Ep 225 - "Building Champions, with Clinton Tierney"

0:00 Wow. How many of you have listened to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast? I can't tell you that reaction, how much that means to us. Welcome back to the Head, Heart & Boots podcast. I'm Chris. And I'm Brandon. Join us as we wrestle with what it takes to transform ourselves and the businesses we lead. This new camera angle makes my arms look smaller than yours. I'm noticing that and I really appreciate it. I thought you did that on purpose. No, I don't. I didn't. And I am not happy with it. Well, welcome to the show, gang. We have, for some of you, it might be a familiar face. Some people will remember the man, the myth, the legend. I just want everybody, really quick, I want everybody to know that...

0:42 I like your hat, by the way. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Backbone CFO. I just want everybody to know that Brandon actually asked for permission to open up the podcast today. Every once in a while, I let the king of the airways give me the first right. Usually, I get the first jump on it. But historically, that's not true. This has been a battle, I think, actually, in the making for five years. Let's not bore people. Pull your shit together. Let's get to the show. All right. So I'm going to do a formal introduction for those that haven't had the pleasure of meeting Clinton before. He actually is worth listening to. So 21 years we realized in the industry and literally filled every role from technician to ended up kind of at the apex and that VP of sales role and literally everything in between.

1:34 I was like, so were you every formal a GM? And you're like, I wasn't a GM. And then you went on to like, I iterate like 14 other roles by job title that you had inside the space. So needless to say, 21 years of, man, I don't know how you've stuck in this industry that long. This thing's brutal. And then with us, and I had to ask, which I kind of feel embarrassed about. But we're about to hit a little over a year and a half. A year and a half by 18 months. Yeah. Which is a trip. Yeah, we hit one year anniversary. What, March, April? Yeah, April something. Yeah, yeah. So it's been about a year and a half. That's exciting. Super great. That part's been the easy part. 21 years in restoration. That was like dog years. Yeah, that's right. So you've technically been like 52 or something.

2:15 Yeah, yeah. I look really good for a 90-year-old. Yeah. I still got this hair for 90. Somebody said that. I can't remember who it was, but they used the term. But in restoration years, it's like whatever. He did like a 10x multiple on it. It's like, man, I feel that. That's legit. Yes, that's legit. Okay, so we're going to go kind of a specific direction this time. So Chris and I were talking about this and we're like, man, so we've spent a couple days together. You and your wife, who's actually people are going to like you. And what they don't know is actually your wife is more cool than you are. Yes. But so we've been hanging out for a few days together as a team. At the beach. At the beach. Yep. It's been awesome. Beautiful weather.

2:56 Yeah. You brought weird weather with you again. Yeah. But it came up that we were asking you more about kind of like your history and all those things. Well, it comes out. So we're going through Clinton's schedule. This is not boring. It's just crazy. And Clinton works his A off for his clients, our clients. And then on top of that, he's got a sports team at home for kids who are they all play travel ball, high level, both baseball and softball. Right. Mm hmm. And then you have chosen to coach all of that. Yes. And so you're walking through your weekend. It's like you get done being a consultant on Friday at some point. And then you roll right into full-time coach all the way through the weekend.

3:37 Pretty much. Yeah. It actually starts early. It starts Mondays. I mean, we've, it's, it's, I have no downtime. My, my day starts at 5.30 AM every day. And then I am literally coaching or working till almost nine 30, 10 o'clock at night. Oh my God. I've been for years. And doing that at 32 is really, you know, it's really looks good on you. So, so in the middle of this conversation, we're like, Oh my gosh. So, okay. So why, why are you spending the time, the resources on, on coaching like this and like following your teams around? The question sounds a little silly, but it's like, I don't think people understand the kind of routine that you and your wife have committed to for sports teams.

4:18 Yeah. And you started to unpack that. And I think it really struck me. Basically, when I think about you as part of our team, there's a very high level of respect and admiration for the way you carry yourself, the way you show up, the way you helped us, the way you build the team, take care of your clients. And all of a sudden, it kind of landed on me. Like, oh, that's why. So the reason I want to dig in to kind of like this coaching background is it is technically... what makes you an unbelievably great team member for us and the way you take care of people. So I want to go all the way back, though, because obviously you got into baseball before your kids were.

5:00 Yes. So kind of give us this baseball history. What happened? How did you get into that? Like, where did this start? And then I'll grill you. I mean, I think my story is no different than most. I mean, I played just rec ball when I was a kid, and I didn't really get into baseball as early as some. Like, my son and daughter, They have probably already played more games by the time they were 13 and 15 years old than I probably all did almost all the way through college. I mean, that's how much they played. We played, I just played regular rec ball. I didn't play middle school. I didn't even play JV baseball. I really didn't get into it until about 10th grade. And, you know, I was always...

5:40 average to above average it was a pretty good ball player but um i didn't really hone the skills until about 10th grade and something clicked in me when i was about that age and i was like man i'm really good at this and i really really like it you start to own it yeah i really started to own it yeah was there a coach or a person in your life uh That's a great question. I was always blessed with pretty good coaches. I really, even at the youth age, I really did. There was one that stood out. I had a really great high school coach, really good travel ball coach, or I guess we call it travel now, was Legion Ball back then. There was a guy named Jeff Burns. He played AAA ball, and he was a catcher, and I was a catcher. And he made me fall in love with the sport and the position.

6:24 And that was like, and all my leadership skills, I think, you know, God works in mysterious ways. That was, that was when it really started for me. Cause when you're the catcher on the field, you're the leader. And I was always captain of my teams and I had to be the loudest. I had to, I had to lead and I had to lead by example, so on and so forth. So it started back then. I really, really liked that. And a lot of other players my age has kind of followed me. So yeah, I started really honing in the craft. And then I was blessed enough to play in college. I think about 6% of all high school athletes play at a collegiate level. And I was one of those. So I played four years in college as well as a catcher.

7:04 And I just, I loved the game. I loved. I contribute where I am now as a father, a husband, coach, consultant, my leadership, Everything that who I am stems from what I learned as just an athlete in general, but specifically baseball. So was that coach that you referenced, what was it that stood out? Did he just highlight the role and the importance of it? Or what? What clicked? What got you excited about it? He was just a really memorable guy. That had a lot to do with it. But he saw something in me. I think a lot of it really was, I think most athletes will tell you, there's that one coach that...

7:47 They just had such an influence on you that you'll just remember the rest of your life. And again, this is nothing against any of my other coaches, but this one guy really, he saw something in me that no one else had ever seen. And I didn't want to let him down. And he was actually really hard on me. He was very hard on me. I learned a lot of my coaching style comes from what I learned from him because he wasn't always nice to me. You know, he was hard on me, but I learned from him. And I learned that I could overcome failure, and I could push way outside of my comfort level. And it was just, and all of a sudden, my body started just playing the game at a really, really high level.

8:29 And a lot of schools come after me. It was great. When you say he was hard on you, paint a picture for us a little bit. What did that look like back then? He helped me do a really, really high standard. I wasn't, when we were in practices, if I was socializing with some of the guys while we were running or doing any type of drill, he would call me out. And I had no, it was a very short leash. And at the time, I was like, God, why is he running me so hard? Like, what's he got against me? Yeah, he's just busting my ass constantly. He doesn't let me breathe. And some of the other kids, he would let them fool around, but he was so hard on me. And I didn't get it at the time, but now I do. Mm-hmm.

