Breaking Free of the Alliance - Ryan Anthony Hernandez Shares His Truth

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome everybody to Call Her Cat Podcast. Today I have Ryan Anthony Hernandez from the Truth That Heals Podcast. Anthony, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Thank you for having me. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

I'm good. I'm good. So I'm excited to talk to you today. Very excited to talk to you. Um so what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Oh, we're talking about a bit about me. I'm not gonna be saying my whole life story, but just a portion. And just to give a quick, like quick summary. I born and raised in LA, joined a cult at 17. Like right as soon as I turned 17, I left LA, left my family, took off, uh, joined an end times cult, and then 11 years later, I left. That's like a quick story.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I was listening to like some of your episodes like about your experience in the cult. What kind of led you to to go that route? Like what do you feel like you were missing that you were looking for in them?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Or well, that's a good question. And I think really it was being naive and being uh very gullible at that time. Uh I had plans in life to get an education, to finish high school, go to community college, and then go to USC. So like everything was normal pretty much. Uh, but there was always a religious aspect that I had. And I know my parents are very religious, even my brothers, but there was just a different connection that I had where um I was thinking of a possibility of maybe joining uh either the priesthood or doing some sort of uh missionary type of work. And when I say missionary, I'm not talking about like Jehovah's Witnesses knocking door to door. Respect, but that's not my thing. Um, it was just a an idea I had of maybe one day doing some sort of a service, and then uh being Catholic, I did meet a lot of different religious groups. Um I'm not sure, I'm not sure how familiar like your audience is, but in Catholicism, we have like uh Franciscans, Jesuits, a variety of different religious orders who have different uh visions or different like missions. Like one for the Salesians, it's help helping to educate the youth for the Jesuits. I think it's more like uh education-based. So I did have a background with different movements, and then I I encountered this group, which I thought to myself that they were fully legit, fully recognized by the Catholic Church, and they seemed very chill, very um uh I don't want to say I'm trying to be careful with my words. They seemed very happy, and so they would have like events for the youth where like, of course, we pray and do all that cool stuff. Uh, but at the same time, there was a lot of like behind the scenes where like some of their priests would be like, Hey, I I so this is like a bit of a spiritual manipulation where it becomes like um they have a gift, and like I can see that you know God is calling you, and if you don't follow this call from God, um he's not gonna be really that happy, and you're not gonna be blessed. So it becomes it became a spiritual manipulation where yes, in my ordinary life, and when I say ordinary, like my ordinary plan was to get an education, go to school, go to USC. I already had an idea of what I wanted to do, not exactly, but you know, this is a young age trying to figure life out. And then here comes a voice, which is like a religious type figure or voices telling me, hey, you know what, God is calling you to this. So while my plants were very fuzzy, I didn't know exactly what I would become. Here I'm hearing uh authorities telling me, no, this is what God is telling us to tell you. And so being very young, very gullible, I thought this was a more concrete way of living than to have a fuzzy life. So I follow them, uh, left LA, left my family. They were, of course, of course, there was some friction there, but that's a whole long story as well. Uh, but there was some friction there. I left, I joined, and uh it wasn't because I was missing anything. I think everything seemed uh to be really in order, but I just felt that uh if I didn't do this, I would be missing out on God's graces, I would be cursed. And also they would say that if you don't follow God's vocation calling, then not only you, but your family as well will be cursed. So it's like, oh shit, all right. So that's kind of uh breaking it down why I decided to join this movement.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

