We Built This City 1985

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, Making Theology Central, September the tenth, nineteen eighty five. September the tenth, nineteen eighty five? Where were you? What were you doing? Were you even alive? Some of you weren't alive on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, So you're going to be like, well, I was nowhere. But for those of you who were alive on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, where were you when you heard this? This? Do you remember that We Built This City? By Starship from their album Knee Deep in Hooplaw. Knee Deep in Hooplaw. It was released on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, and the first track was we Built this City? Do you remember that? Well, we're gonna be talking about that song and maybe how it connects to Biblical hermeneutics. Maybe do you think we should try? We're going to try. We're gonna do that, but first I have to tell everyone, good afternoon, Welcome.

1:31 It is Monday, November the eighteenth, twenty twenty four, not nineteen eighty five anymore. It is November the eighteenth, twenty twenty four. It is currently three eleven pm Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now. I was in Abilene, Texas on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five. In fact, I was at a record store and I purchased Knee Deep in Hooplah by Starship. I had heard a little bit about it, and I was more curious because wait a minute, we see their name has changed. Wait, wait, what has happened? I looked at the cover, I'm like, wait, this does not look at like the Wait what happened to this band? Why was the name changed? What is going on? Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship? Wait Starship? Well what is happening? Okay, all right? And so then I'm like, well, you know, let's get it. Let's get it, let's get it.

2:29 So I purchased the album, and I can't remember, I don't care. I don't remember which format I purchased it in. I can't remember. I think it was CD. I think I think I purchased it on CD. But I remember as soon as I hit play and I heard we built this city. Okay, we built this city on rock and roll. And then as soon as basically the drum machine kicks in, I can't play anymore for copyright reasons, all right. As soon as the drum machine kicked in, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa? What happened? We're not in CA anymore? This is not the band I remember this. The psychedelic rock is gone. This is pure eighties pop. This is electronic drum machine. What has happened?

3:15 And well? I then started listening to the song and then I hit repeat, and then I listened to the song and I hit repeat, and I listened to the song and then I just kept repeating it over and over and over and over and over. I'm like, what is going on here? First I was just because something had changed. The band was not what they were. Something had changed, and it was catchy. It was like an earworm, right, It gets into your head. You can't get away from it. But then I started trying to figure out what the song was about, and I came to a conclusion about what it was about. And then I kind of found myself nobody agrees with me. Nobody agrees and year after year after year, we'd hear people talk about this. We Built This City by Starship, released on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five. If you don't know, it has been voted on many lists as the worst song of all time.

4:15 It's been voted one of the worst songs of all time or the worst song of all times. I mean, the song is despised and hated by music critics. They loathe it. Now many fans kind of look back on it with kind of a nostalgic view and they're like, oh, that was the eighties. That was so much fun. Music was so happy. But even when they start talking about it, I'm like, when the critics give their interpretation, I'm kind of like, no, disagree. When the average person talks about it, I'm like, did you even listen to what the song was about? So I find myself kind of on the outside and well, I don't agree with anyone, And so it makes me think in some ways of my reviewing sermons and biblical hermaeutics, because so many times I'm like, wait, well, what is the what are you talking about? Some people just look at the text of scriptures such a shallow way and I'm like, that's that's not what the text is about. Others try to give an interpretation, and I'm like, that's not what the text is about. So in some ways, when I whenever I hear we built this city by starship, I immediately now think about my never ending frustration with Christianity and with biblical hermaeutics. I know it's kind of you may feel like that's a weird, weird connection, but I think it's all going to make sense before we done so. So we're gonna just just for those who, just just so that you remember, I've got to at least do it one more time, right this what this city?

5:50 I mean? Come on, I mean, don't you remember that? I mean some of you. If you don't, just look it up. We built this city by starship on your favorite music streaming app. Go listen to it now, right because you'll know what I'm talking about. And you may want to pull up the lyrics because we may need those lyrics. I have all the lyrics right here. We may have to look at them. But let me try to explain what is going on. Let me try to explain. I gotta pull up here all of my notes because I have a lot of notes. Here's what was happening. I was having a conversation with AI. What That's how I ended up here, right, I started having a conversation with AI, and here's what was going on. I was trying to see how AI works and creating basically a playlist of music. Right. I was just looking around, going Okay, how could AI be utilized to bring up music? And there's some things that can do pretty well, other things that can't. But it's really good at saying hey, November.