9:10 And so part of what he did was he never, he pushed me to be a leader when I was uncomfortable. And he pushed me physically to do things. When we are a catcher, it's a very physical, it's very physically demanding, but also mentally when you're, working with pitchers and pitch counts and defense moving things and first and thirds and framing and blocking and all the things that, like, it's such a demanding position. And he would not let me in practice lose my focus. And he, I mean, he just never stopped.

9:50 He was, it, it, it. rode me really hard, but I ended up loving it. I actually prefer that style of coaching and that's kind of what I do with my kids now. But I, cause I see the outcome of that. And, you know, he wasn't my friend at the time later years down the road. Once I got in college, he was, you know, he patted me on the back and said, great, great job. We got you there. But, So there wasn't even necessarily something that was sticking out in parallel to the hard charging, the driving, the staying all over you like that. Like, was there something that he was doing or saying that was giving you the vote of confidence to continue to allow it or? No, not really.

10:31 I guess I really I think he read me really well. He knew I didn't need a pat on the back. That was not how you got me. to push me to get the most out of me. I didn't need a pat on the back. I knew it was pretty good. I needed someone to tell me you need to work harder. You didn't work hard. Good job today, but I think next practice you can work even harder. And whatever I did was never good enough. not in a negative way, but he was just pushing me. He continued to push me mentally where, where I started showing up to practice. And then inherently I stopped letting my other athletes, my other ballplayers, not do drills as hard or not do them correctly.

11:15 You were pulling. I started pulling up the rest of the team. I started noticing that. And that's hard as an adolescent, by the way, like a high school level college. It wasn't, it was, it's all business, but at a high school level, that's not easy to do. You know, what's kind of interesting about that inferring a little bit is, is like, I wonder if he identified, he's like, I can, I only have so much time and attention. Yeah. And he's like, if I, that guy's high leverage, uh, If I lean on him, I'm going to get another five or six players to level up because of him. Yeah, yeah. And I think there was probably some wisdom in that as well. He played at a pro level, and he probably knew what he was doing more so than I did at the time.

11:55 And I remember running into him years later. I was like, my God, you were hard on me. And he goes, yeah, I was. He goes, you're welcome. And I just didn't realize it at the time. Yeah. But but yeah, I think he knew that I would react well. And I think he knew that I would bring up the rest of the team as well. What was life like? So then you went on to play D1 ball, right? Well, I actually I didn't play D1 ball. Oh, you did? No, no. I played D3 ball. I had some offers at the D1 level, but I went to school with my brother. Oh, that's right. I'm a five. And here's the, you know, from people that can't see me sitting down right now, I'm five, seven with my shoes on. I was probably never going to go pro. And I kind of knew that.

12:36 So I ended up going to a smaller school. Everybody's got to be a six foot starting block. I knew it. Yeah, I knew it. Yeah, I knew it. Yeah. So, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, dude, we will have to get into it. You know what I want to do is I want to get you and your brother on the show at some point. Oh, my brother's. That would be fun. That would be hilarious. Yes. What was the biggest, you talked about college being all business. What was probably the biggest change or biggest adjustment for you when you started playing college ball? Oh, that's easy. Because I went to a really good school, too, by the way. They were like World Series at that level several years after I left. But when I say it's all business, like... In my high school, I think I had like 475 or 450 or something like that.

13:16 And I was a big fish in a very small pond. And I thought I was a big deal. Let me back up. I did go D1 Juco for a year before I ended up moving on. But even when I first got there, I thought I was going to be the big man on campus. And I was a backup catcher. I had never been a backup to anyone at any point in my life. For anything. For anything. Like I was the big fish in a small pond. How did you deal with that? That was really one of the hardest things I ever went through. Yeah. Yeah, I really did not like it. And I still thought I was better than the other guy. But he was playing and he was getting playing time and I wasn't. But I think I look back and like Jeff set me up to overcome that.

13:58 Like it was hard at first. And I ended up leaving that school for far other reasons. It had nothing to do with the catcher, the guy that was starting over me. But eventually I would have. I would have taken that position because I had the tools to overcome this obstacle. I didn't have it in me to go, oh, well, that stinks. He's just better than me. Yeah. It wasn't in. Like settle in. It wasn't. Yeah. There was no complacency. I knew and I'd been taught if you want something, you got to go get it. You got to earn it. Nothing is given to you. And you used to tell me that all the time. Like everything is earned.

14:39 Nothing is given to you. Life owes you. nothing so i worked and worked and worked i got to where i was because of how hard how hard i had to work yeah um and then even when i went on there were other catchers there and i was a starter for the rest of my collegiate career but i had to overcome some kids that were mvps and all state and all kinds of awards i had my backup catchers man they wanted my position yeah So always had to work hard. Yeah. What were some of the things that, you know, this guy, just Jeff, right? Yeah. This coach. What were some of the things you learned to do or even just on your own volition to get ahead, stay ahead, to compete against like people you wanted their seat, right?

15:22 Yeah. What were some of the things that you did when you were playing ball to get an edge? I mean, I just, it was consistency. I had to be consistent. I knew I had to outwork everyone else, I had to show that lead by example, and I had to be consistent. And I knew that if there was ever a time where I took a day off because I was sore or I took some time off, or I didn't go to the gym or I didn't go to the lift, I didn't get up early to run, I knew the other guys were. And if you have that in you, it just goes into your professional career, it goes into how your husband father and all these other aspects.

16:07 Like I've got to earn it and I got to outwork everyone else. And I got to be consistent. I can't take time off. And that was, I mean, that was one of the biggest things. I don't know if I answered your question, but that was what I learned from, from Jeff was consistency and outwork everyone else and don't make excuses. I just, it was, he was very big on like, yeah, I'm sure you are sore. I'm sure your arm does hurt. Or I'm not. And yeah. Or I'm sure you do have homework tonight and I'm sure you do have a girlfriend and I'm sure he's like, he just didn't allow me to make any excuses and said, if you want something, I don't know. What's everything that's in your way. You're, you're creating that.

16:48 Yeah. You're putting everything in the way. Yeah. It's an allowance. It's like all those things can be true. And this other thing is true at the same time. You and I, we were talking about this a little bit. I think it was yesterday. It's this idea that most of us don't, we're not in situations that cause us to be exposed to that, especially when you're young. You're not going to be sitting around under your own authority to say, I'm going to put myself through some hard things when I'm in high school so that I grow some nuts. So it's this idea. It's like when people are in these team sport environments like that, it's the...

17:30 It's this slowly but surely they're being challenged in this thing. And then it's at the games and it's at the practice. And it's like they build a career of being challenged in certain ways that they probably would have had a very difficult time placing themselves in. And so they have a chance to develop these tools in a way that's like really native. Because I think you and I were talking about some of the stats of how many, I think you said it, like how many executives or high level people in businesses were D1 sport players and stuff like that. I wish I had the statistics, but it was like 90 some percent of all Fortune 500 CEOs and presidents. like 90, high 90% of them had played competitive sports because sports, it's the greatest training ground.

