Trump and Justice

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Have you ever seen a news story that makes you so upset, that bothers you so greatly that it really impacts your emotions for maybe a day, two days, three days, maybe for an entire week. It really makes you emotional. Maybe other people don't get it me other maybe many of you don't even understand that you've never encountered that. But if I'm being honest with you right now, the news article that I saw yesterday has me so upset and so bothered that I've had a hard time really trying to do anything else because I've been like, what, what, what can I do? And the answer is I can't do anything.

0:56 I can't change it. There's nothing I can do about it. And I know that many of those who listen to this program, they are celebrating it. They think it's wonderful, they think it's great. They probably think it's, I don't know, some wonderful gift from God. Who knows how they're going to interpret it. But there are at least some of us, and I'm hoping there are many more. I'm hoping there are a lot of Christians who are bothered by this. I'm my fear is and really the reason I'm so upset by this news story is because I think many Christians are not gonna be bothered by it, and that may be even more troubling than the new story itself.

1:37 And we're gonna talk about it, and I'm going to do the best I can to talk about this in a rational Maybe maybe there's gonna be emotion, but maybe not two I'm gonna try to keep my emotions in check. That's what I'm going to do. And we'll do all of that right after I say good afternoon everyone. It is Tuesday, January the twenty first, twenty twenty five. It is currently two forty pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, I'm going to begin by reading.

2:18 I'm gonna be kind of referencing some scriptures. I'll be kind of reading them, some of it direct, some of it I'll just be kind of summarizing and just offering a few scriptures. That's going to kind of really try to frame this from a in a biblical and philological perspective, So I want you to hear that again. I'm going to reference some scriptures right here. I'm going to offer a summary of some of these scriptures because I want to frame this discussion in a biblical and philological perspective. I mean, this podcast is called Theology Central, So as you listen, if this offends your political ideology, I'm just going to be blunt. I don't care because I'm not here to support or promote your political ideology. I'm here to look at maybe a political ideology from a philological and biblical perspective. Right, I think that I think we just need to get that out of the way. Let's begin by at least referencing Psalm eighty two. Psalm eighty two. Now, depending on your Bible, if you have any kind of like a chapter heading or anything. My Bible, and Psalm eighty two is entitled right here, un Just Judges on just judges that Psalm eighty two kind of the chapter heading is unjust Judges. Not all Bibles have that, but you can tell kind of what this chapter is. At

3:49 least referencing. Here's one kind of like a quote from Psalm eighty two, verses one through four. Maybe more of a paraphrase, but it reads like this, God has taken his place in the divine council, in the midst of the gods. He holds judgment. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Give justice to the weak and the fatherless, Maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute, Rescue the weak and the needy, deliver them from the hand of the wicked. Let me read this again to you one more time? Or right, listen carefully, how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Now? I would have I think most people, if we just set aside this news article that has gotten me so upset, If we set aside the news article, set aside politics. If I was just to ask you, if someone issues a judgment that is unjust, does that not bother you? I think it would. If someone power shows partiality to those who do wrong, those who have done wickedly, would that bother you? I think most of you would say yes, it would bother me.

5:10 I want justice. I don't want partiality to be shown to people who've done something wrong. It bothers me. And psalm eighty two one through four. The psawmis on behalf of the oppress pleads with God to rebuke unjust rulers and judges who favor the wicked and fail to protect the vulnerable. Isaiah fifty nine three through fifteen. Again just reading parts of it, not reading everything, because if I read all of these passages then it'll turn into a lengthy discussion. But I'm at least setting kind of the foundation and kind of just setting kind of what this is really how the perspective in which I'm going to look at this news article that we're going to talk about, all right, Isaiah fifty nine three through fifteen. It reads like this in some parts is turned back. Righteousness stands far away. The truth has stumbled in the public square, and the up and uprightness cannot enter. Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey.

