Feb. 19, 2025

The Church and $80,000

The Church and $80,000

A discussion about church and money

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A discussion about church and money

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone.

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It is Tuesday, February eighteenth, twenty twenty five. It is

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currently five twenty nine pm Central Time, and I am

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coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located

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right here in Abilene, Texas. Eighty thousand dollars per year,

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eighty thousand dollars per year. Now, I don't know what

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you think about that. Like, if you were trying to

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get a job and they offered you to pay you

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eighty thousand dollars per year? Would you think that was good?

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Would you think that was bad? Would you take it?

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Would you turn it down? How would you perceive eighty

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thousand dollars per year? How would you process that? Good? Bad?

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What do you think?

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Now?

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Now let me now change it up.

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What do you think about someone being a pastor making

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eighty thousand dollars per year? Does that change your perception

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at all? Does that impact you in any way? Are

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you like, no, eighty thousand dollars you would see it

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the exact same way or does it begin to make

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you start questioning?

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I don't know the entire this entire.

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Institution we call the church. Would it start impacting your

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perspective in any way, shape or form. Now, we just

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the other day we did a broadcast. What we talked

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about ten secrets your pastor doesn't want you to know

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about the church. And one of the things that person

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criticized the church for is that, Hey, look, whether anyone

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wants to admit it or not, the church is a business.

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We can try to pretend that it's not, but it

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is a business. And we talked a little bit about that. Well,

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today I heard something well that brought the eighty thousand

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dollars per year number right to the forefront.

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And while it added well.

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To me, it adds to our discussion about well, the

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church being a business.

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Here's what happened now.

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Earlier this morning, I was listening to you know, I

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was listening to the different chapel services, and in the

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middle of one Ambassador Baptist College chapel service, I snuck

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out of chapel And while I did a broadcast about grace.

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I think that was a very important one. Hopefully it's

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led to some good discussions on your side of things.

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Hopefully you've been thinking about it all day because that's

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a very important discussion about the nature of grace.

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Okay, so please go have that.

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But as that ended, I had a little bit more

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time to listen to some things, and I ended up

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at I think it was fair Haven Baptist Church and College,

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fair Haven Baptist Church and College. I think it was

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like a chapel service for maybe for the college. It

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may have been a chapel service. I didn't get to

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hear the beginning or the end, but I heard just

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like about just a couple of minutes of it when

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I was doing other things, and the person was talking

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about this young man who had called to ministry, gone

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to Bible College, and he was trying to get his

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first job at his first church, and they were excited

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to recommend him or whoever he was telling the story about.

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I think this story went basically, they were recommending him,

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but they were kind of depressed and they were kind

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of sad when they heard what happened. Because the young

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man was offered a job eighty thousans or a Yeah,

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he was offered a job, but he turned it down.

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This is how the story went.

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He turned it down, and when they asked him, why

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did you turn it down is because he was expecting

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at least eighty thousand dollars per year, plus housing and

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a car allowance. So it's his first opportunity in the ministry.

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But he's like, no, if I can't make eighty thousand

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dollars per year, have a housing and a car of

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some sort, some kind of car allowance, I'm not going

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to tell the job. And they were talking about well,

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you know, pastors thinking too much about themselves or whatever,

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and they had their own point they were going to make.

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But all I could get around was the eighty thousand,

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eighty thousand, eighty thousand, eighty thousand, because to me, it

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brought to mind many other questions. Right, and we've talked

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about this before, but I want to return to it.

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So here was a young man who wanted to go

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into ministry, who was offered a job. They were going

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to pay him less than eighty.

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Thousand dollars a year.

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I don't know if they had a house or a

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car allowance that was added to what they were going

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to give him, but it didn't come out to eighty

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thousand plus these additional benefits, so he turned it down.

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Now a lot of times the people sitting in the

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pew will say, well, he's not committed to God, and you.

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Know they will do a lot of criticizing it.

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Well, it's good for you with your job and you

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have everything you have to criticize the person who's going

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into ministry, Well, I don't know, because they want a

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place to live and be able to pay their bills

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and be able to live. So it's really sometimes people

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have very drastically different perspectives.

