Double your marketing ROI with Angela Henderson

I can't wait for you to hear this conversation that I had with Angela Henderson. Angela is an international award winning business consultant and coach, a speaker and a podcaster, who helps women around the world make more money by creating a personalized business strategy and mastering their mindset. So they can create a business and life they love and want to show up for every single day. How good does that sound? We're going to dive into all of the tips and tricks to actually make this happen, how you can get visible the top three ways that you can get visible and how Angela thinks about this just a little bit differently, which I think is just so perfectly suited for the conversations that we've been having on this podcast over the last little while. So if you are ready to shine in your business, to start attracting more leads, and to grow your brand tune in now.

This is the Entrepreneur School Podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur to CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under 3am. A corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show. You'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey, and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to Entrepreneur School.

Welcome Welcome, Angela to Entrepreneur School. I'm really excited to talk to you about your super cool visibility strategies that are working in your business today.

Yes, I'm so excited to be here. I felt a Canadian I know when we were talking and reaching out. I almost fell over I obviously live in Australia now but you're very close to my hometown back in Canada. So I was like so excited when I woke up here in Australia this morning knowing I got to speak with a fellow Canadian so pumped to be here.

Exactly. And we're having like the opposite side of the world conversations about the weather and how like summer is over Canada. They're just about to get really nice over and Australia to have jealous.

Yes, I know. But I do miss the summer like I mean, I missed the winters back home like waking up on Christmas Day. And you've got like the stillness on the roads and you've got the snow and the icicles hanging. So those that other than that, like I'm I'm quite happy to still be on the beach here in Australia.

Yeah, I've never had a beach Christmas. I'm glad to say I just can't wrap my head around it still at this stage of my life. So maybe one day I don't know.

One day you can come over we'll host you all they do is eat like shrimp and they drink beer and they go to the beach and do you might have like a hot dog. It's a very different types. No, no, there's no gravy. There's no mashed potatoes. There's no jerky, it is still very odd for me to have Christmas in Australia.

No 27 course meal.

No, not not at all.

Okay, awesome. Well love, like first of all, I actually have to say that this is one of the great things and then we're gonna have to kind of unpack and talk about like connections and collaborations as part of our conversation today. Because like the internet allows us to reach out to people all over the place. So it's so amazing that I can connect with you on the other side of the world that we can have this conversation and bring it to anybody who's listening from all over the world as well, which I absolutely love. So okay, so let's start with visibility strategies because like I said to you before we started recording, I'm a visibility strategist, communications marketing has been my game for the last 15 years. And the thing that bothers me the most is people kind of touting the this is the way to do it kind of works when there's truly so many different approaches that work. So can you like add to that contextualize with what you were telling me? Before we started recording?

