Aug. 14, 2025

Filming the Paranormal: The Making of The Supernatural UK

In this episode of Haunted History Chronicles, I’m joined by filmmaker and paranormal investigator John Shackleton to delve into his latest project – The Supernatural UK.

A candid, fly-on-the-wall paranormal investigation series, The Supernatural UK takes a fresh, unfiltered look at one of the world’s most enduring mysteries. Across ten episodes, the series ventures into castles, prisons, museums and warehouses, working alongside diverse teams of investigators to explore the big questions: Do ghosts exist? Can we communicate with them? What are they – and what do they want?

Viewers can expect moments ranging from the chilling to the surreal – from poltergeists and sinister dolls to a shape-shifting goblin and even the spirit of a medieval pervert – all captured as they happened, with no scripting, no staging, and no filters.

Throughout the series, Shackleton is a constant presence, immersing the audience in the investigations with the help of experts including Justin Cowell, Diane Chambers, Craig Williams, Katie Goodland, Dr Kate Cherrell, Rachel Hayward, Kim Morgan, John Wright, Karin Beasant, Lorien Jones, Kate Ray, Lisa Holman and Amy Cox, plus a special guest appearance from seasoned paranormal investigator Kev Kerr.

My Special Guest Is John Shackleton

John Shackleton is a multi-skilled, creative and technical filmmaker and TV Director; with endless storytelling imagination, an unflinching vision, and a relentless drive to make great things happen.

With over 20 years of professional experience spanning features, factual entertainment, documentary and drama John has been the writer and producer of Welsh BAFTA nominated feature film 'Panic Button', which sold to 26 territories worldwide. Writer, producer, director of feature film 'The Sleeping Room', now on UK/US release. Producer / director of 'Animal Impossible' for BBC Studios / Discovery US alongside multiple features and series for BBC 1 & 2, Channel 4, ITV, Sky & Discovery. He has been a screenwriter for multiple original screenplays for TV drama and feature films.

In this conversation, expect insights into:

Memorable moments from the Attractions strand – including the mysterious missing pane of glass in Episode 2 at the Savoy Theatre, Monmouth.
The research, selection process, and collaborations that brought the series to life.
A sneak peek at upcoming episodes in Somerset and Warwick Castle – and the emotional truths behind the investigations.

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All houses in which men have lived and died, or haunted houses.

Through the open door, the harmless phantoms on their errands glide with feet that make no sound upon the floor.

There are places where history lingers, where time slips, if only for a moment, where echoes of the past whisper in darkened halls and forgotten corridors.

0:39

Old buildings hold more than just bricks and mortar.

They carry the weight of those who came before.

Laughter, sorrow, love, loss.

And sometimes, just sometimes, the veil lifts, revealing something beyond.

1:00

From spectral figures glimpsed in candlelight to stories carved into the very walls themselves, Haunted History Chronicles delves into the history, the hauntings, and the echoes of the past that refuse to fade.

But the journey for the podcast doesn't stop there.

1:20

We explore the strange and the supernatural, from folklore that has shaped beliefs for centuries to unexplained encounters that defy reason, tales of restless spirits, omens, cryptic legends, and mysteries that have endured through time.

1:40

Join me as we unravel the haunted, the historical, and the hidden.

So dim the lights settle in and step beyond the veil.

You can follow Haunted History Chronicles on all major podcast platforms as well as finders on social media to share in these stories.

2:04

Because history, folklore, and the paranormal are never truly silent, some doors, once opened, can never be.

Closed.

Joining me is someone who brings the shadowy past to life in a way few others can.

2:24

The award-winning filmmaker, screenwriter and director John Shackleton.

You may know his name from critically acclaimed films like Panic Button and The Sleeping Room, or from high caliber productions across the BBC, ITV, Discovery and beyond, but today we're delving into his boldest, rawest and most unfiltered work to date.

2:52

The Supernatural UK.

This brand new documentary series on YouTube is already making serious waves with fans of the paranormal, seasoned investigators, and even the most hardened skeptics stopping to take notice.

3:10

And trust me, I've watched the first 3 episodes and I could not look away.

This is not your typical ghost hunting series.

There are no overproduced jump scares, no scripted drama.

What you'll find instead is something infinitely more unsettling.

3:29

Truth in its most unnerving form, presented in a family on the wall style.

The Supernatural UK immerses you directly into haunted museums, phantom filled theatres and notoriously haunted prisons.

3:46

And it's not just a showcase of haunted places, it's a deep dive into what happens when we stop trying to stage the supernatural and just let it speak for itself.

John Shackleton isn't front and centre as a presenter.

4:02

He becomes part of the environment, observing, experiencing and allowing the tension to build naturally.

And it does, Oh, it really does.

We'll be talking with John about the genesis of the series.

4:19

What inspired it?

Why he deliberately avoided the sensationalized format of most paranormal shows, and how they selected such richly haunted locations across the UK.

From the unsettling Museum of Curiosities in Nottingham, where objects move on their own, to the Savoy Theatre in Monmouth where a missing pane of glass became a key moment in the investigation, to the House of Frankenstein in Bath, these first 3 episodes are nothing short of captivating and audiences are hooked.

4:56

The feedback has been electric.

I've been absolutely enthralled and I know many of you have too.

And the best part?

This is only the beginning.

There are 10 episodes in total, covering everything from castles to prisons, with some of the UK's most respected investigators names you'll recognize including Diane Chambers, Craig Williams, Dr. Kate Cherelle and Kev Kerr, among others, all bringing their unique approach to the mysteries at hand.

5:32

I'll be asking John about the philosophical core of the series, this blend of critical inquiry and emotional truth that makes the Supernatural UK feel less like a show and more like a genuine window into the unknown.

He's got stories to tell, moments that truly shook him.

5:53

And trust me, when a man who's spent 20 years behind the camera says something unsettled him, you pay attention.

We'll also get a sneak peek at what's coming next.

So settle in, grab your headphones, dim the lights, and prepare yourself.

6:13

Because just in a moment, you'll hear from a filmmaker who doesn't just capture the paranormal, he lets it speak.

The Supernatural UK is streaming now on YouTube with new episodes released every Monday at 7:00 PM UK time.

6:30

Do not miss it.

It's one of the most authentic, thought provoking and eerie.

Series you'll see this year.

So let's get into it.

6:53

Hi, John, it's so lovely to have you bit, you know, back on the podcast.

It's been a while since we we chatted and so thank you for coming back to talk about what you've been up to.

Hi, Michelle.

Well, thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, it's been over a year.

Long time coming.

7:09

And obviously the last time we spoke, we were really focusing in on the, the documentary that you were working on with, with other people, other investigators.

Yes.

Do you want to just kind of briefly fill us in since the last time we spoke in terms of what you've been up to and and what's been happening?

7:26

Yeah.

I mean, I think the last thing that you saw and that we discussed was called Somerset Supernatural, which was a pilot episode for ATV series essentially, which was 3 investigations jumping between each investigation, basically following the format of kind of mainstream Channel 4, Channel 5 TV shows.

7:49

And then, yeah, I kind of, it's such a very strange beast because I always set off with the intention of let's try something entirely for YouTube and then ended up going down the line of let's make something for TV because that's what I'm used to, albeit not on my own because I normally I'm a freelancer.

8:10

So I work as a freelance TV producer, director, cameraman.

So I, I've gone for hire really.

And I do lots of different types of shows.

So, yeah, ended up putting this together as my own as a pilot.

And then, yeah, he got lots of interest and, and people really loved it and, and responded well to it.

8:30

And then we were talking to different broadcasters and that's probably what's consumed the past year.