While you were in the cult, did you have any contact with your family at all? Or was it just that was your life? Like that was kind of like your new family.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Well, at first I really thought that this was because in the beginning there's a lot of that um you can say love bombing, but I just I just think that there was yeah, people say that love bombing, but I would rather say uh a relationship. They build a relationship with you, and yes, it is love bombing, but I I think saying relationship goes a little bit deeper because you're I'm beginning to relate with these people, and when I entered, I mean that's where the relish the relationship dynamic starts to change. Now it's not like we're friends, it's not like we're on the friend friend level, it's like, oh, this is a real um I'm thinking to myself, this is a real legit religious order. Uh, but later on, it's really not. I mean, they did a lot of crazy things. But then the communication with family, it has been um like for me, there was some minimal allowance to talk. Other members hadn't spoken to their family in years. I mean, so it's it depends on the person. Uh, but in my experience, especially in my first year, it was always monitored. Like, they want to make sure that you're not speaking anything bad against the community, or if you do, like they'll be like, you know, cut off the phone. So it's it what it wasn't as if I could just call and just be, hey, I'm in the cult, go home and visit. No, it was our lifestyle became very monitored.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Like when you were in the cult, I know there was a part listened to where you were like fasting was kind of part of what you did too. Um, you'd fast a lot. Um what was what was that like? Like, did they make you fast, or was it like a personal choice? Was it kind of like a manipulation, like like you need to fast, or was it like a personal choice that you believed was kind of getting you closer to like your religious, your spiritual goals?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Well, well, it was very um like when you when you join, like they let you know already that they're fasting forever from uh Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And when when they say fasting, it's not like zero food. Uh the the fasting style that they had was uh very minimal, like maybe like for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Let's say breakfast will be like three rich crackers and two slices of bread. Lunch will be like maybe dry cereal, no milk, just something plain, just like that. And then dinner, maybe some vegetable soup or potato soup. Um, so that's Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And they let you know from the beginning. So for me, it wasn't really it was hard, but it's like, okay, like at least I know what I'm doing. And then you can offer it up as a prayer. Like, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna fast this day for my spiritual growth, or you have an intention, like you know, um uh my my uh family back at home, you know, Lord, I'm gonna offer this little fasting, maybe give them some blessings, and something like that, and that's fine, you know. For anyone who wants to fast, you have your full uh faculties to do it, go ahead. But then the spiritual manipulation is when now they're telling you you have to fast all these extra days, and or like uh an example, because I mean, 11 years inside of the cult, there's a lot of stories, a lot of things that happened, a lot of events. So just giving you giving you an example, like our founder, because the cult founder is still alive, he would like so we didn't have access to news, internet, radio, TV, all of our information comes from him or for the from the other superiors. So we would always like like he would play clips like from YouTube or from uh I don't know what his resources were, and I don't know what the heck YouTube was, but he would play like little clips of like different YouTube channels that are like about war, about you know, just that doom and gloom. And like he would pause it because he would give his own um uh like his own versions, I guess. Like he would uh give his own commentary, and so we would be fed all this information about how everything outside is evil going uh just in complete chaos. And then he would say, like, uh, I remember one time we had like 40 days. So, all right, we're gonna have a moratorium uh for the next 40 days, no speaking, this is gonna be absolute silence. Uh, there has to be extra prayers around the clock 24-7. Um, and then there's gonna be uh 40 days of fasting, except for Sundays. So on Sundays, because it's like the Lord's Day, you can eat normal. Uh, but for the rest, uh strict fasting. So that became like so. I disagree with that. I mean, even back then I couldn't because so like the thing with like the cult that I was in is like each layer where you can think and be like that you can disagree, they already have like a defense plan. So, okay, I don't agree with that. 40 days of fasting just because you say so, but now their defense is you as a member, you have to obey, you can't complain, and if you do, that's a sin. So it's like like your your mind is is being halted from even allowing critical thinking. So I would go with it, and uh yeah, so just I know with the fasting, I can go on and on, but I think maybe with what I've said, it's given enough information of how uh crazy it could be.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Like when you were when you were in the occult, were you were you all allowed to talk to each other? I know we were kind of cut off from like the outside world. Were you allowed to talk to each other?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Or was it it was always monitored kind of uh there was that's a that's a very interesting question because uh from the very beginning you are being of course we're isolated from the world, uh, but then we also have inside the inside the community it's called not to have uh we had a term for it, uh particular friendships. So like if they're if you're seen talking to like I had a buddy, a few buddies who joined with me from California. They weren't exactly from LA, they were more from like uh Ventura, um, Merino Valley, Riverside, but I knew them. And so inside we'd be like chit-chatting and we'd be having fun, and and it made the life a lot more livable, especially that first year where we're on that high. But then like the people in ahead of us, they'd be like telling us, Hey, you can't do that, you know, like you can't have friendships. And so already, like in the very beginning, they're teaching you to die to yourself and to die to relationships, not to really the only thing that really matters, and they they would deny this today if they were to hear me, because they say, Oh no, no, no, we we want you to have you know good, healthy friendships. That's bullshit. What really matters in the end is your relationship with the founder. I don't even think, I mean, yes, they'll say we want you to have a relationship with God, but it really seemed that the relationship with the founder was a priority, or the relationship of just being submissive to whoever the superiors were, and for you to always just be kind of like a slave.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Now, that sounds so heavy. Um were you required like in your cult to was it like a thing of more like attraction or like recruitment? Like, did you guys have to go? I know you said like knocking on doors wasn't really a thing, but how did you gain new members?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Like, how did you so um being like the way I was recruited was thinking that this is a legit Catholic movement. Uh so what they would do is they go to different Catholic dies dioceses or parishes. Um, and the thing is that you know they do look legit, and that's because what I've learned is that over the years they would fabricate or forge signatures of bishops of other people, and then they'd go to another diocese, making it look like they're you know really on good terms, and so then they'd be able to you know go to uh the parishes, or for those who don't know what the hell that is, like just to go to the churches and to present themselves. And the way that we'd prevent present ourselves is like, and this is what I liked is like the mission that we had was to really just help people to pray, like families. We just I mean, we're not going to be having debates or anything, but like it's within Catholicism, and you invite us, all right. Like we'll just help you learn how to pray. Let's pray as a family. Um things like that. I was cool with that. Uh, but then like the our recruitment was okay, so we have these events where we pray with a family and then we leave them like uh resources, like hey, here's our number. Uh, but then so I would do this. I go like house to house of those who have invited us. We'd pray with the family, then we'd eat, and then we say, Hey, like at our community, we have events like once a month where we just pray together, or we have like a Bible, not even a Bible study, we just read the Bible, we just chit-chat about it, and then we have some um uh food afterwards. So that seems like very innocent. It was then it didn't come off as anything toxic. But then uh so we gather their phone numbers or the um you know of of these people that were meeting, and we're always submitting it to the higher-ups, and then the higher-ups they would have uh big events, like conferences, and then we'd invite people from these smaller events in different towns. We'd invite them to come to these bigger events, and there that's where they would have like a total it was totally different because like there'd be music, there'd be dancing, there would be um, of course, also liturgy, they'd have like a big uh mass, and uh like towards the end, they would always like have like a like the founder, for example, he would go up there like towards the end, and he had the microphone and he'd be crying, like, oh, if I wasn't in this life, this religious life, I don't know where I would be. And if God's calling you, so we'd have like recruitment calls. Um, but they would really play on people's emotions. So that's how they started recruiting later. The way I was recruited was over time. Um, I went to Rome with them for Road Utah in 2000. It was an awesome experience, it was great, but like towards the end, uh the founder of this cult, I mean, he he could have just been so chill. I was 13 years old, and he's like, How old are you? I'm like, Oh, I'm 13. Okay, well, in a couple years, uh, you know, you should join us. So already he's already planting a seed. Um, but yeah, that's how I was kind of recruited by that planting of the seed little by little, even though I kind of ignored it. Um, but then later on it became more of like events, and it became more like a mass recruitment. Uh for me, it was more like a or for for me and even before me, I feel like it was very much more of a like a one-by-one type basis of recruiting people.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

You ever move around a lot, or were you always like in one place? Like, was it like because I've heard like some cults like kind of people kind of discover them and they kind of get a bad rap and then they move or they change a name?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