6:16 Isaiah describes the societal breakdown where justice and righteousness are absent. The people acknowledge their sins but also cry out over the consequences. Truth is rejected and those who pursue righteousness are persecuted. Societal break down. Listen to justice is turned back, Righteousness stands far away. The truth has stumbled in the public square. How about Ecclesiastes threes sixteen through seventeen. Moreover, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice even there was wickedness. Hear that again, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice even there was wickedness. And in the place and in the and in the place of righteousness, even there was wickedness.

7:10 The author in Ecclesiastes Iree is observing the corruption of justice and earthly courts and affirms that ultimate judgment will come from God, who sees all and all of these passages, we have some crying out for justice, decrying injustice, decrying partiality, saying that it is wrong. And I think most of us would agree, at least in some level, that we don't like that, we don't want that. We want some sense of justice, some sense of fairness, we don't want partiality. I think we can all say that, at least to some level, because if you throw out justice, you throw that all out, then just injustice reigns. And if there is no justice and there is and we're just and and it's kind of just anarchy, well that that may be great if your side is in control for a little bit. But guess what. I guess you can run around doing whatever you want, But when the other side starts doing the same thing, it turns into total anarchy and chaos, and nobody should want that. Now, imagine now that that sets up kind of the framework here right, how we're gonna look at this. I want you to imagine you are a police officer and you've been given a job to provide security to a specific building, to a specific area. Your job is to protect. Your job is to ensure the right people get in and the wrong people stay out. Your job is to assure that

8:41 the people inside are safe. That's your job, right, And one day you are attacked by a mob of people. You are knocked unconscious, You are you are tased with a taser. You then not all you unconscious, You have a heart attack because of being tased with the taser. Unconscious, tas with the taser heart attack. All of this happens to you, and all you were trying to do was do your job. Now, what if you were to find out that that happens to you unconscious tays with the taser heart attack. What if you were to find out later that Hey, those people who attacked you. Guess what, The President of the United States has just issued a pardon to them. They get to go free. Sorry, you shouldn't have What you should have done is not done your job. You should have just walked away, let them in and do whatever they want to do, because it was meaningless that you tried to provide security for people.

9:51 It was meaningless that you tried to uphold the law because the law doesn't matter. How would you feel? Well, yesterday, a specific police officer had to deal with that very reality. Let me read exactly what he's or the reaction and what exactly took place. A former police officer no longer A police officer who lost consciousness suffered a heart attack after a rioter shocked him with a stun gun appeared stunned to learn from an Associated Press reporter that those who assaulted police officers are among the pardon recipients. Now who gave the pardon? Donald Trump pardoned rioters who attacked this police officer. He lost consciousness, he suffered a heart attack after being shocked with a stun gun, and he was shocked when he found out. Wait, the people who attacked me were pardoned. He stated, this is what the American people voted for. How do you react to something like that? Now, if you don't know what I'm referring to, President Trump issued a sweeping pardon of one thousand, five

11:21 hundred people, including rioters who attacked police. These one thousand and five hundred people who were pardon were part of the January sixth riot attack upon the Capitol. What words would make you feel better? And here's a picture of him holding up I guess the pardon. President Donald Trump on Monday pardon or commuted the prison sentences of all one thousand, five hundred plus people charged with crimes in the January of the sixth, twenty twenty one US Capitol riot, including people convicted of seditious conspiracy and assaulting police officers, using his clemency power on his first day back in office to undo the massive prosecution of the unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy. Trump's actions, just hours after he returned to the White House, paves the way for the release from prison of dozens of people found guilty of violent attacks on police, as well as leaders as of far right extremist groups convicted of a felt plot to keep the Republican power after he lost the twenty twenty election to the former President Joe Biden. Now I could go through and read this entire article, but as soon as I saw this article, among many others, my daughter was sending me a lot of them. She

12:53 was like, this is insane. Look, I'm just gonna be honest with you. There was an anger that rose up in me that I don't even have words for. So basically what we're saying is, hey, hey, guys, if your person loses an election, just go try to attack the people who's going to certify the vote because it's a free for all. As long as your side wins the election, then you'll get pardon. That's the way we want to do things. That's what we call justice, that's what we call what is right in this country. Now, look, I'm all for Satanist, atheist, agnostics, anybody of any other religion justifying you saying, hey, it's about winning, it's about maintaining power.