Not entirely a year, probably, well, seven or eight months.

And then we reached a point where it's like, do you know what, let's just go back to what we said we were going to do and just do it for YouTube.

8:46

And then looking at it, it was like, well, we can divide this up into more episodes and, and, and see, see where we can take it.

So yeah, it's now 10 episodes.

Well, it's 8 episodes with two more that I'm literally looking at the timeline as we speak, which is just like spaghetti junction of colours and blocks and hours and hours and hours and hours of footage, which is two night investigation at Warwick Castle.

9:12

So yeah, when that's complete, hopefully before the schedule runs out because it's one a week at the moment.

There'll be 10 episodes available to everybody on YouTube for free, but there's currently three out there.

So what pushed you then to want to explore the paranormal on screen?

9:33

It's a fascinating subject and and in my working life, I'm always doing documentary based TV and then when I'm it's contract based, So when I'm not working for somebody else and I go back to working for myself, I start writing things that are TV series or movies and they're generally quite high concept things.

9:55

So they come from that space, call it the 40 and space or you know, it's, there's always a sort of a high concept to it, an elevated pitch, if you like, which might fall into the realms of the supernatural or science fiction or, you know, just something beyond the realms of science.

10:13

So it's always been of interest for me.

But then there there really has been a big sort of penny drop moment, which has created this massive intersection where my, the two sides of my career have come together.

And I thought I can take all the cool stuff that I love and that I write about and fantasize about and put it in the real world.

10:35

And if I do it the way that I've been making the TV shows with the people that I know and the equipment that I've got and all the rest of it and, and the contacts that I have suddenly realized, I can make a whole series on my own whilst there's no TV work out there.

Because it's been a terrible couple of years really for, for broadcast.

10:54

And it's mainly, I would assume it's because people are going online and people no longer watch as much scheduled TV as they used to.

And that means that broadcasters can't take the risks that they once did.

So they they need safer, repeatable formats and other things that I find out that I'm working on.

11:15

So I just thought, well, if I go my own way, I can make whatever I want and I can do it my own way and I can explore the things that come up that I find interesting.

So yeah, that's, that's what's taken me there really.

And it's been a lot of fun already.

And obviously when we.

11:33

Had the chance to to speak before having watched the, you know, preliminary first episode that you put together.

I mean, it's such a different style of of show.

It's it's something that really does move away from this sensationalized route that we often see with other paranormal media productions and so on.

11:55

Why was it important for you to take that candid documentary style approach rather than what we see in many of the other shows out there?

I don't really watch those other shows and and never had so I would never, I would never have had the imagination to apply that to it.

12:13

If I'm brutally honest.

It's like it doesn't doesn't seem to warrant that as like I'm more into sort of wonder and awe than I am shock and jump scare if you like.

So you know, I'm going into it wide eyed and innocent, probably bit naive and seeing what happens and hoping for the best that something's going to come out of it.

12:34

And then when it does, it's it's a it's a joy and it's fascinating.

It's interesting.

So I guess say something great for an audience of 1 and that's me.

So I'm just doing what I do, as I keep saying, in the in the sort of TV world, I'm I'm Mr. Observational documentary.

12:52

I go and film real people doing what they do and I dig deep into their lives and find out who they are and what makes them take and all the rest of it, or their business or whatever it may be.

And I'm just applying exactly the same principles as, as what I do because it's comfortable and, and easy for me.

13:08

And it, it lends itself to this in a way that I'm quite shocked hasn't already been done.

I mean, I don't really understand why people wouldn't take that path, to be honest.

I've I've got no desire to sensationalise or misconstrue things or make things up that are bigger than they are.

13:25

We're all, we're all hoping for something amazing to happen.

Obviously when we're out filming.

But you know, the reality of a paranormal investigation is it's can be 12 hours and it can be very cold, very tiring and very boring.

Then other times just what things just happen.

13:44

You really scratch your head about and then it's always when I get back in the edit and I'm, I'm pouring through the footage and, and I see things or I'm often not hear things rather than see things.

And, and then the story kind of comes to life whilst I'm editing and it's, it's fascinating.

14:02

But each time I have to check myself.

And then when, when I'm, when I fully believe what I'm hearing is real, I check with people around me and then I go all out debunking mode because then I lie in bed and I think someone's taking their mech some someone's, you know, someone's making that up.

14:23

Someone's, someone's trying to get their story on camera.

And then I go all out to try and get to the bottom of it.

And then more often than not, well, all every time so far there, there, there's been none of that going on.

So I'm like, well, all I can do is present what, what I've found and what happened on that night, because it's essentially real time.

14:44

We might be on a 12 hour investigation and I'm obviously, you know, selecting the the highlights of that evening, but it still happened.

And they're all kind of linear stories.

She like, you know, we start at 7:00 and we end when we end.

And what happens in between is is forms the spine of the story.

15:02

So yeah, it's certainly some interesting things.

But I think that unscripted aspect is the the very refreshing thing because it is playing out in real time.

It's not a story being, you know, superimposed on a location.

15:19

It's not an outcome that's already been designed and created for TV and put into the location.

Instead, this is just what played out for those people who were the investigators in that location and what happened in the course of the 12 hours that they were they were there.

15:38

Like you said, you've taken the highlights, you've put that together in a way that someone is going to be able to follow the journey that they went on, which means you come away with a real deep understanding of their experience of the location.

And like you said, it's that awe and wonder.

15:54

It leaves you as the audience in a position where you can really reflect on what's happened, start to formulate your own opinions, your own thoughts, as opposed to already being told what you should be thinking.

It's so much more open.

16:09

And again, that's because it's that documentary fly on the wall type of, of an experience.

We get to go along with the investigators and experience it through the lens of ATV screen or a computer screen, which is amazing.

It's so well put together and, and it just is so refreshingly different and it and it's exciting.

16:32

It's incredibly exciting.

I think it was when we had the screening of the Somerset Supernatural, we invited everybody who was involved and then visit Somerset and organize this.

That brought lots of people in from local businesses and so on and watched it as as a piece about Somerset.

16:47

It went down very well and and Chris is one of the chaps who who worked on it with me.

He'd not seen any of it and he watched it as one and he was very complimentary.

And all the rest of it, he said he was driving home and he's like, what have I just watched?

17:05

And he, you know, he's only after the event that it kind of sunk in about what he'd actually observed on screen.

And he was like, what?

And he did the same thought process that I do.

Is someone taking the mech, you know, because it's it's just defies comprehension.

17:22

A lot of it, you know, but to me that was that was a penny drop moment for me when he said that and gave me that feedback.

I'm thinking, God, well, if, if the audience can take that away from it, then that's that's awesome.

We'll just continue to do that.

So I guess we then divvied up the Somerset episode, which had three investigations in it.

17:41

But when we start to dissect them and pull them apart, we needed more.

So there's so within this is where the next.

So we've got the three episodes that are out already, which is the Museum of Curiosity is in Nottingham, it's the Savoy Theatre in Monmouth, and then it's the House of Frankenstein in Bath.

18:01

And then when we go into the next three are Somersets.

So we've got Walton Castle where some crazy stuff you may remember happened regarding a poltergeist and said skeptic Kev Kerr, which was quite an interesting one.

18:17

We did a revisit to that as well.

So there's two episodes to come from Walton Castle and then we go to Shep to Malik prison.

And then in the 6th and 7th episode, we go back to the Bath theatrical costume hire, which which was in the original 1.

18:34

And then we have another visit with another medium who, who investigates the place as well.

So we've, we've kind of enhanced what we had in the pilot, if you like, to go across 3 episodes, which actually becomes 5 episodes for the next phase that we're about to launch.

