscious mind. So ultimately, addiction is about getting into that part of our brain. And I in the book, too, you'll if you remember, I I kind of look at it in terms of the parts of the brain as well. It's those older parts of our brain that we share with other animals, that's where a lot of this comes from, um, based on genetics, based on our past, based on past trauma, what we saw growing up. And and, you know, unfortunately, if we always say, you know, to my clients, if it's the if your subconscious mind and conscious mind are in a battle, your subconscious mind is always going to win. It's why when I was, you know, I lost 50 pounds. That's um when I first started getting into this. And you know, I always say I would have a great plan, but at like 11 o'clock at night, I always got a Skittles craving. I would always, for some reason, it's always Skittles. And that and I would do it. Like I had the best of intentions, I had a great day, and then at 11 o'clock, I got that Skittles craving. And next thing you know, I had like three bags of Skittles eaten. That's the best example of the conscious versus subconscious, right there.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

And you you mentioned something um in your answer about the different parts of the brain, and you touch on in your book the theory of the three brains.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Um uh can you expand just a little bit on that?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, so there's this concept called the triune brain, and I will just clarify that it's more of an older theory. I mean, the idea the brain's more complicated than just this idea that we have like three kind of distinct divisions, but it it's very helpful, I think, for understanding the brain. You have the reptilian brain, the limbic brain, and you have the more developed what's called neo-mammalian brain. And it it's so we share all these parts of brains with other animals. The reptilian brain is what we share with, obviously, it comes from you know lower, lower animals like reptiles. Um, so basically, I mentioned in the book, it's kind of like we have three separate brains kind of at war with one another. We have the reptilian brain, which is more primitive, it controls like your heartbeat, your um blood pressure, things like that. It also is involved along with the limbic system with our fight, flight, and freeze response. Limbic system is where feelings tend to come from, like desires, emotions, and then the more advanced part of our brain, the neo-mammalian brain, is where our brain's frontal lobe is located. Now, that's the part of our brain that really makes us uniquely human. We have very developed frontal lobes. So our the frontal lobe is where you deliberate, where language is located, where creativity comes from, where you can see into the future, essentially, is the frontal lobe's function. And these three parts of the brain don't always get along, even though they are interconnected. So what ends up happening is, and I mentioned this in the book, and this is true, I think, of all addictions, is that when you have a really strong, overwhelming emotional response, what it does is your brain only has so many resources to go around, so much energy and so many resources. So when you're in a really strong emotional experience, your brain actually, to maintain that, it takes away resources from the more advanced parts of our brain, the frontal lobe. Because I always say, you know, if you're let's think of like you're being chased by a tiger, right? That that's an example of a very emotional or like limbic fight, flight, or freeze response. You're not going to be like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Do I run or do I freeze or do I what am I gonna do here? Let me think about it for a few minutes. No, you just do it, right? And and that's what happens when we get emotional responses, very strong ones, right? Like craving something or getting so angry at an X that you can't see straight. That limbic brain is taking over. And because it's more primitive, and our brain interprets that as more essential to survival, it takes away resources from our frontal lobe. And that's why when you're in this like craving state or you're really angry, you lose your ability to speak, to speak clearly, to think clearly, to deliberate. You do things that you regret later. You know, you can't even think creatively. When I work with clients, you know, I work with um a smoking client, for example, and I said, the first thing I asked him was, now when you quit smoking, what's it gonna be like? Tell me how great it's gonna be when you quit smoking in six months, what's gonna change in your life? And he couldn't even think of anything. He'd been so addicted for so long that he couldn't even imagine, like, think ahead what a great future would look like if he'd stopped smoking because his frontal lobe, at least in that area, have been disengaged for so long. So I had the time, I'm like, wait a minute, you're gonna save a lot of money, right? He's like, oh yeah, I'm like, you're gonna, your doctor's gonna stop getting on you, right? Yeah, see, I see so I had the ability to imagine for him and think through it for him because you know he had not been able to do that for so long, because in that area at least, he his frontal lobe didn't really have the resources that it needed.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

That's wild to me that your brain, even though it's one unit, it it still fights with each other. Um now you mentioned in the book too that we learn, and I apologize if I say this word wrong, experientially.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yep, that's yeah, you got it right.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah. Okay, not academically, but through emotions and repetition. So is there any information on how long it takes to learn or become addicted to those emotions and those repetitions?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