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I want to make this very clear.

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This episode is not about me saying should a pastor

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turn down a job if it's not eighty thousand dollars?

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Is that right? Is that wrong?

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Is that ungodly? Is that spiritual? Unspiritual? How should the

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people sitting in the pewfill about it? Should they offer

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more money? Like, I'm not here to get into that discussion.

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That we could do a podcast episode and all of that,

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and we could look at it from a lot of

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different perspectives. For me, I heard eighty thousand dollars a year,

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and immediately you probably know where my mind went. Okay,

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So if a church is paying a pastor eighty thousand

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dollars a year, or if they're paying a pastor seventy

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thousand dollars a year or sixty thousand or fifty thousand.

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That means a good portion of the money coming in

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to just keep the church operating goes directly to pay

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a pastor's salary. If you're paying a pastor fifty thousand,

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sixty thousand, seventy thousand, eighty thousand, ninety thousand, or even

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one hundred thousand, depending on the size of the church,

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how much of the budget just simply pays his salary.

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And then I started asking the question, you know what,

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I'm getting ready to say, Well, see what are the

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people sitting in the pew getting for fifty thousand, sixty thousand,

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seventy thousand, eighty thousand, one hundred thousand dollars a year?

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What are they actually getting? How many sermons a year

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does that even represent?

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What does that break.

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Down to to the cost per sermon? What is the

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quality of the teaching? What is the quantity of the teaching?

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If teaching is the primary thing. Now, again, if you're

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a sacramental church, well then you're paying for that pastor

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to be ordained so that he then has the spiritual

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authority to administer the sacraments, which you drastically need for

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your Christian line. But if you're not a sacri mental church,

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then the only thing that pastor can really offer other

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than maybe some counsel, right, I guess he could hang

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out and be your friend, but for the most part,

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you are paying him to provide you teaching from the

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Word of God. Well, how much teaching are you getting

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for sixty seventy eighty thousand dollars a year? So I

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started looking up and trying to.

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Do a little research.

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From what we can tell from the latest statistics as

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of January twenty twenty five, average sermon average pastors, their

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average salary per pastor is around about sixty thousand. I'm

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kind of rounding it, rounding it to just a specific number.

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I think it's maybe just slightly lower, but it's about

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sixty thousand dollars per year is what the average pastor

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makes in the United States. I didn't look globally, just

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in the United States usually though. Added to that sixty

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thousand is housing and a car allowance and maybe some

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other things. So in reality that sixty thousand is actually

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a little more when you add the additional benefits that

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they may they may receive and depending on the church.

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Maybe they receive some kind of health benefits, who know,

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sometimes they don't, but there's other benefits. So it's actually

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more than sixty thousand. So and this is crazy. Churches

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in the United States allocate a significant portion of their

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budgets to pastoral and staff salaries. On average, approximately forty

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five to fifty two percent of a church's budget is

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dedicated to compensation alone. So about fifty percent, maybe even

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more than fifty percent, of all the money that comes in,

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and when the people are putting that money in the

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offering plate or they're sending it via their bank account,

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over fifty percent just goes to southes. That's it.

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Fifty Now, pastors can stand up behind the.

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Pulpit and say, you need to give to show your

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love for God, and you need to be a good

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steward of the money you give, and you give your

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tithes and offerings to God, and you do it for God,

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and you do it for God, and about fifty percent

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of what you're putting in that offering plate is coming

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into my pocket. That would be more genuine, right, Not

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that you're doing it for God. You're ultimately doing it

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for me and guess what. The people in the congregation

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know they're doing it for him. So, in a roundabout way,

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we pay your salary, you work for us. Whether it's

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ever explicitly stated, everyone kind of knows the game over.

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In some cases, over fifty percent of the budget just

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goes for his salary.

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That's that's crazy.

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And again I would say, what are you getting for that?

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What are you getting for that? What are you getting

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for eighty.

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Thousand, seventy thousand?