18:53

So yeah, it's all, it's all very exciting.

And sounds like such a lot of work.

I mean, just kind of thinking about all of that and what you just helped to to share with the listeners in terms of what's to come.

What kind of has been involved in pulling the series together from the research to some of those amazing locations that you mentioned?

19:15

How, how did you go about piercing and bringing all of that together and the different investigators that obviously you brought along this time with the the upcoming episodes?

But it all starts off quite innocently and naively.

As ever.

Karen Besson is one of the producers on this and she's my point of contact.

19:35

So we'll be, we'll be in a conversation.

What do you want to do next?

Where do you want to go?

And we can have a little think about it.

And then who, who would you like to take along?

What kind of person would you like?

And then she'll make some suggestions for me.

So the first 3 episodes that have come out were after the Somerset ones, as I said.

19:52

So yeah, we, I, I grouped them together by theme.

And I think it was because, honestly, I think that was because.

The House of Frankenstein in Bath was the first one I was like, well, I having that as a standalone feels a bit odd to me.

20:09

So that's, that's thematically group them and look at attractions, which is how we got on to the Museum of Curiosities in Nottingham and the theater in, in Monmouth.

And then, but once you've decided and the, the train's on the tracks, if you like, that's the case of, well, you know, you've got 1 you need two more what would you like?

20:32

And then people will make suggestions, investigators will make suggestions, Paramount make suggestions and then get on the phone and see who's up for it.

Because we've done this without any money.

It's, it's been, you know, just pulling together favours and asking for favours and asking for access and all that sort of thing.

20:51

But then that's been quite nice because that when you do get access, you get the green light.

Yes, you can come and film here and yes, those two investigators are available for that particular night.

Then you've just got to go for it.

And then really there isn't a massive amount of research that goes into it because I want to keep it fresh.

21:13

I don't want them knowing too much, if anything, and I don't want me knowing too much, if anything.

That's not going to affect the outcome of the evening.

So I'm filming what happens the way I shoot an episode is I'll go there first.

So for the House of Frankenstein, which premiered last night, I go down there, I meet the people, hear the story, spend the morning with them, get all the shots and, and, and basically get the overview of what the, what the, the sightings are there, what the accounts are.

21:42

Put that together as a little four or five minute film sometimes show that to the investigators.

And then they tell me how they'd like to try and approach it.

And then we have a conversation about that.

And then off we go.

And then and then at that point.

And that's when we just film what happens in the evening.

21:58

Yeah.

And I put in whatever protocol or contingencies that I can to make sure that, you know, something's going to happen.

Like when we did the prison, I was really nervous about going to the world's most haunted prison and coming away empty handed.

That would just be unthinkable.

22:16

So we, we brought in those security dog because, you know, dogs, dogs don't lie, dogs don't make things up.

And, and, and that got us the result on that.

So I think we've kind of found a format as we've gone, as we've gone along, just kind of that works.

22:33

That didn't work.

Oh, we need to push that a bit harder.

And then, and then the, the structure has kind of found itself.

But it's still, as I say, we, we film on 2 cameras, two or three GoPro cameras, a 360 camera is flipping microphones all over the place.

22:52

There's, we're doing an Estes method.

We've got a line out from the recorder so we can hear what's happening on the white noise.

So we can cross reference that with what's being said.

And that's often how we find the story of what happens in the Estes, which is where a lot of the interesting stuff comes out.

23:09

You pull that together on a timeline like I'm looking at now, and it gives you a migraine.

It's just so much stuff, hours and hours and hours of it, and then you got to untangle all that spaghetti and then find things that you think you've got a story or you think you're going in with the story, or you know, at least you're going to go linear.

23:29

They went in this room and they went to that room and then this happened and then that happened.

But it's only when you start really deep diving into it and listening with headphones on to little evps that come out in the background.

There might be in response to a question that happened a few minutes beforehand.

Suddenly that's when you've got a story that's maybe not that apparent on the evening, especially when you're tired and cold and rundown and everyone's talking and everything's happening.

23:56

And you know, when in the cold light of day, when you sit there and you listen, that's when all the really interesting stuff comes out and we find, Oh my God, that's the story.

And then the, the, the music and other museum in the, the theatre in, in Monmouth, the Savoy Theatre, you know, that was a strange night because that one we didn't really have a story.

24:19

We, we, we didn't have much information.

It was a very last minute thing.

Everybody that I spoke to, everybody wanted to be on camera.

The stories were all kind of hearsay, nothing really to anchor it on.

So it was like, OK, let's just turn up and, and, and go and see what happens.

24:36

There was no contingency in place for that one.

Certainly no, you know, security dog or, or anything.

And what came out was just like mind boggling, very, very strange night.

And yeah, I think you've seen that one.

24:53

Yeah, I've all the first three I've watched and I think I've watched now multiple times because you know, coming back to what we were saying before about awe and wonder, when, when something hits really well, it leaves you asking questions long after you finish watching it.

25:09

And each of the first 3 episodes are so very different.

You've got very different investigation styles with the different investigators because you've got different people coming in to explore these locations and they're, they're doing it in the way that they want to.

25:24

You're just observing them and recording and filming.

And yeah, just every single one of them.

I've come away with that scratching the head or what on earth has happened there?

How did that happen?

I mean, just some very, very stellar locations and some more unusual lesser known locations, which I think makes it again, rather refreshing because it's not just a repeat of some of the the very well known haunted locations that we have across the United Kingdom.

25:54

You're really kind of highlighting some of these these beautiful locations with incredible history, wonderful places to explore that maybe not everybody's aware of.

And and the fact that you go in with without that script where maybe there is a lot less information that's known means again, it's very real.

26:16

It's very real to what investigators would do if they're going in and exploring a location.

And we can find those things out afterwards, you know, if a story pops up and a voice and a name keeps coming through, we can do some research on that and see if anything sticks retrospectively.

So again, it's like it's often quite good just to go in quite light footed and just literally explore and experiment.

26:40

The other one that the big one that I'm about to cut is Warwick Castle.

I mean, you talk about classic locations.

I mean, that is just riddled with history, crazy, crazy stories throughout the history of time.

And that's that's the one that's currently giving me a headache because I'm not I'm not really immersed into the edit yet.

26:57

I'm just kind of looking at it and listening to little bits and pieces and and debunking as I go.

I mean, today I just, I started looking at one section and I'm hearing a camera gets turned on like a 360 camera and then suddenly as it's medieval music and, and I can see because it's a 360 camera, I can look all around the room.

27:15

There's the music's not coming from any PA system.

It's not coming from anybody in particular.

I've heard all these accounts that there's because it's an attraction.

Various recordings have been made over the years and played to the visitors and most of them are not there anymore, but some of them are still heard in certain towers and so on.

27:31

I'm thinking, Oh my God, it plays right into that mythology.

I was ready to jump on it, but I'm like, hang on a minute.

Just this is crazy.

So my first port of call was Carrie and I could see she was sitting in the background on this 360 camera.

And lo and behold, she was she was playing some of these sounds into the room just to try and see if she could elicit a reaction.

27:52

But it wasn't immediately obvious.

But that's it's never examples like you just got to explore everything in the rushes because you you don't know.

But it didn't make any sense to me until that phone calls like right, OK, thank you.

I can ditch that.

It's not a story.

But had it not been her and had it not come from anywhere else, then that would have been an amazing story.

28:14

That's what I mean.

That's the that's the investigation from from my point of view, I am the sort of armchair investigator now just trying to make sense of it all, but just trying to be honest with that.

I wouldn't dream of putting that out there knowing that it's what it is, but at the time you just don't know.

