Oct. 4, 2022

Leaving Canada To Retire in Albania as a Solo Female Expat

Leaving Canada To Retire in Albania as a Solo Female Expat

After a divorce and moment of clarity, Canadian expat Karen Espig decided to make drastic changes in her life. She retired early and moved from Canada to Albania to lower her cost of living and pursue her love for art full-time. It wasn’t all smooth sailing, however, as she struggled with culture shock and adapting to expat life in Albania.

After a divorce and moment of clarity, Canadian expat Karen Espig decided to make drastic changes in her life. She retired early and moved from Canada to Albania to lower her cost of living and pursue her love for art full-time. It wasn’t all smooth sailing, however, as she struggled with culture shock and adapting to expat life in Albania.

 

In this podcast, Karen goes into detail about how she prepared to retire and move to Europe as well as the challenges she encountered during the first few weeks living in a new country. She highlights the cost of living in Albania, tips for dealing with culture shock, and how she found herself again after so many big life changes.Tune in as Kristin sits down with her to find out how she did it.

 

Episode 175 Resources Mentioned: 

 

EPISODE 175 TOPICS DISCUSSED/WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:

  • How Karen went from working a 9-5 for the Canadian government to retiring early to become a full-time artist.
  • Being a tourist vs. being an expat in a new country
  • The biggest challenge she’s facing as an expat living abroad.
  • Processing huge life changes & finding yourself again after going through a divorce.
  • Tips for preparing to move abroad after retirement.
  • Adjusting to life in a new country, especially when you don’t know the native language.
  • Navigating major cultural differences in a foreign country you’re not familiar with.
  • How to overcome culture shock and/or depression after moving to a new place.
  • The importance of meeting other foreigners/expats when living abroad.
  • Karen’s favorite foods in Albania: local produce, fish, coffee, and more…
  • Why Karen chose to live in the Lake Ohrid region of Albania & the top towns in Albania to live in as an expat.

 

QUESTIONS ANSWERED:

  • Why did you feel you had to leave Canada to live well in retirement?
  • What happens to your pension plan if you retire early in Canada?
  • What countries did you consider moving to after retirement?
  • Why Albania?
  • How did you prepare for your move abroad?
  • What belongings were the hardest to give away before moving abroad?
  • Were you apprehensive about moving to Europe? What did your family think?
  • How much is rent and your cost of living in Albania?
  • What is your daily life like in Albania?
  • What challenged you about the process of cultural adaptation?
  • How has your pet adapted to life in Albania?
  • Do you have any regrets about moving?
  • And more!

 

Related Podcasts:

 

Related Videos:

 

Recommended Resources for Digital Nomads:

 

Albanian Cities/Towns Mentioned:

  • Lake Ohrid
  • Pogradec
  • Durrës
  • Sarandë
  • Vorë
  • Tirana
  • Shkodër
  • Korçë

 

Connect with Karen:

 

Connect with Kristin: 

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Transcript

Sneak Peek:

 

Karen:    00:00:00    Even if I'd worked all the way to 60, when I looked at the numbers, I was still gonna have to move in Canada because I lived in Ottawa, which is an expensive city. I was gonna have to move anyway. As a retiree, I might as well move somewhere. I wanna be.  

 

Ready to Relocate:

 

Kristin:    00:00:16    Do you have plans to move to a new country in the next year or so, but feel bogged down and overwhelmed with all the details? Would it be helpful to you and give you peace of mind to be able to work with me over the course of three months to plan your relocation and check in with me on a weekly basis? If that sounds like you, then set up a call to talk with me at travelingwithkristin.com/apply. That's Traveling with Kristin, K R I S T I N.com / A P P L Y. Spaces are limited and participants are accepted on a case-by-case basis. 

 

Introduction: Welcome to Badass Digital Nomads, where we're pushing the boundaries of remote work and travel, all while staying grounded with a little bit of old school philosophy, self-development, and business advice from our guests.

 

Kristin Wilson, Host::  00:01:18    Hey there, Kristin, from Traveling with Kristin here and welcome to episode 175 of Badass Digital Nomads. My guest today is one of my longtime Patreon patrons, Karen Espig, who first started listening to the podcast around 2018 when she was thinking of quitting her job to retire early and possibly traveling around the US or internationally. Well, fast-forward a few years where she is happily living in Albania. She has officially retired and changed careers from a corporate job to pursuing her passions in art and painting and drawing. She's also started a blog and a YouTube channel where she's showcased some of her work. And I think she's such an inspiring example of how you can completely change gears and pivot and do something new even after you retire. Karen had shared a blog post about her experience adapting to the culture in Albania over in the Badass Digital Nomads Facebook group.  

 

Kristin:    00:02:26    And I clicked on her article, I started reading it, and then I went down the rabbit hole of reading other articles on her medium profile and I reached out to her and asked her to come on the podcast today and share her story as a single woman moving from Canada to Albania, a country she had never been to before. She didn't know what to expect. And you know, she was doing this for the first time. So she's sharing about how that experience was for her, how she prepared in the months and years before she left Canada. She's sharing how she was able to decrease her cost of living significantly, the area she chose to live in Albania, and why she chose it, because she was really looking to have a local experience living with the locals and not being in the areas with lots of foreigners. However, she also shares how connecting with other foreigners and expats have helped her cope during these first few months of her new lifestyle. So, without further ado, I present to you my conversation with Karen Espig.

 

Podcast Interview:

 

Kristin: Fortunately, you and I have known each other for quite some time through Patreon. Yeah, yeah. I think you were one of my first subscribers. Do you remember how long ago it was that you found my content? Because I read on your blog that you were first thinking about moving to another country back in 2018.  

 

Karen:    00:04:03    Yep. So I think I found you 2020, 2018 is when I left my marriage that you probably read. I probably had that in.  So that's sort of when my big life transformation happened shortly after that. And I dove right back into art in a more major way. So that's what happened in late 2018, 2020 with the lockdown when I was working from home. That was about six months into that I started listening to your podcast. And then the rest is history <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:04:34    Well, let's start there because it does seem like big life changes are correlated with wanting to move to a new place for a fresh start. It's like this fresh start effect and sometimes a big shakeup in your life, or even a traumatic experience can be the catalyst for a change that comes years later. And it's okay if it comes years later, you know? that's just, everyone's on a different timeline in life. But take us back to your, let's say, traditional lifestyle. So you were an artist 20 years ago, maybe when you were younger, and then you started working a traditional nine-to-five job. And then at what point did you want to change that? Because you had, you know, the marriage, you had your cats, you had your stable job in Canada. So when did you decide that you wanted something different or that things weren't really working for you anymore?  