Yeah, absolutely. In my experience of being in business, I've personally found for me that there's only three ways to gain visibility. And when I made three ways, there's three main headers is what I'm talking about. Header. Number one is that organic visibility strategy where you are showing up on social media, like you're gonna post you're gonna create a lot of content, etc. It could also be that you might host your own podcast, you and I both have our own podcast, it could be that you host your own YouTube channel. It could be that you're on Tik Tok, whatever it is, organically. But what I found organic works, but it's definitely a long term strategy. You're not going to see immediate wins right off the bat. Typically, in my experience, there's always the 1% rule, but typically, it takes longer and what you're doing is you're exchanging time right for conversion. And so that works. And I believe we all should have a little bit of organic sprinkled in here and there. The next is partnerships. Partnerships doesn't take as long to grow. But what you do, you're exchanging time and energy because you really have to build these mutual relationships with each other. Because you can't just be like, hey, like, I couldn't have just emailed you and be like, hey, Kelly, get me on your show. That wouldn't have worked, you would have been Who is this lady? What is she doing? We had a, we went back and forth on Instagram, we had conversations, we got to know each other, and then you invited me on to the podcast, right? So it's, you're exchanging time and energy, because you really have to nurture and value those relationships that you're building. But partnerships can be things like doing an email swap, a podcast swap, it could also be things like, a giveaway together, for example, it could be there's like a million different ways to skin a cat. All right, but partnerships, it's, you're utilizing their audience normally, and they're utilizing yours in order to get visible. And then obviously, there's paid and paid is really great. But then you're exchanging money. And not everyone has money when they first start off in business to be having a nice, lucrative budget for marketing. But there's so many ways there, you've got, obviously Facebook ads, Pinterest, ads, billboards, if you still want to do that magazines if it still works for you. But the other thing there too. And another big thing that we've been working on, which we can talk more later about is paid media paid sponsorship. And so if there's people that you don't collaborate with, in the partnership, having, you could then go and pay someone to get on their email, pay someone to put you in front of their social media. And that's also another tactic that we've been using this year. So in my perception of business is that there's those three ways organic visibility, partnership, visibility, paid visibility. And when you infuse all of those together, what you kind of have is this thing, what they call in the online space like that. omnipresence, people will start saying, I see you everywhere, even though you might not be everywhere. Does that make sense? Like I saw you on this podcast, I saw you doing a masterclass, I saw you over here. And what happens is you're sprinkling digital breadcrumbs all over of what you are. And those breadcrumbs will eventually make a cookie precise. And then that's when you start to see the conversion. So yeah, I encourage people to think about where are they infusing organic partnerships, or paid visibility strategies into their business?

Yes, I love that, and especially what you were saying about having a combination of each of those things as you can, because that's gonna get you in front of different audiences and on different platforms where different people are seeing you, when they're experiencing their content in a variety of ways, right, like thinking about, you're literally you, they're like, I use Instagram, I listen to podcasts, I like to go to events. So if you're at all of those things, I'm going to see your face all the time.

What I would say, though, is be mindful, like we you and I are just given some examples. If you're listening out there, don't think please don't think that you now need to go and do all those things. Vicent, creating a visibility strategy is really, really important that it is in alignment with you. First of all, I hate LinkedIn, I would rather gouge my frickin eyeballs out, then be over there that someone might be like, but I saw you on LinkedIn. Okay, we use a tool called Agora Pulse. And whatever we post on Instagram and Facebook, where I like to be, you can tick the box for it to go to LinkedIn. So we tick the box for it to just get posted there. So something's getting posted. But we're not we don't have an active LinkedIn strategy. All right. And so I don't, I don't want to go to that platform. Because that like I said, I'd rather gouge my eyes out. But I like showing up on Instagram, because it's light. And it's easy. I like showing up on Facebook. It's light and easy. I like to podcast, it's light and easy. Do things that are in alignment and feel light and easy for you and don't drag you down. Because energy is everything. Vibration is everything. And if you if I showed up on LinkedIn, people would no I don't even want to be there. So I'm not going to attract the right people. And that again, you don't have to do everything. And so I just want to cater to that. Because a lot of people will be like, well, I'm going to start podcasting. Let's go study to channel, no, figure out what lights you up. And then the second thing is make sure that your ideal clients and audiences on that platform. So if you're starting a podcast, for example, and your ideal audience, let's say just happens to be janitors. All right, and they don't listen to podcasts because they're busy doing whatever, that's probably you can still do a podcast as it lights you up. But understand your ROI Return on Investment isn't going to be the same if your ideal audience is set if business owners and they're consuming podcasts all the time so I just wanted to say that because I get that a lot. Well just go and do all these things. No, no, no. Stop overcomplicating your business and do more of what's in alignment with you and choose those organic partnerships are paid, and you will see things accelerate with ease and with flow.

