# 84 Red Light Therapy: Former Athlete to Healing Innovator | John Graham

0:00 red light therapy is as a pain management tool. Right. It's natural. It's not evasive. I want to get people away from drugs. If you can fix yourself on a cellular level. That's where you're going to start seeing some long lasting change. I've seen them healed and have no pain with devices that are not even a hundredth of the power of what of what I've created. Do you want to try out? And I was like, yeah, I was just, let's go. let's do it. Yeah. Hurry up. Savage. I'm a savage man. Let's go. All right. Welcome to the new way to in podcast. Let me host Jonathan Astacio. And today we're talking with John Graham, who is a season certified master trainer and leader in the fitness industry with over 15 years under his belt.

0:43 We'll discuss his experiences with sports and fitness injuries and explore how he's leveraging red light therapy to enhance health benefits and improve athletic recovery. Now, before we begin, if you want to be alerted to more content and you like what you're seeing when see more, just like, and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and send feedback and questions via new age, human. com. Now with that said, let's get to the show. Right. John Graham. Thank you for coming to the show. How's it going, man? Thank you. Yeah, I really, um, obviously, I very, very much appreciate the opportunity to share. It's a big help. Um, I'm obviously running a business. I've gone through so many grinds.

1:24 So whenever I'm able to share on a platform, it's always much appreciated. I'm getting access to your audience, to your listeners. You know, you've built that trust and I'm very glad that you've transferred that trust over to me and I'm able to share. Thank you. Yeah, for someone that has some innovative technology and maybe alternative health and you're like a double whammy. I'm like, Oh, we got to get this guy on. I am definitely interested in getting into what you're working on now, but before we go into it, I want to get into what you were doing before you started working on this What you're doing now, you know, you, you started like with the technology, the inventions, the alternative health, um, let's unpack that you're, you're an athlete.

2:14 What's, what started your journey? Yeah, I mean, I guess, uh, if where it all started was a skinny boy with red hair, white skin, you know, freckles, you can imagine not, not much going for him and he's thinking like, geez, I need to get my shit figured out here. I need to like, I need to, um, you know, plant my flag. Who am I? What's my purpose? So I, I gravitated towards the gym, you know, when you're building muscle, you're putting on the, you know, these, this muscle you're putting on armor and the armor protects that insecure, little, little scared, uh, unconfident boy that I was. Um, and, and this is like, oh, you know, over all the years, you know, competing, having a lot of trials, uh, lots of injuries, you know, um, I've sort of identified, you become more self aware and you kind of track back where, where your whole journey came from and you sort of understand More about the hero's journey that we all have.

3:11 Um, but yeah, like when I, when I went into bodybuilding and I was competing, I met a lot of bodybuilders and some of these guys were very famous, very competent, like very well known, you know, uh, champions. But I remember getting to know them very intimately. You and you, you realize that there, there's like, there's a, there's there, they're just protecting that little child, right? Yeah. Cause you train together, you boost each other up. Come on, get going. And you realize that they were not very, very confident. And, um, I kind of realized like, wow, all the, all these bodybuilders are like that. All these, the bigger these guys are, the smaller, the little teddy bears inside. So, you know, going back to me, that's very much how I was.

3:52 I kind of realized like, well, that's how I was. That's how I started. So, you know, going through. Going through, um, you know, my history and going back. I obviously got very fit. I wanted to compete. I wanted to show how, um, you know, how I could dominate in something. It's in an activity in a sport. So I got into rugby. Um, my, uh, my coach at the time, he sort of said I had a lot of promise. He said, you know, keep doing what you're doing and you could be going into the leagues, you know. Um, and as an Australian, I, um, you know, Australians need to play cricket. They surf or play rugby. You got to do one of these things, right? That's, that's the Aussies, what the Aussies do. Um, so being a good rugby player kind of was something I wanted to be kind of to help my, um, you know, my Aussie identity, hang out with the boys, have the, have some beers, you know, and then play a bit of, you know, get, get some rugby on.

4:45 But, um, I remember my first tour going out. I popped my shoulder and had like a micro fracture on the on my shoulder bone. Um, which is obviously really, uh, was a real downer because, um, tour when you're on tour, you're over your, you know, you've, you've left your club, you're going to play against other clubs and you're with the whole team and it's your, you know, you've all flown flown over. You've all, you know, you've kind of you're all like in this jolly mode, camaraderie mode, and then you're the guy that gets get seriously injured. And it was, I mean, the medics on the field couldn't fix it. I had to go to a hospital, which is a real, real pain. But, um, after, after about six months of rehabbing that I went back out and I popped the other shoulder wasn't as bad of an injury, but it basically was like, It was very clear, like, don't play rugby.

5:36 This isn't your sport, you know? So I was like, where, you know, where am I going to go from here? I need to play something. I need to do something. I need to compete. I need to keep, you know, this is my identity, right? You're, you're messing with, I got to figure myself out here. So I went into CrossFit, which was, um, uh, it was quite trendy at the time. It was getting, you know, it was becoming, you know, everyone wanted to compete in. It was kind of a, the new thing. Is it a sport or is it not a sport? It is a sport, you know, you know, it's, you know, it's, It was very like, um, CrossFit is still is. It's very like, um, tribe, tribe mentality, you know, you would gather with your, with your other fellow trainees and you support your, you know, your local box or whatever it was.

6:19 Um, but I just want to compete. I was very interested in the competitive side because it was You know, people that were competing in CrossFit were considered the beasts, the savages. Right. So I was like, yeah, that'll be me. I'll do that. But, um, just, you know, it's, it's like, it's like gym workouts, but in a sport format with a leaderboard and scores is kind of the, it's, it's done it, but it's, it is just basically gym workouts. Right. But, um, it's high volume, high load. If you're doing, you know, If you're doing a, um, a CrossFit workout and you're competing, it isn't just about doing a lot of reps very fast. You, you also have to lift heavier weights, which kind of makes it the competitive side, like where, where you're, you know, competing in the, in the top tiers is when there's a lot of weight added to those high number, you know, um, workouts.

