Sept. 14, 2025

When the Unexplained Moves In

Have you ever wondered what it would be like for your family home to become the centre of strange and unexplainable activity?

In this episode of Haunted History Chronicles, we open the door to a story that has gripped investigators and researchers for years. The Society for Psychical Research has closely followed the case, but tonight you will also hear directly from the female homeowner who has lived through these experiences. She offers a rare and candid account of her family’s journey—how it began with subtle, unexplained disturbances and escalated into phenomena that could not be ignored.

From mysterious wraps and taps, anomalous sounds, and apports, to objects vanishing or shifting before their eyes, the evidence gathered paints a haunting picture of a household under siege by forces beyond explanation. This deep analysis also revisits extraordinary events at the close of last year—events that culminated in a devastating house fire. What remains is a story of resilience, fear, and the search for answers when the paranormal moves in.

My Special Guests Include

Ynske Heeringa who is based in The Netherlands and joined the team of Paranormal Investigation UK in 2021 after having an interest in the paranormal and spirituality for many years, often looking at the paranormal with a healthy dose of scepticism. She is a member of the Dutch and English Society for Psychical Research (S.P.R).

Tony Hayes is the Case Manager and Lead Investigator for Paranormal Investigation UK operating a small team of psychical researchers. More recently he is now a member of the S.P.R’s Spontaneous Case Committee (S.C.C).

Nick Terrell is a member of ASSAP. He is also been the The Ghost Club co-ordinator for booking and leading club investigations for the past 8 years. He is a member of the S.P.R/ S.C.C member.

Ciaran Farrell has served as a Council member of the Society for Psychical Research, S.P.R and the S.P.R’s Spontaneous Cases committee, S.C.C for many years.

He has had many psychical experiences and adventures when he was a boy. This led him to formulate his own early theories about ghosts, poltergeists and telepathic veridical dreams of the dead gained through direct encounters with ghosts, spirits and poltergeists.

In this conversation, expect insights into:

A detailed analysis of the timeline of events — from the earliest subtle disturbances to the extraordinary incidents leading up to the devastating house fire.
First-hand accounts and investigator insights — hear directly from the homeowner and researchers about phenomena including anomalous sounds, moving objects, and apports.

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Have you ever wondered what it would be like if your family home became the center of strange and unexplainable phenomena?

How it would shape your daily life.

Who you could turn to for help.

The Voice you are about to hear is from a woman, who knows?

0:42

The answer to that.

Very question, you will hear from her at various points throughout this episode.

To get a sense of what her family has been experiencing for years.

In the beginning, it was very hard, obviously, the twins been little things are happening.

0:59

They weren't sleeping, they were sleeping in bed with me.

Or we were sleeping downstairs.

They didn't understand what was going on, and it's not kind of the conversation.

You want to sit there and have with young children as they've got older in a way as random as it sounds.

They've kind of grown up with it now.

1:16

So it only bothers them when he the house is playing up bad.

I mean, if their TV switched over their lights, start flickering they might hear a bang.

My boy, he gets he would be wearing his headphones of a night in beds and he'll get happy on his headphones.

1:33

He knows now it's a house, so it doesn't bother him as much.

Now as we would that back in the day, or it's still something that we have up.

We've so obviously, when the house does get bad, we do come give her as a family and we do stay together as a family like, oh, I wouldn't Even dream of trying to put my kids in their own rooms.

1:52

When my house is kicking off, we will all sleep together.

I mean, even my oldest daughter, who she moved out a few years ago, she would come over, but if no one's in the house, she won't stay in the house by herself.

I've had, people my children's friends come over, who they've come over, experienced things and won't even come back.

2:11

And in the beginning when things got really bad and it did get really bad at one time.

I mean, well, we as a family, we slipped in my living room for five months, because at the time, we couldn't come up stairs, every time we went upstairs, we have things phone us objects with the banging voices, you know, me.

2:31

So we actually slick for five months in my living room, people say to me now, wild, why did you stay?

Obviously at the time, my mom, my mom lives quite 150 miles away and at the time, I only had to see a car and obviously there was seven of us living here.

2:47

So, it wasn't that easy for us to It just get up and leave, obviously being a large family as well.

It's not that easy.

People aren't going to put you up because there were so many of us.

So, we did just literally put up with it, but we did sleep in the living room, light.

I said for five months, I mean my twins were absolutely terrified that.

3:07

When it very first started they work quite young.

So obviously they weren't able to do their day-to-day stuff in the house because the honestly, most of the time they spent glue to me, and even now, they're 12.

Now even now on days, when the house is playing up, quite the twins will come and sleep in my bed, they won't sleep in their own bedrooms and obviously he's been going off almost eight years.

3:29

So it's, it's just affected us.

I mean things like I literally play up constantly.

The internet will go on and off so the kids can't go on their computers.

You'll see it down to watch your favorite TV show or a film.

And a TV will keep switching off for the channel.

3:46

Will go over all the volume will go up to 100.

It gets to the point in the end where we just have to switch a TVs off and we can't even do that.

So, yeah, it's been very, very disruptive.

Very I think one of the worst things that I've experienced in this house is I was in bed with my two twins, and my daughter was in her bedroom with her partner.

4:08

And at the time, we had them really heavy duty thick crushed velvet beds with the big headboards and the big foot bases.

And all of a sudden we've heard Bang Bang Bang on what sounded like a wall in the hallway.

My bed literally started shaking.

4:25

Next thing I know my daughter was fighting with her.

Boyfriend heard they'd been shaking and obviously that was it.

We was at and then beds and down stairs quicker than anything and sort of see something I like to forget.

I've seen my fridge free, so I didn't American fridge, freezer my kitchen.

4:40

I've seen that vibrate shaking their move, my kitchen's table.

There's just so many things Michelle that I would never fought was possible.

And to now, Tonight, I take you inside a case that his left more questions than answers.

4:57

A home played by years of unexplained activity culminating in a devastating fire.

Joining me are some of those who answered the call, the investigators and Witnesses, who have followed this case to the present day.

5:14

What did they uncover?

What Still Remains unknown?

And most chillingly, what would you do if you were living through something like this?

Stay tuned as we explore the mystery, the fear and the unanswered questions.

5:31

Right here on haunted history, Chronicles.

5:52

Thank you all for joining me to chat about this case.

It might be worth a starting the episode by just going around each of you individually so that we can find a bit more about yourselves.

And of course, how you became involved in this case so that we can then obviously go into a deep dive of the investigation and your involvement, some of the evidence that you have.

6:17

And Some of your own personal reflections.

Jenske.

If we come to you first, you're obviously based in the Netherlands and are a member of the Dutch Society for psychical research.

Do you like to share a little bit more about your background and your involvement with this case?

6:36

Well, thank you Michelle, for asking me and having me on the podcast.

Thank you.

Well, I'm in school.

I listen, the Netherlands, and I work with Tony Hayes with a paranormal investigation.

UK, I started as a consultant at the paranormal investigation, UK some years ago and have been involved in a couple of cases, in my daytime job in the Netherlands.

7:03

I work with several Microsoft Office programs and one of her favorite programs is Excel.

An Excel.

It is possible to extract.

All kinds of comparisons and make them visible to graphics.

This current case was quite complex, the Excel sheets grew, exponential, as we saw fit and has been kept up to date.

7:28

As soon as we got fourth in this case.

Um, later we've even added it some more spreadsheets separately as we didn't want to mix with this location and other locations.

That the family would mention And coming to you next career.

7:47

And you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, maybe how you became involved with the society for psychical research.

Well, I don't know where to say.

It started out from almost for the Year Dot from me.

When I had variety of experiences.

8:04

And I became interested in what was happening to me.

I mean, obviously there was a mixture of fear and curiosity and also a complete lack of understanding about why some of these things were happening to me rather than other people around me.

I Spent a long time bunking off school for various different reasons and then ending up in haunted buildings.

8:28

And there, I think, so, played around with an experimented, with ghosts Spirits.

I got far more than I bargained.

For, in the sense that I thought, when I left that haunted playground, that haunted, playground would leave me in the sense that Um, I wouldn't be followed home by things while I was wrong. so I had to deal with various things as did, you know, my family when I was very young, but I did come into contact with A lot of spiritualists and some of the big mediums of the day, some really big names.

9:04

So that gave me an early start in the sort of whole area of psychical investigation and obviously paranormal investigation.

I started then to try to work out how I could figure out the rules by which this these ghosts Spirits operated.

9:26

And I started to build my own kind of equipment, but some pieces primitive, EMF meters, and so on, and so forth.

Things like that.

And experimented with cold spots and cold spots has been my sort of my thing.

9:43

Why is it that people experience these particulars Sensations in a particular place Because number of people will do that, they will have shared the similar sort of perception about that individual place and therefore it isn't something about the people.

10:00

It's the place that's important because that's the common factor.

So I started to experiment with bits and pieces there about that and try to connect with whatever whoever, or whatever was in that space or place.

And through that started to learn to become what sort of described as a Barefoot psychic, breaking all rules for a new not, what the rules were other than the various mediums.

10:28

And spirituals are being contact with sort of say no, you don't do this.

This is very silly.

This is very dangerous.

You're not qualified to go and have contact with these sorts of spirits.

If you've got to go through an extensive training to be able to do any of these things.

10:45

And once you've been through the training, you will know and understand what a silly boy.

You are so I didn't take any notice of it until I got myself in trouble.

But one of the things that this gave me an appetite for was science.

How do you explain this?

These sort of phenomena, what are the rules?

11:04

And can you work out things in advance know what's going to happen?

How can you predict what will occur?

That's what really got me and that's why I became interested in science, and that's why I studied science.

So I get how slightly unusual route through the education system and I get a joint honours degree in chemistry and physics.

11:27

And I go on to do some research and become involved in the another department, Department of philosophy of science, become an honorary student there, and so on, so forth, become interested in philosophy.

Because the one thing that occurred to me was it wasn't just about becoming a good scientist to understand the world being a good detective in how to become a good scientist because all good scientists must be Detectives.

11:55

It was quite a question of something more fundamental what lies behind the science who are the people that become the good scientists?

What makes a good scientist.

It's an attitude of Mind, rather than anything else or can be.

Obviously you need a lot of specific knowledge and, you know, you've got to learn that.

12:15

But, you know, in terms of the principles of the operation of the scientific method, that's relatively simple and straightforward in the sense, the dislike good, detective work. so, When I was still a boy, I went on a holiday with my family and members of another family to a Seaside town.

12:36

And there we encountered a number of ghosts socialists.

Say poltergeists.

These entities or whatever you want to call them, followed my family and me back to London a home in London.

And then me.

12:52

And when I went on from there to my boarding school, At the boarding school they were already were aware that the school itself was haunted and my presence together, with the ghosts, Poltergeist, whatever that I brought with me, set off a chain reaction.

13:10

There was a number of initiatives where the school tried to quell, what they considered to be a growing unrest amongst the boys and the staff about the Paranormal Activity that was occurring after trying to stamp down on it.

13:29

By various methods, you know, discipline and drugging us and all the rest of it.

Then they decided to take a different Tack and explore.

The problem is, what problem was, which was wasn't me.

It was these particular things.

13:44

So they got in contact with all psychic or research organizations of the day.

And that really did wet my appetite for getting involved with these things because I had no choice in order to be able to figure out what was happening to me.

I had to know and understand what was going on.

14:01

So I left the boarding school, went home and out to school.

And then I went back to the south coast and was fostered.

And, you know, the activity continued to follow me, So I then at the same situation, I had to try and live with it.

14:17

And during these times, I went through the Deliverance Ministry number of times, a various exorcisms were carried out which did not work for different reasons.

So, I returned to London to attend University.

And again, the phenomenal was following me after solving a particular problem at the hall of residence, which was related to cold spots and various dreams apparitions, and so on, some of the students were having I investigated this with the help of the Deputy hall manager.

14:50

And this related to, particularly nasty, cold spot between that all of residence and a student house, a double murder had taken place as a followed by Suicide.

The hall manager.

Deputy hall manager involved the police and we had a meeting three of us. police detective who didn't investigate the case, and he said to me, look, If you're really serious about doing this Karen then you want to become a private investigator because that will give you an opportunity to do this without appearing to be too weird or whatever because you can hang around places and this and that and the other.

15:26

So I had a meeting with him and that's exactly what I did when I got a bit of money to go that I trained as a private investigator.

Don't tend to mention this because a lot of the cases that you're required to investigate the matrimonial ones.

And I'm not really interested about who's having a relationship with whom that's private business.

15:45

But what I did do is I did get, you know, the various bits and pieces together for that and they got me in shorts and so on.

So it was back after I had the time when I was going through University and afterwards, I became involved with some of the other sidekick or research organizations.

16:03

So started attending meetings of the Society of research I dipped in and out of that of the sp-r and various other organ.

So over the years following my own sort of lonely path but I took a decision to get involved.

16:19

Seriously involved with the SP PR over a decade ago, which I did and I was elected onto the council.

So that's how I became involved with the sprit.

It was a sort of a long Association followed by the intense period of research largely at the British Library, which prepared me to become a council member of the society for psychic or research.

16:46

So do you want to maybe just elaborate on your specific role within the SBI?

You know, thinking about the spontaneous case committee?

What that helps to contribute to the field of psychical Research In Your Role within it?

17:03

I'm currently the secretary of the spontaneous cases committee and I've been so for all about nine months now, I was a Norman.

Remember of the spontaneous cases committee going back a number of years.

The SEC as it's known as changed and has broadened out and we have conducted various investigations and we have a different way of doing these things.

17:31

All under the late to ship of Dr. Crane kid who is very open and broad-minded psychiatrist.

And under his leadership, the committee has grown and become more focused on investigations and taking up cases.

17:49

And it was this that really attracted me to the SEC because I always wanted to get involved with this because it was something that I was doing as a lonesome cowboy in the sense of being an individual practitioner in terms of being Paranormal Investigator.

18:07

So always wanted to work with an organization.

I wanted to work with groups because of the resource partly because of the resources involved and I found out working on my own that What you needed really?

For any sort of complex case and many cases are complex is a Ministry of all talents which is why I think Society is should have just as much of a place around the table as paranormal investigators and mediums.

18:33

I am also the data Protection Officer for The Spar so that's really an administrative role.

Um which obviously the name implies his relation related to data and internal organization of the spr as one further thing that I do for the spr and that is I've been helping to organize discussion forums which are for members only.

18:59

But it's the idea here is that we take a topic to discuss one evening for about one and a half hours, which enables members to share their thoughts and experiences and be able to collaborate together to have a conversation about that particular topic.

19:18

I very much enjoy doing that.

Well, it can be a bit nerve-racking at times because, you know, you have to think and speak on the hoof to a large extent.

But there again everyone else does it within the meeting and we do our best to create a safe and secure space for people to be able to talk and be able to share their experience as Nick coming to you at this point.

19:40

You are obviously someone who has a keen interest in the Paranormal.

Someone who's a member of our sap.

And a member of the society for psychical research, as well as a member of the spontaneous case committee.

Do you want to just tell us a little bit about your background and, of course, again your involvement and interest in this case.

20:02

I've been a member of the ghost club for probably 10, or 12 years and was aware of the Society of cycle research.

And some of the members from the ghost Club were also members of the Society of cycle research as well.

And I was interested about what they did.

20:17

What there was different to the ghost club and and talking to our one of the technical officers Chapel James Tachi, you tell me about some of the work and then he mentioned about the special cases committee about the fact that they would have cases come into into them.

20:33

And then they would effectively check them over and I was really intrigued by that.

And I thought, oh, that's exactly what I would like to be doing.

I do organize investigations, with the ghost club, which is fine and my own group, but this was Something I thought this is sounds like the real deal.

20:52

This is the thing that people who want to do investigations really want to be involved with.

And I asked James said, oh how do I go about joining and he said he was on the committee there and and, He basically, I think he said, you know, now you're interested and you've been doing investigations, you're in but as it happens, I wasn't because that particularly incumbent all left pretty much.

21:19

And so, I had to join the society.

And, and then apply and had to be voted on, which is what happens with everybody, who wants to join the SEC.

So that's what I did basically, but it took about a year and a half before I got to that position, really.

21:36

So, and even then, of course, it was not guaranteed.

But that's that's how it came about.

It was, it was it was something I realized that I really wanted to be involved in and and I'm glad to say it's exactly comes fruition there's a lot of very interesting cases that we come through and obviously the case we're talking about tonight is obviously very big and very key at the moment. and our final guest as a Roundup at the investigators who are coming to chat about this particular case for this episode, we have, of course have Tony Haze hean, early mentioned Tony is of course, someone who is going to be very familiar to people who listen to the podcast regularly, he has been involved in previous episodes where we've discussed audio phenomena, and electric voice phenomena as well as near-death experiences out of body experiences and of course past lives and more.

22:36

Recently we have the chance to chat about the Enfield Poltergeist case, It's an episode that we may be able to touch on in today's chat.

Tony given how this particular case that we're going to be discussing tonight managed to also become part of that discussion with regards to Enfield and what happened behind the scenes that of course nobody's been privy to before Just two briefly introduced Tony and his background Tony is of course part of the team or paranormal investigation, UK alongside jenske.

23:11

He is also a member of the society for psychical research and a member of the spontaneous cases committee.

And of course, has been a lead investigator. during this case, So Tony do you want to just help set the scene and maybe share some of the types of the Paranormal phenomena that has been reported by the family experienced by the family, may be described some of the the more significant incidents there. yes, by all means and These really we're about to split the case into two areas because the cases only five and a half years old when it came onto my desktop.

23:52

So we split into two on the cervical nature where the phone reporting.

Yeah, unusual phenomena, for example, over 500 coins reported in the property seeing shadows here, invasive objects, being thrown about that type of phenomena.

24:12

The difficulty we had that point is that we had very little data, the next section of around under 1660 videos at the phone represented.

The Crux of the case started in the old 2022.

Where we now monitoring on a daily basis, keeping careful, back, cars and data where we're able to be tomorrow, a lot more accurate and explicit into what the family have been reported.

24:39

And they've been subjected to about everything, including the kitchen sink from multiple wrapping Shadows, disembodied voices, mimicking voices, the reports generally had dried up of the coins.

We had a bird about 50 coins within our time period, as well as other unusual phenomena, such as electrical items, cattle starting up on their own spontaneously together with the washing machine and a tumble dryer, and huge amounts of TV Behavior, changing channels, chaining on and off multiple channels switching, and as well as the strength phenomena of writing into the search bar of this smart TV hobby. 100 plus events of that where we were able, to completely disclose electrical fault, rather than you can only be fared are genuine.

25:39

Activity.

So, Quite strange one.

So would you kind of categorize, what's been experienced, then as something that happens frequently, you know, something that is quite large in scale in terms of the intensity, in the frequency of of the types.

25:59

The types of phenomena that you've just you've just shared with the listeners.

Yeah, the do it.

Two Stand Out events.

Occurred both for radically different historical side with the coin Applause.

No question.

If we take in account, the ones that we've had since our time with a property investigating it with poppy talking, 550 to 600, Koreans have been ported the property. that's how to dry door and then if we place by this unusual, Phenomenal, with the TV search engine right into together.

26:35

With unusual behavior, the TV.

That's all again over 600 to 700 events.

Occur, really?

Now any sort of spontaneous remote control, battery failure, that type of thing. days with the ones with the biggest numbers, Book mixed in that we had the other phenomena such as the mimicking of householders which weren't even pressed it, they have at the time, heavy duty movement of items bottles flying off shelf of the wall together off window frames that type of thing.

27:13

Stay with a probably, the more, the heaviest item.

That actually well, we could actually say if you've got a object waiting, four and a half kilos in weight.

So suddenly moves 20 feet and fathers onto the floor.

27:29

That isn't, yeah.

An open window or a draft is a, you know, something else in something entirely and the main evidence we've got to support.

This is the addition of CCTV camera that we put into the property in June of 2020.

27:45

I was just going to ask in terms of, you know, what kind of dated that you've been, you've been accumulating as part of that, you know, how you've been going about recording and, and accumulating, that evidence, as part of, and this investigation, in terms of the Paranormal Activity, you just alluded to office, leave that the CCTV.

28:08

Do you want to just talk us through the range in the scale in terms of what you've been bringing in and how you've been collecting this data?

yeah, the if we look at our time, each event, that gets reported as a separate incident and investigated separately.

28:29

So, up to around about September of 2024, we dealt with around 1400, separate events.

Now, we should a number, it's very difficult to make any any sense out of that.

So, what we're able to do quite quickly to split that down into how many events with associated with, for example, the TV, if it's a kind of Port, it was a movement of an object.

28:54

If it's a disembodied voice, I was a member of advice.

Were able to establish numbers jenske herringa.

We are Dutch colleague.

She was able to get the basic data, which I provided and then provided those in return and Excel spreadsheet with Graphics.

