The Future of Christianity

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Monday, December the second, twenty twenty four. It is currently tenh eight am Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Well, what we're going to try to do in this episode is we're going to try to maybe kind of predict the future, or maybe maybe I should say not so much trying to predict the future, Maybe we should say this. We're going to analyze some current data and then try to take from that current data which speaks to what's going on right now, and then see if we can use that to look into the future. I mean, we're fast approaching twenty twenty five, look into twenty two, twenty five, twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, and try to figure out where is Christianity headed, where is it going? And do we see it as a good thing? Do we see it as a bad thing?

1:14 How should churches think about it? How should Christians think about it? What should our reaction be, how should we navigate it? What changes should possibly be made? But I feel, based off the data that I'm looking at, that there's a major change underway when it comes to the religious landscape here in the United States of America. And I feel that in many ways this is true around the world, but probably most well put it this way, I think most of the data speaks more to what's going on in the United States of America. So I'm going to try to figure out using the data that we have about the current time, about the present. We're going to use the current data about the press and to see if that can help us figure out what the religious landscape is doing and where it is headed moving into twenty twenty five. All right, now, I know typically you wait to the end of the year to do these kinds of messages, kind of making your predictions about what's going to happen in the new year and start thinking about it. But today, I feel like we need to talk about it today because well, of these news articles.

2:24 Now this is going to let me explain how I'm going to have to do this. I have two news articles here right. One is from the Wall Street Journal and the second one is from the Atlantic. Wall Street Journal and the Atlantic those are my sources. However, especially the Wall Street Journal article. It's behind a paywall, so at first it let me see it, and so I was able to read the entire article. But then after I don't know, I think I saw the article yesterday. Yeah, I don't think it was early this morning. I think it was yesterday. So I saw the article yesterday. When I went back to it this morning, well now I can't. I can't access the article because it gave me, like I guess, one article to read, and then it put it behind a paywall, locked it down, so I can't get to that. The Atlantic one, I think I can still get to, maybe even that's behind a paywall. The bottom line is, what I'm going to have to give you are summaries of the two articles. Now I don't like doing that, right because I would prefer to just read basically both articles, or at least most of them, so that you know that I'm being accurate with the information and you know that I'm not, you know, just picking certain parts of it. But I'm just gonna have to kind of give you summaries, all right, So I apologize for that. But that's the best I could do.

3:43 I mean, unless I was going to pay to you know, get full access, and I didn't really feel like paying to get full access simply to read it read a part of an article for a podcast episode. Okay, so that's what I'm going to do and what I We're going to take these two articles, analyzed them and see what it means again going into the future. And then we're gonna add a third not a third article, but some additional statistics, and we're gonna put those statistics with these two articles which contain statistics. So we're gonna have basically three groups of statistics, put them together ultimately to say, hey, I think this is where we're headed. And then you can tell me whether you agree or disagree. All right, now, the two main articles, right Wall Street Journal and The Atlantic, they present contrasting trends in America's religious landscape. In fact, what we may be able to say not only contrasting.

4:48 Maybe you will even feel like it's contradictory. Right, these are contrasting. Maybe you'll feel like it's contradictory. Maybe you will not. But I think we can minimum say contrasting. Maybe we could go even further and say contradictory. But it's giving us these trends that are going on that I don't know how you are going to think about them, but it definitely caused me to go, I've got to turn on a microphone. Right, here's what's happening. We have a surge and Bible cells, a massive surge and Bible cells right now here in the United States of America, right, And this is happening especially among first time buyers. So we have first they've never bought a Bible. They've never bought but all of these people now are going out buying Bibles, and many of them are making tiktoks of them going to buy their first Bible. Now, what's going on?

5:47 Why is there this surge? And really, I'm going to read the Bible. I'm going to read the Bible. What is happening with that? Now you can determine good or bad? Right, we could have a big discussion about that. I mean, it's good they're buying God's word. Bad because I don't know if they're going to know what to do with it when they buy it. But look, that's been a problem forever. But while this is happening, so on the one news article, we've got this surge and Bible cells. But at The second article at the very same time indicates a significant decline in church attendance. So while Bible cells are surging, people are leaving the church. So that means they're leaving the church. That doesn't mean they're leaving Christianity, doesn't mean they're leaving their faith, doesn't mean they're leaving spirituality.

6:42 It means they're leaving the church. But the interest in the Bible is increasing. What do you do with that? So let's look at these two articles. Let's start with the rising Bible cells. Right, the Wall Street Journal reports a twenty two percent increase and Bible cells in the United States through October, surpassing the less than one percent rise and overall print book cells. So Bible seals are up twenty two percent. Well, while other books, other print books, they've only increased in one percent. So Bible sales are outperforming the cells of any other kind of books. Now there should be a celebration there on one. Wow, people are buying the Bible. Now for me, I get nervous, right, I get really, really really nervous about this, not because I don't want people to buy the Bible, but because I just know they're going to buy the Bible and then do what with it? Right? Do they even have the skills to interpret it? I think that that's an important question, but we'll talk about that later, all right. So, so Bible sales are increasing while other book sales have only increased by one percent. The growth is driven by first time buyers and the release of new versions. Now

8:13 KJV only people will not like that information. But so what's driving it is new versions of the Bible. So we may want to keep up with what new versions have been what new versions have been released over the last ten years. I think that's something to look at. What new versions of Bibles have been released over the last ten years. And we need to look at those versions, right because are they paraphrases? Are they like we? Are they new translations? Like what's been going on over the last ten years? All right? So their first time buyers, now this means people who've never purchased a Bible before, they've never purchased one. They're buying their very first Bible, all right. That probably means they don't have a lot of experience with it. I would I'm just guessing, and they're possibly buying new versions. Do they even know what they're buying with notable engagement. This is notable from Generation Z.