7:05 Right? That does sound like a sport because you have a score. I guess you could technically call something a sport if you have a scoreboard because like there's teams. That's right. There's teams and who's, you know, by making the top score, you then progress on to the next, the next thing. Right. And then the bottom ones get left out. Right. That's, it's a good, it's a, it's a format that, um, now is obviously extremely popular, but, um, yeah, my knees weren't liking it. They basically. My, especially my left knee, um, after a while, it just was damaged so much that even to sit down. Um, Um, for an extended period of time, say 15, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, the knee would get really, really sore and I would have to straighten it out.

7:49 I have to lubricate it. Um, I would always be wearing different bandages. I was using heat therapy, cold therapy. Um, I was, I was trying to always just keep the joint lubricated because how it would get sore is if it was just stationary, if you would kind of, and especially obviously with, with the cold weather, right? Kind of like, you know, it was a lot, a bit of arthritis inside in that knee. Um, But, um, um, but then, yeah, so that basically took me out of CrossFit. And then during that time, I fell in love with boxing. And I remember, um, where was I think it was in Shanghai. Yeah, I was in Shanghai, China. And I was seeing a friend he was like an architect for He was an architect for a big Dubai firm.

8:31 And I was, I was quite, I opened up many gyms. I had like six gyms that I opened up and a lot of them had a combat side to it. So I was very familiar with, with, um, combat, but I would from primarily do wrestling, I was more into the wrestling side, the MMA is every MMA was, was another thing that everyone was talking about. So. But he was into boxing. I remember going to his, his studio and there was a, um, a coach, like a famous Dutch coach, and there was like a fight on and she was like, Oh, do you want to, do you want to sign up? Do you want to try out? And I was like, yeah, I was just, let's go. let's do it. Yeah. Hurry up. Savage.

9:11 I'm a savage man. Let's go. But I remember that fight. I won that fight and I was like, Whoa, this is now, this is my thing. Like. It's like when you play golf, you know, when you play golf, you have, you know, you got 18 holes. All you need to do is shoot two good holes and you somehow think that golf is your sport. You know, it's like, you know, when you, it's like you hit one and it's good. And you're like, um, this is, it's the most amazing feeling. And then it's like bad shot, bad shot, bad shot, bad shot. And then it's one good shot. And you're like, I'm still got it. Right. It's You forgot about all the other horrific decisions and bad shots. That's funny.

9:52 Yeah, I just somehow got it in my head like boxing. Yeah, this is it. This is, and I mean, I was, I was, I was pretty, I was, I was good for my weight from, you know, for the level that I was fighting and for, you know, where I came from, but, um, doing amateurs and fighting for a number of years, I started to get headaches and I would have like a point in my head here would really hurt. And it would, you know, sort of start to affect my eye and I was like, Oh, that's weird. And then it would come to my back. It was these little points. It was like someone was pushing their finger into my, um, into my brain. Um, and then I went, yeah, I went to the doctor. I was like, you know, just, let's just have a check. Let's just make sure everything's in order.

10:33 And he saw that there was a tumor in my head Oh, he said it was caused by micro traumas to the brain. Because he said, like, did you fall when you were a kid? Did you have, like, a serious fall or injury? Did you, were you in a car accident? Um, and I was like, no, no, it's not. I mean, I, I, I just do boxing. And he was like, well, yeah, that's probably if you were. If you get hit a lot, you're creating micro traumas and this tumor's developed. It's not benign, it's just, it's growing to your brain and it could kill you. Um, and we need to get it out because as it grows it gets difficult to remove this, this tumor and it's pushing itself into your brain. Um, and I was like, well, how long? And he was like, well, like I don't know how long, but you need to get it done this year.

11:16 This year we need the surgery done. So I had this surgery finished and it came out, it was like the size of, you know, the top of my thumb. It was about that big and I remember thinking like, wow, that's a, that was not supposed to be there. Um, but, um, after that he was just like, the doctor told me like, do not do any, you know, contact sports, impact sports, you're just not conditioned for it. Uh, and then I kind of had a bit of a downer, you know, like wasn't feeling, you know, I was like, well, what's my thing then? But, um, I found bodybuilding and bodybuilding is very safe. It's bodybuilding is just dieting. It's just dieting. Right. And I, you know, I had a lot of bodybuilder friends growing up.

11:59 You know, I had some, you know, famous female champions, you know, that, you know, actually quite a few females that were, um, that were competitive. I used to train with a lady, a Ukraine lady who was like, Had like 30 competitions under her belt and She was like the the male version of me like we were whatever way I lifted she would lift like she would do And you're a big dude. I mean, I'm just seeing from your Oh, you can imagine can only imagine, was. She was, she was a big girl. But um, but yeah, it's fun because you don't, you, you, it's very low, low injury. You just take care of your body, you know, just diet.

12:40 And I never thought of going in and being big and being the biggest guy. I just wanted to come in, you know, and represent myself as someone who is very cut, very lean. Um, and my first competition, I did, uh, I came second place in my category, which was good. It was like an MPC level event. So it was actually pretty like, Whoa, maybe this is my thing. Um, and I got really into it and I did four competitions back to back, uh, for seven weeks, which, um, Yeah, you're not, you're not supposed to do it like that. You're supposed to do like one competition at the beginning of the year, maybe another one, and then you, then you de load for a year and you maybe do one at the end of the year. Wow. And you've I remember the last competition I did.

13:21 a Um, you get what's called a salt rebound, like a water rebound, sorry. And because you, you've, you've burnt, you've got rid of all the fat and now you're trying to get rid of all the water. You're trying to dry so that when you look at the muscle, you don't see any, there's no liquid. It's just must skin and muscle, right? It's like this. And, um, this. So when you're drying your body out and you're like next competition, next competition, next competition, you're going through a large period of time where you're dry. You're you're basically what happened. My body, it just, it just gave up. So I had like a water rebound and I started to bloat and my neck really got big and puffy with like, it's like it was swollen and you know, my eyes got really big.