28:34

So I just have to genuinely exploit it myself.

Debunk, debunk, debunk, debunk, debunk.

If I can't debunk it, then it's in.

And that's generally my sort of methodology as I'm doing the edits now.

But yeah, 9 times out of 10 there's loads of stuff in there and it's just fries my brain.

28:55

But they are so exciting to watch their, you know, like I said before, they're very, very fresh in terms of what they're offering.

And, you know, we're three episodes in and you can see that they are kind of being kind of produced with the same intention.

29:12

You know, here's something unscripted.

Here's something rooted in real time.

Here's something as this, you know, fly on the wall documentary style approach to the subject.

Those threads are there in every single episode, but every single episode is very unique.

29:27

They stand alone whilst at the same time kind of tying together, which is very well done.

I think it's the the skill of how you're editing and producing and bringing them all together.

And I think part of what makes them so unique is not only the location, but the fact that you you bring in different people.

29:47

So we get to see a range of different investigators with the different approach that they have, with the different theories and thoughts and approaches and perspectives, some more spiritualists, some more scientific.

And again, you get to see these very different styles of the the paranormal and the approaches to the paranormal, which often we don't get to see, get to see one style of approach.

30:15

And we don't see how these can really interplay together and work together.

And here you're doing this episode by episode where we, we get to see these different styles and investigating styles, which again is so exciting to see the kind of the, the collaborative, collaborative aspect that then can come from that in terms of the different questions and the different approaches.

30:39

It's, it's so well done.

It's so exciting to to see that range.

Yeah, I think each episode is talent LED rather than the series being talent LED.

So if it was for TV, the whole series will be talent LED.

It will be the same hosts that take you through each story as we know.

30:57

And I guess maybe that is what makes it a little bit different.

Perhaps, I don't know.

But yeah, we, we've, as I said, we've we've found a format as we've gone and we're, you know, we're exploring the paranormal.

That's why it makes sense to explore it from multiple inroads, from different people, from different perspectives, from different approaches.

31:17

If they all take us to the same place.

I guess that's, that's kind of, I guess all I'm trying to get to with it is that's what I said at the start.

It's kind of that, that awe and wonder.

I, I find awe and wonder when, when I, I hit a blank, I can't debunk, I hear some footsteps or I hear some bangings and draggings and senses or whatever.

31:39

And we go through every single possible thing they could be and I don't have an answer.

OK, I'm not a paranormal expert by any stretch.

But then when I've got paranormal experts there and they're in the same boat as me, I'm like, cool, we've we've got somewhere that is the destination.

31:56

And obviously, you know, it can, there's degrees of that and it can be as big and exciting as, as these things can.

But that's what's exciting as well that we just, we keep going to different places and we keep exploring and the potential of what could happen.

I guess it's just what's going to keep us going.

32:12

And that's why we just like to keep making more and just do it.

And the second series after this and and offer more and more extra bits as well.

And whoever came up with the the kind of the stylistic approach of introducing the different investigators with the the tarot cards, such a genius move.

32:32

I mean, it's so slick.

It's, it adds a wonderful kind of touch to it whereby again, you've got this thread that runs through which enables you to see something spiritual, something that lends itself to the paranormal.

So it has that stylistic approach that works so well for for what you're producing, but at the same time helps to understand, again, these different roles, these different investigators that are coming in and like you said, they're going to go on their own journey.

33:00

So we're not always going to have the same format.

It's not going to be the same questions.

We don't end up at the same destination.

They're all coming with these different styles, which again, the tarot cards help to show so beautifully well.

I guess the, you know, the the little bits of paranormal shows that I have watched or have watched online on YouTube and most of it every takes themselves really seriously.

33:21

So we're talking dressed in black from head to toe, arms folded, legs, legs apart, you know, stones to the lens.

And it's like, I'm a paranormal investigator.

I just kind of think, lighten up.

And I'm like, well, no, the point of this is, you know, you're a teacher, you're a engineer, you're a hairdresser.

33:42

You know, these are real people from different walks of life.

Why do they spend their evenings and weekends and holidays spending all their time, effort and money in doing this night?

To me, that's what makes it way more interesting.

It's like they're real people.

Why are they so committed to it?

33:59

Why they're so passionate about it?

And that's what formed the basis for I want to introduce people differently.

But then the tarot card idea, I have to credit to a couple of people, but mainly my fiance, Kate, we were having a conversation, but at one night, I think she just, we were on the same subject of, you know, paranoid investigators taking themselves really, really seriously.

34:20

And then she came up with a tarot card idea.

And I mentioned it to Andy, who's my business partner in all of this.

But he's also like super visual, super graphic guy.

He's like graphic design, visual effects trained and all rest of it.

And he really knows his stuff and he's got an eye for it.

34:36

And I didn't want to drop it on his desk because I knew how much work he had to do.

But as soon as I mentioned it, he was off.

And he was praying tarot cards for everybody.

And then not only that, he was animating them and bringing them to life.

And I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing.

But I think all the investigators really love having their own tarot card as well.

34:55

Yeah.

Some were asking me about merchandising.

So, yeah, watch this space.

It might be a thing.

But again, it's like there's a visual shorthand to things and, and.

And just finally, his feet as a format, it just struck me as a really cool, graphic way of doing it.

It's totally in keeping with, you know, ambiguous things like druids and so on.

35:14

It's just something that we don't fully understand or claim to either.

So yeah, seem seem to fit.

And, and again, it's just something that helps, I think, to connect the different episodes together because there are some of those things that you see running through just something simple like that introduction of the, the investigators in that way with the tarot, it's, it's just that kind of seamless editing that helps you to see that this is 1 great big series, but at the same time, so refreshing and unique.

35:51

No one is the same as the next.

So you can see the overarching umbrella, the style and the approach to it, but you get something different.

And again, I think the tarot cards help to show that because you recognize some of the skills that the different backgrounds, you see the individuals as individuals and, and they're kind of the, the background and like you said, their, their jobs, what they do day-to-day.

36:14

And it makes it so much more normal, so much more kind of representative of the audience watching who have a, who have a passing interest and more serious interest.

It kind of reflects all of us, which again, I think brings us into what you're doing.

36:29

It brings us into the investigation.

It's not jump scary.

And a couple of people said I could see this, you know, in the afternoon on TV on Channel 4, you know, at 4:00, you know, it's not going to upset anybody and it's not going to scare the bejesus out of anybody.

36:46

Nothing yet anyway.

I don't think so.

It's just, yeah, it's that sort of human point of contact.

It's a, it's a very accessible approach into this space I think, which you know, otherwise feels a bit bit guarded and a bit heavily protected at times.

37:11

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37:30

All the links are waiting for you in the description notes and on our website.

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Now let's step back into the shadows for more Haunted History Chronicles.

37:52

And obviously we've spoken a little bit about the the first 3 episodes so far that have have aired already that have that strand of attractions, as you mentioned earlier.

Again, all very different locations, but equally very, very spooky in their own rights.

38:09

They're incredible, incredible places to get to go into.

Yeah.

Which of those surprised you the most and why when you got to go in?

Oh gosh, I mean, it was back to having a sort of safety net, a little contingency.

Everybody is creeped up by a spooky doll, right?

38:28

I mean, it's the stuff of cinema and, you know, cliche horror and all the rest of it.

But to see a shop that's full of that stuff, chock full of that stuff was like, well, OK, the I wasn't really buying it that something was going to happen there.

But I thought there's enough cool visual stuff going on.

38:45

And it's an interesting space to investigate.

Bring out a skeptic, heavy skeptic like Justin and and Diane, who's more spiritually based.

We can have some fun at the very least.