9:12 Gen Z seem to be the ones that are buying the Bibles now. The Wall Street Journal offers factors such as economic concerns, global conflicts, political uncertainties are prompting individuals to seek comfort and assurance through personal Bible ownership. That makes me a little nervous. That seems to sound like they're coming to the Bible and they're looking for Look at the things they're looking for here. They are looking for comfort and assurance. Comfort and assurance. Now, I would argue, when you come to the Bible, you don't look for comfort and assurance, You look for truth, right, You look for what it says, and it may be comforting, it may not be comforting, it may assuring, it may not be assuring. Right. So, but okay, but that's what they're looking for, and just keep that in mind. It seems like a very personal motivation, like this is a very personalized thing. Just keep that in mind because I think that I think what we're seeing is a trend of a kind of a very personalized spirituality. I think is taking ship, which has always been an issue to some degree.

10:25 It may be even more. So. Now we'll keep well, we'll just keep that in mind. I'm going to break this down, you know, piece by piece, and hopefully we can put this together and draw something from this. All right. Additionally, celebrities and social media influencers are prompting and promoting Bible purchases. This is interesting. So what you have is you have people on TikTok, you have people on YouTube, and they are promoting and in some cases leading to the surge and Bible cells. Now what does that tell you that a lot of look, whether you like it, whether you look, you can sit on your front porch and yell at the kids to get off your line. You can just hey, I hate social media and what's wrong with the world today, and you can sit there and gripe about it, or you can go hmm okay. So what's happening is people on social media are having more influence than maybe we would we would like, but they're having influence. So you got people on social media promoting Bible cells, which is driving the Bible sales at least probably among a certain generation maybe gen Z right. But now this innovative designs and target and marketing have contributed to what some describe as a golden age of Bible publishing, offering a diverse range of additions tailored to various demographics. So are we

11:59 in the golden age of Bible publishing. If you listen to the older generation, they're like, I don't know what's happened to the world. It's falling apart, it's the end everyone. And they give kind of maybe a very they give maybe a very older generational perspective on what's going on in the world. But while they are saying all of these things about you know, nobody cares about God, nobody cares well, young people are buying the Bible in larger numbers. Then, I mean it's a surge. It's a golden age of Bible publishing. If you're a Bible publisher, you're like, yeah, the rest of the publishing world they only increase by one percent, We've increased by twenty two percent. Come on, cap publishing Bibles, come on with some new designs, some cool looking covers. Come on, Cape publishing published published, come on, print print, print, print, print, print, print. We need some people on TikTok. We need some people on YouTube, We need some people on podcasts. We need some influencers come on promote our Bibles as a golden age. I think if you ask older Americans, hey, you do you would you when do you think was the golden age of Bible publishing? People would probably say. Older people would probably say, well, no one's reading the Bible anymore, no one cares about the Bible. That doesn't seem to be positive, that seems to be well, it seems most likely not to be accurate.

13:22 You see, It's so strange how our perception is. Our perception is nobody cares about the Bible. Nobody cares, nobody cares, nobody cares. Nobody cares. A lot of people seem to care because they're buying bibles. Now, buying bibles is very different than reading and studying them. Now, how much reading and studying we can talk about. But it's kind of strange. Well, when we put this all together, you'll I'll talk about what's There's a lot of things I can talk about. I'm just going to try to do this in some kind of order. Just that's the rising Bible cells twenty two percent increase, rest of the printing world about one percent. Gens seems to be driving it. Seems to be the origin of a lot of this is social media, new designs, new versions. People are buying the Bible all right. At the same time while that is going on twenty two percent increase. That's the Wall Street Journal. The second article released, I think within the same day or a day of that article. This comes from The Atlantic. At the same time.

14:31 An article from The Atlantic highlights that approximately forty million Americans have stopped attending church in the past twenty five years. Now. The article begins pretty powerfully because it's an individual saying that basically, all the Christians he knew, all the Christians he went to church with, well, now none of those people go to church. Many of them no longer even profess christian Jianity, and a lot of people have those stories. All these people I went to church with, Nope, they don't go to church anymore. They don't go to church any anymore. Many of them no longer profess Christianity. Some may still profess Christianity, but they have nothing to do with the local church. Forty million Americans have stopped attending church in the past twenty five years, making the largest concentrated change in church attendance and US history. So while Bible sales are surging, people are walking out of the church.

15:37 Seems contradictory. It seems I mean, there's at least a contrast there that has to be discussed. This decline. So while people are buying the Bible, and they're coming to the Bible looking for some kind of assurance, looking for some kind of comfort, well, while a lot of people are leaving the church. And they're leaving and it's attributed to not only to disillusionment with religious institutions due to issues like abuse scandals, but also to the demands of contemporary American life. So a lot of people leaving the church coud they're just disillusioned with the institution. They're tired of it. Maybe they're tired of the politics of it, they're just tired of of you know. It's it's it just seems like it's a business, right. It's it's the Christian industrial complex, right. We need money so we can build this, and we need money so we can do this and this and this, and it's just like, oh, we got to get new people be so we can do this. And it just seems like it's kind of a business, right, And there's such a there's kind of a template. There's politics that take over. Oh, there's the internal fighting and division. Everyone has their own agenda. Scandal, abuse, scandal that churches never really want to address. And while we have all of these scandals and divisions and politicking and back biding and gossip and slander. While all of this is going on in the church, you go to church and you hear over and over and over and over.

