# 81 The Power of Kindness and Self-Discovery | Alan Questel

0:03 All right, welcome to the New Age Human Podcast. I'm your host, Jonathan Astacio. And today, we're talking with Alan Questel, who is known for his clarity, creativity, and down to earth style of teaching. Alan has taught Thousands of people in over 20 countries on five continents around the power of kindness and a unique physical movement called the Feldenkrais Method. Now, if you wanted to learn how to like yourself more, or hear more about being more consciously self aware and having more patience, and more importantly, what the heck is the Feldenkrais method, stick around to the very end. Now, before we begin, if you want to get alerted to future episodes on YouTube or any other video platform, I just ask that you like, and subscribe so you can get those alerts and at the same time, if you want to send some feedback and you want to.

0:52 I don't know. Give me some ideas for future episodes or just tell me what you like or dislike. I would love to hear from you Just go to NewAgeHuman. com and on the contacts tab, just click it. And it goes straight to me. I read every email. Now, with that said, let's get to the show. Alan Questel, thank you for coming to the show. How's it going, man? It's going good and thanks so much for having me today. I, um, I appreciate you coming on. You have a very kind demeanor and down to earth, you know, you, you read someone's background and then what people say about them and you're like, well, let's see, let's meet the person. And I'm like, wow, they're spot on.

1:34 so we're going to be, uh, I want to get to know you and why. You're doing your work. You say you love what you do. And for, for me, I know that, um, especially coming from New York, you're, you're, how are you the, the, the kindest person out there and you're from New York. Did you come from New York city? I mean, I had to get that out. I grew up in Manhattan and you know what I found is that New Yorkers really are kind. But the first approximation is like, no, we can't do it. But that's just like the surface of them. I've seen New Yorkers help people, do things for each other, hold the door, give people money and stuff.

2:16 And it's just a fast paced place that has this reputation for being kind of tough. And it can be, but I don't think it's less kind than any place else. On the surface, like if you go to the south and everyone's like, how you doing? You're looking great. Nice to see you. I mean, New Yorkers don't do that so much. I understand that. But deep down, I think we're all kind. All of us. Every city. Hmm. Well, it's interesting because I have family in New York and I spent the first like five years of my life in. The Bronx area. Uh huh. And I just remember school was aggressive and I was in first grade thinking, I've got to get ready for these fights that I see every day at lunch.

3:07 And then we moved to Connecticut in the suburbs. And I just remember me being shielded up because mentally I was already ready to For, you know, second grade, Right. you know, the, but because I guess as I got older or as I saw people get older in the school in New York, I saw them be more aggressive. And so that was my mental process of focus. Suburbs completely different story. If anything, they told me chill, chill, chill. They were just joking around. Have you seen that as you help work with people sure. I mean, like, you know, I grew up in Manhattan, in New York City, and when I moved to California first, everybody was so nice, I mistrusted it, you know?

3:55 And then, I see a different capacity for that kinder interaction. In all the different countries I teach in, you know, like in Taiwan, people are just outgoing and friendly. In France, they're a little bit more reserved. In Sweden, they're, they're much more reserved, but kind. And in Colombia, they're just out there, you know. So it, it, it can be really different, and it's, for me, it's a question of kind of noticing that, and then saying, well, how do I meet the person who I want to talk to and be with? and you have your unique experience? I say unique because I'm speaking for myself. You've been to over 20 different countries.

4:36 So of course you're No, no. I teach, I've taught in 20 different countries. I've been to about 40 Oh my god. That's Okay, so you've been to twice the amount that I thought originally. Um, that's a lot of countries. So yeah, that's a lot of Change is a person. I I'm sure because if you don't leave your city or your state, you are going to assume that is the way it is. And you know, social media right. TV and they tell us what people are like. So I appreciate that from you. And it makes more sense how your energy comes across as being more grounded because you've seen more.

5:18 You've met more people and it sounds like you've gotten past more of their, you know, What do you call it? That surface barrier, right? Everybody has like that surface shield. yeah, I want to get into first, what, why, why spend your life and a lot of your teaching and energy around helping people be more kind, why not something else? What made you go into that work? I'm very curious. it actually came from something else, and, but, but to, to, before I answer that part of the question, I would, I would just see one of the things that.

5:59 Most interests me are things that are fundamental and that are cross cultural, right? So kindness is a value that I haven't met someone who doesn't value kindness, right? And then, you know, what I also talk about is being, creating a kinder world towards ourself and others, but also learning to like ourselves more and, and to be kind to ourselves, which is actually harder than being kind to others, I've found. For myself and for others. And so, my, my, my, uh, kind of journey into, into finding this idea and promoting it more, uh, is I teach something called the Feldenkrais Method, which is, excuse me, a movement technique that's based on learning theories, and I work with people with orthopedic and neurological problems, professional athletes, actors, dancers, and, uh, I help people with, with all kinds of pain or neurological problems, but also people who want to have a change in their self image, to become more who they wanted themselves to be.