13:41 Who cares about morality, who cares about right and wrong? You know what? That's I'm all for you doing that and thinking that way, because that would be consistent with possibly your worldview. But when it comes to Christians. When it comes to the church, what happened on January six should have been majorly upsetting to Christians. But I listened to Christian radio excuse it, come up with conspiracy theories to explain it away. Claim that the people who were arrested I went to jail were being persecuted somehow for their faith. Well, I don't even know what that even means. But I've sat back and I've been quiet about it because I don't like getting involved in it because as soon as I talk about it, it turns into this weird where Christians will argue with me, and all you see is that they are defending their god, Donald Trump.

14:35 All they see is that they defend their God the Republican Party. And it makes me just sick of being anywhere part of any Christianity that has become so politically hijacked. I don't even want to talk to Christians about it because almost inevitably they're on the side of the January sixth rioters, or they'll say, well, I think they were just misunderstood. Will I just think that they're going overboard? Tell the police officer. So now there's a little bit of my emotion. I wanted to get my emotions a little bit out of the way. Now, let's try to discuss this in a rational way and a biblical and philological way, all right now, to summarize, On January the twentieth, twenty twenty five, President Donald Trump issued pardons to over one thousand, five hundred individuals charged in connection with the January sixth, twenty twenty one, capital attack, including those convicted of assaulting law enforcement officers. This action has significant implications for law, order and just Let's start with the legal authority and the precedent here. Now, the US Constitution does

16:08 grant the president the power to issue pardons for federal offenses. Historically, presidents have exercised this authority to correct judicial error or to show mercy. However, mass pardons, especially for individuals involved in actions against democratic institutions, are unprecedented. Legal experts express concern that such broad use of clemency could undermine the judiciary's role and the principle of accountability. You think it could undermine it? Absolutely? And what are the impacts on law and order? Well, the pardons effectively nullify the legal consequences for those involved in the capital attack, which resulted in injuries to over one hundred and forty police officers and significant property damage. But hey, who cares if you're a police officer and attack We don't care. Oh, we support our law enforcement. Well, unless we need to attack you so that we can try to get into the Capitol building to stop the peaceful transfer of power because our president didn't win and we're mad, so we're gonna act like children. We're gonna act like absolute criminals. But we support law enforcement. Oh, you support law enforcement until you don't support law enforcement. You're pro law enforcement until you're not pro law enforcement. And don't get me. Well, what about this and what about this? Pointing to bad behavior to justify bad behavior is a logical fallacy. Law

17:46 enforcements warned that this could embolden future on lawfullections. You think so, I think it should. I think it could. I mean it should, just logically, as the lack of consequences may diminish the detriffect of legal penalties. US Attorney Matthew Graves emphasized that while pardons remove legal penalties, they cannot erase the established facts and accountability determined through judicial process. Well, it may not erase the facts. But I don't know if you realize this. Everyone from Christian radio to pastors have been erasing the facts about January sixth, starting at about January the seventh, And again, I want to make it very clear, I'm more concerned with this about how it impacted Christianity. Those outside of Christianity go for, yeah, burn down the capitol, kill whoever we want. I don't.

18:40 You don't have any Christian rules or morality to govern what you do. Oh, oh God, that's all fine. But for Christians we're like, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, we need to look at this from it the logical perspective, from a biblical perspective, and it's amazing. Christians want want the government now to pass law saying you can't do this, or you can't do that, or we want to end this, and we don't want homosexual marriage, and we don't want this, and we don't want this taught in school, and we want these books banned. So we want to pass laws that other people have to obey. Oh, we want to end abortion. Why should anyone obey any law if you're going to support people trying to break into the capitol to stop the peaceful transfer of power. If you don't want to support those laws, then why are you passing other laws for other people to keep. How about we just get rid of all laws and it just be complete anarchy. How about that? Can imagine what Christians would be saying of a mob of people try to break into your church and try to stop things. You'd be screaming, this is persecution, This is not right. The implications for justice.

