EP 112 Unlocking Inner Peace with Centering Prayer | Rich Lewis

0:00 Are you familiar with the concept of centering prayer? What about combining prayer with meditation? Well, today's guest is Rich Lewis, an author, speaker, and coach who has dedicated nearly a decade to daily practice of what he calls centering prayer. He's helped countless individuals unlock their true selves and experience profound inner transformation through the power of silence. You're listening to the new age human podcast, where we have mind expanding conversations around science, spirituality, and alternative health to help you unlock your true potential and thrive in a rapidly changing world.

0:41 My name is John Astacio and I've been in the health and wellness industry for over 10 years, helping professionals and entrepreneurs improve their mental and physical wellbeing using lifestyle changes and now immersive meditation. As an entrepreneur and truth seeker myself, my mission is simple help professionals and truth seekers like you achieve lasting transformation and deeper awareness so you can navigate uncertainty and live a purpose driven, fulfilling life. So if you've ever prayed or meditated before, or even thought of doing so, stay tuned. As we explore the transformative power of combining the two. And also we're going to discover practical techniques that you can start using today to elevate your life.

1:22 now with that said, let's get to the show. Welcome to the show rich. How's it going? Great. Great Thanks for having me on and good morning to you and your audience Yeah, good morning. Um, maybe you're listening from where they are, but good morning from me and you. So, right. So, um Centering prayer That's, that's a new phrase for me. Is that something you came up with? Or is something that you feel Like, uh, yeah, did you make that up or is that something that you you found i'm just what's going on there? No centering prayer. I I didn't create the term centering prayer is a silent prayer Meditation practice that and it was it was created actually in the Early 1970s, so there's actually three Trappist monks, so three Catholic priests, um, kind of came up with the idea of centering prayer.

2:19 One of them, Father William Manager, was reading a classic, I think it was a 12th century book called The Cloud of Unknowing, and as he read this book, book, um, that if you or I read, it might be kind of hard to understand and read, but he was reading it, and it kind of, a way of silently sitting with God, not verbally praying, but just sitting with God, kind of came to him, and we'll talk about how it, how you do it, but, and then he began interacting with the other two priests, Thomas Keating and Basil B. And they kind of refined the practice, rolled it out to clergy, and then really the masses and anyone that might be interested in sitting with God, um, rather than verbally talking to God.

3:06 And then about 10 years later in 1984, Thomas Keating created the Contemplative Outreach Organization. So it's ContemplativeOutreach. org, and it's really the main Centering Prayer, um, organization. So if you go to that site, you'll see a ton of resources on Centering Prayer. You'll see groups that practice Centering Prayer together in community via Zoom, or maybe even in a building, all over the U. S. as well as internationally. So it's a neat, neat organization. Site to go to for resources groups that practice as well as resources retreats and and and that type of stuff So the practice center and prayer that they created not me has been around about 50 years But the idea of sitting in silence and meditating with god is has been around for thousands of years and goes really All the way back to jesus.

3:55 So the idea of doing this is not a 50 year practice It's a couple, you know Thousands of year practice going back to Jesus and going back to the Old Testament as well. Essentially, uh, another way of doing something that's ancient in its form, right? Right, exactly. Perfectly stated. Cool. And, um, I like how you brought that back and you're like, well, it's referenced by this and this and this. So I'm like, oh, awesome answer. Um, you know, the, the thoughts that come to my mind and I want to, um, eventually get into how you found centering prayer. Um, but I, I, I do want to mention that there are some people that I, I've had conversations with where some people, um, are in fear of meditation.

4:43 And if you are, I guess more of a strict, uh, Christian or a strict Catholic, maybe you're in fear of meditation and thinking it's, it's different from prayer. Um, do you, are, do you feel comfortable touching up on that? Because I think that, um, there could be a lot of people just in the middle. Sure, sure. No, and how I refer, refer, refer kind of tell people about that is one, Jesus went off in silence to be alone with God and they surmise he didn't always talk, he just sat with God, particularly when he was in the desert fasting as they talk about in the New Testament, he needed to conserve energy so he would not have been talking, he would have been conserving his energy because he was fasting, he wasn't eating, he wasn't drinking, so he was going to conserve energy, he wasn't going to be running around and he probably wasn't even talking, he was just sitting.

5:34 So I tell people the idea of just sitting with God and being with God has been around for thousands of years and goes all the way back to Jesus. And it's talked about in the Bible where it talks about Jesus going off to be alone. Or even in the Old Testament, be still and know I'm God. I mean, that's what we're doing in Centering Prayer. We're being Or any type of contemplative practice like this, we're being still with God. We're just sitting with God and we're letting God pray in us. Just a different way of, I think of it as a reverse prayer. Instead of I'm praying, God's praying in me. I'm sitting and letting God nourish my soul and feed me what God knows I need.