7:07 And there's two modalities within the Feldenkrais Method. There's a group class and a private work. And in the group class, the movements are done very slow and small so that you can increase your sensitivity and sense yourself more clearly. And after a while, you'll With this idea of reminding people to move more slowly, to move more gently with yourself, I started proposing the idea to move in a way that you like the way it feels. And of course, these movements are outside of the context of our everyday life. It's not like playing the violin or riding a bike where you're trying to achieve or get to a certain level. This is just to develop awareness of yourself. To improve functioning, to improve self image, to reduce pain, all those things.

7:52 But that they're, they're kind of innocuous movements in the beginning. And I found something really interesting. That when people started moving in a way that they like the way it feels in that context, more and more continually, that it was like kind of entering the back door of who they were. And they started to like themselves more. I think one of the best moments I had in teaching that, I was teaching a program in Australia. And the programs that I teach are four years long, so it's a long time being with people. And at the graduation, when I handed each person their certificate, some of them hugged me and whispered in my ear, I like myself more.

8:33 And I thought, that made it worthwhile for me. So, you know, my job there is to train people to become Feldenkrais practitioners. And Dr. Feldenkrais, when asked the question, Could you describe the method in one sentence, he said, Know thyself. So that's my job too, is to help people know themselves better. And then, what I've added on to that is what I'm talking about as part of my job, is to help people like themselves more. And if that's all they came away with after four years, That's pretty significant. And that's fundamental, right? And so, how did that lead me to kindness? Well, it happened, two things really.

9:14 One was kind of inadvertent that I did some act of kindness. I can't even recall what it was. And in the next moment, I realized I like myself more. And I realized, and I'm not suggesting we just do acts of kindness so we can pat ourselves on the back and like ourselves more. But that kindness There was a result of doing that action towards another, with another, that helped me like myself more. So liking myself is more intrapersonal, and being kind with others is more interpersonal. And I've found that it's so fundamental to who we are as human beings. Like, you know, like I said, I travel a lot, I've never been in a culture where people don't want more kindness.

10:00 or they don't want to like themselves more. And I don't know why that happens, but Yeah, yeah the the bubbles the bubbles, I can't control them. For anybody listening, um when you put your thumb up and you have like a macbook, you know what happens the bubbles We're starting to see it more. It's like an automatic feature. But then I try to do it on purpose. Yeah, right Try two thumbs up No? yes, see it It has a mind of its own. I really like the know thy self part and I feel a lot of people Are challenged with that as in seeking outwardly for information about yourself, which is interesting I blame school and the other part i'm actually very curious.

10:50 What kind of movements are we talking about with Feldenkrais is it i'm thinking of like someone i'm thinking of a weird extreme Where you're doing these, uh, the movements of not like a samurai, but where you have like the ebb and flow of energy where you have someone standing. Are you, are you on like the rocks with people on the ocean side and the breeze? And you're just kind of flowing with nature or like, what does it look like? Well, the first thing is that it's interesting that you have this martial arts image because Dr. Feldenkrais was one of the first Westerners to get a black belt in Judo. Nice. physicist, an engineer, a mathematician, and he developed his work through his own injuries.

11:31 He destroyed his knees playing soccer as a young man. And they said they could operate, but there was a 50 percent chance he wouldn't walk. And he said, well, that's crazy. And he became his own laboratory. So, in a sense, He came to know himself better, as you just proposed. And the thing about knowing ourselves more, it's like, I'm not talking about knowing ourselves in terms of, well I like chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream, and knowing, that's how I know myself. Those are all good things to know about ourselves. But to really come to know ourselves more, really what we have to be able to discover are the blind spots in ourselves that we don't know. And so the movements in the Feldenkrais Method are very subtle.

12:13 And I started to say before that doing a smaller, slower movement affords us a greater sense of sensitivity. And this has actually been studied. It's called the Weber Fechner Law. That when we reduce the stimulus, we increase the sensitivity. So now, if I was to show you a movement, a movement in the Feldenkrais Method, if I said, okay, bring your elbow and your knee towards each other, it's not like that, trying to muscle through it or do the biggest movement. It's actually Towards each other, so that as I do that, I can direct someone's attention, because first their attention is on their elbow and their knee. But if I said, but when you do that, feel what's your chest doing.