17:06 You're a new creature. The old things are passed away. All things that become new you can basically do. We should basically be perfect. While in the meantime, sex abuse, this this. I think at some point people say, this thing. None of this seems organic, None of this seems real. It seems contrived. It seems like just a program, a business model. I'm sick of it, and I think a lot of people have become disillusioned with a lot of it. But at the same time, another thing that can be leading people to leaving the church is the demands of the American Contemporary American life, the pursuit of individual, professional and financial success may leave little time for communal activities, including church participation. Hey, people are even more focused on their job, trying to make a living living, trying to pay the bills, they may not have time for church.

18:03 So the article in the Atlantic suggest that churches may not be asking enough of their members, failing a to foster a sense of mutuality and community that counters the individualistic tendencies of modern society. So we now just keep going, we have this individualistic thing going on in modern societies. Now, what the Atlantic does is kind of say churches are not really fighting against this individualistic thing. It's not really finding a way to fight against it. Now, just note people are buying Bibles in larger numbers, But why are they buying bibles for their own assurance, for their own comfort.

18:45 It's very individualistic, It's very personalized. Right, Well, what's happening in the church. Many people are leaving the church to pursue well, individualistic goals very and the church is not being able to fight against this end of dualistic idea. But I'm gonna make a claim here that's going to tick off a lot of people. I'm not speaking of Catholicism obviously, but for all of the non Catholic world that we look back to the Protestant Reformation, when Luther stood against the institution. He stood against the Church, and he's like, the Church doesn't have the authority. It's the word of God. Na sounds great. It preaches good, makes for a good movie, makes for a good sermon, everything, everybody likes it. Oh, he stood against the evil Catholic Church, and he's like, the Bible, not the Church. The Bible is the authority. And everybody's like, amen, Amen. But there were some unintended consequences from that that I think we are still feeling in twenty twenty four, and we're gonna feell in twenty twenty five moving into the future. And this unintended consequence was while Luther wanted to say the Bible is the authority, what ultimately happened was he transferred the authority from the Church, the magisterium, the pope. Okay, no, we're not gonna listen to them. We're gonna say we're listening to the Bible. But in reality, what happened is that authority jumped over the Bible and it landed right in the lap of the individual. Now it was every

20:17 individual saying, no, I believe the Bible says this, and I'm the one interpreting the Bible and my interpretation really becomes authoritative. It's not that the Bible becomes authoritative. Every individual's interpretation of the Bible becomes authoritative. So in reality, Luther fought against one pope to create millions of little popes, millions of little magisterial authorities going no, the Bible says this, you're wrong. So while Luther was saying the Catholic Church was wrong, next thing you know, people were turning around saying, no, Luther, you are wrong. Then this group formed, and this group formed in this group, and then this group would say that group is wrong, and that great, and then it's just been going on and on and on and on and on and a roundabout way. The Reformation created all the framework for an individualistic approach to Christianity. Now, those individuals found like minded individuals to form churches, but then that church would only operate until as long as those individuals agreed. Now, as soon as someone disagreed, well you may get church splits, you get people leaving, you get denominational splits, you get people trying to push out the pastor and you've seen all of that play out since the Reformation. So this individual so we have an individualistic tendency in modern society. The church hasn't been able to fight it when other church can't fight it, because the

21:47 church pretty much promotes it, at least still logically, So, while we have Bible cells going up twenty two percent increase, we have church attendants decreasing. And again everyone keeps arguing how drastic is this decrease? Is it increasing? Is it slowing down? And there's a lot of conflicting reports there, but we have these seems to be very too reality. This seems to be very accurate, at least to some level. Bible sales are going up, people are leaving the church. To what to make of that? We can make too much of it, we can make too little of it, but we have to at least consider it. So I started thinking, what are the implications, What are the implications for the future? Bible sales going up, church attendants going down?

22:44 Could it possibly be that these trends are indicating a complex and evolving religious landscape in America? That the answer showing there's a complexity here, but it's evolving, it's changing. Could this be, as I just spent a lot of time talking about it, we really have this personalized religious landscape that's increasing. See the increase in Bible sales, particularly among younger individuals. Maybe it's suggesting a move towards a personalized spirituality. Maybe the younger generation, maybe the older generator say this is You may disagree here, but again my job is just to provide analysis here, right. I believe the Protestant Reformation created the framework for a very personalized Christianity, whereas you your Bible, your interpretation becomes the authority, You become the pope, you become the magisterian. I know people get mad when I say that, but I think church history that I'm right. But here's what I think happened.

24:03 The older generations were like, okay, they would at least play the game. They would at least go to a church, right, They would at least say the right words. They would put on the right little robe of self righteousness and act like they were part of the church and they cared about the church. But what you saw back then was all the internal fighting within the church. It was still very personalized. Everyone had their own agenda. Everybody wanted it their way. They would argue, fight, drive out pastors, cause church splits take half of the church to go somewhere.

24:44 It was still very personalized. Right. People would be like, Nope, I disagree with you. I disagree with you. I'm going to go to another church. And they would go to a church that did what met their personalized wants, needs, desires, and beliefs. They were not going to stay in a place that did not get them what they wanted. They were not going to stay in a place that made that didn't make them happy. They weren't gonna stay in a place that taught something that they did not agree with. They would go find like minded people. It was still very personalized, but it was personalized within within the illusion of church. Oh it's church, We're we are united. I'll stop it. Everyone in here is in it for themselves.