18:15 It's the greatest life lessons where nothing's just given to you and you got to work hard and you got to put the work in outside of practice and you have to have mental discipline and you have to, and you have to be consistent with your nutrition and your sleep and taking care of your body. And you just learn so much through sports. Yeah. And it, it, it, in most of the people that I've hired throughout my professional career, I love, I'm looking for athletic backgrounds. And I like to talk to Tim about the one I'm interviewing. Yeah. Love to talk about their sports background. Yeah. What did you play? What sport? How long? What did you learn? Yeah. How has that affected who you are now?

18:57 Yeah. And I can learn a lot about, because interviews, we all know this, it's a 50-50 at best. Like it's very, very tough. You're gambling. But when you can talk about their athletic background, you can find out a lot about who they are, you know? Yeah. And so it's a great training ground for people that are consistent in discipline and mentally strong. and can overcome like they're critical thinkers. They, they, they, they don't just go, I don't know. Yeah. They just give up at the first sign of friction. Yeah. It's why like, I'm, I'm kind of a believer in mandatory military time. Yeah. Like, you know, some countries you got to do two years in their military.

19:38 I actually really believe in it just because it does that. Because I didn't, I wasn't, I mean, my high school was nothing about sports. I was doing everything other than being associated with sports. So I was a late bloomer from that perspective. But honestly, like my military time, again, it's the same thing. You get into this environment where you no longer have the choice if you're going to go through the hard stuff. And it's overtime. Of course, a little bit compressed in the military, but it is. It's like one thing at a time until you build things. this skill set of being in really bad situations for extended periods of time. But it's, it teaches you so much. So like a mandatory military service, I think it's a great, it's a game changer because it's what, it's what you're talking about.

20:21 They're building these skill sets that allow you to do hard stuff or stay in the, in the trench during that friction and work through it, not give up. And yeah, yeah, Because you can see it like it's I'm going to make my daughter a little bit. Abby, if you listen to this, it's cute. But when she was really young, I remember like when we would be doing things that resembled exercise as an example. And you know how like in the morning when it's a little cool outside and you breathe deep, how you almost get that little bit of pain in your because you're breathing in the cold air. And I remember I can't remember the circumstances exactly. But Abby. basically is, is telling me she's communicating in her own little way. Like I kind of feel like I'm dying cause I'm breathing hard and it's cold outside.

21:04 And it's, it's like, that's just such a, an example of how easy it is for us at the first sign of something that feels more like discomfort for that to be a reason for us to stop pushing into the hard times. You know, I think it's a learned skill. Yeah. I don't think it's just natural. I think it's more natural to go, oh, I'm breathing hard. I need to slow down. Or, oh, it's really cold. Yeah. I need to be in warm. I need to go inside. And the mandatory military or sports background, it teaches you to work through those things. Anybody can learn it. That's the cool thing. Yeah. Anybody can learn that mindset. I didn't have military and was never super serious about sports.

21:45 But then I discovered CrossFit and I did CrossFit for five years. That's awesome. And that really was, I mean, people may say, oh, CrossFit. But it developed that in me. It does. It probably developed you just as much mentally as it did physically. It really did. Because I remember this one workout. I've actually written about it. You did. You did an article. I did an article in CNR Magazine. It was like how I found myself on the gym floor. Yeah. Because you get to the end of some of these workouts, and you just don't think you have it in you to finish. Yeah. And I remember this feeling of I've got like 15 more reps of this ab exercise I got to do with. It was the finisher.

22:25 Yeah. And I just, I remember consciously thinking, am I going to be the kind of person that pretends I'm done and gets up and leaves with everybody else? Mm-hmm. Or am I going to be the kind of person that does it? And I'm the only one that's going to know. I could fake it right now. And I just, I remember hitting that moment. And then subsequently, I've probably hit that moment 25 times, you know? And in these work, even since, like CrossFit really taught me that. It's like, why did I come to the gym in the first place? Did I do it to fuck off? Or did I do it to like change myself? Yeah, change. Exactly. Change is tough. Change, right? And so it's that, it's that drive in you that's like, I can get one more set in.

23:05 You know? Yeah. I could leave, but I'm going to put one more set in, you know? Yeah. I think it really is important. And a lot of kids miss that. If they don't do competitive sports, they don't go into the military. There aren't a lot of things in life where people... get that no that's i mean that's the problem i i think that's why you have to it's like either we're doing something to draw kids into that team sport environment and of course i mean i think we could have a whole other talk about how people are showing up to to lead kids in sports and for handing trophies out because you did your hair that morning or if you actually are fighting you know yeah uh but but i think there's beauty in that they're building that skill and development they get a super young military it's probably okay.

23:50 Yeah, of course. I'm talking really young. Yeah. It's a skill set that's warranted. The challenge when we make things easy... You're going to suffer like there's suffering coming. And I just it's interesting because I think we've talked about that a lot internally and even in companies where people make the comment like we're going to choose our suffering. We're going to choose our hard. It's like we're going to do hard work. We're going to commit to showing up when we even when we don't feel like it because you're going to pay for that somehow anyway. So you either pay it because you chose to work hard up front and be intentional or you're going to suffer.

24:31 the consequences of not being prepared or of quitting or perpetually starting over either way, there's a price like that. It gets paid. So anyways, dude, I want, I want you just to talk your, your current coaching philosophy and how you work with your kids. Cause last night, man, when we were hanging out, I was just like, this is leadership gold. Yeah. You're talking. And so just give us an example of what, of Coach Tierney looks like and sounds like now. And then maybe eventually we'll get to sort of how that translates into your work with clients because you end up... It goes with the same stuff. Yeah. Everything that I do professionally now has kind of stemmed from coaching.

25:14 And when I was done playing, there was, you know, I watched baseball and everything on TV, but I didn't play a little bit of softball. And then I felt like I was getting too old. But I didn't really start. I kind of... walked away for a long time until my son and daughter were born. And then once they started playing, it was by accident with my son, actually. We had another coach who was, quote unquote, daddy ball. It was a real severe case of daddy ball. And the parents got together and they're like, we don't like daddy ball. And so that coach was removed. And... there was me way in the background going, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to coach. Yeah.

25:54 And everyone's like, yeah, is there a doctor in the room? And so I was like, fine, I'll finish out the rest of the season. And that was five years ago. Now I'm, I'm coaching three teams, but that was how I got into it. And then from a coaching style, It's been really tough. It's a hard. Youth sports is tough. When you're dealing with parents and children with... attention spans that are not like yours. You have to come up with ways, but my philosophy has always been this. And when it was nine, you 10, you all the way up to my daughter's playing 16. You now it's been, let me say this, the practices, the way that I do the practices is different.

26:37 The way that I do the games. Yeah. I learned that from another coach and I have always done that. When I, since very young, I'm hard on practice. I learned that from Jeff Burns as well. Jeff, very hard on practice. That is where I push. That's where I challenge. And that's where I make them run really, really hard. And I get them out of their comfort zone. You can even do that at a younger age. And then when it came to the games, I just love on them. That's when the game is supposed to be fun. So my coaching philosophy is, has always been one. And first and foremost, I'm making better kids. Baseball and softball come second.

