Let's Talk Thought Leadership and Podcasting in Canada with Amanda Cupido

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Find yourself in.

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All right.

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Thanks for joining me.

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I'm Nola Simon and I am the host
of Hope and Possibilities, a love

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letter to the Future of work.

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And my guest today is Amanda.

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She is the owner and
founder of lead Podcasting.

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And she's also very a speaker.

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She was recently doing a Ted Talk.

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You've actually been to
attend a Ted AI conference.

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And she actually was involved in doing
the podcasting for Toronto Metropolitan

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University, which happens to be where
my daughter actually goes to university.

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So there's a whole bunch of excitement
with this, especially in this area

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because Amanda is like the first
person who's actually ever driven up

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to Keswick to come and do a podcast
in person in our podcast studio at

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the the library the Merck in Keswick.

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I was the first person to actually
do a podcast about this podcast,

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studio and resource, and Amanda
has added us to her national book

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tour and I feel really validated

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so You're sweet.

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I'm really here 'cause of you.

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So I really appreciate it.

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I love coming out to different
areas across across, of course

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across the country, but especially
in the GTA 'cause I just feel like

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there's a lot of great talent, great
stories and great people like you.

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So thanks for inviting me out and
connecting me with the folks here

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and I'm really happy to be here.

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You're welcome.

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And now that the 4 0 4 is finished,
we can all direct people to say

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you can get to was real easy.

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It's where the 4 0 4 ends.

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Yeah.

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That's a nice tagline.

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That's good.

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No, before I when I first started driving
the 4 0 4 only went to Bloomington.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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Just

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aging me.

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But anyway, so what we wanted
to do was actually talk about

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podcast resources in Canada.

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Quite honestly, when I was learning how
to do podcasting, I didn't actually know

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the only person who actually made me
feel that I could do it again, it was the

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whole six degree separation kind of thing.

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John Lee Dumas is an American podcaster
who happened to work for John Hancock,

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which is where I worked for years.

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And he happens to be he actually left
during 2008 the whole financial meltdown

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there and he started doing podcasting.

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He just fell into it.

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But he started telling a story about
a work situation that I also remember

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in 2008, and I was like, if he can do
it with that background, I can do it.

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And I started looking at all the
resources that are available.

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And so many of them are American.

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And that's the fabulous thing
of Amanda, is she's actually

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written Canadian resources.

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That's it.

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Thank you.

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I like, I think that's important actually
because we tend to look at a lot of

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American resources when it comes to media
and learning and engaging with content.

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And it's nice to have something
that's local and also is leaning

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into the fact that it's local.

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So sometimes we have Canadians who
create content with the North American

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audience in mind, and then they don't
even acknowledge that they're from Canada.

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But I've tried to lean into it.

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So I definitely acknowledge throughout
my book let's talk podcasting that

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we're talking about this show, but
here's the Canadian equivalent, or

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we're talking about these stats, but
here's what's happening in Canada.

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So I always tried to bring
in that, that Canadian lens.

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'cause I think it's important.

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It is really important because it makes
you feel like you belong and that you

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recognize what's happening in your local
area and also like across the country.

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And you're starting to
recognize that you're not alone.

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Yes, exactly.

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When you actually look at like the
charts, like if you go to Apple and you

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look at the top charts on Apple it's
rare to see Canadians anywhere there.

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Yeah,

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I know very few people
actually chart on Apple.

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Amanda though does,

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Yes.

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And I've and it's nice to be able to have
said that you charted on Apple podcasts.

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Yes.

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And there are different charts
depending on the country too.

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So Yeah, it's like looking at the Canadian
charts and seeing what shows make it to

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those charts that are made in Canada.

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It's tough.

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It's tough and it's

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hard even.

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Filtering it out to see, I know.

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Yeah.

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Whether it was actually made in Canada.

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Yes.

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It's really challenging
to be able to do that.

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You wanna hear my most important
metric that I think is the

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most hilarious thing ever.

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Okay.

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Shoot.

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So I don't usually chart on
Apple, but I do chart on good

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pos, which is another player.

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Great.

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And I love good thoughts.

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Yeah.

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They're great Used and they
make discoverability easy, but,

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they have, they've introduced so
many categories and one of the

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categories is the office, ah, fun.

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It's me and Ricky.

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J Ricky jva.

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Yeah.

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At first.

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Oh my God, really?

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It's the best metric ever because
it absolutely means nothing.

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Take it and it's hilariously funny.

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Yeah.

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That's amazing.

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Oh my gosh, that's really funny.

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And good pause is great too to you
talk about finding a sense of belonging

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in this space and one feature, if
folks haven't used it before, is it

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has like a home feed of what all of
your connections are listening to.

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Yes.

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So you get to see and learn.

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And it's great for podcast
discoverability, which is also

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tough in the industry these days.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And you can actually make a list of
like your favorite podcast and you

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can share that out really easily
and you can review right in it.

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And so I think the functionality
of it, even though I do listen

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to Apple Podcasts a lot, yeah.

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Is really important.

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And that's honestly, if you were
gonna review me, if you reviewed me

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on Good Pods, that would be amazing.

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All right.

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There you go.

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Listeners, you have your
to-do, go over to Good pos.

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Nice.

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You got into audio really early.

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Yes.

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I've always loved audio.

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I was listening to the
radio a lot as a kid.

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I would be, I talk about this in my TEDx
talk where I would be like listening to

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the radio and instead of making mixed
tapes with songs that I liked from

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the radio, I'd be calling into radio
stations and recording myself when

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I, when my little segment aired and
then making a mix tape of me talking.

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So it was essentially a podcast.

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But it was early days and as
the medium continued to evolve,

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I just loved experimenting.

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And I went and studied journalism, as
you mentioned, at Toronto Metropolitan

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University and focused on radio with
most of my classes 'cause I loved audio.

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But ever since I got into the
radio industry, I was making

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podcasts on the side since day one.

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So I made my first podcast
in 2010, a long time ago now.

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And now happily working
and podcasting full time.

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That's really cool.

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I have an opposite reaction.

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My father used to love
to listen to talk radio.

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Cfr b was the thing I got to listen
to like maybe one or two songs.

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And then we had to switch
back to talk radio.

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So I hate talk radio.

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Okay.

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You're you were like, it
was forced down your throat.

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So now

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it was Right.

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But it was also, there was never
anything that was actually topical to

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something that I was interested in.

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It was really hard to find
age appropriate podcasting.

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And that's actually what's interesting
about the books that you've published

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is not only is it podcasting for adults,
you actually have a book about podcasting

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for kids because you notice that Disney.

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Is interested in audio.

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Yes, that's right.

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So I was doing research for
the second edition of my adult

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book, if you wanna call it that.

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So let's talk.

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Podcasting originally came out in 2018.

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The second edition came
out last year in 2024.

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And I was updating everything
and I including the age

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brackets and the listener stats
around certain age brackets.

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And that's when I stumbled upon this
research that Disney invested in with

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Edison research that showed there
was a huge uptick in listenership

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for kids under the age of 12.

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And this is when I was like, wait, what?

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And then they even did further
research and there was research to

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show that kids even age five to eight
were actively listening to podcasts.

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And that number was
growing year over year.

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And I had never really thought about that
age demo and what that might look like.

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When I saw that there was that
big of a audience there, I went

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what resources do they have?

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And I started searching There is,
there are no books for that age group.

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And so that's why I thought I have
to just write a an a kid's book now.

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So let's Talk.

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Podcasting for Kids was written
at the same time as I was

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updating my original book.

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And it launched this year in March,
and that is for age five to eight.

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And it introduces them to the medium and
then encourages them to tell their own

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story and interview their family members.

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Of course there's a lot of
caution to be had with kids

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uploading content on the internet.

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And so the book gently encourages
them to either perform it as a live

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podcast or to record it and just keep
it for themselves as a private podcast.

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So I think that's nice
also to to acknowledge,

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right?

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And it's fascinating how you can
build that storytelling skill.

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Young.

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That's amazing.

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Yes.

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And with the push to get kids away from
screens podcasting is a fabulous medium.

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That's going to be
something that is flexible.

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Still exposes them to
content that isn't visual.

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Yep.

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Doesn't have to be visual.

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Yep.

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I have a big thing about video podcasts.

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We're doing video for this,
but it's not, it doesn't have

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to be what I personally like

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to have

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as a podcast.

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That's fair.

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So fair.

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I think that's really cool for kids.

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Yes.

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Because there's a growing concern
around screen time and also we see

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that it helps park their imagination.

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So one of the activities I'll do when
I do my Podcasting for Kids Workshop

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is have a group of, I'll do this for
like grade ones, twos, threes have a

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group of kids listen to an audio story
and then we go around the room and

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say, the woman's voice in that podcast,
what do you think she looked like?

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And each one is describing this
character that they imagined in their

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mind, purple hair with a black t-shirt.

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And they're like going off on what
they described as their character

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and we get to hear how everybody
thought of something different.

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And at the end of that exercise I say
no one's right and no one's wrong.

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Everyone just got to create
a something in their mind.

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And that means a part of
them is in that story now.

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And that's the beauty
of audio storytelling.

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So getting that's great for brain health.

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So that's like a nice piece to it.

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And you talk about the
championing their voice.

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And you'll see even at that young
of an age students who don't wanna

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listen to their voice back and
say, I don't like the way I sound.

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Or they'll plug their ears when we
do an exercise where I'm recording

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them and I'm playing it back.

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But I do it on purpose and I make
everybody cheer for everyone and

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really start to embrace that.

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We gotta love our voices.

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Every voice is unique,
every voice is special.

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And what I also try to start
to explain is scientifically

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why we sound different when we.

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Hear ourselves back, right?

247
00:10:36,228 --> 00:10:37,908
So our ears are behind our mouth.

248
00:10:37,908 --> 00:10:41,448
And I just use that example for the
kids to say, and look, it's behind you.

249
00:10:41,448 --> 00:10:43,728
And when you're talking to Mike, the
mic's in front of you, and of course it's

250
00:10:43,728 --> 00:10:45,648
gonna sound different, and that's okay.

251
00:10:45,648 --> 00:10:46,488
That's science.

252
00:10:46,488 --> 00:10:50,268
And so hoping to instill these kind
of nuggets of information young so

253
00:10:50,268 --> 00:10:53,628
that they can grow to love their voice
and not be so hard on themselves.

254
00:10:53,768 --> 00:10:54,008
Yeah.

255
00:10:54,008 --> 00:10:57,698
No, and but it's also not just for
kids too, because just actually before

256
00:10:57,698 --> 00:11:00,998
I came over here, I happened to see
somebody had written that basically like

257
00:11:01,058 --> 00:11:03,908
women over 50, they wanna silence us.

258
00:11:03,973 --> 00:11:04,273
But we

259
00:11:04,273 --> 00:11:05,233
didn't get silence.

260
00:11:05,233 --> 00:11:06,313
We picked up a microphone.

261
00:11:06,463 --> 00:11:07,303
Heck yeah.

262
00:11:07,633 --> 00:11:07,753
Yes.

263
00:11:09,013 --> 00:11:09,373
I know.

264
00:11:09,373 --> 00:11:13,223
When the number of women podcasters
are increasing like over the years

265
00:11:13,223 --> 00:11:16,933
and it's tripled over, I just read
a stat that women listenership

266
00:11:17,143 --> 00:11:19,003
has tripled over the last decade.

267
00:11:19,003 --> 00:11:19,063
Yeah.

268
00:11:19,363 --> 00:11:23,168
So it actually used to be skewed with more
men listening to podcasts and, but now

269
00:11:23,168 --> 00:11:25,898
we've really seen an uptick with women
and that women like to listen to women.

270
00:11:25,898 --> 00:11:26,558
So there you go.

271
00:11:27,008 --> 00:11:27,158
It's

272
00:11:27,158 --> 00:11:27,428
great.

273
00:11:27,818 --> 00:11:28,388
Yeah.

274
00:11:28,388 --> 00:11:28,448
Yeah.

275
00:11:28,538 --> 00:11:32,693
Actually, it's fascinating that you say
that because I. Really try to actually

276
00:11:32,693 --> 00:11:34,988
balance the difference between my guests.

277
00:11:35,088 --> 00:11:37,248
And make sure that I've
got like a representation.

278
00:11:37,338 --> 00:11:37,578
Great.

279
00:11:37,628 --> 00:11:38,848
But when I listen to women.

280
00:11:39,273 --> 00:11:40,093
See, there you go.

281
00:11:40,273 --> 00:11:43,913
And I I actually had a debate with,
actually, he happens to be Canadian,

282
00:11:43,913 --> 00:11:45,443
a really long standing podcaster.

283
00:11:45,443 --> 00:11:46,493
You'll know their name I won't talk

284
00:11:46,493 --> 00:11:46,613
about.

285
00:11:46,733 --> 00:11:47,303
Okay.

286
00:11:47,363 --> 00:11:47,663
Yeah.

287
00:11:48,353 --> 00:11:51,083
And honestly, every time I engage
with him, I just get irritated.

288
00:11:51,383 --> 00:11:51,923
Oh my gosh.

289
00:11:52,673 --> 00:11:55,253
Fiery, we got some fiery ones in the mix.

290
00:11:55,673 --> 00:11:56,243
Yeah, exactly.

291
00:11:56,243 --> 00:12:00,863
But I think it's really important that
you have a voice and it's a way that

292
00:12:00,863 --> 00:12:05,373
people can maybe counter the loneliness
epidemic because a lot of loneliness

293
00:12:05,373 --> 00:12:07,353
is about not feeling seen and heard.

294
00:12:07,443 --> 00:12:07,803
Yeah.

295
00:12:07,863 --> 00:12:10,053
So podcasting is a way
that you can do that.

296
00:12:10,113 --> 00:12:11,313
Yeah, definitely.

297
00:12:11,313 --> 00:12:14,223
And I think sometimes there's been a
lot of research around loneliness and

298
00:12:14,223 --> 00:12:18,633
people who have people around them would
assume that, oh, you're not lonely.

299
00:12:18,633 --> 00:12:21,063
You have a partner,
you have a family, but.

300
00:12:21,453 --> 00:12:24,273
You can still feel lonely when
being surrounded with people.

301
00:12:24,273 --> 00:12:28,503
So if that is the case, how can
you continue to do outreach and

302
00:12:28,503 --> 00:12:32,353
build community in ways beyond
just your immediate household?

303
00:12:32,353 --> 00:12:36,503
And yeah, podcasting definitely allows
for that, that relationship with and

304
00:12:36,503 --> 00:12:39,623
the intimacy that people feel from
listening to podcast hosts, it's nice.

305
00:12:39,713 --> 00:12:41,953
And I think that's a really
important part of it.

306
00:12:41,953 --> 00:12:45,653
And honestly, that's why I podcast
is, my family doesn't necessarily

307
00:12:45,653 --> 00:12:49,373
wanna listen to all of my current
theories on what the future of work is.

308
00:12:49,523 --> 00:12:50,983
Or could be Right.

309
00:12:50,983 --> 00:12:55,773
So it gives me an outlet to really
talk about things that are out there

310
00:12:55,953 --> 00:13:00,053
that aren't necessarily things that I
have somebody else to talk about with.

311
00:13:00,203 --> 00:13:00,588
There you go.

312
00:13:00,778 --> 00:13:01,068
Yeah.