 

Karen:    00:05:39    Well, I'd say I might even go back farther. So if I go back 35 years, when I was 20, I kind of wanted to be an artist then. And then sort of life happened and, and I didn't. And then 20 years ago I tried again to sort of launch myself into being an artist again. And then it didn't happen again. So I, you know, had sort of a regular life. I have a son that's now grown a couple relationships, including a marriage and a job. I worked for the, uh, federal government in a few different departments. And you know, I liked my job, but it was just a job. It was never fulfilling to me. You know, I dabbled here and there, touching back on being an artist, but I just couldn't get right into it. And then I left my marriage at the end of 2018, beginning of 2019.  

 

Karen:    00:06:28    And then I had no reason not to. My son was grown, away, he was just finishing college on his own with his own life. Didn't need his mom anymore, not so much. So I started really diving into art. I had still had the full-time day job with the government, but in the evenings I had a studio set up in my home apartment. In the evenings I would do art. I started doing life drawing workshops and just involving myself, finding my art community, and just really jumping in anything, anything and everything, art was open for investigation starting at that point. So that continued, 2020 comes along and because I worked for the federal government, we were all automatically working from home immediately. So on the Monday after, or the, I think it was announced on a Friday, the Monday, they said, don't come into work unless you need your tablet.  

 

Karen:    00:07:19    And then you come in, pick it up, you go home. So I immediately started working from home, which I loved because it saved me like three hours of commuting time and it gave me three hours of more studio time. So what I would do at, I was work all day at my day job, take a nap, have supper, and then go to the studio. And then what happened is the more I sort of dove into it and was painting and it was, I was happy and realizing, okay, this is me, this feels good, this is what I need to be doing. The less I wanted to have a day job, <laugh>. So there was kind of this struggle going on. And then I started listening to the art podcast and also your podcast and, and looking up everything on how can I make money so I can have more studio time. And so yeah. So I started listening to your podcast probably that summer. And my original plan of, you know, the standard retirement at, at 60 65, just sort of every couple weeks I shortened it, <laugh>, it started in 60 and then a few weeks later I'm like, you know what, 58. So I'd sort of do the math and then pretty soon it was down to 54 and I was off. So <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:08:31    So how did that work with your job? Because working for the government, maybe you had a good pension plan. Is it very flexible as to when you can officially retire?  

 

Karen:    00:08:40    It's flexible to a point. I do have a pension, however, when you retire early, you pay a penalty. So I actually lose about 25% of my pension, but it's enough for me to live on in Albania. It's small, but enough here, it wouldn't be enough in Canada. And that was sort of part of my thinking too, because I knew even if I'd worked all the way to 60, when I looked at the numbers, I was still gonna have to move in Canada because I lived in Ottawa, which is an expensive city. I was gonna have to move anyway as a retiree, I might as well move somewhere I wanna be. So that sort of played into it as well.  

 

Kristin:    00:09:20    Okay. Yeah, because you wrote that your original plan was to retire at 60. Yeah. And then travel a couple times per year. And so I guess it's kind of what Dan from Vagabond Awake, and I talked about your, just talking about that interview, how retirees when they retire, they can't afford to live where they were living.To begin with. So what were some of the countries that you looked at moving to?  

 

Karen:    00:09:47    I looked at Portugal just because, you know, everybody was like, oh, go to Portugal. Go to Portugal. <laugh>. <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:09:52    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:09:53    And they seemed to have at the time anyway, I think they've gotten kind of bogged down, but their visa process seemed fairly friendly. Like they have a retiree visa, which I would've qualified for. But part of my condition is I wanted to be able to work cuz I knew my pension wouldn't be enough. So I needed a country where I could work legally as an artist and that I could afford to live. So then I moved eastward. At first I looked at Croatia, but the more and more I looked into how to get the visa, the less appealing it seemed because people just put these horrible posts about what a nightmare it was. And <laugh>. And it's quite restrictive in terms of you can't leave the country. I think it's 30 days, you have to be in country. Well I wanna travel, I don't wanna be stuck there. So then I, I don't know how I stumbled upon Albania, but I did. And there were just no downsides. The more I looked, the more I loved it. It's beautiful, was affordable. It's on the water, which is another aspect that I really wanted. I actually live on the lake, not on the seaside, but it's water and it just ticked all the boxes. So I had never been here, but it looked good to me. It's recommended you do an exploratory trip, but I couldn't afford to do that, so I'm just, okay, I'm just gonna go <laugh>,  

 

Kristin:    00:11:13    Just jumping in with both feet.  

 

Karen:    00:11:15    Worst case scenario, my visa's good for 90 and my passport's good for 90 days. I'll just pick another country. What's my thinking? So luckily I like it here so  

 

Kristin:    00:11:26    <laugh>, you liked it. So you're in near Lake Ohrid, which town are you in?  

 

Karen:    00:11:31    Pogradec.  

 

Kristin:    00:11:31    Okay. And what is that like?  

 

Karen:    00:11:34    The lake is beautiful and no regrets there. The town, it's a small town with very, very little English. So that's been my biggest challenge. It's a very pretty town. It's walk everywhere. Everything's fruits and vegetables and handmade stuff all over the place, but doesn't have the big city amenities. You know, every once in a while I go into the capital to Tirana or I go to other nearby towns to get some of the things I need. But I really like it here. I really like it.  

 

Kristin:    00:12:06    And did you decide to go there based on your research before when you were in Canada?  

 

Karen:    00:12:12    Yes. There's several cities on the coast. So Durrës, Vorë and Sarandë are kind of the big three and Vorë's still on my radar, but Durrës looked a little too industrial to me. I did everything from walking on Google Maps, everywhere I was looking. Plus I joined all the expat groups I could find and to research. And Sarandë actually seemed like there were a lot of expats there. There are a lot of American expats there, but I kind of didn't want that, I wanted to be in Albania. I didn't wanna just be in a little bubble with other expats, which I don't have any regrets about, but it did make it more difficult for me here. There were no expats that I immediately found when I moved to Pogradec.  

 

Kristin:    00:12:58    Yeah. And learning the language and everything. Well I wanna get into your cultural adjustment. Yeah. To Albania and just a moment. But first I found some really great insights and tips for how you prepared to leave when you were in Canada.  You spent, was it about two years from 2020 to 2022, thinking about moving, preparing to move. And then walk us through those six months before you actually moved and shutting all of your stuff and kind of preparing mentally and physically. What were some of the things that you did and when that time was winding down to your departure date?  

