How to Make Money With a Blog

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

Kristin:    00:00:23    I am so excited for today's episode about how to make a living with your blog with Robbie Strazynski, the founder of cardplayerlifestyle.com. Robbie started blogging as a side hustle more than 10 years ago with no prior experience, but ultimately was able to leave his career as a corporate marketing executive to focus a hundred percent on his passion for poker and writing. This episode is full of tips and lessons for how to succeed at turning your side hustle into your full-time job. Robbie shares behind the scenes of his business with us from how he comes up with article ideas to which content performs the best on his site, and importantly how he makes money with his blog. We also discuss how to find your passion, why negative feedback is good, and of course his favorite travel destinations. We talk about all of the exotic places he's been able to travel to in his work with Poker Media, and whether you play poker or not, <laugh>, like me, I'm sure you'll find a ton of value, motivation, and encouragement in this conversation.  

Kristin:    00:01:45    Robbie's positive can-do attitude is definitely an inspiration. This interview was a year in the making, so I hope you enjoy.

Podcast Interview:

Kristin: Thank you Robbie, so much for being here on the podcast. This is very embarrassing, but we've been trying to do this for a year. I just checked my email history, so <laugh>, thank you for, for coming on the show, and, um, I'm so excited to share your story with everybody and everything that you've accomplished, and it's just such a great lesson about consistency and persistence and believing in yourself and starting something out of nothing. And, you know, both of us have been working. I've been in the poker industry now for almost 10 years, and you've been in it longer little bit, and it's so funny that we're, you know, we're both still here, but a lot of big poker companies and media companies have come and gone during that time. So it's really gonna be just a great lesson for everybody who's listening. But let's start off--

Robbie:    00:02:51    I hope so and I wanna just say also great things come to those who wait. And this is certainly an opportunity worth waiting for. Like you said, I know you've been around for quite a while, and I think that's pretty awesome. Like, you know, the, you don't find too many people who've been around for 10 years or, or that length of time anymore. So certainly worth the wait. And I'm really happy that I finally get to speak with you like this. It's great.  

Kristin:    00:03:13    Yeah. Um, I, I myself am a victim of impatience sometimes, and I heard a quote by, I'm really into electronic music and I've learned how to DJ during the quarantine <laugh>. And so I follow all of these DJs on Instagram, and one of them said as a music producer, and he said, your career starts at 10 years.

Robbie:   Wow.

Kristin:  And I sent it to one of my DJ friends because he's been doing it for 10 years. He has his own record label. And, um, he, he gets frustrated sometimes 'cause he feels like he should be farther along. And I sent him that post and he's like, I really needed to hear this today.

Robbie:    00:03:53    Wow. That's definitely encouraging because, uh, it's good to know that there's a lot more to go <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:03:59    Yeah. And I, now that I know that, I see examples of it everywhere. Like, I write on Medium and I look at other writers and they've been writing for like 10 years, 12 years, and I'm like, oh, yeah, it takes, it can take 10 years to like, get started. You look at Gary Vaynerchuk and people like that. So it's good to, it's good to hear that because a lot of people look like overnight successes and they're really not.  

Robbie:    00:04:23    Yep. That's what I always say, the overnight success that took 10 years to happen. Absolutely. <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:04:28    Exactly. So tell us a little bit about your, um, background. What was your previous career? Because it wasn't just doing media and content in the poker industry. What were you doing before and what made you decide to start a blog?  

Robbie:    00:04:46    So it sort of ties together. Um, I started the blog in November, 2009 with a buddy as sort of like a side pursuit. Um, I had been working, uh, full-time in, you know, in and out for about, uh, I wanna say close to a decade, um, in both the English, foreign English second language, uh, curriculum, education type, uh, industry, as well as gaming gambling industry here in Israel where I live. Um, and just basically using English. That's my main tool that I have my main asset living here. Um, they needed a native English speaker to do that sort of work. Um, and I found both of them interesting and rewarding in different ways. Obviously you can't get, uh, two more polar opposites than, you know, <laugh>, uh, teaching little kids, uh, English, uh, and then, uh, you got, you know, gaming and gambling. Uh, but both of them proved, um, you know, very useful, instructive.  

Robbie:    00:05:50    And I made a lot of good friends along the way, uh, during those years. And at some point, one of my friends here locally where I live, he was like, Hey, let's start a blog. I'm like, okay, <laugh>, what, what does that mean? What does that mean to start a blog? And he says, well, you know, poker, you follow it, you play it, and you know what's going on in the poker industry and you know how to write. And I was saying by himself, shout out to Avi. Um, he said, well, I know how to build a website, WordPress, get all that sort of stuff set up, and we'll just start. I was like, okay. I didn't know who I was writing for. I didn't know who was listening, who was gonna, you know, start reading anything that I had to say or anything like that.  

Robbie:    00:06:31    But I said, okay, couldn't hurt. And he said, maybe we can make a few bucks along the way. That was basically how the idea germinated just a conversation between us. He took some time to set up all the stuff on the backend, and I think my first post was, uh, Definition of Poker or Summary of Poker or something like that. I didn't know, I didn't really even know who I was writing for. Um, I'll just fast forward that first two and a half year stretch. I was learning more and more like sort of getting into my own as a, a writer that I have something of value to offer, uh, and to whom and understanding a little bit more who my audience is, as well as along the way, learning from Avi all of as much as possible about web mastering, WordPress, HTML, uh, the types of things and, and, and tools and skills you need to run, uh, a website. So that happened during those first two and a half years, and then we sort of went separate ways. I bought him out and since then it's been only me.  

Kristin:    00:07:33    And so what year was that that you started?  

Robbie:    00:07:36    I started in, well, the, the, the blog, the, the URL cardplayerlifestyle.com hit the air on November 29th, 2010, 2009.

Kristin:  Wow.

Robbie:  2009.  

Kristin:    00:07:49    Okay. 2009. Okay. Yeah. So yeah. And then I started Poker Refugees in 2011.  

Robbie:    00:07:56    Right. Oh, well that's, that's the time to do it, <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:07:59    Yeah. Yeah. That was the time. Yeah. Um, wow. 2009. And, um, I saw that you wrote in an email last year that you grew your blog from zero to 20,000 visitors per month.

Robbie:   Yeah.

Kristin:     Um, what is it at now?  

Robbie:    00:08:19    Well, we, uh, so that was a year ago. I actually just broke 30,000 for the first time. That was last month. Uh, June, 2020 was just unbelievable. Um, in a funny way, like these, you know, I hate to say the silver lining of the whole pandemic going along is there's a lot more organic traffic. A lot more people are searching for, uh, terms related to poker and people who are just, you know, sitting at home on lockdown, they're looking forms of entertainment things to keep them occupied and to learn from. So, you know, my site is one that is benefiting from it in that way and just genuinely seeing a lot of higher traffic in this last quarter. And, uh, yeah. Broke 30,000 and hopefully gonna keep it going, uh, as long as I possibly can and, and keep the, the momentum moving upwards.  

Kristin:    00:09:04    Yeah. Actually a lot of people have been looking for stuff about remote work, work from home, and then also poker, so we have that in common. And I remember that you had a, a graph that showed your traffic and it looked really low for years.  Is that correct?

Robbie:   Yes. It is.

Kristin:      Yeah. And then it sounds like it has kind of doubled year af-- Sorry, there was someone knocking. No problem. And it sounds like it has kind of grown exponentially, like doubling year over year in recent years. So can you explain a little bit of how long it took you to start seeing exponential growth in your traffic? Because a lot of people think that if they're doing the work and they're not getting results immediately, that something's not working. So can you kind of take us through that journey? Like what were the, were the things that you were changing during that time? Uh, was it just consistency and did you feel like giving up? Or were you like, no, eventually it's gonna work, I just have to figure it out?  

Robbie:    00:10:12    So, okay. So the, after the analogy to, to address the specifics of your question, um, I would say first and foremost, and I'll probably say it at the end of my answer to this question as well, what kept me going, uh, and what got me started has always sort of been the same thing, is that I love doing this. So those first few years when I was seeing, I don't know, a couple dozen people visit the site each day, or a few hundred each month, I was really happy. I was like, wow, that, that a few hundred people wanna see what I'm writing or wanna see what, what's being published. And that's great, that's awesome. And I didn't, wasn't doing it for the money. Um, like I said, I was sort of doing it as a, a side gig while I was working. I only eventually became self-employed and independent, um, in March of 2017.  

Robbie:    00:11:07    So all that entire time, I was always doing it nights and weekends. And, you know, slowly but surely the progress of it, like the more people I saw that motivated me to do more, it was, it was more of a positive cycle. Not, oh, I'm only seeing so many, I should put, you know, more effort. Or maybe I'll give up. It was actually exactly the opposite. It's the more that I cared to do, I saw the more people who were responding to it, the more active I began to get on social media, the more I started writing and publishing. I mean, it's, it's the quite obvious fact of the matter. The more often you publish, the more people are gonna see. If the newspaper looks exactly the same every day online, you're gonna go to it less and less just a, a behavioral psychology, uh, type mechanism.  