19:59 Justice is in the fair application of laws and holding the individuals accountable for their actions. By pardoning individuals convicted of serious offenses, including seditious conspiracy, the pardons may be perceived as undermining the justice system's efforts to address the events of January six. Critics argue that this sets a concerning precedent where political considerations override judicial outcomes, potentially eroding public trust and the impartiality of the justice system. While the presidential pardon is a legitimate tool, its application in this context raises complex questions about the balance between executive authority, the principle of law and order, and justice. The long term effects of these pardons on the rule of law and public confidence in the justice system remain to be seen.

20:49 Now what If we look at this, that's kind of looking at from law, justice order, that's kind of looking at more from a societal perspective. How about from a philological perspective. Now, if we look at this pardon pardons of you know, over almost sixteen hundred people. If we look at this from a theological perspective, this would this would involve us evaluating principles like justice, mercy, and accountability. So let's consider this first Biblical principles on justice and authority. What about God's view on justice? The Bible consistently emphasizes justice as a central as central to God's character. For example, Isaiah six eighteen, For I the Lord love justice, I hate robbery and wrongdoing. Justice requires that wrongdoing be appropriately addressed and not ignored or dismissed. The concept of justice includes accountability for actions. Whomever sheds the blood of man by man, shall his blood be shed for God made man and his image. This reflects God's desire for proportional consequences. Right, that's genusis nine. So I think we can say God has a strong view of justice. Right, and the Bible cries out when there's injustice or people in the Bible cry out when there's injustice. We'll look at a lot of scripture, but you get the idea. I think we can say the Bible seems to be a book that would uphold the idea of justice. Well, rioting and breaking

22:23 into the Capitol building and doing all the things that were done. I think you can argue injustice. Now, listen, if you can go through the sixteen hundred people, right, and you can say, well, what about this person? And I got no problem say well, maybe that person, Okay, did they deserve to go to jail for what they did? Okay, what about this person? But when you just do a blanket pardon even for people who are guilty for violent assault upon police officers, come on, I think even though I would hope anyone who's a Christian who's also like Trump Trump, Trump Trump would be like, well, okay, maybe that's a little too far. Come on, can we at least agree on that. How about accountability and responsibility Romans thirteen one through four. I know it used to teach this.

23:11 It used to teach that governing authorities are established by God. You remember a long time ago when people used to believe that. I know, it seems like a hundred years ago. But there used to be a time that Christians believed that. Romans thirteen one through four taught that governing authorities were established by God and they were there to punish wrongdoing and to maintain order. This implies that leaders have a divine responsibility to uphold justice, not to subvert it for personal or political gain. Now someone's going to be like, but what about but what about? But you can do the what about ism at some other time. For now, can we address this issue? The government has a responsibility here not to pardon those who attack people trying to protect And what about the rioters themselves? How about justice and partiality? Scripture warns against partiality and administering justice. You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great. But in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor Leviticus nineteen fifteen.

24:24 Pardons must show must not show favoritism or undermine justice for political reasons. You can't do that. Now, that's looking at everything from the eye for the perspective of justice and authority. How about we look at it from mercy, and does mercy have limits? Well, mercy is a key biblical value. I think we can agree with that. Matthew five seven blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. But does mercy negate justice or does it work alongside it? Now this can get complicated, right because on one hand, I'm all for showing mercy. We should show mercy in every situation. But is't it amazing how Christians will be like, well, in this case, we show mercy. In this case, no mercy. Now, typically we would say those you know, it would be one thing if you've got those who participated in the January the sixth riot who are like, man, I don't know what I was thinking. I was wrong. I renounced what I did. It was I am never going to do anything like that again. And you and you see sincerity, and they really they really don't. They're gonna move away from this crazy radical political ideology that would cause them to engage in that. Then show mercy. I'm all four pardons there. But if they show no mercy and they're like I would do it again tomorrow, Trump Trump, Trump,