25:26 And I talked about it so many times as a pastor. You get that Monday phone call. If you get the Monday phone calls a pastor, you know what's coming. Someone's got to they're mad about the sermon. They're gonna complain about something. They don't call you on Monday to talk about the sermon or no, no, no, no, they're gonna come to complain about it. Right, So I would get those Monday phone calls. And again, let me make it very clear any stories I tell, My stories are insignificant compared to any other pastors I've heard tell their stories. Right, I've had it great, I've had it wonderful. I got I mean, I got very I mean, there are some things I saw that led me to be disillusioned and frustrated, and I think in some cases it slapped me in the face of the reality of how church really is.

26:12 But even then, my situation has been golden compared to many, right, because I've heard horror stories. Right, mine never even reached a Disney scary movie level. Okay, mine, Mine was really, really, really tame. Okay, but I still would get those phone calls, and inevitably they would be like, I don't like this and I don't like that, and so I would always ask this question, Okay, so what if we change things to your liking? Right, we do this, and we do this, and we do this, and we do this. What if I make you happy? And then I would say, well, what about the people who sit across the aisle from you, who sit in the pew in front of you or the pew behind what about them? They've been in the church ten years longer than you, and they're like, well, I'm and then they would always say, well, I'm not asking you to change, say I'm not, and they would always try to backtrack. But then inevitably they would leave the church. Why because I would not give them what they wanted. See, they were functioning within the construct of church, but it was still personalized. It was still me me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me me, preach what I want, teach what I want, interpret it the way I want, do it the way I want, or I'm leaving your church. It's always been personalized.

27:26 Maybe what we are seeing is the younger generation is like, I'm not playing your little reindeer games. I'm not going to your little institution where we can all pretend. I'm just gonna I'm gonna pursue this religious pursuit, this spiritual journey me myself and I because that's how it really functions in the church anyway, other than if more, if people have power and money, they'll get to make the rules. I mean, couple right. Maybe so, maybe the increase and Bible, particularly among younger individuals, suggest and move towards a personalized spirituality.

28:07 People may be seeking individual religious experience outside traditional communal settings, possibly due to a desire for autonomy in their spiritual journeys. I mean, look, I mean everyone already has autonomy within the non Catholic world. It's you, your interpretation. You get decide if the preaching is true or false. So there's already autonomy. Want to pretend that? Why I pretend that we're unified and we're a body and we're a community, And give me a break. It's a bunch of individuals fighting for their own wants. So why pretend. Maybe the younger people are like, you know what, I want autonomy. I'm not going to play your game. I'm no more autonomous, I'm no more personal, you know, self seeking. I've no more made this more personal than you guys. Just you are doing it all under the illusion of a church.

29:05 Maybe my view here is very cynical, but I think there's some truth to what I'm saying. So I think that what we're seeing is this personafy. I don't want to say this personalizing of Christianity, this individualistic approach of Christianity. I believe it's always been there, and I think the Protestant Reformation set the framework for it, and it's it's been playing itself out, but on past generations that played itself out within the church. Now it's playing itself out outside of the church. That's my assessment. But how about a second thing that this I'm just trying to offer thoughts here about what this could all mean. I'm just trying to interpret all of this. So what we're going to see, I think going into into twenty twenty five, twenty six, is more of this personalized spirituality. It's going to become more individualistic, more personalized. It's been that way.

30:00 I think now it's going to happen outside of the church instead of happening within the church personally. That's that's my Well, get it personally, you get it personally, That's what I think. You can tell me what you think. Another thing institutional disngagement. The decline in church attendance reflects a growing disengagement from organized religious institutions. Now. This could be due to perceived misalignments between church teaching and personal beliefs, especially among younger generations who may view religious institutions as out of touch with contemporary values. There's a disengagement with the institution, but still note the personalized this this is going to become a theme over and over and over.

30:54 Please know what happened. They're gonna the younger generational like, I'm tired of the institution. I'm tired because I I don't agree with it that the institution and my personal beliefs are in conflict. Now, in the past, what would happen. The older generation would be in the institution, disagree with the institution, either lead for a church split or a replacement of a pastor so that they could try to get their agenda and their perspective as being dominant being the way to go, or they just leave and go find a church that's more in line with their personal taste and their personal feelings. The younger generations like, I'm not going to sit there and play out. Why am I going to get involved in all of that drama.

31:39 Why I'm just going to disengage from the institution completely. The older generation was still just as it's hey, my personal beliefs, my personal wants, my personal desires. But again, they played that game within the church. So the younger generation they see a misalignment between the church is teaching and their personal beliefs, so they begin to view institutions as out of touch with contemporary values, like forget it, I'm just done with the whole institution, and then they go pursue their own personalized version of Christianity. Now you may condemn that all day, but I think the church has been playing that game again. The Protestant Reformation started all of this. So we have a personalized Christianity that is emerging, and we have an institutional disengagement. People are disengaging from the institution, and I think that's only going I don't think that's going to decrease. I think is only going to increase. Oh, you'll always have exceptions. You'll have some churches that will grow because what will happen.

32:43 There'll be someone out there who'll kind of in a sense, they'll let their finger hold it up in the air. Which way are the wind's going? Ooh, look at that. The younger generation are going disdirection, and they'll create a church that will somehow kind of fit to this new that's happened since the Protestant Reformation. That's how we got there's always a church finding whereveryone. They're looking at where the trends are going, and they're gonna be right there, and they're gonna get They're gonna catch They're gonna catch the wave. They're like on a surfboard waiting, Oh there comes a wave. They're gonna catch it, and they'll write it and they'll make they'll build a little mini kingdom.