No, good, good questions. I like, I like it, I like it. Uh so earlier I was talking about how like like and I can't prove it, but a lot of people, a lot of ex-members have told me that they would see members forging signatures, or they would see that that was the obedience given to other members. So uh so I was in LA and the group was in LA too for a while, but they left. Why? Because people started complaining about them, and then they get kicked out, they'd be removed from the diocese, you're not allowed here, and then they'd go to somewhere else and be like, hey, yeah, we have total we're totally legit. So, yes, they would so they were stationed in, or we were, I guess, in Dover, Delaware. It's um in the Wilmington diocese. But what we would do, so although we're stationed in Delaware, we're supposed to just stay there, do our job there. We go to other places as if we are endorsed, and so yeah, we we move around a lot, but then once we'd be discovered as not being a good a good group, uh the bishops would kick us out, but then our founder would use it as as ammunition because they're and not only in this cult, but in a lot of cults, they have like uh a persecution fetish, and to be like, see, they're going against us, or there's something we're being persecuted because we're doing something right, okay. And then we would either change our attire because we would have like habits, or we'd have a we'd have like a uniform, kind of like a priestly uniform. Um, and then so like I remember in the Philippines I've moved around quite a bit, so yeah, there was a bit of moving. So I remember in the Philippines, I don't remember exactly where I uh yes, I do remember. I was in San Jose Nueve Cija, and supposedly the bishops were out to persecute us. Uh the church was working with like the Freemasons or something, and we've been kicked out. And then I remember there they had they would tell us, okay, like when we're here, we have to dress as civilians, we have to dress as like either teachers or students, because it's like in in our minds, we're being like, it's like we're in the we're part of the underground church or something. I don't know. It was crazy, but but the and the a crazy twist of this real quick is that years later, I heard a conversation that um one of the ex-members of the cult asked actually that bishop, why'd you kick us out? And the bishop was like, I didn't kick y'all out. I don't know, like you guys just started acting weird. And so, like, so this is where you know cults can be so manipul, at least my cult was very manipulative, lying, and making it sound like we had been uh we were being persecuted and like they were trying to kill us.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

All of these things are like made up ever like say like um you did something that wasn't in the favor or they didn't believe like aligned with what you should be doing. Was there ever physical abuse? Like, did would was there ever anyone who would get like physical abuse um from either not going with them or going against them or not fasting? Um you know, like like say here like a lot of the manipulation, the kind of gaslighting going on a lot, but like was there ever physical abuse?

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Like like a like a or was it just more of like the verbal like there was a lot of a lot of abuse. Um and so like for example for like because our life is very controlled, it's very much like clockwork, you know, everything's like it's for me, it's kind of like communism, and I'm I'm not trying to say anything bad about capitalism or communism, but it's like you know, you do your work, you do your job, you help the community, and it's in it it's we're doing it in a healthy way, like sort of you know, you do your work, but once you start um kind of showing human human weakness, as in sleepiness, hunger. You know, being tired. Yeah. You're not being productive. Or even in prayer, you're sleeping in prayer. Because even in prayer, it's supposed to be work. It's supposed to be a good work. Um, or like there's a saying, ora et labora, you know, pray and work. Um, as as they see like these weaknesses, then like the punishments will be uh, for example, extra fasting, or you have to do extra penance, um, or I don't know, an act of they would humiliate you, like a public humiliation. So those are some, but then it can get hired. I mean, depending on also the superior, not everybody was like this. There were some superiors who'd be like, All right, you gotta slap them, so you gotta slap him, or hey, you you need to be slapped 10 times. Okay, so you need to be slapped. And so I did a lot of slapping and I got slapped. I mean, not because I wanted to, but because I was given those obediences, and I would hype myself up to do it, even though for many of us it was uh like we don't want to slap them, but like you'd psych yourself into it. Because if not, if you don't do it, you're told that it's a sin for disobedience. So it's like, you know, you're kind of stuck in the predicament, especially at that young age. I didn't have really the um I didn't have the confidence to trust my own gut because now I was really trusting them. So yes, abuse did escalate to there were times where like, okay, going back to prayer, let's say you're sleepy. So in in the prayer life, uh we have our okay, I'm trying to make this as simple as I can. Uh we have our brevery or like we uh reading the Psalms, and our sleep was also another form of torture. We'd have like sometimes three, I think sometimes five hours was like max, but there are times majority it'd be like three hours, maybe less. And so, of course, you're gonna be sleepy. So things slapped, and I even like well you're not the slapping wasn't all the time. I mean, like I was saying, it depended on this on the superior, and that didn't happen that much. It happened during my 11 years, it happened depending on who the superior was because I move around quite a bit. Uh, but in some communities, because like for the founder, there always had if the idea is for all the sin that you do, there has to be a a penance, or the term he would use is a reparation, because every time you sin, you're kind of breaking your relationship with God. How do you repair it? By doing some by pain. So it sounds like really dark. So, like uh in one community example, like you're you're dozing off during prayer, which happens all the time. There is someone assigned to be ticking down, like how many times they were asleep, how many times did you doze off? How many times did you drop your pen or something? I don't know. It was very like extreme. At the end of the prayer, now we have the announcements. Okay, uh Ryan, you're gonna do this. Kathy, you're gonna be doing chores over here. All right, uh Timmy, you're gonna do uh food prep and uh things like that. As that while that's finished, then they're gonna they're going to announce, okay, now here are the DMs. DMs means they would say divine mercy. Divine mercy meaning uh they're the punishment is actually the mercy of God today, but the real meaning was uh disciplinary measure. So they try to you know twist the words. So the DM would be for like for all those infractions of either being sleepy, being late, or you didn't pray as well. Okay, uh fast, uh no no breakfast, you have to stay in the chapel for another two hours, or it can be um like 10 flagellations where they get like the belt or something, and you have to be whipped depending on how many times. So that was only some. We also had self-flagellation where we were, you know, we had to whip ourselves, not because we wanted to, but because this is like our reparation. This is our either this is a reparation for sins, penance, or um uh you're I don't know. There's now I'm going back in my my memories.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

The turning point for you, like after like 10-11 years, I imagine you're pretty like indoctrinated at that point. Like, what I mean, what was the turning point where you're just like, I can't do this, or I don't want to do this, or this isn't what I want? Like, what was that breaking point?