27:17 Because I've always enjoyed when people do good, like it's not about me. It's I love seeing others succeed. So I love coaching from that standpoint, but I wanted them to become better human beings first and foremost. And the parents always really liked that about my coaching style. Secondly was practices are really, really hard. And then games are a lot of fun. Why is that? What's the theory behind that? With baseball and softball, you are failing already 60% to 70% of the time. So they don't need any help being piled on during the games. And the game itself is the most amazing game.

27:59 I love it. Truly my biggest passion. Love it. And I've learned my whole life I owe to the game. So I want these kids to enjoy it as much as I did. And so when we play, we have to have fun because you're going to strike out. There's going to be a big gust of wind in the air. There's so many variables in baseball and softball, unlike other sports. Basketball, the rim doesn't change, and the basketball is the basketball. And same with all these other things, whereas baseball, softball, a gust of wind, and the ball moves 10 feet in another direction. bat hop in the infield errors are going to happen.

28:41 And then hitting around object with another round object and trying to make it go in a straight line, like physics alone, that's really, really hard. So they're going to fail. And I want them to love the game. So I'm their biggest cheerleader when they do well on the field. And I teach them to what we call flush it. And I'll give them the flushing sign when they make an error. Be a goldfish. Be a goldfish. Be a goldfish. Yeah. And so in practice, I don't allow, like, I'll be like, no, you didn't do it right. Your feet work. Like, I will rep and rep and rep, and I will drill, and I will scream and yell in a positive way. But I will be relentless on the perfection during practice because I know that once they go in the games, perfection is...

29:32 unrealistic in the game baseball and softball so you believe in a lot of the greats talk about practice is not just about repetition it's about perfect practice yes it's about correcting the mistakes in practice so you're a believer in that same thing yeah i i preached this even professionally now as well i know we're going to get into that but i like to just go in hand in hand so much I don't like to practice something until I get it right. I will tell my kids practice this so many times you can't get it wrong. And there's a big difference there. There's a huge difference. So, and that's that, that consistency that I was telling you about earlier.

30:15 Yeah. That, that mental discipline to do it over and over and over. You don't get on a tee, hit five balls in a straight line and go, I'm a great hitter. You're not. You're not. It takes, it's 500 swings. It's five days a week. It's 52 weeks a year. And that's how you get to the next level. I've heard coaches talk about that. Like the, there's, there's mental pressures that will be naturally applied during the game. Yeah. And so it's like, it's similar. Cam Haynes talks about this from like a hunting perspective because like he's a, ultra marathon runner does all this stuff that he started doing basically to ensure that his body was prepared for the hunt so it's same idea practice very hard practice maybe put yourself in the kinds of situations that are an extreme version of what you'll be exposed to on game day or what you'll be exposed to during the hunt and you'll be all the more prepared.

31:07 But I've heard coaches talk about the mental pressures that already exist during the game. So it's like the coach doesn't want to pile on. Like you said, it's already going to exist. So let's do all that piling on and creating a similar circumstance without the pressure of the game here, and then let the game be prepared. be the game. Be the game. Because you don't want them worrying about what the coach is freaking uptight about when they're already worrying about other players and all the other variables. Yeah, and I'll coach against other youth coaches, and I see them screaming at the kids and yelling at the kids, and the kids are out in the field and they're crying. I'm like, what are you doing, man? Yeah, like, what are you doing?

31:48 Go hug that kid. He's a kid. Right up until these kids get into varsity level, like 10th, 11th, 12th grade, none of that stuff. Just be supportive and go out there. The game is hard. And I think part of coaching – is being like knowing when to be a disciplinary, but then also knowing when to be encouraging in the, in their biggest supporter. And I tell my, you know, I've got a rep that I'm working right with right now. And I tell her all the time, like, I'm your biggest cheerleader. She loves that about me. I'm just, you know, she's been in the game for a really long time. She, so she, she's, she's, she's got battle practices in.

32:29 Yeah, she's got the practice in. So we are strategic in a whole nother level where I'm just her biggest cheerleader in a lot of ways. I've always been a big fan of, like, I consider myself a player's coach. Even in consulting, I'm a player's coach. I don't treat everyone differently. My outcome, my goals are all the same. How I get there with each individual player or owner is, EDM that I'm working with, it's always different. You know what this kind of has me processing Clint is this idea of I'm going back to training and I'm just thinking how badly we let ourselves down from a training perspective.

33:14 So I'm thinking about what you're saying. I'm like, okay, so I buy into this. I'm 100% on board. I totally get what you're saying. I've worked under leaders in the military that Our training, our drills, everything that we did was so that game day for us was muscle memory. Muscle memory, yes. You don't want to be chewing on what action do I take? Do I go left or right when it's D-Day? Yeah. And I'm just thinking about this from a business owner perspective. I'm going, oh my gosh, man. Because every time as a restoration company, blue collar service company, when our people go up to the door... It's game day. Yeah. Like we're, we're playing for points, right? Yeah. So what have we, like, what does practice look like?

33:59 And I'm just, I'm just thinking to myself, like, and this is not a judgment. This is me, my, my companies and the companies I've been leaders in. Like, did we really show up Monday through Friday when I, when we considered training and equipping our people, did we really look at it and say, um, as soon as they show up at the door, it is game day because those are the points we're keeping score with, right? Yeah. So my OJT, when I throw him in that guy's truck that I actually don't really like that guy that much, he's actually not a great team member, and I'm not quite sure if they're going to be here in another week or two, and then I put a brand new person in their truck with them, and I'm thinking to myself, somehow I'm equipping that person to be ready for game day.

34:40 Yeah. It's just kind of embarrassing to think about it. It happens. Like all the time. All the time. Like I just think about all the companies that we've had both the pleasure and other to be around over the last... 20 years and man, I training, I have not been around very many organizations that, that I looked at their training and went, wow, that really kind of stops me in my tracks. Like that's real training. That's if you think of from a sports perspective, like you, you're practicing five days a week to travel ball specifically or high school, whatever you're practicing two hours a day, five days a week to go play these games. What's your hour ratio?

35:20 What's the ratio there, right? Then we go into our professional careers and we just, we in the restoration industry, blue collar in general, reactive hires. Oh man. We're all guilty of that. Yeah. And we're not really training them. We're not practicing. Not at all. We're not practicing near enough. There's no consistency and we're just expecting them. to go be as good as you would be as an owner. And there's no, we're already setting them up for failure. Failure. And I was probably the coach with the guy in the right field crying. Yeah. Like I'm just thinking, on game day. On game day, yeah. Yeah. Oh, man, this is kind of convicting. Yeah. It really is.

36:02 When you think about it, I'm kind of like teaching myself something right now. Yeah, right. Because I'm guilty of it just as much. Yeah. Right? You know, it's funny. It's like when you're in something for a period of time, like a long period of time, like we're all kind of in the later parts of our careers and stuff. And it's like... You learn different ways to communicate what ultimately is the same message. If we just look over history as a consulting team, leadership, honestly, there's these 10 things that we're always returning to. We just kind of say it a different way. I'm thinking about this training thing. Chris and I, when we first started Floodlight, we would do a two-day seminar. And the first day was basically essentially ops. And then we kind of moved into sales and closed with sales.