Robbie:    00:11:54    So, um, I found it that the more effort I put into producing more content, the more people came more naturally. I slowly developed, um, my niche as well. I realized, Hey, I can't compete with Poker News. You know, I'm not there on the ground. I can't, I can't go to every single event. I'm not gonna report hands what, you know, what exactly can I do that's unique, that's different that the other sites don't do. Uh, and I slowly started to discover that, you know, in the forms of interviews, some op-eds some lists, um, lifestyle pieces, you know, in accordance with the name Card Player -- cardplayerlifestyle.com. And, um, you know, when I really came into my own, in a sense, that's when I, I would say that the, the numbers started growing in tandem. You know, the organic, I've never paid for traffic, uh, that I've, like all of that traffic that you see, you know, when it was 200 a month or 20,000 or 30,000, never paid for any traffic.  

Robbie:    00:12:48    Um, and I've tried to do things, you know, on, on the social media aspect of things of build a genuine, very genuine network of relationships with people. And, you know, when I was able to begin flying out to different events and just meet as many people as possible, 'cause that just builds your ability to build more content. Oh, what, well, we've, we've met, we've had lunch, we've played poker together. Hey, maybe we can, you know, do a little bit of an interview and get to know you a little bit better. Um, and slowly but surely I realized, Hey, Robbie, you know, again, this is through the years. It's hard to put an exact, uh, timestamp on this, but you can't do this all on your own. You know, there is no reason why other people can't write for your website. Right? So, so long as you maintain that editor in chief type of role, if you're the only one who hits publish, but you've got, you know, half a dozen, a dozen, two dozen different people over time, you know who you integrate in as contributing writers.  

Robbie:    00:13:46    You don't have to put them on salary, but they can all be freelancers. They're happy to write for a up and coming and now established type of poker media outlet. That's pretty darn cool. And you continue to act as the overseer, the promoter of all said content. And you know, at this point, it's gotten to the point where I'm doing, you know, a quarter to a third of the writing and doing plenty of promotion. And that snowball has gotten bigger and, you know, getting more freelance writers. So that, that's sort of over time the process of how the site has grown very organically. Um, and just keeping at it, you know, there have been times where I've taken a little bit of time off, uh, just for, for human reasons, you want to take a vacation? But I've said, okay, I've got four or five pieces of content prepared in advance, and I'll slow release them to make sure that, you know, dust doesn't start collecting.  

Robbie:    00:14:40    And, you know, I can log in for a little bit and just promote it and then go back off to my vacation. And, and that's fine. Um, but it's my baby. It's something that I've loved. Um, you know, and, and again, that having built an audience over time continue to keep me motivated. Getting any sort of feedback is always wonderful. Whether it's an email, even if it's negative or constructive, it still tells me, Hey, people care enough that they don't like it. People care enough to tell me this stinks. You know? That's great. Thank you for <laugh> reading my sight. And I, and I always take that in, you know, the best possible way and try to grow from it and, and get better.  

Kristin:    00:15:21    Oh my gosh, there was so much value in what you just said that I'm, I hope I don't forget anything <laugh>, because you said so much. Um, I wanna get to how you monetize the, the blog and your tips to other people who want to start a blog. But first, let's just review a few of the things that you said there.

Robbie:   Sure.

Kristin:    I mean, looking at your traffic of a few people, or a few dozen people or a hundred people per month and valuing it is so important because it's all about perspective. And what people forget about growing a blog or a brand or a podcast or whatever it is, is that once you get to a certain milestone, like 100 views or 100 reads or 100 downloads or whatever that metric is, you keep moving the bar. So it's like, yes, people like Casey Neistat with however many millions of,

Robbie:   I love that.

Kristin:     YouTube subscribers, I'm sure he wants more.  

Kristin:    00:16:25    Like he might have, I don't know how many he has, if he has 5 million, he probably wants 10 million. Sure. And it's like, it's never enough. But when one person is enough, it's enough. Yes. And you can really focus on the message and the content and the quality of that content and what's in it, and not how many people are reading it. Because if, like, if you saved one person's life, I'm not saying that content saves people's lives, but like, let's say I used to be a lifeguard and I saved a man who was drowning when I was like six. I think I was 15. And he actually got mad at me that it took me so long to get to him. 'cause he was really, really far out. And I was covering like two miles of beach by myself. Oh man. I had to call for backup.  

Kristin:    00:17:17    It was crazy. But, you know, I felt bad in the moment because he had this oxygen mask on and he was like yelling at me <laugh> like, what's took you so long? But if you save one person's life from a burning building or from drowning or whatever it is, like your life would be set, you know, for the rest of your life. You could be like, oh my gosh, I saved this person, or this dog, or this soul. But if you write something or create something that helps somebody and changes somebody's life, like why is that not enough for people? why does it have to be a hundred thousand people? And I actually just wrote an article a few weeks ago on Medium about this, because I've been writing on Medium for years since before you could make money at it.  

Kristin:    00:18:08    And when you started to be able to make money at it, I put a lot of my articles behind the paywall. 'cause I'm like, great, now I can like make an income. 'cause I'm spending so much time writing on here. And I made some money, like, you know, like a few hundred dollars or like a thousand dollars here and there on articles. And then I had an article go viral.  And it's made like over $6,000 so far. And because that article went viral, I wrote an article about why it doesn't matter <laugh> if your article goes viral. Mm. Because as my article was going viral, and I looked at the statistics and I was like, holy crap, there's like 200,000 people reading this article right now. Wow. All I did was close the website and go surfing because <laugh> Yeah. It was the weekend.  

Kristin:    00:18:56    And I was like, I'm gonna go surfing now. Yeah. And then I wrote more articles the next day because that's what writers do. Yep. And so I wrote this article about how, you know, these are six reasons why it doesn't matter if zero people read your articles or if zero people clap for your articles. Because if you get one message or one comment or one message from somebody saying that they liked that article or they didn't like it, or what they had a question about it or whatever, then it's like, that is the reason for making that thing that you made. And so I love that you appreciated the 12 people that read it as did I like by, um, a guy in my mastermind listened to my first DJ mix that I put on SoundCloud the other day. And he was like, I listened to it four times and I almost started crying <laugh>.

Robbie:   Oh, that's so cool.

Kristin:     And there were only 12 listens, I wanna say only, but uh, the first day there were three plays. And I was like, oh my God, a person who I don't know on the internet, listened to a mix that I made. Yep. And it was my first mix ever, almost fell out of my chair. Yeah. And that is the feeling that, that you wanna have when

Robbie:    00:20:14   I I would even take--

Kristin:    00:20:14    you're, you're starting out-- 

Robbie:    00:20:15    One step further and say it should, even if nobody sees it, you know, it mattered enough to you, you know? It's, it's that, it's that thing of like, your idea didn't stay in the desk drawer. You did something about it. You made it materialize. You put it out there in the world. There's a lot of fulfillment to be found even in that. And, you know, to take a a slightly less extreme example, there's plenty of times where I do put an article out and I say to myself, well, at this point, oh man, everyone's gonna love this. And, you know, it falls flat on its face for whatever reason. And I'm kind of stumped. I was like, well, you know, I wouldn't take it back. I still am happy I put it out there. And then sometimes you have something like, I have no idea why a thousand people read this, but okay, great. And, you know, onto the next one. You know, so at, at the end of the day, you just gotta enjoy the process, I think. And, and I think that helps sustain it. You know, it, it's a self perpetuating type of thing.  

Kristin:    00:21:12    One of the big writers on Medium, Nicholas Cole, I think he's only in his twenties still, but he has a multimillion dollar ghostwriting business.

Robbie:   Wow.

Kristin:   He wrote an article this week that said like, don't worry about views  don't worry about going viral. Like, don't worry about if something is good or bad. 'cause it's all subjective. You just have to show up every day

Robbie:   That's right.

Kristin:     To put something out there and that's it. Put in the green work. She loves writing. Yeah. And we love doing this. So that's a great, great lesson for, for people. Um, at what point, so you said that you transitioned full-time to the blog about two or three years ago. So in 2017. Um, how did you find time to work on the blog when you were working full-time? Or like how much did you work?  

Robbie:    00:22:01    Um, because it mattered to me and because I loved doing it, I just made the time. It's the kind of thing that over time, because it was a part-time gig, I did it nights and weekends. It's the type of thing I would sort of do anyway. It even goes back to what, you know, my, the, the co-founder of my buddy Avi said, you know, poker, you follow poker anyway, right? So in my nights and weekends when I wasn't busy, I was following it. And I was that, that's what I just wanted to do. You know, some people would just do more than Netflix. Some people, you know, go out and play sports or watch things, whatever it is. I am very into poker and I play poker. I have my home game, I'm a recreational player and all that stuff. And I just said, well, this is what I wanna do.  

Robbie:    00:22:49    So I slept less <laugh>, basically. Or, or like, I was just focused on it. I cared enough that, you know, and instead of doing other things, and it wasn't even a sacrifice, it's like, well, this is what I want to do. And as again, as there was sort of a additional motivation as I continued seeing more and more measures or metrics that, Hey, you know, this thing is getting bigger, then it makes me want to keep going. And quite frankly that there was sort of a turning point, you know, like you said, how did I find time when it was a full-time job? It began, I don't wanna say to be stressful, but it began to be sort of a thing of like, why am I not doing this full-time? And there, there, you know, it was a pretty significant side income for a side hustle at that point in time where I said, well, you know, I do wonder if I, if I can do this in whatever it was, 20, 25 hours a week, what if I was doing it full time?  