29:13

So we're able to stop police for example, in November of 2023, we had roundabout in the womb around 96, supper events.

Here in the December.

There was just under 60 events and so on and so forth as we worked through the month.

29:33

So, we looked at November 2023, To the September of 2024, you see almost like a way pattern of almost like looking at a way up and down up and down as it moves.

Through each of the months with able to take it a little bit of a stage further where we're able to say during the weeks which for busiest and what we actually saw the first 12 months.

30:00

For example, is if you touch somebody who's always the busiest night that was a big cushion doll that we never had a Sunday.

They didn't something didn't hurt, she happened.

So what you saw on a Sunday this is just a number.

He had his, you know don't take it more anymore.

30:17

So not so say these 100 events occurred on the Sunday night.

On the Monday, it would go down to about 6:30.

On the Tuesday, who fall down to about forty.

On the Wednesday, he started to pick up but to 60, so she 70 Friday 9t.

30:38

Saturday 100 back again under 20 on a Sunday and then it would continue that way for well over a year.

Then what happened?

It began to farm away pattern Monday.

Where we say 50 Tuesday was 40 when she was 60 when Steve was with lower than that.

31:01

So, we told me to uptown uptown uptown Uptown Sunday, the big event was Sunday.

So he was very difficult to.

Follow exactly.

It's patterned but patterns certainly did emerge.

31:18

We know what was the busiest days of the weeks, where?

What months were gonna be busy?

Yes, and trying to make sense, a, why these occurred at these given time.

So, What the begun to do then is every day, the family had to give us two numbers.

31:38

And okay, I can accept this is going to be subjected number, but it's better than nothing.

So the female householder would say today.

The house feels a number 0, would be absolutely awful to 10 where the house feels really nice.

31:56

So she would give a number for that.

She would also give a number as how she and the male householder felt that day to see if there is comparison to be made between the busiest days of the week to how they were feeling like And after about 40 months, were able to stop it.

32:14

It's regard to the male occupier, if he returned from homeless, it's a clock at night at some point in a bad mood.

Once in the certainly did happen whereas phenomena began to get me pulled and increase it definitely levels depended on a number.

32:32

So the horse coloration between The how the household is felt to what the phenomena was being experienced, which does suggest as a hypothesis, some form of PK psychokinesis involvement between the human agent element of the compared to what the phenomena was being experienced at given time.

32:54

And a moment ago you and leaded to one of the team members who's been involved in this case.

Do you want to just share, who else has been involved in terms of their own input in the involvement of this investigation?

33:11

In this case, with the family?

The case itself is came to me in the 30th of October 2022 I realized within two to three weeks, this is significant and I I'm too 26 miles away from the property.

33:27

I knew because of dealt with two of the high and Poltergeist cases before wanting just to in.

Cheshire another one sheep or an endorsed it, these can be almost 365 days of the week and you need ongoing support because I certainly got the answers.

33:45

So I'm in an SBR member.

And for many years, I have a good working relationship with John faizer.

It's a member the spontaneous case committee are through himself wrote the book Poltergeist.

And I shared my findings within three weeks with John.

34:04

What we then put together was what we call a joint working arrangement.

Paranormal investigation, UK, which the team.

I belong to one of the day-to-day part of the investigation with oversight, from the spread initially, John fazia, Kevin Farrell against pontes Case committee members other councilman.

34:24

Yes.

PR got to go and kids psychology and Toby Colvin Hardy specialist within The Spar passing of, is another sec member that joined us and like nickel and the SPF.

34:39

So what was able to pull on his multiple different people?

For my side.

Amanda Griffiths, she's my colleague of many years old, the decade.

Andy, jukebox her again.

He is more than the technical side.

He looks up to see cameras and other equipment and jenske involved with the date to analysis became into his own really and his helpful.

35:05

So in a way you probably talking about a dozen people opening ball certainly within three to four months at the case, comment Significant.

We've also tucked into other resources and actually the Caroline a kanja marketing Gibson from Somerset.

35:23

They were asset members to her sisters with the investigation and the height of this, we had to ensure complete and amenity for the family.

You know, this is a lie in case, we couldn't allow it to creep into the property domain because, you know, we're dealing with a quite a work.

35:42

In reality with the working class, family, they got young children, all the drama comes to, if he got into the public domain, we got to take an account out and we were able to actually adapt to that without any significant problem.

35:58

We know it really had any problems.

So and you kind of mentioned their, there's a range of people who have been involved in the case from very different backgrounds and coming with various different text Pete's, what kind of contributions have they been able to make?

36:15

That in terms of the knowledge that they've brought to the table with with what they can offer and what support they've offered along the way.

If we do, we'll call this case a poltergeist.

I think it's focuses people into the phenomena, Virginia case because we don't know what a poltergeist is.

36:39

But when you didn't even certain types of phenomena, what you were looking at is because these cases only come around every decade or so.

And what, I'll probably should have mentioned earlier, when we were talking about the people been involved with the case, is the assistance would give in to us by Darren Richard.

36:58

The sales Poltergeist onto Darren very early on asking for advice from him, likewise to keep lender from the Seattle Washington State.

Part of the guy, he was played a pivotal role one for key to the case with the probably never come to his in the first flight.

37:18

So we what we're looking for is The research side of what have we got to compare to look for further.

Assisted?

What can we do?

Which hasn't been done in previous cases so very early on, we decided that we would run this case on a 3605 day at the week basis and really left no stone unturned because What we didn't realize in the November 2022.

37:48

The two years on we would still be investigated.

We don't know.

You know, people up to say it's six to 12 weeks.

Maybe six months.

Maybe.

Yeah.

On the outside.

He didn't know at that point that it was going to be lasting for this period of time.

38:04

I produce what we call the diary, this is where I summarize the activities occur in and what I'm looking for from my colleagues is any further experiment, tests, measurements advice that can be given that can maybe broaden our understanding of what's occurring drain caddy chairman of this spontaneous case committee, the SBI He's a psychologist as the Catrice so we said, look when the case when each event gets you can't reported to yeah ask two questions.

38:40

How does the person feel how does a house feel?

If he want to go in Kate being in that into play about year ago, we probably wouldn't have to be better.

Understanding we have about the human element of the of the phenomena that will begin to experience.

39:00

I think it's a really good example of how just that small involvement just with raising that possibility to question how that began to enable you to see some of that.

Like he said, the the human element and making that connection with some of the experiences alongside certain individuals within the home. yeah, because you, if you look at things like the Every Poltergeist are certain haunting phenomena seems to run alongside it and they've been various different theories been thrown around from the days of Enfield where they said, it's all the associated to a female reaching puberty that's turned out to be nothing more than a methodology.

39:41

And when we look at the wraps aspect of the phenomena, that's one of my specialties.

I have an hypothesis for this and I can run that by somebody like that to buy Colvin who's dealt with the Enfield rapping together with a couple decades.

39:56

We've got to compare like for light to see it.

There is a comparison between the case it to me dealing with the frequences that involved with this unusual phenomena, which have one with terms is is dropping.

Care and has a much more broader and wider understanding on The Haunting phenomena, then I have.

40:19

So when it is we discuss a particular aspect these multi-roll people can bring other aspects into it.

A lot of it is, you know, any of the day you don't discover anything without a idea or suggestion.

40:35

That's where they start.

And I think certainly with this case, I think we've got closer than ever before to real good understanding of what this phenomena is and how it operates and just how spontaneous and how intelligent it appears to be.

40:52

So how has the family then been coping with these experiences you know?

And and what measures has been taken to really support them during the investigation?

Yeah, I think that's quite a crucial part of it because of our victims, it's involved in his young family.

41:10

You know, it the high when it first started in 20 and 17 There were five children in the living in the house that when we got involved with three, the older two daughter's moved out.

And, you know, you can't help up empathy to our to the family.

41:29

And I was incredibly sympathetic to how they've been dealt with before the previous, five and a half years.

I'm not criticizing to know the panel groups of gone into the property.

He did probably did it the wrong way.

But investigating a property for four hours.

41:47

What I call poking about our ambulance shaking.

Doesn't help the family, what they're after is why did it start?

Why?

And can it can we actually stop it?

A lot gave false promises saying, yeah, you've been gazing.

42:05

We will do some prayer.

Slash some holy water.

Set off some say and everything will be fine.

It never was, we navigate in expectation and never gave her promise that we were able to stop it because how can you start something?

42:22

You don't know what it is.

It's impossible.

So the Family itself then we no longer giving false promise is and what we were able to do is be on a phone when things got really bad and that is short things.

42:38

Got bad.

So the odds, someone at the end of the, the phone, Previously he would leave messages from call text messages, went on answered that shouldn't happen.

A family can go into crisis.

So I think speaking to the family because I was listening to learn from every case is What can we do?

42:59

differently next time and there isn't many lessons far as to learn because we were able to be there for the family to Sometimes, also, I can be 260 miles away is a listening gear offer some comfort.

But on the latter stage is we did have somebody that led legislate 10 miles away.

43:19

So if there was an emergency, where the wanted that additional reassure, we could have sent someone in there.

Immediately just stay with them to and just help and through the bad period.

And that is shared when this of can't call it, it's not a pleasant experience, Michelle.

43:37

My daughter and a few of her friends have done a science in my living room.

Me and the other children were asleep at called past three in the morning.

All my electrics in the house, went off my smoke alarms went off of my oldest daughter, came and woke us all up, we fixed it.

43:53

But she didn't sign anything what happened.

And then two weeks to that day, I was at work.

My oldest two were at work and my partner was home with my twins and I was on the phone screen and I heard, what can I be described?

44:09

As a really loud, he seemed And obviously then all of a sudden there were three massive fangs on the front door and he was like, obviously I've got going on so we went I'll ring you back but didn't hear from him and I was trying to ring him and he wouldn't answer and I was getting text messages saying that there's something really wrong with the house, is something wrong with the house.

44:33

Anyway, a little while would pass, and he actually found me and begged me to leave work and I'd come home.

And as I've come home, he's come running out the front door saying, look at this video.

Look at this video.

When I watched it, what happened DC, he was in the bedroom with the twins and there was obviously because he was hearing noises and he said, that was a safest place, he felt in the house.

44:55

So the Twins were a slate, but it was in the bedroom and each recorded the whole way.

And there's a shadow that goes from my bedroom door, straight across to the bathroom door and the bathroom door.

Slammed Officially when he shared in his video, he can believe it.

45:10

And he was a, how anything Um, obviously after that it was things started off.

Well, we could be honest, we kind of forgot about that.

After a little while, obviously little things were going on.

But that, that was the very first thing that happened.

45:27

Yeah, I mean after that night, we didn't really notice much at first, but then things looking back.

Now, obviously things were starting to happen slow.

Like, we was getting random noises things disappearing.

Like what?

45:43

Obviously one time my partner was fixing something in the kitchen.

Please drill on the side, it's got to get something gone back to the kitchen and the drill wasn't there.

So me and him we both searched the house top to bottom after searching the house, going back down in the kitchen.

And it's on the side again and things were just disappearing and then appearing days like you're in rands and place.

46:05

He's We started getting a lot of scratching on the walls and a lot of knocking.

And the thing with the knocking is we'd always get the nox in threes, which are found quite strange at the time, but obviously not being able to pinpoint where they are and that time because we've never put two and two together.

46:23

Obviously, all that is.

No, rational explanation for things disappearing.

You left side in their scratching head thinking has that really happened?

And you can't question yourself.

Just to bring Kirin in at this point.

So do you want to describe your specific involvement in the case that we're going to be talking about tonight?

46:43

You know, thinking about maybe what some of your main responsibilities and can you know, contributions have been thus far?

My involvement with this particular case goes back quite a long way.

I'd heard it mentioned within the SEC and what had occurred was that the female homeowner had been in contact with various people with different organizations, including The Spar And then she went to Paranormal investigations UK, which is a group that is run by Tony Hayes.

47:20

Tony and I were getting on, Well, we'd become friends and we were sort of working unofficially together, swapping experiences and you know, ideas and just about cases This particular case was with Tony and the lady concerned signed up with him and she did so on the basis of representing her family in the Endeavor, to get to the bottom of what was going on, and on the Paranormal experience is.

47:48

And there are various activity that she and her household were experiencing So, the SEC became involved with this case.

At Tony's suggestion to provide backup and support to him, and his organization because it was a large and complex case, which his organization could not deal with on their own alone.

48:11

And consequently, I was one of the people that became involved with the case through both the SEC and Pi UK.

So how would you say then that you've been able to support the family experience in these?

48:27

These phenomena, you know, where would you say your involvement has been in terms of that supportive role?

Essentially it's been a consultant.

So you roll, Really advising Tony and his team and liaising with the SEC and with Graham.

48:47

About events.

In the case, there's a small group of SEC members who are more involved with the case.

And then the rest of the SEC and these people receive various updates and comments about the case and a diary, which only puts together, which is a diary of the conversation that he has with the principal homeowner Homemaker involved, and some also of other family members, including some of the children on occasion. my role in that is as I said, largely consultative but I have been with a colleague from another organization because we carried out the first on-site investigation, That The Spar of been involved in for many years, we did that a couple of years ago in 2023.

49:50

That was an interesting experience because what I like doing is I like meeting people and I like actually talking to people about their experiences and working with them to help them sort of explore and explain the experiences that they've had.

50:06

A lot of the time in isn't easy to capture hard, physical evidence of the Paranormal.

That could be because many of the phenomena are mental phenomena in sense that they occur in the mind, as a result of telepathic, interactions between ghosts and spirits, and people particularly sensitive people.

50:28

So as a sensitive myself, I know and understand what can happen and it's good to be able to talk to people and for people to talk to me on the basis that they know that I've been through some of what they're going through.

So when you know, I'm able to give sort of various Commons advice and information, it's coming from somebody who's really been there, not from somebody who studied books and just kind of thinking about what you were just saying there as well.

50:57

Would you say that?

There are any particular strategies or you know, interventions that the The Wider Esprit being able to help Implement to not only assist the family but also to assist Tony.

51:13

In regards to this very large complex case.

Yes, one of the things that often occurs is that people focus in on the physical side partly because when investigation takes place, the people concern to placed under a great deal of scrutiny, you know, in terms of what happened, where it happened, how it happened in inducing, it could be this.

51:41

Do you think it could be that what other explanations are there?

The espr is a scientific and secular organization which holds no corporate view about the existence or reality of paranormal phenomena.

51:57

So, the views of everyone concerned are largely their own personal views.

So we have to work around this thing of a, no corporate opinion.

But we are able to provide information and advice about phenomena.

Now I was oh so was with Tony and another member of his team Amanda when the family were away and we were able to stay in the house for an extended period of time about six days.

52:27

Now, one of the things that I found particularly interesting about this case was that there would be sort of protocol called spots or energy spots.

Places where?

People would feel uncomfortable, they would feel cool, get pins, needles, perhaps upset, stomach spinning headache, and so on a series of classic series of what I would describe as cold spot symptoms. and there would be a number of these, they're very large number of these Cold spots or energy spots within the house and that was to my mind, very surprising.

53:07

Now, some of these sort of energy spots can be the result of several things One is the most obvious thing about this is it could be almost like an invisible person.

Now, imagine if you will being in a cube in the coffee shop or supermarket, you might be aware that someone else has come up and has joined the queue behind you.

53:33

But you don't know how they got the.

You think that oh, well does not matter.

I didn't really hear wasn't really paying attention but now I'm aware of their presents.

So sometimes you can tell well that person is male or female but boy or a girl whatever.

53:49

It is a similar sort of impression that you get from some of these these cold spots.

And one of the things that can happen is the exactly that you get the impression of a man or a woman boy, or a girl, and there can be images that go through your mind as a result of this.

54:08

And also these symptoms as well.

So that to me says that this is something about the place and something might have happened.

Something which may have sort of etched some sort of Mark in the psychical ether, which I and other people that were sensitive to can pick up and even people who are not particularly sensitive, can recognize because there's something peculiar going old.

54:33

Why did they feel uncomfortable in that particular spot that particular place?

Now having said this, that that Mark on the psyche could be made by living person or somebody who is deceased Now, there's the question.

54:50

Now, my particular angle on this particular case is there's a haunting sight to it and there's a poltergeist side to it.

So I Now understand more about the haunting side.

We also the Poltergeist side because I've actually been through that.

55:07

I've been the center of poltergeist cases because I was, you know, essentially when I was young Poltergeist, boy, so it was the agent of a poltergeist, and so, But it wasn't as easy as that was simple.

As that back then and I don't think it is in this case at all because there are a number of people who could be the agent involved because you have people who do have a sensitivity within the family and you all, so have people who have experienced hunting phenomena Now, when we were there myself, don't Tony and our friend and colleague Amanda, we all had our own experience is on one level.

55:48

It's difficult to deny that a place is haunted.

If you have a number of different experiences in that house and you then ask yourself.

Would I like to live there?

Would I like to experience that on an ongoing basis?

Would I like to you know have to live with my family in the place like that.

56:08

I have to look after my children and replace like that and the only answer you can come to his know.

I wouldn.

Which is really not surprising because that's why the family wanted help with this.

So, It's to do several things.

56:25

Firstly to see what there was on The Haunting side. secondly to see what there was on the Poltergeist side and to find out if there is a relationship between two And also like all paranormal, investigators, must do it must have a look at.

56:41

Some of the other factors that could be involved.

For example, PK cycle, kinesis, Could this be something to do with the people more than the place?

And it could therefore, could it be about the sort of Supernatural powers or unusual powers of the human mind rather than ghosts and spirits?

57:04

Again, having been through a whole lot of this subject for haunting and Poltergeist phenomenon and so on it is perhaps easier for me with his insights, to be able to provide in more informed, insights to Tony and Graham, the SCC and Tonys team.

57:21

And that's really where I came in to this.

Um and there was, for example, a visit that was made by a couple of them members of the family to a cemetery that was a couple of boys and a couple of girls that when the boys said he knew how to contact spirit and he might have been successful about that because when they went back they went back home.

57:45

They carried out some informal saans and phenomena started occurring.

So they could be some kind of spirit.

Attachment could have been formed at that point or then these things might have existed there and the Seance kicked something off.

58:02

We didn't know what we tried to do is investigate this from a scientific perspective, using scientific methods.

Hence, that one of our colleague Inca has produced, a very detailed and Analysis of the different phenomenon that have occurred.

58:21

When they've occurred, who was in the house, when the particular incident took place and so on, in order that we can try and see patterns, Some patterns of emerged but also a more complex a pattern which is that phenomenon, not only in the main house, they all occur in the residence, is our family members who are no longer live in the main family home.

58:46

It's trying to draw together these particular types of phenomena, and also the dreams that some family members have had as well as the voices.

That they've heard the wrapping that has occurred and the apparitions that they have seen.

59:03

All of which add up to a very complex picture.

Now, there's been a certain amount of evidence in terms of The Haunting side.

But again because the Poltergeist said because it involves physical phenomena, you know, things being moved thrown and wrapping is often concentrated on because it's more disturbing to the family.

59:28

Then things that occur awed voices that you hear or odd things that you see, because you can try and put that out of your mind and forget about it.

It's not so easy to forget about something.

When you hear a great, big crash in the room next door or whatever, all the TV starts to misbehave.

59:49

And it's, you know, you want to watch a program or whatever and suddenly he doesn't do what you want or strange messages appear on it, that tends to be far more disturbing.

But one of the big features of this case is being coined reports coins coming out of apparently coming out from nowhere ending up.

1:00:07

Um, being thrown into nowhere in particular, trying to work out what's going on there and obviously how that would occur.

So, that's an analysis of the coins flight path if you can analyze it, which means of course, you've got to record it.

1:00:26

And therefore, its question of CCTV and other recording techniques trying to film it on your phone or whatever.

But filming on your phone is a bit difficult.

Because if you imagine this is spontaneous phenomenon, you don't know when it's going to occur.

1:00:42

So you're gonna have your phone next to you with the art started up and try and capture the event.

So, My background in physics as being very helpful in that sense because this is all to do with the mechanics of the trajectory of projectiles and so on so forth.

1:01:03

So that is one aspect, another one.

Now, another aspect of the whole thing So generally trying to make sense of this complex picture and some of it does seem to relate to the sum of the previous occupants of that particular house and that relates to some of the voices heard, some of the experiences that have been had and so on.

1:01:28

So when you put this all together, you end up with the house that you really wouldn't want to spend a night in, except we had the privilege of spending six nights there.

And I had my own experience, as I said as did Amanda and Tony.

So, we're trying to reconcile our human experiences on the one hand that we can't possibly ignore with how can you explain, or Define or prove what you did experience from a scientific perspective.

1:02:00

And just following on from what you were just saying there.

And because it was touching on something that, you know, I wanted to ask you and I, and I think he started a leading to it.

Just kind of made me going into a little bit further.

Some of the ways, your experience has just helped to deepen that understanding of the experience as reported in the case, and maybe the wider kind of involvement of the SBR.