36:42 And I used to get... red in the face pissed when I would start talking about how we treat employees from a training perspective. And it's because it really bothers me, but man, I'm like looking over my own and it's like, yeah, compared to this guy or that guy, I was better. Um, But was I really that coach that was like changing people's lives because we put the hard time in in the right place? And I can't really say that with conviction across the board. But thinking about this and dialing it back, that message back to this coaching mentality, now I feel like I have a different way to communicate that that I'm maybe more connected to and that I think people could receive differently. But we don't.

37:23 train right. To think about the hour ratio in a high performing team, the practice versus the action. I'm thinking about every mission prep we did before a live mission in the military. You spent years, sometimes months practicing something to ultimately be in the situation for a handful hours. Yep. And yet the ratio that we live in as an operation, as a business is so backwards. It's ridiculous. It's not even close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we've been, as a consulting company, right, we've been deploying this new field recording software, Porter. And we first got like turned on to it doing a pilot project for Rilla for a client earlier this year.

38:10 We have probably 2,000 recordings at this point. Probably at this point. Yeah. Of technicians with homeowners, with BD reps, having meetings with property, all the things. And I think it's been startling. It's been sobering anyway. With that first project we did earlier this year with these multiple locations and 20-plus technicians... We met their mitigation managers and they were being diligent in training. Yeah. They were having soft skills training in their morning stand twos. They had an onboarding process at each of these five locations we were working with. And Christy and I were just dumbfounded.

38:50 Yeah. When we started listening to the first couple hundred recordings in the field, there was no consistent process. Yeah. And that's the takeaway we got. And that's a team that is practicing. That's a team that is intentional. And this idea or this concept that most of the time, the volume of training that we're doing does not survive the field. People can hear you as the mitigation manager, the GM or the ops manager, whatever your role is. They can hear what you're saying and they can even understand it when it comes out of your mouth. But I think one of the big disconnects is that those of us who've been doing this for five years, 10 years, 21 years, I think we forget just how many reps we got in before we got this good at delivering that message to the customer.

39:43 And that might be certainly dozens, if not hundreds of reps before we ever got good at explaining the work authorization or laying out an agenda for our inspection. Right. Or as the BD rep, setting an agenda for a meeting with a portfolio manager. We do these things as sort of just without even thinking now. Yeah. But this was just such a good reminder that our people need what you were describing, which is... relentless like yeah like oh aren't we done coach no we're gonna do it 15 more times yeah like we just and i'm guilty of this too like when i would have sales meetings and i i think a lot of us are i'm guilty of it right now oh my god pyb and i'm like getting i'm having guilt shame talking about myself yeah i know but like when i was leading sales teams You know, I would muster because everybody hates role play.

40:40 Right. But it's so effective. But it's so effective, but everybody hates it. And so I think even as sales managers, and this was probably a weak spot for me. You don't have any. I think a lot of times as sales manager, you hate being the one that's always wanting to do role playing. It sucks. And so then even when you choose to do it in a team meeting, you do a couple rounds. You move the heck on. I think we just need to change the name from role play to drills, and we'd be fine. Probably. Maybe. Just because it's called role play. I try not to use the word role play for that. What's your – Let's run a drill. I just say, let's just walk through some scenarios together. Yeah, there you go. That's what I say all the time. Okay, now you do it. Yeah, and – Yeah.

41:22 very effective. I'll do the role play or the scenario on both sides. Yeah. I'll train them on what to say, and then I'll put the pressure on me and I'll pitch to the rep. Yeah. So that there's less pressure on them. Yeah. But that kind of consistency is going back to that consistency. Like, yeah, Yeah, that's the pattern. That's the pattern. Okay, so I got to bounce something off here because I want to see if you would affirm this or not. So I've heard people, and I prescribe to this, is I always felt like I learned much faster if there was basically like these kind of three elements. One, it was like I was shown or taught or however. Then I'm doing it under guidance, right? But then like the ultimate outcome, and this changes a little bit from what we used to teach even, is teach it.

42:09 So like you're taught, you do it, then you teach. And it was crazy how much faster things would become cemented as a skill for me when I trained somebody else. And it's funny because it took me a little while to put this together. But like in your military time, that's what this whole chain of command teaches. It's like... you're the new guy on the totem pole and you're going to do the socializing that like that there's work to be done on the social side of things and learn your place in the hierarchy and then earn your right to be the person that gives somebody else in the ranks, the garbage. Right. But it was, you learn something and then almost within a very short period of time, almost every time you would be put in a position where you were then responsible for doing the training and equipping others.

42:57 That's, And that's why the ranks move so fast. So like if you think about in military environments, how young people are and how short of a period of time they're in a career before they're responsible for people. So think about this. So day one, you're a private E1, let's say, if you're thinking about the army. So you know rank. All right. Often, people could get several ranks, become a private first class before they even left boot camp. That's a 12-week period of time. And part of it was something... Maybe they were in team sports already. They had some kind of basis. But then they would do a good job of then contributing and adding to the team.

43:42 So within three months, you saw somebody go from new guy to training to a certain extent. And then when you left the ranks and you get to your unit, it's the same thing. Like you're moving very quickly to where somebody with five years in is already an E6 plus. Five years. Like that's going from young person to well into leadership ranks within a very short period of time. Yeah. Part of the reason they do that. Well, one, they train... absurdly amounts of time. But those young people are almost immediately put into positions where they're then communicating, they're holding people responsible and it just sticks. So it's anyways, that was a lot of preaching.

44:22 So for you, like, is that part of what was happening? Cause you said catchers tend to be team captains in a baseball environment. Is that like what's happened? It's like you're learning something and you're immediately now having to like skill other people up and hold them accountable or. Yeah. I mean, I guess just in that general position, you're, everyone looks to you. Like everyone else is facing this way in one space. You've got the full view. I got a full view of the field. So to be an effective catcher, you really have to have those great leadership skills where you, you're okay telling to a degree, grown men what to do and where to go. And you're owning that field.

45:03 Right. And that comes through lots of repetition in practice, lots and lots of repetitions. You become more comfortable in that. But it's like we were just talking about the more you, the more repetition. And then I was as a catcher, like I was teaching to your point, teaching the game, teaching them where to be teaching them because I needed to know all of their positions. Yeah. As a catcher. So, and I would see with a hitter, whether he's pulling out or whether he's diving or whether he's having a trouble with an off-speed pitch. And then I would be able to adjust. I needed to be able to teach the team to move one way or the other based off what I was seeing while catching the ball and watching the, the footwork or the hands of the hitter.

45:49 And so more to your point, like consistency and, and then being able to teach it. Now you have been trained correctly. So I actually like that. Maybe we came up with like a whole new training program. Yeah. Man, that's interesting too. This, this, this is the crap I could nerd out with you forever. But like thinking about that catcher, I never, it's so stupid, but I've never thought about the fact it's the one role that, It's literally facing the opposite direction from every single other person on the field. Yep. Yep. There's got to be some leadership. Yeah. Has to be. Somewhere, right? Just in the term of like, how often is in our roles as leaders in our companies, do we need to ensure that we're placing ourself in a position to be sure we're at least the only person looking in the direction that potentially the team's not, it's a different, different show, but it is, it's the lessons keep coming out of team sports.