313
00:13:01,253 --> 00:13:03,053
And that's the best thing
about podcasting too.

314
00:13:03,053 --> 00:13:06,503
It's an excuse to get really smart
people who sometimes will even come up

315
00:13:06,503 --> 00:13:08,363
and actually meet with you in person.

316
00:13:08,723 --> 00:13:09,413
Why not?

317
00:13:09,463 --> 00:13:11,163
And they'll talk to you and tell you.

318
00:13:11,583 --> 00:13:13,023
Amazing advice, just for free.

319
00:13:13,258 --> 00:13:14,578
Yeah, no, it's great.

320
00:13:14,578 --> 00:13:15,018
It's really fun.

321
00:13:15,023 --> 00:13:16,413
Yeah, exactly.

322
00:13:16,413 --> 00:13:19,273
And do you find, what, I'm
just, now I'm reversing it.

323
00:13:19,273 --> 00:13:23,083
'cause I'm curious, like what
did you, what was what were you

324
00:13:23,083 --> 00:13:27,253
expecting when you started a podcast
and did creating a podcast meet

325
00:13:27,253 --> 00:13:28,843
those expectations or surpass them?

326
00:13:28,843 --> 00:13:30,403
Or what was it like pre podcast?

327
00:13:30,403 --> 00:13:31,093
Amazing question.

328
00:13:31,093 --> 00:13:32,473
It's almost like I fed that to you.

329
00:13:32,473 --> 00:13:33,193
Like seriously.

330
00:13:33,193 --> 00:13:33,883
No, but I wanna know.

331
00:13:35,173 --> 00:13:37,813
So my story was I actually got laid off.

332
00:13:37,903 --> 00:13:38,053
Okay.

333
00:13:38,053 --> 00:13:41,563
But I had been in call centers
for the majority of my career,

334
00:13:41,563 --> 00:13:42,943
and then I moved into sales.

335
00:13:43,213 --> 00:13:46,423
So I was very used to talking
to people like all day long.

336
00:13:46,513 --> 00:13:46,753
Okay.

337
00:13:46,963 --> 00:13:52,463
And when I got laid off and was home
with my kids and didn't necessarily

338
00:13:52,463 --> 00:13:57,443
have to talk to everybody about things
all day long, I eventually found that I

339
00:13:57,443 --> 00:13:59,123
was, I felt like I was being silenced.

340
00:13:59,203 --> 00:14:00,433
And I needed an outlet.

341
00:14:00,463 --> 00:14:00,793
Yeah.

342
00:14:01,093 --> 00:14:03,973
But I also needed an outlet that
would allow me to talk about

343
00:14:03,973 --> 00:14:05,378
things that I thought were.

344
00:14:06,103 --> 00:14:08,623
Important because I'm also the
type of person who tends to be

345
00:14:08,623 --> 00:14:12,963
on the outskirts of the future.

346
00:14:13,053 --> 00:14:13,293
Yeah.

347
00:14:13,393 --> 00:14:16,903
Like I, I notice patterns, I
notice things that happen Yep.

348
00:14:16,903 --> 00:14:18,133
Before they really happens.

349
00:14:18,183 --> 00:14:20,763
If you started podcasting in
2010, you can relate to that.

350
00:14:20,763 --> 00:14:21,063
Yes.

351
00:14:21,183 --> 00:14:21,393
Yeah.

352
00:14:22,413 --> 00:14:23,043
Early, right?

353
00:14:23,063 --> 00:14:24,513
Like I tend to be that type of person too.

354
00:14:24,518 --> 00:14:27,638
Frequently I don't necessarily
always have people who are like that.

355
00:14:28,008 --> 00:14:35,108
So I started because I wanted to advance
a personal brand for, work because I

356
00:14:35,108 --> 00:14:36,623
decided to start a consulting company.

357
00:14:36,653 --> 00:14:36,893
Yeah.

358
00:14:37,113 --> 00:14:42,243
So strategic in terms of how do I
support myself, but also it was I

359
00:14:42,243 --> 00:14:43,593
felt like I wasn't being listened to.

360
00:14:43,593 --> 00:14:43,683
Yeah.

361
00:14:43,683 --> 00:14:47,763
And so when I was talking to people,
I also noticed myself interrupting.

362
00:14:47,813 --> 00:14:50,513
So I was trying to actually train
myself to be a better listener.

363
00:14:50,543 --> 00:14:50,603
Wow.

364
00:14:51,888 --> 00:14:54,228
And that was in the other
part of it as well too.

365
00:14:54,588 --> 00:14:56,418
And do you feel like you
accomplished all that?

366
00:14:56,628 --> 00:14:57,348
I feel like I have.

367
00:14:57,648 --> 00:14:58,488
Wow, that's

368
00:14:58,503 --> 00:14:58,943
so good.

369
00:14:59,363 --> 00:14:59,583
Yep.

370
00:14:59,723 --> 00:15:04,518
It was funny, I took a story tour in
telling course once probably 2019.

371
00:15:04,518 --> 00:15:05,268
2020. Yep.

372
00:15:05,669 --> 00:15:07,749
Somebody in she's actually
through Eth Godin.

373
00:15:07,749 --> 00:15:08,709
She actually Oh, great.

374
00:15:08,739 --> 00:15:09,929
She's in Australia.

375
00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:10,289
Cool.

376
00:15:10,348 --> 00:15:11,728
She wrote a piece today.

377
00:15:12,029 --> 00:15:12,269
Wow.

378
00:15:12,269 --> 00:15:12,689
What are the odds?

379
00:15:13,019 --> 00:15:17,248
I know about noticing that she was not
as good a listener as she wanted to be.

380
00:15:17,248 --> 00:15:18,927
And how she was training
herself to be that way.

381
00:15:18,927 --> 00:15:20,818
And I was just like, wow.

382
00:15:20,907 --> 00:15:23,937
That's, I think, something
that could really resonate.

383
00:15:23,937 --> 00:15:28,437
I, and I don't think that people think
about podcasting as a way to help them

384
00:15:28,437 --> 00:15:31,738
develop speaking skills, listening skills.

385
00:15:31,738 --> 00:15:32,547
Communication skills overall.

386
00:15:32,607 --> 00:15:32,877
Yeah.

387
00:15:33,266 --> 00:15:33,537
Yep.

388
00:15:33,777 --> 00:15:34,317
For sure.

389
00:15:34,497 --> 00:15:39,327
I think listening is so important in
all aspects of our life, and podcasting

390
00:15:39,327 --> 00:15:41,367
really forces you to get good at it.

391
00:15:41,397 --> 00:15:42,507
And, but that.

392
00:15:42,552 --> 00:15:46,932
Yeah, but that skill is gonna have ripple
effects far beyond the podcast studio.

393
00:15:46,932 --> 00:15:51,072
So I think it's really commendable
that that someone might start

394
00:15:51,072 --> 00:15:53,592
a podcast for that reason, the
opposite of what you might think

395
00:15:53,642 --> 00:15:54,811
to sharpen those listening skills.

396
00:15:54,842 --> 00:15:58,172
'cause you really do have to be
present and listening in order to

397
00:15:58,291 --> 00:16:01,622
do a great interview and to have a
great conversation and to let it flow.

398
00:16:01,622 --> 00:16:06,692
And so I think that as a journalist,
as a trained journalist, that was

399
00:16:06,692 --> 00:16:10,712
my crash course in, oh, I gotta
be listening 'cause I'm looking

400
00:16:10,712 --> 00:16:12,122
for that golden nugget of a clip.

401
00:16:12,122 --> 00:16:15,412
I have to think of the great follow-up
questions, and so that training on

402
00:16:15,412 --> 00:16:19,082
the act of listening part, I got
young, which was and I loved it.

403
00:16:19,412 --> 00:16:24,162
And I think it's helped come into,
as a foundational skill for, as I

404
00:16:24,162 --> 00:16:25,512
moved into the podcasting space too.

405
00:16:25,512 --> 00:16:28,122
And I think there's
whole books on listening.

406
00:16:28,122 --> 00:16:31,541
So if anybody is wanting to,
and it takes a little bit of.

407
00:16:32,202 --> 00:16:34,812
Self-awareness to recognize, hey,
maybe I'm not a great listener.

408
00:16:35,142 --> 00:16:35,232
Yeah.

409
00:16:35,232 --> 00:16:38,292
No it's great to continue to be
aware of that side of things.

410
00:16:38,382 --> 00:16:38,562
Yeah.

411
00:16:38,562 --> 00:16:42,162
And there's different types of listening
are you listening so that you can talk?

412
00:16:42,262 --> 00:16:43,942
Or are you listening to learn?

413
00:16:44,332 --> 00:16:46,791
What does the person need
from you in that moment?

414
00:16:46,892 --> 00:16:49,712
And just allowing that space sometimes.

415
00:16:49,772 --> 00:16:50,072
Yeah.

416
00:16:50,252 --> 00:16:52,532
Space never happens in podcasts.

417
00:16:52,567 --> 00:16:52,847
I notice.

418
00:16:53,677 --> 00:16:54,067
It depends.

419
00:16:54,067 --> 00:16:55,567
Especially like certain ones where Yeah.

420
00:16:55,567 --> 00:16:56,917
They're like talking over each other.

421
00:16:56,917 --> 00:17:01,177
But if you can, you let the
there be silence a little bit.

422
00:17:01,177 --> 00:17:02,737
Sometimes it can be powerful too.

423
00:17:03,097 --> 00:17:04,357
You know who uses space?

424
00:17:04,807 --> 00:17:05,047
Who?

425
00:17:05,167 --> 00:17:05,437
Malcolm

426
00:17:05,437 --> 00:17:05,827
Gladwell.

427
00:17:05,917 --> 00:17:06,217
Yeah.

428
00:17:06,217 --> 00:17:06,667
There we go.

429
00:17:06,667 --> 00:17:07,117
Nice.

430
00:17:07,147 --> 00:17:07,507
Yeah.

431
00:17:07,747 --> 00:17:07,957
Yeah.

432
00:17:08,437 --> 00:17:09,367
Does a good job of it.

433
00:17:09,697 --> 00:17:12,697
I love Krista Tippet in on being podcast.

434
00:17:12,697 --> 00:17:15,427
She also does a great,
oh yeah, check it out.

435
00:17:15,427 --> 00:17:19,357
She does a, she's a great interviewer
and she's really great with, sometimes

436
00:17:19,357 --> 00:17:22,337
she'll even I use this clip, so this is
why I know it off the top of my head.

437
00:17:22,367 --> 00:17:24,827
'cause I use it in a lot of my
workshops where she's interviewing

438
00:17:25,067 --> 00:17:27,047
Brene Brown and actually she just reads.

439
00:17:27,857 --> 00:17:31,007
A quote from Brene's
book back to Brene Brown.

440
00:17:31,067 --> 00:17:34,307
And then just lets, and
then just lets her go.

441
00:17:34,307 --> 00:17:38,276
But she just, and then she just sits and
Brene, is obviously media trained and will

442
00:17:38,276 --> 00:17:42,597
speak, but letting her be a minute and
Brene will really think before she speaks.

443
00:17:42,597 --> 00:17:44,306
So actually that's common.

444
00:17:44,306 --> 00:17:44,667
Yeah.

445
00:17:44,726 --> 00:17:45,117
For her.

446
00:17:45,117 --> 00:17:45,296
Did you

447
00:17:45,296 --> 00:17:47,546
listen to the podcast that they, she did.

448
00:17:47,546 --> 00:17:49,377
Was Adam Grant for her latest book?

449
00:17:49,407 --> 00:17:49,947
I did.

450
00:17:50,006 --> 00:17:51,266
And she teases him?

451
00:17:51,357 --> 00:17:51,897
Yes.

452
00:17:53,006 --> 00:17:54,147
'
cause he got feedback.

453
00:17:54,492 --> 00:17:58,242
That he needs to be more like Brene Brown
in terms of actually thinking through

454
00:17:58,242 --> 00:18:00,552
the questions and allowing that space.

455
00:18:00,642 --> 00:18:00,942
Yeah.

456
00:18:01,002 --> 00:18:01,902
So it's funny you bring that

457
00:18:01,902 --> 00:18:01,962
up.

458
00:18:01,962 --> 00:18:03,252
I know, and I love that
you listen to that.

459
00:18:03,282 --> 00:18:04,482
'cause I love them too.

460
00:18:04,752 --> 00:18:08,972
And so for those of you who don't know,
there's Brene Brown has a Dare to Lead

461
00:18:08,972 --> 00:18:14,012
podcast and she did a separate subseries
within this to promote her upcoming books.

462
00:18:14,282 --> 00:18:17,762
And Adam Grant takes the host
role instead of Brene and

463
00:18:17,762 --> 00:18:18,962
interviews her about the book.

464
00:18:18,962 --> 00:18:20,042
So this is what we're referencing.

465
00:18:20,341 --> 00:18:23,132
And and there's actually many moments
in that miniseries where there's

466
00:18:23,132 --> 00:18:24,331
a lot of silence actually, though.

467
00:18:24,512 --> 00:18:24,662
There is.

468
00:18:24,692 --> 00:18:25,292
Yeah.

469
00:18:25,322 --> 00:18:27,542
Because, and she'll, she's such a
deep thinker and she'll be even,

470
00:18:27,542 --> 00:18:31,692
she'll even say, gimme a second,
I, I wanna formulate my response

471
00:18:31,692 --> 00:18:33,132
properly, but I gotta just process it.

472
00:18:33,132 --> 00:18:37,362
She'll, so she'll preface it, take
her moment to think and then talk

473
00:18:37,362 --> 00:18:38,912
and, I think it's very effective.

474
00:18:39,002 --> 00:18:40,737
So I wanna highlight the fact that Amanda.

475
00:18:41,417 --> 00:18:45,437
Just did something that's amazing that
I didn't think to do, which was give you

476
00:18:45,437 --> 00:18:50,657
that whole backstory because I'm assuming
that you had that backstory and, I'm

477
00:18:50,657 --> 00:18:53,956
just, I know I'm just a trained
broadcaster, I'm like, we go, we just

478
00:18:54,196 --> 00:18:55,426
gotta give it to them just in case.

479
00:18:55,426 --> 00:18:56,716
And it's funny, some people don't.

480
00:18:56,926 --> 00:19:00,166
I'll reference, there's certain thought
leaders like Brene Brown who in my

481
00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:03,526
world is very mainstream, and I think
for yours too, but even sometimes I'll

482
00:19:03,526 --> 00:19:06,516
come up at the end of presentations and
someone will say, but who is Brene Brown?

483
00:19:06,516 --> 00:19:07,356
And I was like, whoa.

484
00:19:07,566 --> 00:19:09,036
I guess I have to give
context on that one too.

485
00:19:09,036 --> 00:19:12,876
So if you don't know Brene Brown, she's
a researcher around belonging, happiness.

486
00:19:12,876 --> 00:19:15,516
And she has a PhD. She lives in Texas.

487
00:19:15,516 --> 00:19:20,186
But as very famous Ted talk
about belonging and vulnerability

488
00:19:20,186 --> 00:19:20,906
that you could check out.

489
00:19:20,906 --> 00:19:23,846
But anyway, sometimes you just never
know who, what context is needing.

490
00:19:23,856 --> 00:19:24,276
We need it.

491
00:19:24,276 --> 00:19:29,406
So of course I always try to jump into
to, to help keep podcasts inclusive.