Oh I 100% and modding though much over here. Big Because, yes, we can so easily get ourselves overwhelmed, right with the idea like, Okay, now because there's 97 different social media platforms and a new one popping up every other day. And I'm supposed to use video. And I'm supposed to be on my stories all the time. And I'm supposed to tag people. And he's like, What is all of this? And then what happens is you get like frozen in over CSS paralysis, right? And then you're not actually doing any of the things to put yourself out there and get the visibility. So what advice do you have for people who are trying to figure out kind of what way to go first?

Or maybe it's just important to like, think about like how we were. But if you if you didn't have a business, where are you showing up? Are you listening to podcasts? Do you mean about parenting or health? Are you already on Facebook, in different Facebook groups, and that I was like, go back to what you already know, sometimes, I'm not saying don't learn a new trick did I mean, but go back to what you already know. Because you are talking very clearly Kelly about that state of overwhelm. And that paralysis, you won't even know where to start. When I first started out in my consulting business, I actually had one of Australia's leading econ businesses before I started off, so I kind of dabbled on things. But when I started the consulting business, I started just with Instagram, and a face and Facebook. That's all I had. And I did that really, really well for the first year. Because the thing is, is those platforms expected to do different things from a strategic point of view. So I had to learn how to really leverage Facebook in my Facebook group, and I didn't really learn what did Instagram want me to do that was before didn't mean reels, and video content was very big. And then what we did is then I brought on the podcast. And then I figured out how to double down on the podcast and what I needed to do, how I needed to repurpose it, etc, then we brought on ads. And then like we brought on Facebook ads, for example. And then we brought on Pinterest ads a year after that it didn't happen all at once. So I encourage you to choose one or two visibility strategies that are going to light you up. And it feels easy with execute those first before you start layering the others. Because if not, you're literally that saying you're throwing spaghetti at a wall, that's what you're doing. Each strategy is different. LinkedIn wants you to do something different to meet their algorithm. Tick tock wants you to do something different to meet their algorithm, even with SEO is another search engine optimization is another visibility strategy that you can do organically or paid. But the reality of it is is you have to meet the needs of what Google wants you to do. How do you choose a keyword? How do you put it on your h1 and h2 headers, meta descriptions, etc. So choose one or two Max, learn the strategy for those platforms to get the biggest return on investment? And then and only then if you want to add something else?

Oh, yes. I, again, completely in agreement that it's a stacking approach, right, where you're looking at over time, as you actually get some feedback, get some momentum, get some results from what you're doing. So what do you look at when it comes to that ROI piece in terms of figuring out what is actually effective?

So I'll look at Google Analytics, for example. So I will go into Google Analytics on the backend on my computer every month, and my team will run a report for me and we will look at things like how much traffic do we have? What pages are they landing on? Like, like, what is it that they're doing? We also measure discovery calls, how many discovery calls are we getting? But all of those, when people go to the discovery call, we're able to measure it even better, because we'll ask where did you hear about us? And so and we give them SEO? Like, do you find us on Google was another pod? Like, how did you find us? And then when we onboard a client, we'll ask them again, how they found us because sometimes people will just say they found us one way, but really, they found us another way. And that so that's what we do. And what we've found is referrals is always our number one conversion 100%. Because people were talking about this before we press record, people know like and trust you already there quicker to conversion than a cold audit, like a cold person. podcast for us is a set is a close second. And our third is our SEO. So we double down on those efforts, for example. Now there's a thing called and I was just pulling it up just so that I made sure that I said it correctly. There's the Pareto principle, and I thought I could always have to look at the name of it because I always mess it up. But the Pareto principle states that roughly 80% of our outcomes come from 20% of our efforts. So if you think about business, for example, that it suggests that a significant portion, or an 80% of our business revenue or success is generated by a relatively a small fraction of its activities or products. So what I see a lot of people do is they'll then have 80 Different things that they're offering to their clients, again on 80 different platforms, but you only need to be looking at what's the 20% of activities that's actually generating you the 80% of income and double down on that. So like I said, We double down on podcasts, we double down on collaborations, we double down on SEO. That's it. Because that's where we know and we've tested many things. Being on Instagram, Instagram stories will work well for me. But if you were to go to my Instagram account now, other than just posting our weekly podcast, so that I create zero fresh content on that platform, whereas I would used to spend probably four hours a month writing, creating all this juicy content. And I mean, it just doesn't get the leverage and whatever anymore, but stories do. So it's easy for me to do a story, but I'm not going to go and create written content for Instagram anymore. It doesn't make sense. So what we have done since February this year, is we now do instead of one podcast per week, we now do two podcasts per week. So I quit to say how I bought my time back, I quit writing those four hours of Instagram posts per month. And I now do an extra hour of podcasting a week, right, which still equals four hours a month of content, but on doubling downwards giving me maximum results.