14:06 And my, my, my, my wrists, my ankles, everything kind of bloated out and I was, um, and this happened like this, the, the, the peak week before the weekend. Right. Which is the competition. That's when it started to get really bad. And, uh, I was like, damn, I can't, I can't compete like this. Like I'm bloated. I look like a, you know, I look, I look like a, someone who's got, I look like I've got a disease, like some, something serious. I was You know, and, uh, but I was like, Oh, I could, I could, you know, it might go away. It might go away. And I kept trying all these things to get the, the water out. And in the end, um, I took a diuretic and a diuretic is, is a pill you take to, to help you get rid of water.

14:48 They're very, very dangerous pills. And usually when they're not really encouraged, it's kind of like the, the, um, you know, the underground. Dark side of bodybuilding, you know, they're kind of like old school, you know, most coaches now when they coach you to bodybuild, they, they refuse to use diuretics. They don't endorse diuretics because they're very powerful, right? They'll, you piss in it and they're dangerous because after competition you have to do a protocol to make sure that you're, you know, your heart doesn't stop. Oh my god, that's nuts. but yeah, I was like so desperate to get rid of this water. Um, so the night before the competition, I popped this diuretic and I was like, I was, you know, the water was going out, the water was pissing out and I was like, and what you do is you, you can't not, so every time, every, the amount of water that you piss out is the amount of water you drink and you try to create this sort of water, water cyclation.

15:39 You can't just let your body. Cause then, you know, something serious could happen. So I was told like drink and piss, drink, piss, drink, piss. Like keep getting the water out and then Never leave the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't sleep the whole night. It was just every, every five minutes, every five minutes, every 10 minutes. It was just piss, piss, piss, piss. And I had like, I've had, I bought like six large bottles of water and I put them right next to the toilet, just so I was. Could roughly measure what was I drinking first? That was pissing. Um, but I remember looking, I remember going on stage and I was like, I think I'm okay. Like, I think I'm, you know, I'm not a, I don't look as good as I did on the other competitions, but I'll survive it.

16:25 And I remember doing, you know, the full poses and everything. And my wife was, was filming me in the, in the, in the, um, in the state, in the, in the audience area. Right. And when it was done, I came and I looked at the phone, what she was filming. And I was the first picture she saw. I was like, Oh my God. Like I looked, I was like, cause it's funny how you, how, what you think of Yeah. Yeah. you are on stage with the lights with everything and I was just like, oh, okay. I should have stayed home You were still like, what did you see versus what did you Oh Yeah, Like, the competition I did before that was the was probably the best that's best I've ever pushed myself to And then that was like the worst with the exact.

17:16 I was like, there's two different people like, what the hell, why would you do that? Um, but yeah, it was a really good lesson. It was humbling. Obviously you sort of, you have to learn to embrace those things, right? Like, yeah, you pushed yourself. You had three good competitions. I had like, um, I averaged, I averaged second place in everything. Um, That's really good. You can't have your cake and eat it to you can't have the world still, you know, there's, there's ups and downs. So I kind of bit it and said, all right, that was, that was fun. But now it's time to get in, get back to work. But, um, really throughout that whole time as you know, doing, doing competitions, suffering injuries, suffering losses.

17:59 And those were sort of the major injuries that I remember were the most mentally, uh, difficult to deal with. Um, Throughout that time, I discovered red light therapy and, um, the, my wife actually introduced me to red light therapy. So she introduced me to this lamp. Um, and it was kind of a lamp that you would put by your, by your bed, except it was very, it was black. It was ugly. It was a very old school sort of thing that you would buy, you know, some dark street or you'd find it in like Batman's lair to Right next to the uh, the guy that sold the, uh, diroletics, whatever you want to call it. ha ha, yes.

18:40 Yes. like what do you call it? The big jackets where he's just kind of like, I got this, I got that, I got a lamp. Quick, be quick. Don't show anyone. Yeah, look very three times. But this, this lamp was like, it was very old technology, but it was light therapy. And the, the bulb was, was big, it was big and red and it would heat up, the bulb would heat up. And my wife told me, put this on your knee. Cause that was the, where we started using it was, it was on my left knee. She said, put it on your knee 20 minutes before bed. I promise you, you're going to feel great. And I thought, Oh, some feng shui. Cause my wife's Chinese, right? So I was like, all right, you know, okay, let's, we'll give this a try.

19:22 I'm sure, you know, I just need to appease her. Right. Um, but after a week, yeah, happy wife, happy life. But after a week, it stopped hurting. And two weeks later, I didn't need the thing anymore. And the reason I knew is because I, by sitting down that seated position that where my leg, my feet were at that angle. And my knees are at that angle. I didn't have the pain anymore. I didn't have that excruciating pain. Work. You know, I would have to stretch my legs out and rub oil, massage them and try to get the, you know, the pain away. I didn't have that. It was gone. And I thought it was the, I'm, actually, I'm I'm curious, and sorry to interrupt, but before you applied the red light therapy to your knee, how long, like what was your daily routine so that you can be functionally normal?

20:08 I'm curious. Oh yeah. I mean, taking a taxi before you, like before using that, like I would use, I would I would have a, um, do you know this like cream, you get it at Walgreens. It's like, it's called deep heat. It's like a. heard of it, yeah. It's like a white and this when you apply it to the skin, it heats up, it creates, it creates a lot of, it drives a lot of heat to that area and blood. Obviously the circulation blood is healing. It's a very easy, temporary solution to a pain issue. If your shoulder's bad, I would just deep heat. I would carry deep heat with me. I would have that in my bag, like ever since I was a, a young aspiring athlete, like I was, I had that in my bag.