6:18 And get, getting myself out of the way. I love that. I really do. Um, I'm all about that. If anybody knows me, I'm Heavy into, uh, suggesting, just calm your behind down and just connect with your inner self, which is that, that connection. And I like how you put that because there are people that are in fear of maybe something demonic pretending, right? And it's like, Oh yeah, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm your guy, you know? Here's some some answers. Um, have you had anybody say that? They're like, well, uh, you know, like I'm like, I don't want to say devil's advocate, but I'm just, um, I'm like thinking of people that I know that may be opposed to meditation and, um, let's say what you just said was, well, when you, you know, you allow God to pray within you, And how do you decipher between that and some, some thing that has, um, nefarious, uh, plans, like a poser type of thing?

7:27 Have you come across that conversation before? Yeah, I have. I would say, I think of it as my true self barometer. I mean, if it's telling me to do things that are, that I don't feel comfortable doing, peace and calm about, if it's telling me to do things that will harm me or harm others, if it's telling me to do things that really are not compassionate, empathetic, loving, um, then it's probably not God praying in me, it's probably me. And I, me thinking what I should do instead of listening to the inner wisdom with, within me. So that's, that's kind of how I would counter that, so to speak, is that you can, you can kind of tell what are these actions, compassionate, loving, empathetic, um, type of actions, caring actions, not harmful actions, or, or are they just very egotistical actions and, and hurtful actions and, and maybe harm others and maybe they're competitive.

8:26 Super competitive actions where, um, we're stopping people from getting things that they might need or want. Hmm. Yeah, and and I agree, right? And it may seem like a very like obvious answer like if you hear a voice and like hurt that person like now like, uh, Right, do unto others as you want to be done, you know, treat others like you would like to be treated. Right. Um, just simple things to sit with. Um, and I like the idea of when you add my personal experiences as as I go within right as I center in my unique way. Right. I, I noticed what, the more I know about myself, the more easier it is for me to know what isn't me.

9:12 And, and that has been like an addicting journey for me because we live in a world where there's a lot of people with a lot of opinions, um, telling us what the right way to do things are. And, um, that's why I love going within. I love The idea of centering yourself because now your path is like dead straight each time you do it, right? And I feel like you are on the path of doing very similar work And if not the same where you're helping people obviously center themselves So I definitely want to get into how you found this Center prayer like were you always that type of person to go within for answers like where did that come from?

10:02 Sure. I guess I've been, I found Centering Prayer in 2013. So prior to that, um, I probably, I was more in a search mode. I knew that maybe my prayer life or relationship with God really lacked depth. And I was really just on the surface. There was no depth to it. There was something missing, but I didn't know what it was. And I, and I discovered Centering Prayer in late 2013. I was simply perusing Amazon looking for a book to read, and I came across a book called um, Healing the Divide, Recovering Christianity's Mystic Roots by Amos Smith. And as I began reading the Kidnall version, which is what I purchased, it was, he talked about a practice called Centering Prayer that he had been doing for, I think, about a year about 15 years up until that point, and it immediately piqued my interest.

10:49 So I began continuing to read the book. I began practicing Centering Prayer for myself. I began looking at other authors that were Centering Prayer practitioners or wrote books about Centering Prayer. And I reached out to him and we began a back and forth email dialogue and then we became friends and to this day we talk about once a month. He's on the west coast, I'm on the east coast, but to this day we've now been friends for almost 10 years and kind of collaborate. He's the one that nudged me to write my book, Sitting With God. He had written that book, he was in the midst of writing a second book, and he challenged me to write a book and then kind of served as a helpful mentor.

11:30 in Centering Prayer as I began it, as well as in writing a book. So I guess I discovered Centering Prayer on Amazon. But internally, I probably knew I was always looking for, like, I always liked being in solitude. I always liked, I mean, I liked being with people too, obviously, but I liked, I didn't mind being alone. I didn't mind going on solo bike rides. I didn't mind walking in nature. I loved looking at the ocean. So I loved all of that type of stuff. But I just, Knew there was something missing. I loved all of that, and there was something deeper beyond all of that. And I found it in Centering Prayer. Interesting, and you, it seems like you were I'm doing a lot of, let's say, solitary things, right?

12:17 And not everybody can do that. Some people just need to be around noise. Um, but what about that wasn't enough for you to cause you to say, I'm, I need some, something next level. I'm very curious. I would, I would say I think I was just bored. I think I was, I knew that there was something deeper to my spiritual life and that I knew there was something more to God than I was giving, giving God the benefit. Um, so, so, and then initially I just began practicing silence. So actually even, even before Centering Prayer, I would just sit and, I had read some books by Karl McCullin.