1:02:24

To also be able to do that.

I mean, you mentioned your background in physics just a moment ago and being able to help the analysis of the coin.

Airports know, just maybe going into some of that a little bit further or anything else that you would what you would like to say in terms of just how you're involvement in the SBS involvement.

1:02:42

Has as I mentioned, just really helped to deepen the understanding of the experience that have been reported.

As a number of things we firstly, in terms of these energy spots, I mean when I went with a colleague, what two colleagues really?

I experienced these energy or cold spots and I knew then that there was a serious problem in the house as a result of those because there were so many of them that you, if you walked around that house.

1:03:12

Then you'd have to sort of walk through a number of them.

And if you settled in one of those particular places, it would not, you know, you would become very uncomfortable rather quickly. my one of my colleague's who was a complete skeptic about this was sitting on a bed in one of the bedrooms, which was the one that in which most of the phenomena was a lot of phenomena was since the centered, So she sat on on, you know, on the edge of the bed and I advised her not to do that because she would be subject to some of these symptoms.

1:03:49

She said oh what nonsense and a few minutes later as we were discussing the case and the phenomena she felt the real and couldn't continue with the conversation.

She then dived off into the adjacent room, which happened to be the bathroom and they're much.

1:04:09

The same thing happened again. so in that sense, when you meet a situation where Three Investigators go into a house, And you experience these sort of energy spot or cold spot phenomena and all Three Investigators are severely affected by them.

1:04:26

You have to ask yourself, what's going on.

Firstly, obviously, that's a place that you don't want to be, you know, you don't have to live there but the family have to accept no choice.

So it's a question of how you cope with that means.

So if it's relatively easy, in the sense that there's obvious point to a certain extent, these cold spots can be seen as like Sleeping Dogs.

1:04:47

If you go around the steeping, dog and it might watch you that it won't won't get up.

He won't he won't Park and it won't buy.

So that's your first line of defense in that sense.

You ignore it in it and ignore you hopefully but it's not always as simple as that. we conducted some EVP sessions which didn't turn up a great deal, but again the issue here is sometimes the way that you carry out these sessions may not be the best because it's difficult to separate the What might be a spirit Vice on the recording from other ordinary daily living activities in our in domestic home or indeed other aspects of the investigation taking place in a neighboring rooms or whatever.

1:05:42

So it's best to carry out these sessions in complete choir and so on, we did interview my colleague interviewed number of the family members and overturned statements from them.

1:05:58

In terms of my particular angle.

It was also in terms of seeing what I could.

What I could sense what I could bring to the table from that sort of perspective, and The family have had a number of other paranormal groups involved, all of whom either didn't really want to be involved in for very long because all they wanted to do was to see if they could quickly, grab some evidence of the Paranormal and then leave and make the best of it.

1:06:34

You know, online or whatever.

The point about this is both Tony and Pi UK and the SEC are in this for proper research purposes and we are there to support the family.

So that's what we were.

1:06:51

We were doing.

We were trying to help them understand what was happening to them and we were trying to do.

So partly asked our brief is to investigate from a scientific perspective but that doesn't mean to say we neglect The Human Side of it.

We don't because we're all very acutely aware that.

1:07:08

These are people going through experiences, some of which are quite horrific and nobody would want anyone else to go through themselves.

So, at that point, it's a question of, not only being sort of a scientist in a white coat.

It's a punt.

1:07:23

Question of being a human being and having been there, again, myself, it is, you know, a lot easier to be able to understand and empathize with people and be able to say, you know, maybe the way to deal with this, is sometimes to be able to try to think about it, not being paranormal, not because we don't believe people, but because if you start, you know, becoming alert to everything, you think everything is Paranormal and then you know, inevitably you think things are out to get you And that's a sort of like a, you know, a vicious cycle.

1:08:00

So the thing is to try and calm down as much as you can face your fear and then go and investigate what happened.

When something crashed down in the other room was that?

Because something slipped off a shelf that you didn't put it on the Shelf properly or could that have been the influence of the Poltergeist That means that we help people to cope and we help people to become their investigators in their own cases and through doing that.

1:08:30

People are able to gain a different perspective and what's happening to them and give them a degree of control over the young controllable.

So if you do find that something may have fallen off a shelf then you don't have to think it was the Poltergeist.

1:08:47

And that can be a very sort of quite reassuring and Powerful, psychological technique, which of course recognizes the possibility or probability in some cases that you are dealing with the Paranormal with out, actually either dismissing it or minimizing it.

1:09:03

And that's very important because at the end of the day party, you've got to work with people.

And partly that if people don't think they're being taken, seriously, they won't open up to you.

And you need that because you need to build that relationship with people and they need to be confident with you and you need to be confident with them.

1:09:23

And open and transparent.

So it's a question of sharing information and perspectives and you know working together on a case and seeing what will come out of it.

And you know true collaboration is really what I'm saying, is the key to this?

1:09:39

And I can help because I'm, as I said, I've been through it.

So I know just how hard it can be when something happens. 3:00 in the morning.

You start you, you know, something starts you awake as a big crash or whatever.

1:09:56

Oh, what was that You know, is it all starting off again?

Is this gun?

You know what's going to happen?

If I go into the other room where in the big crash was?

What am I going to find?

And so on, this is the sort of stress that nobody should have to live under.

1:10:12

But people do because they have to and that's where we can help.

So just to kind of sum some of the things that you've you've said so elegantly.

What's the importance of implementing?

Some of these certain strategies strategies then, in terms of the interventions that you are able to bring in the documentation and the rigor, the scientific rigor that you are able to bring What are outcomes of that?

1:10:37

What are the potential benefits for not only the family obviously but also the broader field of psychical research to come in with the type of a preach that you are advocating for here. well, it's firstly that by working with people, you get more from them and they get more from you, it's a collaboration and consequently you generate more data about the case as a great depth of understanding on both sides of what the case is and therefore that contributes itself to research because then those records are there, not only the records, but they were discussions about the case, which are informative from All Points of View with, you know, with the family with PR UK, and with the SCC, And then sometimes those are a case of a lady who came came through to the spr and I picked up her particular case she had involvement with a poltergeist.

1:11:41

And I helped her to understand what was happening to her and to face the past and so on, and she then wanted to become an investigator herself and she was on Uncanny and she's now, you know, given talks about her experience and so on.

1:12:00

I think that's the best possible outcome because it takes someone from being a victim of circumstances, a victim of the Paranormal to being someone.

That is an Enquirer and investigator and an explorer to make the best of the awful experiences that have come their way.

1:12:17

And, you know, to certain extent, this family is going down the same sort of a root there inquiring and they're exploring.

And that means, of course, you might be exploring the Dark Continent, but you know, that there are well there who will help you to do that, and you can find your own answers, and then put your own past, and you only experience is back into Perspective, A New Perspective that you have found with help from others and I think that is valuable for research because of our outcome.

1:12:50

And because of the data that is generated, along the way and the discussions that occur along the way and it's also a good outcome for the people involved rather than sort of shutting the whole thing off and trying to bundle it into a hurt locker somewhere and never talking about it again, which would be the worst outcome in my opinion. and just kind of go right back to the beginning because of this is such, a complex case, with a long history to, as you've begun to outline, you want to just take his back to that initial involvement that you had and how that initial stage, they first, in their segregation's, they first steps kind of began to take form and began to roll out this year, I'm a 7th year in vertigate in and I'm always aware that you can become complacent, you know, a police say, 90% of cases of deal with it just misinterpretation and Is the Paranormal element to it.

1:13:59

It's doubtful so suddenly you get an email.

So in, this is what's happening.

So the first stage now is to set this carefully so I'm not completed enough to think.

Ah, this is so extraordinary.

1:14:15

I can't believe it that was never the case.

So, when I first the case came to me by Keith Linda to cool.

He's a family I can name the counties and Essex in Essex.

Tits got this ongoing problem with at least help again to being back on the internet, trying to get to more help in I don't phone the personal spoke to the female householder and I get told me story, we're all human when we dealing with this type of phenomena and it's only natural, he gonna be suspicious.

1:14:55

Is this true?

What I'm being told?

so I go with this, I mean, you know, this is a Germany dead, I spoke to the lady kind of following day, I don't get my colleague.

To speak to the day after.

And we compared notes between Them from that day, even to currently shooting Arabia's later.

1:15:16

I've never had any need to question Integrity by the honesty of this family ever.

Wishes unusual I realized within two to three weeks because the problem I have is a speaking to a witness this, telling your story.

1:15:34

It's five and a half going on for five and a half years.

How can we?

Analyze this information. what they did do is to supply and 60 movies and images, which to take and over these, this five year period and some of these are compelled so, once we made a decision between myself and colleague, yeah, this appears to be a significant case.

1:16:04

Off.

Some significance.

His father's, historically, consider, could talk about phenomena.

It's been around for five and a half years, incredible.

I don't contacted John face.

Yeah, showed him a couple of the videos.

1:16:19

In one particular, one, the The famous supported Cayenne.

This is where the mouse male householder, it just coming down the stairs, you hear this crack sound and this five times materializes, our midair hits the door, unfold onto the floor. when we did experiment, we realized if this was some form of Hulk or fraud, they would have to be on view of the CCV camera that the car did this about That was really what opened up the confidence with the people to think.

1:16:54

Yeah, this has to be as a defeating case and now need to throw his much resources into it because simply don't know how long this Gonna Last up that's far because the property.

So Hat Flatline for love and bonds in 2020.

1:17:12

Got up here, period of 11 months of no activity, never occurred.

Again, I've got we didn't know that at the time.

I was just going to ask us, you know follow up with that.

In terms of you know just the scale of the involvement.

I mean your your mentioning there obviously being able to capture some of that on safe, for example, the CCTV.

1:17:32

You know do you want to just kind of help set the scene in terms of just the the scale of the type of equipment that you were able to bring in to really Aid the investigation side of things?

Yeah, the When we first got the case, we're just dealing with the day-to-day matters and what we were looking to do is introduce processes.

1:17:55

Which the family can use to immediately notify us of any activity may occur.

So, One of the things that we wanted to do very early on is CCTV cameras and if the family, we've got to be comfortable with this, the you have had to come as install for our involvement. but the Throne of them away because upon our group told them they were auntie, so, we decided, okay, what we're going to do, we're going to put four cameras and initially one wanting to the living room, one in the kitchen, one in the hallway, on the top hallway.

1:18:37

Mainly to cover the kind of pause which seemed to be only manifested in the top or bottom hole way or in the living room.

He never actually came anywhere else.

So all you know, if a couple of cameras, have a good, she gonna catch them the difficulty, got then we call it cameras is They were working with The Spar.

1:19:01

It's an organization, it's been around 143 years, the ethics.

Is incredibly strong, Michelle.

So, we have to put processes in place to ensure that we're doing things legally.

Well, we're in a, an age now.

1:19:17

Where I've got data protection, we've got ethics policies and so on that, we need to introduce.

So what actually happens is that initially, we would not look at any of the cameras, unless the family filled an online report who's called an online report.

So, for example, something moves in the living room family would go click on this link on the, on the mobile phone and do an online forum.

1:19:42

Date time.

What happened?

Upload then tell us about you this this video and we would look at the video five minutes before the event five minutes after that was it?

Not only one person from outside would do so they were then download that footage presented to us.

1:20:02

So we looked up to the ethics side as the case, moved on of the need to bring other equipment into play.

This is not much he can do without actually being at the property.

Michelle.

So we relied very heavily on short things is to see TV.

1:20:20

He did change them out of our eight or nine months into more high-end equipment, mainly just to help us with the better audio and visual quality, where if you got a kind of portrait, for example, we need to zoom into the footage, we found with the older cameras, a picture quality, we break up, so we needed to have better quality camera and likewise with the audio could be like, on this ideal being the best possible quality.

1:20:48

They gave us lots and lots and lots of information from wrapping feet to actually follow in the complete course of one coin in particular of each using three three, the cameras.

1:21:06

Very able to just use one coming straight to stop Lily. where the sounds were emanating from, so If they're in the hallway and here, this wrapping sound, we could use for a minimal for Commerce later.

1:21:23

A nine cameras to find out exactly which can the loudest of the audio.

And and I think one of the things that it also helps to highlight is something that you actually said right at the beginning of that, which is that this was really about setting up processes and systems.

1:21:41

And you can see a clear system there that also involves the family and, you know, having spoken to many other parapsychologists investigators, you know, really renowned eminent people from a cross the pond in America, for example, who do very similar things to yourself.

1:21:57

You know, they talk about the same thing and I think you see it here really clearly, which is the family being given that ability.

To also document to record.

They become an active part of the investigation, too, in a way that allows them to take some control back and that can also be quite a calming aspect of what you're doing, because it opens up that communication, it can help to de-escalate things.

1:22:23

Sometimes just to give them that little bit of control back.

And I think you just really clearly the very clear systems for communication, for for recording those, those will important points of things like, ethics and documentation, and rigor, you just see really clearly being set up, which I think is the important thing to really hit home.

1:22:45

I think there.

Yeah, the two aspects, or, if you look at the the asset side, the American Zoo things very differently, what they're doing you, okay?

And, you know, I can remember this discussion with these saying, well, why don't you put cameras in all bedrooms, for example?

1:23:05

We can't do that.

You just can't happen.

Why can't you investigate?

When these children we can't?

Yeah.

We won't enter property.

If this, anyone under the age of 18, that's how it works.

We will not enter a property.

1:23:22

I will not enter any part of his property on my own.

If there was a single person for example, Weird already got processes and protocols in place.

So, when it was that we wanted to formulate The Joint working with the SBR, they needed themselves to be comfortable working with us, Michelle and likewise other family happy with those.

1:23:48

A lot of is really just duplicating the barriers go to color agreements.

We had with the family.

The time we were told inviting Advance.

Exactly.

What are we going to help use the data?

They all the data from the cameras audio, whatever.

1:24:03

We've taken belongs the family, they can play the past, delete any point in time, if he said to us or the SPI, there's only two copies of the full data available.

One is his Spa one is with me on a hard drive.

1:24:22

If the family say delete, we have to press delete that's how it is.

Okay.

Do the line on my honesty?

That would that be careful?

The Americans in slighter?

Another aspect to the canvas is very interesting.

It's something I mentioned to the SBI, where's There was a particular problem with the because we work off Wi-Fi.

1:24:48

So did lost the modem went down at the house, so we had no canvas, we couldn't go in the cameras and and retrieve the footage.

Although they do have memory cards, it will still be carded.

And what the female householders is.

1:25:04

I don't feel comfortable with the cameras, not working.

Almost in a way if the camera is we've been becoming a friend reassurance to her.

That everything's going to be okay.

The cameras are here.

And a lot of that was based off her with, if we put a camera something, it's somewhere the phenomena dried up and he disappeared into another room.

1:25:30

You know, I was forever in the kitchen, maybe in the camera around because in the do things, in your explains spot, that makes sense.

What the family was held.

They looked upon their is a form of reassurance that I expected to happen.

1:25:46

What we do, have strong ethics and policy calls in place because Recovery cameras regarding 365.

Days of the year, we have to be careful what we do with that.

And so the the ethics is quite strong and in the area.

1:26:04

Because if you go back to Enfield, one of the things that I've turned in a modern-day violent, people criticized by Enfield is marriage called guideline paper, in the kids bedroom example, in the early hours.

Well, the two kids were asleep.

That's a no go.

1:26:20

You would never enter into that, but Things were done differently. 40. 50 years ago you know we it's how it is now.

So have you ever personally experienced anything?

Whilst you're there investigating, you know as an investigator have you yourself experienced things in the property.

1:26:39

Within 60 miles away.

All the cases, like chest.

Yeah, I'm let's try miles away.

I can go there.

It's often as I wanted to but this property is different is so far away.

We've done, three investigations.

One, lasted three days back in January 2023 with the investigated, staying at the hotel funded, by yes.

1:27:02

PR then going into the property and the day.

The family went on holiday in the June of that year and we just hit it with multiple cameras are monitored it, 24 hours a day to seven day.

Incredibly limited.

The only thing we got from that is that when with no humans in the property for week, nothing else, you happen.

1:27:25

So it appear to be, you do need to human element for the phenomena to occur.

We then went there in the September of 2020, three and spent five nights in six days when the family run holiday and we all experience unusual occurrences that were very difficult to explain.

1:27:49

And for me, I found it a problematic because You know, you all I lost, count them, hundreds of properties of ancient experience.

Nothing, maybe You know, maybe even a normally on a photographer on audio, but nothing else.

1:28:12

And my problem is, I don't sense of feel on it and I've got no, I've got the psychic ability of the brick, don't feel anything.

So rely on evidence with this property, it is different.

I'll give you two one, involves all three of us and you'll involved just make this is where the back to go to experience.

1:28:34

The first event occurred is the reason why we went in for six days and five nights is you have to be in a property for long periods of time.

Bolt yourself in there, there is a family do because we cut, we slept there we showered, we just stayed there for six days.

1:28:52

You can't go into do like a Ghost Adventures investigation into property before five six hours.

The light that is you go in there, you come out there with absolutely nothing.

So that's the reason why we wanted to to be there for that period of time.

Plus do the experiments and measurements we wanted to undertake any, right?

1:29:10

So I we write that like on the Tuesday afternoon, we've gone out for tea and because we're actually, Gonna be cooking up.

I'm a bit of a like cooking.

So, if you've heard of a company called Holo fashioned, the six days of meals, and I'm cooking, I picked that up because he's been taking to one of the darkest houses.

1:29:37

So pick that up with Kevin.

The company on the best education, we returned to the property, about quarter to nine at night.

You see me on the CTV, coming in holding the Box.

Going to the cushion place in uptown.

1:29:53

Come the following more in when we got up.

I mean, now need to go to the shop to get some supplies in Brad, mielke, that type of thing, but I can't find my car keys.

So I contacted Andy, he's based off in Chester.

He's you in charge of the cameras.

1:30:10

We've got four cameras in their And said to him, look, I've been outside.

I can't find my car keys and I looked inside, we can't find it.

So he said, I'll send you the video now can see you coming through the door.

You've got the box and then you might hand.

You've got your keys.

You see on the kitchen camera, putting the box down and put in the car keys down on the counter.

1:30:31

None of his lead to property.

So my perspective I'm quite happy to because I have not lost and I under pound keyless, car ignition kit on the car.

All just got to do is find him but we can't we searched ion love.

1:30:47

So in your, we have to watch the shop.

So I'm now thinking I'm going to have to contact the insurance company.

I've got insurance for these things, ignition keys.

So what we decided to do, just have to set up the second CCTV, sister this about 7:00 on the, on the Wednesday.

1:31:07

For the four bedrooms which we're going to Interchange the three of us.

We're going to swap bedroom showing that six days and we have no problem being monitored by CCTV very to the camera system.

What I've done.

Well, with, I took a larger monitor with me.

1:31:25

It's always set the camera system up, put them on a troll.

But the actual monitor lead, I hadn't realized it's got the smaller Euro connection, not the large one, which is what the lead was, which is only CCTV.

But So we colleague.

1:31:41

Amanda Griffith had a lot of got spelling so they don't know if you're going to box 2, which is the button of the Box.

Because when we arrived there taking multiple equipment, six boxes, call them all in the hallway in the corner.

The bottom box box, too.

1:31:57

He just really I think it's in a way.

It's like well we all of a spare drawing at home.

Don't be where we 12 junk in to it.

That's what Box 2 was Far.

So Amanda dies in the Box called China's tooth upper did her smile monitor League which she didn't Then she says, coming up a look at the bottom of the box.

1:32:18

How the car keys?

And the three I was looking at each other. now, at this point, I know I'm not done that.

I'm looking at them, too.

As well.

I haven't done it.

1:32:33

Have you to do it?

This will why on Earth would you do that?

Go to Andy.

He checks all the way through the footage because we've got all the cameras, kitchen hallway, and living room.

No one goes near box, too. so, the question we have, Is how do the keys go from the kitchen into box, too?

1:32:54

And had we have not found that monitor its if I did not swap the monitor me, Pop.

Never found the khakis.

Michelle. so with that particular event, that occurred to all of us about to do is a truly astonishing event that we have no explanation while and they can only be a power armor explanation for that because three of us did not lose tonight.

1:33:24

This this happened and we've got all the video footage to prove that was our I just explained it.

On the Friday because we've been there Tuesday, on a Wednesday, Thursday, likewise on the third day on a Friday.

I'm going to do what I've done.

1:33:41

The three people, the two previous Marlin.

Apostate.

Shower.

So what I've done because I've now got to walk across the the hallway from bedroom one which is the room.

I was staying at that particular time.

I'm not going to cross out and just me underwear, so I'm fully clothed.

1:34:01

I've got me, clean t-shirt and underwear walking to the bathroom.

Now, what I've done now is the undergarments which are now about all the last 24 hours of throwing on the floor.