Robbie:    00:23:51    You know, maybe, maybe this could sort of be a, an inflection point. And had a, you know, had the conversation, a very important conversation with my wife, and we decided to try to take a risk of one year. I said, worst case scenario, you can always go back and, you know, continue working full-time. But that's when I would say I really became motivated. 'cause I loved the freedom and I was like, well, no, I don't want to go back to that. And as great as it was, as I, I had a really good career path, uh, I got pretty high up on the, you know, the corporate ladder. Uh, as far as like, I was the head of marketing at a very well-respected company here in Israel. Uh, good salary, good conditions, and, uh, benefits and all that sort of stuff. And I, you know, I, I don't wanna say I threw it away.  

Robbie:    00:24:38    I decided that this is more important to me of doing what I really, really love. I used, I was coming into work and as great the job as was, and I was like, I, I just can't wait to get back home and, and, and continue working on my website. Uh, and, and building things. So, um, that, that's, that, that's basically that, that sort of happened. Um, and, and it wasn't an overnight thing either. It was, it was a, a process that I went through mentally and, uh, you know, a lot of good intelligent conversations and a lot of, uh, you know, I needed a lot of support from my wife and also from friends, uh, you know, some very good friends who said, yeah, you can do this. You know, don't, don't worry about having the big master plan, the business plan. You keep doing what you're doing and you'll see that it will be successful. 'cause you're doing this for the right reasons. And, um, thankfully that has panned out.  

Kristin:    00:25:31    I love that because I think a lot of people have a, a confusion around what they could do to make money online. And it's really helpful to think that, okay, there's all of these different ways of making money online. If someone else is doing it successfully, then I can do it too. And you see, okay, people are making money at blogs. I can learn to make money blogging. And that's some a big takeaway that I think everybody should really think about because why not you <laugh>, you know? Like, if that's what you like to do. And it's a good example of how you can combine your passions with your skills. Because there was a time for a few years where it was all the buzz on the internet. Like what color, or even before the internet, it was, what color is your parachute?  

Kristin:    00:26:23    That book, I think it was in the seventies or something.

Robbie:  Okay.

Kristin:    And everything was all about passion. And then there was this concept of the passion myth that if you work in something that you're passionate about, that's not enough, and you can be broke and you can then hate your passion. And then it, like, flipped on its head. But I think it's neither one, I think it's something in the middle there's definitely hints and clues and natural, uh, curiosities that you have and natural talents you have and things that you gravitate towards. And then there's a skillset that you've developed. So it's like you, um, not just you, but everybody listening, this, this is relevant to everybody, but you took your skills from, uh, you probably drew on your teaching background, on your marketing background on networking and working in a corporate environment.  

Kristin:    00:27:15    And then you combined that with your passion for writing and poker and you created something out of it. And that's why I say there's as many ways to become a digital nomad or a remote worker as there are people in the world. Because you can take two or three things and make it and make it your own. And so I love that you, that you did that and that you used, uh, optimism grounded in realism, <laugh>, where you save money-- 

Robbie:   Love that, a great phrase. <laugh>


Kristin:     You, you saved money, you talked to your wife about it, you gave yourself a deadline of one year. And then you went for it. And then like 99% of everybody who tries working from home, you were like, let me continue doing this. This is good. 

Robbie:    00:27:59    Mm.  Yeah. Well, thank you. It's, uh, it's cool to hear that. Um, I do, I don't wanna say I, I have disclaimers, but I think there's some important things to note, um, is that I took a very conservative approach. There are people who would be, you know, younger or older, but primarily younger, I can say. You know, we'd start out at their, you know, early twenties and say, okay, let's just go for this. Let's go for broke. Right? I had three kids and a and, and a wife and obviously to support. 'cause both, you know, my wife is what works as well. We, we, we support each other as a family, but I had dependents and it wasn't a simple decision to go ahead and, and forego the, you know, the good job benefits, et cetera. It, it certainly had to be a conversation. It would not have ended.  

Robbie:    00:28:43    Well if I, you know, if I didn't get my wife's support, I, frankly, I wouldn't have gone for it. So it was a very much a, a joint venture in that sense of like, we mutually agreed that Robbie's gonna just give his best effort for a year. And we had our own little metrics of, you know, we've gotta, this has gotta be, you gotta reach at least certain levels for it to be considered viable. 'cause you know, it is the first year of a business after all. But if you can hit that, then okay, you're number two, year number three will hopefully be better. Um, and it was like a, a proper calculation. And, uh, you know, also, quite frankly, I had quote unquote proven results of those previous years, each year's side hustle income got bigger and bigger. So there was that at least a somewhat of a proof of concept.  

Robbie:    00:29:29    There are those out there who may be listening and have this idea and are just sort of starting off on their careers. And that's totally legitimate. If you don't, if if you've got the freedom and flexibility and you don't have people depending on you necessarily, maybe that's a better time to go ahead and take that risk. I wanna say I took a very, very conservative approach to it. Um, so I just, I, I wanna sort of hedge it in in that way. It's not like I just like, okay, let's, let's go dive in. Um, it, you know, some people will go ahead and accelerate and say, you know what? I'm not happy at my job. And, you know, two years, three years, four years into a career, they'll take a loan or business loan and, and go ahead and start that way. That's totally legitimate as well. I just wanna say that, you know, my personal particular approach was extremely conservative on that side. And, um, and yeah, it's, there's no magic fairy dust that falls from the sky that, uh, hey, this is going to work or not. And I just wanted to, as best as I could, try to make sure that the pieces were in place for it, uh, for it to work. Um.  

Kristin:    00:30:32    That's a, that's very encouraging. And it's also an argument for starting small and being happy that nobody's reading your blog at the beginning <laugh>, or that nobody's watching your videos for sure. Because, because they could be really, they could be really bad. And it just lowers that barrier to entry and it takes the pressure off. So I think instead of announcing this thing like, I have started a blogging empire, or I have started this thing, it's like, just start and just make it right and then announce it later. Just, you know, work out some of the details at first and--

Robbie:   For sure.  

Kristin:    00:31:09    And, and this DJ thing is a great example. 'cause this is something that like many people have spent 10 years, 20 years thinking about an idea that they wanna do, but being afraid to start it. Yeah. And I was the same way with, with a lot of things. You know, I was writing in my journal for 18 years, 20 years before I made anything public on a blog in 2007. And then I shut it down 'cause I got scared <laugh>.

Robbie:    Wow.

Kristin:    And then I didn't know what I was doing. And then I didn't write again for 10 years, my goodness. In public. And then I, I was writing, you know, in my journal, and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna start publishing again.  And then did it again. But like with the DJ thing, I was like, my goal is to, uh, be able to mix music at home

Kristin:    00:31:55    so that I can listen to good music, like by myself.

Robbie:   That's cool. That's cool.

Kristin:     It wasn't to share it with anyone or to go to a club and like actually do a set. It wasn't until I took class and the guys were like, yeah, you should make a SoundCloud page and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, I'll make it. But I didn't share it with anybody except for the guy in my mastermind. But that's it. Like, I put it up. Well now, now my podcast knows that it exists apparently. 'cause I'm talking about it. But like, yeah, I made it, it's been up there for a month and nobody knows about it, but like whoever was on SoundCloud and found it. So I think just having that, that that approach where you're like, I don't need to make money with this. It doesn't need to be very successful. I'm just doing it for fun. And then you play around with it for a few years and then it becomes a side hustle and then a few years later it becomes your full-time job. Like that's kind of how nature works. 

Robbie:    00:32:50    Sure.  And I also, you say, yeah, I would say so. Uh, ideally, you know, again, there's, there's exceptions to the rule. And again, I think if your, if your head is on straight and your and your motives are, are, are, right. You know, I will also sort of take the point something else you had said earlier about taking from each, taking little skills from each little job I had, and I wouldn't do it over, I, I, I kind of like wonder this, like that, that sliding door, sliding doors, uh, image of like, well, what if I did one thing a little differently? Right? And if I had started doing this whole thing 10 years earlier around the Black Friday time, or, you know, or, or, or I'm saying, um, like gone full-time 10 years earlier, you know, what would've been? But at the same time, everything that I've done, uh, work-wise as an employee and all the people that I've met, all the skills I've gained along the way, you know, there's no way I would've gotten it, uh, if I, if I had done things differently.  

Robbie:    00:33:43    So I don't regret that path. And I certainly believe there's a lot to have learned, um, to have learned, you know, going, going through it that way. Um, you know, the, the, the, the side hustle turns into the, uh, into the, uh, self-employed full-time work. And, and quite frankly as well, that skillset, and this is a sort of a separate point, but that skillset could make me, I can say this with full 100% confidence, could make me more money than I'm making right now in let's say the casino industry, which is not the same thing as poker is if you've got like a bunch of good well performing organic websites for casino that people are clicking on and stuff, that there's, it's just a bigger market. There's more money in that or in sports betting or whatever. And I know I could go ahead and do that right now.  