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Well, uh, you know, I was really all in as a kid, you know, as as um, you know, trusting in them. Uh, but I feel like I wasn't really myself. So, yes, like they knew the submissive me, the calm. But I'm from LA and I'm from Latino family, and we're fighters, you know, like you know, so like, but I I died to myself, and and I accept that, you know, like I was okay with that, but I I seen I think as I was getting older, you know, the mind is also developing, but we have a lot of sleep deprivation, so it's kind of it's like you are put in a in a on a platform where you are perpetually infantile, you're like a child because like you're lack of sleep, like of food, you're depending on them for everything. But what was happening was I was being put in solitary confinement a lot and for unjust reasons, and then they would say that I asked for it. Not like and when I say I asked for it, not like a punishment, but that I literally raised my hand and asked, hi, can you put me? I want to be in isolation so I can pray for the and they presented it like this, and I was thinking to myself, Whoa, what the heck? So I would be in the chapel like all day in isolation from the community. Like they would they would pray with me, like they'd we'd pray together in the same room, but after that, I'm in the room in the chapel, and like if I want to take a piss, I have to like ring a bell. If the meals are ready, they'd lay it outside on the table or on the floor. So it's like okay. But what was happening was I have a lot of time to think, also to sleep. I mean, dude, like you're in the room, you're in the chapel by yourself, you're not allowed to because it's a sin. But it's like I'd be like, sorry, Lord, you know, close my eyes, and I I think that really helped me, but I think that was just the beginning of me starting to uh not to crack, but for me to really start using understanding, understanding my own body, and then like towards the end of my time in Delaware in like 2011-2012, I remember asking them one of the superiors at that time, and actually I'm kind of like on good terms with this person now because I know that he was also under like the spell, so like I've I've forgiven him, at least there's a repentance on his part. Um, but I remember asking him, like, you know, like I've done my time here, I'm I I feel like I'm ready to go home. And he's like, Well, you can't, because like in Catholicism and religious communities, you have vows, chastity, poverty, and obedience. But in religious communities, they're called temporary vows. So, like, as soon as you can leave according to Catholic Church teachings, or like I guess in canon law, you can leave whenever the hell you want, really, because in the group that I was in, it wasn't even legit, but they make it sound like they're legit. And so I remember telling him, I'm ready to go home. He's like, Well, you can't because you're still under your vows. I'm like, Well, dude, like I don't want to be in this life, and he's well, why not? It's like I didn't sign up for this. I signed up because I thought I was gonna be going to be traveling, I was gonna be doing missionary work, I was gonna be uh studying, I didn't sign up for this, and so like the answer was, well, like too bad. You so I think with that, um, that started opening my my mind that no matter how obedient I try to be, no matter how good of a person or of a member I try to be, it was never good enough. I was always being punished, and I think that there was a lot of jealousy, maybe because I'm American, because I was Latino or something. But then after that, that's when I started to become more Ryan. Because at that time my name had been changed to Brother Jo Brother Joseph. So now it's like I'm starting to like, you know, think more like okay, I don't want to be bad, but I need to start being a little bit more like rough. And so yeah, that's kind of the beginning. Was like maybe like in 2012. I left in 2000 at pretty much January 1st, 2015 was when I pretty much left, but like around the end of 2012 was when I started to um started open up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Were you scared to leave? Like were you afraid for like your life that something happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 31:41

I was terrified because I see that if you leave that or those who don't follow God's call, they're going to be cursed, and that the family is going to be cursed as well. But if you stay, God is going to bless you. So yeah, I was absolutely terrified.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Finally, like made the break and like went home. That had to be wild for you. Because life had changed you know, in ten years, ten eleven years. You know. I can't imagine what that was like trying to re-acclimate to life and like kind of get deprogrammed from everything and figure out just where you even were like in life. You know, because you you left a boy, but you came back, you know, you weren't a boy anymore, but you'd undergone like this whole I I came back a man. Yeah. Well, I mean, that had to be like I I mean, I went to Catholic school and I can't even imagine, like, and that was just that wasn't even a fraction of what you went through, you know, of what I of what I I mean a fraction of what I went through, what you went through, but like what was that like trying to just come back and just trying to like find your footing and like unwind from all that stuff?

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Well, it was okay, so like in religious life, you know, you have like I said earlier, the chastity, poverty, and obedience. And I had lived all that, but there was also that, you know, as I'm growing older and I'm starting to kind of sift through what I've been taught and what I'm thinking, I'm starting to realize I never agreed to this. Like this wasn't the life that if I would have had like a free will, like, or like if I would have had all the cards displayed in front of me, I would never have joined this life. So they always tell me, like, hey, like, you can't, you know, uh, you have to obey, you know, you have to be pure. But in my mind, it's like uh because because as a religious quote unquote religious, it's like an it's like a double sin because like you're consecrated to the Lord. But I was thinking this isn't, I don't think this is so okay, to to get to the point hard of it, I wanted to be dating. I wanted to have a real like and the thing is that I had like we wouldn't really see women, you know. So it's like, am I being impure? Am I being lustful? But you know, so it's like a real uh it was an inner tug of war because here I am thinking, uh, if I do go dating, you're committing an extra sin. If I don't go dating, it's like this is where I feel God is calling me towards, but then they don't let me leave. So what I would do was I say, fuck it, you know, I'm gonna, oh, can I cuss on this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Oh, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