1:34:16

And on the reason why I've done is went up to set out the show before it's got laminated floor and I'm dropping water everywhere.

So I've used the undergarments to just try up to about the shower.

That's what the reason.

Why through my I have to shower.

1:34:32

I get back out.

A go to the the radiator where a put the cleaning on the way.

On the T-shirt.

I'm not there.

I've got machines, they would stretched across the the low cost the window ledge.

1:34:50

Which jacket and the body are there, other side of the radiator.

I don't know where the undergarments have gotten.

So I'll put the clean stuff on.

I look around, look out for I must have taken them off.

1:35:10

Because otherwise other because I was fully clothed, when I went into the shower, I'm completely confused.

I've now decided I need to go to loan.

I lift the lid, and the lid up and the toilet seat off.

Their pushed into the Tyler, the T-shirt not to comments.

1:35:28

Well I'd put on the floor.

Now, I know anyone listening to this will think I'm way to the Moon.

But I'm a creature of happy and that's exactly.

What happened?

That that Friday morning now.

1:35:44

I got a problem talking about this and certainly did me two to three weeks and I spoke to me colleague's outside.

I said he won't believe what just happened to me. and, I then contacted John Fraser.

I said, you know, Here we are.

1:36:02

Investigating being transparent.

This is what's happening and it is John actually fairness to him, gave me the confidence report, it speak about it and referred me to guideline play for his book.

My house is haunted, where guideline Playford had taken a book round to a neighbor, come back to the house and Enfield and a book was back on the table.

1:36:24

And guideline play for had a difficult to discuss it out later.

We did mention in the book much later on, so, That's the first time for me as far as what in a way Michelle turned into like a funny story.

1:36:41

I call it, they the Fanta Thief.

I had to make like, how of this because I know it's how I explained and people even now listen to him, he's not gonna believe me other and It's difficult territory for when this does happen to you, okay he's fine.

1:37:03

I'm no problem with the car key.

There are two witnesses that I've got CCTV, but then I've got sort of no evidence whatsoever.

So my word for and often, that's not always available.

This is it Know it's it's a difficult area I think because it's that moment, isn't it?

1:37:23

Where the investigator is?

Also the experiencer and you are in the same position as the family, having things inexplicable happening to you that again some may question, some may look at you as if you are talking from another planet and I think you experience that unique position then of what it's like in that moment when you can't explain in your questioning what's just happened and it it's a difficult one because you're there in the role as an investigator.

1:37:58

But at the same time, this is a set of circumstances and an environment where you yourself find yourself experience saying what others are experiencing.

It's a real blurring of those lines.

Yeah, it's really, really difficult.

1:38:15

And, you know, that, you know, it is problematic when things happen where you only got one witness for no evidence whatsoever to back at all.

And we'd add all the events occurred.

1:38:31

We are two events where we got the door knocker.

Kevin foul within the living room with his back to the the front of the the window. and you hear, Very definite.

Knocking at the door.

I'm upstairs.

1:38:46

And B colleague.

Amanda Griffin in the kitchen.

We all heard her.

Care in turns his head, to the left.

So, because he can see that like, the, the porch at the door locked.

There's no one there.

Now, Kevin I said, Mobility problems, he's not the fastest on the planet, so Amanda come through, leave me.

1:39:06

I'll get him to open the door.

It's nobody there.

And so all I've just found that it's helpful to my head within seconds of hearing knocking.

It's impossible for someone to have left that just not to run because I would have spotted up and that happened on two occasions again on eBay and he was wondering what was the car?

1:39:31

And what we began to realize is.

What we were experiencing was fundamentally different.

What the family had been reported in over the previous year.

So and, when you start to attempt to try and if the itemized, you know, you Every event seemed to be different.

1:39:56

It's not as if the only repeat events, we had were really the coins supported together with TV Behavior.

They're the only similar.

But you've got other objects such as a kettle, it's just spontaneously switched itself onto occasions captured on CCTV.

1:40:19

Two more occasions with the washer and about three or four occasions but the tumble dryer he just started up.

Now in principle, a tumble dryer.

Our washer should not start with the door open.

But the Dead. so, you got these and he suddenly it was also changed room on, you know, one occasion, very early on the he was a particular small window in the living room and without on two separate occasions, with about a week between, one of these young Yankee Candles where you just, you know, a couple of kilos and why just Flew across the living room.

1:41:00

It moved around 25 foot and fell onto the floor.

Another one was a magnum.

Champagne had been given to the to the male and female over nanoverse 3 that was on there and that was quite a heavy way that just spontaneity left the window light then it moved into the picture.

1:41:20

So you get things like a toaster will move a water bottle, a full bottle of bubble bath.

Just that was an unusual one because I went into the air and then went onto the floor.

Captured on CT.

1:41:37

And then something else to the church completely different to what was occurring before.

So he really He's almost as if.

He asked like a 12000 events.

He's going to try out dude, going through a list one at a time.

It's never always the same different rooms different item, different phenomena on possible to, to keep track of likewise with mimicking without.

1:42:04

Three different vices of different householders and in the pocket, the mimicked.

Very, you know, if if you look at the anfield one it was always Bill Wilkins.

The device that he had.

1:42:20

In this case, there are three different bases.

All happened to be female.

A lot that there was a coincidence, as far as that was concerned.

It is difficult times to Fully understand what on Earth he's going on and it plays with your mind, Michelle Over The Believer, ability aspect topic because we can't be complacent.

1:42:41

I think.

Well, well, when we were there for this, that we had numerous events at happened to Which were not been able to explain till therefore, everything else has got to be part of all, we've never taken that judgment.

But it just play with your mindset.

1:43:00

For one t.

Maturing and tracking and collating during the investigation.

Can you maybe give her an overview of some of the key metrics in the indicators that you've been focused on?

Okay.

1:43:16

Yes.

Well for this case, we monitoring A hap, what's happening every day.

So far, we take it from day to day, and when the family mentioned something that they see happening or hear happening, we note that down.

1:43:36

And that's what I do with the Excel sheet.

So, I know down, what is happening?

Who are in the house?

How many times is it happening?

Is it every day, is it?

We can monitor every day or it's all over specific day in a week.

1:43:57

Or is it in the in?

The only one in a month, we saw some activity in the beginning, mostly upstairs.

But That changed during the investigation to almost everywhere in the house and lately more downstairs.

1:44:19

Yes, you can see a little pattern and you can't see a little pattern.

It's quite difficult and we haven't worked it out.

Still yet.

We do see that in the beginning, the world a lot of activity on Sundays.

1:44:37

It but that was also the busiest when the most people were in in the house so that was a pattern on the Sundays.

There was extra activity.

But that was later on wasn't the case.

1:44:53

So there is not really a good pattern to see.

Yeah.

So it's just gonna say, say based on your analysis though, then so far, you started identifying these patterns in these Trends.

But you would say that it's hard to still pinpoint specific things that you can notice.

1:45:11

Is that right?

Yes, that's right.

We had the beginning, a lot of coins dropping. coins for following from, Somewhere in the house somewhere.

All the floor, not specific room, not a specific place.

1:45:28

Not not on the first floor, but the downstairs as well.

Later on, we had a lot of locking wrappings and he had sometimes, we're didn't receive any coins in the house.

1:45:44

So that's there's no cat on. so why, why would you say then that, you know, tracking this type of data, logging this type of information What would you say that kind of helps to bring to the table in terms of understanding the nature of the Paranormal Activity?

1:46:02

In this particular case if at all well, if you if you don't notice down, You you can't analyze it, for instance, in the beginning, we had a lot of coins dropping.

1:46:18

Or falling or appearing I would say but you want to know if how many coins were there.

And when did it happen?

Was it only in one room or or not?

And if you don't know that down, you have no idea what's happening at all.

1:46:37

So, what that does the data suggest then about the frequency and the intensity of the activity over an average week, say, oh, that's difficult question. well, the most most of, the reports came in almost Thursday till Sunday and with, despite all Sunday, As now, it's more variable in the beginning, it seems most of phenomena were based around the children.

1:47:07

But these days, most reports coming in are from the elders.

So, It makes it difficult to analyze, the pinpoint it.

And I think again it comes back to something that you said earlier.

It's it's the complex nature of this case because those Trends have changed like you rightly said there, it's seems to move from upstairs to downstairs too throughout the house.

1:47:31

Two certain days of the week, then being more variable to targeting certain members of the household, and then that shifting and changing.

And again, it just comes back to that complex aspect of the case.

In terms of the patterns, change the activity changes who it focuses on changes when it happens changes, which again makes it really difficult to see any concrete pattern that is there throughout.

1:47:59

But at the same time I think highlights the reason and the necessity to keep tracking in and logging the information because of the complexity of it.

Yes.

So just kind of following on from that, have you managed to identify any specific locations within the property that show may be?

1:48:21

A higher level of Paranormal Activity.

Well, with a few exceptions, most activity was was based on the ground floor these days And particularly in the kitchen.

And this hat has continued for some months as in the beginning, when we started to monitor Monitoring sorry, most incidents were happening upstairs.

1:48:46

So there's a little change there.

Well, there there has never been any pattern to the time of the day.

Only the day of two weeks.

It was this difficult to accept, it was too problematic, I think with many variables such as Reliance on correct times because given the clocks being correct, it's generally believed that Poltergeist are time accurate and certainly in this case of reps.

1:49:19

So for example there were there wasn't a pattern unless we could ensure the time of an event was exact that there wasn't a little point of or another But generally seeing there might be a human agent, I don't know, it might be associated with the new occupier.

1:49:43

But then again, it affects all of the people in the living in the house.

Imagine living in the house with cameras, all over the place and never knowing what's going to happen next.

And when I think most people get stressed over it and perhaps the the male person Is stressed more than the female person.

1:50:06

I don't know.

So Tony, could you explain what geopathic stress is?

And how it might typically present in a household in fireman?

And of course, how that might be the then observed in connection with possible, Paranormal Activity?

1:50:23

Yes, the if you look at your perfect so you can put it into two areas, there's one, which is the natural environment.

The locations based on a probably a perfect example of pure geopathic stress because it has got some extreme with Environmental.

1:50:42

A stress such as 5G. 3G, Mobile prompt technology will be sticking to the geology.

The two areas one, if you look at the sanctuary's fault, on the Florida, plot fault line in United States, they have more than their average of paranormal reports either on the default line or close by the he's a pure coincidence.

1:51:08

If we look at the UK itself, the people often me fear, to lay lines energy lines.

Although, there's no actual science fact that these are not natural phenomena because people just simply line up, it's still called Monument, Stonehenge, Avis circles, and so on, and then of course into that comes the the environmental parts of the Chiropathy.

1:51:40

She's now technology within the household or maybe.

So things says feature houses, generally absolutely hammered with electronic equipment and when I look at it, you're going bus.

1:51:57

I'll be about two decades. 25 years, blah blah blah.

When people reported activity a property, they generally Associated that with living rooms and kitchens that's predominantly where equipment was based then, later on over the last couple of decades.

1:52:13

We've seen the shift into bedrooms and places where now these days particularly children, you have TVs Xboxes DVD players laptop computers, as well as Mobile phones on charges all sorts of devices.

1:52:30

So, when you go into do Baseline regions, which will mostly better to do now to a property, the first time suddenly encounter high levels of Emma, the difficulty you have with a basic Air Max me to his office, he is trying to measure multiple types of 888.

1:52:50

From the investigators point of view.

They have an interest in in that type of geopathic, strike.

Because they generally agree that.

Us, if we look at Spirit is Spirit, has to be an energy and for a spirit to do certain things such as moving item knock on doors or whatever it is it's that it's doing it needs and energy and that's where it gets this energy from investigate for a long time of reported on explain Bachelor so what you end up with is quite a mixed bag of what it is we're dealing with.

1:53:30

We look at a matter of fact, early days with the case the natural magnetic anomalies and you look for unusual areas such as high levels of magnetic anomalies that may be associated with the property.

1:53:47

But the problem is these Century.

Yo, maybe 20, 30 miles circular anomalous within the Earth's core.

She's not actual, why is it only one property?

Demonstrates phenomena, where was dude?

1:54:02

Not.

So I think we've agreed in the past when we deal with this phenomena, we must be doing with a manager and it is an issue involved, the most therefore be able to measure that and maybe learn from it.

That's where I think the trees will lie, you know, understand it what it is.

1:54:20

It's a caring.

If you don't subscribe to the mainstream belief that you able to move solid matter in thought alone, I don't agree with that.

The hypothesis.

I think there has to be some form of energy transfer for this activity to care.

1:54:38

Generally part of every investigate.

His kid is a an EMF meter.

The difficulty that some of us get is find that they get the equipment and I'm not being patronized in here, but the German, we don't know what it actually does.

If you see either a meter flashcard, same, he's got 20 milligrams.

1:54:58

Oh, it's got flashing like not Germany, understanding what that device is actually measuring.

A lot of people don't realize.

Certain amount of meat is work on a particular frequency.

So we take probably the most common high-end meter is the malta here at meter that works on between their two and three hundred hertz frequency.

1:55:23

Germany, not to set a bolt to electrical bleed.

You're the type, some more cheaper wanted 2025, she's got off the lights to be an Amazon.

Will keep you plenty false feet in.

So EMF in his basic Farm isn't more used to.

1:55:40

Yeah, so she's gonna probably give you some sort of my transfer flashing lights.

So when we moved into this particular property and if you readings is one of my my strong points when I when I graduated back in the early 1980s I was within the Imperial chemical industry using an experimental sell room.

1:56:01

And for two years, I up to document to see what people were experiencing.

When they entered this experimental cell movement, basically the membrane solid cells with a moan.

Yeah, to make chlorine gas in turn, that would be in electrified by 120000 volts.

1:56:23

And one of the byproducts the gold, build it and then it metal are become martinis.

So I'm hearing a very nice is there.

If you went into this experimental, sell room, you will be getting to sort of various symptoms.

1:56:38

Some people would be poor seeing way behind like shakes moving, feeling of fear, feeling of feeling a dreadfully unwell.

And what we realized very early on, it's a different people's symptoms.

1:56:55

Rediff and to others and non-reading two people.

They were like, depending on this the exposure time.

So when you then take that into a normal house itself.

We can probably regard is fact that people will react to different types of energy differently and I suppose all the more recent times we've had other suggestions such as infants, which is the zero to 20 Hertz.

1:57:26

If I had been subjected to that the person can be begin to demonstrate how different symptoms, like why is weird cabin and upside people and green mold.

We've seen all these older heated times on some of the poems, like, uncanny of Visa searched into author types.

1:57:46

Of when he talked about black mold talk about different toxins, which may affect persons, are they suffering symptoms of some form of energy or with the type person in barely?

What is it?

The end of the day it may explain some of the phenomena such as sea, and she feeling fearful, maybe even static, electricity may be demonstrated by high levels of radiation and the property, but it would not explain objects move in Knocking on doors, that type of thing.

1:58:22

So sometimes you don't always Know, depending on what it is, it's being reported to you in the property mansion.

What we'd actually did with this back in September of 2023.

Is take every time to equipment in the we could think up.

1:58:42

I even took a magnetometer and to measure if the rear any magnetic anomalies.

And then we started to investigate basic, reading such as temperature, then into the radiation elements because all energy is radiation of sometimes so, this house itself, Began to demonstrate.

1:59:04

Unusual readings in Bolt temperature, as well as is radiation. and I think we've all spoken to people, particularly me Jones make her into property and begin to feel our sons on There's a spirit here.

1:59:22

I've always suggested that the female is far most sensitive to energy than the male counterpart, and quite envious because I got the sidekick sensitivity of a brick. so, When the three of us walked into that property.

1:59:38

The first time, it's September is my colleague, Amanda Griffith.

She began to Sailfish sensitive likewise to care in Farrell.

I am not so all three of us began to Experience different.

1:59:54

Feeling to the property, the answer now, what are the question, what we're able to most are?

And that's certainly was the case in the property, particularly on the bottom of the start together with the bathroom, which gave these unusual regions.

2:00:09

I'm not talking low temperature on this.

These were higher temperature.

He'd move too far away from there, and all the temperature would fall away and a different set of radiation regions would be measured.

So we were able to scientifically prove that the house itself was demonstrated unusual radiation levels.

2:00:32

The only thing we couldn't conclude is over what period of if we moved in the following week, Michelle would these reading beat any different Hall would be the same and Kevin foul himself with.

We basically just put cards on the each of the rooms on the carpet, almost like a chess board and I'd be very was numbered and I would move him with to take the measurement, are we got Pitch close to understanding the dynamic.

2:01:04

So when we actually looked at the date where we're looking at activity to carry and what areas of the house to recover and the lowest point was at the bottom of the stars on the area, 34 square area.

When we then looked at the data of the young usual temperature and radiation reader and we found they were the highest.

2:01:27

So it's almost as if the so the highest points, the radiation gave the lowest levels of phenomena.

People will sometimes refer to these areas is such as ports or Vortex.

It's interesting because, you know, some just thinking about some of the places that you've mentioned there, where you are talking about, these strange readings, you know, these anomalous readings and, you know, just thinking about back to the conversation that we've had already.

2:01:55

They coincide with some of the areas that you've also mentioned.

So it again, it throws up all these questions.

Doesn't it these interesting patterns and observations with the data, as well, as with what you're seeing?

In terms of strange, anomalous, activity or experiences?

2:02:12

Yeah, because of the house itself.

It was a strange heart.

No question.

Because would we run really running the case?

Probably close to a year and a half that point when we moved into it. and, So why would you what we call the highest number of people?

2:02:39

Well, I also know that it changed when I first got involved the case in the toe 2022.

For the first three months that the most busiest active, boom, with what I call bedroom 4.

2:02:56

That then changed some time later into the living room then.

Six months later that the most active room became the kitchen.

So we would when we arrived there in September because it took us almost part 3 days.

2:03:12

To do these readings with.

Cults to 700 separate measurements of taking over that period.

Would it change again?

If the, you know, what is it?

The Virginia with what is, where does this radiation come from?

When I wanted to the actual calculation of the radiation with the temperature, the bomb of the stars together with the bathroom, which directly above her?

2:03:37

It's about half of all when he can do convert to a conversion from radiation to voltage.

So he was a big clue as to what it was the dealing with using hypothesis as we are dealing with.

2:03:54

An nhg.

It may be hyperd of some type.

Um we were able over that three-day period to measure quite accurately.

It's just a shame that Fate into being that whenever able to repeat that that experience last year when a house unfortunately but to the ground and just kind of thinking back to that the conversation that I've had with that, the female homeowner in there in the past and on the previous podcast and you know, your your kind of Investigations to date.

2:04:29

Obviously some of the family members have thoughts about what could have, possibly triggered, the kind of activity that they saw.

I know you've obviously done investigation into things like the the records for the house.

You know, historical archaeological things I'm sure.

2:04:48

Did anything come up through those investigations that you think played into anything in this case?

The closest we ever got to the trigger, The Smoking Gun of what occurred.

Was when the one of the old daughters went to the cemetery. and, He got drunk.

2:05:11

One night is teenagers, did do from time to time.

Did some sort of procedure in the cemetery, then came back to the property and did a hide, some form of hybrid science, you know, reaching board session, two weeks to three weeks later.

2:05:26

This is where we were told the phenomena started to get first kept reported.

It's a closest we've got to this trigger.

We've looked obviously into the Cycles side.

I can't say we're completely confident with that, but overall recent times, Over the last couple of months, this is another I participate Maybe.

2:05:51

Without looking at because they the case is still ongoing.

On that came about because when I write, what we copy came out, is the David.

I make an entry every single day and did for two years.

And because I physically write in the diary, I remember things instantly Tiki changes and particularly affecting names.

2:06:14

So up to round about, just how to string of last year 2024 the two younger children are both twins, they really had no activity around and we reported A couple of bits of activity, but highly subjective.

2:06:35

And then what happened and through the spring of last year, particularly to the data, he was 12 without that state. she started to report mimicking, which is unusual and bizarre in itself.

2:06:51

And there was several of these she would be in the hallway would have a mother call from the kitchen going to watch on one.

I don't know.

Called you just said I'm not another occasion up in where one of all the sister she said because Colin I called trying to find out.

2:07:12

Okay, to a mother she's gonna find if she's on a Drive in Los Angeles.

Yeah, she's recording us now.

All these events were captured on on CC TV.

Now, one of the later ones occurred round just before the the fire.

2:07:31

So long about July, I'll get the last year.

What you see is, the girl goes into the bottom bathroom, she comes out.

And then we pick her up talking to a mother, on the living room TV, and what she says, The, I'm not gonna mention that the data's, no obvious reason.

2:07:51

It's just been She's just been knocking on the door and said to me.

How long are you gonna be?

I need to come in.

But she came out, she wasn't there.

Now, when I looked up the seat, the camera of that hallway, which is literally two, three, four away.