46:43 Yeah. That was because you said that you, you highlighted for us, like why you believe team sports were so important. You've obviously touched on it today, but I mean, you nailed off like six or seven different items. And I'm literally, that's the bedrock of awesome people on your team. Like, It's a no wonder they kind of come to the surface, you know. You got people that have played competitive sports, especially when they become leaders in their professional career, like they become, like for us in consulting, like we become battle buddies. Yeah. I know how to get in the trenches with an owner. I'm okay with it. I might not know everything, but... I'm willing to jump in the trenches because I played these competitive team sports and, and, and battled through hard times with lock, you know, lock arms with other teammates and overcome adversity and gotten through hard times.

47:36 And so, and from, it just has poured trade over into my consulting. Yeah. Cause I lock arms with either as a fractional sales leader with my BDMs and their territories across the country. or even with some of the owners that I'm working and we're working through like really specific problems, I may not have the answer and that's okay. We're not consultants because we're the smartest people on the planet. It's because we've got these skillsets that sports has allowed me to have to wear. I'm like, man, I'm not sure, but let's jump in this together and fix it. And let's figure this out, figure it out. And it's like, I'm not going to shade away from it. I'm not going to be scared. Let's just jump in this together and battle through.

48:17 And we become battle buddies. I've been in the trenches. It's a great skill set. So I kind of want to pivot into that because I think otherwise the clock might run away and we'll never really have a chance to talk about that part. But one of the things that I've seen and I've personally been challenged by before is, you know, when you're working with business owners. And leaders inside these organizations, for all intents and purposes, these are apex predators in their own right. Like you're working side by side with a strong GM. They probably had these wins along the way. That's why they're now in a leadership seat trying to figure this stuff out. Same with owners like entrepreneurs take risk like, you know.

49:00 And so it can be a little intimidating. And I think sometimes what happens is people that have had really great experience, or they have great experience, they're bringing something to the table that is very valuable for somebody if they actually hear them and partner with them and let them integrate their experience and their knowledge into the situation. But it can be difficult because you're around really... capable people. So they may not have this one strength in their business that you've got some skillset in, but they're still building 10, 20, $50 million companies. They're taking chances. They're cutting pay. Like it's not a weak game, like a game for the week.

49:43 And so, you know, how does like D one or like your time in sports, like being around other players, like you've talking about your kids playing in travel ball. These are not the bottom of the barrel, talented kids that your kids are playing against. No, not at all. How does that even come into play? Have you ever even thought about that in your comfort level, working with some of these business owners? That's a really good question. Well, well, When it goes to my kids, I teach what I know about leadership. But as far as working with owners now, I'm just really comfortable around those guys because I've been an athlete my entire life. And those are usually A-type minded coaches.

50:24 very strong willed winners. I've always been around winners. Even the two restoration companies that I was part of that grew up, grew to 50, 60 million. I was part of those executive teams. I've been around those people for so long. I'm just really comfortable with it. But you can't, in good leadership, you've got to be able to listen. And you've got to be able to, it's you guys have been around those guys before like it's it's there's a balance to it like you can't come in like a bull in a china shop yeah because i don't want to out apex these apex predators like you put it like you can't come in like that it's not the job and but you've got to be able to come in with confidence you got to be able to listen and but i've just been around them for so long that It comes kind of natural to me, I guess.

51:19 Kind of lucky there. It's like so much of a head game, though. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just even thinking about... I think that's a superpower, I guess, is that when very capable people are stacked in a room and you can be self-confident to know that the thing I have to accomplish here is still to empower that person. They're still the priority. It's not about me. It's not about floodlights, not about whatever. It's still about offering whatever I can to shore up a weakness or make them greater than they already have. already are or whatever. But I think that's an intimidating space. I think that that's part of what differentiates somebody that can be a consultant or be that battle buddy like that is that a lot of people know stuff.

52:06 A lot of people have done things. A lot of people have been there and have the shirt. But I think they struggle being the kind of person that can understand, as my wife would say, being the right size at the right time. And I feel like that's something I've seen you do a lot. You do that inside our own company. I think part of you has had to do that over the last several days. I think if somebody was observing from the outside your interaction, let's say with Chris and I, with our team, I remember when Christy came on board and we've had... people come in and out of the ranks. I think people would make the false assumption that you don't believe that you have as much to offer because you can be quiet and because you can allow the existing leadership to make their moves and do what they need to.

53:01 And you have opinions like your opinions came up this weekend. And obviously, you've thought about it more than once. Like when you communicated, I'm like, dude's been chewing on that for a while. So you're thinking this way about the business, but you know how to be the right size at the right time. And I think that's what makes you an awesome battle buddy to these companies. I think the reason our clients succeed under you is that you know how big to be. how loud to be, how quiet to be at the right time to let that person still be the main character of the story. Yep. And that's really great. Like it's not super common, dude.

53:43 You know, so it's an important part of leadership. It's massive. So I, I want to take a turn here before we land the plane. Sure. Um, I thought last night we got in a really cool vein where we were talking about setting the standard as a leader and holding the standard. Yeah. And you kind of opened up the conversation when you became, you transitioned to sales after 15 years in ops. Yeah. Oh yeah. You transitioned to sales and you were talking about kind of your standard uniform. and how it deviated from kind of what you were seeing your competitors doing, how they were showing up. Can you just kind of walk us through that? Yeah, that's great. That was a fun conversation. I think as owners and even individual contributors, you set your own standard of excellence.

54:28 And the more that you allow, the lower that bar goes. That goes for owners and that goes, again, for individual contributors. And when I was a business development manager, at first I was wearing jeans. Because my competition was. And I think at the time, some other people were just wearing jeans and a T-shirt. And then over time, I started realizing if I want to elevate myself, not only within – not even just personally, I want to elevate my own excellence. But I wanted to be – in the outside territory, like I wanted to be looked at differently than all my competition.

55:13 And what eventually, so I started wearing dress shoes, khakis, sometimes even real dress pants. And when I was getting into presentations, I was wearing a jacket. Like I really looked a whole not, I didn't look like a, like a service provider. I was elevating my own game. And what happened was the rest of my business film and team also started dressing a certain way. And then I saw other parts of the executive team start to wear khakis and button ups and it changed an entire culture. And so, and I learned that from owners that I worked for in the past that they're like, you set your own level of baseline standard of excellence.

55:58 And that part is up to you. And I think we all get to set that. And so owners that allow things to happen, you're setting that baseline. So I dressed to the T's because that's who I wanted everyone to perceive me as was right hand of the owner, executive, whether that was actually where I really was. A person of authority. Yeah. In the org chart, I was just a business development manager. But everyone just assumed that I was a much higher ranking person because I carried myself that way. Yeah, that's interesting. And you also talked about kind of the effect of that, what you experienced when you were prospecting, going in for meetings, cold calls.

56:44 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I didn't look like the internet guy coming in to talk to people. Like I really, when I walked in, like, I looked like I was somebody. And I can't. It meant business. It meant business. And even when I dressed that way, I carried myself at a whole nother, I saw myself differently. Yeah. And so I got a lot more meetings like that. And because the gatekeeper, quote unquote, depending what my vertical was on the commercial They would let me go talk. I would be like, hey, I'm here to talk to Chris. They didn't ask if I had appointments like, oh, okay, let me go get Chris. They weren't 100% you weren't a regional manager.