 

Karen:    00:13:42    Yeah, I would say probably about eight months before the actual flight out, right after I decided that it was Albania and that it was Pogradec and I had a destination and I had a rough date. I hadn't booked my flight yet, but I knew sort of February March was gonna be my date. I started getting rid of things. I knew it was gonna take a lot longer than I thought. Plus I'm working full-time and I'm trying to figure out all the other logistical things I need for the move and I'm gonna be tired. So I started right away with, you know, clothes. And this was, so this would've been summer 2021 in Canada. The, the weather changes pretty significantly in the fall. Soon as it wasn't hot enough anymore for summer clothes, they're gone. So I, you know, the couple of things I packed to bring got put away.  

 

Karen:    00:14:32    But everything else given away. Hmm. I basically created my own store at the charity shop. <laugh>, I gave away so much stuff, <laugh>. But yeah, so I just started sort of had a goal of like three boxes a week minimum that had to leave the apartment. I started giving away stuff to friends, putting call outs, you know, what do you want? Come and get it. <laugh>. I sold a few things on Kijiji, which is a local resale site, but it probably paid my flight out for me and and my cat. And that's about it. So the rest was given away except for my artwork. So I'm kind of lucky in that respect. I invested in a small storage unit, second smallest you can buy, it's like five by nine by seven. And my finished artworks are there and because there was a little bit of room, some of my art books are there and my photos and special stuff is there. So I'm very lucky I didn't have to get rid of absolutely everything cuz that would've been really difficult. You know, <laugh>, I don't know how the people that do get rid of everything much respect because it's hard.  

 

Kristin:    00:15:39    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:15:40    It's psychologically hard and, and there was a few things you go through, you know, you come across a box, you start going through it and sometimes you come across things you're like, ugh, bad memories, good memories. Or you just can't decide. So anything I had trouble with, I would just, rather than torture myself in the moment, I'd put it aside and keep going and then come back. And as you get used to making your world smaller, like your stuff, you adapt to having less and then you're able to give away more. It's a process your brain has to learn to let go. And you know, I dunno if that's making sense, but  

 

Kristin:    00:16:18    Definitely it's like when you get to the hardest part of anything, like when I was in the review process for my book, I emailed the editor and I was like, I'm really stuck with this part and this chapter. And she said, well just move on to the next one. And I thought, oh yeah,

 

Karen: brilliant <laugh>,

 

Kristin: I, I used to do that in school. Yeah. And when I got stuck on a math problem, just move on to the next problem, come back to it later and somehow your brain organizes around that problem and you find the solution easier. And just yesterday I was in a music production class and the teacher, he's been doing it for 30 years and he just, offhandedly mentioned he was showing me this software plugin and he said, yeah, you know, for years I didn't use this cuz I couldn't wrap my head around it. But then one time I rediscovered it and now I use it all the time and I'm thinking, here's this guy who's basically a composer. He does orchestra stuff and I mean all sorts of things. And he was stuck on this one piece of software for years and then all of a sudden he could use it again. It's like his brain caught up with what he needed to do for that. So what did you find was the hardest stuff to give away or to sell  

 

Karen:    00:17:31    My art books? I did get rid of a lot of them. <laugh>, I kept probably too many, but I just kept saying, okay, my question every time I touched a book was, can I get this as an ebook? Yes. Okay. Gone <laugh>, there's a few I can't. So I kept them, there's a few, a few that are kind of, I don't know, I'm kind of used to having them around so I kept them.

 

Kristin:    00:17:52    Yeah.   

 

Karen:    00:17:53    And Art books, they are hard to replace some of them. So it was kind of, how much am I gonna look at this again or not. And also when you give away, I, I believe books should be read and looked at. They shouldn't just be sitting on a shelf. So I just sort of imagined the person finding it in the thrift store, being thrilled that this book they find and that makes me happy. So, I kind of just had this little conversation, I guess in my head with these things to get rid of  'em.

 

Kristin:    00:18:22     Yeah. And do you miss anything?  

 

Karen:    00:18:24    I miss my paintings and that was tough when the day that I moved them into storage. So it would've been beginning of December, it was in the evening and I closed it and I cried on the way home. Oh. It was just cuz it was just, oh, like my children <laugh>. Lock the door and walk away. And then one other day I had to go in to add something, uh, or a few, couple other bags that were, after I moved, I moved to temporary residence for two months after I gave up my apartment. So I had stuff to put in and I put it in and I started feeling myself getting emotional against. I'm like, okay, I can't come back here. I can't. So I closed it and I never went back to storage again. <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:19:02    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:19:03    Well at that point I'm, you know, two months out from moving, moving. So I thought I tried to limit emotional upsets and I knew, I thought that's upsetting to me. So I -- no more storage visits. So that was, that was that.  

 

Kristin:    00:19:19    And you have a nice painting behind you. Did you paint that one?  

 

Karen:    00:19:22    Yeah, it's not quite finished but yes, I painted that here. I've just recently started peeling like I could paint again. I started this and then I kind of shut down as I was adjusting. And then a couple weeks ago I sort of woke back up again. So, which just feels good. 

 

Kristin:    00:19:39    Yeah. You know, having decorations and paintings and how your house looks like it's a part of self-expression. And that can be one of the hard parts of moving to a new place is that you're in someone else's home and then you little by little start to make it your own. Yeah. And this is different for people moving permanently versus temporarily. Yeah. But even now, I've been here for about a year, a year and a half in this apartment and I have a full bookshelf. Yeah. <laugh>. And I'm already thinking, ok, what am I gonna do with these books when I move? And this might be a little of a bit of a weird question, but you went through a divorce pretty soon before you actually retired and then moved. So you went through a lot of life changes around the same time in your mid fifties. But did the divorce kind of make it easier to move? Because I imagine that you went through a bit of a purging process during that because you were living with your husband and then you must have had to give away stuff and move into your own place.  

 

Karen:    00:20:50    No, the situation there was, I left with what I came in with.  

 

Kristin:    00:20:55    Ah,  

 

Karen:    00:20:56    Yeah, pretty much.  

 

Kristin:    00:20:57    So you left abruptly.  