But yeah, I, none of us expected what happened.

39:04

And it was, I mean, you can see there's, there's no hiding from it.

There was only three of us on that production and the woman who, who's, who looks after the, the, the place.

So there's four of us in the room and, and, and what you see is what you get.

And then it cuts to me at times and you can see I'm pinned against the wall with wide eyes going, oh shit, what was that?

39:26

And I didn't expect to be shocked, surprised or alone scared in a, in a, in a doll shop.

But I was because none of us, and I could see in Justin's eyes as well, could explain what was happening.

39:42

At various points.

We've got vibration sensors going off on request.

There's the sounds of footsteps above us.

There's the sounds of what we all think is dragging above us.

Later on, I find, I mean after the event, I'm finding EVP voices galore.

40:01

It was absolutely riddled with them.

But yeah, Justin was, was getting quite agitated because Justin's seen a lot of stuff and, and the times that make him believe, I think he went to to 30 E Drive 20 E Drive, the the sort of Pontefract monk story from, you know, time ago.

40:21

He, he, he went there and, and heard things proper sort of stamping on the ceilings above him.

And, and, and they've got sound recording devices in the room and, and like everybody absolutely terrified and there's no explanation for what it could be whatsoever.

So he's experienced that extreme of it.

40:38

I haven't.

And I'm not sure where I would say if I was on the receiving end of it, but we're in that dugout basement and they are, they're on command.

Those, those footsteps above us and things being sounds of things being dragged.

And I know we're the only people in that place and just insane.

40:56

If you are here, run down the stairs, show yourself I'm pinned against the wall for you.

No, no, no, do not, because you'll run straight into me for a start.

Yeah, I didn't like it.

So yeah, I am a little bit of a scaredy cat.

41:13

Perhaps I'm a bit susceptible to this stuff.

But yeah, again.

And Justin tries to debunk at the end of that, but you can't fully explain what happened.

And that's what just keeps your toe in the door, I guess.

Keeps keeps it interesting.

Yeah.

41:28

That that that location did surprise me and mildly scared me too, I have to say.

Yeah, I think there's something about all those eyes watching you from the, you know, the glass cabinets.

I mean, again, you wouldn't think that dolls would have that effect, but some of them were very, very eerie.

41:46

I will.

I will say that when I will for anybody that's not watched it yet, as soon as you watch it, you'll know what I mean.

There are some very, very spooky dolls in that place.

And some weird things that just, I mean, again, it's like a lot of we, we, we've been learning a lot as we go with this series in terms of trying to film and capture stuff, which is why we have 360 cameras everywhere we go now, because things happen when you put the cameras down.

42:10

But I was, I was literally being shown around the venue and then I think the lady went downstairs to deal with a customer or something.

And I'm literally just sort of standing there, twiddle my thumbs and looking around at some of these creepy dolls.

And then two people next to me start freaking out and one of them was kind of shrieking and I said, excuse me, what's happening?

42:33

She look at this, look at this and look, every time she moves this way, this thing moves.

I watched and I was like, Oh my God, do it again.

She did it like two or three times.

And this cloth moves inside the cabinet and my kit was all downstairs.

So I just pulled out my phone and filmed what happened.

42:51

And I caught it once or twice on my phone, but it happened continuously before that.

And then I'm, I'm moving into the same position and nothing happens.

And a friend did it and nothing happened to them.

This particular lady did it Cherry, she was called.

Soon as she steps in front of it, this thing would start to move.

And it wasn't a vibration and it wasn't a wind and there was nobody pushing on the cabinet and there was nothing there.

43:11

And this is before I'm even filming.

And then another time later on in the same day, I'm when I'm, I've done all my interviews and figured out what's what, and I'm just going to go around and get some shots of dolls and so on.

Dolls start moving in the room was just in front of my camera and I'm standing there looking at it like again, is, is someone taking the mech?

43:32

Like there's nothing in this room.

It's just a room full of dolls hanging from the ceiling and sat on sideboards and stuff and they're moving.

So I'm so I film as much as I can and then I walk up to it and have a look and have a little poke around and surely there's someone sat downstairs pulling a string, taking the mech and, and no, there's, there's nothing.

43:54

This is literally what I can see.

It's a doll hanging by a bit of string and there's no wind in the room.

I'm like, well, I, I, I, I can't do any more than just say I don't understand that, that that's it.

I'm not saying it's paranormal, but I know that nobody was, nobody was winding me up.

44:12

Nobody wasn't a set up.

Those, those dolls were moving and I and I filmed them and then, you know, to top it all.

So that's just the recce visit.

That's my pre visit.

That's the first 4 minutes that I was talking about before.

And then I, you know, I don't show information with the investigators, Justin and Diane.

44:30

And I asked Diane to go around the building.

There's hundreds of dolls in there, select three and take them downstairs to Justin.

He'd, he'd done film with him walking around and and he took what he wanted to take into the basement.

And I asked her to choose three dolls.

44:48

And she used a pendulum for some of them, but not for that one, for this particular one.

Dolls everywhere.

She just turned into that one.

I was like, sorry, excuse me.

That particular doll.

Yeah.

The one in the middle of noticing anything like it.

I don't know.

I'm just really drawn to it.

45:03

And that was absolutely genuine.

And I'm on the inside.

I'm just thinking, Oh my God, why?

What?

And it was just really, really odd.

And then selects that doll, takes it from the cabinet, takes it to the basement and then things start to happen.

45:21

And in my view, it's around that door because of that door.

I might be wrong, but that's that's how it felt to me.

And it's a creepy look looking thing as well.

I mean, I was just we told it shark doll, shark, shark girl, shark girl, the shark girl doll.

But yeah, I want to get some models made of it, maybe put it on AT shirt.

45:41

I don't know.

I was just going to say it kind of has like a, it's an episode that weirdly had an almost intimate feel to it because it did almost feel very personal.

Like that one doll was almost, like you mentioned, almost connecting the experiences together with what you'd experienced and seen.

45:59

And then Diane coming in and obviously picking up on some of that, and then the uncanny way that that happened, but it all.

Felt a bit psychic.

I mean, there's some she, I mean, I think she even says on camera at one point, you know, I'm not always right.

46:15

I'm not always that accurate, but a lot of the times I I strangely connect and she just kind of got this intuitive nature about her.

And you know that as I say, she didn't have much information, but there's two or three other events walking around that place inside.

I'm just going to check, Yep, she's got that right.

46:32

Yep, she's got that right and there's no way she would have known.

She certainly didn't know what happened to me.

I'd not shared any of that information with her.

And it was afterwards that I said, or later on in the night after what happened happened, I said right, well, I don't know why you chose that doll, but it chose us, you know, probably 2 weeks beforehand.

46:51

Very odd.

But like I said, it did.

It almost had that intimate feel.

There was something personal about it and the the whole episode had this almost bubble.

Like almost, you know, sensory pod type experience in the sense that it felt very enclosed.

47:09

It was it was very in case, you know, you had the outside sounds, but then everything that was happening on the inside, it was almost this this sensory kind of bombardment with the the sounds from everywhere that couldn't be couldn't be discerned as to where they were coming from.

47:27

It it did.

It almost had that cavernous kind of feeling of being inside an echo chamber like a, a sensory pod where everything was happening.

And it was very personal to the the dolls that you had and the the investigators.

47:44

I mean, it was eerie.

It was really eerie the way that it played out.

A lot of personal, a lot a lot of it.

It really does.

I mean, 9 times out of 10, I'm drawn into proceedings whether I like it or not.

And this is kind of another reason why I've ended up in front of the camera because yes, there's only a couple of us there on each occasion, But you know, the, the, the, every time I'm out, there's all right, OK, it's that that time is it?