57:25 There's a guy in a suit in the lobby for you. Yeah, but when my competition was going wearing T-shirts and polos with jeans on and trying to do the same thing, they're... They were getting a cold shoulder. I got a lot more meetings. And then I conducted myself in those meetings. Like, if you don't do business with me, you're at the front of a very long line right now. Like, I got so much business. It's coming out of my ears right now. And that's the confidence that I carried myself with because of the way I dressed and portrayed myself. Yeah. I like that. That's interesting. When you, when you started saying that last night, I actually bristled a little bit, to be honest. Yeah. I've, I've been such a dress up guy.

58:07 Yeah. Well, I've been, I've been known to actually suggest to reps to, to go out and look like a technician when they're cold calling. And I think, I think a lot of it is time and place. Would agree with that. Right. I would agree with that. Yes. Like I think in certain settings, I, it can be really helpful to appear to be a technician because maybe the same gatekeeper kind of walls don't go up because they're accustomed to having technicians of various kinds come through the doors. And so maybe it's, they're more approachable that way. Yeah. But I've also lived and experienced what you're talking about. Like when I first was coming up as a VP of sales working with Brandon, For most of those years, I wore a blazer and a button-down collar.

58:54 And I found the exact same response that you've described. And often I would even cold call in that, depending on where I was at. And – If I'm going after, if I was going after plumbers, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was my day for, that would be, that was my, my boots, jeans. Yeah. Carhartts. Yeah. When you're an outside sales, you're a chameleon. You're, you're whoever you're going after that day. But if I was going after any version, any vertical of like a portfolio manager or an engineer facilities, maintenance person, you were going to match or exceed. I match or exceed. Yeah. Yes. So it's interesting. It's funny. You made the comment about you feel different.

59:34 And I do. I don't tend to want to be dressed up. But when you do, there's a new swagger that kicks in. I don't care if you look like a million bucks or 999 bucks. It's like you're feeling more pimpy when you're dressed like that. And I've kind of thought about that in terms of uniform at a place of work from that perspective. So not necessarily that it has to be that nice or something like that. But I just kind of think back to my military days. There's something when your uniform sets you apart. Yeah. And it's almost like that's the principle. And you said the chameleon piece.

1:00:14 It's like, you know when to deploy what. based on the outcome that you're trying to get. But you do want this sense of your team members to not look like the average schmo on the street. They have a purpose. They're a team. They're unified. They're professionals. And so the consistency in the uniform for me at minimum was just always something to say, I don't belong to that, but I do belong to this. And then ensuring that this, what we do belong to is the right message, right? Or the right... the right title. And then the other thing though, inside that is being sure that leadership does stand out. So even in tech ranks early on, I would rather have seen a project manager in a polo, for instance, versus our t-shirt.

1:01:03 Because I wanted people to understand that if that individual walked into the particular room with the homeowner or business owner, they need to understand that Tommy is not the same as Jenny. Jenny in a t-shirt, Tommy in a polo, that means something. What does that mean? Well, the other two people in a t-shirt keep going to Tommy. And so clearly polo means leadership of some sorts. And so we've even talked about that in commercial work sites. Clearly identifying people via their uniform and creating that distinction of who's who because it actually creates this internal sense of pride. So when a young budding leader in a team gets this ritual assignment of a new shirt and that shirt signifies they no longer belong to this, but they belong to that, they begin to act like that.

1:01:56 And the team begins to act in accordance with them that they now no longer are part of this, but they're part of that. I guess it's probably not too dissimilar as like this idea of like having a maturity relationship. age and some kind of ritual around you're no longer a kid like stop fucking acting like one can you talk because you recently worked with an owner and they're probably going to listen to this so we'll just we'll add a little uh a little repetition for the message But you were recently dealing with one of your owner clients, and you kind of called them out. You felt like there was some incongruence. Do you want to talk about that? No. Because I think he can handle it. Yeah, no, no. It was a great conversation.

1:02:36 Because I think it's just common, right? I think it is. And owners, when they get those in the day-to-day mundane situations, Sometimes they just forget to level up. And I don't think that the owner that I was speaking to had done anything wrong, but he admitted that like he wore shorts. And I said, if you're trying to go from 10 million to 20 million, you can't wear shorts as an owner. Because it sets that line. Like if you're wearing shorts, then everyone else can wear shorts. Your business development team can wear shorts. You might think that other admin and your staff can wear shorts.

1:03:18 And like what you were just talking about, Brandon, your project, like in both of my old companies, our project managers, they were button-ups. Sometimes you couldn't tell the difference between them and... and the business developer reps out there. And so that matters. And so when the owners are getting ready for the day, how they present themselves matters. And it was not an easy conversation to have. But... Similar to what we were talking about before. Yeah, but I think the other thing though that you brought up as part of that was that this owner, and this is so true of so many of us, right? You're like, I'm the owner. There's certain advantages I have that there's certain privileges that I have that others don't because I took a lot of risks.

1:04:03 I put a lot on the line to get those privileges, right? And so you can have that mindset. But most of the time we have expectations of our downline people. Yeah. And usually the expectation is like in this example, yeah, no shorts, you know, and, and that was his, so there was incongruency. And he was the one that brought it up because I was telling him at the time, I don't. We did an onsite. The BDMs were not wearing what I would call the appropriate attire. And so I said, hey, I want to make that change. And then he was, he's such a good leader. He looked at himself in the mirror and was like, hey, Clinton, what do you think about this? It was like a personal call out. He personally called himself. So it was uncomfortable because he asked me what my thoughts were on it.

1:04:46 So I told him the truth. But in the grand scheme of things, it was a good conversation because it leveled him up. I think he's like, I'm not going to wear shorts anymore. And now we're going to get his business development team to start wearing, sharpening up. And I assure you that the rest of the staff. is going to do it because when we're in restoration or any type of blue color service, in my opinion, this is something I've always said, we're in the customer service business. We just happen to do restoration. So if you want to go in and look like a construction worker, let the rest of the competitors do that. But if you want to level up and be a great communicating, great culture, great company that's growing, look like it.

1:05:28 Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I think that goes to everything. I think it's shop. I think it's vehicles. Yeah. Like I won't use any names myself, but we were working with a pretty large team out of New York. And I just, same thing, man. But I'm a little more comfortable. So, I mean, we walked one of their facilities and I honestly kind of tore the whole thing apart from uniform to house, man, because it was like, When you walk in here, is there anything that makes you feel like you're trying to achieve something? Yeah. Does anybody that walks into this building and through the front office have something that gives them some kind of impression that we're working hard here?

1:06:12 We're leveling up. We're trying to be different. No. And it's like, so I think at some point, these are kind of those things that I think they move from, yeah, it's an opinion, to, well, yeah. Yeah, but I kind of know I'm right. Like, because it's, it just works out that way. Like people are people. We have some very normal human things that we're attracted to or that modify our behavior. And I think if there's nothing in the environment that says we're trying to be better or different than somebody else, then what's motivating that? Yeah, what's going on here? Right now, the folks here were in Corvallis, Oregon, the home of the Oregon State Beavers, for those people that have no idea.