20:51 I would even, I would try Tiger balm. Um, I would have heat patches, but he is sort of a quick, short, short term pain relief that I would keep like, that's, that's kind of how I would do it. And I just thought like, That's, that's, that's the only way to do it. That's how athletes do it. They kind of, you know, put the heat on, get the, you know, get the, the, the muscle lubricate, go out, play. And then that's what you do. You just always make sure you have deep heat. That's what you do. Um, of course I didn't realize about, you know, you know, addressing the problem on a cellular level, which is what light does, um, about mitochondria health, I didn't know about any of that. Like this was, that was all news to me. I was very much, um, you know, a kid that didn't want to listen to anybody.

21:34 And. I thought, you know, I'll just muscle my way through it. Like in, in the Chinese, um, uh, Zodiac, I'm a cow. No, no is cow. Right. And cows are known to be very bullish, to just work, to like, the way I'll fix it is just to work it right. It's kind of like a more, more of a work hard rather than a work smart, kind of a, uh, personality. Um, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, looking back at that, that was definitely me growing up is as an athlete wanting to compete and sort of, I was just sort of, the harder I work, the more I push myself, the, the better it'll be right, the, the, my you had the red light therapy on your knee and it took you two weeks Yeah.

22:21 to heal. Now, nuts. like no pain? And then, or what, what was there any type of like, uh, maintenance after that? Like that's insane. Hmm. Yeah, it was, it was really what sparked the whole, like, what just happened there? What was that all about? What is light therapy? What, I mean, there's red light, there's infrared light. There's far, far, you know, far far light. Um, there's different spectrums of light. There's so much in light therapy and just in photo by modulation. It's a very big space and learning about it. Um, meeting scientists, um, connecting with, with, with people that were, you know, building applications for light therapy, uh, became, yeah, it became very, an interesting journey and one that led me down to the road to launching my own product, which is the LumaFlex, which is the, uh, a portable device that I wish I had when I was, you know, Um, going through those, um, those injuries as a young, young athlete.

23:23 So it's very portable, um, and it's red and near infrared. So it's 850 nanometers for infrared and 630 for red light. And those are nanometers that have a lot of clinical research behind them that have proven to, you know, not, not just help with surface level pain. Like if you've been punched, you know, we got a bruise, you know, if you've done boxing, but also like deep chronic pain that you've had in your, in your joints, um, And, um, and yeah, like that's the, just having a device that was portable was very important to me. It was extremely important to me. It's, it's an FDA class two device, the one I've built. And, um, yeah, it's the story of how that product came to be is the story of how, you know, just all the pain that I've gone through and that's obviously, yeah, talking about the sports sports side of it, but you know, um, something also to, to, to address with red light therapy is, It's not just where I talk about red light therapy is as a pain management tool.

24:22 Right. It's natural. It's not evasive. I want to get people away from drugs. I want to get people away from evasive means of, of like, you don't have to have surgery on your knee. Like, don't, don't do surgery unless you've at least looked at light therapy, right? This is the message that I really, um, I feel very passionate about, but they're the red light therapy. There are other people, other scientists, you know, other, other people that run companies where it's, red light therapy is used in the mindfulness application, you know, to support meditation, to support, you know, de stressing, you know, to help with anxiety because you, when you go, wow, it's, it's a mate. When you go into like So let's go into the science of this because you're saying like it recovers and helps you heal and then also helps you relax.

25:07 So what's the science behind it? Like you said, you've, you've done a lot of like meetings with, with different scientists and patents. What did you, what's, what's happening to the body? What's happening to the muscles when you apply? Red light and then if you want to get into because you know, yeah red light and then I think you said infrared So let's go with red light. What's going on there? Yeah. Like if I would. I would love to introduce you to some photo by modulation scientists to be on this show, because when you hear from there, you get the real juicy science. You know, you get the big hamburger. Yeah. How are you confiding to that? Wow. This is my you're holding your brain together because you don't want to explode because it's so awesome.

25:52 You know what you're learning. But I'm more, I come, the background I've come from how I communicate the science, right? It's very much in this way that I, I try to package it in a way that would be understood to me when I was younger. In my early twenties, you know, what is this whole light therapy? This pseudo science, like throw me this hippie shit. Like, come on, what is it? I'll say, listen, red light therapy is from the sun. It's from the sun. It's from the sun When, when you live in Thailand or when you're in Miami, right? My, my head office is in Miami. We have those beautiful sunrises and those sunsets, right?

26:33 And that color, that beautiful dark red, you know, and that orange, that's red and infrared light. So that's when the light is at the right length to be able to penetrate your skin and activate the mitochondria. We're bo, we're human beings. We're both made up and we're made up of cells, billions of cells. The powerhouse, the engine of that cell is the mitochondria. Now, if we're giving energy. to the mitochondria. The cell could do what it's supposed to do. The cell can do its job. So when we're talking about healing, what we're talking about pain relief, right? Pain management. It's not the light that heals you. It's the light that gives yourselves energy to heal themselves. That's how, that's how it works in the, in the, that's in the simplest way to, to understand when you're like, you know, how is putting those creams on, um, my knees and from my shoulders.

27:23 Right. And it, you, you getting a very attempt, you're driving blood. Yes. It's a very temporary solution for your pain. But what you want to do is you want to look at your pain and you want to address the pain on a cellular level. If you can fix yourself on a cellular level. That's where you're going to start seeing some long lasting change. Mm. seen, I've seen some amazing stories, very stories that, you know, I get very emotional about people that have dealt with pain for so many years. You know, they, I pulled my back, you know, back in the war or, you know, this, I've had this since, you know, my college ball days, right. These, these, these issues, these pains that they've dealt with as that our parents, our grandparents have dealt with that.