So I'd be like, you know what? Because I would be allowed to go out and do some errands. So I take off my um like my habit, change a little bit, and try to mingle with outsiders, you know, because I had, I mean, I was in the Philippines at this part of the story, dude. Like, I had been there for several years. I was always like locked up, or I mean, it just wasn't it's not what I joined for. And so I wanted to be normal. I'd go out, I start meeting people. I didn't have money, but like I started making friends. Then I I found uh someone I was able to date with, and so I'd I'd go back to the community, the compound, and I'd be like, you know, like you know, I'd go to confession because you know, I was just very, you know, meant and I wouldn't go to confession with like the cult leaders, someone else. But I just felt very like I didn't know myself, I didn't know what was my identity. Is my identity to be a religious, to maybe possibly be a priest? Because they're grooming me to be a priest in their order, even though I know that they're very deceitful with the bishops and all that, or is my calling really to be just on the outside of this group? So I'm really in the predicament, and then ultimately I went out and really had a great time with one of my girlfriends. And when I say great time, like you know, I never held hands with a woman before, you know, it's like so these are things where it's like I've committed like the biggest sins. And I remember going back to the compound, and uh one of the elders was actually very supportive, and actually he was already thinking about like he was also noticing things that he's like, this isn't good, and so I spoke to him and he's like, dude, all right, so we have to do, he was telling me, talk to the superior and tell him you're done. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm afraid. He's like, hold like, hold on to hold on to your um to your thought and just just stand firm. So I went over there and I spoke to him, and I've spoken, I've spoken to him a few times. I was like, look, I I I'm ready to go home. In my 11 years there, I was always the peon. I was always like the you know the humble servant kind of thing. And so he's like, You want to leave? I have a better idea. I can bring you to missions, we can travel the world. So I was thinking to myself, you know, real quick, because he's there. I'm like, look, I don't buy it, dude. He's like, no, you can we you you can we can send you to Europe, we can send you to this place. I'm all like, why are you okay? In my 11 years here, not once. I've always I've always been faithful, I've been obedient. Not once were you, this community, supportive of me going to visit my family. I see you all get to visit your family. I couldn't see my family many times. I couldn't make phone calls. Um, and I hear many stories about uh members when they're in crisis, quote unquote crisis, meaning they want to leave. What do the elders do, the leaders? You send them out so that they can uh like kind of like a love bombing thing, even though I didn't know that term at that time. It's like you you send them out and then make them forget about it. But how come you couldn't send me out earlier? Like, dude, like I've been here for a long ass time, I've been like suffering here, and only now you want to send me out? I'm like, no. And he's like, but we can be saving souls. I'm like, all right, well, I would like to save souls from the outside. And he's like, Well, and then but he's like, I had and this is what I I I really despise about some religious people is that they'll use this religious manipulation as if they are close to God, as if they have some special gift. And I remember him telling me like it was kind of like his like his last card I had a dream and your face was like a demonic. So what happened? Look, dude, I got a girlfriend. He's like, he's like, okay, well, you know, that can be forgiven. Have you gotten a confession? I'm like, yeah. Whoa, how much of a girlfriend? I'm like, dude, we went, I I I went around the bases, you know, like I'm you know he was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we we can't have you. All right, so then the so I'm gonna skip a bit, but now going so it took me a while, but when I went back to LA, it was it was a fear because I felt and and not only the not only okay, so I would hear I went to Alabama, so sorry, there's like so many, so many layers. They were in they were in Alabama now. It's a bit big, it's a bit scattered. And I heard that they were in Alabama, and uh I went to go talk to them. I go to Alabama, I have a big argument with them. They start because I'm an ex-member, they're like, get out of here. I'm like, no. I was pissed because like I I made the the travel to Alabama to see them, and I went there because I needed, I still was, even though I was out, I was still dependent on them, even though I hadn't I hadn't seen them. So I go there, they start yelling at me, and now I'm not anymore Brother Joseph, now I'm Ryan Anthony, I'm the whole Latino version of me, all me. And I got pissed off back. I'm like, hey, this is kind of disrespectful. I think you're kind of stupid. Like the rules you have are are kind of bullshit. And so they got pissed, and then they called the mother superior. So she comes, starts yelling at me. How dare you! And I say, Hey, don't don't talk to me like that. No, how dare you come here and talk to our sisters? Well, because your rules are bullshit. Well, who are you? I don't give a fuck. I mean, your rules are bullshit. Like, I I serve 11 years, I come here, you start yelling at me. I'm trying to make peace with you. I'm trying to really have a not a relationship, but at least peace. And she's like, Oh, why are you being such an asshole? Like, me? I'm being the asshole. So then she now she throws her card. Oh, well, I heard the way you left. You left in a bad way. And why do they why do they do that? Because they know that uh, you know, there's just so much shame, they put so much shame in sexuality. And I guess if you're a priest or a nun, I think once you're at that place, you know, you should know yourself. You know, you if you're gonna be a priest or nun, you I don't know, that's a de a different discussion. But what makes my case different in religious life was that there was just so much manipulation, lying, coercion, and there was a human desire for me to be dating, to be exploring the world, to live life, not to be, as they would say, evil or satanic, but just to love or you know, to have relationships. All of this is seen as evil. And then when she said that, oh, I know how you we know how you left. I'm thinking to myself, first is well, the first feeling I have is the shame. Oh, you know, I violated my vows. But then later on, I'm thinking, well, fucking what vows? I mean, if you're having a vow, there has to be consent, there has to be fully uh freedom, knowledge, and all that. This wasn't consent, this was a manipulation. So, but my body felt so much shame. After that, uh, we kind of broke away. They don't want to be with me, they don't want to see me. Actually, they told me uh Ryan, the the founder himself told me, Ryan, don't talk about this. If you do, it's a mortal sin, meaning you can go to hell if you die, it's very grave. Don't ever talk about this. It's gossip, it's bad. Next thing he said, Well, you're trying to you're trying to figure your life out. Uh get a job in the nursing medical fear medical field. Once you start making money, you can come back, you can start donating your time and your money to us. And I'm thinking, at first, I was like, okay. And then when I left, I was like, no, fuck you guys. I'm not gonna be getting you what nah fuck that. I'm gonna be talking because this is this is not right. Uh, but there was you know, going back to your question, how was it for me to come back? It was terrifying because I was a shame, the guilt. Oh, I'm a sinner, I've broken my consecration. Well, when in reality, it was like a dream, it was like a nightmare. Just layers and layers of lies, twists, turns, and then the guilt wasn't on them. They never took accountability. Like, yeah, yeah, we did punish you guys, we did have you in solitary confinement, yeah. We fucked with you guys. No, it was oh, you left in a bad way. No.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