6:50 And this is what I said. I said, AI, please give me the top thirty songs of November the eighteenth, nineteen eighty five. Give me the top thirty songs of November the eighteenth, nineteen eighty five, because today is November the eighteenth. I just randomly chose eighty five. There was no reason I prefer. I typically prefer more modern music than older music because I hate nostalgia. I hate that whole thing. Right, I listen to older music, but I prefer to be listening to what came out, you know, well on Friday, I want to I want to be listening to all the new albums, not so much the old. But AI is not really good at getting me the what's current on the charts. Now, if I can ask just the top songs of the top thirty songs of November eighteenth, twenty twenty four, it will give me the top Billboard. I think I can't say November the eighteenth, I just have to say November twenty twenty four, and then it will pull the top thirty songs from the Billboard Billboard Top one hundred and so that works really well.

7:54 I can keep up with what's going on on the current chart because I think the current Billboard chart is dated November the second. I believe I'd have to would have to verify that or aless that's the most current information. AI will, we'll, we'll get so so I but if I go back to older I can get to a very specific date, and AI is perfect at that. So I pulled up thirty songs. There were some songs on there that I knew. Glenn Fry was on there from I think the album All Nighter, and then there was We Built This City by Starship, and I was like, huh, okay. So I just started listening to the song and I listened to it a couple of times, and I was like, Hmmm, I wonder if AI has anything to say about the song.

8:39 I wonder if AI will say anything about all of the controversy that I've had to argue about basically my end, and ever since September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, I've been arguing about this song. I feel like from the day I purchased the album, all right, so I'm like, I wonder, I wonder. So the name of the album is Knee Deep in Hoopla, and this is what AI had to say say. Knee Deep in Hooplaw is the debut studio album by the American rock band Starship, which is just crazy to hear them. It refers to them as the debut studio album, but because the band had changed, there was lawsuits, there was issues over So this is kind of the reformation of I guess we'll call them Starship and their debut album. I won't get into an entire long history of you know, rock and roll, but here we go. So this was their debut studio album by the American rock band Starship, released on September of the tenth, nineteen eighty five. The album marked a significant shift from the band's earlier psychedelic rock roots, embracing a more polished pop rock sound characteristic of the mid nineteen eighties.

9:51 So the release an album that shows a major transition, a major move away from the past and embracing the sounds of nineteen eighty five drum machines, synthesizers. Some may say way over produced, all of the studio effects that so characterize nineteen eighties music. You hear nineteen eighties music, you know it because of the studio production. Now, there were some bands in the eighties who kind of rejected that sound and rejected that production, and they kept a more raw sound and more organic, not so overly produced.

10:32 But the sound of the album Knee Deep in Hooplah is clearly right smack in the middle of nineteen eighties pop music. Now, the key tracks on the album is obviously, we Built this City. This was the lead single, and it became a number one hit on the Billboard Hot one hundred chart. Now, remember it was popular. Even though it's been voted the worst song of all time, it was popular. It made it to number one. Obviously, the second song that was so popular in the album, everyone knows what was her name? Come on, everyone, what was her name. Her name was Sarah Right. That was the name of the song. It's called se ok. It was another chart topping single, showcasing the bands the band's softer, more melodic side right Now the album details it was labeled pop rock. That was the genre. Okay, our album oriented rock AOAR, as it's often referred to in the music industry. The album was about forty minutes long, and Peter Wolfe, interesting enough, was one of the producers. But I won't get into his significance or anything. See. I was one of those people who spent all my time reading every bit of the liner notes in an album. Right, I wanted to read everything. I want to go, Oh, who is the studio musicians? If they used them? Use them?

11:54 Who was the songwriters? Who was the producer? All right Now. Upon its release, Knee Deep in Hooplaw received mixed reviews. While some critics praised its catchy melodies and production qualities, others criticized it for straying too far from the band's original sound. Now a lot of people do that they love a band and they want that band to sound the same five years from now, ten years from now, thirty years from now. It's typically older people. I don't know what's wrong with music today because they want everything to sound like it did fifty years ago. I don't know why they. I don't want music to ever change. Just keep giving me the hits, and it's like, come on, music is supposed to change. It's supposed to evolve, and bands should evolve. If a band doesn't evolve, that's a negative thing. But people criticized it. Now I was confused by it. I didn't criticize it. I was like, wait, what happened to the band? This is not this is not the Starship the Jefferson Airplane of the past. What happened? Right?