12:58 He talked a lot about the power of silence. I don't remember him talking about any practices in his book, so I would just sit in silence. And at that time, I remember being brutal, and I would just set a timer for a minute, two minutes, three minutes, and I remember being extremely difficult. So I was glad I found Centering Prayer, because it was, gave me a tool or practice to sit in silence and open to God. So, um, so, so I guess it was, yeah, I was just looking to deepen my relationship with God. I, I was bored with my prayer life. I was bored with my relationship with God. I, I thought there was something more. I just didn't know what it was and I didn't know how to find it or dig deeper in the well of God, I'll call it.

13:39 Right. And you, um, Well, first I want to give you kudos to reaching out to that person that inspired you. And then now they're like a friend of yours, a mentor, which is really something to, I don't know what the word is, but I think it's really cool. Um, just because we, you know, when you pick up a book and it's an interesting subject matter and you're like, wow. And if it's one of those things where it, It has the ability to change dramatically change your trajectory in life, and then you get to meet the person that was responsible for that change for you. Oh, that's that's amazing. So I'm very happy for you with that.

14:22 Um, and I'm very curious about, uh, The technique of Centering Prayer, what makes this, um, unique and special? Sure. Well, I'll share how you do it then. With Centering Prayer, and Centering Prayer is considered, um, it is considered meditation, but it's also considered, you know, building and deepening your relationship with God. So it's meditation and a way of deepening your relationship with God. And we believe we're opening to the presence and actions of God within us. We don't believe we're God, but we believe God is within us and wants to be expressed through us and out into the world. So we're, we're opening to the presence and actions of God within us.

15:03 during Centering Prayer, and how you do it is you sit comfortably, or you can lie down if you have a bad back, close your eyes, and then interiorly, to begin your Centering Prayer sit, you introduce what we call a sacred word. It's usually one, two, or three syllables, so it could be love, it could be ocean, beach, it could be Jesus, and that, and that's really just signifying that you're now on Opening to the presence and actions of God within. And then as you're sitting there in your silent sit, when you begin engaging your thoughts, and what I mean by that is if you begin thinking about what you're going to do after your sit or the errands you have to do later in the day, or if you begin thinking about things you did before your sit, you realize you're not really sitting with God in the present moment, you're sitting with you and your thoughts and your planning and plotting.

15:51 So then you reintroduce that sacred word to let go of your, what we call your engaged thoughts, and then you even let go of the sacred word. So you don't, you don't use the word as a mantra, and there are mantra practices, and that's okay, Centering Prayer just is not a mantra practice. So you just use that word interiorly to come back to the present moment. when you notice you're engaging your thoughts. Sometimes you naturally catch yourself and you don't even need your word. Other times you catch yourself and you just kind of slip the word in to let go of your thoughts, and then you let go of the sacred word. And you just do that when needed during the duration of your sit. So it's kind of as simple as that.

16:33 So for me it made it easier to sit in the silence while I was writing. Because it was a way of, well, what do I do with my thoughts? So it made it easier for me. And it just made sitting with God, sitting in silence, a whole lot easier than just sitting in silence and not knowing, how do I do this? Hmm. There's a lot of. Well, there's definitely intention behind that with that sacred word. Where do you, um, choose to find your sacred words? Um, well, I, and I guess one thing you want to be careful, so like if it's, if you use beach, and you love the beach, and spending your whole silent sit, thinking about the beach, then that's the wrong word. The word really is just used to let go of your engaged thoughts and come back to the purpose of your sit, of opening to the presence and actions of God.

17:20 So you'll want to use a word that will work for you, but it's not something you're meditating about during the sit. So if it's beach, as I said, and you're meditating on the idea of the beach and your upcoming vacation, and you can't wait for it, then you probably want to use a different type of word. But I think you just. Pick, pick a word that's meaningful to you. You can even pick an image, like I, uh, some people pick words if they're auditory people. Um, I kind of quickly realized I'm more of a visual person, so I actually picture a, a, a G icon in my head, and come back to this icon, this kind of the, picture in my head.

18:01 Some people are more, um, physical people, so they'll use their breath to come back to the present moment. And then some people are worried they'll fall asleep during Centering Prayer. Or, at least Amos, yeah, he's not worried about falling asleep, but he was, he's the author I mentioned earlier. He actually, We'll practice it with his eyes open, um, and he stares at a spot, kind of on the ground. We'll have to ask him if he still does that, but that's what he had initially told me. He keeps his eyes open, he doesn't close his eyes. And some people don't close their eyes too, because they think they'll fall asleep. Hmm. Especially if you're lying down, right? Right, right. And if you do fall asleep, maybe you just need to do your sit at a different time.