Well, unfortunately, it depends. Like some things, if something's extremely emotionally relevant for the brain, it can only take one time for us to learn something. So this is where phobias come from. Like if you get bitten by a dog as a kid, you might be afraid of dogs from that point on. Um that's an example where, and you know, some drugs, I would argue, you know, some drugs are almost instantaneously addictive due to the emotional experience it provides in the brain, like opiates can be you know, someone can become addicted to opiates very quickly because it just fits so perfectly in the brain's opioid receptors and feels so good to the brain that you can have that strong emotional response. So, unfortunately, it there are cases where I would say you don't even need a lot of repetition. Like, even let's think of in terms of relationships, there are people that fall in love with someone, develop a crush with very little repetition. You know, all it takes is some is those chemicals to be released. And but repetition certainly reinforces it. And I would say that's what's happening with phobias, too. So, yeah, you become afraid of a dog after, let's say, one bite, but then you also reinforce it. Every time you see a dog, you recall that original instance, and now you're reinforcing that in your brain over and over again.

unknown 13:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

And the same is true in posit with positive things as well. So you're you're you're associating, let's say, pain relief or escaping your situation, or feeling good with that substance or that person. And so every time you're you repeat that use, you're training your brain to say, hey, this is how I feel good, this is how I relieve my stress, this is how I um feel meaning in life, for example.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Now, once those like those patterns are are made or those those pathways are made, can does you and you mentioned that the brain, there's a lot of talk of neuroplasticity with the brain. Can you really unlearn it to the degree that your brain kind of forgets that it was there? If that makes sense, or do you is it just something that you have to keep doing to keep reinforcing like those new patterns?

SPEAKER_02 14:28

That's a great question. People sometimes say, Well, if you hypnotize me, can you make me forget something? And I say, No, you won't intellectually forget it. Um, it won't be like it never happened. But what you can do is though, you can take past events and you can encode it differently in your brain. Okay. Um, a good example would be um, like one time I was in a pretty unhealthy relationship and she ended it abruptly, and it devastated me. And I I was I wanted to check out her social media, I wanted to see what she was up to. I mean, I gave it is an addiction, I was addicted essentially, and I was going through withdrawal. Um, but then a year later, well, about two years later, I met my girlfriend who I've been now with for four years, and now I am grateful that my ex broke up with me because I met my new girlfriend. And so what my brain did there was I don't ever forget those things, but now I view it much differently. So my brain has encoded that experience a lot differently, and I think that's the key. I think you will always, if something you've done something for a long time, you're never going to forget it, but the significance of it can shrink. But I will say, and this goes back to you know what you hear in the addiction community, that it is one day at a time, and you're you you always will have to, I think, at least um handle it in some way. I don't think it will ever disappear. Um, like you won't ever not forget it. You you will you won't ever get to the point where it's totally out of your mind. But as the significance shrinks and the significance of your new path grows, it'll be a lot easier. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Now, like I've heard it a lot, and people are like, oh, this person has an addictive personality. Is there such a thing, or is that an incorrect statement?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

That's a good question. I I think there can be people can have a tendency to need fulfillment from life, need um thrills. Um and I think depending on when we're younger, how we got rewarded, I think we could we can be trained from a young age to seek validation externally and also seek validation quickly. And I think that can lead to looking for that validation, which then causes our dopamine levels to go up, and then that makes us feel good. So I think there can be a case that there are some people, yeah, who, based on how they've trained their brain over the years, um they are, and we see it, I think, even with like social media and things like that. Like when you when you've gotten used to validation coming externally, you get your dopamine from that. If you don't do any sort of, I mentioned this in the book, so I'm not sure if you remember it, but if you don't balance the quest for constant pleasure and dopamine and and more of the thing that makes you feel good, if you don't balance that with um some sort of sacrifice or withdrawing from the thing you're addicted to, you just keep chasing that next buzz. And I think that can lead to a kind of constant quest for what's this next thing that's going to make me feel good. And I think that there some people do get on that path, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, because that's an interesting point with social media, because you we've all heard the term like doom scrolling. You you don't even know what you're looking at, you just know you picked up your phone to look at it. Right, yes. You know, it doesn't even matter, you're just you know, and that's and that can be dangerous because it it affects everything. And so, what are some good ways to balance out like those dopamine hits for lack of a better word?