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Now, now I did some and this was from church

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salary dot Com. I looked at a number of different

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places also utilized AI. Given this, if a church spends

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between sixty thousand to seventy thousand annually on a pastor's salary,

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it suggests that the church's total annual operating budget would

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be somewhere between one hundred and fifteen thousand and one

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hundred and fifty five thousand.

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That means, on average, for a church.

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Just to stay open, just for operating costs, you're gonna

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pay one hundred and fifteen thousand to one hundred and

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fifty five thousand just to keep the church operating.

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That's all you're doing.

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All that money is coming in just to keep the building,

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just to keep the people employed.

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That's all you're doing.

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That's all the money. You forget going to God, forget

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furthering the Kingdom of God, all the stuff that we

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wrap it all up in and try to make it. Oh,

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we're doing this for this reason. We're doing that, We're

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going to reach the law. You're just doing it to

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keep the building operating and to have someone actually working there,

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called a pastor or a youth pastor, or an associate

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pastor or anything along those lines.

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Just think about that one.

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Hundred and fifty five thousand dollars a year to keep

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a church operating. Now you can just consider your church.

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Let's say your church is taking one hundred and fifty

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five thousand to operate. I want you to consider the

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quantity and the quality of teaching you are receiving for

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one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars. I want you

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to consider the quality and the quantity of teaching you're

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receiving for one hundred and fifteen thousand. If we go

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in the lower end. Beyond salaries, churches incur various operational expenses. Typically,

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facilities and operations account for twenty to thirty percent, so

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if fifty percent, around fifty percent is just a pastor's salary, well,

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then you go almost up to thirty percent for everything else.

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That's sixty seventy eighty percent.

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I had, you know, I had to count it out.

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I know you're you're laughing at me.

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It's math about eighty percent then of the total budget

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just goes to salaries and the building, for crying out loud,

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eighty percent.

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Just to keep the building going.

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If you then if you had covering costs such as mortgage, rent, utilities, maintenance,

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and insurance would be added in that. You know about

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thirty percent. Program expenses, including funds allocated for ministries like

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children's ministries, youth ministry, and adult programs, constitute around ten

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percent of the budget. So when you finally get to

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actual ministries, when you actually get to you know, teaching

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and maybe materials, you're down to ten percent of your budget.

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Everything else is going to just the building. Everything else

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is just going to someone's salary before you even get

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to an actual ministry, and in many cases those additional ministries.

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Have you ever noticed this. The pastor may be making

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seventy or eighty thousand dollars a year, but in many cases,

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those other ministries, they're being led and taught by people

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not getting paid a dime. They go home, they go

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to work, they go home, and they got to put

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together the Sunday School lesson or the small group lesson.

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They're not getting paid for it. The pastor is getting paid.

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And many cases the pastors don't even teach Sunday school.

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That's always blown my mind.

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The pastor is making seventy eighty thousand dollars a year

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and in many cases you don't even teach Sunday school. Now,

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I've got to go to Sunday school for someone who

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didn't go to Bible College, didn't go to seminary, teaching

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the adult Sunday school class. Now, sometimes maybe the youth

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pastor will be being paid. Sometimes this will be an

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associate pastor who may be teaching the adult Sunday school.

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But depending on how you break the adults down, some

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churches have like fifteen different adult Sunday School classes. Here's

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for people who are seventy. Here's for people with blonde hair.

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Here's people forty. Here's for people who are single. Here

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are people for divorce, here who are divorced. Here are

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the teenagers. Like they have like seventy five Sunday school classrooms.

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I don't know why you have to have all of that.

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You could just put people in the sanctuary, and I

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don't know. The pastor could teach a Sunday school lesson.

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I don't know. Okay, I mean he's getting paid money

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to do so, but no, let's give it over to

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people not getting paid to do so.

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That's just insane.

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So then you're paying the pastor sixty seventy eighty thousand

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dollars a year and then he doesn't even have to

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prepare a Sunday school lesson, and he just got to

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prepare the sermon. And in many cases on Wednesday night

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that don't even show up to do a sermon. They

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may do a fifteen minute devotional. And then you go

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quote unquote a prayer meeting, and in some cases Sunday

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night you don't have church. You break that off into

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small groups. Nobody's even meeting in the building that you're

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spending one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars to keep open.