Robbie:    00:34:35    I've got the skillset, but that's not quite frankly what, it wouldn't work <laugh>. It wouldn't last. I would have no passion for it whatsoever. Uh, in, in one of my previous jobs, I used to write nine or 10 different unique reviews of an online casino slot machine or whatever it is, because each affiliate needed a, a unique one for Google SEO purposes. And I could write that in my sleep. I get it. I know the formatting, all that other sort of stuff, I could put it together, but like my heart is not in it <laugh>. And, uh, and, and quite frankly, you know, okay, it's great to see the money coming in, but you know, the, the, the, the $10 that I make with love and with passion, dare I say, means more to me than the a hundred dollars that I make not caring.  

Robbie:    00:35:23    You know, I, I I, maybe it's not a good phraseology of it, but it's, I I just feel it's important to put it out there. You know, people go ahead and you'll, you'll, you'll, um, it's gotta be like a good phrase or analogy for it. Like, uh, dust in the wind or whatever it is, you know, I feel like I'm doing something meaningful, at least for me, something that I know I want to and will continue doing for years and years and years to come, uh, building so much other stuff along the way. You know, this is what I want to use that skill set for. And I'm so much happier as a person, even if, if I'm not making as much as I could be making, using the skillset in, in some other industry.  

Kristin:    00:36:04    That is a very, very good point because when I was deciding what to do next after Poker Refugees, which I'm still doing <laugh> Still doing multiple businesses at once, but I was thinking, okay, I could take all of these skills that I have and go into A, B, C, D,E, F, different jobs. I could do corporate SaaS consulting, I could get into the, um, more into the travel planning industry. I could go into the gaming affiliate industry, which would've made me the most money. Yep. But I went to a few of those conferences. I worked in that industry for a couple years, and even though it did make the most money out of anything I was doing, I wasn't that interested in it. Yep. And you know, so I had to choose. And also the poker players, like I love working with poker players and I've been in this industry for a long time, but I don't even play poker.  

Kristin:    00:36:56    So I was like, I don't wanna go more into the gaming industry because that's not who I am. Who am I, I'm a person who likes to write, who likes to document. I've been taking home videos with a video camera since I was in high school.

Robbie:    Wow.

Kristin:     I've been writing and doing all this stuff since I was a kid and not sharing it with anyone. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna create a brand around what it is that I do, who I am Traveling with Kristin and, you know, dig being a digital nomad, that ass digital nomads. And, um, I definitely would have made more money if I had just updated my LinkedIn profile to be a, a corporate consultant and done that because that was the job track that I was going on out of grad school. I was like, I got an MBA, I was going into corporate consulting.  

Kristin:    00:37:50    I could have gone to work from IBM or Boeing or like any of these companies. And I just like, I just didn't want to <laugh>. I was like, I know I'll make more money with this, but it doesn't, I don't know, I don't want to. So it's like, if you find something that can make enough money that you can live on and then, you know, you hit that $80,000 a year or $100,000 a year thing and you have a comfortable lifestyle and then you can just grow it over time. And maybe you're not making seven figures, but you're also not really stressed out working in something that you hate, then there's something to be said for that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a trade off.

Robbie:    00:38:30   There's a lot be said for that. There's a lot to be said. Yeah. You know, just, you know, just 'cause you die with tons of money doesn't mean you die happy. There's so much happiness to be gained from doing things that way. It doesn't always come from money. The, the freedom, the, uh, the ability to spend more time doing exactly what you want to do, not necessarily have to answer to bosses or anything like that. There's, uh, that's worth a lot more than money quite often. Um, definitely. And, and people, the listeners didn't see me, uh, on video taking notes, but like something that you said so resonated. It's the create a brand around what I do and who I am. I absolutely fell in love with that phrase when you said it, because I'm like, oh my god, that's what I did, <laugh>. That's so cool. Like, you, you put it perfectly. That's a, a brilliant phraseology. I love it.  

Kristin:    00:39:21    Thank you. I could just picture us with our, our parallel lives in our living rooms years apart, just going through the same motions and that same pattern to make a decision that, you know, that same framework. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. So that's, that's really cool. Well, I guess we should talk about how you have monetized the blog and then I wanna get some of your tips for, um, people who are starting a blog. But what are the types of ways, you don't have to tell us exactly how much money you make or anything. 

Robbie:    00:39:50    Buck and a quarter.  Buck and a quarter. <laugh>. <laugh>. That's what I always say that or $27. That's always my standard.  

Kristin:    00:39:57    <laugh> 29.99. That's it.

Robbie:    00:40:00     And for you, 29.99 without tax, that's <laugh>.  

Kristin:    00:40:06    Yeah. Like what are your revenue streams, uh, for blogging and are these realistic things that other people can do?  

Robbie:    00:40:13    So they're definitely realistic if you've got the patience to build them up. Um, the revenue, like the, you know, I would say it starts out as revenue trickles and then becomes revenue streams to, to use, to use the metaphor there, uh, appropriately. Um, there's banner ads, there's other sort of sponsored content, uh, that comes in. Um, and my approach to that has always, always been sort of the television approach. It's no one watches their favorite sitcom in order to see the commercials. Right. You watch it for the show, for the content, and that is what attracts the audience. And then advertisers will say, oh, okay, there's an audience here. We want to get in front of that audience. Let's find ways to do that through content, through a banner. That's sort of a thing. And that's how I've always thankfully been able to attract advertisers.  

Robbie:    00:41:09    Um, it's never been really been too much solicitation. It's through organically they've come and discovered my website, have looked at it through their different tools, uh, to, to measure its performance. And then I go ahead and say, well, you know, I'm lifting the curtain for you. This is, you know, without your tools. I'm showing you how, how my site performs. And it's all organic and referral and, uh, social media, all that stuff. And, you know, we're able, thankfully to come to deals. So, um, you know, sponsored content and, and banner ads is certainly, uh, plays a part. Um, and recently, I would say the last two to three years, um, something that has really, uh, performed quite well is affiliate revenues, but specifically within the niche of poker training. Something I had sort of not gotten into, uh, was becoming an affiliate for the big online poker operators that I feel like that was a gold rush that I sort of missed.  

Robbie:    00:42:10    'cause that happened before my site became serious enough to get any sort of meaningful portion of the pie. Um, and there was also an element of being able to retain editorial integrity and say what I'd like to say. And not that I would say anything bad about anyone or any site, but, you know, I could go ahead and be free in that respect. Um, starting to get a a little bit into that now. But there's a, a very interesting and unique niche in, you know, anyone who's watched poker, you know, back in 2003 it was much more, let's learn the game. Right? Let's, what is this? What is this all about? I've seen people play it. What, how do you actually do it? And that same audience, you know, who was being introduced to the game over these past 15 plus years is now, okay, well I know how to play the game.  

Robbie:    00:43:01    How do I win at this game? How do, how do I make sure I'm not continuously losing, I want to get better. I still enjoy it. I'm a recreational player. I'm not gonna become a pro, but why am I losing? I wanna get better. And there's a critical mass of enough people who want to get better that a lot of poker training sites have popped up offering different courses of all the different little niche elements of how to become better at the game. Whether it's cash games or tournaments or, you know, uh, Texas Holden or other variants of poker. And that avenue sort of opened up to become an affiliate of that. And then there's no feelings of not saying good things because each course independently has its own unique value. And every time I produce any sort of bit of content about poker training, I absolutely know I'm giving good value to my audience.  

Robbie:    00:43:56    So it's a win-win. Like I'm serving my audience good, high quality stuff. The, the training sites are quite happy. Oh, okay. We've got someone who's got our best interest in minds. And it's very much a a, a win-win that, you know, enables some good monthly revenue to come in from that. Those, I would say, uh, to wrap it in a nice bow is how the blog itself for the, the, the site cardplayerlifestyle.com and is able to make money on over and above that. There are other sorts of avenues that I've been able, that have opened up to me as I've become more of an authority figure in the industry that I'm able to do and diversify with additional income streams. Um, whether it's as a podcast host or as a consultant, uh, of getting some sort of a monthly retainer, that sort of thing.  

Robbie:    00:44:50    Or per project. Um, I translated a autobiography of Eli Elezra famous poker player from Hebrew into English. That happened because I happened to know Hebrew, uh, being in the right place at the right time. So those sort of opportunities came up after That's the cool dance. The idea of the snowball is on a networking idea of like, oh, we know who this guy Robbie Stravinski is now. Maybe he'd be a good fit to work with us on so and so project. And those have always been nice ways to supplement beyond the primary, uh, making money from the website.  

Kristin:    00:45:24    Yeah. And I saw a email, 'cause I'm on your email list. I saw another email that you sent out, which is, I think everybody should copy you <laugh> <laugh> because I help people with how to make money online and how to make money freelancing. And as you said, like you have the sponsors and you have the affiliate revenue, which now I am starting to make money from those as well. And like a different niche away from poker. But then the other thing is to offer services. So basically being a subcontractor or being a freelancer, like offering the translation services, the writing services, the podcast production, the video production skills that you have. And you sent out an email that said, um, plainly speaking, if you have a poker oriented company product or service that you're looking to get more exposure for, kindly consider working for me or working with me with,  

Robbie:    00:46:24    I've never say before <laugh>No one ever works for me. Right?