 

Karen:    00:20:59    Yeah. So I would say the divorce, it played into my giving myself permission to do my art because now I could be me. I wasn't, you know, beholden to anybody that I didn't have to think about other people's wants and needs. So that was the beginning of the art part. I dunno, does that answer that question without getting into  

 

Kristin:    00:21:20    Yeah, well I was just, you know, thinking, you know, having seen friends and family members and people go through divorces, it's like a whole thing where you're Yeah. Dividing up assets and moving. People are moving and it's like, who gets this couch or who gets this coffee maker? And  

 

Karen:    00:21:36    Yeah,  

 

Kristin:    00:21:37    It's sort of like moving to another country.  

 

Karen:    00:21:39    Yeah, no, I agree. It was a huge change. It was a change I initiated and I very much wanted. So that's end of 2018, beginning of 2019 for that next year I was processing what I needed to process from that event. So it wasn't really until Covid and the lockdown that the huge life change <laugh> happened.  

 

Kristin:    00:22:04    Were you apprehensive at all about moving so far away to a country you've never been to by yourself? I mean, did your family think that you went crazy or <laugh>? 

 

Karen:    00:22:16    <laugh>? Oddly enough, I wasn't apprehensive about it. <laugh>, it was exciting to me. The more I thought about it just got me going. The reason to get up in the morning, like I was just so excited. The more I found out, the more decisions I was making, the clearer it got in my future. As I got closer and closer, it was just exciting. Of course I was very nervous. I had no idea. And you know, in retrospect there was so many things I was nervous about too that there was no need to be nervous about. But I think we're a little bit isolated also in North America cuz we don't travel. And then you get here and it's like, oh yeah, let's go. You know, it's just part of culture. Maybe not so much at Albania but you know, general Central and Western Europe. Maybe I should have been more apprehensive, I don't know. But no, I was just excited as far as my family and friends, mostly they just said Why Albania? I've answered the question so many times. And where is Albania?  

 

Kristin:    00:23:14    Oh right.  

 

Karen:    00:23:15    Because they don't know. But I would say my family and friends a hundred percent have supported me cautiously, but they have supported me even, you know, at their own expense. It's upsetting to some people that I left, but at no point did anyone say, you know, can't leave. I need you to stay, please stay. None of that. I had just, people could see I was excited about it and it was really what I wanted to do. So I very lucky to have that support.  

 

Kristin:    00:23:45    Amazing. Yeah, I think that's important for other people to hear and I think it's really inspiring because just as you saw other people's stories and thought I can do that too. Thousands of people will see your story and hear your story and they'll think, oh I can do that too. Yeah. And they might see a little part of themselves in your story. And so, well let's jump to Albania then. How were those first few weeks for you adjusting in your new place? How did you find a place to live and then what was that first month like?  

 

Karen:    00:24:20    So I, I arrived in Toronto, I stayed there two nights. I actually hired a consulting agency to help me with my visa cuz yeah. I had enough to deal with. Yeah. Uh, and I a hundred percent happy about that. So I'm, I then met with her the next day and uh, we went and started the process of setting up my business right away. And then actually that night I went out, it was a Friday night with an expat group and there was a live band and music and drinking and coming from Canada where it was very locked down and it was just this party and it was just the best. I was just so happy that night, uh, felt really good. I felt a little guilty knowing everybody back home was not able to do that. But it felt really good. I honestly,  

 

Kristin:    00:25:07    It was like a welcome reception from the universe. Affirming that you did the right  

 

Karen:    00:25:12    Thing. Yeah. Just good for the soul. Like this live music and people that were having fun and laughing and ugh was so good. Then a few days later I traveled to Pogradec with all my stuff I had and I just stayed on an Airbnb for two or three nights. I had prearranged an apartment and I had done that. I had contacted a bunch of people on Airbnb, said, Hey hypothetically what would you charge for a 12 month contract? So I did arrange something ahead of time. So I moved in and it was not the most comfortable situation. So I grinned and buried it for a while and then I, something happened at the apartment and I'm like, okay, I can't do this apartment <laugh>. So I told my landlady and I had to pay like a deposit fee sort of thing. To make everybody happy. And I got a new place, which is where I still am. So, and I'm much happier here. That's, it's a lovely environment, a beautiful garden. It's right near the water. Much better situation <laugh>. But yeah. And you know, when I do need to, I'll probably stay in Pogradec at least another year now I sort of know what to look for for my next apartment and I know a little bit of the language so I can muddle through with my Albanian and some charades on my own probably.  

 

Kristin:    00:26:37    And how much is your rent there?  

 

Karen:    00:26:40    My rent here is 200 euros a month. Which is lower than usual, but it's not a hundred percent private. I share an entrance. It's kind of like renting rooms as opposed to an apartment. Apartments though run about, I have a friend here that pays 250 plus utilities and utilities are probably another a hundred. These are American dollars roughly or 250 euros, which is roughly American equivalent. 

 

Kristin:    00:27:05    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:27:06    So for 250 euros there's quite a bit available. I'm finding it in poker, it's a little tricky. Oh. Cause there's no agencies. It's sort of, you know, you talk, you just have to find a person who knows a guy <laugh>. That's how a lot of things are done here. So I actually went with my friend to help her find her apartment. It was through the, the waitress we had at lunch and she, her dad knew somebody. So it came up with like three apartments we went and looked at. That's part of the adjustment is getting used to the way things are done. Which is totally different, but it works. So we got her an apartment and <laugh>, she's happy.  

 

Kristin:    00:27:41    Yeah. And then you get to see them in person once you're there.  

 

Karen:    00:27:44    Yeah. Really important. I, I know cause I see other expats and, and they ask me to. People have emailed me and I know it's hard, but just come here and get it here. If you try to do it ahead of time, it's not gonna be as advertised or it's not gonna feel right. It's hard to not have that in place. You know where you're gonna live, but if you can wait it's a lot better if you can do it from where you land.  

 

Kristin:    00:28:09    Yeah. A lot of times we'll book like for my relocation clients, short-term rental or one month at the beginning. Yeah. And then have them look at places in person. Because also with Airbnb it's much more expensive. Like the online rentals are made for tourists really. So Yeah. And especially right now, I don't know, the prices everywhere are seem much higher than before. I think with so many people moving around or working remotely that even 1% or a 10% bump in rentals can put the prices up higher than they were before. So yeah, finding a local deal is always good. So what would you say your total monthly cost of living is now and what was it in Ottawa?  