25:54 then okay, then you know what, maybe not there's there's gonna be something. Pardons typically can reflect mercy when applied to those who repent or show genuine contrition. However, indiscriminate pardons without regard for repentance may not reflect biblical mercy. It may actually be a distortion of it. How about the dangers of injustice Micah six ' eight cause believers to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God. Pardons that appear to ignore justice could perpetuate a culture of lawlessness and rebellion. Isaiah five twenty warns against calling evil good and good evil. Actions that absolve individuals from accountability for serious offenses, particularly those involving violence and harm, risk falling into this category. Do justice, but love mercy, walk humbly with God. I mean, those are specific things that we should be trying to uphold here and looking at this, Christians are called to model God's justice and God's mercy. Pardons that bypass justice challenge the church to speak prophetically against actions that undermine truth and righteousness. Is the church going to stand up and say wait, wait, wait,

27:26 this may not be right, but no, no, no, no, no, no no no no. See we would do that if it was Biden. But if it's Trump, oh no, He's basically God from a biblical and philological perspective. Mass pardons, particularly for those involved in acts of violence or rebellion, risks undermining justice and accountability essential biblical principles. While mercy is vital, it must not come at the expense of justice or appear to condone sin. Believers are called to uphold both justice and mercy in a way that reflects God's character and challenging actions that compromise these values. Just going through some more, I'm just going to go through a list of scriptures here Micah six 's eight. He has told you, oh man, what is good and what does the Lord require of you? But to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your goide.

28:40 This verse highlights God's expectation for justice, kindness, and humility. It definitely serves as a framework for discussing the balance of personal and societal responsibility for justice. How about Isaiah one point seventeen, Learn to do good, seek justice, correct oppression, bring justice to the fatherless, and plead the wido's cause. This verse is a direct call to action, showing that justice involves active efforts to correct wrongs and protect the vulnerable. Now, of course, in Isaiah one ' seventeen has specific historical contexts to Israel at that time. But we still need to learn to do good and seek justice and correct oppression. Should we not? Should we not be bothered by these types of things? Amos five twenty four. Let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever flowing stream.

29:30 Should we not long for some type of unstoppable justice, some kind of abundant justice we looked at Psalm eighty two. Give justice to the week and the fatherless, maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute, Rescue the weak and the needy, deliver them from the hand of the wicked. The scriptures are filled with this Proverbs twenty one to fifteen. When justice is done, it as a joy to the righteous, but terror to evildoers Ecclesiastes, chapter three, verse sixteen. Moreover, I saw under the sun that in the place of justice even there was wickedness, and in the place of righteousness even there was wickedness. I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, For there is a time for every matter and for every work.

30:28 The scriptures are filled with this call for justice or crying out when there's injustice, and here we are. We wake up and well, hey, I'm now the president. So I'm going to pardon all these people who are involved in a riot and an attack upon the capitol, an attack upon an institution working for the peaceful transfer of power. Now, if you want to pardon that, you want to justify that, then okay, then then we just be uh, you know what, then let's just throw out basically any law. Let's not go after anyone for anything. I don't have words for for it, the whole situation, just even just talking about it, I'm exhausted. I'm just exhausted over it. And I know, I know we're just getting started. We got four more years in front of us now of Christians running around defending it, defending everything Trump says, everything Trump does, it's gonna be viewed as basically coming from the throne room of God. And I know we're gonna have to go through it again. And you can't say anything because the people who are Trump supporters, You say anything like no, that's not true, No that's not true. Trump's never done anything wrong in his entire life. He's basically God. How dare you criticize him? And you say well, that's that

31:58 sounds like a little bit of an exact. Not much for many Christians, as much as they would deny it all day. But I think they've traded in the cross for a red hat. Not in all cases, but in many, and many say no, no, they say no, and then they turn around and defend and defend and any criticism like that's not fair, that's not well, that's just misunderstood, and they make every excuse under the sun. We pardon people who broke into the Capitol, but we want to make sure we don't pardon anyone who breaks in across the border. Across the border, we want you gone build the wall, get rid of them. But if you break into the capitol, hey, that's okay. I don't know. I just I don't know where we go from here. I I you know, you know where we go from here.