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Well, so dopamine's kind of like I've heard say it's like a seesaw, kind of. And um, one definition I really love about addiction is Andrew Huberman, he's a he's a podcaster, he says that addiction is the lessening, the narrowing of the window of enjoyment of something, is how he describes addiction, which is interesting because I never thought of it that way. So the more you become addicted to something, the less you enjoy that thing ultimately. And when I would go around and do um trainings for uh businesses when I worked in the addiction field, I would say, you know, a lot of people think addicts are sitting around partying all the time. I'm like, that's not true at all. It's like most addicts, they're not trying, they're not having fun, they're just trying to avoid the pain of withdrawal. They're not partying all the time. And so ultimately, that's not enjoying the substance that you're consuming. That's the exact opposite. And so the key to resetting your brain's dopamine system, that getting the dopamine receptors to get back to normal, you have to deny yourself the thing that um that you're addicted to. Because that, like, for example, a good example for me is I I've I love I I used to love coffee. And I I when I first tried coffee drinks back in high school, I loved them. Like, this is amazing. Now I take coffee for granted. If I don't have my coffee, I just get grumpy. So what I did was I actually just occasionally I'll just take you know a week break from coffee, and and I'll even do it with alcohol. Like, I don't have a problem, but like I'll have a drink, you know, I'll have some drinks, like I'll just take a week break from those. And then when I try them again, they taste amazing. And and so that's the key. And even with like a person, and I mentioned this in the book, you have to take that break. You have to then you have to fast from the thing that you're addicted to. And what your brain learns there is so what basically happens is when you're addicted, anytime you feel good, your brain releases a flood of dopamine. Your brain adapts to that flood of dopamine by becoming um desensitized to it. So now that previous level of high dopamine becomes your normal. And so now you need more of the thing that gave you pleasure. You need more of it to feel good, but you need the previous level to feel normal. The only way to reset that constant cycle of I'm getting more of this thing to feel good, but then my brain is now making that more than normal. The only way to reset that is to fast from that thing that you're addicted to. And but it can be hard these days. Oh, sorry, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

No, no, no, finish what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

It can be hard for relationships these days, I was thinking, because in my book, as I mentioned, um, to completely fast or give up a partner that you're addicted to or a toxic ex can be challenging because back when I was growing up in the 80s, if you wanted to see what someone was doing after they broke up with you, you had to hire a private eye or something. Literally follow them around. I mean, if you were looking at someone's vacation photos that you broke up with in the 80s, you were probably inside their house and you shouldn't be you shouldn't be doing that. But these days, it's so easy to maintain. Contact when you're addicted to someone. You can look at their vacation photos, you can see what they're up to, what their current partner's up to, what they've done. And that makes it really hard to break that addiction because every time you're checking out that photo or seeing what they're up to, or even texting them, you are keeping that dopamine level normal and not giving your brain's dopamine receptors time to reset, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Now you mentioned a word that I think we all hear a lot about a lot, which is toxic. What does it mean? And sometimes I think it may get overused, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on that. What does it mean to actually be toxic?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah, honestly, I probably shouldn't have used the term because in my book I even mentioned that. One of the reasons why I even stopped making essentially relationship content was because the term gets thrown around so much. And what I was finding to some degree is the people that were throwing the term around a lot, could it could easily be thrown back at them.

unknown 23:07

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

So in my book, I mentioned I don't like the term toxic. I even don't like the term narcissist largely because the terms have become so overused that there's not a lot of nuance to the words. And plus, I'm gonna I think we're all toxic in some ways. If if we all have traits, let's just put this, we'll be considered unhealthy and self-centered. All all people have those traits. And if you say you don't, then that might be one of the most toxic things of all, right? So but in the book, I I try to mention that, you know, so if you're if someone has a consistent pattern of behavior that is negatively impacting their own life and the lives of others, um, I think we could make the case that that would be an unhealthy situation. It would rise to the level of um, without using the word toxic, we could say significantly dysfunctional. And there comes a point where if your behavior is directly impacting you and others very significantly negatively, then that's when we need to start asking ourselves is this a relationship worth being in or is this a habit worth pursuing? Or do I need to look in the mirror and look at my own behavior because it's this is not the life I want to live and I'm impacting others' lives in a negative way? So that's how I would ultimately answer that question. But yeah, that's a great point. I don't like even the book I mentioned, I don't even like the term toxic, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

No, I didn't mean to put you on the spot at all either with that. I was just curious. That's a great question. Absolutely. Because everyone's like, oh, this one's toxic, that one's toxic. I'm like, do we know what the definition is anymore? Um, you know, because it's it's more what you're saying is more of it's more of a pattern of events versus just one, you know, event or or or or time that they did something. It's more of a pattern of unhealthy behaviors that could that define toxic versus just maybe one bad day that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Well, I am too. I'm not a big fan. So in hypnosis, and we don't I don't typically like the idea of labeling either yourself or others like saying you are this negative trait, right? Because that is gonna make it difficult to for people to change. And people tend to, including ourselves, we tend to live up to the labels that we give ourselves. That's why when someone comes to me, they're like, you know, um, they almost sometimes in the first sessions, they would they kind of want me to label them the unhelpful trait that they're trying to get rid of. They they they have embraced, let's say, for example, being codependent or being shy or whatever it is so long that that they they now live up to the label. And I don't think that's helpful whether we're assessing ourselves or when we're assessing others, because you can't really help another person when you're get calling them a label all day.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

No, that's that's a good point too. Um, I know I've heard people say the same thing like when they're when having a sickness, like I am this or I have this. You know, it's like messages that you're constantly telling yourself that you just start to believe it.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

And yeah, absolutely. And you live up to I think the subconscious mind picks up on that. So you might think, oh, it's not a big deal. I'm calling myself shy 20 times a day, but your subconscious mind starts to believe that. And then when you go to do something that's not shy, like you're like, I'm gonna call this person, I'm gonna call that place and ask for a refund, you're getting ready to do it, and then your mind says, wait a minute, but I'm shy, I can't do it. Even though you were literally ready to do it before you told yourself you couldn't do it, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Now, when someone comes to you, when how does hypnosis differ when you're treating someone, say, with anxiety or depression versus like breaking a bad habit like smoking or overeating?