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You go meet in someone's houses and people's houses with

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people who are not being paid who had to put

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together the lesson where's the pastor the whole structure is broken.

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So so additionally, many churches set as out approximately five

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percent to ten percent of their budgets for savings or

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emergency funds to address unexpected expenses. So you look at that,

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you've now about one hundred percent of the budget. Guess

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what one hundred percent of that budget? Look at if

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you look at it, if you take the that's the average.

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There's always exceptions. None of that even accounts for because

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typically mission giving has to be on top of what

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normally is brought in. So you do You're like, here's

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how much money we need to get the church operating.

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Now, above and.

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Beyond that, we need you guys to give more to missions.

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See we're gonna give this much to get the church going,

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but now we need you to give more to so

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we can do missions. So in many cases, you have

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your budget, you don't really many cases, have any money

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to really help people in need. Many cases, you don't

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have much money left over for outreach, I.

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Mean the whole thing. Like, what is happening all right now? AI?

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Now this is AI? AI said, Well, it took it

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from a number of sources. It gives me one two three, four,

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Like five sources here. It is important to note that

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these percentages can vary based on factors such as congregational side,

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geographic location, and specific ministry priorities. Regular financial assessments and

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strategic planning are essential for churches to ensure their budgets

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aligned with their mission and operational needs. Do you hear

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that regular financial assessments and strategic planning are essential for churches? Wait,

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that sounds like a business. It sounds like a business.

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So I was like, okay, this is already depressing. This

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is already discouraging. All right? Are you ready?

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So for most churches, just.

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To stay open and cover basic operational expenses pastoral salary,

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facility cost, utilities, insurance, and any ministry program, the annual

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cost exceeds one hundred thousand dollars a year.

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Just for a church.

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This is operational cost. One hundred thousand dollars a year.

314
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One hundred thousand dollars a year. That's the operational cost

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for most churches. Some churches the operational cost will be

316
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much higher. Look at their building. Look at their building?

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How big is the building?

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Is it new? Are they still making a mortgage payment?

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Right? Look at the upkeep it will take. Look at

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the sign they have in front of us. Some churches

321
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pay a lot of money just to have their sign.

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Just look at it now, And typically you could when

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you drive by a church, just look at it and say, okay, average,

324
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you can say, maybe that's one hundred and fifty thousand

325
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to keep that going. Maybe that's two hundred thousand. You

326
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can make a pretty fair assessment. Try to be fair.

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Then go home, look up on their website and look

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at how much teaching that comes from that church for

329
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that much money. Forget the quality of it, because that's subjective.

330
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The quantity is not subjective. That is an objective standard.

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Smaller churches may operate on a lower budget, sometimes around

332
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fifty thousand to one hundred thousand, but many midside churches

333
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typically require at least one hundred and fifty to two

334
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hundred and fifty thousand per year, and a larger church

335
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can easily surpass five hundred thousand to several million dollars

336
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annually just to operate. So AI then broke down some

337
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of the key factors pastoral and staff salaries about in

338
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most cases over fifty percent of their entire budget building

339
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building expenses is going to be somewhere around thirty percent.

340
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Then your ministry outreach, maybe ministry and outreaches combined you

341
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may get up to fifteen percent if you're lucky maybe,

342
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and then administration, technology and savings five to fifteen percent.

343
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So you really have to kind of put that with

344
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the building expenses. If you're going to take administration and technology,

345
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that's really going with building and everything. Maybe that goes

346
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with ministry outreach. But so again you can just see

347
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the breakdown. It says even churches that own their buildings

348
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outright still faces maintenance, utilities and insurance costs, making it

349
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difficult to operate on a much lower budget. So then

350
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AI asked me, do you want to cost analysis benefit

351
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I'm like, yeah, give me, give me the cost analysis benefit.

352
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Right, This is what AI says. A cost benefit analysis.