All around on you, like you did because you wanted to go live a life and find out what was waiting for you outside of this cult, you were the bad guy.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah, always, always you are the bad guy. They will never take accountability. So that's why I started doing my well, like my podcast has evolved a lot, but like there are many episodes where I'll be doing like a solo episode, kind of giving information and calling out the bullshit on what the cult leaders do.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

How does that feel now that you can speak about it? Like, how does that

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Well, at first, I okay. So, my last conversation with the founder, as I said, he said, Don't talk because it's a sin. And he gave me two examples of two uh other ex members, and he was saying, So it's funny that he's like, Don't gossip, and then he's kind of like gossiping about these other two members. He's like, you know, I heard I heard that these two other they were doing this and that. So I had to call them up and I had to tell them, Don't do this, don't do that. So I called each one up because I know them, like, hey, and we're having just chill conversations, and then I brought up, hey, you know, um the founder was he was saying that um you did this and he had to correct you because you were being a like a sh like you were bringing bringing shame to the community. And he's like, What? Like these are lies, kind of things. So after that, I was like, you know what? Fuck this guy. And I did say that in one of my podcasts I think I said said something like that in one of my podcasts, and someone asked me, like, like, well, like, why why you say my look in the cult they say you know you have to be holy, don't and this is not only Catholic, like Catholic cults, this can be any cult where evangelical or whatever, you know, don't you know, don't fight back, be holy, uh, don't use bad words, but their actions of like shunning, shaming, manipulating. I told them, they're saying fuck you all the time, bro. But they don't use maybe they don't use the the the language. But you know what? My actions, I'm gonna be loving, I'm gonna be kind to everybody, but I'll say it, you know, straight up, fuck those people. I mean, at least I can say it. I mean, they don't have the ball, the balls to say it. I'll say it. You know, fuck that stuff because it's manipulation, it's abuse. People were beaten, I'd be beaten, like really bad sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

You know, one thing that like I'm curious, like how much do you think because how much do you think your culture like played an influence in wanting to be free? Because like your culture is very like very like happy and food and family and like music and like I mean that kind of seems like what they were doing goes against like kind of what I know about your culture, you know, like you guys love to have a good time, and it's always like you know, you're you're faith-based from what I've seen, but it's like you know, you're always like with people and you know, around and like and I'm like and I'm hearing you talk, and I'm like, like, like did your culture like just like you're just like this doesn't that play a factor in getting out?

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Um, so it's funny when you said about my culture, I thought you were gonna say, I know your culture is very like misogynistic or something. Oh no, okay, so you you and but the thing, you know, because this is a Filipino, uh the founder is Filipino, so like 99% of them are Filipinos, and I really felt a lot of racism from them. They'll probably say, Oh, we felt racism from you, uh, bullshit. Um, they really like I said, they like to twist things, and I think the I f I felt it because I'll give I'll give an example from like my first year. Uh my parents sent me food, like Central American food, uh through like another member, and then the member because I didn't really go home too much. Actually, like pretty much never. Uh, so they gave some food to someone who was visiting in LA, and this brother, cool, he brings it, and they're like, No, you can't eat like one of the the um superiors was like, no, you can't eat this. Well, why not? You need to be detached. This is your culture, you need to be detached. And at that time, because it was my first year, I still wasn't fully like dead to myself because that's why you have years of training to get there. But I got pissed. I was like, the hell? Like, dude, you're telling me I have to be detached? Yes, you this this Salvadorian food, you need to be detached from that. I said, Well, what about you, dude? I mean, and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to put any cultures down here, but I was like, dude, you're eating rice every every freaking day. I couldn't cuss at that time. You're eating rice every darn day. I mean, that's that's a Filipino thing, right? I mean, why don't you show me detachment? Stop eating rice, all of you. And then they let me eat my Salvadorian food, you know, like so so that was a bit of me. Then, you know, I became like super submissive, very calm the the rest of the time because I get my ass kicked, or I'd be in isolation. But I think later on, I think the culture of um I don't know, because you know, culture is a big thing, but then family, there's a family culture, and I think in my family culture, my dad was hardworking, my mom was hardworking, uh, my brothers, um, especially the older one, literally a fighter in sports, you know, duking it out. I'd see blood, I see sweat, I'd see tears. And so while I wasn't aggressive physically, I was aggressive in my spiritual life. Like I would, even though like they, you know, we do fasting Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Sometimes I would do like two weeks or something on my own, or I would do like times of, you know what, I'm not gonna eat anything. Not because that was coming from me. Like, you know what? I'm gonna because I was really like like the idea was you're gonna work, do your best. So I was really, and I think they they interpreted that part of my culture as oh, he's like he's fully in with us. Maybe so, but as I started growing up, then that that culture within me was starting to be more vocal, be more like, you know, so I think that's why they would put me in isolation, because uh, when a member is put in isolation, the and it says this in one of the books, um, you do it because you don't want them to be spreading their demons to the other members. So it's like, but yeah, I think culture or at least my family culture of being upfront, no bullshit, and it's cut, you know, cut the bushes or cut the or beat stop beating around the bush, say as say how it is. Yeah, they didn't like that.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

That's a lot. How did you when you came back, did you ever go through counseling to kind of did you or do was it more that that's not something I did well?

SPEAKER_00 50:50

I think like the best thing I did was make some friends, you know, really because you're trying to get your life back. And uh first thing was actually I went to Australia where one of my brothers is, and just connect and just talk, and he listened and he was very like supportive and give advice. For me, that was the best therapy, and it was free, you know. It's like you know, I have to pay for for therapists. Um, and I think that helped me to identify yeah, bad things happened, and there are bad people there. Because if I didn't have that, a brother, my my blood brother to talk to, I think I would be surrounded by other ex-members, and a lot of ex-members. Um, I don't know about now because I think with the podcast, it's kind of opened up a Pandora's box. But before, like 20 years ago when I left, a lot of people were still like ashamed, you can't talk about this. Oh no, Father Bing, and these are good people. Yeah, hush, hush, hush. We're the bad ones. But as I spoke to my brother, it's like, dude, this is bad, this is wrong. This is this is BS. It kind of gave me like the the courage, um, or it gave me the healing that I needed to not direct all of the guilt on myself because that's what we do ex-members. You direct the guilt on yourself, and then a couple years later, I did take some counseling uh online uh through Thumbtack, I think it's the name of the app. I found a um a counselor kind of thing. It was cool. I did a year a year. Uh I feel like I'm doing time, you know. I did a year of counseling, and it was good, but I mean uh for me, like um I think for me personally, counseling hasn't always I feel like I'm kind of wasting my time, wasting my money. And I'm not saying this is for everybody. I just feel personally I I do much better with good friends around me, people I can just talk to, people I can, you know, having uh things to look forward to in life. And in the end of the counseling, my one year, like the counselor was like, I think you've I think you're good, you know, like we can conclude our sessions. All right, cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

We do the podcast. Um what are some like hobbies that like when you got out that you started taking up, you know, that like you just couldn't do when you were in the cold dating?