 

Karen:    00:28:58    My monthly living costs are probably excluding any travel or extra stuff. Just basically food and shelter. It's probably around $500 a month, but I don't pay utilities here, so it's not typical. So maybe if you added another $150 a month. I also pay, because I'm self-employed, I do pay into the social insurance system, which is another a $100 a month. And I have to pay an accountant, which is another $20 American dollars. So that puts me at about $650 without travel maybe.

 

Kristin:    00:29:35    Yeah. So easily under a thousand.  

 

Karen:    00:29:37    Oh yeah. Yeah. 

 

Kristin:    00:29:39    Per  Month.  

 

Karen:    00:29:39    I eat at home, home. I don't go out a lot and I, most of the, I try to buy as local as possible, which keeps the price down. My big expenses are when I decide to travel somewhere, which I've already done several times, <laugh>. So basically my work here that I need to find is to fund my travel.  

 

Kristin:    00:29:57    Right.  

 

Karen:    00:29:58    My pension covers my living expenses, but to travel I need to work in Canada. I paid well 2000 for sure cuz my rent alone was 1400.  

 

Kristin:    00:30:08    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:30:09    And then there was heat and hydro. And my cell phone plan here is like $15 a month. And in Canada it was $75, $80 a month.  

 

Kristin:    00:30:18    Yeah. It's such a huge cost savings. I was thinking of doing a cost of living video for Miami because it's just exorbitant. Yeah. <laugh>. I mean, you can't go out to eat for less than $30 to $50, whether it's breakfast or lunch or dinner. Yeah. I mean I literally had a $50 breakfast the other day.  

 

Karen:    00:30:39    I hope it was good. <laugh>,  

 

Kristin:    00:30:41    How was this possible? Yeah. I was like, can I see the receipt? You know, like what happened here? And then they include, you know, there's taxes and tip is now 18% or 20% included. Yeah. Just when you get the bill and Yeah, yesterday my lunch was $34 and I had a half of it, so I had leftover. So I'm like, okay, well two wheels, you know, more like $17. Yeah. But still. And then I left it in the <laugh> refrigerator at, at my studio and I'm like, oh great. I just wasted another $20. Yeah. So I missed those prices. I can't wait to go back to Eastern Europe.

 

Kristin:    00:31:21    Hey there, Kristin here. Did you know that I have a weekly newsletter? You can stay in touch and receive an email from me every Friday by going to travelingwithkristin.com/subscribe. You'll be the first to know about new projects, videos, and opportunities for attending meetups live streams and more. You'll also get a lot of travel and remote work tips, insights, and thoughts that I don't share anywhere else. Sign up today at travelingwithkristin.com/subscribe. And now back to the show.

 

Kristin: You mentioned an a blog post that you feel like it's easier to be a tourist than a newcomer, like a new transplant to another country. What did you mean by that?  

 

Karen:    00:32:09    Because when you're a tourist, you know you're going home. Even if you come to a place for a month after you're there for a month, then you go back home to your stuff and your routines where you know everything and uh, you know everything is, and you know your people are there. Whereas when you land here like I did, you know, no one and you're not really a tourist because you know, you've gotta somehow join your community and it's just very different. <laugh>, I'm getting lost here.  

 

Kristin:    00:32:39    You mentioned that at first people just thought you were a tourist and then they started realizing little by little like, oh wait, this woman's living here now. Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:32:49    And I would say Albanians are not very, I won't say they're not curious. I think their curious, but their curiosity does not propel them to ask a lot of questions. Generally. Or maybe it's more because I'm a woman also it, it's fairly patriarchal still here, so maybe that's part of it. They're shy to ask me what I'm doing here or <laugh>. But yeah, after a while they're like, oh, well she's buying kitty litter. That's kind of strange. A tourist wouldn't normally buy kitty litter, you know, they're gonna buy sunscreen and fast food and and stuff. So once you start buying house stuff and I tried to interact a little bit just with word, the words that I knew when I first arrived. And I think there's this internal pressure, which I, I mean I think I put that on myself. It's like, okay, I've got a, this is my store. I can't make a bad impression here. I can't upset anybody. I've gotta interact, I've gotta shop here. I've gotta get what I need. And I think I felt the stress and the pressure of making a good impression as a foreigner coming into their space. So I think that's the big difference. It's all internal. It was me coming up with this difference.  

 

Kristin:    00:34:01    Well there are also cultural differences between all countries. And of course a country is very diverse. So there can be differences within regions of a country, within different cities and towns and then in that community itself and then individuals as individuals we all feel slightly different from the societies that we live in. We partially have an imprint of that society on our identity of where we grow up and where we live but also we feel independent of that in a way. And we are our own people with our own personalities. So it can be confusing when you first moved to another country because your individual identity is shifting in real time. <laugh>. And the way that you perceive that country is changing over time. The way that the locals perceive you is changing as well. And so things are very much in flux. And that's probably part of why you felt so tired. Like you mentioned that the first few weeks there you just felt drained and exhausted. But has that passed?  

 

Karen:    00:35:14    Mostly? I would say I'm almost at the six month mark. It doesn't happen so often. Like sort of in the beginning I literally had like two good hours a day where I was really alert really. I felt okay, I'm here and really connected and engaged and then I would just be exhausted. Now I, I have a full day. I don't have that kind of shut down during the day. I feel like, like I'm me. I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be. I, it's all good. But after, you know, a day of being out among Albanians and listening and interacting, I make sure to get some down quiet time because it is exhausting. And I recently, you know, I was out talking to the family or trying to <laugh>, I don't think they even have a word for introvert in Albanian. 

 

Kristin: Really?

 

Karen: Someone can maybe correct me culturally, people do things together.  

 

Karen:    00:36:08    I'm very much an introvert. I really need alone time, seek alone time in Canada anywhere. It doesn't matter. That's, that's just me. It's perceived like they're actually worried about me <laugh> cause I'm spending time alone. But this for me is good. It's a good day if I have alone time. There's definitely a cultural disconnect there. Just don't understand where I'm at now. Culture shock wise, I'm sorry. I'm sort of on a tipping point between this is my new town and my new culture and that's my old ways. But at the same time I have to be, me and me is always gonna be an introvert and always need alone time. But how do I have that and still be part of this culture which doesn't really understand <laugh> or seem to, I mean  

 

Kristin:    00:36:54    Right. Without worrying them. So sometimes we'll be afraid to offend them by needing alone time, which they don't understand. But really they're more concerned because if you go to the Hoffstead Insights website, which is one of my favorite websites, as many people know, many listeners and many subscribers know I've mentioned it a few times and you go to the country comparison link between Albania and Canada. Albania has an individualism score of 20. Whereas Canada has an individualism score of 80  

 

Karen:    00:37:30    <laugh>. That doesn't surprise me. <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:37:32    Yeah. Individualism addresses. And I quote the degree of interdependence a society maintains among its members. So Albania score of 20 indicates that it is a collectivistic society. So a very strong long-term commitment to the group, whether that's family or you know, society at large. And it says the society fosters strong relationships where everyone takes responsibility for fellow members in their group.  So whether that's at the company or in the community. So people are basically adopting you in a way Yeah. Into their group. Yeah. And that comes with its own brand new societal pressures. You know, they don't see it that way. They just see it as they're including you. Little by little more into their society.  