12:58 But wait, Grace Slickett, Okay, get all the discussions I was having with myself about music. But I was like, huh, what's going on? So I kept listening to the song over and over and over, and I think it took me forever to get to Sarah because I just kept listening to We Built the City, We Built the City, because I was like, what is going on here? But even though it received mixed reviews, the album achieved commercial success, being certified platinum by the RIAA. The recording industry of whatever it is America. Well, I don't remember what all the acronym stands for, but the Association of America something along those lines. But it was certified platinum, all right, So it was a hit. It was a hit ladies and gentlemen. It was a hit. Now people later on. Now, the critics hated it. And that happens all the times in music, right, Sometimes the albums the critics love, the people hate, and sometimes the albums that the people love the critics hate. That's kind of the way it works. Now.

13:59 Over the years, Knee Deep in Hoopla has been both celebrated for its mainstream appeal, but it's also been critiqued for its departure from the band's earlier, more experimental work. The track We Built This City has been particularly polarizing, often cided in discussions about nineteen eighties pop music. So the song has been criticized and debated. Now, I don't know if you were ever a part of the debates.

14:41 I don't know what side you may be in on the debates about the song, but I had strong opinions about it. So I was like, well, okay Ai at least acknowledges that the song was polarizing and it was often cited in discussions about nineteen eighties pop music. Yes, it's cited, it's debated, it's argued, and people tend to have strong emotions about it. I mean, look, if the song is voted one of the worst songs ever written, then clearly there are strong emotions about it. So I had to ask Ai why I think I asked it this way? What was what was these or what was there so much debated about we Built the City? I think I worded it incorrectly. Hey, I knew what I was trying to say. I think of what I was asking or trying to ask us? What was so debated about the song? Why was the song so debated about?

15:39 What was the issue with the song? So Ai responded, The song We Built a City by Starship has been one of the most polarizing songs and music history, sparking debate, debates, debates among critics and listeners, and even the band members themselves. Everyone has an opinion about the band members aren't happy with it, critics hated, Fans either love it or hated. Everyone has strong opinions and my estimation, everyone misinterprets the song. That's my own interpretation. So here is AI's explanation for why this song is the most polarizing song in music history.

16:28 What is it about? We built this city? We built this city on rock and roll? How could that spark so much debate? How could that lead to all of this? Well? Number one, AI points out that many feel that there is a disconnect between the theme of the song and the execution of the song. They feel that there's a disconnect. Hey, here's the theme, but here's how we're going to execute it, And people's like these these are contradicting, and I disagree with this estimation, But here's what they say. The song was intended to criticize the corporate idea of the music industry, that the music industry had become so corporate, with lyrics reflecting a yearning for the authenticity of rock and roll.

17:23 So the song is supposed to be like, what happened to music? It's become corporate, it's become mainstream. Don't you remember that we built this city on rock and roll? Don't you remember how music was? Don't you long for how it was? They say that's what the song was about, but they felt that there was a disconnect between that theme and the execution because critics would point out that the polished production, the synthesized sound, the drum machines, had a corporate feel for the song and that it clashed with its anti corporate message. To some, it symbolized the very thing it criticized. So for many critics there would be like, this song is the very thing it's criticizing.

18:19 It's criticizing what music is. Well, it's the very thing it's criticizing, and everyone like, there's a disconnect. And I wanted to scream, there's not a disconnect. It's supposed to be what it's criticizing. How are you not catching on? I will explain my interpretation in a minute. But everyone felt that there was a disconnect. That the theme was what happened to music became so corporate, seem become so commercialized, so mainstream, we've it's lost the reality of what rock and roll was. And then the lyrics are don't you remember we built this city on rock and roll? Don't you remember that? Don't you long for that? And people say, well, there's a disconnect because the song musically is exactly what it's criticizing. I think that's the whole point. Most people did not see that. A second criticism, it was a departure from Jefferson Airplane's roots. Starship was an evolution of Jefferson Airplane, a band famous for its nineteen sixties counterculture and psychedelic rock. Fans of Jefferson Airplane viewed the We Built This City as a betrayal of the band's rebellious roots, embracing mainstream, commercialized pop instead of their earlier experimental style.