492
00:19:29,616 --> 00:19:29,796
Yeah.

493
00:19:29,796 --> 00:19:30,426
No, it makes sense.

494
00:19:30,426 --> 00:19:33,786
And Adam Grant is a professor at Wharton
who talks about the future of work.

495
00:19:34,806 --> 00:19:34,896
Yes.

496
00:19:34,896 --> 00:19:36,076
But also, he's a psychologist.

497
00:19:36,076 --> 00:19:36,196
Yeah.

498
00:19:36,196 --> 00:19:39,331
So it's the how people
live at work basically.

499
00:19:39,421 --> 00:19:40,111
Exactly.

500
00:19:40,111 --> 00:19:44,281
And they're both PhD grads who really
love the research behind all of this.

501
00:19:44,281 --> 00:19:44,371
Yes.

502
00:19:44,371 --> 00:19:47,791
And I appreciate that it's always grounded
with real research, what they talk about.

503
00:19:48,451 --> 00:19:48,901
Yes.

504
00:19:49,111 --> 00:19:49,321
Yeah.

505
00:19:49,381 --> 00:19:52,261
It's, those are honestly
two of my favorite people

506
00:19:52,261 --> 00:19:52,561
to listen.

507
00:19:52,651 --> 00:19:52,771
Yeah.

508
00:19:53,491 --> 00:19:54,271
We're very similar.

509
00:19:54,271 --> 00:19:54,721
I'm the same.

510
00:19:54,751 --> 00:19:55,381
I'm a big fan.

511
00:19:55,756 --> 00:19:56,836
Yeah, exactly.

512
00:19:56,986 --> 00:19:59,956
So I wanted to actually switch
to the speaking aspect of it.

513
00:20:00,106 --> 00:20:00,346
Yeah.

514
00:20:00,346 --> 00:20:05,356
So not only do you do audio podcasting,
but you also do keynote speaking.

515
00:20:05,446 --> 00:20:05,716
Yep.

516
00:20:05,836 --> 00:20:07,186
And you have done a TED Talk?

517
00:20:07,191 --> 00:20:07,311
Yes.

518
00:20:07,316 --> 00:20:08,476
I tried to do a TED Talk.

519
00:20:08,476 --> 00:20:09,976
I applied for the global TED Talk.

520
00:20:09,976 --> 00:20:10,006
Oh.

521
00:20:11,176 --> 00:20:11,266
And

522
00:20:11,266 --> 00:20:11,386
got

523
00:20:11,386 --> 00:20:11,746
declined.

524
00:20:11,776 --> 00:20:13,756
It's, they must have got so many.

525
00:20:13,756 --> 00:20:15,676
Of course I saw those course
they were running ads for it.

526
00:20:15,681 --> 00:20:15,891
Yes.

527
00:20:16,006 --> 00:20:18,916
So it's good for you for applying
though, that's good First step.

528
00:20:19,126 --> 00:20:23,326
I, to be honest, I had applied to
many TED stages before I got one.

529
00:20:23,326 --> 00:20:25,366
So it's not easy.

530
00:20:25,366 --> 00:20:27,666
It's a tough thing to crack the nut on.

531
00:20:27,666 --> 00:20:30,966
But my TEDx talk was with
Toronto Metropolitan University,

532
00:20:30,966 --> 00:20:32,136
which was my alumnus.

533
00:20:32,136 --> 00:20:32,976
It was a great fit.

534
00:20:33,436 --> 00:20:36,126
But even that stage, like I
had applied to be on that stage

535
00:20:36,126 --> 00:20:37,746
multiple times before they chose me.

536
00:20:37,746 --> 00:20:40,056
So sometimes it just takes time.

537
00:20:40,056 --> 00:20:41,406
But I do love speaking.

538
00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:43,736
I feel obviously the audio
storytelling and being on a

539
00:20:43,736 --> 00:20:46,676
stage, it's all storytelling, but.

540
00:20:47,201 --> 00:20:50,411
It is different because like here,
there's no one, it's just us two in a

541
00:20:50,411 --> 00:20:56,921
room and some folks who come up on the
radio side don't necessarily always

542
00:20:57,101 --> 00:21:00,521
enjoy being on a stage with hundreds
or thousands of people looking at them.

543
00:21:00,911 --> 00:21:05,801
But I was brought up loving
public speaking actually.

544
00:21:05,801 --> 00:21:09,941
That's where I think I was like in grade
school going through the competitions.

545
00:21:09,941 --> 00:21:11,141
I went, I won the whole thing.

546
00:21:11,141 --> 00:21:14,041
Like I went up all the way to
the board level and really loved

547
00:21:14,041 --> 00:21:15,901
doing that portion of work.

548
00:21:15,901 --> 00:21:19,861
And in school I did the in morning
announcements in high school.

549
00:21:19,861 --> 00:21:24,211
I then, and then really what supercharged
me was I, my first ever full-time job

550
00:21:24,601 --> 00:21:29,221
actually was working on a cruise ship
and I worked as a entertainment host.

551
00:21:29,221 --> 00:21:29,461
I can see it.

552
00:21:29,461 --> 00:21:29,701
Yeah.

553
00:21:30,901 --> 00:21:34,801
So I did the Trivias and the
Bingos and I was on a microphone

554
00:21:34,981 --> 00:21:38,551
40 hours a week on a stage in front
of thousands of cruise guests.

555
00:21:38,551 --> 00:21:40,251
And oh yeah, like I loved it.

556
00:21:40,251 --> 00:21:42,321
I really thrived and it taught me how to.

557
00:21:43,101 --> 00:21:47,291
Keep an audience captivated and and
just have fun and roll with the punches.

558
00:21:47,291 --> 00:21:50,891
So it was it was a great training
ground for me to eventually

559
00:21:50,891 --> 00:21:51,851
do what I'm doing today.

560
00:21:52,631 --> 00:21:53,051
Very cool.

561
00:21:53,411 --> 00:21:56,921
So what's your thought on the fact
that TED talks are getting shorter?

562
00:21:57,001 --> 00:22:00,271
I know this is like the
drama in the TED talk space.

563
00:22:00,301 --> 00:22:03,091
'cause I think it used to actually
be 20 then it was 18 when I did it.

564
00:22:03,121 --> 00:22:06,361
18 minute limit and now
it's, is it 15 or 12 minute?

565
00:22:06,361 --> 00:22:07,351
15 minutes now?

566
00:22:07,681 --> 00:22:08,551
I think it's like

567
00:22:08,971 --> 00:22:10,591
12. 12 now.

568
00:22:10,621 --> 00:22:11,191
12, yeah.

569
00:22:11,191 --> 00:22:12,331
So something like that.

570
00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:14,431
But it significantly shorter
from where we started.

571
00:22:14,431 --> 00:22:21,691
Yeah, I think it's interesting because
when I had my 18 minute limit in my head,

572
00:22:21,721 --> 00:22:23,791
I felt like I had to fill the 18 minutes.

573
00:22:24,151 --> 00:22:25,951
And maybe that's what
they're trying to prevent.

574
00:22:25,951 --> 00:22:29,761
Like some of those TED talks could
have been shorter and people were

575
00:22:29,761 --> 00:22:31,921
failing the time 'cause they felt
they needed to fill the time.

576
00:22:31,921 --> 00:22:37,561
But I think no matter what, when you are
given constraint, it's always interesting

577
00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:38,941
and creative to see how people.

578
00:22:39,361 --> 00:22:41,521
Yeah, flex their creative
muscles to work around that.

579
00:22:41,701 --> 00:22:44,131
I think obviously you could still
tell a great story in that amount

580
00:22:44,131 --> 00:22:45,721
of time and really powerful ideas.

581
00:22:45,811 --> 00:22:48,811
And there are still some of the greatest
TED talks that are actually shorter.

582
00:22:48,811 --> 00:22:50,431
They just didn't use
their full stage time.

583
00:22:51,011 --> 00:22:52,631
I think that it could be a positive.

584
00:22:52,631 --> 00:22:58,551
I'm interested to see if how it translates
and if we find that there's a shift in how

585
00:22:58,551 --> 00:23:00,321
TED Talks are delivered because of this.

586
00:23:00,321 --> 00:23:03,231
But yeah, I guess it's just
gonna be a wait and see.

587
00:23:03,681 --> 00:23:07,971
I'm curious what gets lost, because
to me the obvious answer is context.

588
00:23:08,151 --> 00:23:08,421
Yeah,

589
00:23:10,821 --> 00:23:11,451
it's true.

590
00:23:11,451 --> 00:23:15,591
You're obviously missing out on time and
you're gonna have to pick and choose how

591
00:23:15,591 --> 00:23:17,961
much or where to give that extra context.

592
00:23:17,961 --> 00:23:18,951
So it's hard to say.

593
00:23:18,951 --> 00:23:21,561
I think I, yeah, what would
my TED talk have been?

594
00:23:21,561 --> 00:23:23,841
If I only had 12 minutes, what
would I have had to cut out?

595
00:23:23,841 --> 00:23:25,071
I really love my TEDx talk.

596
00:23:25,501 --> 00:23:28,471
So if you wanna look it up, it's
called why Audio Storytelling

597
00:23:28,471 --> 00:23:31,441
is the Backbone of Humanity and.

598
00:23:31,996 --> 00:23:33,436
The, it had a lot of elements in it.

599
00:23:33,436 --> 00:23:35,176
I talk about my background in radio.

600
00:23:35,176 --> 00:23:36,976
I talk about the rise of podcasting.

601
00:23:36,976 --> 00:23:41,896
I do this demonstration of a really
powerful audio app that my company

602
00:23:41,896 --> 00:23:46,196
created and helps people capture legacies
on audio stories, oral histories.

603
00:23:46,526 --> 00:23:48,206
So yeah, I probably would've
had to cut that part.

604
00:23:48,206 --> 00:23:53,056
I would've had to cut that oral history
part, which feels like incomplete.

605
00:23:53,056 --> 00:23:53,866
It feels wrong.

606
00:23:53,866 --> 00:23:56,056
So I don't know, it's tough.

607
00:23:56,566 --> 00:23:58,746
I yeah, I guess there will
be pros and cons to it.

608
00:23:59,646 --> 00:24:00,276
That's interesting.

609
00:24:00,456 --> 00:24:04,716
So you also were invited to go
to the TED conference on ai?

610
00:24:04,896 --> 00:24:05,496
Yes.

611
00:24:05,646 --> 00:24:05,946
Yes.

612
00:24:05,946 --> 00:24:06,096
Tell

613
00:24:06,096 --> 00:24:06,511
us about that.

614
00:24:06,661 --> 00:24:06,951
Okay.

615
00:24:07,116 --> 00:24:08,436
It was really exciting.

616
00:24:08,486 --> 00:24:13,226
So the head of ted, which is, that's
why there's no x, the X means it's

617
00:24:13,226 --> 00:24:15,146
like an offshoot run somewhere locally.

618
00:24:15,236 --> 00:24:20,516
Ted, the actual TED runs
conferences and there'll be in big.

619
00:24:20,891 --> 00:24:22,721
Cities all over the world.

620
00:24:22,721 --> 00:24:25,061
They actually do them in
Vancouver, British Columbia,

621
00:24:25,061 --> 00:24:27,851
though they're discontinuing
those, I dunno if you heard that.

622
00:24:27,881 --> 00:24:28,931
Next year's, the last year.

623
00:24:28,991 --> 00:24:29,201
Yeah.

624
00:24:29,231 --> 00:24:30,671
So that was So actually once that they're

625
00:24:30,671 --> 00:24:31,361
doing global.

626
00:24:31,571 --> 00:24:31,931
Yep.

627
00:24:32,021 --> 00:24:35,266
And actually that's what made me go
I had never really paid attention

628
00:24:35,266 --> 00:24:38,186
to those conferences globally even.

629
00:24:38,186 --> 00:24:40,136
I never really looked up
where exactly are they.

630
00:24:40,136 --> 00:24:42,596
And that's why I saw that news and
I went, oh, that's a shame, but

631
00:24:42,596 --> 00:24:43,736
where else are they even doing them?

632
00:24:43,736 --> 00:24:48,756
And I just started digging in and I saw
the applications were open to attend the

633
00:24:48,756 --> 00:24:51,426
Ted AI in Vienna, which was a new one.

634
00:24:51,696 --> 00:24:51,816
Yeah.

635
00:24:51,906 --> 00:24:54,216
And this was only their
second year running it.

636
00:24:54,756 --> 00:25:00,676
And I just thought, oh, it's a very
intentional delegation because they

637
00:25:00,676 --> 00:25:02,566
do, and I didn't know this about.

638
00:25:03,136 --> 00:25:06,406
TED conferences before I went,
unlike the TEDx talks, the TED

639
00:25:06,406 --> 00:25:09,816
conferences have one day of talks
and it's 20 talks back to back.

640
00:25:09,816 --> 00:25:11,046
It's like a very long day.

641
00:25:11,736 --> 00:25:15,936
And then the other days of the conference
are, you're networking, you're doing

642
00:25:15,936 --> 00:25:17,976
excursions together that they pay for.

643
00:25:17,976 --> 00:25:18,996
That is like part of it.

644
00:25:19,236 --> 00:25:20,676
You're doing dinners together.

645
00:25:20,706 --> 00:25:23,076
It's you're brainstorming.

646
00:25:23,076 --> 00:25:25,506
You have solution circles where
they put a problem and then people

647
00:25:25,506 --> 00:25:27,606
are collaborating and trying to
figure out problems together.

648
00:25:27,606 --> 00:25:30,456
Like it's very interactive dynamic.

649
00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:32,526
And the audience is not just an audience.

650
00:25:32,526 --> 00:25:33,426
You're basically.

651
00:25:34,071 --> 00:25:37,941
Also speaking and sharing
ideas quite extensively.

652
00:25:37,971 --> 00:25:40,581
And so they wanna make sure they
have a stacked room and they wanna

653
00:25:40,581 --> 00:25:41,811
make sure they have a diverse room.

654
00:25:42,021 --> 00:25:44,811
And so that's why there's an
application to, you can't just go.

655
00:25:45,221 --> 00:25:48,521
So they, I don't exactly know
what the rubric was, but I

656
00:25:48,521 --> 00:25:49,901
was chosen and I'm very happy.

657
00:25:49,901 --> 00:25:51,431
I was one of 13 Canadians Yeah.

658
00:25:51,671 --> 00:25:52,571
To go.

659
00:25:52,721 --> 00:25:53,231
Yeah.

660
00:25:53,261 --> 00:25:54,491
Which was really exciting.

661
00:25:54,521 --> 00:25:57,521
And I made some, I met
some incredible people.

662
00:25:57,521 --> 00:26:00,821
I made some incredible French
which was really, I'm so glad

663
00:26:00,821 --> 00:26:02,141
I went and it all worked out.

664
00:26:02,141 --> 00:26:02,411
So yeah.

665
00:26:02,411 --> 00:26:04,361
So it, it's a three day event.

666
00:26:04,361 --> 00:26:10,751
Day one is an initial
meetups and then a gala.

667
00:26:10,811 --> 00:26:13,871
And it was, 'cause it was in Vienna
and they love balls, so they threw

668
00:26:13,871 --> 00:26:17,561
this huge ball and it was just a
nice way to kick off in this, in

669
00:26:17,561 --> 00:26:21,131
the Imperial Palace, which is a
historical building and quite stunning.