33:24 They'll get famous, they'll get popular. Millions upon millions of dollars will flow into the institution, and then sooner or later the institution will go away. I mean, this is what Just think of all the church models that's come and gone, where everybody was like the emerging church, and then everybody was like, oh, seeker sensitive, and then there were purpose driven, and then look at Mars Hill and Mark Drisk There's always someone will always say oh, here's where things are going, and they're gonna be right there at the wave, and they will get rich. Everyone will make lots of money, big buildings, big programs. Then sooner later the people will change their wants and their needs and they're like, ah, we're done with this, and then someone else will have to go where's everybody going? But it's always been personalized. I just think maybe what we're going to see is people are going to be like, I don't care what you do. You can come up.

34:15 I'm not going back to the institution. So maybe this is we see a personalized Christianity, we see an institutional disengagement. Maybe we're seeing a cultural shift. Maybe the contrasting trends Bible sells up, church attendance down, is it's showing and highlighting a shift towards individualism and American culture. So American culture is moving towards individualism. Well, this individualism has always infected the church. Again, the Protestant Reformation was about one individual saying the Catholic Church is wrong or other are multiple individuals saying the Catholic Church is wrong. But it was individualism. And then they said the scriptures, and that sounds great, But then the individual got the scripture and the individual got to determine if what was right or wrong.

35:07 So then you could say, well, they're wrong and they're wrong, and they're wrong, and they're wrong and they're wrong, and well, so that's always been built into Christianity since the Protestant Reformation. But now the American culture maybe moving towards an individualistic identity. And if that's the case, well why go to an institution or individualism? Sometimes you're told to conform or be cast out right. Maybe within American culture, personal spiritual practices are favored over collective religious experiences. Maybe this shift is influenced by a broader societal change, including technological advancements and changing social norms. Maybe what we're seeing is people are just like they're moving towards an individualistic mindset. So maybe while personal engagement with religious texts like the Bible is on the rise, traditional forms of communal religious participation are declining.

36:17 This could suggest that the future of America's religious landscape may be characterized by individualized expressions of faith and a reevaluation of the role of religious institutions in society. Now that's a summary of those two things. So what I did is I tried to I asked AI to summarize what can we learn from those two things, And that was the summary AI gave me. There's this individualistic thing going and even AI acknowledges that this this could indicate something is changing. So I was like, huh, okay, so Bible sales are up, church attendance is down. H I'm curious.

37:01 So I did a little research recent data. So I had to do a little research on this recent data indicates a notable increase in the consumption of religious and spiritual podcast Oh, this is following the trend. People are buying Bibles, leaving church, but they're looking for religious instruction. They're looking to understand. They've got questions about theology, They've got questions about the Bible. What are they not going to They're not going back to the institutionalized church. They are looking online for those answers. So they're turning to TikTok, they're turning to YouTube, they're turning to podcast. The religion and spirituality podcast category has experienced a forty nine percent global increase and audience engagement, reflecting a growing interest and spiritual content. Wow. Bible sales up, religious podcasts listening and engagement up, church attendants down. Something is happening. Something is happening,

38:36 And I think churches are always look I was saying twenty years ago. I was saying twenty years ago that churches should be They should already have microphones and empty rooms in their churches. Turn them into many studios, and pastors should be addressing cultural issues, recording devotionals. They should be utilizing those church and producing five thousand hours of content I was saying that twenty something years ago, what is the church doing? Pastors? You get paid a full time many of your full time pastors. Do something with your time, do something. You got all these political things and programs and activities, produce teaching, theology discussions, do that, but nobody, for the most part, nobody listened. Now what changed a lot was when the pandemic happened. Then all a sudden, churches were like, wait, we got a live stream. Now.

39:33 Of course they instead of being creative, they were just like, turn on a camera and broadcast the entire service. Or you could be producing hour after hour after hour of teaching, of devotional of theological discussion. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I mean it just drives me crazy. How sometimes the church is so blind to this. But guess what happened. A lot of people say, well, forget the church, forget churches. I'll just turn on a microphone and create my own spiritual, my own philological podcast. Don't need the church. And those religious and philological podcasts are increasing.

40:18 The people are more people are listening to them, forty nine percent increase. I think this, I think there's something going on here. Approximately thirty percent of US podcast listeners on a regular basis tune into religion and spiritual podcast highlighting a significant portion of the audience seeking spiritual guidance through this medium. That's from the Pew Research Center. So you take all the podcast listeners, thirty percent on a regular basis are looking for philological spiritual content. That means people are looking for spiritual guidance through podcasts, not the institutionalized church. Now, the institutionalized church could be producing this content that people are listening to. They're just not walking through your front door. Now. Beyond podcast, twenty percent of US adults watch online videos with religious content and fifteen percent listen to religion focused podcasts, indicating a broader trend of engaging with spiritual material through digital platforms, again from the Pew Research Center. In other words, what they're saying is more and more people. So we have Bible sales going up, the golden age of Bible publishing. Church attendance is dropping dramatically, but people are listening to more and more religious podcasts. I wonder what is happening now. These

41:49 statistics suggest a growing trend of individuals. There's that word again, turning to digital audio platforms for religious and spiritual content. Come on, look, you've got to do something with this information. It's telling you something. So I'm like, okay, So let's take the podcast. Let's take the Bible art. Let's take the Bible article, the church attendance article, and the podcast statistics. Let's put them all together and create some observations. Right, Let's put these all together and see if we can get kind of a more nuanced understanding of what is happening.