48:12

There's something pulling up my shirt on my right shoulder each time there's this, this feeling that there's something behind me.

There's something watching.

It's really too close for comfort.

And, and it, you can almost let you watch by it.

It's weird.

And it's also happened when I've been out filming on other shows.

48:30

I've seen something in broad daylight on another show, which is completely non paranormal related, you know, So I think we, we, we don't, we can't work out what's happening.

Are we having this amazing run of good luck?

48:46

Are we sort of willing these things into existence?

Is it that we're just going sort of open minded with the right teams?

Are we throwing more equipment at it than people normally do and spending more hours in post production listening to every single little thing we don't know?

49:02

I mean, I'm not complaining, obviously, because I'm thrilled with what's, I'm thrilled with the outcome.

I'm thrilled with the shows that that are coming out of this.

But we still don't know what the what that little X Factor is.

Maybe we never will.

Who knows?

And you really have had some blinding moments so far in every single episode.

49:22

And again, each of them very different.

I mean, thinking to Episode 2 at the Savoy Theatre where you have the the missing pane of glass.

I mean, I'm still scratching my head as to what on earth happened there.

I mean, it's incredible.

I don't know if you want to kind of take him through that moment.

49:41

Yeah, that one was so preposterous that I didn't believe it on the night at all.

I wasn't even interested in that story to, to be quite honest with you.

So there's a storm and it was like a huge storm.

Iowa which which was sweeping across South Wales and it was noisy as anything in there.

50:00

So we'd we'd never experienced being there in the dark on an evening.

And it's got all these old fans in the ceiling, which are big heavy industrial sort of iron things.

But they were moving and they were grinding and obviously not moved in a lot of years.

It's like when they moved and heard this horrible noise that and you can't locate where it's coming from.

50:20

So it took quite a while for people to even understand what the sounds were that we were listening to.

It says in the piece like, you know, they've got to sit there and figure out what's normal before they can understand what on earth could possibly be paranormal, if anything.

So that's all going on.

And then no one in that investigation is really a fan of gadgets and technology.

50:42

And I think at one point I just whipped out a phone with a Ghost Tube app on it whilst you're in between setting up shots.

And it started saying some quite funny things and some quite odd things.

And it was like he was, he was referring to Andy when he was doing stuff.

51:00

And it would, he was like, he was like, he was an observer of, of what was happening in the room.

So we just left it there.

And that became like a key player in the story.

But as far as I was concerned, that was kind of kind of became the story because a personality came out of that that felt like he was taking the Mick out of all of us, to be quite honest, most of the time.

51:20

And it would finish sentences before they're spoken.

But when they're, you know, they're in full flow and someone's about to say something and it just drops that word out, which is very, very odd.

But yeah, then towards the end of the investigation, Craig goes towards a window and he's and he's all confused and he's like, I'm sure there's, there's a missing pane of glass there And, and, and I'm sure it was there before.

51:47

I'm like, really.

OK.

And then Andy was really into it and I was kind of like distracted and tired and wanting to think about wrapping up with interviews and getting out of there because it's 5:00 in the morning, we have to drive out of Wales in a storm.

52:03

So it was pretty full on.

So I kind of ignored most of it.

And and then Andy was insistent.

He's just just let me get this get get, let me get the rest of this story.

And I was like, all right, all right, we'll check later and we'll see.

You know, we don't know if there was a piece of glass there or not.

And I kind of assumed that there wasn't.

52:19

Again, first thing I do when I get back, I, after a bit of a kit, look through all the rushes and, and try and decipher whether there's a piece of glass there.

And again, that 360 camera came into its own because you can scan around the whole space when someone was walking down a corridor with it.

52:37

And I was like, Oh my God.

And and so I could pinpoint the exact time that the glass was last seen.

And then we went off and did the esters method and weird, weird, weird things were spoken in that from the app and from the Estes method.

52:52

And then Craig notices a difference in sound and probably in temperature because suddenly it's cold because there's an open window, discovers a missing pane of glass and it's not on the floor outside and it's not been blown in.

So where's the piece of glass gone?

53:09

And I, I, I rang.

We do a little footnote at the end of each episode.

I I, I rang the owner.

I said I think I know the answer to this question, but are you missing a pane of glass?

He's like, it's weird.

You tell that this was on a Monday morning.

53:24

Yeah, Yeah.

One of the ushers or whatever noticed yesterday, this was five weeks after the event, that they noticed that this pane of glass was missing.

But I can see that at 12:30 that night, it was in place, and at 1:30 it was not in place.

53:41

So it went during our Ester session.

Why?

But there's, there's literally laughter coming out of the the ghost app and a lot of talk about this, this whole, the whole piece is called accident because somebody had allegedly at some point in time fallen from the, the top tier balcony and died in there.

54:05

And it just kept repeating accident, accident, accident, accident as if it was being accused of something then and he was trying to deny it.

So strange.

But yeah, that the missing pane of glass.

Utter mystery makes no sense.

54:21

But all I can say, hand on heart, that one hour period is is when it it vanished.

And it vanished in a storm, but not on whether the wind is whipping through the building.

I was going to blow it out or we'd we'd have heard that or we'd have seen the evidence of it because there'd be broken glass somewhere and there and there wasn't just the wild.

54:39

Well, if it is a spirit or why would it do that?

I mean, it's bizarre and the fact that it kind of came during that quite intense kind of it part of the investigation where you really were getting some really quite uncanny hits where you had different things coming through different devices that really did seem to kind of bring what felt like a story coming together.

55:07

You know, it made sense.

There were things that were being verified and things that were coming through in more than one way.

And then to have this happen around that same time frame, I again, I just think adds to the mystery.

I mean, you've got the fact that you have this missing pane of glass, but to have that alongside what else was happening in the same space.

55:30

I mean, it just gives you tells them.

It raises so many questions because it's just so odd and sits so mysteriously around what else was happening at the same time.

So if I was writing and this was, I was writing the format for this show and it was a piece of fiction and I'd feel pleased with myself because I'd come up with that one and I'd go and write the next one.

55:52

It's in the House of Frankenstein.

I'd want to, you know, repeat that format.

Wouldn't I'd want to come up with something equally bizarre to end the piece on?

And I'm not sure I'd be able to in the way that that one happened.

So that had a very similar outcome as well.

56:09

There's not a missing pen and glass or anything, but there's just this very, very strange impossibility that we end on that just, as you say, leaves you with chills and leaves you with a lot of a lot of questions, but no rational explanation for how it could have happened.

56:26

So a door essentially closes in front of our investigators, slams behind them.

But we discover after the event, there's, it's on a latch that can only be you have to twist the handle from the inside to close the door and there's nobody there.

So I wake up at 4:00 in the morning that night thinking I've been hard.

56:47

This is a theatrical place.

There's trapdoors.

There's there's a little rat run through the ceiling.

And, you know, and I was convinced.

And so I called the guy the next day and had to become so spare and absolutely not.

You can see through the footage where you look around the room.

57:02

They investigate the room as well.

There's no trapdoors.

There's no hidden passages.

There's one way out, and that's through the window, which was shot on locks at the time.

But it's also like 5 stories up on a very steep roof.

So there's nobody there on the inside of that room that could have closed that door.

57:19

And again, the investigators are all stumped.

Skeptics kept Kerr for one, Katie Goodland as well.

Very scientific approach to everything she does.

And they're all just standing there scratching their heads going, yeah, it's a pane of glass syndrome again.

57:36

It's like, how, why, what?

We, we just don't know, Don't.

Know, but again, I think what's so great is you see the reactions of those investigators, you see Kev's total scratching the head.