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Well, with someone who um would be so what I do professionally is not really um mental health counseling. So I was in that field. What I do now is not mental health related. So if someone came to me and said, I need treated for depression, I would send them to someone in their area who treats depression. Um but the way I approach, like let's say someone says, you know, I'm sad all the time, I am anxious all the time, I'm worried. It doesn't rise to the level of, let's say, clinical depression, but they would say that. Um, what hypnosis can do is it can help people start to pay attention differently. So someone might say, I'm sad all the time. Well, hypnosis can get them to pay attention to those moments, let's say, when they're not sad or see a moment differently. So and again, that goes back to, like I said, subconscious patterns, or the same with like the same with anxiety. And hypnosis can also be very relaxing as well. It's a tool that someone, for example, I had a client the other day who had a lot of trouble sleeping because her neighbor upstairs um was very noisy, and she sent me a message saying that after a session, she finally slept and actually slept 10 hours, which she was very grateful for. So it can also be very relaxing, and also the I think the main thing about hypnosis is it it gets you in a state that allows you to be more suggestible, and then in that state, you can um make changes that you wouldn't otherwise make in an in a normal state of consciousness. So you can start to pull pull out, oh sorry, you can start to pull out resources that you otherwise wouldn't be able to access, and then you can use those resources.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

So are is there is there um are there any homework or mindset shifts that are necessary for hypnotherapy to be successful?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Well, it depends. I mean it depends. I I I usually do so. For me, hypnosis is not just um a client coming and sitting down and relaxing and um you know you're getting sleepy. It's not really just that, it's a combination of different things. So um I do typically give homework. Like I had a weight loss client who her homework was to come up with, for example, creative ways to get exercise at work or at home. Um, because in her mind, exercise man, she's like, I can't exercise because I walk and it it rains a lot. And I and so I got her to see that, well, that exercise doesn't necessarily have to mean walking outside. Exercise could be walking up and down her stairs. She's like, I never thought that way. So I had her come up with some ways that she could enjoy exercising. And in fact, I kind of made it fun. I was like, I want you to come up with some of the craziest ways you can exercise in your house. I want them to be fun, I want you to have fun with it. And when you come back to me, I want you to, I want to be able to even laugh at how absurd some of these are, but effective. And that's a type of hypnosis, too, because what it's doing is it's it's getting her to bypass the factor in her mind that's resisting change. So she's laughing, she's having fun. So by the time she, so normally when you're playing an exercise routine, you're not having fun, but by doing that, she was actually having fun doing it. And she was excited to come back and tell me the things that she came up with. So that's an example of kind of taking the hypnosis and um extending it to the work she was doing at home.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Now, is hypnosis? I know this might be a difficult question. How how many sessions for for a client do you recommend? Or is there like a certain number for clients?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Well, honestly, it really just depends. Um, one study showed that um six sessions is a good amount. I think it was 93% of people had a significant improvement after six sessions, but it honestly just depends. I had a client who she was a friend of, she was um a friend of my friend, and he's like, Look, we're desperate. She was a she had um an opiate addiction. He's like, We're desperate, we'll try anything. I'm like, sure, let's let's let's try hypnosis. I'm like, I'm not making any guarantees. I don't make any guarantees with something like that. I I will not do that because um I'm not gonna make promises like that. So we did like she had some pain issues too, and that's how she got addicted to opiates. I said, We'll deal with some of the pain stuff that you struggle with that then lead you to relapse. We did three sessions. She never wanted a third session. I'm sorry, we did three. She didn't want a fourth, never heard from her. Like we like I saw her post on Facebook, never heard from her, you know. Like, okay, I don't know what's going on. A year later, she tagged me on Facebook. I've been clean for a year. Thank you for all the work you did. Right. So I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. That's cool though. That's good. Um, so that was just three sessions. Other times I've had clients, I had one client, it was more of a relationship issue. He had a lot of things going. He needed um, he needed to get a new job, he was getting over an ex, he had medical issues he needed to deal with, he had roommate problems. Um, he just wanted to meet every week, and and we met um every every week for for six months. That was just his preference.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

So it really just depends, honestly. It's not a very definitive answer, I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