42:35 So we have a rise in Bible sales. So now I'm going to back up and put this all together. Now, this indicates this rise in Bible sales seems to indicate a growing interest and personal self directed spirituality. Please note that again, personal self directed spirituality, this individual lies personalized thing. Younger generations in particular, are purchasing Bibles, suggesting they seek a connection to faith, but may not engage in institutionalized worship. They're not going to go to the institution. So there's the rise in Bible sells. Now, at the same time, we have a decline in church attendance. This seems to show a disillusionment with institutionalized religion and a shift away from communal religious activities. Time constraints, individualistic cultural values, and institutional failures contribute to this trend. I mean, people just get sick of the church. They get sick of the drama.

43:34 And I think if you just pay attention, if they know it's individualistic, it's everyone, it's me me me, me, me, me me. And I think people like you know what, I'm sick of it. If I wanted just to make it about me, I'll just make it about me, I said of playing the game Bible seals up. Church attendance down. At the same time, we have an increase in religious podcast consumption, which may demonstrate that people are exploring aternative methods of engaging with faith. Podcasts allow individuals to explore spiritual ideas on their own time, emphasizing convenience, personalization, and access to diverse phyllological perspectives. See the younger generation may be like, why don't you that's your opinion, that's just your opinion. Who makes you right? What makes you write?

44:45 I want to hear someone else's opinion. Now the older generation would like, no, no, no, see this this is the theology we've agreed upon. So stop asking questions, shut up, and color in the lines right, just this is our But the younger gener like, why do I have to shut up in color in the lines? Who drew those lines? Who says your theological system is right now? Older generation doesn't like that you young rebellious people just shut up and sit down and listen. But the older generation played the same game. Just if they don't like, if they didn't like what was going on in a church, that we just leave to go fund a church that met what they want. They were just as personalized and individualistic as the younger generation. The younger generation just says, well, I don't need the institution, where the older generation felt like we have to stay within the institution. We'll just go make another institution because we didn't like that institution. Right.

45:43 There's the story. I can't remember exactly how he goes. There was a man who was in a plane crashed and he ended up washing up on a deserted island who was by himself. He'd been there for a number of years and when they come to rescue him, they were like, oh, how are you doing, and he's like, I'm so happy to see you. And there what is that? Because he had built a structure and go oh that was a church. They go, well what is that? Go? That was? That was another church? Well why did you build another church? Well, the first first church split, you're the only one on the island. Yeah, well I split with myself, so I had to start another church. The point is, even if you're going to church by yourself, you'll have a church split. Okay, obviously it's a ridiculous story, but it just shows you how the institutionalized church worked.

46:32 So maybe maybe what we have here is we have these the rise in Bible sales, the decline in church tends to increase in religious podcasts, and we have something happening. So maybe some things that we are seeing here. Again, we've already talked about it personalized and digital faith. Now we're going to put the two concepts together. We have a personalized digital faith. People are increasingly curating their spiritual lives through digital platform like podcast personalized tools, such as specific Bible additions tailored to their demographic The shift reduces reliance on physical church attendance or institutional guidance. Basically, you know, you go on a music streaming service and you create your own playlist. People are creating their own spiritual playlist.

47:21 I'm gonna listen to this, I'm gonna use this Bible, I'm gonna use this Bible app I'm gonna do this, and then they just kind of create their own very Now people say, well, that's horrible. What about the church. People been doing that with the church for since the Reformation. Where we're gonna have this kind of church. How come you go to any city you've got five thousand different churches. Why? Because everyone has to have their own flavor. I just think the young people are like enough with your games, you do the same thing. You're not better than us. So we have a personalized digital faith. That's that's kind of emerging. We'll call these emerging themes. We have a personalized digital faith. I think that is emerging. Another thing that's emerging we have a decentralization of religious authority. Now, the decentralizing of religious authority started with the Protestant Reformation, when Luther told the Catholic Church, no, well, then there was no longer a centralized authority. Now, what Luther would have argued is for the centralized authority being the Bible.

48:31 But we all know what happened. The centralized authority went from the church, and it became decentralized to every individual becomes their own pope, their own interpreter, their own magisterium, and then well the rest is history. Well now it's just kind of taking another step. Now, the younger generation is like, all of you are wrong. See the rise of podcasts and other digital religious content allows diverse voices to share their spiritual insights. This decentralization challenges the traditional gatekeeping role of the church leader, fostering a more democratized religious discourse. Now anyone now, now, pastors hate that. That's why you hear pastors say negative things about podcasters and bloggers because they don't like it because they're no longer the authority. But I don't think they. I think they always exaggerated how much authority they had. They only had authority as long as the people in the pew agreed with them. So as the people disagreed with them, they would either work to split the church, get rid of the pastor, or go start another church, or just go to a church that they agreed with. Again, I feel that the only thing is changed here is the framework in which all of this took place. So we have the person, we have a personalized digital faith. We have a decentralization of spiritual or religious, and then we have

50:01 individual individualism. Let's see it that way over community. Community was a buzzword. Now many churches are still trying to sell church based off community. Hey, hey, don't do life alone, come to our community. Community that's still as a buzzword. But I think many young people are like, they want individualism over community. Now, the increase in private Bible reading and the increase in religious podcast consumption seems to suggest a preference for individual expl exploring. Let's put it that way, right, The individuals want to explore, they want to do things their own way. This trend seems to align with broader cultural shifts towards autonomy and self expression. I want to be autonomous, express myself. I want to figure this out myself.