 

Karen:    00:38:29  Which is beautiful and lovely and I appreciate <laugh> in theory. Yeah. It's eyeopening. It's challenging sometimes.  

 

Kristin:    00:38:37    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:38:38    People, they do things together, which is really nice. And if you do have a problem, like you actually have to be mindful of that. If, if you go, you know, sit in a restaurant and you're like, I need to buy a wrench and you talk to the waiter, where do I buy a, a wrench or paint or whatever. And if he doesn't know, he's gonna ask people until he gets an answer for you. <laugh>, someone will sit down and pull up their phone and call 12 people and find out where's the wrenches? Yeah. If there's a problem it's gonna get solved. <laugh>, which is like amazing but also kind of overwhelming when you're like, you know me, it's like, oh no, no brother, just it's okay <laugh>, I'll figure it out.  

 

Kristin:    00:39:18    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:39:19    But I mean that's sort of the upside, you know, it's great that they work together and they get things done and this it works.  

 

Kristin:    00:39:26    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:39:26    Coming in from the outside. Plus I don't speak the language. I'm like very low level so I don't know what's going on really most of the time. So the subtleties of social norms allude me unless someone tells me right out. And, and sometimes the couple Albania slash English people that I know will tell me some things. I'm like, okay, that explains <laugh>. You know, which is good. But yeah, I look forward to overtime understanding what's going on. Cause I still don't  

 

Kristin:    00:39:58    Really, yeah, that definitely comes with time. And you're taking some one-on-one classes or remote classes?

 

Karen:    00:40:07    Before I left Canada, I started uh, remote and it continues to be re remote because my teacher is actually in two hours a week at the most. And there's been times where I've just been too wrecked to do it and she's been very understanding about that. But yeah, she teaches me grammar, cultural things as well and it's been really helpful. And I actually know more Albanian than many expats that have been here for years. But they're in Toronto where there's more English you can pass <laugh>.  I mean here I guess you could pass too, but I wanna know what's going on and I wanna be able to do my basic things.  

 

Kristin:    00:40:45    Yeah. And that's part of how you integrate and just making that effort to learn a few words is so important. And I remember even just going over for the day, coming from Montenegro and having a whirlwind tour <laugh>, forgetting the name Chakota  

 

Karen:    00:41:02    Chakota. Yeah.  

 

Kristin:    00:41:04    Yeah. And I perceived so much about the culture just in that day trip and seeing all of the people congregating together in parks, you know, people playing games, kids running around and I could definitely tell what a close knit and collectivistic society that it was and how knowing the local language, of course I could get by speaking English, but knowing the local language can just help you understand those nuances and participate in conversations. And it does take some time. It can take years even to learn the language. 

 

Karen:    00:41:43  Oh  yeah. <laugh>  

 

Kristin:    00:41:43    Even taking, you wrote in one blog post that it's the little steps that take you the furthest and learning one word per day or you know, making that little effort per day. It really adds up exponentially even by the end of your first year. And then when you imagine compounding that in five years and seven years in, you really start to understand more than you could have ever imagined at the beginning. But then you understand more of that complexity of the life as well and just becomes part of your life and part of that journey.  

 

Karen:    00:42:20    Yeah. It makes me proud of myself. I think the last two times I went to get fresh fruit and vegetables both this week, both times when they told me the price in Albanian, I understood correctly <laugh>. I was like, oh. And I handed them like the exact correct change before it was like, just get a big bill, hand it over and for the best.  

 

Kristin:    00:42:42    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:42:43    But I actually understood the amount and I got it right and I was like, oh yay. You know, that was good <laugh>.  

 

Kristin:    00:42:49    And you feel that sense of accomplishment. It's like a little dopamine rush.  

 

Karen:    00:42:53    Yeah, yeah. Yeah. <laugh>,  

 

Kristin:    00:42:56    What is something that has surprised you about the adaptation process? Like is there anything that has been particularly easy or particularly hard that you didn't anticipate?  

 

Karen:    00:43:11    Yeah, I didn't anticipate having a problem. That was my problem. <laugh>

 

Kristin: Really?

 

Karen: Yeah. Like ahead of time. I mean I, you know, read culture shock and I'm like, Ugh, I wanna go. I'm ready to go. I'm excited to go. It took me a while to clue in that I was having a problem. Hmm. So it wasn't until I started realizing I was going out less and less. I was home more and more. I mean it was winter so it was cold and nothing was happening like in the little town, but it finally, I clued in. Okay. I didn't call it culture shock, I just thought maybe I was getting depressed. So I started reading some different articles and one of them said sort of the difference between the, in this article they cited the difference between, you know, being a tourist and moving to a new place.  

 

Karen:    00:43:58    So they said, behave like a tourist. So I thought, okay, that sounds good. So I made myself sort of a little mini trip. I went to Korçë, I got a nice little Airbnb and I went out for dinner and I just kind of was a tourist for, I don't remember if I did, I think I just did one night. It felt good. It was like, okay. And I got out of my town. There was no pressure to make a good impression or to assimilate in any way. I was in another town seeing, you know, experiencing it as a tourist. And it helped a lot. And I think it, it gave my brain a break similar to when you're dealing with a loss or grieving and sometimes you have to just completely forget about the sadness or the difficulty, you know, laugh a bit and your brain can sort of change tracks and and help you out. So that kind of happened and then I came back and then I, that's when I wrote my first article on Culture Shock and, and looking into it more. And I still don't like the term cuz I shock implies, you know, that you weren't prepared that it came on suddenly. And there's gotta be a better word for it.