353
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Of churches based on their annual operating expenses versus the

354
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quantity and quality of teaching they provide could lead to

355
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the following conclusions. Here are some key considerations. Many churches

356
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operate somewhere between one hundred thousand and one hundred, well

357
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between one hundred thousand and five hundred thousand, maybe even

358
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up to a million per year to operate depending on

359
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the size of the church. As we've already stated, a

360
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significant portion of that budget goes to the salary itself

361
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of the pastor then you have facility costs, etc.

362
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Right, as we've.

363
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Already broke broken down now benefit perspective teaching quality and quantity.

364
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The quality of teaching varies greatly. Some churches may provide

365
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rich biblical exposition, while others focus on entertainment driven and

366
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surface level messages. The actual quantity of teaching is often limited.

367
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Weekly sermon somewhere between thirty to forty five minutes. Thirty

368
00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:23.039
to forty five minutes is the average length.

369
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You just think you're paying this.

370
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Guy fifty sixty seventy eighty ninety one hundred thousand dollars

371
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.720
and he's going to deliver you a thirty or forty

372
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five minutes sermon on a Sunday. I'm sorry, what what

373
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:42.440
is that? What is that? What do you know? What

374
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is that? And just remember in the Catholic system that

375
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would make some kind of sense, right because he has

376
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the authority of the church to interpret scripture, where you,

377
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.720
the person sitting in the view, you don't have that authority.

378
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And he has the authority to administer the sacraments, which

379
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.079
you do not, so you can understand why you're paying him,

380
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.599
even if his homily is only fifteen to twenty minutes.

381
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He's the one who can do it.

382
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You can't. But in the Protestant world, where you pay

383
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.920
the pastor makes this much money, right, Yet the people

384
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.039
in the pew can say disagree, disagree.

385
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.160
You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. I'm going

386
00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:18.920
to another church.

387
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:21.319
Well, then what's the point of even paying a pastor

388
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.240
when you can just sit there and telling that he's wrong.

389
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:25.359
Why are you paying him?

390
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.359
You're not paying him because you think he's an expert.

391
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.799
You're the one judging the expert, so you're actually the expert.

392
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.240
You should be saying you should pay me, because I'm

393
00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:36.400
the one telling you if you're preaching is right or wrong.

394
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:43.079
The people on the pew should demand money. Right, the

395
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:45.839
whole system is messed up. But thirty to forty five

396
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:50.960
minutes sermon occasional Bible studies and small groups. But remember

397
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.920
in many cases, the Bible studies and the small groups

398
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.359
many cases are led by not anyone unpaid staff, meaning

399
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.480
that despite the high cost, are you ready to listen

400
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:08.359
to this. Despite the high cost, actual formal biblical teaching

401
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:16.400
may be quite low. What the hours actually given two?

402
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.839
Actual formal biblical teaching from the person you're paying money

403
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.319
to may actually be very low. How do people in

404
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.960
churches not go in a minute, this seems kind of

405
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.279
messed up. We're paying all of this money to keep

406
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.000
this building going, We're paying all this money to hire

407
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.799
this guy, and his actual teaching amounts to Basically I

408
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.400
could get more listening to a sermon on the way

409
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:52.319
to church. Okay, it says, online resources, sermons, podcast theology

410
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:58.559
courses are often free, and they're always far cheaper. Raising

411
00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:02.039
the question is the teaching provided by a local church

412
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:08.480
worth the financial overhead? I did not write that a

413
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:13.039
I said that. Okay, let me let me let me

414
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:17.559
let me tell you what AI said. Okay, is the

415
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:22.200
teaching provided by a local church worth the financial overhead?

416
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:23.119
Ask a question? I said?

417
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.160
It said? It asked the following question, is the teaching

418
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:30.200
provided by a local church worth the financial overhead? Is it?

419
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:35.799
We're I'm gonna say absolutely not. And I used to

420
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.759
complain about this years ago, when I was like, pastors,

421
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.359
you've got the technology. This is way back. I mean

422
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.519
you're talking like early two thousands. I mean like early

423
00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:49.599
two thousands, because we were a little church in the

424
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:51.920
middle of nowhere. I was not getting a dime. I

425
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.720
was not making a penny, right, I refused any money

426
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.640
from the church, and we were I was producing for

427
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.960
hours of content a week just at the church. I

428
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.480
taught Sunday school an hour. I taught Sunday morning an hour.