28:06 It seems like they. They have no other other than just dealing with it. They have no other solution and I've seen them healed and have no pain with devices that are not even a hundredth of the power of what of what I've created. And, um, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's natural. It's not, you can't overdose on it. It's light. It's light. And when you, when you go into it and you. When you, you know, trace it back to Egyptian times and the Romans, how, you know, you start like, oh, and then NASA, you know, discovered it, you know, in space when they were trying to, uh, heal, uh, when they were trying to grow plants and then the astronauts saw that, oh, it was healing abrasions.

28:47 And then you see it now in beauty, the led masks, right? You see the girls wearing the led masks. That's just light therapy. Right. Um, you sort of see, it starts to all like, wow, I got to, you, you, you You feel very, um, privileged to, to know and be abreast of this information and I'm very much at the very, the forefront of any new technology that comes out what to do with light therapy. I'll, I'll know about it. I just, I have the, the relationships. I have the network. I have the partnerships. Um, because I'm very, very much passionate about it. Um, and I want to create more light therapy devices that support every kind of pain. And it's just, I mean that the frustrating thing is just getting the message out.

29:31 It's getting the word out that, you know, because people again, Oh, what, you know, I, I have a drug, I want to take it. There's a drug and the drug gets my pain away instantly. It's like, doesn't get it. It temporarily gets, uh, addresses the issue, but then you're creating another problem here because you're now becoming very addicted to that temporary pain, right? It's kind of, this can lead down a very dangerous path, right? Yeah. Um, and then you're, you're saying, look, this is natural, you know, it's off, it's natural, it's probably not going to work. This, this attitude is so frustrating. Um, but it's, it's just the milestone that we all in photobiomodulation have to overcome.

30:12 Um, and we're just going to keep going until, um, it's become a widely used means of treatment for any and all kinds of pain. And, um, not only that, but I mean, think about. Think about anxiety, right? Think about depression. Think about these, these conditions with your brain. Why are they caused? Where is this coming from? Why is this happening more so now than before? Is it because that perhaps we're not, you know, exposing ourselves to good light, light from the sun, but we're instead, you know, exposing ourselves to bad light, right? Artificial light, which is like from your phone, a lot of blue light like blue light, right? So, And we're not, we're sort of not following our circadian rhythm.

30:53 We would wake up as primal human beings. We'd wake up when the beautiful sunrise would come. We'd get our, get our energy, right? And this would also protect us for the later rays throughout the day, right? The more intense rays of light. And then when the sun went down, that would be our circadian rhythm would tell us time to go to bed, right? And this was, this was our, in our biology, right? Go wake up, go to sleep, wake up, go to sleep. And we would sit around campfires and we'd have that, that red light from the fire, right? That would, and this again would just encourage us to wind down, to turn off. Right. But now we're up late watching tick tock or some other nonsense. And we're all like, and we're wired and we're doing it from a very young age.

31:35 And this is causing, creating anxiety, creating depression, creating things. You know, people are like, I feel bad. I feel depressed, but I don't know why. I don't know why nothing bad has happened to me. I feel, you know, my dog didn't die. You know, my parents still love me. You know, I still have a job. I don't know why I feel bad. And that's, I'm just like, dude, you're, you need to basically, you need to get your feet. You need to stand on the ground, the actual ground, ground, grounded, you know, you get some good light. You need to like go to the beach, you know, put your feet on this in the sand, go into the ocean, get some of that good light and you know, do that for two weeks and let's see if you feel, feel depressed afterwards. Right. Um, going to ask you, Um, it's such customers, clients, and people that, you know, give you feedback, do they notice Uh, outside of, yes, you're gonna, you're gonna heal yourself.

32:29 One, what's usually the turnaround healing time? And then two, uh, what type of mental, uh, uh, how does it affect them mentally? Because you started mentioning that, you know, can it affect you mentally if it's not, nowhere's near your head? You know, how does that work? good question and it's like the greatest thing about the human race is that we're all different. Right. That's that is humanity's greatest resource is our differences because we can all learn from each other. You can never say someone is 100 percent right. Someone is 100 percent wrong, right? Um, and just like everybody's different. Everybody's everybody's pain is different.

33:10 Everybody's pain tolerance. Um, pain responses, pain recovery. It's all different. Everyone's different, right? Um, there's some people that, you know, It's like 10 minutes of exposure to an affected area. After one 10 minute session, they're like, Oh my God, like. What happened? This is amazing. And you know, they shout to the hills like this is everyone come hither. Right? And then you'll meet someone. You'll meet someone who, you know, just did like an arm workout and he's like, Oh, you know, my biceps are a little bit sore. And you think like, that's very surface level pain. You know, if we're looking at red and near infrared, right? We're, we're definitely going to be addressed. Like, I'm confident that for muscular pain, like it's called Dom's, right?

33:56 delayed onset muscle soreness. This is a pain that is very easily covered with light therapy. And, you know, but then suddenly this guy's like, no, I don't feel any better. So, and after two weeks or let's still doesn't feel any better. Um, it's just, everybody's different. But what, what I always say is like every human being, they have like a battery inside them. So everyone has a battery. Now this battery is clinical. Clinical research shows that with a full dose of red light therapy, you can basically fill up your battery for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes of full full body exposure, you fill the battery up.

34:38 So after that 20 minutes, you're not really getting any benefit. You're kind of like, You're, you're done, you're capped, but every human being, their batteries deplete at different rates. Someone, you know, dealing with cancer may delete, you know, may deplete quite quick. Yeah, like somebody, you know, with a knee injury might deplete quite quickly because we have, it's inflammation, right? So going back again to what red light therapy can do, there's three mechanisms. By giving your, the light, the wavelengths of light create three mechanisms. One is enhanced blood circulation. One is increased ATP and the other one is anti inflammation.