Kristin:    00:46:25     Yeah. Working with --working and, um, you ask, you know, if you enjoy my content, please consider supporting a sponsor. Um, if you would like to see us produce coverage about your live event, let's find a way to make that happen. And if you believe that I can assist you with your marketing or content, uh, related production efforts, please reach out. Let's talk about it. Maybe there's some ideas that you have that I hadn't considered. This is exactly how I've gotten a lot of clients. I haven't even sent out emails, but just I've seen companies where I'm like, I wanna work with them and I just ask if they need anything. And, and I created a show reel and I created a portfolio and a media kit. And so not only do companies have the option to sponsor my content, but if they are doing something like, let's say it's a, a restaurant and they need a video about their restaurant, like my team can make that video for them,  

Kristin:    00:47:26    and, you know, use our special sauce to make it so they're not just going on upwork.com to find a random video editor. Or if somebody needs a voiceover. People are always commenting. They either love my voice or they hate it. <laugh>, <laugh>, there's no in between. They're like, your voice is so soothing, or they're like, what is this voice? Get it off. Um, so I'm like, oh, I could do voiceovers for people. And so I started doing that. Why not?

Robbie:   Sure.

Kristin:    And, um, so this is like, I mean, would you, I was gonna ask like, you know, how do you, how do you get other clients and customers for this kind of, um, project based work? And would you say you just ask?  Whats you tip?

Robbie:    00:48:07    That's a very, that's a very good question. So I wanna start off by saying I'm incredibly flattered, uh, genuine. I'm not, uh, you know, being facetious in any way, shape or form that you paid that close attention to something that I wrote, uh, in my newsletter. I've been producing that newsletter once a month for a little over four years. And that is sort of one of, I, I like to call it sort of like a hidden gem because far fewer people are subscribed to that than, you know, see my site each month, for example. Right. Um, and, and I kind of wish it was more because I put a lot of time and effort into doing that because that's very, it's, it's a different kind of marketing. It's, that's the push marketing, right? That's the only time I, I don't wanna say I even sell to, but these are people who've decided for whatever reason, I'm gonna go ahead and subscribe.  

Robbie:    00:48:57    I want more from Robbie Stravinski from Card Player Lifestyle. And okay. I definitely want to give them that more. And I want to put the time and effort, you know, for, for myself, it's a nice way of recapping what is it that I've done with my life with myself for the last month. But for people who I don't know, check in once a month or, you know, have taken a break, it's like, oh, okay, well this is what Robbie's been up to. You know, it's beyond just the site, it's also offsite work. And to them, to that audience, my my tribe, I believe I can appeal a little bit more directly and use that type of language that I wouldn't ordinarily use necessarily publicly in a public blog post. Um, so first of all, thank you very, very much for saying that. And that really means a lot because it's not like I studied something and had five people review that text.  

Robbie:    00:49:47    That is very much an extension of myself and my own personality and how I normally speak to people. Um, over time I've learned that the best thing you can do for someone is put yourself in their shoes and just sort of ask them, okay, like you said, what is it that I could do for you? Anytime someone sends me a LinkedIn connection, my almost, unless I actually know who they, who they are, I, my, my initial reaction, my initial response to them is, how can I help you? And I, it almost sounds cliche, but it's genuine. It's like, okay, well you clearly have some sort of reason for wanting to connect with me. Let me know what that is and let me see how I can help you do that. And I don't, again, I don't really openly solicit too much of like, you know, I wanna work with you, you, you. But it's more of like, I present myself constantly day in and day out through the work that I produce through this monthly newsletter. And everyone go ahead and you're, you're, you're welcome to subscribe if you're interested to it. um,  

Kristin:    00:50:50    We'll link to it.  

Robbie:    00:50:51    Thank you. Um, and if you like what it is that I do, I'm more than happy to listen and hear what it is that you do. And if you feel we could be a good match, let's see how we can make that work together where it makes sense. That's basically all there is to it. I don't think there's, it, it's a very natural sort of, let's, let's start a conversation. I'm, I'm very open-minded, and if it doesn't really make any sense, that's fine. But I'm happy to meet you and have that initial conversation and maybe somewhere down the line it might, uh, here's a perfect case in point, Kristin, you know, you and I, I think our first email exchange was probably back in 2012 or 13, and this is the first time I think that we're, you know, speaking, uh, speaking to each other on audio and just 'cause we've kept in touch and you've been kind enough to subscribe to this newsletter and just keep, you know, keep up with what I'm doing. And like I said, you know, it took a year, but hey, we're speaking and I think I, I, I'm very much benefiting from this conversation and enjoying and, and hearing about your journey and, uh, it's really cool to be able to share my journey a little bit with your listeners.  

Kristin:    00:51:59    Thank you so much. And even the reason I started this podcast is because I've met so many cool people through traveling and through the crazy businesses that I've been involved in. And I always thought back when the GoPro was first released many years ago, I was like, I should just walk around with a GoPro on my head, <laugh> and then record conversations because I would have so many valuable conversations with my friends and acquaintances and travelers, and I thought I should be recording this. And then eventually I was like, wait, I can record it because it's the two thousands and we have technology. Right. So I will start doing that now, <laugh>. So, you know, we could have had this conversation in the hallway at the Rio, at the World Series of Poker and it would've been a great exchange between the two of us, and we would've walked away like, Hey, you know, new friend.  

Kristin:    00:52:56    But now we get to share it with pe-- like thousands of people around the world. And that's just really cool that it's a good feeling you live in this time. Yeah. So, okay, well what are some of the, um, we'll do a lightning round with some of your top blog tools and tips and things like that.

Robbie:    Okay.

Kristin:    But, um, what are, you mentioned the, the articles that are performing well and the ones that perform well with affiliate traffic and things like that. So how do you come up with ideas for what to write about and do you do a lot of research before writing each one to make its, make sure it's SEO, you know, optimized or do you just kind of go with what comes to mind and then see how it works, and then iterate from there.  

Robbie:    00:53:42    It's funny 'cause I almost never talk openly, not that it's like any sort of secret or, or anything like that, but it's like, uh, you know, the, the, the nuts and bolts, the nitty gritty, the strategy. Like no one ever is interested enough to ask that sort of question. I guess that I've never shared this sort of thing with people. Um, I, this is one of those things that I've sort of, I always had my own approach, but I've also learned to appreciate the other side. The other approach from the jobs that I've had over the years and working with SEO teams, I'm much more the artistic approach. Uh, the, and there I would say is more the scientific approach. And I always say, uh, I use a different analogy. There's like two ways to build a house, right? My way is, let's build a foundation and then the first floor, and then the second floor, and then the third floor, and you have a nice house, and then we'll go ahead and strengthen this pillar and strengthen this pillar and this corner, and that sort of a thing.  

Robbie:    00:54:41    And so that's one way the SEO way has be like, okay, we're gonna have this pillar here, this pillar there, this corner here, and now you build a house around it. Right? So <laugh> so I, I laugh at that analogy because like, I guess in, in principle at the end, you have houses both ways. But I, I firmly believe in my approach because it does integrate the aspects of SEO, but you're giving your audience what they want, right? I think that a particular topic is interesting. I'm gonna go ahead and write about it, right? I'm not gonna go and see, you know, how many people are searching for this, I don't use, those sort of tools. And I'm not saying they're not useful and I'm, you know, quite frankly and openly, I'm probably missing a trick, you know, by, by not doing it that way a little bit more.  

Robbie:    00:55:30    But what I do do is before I hit publish, I do review it with a little bit of, like, I take like an hour break, whatever it is, if I'm writing it. And I'll have a little SEO review, at least as my head as far as my knowledge and that sort of thing. Okay. I could tweak a phrase a little bit here, a little bit there. Now I'll hit publish, but it didn't affect the essence of what I was writing or who I was writing for people who were reading it won't know the difference one way or another. But, you know, there's a Google algorithm and you know, yada yada, yada. Okay, <laugh>. So, so there's that business. You always have to be aware of it. You can't be oblivious to it. Um, and quite frankly, if those who use an SEO approach, it certainly works. It may even deliver more traffic, but name the brand.  

Kristin:    00:56:16    Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, you might have, yeah, you might have that top spot on Google, but nobody's subscribing to your newsletter. They just came in to get the answer to their question and they're out again. Right?  

Robbie:    00:56:27    And, and again, that's okay. I'm not saying that that's a approach that doesn't work, but it wouldn't work for me and what I'm trying to do, it wouldn't give me personal satisfaction. And, you know, hopefully the time will come where I'm able to bring someone on perhaps, uh, full-time and have a little bit more of a critical eye and, you know, not miss that trick anymore. And I think we're getting to that stage, thankfully. Uh, I'm, but I'm certainly aware of, uh, the SEO, I will say, uh, to address the other sort of part of your question though, as to what else is successful. It's not only just, that's obviously the, the human element. And I would say what I, part of what I enjoy doing most is interviews with players. Um, sometimes I get to do them on site when I'm traveling and going to those events.  