670
00:26:21,731 --> 00:26:24,791
And the whole conference actually took
place there in this imperial palace.

671
00:26:24,851 --> 00:26:28,871
And then day two was
all of those workshops.

672
00:26:28,871 --> 00:26:31,331
And so even one of the
excursions I went on was.

673
00:26:31,736 --> 00:26:34,226
To have AI create a perfume for you.

674
00:26:34,766 --> 00:26:37,856
And so they took us to
this special perfume shop.

675
00:26:38,006 --> 00:26:41,276
We filled out this survey about
ourselves, and then there was a

676
00:26:41,276 --> 00:26:44,886
billion, combinations of scents that
they could have put together for you.

677
00:26:44,886 --> 00:26:48,246
And based on how you filled out the
survey, this machine gave you a s.

678
00:26:48,921 --> 00:26:52,836
That it thought you would like and did
you And okay, so well, what it did, it

679
00:26:52,836 --> 00:26:57,606
gave me three to choose from and one
was definitely ama, like I loved it.

680
00:26:57,636 --> 00:26:59,206
And one was like okay.

681
00:26:59,206 --> 00:27:01,031
And the third was, I
definitely did not like it.

682
00:27:01,271 --> 00:27:02,476
So it was interesting.

683
00:27:02,476 --> 00:27:03,726
It was like a range.

684
00:27:04,126 --> 00:27:07,466
But then what they did is, and
they, and I like how they did this,

685
00:27:07,466 --> 00:27:10,586
they said, A, with AI you have,
there always has to be adjustments.

686
00:27:10,766 --> 00:27:12,806
Humans have to be working alongside it.

687
00:27:12,806 --> 00:27:16,856
And so yes, it's gonna give you your
three samples and then you can tweak

688
00:27:16,886 --> 00:27:20,216
if you feel you need, if one is close
to make it the absolute perfect scent.

689
00:27:20,516 --> 00:27:22,676
But I said, you know what, it really
nailed it with that first one.

690
00:27:22,676 --> 00:27:23,546
I loved it the most.

691
00:27:23,546 --> 00:27:24,326
I'm just gonna print.

692
00:27:24,326 --> 00:27:25,406
That's gonna be my bottle.

693
00:27:25,406 --> 00:27:28,526
And so actually everyone got a bottle
of the scents that was made for them.

694
00:27:28,526 --> 00:27:32,066
And I was like, what a cool experience
as part of a conference, it's cool.

695
00:27:32,576 --> 00:27:32,876
Yeah.

696
00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:35,576
And now I have my own
original Ted AI scent

697
00:27:36,091 --> 00:27:36,271
That's.

698
00:27:37,201 --> 00:27:39,451
I don't know anybody else
right to tell that story.

699
00:27:40,651 --> 00:27:41,401
Very neat.

700
00:27:41,401 --> 00:27:44,431
So if you ever have the opportunity
Yes, to go to one of these conferences,

701
00:27:44,731 --> 00:27:45,841
I would highly recommend it.

702
00:27:45,841 --> 00:27:46,681
I really enjoyed it.

703
00:27:47,311 --> 00:27:48,571
What did you learn from it?

704
00:27:48,631 --> 00:27:49,716
Yes, that was invaluable.

705
00:27:50,016 --> 00:27:50,971
Oh, okay.

706
00:27:51,901 --> 00:27:55,201
So that was all the fun stuff
as far as the talks themselves.

707
00:27:55,201 --> 00:28:00,661
Now, in that final day, I felt like it
was really interesting some of, and I

708
00:28:00,661 --> 00:28:03,961
think everyone took different things
away, which I also found fascinating

709
00:28:03,961 --> 00:28:07,051
when we talked after, based on where they
were at, what they were interested in.

710
00:28:07,141 --> 00:28:12,271
So for instance, one of the opening talks
was a someone who was very technical,

711
00:28:12,271 --> 00:28:16,981
and this was not for me 'cause I'm
just not that, and I'm like, somebody

712
00:28:16,981 --> 00:28:18,151
in this audience must love this.

713
00:28:18,151 --> 00:28:23,611
But essentially she was talking
about, she was equating the scientific

714
00:28:24,121 --> 00:28:28,921
periodic table of elements and
demonstrating how she has developed

715
00:28:29,671 --> 00:28:32,881
a machine learning periodic table of.

716
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:34,306
Code.

717
00:28:34,336 --> 00:28:34,996
I don't even know.

718
00:28:35,056 --> 00:28:37,216
It was a periodic table of AI basically.

719
00:28:37,486 --> 00:28:39,676
And I was like, fascinating.

720
00:28:39,976 --> 00:28:42,856
And that was as far as I could even
wrap my head around, and the rest

721
00:28:42,856 --> 00:28:44,416
of the talks were explaining it all.

722
00:28:44,926 --> 00:28:46,046
That's a blank like expression of my face.

723
00:28:46,071 --> 00:28:49,486
I'm like, whoa, great for you.

724
00:28:49,486 --> 00:28:50,566
I was happy for her.

725
00:28:50,566 --> 00:28:54,486
She was clearly a genius and
that exists out there so neat.

726
00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:57,446
We're innovating and just to you,
but I think it's interesting to

727
00:28:57,446 --> 00:29:01,046
even think about, we are redefining
the periodic tables in science

728
00:29:01,046 --> 00:29:04,526
and, in relation to AI and that's
being defined right now as we go.

729
00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:05,116
Very neat.

730
00:29:05,116 --> 00:29:07,936
She's doing her PhD in this, so great.

731
00:29:07,991 --> 00:29:09,251
So that's one end of the spectrum.

732
00:29:09,251 --> 00:29:13,931
And then, the complete opposite end of
the spectrum was a magician who was doing

733
00:29:13,931 --> 00:29:16,901
magic tricks as part of his TED talk.

734
00:29:17,636 --> 00:29:21,476
And saying how, like he was just
playing off of the idea of wonder

735
00:29:21,686 --> 00:29:25,766
and things that he could have made
somebody feel was a magic trick.

736
00:29:25,796 --> 00:29:27,566
Now people are like, that's just ai.

737
00:29:27,616 --> 00:29:31,096
They were skeptical of some of the magic
tricks he was doing online because of

738
00:29:31,096 --> 00:29:35,236
all the AI technology that can basically
make a video of you doing anything.

739
00:29:35,566 --> 00:29:35,626
Yeah.

740
00:29:35,656 --> 00:29:39,386
It was very fun and he was, making
tennis balls appear outta nowhere

741
00:29:39,386 --> 00:29:41,216
and really great magic tricks.

742
00:29:41,286 --> 00:29:44,856
And then connecting it to the idea
of wonder which was like a more of

743
00:29:44,856 --> 00:29:46,986
a creative and fun presentation.

744
00:29:47,256 --> 00:29:50,616
But, when we look at the talks that were
in the middle, that really challenged,

745
00:29:50,616 --> 00:29:54,186
the way I think about some things
as I engage was number one, there

746
00:29:54,186 --> 00:29:56,576
was one about living with a robot.

747
00:29:56,846 --> 00:30:02,726
And so how, what is it gonna be like when
there are physical robots in our world?

748
00:30:03,116 --> 00:30:08,246
And so she had a robot that she'd
been living with for a year and.

749
00:30:08,576 --> 00:30:11,036
The robot damaged some things
in her house and she was like

750
00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:12,446
does insurance cover this?

751
00:30:12,806 --> 00:30:14,066
And what, right?

752
00:30:14,066 --> 00:30:16,226
What's the line about
The robot damaged it?

753
00:30:16,226 --> 00:30:17,576
Who's liable for that?

754
00:30:17,606 --> 00:30:18,946
And raise.

755
00:30:18,946 --> 00:30:20,776
And she just raised a
lot of great questions.

756
00:30:20,776 --> 00:30:24,496
Then she's I wanted to take it
on public transit with me, so it

757
00:30:24,496 --> 00:30:25,756
has to go through the turnstile.

758
00:30:25,786 --> 00:30:30,356
So my buying in a pass, is it
a, or am I carrying it over?

759
00:30:30,356 --> 00:30:31,736
Like it's taking up a seat.

760
00:30:31,736 --> 00:30:34,906
So is it a, okay, so then it's
so where do you draw the line?

761
00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:41,086
Then even with talking about it
being transported and around the

762
00:30:41,086 --> 00:30:44,956
city, and it's like, what if she
folded it up and it was in a box?

763
00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:47,506
Does it count then or does it
only count when it's walking?

764
00:30:47,626 --> 00:30:48,856
He used it as a passenger in the HOV lane.

765
00:30:48,956 --> 00:30:49,346
There you go.

766
00:30:50,366 --> 00:30:52,286
But we gotta make Phil's decisions legit.

767
00:30:52,286 --> 00:30:54,506
Someone's gonna say
that's like my assistant.

768
00:30:54,506 --> 00:30:56,216
And so it's.

769
00:30:56,621 --> 00:30:57,071
It just, Hey,

770
00:30:57,071 --> 00:30:57,881
It beats a blow up doll,

771
00:30:57,911 --> 00:30:58,181
right?

772
00:31:00,251 --> 00:31:00,731
Yeah.

773
00:31:00,731 --> 00:31:02,051
More use cases for sure.

774
00:31:02,321 --> 00:31:05,891
I, so I just thought, this is really
interesting questions that I never

775
00:31:05,891 --> 00:31:08,561
really thought about and actually we have
to figure out answers to pretty soon.

776
00:31:09,091 --> 00:31:13,621
So there's, there was that talk and the
robot came out on the stage at one point.

777
00:31:13,621 --> 00:31:14,371
It was really neat.

778
00:31:14,491 --> 00:31:14,791
Oh, that's good.

779
00:31:15,031 --> 00:31:15,721
Yeah.

780
00:31:15,726 --> 00:31:17,426
So did she have to buy a plane ticket,

781
00:31:17,791 --> 00:31:18,361
I wonder?

782
00:31:18,361 --> 00:31:20,731
I don't know, but she, why
was it I didn't ask her.

783
00:31:20,731 --> 00:31:23,401
She show, she did show how she
folds them up into a box though.

784
00:31:23,401 --> 00:31:26,581
But it is a very big heavy box, so
she's I still get asked questions

785
00:31:26,581 --> 00:31:29,361
anyway quite interesting the
world that'll be living in soon.

786
00:31:29,366 --> 00:31:29,776
That is fun.

787
00:31:30,081 --> 00:31:34,121
The only robot I've lived with is eye
robot, which is like the automatic vacuum.

788
00:31:34,126 --> 00:31:34,276
Yeah.

789
00:31:34,396 --> 00:31:38,081
Which I honestly hate because I
swear it stalks me and I trip on it.

790
00:31:38,141 --> 00:31:38,201
Oh

791
00:31:38,201 --> 00:31:38,621
my God.

792
00:31:38,621 --> 00:31:39,011
See

793
00:31:39,101 --> 00:31:39,911
it terrifies my dog.

794
00:31:41,411 --> 00:31:41,741
I know.

795
00:31:41,741 --> 00:31:43,541
I've never, I never got one of those yet.

796
00:31:43,541 --> 00:31:44,111
I'm like, it's okay.

797
00:31:44,111 --> 00:31:45,701
I'm still a gate to manually vacuum.

798
00:31:46,691 --> 00:31:47,741
I wanted to live it.

799
00:31:47,741 --> 00:31:49,511
I really did because I
really hate vacuuming.

800
00:31:49,511 --> 00:31:49,571
Yeah.

801
00:31:49,961 --> 00:31:51,521
I really wanted to love it, and

802
00:31:51,521 --> 00:31:52,091
I do not.

803
00:31:52,301 --> 00:31:52,511
Yeah.

804
00:31:52,811 --> 00:31:52,991
Fair.

805
00:31:55,401 --> 00:31:56,121
So that's really cool.

806
00:31:56,121 --> 00:31:56,871
Thank you for sharing that.

807
00:31:56,871 --> 00:31:57,381
There you go.

808
00:31:57,481 --> 00:31:59,581
And today you're actually
doing a workshop.

809
00:31:59,641 --> 00:31:59,851
Yes.

810
00:31:59,901 --> 00:32:00,681
It's seven o'clock.

811
00:32:00,681 --> 00:32:01,551
We're recording.

812
00:32:01,551 --> 00:32:02,241
What time is it now?

813
00:32:02,301 --> 00:32:05,031
We have to actually make sure that
we're getting 'em in edit here on time.

814
00:32:05,241 --> 00:32:05,871
It's five 30.

815
00:32:05,931 --> 00:32:06,171
Yeah.

816
00:32:06,621 --> 00:32:06,891
Good on

817
00:32:06,891 --> 00:32:07,311
time.

818
00:32:07,311 --> 00:32:07,701
Yeah.

819
00:32:07,891 --> 00:32:11,101
So how do your workshops
fit into everything?

820
00:32:11,101 --> 00:32:13,771
Is it really just about taking
the ideas, the thought leadership?

821
00:32:14,221 --> 00:32:15,781
You seem to have a new
podcast, by the way.

822
00:32:15,861 --> 00:32:19,881
How does that all fit into what you're
planning for your upcoming future?

823
00:32:20,071 --> 00:32:26,051
The workshops, I love giving workshops and
I've been giving them definitely with the

824
00:32:26,051 --> 00:32:30,281
launch of the book the first time in 2018,
I got a lot of requests for workshops.

825
00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:32,651
So I've been giving them
since then very actively.

826
00:32:33,071 --> 00:32:38,141
And I love empowering people to
overcome any gaps in their knowledge

827
00:32:38,141 --> 00:32:41,371
or in their and when it comes to
their own self-confidence to get

828
00:32:41,371 --> 00:32:42,271
them to do what they wanna do.

829
00:32:42,271 --> 00:32:45,031
The whole thing with podcasting
is such an accessible medium.

830
00:32:45,031 --> 00:32:48,001
And so I just want to continue
to make it that and champion it.

831
00:32:48,001 --> 00:32:50,041
So I think I'll always be
doing some sort of workshops in

832
00:32:50,041 --> 00:32:51,721
some capacity no matter what.

833
00:32:51,811 --> 00:32:56,801
But the core of them are my, now my
Workshop for kids, which has come out

834
00:32:56,801 --> 00:32:58,811
with the, in attachment to the new book.

835
00:32:58,811 --> 00:33:00,071
Let's Talk Podcasting for Kids.

836
00:33:00,461 --> 00:33:02,921
And then the areas that people
tend to wanna learn about the

837
00:33:02,921 --> 00:33:05,051
most are the art of interviewing.

838
00:33:06,791 --> 00:33:09,401
Podcast 1 0 1, which is like
my, just baseline and we

839
00:33:09,401 --> 00:33:10,811
introduce people to the medium.

840
00:33:10,811 --> 00:33:13,691
And even if podcasts, I like play a
bunch of clips and talk behind the

841
00:33:13,691 --> 00:33:14,861
scenes about the making of them.

842
00:33:14,861 --> 00:33:18,051
So I think it's a really good,
like anybody can attend that one.

843
00:33:19,011 --> 00:33:21,951
I do a nuts and bolts of production
where we get into the nitty

844
00:33:21,951 --> 00:33:23,556
gritty of the technology and the.

845
00:33:24,131 --> 00:33:27,311
Producer hat that you need to have
on when you're making a podcast.

