March 29, 2025

The Theology of Bodyoids

The Theology of Bodyoids

A discussion about the ethics and theology of bodyoids

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A discussion about the ethics and theology of bodyoids

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone.

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It is Saturday, March the twenty ninth, twenty twenty five.

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It is currently six twenty nine pm Central Time, and

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I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio

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located right here in Abilene, Texas. And I know what

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you're probably thinking. You just said good afternoon, and then

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you told me it's six twenty nine pm Central time,

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and you're absolutely right. I called it good afternoon. You

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know why, because it feels like it's four in the afternoon,

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and I didn't realize the time until I said it.

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And then I'm like, I should have said good evening,

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So let me let me just do it again. Good

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evening everyone. It is Saturday, March the twenty ninth, twenty

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twenty five. It is currently six twenty nine pm Central Time,

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and I'm still coming to you live. It's still coming

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to you from the Theology Central studio located right here

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in Abilene, Texas. Now, it was such a peaceful, calm

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moment in time. I was sitting here listening to the

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Angels play the White Sox, listening to baseball, because if

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there's any sport that's made to listen to, I think

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baseball was made for radio. Right now, I wasn't listening

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to it on radio, was listening to it through the

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MLB APP. And then I think, well, no, yeah, that

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game I was listening to through the MLB APP. Sometimes

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I listen to baseball through the Serious XM app. But

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I was listening to baseball. It's peaceful. There's just something

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calming about it. It's relaxing. Just sit back listening to

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a baseball game. It's perfect, right. It just I know

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it sounds very like antiquated, but maybe maybe it feels nostalgic,

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but listening to baseball on radio or in our case,

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an app, it just it feels right. Everything feels right

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in the world. The world may be on fire, but

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listening to baseball, everything feels right. So everything was calm, good,

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maybe kind of a little feeling of the past. But

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all of a sudden I was interrupted with the present

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because I received a news notification and I just sat

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there going, wait, what what What if I were to

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tell you that scientists are right now proposing the creation

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of lab grown human bodies, bodies without brains, bodies without consciousness,

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bodies supposedly without a soul, and they're going to grow

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these bodies for the purpose of organ harvesting, medical research,

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and yes, even meet consumption. What if I was to

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tell you, would you be like I think, maybe you

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were listening to the baseball game. You had a seizure,

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and now you've woken up, and you had you had

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some kind of crazy dream after you had a seizure.

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It wasn't a dream. Now, I was listening to the

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baseball game and then was interrupted with this news article

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that's telling me that scientists are now proposing the creation

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of lab grown human bodies, bodies without brains, without consciousness,

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without a soul, for the purpose of organ harvesting, medical research,

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and yes, even meat consumption. These entities are called body OIDs,

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body OIDs, b O, d y i DS, body OIDs.

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And while they may lack sentence, you know, maybe they're

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not sentiment. Maybe they are not they lack sentience. Maybe

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they bear an unsettling resemblance to human life. Maybe maybe

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they lack sentience. Maybe maybe they like that, but they

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bear an unsettling resemblance to human life. Maybe they lack

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Do we say consciousness, do we maybe they lack a soul.

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Maybe we I mean, I'm trying to find the right words, right,

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I mean a sentience. The right word I don't know

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is consciousness. The right word is soul, the right they

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obviously are supposedly lacking these things. But well, that looks

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like a human body. So what we're going to attempt

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to do today is we're going to kind of dive

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into this mind bending development. I'm going to try to

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explore what bodyoids are. We're going to try to define them,

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how scientists believe they could change the future of medicine

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and even meet and why this proposal is stirring up

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a store of ethical and thiological questions. Is this the

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new frontier in biotechnology or a dangerous step towards commodifying

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the human body, just turning the human body into a

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commodity that you can sell. You just mass produce human

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bodies and then you sell them for things. We need

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meat organs for people to do medical research on. What

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does this mean for how we understand personhood? What does

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this mean and how we understand dignity? And what does

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this mean about understanding the image of God? They say,

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I don't believe this is a scientific conversation. There is

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a scientific aspect to it. So let me make this clear.

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There is a scientific aspect to this. There is a

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medical aspect to this. But obviously this podcast is called

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Theology Central, So I'm going to look at it more

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from maybe a more aspect, maybe I think most importantly

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a philological aspect, and I think it's a conversation we

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need to have because typically Christians are way behind. Now,

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if I go way, way, way, way, way way back

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into my archives, I've talked about the discussion of this

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happening right now a lot of people when they first

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started talking about this, sometimes you would hear this more

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on the like what would be kind of labeled the

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conspiracy programs Coast to Coast AM or or maybe some

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Bible prophecy program that kind of trafficed at least to

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some level, and conspiracy theories, and they would talk about

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some of this and you would just kind of say,

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this is crazy. But even sometimes on those programs they

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would stumble upon things that are accurate or true or

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be maybe ahead of everyone else, and that sometimes then

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gives it a sense of well, I gotta believe everything. No,

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you always have to question everything. But sometimes you've got

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to give them, you know, programs like that, credit for

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really being first on some ideas that people may think

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are bizarre or crazy and then come to find out

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they're not so bizarre or crazy. And this is one

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that I think there was some warnings about, but I

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think for the most part, we kind of all just

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moved on with our life looking at the next thing

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going on. But this now raises some questions. And for

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the Church at large, what typically happens is we are reactive,

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We're not proactive. We react. We need to be proactive.