18:43 Like maybe you're doing a si Some people might do a silent sit later in the evening, or close to bedtime, and maybe that's really the wrong time, and you should do it earlier anyhow. So that clues you into that, well I'm falling asleep, so maybe I need to move my sit. to a different time. Right. Have you ever fallen asleep? I probably have. Um, and, and I think that's okay. And I think, and God has a sense of humor. I think God would probably, you needed that little nap and, and I think God can still pray in us while we're sleeping. But no, I guess my objective is not centering prayers, not my nap time. But if for some reason I would fall asleep, I think God has a sense of humor and God realizes, well, Rich probably needed this, this 10 minute or 20 minute nap time.

19:29 I'm still going to pray in him anyhow, so. But is it, but no, as if it was a practice, I don't consider it a nap time. So I would readjust it if, if I feel like I'm going to fall asleep. Or I would get up and move, like before you're centering prayer sit, maybe you do something, you read, you move, you walk around a little bit just to get yourself awake and ready. Because really it's more of an aware, it's more of an awareness, you're really sitting with God and you're letting go of thoughts, but you're really kind of fully, trying to become fully aware of the present moment and being with the present moment. Yeah, I like that. And how long would you say is the average time you would recommend someone do a Centering Prayer?

20:13 Sure. Well, for beginners, so for the idea of this as being brand new, I would say take baby steps. So I would say start with five minutes. And most people find that that's not that long. Like I've done some talks for church groups via Zoom in the past, and we'll do a five minute sit together after I talk about the practice and share about it. And most people will say, That wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. It went rather quickly. So I would say start with five minutes and then, and then slowly, you know, increments of a few minutes at a time. If you can get yourself up to 20 minutes, that would be great. So like starting your day with a 20 minute sit is just. Powerful way to begin your day and it might mean all right.

20:55 I set my alarm like it I might get up 20 minutes earlier and that's okay I think you'll the benefits of it or are powerful if you practice this type of practice Look back after 30 days or 60 days or 90 days that it really is a wonderful way to start your day Yeah, and I I agree with the whole starting your day with that because it Start you know you it's like a reset a refresh exactly especially if you had like a nightmare, right? And then um Starting at like those small increments makes a lot of sense. I had to do that when I started to do Meditation sitting in silence myself because in my mind prior was insanely non stop scattered and Just had a difficult time in and I Starting.

21:51 I had to start with like five seconds than 10. You know, like I couldn't even do a minute. Um, but I do feel like special things start to happen after the five, maybe even 10 minute mark. And I'm curious, what's your experience when you go past 5, 10 minutes? Um, if, if there's anything that you would like to share and then as well, I wanted to add the question. Do you, what do you add to that? Um, because there's, There's the word prayer involved, so you ask questions, I'm curious about like the next step after the 5 10 minute mark. Sure. Well, now during Centering Prayer, we're really not doing anything other than the exact practices as I shared.

22:35 So when we engage our thoughts, we're letting go of our thoughts, so we're not clinging to thoughts, we're not meditating on things, we're not seeing where that thought takes us. So we really are just letting go of whatever it is, even if it's a great idea comes up, we're going to trust that outside of our sit, if this is a great idea that we should be taking action on, it's going to come back up outside of my center and prayer sit. So during that time, it's really 100 percent devoted to just sitting with God and doing the practice and not engaging my thoughts. not stopping and writing it down on a piece of paper if I thought I had just a wonderful aha moment. Now, outside of your sit, that's what you can do, and I'll do some journaling and think about, well, what, what, what was God feeding me during this sit?

23:22 Or, or, or even just journaling in general, where I could be either just trying to motivate myself for the upcoming day, or I could be trying to just, I've done things that I think God wants me to do, or I might, or I might just vent and I need to get things off of my chest, but I'll do all that outside of center and prayer. And I like, I think journaling and meditation are full complimentary practices because outside of your meditation. You can do journaling and jot down your ideas and thoughts or even just vent or, and as I said, or motivate yourself. Like, I'm going to have a great day. I'm looking forward to today. It's going to be productive. And I'll do that to myself because I work from home. It's a remote job.

24:03 And sometimes I know I have like six tasks that must get done. So I'll, I'll, affirmed to myself, I'm going to have a great day, I'm going to get the top three things done today, and I'm excited that that's going to happen. But I'm doing all that out after Centering Prayer, not during Centering Prayer. But, and I'll do some interesting things with Centering Prayer before I go into it. For example, when I'm, before I, I'll close my eyes, and I will visualize like, how I think my day will go and the things that will get done today. And then, but then I let go of them and begin my silent sit. So I like to do that as part of my sit, but I don't consider that my centering prayer.