35:19 So cancer, inflammation, broken shoulder, inflammation, right? Tumor in the head, inflammation, there's inflammation in your body. So red light therapy brings inflammation down. Now the inflammation, you know, that if it's, if it's cancer, right, that inflammation, the battery will deplete. You need to then charge the battery again for, for, for very serious conditions. No. Um, some people, their battery can deplete less. There's other things you can do to help you absorb red light therapy better. And one is, um, is it's very important to hydrate. You need to be to be drinking good like not distilled water, but mineral water. You need to be hydrated. Hydrated hydration is extremely important as an element to support Recovery for red light therapy.

36:05 So that's one thing we always look at. And then the other thing is, Oh, this is where I'm going to need to get that scientist on your podcast because there's two other minerals. I believe that you need that if you're deficient in them, um, These two other minerals. This will be like an exciting part two. You could talk to, but there's two other minerals that you need that if your body's deficient in it, it doesn't, it's harder for red light therapy to take an effect. So what I always, yeah, what I always say is like, obviously, remember to hydrate, make sure you're getting your minerals in, um, and then give red light therapy.

36:45 Give it a two week chance. I always say two weeks. Some photo by modulation doctors with raving reviews, hugely famous, their applications are bought everywhere. Everyone does it. They say four weeks. They say even longer. They really are like, dude, if you want to really address your plan on a cell level, you want to be pain free, invest four weeks. Now, um, for me that I'm like, okay, that's that, that I will definitely rementioned to say, but I've seen a lot of great response after two weeks and that's a 40 minutes a day with, um, with my targeted treatment device with the LumaFlex And I think it's because it's targeted too, you know.

37:33 also too, I mean, there it is. yeah. So you can see that's the light must touch your skin. For those listening, um, you gotta go to YouTube and see him, uh, turn this on and, and, and, and work with it. Ha ha ha. You look like Iron Man. He's got it on his chest. He put it in the, in the top area. And it's glowing, that's funny. heart and then I get spine, so I put it on my, my neck And then 40 minutes each area, you would say? Um, oh no, no, that's for the pain. So if you have like a bad shoulder painful area, I would say 40 minutes throughout the day for two weeks.

38:18 Right. So we're going to really overdose overdosing, but if you're pain free and you're like, Oh, you know, I still want to get my red light therapy. I still want to get my cells, you know, to have that energy. I want my mitochondria health, you know, where should I be putting my, you know, my device. And I would always say forehead, a heart spine and gut, and then usually the back of the, the back of the, your spine, right? Your, your lower back. That's the number one. Area that is, um, has the, there's more pain in America, more pain requests than any other area. So more people go into a hospital saying I have a bad lower back and that's like as a pain that any, anything else at all.

39:03 So that's the, the device, as you can see, it's kind of large enough to stay portable, but also you can aim it at the back. You can have it on Question for you. Let's say you have that back pain, and you put it on your back, and you're gonna, going to see results after two weeks. Can you slow down on the usage of it? Oh, Yeah, I mean, Yeah, how does like the weaning off work, and then like maintenance? Yeah. Yeah. Like if, if you, yeah, if you, if you say after two weeks or let's say after two weeks, you feel fine, you don't have to wean off. You can just simply stop and then go to the primary areas.

39:46 Your brain, your, and the thing about red light is like what I encourage people to use in, whether it's a lumaflex or any other device, any application of red light therapy, use it like you would the sun when you wake up, turn on, that's, that's telling your body to wake up. So when you wake night we're in a room, you know, there's, you have the artificial light and you wake up. You know, are you, do you go outside? Some people, they don't even go outside. They'll go. you know, straight to the elevator, go down, jump in their car and they're off to work. Right? So I usually say when you wake up, turn on the sun, that's the sun turning. So I usually just leave it as like a lamp and then I do that again at night because not all of us can sit and watch the sunrise and sunset every day.

40:33 Right? So use it as a tool, like just for your circadian rhythm. You know, if you're, if you're feeling, if you ever have a headache, I don't know how to explain it. It just really helps against headaches. Yeah. Yeah. using it as a lamp too. Right? Or, or, some people have the, the salt lamps, and then you can have this. Um, it, it, it definitely has a multiple purpose, which is pretty cool. Do you have any, like, crazy, like, unexpected, um, and I, I'm pretty sure you have to be careful with the word healing, but, like, any, and, uh, like, good results, like, you were, like, even you were, like, hmm, I'm not sure if this is gonna help, and then it pretty much shocked you.

41:19 Yeah. There was a really cool story. Do you know William Shatner? Mm Captain Kirk. I had, um, yeah, I'm, he was like my childhood hero. He was my, you know, I wasn't allowed to watch TV with swearing or with, with, with violence, right? With blood. So my parents would let me watch Star Trek because there's no swearing, right? It's like, uh, like, what would Bones always, he always would say, land sakes, Jim. He like, he There was literally no swearing like you, like, is that a bad, was that a bad word back then? Probably not. It was still not a bad word.

42:00 Yeah, there was. And there and every time that nobody dies, right? Like, Kirk goes down with his away team and they always just kind of like fall off to the side of the camera like that. Um, but I, I was, Completely different experience from, from me growing up. Okay. I love, I love Star Trek. I absolutely like, I was obsessed with it because it was the only thing we had allowed to watch. So Kirk was my guy. It was my idol and I would dress up as Kirk, um, for my birthday parties, um, for Halloween, for Christmas, everything. I was Kirk and I would have a phaser. I'd go around, I'd shoot everyone and I, and they'd be like, Hey, I shot you. And I was like, I can't die. I'm Kirk.

42:40 Kirk never died. But, um, in Miami, uh, there was a biohacking event and, um, he was, he came, he came to this event and of course I was extremely excited to meet him. I was like, wow, my childhood hero did it. He was, he's not at that time. He, I think he was 95. I think he's 96 now. Um, I think so. Yeah. 92 or 93. I hope I'm, I hope I'm right. But, um, So I'm there and the guy runs up, one of my mates runs up to me and he's like, John, John, William Shatner wants, wants you, wants to meet you, wants to meet you. He wants red light. And I was like, what? What do you, like, what?