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We need to be proactive, but typically Christians wait until

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after the fact and then we have to then respond.

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We should be the first ones discussing this. So we're

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going to try to unpack, at least to some level,

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the science. I'm not going to say I'm going to

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get all of that right. I'm gonna I think I

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will do pretty good trying to analyze the implications. I'm

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going to try to analyze the philological consequences. I think

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I can do a pretty good job there of what

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I guess some may call the body oid revolution the

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body oid revolution. I mean, it's just a strange word.

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The body OIDs. The theology of bodyoids. Okay, what like,

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what does that even mean? So let's begin with the

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news notification that I received. This is the this is

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what I saw in my notification feed over my dead body,

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And I was like, WHOA, what is going on over

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my dead body? So when I kind of expanded the notification,

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it said, over my dead body, spare human bodies grown

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and artificial wombs in lab as. Scientists insist body ooids

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feel no pain and can serve as meat. And I

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just kind of sat there, going, I'm trying to listen

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to a baseball game that's actually just actually it was

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kind of not much, not very exciting in some ways.

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I guess if you if well, okay, we won't talk

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about the base but I'm like, what it so over

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my dead body? I mean, it's a mouthful. Here, spare

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human bodies grown in artificial wombs and lab as scientists

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insist body OIDs feel no pain and can serve as meat.

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So then when I click on it, it takes me

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to a news article, and then the kind of underneath

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that headline is the researchers insisted on moving forward with

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this revolutionary plan. Then the first paragraph Underneath that kind

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of headline and subheadline was cutting edge. Scientists have unveiled

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a disturbing plan to grow soulless, spare human bodies that

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can be used for medical experiments and even meat. The

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so called bodyoids would be grown in artificial wombs and

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have the eerie ability to withstand endless pain. All sounds

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crazy now again, I'm gonna make it very clear. This

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is nothing new. This has been discussed and numerous even

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I've talked about it on this podcast a long, long,

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long long time ago, and maybe even before this podcast

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and other broadcast that I've done, because I've heard about

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it and heard about it and always thought, and I

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think I always framed it, what if what if this

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was to occur? We need to start thinking about it now,

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because the time's going, it's going to show up and

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we're not We're going to have to figure out how

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do we understand it from a theological perspective. So I've

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been asking for people to think about it for a

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long time. I'm not saying that this one news article

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indicates that were you know, almost out there, but I

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do know this. If you'll go to Google and type

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in body OIDs b O D Y O, I D

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S body oid. Well, you just look at all the articles.

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So there is a lot of discussion going on today

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about this, So let's kind of start with a definition, right,

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Let's start with defining bodyoids. Body ooids is a proposed

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term for lab grown non sentient human bodies that are

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cultivated from stem cells and artificial wombs. Right now, I

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think I was trying to say sentient earlier, right, I

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was trying to come up with a word. Do they

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lack sentients? Are they not sentient? Do I go with

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that word? Do I go with consciousness? Do I go

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with soul? Like I was trying to come up with

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the word. Here in the actual definition for body ooids,

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they use the word sentient, right, a proposed term for

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lab grown, non sentient human bodies that are cultivated from

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stem cells and artificial wombs. Now, if we look at

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let's do something here, because this I'm already going to

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jump to the theology here, maybe already jumping to the theology.

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I probably shouldn't already jump to the theology. But I'm

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going to do something here. If we look up the definition, right,

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if we look up the definition for sentient, oh, sentient.

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I'm calling it sentient sentient. I'm saying it in correct anyway,

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Sentient I apologize there, okay, the ability to perceive or

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feel things, right, I was doing sentient sentient? All right?

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You see here we go. Let me make sure here sentient,

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sentient or sentient? Right? Hang on, sentient sentient? Well, what's

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the correct way sentient sentient sentient? I don't know anymore?

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All right? Who knows? Okay, So it's capable of sensing

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or feeling conscious of a responsive to the sensation of seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting,

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or smelling. Right, So sentient will go as sentient or

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can we go as sentient? Can we go as sentient?

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That's the way I was saying it, all right? So

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am I right? Or am I wrong? I don't know,

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that's all Miriam Webster gives two different ways of saying it.