SPEAKER_00 53:18

I I was gonna say sex, but I'll just say dating.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

No, I mean that that's a that's a lot that had to be like I imagine there had to be like a huge almost like grieving process because like you kind of didn lose those 10 years, but you kind of like lost a little, you know, lost that time.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

So as as soon as I was out, yeah, like I was going out, and I still stayed in the Philippines for like a year. Um, but yo, I was dating a lot, even when I came back to the States. I was very like when I came back to the US, kind of you know, different culture, and I didn't feel American anymore. But as soon as I got I heard of an app called Tinder or something like that, boom, I'm having dates, I'm going out, I'm doing things that I could never have done inside the cult, you know. I was, but you know, I still had intention of dating these different different people. I'm not trying to be a player, like I'm trying to also like yeah, I'm telling gosh, it's like I'm not trying to be a player. I was trying to really just date, like, get to know I feel like because a lot of ex-members, I feel like they fall in love with like the first person and then they get married. Good for them. For me, like, and I'm still not married, like pretty much all of them are all married now with kids, like 10 kids. Um, but for me, it's like I kind of want to make sure. I didn't, I mean, so yeah, I've been in a lot of relationships. I couldn't do that before. That was one hobby. Another hobby, I like singing karaoke, you know. I even um I yeah, I I I love singing. I mean, that's another form of it's of it's beautiful just being able to sing, being with friends. So I think like a lot of the hobbies that I have, um, besides the podcast, are surrounded by community. Like, example, with the with the karaoke. I like singing with people, having a good time, making some friendships. I like traveling. Even when I travel, I haven't traveled in a bit, but like whenever I would, I would make friends. So, like my first year out, or maybe uh first or second year, I just randomly got a trip to Atlanta. Wow, like dude, it's for me, is it was terrifying. I'm gonna be on a plane by myself with not without the cult kind of thing because I would travel with them, but I go to Atlanta, I go to random, uh, I went to a baseball game, uh, Atlanta Braves, I want to see the Atlanta Falcons, I want to go see um belly dancing events. I mean, I was just going out, you know, and I'm meeting people, I'm starting to open up. And as someone who had been um uh in isolation for so long, I felt like me being surrounded with people, just encountering different cultures, uh, even though it was like a quick trip, just a few days. I just felt like my roots were being watered. Uh I don't know how to explain it, just being around people talking. And that was before the podcast. And I think it really makes sense that now I'm doing a podcast where I'm talking to people. That's something that gives me life.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

I like how you said that like the you know, you were doing the karaoke, because that's like a form of like rejoicing, and that's spiritual in its own sense, you know, because in church and and you you you sing and and some like you dance. So like you know, it like you know, your spiritual life doesn't have to be like just all prayer and just all you know, like fasting. You can enjoy it, you know what I mean? So like it's I can imagine that was a huge confidence boost you to like go out and be like, oh, people like me, I'm not being punished, you know. Like, um you know, like, you know, like I'm not in solitary confinement. Like, like, you know, I imagine that like boosted you really nice to feel like people want to be around me. I'm not like being told what's wrong with me.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

Well, like it's funny you say that you know, like singing can be like a form of rejoicing, and like the songs I would choose would be like crying by Roy Roy Orbison, um Hurt by Nine Inch Nails or Everybody Hurt or by what REM, you know. Yeah, so yeah, I guess it is a form of rejoicing because it's at least it's getting it out of the system, and then afterwards, all right, let's get some drinks, let's you know, let's have a good time. And I'm not I'm not an alcoholic, I'm not trying to be advertising, hey, everybody go get drunk, go get wasted. Um, but just socially, and even like when I do, even now today, when I go out, I don't always like I'll go to the bar sometimes, I'll probably have maybe maybe one beer. Sometimes I don't even have beer, I'll just have like a non-alcoholic because I just feel like just being around people, and yeah, sometimes we sing, sometimes we dance, and according to the cult, you know, all of that is evil, but there's like a spiritual aspect to it, like you're saying, yeah, like you're you're bonding with people, you're having a good time, and it doesn't have to be with alcohol doesn't have to be the like the jumping board. You can just have water and still have a good time, and it really warms me up.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Where do you think like you've been so awesome and you you've talked to me so long? I don't want to keep you too much longer. Where does like your spiritual life stand right now? Like, what is it what is it like for you right now?

SPEAKER_00 58:45

My spiritual life is like a desert with maybe some a few buds, like because like in the cult, like I I think I was I was saying earlier where I was like maybe not aggressive physically or even like in my emotions, but in my prayer life, my spiritual life, you know, even like putting the cult stuff aside personally, I feel was really like very uh focused, especially with fasting. When I did it for myself or like on my own terms, it was really like man, the I felt like I was on cloud nine spiritually, physically really breaking down, mentally scattered, fragmented. Now I feel like I have more of a you know, my mind and body spiritually, like I feel it's kind of it's it's a different journey, it's it's not gonna be on the same, but there's I still say that there's still buds, you know, growing, there's still growth, but it's not as it was before, and that's okay. It's you know, even with those little buds, it can still sprout into something beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