 

Kristin:    00:45:00    Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:45:02    I didn't think it would happen to me. I thought no I, cuz I wanted this. But it's more a matter of your brain can only do so much for you <laugh>. It's a process and you have to just go through it and let time, you know, get used to things and be patient. So I had to learn to be patient with the process. So I stopped painting, then I started painting. I had two paintings on the go. And then this immobilizing period happened where I didn't wanna go out and I, there's this pressure, okay, you should be painting, you need, this is why you're here. You're here to be a painter and this is what you wanted and you're not. And then I spoke with a friend of mine in Canada and she's like, just stop, stop painting. Just take a break, take a breath, stop.  

 

Karen:    00:45:48    It'll come back. You're, you know, motivation will come back but you need to just stop. So I did and I stopped and I started really focusing on what was happening to me mood-wise. And I still really sort of watch it. If I find myself feeling down, then I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm pro, you know, I'm working through this stuff. But yet that was my biggest thing was just denial <laugh> that I would have a problem. And actually it was sort of after that first article, other expats read it, it posted it in a couple different places and I got really nice messages back saying, oh this is so me. This is exactly what I experienced or I'm experiencing this now, thank you for writing. And then one other expat actually reached out to me. She was living in North Macedonia and she's like, if you need a break you come visit me. So I did that a few weeks later I went over and I visited her and we spent, you know, the weekend together and she was a, an American expat and it was just really nice and sort of the start of me building friendships and sort of since that point I've built a few more friendships sort of in that way through the articles I've written and through just participating with the expat groups. 

 

Kristin:    00:47:00    Yeah. Um, because people really want to integrate with the local community, but it's also very important to meet other foreigners, whether they're from your home country or another one because you can relate to them as well. It can be a bit overwhelming to just try to assimilate a hundred percent to another culture so quickly. And if you're not from there and it's not your native language, like it's probably never gonna happen anyway. So it's just enjoy the degree of integration that you come to organically over time. And also relate back, calling a friend from home. Yeah. Meeting with a woman from the US who lives nearby, even another country, you know, just hopping over to a border, getting a new experience. These are all little ways, they're coping mechanisms, but it's just also part of life and part of relating to people and, and part of helping people and processing what's happening by writing about it, by sharing about it with other people in person on the phone and Facebook groups on the internet. That's kind of what we're all here for, is just to help each other through these experiences.  

 

Karen:    00:48:13    Yeah. I had to learn that. And as I'm very self-sufficient and independent and I was, as I say in denial, I didn't realize the value of spending time with other expats. I didn't wanna be just sort of a transplanted Canadian in a American type environment. But it is important and it did give me a lot, if nothing else, we could laugh about their, you know, the things we've done wrong and you know, saying the wrong word at the wrong time and buying things that were not what we thought and we could, you know, let's share our, you know, comical things and that has value. And so now I make sure to do things with other expats and communicate and participate in the group. It's important cuz I am a Canadian, I'm not an Albanian and sometimes I need to talk about Canadian sort of things.  

 

Kristin:    00:49:03    <laugh>. Yeah. I saw that you bought butter instead of cheese or vice versa. And cuz you underestimate how many things you're are done on autopilot by your brain every day.   

 

Karen:    00:49:16    Oh, groceries are like  

 

Kristin:    00:49:18    <laugh>, right? You were talking about how all the packages are in different languages. So you might see things in Turkish and Greek and Albanian and all these different languages. So navigating the grocery store is something that in Canada you might just walk through and just autopilot, like, you know which aisle to go to, you know what you're gonna grab. And then here it becomes you know, three hours in the grocery store, <laugh>, Google, translating everything and, and in the markets.  

 

Karen:    00:49:47    But you can't, you can't Google translate everything cuz you'd be there for days. Like Yeah. So that's why you end up buying the wrong thing cuz you're like, okay, this looks like it and you grab it because you've already been there an hour and people are starting to wonder what, you know, you're <laugh>. So that's why that happens. This is like, that's I, I'm not sure this is cheese, but it looks like cheese. So in it goes, that's how that happens. 

 

Kristin:    00:50:13    Yeah. And then you end up trying new foods too. And you've also learned that one of the most expensive delicacies outside of North America is maple syrup.  

 

Karen:    00:50:24    Yes.  

 

Kristin:    00:50:25    I saw that it cost the same price there that it did in Costa Rica, it's like $40 for a bottle. <laugh> not a bottle, but I don't know  

 

Karen:    00:50:33    For a liter. Yeah.  

 

Kristin:    00:50:35    Yeah. The most expensive thing.  

 

Karen:    00:50:38    But I mean there's other good stuff, but yes.  

 

Kristin:    00:50:41    Yeah. What are some of the foods that you've tried that you really like there?  

 

Karen:    00:50:45    Well, everything is local and seasonal. So I just love that aspect. So when you go whatever fruits are, are coming in and so they, I mean they grow so much here, so I just love that, you know, when I buy my fresh fruit, it's so good. I really like, uh, something called Qofte, which is basically a savory meatball. It's made in different ways depending where you go. And sometimes it's put in sauces and things, which says a lot because I'm mostly vegetarian. So the fact that I like the Qofte <laugh>, that's kind of my go-to.  

 

Kristin:    00:51:19    Must be good.  

 

Karen:    00:51:21    It is good. Actually, not always. I've had a couple that was like, hmm, no, it's all good. But generally speaking, I really like the fish here in Pogradec there's a local fish called Corinne. So I've had that a few times.  

 

Kristin:    00:51:34    Is it like a trout? because I've noticed like it, okay.  

 

Karen:    00:51:38    Yeah, it's a trout. And then there's a smaller version which is much less expensive, but it's the same fish, it's younger, smaller in size and whatever. Less mature I, I think it tastes better, even the smaller one. So I eat that quite often and yeah.  

 

Kristin:    00:51:54    And you're a fan of the Turkish coffee too?  

 

Karen:    00:51:57    Oh yes. Every morning <laugh>. So when I left, like I'd never had espresso and I'd never had Turkish coffee and that's all I drink here. Pretty much. A few weeks in I managed to find a French press. So once in a while when I want, you know, a bunch of coffee, I'll make a small thing of American style coffee and, and have it. But every morning is pretty much Turkish coffee with a little cookie trying to not eat too many cookies but --

 

Kristin:    00:52:26    <laugh>  

 

Karen:    00:52:27    And when I go out it's espresso.  

 

Kristin:    00:52:29    That's funny. I, I didn't know they had Turkish coffee there. I just indulged in quite a few Turkish coffees and sweets when I was in Istanbul recently. But I definitely miss the seasonal produce in Eastern Europe. I think the food there is really underrated. Maybe some people would think that it's not simple, but I guess because they eat local and they eat seasonal it, you know, it's not so like French food, you know, that can be no so complicated to make. Like you can have really delicious meals using local ingredients but not overly prepared.  