12:56 Where do your eyes go? Watch. If I look up, it changes the movement. If I look towards it, it changes the movement. So, we try to include more and more of the self in these slow movements, and again, reminding people to move in a way that they like the way it feels. Which is a funny question because when I ask that, are you moving in a way that you like the way it feels? Many people discover, no I'm not. I'm trying to achieve something. So it's a very different context for learning about ourselves through movement. And the idea of movement, we can look at it in terms of different aspects of our self image, of who we are, who we can know.

13:37 So there's our thinking. Our feeling, our sensing, and our movement, our actions. And a change in any one is the potential to change the others. If I change how I think, it can change how I feel. If I change how I sense, it can change how I think. The thing about movement is that it's immediate and concrete. I know it in that moment. And then I can use it in my everyday life. And, you know, I started talking about this idea of moving in a way that we like the way it feels. It's not just in these Feldenkrais Lessons, that's the practice in our everyday life. In my, in my book on kindness, I have a part about moving in a way that you like the way it feels.

14:17 There's a way of being kinder to yourself. And I'm not suggesting all the time. I mean that when you get up and go to the, go to the bathroom or go to get a drink of water, just to feel what's the quality of how am I moving. Because we don't pay attention to ourselves in those contexts very much. And I'm not suggesting dancing to the bathroom, you know. Or anything silly like that. that is the, what makes you feel good? Yeah. You know, it's interesting. A couple of things kept popping up. One, the whole thought process of moving in a way that makes you feel good. Well, first you gotta figure out what feels good.

15:00 And I feel A lot of times we don't take the time to just stop, Yeah. right? I don't, I do a lot of movement that doesn't make me feel good. If I'm moving stuff out of the car and I try to put everything in one hand and I'm like, I have that extra pinky, it doesn't feel good. And I did notice that. out of need and necessity for, uh, time crunch. And this needs to get done now, now, now, yesterday, yesterday, yesterday, you start to sacrifice a lot of what feels good to you.

15:40 And on those days where I, let's just say I have an open schedule, I do things, I'll take two trips to the car instead of trying to put everything in my hands and like twist my arm. back and spine to balance. And it's interesting how much that changes your, just your overall being. And the other thing, did you want to say something about that? Oh, I could say a lot about that. Yeah. So if you think of a kid drawing, right, a kid sitting on the floor drawing and they're sitting this way and then they're here and then they're that way and they're moving around and you never hear the kid get up and say, Oh mommy, I have a stiff hip Right. because they're regulating themselves through their state of comfort.

16:23 And we've learned as adults to inhibit that to a high degree, actually, because we have to get things done, like you were saying, right? And so I can ask you a question. It's a question I ask a lot, which is, and it's a simple question. It's a simple answer, I think. It's like, when do you decide to get comfortable? When I am going to do something big, that's going to require a lot of energy. Yeah, but let's say you're in the act already. What makes you decide to get comfortable? Oh, when I'm not worried about the outcome. Well, yeah, but I think the more common answer is, I decide to get comfortable when I'm uncomfortable.

17:07 Well, that's, yes, that's the obvious. That's the obvious, I know. That's the, yeah, if you think about that, if you think about that, that's actually a really crazy criteria. That means I don't get comfortable until I'm uncomfortable. As opposed to posing the question, as I'm doing something, am I comfortable? Yeah. Could I be more comfortable? Yeah, I can. Right? So we can shift the continuum from the negative end of it, more and more positive. Because, even as I'm sitting here now, if I really think for a moment, I can make a small adjustment and now I'm more comfortable. And I was comfortable, right? But if that becomes the ongoing criteria in our daily lives, that idea of feeling like I have to get something done has a different quality to it.

17:56 Because I have that, I get, I need to get things done, but maybe I don't need to do it by stressing myself out, right? Maybe I can use, I can regulate and monitor myself through a quality of feeling in what I do That feels easier and builds and grows. It's interesting. My mind is like having a hard time processing, like outside of, um, getting comfortable outside of the need to get comfortable because you're uncomfortable. As in, I think I personally have regulated that to be an automatic thing, That's good.

18:37 but, but. But like, for example, I, I drive a lot, so I get like a little cushion and I haven't gotten, I'm in between like, what do you call those back assists, the lumbar assists. And so I have like a shirt that I just kind of roll up and fold it in half and I just put it behind me and like, I'm constantly like shifting cause I'm not comfortable. Right. And then after a while I'm like, I just have to go, I don't have time to make sure I'm comfortable. I'll figure it out later. And I feel like that. There's a lot of people Would you like me to tell you a way to get more comfortable in the car? let's do it. Okay. So the lumbar assist that car, many cars have built in or the pillows that people buy, they work to a certain degree, but if you look at most car seats, most car seats are tilted back like that.