51:03 I want to walk my own path. Now there will be still now for the institutionalized church. There will still be people who long for community. They need that, They need to sit in a semi circle, holding hand, singing Kumbai yah. They love that. So there's always going to be a place in the church for people who long for community. But so law churches love to sell forever we need community. We need community. We need community. We need community, which in many cases, I think turn the church into a place for people to make friends more than it was to discover truth. But I die that's why churches have all the little programs they have and activities because community. A lot of people love that. But I think there's a lot of there's a large a large number of people who are like I don't care about all of that. And so I think that's what we're seeing some of the trends that seem to indicate that there are a growing number of people who don't need or want that. So I asked AI to make some predictions for the future. I said, okay, AI, predict the future for America, for the religious landscape in America, I said, Ai, I want you to predict the future.

52:12 So this is how what AI predicted. Are you ready? Number one? It told me hybrid faith practices. While traditional church attendants may continue to decline, hybrid models of faith engagement could emerge, blending in person gatherings with digital content. Churches that adapt by offering online resources, podcasts, and interactive digital spaces may retain relevance. So what are they saying, Hey, churches create digital content. I've been saying that for I don't own twenty stinking years, and nobody would listen. I've been saying that I was twenty years ahead of this curve. Right, Churches, you got a building, buy a microphone and talk, okay, talk about life, talk about struggles, talk about sin, talk about failures, talk about Bible interpretation, talk about hermeneuticts, talk about Bible study, talk about live just talk about everything.

53:10 I mean, right, I mean, a pastor's supposed to be app to teach. A pastor job is to communicate. Turn on a microphone and communicate with people, whether they're in their car, where they're here, while they're there, where they're driving here. Now, the older generation doesn't get it. They're like analysm okay, well that's fine, but there's plenty of people that may. So AI is saying, look, look, look, look, if we're going to predict the future, well, if churches want to retain relevance, they're gonna have to have hybrid faith practices, they're gonna have to have both. And you got you got a platform like Sermon Audio Sermon's two point zero app. You can carry it around live webcast, uploaded messages. The church can communicate with people twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. They don't have to just communicate with people on Sunday. They can communicate with people Monday morning, Monday afternoon, Monday evening, Monday night.

54:14 They can form a team, a digital ministry team. All right, Hey, this team is going to be focusing on the pulpit and who walks through the front door. And this team is going to be focusing on the people outside who may never even drive into our parking lot. You can have both second thing that may happen or kind of a predicting. According to ai Is, we may see a growth of digital spiritual community. Digital platforms may foster virtual communities centered around shared faith practices. Podcasts and social media could serve as the new congregation, with individuals forming loose, decentralized networks rather than committing to a single institution. So, in other words, instead of people gathering and in a building right where you've got all of the politics and the money and people can well, they can gather digitally and it's a loose fit community. The older generation will be like, that's just wrong. I understand, I understand you don't like it, but I think you gather together loosely within a local church claiming all kinds of nonsense that doesn't really mean anything because people will just leave whenever they want to leave anyway, fight for what they want.

55:45 I mean, I mean the institutional nonsense. We've seen it over and over and over. Okay, how many I mean, I would be interested. How many people who listen to this podcast have you experienced church splits, fighting pushing out the pastor the fighting, the backbiting that are arguing, the gossiping, you know, the politicizing of and whant to say, politicizing church politics, religious politics, all the everyone's got their own agenda. Another thing AI predicted is an increased demand for accessible theology.

56:26 The popularity of podcasts suggest a hunger for accessible, relatable philological discussion. Future religious leaders may need to focus on producing content that resonates with the challenges of modern life and appeals to diverse digital audience. Oh wait, what a shock. I've only been saying it for twenty years. If people are not going to church, they're going to have a demand for accessible theology. And guess where they want that theology? They want it showing up on pocket cast, Pandora spot five a serious accent. You just name the platform. That's where the YouTube TikTok. They want it there. They wanted to.

57:07 They want to get a little ding. They want a little notification on their device. They can look down going oh listen live, oh listen later download. They want to be able to do listen to it and a faster speed, listen to it in a slower speed, be able to re download stream. They want. That's what they want. They want it accessible, they want it easy, and they want it now. How to support this? How to fund it? Now? Maybe become different? Right, churches are funded by people who show up and give ten, twenty percent, thirty percent, whatever, these all these all this everybody wants all of this religious content. How it's going to be funded, that's going to become a whole different matter. But we can cross that bridge somewhere else. That's what they want. I mean, they can. They can go to church. Maybe they'll hear a sermon that will answer the questions. Maybe they won't.

58:10 In many cases, sermons have to be so you know, we talk about, oh, we hate PC culture, we hate political correct culture. The church it you gotta you gotta you gotta cross your te, dot your e. You can only say this because if you offend someone, people are gonna leave the church. They get offended. We talk about those little fragile snowflakes. The church is filled with fragile snowflakes. You say the wrong thing, they get ticked off of, mad, offended, and they leave. Podcast you don't have to worry about any of that. So podcasters can be more real, they can be more transparent. They can say what you can't say behind the pulpit. So, according to AI, if we're gonna look at the predictions, we may see, we may see or we need a hybrid faith practice, a growth of digital spiritual community. And there's going to be an increasing demand for accessible theology. Why is that demand? The more people leave the church, the demand for online theology is going to increase church attendance down. See what does that indicate. It doesn't mean people are abandoning faith. It doesn't mean we're becoming a more secular society. We may be even becoming a more spiritual society. But it's a personalized, individualistic spirituality, and they're going to get that information from somewhere, So they're going to look for theology online. This could

59:43 lead to a potential for polarization. The decentralization of spiritual authority could lead to greater theological diversity, but also potential fragmentation, with individuals aligning with niche groups or influencers rather than broader denominational structures. Hey, we could become more polarized, more divided. I look, I think the any apparent apparent appearance of unity in the past was all an illusion. I think it was all fraudulent. I think it appeared to be this way, but everybody in the church was still fighting for their own individualistic way. There was still polarization, there was still fragmentation, and and it just looks good until people like I don't like this, and I don't like that, Okay, just go and then they'll go find a group that they agree with until they disagree with that group. I think now it's just going to be even more prominent.