33:25 This is this is what is going to happen. There's going to be the Christians who support Trump and everything. They're going to excuse everything, and their Christianity is going to become more and more politically driven. Their Christianity is going to become more influenced by political ideology. There's they're gonna become more. They're gonna Christian nationalism is going to grow, and we're going to see that whole movement move They're going to try to institute laws and tell everyone how to behave and you can't do this, and you can't watch this, and you can't read this, and you know no, no, no, no, no no, and you can't do this because we want to impose our morality on everyone else. So we're going to see a rise of that. We're going to see a more politically embolden and more politically energized church. You're gonna see a kind of a Christian nationalist mindset. It's going to explode over the next four years and they'll have their day and we'll see what they do with it.

34:22 Right that, we'll see what we do For those who don't want a politically hijacked Christianity, you may not. You may have a hard time. I don't know. You may look at your church and go what in the world is going on? And you may have to go somewhere else. That's I know, I think that's a very fair thing to say. Right and you and there's going to become division amongst Christians. You're gonna have those Christians used to be like, just never mind, just don't talk to me because it's political politics, politicists Trump Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump Trump, Fox News, fox News, fox News, and it's just like, okay, never mind, they're in a different world. I don't know. So that's we're gonna see this. Now, how do we respect on to it. Well, on one hand, you can dedicate twenty four hours a day, seven days a week to trying to call out all the misinformation, the disinformation, trying to call this out and correct it.

35:09 And to me, that plays right into the hand of it, right, because then what you would have is you would have the politically hijacked Christianity, right, and so it basically destroying pure Christianity because it becomes something else. So you'll have that, and then you'll have those trying to fight it, So you'll have a Christianity dedicated to fighting the politically hijacked Christianity. But if you dedicate all of your time trying to fight the politically hijacked Christianity, in a sense, you've become politically hijacked as well. So really then there's no Christianity either place. I think my approach is going to be. When I need to, I may address something, but for the most part, I'm just going to put my head down and move forward. And we're going to talk about scripture and hermeneutics and Bible interpretation and review sermons, and we're just gonna go that direction. We're going to try to continue to I'm gonna be more. I'm going to be more concerned with the hermeneutical issues inside the church, how they can't handle Isaiah chapter forty forty one, forty two, forty three. I guess Isaiah forty three fifty five is impossible to handle. We're gonna talk about those kinds of things.

36:19 We're going to try to stay focused and not get caught up, because look, I could go through every little issue that's going to happen over the next four years, and you could spend your life just trying to respond to it and respond to it. And where does that put people. Either you're going to be You're gonna go listen to the Christianity that's politically hijacked, or you gotta listen to the Christianity trying to fight the politically hijacked Christianity, and that leaves you nowhere. So I'm not going to try to fall for either. Now, there's times I got to address this because this whole issue about these partons go right directly to the Bible and Biblical justice. Now, let me make it very clear. I believe the essence of the Gospel is mercy for those who don't deserve it.

37:02 So from a philological perspective, I want mercy, Yes, I want forgiveness. Right. I like people to be forgiven. I like people to be restored. I like it because that's what the Gospel is about. And like I said, in many of these cases, I'm all for issuing individual pardons to specific individuals, but at the same time, from a legal perspective. From a legal perspective, it's think of it this way. If someone is found if someone is in a church and they're found guilty of some kind of sexual assault, right, Yes, there's mercy and forgiveness in Christ, but there has to be legal accountability for their crime. That's a crime, right, that's a crime. Well, attacking the Capitol building and attacking police officers, that's a crime. So there may be mercy and forgiveness and Christ and that should be preached and given to those individuals, but there's a crime that has to be committed, right, I'm all for forgiveness and mercy, but when a crime, we have to maintain some level of justice that crimes require punishment. Now, I'm not even in some of those sixteen hundred. You'd have to look at a case by case and go, well, what about this, and what about that? And what about this?