Mm hmm. Yep. I love that. And that's so smart to you. Because we can sometimes just go like, I think I need to do this, or I think I need to do that. And then we forget about checking if it's working. The So can you give a little context, though, to sort of if you think there's a sweet spot for the amount of time that you need to spend on one particular tactic like, one thing or whatnot before you, you know, toss in the towel, like I know, I'm sure that you posted on Instagram for more than two months before you decided to not post on Instagram anymore?

Well, I think there's two things that I'll talk about. One is what that question that you just asked me, How long do I keep doing something, but then remind me because I have ADHD that the next thing is I did a summit last year where I brought on like a top YouTube or top Instagram or top podcast while I did the podcasting, Facebook ads Google Ads person and we had this debate amongst each other about things. So remind me to talk about that. But the first thing is is in podcasting, most people quit podcasting between episodes, seven and 10 episodes. Yeah, so when I started podcasting, knowing that statistic, I paid upfront for a half year of podcasting editing team. And I thought if I did one episode per week, for 26 weeks, I've made surpassed the goal of what the average podcaster is. And in six months, I'll generally be able to start looking at whether or not this is viable for me. Starting a podcast you need to be very clear about but what is your goal? Is your goal or discovery calls? Or is your goal creating connections with other people for long term collaborations? What is your goal, my goal was both of those things. So I'd already reached my goal of having amazing people speak on my podcast for half a year. That was phenomenal. But I didn't start seeing higher conversions from discovery calls to clients till about the four month mark. And even now, because when people work with me, it's a minimum of $500 per month for one of our programs is we know because it's a more higher ticket program per se, that it typically takes them list in the podcast between four to six months before they'll convert with me. So I have to know that there's a longer runway. But for me, I gave it six months for podcasting because I knew I could see short term and long term data. Instagram, I definitely mean I've been on Instagram, gosh, for years, dude. I mean, but it's only been recently when they started to make all these changes with reels and video content, written content. I don't want to do rails, and I don't want to have to do video content. It's just not what I like to do. I don't want to do it. It doesn't feel like I feel like I'm gonna have better lighting that I've got to be showered and whatever I can, like I literally rolled out of bed showed up to this podcast and then my slippers, I made a hoodie and I'm in my shorts do I mean like, I can shut the camera off? Right? So doing Instagram Stories is easy, right? But I wasn't gonna do what Instagram wants me to do with their algorithm with video content. So I was like, why keep slogging a dead horse student I mean, if I'm not going to do what Instagram wants, Tik Tok, same thing, it's video content. I don't want to do video content. LinkedIn, you get spammed as far as I'm concerned in a million different ways. That's how I feel about it. So for me it was like podcasting six months Instagram. I've been on there for a long time, but then reassessed with the charts started to change algorithm. And my Facebook group we still use, but it is one of the decisions that we'll make by the end of the year, whether or not it's worth our ROI anymore and whether or not even though there's 8000 people in that group. It is quite Active whether or not we'll shut it down and free me up space to potentially then do three episodes on the podcast for a week. So yeah, so I hope that helps to explain a little bit.