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All right, So sentient, I'm gonna go with sentient. Maybe

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that's my West Texas coming through. So I gotta think

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this through though, right. So if sentient, I'm gonna go

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with that capable of sensing or feeling, conscious of or

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responsive to the sensations. Now there's the consciousness there, right,

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Because just because something could sense or feel, or just

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because something would have the sensation of seeing, hearing, feeling,

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tasting or smelling. If someone, if something is just has

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those feelings. They can feel, they can hear, they can see.

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Does does that make it? In other words, I get,

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does that make it? Like does it have a soul? Well,

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what we don't think. We don't believe animals have a soul,

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right because but they can, they feel, they hear, they sense,

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so that would that's not quite getting us too. Well,

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that's a person with a soul. But if they are

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sentient or sentient, however you would like to pronounce this

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word is is it alive? You can have life, but

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does that have a soul? Now? See, now I'm getting

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into a very philosophical philological discussion. So let's go back

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to this definition of bodyoids. All right. Body ooids is

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a proposed term for a lab grown non sentient or

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sentient human bodies. I'm going with sentient ladies and gentlemen,

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non sentient human bodies. So they're human bodies, but they

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don't have any ability to feel. Maybe I'm assuming they

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can't hear, they can't see. They're cultivated from stem cells

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and artificial wombs. These entities are intentionally engineered to lack consciousness,

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no brain function, or the ability to feel pain, and

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are developed for purposes such as medical research, organ harvesting,

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and potentially even ethical meat production. So what are the

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key characteristics of a body ooid, non sentient, or sentient

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designed without brains or nervous systems to avoid consciousness or pain?

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Now here's the question, right, So I'm just a question.

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If something doesn't have a brain, doesn't have a nervous system,

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does that mean it has a soul? But if it's

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created in a lab, then does that remove then even

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the ability? But then, oh, this gets into all kinds

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of reproductive things when people are seeking help for reproduction. Right,

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Like where is this gets into a lot of ethical questions? Right?

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How are they designed? Okay? Well are they are? They

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are cultivated from stem cells and artificial wounds. But okay,

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but they're not sentient. They're design without brain cells, brains,

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I'm sorry, without brains or nervous systems to avoid consciousness

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or pain. They're grown artificially, created using stem cells and

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developed in artificial wombs. That's been repeated now numerous Timeslitary

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a utilitarian purpose and tended to serve as biological resources

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for organs or tissue, not as living persons. So they

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are used as a utility a utilitarian purpose. They're just

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to serve as a biological resource a right, They're not

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to be seen as a living person. Now, if we

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break the words down, body refers to the physical form

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or structure oid, meaning resembling or like, often used for

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artificial or imitation versions of something android humanoid. This is

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a body oid. It's not an android, it's not a humanoid.

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It's just a body. It's just a body developed for

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utilitarian purpose. So bodyoids means body like entity, human in form,

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but not in mind or your soul. That's what a

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body oid is, all right, Okay, hmm, that's now. Well, okay,

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I'm already wanting to say I want to just immediately

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jump to the philosophy into the theology, that's why. But

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I got to try to I gotta pace myself and

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try to get through all of these other details. So

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let's go to the news article, right, and what I

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did I kind of summer I have a summary of

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the news article. I did use artificial intelligence to help

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me hear artificial intelligence Intelligence gave me the definition of

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body oid. It gave me the definition of body oid,

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and then I asked it to break down the article.

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Instead of reading through the article, I said, summarize it

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for me. The article from the U Then the one

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I gave to artificial intelligence was from the US Sun,

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because that's the one that showed up in my notification system.

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The article from the US Sun discusses a proposal by

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three scientists to develop body OIDs lab grown nonsense sentient

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human bodies cultivated in artificial wombs. Please note, artificial wombs

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has been used over and over and over and everything

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that I keep reading to you, and nonsentient is used

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over and over and over and over and over and

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over again. All right, so those terms are used multiple times.

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And when I was stumbling around trying to do I

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use the word or not use the word, well obviously

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everyone is using the term right now. And I'm glad

279
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that I stumbled because then we looked at But the

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reason I looked it up is I was like, well,

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when I start thinking about is this alive? Does it

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have a soul? Then the idea of okay, all these

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things keep saying nonsentient or nonsentient, depending on how you

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want to say the word. And so when I looked

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it up, I'm like, okay, well that talks about feeling,

286
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that talks about seeing. Okay, but animals feel and see,

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they don't have a soul. So, because that's going to

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become a question when this if this is where we're going.

