Michelle Hammons Pulls the Curtains Back on Coaching | DFS 384

Welcome to Destin for success, and today's

guest is super special. My friend Michelle Hammons is

coming on, and we're going to talk about coaching, the need

for coaching. And I actually met Michelle online, and right now I

don't remember it was if it was a coaching event or in a

mastermind that we're in together, but we met online

first, and we both live in Oklahoma, and there aren't a

whole lot of coaches in Oklahoma that we know or that do high

performance coaching, which we both do. So like we're almost

next door neighbors. She's two hours away in Tulsa. I'm in

Oklahoma City, Michelle, welcome to the show, and let's talk

coaching.

Oh, awesome. Jennifer, so happy to be

together with you again. And yes, as fellow ops, as they say,

I'm super excited that we're in this journey together and really

to help talk about this very important topic and what

coaching is. I think it's a very misunderstood industry, and I

think people don't really know what it means. And so I'm super

excited to have this conversation.

Well, me too, and I just heard recently from

someone, and for those of you who are listening to this on

audio, you don't see it, but I'm doing air quotes, she goes, Yes,

somebody was talking to their life coach. And life coaching is

a very valid profession. I think the name has gotten kind of

watered down for any number of reasons, but most of the

coaching we do is like business coaching and business coaching,

personal coaching, and it's under the umbrella of high

performance coaching. So why don't you tell us a little bit

about the benefits of coaching? Because you've got what, 75

hours in on one on one, coaching with clients.

Yes, I mean 500 hours. How many

did I say?

Yeah, just 75 but yes, a comma and a 00. No,

just a

few comments and a zero, those don't matter. No, I really

appreciate the just the platform to talk about this, because, you

know, a lot of us have kids, or we've, we've maybe in a setting

at some point in our life, being a kid, or along the way, you had

somebody that coached you or mentored you. Sometimes these

terms get interchange. But what we're really talking about here

is professional coaching, and today, professional coaching

comes as in as many varieties as you could possibly imagine.

There are coaches for every kind of skill set and industry that

is out there, and coaching and consulting often gets confused a

little bit too, because the distinction I would make for you

here, if you're listening, is consulting is really where

somebody comes up with solution. You pay for that solution, and

they deliver that solution. In coaching, it's a very

collaborative process to get you to your own answers, and so a

coach might have insights about certain topics or things, which

is why there's so many different varieties of coaching available.

And so that's always helpful, because sometimes you don't know

what you don't know, that's what that's part of the process. But

being coached is you coming up with your own answers through

the growth and the integration of new ideas and new thoughts

and new questions. And so I think a lot of us think, you

know, when, when we have small kids, or when we work in we got

a soccer coach, we got a gymnastics coach, we got a voice

coach. And I like to call this coaching for adulting. We don't

think about it for as adults that we might need support in

the journey. And there's one other distinction I'll draw, and

then I'll turn it back to you, and that is, sometimes coaching

and counseling get a little bit confusing, and so in counseling

and therapy, that is very clinical, and it's also

regulated, and it's very specific to resolving past

issues. In coaching, we kind of draw that line in the sand, and

we're always working into the future, because the future is

actually what we can change. We can't even actually go back to

the beginning of this call, so we really want to be future

focused, future outcome driven. And those are some of the things

that are the distinctions between, like coaching,

counseling and consulting. So I'll turn it back to you.