19:44 So people like back in the day, they weren't sellouts, they stayed true. I don't want and I can't stand that. Oh I hate people. Look if something changes and becomes more commercialized or more mainstream, you don't I hate it just because it's commercialized or mainstream. That's just ridiculous, Right, you like it, It doesn't matter if it's popular. It doesn't matter if it's unpopular. Don't allow unpopularity to control you or popularity to control you. Let the song control you. Okay, So did the band change? Absolutely? And I think it was Jefferson air I think it went jeff Jefferson Airplane, Starship then Jefferson Starship, Or did it go Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship then just Starship. I can't remember. I think there was three different names at some point. You can verify that. I'm going from memory here. I could look it up, but I'm going from memory. But on September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, they were simply called Starship, and that was their debut album as Starship. So, in a roundabout way, why are we connecting them to their previous work? They're really different now, right, and so the name is different and it's a different era, it's a different sound. Now, let's base it off that. But okay, so some people had criticism there. Number three. Some people criticized the song because of its polarizing production style. The nineteen eighties production was characterized by heavy use of synthesizers and drum machines. And all you have to do is

21:15 listen to we Built this City. As soon as they're done with that a cappella, we built this City, boom, the drum machine comes in heavy. While this was popular at the time, some critics felt it made the song overly artificial and generic. Well, again, I think you're missing the point. It's supposed to be overly artificial, it's supposed to be generic. It's supposed to be the very thing that you're complaining about, because that's the whole point of the song. All right, but okay, all right, I'll give you my interpretition in a minute. Now. There were criticisms. There was criticisms about the lyrics. One lyric was Marconi plays the mamba. This somehow confused listeners and was seen as nonsensical or overly abstract. How could you not understand Marconi plays the mamba? How do you not understand Marconi plays the mamba? Marconi is the guy who created radio.

22:16 Radio plays the mamba. It's the idea that radio was created, and well, over time, it gave us different sounds and we explored and discovered music. Marconi plays the mamba is about radio. How do you not get that? Right? Like, come on, people, right, okay, But once again, this is how why I connect this to biblical hermeneutics. People couldn't. Now I do agree, and September tenth, nineteen eighty five, to be fair, I will be fair here. When I first listened to the song, A lot I don't know because I typically don't look at the lyrics at first, right, I typically don't look at the lyrics at first I just listened to the song, right, I listened to the music, the production, and then letter on and I get to the lyrics. So there was a period of time that Marconi plays the Mamba. I think I thought it was saying something like Macaroni plays the mamba, and I was like, what is this? What is it? And I think I heard a lot of people are interpreted Marconi plays the mamba as Macaroni, and I was like, no, it's Marconi.

23:19 After I realized that it was Marconi, then I was And I don't think I initially knew. I think I had to go I read something trying to figure out what Marconi was about, and then realize I can't remember his first name started with a G. I don't have it in front of me, but Marconi something G. Marconi was like the creator of radio, of the radio, and so then well you can see what's going on here. But a lot of people criticize lyrics like that, but their criticism was based on them not understanding the lyric. Don't criticize the lyric if you don't understand the lyric. Don't say it's nonsensical. It's only nonsensical because you don't understand it now. Another reason it was criticized is overexposure.

24:02 The song's immense popularity made it. I mean, you couldn't escape it. It was ubiquitous. You could not escape it in the eighties, so it led to listener fatigue. And guess what, anytime a song becomes overplayed, people are going to hate it. I hate this song because I've heard it too many times. If I heard it fifteen times, I would like it. But I've heard it fifty, so now it's trash. What I guess if you hear a song too many times, it's not good. What's that number? Is it twenty times? Thirty times? Here's a novel idea. Instead of listening to a radio that only has a playlist of forty or fifty songs, you could just go listen to other things and still appreciate the song. Just because you heard it too much, that's your problem. That's not a problem with the song. That's a problem with you.

24:46 Oh people of music drive me crazy? All right? But number six another criticism of the song as well. It's been voted the worst song ever all right. Blender magazine one named it the worst song of all time. Critics called it empty and vapid, accusing it of being emblematic of everything wrong with nineteen eighties pop, and it's like, that's the point of this song. What is wrong with you people? How do you not understand a pop song? If you can't understand a pop song, then by all means, don't try to interpret anything deeper. You're going to harm yourself.