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But everything wants to everything wants to overemphasize this idea

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of they're not sentient, all right, So they're lab grown,

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non sentient human bodies cultivated in artificial wombs. These entities

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would be engineered to lack consciousness and the ability to

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feel pain, making them suitable for medical research because you

294
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could do anything to them, right, You could do any

295
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kind of medical research. You could inject it with this,

296
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do this, do that, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't

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feel any pain, making them suitable for medical research, organ transplantation,

298
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and even as a source of meat. The scientists argue

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that this approach could address ethical concerns associated with animal testing,

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right because in many cases animals are used to test things,

301
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which is kind of horrible, but that's what happens. This

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would be well, you're using a bodyoid, you can do

303
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:58.759
whatever it doesn't feel anything. It's not conscious, it's not sentient,

304
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and it could even offer meat for meat for consumption

305
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by providing alternatives that do not involve sentient beings. Animals feel,

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animals see animals here, animal sense, Well, we kill them

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for food. Well, how about if we can just create

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a body or a body ooid and then consume it

309
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.440
for meat because it doesn't feel anything. Now, the only

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00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.000
problem is it's human bodies. Like, are they talking about

311
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.039
growing like an animal bodyoid? I don't know, Like, where

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does this stop? I don't know? Now the outline of

313
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.079
the proposal, here's kind of the outline of the proposal.

314
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:49.559
Number one, creation of bodyoids, right, stem cell utilization employing

315
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.000
plory potent stem cells to grow human like bodies plury

316
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potent stem cells. I think that's the way to state

317
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that to grow human like bodies, artificial wombs developed, developing

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00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:08.200
these entities entirely outside of human body, using artificial uteruses,

319
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genetic modification, ensuring the absence of brain development to prevent

320
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consciousness and pain perception. So that's kind of the outline

321
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for the creation. You're gonna use stem cell utilization using

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pluripotent stem cells to grow human like bodies. You're gonna

323
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use artificial wombs, and then you're gonna do genetic modification

324
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to ensure that there's no brain development, and you're going

325
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to prevent the consciousness and pain perception. Alrighty, this is

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man just a lot to try to process. So then

327
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what are the potential applications medical research? Providing models for

328
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testing new drugs, potentially reducing reliance on animal testing. I

329
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guess if it's a human like body, would you even

330
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need to do any human testing after that? If the

331
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body oid can do it and it's I mean, I

332
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don't know, but you could have definitely reduce animal testing.

333
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Organ transplants serving as a source for human organ harvesting,

334
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potentially alleviating donor shortages. So you wouldd have like a

335
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:16.559
warehouse just in theory. I'm just speculating, you could have

336
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a warehouse of all these bodyoids, like we need this.

337
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Go grab the body oid and say, okay, we're gonna

338
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take this organ. We're gonna take this organ. We're gonna

339
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take this organ. We're gonna take this organ, and then

340
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you save a life. Right now? That sounds that sounds good.

341
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:40.079
Meat production offering an ethical alternative to traditional meat by

342
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producing human derived meat without causing suffering. Now, all right,

343
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no animals would suffer. But if it's human derived meat,

344
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now have we entered into some level of cannibalism and

345
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where does that play out philologically? So now let's try

346
00:24:05.079 --> 00:24:08.039
to explain this and analyze this. Let's try to dig

347
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:13.240
into this a little deeper. Here. The concept of creating

348
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what would what was being known is called bodyoids. It

349
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:22.920
does intersect with advancements in biotechnology, particularly in the realms

350
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:28.599
of stem cell research and artificial organ development. By cultivating

351
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human like bodies without consciousness, scientist aims to mitigate ethical

352
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dilemmas inherent and current practices, such as animal experimentation and

353
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organ donation shortages. The proposal suggests that bodyoids could provide

354
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:55.960
a renewable and ethically sourced supply of human tissues and organs,

355
00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:03.079
potentially revolutionizing medical treatment and re search methodologies. So so

356
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.559
let's forget the meat part. Let's just forget the meat part.

357
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:10.440
Let me just ask you, Okay, So scientists can create

358
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.240
a human body. It's non sentient, it doesn't have consciousness,

359
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.359
it cannot feel any pain, does not have a nervous system.

360
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.839
It does not have a brain. All right, we can

361
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.359
then take that body and then take all the organs

362
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.799
we want from these body ooids, all the organs we

363
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:35.440
want for transplants, possibly saving I don't know, I don't

364
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.640
have I don't I can't say how many transplants occur

365
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:41.480
each year and how long the wait list is for

366
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.319
specific organs. I know there's typically a long wait list.

367
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I don't have the exact statistics in front of me.

368
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But let's say this could save innumerable number of lives,

369
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prolong people's lives, save lives, help eliminate some suffering from

370
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:06.839
some diseases. What if it could revolutionize medical testing so

371
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.920
that animals don't suffer and maybe be able to speed

372
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:15.680
up medical research. Not just think of all the things

373
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.160
that that could possibly revolutionize medicine. Move it forward, so

374
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.720
you'd have a never ending supply of organs and a

375
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.839
never ending supply of bodies to use and testing, possibly

376
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.759
making medical advancement move quicker, all of those possible life

377
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:39.200
saving things benefits. Does that kind of eliminate in your

378
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:43.559
mind the ethical concerns, the theological concerns. Do you just

379
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:47.359
see it as a utility, a utilitarian purpose. Hey, it's

380
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.519
just a body. It's doesn't have a soul, doesn't have

381
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.440
a mind to create all the bodies you want. Do

382
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:57.400
do you have kind of a more pragmatic perspective? Look

383
00:26:57.440 --> 00:26:59.680
at the lives it can save. Now, the meat part

384
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:04.240
may raise some issues, but the other part, it's just

385
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:07.559
a utility. It's just yeah, make it and use it,

386
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:18.079
save lives. Is it crossing some line? So I asked Ai? Okay, Well,

387
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.839
what are maybe the implications? Ai says this proposition raises

388
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:28.279
profound ethical and philosophical questions the creation of human like

389
00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:33.720
entities even without consciousness. Challenges are understanding of human dignity,

390
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:39.640
identify identity, and the moral status of artificially created life forms.