43:22 And I'm like, okay. And I grabbed a Lumaflex. And he pulled me over and I went to this back, you know, upstairs up this elevator to this VIP area. And there I see William Shatner. He's in a wheelchair. Um, and I look at him and, oh, I, dude, I almost like broke down. I was so, he, he was, he, he's, he's really old and he was, he's wrecked. Like he was wrecked and he has, he had arthritis in his arm Hmm. shoulder. And it was coming down to his bicep and he was like, I'm in incredible pain all the time. Now I'm in, I'm in so much pain right now. Um, and when you see your hero who go, you know, you dressed up at and you see him just like, he's like so helpless and just so under the control of pain.

44:11 It's so heartbreaking. I was like, Whoa, I was, I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm here. I'm whatever you get, I'm going to do whatever I got, pull out whatever tricks that I know, like, geez, I'm, I got you buddy. And, um, I got the LumaFlex and I stuck it on his, um, on his, uh, his shoulder. And then he went off and he started, he gave like a little talk to some, some VIPs and he talked about this injury and how like for years he's dealt with this. And, and he's dealt with this doctor and it was, it's a whole ordeal. And. Just amazing that he was still like, he was still going through it. He's, you know, he really, and even at that age, he was still, still Captain Kirk, like he would, he would, no way was his brain effect, he was still so smart, so funny, so articulate with, you know, he, he was, and I, and I'm sitting there the whole time and I'm, I got the, you know, the pad and I'm moving it around, right.

45:08 So all the different areas. doing his talk. But Yeah. And I was like, and I remember my, um, I was my older brother, he lives in, um, he, he lives in California. He flew over to Miami to see me and he like tried to come through and they're like, no, no, no. Sorry, you can't, it's only VIPs. You can't. And I was like, ah, stay out there. Stay out, man. For Get outta here. I don't know that guy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like me, but no idea who it is. But he said, I remember I gave him that treatment. Thank you so much. I gave him the device the next day. He wanted to do it again up on, uh, again in front of everyone.

45:51 And he told me, he said, um, he feels, he said 80 percent better. And he said, I was like, I was like 80 percent like, you know, and that, you know, he was so articulate, like when he, he, because people would ask him questions about him, him going up into space, his history as an actor, his kids, all this stuff. And he's so, you know, he, he doesn't just like ramble. He, he even pauses and he slowly talks. He's very, Careful about how he talks and he chose 80 percent and I was like, wow, that's, I'll take that. I'll, you know, I'll take, I'll take that from, from, from you, from like, given your situation after two treatments, two days.

46:36 Um, I was like, wow, that really, really, that's going to mean a lot to me. I know I called my mother, Yeah, William Shatner. And she's like, tell him I love him, John. I love him. I love him so much. that's so cool that you, you met like your, your childhood hero and Yeah. wow. Yeah, I've met, um, I've met my two heroes, my young, my childhood hero, Captain Kirk, and the hero that I have now is Tyson Fury. I've met both of them, and I both had these amazing experiences with them. Like, if someone were to say, who do you want to meet? I'd, yeah, I can't really, You're good I, Joe Rogan, I guess, but just for, you know, I don't know.

47:24 I might pass on that too. I don't know. I'm not too sure. is big into, well, at least at one point he did the MMA, right? And, and he would probably appreciate something like this if he was actively doing it. Dude still works out. Um, That's nuts. I mean, if I were my childhood person that I would want to meet is actually Michael J Fox because, uh, back to the future was like my movie. It still is my movie. And, uh, to meet him would be awesome. Um, I'd have to go through some like, uh, Comic con or something like that where they're still coming in and they were in the area and I was so upset that I didn't go I'm like, I should have like just taking the time off and but um, that's a cool story.

48:10 Thanks for sharing. So, um Bringing it home. I mean we have light there you therapy you can use it in the morning and nights I was if anything What would be the difference of impact because it has two parts it has red light and the and then it has you said Infrared Yep. At infrared. what's the difference? what's the difference? Yeah, Yeah, it's just the depth at which the light, the wavelengths of light, how deep they go. So, you know the LED masks, right? That usually those, those masks, most of them. Um, I can't recall a brand that has infrared, but most of them just do red, meaning it's just surface.

48:56 It's just to boost collagen in your skin, right? But, but infrared goes deeper. And that's where we're looking at joints, bones, like we're looking at deep chronic pain, right? Arthritis, sciatica, we need a deeper wavelength of light. So for the lumaflex, um, The red light we have, that's a dual, a dual chip. So each chip has both red and infrared programmed into that chip. So the 630 nanometer, the red light, right? That's the light. And then 850, that's the deeper light. But there are devices where, like, um, this, uh, one scientist, uh, Sarah Turner, she deals with the brain, right?

49:40 Red light in the brain, which in my opinion is the most exciting space in, in light therapy that everybody's talking about. There's so much incredible science. edge right now. Yeah, it's like you're talking about like brain diseases, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's all being like eradicated. You know, I know, I know a veterans, uh, uh, organization in Boca that, um, they use red light therapy to help support like PTSD, like for, for, for them to sort of get rewired. And, um, it's amazing that the cases that they had where people have come in wrecked, like mentally, but then after, you know, continuous treatment are now You know, getting back to their lives and, you know, are feeling normal.

50:27 And that's just through light, infrared light, to the brain. And those, that wavelength of light is like a thousand. It goes up much, much higher. Oh because because of the brain It has to go a little bit deeper and it's different material. That's I like It's interesting how light Can be so impactful And Like you said, it's been around for a while and we're rediscovering it air quotes and how that light is, is something natural that the body's designed to take in. It's not designed to take in a chemical that was manufactured in a lab.