1:06:54 Everybody knows about the Ducks. Everybody knows the Ducks. I have to make a mention every now and then. Which, by the way, they're actually having a great year. People are really excited about the Beaver football team right now. We have a new coach. And... One of the things that is interesting, I saw something come across my Facebook news feed, and it was a photo of all these players getting on the bus to go to an away game. There you go. I know where you're going. And they were all in suits and ties. And that's not been true in the past. My best recollection, I thought, well, that's because normally they're in warm-ups. They're all pimped out. They got their glasses on. They're like, they're ready.

1:07:35 They're ready to meet some ladies. It's really what they look like. And they got their gear bag slung over their shoulder. And so it stood out to me as, okay, this coach is set in a new tone. I'm holding all of you to a higher standard. We used to be. Now we're – Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might have done that last year, but that ain't how we roll anymore. Yeah. And you could just see it on these guys' face. There was a stoicism. Yeah. These guys were locked in. really made me think i mean i went on some football too and they're winning some football and so this is this is really making me think just listen to you last night and that whole uniform thing and like the dress there is something to it and i just think it becomes so easy when the standard is so low yeah and it is generally so low in the blue collar trades and i think it's just really easy to just kind of glide along with that versus saying that we're gonna strike a new standard Where did we hear that stat?

1:08:33 If an owner's at whatever, then the team's going to be like 20% less than that or whatever. It's like they're only going to bring 80% of what the leader brings. So if you're anything less than 100%, you're absolutely not going to get what you want. So it's like we got to be over, really, more than what we anticipated. And you could take the subject that we have right now and apply it to any aspect in the business. We're currently talking about the way the team should dress, but you can take that level of standard and apply it to everything throughout your entire firm. And apply it and say, are we allowing something that we don't want? What's a standard when you're in charge?

1:09:15 What's a standard that you like to hold? Like when you were managing your BDs, what were some of the standards or expectations you had in terms of behavior or the way they talked about certain things? What were some other standards? That's a good question. Well, there was a dress code. I was very clear about that. I held them to a very high level when it came to that. And then activities, KPIs. The way that I always manage people. I was trying to be as fair as I possibly could. So I would lay out all of crystal clear what my expectations are. Sales quotas, KPIs, the way you present, the way you communicate with me, the way you communicate with your team, doesn't matter what it's like.

1:09:58 I laid it out crystal clear. And then I had them teach it or regurgitate it back to me so that we're on the same page and they're very well aware of what their expectations are. And then when they don't meet those expectations, I'm no longer the bad guy. They almost feel bad. And they would say, Clint, man, if they had an off week and I was like, hey, Chris looks like, you know, activities are a little down. I'm so sorry, Clint. You're right, and I'll do better next week. Like, I didn't have to manage to it. Because it wasn't an opinion. You were speaking the same language. Yeah, I wasn't the bad guy.

1:10:38 They knew what the expectations were. So I was very clear with that. And I've always... Professionally, I've always been very much like that. Set a very, very clear, crystal clear expectation. Make sure that they understand it, have agreed to it, get their input. Maybe it's not exactly what they want. They've got some opinions. And when we land, these are now the working grounds of our professional relationship. And I think owners could do that as well with the rest of their teams. Because it has been very, I learned it from a book. I can't think of the book right now. Great book. I'll let you guys know it. You know what's kind of funny about this? I don't know if it's funny, but so how long did Christy work for you?

1:11:19 Christy was under me for probably a year. Okay. I think. Okay. Or so. So for folks that don't know, so Christy Corley is one of our other advisors, one of our other consultants. Hammers. And she's awesome. In her own right, just absolutely an all-star. And I was just kind of thinking about, like, you guys operate kind of at a similar... I mean, she's certainly her own person, but you guys do have kind of a similar way that you show up. And so I was just curious how long, right, that you had kind of been in that leadership position with her. But she's a similar way, like being the right size at the right time. Like she knows when it's time to be sweet, kind.

1:12:01 She's got that accent. And then she also knows though, when like this is a standard we're not going to be deviating from. So I'm not the path of least resistance for you. But I guess, was there much crossover there in terms of some of these standards and things like that? I'm just curious if you have any stories. Yeah, Christy was – She's always bringing the standards. My one-on-one was I had to keep up with Christy. I mean, I didn't have to. She was doing $5.5 million a year, crushing it in a tiny Knoxville, Tennessee. She had a GM and an ops team, and they reported to Christy. I didn't have to. I enjoyed work with her because I, I, our conversations, our one-on-ones were very strategic.

1:12:46 I never had, I never had issues with, yeah, she was in it to win it. And, and she was right on board with all of my expectations. And I created like a scoreboard back the day. I had some people that didn't like the scoreboard and Christie was like a hundred points. No problem. I'll do a buck 20 just to make, just to make everyone else go under like subconsciously she was doing, You guys have seen the 100-point system that I have. She would do like $1.20 just so the people hitting 70, 80 were like, there's no excuse for it. No excuse. No excuse. No excuse. And so, yeah, Christy was always great. And we were. And that's why I promoted her.

1:13:27 She was like, that she needs to come up alongside. Because at one point, I think I had 16 or 17 reps on her. And that's just too many. And I was like, God. So bringing her on, she was a, she was a hammer and still is. I just want to say this. I mean, we've covered so much ground. We've talked about training principles. We've talked about sort of the philosophy of coaching that you brought to baseball, learned in baseball and bring to business today. I think one thing I wanted to say as we wrap up, you held people to, you made very clear expectations set for your people and you continue to do that with your clients. But I think the thing that's so powerful about you, and we could say the same thing about Christy, is you embody that same high standard.

1:14:12 It's the only reason why it works. And I think that's an important takeaway for all of us. You can set a high standard as a leader, but if they don't see you showing up and holding that same standard, at some point, everybody's going to relax into a different and play a different game, different level. So I think that your ability to coach other people up, it speaks a lot to your skill, but it also speaks a ton to the standard you hold yourself to. I think that's really important for us as leaders to keep in mind. Yeah, I have a final question. Yeah. So obviously what we've gotten so far is just like commitment to discipline, structure, all these things.

1:14:56 What's guilty pleasure though for you? Like let your guard down. You're not worried about performing. You're not worried about standards. Like what is Clinton like? I don't give up right now. I'm just chilling out. What does that mode look like for you? Is there such a thing? God. Brandon wants you to see a video game so he doesn't feel the name. I know. Guys, I get up at 5.30. I go to the gym. I'm in my desk by 7, 7.30. I work right up till 5. And then I grab my son or daughter. And on Mondays, we have HIIT trainers. Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday practice. Friday nights. My guilty pleasure is...

1:15:36 hugging my wife because I haven't seen her in four days. And then we get up at 6 a.m. the next day. I go with one. She goes with the other. And we try to slap, you know, high five later on that night. And usually we're at the ball field all day long. And that's probably 40 weekends of the year. So I'm not lying to you when I tell you I don't have a guilty pleasure. I don't have time for one. But I love it. Three years we'll ask you the same question. Yeah. But I love it. But guilty pleasure, man, I want to. I love the mountains. I love an old fashioned. I love a campfire. And I couldn't do anything that I'm doing without my wife. She's my best friend in the whole world. So that's, I want, my guilty pleasure is just setting up for, for down the road with her. Yeah.

1:16:17 Cheers. That was a great way to end. Thanks for hanging out with us, man. We appreciate it. This was fun, guys. Thank you. Yeah. Good times. All right. We'll see you on the next one.