391
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.960
The potential use of body aids as a meat source

392
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:48.079
further complicates the discourse, evoking deep seated taboos and ethical

393
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:55.680
considerations surrounding cannibalism and the commodification of human biology. You

394
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.960
turn the body into a commodity, but it's a fact

395
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.920
grown body. So are you are you? Are you commodifying

396
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:10.920
this is commodifying human biology. But you're commodifying lab grown

397
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:16.240
human body. But it's not a I mean, we don't

398
00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:19.279
see it as having a soul. It's not even sentient, okay,

399
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.039
using that term that was used multiple times. I'm glad

400
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:25.039
we got into that discussion because when you understand sentient, well,

401
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.079
animals are so okay, so that that would immediately prove

402
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.759
that even with that, you wouldn't you would not be

403
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.680
talking about a soul, but you would be talking about

404
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:38.039
then something that feels that That's where the ethical concern is.

405
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:42.119
So if this thing cannot feel, cannot sense, cannot even

406
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:51.160
hear or see, then okay, then are we are commodifying

407
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:54.599
human biology? But is it ethically? Does it cross an

408
00:28:54.599 --> 00:29:00.279
ethical boundary at that point? So if we look at

409
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:05.480
it from a philological particularly within say a Christian ethic worldview,

410
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:13.880
maybe the proposal to create and utilize bodyoids, maybe it

411
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:19.400
necessitates at least some possible careful examination. I think the

412
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.400
first thing most Christians would go to, and I asked

413
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.079
AI kind of how Christians would view this. Ai said

414
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:28.359
the issue of sanctity of human life would probably become

415
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:33.440
one of the first things discussed, because Ai says Christian

416
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:38.400
doctrine emphasizes the inherent dignity and sanctity of human life,

417
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.200
rooted in the belief that humans are created in the

418
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.720
image of God. Yes, humans are created in the image

419
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:52.279
of God. Humans are humans are, But what creates us,

420
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:54.519
what makes us in the image of God. It's not

421
00:29:54.799 --> 00:30:02.440
physically right, What puts us in the image of God? Consciousness? Right, spirit?

422
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:06.880
We have a spirit, We have a soul. Right, we

423
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.880
have a sense of morality? Right, and in what we're

424
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:16.799
creating the image of God. And it's not the physical form. Right,

425
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:19.839
It's not the physical form that makes us in the

426
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.599
image of God. It's our We have an eternal we

427
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:26.079
have a soul that lives forever. We have a sense

428
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.079
of morality, we have a you know, we have we

429
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.480
have consciousness, we have we think we have there there's

430
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.799
there's certain things that make us, that creates us in

431
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:37.000
the image of God. It's not just the physical form.

432
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:42.319
So if you create a physical body, but it doesn't

433
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.720
have those things that really create that really puts something

434
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.519
in the image of God. Right, it doesn't have consciousness,

435
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.599
it doesn't have an eternal soul, it doesn't have a

436
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:54.200
sense of right and wrong. Like, if it's missing some

437
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.720
of those elements, then can you say, well, a body

438
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:00.359
ooid is not creating the image of God. It's just

439
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.640
created in the form of a human body. But the

440
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:06.839
human body is not what puts us in the image

441
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:13.519
of God. Right, So does a bodyoid then become an issue?

442
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:20.319
The deliberate creation of human like entities, even without consciousness,

443
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:24.200
may be viewed as undermining this sacredness. I don't know.

444
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.599
Does it undermine the sacredness? I don't think it does,

445
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.200
because it's not the body that makes us sacred, right,

446
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.920
It's just not the physical form. Theologians might argue that

447
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:38.359
life even in a nonsentient form, say, now, even AI

448
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.079
goes back to that sentience. See, I knew that that

449
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:44.920
word I was. I was struggling to find the word

450
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.680
right then. I was afraid I was saying it incorrectly.

451
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.759
But I'm gonna I'm not gonna go sentient. I'm going sentient.