I would have expected to have heard this fight that she reported, but it wasn't Amisha.

2:08:13

So this is a 12 year old child and when we looked at them, we viewed the video.

He's taking a living when she was explaining it to her mother.

That's been seeing now by two psychologists and both sigh.

Okay, we reported he's not being light on his certainly, Belize what she saying, she's telling the truth. so, This then coincide you well to the fire when the family room in went to Morocco.

2:08:43

A number of unusual events occurred.

Again, just a couple of Kinds book, The standout one word, She the 12 year old had gone back to her bedroom and while she was, she could hear her sister, same sister shouting that we go.

2:09:03

And this confuses are because she said, I could have sworn, she was in the swimming pool.

She looks outside the, the hotel room.

And swimming in the pool is assessor.

Now, she used a number when on the actual video itself with quite a number of reviewer.

2:09:24

She, what she says?

It sounds like its sister, but she sounded robotic.

Yet in her own mind, she assisted was talking to her, so what is she actually listened to is it, some disembodied Vice is it some farmer telepathic communication?

2:09:43

We're not entirely.

Sure, Because of these began to escalate with the dark because the common room he is this girl is still around was around in 2017.

When the phenomena first started, she was about six years of age.

2:10:02

The reason why if we've got anything common to the case, it says started.

The reason why we take quite an interest over recent time.

Now, when I spoke to the mother coffee weeks ago, When the beginning because she says, she's now deporting wrapping in the bedroom, something she not experienced before.

2:10:22

When we looked at the twins themselves she was born second, the son that was born first.

No problems, no complications when she was born.

She was born stillborn dead.

They took three to four minutes to be Viber yet to us society.

2:10:40

And she's in on life support for three or four days before they moved into.

Could you call car and she could stop what happened to it significant?

I don't know, you know.

So as far as the trick is said to be evolving, still where we have happened, we're not sure it may well be because Since the five, obviously, they the family moved into a new property.

2:11:11

And he only Flatline, we are seeing it being replaced by this young girl's.

He's actually 13 years ages.

This week, we call Tim unusual activity around herself, it's confusing pitcher, Michelle Hunter but I think it highlights something very important though, which is to really be aware that tracking this type of of data when it comes to the family structure.

2:11:40

You know living arrangements, the home itself who's in and out.

Why that's so important to then, be able to use that data, to get that much larger picture to, then try and correlate that with observable phenomena.

If possible to start to kind of go down these paths where you can formulate a hypothesis and see how that plays out, you know, it's why the data is so important.

2:12:04

Yeah, you right.

Because we scratched our heads now for two euros.

Trying to understand and it may well be at the end of the day will never be able to understand.

What actually happened.

2:12:19

And the reason for that is when we started to post us today to generally don't buy against her.

Spent should time of me.

Asking questions what you just fire.

What you have to put it in your usable farmer, which is very excuse for to.

2:12:38

And so, we were able to see is And you know the data that we were busy yes.

Together with what rooms were most active. who was in the property given time when the reports were made, we then started to ask everybody made the report, On a zero to 10 scale, how the house felt how the person felt.

2:13:05

Okay?

So subject to because you're relying on the person honestly Integrity, what is better than nothing?

So without the female also reports something like partner is just to ride back from work is in about me.

And what we started to say is an escalation and inactivity.

2:13:23

So when we then started to put that to the test, far as how the house felt How the individual file the was a coloration between both of them.

When you then.

2:13:38

So that was suggested that it was more persons unto The family went on holiday.

Hunted miles away.

The three of us may have been to the property for six days and nights.

Yet, we experience phenomena which is radically different to what the family reported before.

2:14:00

Which is suggestive of a location based phenomena. and then, you've got all the other Add-ons, which leads you totally confused.

Whatever.

What happened?

2:14:17

What's the trigger?

Why is it here?

Why is it still here and what can we can we do anything at all to try and suppress it and it's not easy if not impossible.

And I, and I would just add to that that, you know, you also have in, I think in this case, an element of, you know, a contagious contagion event, where other people also experience in things then outside of the house.

2:14:43

The contagion one was.

And remains bizarre. when we've analyzed this oh, with time is, you know, because we had multiple investigations occurred and we even Other investigation going on the dream state.

2:15:00

So one of the dart is reporting nightmares and dreams and so on, On alongside this as well.

Came the Contagion Now, it is anything.

Significant for that, is it appeared to be every time the introduced to female into the into the mix?

2:15:20

The female experience phenomena when it returned home, Caroline, McKenzie cues in the property in the January of 2023 for 3 days.

On overturn.

The home experience.

2:15:36

Unusual phenomena.

Kali commanded.

Griffiths are other number of issues his father's contagious concerned.

One was on the TV that suddenly went up to full volume on a just because the one off of event never happened before.

2:15:54

Never happened.

So she said the Cayenne which happened to be a hammer, silver medieval kind in the Sun to the bat, Noah explanation at all, Inskip in the Netherlands.

Some months after she got her she found one with a mother's wedding ring, that was lot to say keep in in the In a bedroom was found, she had this rattling in the Hoover and there was this ring and shuttle found a I think of this sort of an Australian coin of some time that was found on the center of one of the dining chairs and it's on your hair and her husband who are in that place and that was in the Netherlands.

2:16:41

And we can then come to yourself Michelle when we had a webinar when we discussed and I think about the Enfield when you yourself was that contagion experience.

That one.

Oh with the TV?

Remember.

2:16:56

Yeah and I was just gonna say it was the most bizarre moment because it was almost this triangulation between what we were talking about.

You experiencing and having some One messaging from the family to say that the TV was playing up.

And at the same time, you know, brand new television, that's never displayed any problems before or since I might add just started randomly going up to full volume and turning itself on and off.

2:17:22

So, of course we had that Interruption of, can I try and fix the television because no one could understand what was going on, you know, in the house and it's never happened since know it.

The coloration was that's probably one of the best ones we've had to be fired because we were actually speaking about the Enfield electronic Behavior TV because we talk about a case in the 1972 And we mentioned that this this case now about on a modern day, completely different, got smart TVs, and so on.

2:17:56

You then wanted the great because something's going on the background.

I didn't know it.

The point you had problems too.

Hey it wasn't tele went down stairs, and not totally mobile phone, and the household of the case. this saying he's about thinking about that past 8:45 continuing I then send you the email the following day.

2:18:23

Can you just check on that about the deceived this coincide when we were talking about?

And you are exactly the same thing within that which I went up I think within 2030 minutes, all these things occurred in one which again he says contagion.

2:18:46

Now, any skeptic I love her field day with that bullet. what we can't remove is remarkable set of coincidences, old coinciding into the same event, the TV It was bizarre, that's been added to the contagion document because it happened.

2:19:06

And I think these this is where the house was strange.

Don't we written at the South Shield politicized, actually a book called Poltergeist guy, contagion.

He was the first one that really research this, where it's almost becomes similar to like a virus.

2:19:25

When we look at the people involved with this house, only the female's of the contagion.

None.

The males of attic Michelle, which she's bizarre again.

Why is it on a female's of up in the strange phenomena occur to them on different areas?

2:19:43

I'm particularly young.

She's based in the notes. and and there is something very very highly efficient, and organized and suggests real intelligence because Again, to have that coordination of being able to experience something, and have someone experienced something, hundreds of miles away.

2:20:07

And likewise in that moment, that we were describing that precise moment.

When we're discussing about intelligence and intelligent Behavior, being displayed and talking about phenomena with regards to electronics.

And then suddenly, we've got this triangulation with the house and my family experiencing something strange here to the point where they interrupted the podcast, and I'm having to hit mute.

2:20:31

So, you know, my family's not coming through on the recording type thing, you know, it's, it's a strange one, it's really, really uncanny.

Just the kinds of levels of things that happen with regards to this house.

In this case.

Yeah, Kevin up with this one because I was after one of the startup webinars so we have to the other shop.

2:20:55

Think it was about quarter to turn on a third eye, on a Chamberlain.

Was heavily involved with this coach from the outside.

You know, as much as about the case is, I do. and, I was showing you speaking him up to speak you know what had happened over the previous week and the TV behavior in this particular property, a doctors from very day one, we've never been able to understand and work out what is occurring with it.

2:21:25

And the point we almost putty give up investigating the TV.

And just as I say, not nothing on the TV or the last six to seven days ping.

And look at me phone and she sent the WhatsApp TV, just gone to full volume.

2:21:44

Now, when we looked at this, I've got the time.

I was speaking to curb and He remembers his conversation really?

Well, I've got the time that the message was sent and when we analyze our, we thinking, well, if this is genuine contagious, Knew what I was going to say.

2:22:04

Maybe 30 seconds to a minute before I'd actually said it, which in itself, is spacy and strange.

What?

We can't get away from the fact is, this was not a one-off event, Michelle, the Lisa does an occasion when I'd been on the farm to the lady.

2:22:22

Something's Happened live on me when I'm on the phone.

It's a couple of videos where, you know, the certain in the case of the candle that Michael Michonne and the water bottle, I'll catch it on CTV that happened.

2:22:38

Well I'm talking for the waiting looking for an update from the family banging, this bang and everyone jumps and I get the Expedition and it's almost you.

The intelligence is the one where we are difficult to really computer.

2:22:58

That type of hypothesis because we it's not natural.

We're going to just simply dismiss it oh because it's just too strange for this set that this possibly could be real. and just to kind of change, tack, a slightly Just to kind of analyze, something else that you've talked about previously.

2:23:17

But I think we'll really Hammer home some of the, the data and the significance of what you can piece together from the experience as in the property itself here.

I mean, you've spoken before on a previous podcast about sounds and analyzing things like enormous wraps and bangs and and those types of strange phenomena, Do you want to just?

2:23:40

Remind people of some of the significance in terms of the analysis of that data, for things, like the time interval accuracy that you're able to see and record.

Because again, I think this tracks very much with what you were just saying about it suggests something very, very highly intelligent that, you're able to see some of these things coming through, with regards to the data in the analysis of the sound recordings that you've got.

2:24:09

Yeah, good point, touch wait.

Um, could be look at the evidence that gets provided.

If you take for an image example, I've taken a picture of a ghost people to just power.

Don't, you know, your alternative explanations far and you know, with the, you know what, you get a bit of a spike This quite subjective.

2:24:36

With sound itself when it came across.

This probably a nine years ago and dealing with a poltergeist case in in Chester where we dealing with literally thousands of raping.

Because I've dealt with sound Army life.

I realized very early on with these wraps that the perform very, very different.

2:24:57

There is a paper that produced by Dr. Barry Coleman.

One of the colleagues and SBR where he found exactly.

The same performances.

He'd also analyzed some of the wrapping from for men, feel What is copper if you look at a frequency.

2:25:16

So if I went and tapped on a door or on a table and recorded that What you see is almost like a pyramid of sound.

And if the microphone's further away, the permit will get loud larger because sound is done, reflecting off walls reflective object.

2:25:38

Travels to the air.

I'm getting this natural reverberation and the pyramid gets much larger almost like an oblong. what I found out very quickly was looking at now wasn't a permanent.

2:25:55

Well, almost like a tall chimney.

Of song.

No sighting frequency at all are in missing.

Barry Colvin theorized that.

It's almost as if the sound if we take it an old tabletop is unblocks where the sound is coming from?

2:26:15

It's coming from within the world outward and a lot of this resonance, you generally get picked up is kept within the world.

The reason why performance different like My hypothesis is slightly different.

That is that when we dealing with rapid, we're not dealing with an impact as like a hand onto an object or a force.

2:26:37

Maybe a projected sound or an energy is strikes are imprinted into the area.

And that's the reason why it's performing completely different because if you wear it goes, you know, without hearing aids novel here with me, walking on the street, you drop a pound on the floor.

2:26:57

Your head will move the meeting where you hear that sound of the kind striking up, or if it rolls away in silence, he can't help you need to sound.

So you you're racing himself will work out where that sounds coming from.

When you have a raft in a room in a light environment, you haven't really got a clue where he's coming from, in the case of Chester, either looking up looking down, but we were unable to know if it's fun to behind his left.

2:27:28

Alright.

So that it does perform differently and when it is that you get the frequency and you are if you can see, you see the same types of performers.

So certainly in case of the big problem we have in Is we don't have enough cases Michelle to lock up and think.

2:27:52

Yeah, dealt with the case, certainly Chester this case.

Down in down south and Essex.

Of dealing with another case on a colleague.

Yes, prick nickel, ease recorded.

2:28:10

Oh, got somebody.

They was showing the same time to performance at.

So certain in the case of wraps, I think we were able to look at them and say, yeah, that is definitely so far more unusual activities caused it rather than the old one saying it's, you know, you next door, neighbor knocking, oh, whatever the human just have selective hip-hop, it goes to the territory.

2:28:38

Go.

What we also able to show as well with the cameras is the actual volume of them.

Particularly when getting to the latter stages before the house burned down, got caught fire, whereas there were nine cameras inside the property, And there's one unusual one, where the male occupant was actually in the kitchen and you hear this Bang.

2:29:04

He perceives The Sounds coming from the hallway and you see him leaving the kitchen, going to the hallway.

They checking around with something.

His Fel, it confused.

When I then pulled all them videos or full of them and the four cameras.

The largest Spike of Sorrow was from the kitchen as far as volume is concerned.

2:29:27

Yet the guy in the kitchen and proceeded on in the hallway so it doesn't make logical sense.

But what he did he's back to what I've always been saying for some years now the wraps I not convinced.

2:29:43

It's a physical Force, more of a projectile sound.

What is the rock or what does it, why is it so prevalent where people report wrapping?

And I think for my investigators point you if you in a room and you hear rapping, Ricardo.

2:30:04

And if necessary, getting in touch with somebody and let them analyze it for you don't just accept.

Oh, that's wrapping.

Therefore, it must be a goals, we can actually find go somewhere.

I've actually proven, that's the case Michelle because I can't demonstrate.

2:30:22

In particularly this house that we were talking about.

There's one unusual ones because generally you're dealing with wraps of small number, maybe three, four, five, wraps at a time who's one occasion, when there's 20 one wraps When I Look to the Spectrum, it's almost like looking at a comb.

2:30:44

All four all 21.

Almost practically identical volume.

With the many seconds practically identical between each one.

He's almost a synthetically produced somehow.

So, what I actually did that was to Wrap 221 times, used me left and hand movements.

2:31:07

I need twice as long to wrap 20 then 21 that the Ricardo in that property.

I'm just giving you a figure of he had the 21 wraps in Ricard in the property.

Take this over three seconds it would take me five to do that at the same time scale.

2:31:26

I couldn't physically do it.

And I bet Will's best drummer cannot aperture him out. 20 while, right?

That way, again, it just highlights just the fact that this is not typical noise.

It's not typical sound.

It's not behaving in a way that is Is typical of other recorded ordinary sound.

2:31:47

And I think if you look at it from the perspective of the family or the investigator who's experiencing it, whoever is in the property at the time.

It explains why so unnerving.

Because again, our ears, we, we hear things in certain ways where you used to being able to identify where sound is coming from, because of the way that sounds, you know, sounds travel.

2:32:10

So it's really unnerving, when it's, when it's difficult to Understand and be able to identify from which direction that noise is coming from.

And that's because of this, the nature of the fact that this sound is not behaving in the way that it typically should.

2:32:27

And again, it's just that whole picture of you can see why it's so disturbing.

Well, you can see why it's not normal sound, it's not behaving in the way that it should, and I think it's that perfect correlation that helps to show that relationship.

And how that can then be felt for the person experiencing it.

2:32:46

It's unnerving.

When you don't know where something is coming from.

Yeah.

Because Nick turbo, he was at the property the night before the fire isn't it tells her father colleague, correspondence case, committee SBR.

2:33:01

So he was on the on the 13th because of the family going on, on holiday, on the sunlight.

Um, we were moving back in the nine days.

Till now while Nick was not just so he's interviewing the lady together would get in the control of the cameras.

2:33:28

Back when the family went to holidays because we needed the cameras.

So Nick is actually experience that now, when I spoke to me, said exactly the same thing he said, I think he was coming from the television area, but I'm not sure, but because the television was on, but the volume was was right on mute.

2:33:51

He said, I'm pretty comedy.

It wasn't that coming to someone's coming from the TV?

But because I could see the TV on that's what my brain told me.

That's where there is coming from.

And we've actually now got that that video and what you see his neck that looking around speaking to Lady.

2:34:10

Can you hear that?

Yeah, that was coming up.

He couldn't specify and that's something that happened to Nickel, he'd never experienced it before, and Teddy's ultimately strange, because I can hear something but I don't know where it's coming from.

2:34:28

That now, that is bizarre.

So we we have got third party validation.

As far as the house is concerned.

We never experienced any wrapping well, without the six days in 2023, but I've got literally got hundreds of videos.

2:34:45

CCTV videos were connected through You know, I know he's in the house.

I know where they all are.

They weren't doing it.

Then, I mean, I look at the frequency, I can actually see that, I know what that is and where it gets even stranger, is a, you mentioned yourself, you have a sound and you met me will tell you what you think that is.

2:35:07

So if you hear a squeak that's a car great in our, it's a car driving past, always a bird or whatever, motorbike going to come to lattice stages the case.

Before the fire, where there are three loud Rap bang songs. when I listen to on the headphones, the all sounded differently.

2:35:34

Yet the frequency is practically identical.

I can't explain that and I'm showing for the people.

You explain that because I've been around so long, I can just see a frequency and I can tell you if it is generally what's caused, you know, even though to animals birds and so on and so forth, a lot to some money over the years.

2:36:00

But I don't have an explanation where you get three separate sounds.

Look identical on the frequency.

Yes.

Sound very very different.

And last couple of months of the case of suggested to the female householder is when you hear.

2:36:17

The wrapping now is almost if we start dealing with some more, it just about to formulate words, if that makes sense. so, when you spin that into the case is Enfield, whether experience and Large amounts of wrapping is quite a famous BBC. 2, Radio, 2 Benton.

2:36:40

And we carded the wrapping as well.

He started to dry up and then we would replace with other phenomena such as the voice of of Bill Wilkins.

So I've always wondered If these wrappings are genuinely spiritual, the has to be a reason why that.

2:37:01

So, what to significant of the wrap in I I don't know.

So I think we've got to look at.

Why is it the dry?

Oh.

And then it's replaced by other phenomena, it's a real strange.

2:37:17

One very typical to comprehend really And again.

Interesting that you do have in this case, other other voice phenomena like the mimicry that you were talking about.

And again it's are there patterns are their correlations over time with that have played out in certain ways.

2:37:35

It's all part of that investigation process that makes this case.

Very interesting like you mentioned when you see similar things with other other cases like Enfield, Yeah, he you know, I spent literally to the computer H&M probably there about one, two o'clock, not to know, do nothing but this case.

2:37:59

So I would spend might be an hour or two hours on one piece of 10, second footage on a rat.

Just trying to run to start and make sense of it and then rolled in on to the others.

So where you've got general, not some bangs.

You know that she found from the property which she couldn't You see them reacting.

2:38:20

I would expect them to say, certainly The house is quiet and you get this.

This quick wrap inside bang.

Ah, now, why is it there so different?

so, one day, we might be able to get closer to the understanding of the, the wrapping because they have to be significant because most cases doesn't matter if it's a general aren't in our policy, but that mother people before wraps bangs thoughts You know even footsteps get because reporting very very hot.

2:38:59

Now are the full footsteps being missing interpreted, does it sound like footsteps?

I was just something else completely, you know?

See Mandela question Mary.

It is an and I think again, something that you hit home on earlier is just the sheer volume that you've got here.

2:39:17

Like everything there are some aspects of phenomena that Does seem to be on a high level, you know, you've got these high numbers of wraps and bangs.

You've Got High numbers of electrical phenomena that you've talked about which again is really interesting because, you know, its it's it's so vary from, you know, the washing machine light Kettle, the TV, you've got this whole range that again throws up so many different questions and thoughts.

2:39:48

And are hard to explain makes them very unique for this case.

Right at the beginning.

One of the things that was kind of odd that will it was part scary.

2:40:05

Bearing in mind, we didn't actually know what was going on at the time we used to get a lot queen's throne and in four heart and excess of 480 to 500.

I think that I've actually given to the spr that in their archives, they would just come out of nowhere.

2:40:21

I'd be washing up.

I'd have coins thrown at me.

You'd be walking in the hallway.

You'd have a queen throwing it.

You and I even at one point, I literally went through the whole house to cause a change at the house, the kitties Kitty Banks and yet these coins were still coming.

2:40:37

And obviously, that, that is not what he's going on.

That obviously we couldn't work out what that was because he doesn't make those things and there was all so annoyed.

When me and my tween's room baby my bedroom and we was having coins for only in the corner of the room for four hours.

2:40:55

We was just sitting there scratching, I hate not working out what's going Own because at a time you see but I wasn't processing.

It is, it was very strange.