25:29 It's supposed to be empty, it's supposed to be vapid, it's supposed to be emblematic of everything wrong with them, because the song constantly says, do you remember? Do you remember? What? Are you remembering? You're remembering what music was, But this is what music is now. It's it's to be a contrast. Even the band members didn't necessarily like the song, and many of them saying that they had little creative control over the song's direction. So the band members don't like it. They didn't like it, but they felt that it was out of there. They didn't have any control. The producers are like, this is what we're doing now. I don't know if the producers had what I think should be the interpretation in mind, but whether it was the intended interpretation or the intended meaning, I think the meaning is well, I think it's really clear. So I then asked AI was like, because AI said all of that, So I was like, well, wait a minute here, I've got a problem here. So I was like, wait a minute. So I started having a debate with AI, and I was like, basically my argument was, I think everyone has misinterpreted the song.

26:47 I think everyone is wrong here. So I wrote something like this, is it possible? I finally had to say is it possible? Because we were going back and forth, So finally I asked, Ai, is it possible everyone is missing how this song could be understood as being brilliant? The song mentions and then I quoted some lyrics you don't know me or recognize my face? Don't you remember? And then I stated the song seems to be calling to remember what music was, while giving the message using the music of the time as an example of how it changed. The whole point of the song is, Hey, you don't even recognize my face. Don't you remember? The city was built on rock and roll? But it's changed, it's different. Well, what's the best way to communicate that change?

27:50 By making a song utilizing the pop music of nineteen eighty five? In all of its overproduction, it's synthesizers, it's drum machine, and then using it in a way that may seem somewhat vapid or empty or meaningless to really capture what it's trying to say. So AI took a minute. AI kind of was like, huh, I'm not so sure. And then AI was like, well, that's an intriguing interpretation, and it's entirely possible that we built this city is more layered and intentional than it's often given credit for.

28:34 Ai said this, your perspective speaking of me highlights a potential brilliance in the song that critiques the industry while also participating in it, serving as both a message and an example of its point. Here's how your interpretation could reshape the way we understand the song. And I almost like, oh, I wasn't expecting Ai to do this. I was like, oh, yes, So Ai decided to take my interpretation, apply it to the song and see if it works. And I was like, I can't wait. I've been debating this at September the tenth of nineteen eighty five. It's now November twenty twenty four.

29:19 Finally maybe someone will agree with me. And I'm going to have to turn to a non human to get agreement. Okay, So I'm like, come on, AI, come on, say something positive here. So AI broke down my interpretation into the following points. Number one a call to remember music's roots. So it takes my interpretation and says, maybe if we go with my interpretation, the song is a call to remember music's roots. The lyrics you don't know me or recognize my face? And don't you remember we built this city on rock and roll could be interpreted as a plea for listeners to remember the origins of music, the role, rebellious and authentic energy of rock and roll. The song might be speaking as the voice of rock itself, lamenting how it has been forgotten or transformed by commercial interest.

30:27 Now I think that there's a lot of truth today. In fact, let me go back to the song. Let me read the lyrics here, all right. It starts off, we built this city. We built this city on rock and roll. Built this city, We built this city on rock and roll. And then immediately look what it says, say you don't know me or recognize my face, say you don't care? Who goes to that kind of place? Knee deep in hooplah, sinking in your fight. Too many runways the night. Marconi plays the mamba. Now listen, listen to the radio. See Marcona plays the mamba. Listen to the radio. Marcona is the inventor of radio. Listen to the radio. And then it says, okay, so you've got Marconi plays the mamba. There's radio. Listen to the radio.

31:19 And when you listen to the radio, don't you remember? Now? Why? What don't? It's almost asking don't you remember? Because if you listen now you may not hear it. In fact, the example is the song that's playing we built the City is using the very music of nineteen eighty five, and what it's saying is, hey, hey, hey, you listen to the radio. What you're gonna hear we built the city? But don't you remember? We built this city on rock and roll? We built this city. We built the city on rock and roll. Built this city. We built the city on rock and roll. Some one's always playing corporation games.