Robbie:    00:57:10    And that's always really cool to do the in-person interviews. Um, when I, and then there's also audio podcast types of interviews. I love doing written interviews. I really, I, I just writing as an art really appeals to me. And I feel that those end up a little bit, I don't wanna say more refined. 'cause sometimes you get good nuggets from audio that you wouldn't get from writing, but a person's sort of best foot forward comes through in written interviews. And when you say, you know, do you do your research? So maybe I don't necessarily do the SEO research, but on each person who I interview, I really take a lot of pride in the effort that I put in to try and research them. Number one, because I genuinely want to learn more about the person that I'm interviewing. And number two, again, just to offer value to the audience who's coming and clicks on it and say, okay, we've got an interview here, uh, with Kristin Wilson. Okay, well, I've read, you know, I've, I've seen, I've heard five or six different interviews with her. All right. But hopefully they know at this point that if the interview on cardplayerlifestyle.com, this one's gonna be unique, this one's gonna be interesting. We're gonna get some deep questions in here that perhaps have never been asked before, hopefully have never been asked before. Um, so on that I do my research and, you know, I I, I do take a lot of pride in the interviews that I publish.  

Kristin:    00:58:33    I like that it's a combination of that human characteristic, that natural curiosity and also how to deliver value to the audience, how to improve their lives, how to bring that something extra that they weren't expecting. And you don't even know what you're gonna get until you ask the question. And, uh, kind of like wrapping it all together. And then also knowing your audience really well, like having your customer avatar, knowing who it is that you're talking to. And, um, from the poker side, like I think we have a pretty defined, uh, audience, <laugh> and niche. Yeah. You can, you can know pretty easily what your, your demographics are there. Um, and then time, you know, publishing, I saw that you published like 25 articles in a month. I don't know when that was. I do read all of the emails, clearly. <laugh>, <laugh> 

Robbie:    00:59:31    We're,  We're up in the thirties now, thankfully, which is nice.

Kristin:    00:59:32     Yeah. So yeah. So that's like, that's like an article a day. And, um, yeah. That's amazing. I, I mean, eventually you're gonna have something that people really, really like and the rest of it, they might like 50% or 70% or something. But my two most viral articles are not even really Googleable. Like they weren't based on SEO Right. Search volume. Like one was about, uh, how much Facebook is paying their remote employees. So like their salary policy, which had just been announced. So there was no search traffic for it, right. 'cause it just happened that week. And the other, it was just like an interesting article. And then the other one was one that I thought of. I think it was like one that, I think I was in the shower or something. And I had the idea, these are when the best ideas come. Yes, you're doing yoga.  

Robbie:    01:00:24    Or when you're on the treadmill. That happens to me a lot.

Kristin:    01:00:26    Yeah. Downward dog. You're like, oh, go ahead. I've actually grabbed my phone during yoga class and like typed an article <laugh>. Um, the other one was like, I love it. This ist now my most popular one. It's, uh, the pandemic proves that society was wrong about how to live life and like, wow. That you can't really search for. 'cause it's like, what, what would it be? I mean, like life, you know, you can't, like, that's very crazy to get the top spot on Google for like life or self-help or something. Like people aren't finding it from that, right. They're finding it organically or from their friends. Right. Like most of the traffic's coming from emails, right. So people have been emailing it to each other. And that's, that's like when you're really making a difference and it's not coming from a search engine keyword tool.

Robbie:     Sure.

Kristin:       So that's great, great advice. 

Robbie:    01:01:17    Sure and to hedge something that I said, I said, you know, I'm, I'm in the thirties articles wise, right? And I said, that's amazing. And I'm like, I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back. I'm saying that 'cause I'm still at the point where I'm in disbelief that that's actually happening, you know, for a few months now we're over 30 articles a month, and it's not me who's doing most of the writing. It's 'cause we've built that network of contributing writers. And I'm very pleased to be able to offer so many different voices and so many different types or categories of articles to my audience. And yeah, you know, every month it's like a different one is the big hit. Sometimes it's the interview, sometimes it's the op-ed. Sometimes it's the interesting strategy about, you know, when to go all in or something like that. Uh, and sometimes it's just, you know, a list of a of top 10, you know, places to play in Canada or something like that. You know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's nice to be able to deliver that. And, um, it is, it is really cool to to, to be at that stage and, and hopefully, like you said, uh, you know, continue to grow in, in that way.  

Kristin:    01:02:21    And how did you get those writers? Did they come to you organically also through your work and approach you?  

Robbie:    01:02:27    Um, no, now that is, I, I think maybe there are two, there are two specific writers that have in mind who approached me. Um, which is very cool because, uh, you know, to, to be approached is like, oh, I would like to write for your site. Because sometimes you get those and like, kinda like SEO emails and they really just want to like put a guest blog post, right? But like, yeah, you see the way they approach me is, like, oh wow, they've really familiarize themselves with what this site, what this brand is about. And they want to be a part of that in a subway that's incredibly flattering. So that happened for two of them. And the others was just sort of over time, like seeing who's out there and offering them the opportunity or like, you know, Hey, do you guys wanna write an article?  

Robbie:    01:03:12    Would you be interested? And, you know, over time developing a relationship, those who it's just like, well, it takes them too long to get back to me. Or, you know, who for whatever reason didn't correspond well fine. So we won't work with them again. And that's fine. And those who, like I said, okay, you know, you give it to me in like a few days and like within 24 hours they get it back to me and it's fantastic. Well, you better believe next time I have an article that I want written, you're, you're getting the next phone call. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're getting the next email. So it really has happened over time. And you know, now I've got like my book review guy and I've got my list guy and I've got my course review guy and, and girls, well, I've got, you know, uh, women writers and men writers and writers in Europe and in America.  

Robbie:    01:03:57    And it's good to have sort of a, a database to draw on because sometimes you do have something urgent and you know, it's three o'clock in the morning, I'm still awake, but ain't nobody else awake where I'm at. Well, let's call my buddy in San Diego and, you know, hopefully he can get this written by the time I wake up in the morning, which has happened. Uh, so it's, it's good to sort of diversify. And, um, I guess people have, uh, at this point, if you're still listening, thank you. Um, I give long answers to short questions, but, uh, hopefully good and thorough ones that you can learn from a little bit.  

Kristin:    01:04:28    Totally. I'm not interrupting, I'm just listening 'cause it's great info and very helpful. Thank you.

Robbie:   And thank you.

Kristin:      Also, it's interesting how, um, you have this distributed company because this podcast, that ass Digital Nomads, it's not just about people that are living out of their suitcase, but people like you who have a wife and three kids and a house and live at home. But you set your own hours, you work for yourself, you have independent contractors distributed all over the world who are working remotely with you, some of whom you might have never met. And then you also get to travel on top of that, um, which is the dream, you know, it is, you don't have to travel full time, but you've gotten to go to tournaments and all over the world. So what are some of the places that your job has brought you?  

Robbie:    01:05:16    Uh, it's uh, definitely the, the cherry on top of the ice cream sundae to be able to do that sort of thing. It's been amazing. I got to go, well, the most, like, the most exotic place I would say is The Bahamas for the, uh, Poker Stars Caribbean Adventure at the time. And then the um, uh, the PSPC, uh, Poker Stars Players Championship. I got to go twice. And why I say that that is probably the most exotic is that's one of those like, okay, that's never gonna happen. And somehow it happened, right? That's why.

Kristin:    Where's that?

Robbie:    The Bahamas, Nassau. 

Kristin:    01:05:46   Oh, the, oh yeah,  

Robbie:    01:05:47    The Atlantis, uh, on Paradise Island. Uh, and just like, I, I just, both times I was just pinching myself like, wow, this is real. Um, and, and before I'll even continue with the destinations, I'll also just sort of say, I live in Israel and it's kind of like far away from everything as far as the poker world. And that's also, I kind of just pinch myself and like very much living this dream from my house in a place where, you know, it has nothing to do almost with poker and somehow it's happening through this, well, thankfully, the, the technology exists to connect me to the rest of the world. Um, and everything is far away. Like when I go and visit my family and friends in the States, like that's my destination. But to go on another flight from New York when I get there and go to The Bahamas, I was like, wow, I never, I never thought I'd get to do that.  

Robbie:    01:06:39    Um, got to go to Barcelona, got to go to Malta, got to go to Romania, Bucharest, um, uh, those are the ones that immediately came to mind. Got to go to Las Vegas a number of times, um, which is really amazing. Southern California, that's where I'm originally from, uh, a few, few different places in the States, but uh, I've named some of, and, and Madrid was my latest one that was really cool as well, uh, in Spain. So, um, yeah, it's, it's been awesome. And, uh, certainly I, I've got a lot of wanderlust. Uh, i, I love traveling. I love pretty much everything about it. Um, so to be in a position where every so often I get invited by the operators of these tournaments to come and, and produce coverage, uh, on site is just really, really fantastic. It's very much a dream. And, you know, frankly, you know, as much as I love and enjoy working from home, it's good to break it up once in a while and have the opportunity to miss my wife and kids. Um, which is, which is great, but it's like, you know, the five to 10% of that, um, makes the other 90 to 95% work really, you know, really nicely. So yeah, it's nice.  