429
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.599
I taught Sunday night an hour. I taught Wednesday night

430
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.400
an hour. I was full time military, a full time student,

431
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.880
still producing four hours a week of teaching.

432
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:17.839
Oh and guess what else I was doing.

433
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:21.160
I always recording hour after hour after hour after hour

434
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.359
of what yet wasn't called podcasts, but I was broadcasting,

435
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:31.279
and I wasn't making a dime. And then there's these

436
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.880
other churches where the pastor's making eighty thousand dollars a

437
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.839
year and was barely putting together two hours of content

438
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:37.240
a week.

439
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:39.759
And back then I even had phone calls from pastors.

440
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.759
How do you do that?

441
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.160
Many hours of teaching a week?

442
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.480
How do you do that? What do you mean how

443
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:46.839
do you do that? You wanted to be a pastor?

444
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.319
Why wouldn't you want to preach every chance you got,

445
00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:54.599
and you're taking the money from the church and you're

446
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.359
giving them two hours a week of teaching. You don't

447
00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:59.880
feel a little bit broken, a little guilty about that.

448
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.240
What I mean Now, again, if you're a sacramental church,

449
00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:09.200
then this doesn't apply to you because you're getting paid

450
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.680
to provide the sacraments. You're getting and especially if you

451
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.839
believe in a magisterial authority, you have the magisterial authority

452
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:19.640
to interpret the scriptures, which the people in the pew don't. Okay,

453
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.319
that's in the Catholic system, but in the Protestant system,

454
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:30.599
especially a non sacramental Protestant system. But even AI is like,

455
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.279
wait a minute, this raises the question is the teaching

456
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.880
provided by a local church worth the financial overhead? So

457
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.880
then AI says, if a church spends about one hundred

458
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.279
and fifty thousand per year and offers one hour of

459
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.160
teaching per week, that equates to are you ready? So

460
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.119
if they just do one hour of teaching, are you ready?

461
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.559
If you do one hour of teaching and it's costing

462
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.160
the church around one hundred and fifty thousand per year total,

463
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:59.319
with everything that would be the additional benefits, with everything

464
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:04.559
about one hundred fifty thousand. This would equate to two thousand,

465
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.960
eight hundred and eighty four dollars per teaching hour. That

466
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.279
means that sermon you heard cost you and that church

467
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:20.160
two thousand, eight hundred and eighty four dollars you paid

468
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:23.400
two over almost you paid almost three thousand dollars for

469
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.920
an hour of teaching. Are you out of your ever

470
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.839
living mind. I'm gonna start putting all my content behind

471
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.279
a paywall, and I'm gonna start charging two thousand, eight

472
00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:39.960
hundred and eighty four dollars per podcast hour. Everyone would laugh,

473
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.440
You would mock that, You would say, greedy, ungodly, fleshly

474
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:53.079
of Satan. How dare you? You do realize every time

475
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:56.920
a pastor preaches, if you break down the cost depending

476
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:01.559
on how many hours he's producing, it's cost an average

477
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.440
amount of and we'll break it down a little further.

478
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.440
But if it's just one hour a week, if it's

479
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.400
just a Sunday morning sermon, you're paying about three thousand

480
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:16.640
dollars for that one hour of teaching. That's ridiculous. Now,

481
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:21.000
the average seminary tuition for a master's in Divinity is

482
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:24.079
between ten thy to twenty thousand yet many pastors with

483
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.640
such education still deliver shallow teaching. You know why, because

484
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.759
you go to seminary you'll learn all this stuff, and

485
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:31.519
then you get to the church and people like, I

486
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.039
don't want it to sound like a college campus. I

487
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:36.039
don't want it to sound like a seminary. I don't

488
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.079
want it to sound like a university. I want a

489
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:40.720
thirty minute little devotional. Well, you want a thirty minute

490
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.839
little devotional that's going to cost you around three thousand dollars.