452
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.400
I'm gonna go that way. When we look that up,

453
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:58.519
I'm like, but you know again, an animal, I think,

454
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.359
by all definitions, is a SENTI being right, it feels

455
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:04.720
its senses right, it hears, it sees all right, it

456
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.759
doesn't have a soul, and are basic understanding from a

457
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:12.160
Christian it's humans that are giving a soul, right, So

458
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:20.200
even if it's in a nonsentient form. If it's not

459
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:24.880
even that, well, then could with theologians possibly argue that

460
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.279
it should not be manufactured or turned into kind of

461
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:39.279
an instrument for utilitarian purposes? So instruments, Yeah, do we

462
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:44.720
turn human bodies into instruments for for a as a utility,

463
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:47.599
as a utilitarian purpose. So I'm just trying to find

464
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:50.359
a lot of this. I'm struggling to find the words.

465
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:02.839
So if it's nonsentient, has no consciousness, has no brain,

466
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:08.319
therefore it would have no soul, it doesn't even truly

467
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:18.240
possess life, it's just the body. But yet it could

468
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.880
be utilized. I mean, it would be a commodity. It

469
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:31.440
would be utilized to save life. Preserve life. Ah, that

470
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:35.000
raises So I struggle with this here, right, because then,

471
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.359
because when you start trying to draw the lines, this

472
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:41.440
is where it always gets confusing. Right, Well, can you

473
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.279
do this? Can you do this? Well? If you can

474
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:50.079
do this, what about this? So some theologians might argue

475
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.599
that life, even a nonsentient form, should not be manufactured

476
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:59.559
or basically turned into an instrument for utilitarian purpose. Now

477
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.279
I raised moral implications of cannibalism. Now this one I

478
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.960
think it gets becomes maybe a little bit more complex, right.

479
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:10.480
The consumption of human derived meat, regardless of its origin,

480
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:16.039
confronts long standing moral prohibitions against cannibalism. Even if the

481
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.800
meat is produced without harm to sentient beings, the act

482
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:24.000
of consuming human flesh could be seen as violating natural

483
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:29.039
law and moral order, potentially desensitizing individuals to the value

484
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:33.280
of human life. Discussions within Christian ethics often emphasize the

485
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:37.199
importance of maintaining respect for the human body, both in

486
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:42.400
life and after death. Now, the consuming of these bodies

487
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.320
as meat, that is a little I'm a little disturbed

488
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:48.559
by that. I'm like, I'm not so. My question would be, okay,

489
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:54.199
if you can create a human body, a body ooid

490
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.639
that's in a let's just say body oid. It's just

491
00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:01.199
a lab grown body. Well, if you can do that

492
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.760
for humans, why can you not do that for a cow,

493
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:11.400
a chicken? Why can't you do it for that? But

494
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:13.519
it would have no it wouldn't be sentient, it would

495
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.320
have no feelings, it would not feel any pain, it

496
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:18.039
would not be aware, and then you just harvest it

497
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:22.159
for meat. To me, that would make more sense than

498
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.199
doing it with human bodies. Right that that that part

499
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.599
is weird to me, Like, where did that come from?

500
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.559
I don't think I've ever maybe in the past this

501
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:37.519
was discussed, but I always heard this disgust about organ

502
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:41.199
transplant organs and medical research and not the meat. The

503
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.039
meat part threw me off this time because I tried

504
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.840
to keep up with this to some level. So this

505
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:52.199
development caught me off guard a little bit. Hey, I said,

506
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:56.920
what about playing god? The endeavor to create bodyoids may

507
00:35:56.920 --> 00:36:00.320
be interpreted as humans attempting to consume or to assume

508
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.880
a divine role in creation. This playing god concern reflects

509
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.679
apprehension about overstepping boundaries set for humanity. But see I

510
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:12.440
struggle with this, Hey, don't play god, you can't create this.

511
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:18.679
But again you get into some really touchy subjects, right

512
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.599
again about people who maybe are infertile and then you

513
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.519
use certain techniques to hopefully help them produce a baby. Well,

514
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:30.079
how far do you go before you're kind of human

515
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:33.719
beings are involved in this process, You're you're controlling it,

516
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:37.760
you're guiding it, you're directing it. So when do we

517
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.400
cross the line. And we've already started playing god, and

518
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.239
once you get once you cross the line, in one area,

519
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:46.280
where do we just draw an arbitrary line. Go, No, okay,

520
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:48.880
we're not playing God here, we're only helping people. But

521
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:51.199
here now we're playing God. Well wait a minute, aren't

522
00:36:51.199 --> 00:37:06.440
you still helping people? So I don't know. Philological perspectives

523
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:11.599
often caution against hubrists and scientific advancement, advocating for humility

524
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.559
and reverence for the natural order established by God. Well,

525
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.480
if we go by the natural order again, how far

526
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:24.679
do you take this? Right? I mean, something happens to

527
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.159
you medically, and they hook you up and put you

528
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.760
in a medical induced coma and keep you alive through

529
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.599
the use of different you know, medical devices until they

530
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.440
can repair this or fix this? Is that playing God?