No, no, that's okay. I just didn't I just didn't know if there was a certain number that is recommended or needed to see change, or if it's just variable based on person to person. Um now, what inspired you to to write um hooked on heartbreak?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Well, the only thing I've ever really been addicted to has been relationships, honestly. I have never struggled with well, maybe food to a degree. I was overweight um for a good chunk of my life, but never had a substance issue, never saw the point of it. Like I tried one, I solved one, I took like one puff of the cigarette, hated it. Um, I've you know, I never tried marijuana, like and everyone else went in high school. I never wanted to try it, never tried anything really. Alcohol, I had some, but after like two drinks, I'm usually tired and bored. So but women in relationships, that was the one thing that just I had real problems with. Like I would fall quickly for people that weren't good for me. Um, if someone ended it, I would think about it all the time. Um my friends and I even came up with the term, we call it the burn, that feeling you get when like, you know, you can't maybe contact the person you're into, or you're separated for a while, or they end it, they end it before you're ready. I mean, it just I've never felt anything like that in my life. Like I literally went through withdrawal when when I've experienced the end of relationships, or I've been dumped, or even when I really like something, like someone, and they didn't like me back. I I even a friend, like all my friends have experienced this. A lot of my friends, even, you know, when they would get girlfriends, they disappear off the face of the earth. Like I would never, I remember in high school, the minute every I mean it was to a guy. A lot of people think guys aren't like this, but every friend of mine was like that. The minute they got in a relationship, you never saw them. Then they broke up with a girlfriend, or they broke, she broke up with them, then they suddenly were hanging out again. Just a real and I mentioned even in the book the um they did brain scans of people that were in love and they found that their brains light up like they're using drugs. Now, I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the book, but they did research on it's kind of funny, they did research on prairie bowls. They're animals that um naturally pair up. They're some of the few animals that like partner up, like people do, you know. And they did an experiment where they had prairie bowls that were in love, so they were in love with each other, whatever that means. They were going through the brain changes. They gave them drugs, and the prairie bowls couldn't get high, and they couldn't, the drugs had no effect, and they concluded that the reason I don't know who comes up with these experiments, it's nice to get prairie bowls drugs, but you know what they found was is that the prairie bowls couldn't get high. And the researchers concluded it's because they were already high, because they were in love, they were paired up, so yeah. So that's and that's what got me into it. Plus, two, I mean, almost everyone I know has been in an unhealthy relationship at some point. People that you would stereotypically say don't have any problems, people with great jobs who otherwise have had a very stable and normal life have been in relationships that have been outright unhealthy and um and and chaotic and troubling. So I just think it's something people don't think much about. Like there are people who, like I said, have everything else going for them. They have a great job, they exercise all the time, they are very accomplished, but they go home to someone, for example, who won't get a job or who um emotionally or physically abuses them. People that, and there's not a lot of awareness about this, really. I I even said, you know, that we need to go into every high school and say, look, before you fall for that person that you know is filled with red flags, be careful because you could that could impact the rest of your life in the same way using a substance could. You get addicted to someone that's bad for you, that's gonna um harm you physically or emotionally or keep you stuck in life, you could be dealing with the impact of that for literally the rest of your life if you're not careful.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Well, and I I've seen patterns where in in unhealthy relationships where you can see from the outside looking in, it's just it's it's not a good situation. And they'll they'll fight or it'll be abusive, but then there'll be like a a space where they're all lovey dovey and gifts and all that. And that feels like a very dangerous cycle to me. You know, and you can kind of see, you know, and it's like how does your brain or how do you recover from that? Um and like what are some steps that people can can use to other than you know going to counseling and getting appropriate help? What are some steps that they can take to you know handle that that kind of rebound? Because like like you said, it's similar to a drug addiction, so you're gonna have kind of like for lack of a better word, like a withdrawal. What are some steps or suggestions that you have for somebody who's kind of like stepping away from a situation that's just unhealthy?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