24:43 I consider that my kind of my visualization of how I want my day to go. But then I let go of it, give it to God, and just do my centering prayer practice. Okay. Okay. And I like how you're like, I'm getting ready for the day. It's going to be a good day. I got my list together. I got my to do list ready to go. I really agree with the journaling for sure. And, um, the other question I had was what, um, let's say, I know you've been doing this for, for a while. What are some of the fruits of your labor of. This practice.

25:24 Sure. And I think, one, the neat part is they're, they're unique for each person. So as they begin doing this type of practice and they look back or they ask people to look back, look at them, different things may happen. So for me, you know, I, I think what has spawned after Centering Prayer, all of a sudden I published a book, you know, in 2020, I created my website, silenceteaches. com, which has a weekly meditation on it. I do. One on one coaching to help people. I do some speaking. I've been on a ton of podcasts. So it has spawned, spawned this, for example, just sharing the idea of being alone with God and, and how powerful it is.

26:07 It spawned that. But it's really, I guess, when I look back at some of the fruits, I'm a much more calm and confident person that I was. And not that I didn't want to live life, but I'm more excited to live life and see what, what's next, what's next for me and the things that I can do and, and experience. And I'm, I think I'm a better listener. I'm still work, I'm work in progress, but I think I'm better at listening to people and giving them the space they need and just listen and not judge and not be critical, but just listen to what they just said and have a nice conversation with someone. So a lot of that confidence. Um, calmness, empathy, better listening skills, and I think, and I would say even a willingness to get out of my comfort zone and do and try things that I never did before, which are many of the things I'm doing now.

26:58 The idea of jumping on a podcast or guest speaking scared the heck out of me, and now they don't, and it's because, it's definitely because of, and it's not because of Centering Prayer, it's because of prayer. God centering prayer is just a practice that has opened me up to God and then listening to God and the nudges that God is saying, now go, these are the things you need to go do. Hmm. And I, um, I like how you said that, uh, the fact that you are being more active and you're empowering people to. Establish that connection and get to that place, right? I mean getting on stage.

27:39 What is that like the second biggest fear? under uh being burnt alive like Public speaking is like way up there Before you did centering prayer before you you established a deeper connection with god. Um, did you ever do public speaking? Not a whole lot and it scared me and, and, and now, you know, with the post COVID world or even during COVID, a lot of it's via zoom, but that's still scary because you could be speaking in front of five people, 10 people. I was invited to speak at a summit a couple of years ago and it was 400 people. And then I, and that scared me, but then I thought, well, just think of it as no different than I'm speaking to a group of five people is just 400 people.

28:23 But, um, yes, so it did. The whole, that, that idea scared the heck out of me, whether you're doing it live, whether you're doing it live, or whether you're doing it on Zoom. And, and I did, and I, because I spoke in front of some church groups in my local community initially, and that was as I began practicing Centering Prayer. I got, I would kind of reach out to churches and see if they were interested in learning more about this practice, and some would have me come in and speak either before the service or during like an adult faith formation class. And that That was live and that was, you know, five people or 20 people, whoever wanted to join. But yes, so I was, it scared the heck out of me. But I knew it was something that I needed to just push through.

29:05 And now, and I think I still get nervous, but not, not as terrifying as I was, you know, 10, 15 years ago. Yeah, and centering yourself is, is major for that. Um, yeah, it's just. You know, the sweaty palms, the, uh, my heart would normally just like thud like crazy. Like you can probably audibly hear it and, um, just doing that some, a similar practice of just, you know, meditation, sitting in silence, getting to know who you are a little bit closer. Um, has really helped me a lot. So I definitely feel for you as far as like the public speaking thing, the talking to audiences and, and it's just like you have more patience with yourself.

29:53 Right. And, and, uh, there's less, if your mind was a movie theater theater of thoughts and opinions, there's just a lot less people in there shouting. And, um, When there's like that calmness, yeah, I completely agree, right? It's, it's like, even though you may still have that nervousness inside of you, getting up and standing in front of people, because you have a message, especially now that this. Message that you're sharing is part of what is enabling you to do so much more It's in perfect alignment and i'm sure it's a lot easier because there's more passion behind it instead of um, Selling someone's product because you gotta get paid type of thing.