32:02 Who cares? They're always changing corporation names. We just want to dance here. Someone stole the stage. They call us irresponsible and write us off the page. Macaroni plays the Mamba. Listen to the radio, don't you remember we built this city? See it constantly is saying, here's what's going on, but don't you remember, Well, guess what's the best way to communicate that with the very music that encapsulates the very thing they're wanting? Their their mourning, their mourning. What happened to music? By giving you the music of the time. It's brilliant, but most people misunderstand it. Now back to Ai Ai goes back. If I can here, if I can go all the way back. So the song might be speaking as basically as the voice of rock and roll, lamenting how it had been forgotten or transformed by commercial interests.

32:59 The music had been transformed, don't you remember? What's a good way to know that it's been transformed? Listen to We Built the City by Starship September the tenth, nineteen eighty five, and you'll hear how music had changed dramatically from the past. So it's a call to remember music roots Number two, using nineteen eighties pop music to make the point. The polished, synthesizer heavy production might not just be an unfortunate irony. It could be a deliberate choice to embody the very critique the song is making. That's been my argument since September the tenth, nineteen eighty five. By using the mainstream, commercialized sound of the nineteen eighties, the song reflects how rock and roll has been rebranded and commodified turn into a commodity. So it uses the very sound of the eighties to reflect how rock and roll had been rebranded and commodified. This creates a meta narrative that the song sound is an example of the very thing it is mourning, that's thinking brilliant, and I don't know how people never cut on the sound. Everyone's like it's a disconnect. It's not a disconnect, it's it's brilliant.

34:23 It's using the very sound to give you an example of the very thing it's critiquing, or the very thing it's morning, it's brilliant. A third thing. Then this is AI taking my interpretation and breaking it down that the song then becomes a self aware critique. If this interpretation is correct, speaking of mine we built this city could be seen as a self aware critique that blurs the line between message and medium. The lyrics point to the spirit of rock and roll being co opted the music demonstrates exactly what the lyrics criticize, creat an intentional tension that forces the listener to confront the contradiction. Hey, here's this hoppy Oh it so sounds so and just it.

35:08 Just think there's a contradiction in the song, right, it's this upbeat we built this city. I mean, I mean I can't play it, but go listen to it. It's upbeat, it's happy. It almost puts a smile on your face. But it's a song mourning what had been lost. Don't you remember we built this city. See what it is isn't what it was. So the music demonstrates exactly what the lyrics criticize. It creates an intentional tension that forces the listener to confront the contradiction. Well, nobody confronted the contradiction. Everybody's just like it's supposed to be a contradiction there. We're just like, well, this just is a disconnect. It's just ironic. It just makes no sense. This is the worst song ever written. I'm like, you just don't get it.

35:52 You don't get it. You don't get it, you don't get it. Number four Nostalgia meets the present. The line don't you remember we built the city on rock and roll? Could be seen as addressing an audience that has become desensitized to music's history and emotional power due to the rise of commercialized pop. By putting these by just staposing nostalgia for the past, it's kind of putting these next to each other. Here's nostalgia for the past with the reality of nineteen eighties pop music. So you have nostalgia for the past put next to the reality of nineteen eighties pop music, the song might ask. Then listeners reflect on how far the industry has moved from its roots?

36:44 Are you don't you remember we built the city on rock and roll? Now, listen to the song you're listening to. It's juxtaposing, it's putting them as a way to compare and contrast. That's brilliant Number five. According to my interpretation, the song has layers of irony and meaning. Surface irony on a superficial level, the song seems to embrace the commercial sound at critiques, making it easy to dismiss as hypocritical, but there could be a deeper meaning. On a deeper level, the song's ironic tone could be intentional, forcing listeners to think critically about the state of music. The upbeat and basic anthem like style might lord listeners in, only for the lyrics to remind them of what has been lost, Like we built this city. Oh this is so good?