Yeah, the towns itself we You know, before we got involved the house, had something like 500 coins supported into the property over a period of five an hour years.

2:41:21

From the October of 2022 to date.

We've had just 57 Why did they dry up?

We also got done about five, six months into the code.

2:41:37

This unusual TV Behavior, initially full volume child changer and so for Paul to remote control fault with that.

Well, it's over. 500, you know, of remote control shouldn't really change channels, of the switch TV off, I'll put it just to Full volume.

2:42:01

So.

I think any investigator looking at that.

We'll look at the TV is deeply suspicious and suggested for.

However when we started to point cameras at the particular living room into art, the TV What we found out was.

2:42:23

If you use a remote control for they turn the volume up from zero to maximum.

Are you used an app?

I'll use Alexa.

What happens is the minute you press a try that, a little fader would come on the TV clearly.

2:42:41

And then you see it, Go 10, 20 30, 40 which to 100% in all circumstances, the ones that we captured where he's just spontaneous and we haven't got an explanation for You don't see that he just goes from zero.

2:42:57

Full volume.

No fader.

Nothing on the television at all. so we've got a few of them which is more suggestive of something unusual came in rather fraud that I behaved and he's literally hundreds of events up in because not too many Williams had recently like that, if you got a hundred, Events.

2:43:24

Occurred in a property on one of them you can say with 100% certainty.

This is General genuine paranormal.

That's proof of that's all the proof you need because what we are saying is something bizarre, is he can, in fact happen, there are, I mean, just to put it into context for maybe to help with the people listening.

2:43:45

I mean, some of the other the phenomena that you've experienced and had documented here with the television are the speed with which it's able to create a message on the screen.

And again, I think it helps to kind of allow people to understand exactly how unusual this phenomena is like, yes, we're saying about the volume going up, you don't see that fade a bar, you know if could you maybe just put that into context.

2:44:13

So again it helps people listening to understand the unusual nature of this in terms of how quickly someone would have to type in a message with their, you know, remote control in order to replicate what you're observing here in seeing and the family reporting and their CCTV are capturing.

2:44:29

Because the case, you know, it's we've had it for two hours.

Yeah, it's a It's five nights before we got all.

But so what people do is when they first seek you, when I'm working with groups, if it's if it's the sphere, I would probably 12, 16 people in total have been involved with the case.

2:44:52

People will naturally become too much.

Manual, some will become judge or that's crucial.

I will make you give them a piece of evidence and they'll make it, Ah, that's a complete nonsense that is fraud or, you know, It's very difficult with some phenomenal.

2:45:08

Support it to remain.

Open minded can be a challenge.

So, the TV behaves in two different ways one.

It would either go to full volume.

Change channels.

Switch on and off.

2:45:25

The other way.

So that, that occurred about five months into the coast What then happened after three or four months is the search engine started to be recorded.

So he's found the TV change channels and so on. there is an element of Potential, electronic file, some sort of contamination.

2:45:48

Some next, on a neighbor with some fancy.

You know, high powered remote control.

I don't know, you know, because we did look at remote controls.

I mean, all the if we disappeared out the room for him, We you know, you lose a signal.

Plus we have the advantage of the cameras.

2:46:04

So if the television ever must be a, I've got nine cameras in the property.

I know where everyone is and they're not doing anything like given time.

The strange one about the search engine.

Is it's only two things at this.

2:46:20

One of the other one is Absolute Total fraud.

Oh, it's genuine.

So what they're starting to is that the search engine began to suddenly come up at the top, see the search engine arrived and excited, right?

Things?

2:46:35

And it's far as the six, six six with concerning.

Never did for 6:30 to 7, 9 or 12.

It never wrote six six, but it would write multiple Sexes.

Another one, it was all comment, demon named everyone's familiar with you.

2:46:52

What's going to churches?

That then brings in the elements of Doubt of people begin to come.

Judge, mental Fitness likewise with the swear words.

Somebody died, suicide, die killed and so on is multiple, swear words.

2:47:12

And one occasion, it was nine letters all in one. so, There are three words within them nine, letters with no gaps in between.

Now.

We'll catch you this on TV on the city TV.

2:47:31

And you see the search bar come up and that was it within a second?

All time, nine letters of When you get the remote control and unless someone, when you listen, give me some other way of dealing with that, you get your remote control and I want to write those.

2:47:51

Not saying nine letters.

I have to passport and the other people comes upon it.

I have to move little hours away.

Oh, down left and right and select each letter in turn.

2:48:07

Fit to go into the same search bar.

It took 36 seconds.

Oh, does that right there in a couple of seconds.

We don't haven't got no explanation for it and we've never been able to explain our way.

So anyone thinking it's somebody with a remote control or Alexa are some fancy ah, on a mobile phone, the only way you can do it Is by simply bring it up that keyboard on the TV.

2:48:36

I'm moving the cursor around to select the letter and we've never been able to find our, this is for that's been done.

I can't even type that quickly on a device like an iPad or a phone.

And I am so quick, you know, people laugh at me because I'm so quick at typing in a message.

2:48:57

But I can't even replicate that kind of speed on a on a handheld device where it's much more instinctive and easy to navigate.

I don't know how it's possible to do that on a television.

I've tried, I tried number of times to do it.

Yeah, cuz what we do with things like about is you get to us.

2:49:16

So, look at the 222, Well then, get that one of the householders to go in front of the city TV with the remote control.

And show me exactly how that's done compared side by side.

We don't just look at the he's being Ah that's an album.

2:49:34

He just was spent considerable amount of time.

Looking a piece of evidence to find out.

I'll turn it.

And some of the videos at the podcast have done over the last year, so they're on, they're on YouTube.

I've been contacted by multiple people over the last year as a Towing in different ideas but bodies haven't been able to come up with a way.

2:49:59

Of how this can be done.

We know it wasn't into the Wi-Fi.

It's been disconnected.

We know.

You know, for lease Alexa is, he's somehow you and adapted to change to write something in the search bar, the TV was disconnected.

2:50:19

From any device.

You may be shocked because we are access to the White Fire.

The easiest way to exclude our disclude, The great difficulty art is trying to find.

Any reason why this occurred.

2:50:35

And, because with the TV writing, It could be fared.

Oh January because no one would write nine sixes and all swear.

He swear word.

Oh kill you're gonna die.

2:50:51

Doctor putting in search engine.

Super strange and literally 6700 separate events on this don't know, but it's the one it did lose the credibility.

Michelle throughout people that got introduced into the case, later would be come to a chemical became suspicious, but you can only be suspicious if you've got the evidence that supports it and we never were able to resolve.

2:51:19

That one because no one would have been loved it more than I would have done to resolve that particular issue.

I don't know.

You know, it's maybe you listen in, I'm not that technical on TVs.

I don't watch TV.

2:51:37

My able to offer some alternative which invade please.

So, here about but I think it fits into this broader pattern and broadened broader picture of that.

This is some this is a property where there is a range of strange electronic you know electronical electrical phenomena and, There has been a number of different things that have been looked at and explored.

2:52:02

To try and understand to rule out.

What may be disrupting that particular device, whether it is the kettle, the television, the washing machine, whatever it is, you know, it's not being something that has just been instantly considered as well.

2:52:18

That's paranormal.

These logical explanations.

These tests have been done these thoughts, these, these different hypotheses have been attached to these to try and rule out explanations for what is occurring.

But the fact that there are so many strange electrical phenomena experiences, is again, just another pattern to this house that Is still as of yet, unexplained.

2:52:44

Yeah, if you look at the kinds themselves, you know, in total there's 500 around about 500 coins.

There's no, Common.

Occurrence without dates are definitely the one piece, two piece.

2:53:01

Different dates is nothing that without then.

We've had 507 cents now.

What we're able to do. last year, where is within two and a half hours of the family, coming back from holiday, the male occupant got hit and the I buy a flying ported one pence coin, Now, we really fought with this one because we've got three.

2:53:27

We just recently changed the cameras, and one to three, much higher quality one.

It's technology.

She's about these three cameras were able to look up.

So, what we were able to on a rare occasion is completely exclude frog.

2:53:47

Nobody could have thrown that coin which is what is being suggested about the ones that year a tinkle on the on the camera.

And so my goals are kind here.

You know, people say someone else is thrown at this one we completely relaxed with all the cameras.

2:54:06

And when we mapped the trajectory the client it seems to just manifest a mid-air, you don't see it until about 8 to 10 inches away from the male householders face it in the face.

2:54:22

Falls to the right onto the edge of the carpet of the of the Stars.

Still have sufficient velocity to go upwards because then you see on the camera slow down its traveling.

Oh it's just in a salaried and then the camera on the living room, picks it all coming from a completely different direction.

2:54:44

A woman, she died out that comes to 65 feet.

And it sit the Mason house is face it.

The cap at the bottom of the Stars.

He said the floor and the living room, and then rolled about 20 feet, and a circular bounced up.

2:55:04

A big thing because I would just eliminate floors about an inch cap.

I'm so So we had unlocked natural speed, it never seen to slow down.

This is one pence.

Cayenne and an incredibly unusual, its trajectory And my son thought was going bad came down to, we do.

2:55:27

I mean the department, we started throwing kind.

It me.

But when we started and best, I could go, is it the carpet at the stars and go about a foot drop on the floor?

I never could get it trouble that started.

2:55:43

I'll catch it on CCTV so that to me, if it got anything from this cage, which is the whole grain of evidence that the Skeptics will not be able ever to suggest otherwise is a genuine event, which completely unexplainable, which when you look at this as maybe wouldn't himself Hunters acai in, which is suggestive or maybe someone simply through his father to something, which is the ultimate one.

2:56:17

And we let she spent four days on that one.

Up and all the way to and extraordinary event.

And I think if I had one of them in all my life time is an investigate, a big delighted.

And I've got it.

I've got and I think you've seen itself, I'm here.

2:56:34

So you I have an it for me again, it just kind of fits into this.

This strange category.

Again, I mean, we've talked about sounds that aren't talking sounds that aren't kind of operating in the way that they should.

We've got devices that aren't operating in the way that they should.

2:56:52

That have been explored here.

We've got movement of things that aren't aren't traveling in the way that they should in terms of the speed, the trajectory we've got objects, being moved in quite unusual ways, that require a huge amounts of force.

2:57:09

You know, when thinking about the champagne bottle, the the candle that you've talked about earlier these on these aren't usual typical things and they are defying are normal kind of parameters of what we expect when it comes to science.

2:57:25

What we know about the world around us and that's again, what makes this case.

So unusual, I think.

Yeah, I think we really fast that we are to.

A family that is totally turned to the did everything.

Of all the years you know we talk we're talking it was young cameras inside to cameras outside.

2:57:49

This place is under 24 hours of 65 days.

On.

We never ever had anything of a Smoking Gun as far as father is concerned.

The unusual because it never really had a pattern.

2:58:10

Michelle is really difficult.

You seem to lock onto a pattern such as in the Living room.

There's a small window probably about two foot be.

When I for and on, there were to these what they call Yankee Candles.

2:58:27

She's not these high-end candles one.

What is so?

These three one, one left right and Center.

One of them came off.

I, this is when I was on the phone to the lady, clear this Bang.

Now, when we were there with in, in the summer, candles is still alive.

2:58:47

On these Dr. Crane curd from The Spar together.

We jump Fraser from Edward day with our and grandkid asked about the the candle and he was able to pick it up, take it off the window only to hold us and to show him where it where it ended up 25 foot away.

2:59:07

He said absolutely no way could that have been blown or stuck from like somebody from outside that with the kitchen that are blowing the candle and it traveled that distance and this white thing probably weighed about key.

2:59:24

And I have likewise some weeks after the same window, the mud and suddenly put camera like disappeared, it starts up to know in some other room.

It was catch here.

Off camera, you put a camera on the window, light pointed to him that to the right or to the left.

2:59:42

So you move the camera.

It always up and I've come back then.

This happened after the return from the holiday.

So this would be June 20th hours like the mentioned about the current icon his face.

3:00:02

As I'm on the phone with a lady, I say, look, can you go in the living room?

And have a look to see if you can find the the client?

Because we weren't sure if it's a single or multiple coin event.

So as she's doing that, yeah, this Bang.

3:00:19

So so what was not just going into kitchen?

So on the camera when she sent it to us, what you say is. a large bottle of Like bath salt, probably about two liter bottle of some heavy weight.

3:00:34

It's on the kitchen surface.

It's on the floor.

But when you look at this HVB, it actually shoots up in the air, I'd say about 14 inches upwards and then asked to the to the left and falls on the floor.

3:00:50

He didn't just like fall over and followed the floor, he gets projected into the into the into the nobody is in the kitchen on the camera.

You can see it's no one that we don't have an answer for that either. so, The more we looked at the case, particularly helped by the side to be just a so many comments are eventually.

3:01:17

It becomes.

Almost the ways.

I heard, it's become more blatant.

Because I often wondered why it was difficult to capture the Poltergeist artist's most active.

Is it because it doesn't want to be observed and the worst certain age.

3:01:35

It's certainly for the first 16 months that I think it's not an event about the last six months.

If you come up, it is almost didn't, it didn't care.

The reason why we were able to get these absolutely fascinating and compelling videos of Its Behavior.

3:01:52

What we then can touch upon and what we kind of see after that.

I mean you just reference this escalation in the last six months but of course the family of all.

So had a really, you know, sizeable incident.

You know significant thing that happened to the house and themselves as an update, do you want to just explain to the listeners briefly what happened for the family more recently?

3:02:16

And obviously what they've been going through since the family of I think the date was the 8th of time but 20224 And with a range that the family way for a love in days.

So in nine days in Morocco, A foul myself and Nick told any SBR, we're going to move it and but we actually going to move in for 11 days.

3:02:43

And the reason for that is we're going to say there for two additional days from the families returned when the kids were then going to be taking to to grandparents estate.

Because we don't move into property if there's any wrong under 18.

That's reason why that was done.

3:02:59

And it's because every time the family had gone on holiday, there's several things that about six or seven times been on holiday.

Something always happened when they returned.

They in 2023, when we were there, the family back in the house of about an hour or so, we're actually in the guard and caring together, the female and male house older.

3:03:26

In the, in the car and a cup of tea, on the television, went to football volume, tickly female Shekinah.

We're fighting when we come back from holiday.

So what you decide to do?

We're going to say that for the final today so we don't put any investigation together.

3:03:44

The spa will begin some more purpose-built equipment.

And I'm going to spend 11 days, we just wow, period.

And that was all Planned.

3:04:01

The family going on holiday on a Sunday afternoon, so on Thursday before other range for Nick tarle.

To drop by and take control of the canvas.

Because what Jeremy happened is initially, we had five cameras, which were living room.

3:04:20

Kitchen, hallways, and so on.

They're fine.

You know, we can we can look up to them but when they started to put cameras into bedrooms, we can't go down like one.

So what are you actually happening on the canvas?

3:04:36

Then come over to the family, they control them.

So they say for example I was in bed this night on her head, wrap him, he's up to them, to sanitize the video and send the one to us.

The Epic side about it.

3:04:51

She's got to go along with it, but now I got investigated staying at the property for nine days and nights.

We need control the cameras because we're saying, and I'm saying bedroom.

So, Long story short, Nick towels job on that Thursday.

3:05:08

This is a toned and take control of the cameras.

This is when he experienced the rapid.

That was Thursday, I've sent four or five thousand pounds worth equipment to write that that was with Karen and Nick towel, everyone's gonna arrive Sunday night to State the property for that period.

3:05:30

Then around about 7:30 on the Friday morning, the lady was with the one of the artists in the kitchen.

And decided that she needed to get a couple more tops.

3:05:46

So getting ready, packing up, ready for the holiday goes up stairs into the what we call bedroom 2.

And as she putting some tops in a case, she looks to left and what she said.

3:06:02

I could see flame on top of the clothing.

Quite strong flame.

So she she ran to the Top back through him but son he's in the shower.

So she ran down south to get a book.

3:06:18

Okay, we saw some water.

I'm ran backwards start by the time she got Sentosa, the fire is escalated.

So what she said, then did to the common sense, I think was to get the data to something about together with the son, who's in a shower.

3:06:35

Out of the property.

And the fire took hold and well, within six minutes, the top windows were blowing out fire brigade arrived.

But by that stage, the house is practically destroyed.

3:06:51

There's nothing left over at all.

So when I got up on the Friday and then see the messages from what actually happened to the property, the difficulty we have.

And then after he picked me words, incredibly careful.

Yeah.

He's, my job is, is to be poor what I'm told or what a seat and we didn't have any CCTV corporate for those.

3:07:18

Because obviously by that stage, they're like chicks were anyway.

The city's vehicle would come up later.

So bet you two is where the fire was set to started.

Now the lady occupied so he started on top of the clothing.

3:07:33

So these are like large building watch out and she's like, anybody don't just hang stuff for, he put clothes on the bottom, as well pile.

Close up.

So they were probably about two foot in height and then you've got the clothes rights where the clothes were hung up.

3:07:52

She maintained that was where the fire was, that's where it started.

Now.

I know for my time for working for the police, any fire such as the will result in a police presence and they were secured the property qualify investigators.

See if there's any possibility of ass and occurring so they're looking for things like excellent.

3:08:13

So on The five reports we completely accidental the fire did start from in the wardrobe.

Now, what they did find because of I think you've seen pictures of the damage.

So it is nothing.

3:08:30

Left is a complete, his side.

What they were able to find the remnants what they thought was a lighter, one of these disposable lighters.

So there was easy possible.

The light of fell into the wrong of the larger doors, he sang clothes or something, and it's called some sort of explosion and that's what started the fire. however, What the female occupant says that wasn't the case, she didn't start on the floor area, he started on top of the clothing.

3:09:06

That's where the fire was.

Now, that takes any investigator into comfortable territory.

Oh, how can I suggest that the Poltergeist started the fire?

So I've taken probably a cow's way of remaining fixed on the top of the front, the middle of the fence.

3:09:26

I don't really have an opinion on this one because I wasn't there.

I didn't witness it.

I've got absolutely no reason to question the ladies integrity.

When the family returned from holiday.

3:09:43

Some weeks after they moved out into different properties.

At this time, it tell went down and he wants to take a more detail opinion.

In Nixon words what he said, his Before I did the interview with the family, I was 50 50.

3:10:04

When he interviewed family, particularly the lady. she said that, he said that he was more 60, 40 in favor so that leaves us in this unusual area of What card fire?

3:10:23

I have got the fire report.

There's nothing special.

He agreed that their main source of the fire was the Wardrobe.

The problem is, was it a disposable lighter?

Are is there something utterly bizarre?

3:10:39

Now, when I spoke to the lady, she is of the opinion.

That it's purely paranormal, the Poltergeist, Set Fire to the house.

That's a big jump for any investigator to go down.

And I'm not going to be one of them.

3:10:55

However, when You tiger pots is the column, incredibly?

Certainly quite common in more to countries to be some white.

People say they have more pyro participating politicize in hot countries India and another one climbers because of the Africa we don't have an awful lot in this country to actually go on and I really don't know what the it being possible for us to Get the answer.

3:11:32

What we have got now is the memory cards from the fire, the the candidate, but the memory card do we subdue?

The family of Supply to it.

So we can actually see the full process of the, the five and initial ignition and The Artful trauma of the evacuation.

3:11:56

So I think incredibly disturbing to watch.

You can imagine I really don't know what the answer is with this Michelle to because it's a really difficult discussion for me to have.

I have to be transpired reason why we were doing this podcast in the first place.

3:12:16

And what I said is, is how it is, how it's been told and how, I don't know, you know what the ultimate answer is but it's just scary feeling.

Now what?

I did offer to the family is where their suggest, and that the fire was started to let me buy the Poltergeist.

3:12:38

He's one uncle What I could suggest is another right part of.

This is a when I asked him in the A kitchen with your Dart of about an hour and a half.

What made you?

Leave that at that point?

And she said, well, she won't get a cup of tops for take put in the remembered about them.

3:12:56

If this was genuinely power and armor, What's there for is the possibility of the lady, being persuaded to go as Dad to actually capture.

See the fire to respond to it to then Evacuate the home. because when you look at the video from her initially screaming, you can ever on a video, Two minutes.

3:13:22

All that house top of the house.

He's got it.

Two minutes.

She's just saying that kitchen.

Two minutes more and something.

Accidentally locked in the in bedroom two, then two children would have been trapped, That's the scary bit he said.

3:13:38

And you know, That's how tight that time scale.

It is incredibly disturbing story.

Yes, I actually happened, you know. it is, but I think you just were able to give very two plausible, things, one that is more unsettling and one which really does Paint a very different picture possibly, which I think would have been very comforting. if, you know, if you can lean in more to that rather than always thinking something negative, maybe this was a Something good, you know, good sign a good little nudge somewhere.

3:14:17

Who knows?

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Well, the house was completely destroyed so Yes.