Jennifer, well, I love

this so much, and I have hired coaches, and

I'm going to say they call themselves more of a business

coach, like to help you get your business going, business

strategist. But where they fell short was they didn't tell me

what to do. Like, it was all an ideas brainstorming thing, but

then tactically, I didn't know what to do next like I was, I

was on my own to go figure it out and research it. And what I

have found in my time in this arena of High Performance

Coaching is there's a framework that we follow to get that

forward thinking. And as much as. The client needs to come up

with a solution on their own, because guess what? All the

answers are within us. Sometimes we have to guide and give

possible select scenarios or possible solutions. I was

working with a client who is a triathlete, and we were talking

about the topic of energy, and my first thought was, I love

athletes. I love sports, but like, I'm not the athlete. And

so I had a little apprehension when it came to this topic,

because I thought he probably has way more energy than I ever

dreamed of having. And we started going through the

possibilities of like, well, what if, like, trying to get him

to decide what would make a biggest difference in his

training. And it came down to water. And he said, I don't, I

don't think I drink enough water. And I said, I interviewed

on my podcast, former NFL player, and he said he goes to

bed with a 24 ounce bottle of water by his bed, and before he

leaves his bed, he drinks that whole bottle in the morning to

get more water. And I've told that story so many times, and I

just kind of drop it like everybody should know that by

now. And he goes, I can do that. Yes, I'm going to start doing

that. I'm going to start drinking more water. So it is a

conversation, it is a give or take. It is a collaboration. But

I was never going to tell the guy, if you don't drink more

water, you're not going to be a good triathlete, right? It was

just like, well, one thing you could possibly do, and then he

took it and ran. So that, to me, makes it super special that

we're not telling anyone what to do. We are giving them the

information so they can choose. It's all about choice and

forward thinking, yeah.

And to add to that, I would say if, if we were

to put this in a little bit different, more layman's terms,

I would say we're like professional extractors, because

think about this, think about the skill set you have for if

those, those of you who are listening, the things that we're

good at are the things that we often neglect, right? So if

you're an accountant, you might not do your own taxes, or you

might not do your own accounting. Or if you're you, if

you're a self care person, you might not do your own self care,

right? These are just examples that I'm throwing out here. And

so a coach is going to help you come in and not only get

clarity, and I should really talk to the pillars of high

performance, because you mentioned high performance and

certification. And so both Jennifer and I are certified in

High Performance Coaching by the High Performance Institute. And

why that is an important thing for you to know is because some

coaching programs are based and you should ask these questions

if you're looking for a coach, some coaching programs are built

and based on, well, I had a great experience. So now let me

sell you my my my philosophy, or my framework, or whatever it

might be. And there's nothing wrong with that, except for you

also have to know, is it, is it tested, right? Is it really

proven? And so in the coaching certification we're talking

about, this is something that's been studied, like, why high

performers are high performers? What are the habits and routines

that keep them performing at their best, and there was a lot

of study and measurement scientifically that went into

it, and it's outcome driven. So those are two really

distinctions when we talk about what we want, when we invest our

dollars to get support and help us go achieve our goals, is we

want to make sure that you've got a method and framework

that's been proven and valid and has some science to back it up.

And as you know, you're going to get results from it. And

everybody's results are different, because even if we

have two exact people that have the same, maybe family DNA, you

know, maybe whatever that is for you, just family scenarios, they

could be identical. But our goals, our dreams, our

aspirations, our interests, our hobbies, all of those things are

different. So I can tell you from the 1000s and 1000s of

sessions I've done, not one session if they might kind of

have some similarities, but they're really all very unique

to the person. Because while some people value maybe things,

other people value experiences. And so the goals and things are

going to be differently oriented around the person that you're

actually working with. So we all have blind spots, and that's an

area that I think coaches really help us unpack, but it's also

about the clarity that really comes from having someone

expertly skilled at digging what's in you out of you, so you

can actually make it work because your ideas, your excuse

me, your dreams and goals, they're all really important and

and sometimes we leave them in here, or sometimes they're just

stirring around there. So having a guide and a coach is going to

help you unpack those things in a way that. It's so different

than you doing it by yourself,

and working with the coach is like a

fingerprint. So every time we have a client call, it's a

different experience. And I have not done nearly as many calls as

you have done. I don't have that many hours in but it's like

every every interaction is different, their hopes, their

dreams, their goals, are different. And if there's one

thing that hasn't has just really set in, for me in the

last couple years that I've heard from various personal

development growth type books, is the idea that if you're not

growing, you're dying. And the real benefit of coaching is

you've set a goal, you set a dream, you have an expectation,

and when you are working towards that, you're growing, not dying.