51:08 that's right. to take in one of the main things, which is light. And, um, I would say before we finish up today, Because we're talking about light, I'm very curious. What are your thoughts on sun gazing? If you're aware of it, you're going to explode. Yeah. It's. Yeah. So there's another friend of mine, very close friend of mine. He's a, he's a photo by modulation scientist. This guy, he's like, I, I need to like de load in the, you know, the trips that we have where we meet and we, you know, we're learning together and we're doing like some media events together and stuff.

51:51 Um, he has, he's a wealth of information, a wealth of information on light therapy. He can talk. He's, in my opinion, the person that can package light therapy better than anyone else, anyone else. This guy, this guy can look at the sun. Look, I wake up in the morning. I get grounded. You know, I want to get my, you know, I want to get my eyeballs exposed to sunlight, right? Every that's, you know, that's a very important morning protocol just to wait. Get out, get outside, get outside. Don't let the window or wall and especially don't have, you know, artificial light. The first thing that your I see.

52:31 Try to get outside, get outside. And you know, we'll have talks in that morning, sip of the coffee, you know, outside on the grass. And one day, one day, I'll never forget this. One day it's quite, it was quite a while ago. He goes, um, Hey, yeah. And he told me that thing, sungays. And he goes, check this out. Takes off his glasses and he just looks at the sun. And I was like, it's like 10, 10 30. I was like, Ooh. And he's just looking at the sun. And he's like, yeah, I can, I can do this. I can do this like during any time of the day, you know, even 12, 12 to That's the first time I heard of that. And he's built up this, uh, it's taken him three years.

53:12 Wow. taken three years. Cause I was like, okay, how do I get on? in like you have to. So I, when I first learned about it, you have to be in an area where when you wake up, if you're starting to get into it, I'm pretty sure what this is what he did. You have to start right. When it just comes over the horizon and you have to slowly condition your eyes Yeah. they say like, um, 10 seconds at a time Until you can kind of like stretch it and you have to just listen to and feel your eyes so for this guy to be able to do like any time of the day that actually changes my my thought process About looking at the sun because I haven't heard of anybody being able to to look and be Educate on it and still do it during the day.

54:06 It's usually like within the first like minute or so. And then it's like, don't do it. And then we just had the, uh, the solar it's 2024. We just had the solar eclipse in the U S Yeah. a lot of people were saying, Oh, you're going to go blind if you look at it. And it's one of those like, yes and no. You know, if you're not trained anything that you do and you're not trained in it and not conditioned for it, yeah, you're going to get damaged. So it's That's right. to see, like, I'm curious, so is that guy that you're talking about, is he in the U. S.? I believe he's in the US. Yeah. Yeah. He's in, I think he's in, I think he's, yeah, might be a, he travels a lot. I usually, as a scientist, I like to work with him because, you know, you know, part of launching if I'm working with partners, usually if I want to do a presentation, if I want to incorporate like an education element into the partnership.

54:59 I always am like, you, you know, where are you? Can you, where are you in the world? I fly in. I, I want to, I wanna work with him on, on things like that. Like if we're talking to big companies, like, and I, I am, um, yeah. I'm talking to very, very large companies about, you know, especially in the sports world. Sports world, right. Um. So he's, he's a great resource to have as a scientist. You can come in, give a presentation, give a talk, and I get a lot of that education along the way. Like I've really benefited. Um, but he told me exactly the same thing. He said, you want to start, you start, you know, sunrise, this is how you do it. You did it. I was like, wow, man, that's, that's a, that's some really invent.

55:41 Like he, he, he really knows so much about light, about the power of light and And the use of light and the magic of light. Just, I mean, I don't know how else to describe it other than just the pure magic of light. Um, that he's, yeah, he wants to, you know, sort of engulf and, um, nourish his body in every way possible with light. So You know what would be cool? yeah, looking at the sun, I was watching him look at the sun and It was just like, I'm looking at you, like his eyes were, they just were Like Like nothing.

56:22 yeah, he wasn't like, ah, or like watery or anything. He was just like, I was gonna joke around. I'm like, the next invention could be clothes that light up. That's, that's, that's way into the future. But, you know, like just, I'm just being, I'm just joking around. But, you know, ideally you would be like, you know, walking around naked all the time, which is what we used to do. That's right. That's right. as we come to a close, is there anything specific? That, um, you're working on that you wanted to share that's new. Um, and if not, you know, how do we find you if the audience wants to know a little bit more about your project and get in contact with you or your company?

57:03 Well, right now I'm, um, I'm in China in our manufacturing office. For a couple of weeks, because I want to build new products. I want to build new products. I want to build products that change the world. And it's not about, you know, it's not about you adapting to the the red light application or product. It's about the product adapting to you. I'm very much interested in creating devices that more a part of our lifestyle. Not so much, but we have to kind of like, you know, go like the panels, for example, I'm not. I'm, I don't really like the, because you have to stand in front of the panel. I want, you know, I want something that you can wear. I like wearables. I like on the go, portable, accessible.

57:44 Um, so anyone who has ideas about products, um, in red light therapy, you can drop me a DM on John Graham fitness on my Instagram. I'm probably most active on my Instagram because we have a lot of influencers. Um, and we live in, you know, the social media world. So, um, and we need all the visual promotion we can get, you know, when we're trying to raise awareness with, um, with, uh, with the, with red light therapy. So yeah, drop me a DM with a great product idea. I would love to hear. I get, I get give them them a lot. Um, so it's, you know, it's nice, it's good to get this data back. cool. luma flex.com, that's, that's the, the current product line. There's only two, but I'm hoping, you know, with your help with I ideas.

58:27 Um, I could launch more products before the year's out. Let's get some ideas going. All right, cool. And I hate, I would love to share some ideas too. I, they come up all the time. Um, cool, man. Hey, thanks for coming on to the show. I had a blast learning about you, your story, your red light. You have awesome energy. Let's get stuff going. Let's let's, uh, let's make some positive change and help people out. Um, again, yeah, thanks for coming on the show, man. Thank you. Really appreciate it.