It's like a I mean you kind of free to decide what you believe now, you know, and how you wanna rejoice and celebrate and and worship like what that looks like for you, not being told you have to do it this way, you have to do it that way. You know, because your heart's not in it. I can't imagine even pouring all of yourself into it, how diligent you were about it, that it's gonna feel like you're gonna get tired of it after a while.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

You know, I mean that's I I had a good run, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

That's a lot. That's a lot. Now, is there like I should have asked you this, kind of prepped you before, but is there like a mantra or a quote that you that you kind of go by in life since you got out of the cult?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Or like that you like tell yourself every day or one thing that I that helped me when I was in the cult was I I read it at a church and I don't even like sometimes you see like pamphlets and sometimes you have like a little excerpt or quote and it said it was by St. John of the Cross. I don't think it really is by St. John of the Cross, um, because I haven't been able to find the source. Um, but the quote was I am not made or unmade by the things that happened to me, rather by my reactions to them. And that kind of blew my mind, like, oh shit, like I have the power, I have power to react. I don't know, it just brought a bit of like um for me, like empowerment, because like inside the cult, it's always you like you have no reaction, you have no reaction. Your only way of life should be just obey. If there's no obedience, you just sit there, you know. Kind of like I said earlier, infantile. So I always tell myself, you know, I'm not made or I'm made by the things that happen to me, rather by my reactions, because there are a lot of things that happen, you know, like poverty or um, you know, things that you know, with work at a j at a job, but how am I reacting to it? You know, like I think that was very empowering, and it it still is empowering.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:17

And it's really like you do like a really good job with what you do. Like, you know, there's a lot of thought there, there's a lot of prep, there's a lot of hard work there, you know. So I can believe that you being in the cult, like seeing just like what little I know of you, I can see how hard you put you know that work into there too. You know what I mean? Like you can definitely see there's like that hard work is like kind of built into you, you know. And I feel sometimes like because I've I've read about like some of these cults, and I feel like they uh they kind of lose a lot of opportunities with people because like you have your talent, like you're hard working and they lose it because they try to make them follow like this particular path, but they're not really lack of better word, like using them to their best abilities because you you want to like attract people to make them stay and use like their talents and their skills. It doesn't seem like they do that, it's just it's this way, it's this way, you know, like that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Well to be fair, I think they didn't because I was so like like the idea is to be a perfect member, you have to be dead to yourself and kind of like the perfect member, obedient. And so they didn't see the side. They they think okay, like when I went to Alabama, I remember there's um some sisters there, and they were like looking at me like almost like kissing, like you know, like like looking at me, and me, like the real me, isn't quiet. And no, real me is as you see, I do a podcast, you know, I can talk. So the real me was like, yo, what's up? And so you know, they're like, Whoa, shoot, you know, like they like you know, started shaking, like, whoa, dang. Like he's he spoke back, like well, you know, they're not used to that. Uh so they they didn't see it because there was never a relationship, like in a in a loving relationship, you get to see a person's weaknesses, but you also get to see a person's talents, a person's gifts. They never had a relationship with me, and they had really they had like real they had a relationship with those who were you know talented. I mean, there are people who are like have have amazing talents, and they would use those talents, but they didn't take the time to do that to everybody. And so now when I started the podcast, it's like holy shit, who who is this guy? It's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

It's you, yeah. So tell us what you got going on, like your podcast, anything you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Yeah, so I have a podcast, it's called The Truth That Heals. I started off making this as kind of like a like a journal type. Um, I think I was watching the movie Avatar, maybe a few other movies, but I remember there are like scenes where like, and it's been a while, but like it's like all right, day one, or even like is it is it avatar, or maybe it's I am legend, or maybe both, where it's like day one, you know. Um yeah, I am legend, yeah. Yeah, so it's kind I kind of wanted to get that style on my um YouTube and podcast. I didn't know exactly what I was doing. I I didn't, you know, I was like, you know what, I don't give a fuck anymore because they don't they don't want me to talk. They say it's gossip, it's a sin. Well, fuck it. You know, I'm gonna put it out there and let everyone decide. But then it started evolving where people wanted to be guests, and I don't know how to interview people. So I feel like my first like year of doing it was just so cringe for me now because I didn't have communication skills, I was still mentally inside of the cult. I at least I was still kind of deprogramming, and so it was very hard. Also, just talking, you know, fear, it was just so much. Um, but has evolved where I have more guests. I do have solo episodes here and there, it just takes a lot of time. I do invite people to come on who can share maybe their experiences, other and it's not only about cults, I just want people to come on who can share their story, like it can be an obstacle, challenge, and maybe some either overcoming, or maybe some healing, or maybe it's just um some wisdom that they've learned, and ultimately, what is their truth that heals? And so I've had so many episodes that are uh already published. I have like 30 in the bank that I need to work on and edit and get out. I even had an amazing guest from uh a cat podcast. I can't remember the name. I had you, so I have to work on that one and get that out as soon as possible. But yeah, that's the podcast. That's kind of the flow. It's not a cult podcast, it's not just a me podcast, it's really a platform where people can come and share their truth, and hopefully it's not toxic. It's uh I have to be careful with some of the guests. Uh, but I also have a second podcast, it's called Creativity Worth Expressing, where I invite different artists, creatives, filmmakers, writers, um, actors, etc., where they can share their creative process, their creative journeys, how it all started, and the projects that they're doing, and ultimately, why is creativity important for them?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

I think, you know, I think honestly, you're just getting warmed up. I think like you have a really this is just my opinion for what it's worth. But I think you're gonna continue to grow and flourish like professionally and personally. I think you're gonna I think we're gonna see both your podcasts kind of bubble up pretty big. Thank you. Yours too. Uh I if I can get my my stuff together, yes. Um but yeah, I think um, and tell everybody how they can buy you a coffee, how they can support you a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

Yeah, you can all support me because I really need the help. Uh that'd be awesome. And you can do so by going to buymeacoffee.com slash truth that h seven. Again, that is buymeacoffee.com slash truth that h seven, and you can go ahead and buy me a coffee or maybe two or however many you want over there. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Thank you, Anthony, so much. I appreciate you coming on. And um I'm gonna cut it right here, but don't run away yet.