846
00:33:27,891 --> 00:33:32,001
And then I do this one, which I'm
gonna be doing later tonight, which is

847
00:33:32,001 --> 00:33:34,101
called Podcasting for Business Growth.

848
00:33:34,431 --> 00:33:38,271
And so this is where we really
take a business lens on podcasts

849
00:33:38,271 --> 00:33:41,661
and talk about how businesses can
use them, some best practices,

850
00:33:41,901 --> 00:33:43,431
and we get into some case studies.

851
00:33:43,851 --> 00:33:47,181
And so this is one that I typically
do with in entrepreneur groups

852
00:33:47,181 --> 00:33:50,361
or within organizations who are
contemplating starting a podcast.

853
00:33:50,631 --> 00:33:54,241
So it could set them up for success
and help them identify what their

854
00:33:54,241 --> 00:33:55,921
strategy and what their goals should be.

855
00:33:55,921 --> 00:33:59,701
Because especially for those kinds
of podcasts, hitting number one on

856
00:33:59,701 --> 00:34:01,981
Apple might not actually accomplish
your business goals, right?

857
00:34:01,981 --> 00:34:05,551
So it's thinking strategically
about why are you making this show.

858
00:34:05,581 --> 00:34:07,171
Those are the ones that I typically do.

859
00:34:07,561 --> 00:34:08,521
And do they

860
00:34:08,701 --> 00:34:11,011
tend to be in person or do you do virtual?

861
00:34:11,071 --> 00:34:11,491
Both.

862
00:34:11,491 --> 00:34:15,211
I think that I do a lot in person, but.

863
00:34:15,746 --> 00:34:18,146
I have done virtual as well,
especially in the pandemic, like I

864
00:34:18,146 --> 00:34:19,436
was still giving them all the time.

865
00:34:19,436 --> 00:34:22,196
And so I've adjusted some of them
to yeah, to be good for the screen.

866
00:34:22,226 --> 00:34:25,496
And I used to give editing workshops too,
but now honestly there, there's so many

867
00:34:25,496 --> 00:34:29,726
tools that do the edits basically for
you that I haven't really been running

868
00:34:29,726 --> 00:34:34,626
those ones as much and I would first
see that really becoming a non-issue

869
00:34:34,626 --> 00:34:37,866
for people to have to learn as you
even said, I have an open audition.

870
00:34:37,866 --> 00:34:39,966
I don't think you'll have to
really, you'll have enough

871
00:34:39,966 --> 00:34:41,646
tools to do it without Yeah.

872
00:34:41,706 --> 00:34:44,106
The professional high end ones.

873
00:34:44,106 --> 00:34:44,286
Yeah.

874
00:34:44,286 --> 00:34:44,436
I take a

875
00:34:44,436 --> 00:34:49,396
very low key approach to editing,
which is basically remove filler

876
00:34:49,516 --> 00:34:51,436
words, add music, and that's it.

877
00:34:51,441 --> 00:34:51,631
That's it.

878
00:34:51,736 --> 00:34:52,576
And that's fine.

879
00:34:52,576 --> 00:34:55,246
And so many, there's so many
successful podcasts that do that

880
00:34:55,246 --> 00:34:56,326
kind of treatment, so it makes sense.

881
00:34:56,616 --> 00:34:57,391
Yeah, exactly.

882
00:34:57,461 --> 00:34:57,751
Yeah.

883
00:34:57,756 --> 00:35:00,716
I did do one where the guest
was just really uncomfortable

884
00:35:00,716 --> 00:35:02,726
and we edited line by line and

885
00:35:03,021 --> 00:35:03,776
I learned that I don't

886
00:35:03,776 --> 00:35:04,376
wanna do that.

887
00:35:04,381 --> 00:35:04,541
No.

888
00:35:04,561 --> 00:35:06,446
And I started interviewing
professional speakers.

889
00:35:06,446 --> 00:35:06,746
There you go.

890
00:35:08,276 --> 00:35:08,666
Yeah.

891
00:35:08,726 --> 00:35:09,086
Yeah.

892
00:35:09,116 --> 00:35:10,286
That makes a difference for sure.

893
00:35:11,336 --> 00:35:14,186
And so this thought leadership
podcast that I happen to

894
00:35:14,186 --> 00:35:16,466
come across a trailer, yes.

895
00:35:16,466 --> 00:35:18,541
That looks like it was
just released this week.

896
00:35:18,731 --> 00:35:19,021
Yeah.

897
00:35:19,401 --> 00:35:22,436
So this is like a very soft
launch, which you're on it.

898
00:35:22,436 --> 00:35:22,676
Yes.

899
00:35:23,111 --> 00:35:24,491
We, let's go.

900
00:35:24,491 --> 00:35:29,011
It's so I've been making podcasts for
other people for a very long time,

901
00:35:29,011 --> 00:35:32,431
and I have hosted some, and usually in
collaboration with a client or a news

902
00:35:32,431 --> 00:35:34,621
outlet, but this one's purely my own.

903
00:35:34,651 --> 00:35:36,541
So it, it's very exciting.

904
00:35:36,541 --> 00:35:37,411
It's about time.

905
00:35:37,841 --> 00:35:41,321
So it is called Let's Talk Thought
Leadership, and I'm actually debuting

906
00:35:41,321 --> 00:35:43,631
the trailer tonight at the workshop.

907
00:35:43,811 --> 00:35:44,051
Oh, are you?

908
00:35:44,051 --> 00:35:44,411
Yes.

909
00:35:44,411 --> 00:35:47,321
Which is why I actually
pushed it live this week.

910
00:35:47,351 --> 00:35:47,381
Okay.

911
00:35:47,831 --> 00:35:49,241
Because it's, I'm glad I looked for it.

912
00:35:49,271 --> 00:35:49,781
There you go.

913
00:35:49,781 --> 00:35:50,471
You're on it.

914
00:35:51,551 --> 00:35:51,971
I know.

915
00:35:51,971 --> 00:35:52,871
I haven't made any post.

916
00:35:52,871 --> 00:35:54,761
I have not said this, so if
you're listening, you're getting

917
00:35:54,761 --> 00:35:56,501
the real first announcement.

918
00:35:56,531 --> 00:35:58,451
And if you ever doubt if I do my research,

919
00:35:58,481 --> 00:35:59,711
clearly she's on it.

920
00:36:01,121 --> 00:36:05,711
So I, this has been a brainchild of
mine for a long time and I had recorded

921
00:36:05,711 --> 00:36:09,111
this trailer and I'd been sitting
on it for a bit because I am in the

922
00:36:09,111 --> 00:36:13,591
midst of recording all my episodes
and I am gonna do a an approach where

923
00:36:13,591 --> 00:36:17,791
I've recorded everything and then
strategically released them next year.

924
00:36:18,551 --> 00:36:20,111
It's called Let's Talk Thought Leadership.

925
00:36:20,111 --> 00:36:23,081
And it's talking about thought leadership
because I feel like every time I

926
00:36:23,081 --> 00:36:25,961
had this conversation with people
are defining that word differently.

927
00:36:26,441 --> 00:36:29,591
But it's so buzzy and people will
tend to use it for other people, but

928
00:36:29,591 --> 00:36:31,721
then we might be using it differently.

929
00:36:31,721 --> 00:36:33,221
And so I just thought, I love, and then

930
00:36:33,221 --> 00:36:34,301
there's the sarcastic version.

931
00:36:34,421 --> 00:36:34,631
Yeah.

932
00:36:34,721 --> 00:36:38,111
And people like hate, it's, some people
have a real disdain for it, and I

933
00:36:38,111 --> 00:36:40,061
understand it's overused sometimes.

934
00:36:40,061 --> 00:36:40,871
And so we're just gonna dig in.

935
00:36:40,931 --> 00:36:42,731
We're putting it all on the
table, let's talk about it.

936
00:36:42,731 --> 00:36:46,121
'cause there's not a lot of
discourse about the term itself.

937
00:36:46,121 --> 00:36:48,851
It's just embedded itself in
weird little ways everywhere.

938
00:36:49,221 --> 00:36:56,641
And so I really want to dig in
on how people view this real.

939
00:36:57,416 --> 00:37:01,916
Trend of becoming a thought leader
in a certain field, and what does

940
00:37:01,916 --> 00:37:04,676
that even mean and what does that
look like and how do you pursue that?

941
00:37:04,676 --> 00:37:06,176
And it's like an ongoing process.

942
00:37:06,176 --> 00:37:11,096
And to me, like leadership is an ongoing
process and so is thought leadership.

943
00:37:11,096 --> 00:37:14,926
And so how do we yeah, how do we just
look at that, define it and talk to

944
00:37:14,926 --> 00:37:19,606
some folks that I have a lot of respect
for, and I'm sticking to Canadians

945
00:37:19,606 --> 00:37:21,286
for season one, which is great.

946
00:37:21,346 --> 00:37:23,386
If you're looking for a LinkedIn
top voice, there you go.

947
00:37:23,511 --> 00:37:24,911
I have thoughts on thought leadership.

948
00:37:25,311 --> 00:37:26,191
I just pitching myself now.

949
00:37:26,191 --> 00:37:26,471
Yeah.

950
00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:26,926
I love it.

951
00:37:27,766 --> 00:37:30,016
Because actually just LinkedIn Top Voice,

952
00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:30,706
it's huge.

953
00:37:31,066 --> 00:37:31,996
So how do you get that?

954
00:37:31,996 --> 00:37:32,071
It's huge.

955
00:37:32,076 --> 00:37:35,446
It's huge, but it's really
interesting how people react to it

956
00:37:35,536 --> 00:37:35,926
really.

957
00:37:35,926 --> 00:37:37,156
So tell me, talk about this.

958
00:37:37,156 --> 00:37:38,086
I'm interested in that.

959
00:37:39,016 --> 00:37:40,666
Very few Canadians actually have Yes.

960
00:37:40,666 --> 00:37:41,236
Top voice.

961
00:37:41,266 --> 00:37:41,596
Yes.

962
00:37:41,596 --> 00:37:45,286
And so my coach Carrie Twig
was a LinkedIn Top Voice.

963
00:37:45,336 --> 00:37:48,366
And so I for sure working with her and.

964
00:37:49,336 --> 00:37:52,276
I paid attention to how she behaved.

965
00:37:52,326 --> 00:37:52,736
On LinkedIn.

966
00:37:52,736 --> 00:37:52,756
On LinkedIn,

967
00:37:53,491 --> 00:37:53,671
yeah.

968
00:37:53,731 --> 00:37:58,151
And how she writes and how she conducts
herself and presents herself basically.

969
00:37:58,151 --> 00:38:02,321
And she is a story and telling
coach, and so she has that speaker

970
00:38:02,321 --> 00:38:04,631
background, even though she doesn't
present herself as a speaker.

971
00:38:04,731 --> 00:38:09,531
It's, she has a very different
way of being that's not exactly

972
00:38:09,531 --> 00:38:10,971
like everybody else on LinkedIn.

973
00:38:11,061 --> 00:38:14,361
Yeah, and so I've watched her since 2018.

974
00:38:15,201 --> 00:38:19,881
And it's funny because if
anything, it just taught me to be

975
00:38:19,911 --> 00:38:24,441
more myself and to trust my own
instincts and my own insights.

976
00:38:24,471 --> 00:38:28,221
And really between the podcasting,
between the writing on LinkedIn,

977
00:38:28,671 --> 00:38:30,891
it's how do you become more yourself?

978
00:38:31,501 --> 00:38:32,341
That's nice.

979
00:38:32,911 --> 00:38:38,881
And what I find stands out really for
LinkedIn is when you're actually not.

980
00:38:40,711 --> 00:38:42,181
Saying the same thing as everybody else.

981
00:38:42,211 --> 00:38:42,391
Yeah.

982
00:38:42,521 --> 00:38:45,641
You've got something that's unique,
that's special, that's valuable.

983
00:38:45,671 --> 00:38:47,591
There is no rubric.

984
00:38:47,621 --> 00:38:48,131
Yeah.

985
00:38:48,881 --> 00:38:49,721
You can't buy it.

986
00:38:49,781 --> 00:38:50,081
Yeah.

987
00:38:50,081 --> 00:38:51,161
You can't influence it.

988
00:38:51,671 --> 00:38:52,751
There are patterns.

989
00:38:53,471 --> 00:38:53,831
Yeah.

990
00:38:54,171 --> 00:38:55,251
LinkedIn trainers.

991
00:38:55,311 --> 00:38:55,641
Yep.

992
00:38:56,031 --> 00:38:58,461
Almost never get them,
although I do know too.

993
00:38:58,881 --> 00:38:59,361
Interesting.

994
00:38:59,631 --> 00:39:03,891
So it's very interesting the FOMO
that generates from the people

995
00:39:04,221 --> 00:39:07,701
who tend to work in areas that
don't receive the LinkedIn voice.

996
00:39:08,151 --> 00:39:11,341
So I'm part of a LinkedIn
group John Experience group.

997
00:39:11,881 --> 00:39:13,111
He's actually in Wales.

998
00:39:13,351 --> 00:39:13,561
Oh, cool.

999
00:39:13,561 --> 00:39:14,101
In the uk.

1000
00:39:14,581 --> 00:39:17,401
And he was teasing me today about
being a, he's I need that blue badge.

1001
00:39:17,401 --> 00:39:18,301
And I'm like, what for?

1002
00:39:18,541 --> 00:39:22,831
He said, just because, and I'm
like, but you haven't told me.

1003
00:39:22,891 --> 00:39:23,131
Yeah.

1004
00:39:23,131 --> 00:39:25,411
Other than the fact that you can't
get it, what it's gonna do for you.

1005
00:39:25,441 --> 00:39:25,621
Yeah.

1006
00:39:26,221 --> 00:39:26,371
So

1007
00:39:26,371 --> 00:39:27,601
people don't actually understand.

1008
00:39:28,936 --> 00:39:33,946
How to use it, how it benefits
you, and honestly I've actually

1009
00:39:33,946 --> 00:39:38,266
experienced a lot of backlash
really from people who are jealous.

1010
00:39:38,296 --> 00:39:39,556
That's so about it.

1011
00:39:39,556 --> 00:39:40,036
Sad.

1012
00:39:40,036 --> 00:39:40,701
I'm sorry to hear that.

1013
00:39:40,701 --> 00:39:41,021
But again

1014
00:39:41,076 --> 00:39:46,406
it's the way that LinkedIn presents it
and it's the fact that it's not clear

1015
00:39:47,096 --> 00:39:48,746
in terms of how you've achieved it.

1016
00:39:48,981 --> 00:39:51,056
Like the first question you
asked me is, how did I get that?

1017
00:39:51,276 --> 00:39:52,296
Not in the, what you did.

1018
00:39:52,296 --> 00:39:53,586
'cause I can tell the buyer content.

1019
00:39:53,586 --> 00:39:54,156
It makes sense.

1020
00:39:54,156 --> 00:39:57,606
To me, but I was more
like, I was always curious.

1021
00:39:57,906 --> 00:39:59,766
Is it just a, do they
just reach out to you?

1022
00:39:59,836 --> 00:40:01,036
What was the actual I got

1023
00:40:01,036 --> 00:40:01,426
an email.

1024
00:40:01,576 --> 00:40:02,206
Yeah, the email.

1025
00:40:02,206 --> 00:40:02,506
You, okay.