That's a great question, because I don't I only remember the part in the book, but I talk about um the reason why relationships are so addictive, like in particular unhealthy relationships, is because of that hot and cold thing. The intermittent it's called intermittent rewards. It's why slot machines are addictive. Because slot machines pay out just enough to keep you hooked. That if slot machines never paid out, people be like, this is boring. This is the most I played slot machines, I think they're super boring. I don't understand them. But if they never paid out, people are just literally clicking on a screen with random stuff, but they pay out just enough to keep you hooked, even though you lose most of the time. And that's the same principle of why a lot of these unhealthy relationships are addictive, because they're not all bad. If they were all bad, like you said, people would um they'd leave, but but there's moments of good, there's moments of recalling the initial attraction, there's moments of love and and pleasantness and and compliments and things like that. And that's actually how cults work. That's how cults keep people addicted, right? They they make you feel really good a lot, but they also make you feel really bad too. But the good sometimes outweighs the bad because you remember those initial feelings. So I think what I recommend doing is first of all, and and I I have a chapter in the book, you've got to get balance back in your life, is very important. So when you're addicted to a person, you tend to, they become the focus of your universe. So you are in their reality, right? You're at the whims of them to make you happy, and you're also controlled by them when they make you feel bad, too. So, and you think about it, like I tell people that the opposite of love from a brain standpoint isn't hate, it's actually indifference. Because people, I I've seen people like I have clients who said, Well, I'm totally over my ex. I hate him, I hate him, you know. And and I say, Well, what do you do related to him? Well, I'm posting it on social media all day, these memes about him. I'm, you know, and I'm watching content about toxic relationships all day. And and so what they've done is, and and they've done research that in the brain, the neural pathways of strong love actually are very close to the neural pathways of strong hate. So, what I recommend, I have a chapter in the book called This, is you want to aim for neutrality. So you want to get balance back in your life, is the first thing. Start, you know, contact your friends, see your family, you know, do things that get your mind off that person, direct your brain away from that, start giving you pleasure from something that isn't this person's words, this person's compliments. Start to expand the things that give you pleasure. That'll also help your brain's dopamine system start to get normalized a little bit. So your entire life isn't revolving around this person that you've been addicted to the rest of your life, that for your entire life, and start expanding. And I give areas in the book like start getting involved in civic things, take some classes, um, start going to the gym, just things that lessen their influence. And right, yeah, so I think that and also just start to aim for neutrality. The the best thing you can do, I know it's hard because it's addictive in nature, but uh you know, focus on dealing with the reactive response that you have to them. So take the intensity that you have to argue with them over text. And and I have I have a protocol in the book because that's easier said than done. I call it the seven-step creation protocol. And what it is, it's just a it's just a method basically of recognizing when you're triggered, calming down your nervous system response. And by doing that, then you can get your um logical brain back online. Once your logical brain is back online, then you can focus your attention to something else. And by focusing your attention to something else, you start to build those new neural pathways that aren't stuck in that. Um, I'm mad at them, but I'm also craving their attention cycle.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

And eventually, eventually, if you do that, they you will start to see them more neutrally. You won't care as much about their praise and you won't be as angry and as agitated when they do something that you feel like um outrages you or angers you.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Now, do you think there's a part when you're recovering from like especially addictive relationships where you just kind of have to get a you have to be a little bit uncomfortable with maybe the chaos going away, like just being by yourself? Do you think there's a part that you just kind of have to acknowledge, hey, like this feels different for me now?

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. In fact, being single for a while is very important, especially if you've never been single for really any long-term period of your life. And I think it will it will be uncomfortable. And that's the nature of withdrawal, and that's the nature of uh of dopamine reset is discomfort. And so, what I what I teach clients to do is to reframe the discomfort as something positive. So, a good example is find a way to reframe it positively. I Like I love, like I run, I exercise, and I reframe the intense the the pain of exercise positively as it's getting me ready for my half marathon or getting me ready for something. Or, you know, I see I see the the positive frame of the suffering of the um readjustment. Most of us tend to, when we're going through something discomfort with this discomforting, we tend to be like, oh, this sucks, and I can't stand this, and what am I gonna do? Because that's our brain's natural response. So I think it's important to give it a positive frame. Even kind of what you're doing, I was thinking today as I was getting ready for this interview, you know, what you're doing with this, like your podcast is a very positive framing of your new, you know, the new life you're living. You know what I mean? And you have to find those positive reframes of the things you're going through because that tells your brain, hey, this is actually kind of a fun thing. This is actually kind of a cool thing. Like, wow, look at all the things I'm doing. They actually did a study where they looked at people who had been who had gone through trauma and they used uh people who had gone through 9-11, and they looked at them 10 years later, and what they found is the people that were really were healed, that had healed were people that found meaning in the trauma. Like they gave their trauma or chaotic experience, they gave it meaning. They gave it meaning, they found a meaning. The people that were not healed were still looking to find the meaning, like they couldn't find any sort of meaning in it. So I think framing your struggle in a positive way, or even finding something, even creating something even, um, can go a long way in helping you get through that that tough part um when you're when you're breaking that addiction.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