57:53

I mean, he really genuinely thought he was, there was someone on the other side of the door.

You know, the fact that he was calling out and saying, look, I just need to know who's on the other side.

You see it play out, You see what he's thinking that the approach of skeptically someone has to be on the other side of the door.

58:10

And you see almost the thinking that the steps that he goes through, which again, is such a unique position to be able to be in as the person watching this.

But the same thing happens with the, with the pane of glass.

You know, we see it in real time.

58:25

We see the reactions, we're seeing the, the thinking and the processing that's almost happening inside the, the minds of the investigators, which again, makes it so much more real.

It's so much more emotive in the sense that we understand and we're feeling what the, the investigators are feeling.

58:44

And it's incredibly immersive because we are, we're experiencing it with them.

And you know, like you, I had the same, same questions.

I mean, the door that you mention and Kev's experience where he's on the other side, I'm still scratching my head.

59:00

I've got no rational explanation for that whatsoever.

Can't help you There, there, there isn't 1.

And again, that's what makes it all so fascinating.

That's what makes us just want to keep doing it.

59:15

But every time you do 1, something happens.

You think we've had our chips now that that's it, you know, we're going to be just hitting blanks like everybody else does, and then we go out and then another weird thing.

So yeah.

Incredible though, how all of these kind of these things are happening and obviously you're filming and you know, your role there is to document to record.

59:39

But the fact is you do get brought into it, which I get, I think again, offers a a different and unique perspective because you know, just thinking to the the episode with the Savoy Theatre, with the experiences that you were having, having with the the camera equipment, the fact that you're also able to give that perspective of what you're experiencing.

1:00:04

As soon as those things happen to me and and my camera is affected by something that I can't explain, there's nobody else who can jump in and help the viewer with that.

It has to come from the person who's experienced it.

And that's what I've found with this.

1:00:20

I've I've never been in front of the camera in my life, probably with good reason.

I'm not very good at it.

I'm not, I'm not very theatrical.

I can't present, I can't act all that stuff.

And I'm a bit camera shy.

If I'm, if I'm honest, it's not, it's not what I choose to do.

I'm behind the camera.

1:00:36

And with this one, just bit by bit, I've just been brought out, brought out all something happens.

As I say, there's somethings on my shoulder and Andy will pan the camera to me and I'm like, all right, that's that's me.

And the story then and it just keeps keeps on happening.

But yeah, I think that that level of authenticity is what's gained from it.

1:00:55

And and and that's also come from embracing YouTube rather than trying to make this for a broadcaster.

You know, that's what gives, that's what helps make it really intimate, because I'll just be as, as as honest as I am and just say, well, I don't know.

1:01:13

My, my, my tripod took a nosedive by itself and it's fully locked up.

Doesn't make sense.

It shouldn't do that.

It just shouldn't do that.

It's a very expensive bit of equipment.

You know, it's locked off because I use it every day.

It's a locked off tripod.

1:01:30

Why is the shot moving?

I'm not touching it.

Yeah, it's just.

And then to have it validated by the ghost app laughing, she said, I think she says, is that you moving John's camera?

And then it says, yes, succeed, ha, ha.

1:01:47

And I'm like, wow, that is just, yeah.

And but your reaction that was captured as part of that again, you can't fake that.

It's I think you hit on the right word.

It brings authenticity to it.

You, you don't everything about the reactions of the investigators yourself, everybody that's part of, you know, the production of bringing this together.

1:02:11

What is shown to the audience is exactly what was experienced.

And again, when you have that level of authenticity, it's that awe and wonder that we've been talking about.

We.

Understand what you're thinking and your reaction to that is because we're seeing it play out as it happened.

1:02:29

So again, it's so much more immersive for that reason.

We are there with you.

We're experiencing it with you in real time.

Yeah, well, great.

I mean, that's that's a nice thing to hear obviously from somebody who's a bit camera shy.

But yeah, I'm brought brought more and more into the future episodes in Warwick Castle and he's filming me a lot.

1:02:52

And we did a little experiment that I set up on camera.

And then in the Bath theatrical costume hire, I'm brought into doing Esther's method, make a bit of a fool of myself, but there we go.

Sort of part of the fun.

And that one was weird.

1:03:08

We we we had Kate Ray, who's an amazing investigator who brings a whole lot of enthusiasm to everything she does.

And yeah, it's called Playtime that those two episodes with with good reason, because things come out to play and have a lot of fun.

1:03:27

It's it's, yeah, I think probably for me so far, Episode 8, which is obviously still to come, is the most interesting because it's got a relentless string of activity, a bit like what we're talking about in Monmouth.

It's just like one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next for this one just kind of beggars belief.

1:03:47

There's clearly somebody else hanging out with us and, and playing and having a lot of fun and all the devices are going off all the time in response.

And.

Yeah, again, the, the kind of preconceptions of these things, it's like, you know, when you first start talking to people what I'm doing and they're like, Oh my God, I couldn't do that.

1:04:07

It's so scary.

It's like the amount of times I've been scared.

I mean, you can count on one hand and mainly in Nottingham in that basement for 5 minutes.

Other than that, it's it's a lot of fun.

But that investigation there with Kate where it's just like all night, all the three of us are in there, me, Andy and Kate.

1:04:26

And it was just just, yeah, it was literally play time.

We just, we were all kind of laughing about it, really.

But there was there was at least four of us there, let's put it that way.

At least.

Maybe more.

So.

1:04:42

Yeah, that's that.

That might well be my favorite episode though.

We'll have to all keep that in mind when we're obviously waiting for the for the episodes to drop that are coming.

We will.

I'll certainly be looking out for that one because Kate is the is a brilliant investigator and obviously she does have a very different approach.

1:05:01

And so, yeah, I think it will make for a very, very interesting episode to to see her approach to a location and and like you said, to to see what happens because it sounds intense.

Yeah, it was.

And and so we like to send investigators in blind where possible.

1:05:22

So Lucy Bilton did the episode 7, the first half of episode 7, and she went in absolutely blind with her husband Chris Howley.

They just had coordinates to meet us in a car park.

We rigged the camera, rigged the car with cameras, sent them in via what, 3 words?

1:05:41

They arrived at the location, investigate and it was as brutal as that.

She had quite a good hit rate, success rate, marrying up the story from the owner with what she felt and experienced while she was there.

1:05:58

And then Kate completely went in blind because she remote viewed the property from elsewhere.

So she'd never seen it, She'd never been there.

And she entered remotely and told us her story of what she'd seen and heard and experienced and then went into the building for real and we believe, met some of the same characters that she'd already forged a relationship with remotely.

1:06:27

I mean, yeah, that is.

One to watch.

One to watch, I would say definitely, but also watch this space because there's, there's more things like that that we really want to do just exploring more than a haunted property venue, business house or whatever.

1:06:43

That's all good.

But you know, there's, there's lots of other experiments that we like to do in that sort of medium space, that psychological space.

So yeah, there's, there's a lot of fun still to come.

1:06:58

All we need to do is just, if we can just make this a sustainable thing.

We, we're trying to build a channel here.

We're trying to build a platform which will enable us just to keep making this stuff.

And we'll just keep reinvesting if we can start, you know, all we need is eyeballs, really people just to watch it.

1:07:15

And then if we get sufficient eyeballs, we can keep making more and, and we'll just keep pushing things really and, and, and see where it takes us.

And obviously be open to, I'm hoping we'd reach a stage where people will come to us and say, hey, I've got this amazing thing and this amazing story, this amazing experience or whatever that we can then go and investigate.

1:07:37

So yeah, certainly a lot of fun stuff to look forward to.