 

Karen:    00:53:06    There are restaurants that gets pretty fancy, but you pay for that too. Yeah. Generally speaking the food, I mean I'm only speaking for Pogradec. Um, Tirana's big city with a whole diverse restaurant options probably you can get everything there. But here the food is fairly simple but it's well prepared. It's good, it's local.  

 

Kristin:    00:53:28    And so I have one more cultural adaptation question for you. How has Vincent the cat adapted to life in Albania?  

 

Karen:    00:53:36    Well, Vincent is now a wild cat of Albania  

 

Kristin:    00:53:40    <laugh>.  

 

Karen:    00:53:41    I tried to keep him inside cuz he was an indoor cat and very, very spoiled. And because I have a shared entrance, he kept trying to get out. So then we went, let him out and then just supervised and I'd get all worried and then that evolved into, okay, he can be out whenever he wants, but on a lead. And then I went away for two weeks traveling and the family here took care of Vincent for me and when I came back it was all over. He just loves it outside, but he comes back. My my worry was that he would take off. Yeah. And be, because he is an indoor cat. Yeah. He's ill-prepared for these other wild cats,  

 

Kristin:    00:54:20    Street life--  

 

Karen:    00:54:21    Wild cats and wild dogs that are everywhere. Not to mention chickens and things. Yeah. I just thought he wasn't gonna be able to cope and he just, but no, he's fine. You know, even the cats, the other cats that come into the yard, they hiss and fight and he just looks at them like <laugh> whatevs, you know

 

Kristin:    00:54:37     he's like, I'm not gonna participate in that. Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:54:40    That's kind of the look. He just looks at them and so, oh my worries were completely ridiculous. And he's happy and so he's good.  

 

Kristin:    00:54:50    Yeah. He's probably happy that he doesn't have to brave the Canadian winters anymore either.  

 

Karen:    00:54:56    Yeah. And he, you know, he is got a non-stop show outside people and chickens and cats and dogs and he just watches  

 

Kristin:    00:55:04    <laugh>. So fun. I noticed all of the stray animals in Istanbul. I think I saw a statistic that it was around 400,000 stray cats and dogs there and it's been for Millennium and they have created a few different documentaries about it and one of them is Istanbul through the eyes of a stray dog where they follow dogs around. I bookmarked it. I think it's on Netflix or something. 

 

Karen:    00:55:32    Yeah. Yeah. I'll check that.  

 

Kristin:    00:55:33    I'll look for it and we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. But I always think that that would be funny, you know, seeing like Albania through the eyes of Vincent, like I wonder what the animals perceive.  

 

Karen:    00:55:44    Oh, I wish I knew what he was thinking. Yeah,  

 

Kristin:    00:55:47    Yeah, same here. Yeah.  

 

Karen:    00:55:49    <laugh>. But I am really happy I brought him, I mean I got a lot of, of eye rolls and like really you're bringing your cat. And then I got shamed because he was in cargo.  

 

Kristin:    00:55:59    Right.  

 

Karen:    00:55:59    Well  

 

Kristin:    00:56:00    <laugh>, he survived.

 

Karen:    00:56:01     He survived. And not only he survived, he's doing great. But during the first few months, I was definitely happy to have him here. He's a very affectionate cat. So it was like I had someone to cuddle and someone to take care of too meant I had to go out. I had to go and get him food and find giddy litter and stuff like that. 

 

Kristin:    00:56:19  Yeah. Amazing.  

 

Karen:    00:56:21    Yep. Vincent is just fine. <laugh>  

 

Kristin:    00:56:25    <laugh> good to hear, where can people follow your journeys? You have Medium. YouTube. What are those websites where people can follow along?  

 

Karen:    00:56:34    We could find everything at karenespig.art. There's an Albanian notebook section, and right under is all the social media icons, so that's the easiest way. Pick your poison. I've got everything going on now. <laugh>  

 

Kristin:    00:56:48    On medium. It's Karen Espig, so E S P I G. Lots of great personal blogs, travel blogs on there, and with your YouTube channel. I'll plug it for you. <laugh> <laugh>, it is Karen Espig Travel and Art, and you have some travel videos on there from your regional travels to Hungary to North Macedonia, and also some lovely videos of your sketches and paintings in progress and in some of the scenery around there. So all of the art lovers out there and travel lovers. Check out Karen's YouTube channel and keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for being a part of my community here, Traveling with Kristin and Badass Digital Nomads. It's been great to get to know you over the past couple of years, and that's how you ended up on the podcast. Anyway, I think I saw one of your blog articles where we were chatting, and I just was so interested in what you were doing, so thank you for sharing your story. It probably would be pretty surreal to think back to 2020 that you would be <laugh> Yeah. On the podcast a couple years later.  

 

Karen:    00:58:00    Yes, and I think that's amazing that it's come full circle and it's all your fault that I'm here,  

 

Kristin:    00:58:06    <laugh>, sorry. Guilty as charged.  

 

Karen:    00:58:08    Yeah. Yes, so thank you.  

 

Kristin:    00:58:10    You're welcome. Well, enjoy everything over there in Albania. I hope to come back and visit that beautiful country very soon. Maybe we can share a Turkish coffee and some cookies together. Certainly, you know, a little bit of a guilty influence here, <laugh>. But yeah, thanks for sharing your time with us today, and we'll see you on the internet. Yep,  

 

Karen:    00:58:31    You too. I'll keep listening.  

 

Kristin:    00:58:35    I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If so, why not share the Love? You can support the show by leaving us a five-star review wherever you listen, or by sharing today's episode on social media or with a friend, coworker, or family member, you can also make a contribution to the show at www.badassdigitalnomads.com/support. There you'll find links to donate on PayPal, buy me a coffee, or by joining my Patreon, where for $5 per month, you get to preview my videos before they're published on YouTube, and also participate in monthly private Zoom hangouts with myself and other patrons. That's at badassdigitalnomads.com/support. Thank you so much and see you again next week. 



 

Karen EspigProfile Photo

Karen Espig

Artist / Expat

Karen Espig is a Canadian artist and recent expat. She relocated to Albania in February of 2022, having retired from her nine-to-five so that she could pursue art and travel full-time. She candidly shares her experiences, photography and art as she navigates this new journey.