19:23 Yes. sitting back in the chair and as long as your pelvis is tilted back like that. And then, if we think of moving the pelvis, well, the pelvis moves at two ends. It moves at the lumbar spine, the lower back, and it moves at the hip joints, where the legs connect. And this seat like this only allows movement in the lumbar spine and the lower back. If you take a board and a little cushion like this and flatten the seat and make it a little firmer, Then, you can move at the lower end of your skeleton and have more of a skeletal support so the muscles don't have to work so much.

20:05 Hmm. I did see those too. It makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. Well, that's some really good advice. Get a cushion for your, your behind But a cushion that's not too soft. Because if it's too soft, you slump into it. You want something that's a little firm. Yeah. Okay. Hmm. Interesting. Hmm. I started, I started actually thinking about how nowadays a lot of people don't move that much, especially if you're working from home, you can find yourself sitting in front of the computer for a while and you spend extra money on that chair. And, uh, I have some friends and family that are personal trainers and it's interesting and I think you'll appreciate this.

20:51 I'm sure you know all about it, but you have these C level executives. that don't know their body. Yeah. Mm And so this person, the trainer is telling them, okay, so we're going to do this workout. And they try to describe it and they even show them and the person moves completely in the wrong direction. Like. Everywhere. And I can only imagine like for my question to you is people that don't know their body like that, that are in a, that are in a high, like a C level position or even not, it doesn't matter. What do you, what do you, what thoughts come through your head with, with that not knowing your body?

21:32 Cause I'm pretty sure that they don't have a clear idea of what makes them comfortable. Well, I would say two things. The first thing is I approach them with a great deal of patience. That's the most important thing. So that they feel safe enough to learn. Because if they feel pushed to do something and having to get it right, which most of us do, it's not just a C level person, it's anybody. We want to do it right. We want to be good at it. That we're not really paying attention to ourselves. We're working off some external image of something. Especially if it's been shown to us. And the, the degree to which people don't know themselves in their body, there's a pretty wide range. Like when I work with professional, really professional dancers and athletes, they know themselves pretty well.

22:17 To a very subtle, clear level. And that's what allowed them to become so successful. In their careers by doing something like that, but everyone, even they can come to know themselves better in terms of how they can move and what they can do, right? And so that's something that, and one of the things that brings about an environment where someone can pursue that without trying to achieve it. is novelty. Unusual movements, where they have to figure something out, not to imitate. When I teach, I never demonstrate. I describe people, I take them through a process, so that they start to feel themselves more accurately, more clearly.

23:03 And really, the key word there that I would say in terms of how they can learn that It's through connection and when I talk about connection, I'm talking about something very concrete. I'm talking about a connection of movement skeletally through a person. And if that happens, then the skeleton, which its function and movement is to bear weight and transmits force. starts doing its job better, and then our muscles work less. So that image I showed you of a car seat and putting something on it to level yourself off, to move more in your skeleton, that gives you more skeletal support. And the result of that is you work less in your musculature.

23:46 And the result of that is that you feel that movement is easier. And the result of that is that you like yourself more. So I think these things are all connected and grow together. And of course that's not, I'm not suggesting that's the only way to come to like ourselves more. I think there are other aspects. As I, I don't know if I mentioned it when we were talking already. That um, You know, when I came to the idea of creating more kindness, you know, which I, I see this liking ourselves more, creating more kindness is my mission, and it took me a while to kind of get that in my head. I went, it sounded too simple, but it's not simple. It's really a big job, and, When I would do an act of kindness and realize, Oh, I like myself better after that.

24:33 And again, as I said, not to pat myself on the back, Oh, I'm so kind, but to go, Oh, these actions make a difference in the area external to just me, not just internally what I feel, but the world around me is a better place. When I'm a little kinder. And you know, the funny thing is that since I've written this book, I find that I actually see more and more kindness than I saw before. And I'm like, how did I not see that? Right? I don't think the world changed all of a sudden cause I wrote a book. I think I became more aware of something because of that. And that, so, so that person, that, that sea level person or sea level, it sounds like the Aquaman or something.

25:16 That's not what we mean. Right. That level person. Um, it's a lot of what I'm talking about comes from their want, their desire. And one thing, and I have to be careful of this, even with myself, because in my field, I'm considered an expert. That's a dangerous place, because then people think what I say is the way it should be, and I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying, try this in your car, see if it helps you. If it doesn't help you, it was a bad idea for you, right? And so, anytime an expert comes with an idea of how we should move, or telling you how you should be kind, or telling you how you should like yourself more, I just, I'm a little mistrustful of it, you know, it's like affirmations.