And that's just like a real critical piece in the book, oh,

what is it called? Younger next year at the beginning of it, he

makes, the author makes the comment that he wants to to fall

off a cliff when he dies and not sit in a recliner. And I was

like, wait, what? And I do not have that quote right at all.

But the point was, he wants to live his life to the fullest and

then drop dead, not sit in a recliner until it comes to the

time that he can no longer get up out of the recliner, right?

So by having coaching, especially, especially as you go

through life, because we have all these different phases and

stages. It keeps you in that growth mentality, that forward

movement, and I like how you said, it's the coaching that you

and I do is all based on the future, and what do you want

your future to look like? And we don't relive the past, even in

my energy healing, you may or may not remember what happened,

but here's the deal, we're just going to clear it and keep

going.

Yeah, yeah, because the only outcomes we can

change is is in the future. We've learned from the past, and

certainly we have experiences that shape what our future is

going to look like. So when I say we don't really go into the

past, we're not looking to go in and solve problems or resolve

issues from the past. From a clinical or therapist

perspective, doesn't mean that, like if I'm divorced, or if I

moved across the country when I was, you know, 30 or whatever,

that those things don't those conversations don't have impact,

because some some of those things build who we are, and

they also are those moments of courage we go back to to say, if

I made it through that, I can make it through something else.

I can reach higher. I can aim bigger. I can be more bold. I

can kind of wake myself up back to my life that I want to live,

because it's super easy right now out there in the world to be

on mission drift. You know, we've got a lot of things pining

for our attention, between media messages, social media messages,

the gloom and doom, the media and the news that's out there,

like you could literally wake up and think, I don't know if I'm

going to make it through the day. So it's important that we

take those reins of control and go, You know what if I don't

like the way? And this happened really during covid as well.

Good example, the coaching demand went way up during covid,

because people had to go home and they realize I don't like my

house, I don't like the city I live in, the state I live in,

the job I have, the person I live with, the person I'm

married to. And so it generated all this greatest relocation. I

changed. There was a lot of people who silently quit. We

heard that term. And so we go through the that was like a big

phase the whole world went through that. I know all of you

probably had some experiences from but now it's like, okay,

but of the runway ahead, what do I really want to do? If I really

got bold and tactical with my time and my energy and my

resources, what do I really want? And that is the question

that we're always drilling down in in the coaching process,

I've had conversations of late about life

and being in control of it, and oftentimes we can say I didn't

have any control. It just happened. You know, life just

happens to me, and even when some people don't say that

distinctly and clearly, the choices they make and the things

that are happening in their lives, it's very evident. Now.

It's like, oh, the blinders are off. They're just letting life

happen and just being unhappy about it. And I want to submit

to you. You You don't have to do that. You can take charge. You

can set boundaries. You can have hopes and dreams. Not only are

you allowed to your it's kind of your God given right and demand

to have hopes and dreams for a better and brighter future, and

you're the only one that can make that happen, and the

fastest way to get there is with the. Coach that can guide you on

that path.

Yeah, and Jennifer, as you reflect on

that, the thing that comes up is it doesn't matter if you're a

young a young adult, a young person, or if you're at the end

of the spectrum of your season of your life, that's later in

life, like I was talking to my dad, who happens to be 81 and he

became a widow in 2025 and so he's going through a lot of

transition and life change that you spoke about there, Jennifer

and we, I was having this conversation. I said, you know,

you're not stuck, like, if you don't like the geography, you

can change it. If you don't, if your house is too big, too

small, it's too you need a fresh approach. You can change it.

Like you're not stuck. And sometimes we just get in these

mental ruts where we think, Oh, it's just, it's just too hard,

right? It's too hard to downsize and empty a big house that you

no longer need. But I was like, but that's what movers are for

you. You can make a plan for anything, but you having that

guide to challenge you through the that thinking leaving to

given or left to our own accord. We're just going to opt out.