38:33 That was a horrible day. I'll never forget that day as long as I live, I'll never forget it. I remember standing in the living room watching Trump's speech on that day, saying, we gotta fight, we gotta fight. And I won't use the word that he used, we gotta fight. And it's like and I'm like fight, how how what do you mean fight? You lost the election. It's over. What are you talking about? There's nothing to fight. You lost the all election. Send all of your followers home and accept the peaceful transfer of power because that's what we do here in America, and accept it and stop acting like a defiant child. But no fight. And while his followers fought, And what did I hear, Christians? Oh, the election was stolen. The election was stolen. The election was stolen. After all the lawsuits, after everything no evidence found that would change the result of that election. Election.

39:40 Workers were lied about, and their lives were they were put in danger, and they were threats on their lives because of Christian many cases, Christians spreading lies. Christian radio spread so many lies about that it was insane. Now at the time I was addressing all of it, but I'll never forget. When I heard the speech, I'm like, what does he want these people to do? And then I left went to the church because I was going to broadcast them. By the time I got to the church, chaos was unfolding and I could not believe what was happening. I could not believe what I was witnessing. And what was most troubling again was turning on Christian radio and hearing basically every excuse in the world. Because Christianity no longer can see things from a biblical perspective. We can only see it through the lens of our political ideology.

40:37 And Christianity should not have a political ideology. We are not behold and we should not be politics. We're not involved, we're not even of this world. We're not even citizens here. From a philological perspective, our citizenship is in heaven. So whatever you think about the pardons, here's what I will I'll just end with this. Over the next four years, this is what my predictions are. Christianity, Christian nationalism is gonna become more influential throughout churches all over the place.

41:19 They won't call it Christian nationalism, but they're going to be nationalistic political and it's going to infiltrate churches everywhere you watch. It's gonna be everywhere church political ideology and Christianity is just going to be all over the place, and it's gonna be crazy, and you're going to find yourself looking around on what happened to my church. It's going to become more and more political ideology, I guarantee you. And then they're on the other side. There's going to be those who are going to be like, well that we got to fight against this, we gotta fight against this, and all they're going to do is fight against it and fight against it. And somewhere in the middle of all of that are gonna be people are like, I don't want the political ideology and I don't want to just necessarily listen to people constantly fighting the political ideology. Where is Christianity and it's gonna be for a large part gone. Now how I handle it. I'm not gonna say I'm gonna handle it perfectly because I'm not. I'm a sinner, Okay, I'm I'm gonna get frustrated at times.

42:10 I'm gonna irritated. Maybe times, I'm gonna be talking about things more than I should. I know, But I've always said this podcast is just a center with a microphone trying to figure out Christianity. That's all I am. That's all I'm going to be. I'm still just going to be a center with a microphone trying to figure all of this out and expressing my own frustrations and my own irritations with some of this. But I am going to try to maintain Hey, okay, we're today, We're gonna be looking at this, and we're gonna be looking at this, and we're gonna just try now some people. Now, for my own personal gain, if I go full blown fighting the political then then of course then my all my podcasts would be controversial. They would I could I could probably increase downloads and streams, and I could probably become right there in the midst of the fight, and you could be a part of the whole discussion. Well, I don't.

43:01 I have no desire for that because fighting things politically you can't get anywhere, right. I mean, when you listen to Christians argue about January sixth, you listen to their arguments, none of their arguments are biblical or theilological. It's just nonsensical political, blind ideology or crazy conspiracy theories. Sound like they've been hanging out with q I mean, that's like, I mean, qan On is what I'm referencing that it's going to be like that Alex Jones is their pastor, and it's like, oh no, forget that. I'm not gonna even not even going to engage in that nonsense. So there's fighting. It to me is like meaningless, meaningless. There's got to be a place where we can be like, hey, guys, let's let's get right back here. How do we handle this text? Oh, we got Isaiah forty in front of us, are how do we handle this? Hey? What about a artificial intelligence and theology? Like, let's we're gonna We're gonna, I'm gonna try my best. I can't promise you anything, right, I mean, we're already we're see We're January the twenty first, and you know what, yesterday President Trump becomes you know, president.