1:00:43 It's gonna be more, it's gonna be it's gonna be even greater. Maybe we'll see even greater fragmented, more fragmented, maybe even more polarization, more even more individualistic, more groups. We'll have more groups, not less groups, but there is that potential for polarization is real, all right. And then the last suggestion or last prediction AI made is the revitalization opportunities for churches. Churches that embrace technology, acknowledge societal disillusionment with institutions, and address individual spiritual needs might reclaim some of the disengaged population. This can include interactive Bible study, sermon podcast, and a stronger online presence. The church should have been the one leading the online presence. The church should have been like, wait, we can broadcast live on the internet. Wait, we can upload audio to the internet.

1:01:47 All right, guys, let's do this. But the church was like, oh no, do do doo do dooom because why they want people? And I do understand because the more you do things offline are the more things you do online and away from the institutionalized building the church. The fear is people won't come to the church. They don't come to the church, they don't give money. They don't give money. The church can't pay and keep up with all because it takes a lot of money to run a church. We've talked about it before. Think of how much money it takes to keep a church operating per year just whatever church you go to, just ask what is our yearly operating budget? How much goes for building materials for this activity? Just look and just consider what one individual with a microphone sitting in a room with a laptop, how much content they can produce versus what the church is producing for the money that We've talked about this so much, and it's ridiculous. Many churches have a budget of like a million dollars a year. Even if you go with a five hundred thousand dollars a year budget, do you know what one individual with a microphone and a laptop could produce for five hundred thousand dollars in a year. For five hundred thousand dollars in a year, ladies and gentlemen, I'll give you eight hours a day

1:03:20 of content. I'll broadcast. I'll broadcast eight hours for five hundred thousand dollars. I will broadcast eight hours Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I won't even take a stinking For five hundred thousand dollars a year, I'll broadcast so much that you call me begging me to stop. For five hundred thousand dollars a year, I'll drive to your house like door dash and preach the sermon on your front doorstep. Look how much money it takes to operate a church, and look at what you get. Hey, uttered down, politically correct or church correct sermon. You gotta color within the line. Don't offend that person, don't offend. Don't say this because you're gonna take them off and they're gonna leave, and they're gonna. Oh, I gotta make sure we do that because we got Oh, we gotta make sure we bring Now, we gotta talk up.

1:04:15 We're gonna we're gonna disguise it as evangelism. We need to win people to Christ. Oh, we know, you need more people to come into the building so we can keep paying these bills. That's what we need. I think churches were hesitant because they they got to maintain the status quo. We we don't want to do too much outside of the church. But there's always been people that have. So I asked Ai. I said, okay, so what's the conclusion here? So those were AI's predictions. We need either we will see an increase in hybrid faith practices or that's what we need to do. We're going to see a growth of digital spiritual communities. We're going to see more and more people form communities online, not inside an institutionalized building. We're going to see an increased demand for people wanting philological content. We're going to see probably more polarization, more disunity, more division, and a more diverse philological concepts arising.

1:05:27 And we do see the possible opportunities for churches to do something about this, but I feel like church is so far behind now that you know they're going to come up with something that's going to be like, what are you talking about? We did that twenty years ago? But all right, So then I said, okay, AI, give me the conclusion. Here was the conclusion. I quote, the future of religion in America appears to be moving towards a more individualized, digital, and decentralized model. While traditional church attendance may decline, people are not necessarily abandoning faith. Instead, they're reimagining how they engage with spirituality, using modern tools like podcast and personal Bible study to navigate their religious journey.

1:06:10 Institutions that adapt to these changes may find opportunities for renewed relevance and growth. And this is why I would tell the sermon audio. You gotta be the podcasting hub. You've got to come up with all the tools that all the good podcasting apps have, notifications, this, all the different things that you've got to be creating. And now they're doing that with the collections. I think that's good these, you know, putting together content so that people can find it.

1:06:53 I do think they need to change their sermon audio radio. I still think they need like a host there guiding people. Hey, the next five sermons are going to be dealing with this subject, and the next two sermons are going to be dealing with this and guiding people through it. Curated content, helping people find it and discover it. Not just say hey, we've got a billion sermons available. Now you've got to go find them, help them discover people are looking for the content. You're going to make it easy and accessible. Create play like the collections, create basically playlist, curated playlist.

1:07:35 Here's five sermons on this, here's ten sermons on this, here's twin and let it be known that we're offering these and they may come from diverse different perspectives, and I think that's what people want. Oh, there we go, looking at the present trying to figure out the future. Bible sells way up, Golden age of Bible publishing, Church attendance going down, podcast religious podcasts listening way up. Something's happening.

1:08:16 What do you think it is? Thank you for listening. Everyone, have a great day. God bless