Exactly. I love that that's such good context, right for people to think about, like, how long will I try something it's and I always think that this is all like, you know, going to the gym when your goal is just to be healthier, right? That you're not going to be healthier by doing 10 Push Ups one time, you're going to have to continue to do it and build upon it and then change your exercises and, you know, odoi happening and all of that. So, so perfect. So tell me about the debate on the summit.

Yeah, so the debate because obviously, that's what everyone says, What platforms should they be on? So it was Justin Brown, and I Justin's top, like YouTube, and it was me around podcasting. So should it be podcast or YouTube? It was Instagram vs. Tik Tok. And then it was Google Ads versus Facebook ads. And there's just this very fun banter. And what we decided is every platform is perfectly perfect. Depending on what you want to do, there was no wrong or right platform. The other interesting thing that came out of the debate was when we all because we're all doubling down on each of those platforms, and not going and doing a million different things is on average, all of us are spending about two hours per week on our particular platform. So because we understand that, so podcasting is my big thing. So on spending time creating the questions, curating guests, in the mean, doing whatever it was my team, Justin is doing like the produces one good video a week, but it's really highly SEO optimized, high quality video planning, whatever, say move with Facebook ads, Google ads, it's like hi, didn't we planned and thought, and then with Brooke, for example, a big Instagram person over here in Australia, she's spending so much time on DMing, right back and forth, and making sure she's using the platform correctly. Same thing with tick tock. So it was fascinating that all of us are pretty much spot on hour and 45 to two hours, 15 minutes on each platform. So again, the importance of choosing a platform and doing it well was demonstrated across all those platforms for each of us, you know, so whereas if you're trying to get if you're starting out, and you're only doing 20 minutes on Instagram, 15 minutes on Facebook, 10 minutes on YouTube, you're not going to get the same volume and push, because you're spreading yourself thin. And you're again, not doubling down on those strategies that are needed for each of the platforms. So it was still about two hours on average for each of us to produce all those platforms and get a return on investment by producing good quality content.

That makes so much sense. It's like, can you focus on doing one thing really, really well to get it working for you. Like make that your priority, especially before thinking about expanding into all of the realm of all other places that you can be online.

And I know for me, like at time of recording with you today, tomorrow will be my 300th episode on the podcast. Congrats. And it's it's one of those things where like, it's the one thing that I had been consistent on one podcast has dropped every week for almost five years. And now we're doubling to two, right? But it's paying off. I pretty much I've never had someone tell me no, they wouldn't come on my podcast. So I can pretty much reach out to anyone now because they're like, I've got credibility, I've got authority, I've got trust, they're like, well, she's been doing this for five years, there's got to be something behind. So the opportunities that come to me are endless. Also, because I've have threaded episodes like I was telling you before, I've been to like over probably close to 200 podcasts as a guest because I can either do a guest swap with people, or people are gonna like, Oh, she's got credibility for her own podcast, she must know how to speak on a podcast. So therefore we'll bring her on. But also speaking engagements have come from this, I remember is that Social Media Marketing World in San Diego before COVID. And one of the things that might sell is no, the owner of social media marketing said was when he was looking for speakers for upcoming years was if I have to choose between someone that has a podcast and someone doesn't, I'll choose the person with the podcast, because I know they're using their voice, it might they might not be a polished speaker, but they'll be more polished than someone who's not using their voice every single week. So again, it's not just about getting a new client on a booking call. It was for me thinking bigger picture about how I leverage this asset for short term and long term growth.

And one thing I want to pick up in there, can you speak to the power or like the role you see inconsistency?