26:04 I can sit there and I go, I like myself, I like myself, I like myself, I like myself, I like myself. Another ten minutes, okay, I like myself, I like myself, I like myself, excuse me. And maybe during that time I like myself a little bit more, but then what happens when I leave that meditation, that affirmation? So I'm interested in the concrete, everyday things we can practice that we can like ourselves more, that we can be kinder to others. Okay. What are some of those things that we can practice daily that could be simple that we can share with the audience? Well, I can tell you, um, When I was 19, I moved out of my parents house.

26:45 And at 19, I realized I didn't do anything well. I was a failure at 19. I wasn't old enough to be a success. How can I be a failure? Right. And, And, I started thinking, like, what could I teach myself to do well? And I picked, oddly, brushing my teeth. I didn't brush my teeth well. And the, the, the thing that was clever about this, which I didn't realize at the time, was it was something that no one knew about. The only person who might know about it was my dentist. He already knew, right? But, if I didn't brush my teeth? So what if I did brush my teeth great and I started doing that and over a not a month like a number of months maybe a year I started getting better at this and then I realized that all my sabbat unconscious sabotaging me.

27:40 sabbat Interactions with myself showed up in this simple act of learning to brush my teeth better. So, if I, if I'm suggesting to someone to, to find a pathway, that you find something every day. Maybe it's turning the lights out in each room. Maybe it's folding your clothes before you go to bed. Maybe it's making your bed in the morning. Something simple that wouldn't interfere with your life if you didn't do it. And you're not such a horrible failure if you didn't do it. But something that's possible to change. And there's a lot to learn in those kind of actions like that. Where we can, at the end, over time, go, Well, if I can learn to brush my teeth better, Maybe I can learn to do this better, and this better.

28:23 Because we've set up the structure for it without even realizing. So that we can do all kinds of things we never thought were possible before. And that's, that's like a personal thing. I can think of a, an interpersonal thing is just listening to people. Listening without trying to respond. Just listening. And I can make it really simple like, this is a great story. A good friend of mine, we're living in New York, and we were at the bank and he was in front of me, and he put his deposit down, and the teller took it, and then he said, so how are you doing today? And the teller kind of looked up surprised, surprised. And, and she was like, uh, good.

29:06 Oh, oh good. And they started just a three sentence conversation. And I said to my friend, he was from the Bronx actually. And I said, where'd you learn to do that? And he said, I don't know. So I call that intentional chit chat. You know, and I'm not talking about the smiley face. Hey, how are you? Blah, blah, blah. I'm talking about really paying attention to someone for the moment. When you're out, you know, when you're checking out at the supermarket, how's your day going? And it takes them, it's a surprise. On the phone when you're talking to an airline or a helpline or something, a chat line, to say, busy day? How's it going? You Yeah, I like it makes a big difference with people and it builds on itself.

29:50 It adds up to something and, and I'll tell you, you end up being treated better. As well. So it it, it comes back to us. And of course in my book I've got lots of exercises about liking ourselves more, lots of exercises about being kinder to others, kinder to ourselves. As I said earlier, being kinder to ourselves. That's harder. When I was writing the book and I got to the part about kindness to ourselves, I got blocked for about five years. you got blocked as in you're having a hard time. I couldn't write. I was like, I, I feel, I don't, I thought I understood this, but I don't. Wow.

30:30 I think I had to learn a lot about being kind to myself, which it's not easy. I would say that one of the biggest challenges in being kind to ourself and liking ourselves more is that it's, it sounds so easy. Everyone wants it. But, when we really start doing it, we have to start to investigate all the ways that we get in the way of doing that. All the, all the judgments we have about how others do it, and the ways we think it should be, and to examine ourselves in a way that, with patience, with kindness, to see that, oh, it's something I need to practice, that it doesn't just happen, right?

31:10 Well, at So those five years, what did you do so that you were able to unblock yourself? I'm curious. You know, or I'd write things and it just felt like blah, blah, blah, blah. This is, who cares about this? This doesn't make any sense. And then after a while, I thought, What does it really mean to be kind to myself? It's not just taking myself out to dinner or buying myself a new car. It's, it's really about, Investigating the deeper values I hold about being kind to myself that I didn't know that I had.

31:55 Like, like, for many of us, the idea of finding more pleasure in our life, that's a great value. But we don't realize that most of us, most of us don't realize that we have a threshold for pleasure. If things start feeling too good, people start feeling uncomfortable. Like, what's gonna happen next? I feel like that's a movie thing for me. Whenever like a movie, it gets to a place where everybody's happy and the kids are smiling. And I'm like, something bad's Yeah, yeah, right. That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. But we do that unconsciously with ourselves, too. We don't realize it, that we limit our lives in a way.