But with 12 to 18 months before you can actually be Bill there.

So the family then moved into a four bedroom Bungalow about 10 miles away.

3:14:37

They'll never return back to this property.

The house will be refurbished of no don't about and it's another bizarre case where we have in got any answers for this.

3:14:54

How did you become involved with this case?

Then Nick what were your initial thoughts upon hearing about the experiences that were reported at the house?

So um the SCC meetings would take place every six weeks and and Tony Hayes was a gentleman applied to join the SEC group and he has been leading the case for some time.

3:15:18

But they have been mentions in the meetings about about the case and and they happened to mention where it was.

So I thought Blimey that's quite close to me.

And anyway when when Tony eventually joined more and more details came through about the particular about the case and what was going on, I thought this sounds incredible this, this sounds literally like an Enfield, you know, something that kind of size and I thought I hope to be involved.

3:15:47

But of course you know one of those things you can't you hoping and being asked for two different things but I think my enthusiasm because I'm like to do field investigations came across and there are so cool which helps and and Tony and I think Tony was happy the way I spoke about investigations and he asked me if I'd be interested in coming on board, and of course, once I've been giving information about what was going on in the house.

3:16:20

I thought my God.

Absolutely you know and and as soon as I started to see the reports I thought There's something seriously going on here.

And yeah, that's basically how I got invited into it and And this took place probably about September time of last year.

3:16:39

But yeah, that's kind of how it came about really.

But by pretty much by chance, very fortunate, I had, I had been mentioned about this case occasion, the SBR conferences and but I didn't really ask about it.

3:16:55

And, and it's one of those things you think this probably not my place to sort of ask even though I was intrigued and when they said where it was, I thought.

Oh my gosh, I'd like to be involved.

Anyway, it's one of those things just wasn't the right time, for, whatever reason, and, and fortunately, sort of coming into August September of last year.

3:17:13

It became the right time.

So that's how it kind of came about. so, when you first became involved and were able to visit the house, what we were initial Impressions and thoughts when you stepped into the property, did you know anything?

3:17:28

Stand out will come to my mind while she was there?

Absolutely nothing completely normal house.

Lovely people.

Happy atmosphere.

I would not Associate any of the activity?

They are that what is being documented by Tony and Kieran and yep, nothing untoward, the lady, who met me, extremely friendly and introduced to a partner and and spoke to both of them for, you know, for a banana and 10 minutes.

3:18:03

I'm literally only had the one meeting.

In the house or as it turns out, this turned out to be a very significant meeting but, but yeah, absolutely nothing.

You would not.

There was no atmosphere.

I mean, I'm not sensitive like that but there was not literally, now nothing that I would say.

3:18:19

All my goodness, I don't want to be here.

Ordinary house, you know.

Nice so nice.

People friendly welcoming atmosphere.

Would not associate any of the activity by just me walking into the house.

It just seemed completely calm and and a lovely environment bicycling.

3:18:40

So could you maybe walk us through then that significant first visit, you know, the events of what happened then and obviously, unfolded subsequently that that first initial chat and visit to the house.

3:18:57

Yeah, absolutely.

So that the purpose of the visit was to go around and obtain key codes, both your passwords.

I had to annoying camera setup in the house and the idea was for me to collect the camera carries because at this point here and I myself were going to go around to the house.

3:19:16

I think Karen was going to stay there for probably the entire time that the family or why about 12 or 13 days?

My plan was to.

Come around in the evening and stay a guy visit every every single evening.

3:19:34

But I plan to stay around, I think on three or four nights, but having the key having the access to the cameras, would obviously meet allow me to look at any activity that Kieran mentioned or something that you know, just by casual observation, we picked up on and then I could document whatever whatever was seen on the camera space.

3:19:56

So my role was literally to go around there and pick these these codes up and, and the lady, you know?

So yeah, what I'll do is, I'll wait around on the first and she said, oh, I'll give you the key codes for one.

3:20:13

So I think on the Friday and then another set for on the sassy and they And myself were planning to go in, on the Sunday.

Basically, and that was the thing.

And so anyway, so but while we were visiting what I'm talking to her, she has to television on the background and A probably about 40 minutes in 3540 minutes in.

3:20:38

I hear what you would call a wrapping sound.

And I look to see where it came from.

The sound, I felt was opposite me on the opposite wall, but the television was on.

So I wasn't sure whether it was a tea, the television happened to be, you know, a scene where there was knocking at the door or or, or not basically, but I meant when I mention it to the lady concern, she just sort of ignore not ignored it, but she sort of, you know, didn't really react as if this is quite normal.

3:21:10

I don't think it was normal because I quite clearly heard that this sound, this wrapping sound, and I know this is been recalled, and I think I'm not sure of a time.

He's on the actual, the particular sound.

I know you can test to see the why you've Links of a rapping sound, how it's calls whether it's from internal sound, or An external sale.

3:21:34

So there is different ways to measure to read with the sound came from.

So but yeah, that that caught me off guard, but it wasn't out, you know, by all of the events that have been happening in the house, it wasn't particularly out of the ordinary.

I don't think and hence, why the lady of the house, didn't particularly react?

3:21:53

So I don't know.

I, I thought it was it could have been the television as to say because it wasn't investigated and I didn't have my investigations hat on which I feel bad for I should have just asked.

So can you rewind the TV?

Just to see if there was a knock on the actual, on the, on the television, but it didn't.

3:22:10

So I don't know conclusively.

If it was a tapping sound or not, but I certainly at the time thought, I've heard that that seems and I don't remember it.

I remember looking around at the television and he wasn't sure whether it fitted in with the scene.

There was, there was, you know, there was phases, sort of, they looked like they were listening to something.

3:22:30

So I don't know whether it was part of that particular scene or not, but, but yeah, I stupidly should have said why.

Please pause the tape.

Can we go back?

But at the time, we've been talking very naturally and casually about what had been going on in a very friendly way.

And a very Mass Effect, why?

3:22:47

I meant the lady before she comes to the house and drops off drops off some cameras before to me, so we won't complete strangers.

But, you know, it was, it was good to hear.

What been happening and a partner was going through some of the details that happened to him.

And I thought this is incredible, you know, and these people having to deal with this.

3:23:05

So very matter of fact, conversation and I think I left, you know, got there about quarter to eight ten to eight and I left about five past nine, something like that and that was the end of that particular meeting.

So you obviously mentioned, you know, this wrapping, which at the time, you you kind of acknowledged but it was just something that the family would weren't, particularly reacting to was just something that was at part of their everyday experience.

3:23:32

If you like, was any of that captured on the CCTV, Dino, because of the, you've got the recordings set up in the house itself.

Did any of that managed to get captured?

Yeah, I mean, I don't remember the sound dude.

Certainly the pictures certainly got caught.

3:23:47

Um, there's definitely me looking real and Science.

Something to the lady and yeah, so that's absolutely there on film.

So I don't know if I Don't know whether I can't remember where the sound was caught on it or not, um, I think it probably was, but I haven't heard the Audio.

3:24:07

I just remember seeing the pictures since in the picture.

I think I played it at work actually.

So that's why I did have the audio on.

But but yes.

So 100%.

That is we definitely have that.

There's that one of the that's one of the cameras that survived survived and and yes so that that was that's that's definitely there that that my reaction that her reaction, very casual, it definitely definitely on film.

3:24:35

And you kind of mentioned earlier, you touched upon the fact that this is quite a key key meeting in a key date because of what obviously happens.

Next.

Yeah, do you want to just walk us through?

What happened next?

And the next day?

You know, when you learned about what had happened, after your meeting the night before, Yeah, sure.

3:24:56

I mean, I think Tony sent Text.

Are not sure the time of it.

I want to say it's probably about 7:30.

In the morning. and, It just basically.

So the house is called, fire, the family.

3:25:14

I don't know, too many other details at the moment.

I can't every city.

He spoke to the lady of the house or not.

But Once I read that, I was absolutely mortified. because you immediately go to this feeling of, you know, if you're going to believe in Paranormal Activity, if you're going to go kind of believe in the Poltergeist you're going to believe that they are capable of listening that are capable of acting and reacting, and My thought was my god.

3:25:47

What have I said?

That's prompted this reaction?

Is this on me?

And I felt absolutely terrible.

When I remember.

Sort of trying to look at it.

I think I was looking at it again at work and I was shaking because I thought this is, this is on me and I was but I was sure.

3:26:04

I hadn't said anything, you know, that anything else alive, you know, as a very matter of fact come.

So, you know, you know, you talked that she said about the the apports and the water appearing and shadows appearing and all this kind of activity, like, oh, come with goodness, that's quite serious.

3:26:22

You know.

I'm, you know, how do you put up with that?

I want another thing she was saying and I just signed, you know, taking it on board as if I was interviewing her kind of thing really, which I wasn't at that time and it just absolutely, you know, us?

So I just felt terrible.

3:26:38

I, it was as if you know, that that Poltergeist, that entity It's all right, you should have kept, you know, your your family, you're leaving the house or how can I punish you, this is how we're going to punish you.

We're going to burn your, your house down, you know?

3:26:55

And and and I thought, as to say, if I had had any involvement in that, that honestly, you can't believe that that how Bad, that makes you feel because ultimately, you know, somebody could have been injured, somebody could, it could have been killed.

I mean it's bad enough.

3:27:11

Having, you know, you house, you know burnt down but it was honestly it was it was terrible moment for me really was and and you know I was very concerned because you know that weight of guilt I was on me But I've seen since spoken to the lady concerned and she sort of kind of laughed off, you know, no, you know, don't be silly.

3:27:34

Kind of thing really sure, which I was very grateful for but but at the time yeah it that was more action.

Was absolutely mortified.

There anything from that, you know, walk around the previous night that discussion the previous night that sparked some concerned that something like that could happen in the next day, just looking back.

3:27:54

In hindsight.

Was there anything out of the ordinary that he thought?

This might, this could have been it.

This could have been something that calls this I think that in the notes that Tony had been recording here and have been recording, a lot of the activity seemed to ramp up.

3:28:11

Just before they went, the family would go away and just before they would return.

And one of the key moments that I that Happen.

I think I don't know if it's might have been last year, what?

Sorry last year the year before big apartment where they were planning to go on holiday and and that's 6:30 in the morning, all the cabinets in the kitchen, have all been pulled off the wall and this is clearly seeing on on on the camera.

3:28:39

Now, there were two schools of thought, they'd had just had the, the kitchen completely renovated.

But everything's there for, I think, two or three months, something like that. white to fall down the same day that they're all gone and holiday, I don't know, you know, but I think that that was not I guess I kind of didn't expect anything like this kind of reaction, I have to say I was nervous about going around when I heard, you know, when you when, when you told some of the things that happened to to Tony and caring, when they've been around there, now, not terrible things but still things that are Difficult to explain.

3:29:15

And I envision myself, you know, going off to the Loo at four oclock in the morning thinking, you know, what's going to happen to me?

Are they going to be waiting for me in the bathroom or something?

You know, your mind starts to play a little bit more, a little bit more dramatic, but it was, it was a real, a real concern.

3:29:31

But but now I absolutely no way expects anything that barrier to happen.

Thought, if anything was going to happen and actually the thought was, I think it was generally more happened when the family came back.

So this is a time where Tony wanted both Kirin and myself to be to be there for when they came back.

3:29:50

But of course obviously there was no there was no house to come back to unfortunately at that point but the Family Guy which is a good thing at least so well that were getting they had things happen to them while on holiday but so I guess that's for another another conversation.

But I think what interesting to note that obviously, the reason why you were all gathering at that point was the fact that the family were planning on going away, going away.

3:30:12

And as you touched upon there, this has been, you know, a time previously, when there has been some change in the activity then either before going and and subsequently coming back.

So of course, There had been this great plan for this period to be a time when people were going into investigate.

3:30:32

There were specific plans for specific investigations and bringing in equipment for this purpose to utilize that time when the house was going to be to be empty.

And to see if anything manifested as a result of the fact that the family were away.

3:30:49

And so it is, you know, a terrible set of circumstances that obviously what you have here is a really rather devastating fire at this key critical moment.

Absolutely.

I mean, I mean the what you've just said, is absolutely right.

We had another lot of plans about measuring infrasound, all different types of mushrooms here, play.

3:31:11

And the actual fact, the The the society had actually the S pro actually bought purchased a new piece of equipment called The Wider scope is a 2000 pound piece of Kit which they plan to to use at the house because it had a way of data login.

3:31:29

I don't know the ins and outs of it on this piece of equipment but this was going to give us a measuring device which would show different atmospheric changes.

I believe something along those lines which going to make things a lot harder to challenge.

3:31:47

Really.

I mean at the end of the day, you know, you're going with a piece of equipment and and you hope to get readings from the piece of equipment and and you're relying on, you know, that it's you're not getting a telephone signal or something else into interrupting, you know, or just, you know, you've left your phone on you and you're not putting on AirPlay mode, all these kind of things.

3:32:07

So you've got to get everything right, but that, but the point being is, I think with two of us in there and Kieran being a very Experienced investigator, we would have a good chance to go through and try and get some measurements about about where the hot and cold spots were.

3:32:23

And they were, they were something that I think they worked out.

There was a river, quite close by a lady line. you know there was all these different things that you you believe is an investigator contribute to to the activity that may be, that may be there and obviously it's just a case of trying to prove it and obviously taking equipment in and and using As best as you can methods of the can't really be challenged particularly.

3:32:50

Well, you know, you can't be, you know, I can't be refuted to this, I suppose. this particular piece of equipment, the weirdest scope is I want to say Cutting Edge by the sound of it but the fact is so blooming expensive will give you an idea that he probably does something spectacular.

But We didn't get a chance to use it so I don't know.

3:33:07

You know and it's one of those things that we're excited.

You know I was certainly excited about thinking was more calm because he'd been in the house before but a chance to do a proper investigation, you know.

And I'm not have to worry about the family being there and everything that he or I would experience would you know be either him or myself or or something else?

3:33:33

Creating creating that the same, you know, creating something.

Third term, hopefully that the weirdest scope would pick up on.

So this was, this was the plan and and we you know, we were quite hopeful about it.

We had we can take Fleur camera and, you know, the EMF meters and recording the equipment and everything you want for for a proper investigation to try and recall evidence.

3:33:59

Basically, to show, you know, effectively show the world that, you know, this this stuff does go on and we can prove it, you know, as best as we can with it with, with the science that we use.

And so that was that, I think that was our plan basically.

So after the fire itself, you obviously had the opportunity to interview, the female homeowner at her new Bungalow.

3:34:20

Yes.

You want to just share more about that discussion and how, you know, maybe that discussion.

LED you to consider what happened around the cause of the fire itself?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

No, that's the completely.

So myself, And another guy I went his name is Bill and he came along with me, he was basically a sensitive.

3:34:44

The idea was when we went to the house was for him to see if he could sense anything.

And for that was kind of his side of it, but I was to go through with the lady of the house to go through the whole fire from start to finish.

You know, what happened?

What did she see?

3:35:00

How does she react and how did the family, right?

You know, all the kind of things that, you know, felt I guess probably like, if you were the insurance man, asking, what gone on all the police or something along those lines.

But obviously, from our point of view, We wanted to get a handle on.

3:35:19

How the fire started and effectively what she had experienced, you know?

And so she explained to me that she was in the bedroom upstairs and she had, I Believe by the description, she had a wardrobe, you know, the pools across the doors, pulled across.

3:35:39

So don't open it, but they pull across Paint.

She's there.

She was packing clothing.

I believe she was packing clothing and this is about six o'clock in the morning, and comes back into the room.

And she's, then again starts packing again and she sees a glow and this glow is on top of clothing, jumpers.

3:36:02

I think she said to me and it's the right hand side of the wall drop.

So I think it was about going from what I remember.

She's about halfway up.

And very quickly realizes that's a fire.

Rushes out the door to try and get a bucket of water or something.

3:36:20

To try and dust dust the flying.

And then unfortunately she's taking hold so quickly.

I think then they basically she's just got everybody out the house.

I think.

And I think we've been about six or seven minutes to the windows of blown out of the bedroom.

3:36:39

Sorry, bearing in mind the fire, that's the flying or the Fire or the glowing.

She said to stars in the right hand side when it comes to the investigation by the fire guy who've come back in And they've noticed that there are in the wardrobe.

3:36:58

There were cigarette lighters.

So cigarette, lighters where she's put them in there.

I don't know whether that's just like like collecting, you know, collecting them in an area, you know, little cup or something and they found what they caught, you know, a hot spot.

3:37:14

And this hot spot is down to the bottom left.

So whatever happens at this point, there is a difference between the evidence from the fiber guy who I say evidence.

They've got a hotspot and where the fire is.

3:37:30

Now of course, if the fire has caught it then catches the lights, anything that he can and obviously it would if there's any fluid inside of any the cigarette lighters, which may well have been, They would, of course combust creating a hotspot.

3:37:47

So when I'm being told this information about what's going on and you know, I'm not know why am I querying anything that I'm being told?

But I could not I had no doubt in my mind.

What I was being told was completely factual from what the lady of the house.

3:38:05

It's saying, Sheet.

This is what she saw.

She saw the glowing.

She saw the the fire on the right hand side.

And the evidence, is this, this cigarette lighter or cigarette?

3:38:20

Lighters that have somehow.

And I'm waving in the, in my, in the inverted, commas has caught fire.

Now, the only way I could think that that could possibly call Catch Fire as if The glass if it had been shattered somehow and then you manage to create a spark for pulling the the doors, across on the runner.

3:38:40

I mean, it's possible, I guess, I don't know, but they seems to be too many things that have to happen to make it work, and of course it's such a car.

Instead of time it's happened the day after I've spoken to them and, and two days before they got, you know, they going away.

3:38:58

I mean, it is quite incredible.

I think initially, I think when I heard about it, I thought.

Oh, 40%.

Could be 40% unnatural 60%, natural.

But after speaking to the lady house, I thought, you know what is really difficult to to look somebody in the eye and think that they're telling you something, you know, they're basically, she would know it's her house.

3:39:24

She's been in that bedroom for however many years.

She would know where that fire was coming from.

I don't believe she got that wrong.

Now, I guess what I have to say is I was gonna say, it's it probably was a paranormal thing.

I can't really say that for sure.

Because of that that's maybe going a little bit too far but I don't have a natural explanation for what's called that fire.

3:39:45

I don't I don't know what it what could have done it and I don't know if you know how you would explain it.

I just I just don't know somebody out there might be able to explain why that you know that the term cigarette lighters do combust.

3:40:00

And I actually what I did watch a YouTube video and they can do it is possible but then it's got to catch fire, you know, it's got to ignite everything else that's around it.

And the guy would have been at the bottom of the Wardrobe.

Not, you know, not halfway up so so I, I am.

3:40:17

Yeah, I am, I'm not sitting on the fence of it anymore.

I'm 80% thinking something on natural took place, was it the Poltergeist or the entire whatever you want to call it?

oh, you know you kind of put your head on a chopping block possibly but but honestly, I would say that was more than likely the reason for it happening then A cigarette lighter, a cigarette lighter, ignoring by itself.

3:40:45

I mean, it is a, it's a strange set of circumstances for it to happen.

Then I think that's the question mark over the whole thing.

It's, it's the timing of it and it's also like you said the nature of the description.

Of those that were in terms of what they saw and they experience and how that doesn't necessarily sit with what the fire brigade found and observed as part of their findings.

3:41:09

There does seem to be this disparity that again raises questions.

And I think given the fact that this is a house that has seen so much activity for a number of years.

It's it's again one of those rather interesting and really rather tragic aspects to this to this account of which You know, does raise the question is this part of just the phenomena escalating?

3:41:34

Yeah, I mean that that's that's really Dreadfully.

That's how it seemed.

I think I think if you if you are writing a film script you would definitely finish it on a nice Hammer.

Holly Hammer horror type of fire I mean you would and in all honesty if if I hadn't, if I, you know, if I hadn't seen that seen the photographs that Tony sent to me, I would never have believed it.

3:42:01

I'm believed it because I think this is incredible.

How you know, this would never happen.

Normally all the investigations that you, you know, you read about you.

I mean, there are some very heavy duty things to happen to people.

Lovely.

You know, you and but a fire, a fire of that magnitude, you know, you read about the fact that the people guys will turn gas on and they'll turn the lights on and they'll you know, and they'll try and cause you some some upset, you know, they'll try and test test you as a person.

3:42:33

But this is absolute once and destruction.

If it is indeed you know, the poles are once and destruction almost of its own environment.

You know how strange, it would think this is, you know, you know I'm gonna This is what I'm gonna dish out to you.

3:42:49

You know?

You're gonna you're gonna really feel my Roth you know kind of thing, really?

We're not, we're not support, you're not having the investigation.

I'm not going to let them have an investigation.

They're not going to get close to to what I am.

I mean again this this is Speculation of my part, but you start to you start to question.