44:13 So we're less than twenty four hours into it, and I'm already addressing it. See that's not a good start. But I'm addressing it not on the basis of politics, Right, it's not about politics. Let me make it very clear. If Joe Biden was to pardon people engaged in the very same act, but in the opposite direction, right, he was screaming that the election was stolen and a bunch of liberals and Democrats tried to storm the capitol, how would you be just as upset, and we could talk about all the people that we can talk about, the entire pardon system, presidents having the ability to pardon people, and one thing, it's a great thing. It shows mercy, it shows giving people a second chance. At the same time, well, let me make it very clear, because somebody gonna say, well, not every one of those sixteen hundred people deserve to go to prison. You may be right, and you could say, well, maybe some in the judicial system, this was a political witch hunt. Maybe you're right. I'm not willing. I'm not going to deny any and in any particular case where you show me the name of the individual, show me exactly what they were found guilty of and what they were charged for, then I'd be more than willing to go Yeah, that person probably shouldn't have went to prison or jail. I can see what you're saying there. Okay, let's go to the next one. We could go through all sixteen hundred if you so desire. Most people aren't really willing to do that. They just try to find one or two and then try to excuse the whole sixteen hundred, which is illogical and irrational as well. I

45:45 love the idea of a part and I love the idea of mercy. I love the idea of a second chance. I love the idea of redemption. I love that idea because I'm in need of it every single day. But I'm not in favor of of pardoning people who violently attacks police officers who are trying to storm the Capitol building to stop the peaceful transfer of power. That is unacceptable, That goes against everything America should be about. Democracy, representative republic.

46:25 How well, however, you would like to describe all the elements of our governmental system, The idea of voting and then a peaceful transfer of power. We have to at least maintain that. You want some level of stability and law and order and justice so that we can all pursue happiness and live lives. Right, we all want that right. I want that for anyone. I want that for everyone. I want everyone to be able to pursue their life. I want people to have freedom. I want people to be as safe as they can be. I like the idea of people having that for everyone. The people I agree or disagree with. We just can't break down in lawlessness and then pardon it because because well you know, they were trying to defend me, they were trying to keep me in power. Well, you didn't deserve to be empowered because you lost the election. And guess what he won this election. All right, Great, now Trump supporters rejoice.

47:21 You're all happy. Now you got you what you wanted. Great, But at the same time, this is wrong. All right, My therapy session is over. Thank you. I will send you one hundred dollars for this hour of therapy. Thank you for letting me lay down on your couch and express my frustration and my disbelief. My daughter, I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm like, we knew it was coming, we knew this was going to happen, So yeah, she was greatly bothered by it. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. This is the way it is. But you know, it's the confusing part again, it's the church, the Christians response to it. I'm not shocked at all by non Christians response to it whatever, But Christians, we're supposed to justice, justice, mercy, righteousness, obey the law right, not try to overthrow the government doing its job. I got no problem a peaceful protest surround the capital, being wherever applying for the permit, protesting, yelling and screaming that the election was stolen. We want an investigation, but you don't storm the capital that. I think we

48:54 can all agree a peaceful protest. All we're okay with all right. I'most stop there so that I can move on with my day. Thanks for listening for all those I know all the Trump supporters are going to be mad and you're going to try to send me your thirty seven justifications for why they were persecuted. I mean you can do so. It is better for you just to, you know, go find a more Trump friendly podcast. It maybe, and that's perfectly okay. I'm going to move forward, and I'm not going to be Trump friendly or Trump unfriendly. I'm just going to move forward and try to find a way that somewhere Christianity can exist and this politically hijacked nonsense can go away, all right, Thanks for listening.

49:42 God bless