32:37 Why? Because of the culture we grew up in, because of the families we grew up in. It's not to fault the culture or our parents or anything like that. It's to understand that I have a fixed, unconscious value about something. And that, uh, I can learn more about it. So, you know, all the things I'm talking about, liking ourselves more, being kinder, being kinder to myself. I'm not done. I'm still encountering it. And, you know, I said it's a challenge, right? It can be a challenge. But the challenge is even beyond what I initially mentioned. Because the better I get at being kinder towards myself and towards others, the better I get at liking myself more, the next rung on the ladder to be kinder or like myself more, the next rung on is even further away.

33:28 Well, what did that next rung on the letter be? If you were to Well, let me, can I read you something from the go ahead. So this isn't from me, this is a quote, one of my favorite quotes from Ram Dass. He says, When you go out into the woods, and you look at trees, you see all these different trees. And some of them are bent. You sort of understand that it didn't get enough light, and so it turned that way. And you don't get all emotional about it, you just allow it. The minute you get near humans, you lose all that. You're constantly saying you're to this and I'm to this. The judgment mind comes in. And so I practice turning people into trees.

34:11 Which means appreciating them just the way they are. So, you know, I travel a lot. I'm in airports a lot. And I think I do something that I think we all do. I'll be looking at some stranger. And I'm making up a story about them. Sometimes it's a good story, sometimes it's a negative story. But it's this meh story in my head. Sometimes it's comparing it to myself. Right? And, you know, the, the, the part that I'm really interested in and trying to help people more is like, how do I catch that moment that I'm doing that? That's tricky. And if I can catch it, then I can do something about it.

34:52 So, of course, I got to the point where I could catch it, But I can't read the whole quote to myself every time. It's too long, right? But what I've learned to do is if I catch it and I'm looking at someone and I just go tree and it's like The whole story I made up just dropped away and I'm just seeing the person but that's not easy to do Right, and I don't expect in my lifetime to be to get to the point where I just look at everyone Like, oh, everyone's a beautiful person. I'm not in that place. You know, so it's, it's a big challenge to, to, to, to learn how to be the person we want to be.

35:33 I want to be, Right. I like that. I haven't heard of that one. That's, that's a good one. And my creative mind is literally turning people into trees. I'm like, what kind of tree would that person look like? And is that person a bush or tree, you know? But the whole idea of, well, the branches and the trees rotate and they tilt towards where the sun is, Shining the most, and I totally get that where people, individuals, we create personas, we have habits, we have likes, dislikes, based off of what shines on us the most, so to speak, culture, parenting, belief structure, and I totally see that comparison, and I really feel like that's a very powerful way to move forward.

36:28 To work with when it comes to just having patience with people, is there anything that you have? So, interesting enough, at the time of this recording, we're, we're about to experience in the U. S. a pretty big solar eclipse. yeah. And are you familiar with the term lunatic, being that the the moon doesn't it? Yes, that's why I said Luna pause tick That effect on people being let's just say less patient with each other. I'm very curious Have you ever thought of that connection?

37:08 And if if yes, what are your thoughts on? What's going on? Now? I'm seeing honestly more Road rage. Oh. Yeah. what are your thoughts on that? Well, let's go back to lunatic for a moment because I think it can be understood in different ways. It's not about people being impatient, just that, it can be that. It's about them losing their inhibitions. So a lunatic could be someone who's just dancing in the street happy, but we get it, we step away from them because they look dangerous all of a sudden, right? And so that, that, that's. That's another way to interpret the idea of lunatic, which isn't a bad thing, right?

37:50 Unless there's no choice in it, unless they can't help themselves. And in terms of the world being angry I think one of the things, and it's connected to patience actually, because I think one of the things that perpetuates that apparent quality, I can't, I don't know for sure if it's true or not, is that everything's going so fast. How many times are you on the helpline with someone, and they apologize for how slow their computer's going? Now, I'm a lot older than you, so I remember when computers were real, when we didn't have computers, and just people were slow, right? And so, so, when, when, and I kind of laugh at it every time someone says that.

38:34 And each time I get a new computer and it's faster, I'm going like, it's faster! And I'm like, the other one was pretty fast. I mean, is this, how fast does it need to be? But I think that speed, I think the internet, especially with social media, where people start creating a sense of liking themselves literally through how many likes they have, you know? I mean, I have a page on Facebook called Like Yourself More, and every day I post something that says, things that make you smile. And if I get like a thousand hits on it, I'm I'm like, wow. I'm like, what am I doing?