30:34 It's more like this is your message message. This is your mission Um, and I love that and I totally see how that how powerful that is when it comes to Something that popped up in my mind. Um, which is in center prayer um A lot of it, from what you're telling me, is you giving it up to God, right? And it's not as in the intention is that connection. Um, how would you compare that or how what what do where do affirmations sit in that? Because I know a lot of people do a lot of affirmations.

31:15 And I'm I'm very curious. How, how do those play a role in that? If, if at all? If or if it's just No, and I'm a, and I, I'm a big believer in affirmation, so I, I often will read my affirmations to God before my centering prayer sit, and then I let them brew with God while I do my centering prayer sit. So I, I'm a big, I am a big believer in affirmations. I like to just bring them to God, let them brew with God, and then partner with God on them. And then, you know, if, if the affirmation. If I'm, there's, you know, I have an inner peace and calm about it, if it doesn't harm me or harm others, and even if it's outside of my comfort zone, then I probably should continue on the affirmation and, and, and what it, what it represents.

32:01 But if for some reason there's not an inner peace and calm about it, or there's not an excitement about it, or it's harming me or someone else, then I need to remove it or, or tweak it so that it, you know, becomes more back in line. So I, I do believe in affirmations. I do use them. I just think of it as I'm going to partner with God on my affirmations and make sure together that's what I should, you know, we should be working on, um, together. I think of it as I sit with God and then I get up and walk with God outside of my centering prayer sit. So it's not, it's about, Again, tomorrow morning or I practice twice a day. So it's not God. I'll see you later in the afternoon It's God comes with me and partners with me on my everyday life and things that I need to do So I think of God as a partner with me how to see you twice a day type of deal Which is actually pretty cool, right and I can totally see people doing the light the latter right of like, all right I'll see you later, you know, but they forget that God is with you.

33:01 God comes with you and partners with you That is a constant presence. Now, with that being said, your audience, your. The people that you work with, the people that you help out with, is it, um, mostly people that are Christian or Catholic or do you have a mixture of clients? Because I'm very curious because there's different ways of getting clarity and, um, a lot of what the center prayer, um, circles around is your connection with God. So I'm curious how that works with you and your clients and whatnot. Sure. And one thing I like to say about Centering Prayer is, you know, come as you are with whatever you believe.

33:44 So whatever, wherever you're at with God, come and see what happens. But I guess as I look at some of my coaching clients, they're probably All were sort of in the Christian realm, but that, but that's a huge realm too, from there's, from one side right to the left of Christianity, and even actually real evangelical people, I, I guess I, I don't think I'm coaching, because they're, they're, they're a little fearful of this, and is this, is this a practice that makes sense? Is it something I should even be doing? Um, but I guess that when I look at my coaching clients that I've coached that they fall into three categories Either one if they're beginners They recognize that this is a practice That could be powerful and could be very helpful in their life and help help them connect with god So they want to be they want to learn how to do it and be held accountable to starting a long term practice the second person is they've been practicing, but they think that they're missing something.

34:43 They're not connecting to the work that God wants them to do. They're not connecting to their true self, the person God wants them to be, and the actions God might want them to take. So they want to really go deeper in, in their Centering Prayer practice and live what they think their purpose is. They think they're, they're missing the mark, and they're not living into their true self. And then the third type of person I've actually coached, um, and I'm not Catholic, but I've coached a couple priests where I had one priest a couple years ago say, I, this, I know this is a practice that can help me and I, and I, and I need it to nourish my soul and I'm going to burn out if I don't. do this. So I want you to hold me accountable to starting this practice so that it will help me in servicing the people that I have to service.

35:31 So I've helped people that just know it's vital, so a priest or a pastor. It can help them and, and be important to them so that they don't burn out. If they don't feed their own souls, they're going to burn out and be of no use to the people they're helping. So I've, when I look back at some of the different people I've coached, they've fallen into one of those three categories, which has been kind of, kind of neat, kind of neat considering I'm not Catholic, but, but a Catholic priest felt very comfortable, you know, coming to me and, and. Saying, hold me accountable. Right, which is very interesting. Very interesting. And it speaks volumes too.

36:13 Yeah. And it was funny, I took a funny approach where I said, if you're okay with it, I'm just going to text you. Like, even though I, in between sessions, if people need something, I, I encourage them, feel free to email me. You don't have to wait to our next session. But in his case, I said, if you're okay with it, I'm going to text you, you know, in between our sessions, cause I'm going to hold you accountable. And one way will be, you're going to be getting texts from me to make sure you're, are you doing your practice? How did it go? Did you do it? And different nice ways to nudge him and then follow up with him. So in his case, and he said he was open to it, I was texting him. Reminder, reminder, right?