1026
00:40:02,506 --> 00:40:06,076
That's what the literal communication
method of how, that's what, so they

1027
00:40:06,076 --> 00:40:07,456
email you being like, you've been chosen.

1028
00:40:07,786 --> 00:40:08,116
Yeah.

1029
00:40:08,326 --> 00:40:09,046
That's amazing.

1030
00:40:09,046 --> 00:40:09,286
Me.

1031
00:40:10,276 --> 00:40:11,691
And then I checked my
profile and I had the

1032
00:40:11,691 --> 00:40:12,436
back and it's on.

1033
00:40:12,466 --> 00:40:12,736
Okay.

1034
00:40:12,736 --> 00:40:12,946
And it's

1035
00:40:12,946 --> 00:40:13,756
there now.

1036
00:40:13,756 --> 00:40:14,596
You can lose it now.

1037
00:40:14,806 --> 00:40:15,496
Oh.

1038
00:40:15,496 --> 00:40:15,691
So they changed it.

1039
00:40:15,696 --> 00:40:16,126
Wow.

1040
00:40:16,126 --> 00:40:16,456
So I actually

1041
00:40:16,456 --> 00:40:20,086
do know somebody who lost it because she
actually works in internal communications.

1042
00:40:20,086 --> 00:40:22,456
And she was always really active
and then she changed jobs.

1043
00:40:22,456 --> 00:40:25,336
And then with that new job,
she stopped post it as my

1044
00:40:25,336 --> 00:40:25,486
job

1045
00:40:25,606 --> 00:40:27,946
and stop commenting and all of that stuff.

1046
00:40:27,946 --> 00:40:30,681
And I, when I checked to her profile the
other day, she doesn't have it anymore.

1047
00:40:30,946 --> 00:40:31,486
Wow.

1048
00:40:31,486 --> 00:40:31,666
And

1049
00:40:31,666 --> 00:40:36,721
so it's how you conduct yourself and
how active you are on the platform.

1050
00:40:36,721 --> 00:40:38,221
And so if you stop,

1051
00:40:39,241 --> 00:40:39,781
it goes away.

1052
00:40:39,781 --> 00:40:39,961
You have the

1053
00:40:39,961 --> 00:40:41,371
ability to lose it now.

1054
00:40:41,791 --> 00:40:42,241
Wow.

1055
00:40:42,291 --> 00:40:42,981
That's smart of them.

1056
00:40:42,981 --> 00:40:44,001
It keeps people hooked.

1057
00:40:44,001 --> 00:40:44,541
So

1058
00:40:45,626 --> 00:40:49,101
it, it does, but the only
benefit, I honestly, if you ask

1059
00:40:49,101 --> 00:40:50,781
me what the only benefit is Yeah.

1060
00:40:50,991 --> 00:40:53,961
Is you can add it to
like profile pictures.

1061
00:40:54,021 --> 00:40:54,531
Yeah.

1062
00:40:54,531 --> 00:40:56,001
It, it draws the eye.

1063
00:40:56,091 --> 00:40:56,331
Yeah.

1064
00:40:56,391 --> 00:40:58,401
But also they give you LinkedIn premium.

1065
00:40:59,076 --> 00:41:00,216
Oh, that's amazing.

1066
00:41:00,216 --> 00:41:00,966
I didn't know that

1067
00:41:01,536 --> 00:41:02,136
there, technically

1068
00:41:02,136 --> 00:41:04,296
it's only supposed to be for a
certain period of time, but if you

1069
00:41:04,296 --> 00:41:06,386
look at my profile it's I don't
know, a hundred years from now.

1070
00:41:06,446 --> 00:41:06,986
Wow.

1071
00:41:07,856 --> 00:41:08,456
Great.

1072
00:41:08,456 --> 00:41:09,326
Nice perk.

1073
00:41:09,416 --> 00:41:10,886
Yeah, there you go.

1074
00:41:11,096 --> 00:41:11,576
Love that.

1075
00:41:11,576 --> 00:41:12,386
Thanks for that insider.

1076
00:41:12,386 --> 00:41:14,576
See, but this is the exact kind
of thing that I think people

1077
00:41:14,576 --> 00:41:15,416
are always curious about.

1078
00:41:15,416 --> 00:41:19,826
They're always, and they're either
out looking in or they're in and still

1079
00:41:19,826 --> 00:41:22,346
reflecting on and learning about.

1080
00:41:22,346 --> 00:41:25,226
So these are the kinds of
conversations I hope to have more of.

1081
00:41:25,226 --> 00:41:25,946
So there you go.

1082
00:41:26,126 --> 00:41:26,606
So

1083
00:41:26,966 --> 00:41:28,766
look at the external validation.

1084
00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:30,526
Of what look, thought leadership is.

1085
00:41:30,736 --> 00:41:31,096
Yeah.

1086
00:41:31,216 --> 00:41:32,986
'cause that is a very interesting thing.

1087
00:41:32,986 --> 00:41:34,876
Thinkers, you think Thinkers 50.

1088
00:41:35,116 --> 00:41:35,386
Yep.

1089
00:41:35,746 --> 00:41:36,346
That kind of stuff.

1090
00:41:36,406 --> 00:41:36,706
Yep.

1091
00:41:36,946 --> 00:41:41,506
And who considers, it's also been very
interesting even to some of the initial

1092
00:41:41,506 --> 00:41:45,196
guests I've reached out to of who even
considers themself a thought leader.

1093
00:41:45,256 --> 00:41:48,226
So I will reach out to somebody and
they'll say, but I'm not a thought leader.

1094
00:41:48,586 --> 00:41:48,706
Yeah.

1095
00:41:49,186 --> 00:41:51,046
But it's 'cause what is, yep.

1096
00:41:51,106 --> 00:41:53,476
And they still say here,
but this is what I'm saying.

1097
00:41:53,476 --> 00:41:54,046
Yes.

1098
00:41:54,256 --> 00:41:54,376
Really.

1099
00:41:54,436 --> 00:41:56,456
I'm not gonna say who
because no, that's fine.

1100
00:41:56,456 --> 00:41:58,096
Because these are some well-known names.

1101
00:41:58,096 --> 00:42:01,426
But you know what I think it's
interesting that because what are

1102
00:42:01,426 --> 00:42:03,016
they defining thought leadership as?

1103
00:42:03,046 --> 00:42:04,516
What are they defining thought leader as?

1104
00:42:04,726 --> 00:42:08,866
So I always though ask Chad GPT, I
think that's a good little litmus test

1105
00:42:09,226 --> 00:42:13,156
is, and then put a name in a thought
leader and just see what they say and

1106
00:42:13,206 --> 00:42:16,146
and so that's actually, and that's what
I use in the trailer script actually,

1107
00:42:16,146 --> 00:42:19,976
is that's how I put my own name in
and saw what it said and it said yes.

1108
00:42:19,976 --> 00:42:22,126
I went, all right, at least
we've got that validation.

1109
00:42:22,306 --> 00:42:25,751
Hey, I have a Grammy award that
perplexity told me that I have

1110
00:42:26,141 --> 00:42:26,431
uhoh.

1111
00:42:28,366 --> 00:42:29,986
So you gotta be careful with those.

1112
00:42:29,986 --> 00:42:30,646
Okay, sedations out there.

1113
00:42:30,706 --> 00:42:31,246
That's right.

1114
00:42:31,391 --> 00:42:32,261
You do gotta be careful.

1115
00:42:32,261 --> 00:42:34,841
But I think if it is gonna help
somebody who is like questioning their

1116
00:42:34,841 --> 00:42:37,391
own yes, genuine thought leadership,
then I think it's a good thing.

1117
00:42:37,421 --> 00:42:40,571
That is actually how I
use AI in lots of ways.

1118
00:42:40,631 --> 00:42:40,781
Yeah.

1119
00:42:41,021 --> 00:42:46,751
Like I ask it a lot of questions and I ask
what it knows about me and then I ask it.

1120
00:42:47,456 --> 00:42:49,256
Confronting questions Yes.

1121
00:42:49,256 --> 00:42:50,126
To make myself think.

1122
00:42:50,936 --> 00:42:51,506
That's good.

1123
00:42:52,046 --> 00:42:54,736
And there was a whole other Ted talk
at today, I actually about that too,

1124
00:42:54,796 --> 00:43:00,346
which was like, don't let these a
AI agents do the thinking for you.

1125
00:43:01,006 --> 00:43:05,206
Have them prompt you
to be a better thinker.

1126
00:43:05,386 --> 00:43:05,566
Yeah.

1127
00:43:05,986 --> 00:43:08,026
And I thought that was a nice
way to reverse, like we keep

1128
00:43:08,176 --> 00:43:10,396
thinking about prompting them,
but get them to prompt you.

1129
00:43:10,966 --> 00:43:12,706
Yeah, no, exactly.

1130
00:43:12,706 --> 00:43:15,826
And I do that too, although you have to
be careful with sometimes the prompts

1131
00:43:15,826 --> 00:43:18,616
that you just line, because there was
one time I copied somebody's prompt

1132
00:43:19,066 --> 00:43:23,386
and it was about if you don't want
AI to suck up to you, oh, how do you

1133
00:43:23,386 --> 00:43:27,106
challenge it to not be obsequious?

1134
00:43:27,196 --> 00:43:27,526
Okay.

1135
00:43:27,636 --> 00:43:33,126
And that prompt was not worded in
such a way that I felt the output

1136
00:43:33,216 --> 00:43:35,796
was like, it actually upset me.

1137
00:43:35,796 --> 00:43:37,416
Like it was so confrontational.

1138
00:43:37,446 --> 00:43:37,536
Oh no.

1139
00:43:38,346 --> 00:43:40,446
And so you have to be really careful.

1140
00:43:41,061 --> 00:43:42,441
How you teach it to behave.

1141
00:43:42,471 --> 00:43:42,651
Oh my

1142
00:43:42,651 --> 00:43:43,101
gosh.

1143
00:43:43,101 --> 00:43:43,371
Yeah.

1144
00:43:44,031 --> 00:43:44,811
It's a good warning.

1145
00:43:45,111 --> 00:43:45,981
Yeah, exactly.

1146
00:43:46,461 --> 00:43:50,871
So what's the difference of
podcasting Canada versus podcasting

1147
00:43:50,871 --> 00:43:52,011
in the United States, do you think?

1148
00:43:52,891 --> 00:43:55,651
If we look at the industry, I
think there's a lot of overlap,

1149
00:43:55,651 --> 00:43:58,441
a lot of similarities, and
yes, a lot of differences.

1150
00:43:58,441 --> 00:44:02,581
I think in Canada, if you look at
the market as a whole, we are behind.

1151
00:44:02,701 --> 00:44:05,911
And that's how we tend to be with a lot of
things, especially in the media industry.

1152
00:44:06,036 --> 00:44:06,571
And that's okay.

1153
00:44:06,571 --> 00:44:07,381
Like we know.

1154
00:44:07,691 --> 00:44:09,041
But it is the reality.

1155
00:44:09,041 --> 00:44:14,861
And so when and I like to actually
go back to around that 2019 time,

1156
00:44:14,861 --> 00:44:17,871
right before the pandemic, we were
still we continued to see a surge

1157
00:44:17,871 --> 00:44:19,161
in podcast listening year over year.

1158
00:44:19,231 --> 00:44:20,821
That was the case then and now.

1159
00:44:21,761 --> 00:44:26,441
But at that time there started to be
this like acquisition frenzy where a

1160
00:44:26,441 --> 00:44:31,121
lot of companies, specifically in the US
started buying up other companies Yes.

1161
00:44:31,151 --> 00:44:32,921
To try to become front
runners in the industry.

1162
00:44:32,981 --> 00:44:34,631
And so what happened
was there was a lot of.

1163
00:44:35,396 --> 00:44:36,566
Over investment.

1164
00:44:37,706 --> 00:44:42,776
And now there's a little bit of a right
sizing happening in the US market,

1165
00:44:42,776 --> 00:44:44,546
specifically Canada never had that.

1166
00:44:44,546 --> 00:44:47,186
We never over invested and therefore
we were never right sizing.

1167
00:44:47,186 --> 00:44:51,536
So actually I think the market, it
as a whole in Canada is quite stable

1168
00:44:51,536 --> 00:44:56,576
comparatively because we were a little
slower and a little more risk adverse.

1169
00:44:56,636 --> 00:44:59,816
And so now if you actually talk to
podcasters who are in the us, they have

1170
00:44:59,816 --> 00:45:02,306
a, they're in a little bit of a crisis.

1171
00:45:02,306 --> 00:45:03,836
There's a lot of jobs being lost.

1172
00:45:03,836 --> 00:45:07,586
There's a lot of entire departments
and companies being shut down and

1173
00:45:07,586 --> 00:45:11,216
a lot of grief, like true grief
over things that people were really

1174
00:45:11,216 --> 00:45:12,806
excited about or passionate about.

1175
00:45:13,556 --> 00:45:16,166
And that's very interesting to see.

1176
00:45:16,166 --> 00:45:17,726
And I wouldn't have expected it here.

1177
00:45:17,726 --> 00:45:21,116
I was watching the American market
at that time going, oh my gosh,

1178
00:45:21,536 --> 00:45:23,066
what a, it feels like a gold rush.

1179
00:45:23,066 --> 00:45:25,256
I wish I could be part of it, but
I feel I'm on the other side of

1180
00:45:25,256 --> 00:45:27,386
the border and I'm so far from it.

1181
00:45:27,626 --> 00:45:31,446
So this is when like they were
buying, like they Harry and Meghan.

1182
00:45:31,506 --> 00:45:35,586
So they were buying, yeah, so it would it,
like some examples were Spotify bought the

1183
00:45:35,586 --> 00:45:40,046
rights to the Joe Rogan shows Alex Cooper
and Call her daddy was getting deals.

1184
00:45:40,046 --> 00:45:42,506
Now she's with Sirius xm,
but she was with Spotify.

1185
00:45:42,926 --> 00:45:46,936
Amazon bought Wondery, which was
a narrative production house.

1186
00:45:47,246 --> 00:45:51,296
So there was all these kinds of, but then
also smaller acquisitions over technology.

1187
00:45:51,296 --> 00:45:53,276
Anchor FM was bought by Spotify.

1188
00:45:53,576 --> 00:45:58,266
So some of the even tech that the tools
were being purchased up squad cast.

1189
00:45:58,956 --> 00:46:02,106
Purchase DS script or the other way
around d script, purchase squad cast.

1190
00:46:02,376 --> 00:46:05,766
So you know, like these kinds
of me, like things happening.

1191
00:46:05,946 --> 00:46:06,036
Yeah.

1192
00:46:06,066 --> 00:46:08,886
And that it was just very buzzy.

1193
00:46:08,886 --> 00:46:10,296
It was like what's bought today?

1194
00:46:10,296 --> 00:46:11,886
Every day was like a new acquisition.

1195
00:46:11,886 --> 00:46:15,486
And so that all happened really quick.

1196
00:46:15,856 --> 00:46:19,111
But now we see, like one of the news
I was just referring to that's caused

1197
00:46:19,111 --> 00:46:23,101
a lot of grief is that Amazon has
shut down that Wondery department.

1198
00:46:23,501 --> 00:46:26,201
They're not doing podcasts, but
they've assigned all the podcast

1199
00:46:26,201 --> 00:46:28,241
portfolios to the audiobook team.