39:16 I'm amazing. Yeah. Amazing. But if I get 120, I'm disappointed all of a sudden. It's kind of like, that's not the place where I need to value myself. So our world is going faster and faster. We hear, because we're drawn more to the negative news and the news stations like that. So we hear mostly the negative news and we hear more and more of it and every day we hear about it to the point where we start to feel like, what's the world I'm living in? But as I said in the beginning, that I, I, since I've written the book, I find that people, I see more kindness than I ever saw before. And I'm surprised at it, you know, I'm like, yeah, and I see what you're talking about though, the road rage and you know, road rage when I, I can feel that in myself.

40:05 And so, you know, I can't do the trees when I'm driving. I can't think that driver's a tree. God damn it. You know, what I, what I've learned to do is, and I, it's not easy is that if someone cuts me off, I feel that moment of irritation and anger. And I guess, can I laugh? First of all, am I safe? Yeah, I'm safe. Okay, the guy's a little nutty, yeah. Who knows what's going on in that other car? Who knows if they're trying to get to the hospital because someone's dying? Who knows if they're just super impatient, you know? So, there's, there's a lot to understand about that, take it apart, unpack it in a way that can help us, and all we can do is, is do it as an individual, know?

40:56 I started doing this myself because I spent so much time on the road and maybe it's something similar to what you're helping people with, but I'm used to driving in the fast lane and I have this constant feeling of needing to go faster than everybody. And then, uh, I also on days where I'm really stressed, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to ride the slow lane. I'm going to just, Ride the slow lane and I noticed that I have more patience because I'm not in a rush It's apparent that I'm not in rush because I'm in the slow lane I'm in the first lane. And so when I see a car whizzing past I have this adrenaline rush.

41:38 I'm like, yeah, let's go But then I'm like no they're they're in a rush. I'm in the slow lane. I'm gonna you know what? I've been on this route a hundred times plus I'd never noticed that crazy scenic view of the mountain, or I never noticed those trees Yeah. and it's amazing what happens, or I saw something similar happened to me where I started jogging in the morning when the weather permitted it and. As I'm catching my breath, you have, you have to walk slow and you have to be present because you're, you're trying to breathe at this point. Cause I pushed myself pretty hard, but it, so it was like a forced presence.

42:21 And then I looked up, I'm like, huh, I never noticed that that house's roof is falling apart. Just like stuff that you just did not notice. Well, that's that famous quote of stop and smell the roses, you know, but you know Did you ever have the experience when you're driving fast and someone first come and go so I'll finally just get past them and you Pull off at the exit and all of a sudden they roll up next to you Yes. didn't save any time at all. What was I rushing for? Or, you know, the idea of like, I heard this Buddhist monk talking once on public radio. And he was saying, if you want to practice patience, when you're at the supermarket, get on the longest line.

43:05 And I would remember that. After I got on the shortest line, Oh right? And then, of course, I get on the shortest line, but then the next person in front of me can't find her checkbook, and is dawdling, and how much is it? And it's like taking even longer. And it's almost like it doesn't matter what line or what lane we're in, it's the attitude we bring to each of those situations, you know? How do we just go, Oh, I'm doing this again. That's knowing ourselves. That's a way of knowing ourself that I can, I can, not that I don't have the impatience or the need to rush or something like that, but, but I can, I notice it and I can do something about it.

43:48 There's a choice in it. It's not so compulsive. That's the hard part. And now that I'm, I'm reflecting on myself and speaking of grocery stores, right? My thought is, all right, I got two things I got to pick up. It's a mission. All right. I got to pick up this and this. I'm going to go in there. I'm going to find it. I'm going to find the shortest line or go through the self checkout and then I'm done. Right. And then you go and you have all these lanes and you're like, okay, so by my calculations, I see this. Cart has halfway full and this person, but that's two people in line. And then this line has five people in line, but they seem to be all holding their stuff.

44:29 So how do I calculate this? And so I'm like in the middle of those two, right? And then I'm, so I'm looking at those two lanes, plus anybody who's passing by, if they're going to go into that one or that one. Right. So like that is not healthy. Right. Um, no. you know, but it, it doesn't like help us feel better, you know, or here's a trick. You get in this, in the, in the, in the slow line. And then you see someone behind you with just a few things and you say, you can go ahead of me. Yeah. That really shocks. People are always surprised when I do that, you know?

45:10 And so that's an act of kindness, right? That's giving someone the chance to go in front of you. But then we have to step back for ourselves. And you know what? Sometimes I do that, and then I start getting impatient with them because they're taking so long. And I go, ha ha ha, what did I just do? I just did that. That's crazy, you know? I just said, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I me of, uh, Have you ever seen the movie Fun With, uh, no, no. Me, Myself, and Irene. did, but a long time, remind me of it. So, the main character is Jim Carrey and he has, He ends up going bipolar because he's super, super nice.