Kristin:    01:07:46    Yeah, that is, I, that is a great balance to have and I can definitely relate to just pinching yourself. A lot of the places I've been were not because I had to be there, it's just 'cause I wanted to be there.

Robbie:    Oh, that's so cool.

Kristin:   But I think one of the peaks of my Poker Refugees career was living in Playa Del Carmen because I had to do research, you know, <laugh> had to do research, had to go there and live there, so I could have moved poker players there in 2013 and that was really fun. And, and then Rosarito and, and Vegas of course, but also getting invited to the first Poker Stars home game in Isle of Man, which was, 

Robbie:    01:08:28    oh wow, that's cool.

Kristin:    01:08:29    October, October of 2013. And I was like, just hanging out an aisle of man at the Poker Stars headquarters and with all the Poker pros and I was like, this is crazy.  

Robbie:    01:08:41    I'll say, that's on the bucket list. Hopefully <laugh>, maybe that'll happen someday. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. 

Kristin:    01:08:47    Yeah,  We'll see what happens with this like whole pandemic thing. But it's good that even without, even without the traveling, you can still work from home. And then I think Israel will be part of some travel bubbles, but hopefully you can start getting out there again soon.

Robbie:    01:09:03    Hopefully. And, and it's funny, like you said, 'cause a lot of people locally here, friends of mine who don't necessarily know what I do, they say, oh well, you know, there's no traveling going on. And like, they're familiar with just recently, in recent years, like the videos that I've done and the fact that I've gone different places, they're like, can you still work? Are you okay? Is your business affected? And they don't realize that the overwhelming majority of what I do is just, you know, with an internet connection from my living room. So, um, and I, and I tell them that, I'm like, oh, how about that? You know, <laugh>, which is, which is great, you know, and then last, last year, I'll just be franking again. I'm sure you know, all the, the badass digital nomads, they understand this. But like last year was a real good case in point of, I took my family on vacation.  

Robbie:    01:09:44    Uh, we were in the States for a month, um, and we went up to like Maine. Uh, my, my, my wife has family there and I was in New York and all the different places we went and we drove, I mean, it was vacation of course, but anytime I wanted to, I just connected to the internet, got, you know, the minimum or the most urgent things done for those two to three hours each day, whatever it was, and really took my foot off the gas pedal. But I was only able to do that because, yeah. So I was on vacation, but I was still sort of working in the background and, and thankfully the technology allowed for that. So, um, it's, it's, you know, really, really a blessing and, uh, to be able to do that and not, you know, one thing I'll never look back on with fondness is how I was cherishing like a, like a treasure each vacation day that I was given. And I was like, well, right now I could take a vacation morning or a vacation afternoon or a vacation week and still work. And it's just a, a gigantic blessing that I don't take for granted, even for a moment.  

Kristin:    01:10:46    Yes, I completely agree. And I had been reading that people in Silicon Valley were doing slow mornings, so they were taking like a vacation in the morning and then working in the afternoon and then later.

Robbie:    Cool.

Kristin:      Um, but these days you can even do, you can do more of that because a lot of those people are working for companies. But that's the way that I've been able to stay, go and house, sit for my friends or pet sit or go, uh, visit my niece for a month and stay with my brother and just hang out with my family. Not going anywhere, just like being in California or something like that. And just working a few hours a day doing the most important stuff. And then like, okay, maybe I make less money that month, but I got to spend, you know, 25 hours a week with my, with my family that I see once a year or something. That really, really you--

Robbie:    01:11:37    You took the words right outta my mouth. Exactly. I felt it precisely the same way. Yep.  Absolutely.

Kristin:    01:11:41     Yeah. It's so important. And it's really sad that, that the world got away from that and that I'm, I hope that with, at least with the pandemic, hopefully one of the upsides will be that millions, millions more people will get to have this flexibility because it's just like, that's what life's about.  

Robbie:    01:11:59    If I were a gambling man, which I kind of am, I would bet heavily on that. And I feel a lot of, a lot of companies and forward thinking companies realize that that is, you know, that that's the right thing to do. Those companies who never would've allowed or even thought of allowing employees to work from home or to have that sort of flexibility, you know, their hand had sort of been forced and all of a sudden, lo and behold, these same employees, Hey, what about that? They're, they're reliable, they're still getting the work done, so maybe, yeah, we'll let them work from home one day a week. And happy employee is a good employee. And I think, um, you know, the, the best companies, the best HR departments will learn, uh, very good lessons and implement them. And those will, will most likely be the companies that good talented professionals flock to, um, who appreciate that sort of type of work-life balance.  

Kristin:    01:12:54    Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay, let's do a quick lightning round and then I'll let you go 'cause I know you're in a different time zone. What is your favorite interview that you've done so far?  

Robbie:    01:13:07    Written, audio or video?  

Kristin:    01:13:09    You can do all, all three if you have like a top three.  

Robbie:    01:13:12    Okay. Well I would say, uh, Daniel Negreanu was certainly one of my favorites. Um, 'cause like that's sort of like a dual answer 'cause I, he was my first in-person interview as well as, um, when he first granted me one, I prepared almost a year for it. And we did it on my birthday and it was like an hour and a half long. So that was like super duper cool, um, written. I would say I would, uh, Phil Ivey, uh, because it's just so rare to be granted an interview with him. And thankfully that opportunity came up and I, I'm just happy I got one. So that was pretty cool. And I would say, um, getting to interview in person, um, some, some celebrities has been pretty awesome. Um, you know, I just, just, I sort of group all of those together 'cause it's hard to pick one favorite among them, but celebrities like Norm McDonald, Bruce Buffer, Tony Hawk, Paul Pierce, uh, Molly Bloom, like from Molly's game. So I just sort of grouped that together of like, poker has opened the door for me to meet some really cool, well-known people and have the opportunity to speak with them for a few minutes. And, you know, that, that's just really cool.  

Kristin:    01:14:26    That's cool because poker is a game that everybody likes.

Robbie:    Yep.

Kristin:     So a lot of different athletes and people are attracted to it, actors, actresses. And then for people who don't know Phil Ivey and Daniel Negreanu, what are their accolades?  

Robbie:    01:14:41    Uh, well, Phil Ivey is pretty much universally acknowledged to be like the goat, uh, the best <laugh>, the best of the best, uh, poker player, you know, still alive. And he's just fantastic. Uh, it's hard to imagine like anyone wouldn't know those two guys 'cause they're among the two who have transcended into more mainstream type of popularity. Daniel Negreanu has sort of been, uh, for the longest time, number one on the top, uh, earning money list. I think he's number three right now. Uh, was, uh, one of the best ambassadors for our game. Canadian, uh, appears on all sorts of different media outlets. Uh, he does his video blog, uh, six time WSOP bracelet winner. Uh, both of those guys have won countless tens of millions of dollars and are thought to be, you know, basically on the Mountain Rushmore of poker.  

Kristin:    01:15:39    Nice. And how do you stay so productive? What is a work from home or productivity tip that you can give everyone?  

Robbie:    01:15:49    Sleep isn't as important as you think it is. I'm not, I'm not sure if I phrased that so well, but the idea of like, if you're on a roll, if you're in the zone and it's like midnight or one o'clock in the morning or 10 o'clock, whatever it is, if it's late for you and you're in the zone, run with that. You know, there's like that Jerry McGuire scene of like, he wanted to write this memo and he stayed up all night doing it. Right. Harnessing that lightning in a bottle. That sort of passion. You don't even know how far it could possibly take you. So I would say that if you have the ability to get in that zone, whatever it is that you're doing, keep doing it for as long as you remain in the zone. Even if sleep is a consequence of that sometimes, and you just get so much done.  

Kristin:    01:16:42    That's good. That's an unconventional one. But I do know some entrepreneurs who do fasting and they get very little sleep when they're in a creative mindset. Yeah. They just go and then catch up later, sleep when you're dead. <laugh>  

Robbie:    01:16:55    Sleep is very important. It's important to get enough sleep. So we'll, we'll edge it. Yeah.  

Kristin:    01:17:00    Uh, what do you host your blog on?  

Robbie:    01:17:02    WordPress. Um, that will hopefully change pretty soon. It's a little bit of  a, you know, for the, for those who are listening in the poker industry, a little backend news. But hopefully that'll be changing soon to something a little bit different better and, um, more new and improved, uh, but WordPress and it's been fantastic to take me on the ride so far.  

Kristin:    01:17:24    And how do you draft your articles? Do you just write, write it into WordPress or do you use one of those writing apps?  

Robbie:    01:17:31    No, no, no, no. Never write in WordPress because you're going to lose it. And if you don't think you're gonna lose it, then you're gonna lose it again. Or the internet will crack out on you or the electricity will go. 'cause the one or two times I've, I mean, yes, it has happened that I've written in there to be quick, but I just play things safe. You don't wanna lose your work, write it in a Word document, then get it in there, do your formatting in there, that, that's just me. Um, and then just add your images, what have you, that sort of thing. Of course you could do it the other way around, but I just sort of play it safe and then you won't lose your work that way.  