1200
00:46:28,241 --> 00:46:31,421
And like that team that was acquired
is essentially gone completely.

1201
00:46:31,691 --> 00:46:32,351
And so

1202
00:46:32,351 --> 00:46:33,731
they've sent it over to audiobooks.

1203
00:46:33,761 --> 00:46:33,881
Yeah.

1204
00:46:34,766 --> 00:46:36,206
I know this is very controversial.

1205
00:46:36,206 --> 00:46:36,416
Books

1206
00:46:36,416 --> 00:46:38,306
and podcasts are not the same thing.

1207
00:46:38,306 --> 00:46:38,666
Correct.

1208
00:46:38,856 --> 00:46:40,506
So this is why people are freaking out.

1209
00:46:40,626 --> 00:46:41,436
Oh, okay.

1210
00:46:41,486 --> 00:46:42,866
Yeah, I glad my reaction's the same.

1211
00:46:42,896 --> 00:46:42,986
Yeah.

1212
00:46:43,706 --> 00:46:47,666
And but, and causing a lot of concern
and sadness and this is all these things.

1213
00:46:48,026 --> 00:46:52,046
And and also begs is a question
like, why didn't they actually

1214
00:46:52,046 --> 00:46:54,776
just take the top performers from
both groups and try to more merge

1215
00:46:54,776 --> 00:46:56,606
them rather than just shut down.

1216
00:46:57,056 --> 00:46:59,336
They just shut down the
Wondery side completely.

1217
00:46:59,336 --> 00:47:02,246
So this was, and they were still
operating under that brand.

1218
00:47:02,306 --> 00:47:05,396
Apparently they still will, but who
knows what's gonna come out from there

1219
00:47:05,396 --> 00:47:10,556
now on the other side of that move,
but with this, I think we're just in an

1220
00:47:10,556 --> 00:47:16,196
iterative period where people are trying
to figure out how the profits and laws

1221
00:47:16,196 --> 00:47:18,266
all balance out and how, what makes sense.

1222
00:47:18,266 --> 00:47:23,516
And so there was a lot of new money
and now there's a lot of right sizing

1223
00:47:23,516 --> 00:47:24,626
and iterations that are happening.

1224
00:47:24,656 --> 00:47:25,016
So that's all.

1225
00:47:25,016 --> 00:47:25,526
So I think.

1226
00:47:26,516 --> 00:47:28,496
But because of that, we
can learn from the US.

1227
00:47:28,496 --> 00:47:30,416
'cause they took those
risks, they moved faster.

1228
00:47:30,776 --> 00:47:36,026
We've been a little more slow and
take in watching from across our

1229
00:47:36,026 --> 00:47:39,326
border and going, all right, and
so what can we learn from that?

1230
00:47:39,536 --> 00:47:44,216
Where I think Canada's truly lacking, and
we haven't picked up the pace on yet, is

1231
00:47:44,816 --> 00:47:48,236
in support for independent podcasters.

1232
00:47:48,486 --> 00:47:48,546
Yeah.

1233
00:47:48,546 --> 00:47:49,121
No kidding.

1234
00:47:49,251 --> 00:47:53,316
I know everybody's just alone in
their basement or library recording.

1235
00:47:53,426 --> 00:47:57,296
And so you have all, in Canada,
we have all these independents.

1236
00:47:57,356 --> 00:47:59,666
There's lots of independent
people making great shows.

1237
00:47:59,816 --> 00:48:02,381
Successful shows, and then we have.

1238
00:48:03,581 --> 00:48:04,091
The CB.

1239
00:48:04,091 --> 00:48:08,381
C and Rogers has a podcast Arm
and Bell has a podcast arm.

1240
00:48:08,381 --> 00:48:08,681
Sure.

1241
00:48:08,681 --> 00:48:12,541
So these and Canada Land, I would say
is pretty big and up there as a network.

1242
00:48:13,021 --> 00:48:14,611
Hey, banners a CBC podcast.

1243
00:48:14,611 --> 00:48:15,361
I don't know about the others.

1244
00:48:15,461 --> 00:48:16,421
Like these are the Yeah.

1245
00:48:16,421 --> 00:48:20,891
So Frequency Network is with Rogers,
bell has iHeart podcasts, iHeart Media.

1246
00:48:20,926 --> 00:48:22,556
And then Chorus has Curious Cast.

1247
00:48:22,556 --> 00:48:24,176
So these are the big players.

1248
00:48:24,476 --> 00:48:24,956
Sure.

1249
00:48:25,316 --> 00:48:28,256
But the what's in between,
this is what's lacking.

1250
00:48:28,256 --> 00:48:31,796
We don't really have you, maybe you could
say Canada Lands in between kind of,

1251
00:48:31,796 --> 00:48:35,026
but I would say they're pretty much on
the higher end, there's nothing really.

1252
00:48:35,206 --> 00:48:39,226
There's a couple of collectives that
we've got Women in Media Sound Off Network

1253
00:48:39,226 --> 00:48:41,236
Sonar podcast, black Canadian creators.

1254
00:48:41,236 --> 00:48:42,916
There's some collectives emerging, but.

1255
00:48:43,636 --> 00:48:46,216
These are grassroots, these are,
some of them are being done off

1256
00:48:46,216 --> 00:48:47,266
the side of somebody's desk.

1257
00:48:47,266 --> 00:48:49,846
These aren't, there's nothing
really bridging this gap.

1258
00:48:49,906 --> 00:48:55,936
Whereas in the US they have very well
established collectives, net full

1259
00:48:55,936 --> 00:49:00,106
networks that are independently owned
and bringing together independent

1260
00:49:00,106 --> 00:49:04,716
producers to help for instance, like
Radiotopia, where they are a collection

1261
00:49:04,716 --> 00:49:09,966
of shows that are really well made with a
localized sales hub, and they're selling

1262
00:49:09,966 --> 00:49:13,376
and placing podcast ad podcast ads on
all of these different, independent,

1263
00:49:13,376 --> 00:49:14,576
essentially independent shows.

1264
00:49:14,576 --> 00:49:17,666
It's a, but it's just a
really well known network.

1265
00:49:18,116 --> 00:49:19,586
We don't really have an equivalent.

1266
00:49:20,186 --> 00:49:21,146
So you wanna make it Nola?

1267
00:49:22,376 --> 00:49:25,116
No, but I am actually interested
in asking you about the the

1268
00:49:25,116 --> 00:49:26,346
advertising aspect of it.

1269
00:49:26,376 --> 00:49:26,646
Yeah.

1270
00:49:26,646 --> 00:49:30,306
Because I personally fund everything.

1271
00:49:30,456 --> 00:49:30,696
Yeah.

1272
00:49:31,086 --> 00:49:35,766
I'm uncomfortable with
actually having ads.

1273
00:49:36,156 --> 00:49:36,426
Yeah,

1274
00:49:36,576 --> 00:49:42,816
because I'm worried about reputation,
especially because of the topics

1275
00:49:42,816 --> 00:49:43,806
that I tend to talk about.

1276
00:49:43,906 --> 00:49:46,061
I'm constantly challenging the status quo.

1277
00:49:46,061 --> 00:49:51,521
And so anybody who's placing an ad
might have the expectation that I would

1278
00:49:51,521 --> 00:49:55,041
agree with their product, that I would
agree with their their ethics, their,

1279
00:49:55,911 --> 00:50:00,581
how they behave, how their company
operates, how they dedicate their assets.

1280
00:50:00,581 --> 00:50:04,121
And I would look at all of
that, and so I've chosen not

1281
00:50:04,121 --> 00:50:05,981
to actually go down that road.

1282
00:50:06,161 --> 00:50:06,311
Yep.

1283
00:50:06,971 --> 00:50:09,911
I know of a podcaster in the US
for example, he's sponsored by this

1284
00:50:09,911 --> 00:50:14,711
massive of oil company and his show
is all about leading from the heart.

1285
00:50:14,791 --> 00:50:15,121
And I'm

1286
00:50:15,121 --> 00:50:17,731
like leading from the heart, as
long as you destroy the environment.

1287
00:50:17,791 --> 00:50:17,881
Yeah.

1288
00:50:18,631 --> 00:50:19,801
To me that's a disconnect.

1289
00:50:19,801 --> 00:50:20,161
Yeah.

1290
00:50:20,271 --> 00:50:21,201
I don't know how you do that.

1291
00:50:21,411 --> 00:50:21,741
Yeah.

1292
00:50:21,921 --> 00:50:25,431
So I don't know that much
about advertising in Canada.

1293
00:50:25,731 --> 00:50:25,851
Yeah.

1294
00:50:25,851 --> 00:50:28,161
Because I've chosen to,
to not explore that.

1295
00:50:28,731 --> 00:50:30,021
But do you have insight on that?

1296
00:50:30,681 --> 00:50:31,221
Yeah.

1297
00:50:31,221 --> 00:50:31,851
And I think.

1298
00:50:33,006 --> 00:50:37,896
W when I talk about the lack of
middle ground for creators, that lack

1299
00:50:37,896 --> 00:50:42,546
of middle ground also has and is a
bit of a chicken and egg is impacted

1300
00:50:42,546 --> 00:50:45,636
or is impacted by advertising.

1301
00:50:45,846 --> 00:50:50,706
Because even if somebody wanted
to a advertise on some Canadian

1302
00:50:50,706 --> 00:50:52,416
podcasts, where are they going?

1303
00:50:53,076 --> 00:50:56,076
They're either going to the big
players and it's a whole different

1304
00:50:56,076 --> 00:50:58,776
pricing scheme and you actually gotta
do a bundle with probably a bunch

1305
00:50:58,776 --> 00:51:00,396
of the other digital properties.

1306
00:51:01,296 --> 00:51:05,076
Or you're going to an individual
to say, can I put an ad on?

1307
00:51:05,436 --> 00:51:09,936
And maybe if that person has their
podcast on like a cast or a hosting site

1308
00:51:09,936 --> 00:51:12,096
that allows people to buy ads, sure.

1309
00:51:12,426 --> 00:51:18,186
But there's no real middle ground where
we can have somebody selling ads to

1310
00:51:18,186 --> 00:51:20,046
go on multiple independent podcasts.

1311
00:51:20,046 --> 00:51:20,706
You have to go.

1312
00:51:20,856 --> 00:51:23,496
And so that gap is very real.

1313
00:51:24,006 --> 00:51:28,211
But there is, there are people wanting
that someone needs to just fill this gap.

1314
00:51:28,276 --> 00:51:31,686
So maybe someone listening can do
it, but really pooling together some

1315
00:51:31,686 --> 00:51:34,056
of the independent podcasts that
are out there that are very good.

1316
00:51:34,056 --> 00:51:37,086
There's lots, and then representing
them and getting ads placed.

1317
00:51:37,086 --> 00:51:40,986
So Sonar Network is one example
of a network that is doing it well

1318
00:51:41,196 --> 00:51:42,066
because you have yours.

1319
00:51:42,126 --> 00:51:42,906
Exactly.

1320
00:51:42,966 --> 00:51:44,076
My Sleep podcast with them.

1321
00:51:44,076 --> 00:51:46,876
So this is why I could talk with
knowledge with how they work.

1322
00:51:46,876 --> 00:51:50,196
So Sonar Network does, but this
is comedy and arts, so they're

1323
00:51:50,256 --> 00:51:51,696
tailored to a certain genre.

1324
00:51:51,696 --> 00:51:54,756
There's still so many other genres
that can get representation.

1325
00:51:55,006 --> 00:51:55,876
And I have a sleep podcast.

1326
00:51:56,511 --> 00:51:59,571
With original music compositions
done by my husband, which is amazing.

1327
00:51:59,941 --> 00:52:01,591
Called How To Fall Asleep Fast.

1328
00:52:01,591 --> 00:52:03,241
And that is part of the Sonar Network.

1329
00:52:03,271 --> 00:52:07,501
And why I went with them is because
they're one of the few middle ground

1330
00:52:08,011 --> 00:52:13,411
independent collectives that do
this sort of group sales pitching.

1331
00:52:13,531 --> 00:52:18,151
And so the numbers of my podcast
are pretty good, but they're

1332
00:52:18,151 --> 00:52:21,061
really good when you pair it with
three others that are pretty good.

1333
00:52:21,541 --> 00:52:24,451
And so what they'll do is sell for
all of us and do a bundle deal.

1334
00:52:24,451 --> 00:52:27,411
And so because of that, we've had
advertisers like better Help on

1335
00:52:27,411 --> 00:52:31,131
our podcast through Sonar, and
then Sonar takes a cut and we

1336
00:52:31,131 --> 00:52:33,531
get a cut and everybody's happy.

1337
00:52:33,531 --> 00:52:34,911
So it definitely could happen.

1338
00:52:34,911 --> 00:52:35,026
So this is

1339
00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:36,196
reminding me of that Pushkin.

1340
00:52:36,646 --> 00:52:36,856
Yeah.

1341
00:52:36,856 --> 00:52:37,006
Because

1342
00:52:37,006 --> 00:52:38,416
that's basically how Pushkin works, right?

1343
00:52:38,656 --> 00:52:39,196
Yeah.

1344
00:52:39,196 --> 00:52:41,836
And see again then Pushkin is Malcolm
Gladwell's and they're in the US

1345
00:52:41,836 --> 00:52:43,036
like we don't have an equivalent.

1346
00:52:43,066 --> 00:52:44,116
What's Pushkin in Canada?

1347
00:52:44,116 --> 00:52:45,496
We don't have that really.

1348
00:52:45,811 --> 00:52:46,031
No.

1349
00:52:46,136 --> 00:52:46,406
Yeah.

1350
00:52:46,556 --> 00:52:49,046
So this is, which is ironic
since Malcolm Glad I know.

1351
00:52:49,046 --> 00:52:50,126
Come on back, Malcolm.

1352
00:52:51,756 --> 00:52:54,776
Like that's where there's some real gaps
in our in the industry here for sure.

1353
00:52:54,986 --> 00:52:55,136
Yeah.

1354
00:52:55,436 --> 00:52:56,126
That's fascinating.

1355
00:52:56,186 --> 00:52:56,546
Yeah.

1356
00:52:56,546 --> 00:53:00,051
See, this is why I like to have people
on, I could ask questions that I Yeah,

1357
00:53:00,596 --> 00:53:01,016
that you want.

1358
00:53:01,016 --> 00:53:01,436
There you go.

1359
00:53:01,436 --> 00:53:01,916
You get 'em.

1360
00:53:02,676 --> 00:53:05,256
If you're wondering it, it means other
people are wondering it too, so it's good.

1361
00:53:05,886 --> 00:53:06,211
Yeah, exactly.

1362
00:53:06,366 --> 00:53:06,756
That's right.

1363
00:53:07,206 --> 00:53:10,621
So I is there anything we haven't
talked about that you wanna talk about?

1364
00:53:10,916 --> 00:53:11,636
I love that you asked that.

1365
00:53:11,636 --> 00:53:14,396
I always encourage people to
ask that when I do my interview.

1366
00:53:14,396 --> 00:53:14,726
That actually

1367
00:53:14,726 --> 00:53:15,176
in your book.

1368
00:53:15,176 --> 00:53:15,746
I do it all

1369
00:53:15,746 --> 00:53:15,926
the time.

1370
00:53:15,926 --> 00:53:16,016
Yes.

1371
00:53:16,046 --> 00:53:16,646
That's good.