No, because like you, I've been in you know a couple unhealthy relationships in in my time. And that initial uncomfort phase, and and I and I I was thinking this as I was listening to your book, I was like, I wish I had like the this this kind of not it's not uh I say manual, but it's kind of like a nice like it explains not only just um you taught you had a couple interesting chapters about trauma bonding, which I found really interesting. Um, but explains how the brain works, like what's happening, because I would have be asking myself, like, what is wrong with this is not right, like I you know, I know it's not right, you know, and yeah, I'm continuing to seek that out, which is unhealthy for me. You know, and I love what you said about how this should be in the hands of like um kids like in high school, especially, um especially now with like social media being so so much. Because like you said, it's you can look at anybody any time of the day, social media, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. And it's unhealthy to know what someone is doing at all points of time in their day, you know, or or five, or seeing them at like a Starbucks or whatever, or or their parents, or like it's it's it's not healthy, and there's just no break. And I'm looking, and I like that you're you're a big supporter of getting this into the hands of of teenagers who who really really need this. I mean, we all need it, but it's a very important book that I think I know needs to be talked about more because addiction, addictive relationships are they have a lot of a lot of damage. They can especially if you involve children and things in that. Um and what I just want to touch briefly, I don't know if you can is there anything that any study that shows what it's like for a child to be in a relationship, like have two parents that are like in like this unhealthy relationship.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Well, I'm not sure of any um, I'm sure there are. I I'm not really familiar with any. I do know that um if there's any sort of trauma, like one of the biggest predictors of um adult outcomes in terms of adult children turning into um addicts, being in jail, um things like that is childhood trauma. It it was a long-term study that was done. I think it was the ACE study, adverse childhood events, I believe. So childhood trauma is a huge predictor of problems in adulthood, essentially. So anytime a child is exposed to like let's say constant fighting, constant screaming, constant yelling, made to feel unsafe, made to maybe even feeling the physical or emotional abuse from that, that's going to have an impact. Because kids, the thing about kids is as adults, we have a we have a developed frontal lobe where we can take childhood events and put them in perspective, right? We could say, if like if an adult yells and screams at me, my frontal lobe can say, This person has problems. If someone yells and screams at me, I I know that, but see, children don't have the ability to do that, they don't have the developed frontal lobe, they just tend to internalize it and they use the resources that they have to deal with it, and their resources aren't very advanced. So they develop quite a few negative subconscious patterns and thoughts and beliefs related to what they go through as kids. And we as adults can sort through it. We we would obviously know this is the parent's problem, not mine, but kids don't have the ability to do that because they don't really have a fully developed conscious brain yet. So by the time they start to develop that frontal lobe and more development, they don't know why they act this way. They don't know why they fall in love with the first person that gives them any attention or why they yell and scream at people just like their parents do, even though they can't stand when their parents do it. That's because it's been subconsciously um learned through that, as I mentioned earlier, that strong emotion and that strong experience without the ability for their um, they didn't have the ability to sort through it at the time, then that's now become a pattern that's wired into their brain, unfortunately. That now they'll have to deal with as an adult, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 50:23

Now, how long does it take your frontal lobe to develop? How long does it keep developing?

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Well, there's debate about that. Um, it becomes, as you get older, it becomes developed. There's a lot of research that it really never fully becomes developed. Like your brain is never fully developed in a sense as you're always learning. But um once you reach, I've heard it's static, I'm not sure about the research on this, how clear it is, but usually around your early to mid-20s is when your frontal lobe becomes like very highly developed. But certainly um in like late adolescence, it it's depending on the person, it could be developed enough to start to start understanding things and and making more adult decisions, obviously. But and some people, unfortunately, you know, it depends on the person too. There are people who haven't their frontal lobes dysfunctional because of because of how they've used their brain over the years or the patterns they've gotten into. So that's why some people have more impulse control than others, some people can delay gratification more than others, some people um can um use or might be more creative, more imaginative, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Now, do you work with with with uh children or adolescents at all in your in your practice?

SPEAKER_02 51:38

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

No. No, I'm can I'm curious with hypnosis, do you is that something that you can do virtually or is that specifically only in person?

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Yeah, I do, I've done some, like I do most of my work virtually, actually. Oh, okay. I've done some in person, obviously, and but I do most of it virtually, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. We set up a Zoom, we usually do Google Meet, and they just get a comfortable place and we set up um set it up like kind of like we're doing now. We have we have video. And yeah, it's done, it's done virtually. It absolutely works virtually, absolutely. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

What is a common fear or myth that you kind of want to dispel about um about hypnosis in general?

SPEAKER_02 52:29

So the it's a common myth that when you're hypnotized, you can do things that you don't want to do or against your will, or you'll do you'll lose control. And that's that's that's a myth. Um, they've done studies actually where they did a study where they hypnotized people and tried to get them to touch what the people thought was a hot stove. It wasn't really a hot stove, but they told the people it was, and they would they wouldn't do it. They couldn't get them to do it. So and too, so people will say, well, what about stage hypnotists? I see people talking like chickens or doing other fun things. But what I always say is um the people that are up there doing that, they want to do that at some level. They're entertaining, they're having fun. It I guarantee if they ask them, if the stage hypnotists were trying to get them to do something immoral or unethical, they wouldn't do that. So, yeah, they wouldn't do that in their normal waking state. They wouldn't do that when they're, you know, worried about worried about everything or stressed, but in that hypnotic state, they will do that. That's because they want to do that at some level. And it's the same reason why, you know, I work with clients who they're like, I've always wanted to do karaoke or I've always wanted to do public speaking. If you they can do that under hypnosis or with the hypnotic influence, but they won't let themselves do it under their normal with their normal kind of um like conscious anxiety and things like that. So yeah, so even people doing kind of the things that are out there or a little seem a little entertaining or weird that they actually want to do that at some level. And maybe they've always wanted to do that, for example. I mean, that could be the case too.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

No, I like that you said that. Like, is there like a mechanism in the brain that even though like you're under hypnosis, it won't let you do something dangerous, even if you're like under hypnosis?