531
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:44.159
Is that going too far? You get a disease and

532
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:48.119
you're dying, but medicine can intervene and remove the disease.

533
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:53.400
Fix Is that playing God? I mean, because the natural

534
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.760
process would be You've got the disease. Now you're going

535
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.920
to die of the disease unless we as humans intervene

536
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:03.159
and play God. We stop it, we remove it, We

537
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:06.079
fix this, we fix that, we fix that. We try

538
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.039
to stop this, we try to stop that. You I mean,

539
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:11.400
all the different things we do I mean, are we

540
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.559
not already playing God? So where do we stop it?

541
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.440
You said, well, it's okay to play God in these

542
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.800
thirty seven ways. But who whoa, whoa, whoa whoa whoa Woah,

543
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.360
this is a step too far. But when who makes

544
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:31.039
that determination that it's a step too far? Is it arbitrary?

545
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:36.360
How about ethical alternatives? While while the intention to reduce

546
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:41.159
animal suffering and address medical needs is commendable, philological ethics

547
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:45.239
may encourage exploring alternatives that do not involve the creation

548
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:49.559
of human like entities. For instance, advancements and plant based

549
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:54.480
research models, synthetic organs and non animal based meat substitutes

550
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:57.440
could align more closely with ethical principles that honor the

551
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:03.480
sanctity of life without introducing morally ambiguous practices. But again,

552
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:05.719
when you say this would be more in line with

553
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:09.320
the sanctity of human life, You're not creating life, right,

554
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:14.320
You're creating a non sentient, non conscious, no brain, no

555
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:19.639
nervous system, no anything. It's just you're not creating life,

556
00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.840
are you? Or is it considered a lot? I get what? Now?

557
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.960
How do we define what life is? Right? If it's

558
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:31.920
a body though, just a But if it doesn't have

559
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:34.920
a brain, but if it has a heart, does it

560
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.559
have a heart, but the heart's controlled by the brains.

561
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.320
All right, So then was it like I don't know,

562
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:42.760
Like I say, I would have to get into some

563
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.280
very specifics here. Some of you are more medical experts

564
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.440
than me, so I may need you your expertise here,

565
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.480
So I asked AI, I said, can you conclude this?

566
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:59.280
Ai says, well, the proposal to develop bodyoids aims to

567
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:03.639
address signals eificant ethical issues in medicine and food production

568
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:08.320
and introduces complex pillological and moral challenges. Engaging with these

569
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:12.920
questions requires a multidisciplinary dialogue. Please note, if we're going

570
00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:16.400
to deal with these questions, we need a multi disciplinary dialogue,

571
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:21.840
meaning like for me, I can handle the theiological I

572
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.360
may not be able to handle all of the scientific

573
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:31.760
and medical right, I can deal with philological issues. I

574
00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:34.360
can even deal with theological terms. I may get the

575
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.880
word sentient wrong, okay, when I was trying to find

576
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:43.480
that word right. So it's going to need multi multidisciplinary

577
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:48.039
dialogue that we're going to have to consider scientific innovation

578
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:56.960
alongside ethical, philosophical, and thilological reflection to navigate the moral landscape. Responsibility. Responsibly,

579
00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:03.400
I should say, we have responsibility to try to navigate this.

580
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:06.400
Now here's one of these things I talk about this

581
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.360
people like this is just crazy, this is insane. Whatever

582
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:11.760
happened to the good old days? Right? I mean there'll

583
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:13.599
be a lot of people who don't really care. But

584
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:16.480
again I say, I've said this for years. We're gonna

585
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:21.039
wake up one day and we're gonna be like, uh,

586
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:28.159
what do we do? What do we do? What do

587
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:35.440
we do? Now? The discussions before was even some of

588
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.360
the discussions before. It takes it a step further. You

589
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:44.679
don't create a body oid that's nonsentient, no consciousness, none

590
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:48.719
of that. You create almost now I wanted to call

591
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.320
it a clone, maybe a humanoid. You create something that

592
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:57.679
seems to be alive, seems to be alive, right, and

593
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:01.800
you use that for to do this or to do that,

594
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:04.840
or to help serve or to or or what if

595
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:06.639
you do this? What what if you do? Because we

596
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:08.760
talked about a lot of these concepts, some of these

597
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:13.039
are still theoretical. What is and there's been a lot

598
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:20.719
of discussion about this. Scientists basically can create designer babies.

599
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:22.719
This has been talked about a lot can go in

600
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:28.119
and genetically modify, can can do everything there for this

601
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:33.320
new born baby. And you can determine size, hair color, gender,

602
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.400
you can do you can you can decide all of

603
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.199
these things and you can create it. So it's it

604
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.920
is most likely protected from this disease or this disease.