37:42 Wait what am I remembering here? What am I remembering? We built a city on rock and roll? What a oh? Yeah? Things have changed? A lot that has changed. It's supposed to have you after you're kind of lured in with the anthem and the pop and the drum machines and the synthesizers, that you're confronted with, Wait, what has been lost? Number six a deliberate ambiguity. By embracing both the sound of the times and a critique of the sound, the song walks a fine line that allows it to be interpreted multiple ways. For fans of nineteen eighties pop, it's a celebratory anthem. For critics of the music industry, it's a lament disguised as a hit. That's been my argument since nineteen eighty five. Instead of dismissing we built this City as contradictory or shallow, it might be more accurate to see it as a brilliant paradox. It critiques the very system it participates in forcing listeners to wrestle with the complexities of music, art, and commerce. It's layered message challenges us to ask whether we've forgotten the true spirit of rock and roll even as we dance to the glossy nineteen eighties hit right Hey, have you forgotten the

39:13 true meaning of the spirit of Well wait wait, I'll get back to contemplating the true meaning of the spirit of rock. But I gotta dance right now because we built the cities on see. I love that contradiction, that conflict, that contrast. So this is what AI said that my interpretation offers a fresh and compelling way to view we built this city as a work of art that's far more thoughtful and intentional than its critics often acknowledge. By using the sound of its era to deliver a message about the transformation of music, it becomes both a time capsule and a critique, a layered, ironic masterpiece that continues to provoke discussion all the way to November twenty twenty four.

40:09 Because we're still talking about people are still debating the song, and they just don't get it. They don't see it, they don't understand, They just hear the drum machine. They may get the lyrics, but they just miss They missed the entire point. Now, why have I spent forty minutes talking about we built this city and offering well the interpretation, Well one, because I just want everyone to hear my interpretation, because I've been trying to get people to listen to me since nineteen eighty five and no. In fact, my first argument about it was with my English teacher. My English teacher in high school. She realized that, well, I didn't fit in with anybody, but I loved music. So she just had this. She would talk to me about music.

40:53 Sometimes at lunch we would go sit in her car and listen to music, all kinds of things. In fact, she she knew someone or was dating someone who worked at the local newspaper, and she let me write a review about a new Billy Squire album and had it published in the paper. So that was that was someone I could talk to music about. And I think I argued with her about the song. I'm like, what are you talking about? You're misinterpreting. You're an English teacher. You talk, you talk, you teach and talk about literature. You can't interpret a pop song for crying out loud, you need to quit your job. Okay, I probably said something along those lines, not probably somewhat in a joking way that typically my joking gets me in trouble. But I have always argued that the song is it's so brilliant, but you gotta see it, Like, if you're going to get the song, you got to see what it's trying to say. Now, what does that have to do with hermanutics Because in some ways, I feel like I've been yelling and screaming about the same problem with the Bible. Right, here's the Bible, and the Bible on each page has messages and words, but those words reflect the time in which they were written.

42:15 They reflect a message that was originally given to those people at that time. And we can't just come in and just either miss the point or just make it be whatever we want it to be. You can't just take I know people love to do that with songs, just make them to be whatever they wanted to be. I mean, come on, how many times have you heard politicians you was born in the USA by Bruce Springsteen. I mean, come on, born in the USA by Bruce Springsteen is not a oh America is so good. It is a critique. It's almost a complaint about America, not a celebration of it. But because it's done in a kind of a catchy way, people can't see they can't see the words. They hear the music, and they miss it.

43:01 So many people when they open the Bible, so many pastors, they don't see the text. They see a sermon. There's a sermon to be written. And I got to make it about us, and I gotta make it about me, and I got to make it about you. And I got to take these promises and give them to them, and we destroy the actual meaning of the text. So many times people destroy the actual meaning of songs because they just interpret it about them. Now, it's one thing to do it with a pop song, right, you misunderstand every breath you take by the police. If you misinterpret, you know, Bruce Springstein born in the US. I could go on and on, song after song. If you misinterpret we built this city by Starship, nothing bad happens. I mean, you walk around claiming the song for this, and I may look at you like you're out of your mind.

43:43 You don't even understand it, right, But when it happens to the Bible. See, we're very narcissistic. Whether it comes to poetry, whether it comes to literature, whether it comes to music. We want to make it about us. We interpret it through our lens, our emotions, our wants, our desires. We always make it about us when we come to the Bible. What we have to figure out is what is it saying in its time, in its culture, in its context, by the words that are used. Now, Preacher after preacher says that that's how they approach the scripture, and the next thing you know, they're in Isaiah forty verse one saying that comforts for you and that comforts for me. How did we end up in Isaiah chapter forty verse one, Or we're in Deuteronomy chapter thirty two.