Yeah, listen, you're talking to someone who has floored ADHD and so I can come at sit at my desk with a game plan and that shit changes 84 times and one minutes all right. However, podcast is the one thing that I've been consistent on now I'm can tell you I used to be able to what I was doing one episode per week, I could have like 1215 20 episodes batched It was phenomenal. But now that I'm doing Two podcasts a week. I'm like scrounging most days doing me to make sure my team have what I want. But the power is there. But for me, Cal, it's just like, the consistency has been huge. It hasn't been easy, but it's paid off. But again, I've chosen one. So there's two consistent things that I typically do in my business, that in my weekly newsletter, I think I've missed in domain 30 or 16 years of being in business. I've probably missed 10 weekly newsletters like I could probably count on our hands didn't I mean, how many eyes Miss podcasting? I've never missed any when we transition from it used to be called the the business and life conversations show with Angela Henderson. We rebranded in February this year to the Angela Anderson Online Business Show. When we did that I was advised by my podcast crew to give it one week to lay dormant so that when we relaunched it helps us get in the church quicker. Because it looks like it's a new podcast, right? Like because it laid dormant. So I didn't miss it on purpose. I missed it strategically, gentlemen, for the launch of the next one. So yet newsletters and podcasts consistent, it's not always easy. But the rewards have paid off. But I'm also only focusing on two things, not a million things.

Oh, yeah. Because imagine trying to be considered like being consistent as you've just acknowledged, it's challenging, as it was 10 being considered 10 different ways you're promoting yourself and things that you're doing is basically impossible. So yes, let's not go there. I think that this whole episode has been permission to choose what excites you, and what lights you up, make sure that you stick to it for a while if I can summarize for you. And then make sure to look at the impact that it's having. Is it helping you actually reach your goals?

100%? Because if it's not, then why are you doing it? You know, I hear this people all the time, like, I've got all I have to do it this way. But why? Who told you you have to do it that way. But that's what I read. And that's why I believe like your business plan. Can't be cookie cutter. It has to meet you your needs. Because when I work with businesses, for example, I don't people just assume that a business coach just looks at strategy. Yes, I look at strategy. Yes, I create a business plan. Yes, I give you accountability. But I also look at your health, I look at your mental health, your spiritual health, your physical health. I also look at wealth, your personal wealth, your business, wealth, generational wealth. And I also look at relationships, your relationship to yourself, your relationship to friends and family, in your relationships to community. And the reason why I do that is as an ex mental health clinician of 15 years where I used to diagnose people with schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, anxiety, is you can't diagnose someone with a diagnosis unless all symptoms are in all areas of life. So business has to be the same way you cannot go because someone told you to do it this way or that. So the blueprint they gave you, you will always need to adapt it to you and your business, your home life, your goals and your needs. Because if you are unaligned, you will not have the money you want.

Hmm, that is that is deep. I love that. And so important to be looking holistically at everything. Oh my gosh, this has been like such a juicy conversation. And I'm like, over here going, Are we the same person? Do we share a brain because I fell in alignment and agreement with every single thing that you said? Is there any like a final words of wisdom that you wanted to share?

I'd say with people, you know, you're right on time. Often we're trying to manipulate things and really run for masculine energy. I'm a very masculine energy person, but learn to surrender. Learn to remember that you're exactly where you need to be. You can always change you can always pivot and you can always evolve. But trust the process, double down on you believe in you. And you do you because as soon as you find you and you're in alignment, money flows, blind flows. And so again, that's what I would be my final words.

That's so good. Okay, so you mentioned your podcast, and you say it again, so people can go and subscribe and let them know where they can connect with you.

Yeah, so it's the Angela Henderson online business show that you can find on all major platforms. And if you want to connect deeper or you know, explore working with me or whatever, you can head to Angela henderson.com. Today, you again, I work with people one on one. I've got two different masterminds, I run retreats in Bali in Australia. So if you ever want to come to Bali or Australia, come on over. And yeah, that's That's me in a nutshell. But again, come and find me in a way that works for you. So if it's to listen to my podcast, listen to my podcasts. If it's come and say hi on Instagram, come and say hi, do things that are easy for you and I just look forward to welcoming you into my world whatever way that looks like.

So good. Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks so much, my friend. Have a great day back home.

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