36:56 Um, you know, you can actually do a timed text. I don't know if you've seen that on now, the phones are getting pretty nuts. You can schedule it. Um, yeah, yeah. And I'm thinking, I'm like, Yeah, imagine having like all these clients and like following up like just time time release that sucker. Um, This way you don't have to like, wait, wait, did I remind this guy? That's it. That's pretty cool. So is there now you have a book right the And I want to say it correctly, sitting with God, a journey to your true self through centering prayer. Does that book, um, highlight your personal journey?

37:41 And, uh, I just, I'm just curious for anybody that's curious about the book, if you can break it down a little bit. No, it does. And that's, that's one thing I wanted to be a little bit personable and vulnerable in the book. So I did talk about how I discovered Centering Prayer. I did talk about how it's changed me and healed and transformed me. So I did talk a lot about that and share how it has done that. And then, of course, in the book I talk about, you know, how you do it. I talk about your true self. I do talk, obviously, about Jesus in two different chapters where I'm just talking about the humanity of Jesus and in another chapter I just talk about kind of what the scholars, because I thought it would be interesting just what can the scholars tell us about Jesus and his human life, you know, over a thousand years ago, or two thousand years ago, not a thousand.

38:28 Um, so the, yeah, the book really shares my journey, shares the practice for new people, shares. to practice to help people go deeper into their true self. And then it does just talk a little bit about Jesus and kind of the, what we call the Jesus Paradox. Amos referred to as the Jesus Paradox in his book, and I shared a little bit about that in my book where Jesus is God, is at once God and human. So that type of, that type of thing. topics were in my book, and I just made it an easy to read book. So the chapters are short in between, in the chapters, you'll see a subheading and you'll know, okay, what, what am I going to read about under that subheading before I get to the next one? And then at the end of the chapter, I have questions for reflection and discussion in case, in case, People want to use it as a book study.

39:14 So I just wanted to make it an easy book to read and a book that could be used in a book study if people wanted to kind of read it one chapter per week and talk about it before they move on to the next chapter. Hmm. So, are you going to write another book? I am. I am. I'm in the midst of writing a book. Another book. It's kind of in edit mode with the same publisher. So I need to, uh, kind of discipline myself from an edit mode because writing is, can be fun. And then editing is not as fun as writing, but I have to like tell myself. This is fun and just fine tune this and put it, you know, get it where it needs to be and then get it over to the publisher.

39:58 So I don't have a deadline or anything like that, but I do want to kind of wrap it up because I've spent some time and I've written, I think it's about 40, 000 words at this point. I just need to put it, put it in the shape it needs to be in and try to get it over to the publisher probably by the end of the year. Kind of my own internal goal. Hey, yeah, yeah. 40, 000 words. Um, I don't, I'm not used to speaking in terms of several thousand words. That's just, that's, that, that's a lot of book right there. Um, can you give us like a hint on subject matter or you want to keep it hush hush? Um, I, I, I guess how centering prayer can help us deal with the daily news is, is, is a publisher said, try that slant where how can this type of practice help people deal with the daily news?

40:48 So that's kind of what the book, I go into various different daily news you might encounter. Um, whether it's news or whether your own personal news and how this type of practice can be so helpful for that. Well, yeah, and we're, we're in the age of information, right? And then you have AI. And so it's like, what's real, what's not. And I do. Feel that is it? Yeah, great timing for the book. Great idea. Um, because Centering yourself is Needed more than ever Um, I feel a lot of people can agree with that because of distractions, because of there's so many options, so many distractions, so many people trying to share their opinions, right?

41:41 And this is huge for that. What are your thoughts on like, what's, instead of going too deep, I'm just curious, like, where do you, when you meet people, where are they when it comes to, um, dealing with, you know, All this information that's happening. What are you seeing out there? Some people I guess they become Terrified of the daily news they and they like I guess personally. I I don't really watch the news I I mean once in a while scan maybe usa today on on on the internet, but Or I'll look at the sports section. I love sports.

42:21 But I think some some people they they'll watch it and it scares the heck out of them and they become very anxious um, and I even think of you know, the idea of and you know wars are awful like when the different wars whether with iran or afghanistan or obviously with russia, it was almost like I remember i'd come home and I would after day of work Put the TV on and I'm watching war. I'm eating dinner and watching war. And then finally I'm saying, this isn't healthy for me. Like, I don't want to make that my day where I'm working and then I'm eating dinner and watching a war on TV. I mean, it's horrible it is that there's wars going on. But so I, I realized I need to shut this off.