605
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.239
It's not gonna get this disease. It's not gonna get

606
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.599
so in other words, you basically create almost like the

607
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:53.280
perfect person. They're not gonna lose their hair. They're not

608
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.360
going to They're not gonna do this. They're they're gonna

609
00:42:56.440 --> 00:43:00.039
they're not gonna have a natural inclination to for a

610
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:02.400
They're not going You can just I mean, I don't

611
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.599
know how far you can go, but basically they're going

612
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:08.800
to be they're gonna look wonderful, they're going to be designer.

613
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:12.440
In fact, there there's articles out there about designer babies.

614
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:18.719
You can create babies that can at least genetically be

615
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:23.840
avoid all of the difficulties and the and the negativities

616
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:27.079
that can people can be born with. It's that a

617
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.119
step too far, I mean, because you're like, well, they're

618
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.199
created by God? Where they created by God? Are they

619
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:39.800
created by us? What if we create some kind of

620
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:46.840
living entity. It's actually it is sentient, it feels, it hears,

621
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.760
it's conscious, but we we created it. Does that have

622
00:43:50.800 --> 00:43:59.599
a soul? I mean those are questions that go way, going,

623
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.119
way back beyond what this article is talking about. This

624
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:04.400
article is talking about. So let me go back through this.

625
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.119
So what if I was to tell you that scientists

626
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:14.320
are now proposing the creation of lab grown human bodies,

627
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:24.400
bodies without brains, without consciousness, without a soul, and they're

628
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.400
going to create them for the purpose of organ harvesting,

629
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:37.480
medical research, and even meet consumption. These entities are called bodyoids.

630
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:41.960
And while they may lack remember this is where I

631
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:47.400
was trying to figure out a word sentience, sentience do

632
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:54.239
we use that there? They lack consciousness, they like a soul,

633
00:44:55.400 --> 00:45:02.519
they do bear a resemblance to human life. And remember,

634
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:10.039
bodyoids is defined as a proposed term for lab grown,

635
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:18.280
non sentient or sentient human bodies that are cultivated from

636
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:23.079
stem cells and artificial wombs. These entities are intentionally engineered

637
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:27.719
to lack consciousness, brain function, or the ability to feel pain,

638
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:31.360
and are developed for purposes such as medical research, organ harvesting,

639
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:36.800
and potentially even ethical meat production. Remember the key characteristics

640
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.519
non sentient designed without brains or nervous systems to avoid

641
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:47.320
consciousness or pain. They're grown artificially, created using stem cells

642
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.480
and developed in artificial wombs. And they have a utilitarian purpose,

643
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:55.480
intended to serve as biological resource for organ or tissue.

644
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:58.760
They are not to be viewed as a living person.

645
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:04.920
They are not a living person. Again, it may sound

646
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:12.400
like science fiction, may sound crazy, but how far away

647
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:21.280
are we from it? Do you support it? Are you

648
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.400
against it? Now? The minute you say you're against it,

649
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:27.519
all I ask is then you've got to think carefully

650
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.039
about how you're framing why you're against it, so that

651
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:36.760
you are logically consistent, because when we get into these issues,

652
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:41.159
consistency becomes very difficult to maintain. All Right, I'll stop there.

653
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:46.639
I do apologize for the whole sentient sentient discussion, but

654
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:48.320
I think it was important because it got me to

655
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:52.840
look up that hesitation for me trying to find the word,

656
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:54.880
got me to look it up, and once I saw

657
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.639
well that's once I remind myself of the definition of sentient,

658
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.639
then I was like, well, okay, with that or without that.

659
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:04.440
I mean, an animal is sentient. But we wouldn't say

660
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.719
it has a soul, so that okay, all right, that

661
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:12.480
that that is irrelevant to the discussion. Right. So but

662
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.679
if it's not even that, but it doesn't even have

663
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:21.239
a brain, okay, all right, So if you remove all

664
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.239
of that, then is it even alive? And if it's

665
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:29.440
not even alive, then okay, I don't know. You say, well,

666
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.199
where do you fall on this? You can hear me

667
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.079
struggling to figure I'm trying to figure this out in

668
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.559
real time with you. I don't have the definitive answer.

669
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:37.679
I'm trying to. Look. I was simply listening to a

670
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:40.119
baseball game, and the next thing, you know, my, my

671
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:44.760
peace and tranquility of listening to baseball, something that feels

672
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:50.039
nostalgic and antiquated, was interrupted by Hey, we're gonna create

673
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.800
bodies that you can eat. Well, wait, what's going on?

674
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.960
What I'm trying to listen to baseball? So yeah, I

675
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.400
mean I I went from listening to baseball to going

676
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.039
live trying to figure all of this out in real time.

677
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:05.639
So that's yeah, that's where that's why I was stumbling

678
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:08.039
and struggling, struggling through some of this trust trying to

679
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:10.559
process it right, I was trying to process it in

680
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:15.119
real time with you. All right, I'll stop there. You

681
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.840
can oh. As I've laid it down, I've kind of

682
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:25.440
placed it before you. Now, gather the family around and

683
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:34.000
discuss bodyoids pro or negative. God bless