Kristin:    01:18:07    Uh, how do you commute with your team that are in different countries? Are you guys just emailing or do you use any messaging apps or any specific remote work tools?  

Robbie:    01:18:16    Yes. Yes. And yes, it's, um, email is primary. Um, messaging apps like Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, uh, even direct messages on Twitter. Um, not nothing, nothing really too specific. Uh, I don't really have, I mean, Skype occasionally. Um, as far as like specifically the nuts and bolts of let's get this article written produced, it's usually email, uh, and again, occasionally those messaging apps. And I would just say as far as maintaining a relationship with, you know, the writers, I'm a little bit closer with, sometimes I'll even have a nice phone call just sort of touch base and, you know, say, what's up? How you guys doing?  

Kristin:    01:18:55    How do you manage working from home with kids in a family that a lot of people are doing right now during the pandemic?  

Robbie:    01:19:02    So I'm hoping that your listeners will send their answers to me, Robbie@cardplayerlifestyle.com. Uh, 'cause I have not figured that one out. No, I'm just kidding. 

Kristin:    01:19:12    People ask me that all the time. I'm like, uh, not an expert. Do not know <laugh>.  

Robbie:    01:19:16    Right. So I, I actually, I'm pretty good at it. And, and I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, but I'm saying that because so many times my wife or those who knock on the door and see me working are like, oh my God, how on earth can you do that? Not like it's chaotic all the time, but there's regular household noise, uh, going on. I'm usually pretty good at it. Um, and just again, sometimes I'll just put my headphones in and, you know, listen to a little bit of music or very loud music <laugh>, uh, just so I can, if I'm in that zone. And quite frankly, um, a, a better and perhaps more accurate answer is I just sort of shift my working hours and mentality of like, if the kids are home in the wake, well, I have the luxury of being self-employed and being able to determine my own hours.  

Robbie:    01:20:05    And frankly, in Israel it actually works out quite well because my late evening and, you know, late night is, you know, work hours in the states and that that actually works quite well. So, and I'm kind of a night owl. Um, my wife has really been awesome and being cool with me waking up later in the morning. So something, you know, nine o'clock, nine 30 sometimes, uh, 'cause she knows that, you know, I'm up till two, three in the morning working and I make the sandwiches before I go to sleep. And, uh, I do just try to use those times when my kids are awake and try to be with them a little bit more and, and fill that father role. And they're, you know, 8, 10, and 12 years old. So they also know that sometimes daddy needs to work and they'll move to the other room. So, um, they're no longer infants or newborns. So, uh, it's a little bit of both, but, um, that's just the best, most accurate picture I can give. Sorry, not in a lightning kind of way, but it's important to give a full answer to that one. I think.  

Kristin:    01:21:05    Really great chips, very practical. And Matt Ragland, who I had on the podcast, he's the director of customer success at Podia, which is an online course platform. He has two kids and he said he doesn't sleep that much and he works at night. So that seems to be, um, uh, the plan for a lot of the, uh, parents who are working from home and taking turns with your, your partner. Um, and  

Robbie:    01:21:30    I wanna say also like that, that happens to fit my natural rhythm so that, that really works well. So it's not as much of an adjustment as some people may think. At least for me.

Kristin:    01:21:39   Knowing your, knowing your peak work hours and your peak attention levels when, when those are during the day, very, very important.  

Robbie:    01:21:48    Yeah, It's 12:30 AM right now. People don't realize that, but I'm like, it's the middle of my afternoon, you know, so <laugh> Yeah. 

Kristin:    01:21:54    You're in the zone after this. You're gonna bang out like three articles and <laugh> make some sandwiches,

Robbie:  Maybe <laugh>

Kristin:   Uh, what is your favorite place that you've traveled to?  

Robbie:    01:22:05    Can you give me a criteria on which to base the answer? Is that possible? 

Kristin:    01:22:09    I guess favorite place to unplug and favorite place to mix business with travel.  

Robbie:    01:22:15    Okay. Favorite place to unplug, I would say is The Dead Sea. Um, it's, I, it's here in Israel and it's about two and a half hour drive from where I live. And that, you know, there's like a Hebrew expression called bean gov, which means, uh, you know, on your front and on your back, which means that's what you're doing on a chair. Just sunning one side and then sunning the other side. So that's really just, I love the relaxing and it's also, it's heavy. Um, sulfur and bromine in the air. It's like deep rich, uh, oxygen, rich air, all that stuff that, um,  

Kristin:    01:22:47    Like a spa.  

Robbie:    01:22:48    Yeah. But like, just by breathing the air, you already feel more relaxed. So that I would say is my favorite place to like truly unplug like r&r type of thing, uh, to miss, to mix business with travel. It's gotta be Las Vegas during the World Series. Um, you know, there's just nothing like it. I love, uh, you know, when I, when I go, I go alone, so there's a lot of freedom, which is pretty cool. Go out to restaurants all the time and uh, you know, it's just, um, I'm on a permanent high and if you don't, if you think I don't sleep a lot here in Israel, I really don't sleep a lot when I'm in Las Vegas. Um, and I'm, I'm just, I love it. It's fantastic.  

Kristin:    01:23:27    I don't sleep at all there and I don't even really gamble like I do, right? I go out, you know, I'd go out with like my friends or my ex-boyfriend and stuff and participate, but yeah, I would just, just being awake and being in the casinos with the lights and the restaurants and the clubs and it's like, you just can never get bored. You don't wanna sleep at all and you feel great somehow, but then afterwards when you get on the plane, you crash <laugh>.  

Robbie:    01:23:49    Yep. That's what everyone says. It's like right sleep on the plane, you'll have time then it's fine. No problem. <laugh>. Yeah.  

Kristin:    01:23:55    Oh, what um, tips do you have for people who are just starting out with a blog or thinking of starting a blog?  

Robbie:    01:24:03    Know why you're doing it, I think is the most important thing. If you're doing it for the money, uh, I mean, I don't want, it's not for me to judge a person, but I just sort of feel like that's coming from the wrong place and it just, you're giving yourself sort of like the entire world on your back as a, as a burden to carry forward if you're doing it exclusively for the money. I feel like the most important thing is to really want to produce something that means something to you that you're passionate about and almost sounds cliche, but I just sort of feel that if you're armed with that, it'll just take you so far. You don't even know how far it'll take you. You don't know what twists and turns along the road. Um, it'll take you on. But if you have and can maintain that passion for whatever it is you're going to be writing about or producing content about on a blog or on a website, you'll be doing it for quite a while and you'll be happy doing it. It doesn't matter how many people are consuming it and how much money you're making from it, eventually that will come if that, if you keep on doing it, it's, it's almost impossible that it doesn't. Um, so that, I think that's the most important tip.  

Kristin:    01:25:23    Amazing, amazing advice. I second that. And how can people keep up with you, follow you, subscribe to your newsletter and blog, um, where can they find your work?  

Robbie:    01:25:34    Uh, well the main site, I've, uh, plugged it a few times 'cause you gotta do that everyone, when you're being interviewed, you gotta plug your site and thanks Kristin for allowing me to do that. It's cardplayerlifestyle.com. Uh, that's my website. Um, follow me on Twitter, @CardPlayerLife, exactly how it sounds. Um, you can visit CardPlayer Lifestyle Poker on Facebook as well, uh, YouTube and my email, you can email me directly Robbie, R-O-B-B-I-E @cardplayerlifestyle.com. And I believe Kristin said she'll be kind enough to put the link to the newsletter in the show notes. And, uh, I'd love to connect with any of you guys. And, um, just in closing, I wanna thank you very, very much, Kristin, for giving me this opportunity. And now, you know, after having spoken with you, I will say it again, definitely worth waiting for. And I've really, you know, this whole year and I've really, really, really enjoyed speaking with you. And I, I feel like I could go on for hours and hours and hopefully our paths will cross that we can meet in person and have a nice drink, you know, make a, make a nice little toast and, uh, to friendship. It's been really wonderful and anyone out there who wants to connect with me, always happy to meet new people. So thanks for listening and for hearing what I had to say.  

Kristin:    01:26:49    Thank you. I'm crying you guys. <laugh>, I'm crying. This is why I do the podcast. Just to be able to like connect with cool people all around the world and connect with you, everybody who is listening, I'm just so grateful that I get to do this. But the funny thing is, is you give yourself permission to do it and then you do it. So everybody do your dreams. It's so fun. Um, okay. Thank you Robbie, so much for being here. And thank you for being so patient to <laugh>. Come on to the show and I do look forward to catching up in the future over a drink in Vegas and um, in the new normal. So take care and talk to you again soon. Thanks.  

Robbie:    01:27:32    That would be awesome. Have a good one.  

Kristin:    01:27:39    Thank you so much for listening. And remember, you can support the podcast and look cool while you're doing it by checking out our new merch Over on teespring.com/stores/TravelingwithKristin. We have t-shirts, tank tops stickers, coffee mugs, hoodies, cell phone cases, bags and more. Again, that's at teespring.com/stores/TravelingwithKristin.