44:34 This is what God does for us? No, this is what God did for them. Oh oh wait, we're in Hebrew six. Wait, that's about us. Or it could be about the Jews getting ready to experience the destruction of the temple in seventy a d. Maybe it has something more to do with them than Oh, it's us, it's us, and we just we just do whatever we want. And I think people have been going to we built the City by Starship since September the tenth, nineteen eighty five. And I think they kind of missed the point. Some of them understand what the lyrics are saying, but they don't understand the music. They don't understand the context. They they're missing, They're missing the entire point. And what I find interesting is a lot of people don't realize that when it comes to her hermoneutics is not just about the Bible. Hermanutics is how you interpret a movie, how you interpret a novel, how you interpret a pop song.

45:29 The same interpretive skills needed for all of those different mediums music, art, poetry, those same skills. Oh there's there's more specialized. Like you know, if you're if you're trying to interpret a movie, you need you know film analysis, right, and you got to know different things about camera angles, u delighting, the setting, you got to know something about the importance of the opening scene. You're gonna have to be learned some specialty, special information about it. But whether it's movies, whether it's a TV show, whatever, it is the same concept supply as far as this trying to understand what is being said beyond just a surface level.

46:13 People go to the Bible like, well, there we go, make it about me. We saw that in Second Corinthians, Chapter ten, the last two messages stronghold, what stronghold is this? Who wha whoa whoa whoa wa Wait wait wait, you're gonna you're gonna interpret the stronghold that way. That's not there. That the text defines what the stronghold is. And then the context of First Corinthians Second Corinthians that probably tells us the very strongholds he's referring to because it refers to their wrong way. We can interpret it, but we have to dig into the text. But no, no, no surface level, insert whatever you want into it. Now, we built this city. I am not saying. Let me make it very clear that I don't know what the original idea was behind whoever was behind it, because even some of the original people behind it, they still seem somewhat confused and frustrated because they lost kind of control of the song and it was produced in the way it was produced right, and then maybe a different like the songwriter may have had one thing in mind, the producers may have had a musical vision, and there may have been conflict there. So there's going to be always debate about the song because I think even the original creators don't really know what exactly they were trying to do.

47:21 But you take the music, you take the lyrics, you put them together, and you kind of like you got this brilliant, almost subversive Hey, don't you remember what music was? Don't you hate that it's become so corporate, it's lost something. Don't you remember we built this city on rock and roll? Don't you remember what it was? And how can I get you to remember what it was? Listen to what it is now? As you listen to this overly produced nineteen eighty five pop hit with synthesizers and drum machines, it's the very thing that shows you how it has changed. That's brilliant. Yet nobody caught on. Everyone missed the boat, And I wonder how many times? And just make sure you know, most people missed the boat. People missed it.

48:19 It wasn't that the majority got it right. The majority got it wrong. It was only a few of us going, I think you've all missed the point. And I think so many times with biblical text, we interpret a passage just because that's the way it's always been interpreted. We don't know any different, and so when someone comes along going I don't think that's the way you should interpret it, everyone immediately like you're wrong, you're wrong, You're wrong. This is the way. And I think sometimes when it comes to songs, you're like, you do realize everyone's missed the point of this song? Oh whatever, whatever. We just like our interpretation and we don't ever like it to be challenged again. When it comes to pop music, you can interpret we built the city anyway you want. I don't really care now if we start talking about music, I'll care because then I'll get very passionate and going, you're out of your ever living mind. Listen to the song again, and then I will say, listen to how do you not get this right? I'll be like, what is wrong with you? But so I will probably be passionate about it.

49:11 But when it comes to the Bible, then I lose my ever living mind. How many sermons have we listened to this year? And I'm just like, what is happening? That's not what the text says, that's not what the text mean, that nobody, that's what are you doing? But the majority of people may tend to go with these interpretations that I think miss the entire point. So I wanted to have a little fun, and I wanted everyone to remember. Now I'm going to go back here. I wanted everyone to remember this with this city. Next time do you hear that song, you may go, wow, there's a lot more going on there than maybe I ever realized.

50:05 Maybe there's more going on in that song that I ever even thought about. And the next time you open your Bible and some pastor gives you some surface level approach to the text and tells you what it means, you may want to stop and go, well, just maybe we built this city on something deeper than this superficial rendering and reading and interpretation. Maybe don't you remember we built this city on rock and roll. Wouldn't it be great that Christians remember that we built Christianity on the exegetical study of scripture. God bless