1372
00:53:16,736 --> 00:53:17,581
I can

1373
00:53:17,756 --> 00:53:18,116
see that.

1374
00:53:18,686 --> 00:53:21,596
Oh I will say, since this is the
first official time I'm talking about

1375
00:53:21,596 --> 00:53:24,356
my new podcast, thanks for doing
the research and bringing it up.

1376
00:53:24,356 --> 00:53:26,996
I will encourage people to go check
it out and follow the trailer.

1377
00:53:27,296 --> 00:53:29,176
The it's, let's talk thought leadership.

1378
00:53:29,776 --> 00:53:31,306
You might need to still
type my name beside it.

1379
00:53:31,306 --> 00:53:34,906
'cause the SE like the searchability
of it is so new, might not come up.

1380
00:53:34,906 --> 00:53:38,896
But the podcast, the episodes will start
dropping next year planning for February.

1381
00:53:38,896 --> 00:53:39,286
So

1382
00:53:39,401 --> 00:53:42,441
I dunno what you did with your SEO
but it was the first thing that came

1383
00:53:42,441 --> 00:53:43,701
up when I searched your name today.

1384
00:53:43,701 --> 00:53:43,761
Whoa.

1385
00:53:45,981 --> 00:53:46,161
Okay.

1386
00:53:46,161 --> 00:53:48,081
That's great to hear.

1387
00:53:48,326 --> 00:53:50,481
And literally she has a
transcript that comes up.

1388
00:53:50,481 --> 00:53:52,041
It's probably just the apple transcript.

1389
00:53:52,101 --> 00:53:52,491
Yeah.

1390
00:53:52,491 --> 00:53:52,501
Yeah.

1391
00:53:52,641 --> 00:53:54,081
And you've got the trailer and that's it.

1392
00:53:54,111 --> 00:53:54,351
That's

1393
00:53:54,351 --> 00:53:54,621
it.

1394
00:53:54,666 --> 00:53:57,511
It's it's very new and that's
why, but I found it like

1395
00:53:57,511 --> 00:53:58,831
it's the first immediately
that was listed.

1396
00:53:58,881 --> 00:53:59,481
Great.

1397
00:53:59,541 --> 00:53:59,901
Thanks.

1398
00:53:59,901 --> 00:54:01,701
And so I did it speak to you?

1399
00:54:01,701 --> 00:54:03,471
Do you feel like that's the
kind of show you'd listened to?

1400
00:54:03,741 --> 00:54:04,341
Oh yeah.

1401
00:54:04,346 --> 00:54:05,301
Why do you think I'm asking?

1402
00:54:06,181 --> 00:54:07,681
I wanna, I don't wanna
get honest responses.

1403
00:54:07,681 --> 00:54:07,981
I don't know.

1404
00:54:07,981 --> 00:54:09,841
You're like, so few
people have heard it Nola.

1405
00:54:09,841 --> 00:54:11,101
Honestly, it's so new

1406
00:54:11,101 --> 00:54:15,121
so I'm fascinated to hear what
other people, how other people

1407
00:54:15,121 --> 00:54:16,381
talk about thought leadership.

1408
00:54:16,381 --> 00:54:16,441
Yeah.

1409
00:54:16,736 --> 00:54:16,856
'cause

1410
00:54:17,396 --> 00:54:18,686
I think it's a polarizing topic.

1411
00:54:18,776 --> 00:54:19,196
I think.

1412
00:54:19,196 --> 00:54:19,826
So that's why.

1413
00:54:19,826 --> 00:54:23,366
And actually I did a little bit of
focus grouping and I realized that,

1414
00:54:23,366 --> 00:54:25,166
and I thought, do I change the word?

1415
00:54:25,166 --> 00:54:27,416
But I'm like, no, but it actually
just has to be that, and we have to

1416
00:54:27,416 --> 00:54:29,246
just talk about it being polarizing.

1417
00:54:30,026 --> 00:54:30,596
It's, yeah.

1418
00:54:31,076 --> 00:54:34,496
And maybe somebody is actually doing the
thing, like the things that I think about,

1419
00:54:34,496 --> 00:54:35,666
but I associate with thought leadership.

1420
00:54:35,666 --> 00:54:38,636
Maybe someone who doesn't like the word
is actually still doing all the things

1421
00:54:38,696 --> 00:54:39,596
and they just don't like the word.

1422
00:54:39,596 --> 00:54:39,686
Yes,

1423
00:54:39,686 --> 00:54:39,956
absolutely.

1424
00:54:40,376 --> 00:54:40,856
So it's like

1425
00:54:40,976 --> 00:54:42,121
how, the way to talk about that and

1426
00:54:42,221 --> 00:54:45,566
how it, we talked about that
briefly is how podcasting actually

1427
00:54:45,596 --> 00:54:47,646
comes up in, in pop culture.

1428
00:54:47,756 --> 00:54:47,966
Yeah.

1429
00:54:48,016 --> 00:54:52,766
So I happen to hear a podcast earlier
and they were talking about an author

1430
00:54:53,276 --> 00:54:57,386
who didn't know how to characterize a job
that one of her characters had, and her

1431
00:54:57,386 --> 00:54:58,961
agent said, just have it be a podcaster.

1432
00:54:59,621 --> 00:55:00,611
Murders in the building.

1433
00:55:00,731 --> 00:55:04,661
All these oddballs, you just happen
to have podcasting to fall back on.

1434
00:55:04,721 --> 00:55:05,141
That's right.

1435
00:55:05,201 --> 00:55:07,121
And you mentioned Sarah Jessica Parker.

1436
00:55:07,211 --> 00:55:07,661
Yes.

1437
00:55:07,661 --> 00:55:10,691
In the city, it's if you wanna
update a T trope, you just

1438
00:55:10,691 --> 00:55:11,806
have the person be a podcaster.

1439
00:55:11,806 --> 00:55:11,816
Yeah.

1440
00:55:12,131 --> 00:55:12,461
That's it.

1441
00:55:12,801 --> 00:55:15,111
What does that actually
look like in real life?

1442
00:55:15,111 --> 00:55:18,891
Because Yeah, I can tell you I
don't have a whole closet like Sarah

1443
00:55:18,891 --> 00:55:20,681
Jessica Parkers or Selena Gomez.

1444
00:55:22,301 --> 00:55:22,901
That's right.

1445
00:55:22,961 --> 00:55:26,081
And it's interesting to see how it's
represented in some of these shows.

1446
00:55:26,081 --> 00:55:28,361
And how they very much
glamorize it a hundred percent

1447
00:55:28,661 --> 00:55:30,041
but there is that glamor.

1448
00:55:30,071 --> 00:55:30,521
Yeah.

1449
00:55:30,521 --> 00:55:33,581
Like we were talking about diary
of CEO, I actually hate that show.

1450
00:55:33,851 --> 00:55:34,541
Keep quite honest.

1451
00:55:34,541 --> 00:55:35,856
Yeah, it's fair.

1452
00:55:35,856 --> 00:55:36,816
Malcolm Gladwell again.

1453
00:55:36,941 --> 00:55:37,271
Yeah.

1454
00:55:37,421 --> 00:55:41,501
I think when he did that show with Steven
Bartlett and it went on for two hours and

1455
00:55:41,501 --> 00:55:43,631
they started talking about remote work.

1456
00:55:43,711 --> 00:55:43,801
I

1457
00:55:43,801 --> 00:55:48,481
think Malcolm Gladwell got tired
and just actually went off about

1458
00:55:48,481 --> 00:55:53,291
in-person work and it escalated
globally and he never talked about it.

1459
00:55:53,911 --> 00:55:54,421
Whoa.

1460
00:55:54,421 --> 00:55:56,501
I haven't listened to this episode, so
I'm gonna have to go back and hear it.

1461
00:55:56,501 --> 00:55:56,796
Oh, listen

1462
00:55:56,796 --> 00:55:57,396
to this episode.

1463
00:55:57,536 --> 00:55:57,756
Ooh.

1464
00:55:57,776 --> 00:55:58,916
Sounds it actually fiery.

1465
00:55:58,916 --> 00:56:03,841
It was actually the first, I have a
theory about in-person work and presence.

1466
00:56:03,896 --> 00:56:07,436
And that certain people are
validated by meeting in person.

1467
00:56:08,116 --> 00:56:12,256
And certain people have that ability
to actually maintain digital presence

1468
00:56:12,556 --> 00:56:16,006
and don't need to read body language.

1469
00:56:16,186 --> 00:56:17,176
They can listen.

1470
00:56:17,206 --> 00:56:17,776
They can.

1471
00:56:18,296 --> 00:56:22,086
And it's a skill that you
can develop if you want to.

1472
00:56:22,136 --> 00:56:25,856
It goes into your mental
models and how the world works.

1473
00:56:25,916 --> 00:56:26,246
Yeah.

1474
00:56:26,366 --> 00:56:31,076
And Malcolm Gladwell, as ironic
as it is, he travels all over the

1475
00:56:31,076 --> 00:56:34,256
world to meet people, to talk to
people, but he's a very person for

1476
00:56:34,256 --> 00:56:36,596
somebody who like connects remotely.

1477
00:56:36,686 --> 00:56:36,926
Yeah.

1478
00:56:38,246 --> 00:56:40,466
And that podcast is where
that theory started.

1479
00:56:40,706 --> 00:56:41,216
Interesting.

1480
00:56:42,326 --> 00:56:45,646
And that's fascinating to
me because Steven Bartlett

1481
00:56:45,676 --> 00:56:47,836
gets amazing people on there.

1482
00:56:48,181 --> 00:56:48,421
Yep.

1483
00:56:48,521 --> 00:56:52,001
Louis Tomlinson just had, it's the
only podcast that's ever actually

1484
00:56:52,001 --> 00:56:53,621
been released into the theaters.

1485
00:56:53,771 --> 00:56:56,861
And today he's interviewing Kamala Harris.

1486
00:56:56,951 --> 00:56:57,131
Yeah.

1487
00:56:57,581 --> 00:56:59,441
How do we get that in Canada?

1488
00:57:00,311 --> 00:57:01,841
Yeah, it's true.

1489
00:57:01,841 --> 00:57:02,321
Some of, because he's

1490
00:57:02,321 --> 00:57:03,916
not doing anything that
can't be done in Canada.

1491
00:57:04,026 --> 00:57:04,516
Correct.

1492
00:57:07,061 --> 00:57:07,391
He

1493
00:57:07,391 --> 00:57:08,501
is a

1494
00:57:10,001 --> 00:57:13,271
entrepreneur and
specifically in marketing.

1495
00:57:13,481 --> 00:57:17,711
So you also have to recognize it's like
all of his best skills at play that

1496
00:57:17,711 --> 00:57:20,831
led to him being so successful after
you listen to his earlier episodes.

1497
00:57:21,251 --> 00:57:23,591
They're a little rough
actually for him as a host.

1498
00:57:23,591 --> 00:57:27,591
Like he had to really, he really learned
on the job, but it was his marketing mind

1499
00:57:27,591 --> 00:57:29,656
that allowed him to gain such success.

1500
00:57:29,986 --> 00:57:36,976
And so I think it's when will Canadian
talent or Canadian podcasters.

1501
00:57:37,681 --> 00:57:41,941
Team up with a master marketer and
really be able to try to have a run

1502
00:57:41,941 --> 00:57:43,261
at it and cut through like that.

1503
00:57:43,321 --> 00:57:46,891
I think it's possible someone's just
gotta put in the blood sweat and tears.

1504
00:57:46,891 --> 00:57:49,021
Like he did, like he
really put in the hours.

1505
00:57:49,121 --> 00:57:49,451
Yeah.

1506
00:57:49,841 --> 00:57:49,961
Yeah.

1507
00:57:49,961 --> 00:57:51,691
It's not like we don't have Dragon's Den

1508
00:57:51,761 --> 00:57:54,986
So that's why if Arlene Dickinson
wanted to do one of these is that's

1509
00:57:54,986 --> 00:57:58,031
what I was thinking of, like I'd
listen, you'd but she has to want,

1510
00:57:58,031 --> 00:58:00,971
she has to do it and then put the
marketing in and and do you wanna do it?

1511
00:58:00,971 --> 00:58:01,691
It's a lot of work.

1512
00:58:01,691 --> 00:58:03,851
So it's not for everyone I get,
but I think we do have some

1513
00:58:03,851 --> 00:58:05,101
great Canadians who could do it.

1514
00:58:06,061 --> 00:58:07,951
But you know what, we have
some great Canadians who did

1515
00:58:07,951 --> 00:58:09,391
it, like Erica EM'S podcast.

1516
00:58:09,421 --> 00:58:11,491
She stopped because she
couldn't get sponsorship.

1517
00:58:12,541 --> 00:58:12,931
Okay.

1518
00:58:12,931 --> 00:58:18,301
But I will say that you
have to look at the timing.

1519
00:58:18,331 --> 00:58:23,161
You have to look at how many people were
actually around and how many people were.

1520
00:58:24,001 --> 00:58:29,111
Podcast professionals verse other kinds
of professionals we'll sometimes see a

1521
00:58:29,111 --> 00:58:34,961
bunch of radio folks who are brilliant
with audio, but they never marketed a

1522
00:58:34,961 --> 00:58:39,311
podcast trying and then really upset
that they didn't get sponsorship.

1523
00:58:39,341 --> 00:58:40,321
And it's I don't blame you.

1524
00:58:40,321 --> 00:58:42,871
You've never actually done that before.

1525
00:58:42,931 --> 00:58:43,171
Yeah.

1526
00:58:43,291 --> 00:58:47,161
So you have to really have
that right team around you to

1527
00:58:47,161 --> 00:58:48,781
really make a proper run for it.

1528
00:58:48,961 --> 00:58:49,381
Yeah.

1529
00:58:49,411 --> 00:58:50,011
That's what I'll say.

1530
00:58:50,851 --> 00:58:51,061
Yeah.

1531
00:58:51,211 --> 00:58:53,161
No, it's valid and that's
why I stay away from it,

1532
00:58:53,161 --> 00:58:53,401
because

1533
00:58:54,001 --> 00:58:55,171
that's not what I'm going for.

1534
00:58:55,201 --> 00:58:56,611
No, you're strategy.

1535
00:58:56,671 --> 00:58:57,091
Yeah.

1536
00:58:57,091 --> 00:58:59,886
For me it's about the business
and honestly, the ideas.

1537
00:59:00,666 --> 00:59:01,326
Thought leadership.

1538
00:59:01,386 --> 00:59:02,166
Yeah, there you go.

1539
00:59:02,496 --> 00:59:03,846
And you're doing it, so congrats.

1540
00:59:03,906 --> 00:59:04,176
Yeah.

1541
00:59:04,356 --> 00:59:04,686
Yeah.

1542
00:59:04,956 --> 00:59:05,136
Thank you.

1543
00:59:05,136 --> 00:59:06,246
And thanks for having
me along for the ride.

1544
00:59:06,466 --> 00:59:08,026
It's amazing and thank you.

1545
00:59:08,026 --> 00:59:11,806
As I said, it is so rare that anybody
wants to actually come up to Keswick.

1546
00:59:11,806 --> 00:59:13,276
I'm happy, honestly.

1547
00:59:13,276 --> 00:59:13,786
It's great.

1548
00:59:31,831 --> 00:59:32,736
Find yourself in.