SPEAKER_02 54:20

I'm not sure what mechanism. I mean, you're always so when you're hypnotized, you're always aware, you're always still you. I've been hypnotized many times. I've never um like if someone and you gotta even be careful as a hypnotherapist, you gotta be careful because if a hypnotherapist is working with me and I I work with some, if they say something that in my mind, like my mind starts to resist, it actually helps makes me lose the trance a little bit. So yeah, you don't you don't really ever lose yourself. Like I said, typically if you if you do something or have an idea under hypnosis, it's because that's something you probably want to do at some level anyway.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Okay. I think that's important to dispel like any fears about hypnosis, um, that you're gonna lose complete control or um you know be put in a dangerous situation or do things that are dangerous to you. Um, where can people um find more information about you? Where can they um like say they want to book a session with you, where where's like a good uh a good website or or anything like that to find you?

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Yeah, so I appreciate you asking that. So a good place to find me is if you go to direct.me d i-r-c-t.me slash dtbennett, d-t-d-e-n-n-e-t-t. That's kind of like a like a link aggregator, kind of like my link tree, but it's direct me, direct.me. It has my website, um, how to book a session, a link to all my books, um, a little bit about me, some book recommendations, just things like that. It's probably the best place. Also, has a link to my my social media sites as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

And I just want to mention your the book that that we were referenced today in the session um was Hooked on Heartbreak, a strategic guide to understand and break your addiction to a toxic ex or partner. And it's also available on Audible too, if anyone um wants is you know prefers like an audio version of the book. Um now I asked this to all my guests. Um, is there a quote or a phrase that you apply to your daily life?

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Oh wow, I put me on the spot there.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Well, I would say probably um kind of this is just a quote. I just it's not from anybody like anybody famous or anything, but I try to act as if I'm my best self. That's how I that's how I try to live. So figure out people always say, you know, be yourself, but I think it's important to be your best self. So sometimes when I work with clients, they'll say, this feels unnatural, this isn't who I am. And I'm like, well, when you were learning to read at when you were five, being literate wasn't who you were, but it probably felt a little awkward to learn to read for the first time, but you're probably glad you did, right? So I think it's important to act as if we're our best self, like our thoughts, feelings, actions, just we're not we're not gonna do it perfectly, but do our best to just act as if we're the person that we want to be in as many present moments as possible. And if we do that, we will become the the people that we want to be if we do that.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

I like that. I like that because you're you're sending like good messages to your brain, to your body, too, you know, you're acting as if you're already there. You know you want to be there. Now, are there any what are you working on? Any more books right now, or anything else you're working on?

SPEAKER_02 58:08

Right, so right now, um, I do have a tw identical twin brother that you mentioned. We are working on some um audio workshops. So he's working right now, and I think it's seven days to stop overthinking. And I'm figuring out which one I'm gonna work on, but I think it might be something related to um eliminating uh food cravings, is what I'm working on.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Okay, and I just want to mention your TikToks again. Uh the first one is D T Bennett, B-E-N-N-E-T-T. And the second one is hypnosis brain training. And also you're on YouTube at N L Pypnotherapist. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yep, that's correct. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

Okay. David, you've been wonderful to talk to. Um I've learned a lot. And I thank you for writing. Um, I haven't read all your books, so I am gonna look into the other books that you have. I thank you for writing this book because I think it's it's an incredibly important uh topic and addiction to talk about. Uh, because I think sometimes there's shame around being like addicted to an unhealthy partner, right? Um, embarrassment or guilt or whatever. And I think it's important to kind of break that stigma a little bit that it's okay to say, hey, I got a problem with this. Right. Um so I want to thank you for sharing with hypnotherapy too, because it's you know, you shined a light on something that maybe someone including myself was a little nervous about. So so thank you for that, and I I appreciate your time. And if there's anything else you want to add, you know, please feel free.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Well, you're welcome, and I and I appreciate you having me on and I appreciate what you're doing. I think it's a great thing to raise awareness about addiction and provide support for people in that. So I appreciate you doing that. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Well, thank you so much. And I will I'm definitely gonna follow you on TikTok and I'm gonna look for what else you have. Uh you and your brother, I should say, have have coming. Um so thank you again, David.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

You're welcome. Thank you. You have a good day.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

You too.