45:51 And he lets everybody walk over him. And he's, uh, I think a Rhode Island or Oh, Yeah. And isn't he, doesn't he go to jail in court or something? And he starts being super, he was really nasty. And then he starts being, telling the truth. Or is that another No, that's, that's liar, Oh, sorry. Okay. But, well, so the reason why I brought up this one. Myself and Irene, he goes bipolar and he goes opposite. He has an ultra nice personality, which is what he's used to. And then he just snaps. And the day he snaps is when he's at the grocery store and there's this woman with a cart and he's like, you know what, go ahead. And then she's like, she whistles and she, and then like three more carts of all her kids come.

46:34 And so he's just like, he just snaps. And that, that just, that scene reminded me of like, you be prepared, right. For consequences of being nice. And then, you know. being more mindful of what is going on in your mind. And you know, he, he, he knew himself. He had a whole different experience. He had a whole movie of knowing himself Right. And actually what, what, what, what I hear kind of underneath what you're saying, That I would look at for myself is, Oh, I'm calculating again. Because it's an unknown outcome. You don't know the answer to the calculator. You just gave a great example of that.

47:16 I don't know what the outcome of the calculation is going to be. Whatever my actions are, I really don't know the outcome of it. You know, it's something that, And then, like if I go to a restaurant, And I tip someone with a bigger tip, And there's no acknowledgement of it. Who am I doing that for? For the acknowledgement to me? Or for them? And maybe they're distracted by something? And it's like, oh, I'm making something out of this event. And that's, those are the habits that we can come to know ourselves better. And, you know, we can do that in psychotherapy. We can do that in martial arts. We can do that in, in so many different domains.

47:58 But what I'm suggesting is that we learn to do it through acts of kindness. And that we learn about ourselves, you know, No, I agree. Well, we talked a lot about patience, interesting enough, and the power of acts of kindness, you got a couple of books you have, and I want to give you some time to share. What are you working on? What are you working on right now that someone in the audience based on our conversation? What would they appreciate? I want I'm actually curious myself Okay, so, the one book I wrote, oh, twenty some odd years ago is called Creating Creativity, Embodying the Creative Process.

48:40 And there I explore different concepts in creativity and then give someone a concrete experience of that concept through movement. And then the book that I'm talking about mostly now is called Practice Intentional Acts of Kindness, And that's a workbook. It's concrete things to do. It's not just ideas. You know, some people say, is it about compassion and empathy? I say, of course. But it's about everyday things you can practice. That's the essence of it, because kindness is an action. It's not just a feeling, okay? And then when I'm working on, well, you know, when I finish, every book that I finish, people, what's the next book? I'm like, back off, I just finished this one.

49:23 You know, but there is one that, that's floating around in my head that is, is some of what I talked about before is catching the moment, so that I can make a change. Because if I'm impatient, but I don't recognize it, It doesn't matter. I can't do anything about it. How do I develop it? And the words that most often come forth to do that is awareness. How do I become aware? How do I bring my attention to it? But I'm even looking, I'm actually referring to it now as the pause. How do I create a pause? If you're in a car driving, right, and you're going in one direction and you want to go in reverse, there's something people think, well, I just shift into the reverse.

50:11 But the most important part of that is you have to stop first. Otherwise you're going to trash the transmission. So how do you pause? How do we create more pauses in our life to reflect on the moment that we're in and the choices that might or might not be available to me? So that's what I do. I'm playing with this idea now. That's awesome, what I'm working on personally those pauses I think we all are. Yeah, Yeah, hopefully. and it's a good time for that to the need to pause instead of driving, continuing to drive full speed because you never know where there's going to be a sharp turn.

50:52 And if you're having an American muscle car, you're going to keep going straight, uh, into the wall. And I had a semi experience of that myself, not a wall. It was like a tree, but yeah, it wasn't fun. It was, it was, I was just like, yeah, of course, most of the cars can't make those short turns. Um, but to your point, yeah, those pauses, well, thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate it. I feel like, uh, I, I definitely had some fun chatting with you and talking about being more mindful, being more, more mindful of the acts of kindness and especially turning people into Great, and can I just give my website to you? Yes. Yes. so um, you can find out more about the book at practicing kindness.

51:36 com and the book is available through there. It's also available at Amazon as a paperback, as a, uh, Kindle, as I like to say, instead of Kindle, and also as an audio book as well, okay? And there's also a free sample workbook you can download there, and uh, we're just adding a contact page now, so if you have more questions you can contact me there too, Awesome. Sweet. Yeah. And then also, if you're worried about anybody listening, if you're worried about spelling, that will be in the description. you. No problem. Thanks for coming on my friend. so much, I really enjoyed the conversation.