We're going to go, oh, this is too much. I'm going to go back

to the couch right or back to the recliner. And so that's

human nature, by the way. So if that's you, like, if you feel

stuck or foggy or fuzzy or something's resonating here,

it's probably time to talk to somebody about what the heck you

can do to move yourself. And when we start to move, all of a

sudden, life feels different, right? I have clients that move

cross country, though they say I live in the where it snows, and

now I want to go live on the beach, and I'm like, Okay,

what's keeping you from doing that? Well, if I did this, this

and that I could do it. Okay, let's do it, right and do it.

And so making a plan, and it's really wrapped around what they

want. But we don't often give ourselves the time to sit and

contemplate, what do I really what would I like to achieve

here? What would I like to do with my life, with the time I

have, or the resources I have, or the energy I have,

and with that comes the idea of No. And before

I left the federal government, I said no to so many things my mom

had taught me. You have to be so responsible. You have to say no.

You have to do this. No, no, no. And it was coming really close

to the time that I was leaving and somebody was having a party,

and there was a group of us, ladies who all came together two

or three times a year for business trips, and we were all

within 10 years of each other age wise. So we not only did we

collaborate on work, we also loved hanging out with each

other. And one of the ladies was having everybody up for a party

because we were all mass exodus at the same time. And I said,

No, I can't do that. I'm I'm going to be leaving. My income

is going to go down like I can't afford it. I can't go. And she

said, We're never all going to be together again. You have to

come and all of a sudden it dawned on me, I have a car. I

was going to Kansas City. It was five and a half hour drive,

which is totally doable. I could afford gas for the car, and I

had points for a hotel, and I went. But sometimes our initial

response to things is no. And when you start listing the

things you want, then those no's start getting thrown out the

window, and then you can see clearly and find a path. Um,

Michelle, this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you

for being here today. And if somebody wants to get hold of

you. How do they do that?

So you can reach out to me on LinkedIn, at

Michelle Hammonds, or you can look up my website, which is

creativity playbook.com and there's no www in front of that,

and just to make it easier, and or you can reach out via text or

phone. All that information is out there on the internet, as

they say, and and I invite you if you've never talked to a

coach. And by the way, this does feel a little intimidating. I

think sometimes most coaches you will approach, they're willing

to have a conversation with you, because they want to understand.

Can I help you? Right? And so there's usually an intake form

that's going to ask some questions that is probably not

something that's going to be too much in your comfort zone,

because they're trying to get at the root of, like, what is it

that you're looking for, and am I the right kind of coach?

Because, as I said in the beginning of this call, there's

a lot of different kinds. So I encourage you, if you are

looking for a coach, and you can go to my website and you can ask

for a conversation, because that's where it all starts,

because we need to qualify what you what is it you're looking

for? Am I the right person, or is there somebody better right

that might be able to help you? So just keep that in mind as you

think about this topic for yourself. But it will require

you show up for you, and that's an important piece. So you can

find me on any of those outlets that I mentioned.

I. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, thank you for

being here. And we'll have all the contact information in the

show notes so you can, you can reach out and find Michelle.

Michelle, this has been an awesome conversation. I've loved

partnering with you, and we put together a program, which I'm

sure you'll find out all over the interwebs and that we have

coming up. So thank you for being here. Thank you for

sharing your insights on coaching after you're either

7500 or 75,000 whatever hours of coaching. And do you have any

final words for our audience?

You know, something that does, does stand

out to me is I worked with somebody you may that has a

philosophy of celebrating what's right in the world. His name is

DeWitt Jones. He's a keynote speaker. You may have heard of

him. You can google him, but he said something that really stood

out to me. He said it most things in life, there's more

than one right answer, and I love that perspective. He was

talking about it from a photography perspective, like

showing up in neutral just to see what's see what's developing

here, right even in this call and and I think that's such a

powerful reminder that when we get myopic or we feel stuck,

that we're just feeling so limited. But there's always more

than one right answer.

Oh my gosh, that's so perfect. Thanks for

being here, Michelle. I'm Jennifer Takagi with destin for

success, and I look forward to connecting with you soon.

Thanks, Jennifer. Bye.