43:04 Um, but no, I, so I think some people don't know how to shut it off and then they become extremely anxious and the news is just terrifying and terrifies them and it makes them scared to live life is what I think some, some people do and they, and they, they, I think they need to shut it off otherwise they're going to, they're not, they're going to become extremely unhealthy mentally. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with, with the traditional. It's like, uh, it's hard to digest and believe what you're seeing just because you know that a lot of it is entertainment based, right?

43:45 I mean, you get paid for views, and so you have to position things a certain way, and so it's like, it's very hard to even decipher that, and it's easy to get lost. In the sauce, so to speak, where you have this list of news outlets and you have, okay, these are the mainstream ones. These are the not so mainstream and then following this person. And then I got this person and then you're, you're, you're putting the pieces together and at some point it's just like, all right, so how does this affect me now and what can I do about it? And like you said, It's good to just shut it off. Give yourself a break and the same thing with some we look like facebook So I think some people like when I grew up there was no facebook.

44:28 I'm i'm 58 So I didn't grow up in the internet age But then it'd be you'd be we'd be we didn't live in that world initially and I think it's it's created a lot of drama So for the younger people it's created a lot of drama Drama on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and LinkedIn, even LinkedIn. You see a lot of LinkedIn is, I guess, supposed to be for networking for work, but all of a sudden it becomes very political and all kinds of stuff are on, on LinkedIn too. So I think, I think I remember my, uh, one of my sons, I think he purposely took himself, he's younger. He took himself off of Facebook at one point because it was too much drama and it was too stressful. So it's like you're instantly connected and some people are sharing so much about themselves or what about themselves or how they feel, whether it's sadness or anger, so it's, it's a whole different world.

45:21 In some ways, I like Facebook because I can connect to friends and family that are, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of miles away. So I use it. that way to connect with people, see, get, see pictures, see what people are doing, but some people use, can use it in unhealthy ways. And that's where it becomes, it becomes really hard, I think, for people, and they need to take a break from it. And you'll see people say that I'm taking a two week break from Facebook. I don't know if they go because they're Too connected. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree And so you stopped completely with facebook or and or is it just kind of there just the news? No facebook, I guess I use facebook, but it's more the news.

46:03 I I probably I I disconnect from the news I don't really watch the news and I don't really watch a whole lot of the headlines because I realized it wasn't It was just feeding me with Fear and worry and anxiety. So I, I slowed it down and once in a while tap into it, but not on an everyday basis at all. Not reading the news headlines and watching the news on a daily basis because I knew it was not, it was unhealthy for me and how I was becoming anxious and worried. Yeah, definitely not healthy for sure. I commend you for that. I do the same thing. I, I, I just have, um, Some resources that I feel are credible and even then I just take it with a grain of salt and move on and really focus like 80 percent of what I can do to better my situation, to better other people's situations around me with the slight awareness of what's going on so that I can just be aware from afar.

47:06 Um, I agree with that. Yeah, for sure. And and it's unfortunate right you have this amazing tool called social media, but people are just going bananas And uh, you just gotta sort you gotta unsubscribe To the to the a lot of the negativity out there. That's not just unnecessary Um, so as we uh as we wrap up, I wanted to well one for your time I think we spoke about a lot of really interesting just perspectives around connecting with your with yourself and You Just getting to that quiet place, even if it is ironically very simple, it's very potent and powerful As you have shared with how it has affected you and your life You are working on that second book and you did start to touch on some things that you were doing now Which is the weekly meditations Feel free to share and elaborate on that for anybody that wants to connect with you Sure.

48:02 I mean the best thing to do is just to come to my site silenceteaches. com When you subscribe you'll get a free ebook That it's very simple ebook that you can read about centering prayer and then if you find that you're You Further intrigued, my book is on my website. So if you want to further explore my book, Sitting With God, A Journey to Your True Self Through Centering Prayer, you can find it on my website as well. So the easiest and best way to see what I'm up to and to get my weekly meditations is just to subscribe and click the link. And I have a contact page too, so some people will contact me and reach out, and I love to interact, so I will, I read any incoming emails I get, and I, and I respond rather quickly, because I enjoy interacting with people.

48:47 Sweet. And especially if you're in the business of people, of course, interaction is awesome. It's it's key, right? Can't can't can't not be a people person. So that that type of work is not for everybody. So I appreciate you doing your thing. Um, and everybody that's listening, if you want to connect, connect with rich, um, you All that like the information is going to be in the show notes anyways, too, if you're really bad at spelling Um, and um as far as like, you know, anybody that's been listening throughout the entire episode. Thank you. Thank you for listening Um, you know Please like and subscribe and share with a friend if you feel that this episode not only impacted you but could impact another person With that said rich Thanks for coming on, man.

49:31 I appreciate you. No, thanks for having me on. And hopefully this was helpful for your community. So thanks so much