3:43:06

You know if you're going to believe believe that something is has got this amount of power to do all the things that had been doing up to this point.

Why couldn't it do this?

Why couldn't it?

You know, I mean we're interested into Realms of science that we just Don't understand, we're trying to, but at the moment, obviously, you know, we don't we don't know what, you know, how this kind of stuff works, but but that's what it felt like, it felt like a little bit of a culmination of, you know, building up to something.

3:43:36

And then this thing showing its it it's it's false if effectively.

And I think it's really important to note that, you know, the family themselves loved this house.

They put a lot of time in effort into this house.

It's a great care to remodel make this this house their home.

3:43:56

And they won't benefiting from this.

They didn't want something like this happened.

They weren't insured.

Which adds to the tragedy.

Yeah.

Um, and so again, it's this really set of awful circumstances for whom You know, you can really see that this is not, you know, you can rule out something here.

3:44:16

That is nefarious on the Family's part 100%.

Um, which again, only raises I think other questions are too well, what I, what exactly did happen then here and I think you have to ask that question a given that, you know what we know about other cases where fire has been involved when it comes to Poltergeist activity.

3:44:36

Yeah, it's it's tragic but it's it's a fascinating aspect that I think for you personally we're kind of Pretty much at a good position there to have witnessed and seen the run-up to this and then the immediate aftermath to have that Viewpoint of the situation.

3:44:57

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I mean you you I mean was not it was not the The ending effectively.

I mean, that I was expecting, of course.

I mean, You know, going to the house and and playing, you know, and obviously that a lot of build up, you know, Tony and a lot of conversation going on about, you know, what, we've got hair was gonna work and what we're going to do and all this kind of stuff and all the Practical elements of it.

3:45:23

And you just thought, right?

Okay, this is it, you know, Sunday.

Will be, will be in the house, that's it.

And and suddenly, this is all, this is all taken away hours is such obviously a minor.

So we're a bit player in the in what's gone down for with the family but, but from from, from from our side, you know, you kind of think that these things could happen and you'll see read about some of the, some of the dramatic things that happen.

3:45:49

But but you don't expect to be not quite the witness to it.

But certainly, you know, feeling like, you know, I was a lot, you know, you almost like the, you know, the the number one suspect in a murder case, you know, you would last person and see them and and you know what happened to think, I mean clearly that's not no one's obviously been murdered here.

3:46:09

But but that's the thing about it and you suddenly, then you are thrust into the into the front line.

Because obviously this hadn't happened all the time.

So this this house has been investigated, you know, the seven or eight years.

I think it's been going on and obviously, which and, you know, monitoring for the last little, you know, 18 months to years, whatever the time period, nothing anywhere has been as dramatic as this is happened.

3:46:32

And yet this suddenly happens.

And, and it's, you know, it shocks you to the cause.

So you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe, if you hadn't, you know, you hadn't Got that text, you know, you hadn't seen the photo of you, just wouldn't believe it happened.

3:46:48

But again, as I say, I am, you know, I kind of feel like I Trying to sort of pull back and say it's completely definitely a paranormal act but it's so.

You know, that the circumstances so fit the, the modus operandi of what's been going on in the house.

3:47:09

And it just thinks this, you know, if you were right I say if you're writing the script this is how it would end, you know this this dramatic.

This dramatic fire would signify the end of the end of the story of the film. so, So looking back Nick, you know, thinking about your involvement, your overall Reflections on the case itself you kind of feel that there's any more to uncover here.

3:47:34

All she think the case is largely reached its conclusion at this point.

Oh so that's a great question.

So I guess so with the SCC case is we end up when we get I mean this this is actually isn't this officially an FC so you can't.

3:47:50

But it's a case it's a society of SBI or aware but when we when we post when we take on an SCC case, we effectively document, all the information that's gone on speak to them or try and contact the people involved and then try and build up a picture of what's going on.

3:48:07

Historically, what's happening now?

You know, you, you kind of do the whole game of going through the motions of trying to get uncover what's going on and then you get to the point, right?

Okay, I've got to throw as I can.

You write it up?

Send it in.

Its the case closed.

3:48:24

Probably not.

And in fact, almost certainly not because unless it's something historical that's gone on and then it's done and dusted.

Then it's going to be an ongoing case.

So this particular case, I think Tony has said that the actual activity is drastically fallen down or or sacked off?

3:48:43

But when you still free what's going on these thinking?

Well you know if this was happening in my house I wouldn't be particularly happy about you know, you kind of you're still experiencing stuff that's happening so but it's just not as it doesn't seem as Well, as full on, I think Tony said that the television is still the main source of activity with the volume keeps going on and off and tell the kids switching itself off and on and off and stuff like that.

3:49:11

But of course, that's still activity.

So I I It might it might have gone dormant or slowed up.

I think it's a case it will just carry on running and running.

I sound, I know Tony is still in contact and I think unless it becomes the point where they've had, you know, maybe a month or two months, we're literally nothing has happened.

3:49:32

I think it's, I think it will still be ongoing.

I mean, because even at the new house, They have been up, they have been experiencing some activity.

In fact, the actual I should have had since that when we're actually in the house on the interview There was some activity going on and the actual, I think they said it was the volume of the Telly gone up really loud.

3:49:55

And I think I remember the partner coming into the kitchen or something coming into the kitchen, so all the Telly not there or something really blast.

I know.

And it was like, okay and I didn't really react because I didn't really react.

And then I found out later on.

3:50:11

I think Tony is, you know, they report put it down in their, in their are there.

A daily summaries this had happened?

And because they make a fuss about it, I didn't make a fuss about, you know, and you think this is, this is something that happens with this family.

So, they've got used to it without their, you never get used to Far, and I know for a fact that they quite understandably terrified. that this thing, if this thing had been Had caused the actual fire in the house, the family.

3:50:42

You know, we terrified that it could do it again, but I'm glad to say, as far as I know, nothing has happened along those lines.

So, I think it may have, you know, backed off or whatever.

I don't know it, but it certainly not calm and regardless, how much we are investigators.

3:51:00

And this is the kind of thing.

We're interested, we do not want the family to go through anything like that and and you know, we would rather completely stopped and happy days for those people because they've had enough by Sally.

So I hope everybody listening.

So far, has found these different conversations and the involvement of the different investigators as compelling as I have.

3:51:24

Of course, we've all so heard from the family themselves.

Just two.

Come to you.

Tony to help.

Bring things together in this conversation together.

Do you want to help kind of?

Set the scene in terms of describing where things go and please stand as of recording this interview how a things with the family right now.

3:51:46

A phenomenon is still occurring at the The Bungalow not nothing like on the scale.

It was, it's probably Five to eight percent occurs, hostility TV, still hanging around.

3:52:03

We're still getting some rapid and we've got the yoga data 13 year old now that supporting mimicking wrapping and a lot of activities associated and surrounding her And this is a completely different property.

3:52:20

The reason why we would get along, he's just the reason but we're in the Realms of arms. fantasy of trying to find a solution to this, and I'll probably made about the baby to get, he's calling the case.

3:52:41

I've never called it a you know the Poltergeist are all whatever mainly because It's almost impossible to Fathom out understand what on Earth is is going on there and I'm relatively confident that as far as the evidence is concerned.

3:53:08

It's probably the best documented case on my card.

And we have got more category evidence in any case, including Enfield that there to be analyzed.

And I think once the children become of age whether 18 and probably left the house by that point, you know, we have got an understanding with the family, all the data, you know, thousands of files will become available including the footage because at the moment, Michelle people love to rely on my own Integrity.

3:53:45

What I'm saying is true.

And after does he have the evidence to about this up?

I know 100% confident, I have some of it I've shared with you because you trusted Ally, you like to pay confidence because we have to keep this family secure.

3:54:04

And cite the reason why a normalize everything but the smoking gunns are within this case.

Michelle you've seen it yourself.

The least three, maybe four, which are absolutely positive.

Yeah, this can this has no other explanation except it's genuinely paranormal.

3:54:24

So just thinking about the the case and where it stands at this present time.

Do you have any plans next steps in terms of what you and your team may be looking at all supporting the family with going forward?

So that's a very good question.

3:54:39

The case is so very much open.

The problem we have is since the fire in certain, you see, Not absolutely Flatline and activity.

But certainly in October I think there's about Eighteen events.

3:54:58

Some of them are quite subjective.

We used to in between 70 to 82 events per month and it's fell away to almost think he was around about nine in January.

I don't really know what the answer is.

3:55:14

You know, we are seeing a slightly different Change in the activities, as we spoke about with one of the younger daughters and we just got to allow it.

Let the journey take us there because it may well be from like us as we talk.

3:55:32

Now that we don't receive any more reports of activity.

The There isn't any cameras in there at the moment?

but, The family up, we covered.

That's the main plus side to it and the fire.

3:55:49

There's not much more.

We can do Etc.

Just to be here if and where if it does escalate and supposedly.

Somebody's back since the fight the moved away, the loud. 10 Mi away in a different committee different property.

He a lot of the old.

3:56:06

Activity occurred at the old house has disappeared.

So it's a question.

I think he's a moment is impossible to answer, Michelle to guys.

It is a way to see, isn't it to see how it progresses.

3:56:22

Yeah, I don't think anything more that we can.

We can do.

We are looking at the psychology in particular, with the younger daughter in the west PR, A investigator and she had a books.

3:56:39

He specializes in that type of phenomena but we're very much like almost trying to look for Clues rather than just sit back.

Wait, to see what happens if it does begin to manifest again.

3:56:55

So we will, we will just have to wait and see.

And I suppose kind of following on from that, you know, if if you had a magic wand and with that magic wand, you know, could involve anybody out there in terms of expertise, you know, someone with a particular knowledge say in physics, anything at all anybody around the world or people around the world communities around the world, if you could Know where would you like to maybe hope seek out, you know, some help in terms of interrogating that danger in the findings that you've got to date just thinking about what you could do with it.

3:57:34

How you could expand upon what you have in terms of the knowledge about what you've been able to to capture and record and collate so far.

No who's kind of expertise out there would be beneficial in terms of looking at some of what you've got to help.

Add to the, the perspective and the thoughts around some of the data in there, the evidence that you've got today, Yeah, the big problem we have.

3:57:58

Well, it's not a problem, which is a matter of fact it and I made it the cases.

So, This is still a young family, three.

They one of the daughters, those 18 and these two younger children, both Ace 13 Families.

3:58:17

So they are concerned if ever got actually into the public domain reason why we've been so careful.

It's regard to keep, you know, everything.

And then I lies I've been incredibly selective when it comes to the people, consulted Caitlin, I think niece some degree crowded because he's right, got the case to him in the first place, he recognized that the case he's significant and he's been other people like Darren Ritz and the South Shields particles.

3:58:50

He played more than his eyes roll with this because I'm dealing with the case.

Of the lights of never dealt with before, and learning from the mistakes of bulky and, and directs in particularly old.

3:59:05

What happens when they meet you get ultimate and because it can completely wrap the investigation, he's got his publicity on the family, it's some stage in the future, you know, the lady.

But as well as the guy that said that one children of an a 17, 18 years of age, they would have no issues and about all the, all the data coming into the public domain I think, is far as the information that and all the data, the videos, and all the evidences that we've got this, probably seven and a half thousand separate files, four or five thousand reports.

3:59:45

All of it is there to learn from?

Yeah, there is a cloud secrecy around it at the moment.

But I have been willing to Share aspect to the case.

Like I've done, you know, we spoke about this.

This is probably the longest tattoo podcast interviewed I've ever done on the case.

4:00:04

There's nothing of missed out with exception of just really the location and the name Michelle.

And if there's anything I could learn from, this is the I didn't eat.

It wasn't even where at all, probably middle of lust so much.

4:00:21

That the sp-r had Nick Tamil literally lived eight miles away from the house.

Had we have had nickel available to it early days.

That would have made my life so much easier because we could have.

She just put somebody that very quickly.

4:00:39

When the house itself was beginning to almost Hemorrhage activity, where the family would decide to cope with it on the loan and I'm on the end of the phone.

So Nick's take no more of an active role of a recent months.

But unfortunately, we know what happened in September.

4:00:57

Yeah, because when Nick, he's one of just two people.

That where we've had third-party validation.

Yeah, she experienced the wraps, the 39, and the only other occasion that actually happened is in September 2023 when her family just returned from their holidays, where we stayed there.

4:01:18

For six days.

So we now got the female and the female back at the house.

When suddenly the television started to behave, that was Witness by Kevin Farrell.

I was outside in the car with equipment a mistake.

4:01:35

So Nick did play a role because it's not very often and he can be that with the family when when the phenomena was a career and Nick, he's excellent about to get very quickly, came aware this surrounding and just made sure you were everybody was and you could actually validate this series of wrappings.

4:01:57

So that was interesting.

Of course we don't know what's going to happen.

Just a few days later with the refrigerator.

But I think that the points that you've raised are really important because I think it comes to something that oftentimes we don't really talk about and we people can tend to overlook and maybe not realize.

4:02:21

And that is, you know, What the, what?

You would kind of perceive and what others might perceive as being their role.

If they were stepping in, if they had a case like this if they were involved as a team and came across something like this, it's you know what, what's the end goal?

4:02:39

What what are they there to achieve?

Why are they there?

And I think what we can clearly see with the involvement of, you know, the SBR with yourself and your team.

Is that?

Here are people who've come together really in this supportive role to be there for the family and that's a primary motivation.

4:02:59

Involvement is that, you know, you're involvement is that is there to primarily support the family through this process.

You're helping them to cope and to understand and to take control of what's happening to feel more in control of what's happening to them, to be that supportive role, and that supportive voice.

4:03:18

And that's so clear there, in terms of what you were just saying.

It's it's front and center and everything that you've done.

And I think the things that come out of it, then afterwards you know, with the documentation that you have with the evidence that you have that's secondary, it's not the primary motivation.

4:03:36

The primary motivation is seems to be making sure the family are okay supporting them in the best way that you can and of course documenting what has happened to look at and analyze and have his over.

The time being but also for future analysis.

4:03:55

When there are when there's more that you can do with it, like you said, when the, when the family are able to be in that position, Uncomfortable in that position to show it.

Yeah, because I think in some respects with it is we we did come away. with the series of answers, we can be fairly Sure, that whatever was occurring in that property was location based. because, Once you moved into the knee property, when it can't fire.

4:04:27

It's generally it's still something going on there, likewise and holiday, but it nothing like on the know because if, if it was a person, centered phenomena purely PK, it would have followed them to the property right now, and it hasn't is different.

4:04:48

And they may well be of certain may be more than one.

Type of phenomena occurring and the baby because you've got this confusion of poltergeist and seem to always when it go from Casey Casey k.

4:05:05

Did Bobby some of the very difficult to Define?

What is a poltergeist?

The reason why often referred to, it is the case.

He certainly got. absolute confirmation as far as the wrappings were concerned because with these are monitored Towards the end with nine, internal cameras were able to follow the sound and other Gemini idea of where its location is based on.

4:05:32

We know about then about the how the performance of differently in the case of the two kind of ports, one very early on, in the case when that was, that was a one that got the spi's intro because the males upstairs walking down the top of the hallway.

4:05:48

Yeah.

And this five pence coin.

You only see the last eight and I named shares of boots, know, just seeing some Manifesto.

Then in June of 2020.

Yeah.

4:06:04

June 2024 got this kind of strike the male occupied it up into some years before because that was one was on the top of the highway.

What we can say is when the mystery was about, Paul's, where do they come from?

4:06:21

Just a sort of Vortex our portal.

What you see on the video, which again will come to be in a property management some state.

It seems to just manifest a mid-air So what's the physics involved with this?

4:06:41

We don't have an understanding.

I think we're more into the quantum side of physics and science to be able to give standard chance of giving an explanation of a 1 Pence client, just appears to manifest.

And so we got the more we looked at the case helped by the cameras the more began to understand.

4:07:02

So because these incredibly you know, the last big UK holder goes case with South Shields which we don't get that was 15 years ago.

Back up before that, he could probably be looking at batasi and probably Enfield.

4:07:19

These are incredibly rare cases.

All bits of Fountains of elements of poltergeist, but not on the scale, it would talk in the bizarre nature of these cases.

So for another, one comes up in a few years time, I think, certainly I will.

4:07:38

And certainly, the SPI will be in a far better position to write.

This is what we need to do at the outside because the great Shame about the fire was.

Yes, I spent you can sit on my money on some experimental pieces equipment because we already know that we had some bizarre energy radiation and temperature readings, which you can't explain that divided being sent in May of just, take it as enter the area on understanding, what energy actually dealing with.

4:08:09

Um She fainted didn't care.

So At the conclusion of this podcast, it's only fitting to come back to the female homeowner herself.

To give her final thoughts.

As well as her own words of advice, 21 else out there, experiencing something similar.

4:08:31

Without Tony's team in the spread.

I don't know where we've been now.

I just want to go, obviously, get it out there that there is help out there.

You just have to find the right help and be mindful of who you're allowing into your home and what they're doing and one of my hopes.

And this is obviously, I can honestly hand my heart, it's horrible living with this type of thing in your house.

4:08:51

But if I know that the documents from my house from all the data will help someone else, that that would be brilliant because I wouldn't wish anyone else to be in this situation and not know where to go for help or know where to get any answers.

4:09:06

Because that, that was me, I think at the beginning, and that is the worst feeling ever seen in alone and not actually know what's going on.

So if all this state is from my house, if all this experiments, my house, if this can help someone in the future that might end up going through the same as what we're going through.

4:09:23

I will be so happy.

Thank you for joining me in today's episode.

Where we have comprehensively explored this case.

It has been a year since the fire on the six of September 2024.

4:09:41

I can however report. but from March of this year, activity spontaneously erupted again and is still proving difficult to understand with Bursa phenomena.

Followed by no reports at all.

4:09:57

At the heart of this case is a family.

Whose lies continue to be disrupted. for the investigators, and for the Society of psychical research, Or they can do is keep monitoring investigating.

And supporting.

4:10:15

All of which leaves this case.

Very much still active and open.

Tony Hayes

Paranormal Investigator

Tony grew up in Cheshire, England. After graduating in Science and Physics with Chemical giants ICI, he left the security of this large company and moved into Government Service and later the Police Service. He has investigated reports of spontaneous paranormal activity since 1989 and is a member of the SPR. He is the Case Manager and Lead Investigator for Paranormal Investigation UK operating a small team of psychical researchers. He is currently jointly working with the SPR investigating a high end live poltergeist case in Essex including the apports of over 460 coins into the property. More recently is now a member of the SPR's Spontaneous Case Committee.
Tony is a life ling guitarist. He is also the Secretary of the 22nd (Riders) of the Cheshire Regiment and is also a volunteer for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, and when time allows, continues recording music.

Ynske Heeringa

consultant

Ynske is based in The Netherlands and joined the team of Paranormal Investigation UK in 2021 after having an interest in the paranormal and spirituality for many years, often looking at the paranormal with a healthy dose of scepticism.

Interest and hobbies include food & cooking and music (Ynske plays both piano and the harp), reading and art.

Ynske is a member of the Dutch SPR & SPR UK.

Ynske is also a member of various professional secretarial associations.

Nick Terrell

Nick is a member of ASSAP. He is also been the The Ghost Club co-ordinator for booking and leading club investigations for the past 8 years. He is a member of the SPR/SCC member.
Nick has had an interest in the paranormal since the age of 10. Later in life he rain his own group called Insightful Paranormal Investigations. He is married with 3 boys. He is also the Chairman of the local tennis club, a regular badminton player, model maker and WW2 aeroplane nut.

Ciaran Farrell

Psychical Researcher & Paranormal Investigator

Ciaran has served as a Council member of the Society for Psychical Research, SPR and the SPR’s Spontaneous Cases committee, SCC for many years.
He has had many psychical experiences and adventures when he was a boy. This led him to formulate his own early theories about ghosts, poltergeists and telepathic veridical dreams of the dead gained through direct encounters with ghosts, spirits and poltergeists.
He went on to build and design some of his own ghost-hunting equipment and to improve upon his previous theories about Cold Spots building on his own experience of them and his own ghost adventures.
He formulated the concept of ‘my body as an instrument’ to monitor and evaluate his perception of the atmospheres of rooms and outdoor places and preternatural Cold Spots within them as well as the perception and detection of poltergeists and ghost encounters.
In 1970, Ciaran went with his mother and sister and members of another family to an extremely haunted holiday home in Broadstairs in Kent. There was a great deal of paranormal activity during the holiday, which was cut short as a result of it. However, the real horror was yet to come, as the paranormal activity associated with several poltergeists/ghosts from the holiday followed Ciaran and his family back to their home in London, and Ciaran to his boarding school. The other family was also severely affected. One of the phenomena that Ciaran experienced due to his psychic sensitivity was that of lucid telepathic veridical dreams from at least two murder victims.
This gave him a deep desire to study sc… Read More