Absolutely.

And I think you kind of raise something that is a great way to kind of finish our conversation.

I mean, you, you mention the importance of people watching and supporting.

1:07:53

Where's the, the best place for people to watch, to follow, to know what's coming ahead, to really support what you're doing and get behind Supernatural UK?

What would you, what would you say to them?

The the, the only and the the main and the only way really to help us is just to watch them and they're free.

1:08:12

They're free to anybody.

They're on YouTube.

They they release 7:00 every Monday. 3 so far, seven more to come if I had it the last two in time I'm sure we will, it'll all be fine.

So just just watch on YouTube, subscribe.

1:08:29

Subscribe is a great help.

Even if you don't like it, just subscribe.

That would that would be brilliant.

So really it's just views and subscribes that that help us and push us through.

We've had just a context.

We've been going for three weeks.

We've got 1000 / 1000 subscribers now and that's kind of the threshold for YouTube to start taking you seriously.

1:08:48

And then we need 4000 watched hours.

We're kind of halfway there I think.

So it's all happening.

It's kind of got that ground as well as it is.

So that's YouTube forward slash at the Supernatural UK.

The is very important.

So every, every platform we're on is at the Supernatural UK.

1:09:06

So it's YouTube, there's a Facebook page, there's Instagram and there's a TikTok.

Not quite sure I've got TikTok, but I'm told that that's what you need to do.

So we just keep putting on out the short stuff on TikTok to see if we can point more people towards the YouTube.

1:09:22

But yeah, it's, it's all about YouTube for us right now and it's growing rapidly, getting some good numbers and it's all very exciting.

And I will of course make sure to include those links and everything so that they're easily found as part of the episode description notes and obviously put them up onto the, the website as well so that people can find them easily.

1:09:45

I mean, I've already, I've got a blog out on the website so people can kind of have a read through in terms of my reactions from the first 3 episodes just to kind of get a flavour.

And obviously again, there's links in there that can easily take you to the episodes themselves.

But I would just echo what you said, you know, watch, share them, talk about them, you know, send them to a friend if they've got a passing interest or a really into it, you know, just help spread the word because, you know, we, there are so many things out there, but this is something different.

1:10:17

And I think it's, it's making people aware of it.

And that only comes through following and liking and helping spread the word.

And that's something we can all do for free because it's, it's such a great adventure that I think you're going on.

And, you know, the sky is the limit in terms of where else you could explore.

1:10:38

I mean, you could.

There's so many places, literally so many places.

It's the other thing that we like to do.

So there is a Patreon which we've not got up and running yet.

I mean, it's quite, it's not there, but it's dormant at the moment.

But what we'd like to do with that is offer more sort of participatory stuff for people at home or people into it.

1:11:01

So we might be able to offer like uncut sections of some of the, I don't know, the sounds is the estimate.

Some of the big moments that have happened within the series, we might put big uncut chunks on there that people can look at themselves.

We might run some of the 360 footage of, you know, so you can actually be in in the room for some of those things that have happened and judge for yourself what happened rather than take our word for it.

1:11:24

You can hear the things that happened and, and see the things that happened.

And then we want to do some more sort of quite unique participatory stuff that can get people more involved if they're excited by what we're doing.

So that that's a bit down the line, but it's there.

We've got things in place for that, and it's starting to happen.

1:11:42

Just we just need to get our first set of episodes out first, get the first raft out, and then we can move towards that stuff.

And yeah, maybe get some tarot cards with your names on them, who knows.

Oh, I'm so buying that if you do.

We'll make you one actually, Michelle for sure.

1:12:01

Honestly, I'm.

Don't, as that's that's the thing, you know, you need to put your little tag on the bottom, your little moniker of what it is and what we'd happily make you on.

I'm just so excited, though, to see where this is going because I just, it is such an it's an adventure and I think the audience gets to go along with you and, you know, you get, you just get to see so many different styles and locations and I'm so excited for where else you go.

1:12:26

I'm so excited for the episodes that I, you know, you've already filmed, but the potential of where else you could go and who else you get to work with because yeah, again, the there, there doesn't seem to be any limit to that.

And I, I can't recall being this excited about something that's come through as a as a new venture in the paranormal in forever.

1:12:49

So I'm just, I'm, I literally can't talk.

I'm so excited for where it's going to go.

So very cool.

Thank you.

Well, the other thing as well, it's like, you know, I'm saying it's not like a vehicle for the investigators, but the episodes are.

But also what is quite cool now the thought of, you know, Justin and Diane, for example, Craig and Amy, you know, whatever the combinations are going back and doing something else.

1:13:13

So now the viewers get to know them.

We can put them into other situations.

And we we are, we be kind of jokingly saying we're going to put some of the skeptics through through the ringer a little bit, but, you know, only in, in the name of science and exploration and all the rest of it.

1:13:29

But yeah, I think there's it's cool that there's the platform being set up for the investigators as well.

And yeah, it's a lot of fun to be had there.

But it's just, it's just great that they're all becoming sort of characters in their own right.

And those relationships are being forged on camera and and pushing those forward into new investigations.

1:13:50

I think it'll be a lot of fun as well.

Yeah, I think Mulder and Scully has become a very real thing when it comes to to Diane and Justin as a as a kind of a theme tune for their episode, because that's exactly what it was like, just in reverse.

It's funny, I was I heard that on the radio today, that Catatonia song.

1:14:07

I was thinking about those two.

Absolutely.

And and again, just you know, just how laid back Craig was.

I mean, just such a different approach and style that I would love to do an investigation with him just because he was so laid back.

It was brilliant.

1:14:23

He's got all these things happening around him, all, you know, quite literal maelstrom with the storm.

And he was just as cool as a cucumber in.

Front of him and he'd be sitting there going.

The source of that light is that's coming through.

1:14:40

You know what I mean?

He's he's, yeah.

He's it was great.

He was so he was so unprovoked.

He was so cool.

It was just brilliant.

And again, so very different.

And then of course, the the third episode, I mean, it was, it really was the nerd in me could appreciate the approach because it was just, again, very scientific, very methodical.

1:15:02

You know, the you had Kev there with the the skeptical mindset, just trying logically to process and piece together what he's experiencing and seeing.

And it was just, again, like you said, you you're seeing relationships form and styles play out that are so different, that allows you to connect in different ways from episode to episode.

1:15:23

So yeah, again, just so much more potential, I think, for the future.

Yeah, with those pairings.

I can't wait.

The only, the only thing we need literally to to make that happen.

It's so simple.

It's just those subscribes.

So it's like it's it's a win.

1:15:40

Win, I hope, yeah.

Honestly, it's, it was such a joy to be able to chat with you again about this.

It's so exciting.

And like I said earlier, I can't recommend this highly enough.

So I will do all I can to help put all of those details in so that if anyone's listening to this and hasn't come across it yet, you know, go find, find the first 3 episodes, see what's coming up, follow, like subscribe, do all of those things that help.

1:16:09

And like I said earlier, just help get the word out, spread it, spread the the news of the the show and share with other people if you can.

It's the easiest way.

We can all help so.

Thank you very much.

Really appreciate that.

Thank you, John, and I'll say goodbye to everybody listening.

1:16:26

Bye, everybody.

Thank you for joining us on this journey into the unknown.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.

You can follow us on social media for updates and more intriguing stories.

1:16:46

Until next time, keep your eyes open and your mind curious.

John Shackleton

Screenwriter, Filmmaker, TV Director

John Shackleton is a multi-skilled, creative and technical filmmaker and TV Director; with endless storytelling imagination, an unflinching vision, and a relentless drive to make great things happen.