491
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:46.200
And why did I go to seminary spending all of

492
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.559
this money. The whole system is broken, ladies and gentlemen,

493
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.359
When are we going to acknowledge it? The whole thing

494
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:55.799
is broken. We need to burn the entire system to

495
00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:07.359
the ground and start over. And this is what AI says,

496
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:14.079
and this is crazy. AI names sermon audio. AI names

497
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:19.480
sermon audio. AI says online theological education, books, podcast and

498
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:25.400
free resources. Example, sermon audio, it literally names sermon audio

499
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:33.000
provides deeper teaching at a fraction of the cost. It

500
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.839
literally names sermon audio that is fast, that cracks me up.

501
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.640
In other words, you can go online find far better

502
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:46.920
teaching well, obviously, for a fraction of the costs because well,

503
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.039
just for me to produce all the episodes, right all,

504
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.160
I mean you look at all the episodes that produced, right,

505
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.599
I mean we're almost at four thousand episodes for the

506
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:01.119
Theology Central podcast. Four thousand. Now, if you just look

507
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:04.519
at the podcast, we're already we are in a category.

508
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.599
Even AI says, as many podcast episodes as I have produced,

509
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.599
I am in like rare air compared to most all podcasts.

510
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:15.799
Most podcasts never make it to four thousand episodes, right,

511
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.880
We're almost at four thousand, but four that's over four

512
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:25.839
thousand hours of teaching. That's easily over four thousand hours

513
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:27.759
of teaching because most of the time I go over

514
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:35.000
an hour over four thousand hours of teaching. And if

515
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.720
you look at the total cost to produce that one

516
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:42.720
year to keep your church operating, I've given I could

517
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.720
give you. I could give you eight thousand hours of

518
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:50.039
teaching for what your church costs to just have a

519
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:51.440
building for one year.

520
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:55.960
And that's just not me.

521
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:59.200
Anyone with a microphone and a laptop and an internet

522
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.119
connection with and you just named the platform, Oh, they

523
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.559
got to pay to be on that platform. We have

524
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.559
to pay to be on the platforms that we are on.

525
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:10.039
It cost us money, but the cost for me to

526
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:10.559
do it.

527
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:14.400
Give me a break.

528
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.480
You're gonna pay all this money to keep the building operating.

529
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:23.079
This is crazy. For the price it takes to keep

530
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:28.480
the church operating for one year could literally pay off

531
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:35.640
my entire mortgage and allow me to do home improvements. Okay,

532
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:39.000
fix some things up, and I would be set for

533
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.720
the rest of my life and be able to broadcast

534
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.000
five hours a day. I mean, come on, for what

535
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.599
it would take to keep a church going for one year,

536
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:57.640
it is insane to see the difference. So AI says,

537
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:04.480
maybe maybe this causes us to consider some alternative models.

538
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:09.920
A I suggest maybe house churches or smaller gatherings can

539
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:15.160
drastically cut costs while maintaining strong biblical teaching. Maybe you

540
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.720
wipe wipe out the whole overhead.

541
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.720
And you do something smaller. Not to do something smaller.

542
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:24.039
Now the pastor has to give up his dream of

543
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.720
standing in that pulpit in a sanctuary of five hundred people,

544
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.240
because most pastors have some kind of a dream, like

545
00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:36.880
you stand up there, you open your Bible. There's all

546
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:41.039
these people hungry, they're excited for the word of God,

547
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:43.119
and you preach and they're like, oh, pastor, that was

548
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:45.359
the greatest thing I've ever heard. You all have a

549
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:48.400
most pastors have some, even if it's not a five hundred,

550
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:51.480
You do have this idea of leading and guiding and

551
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:55.519
spiritually feeding people. So you kind of got you would

552
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.319
have to kind of give that up. And of course

553
00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:59.880
the bigger the church, the more money you make of you.

554
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:05.680
Now AI suggest something here, I know everyone's going to

555
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:12.000
go against. It says what about an online church? It

556
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:17.319
says online churches, theological study groups, and parachurch organizations typically

557
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:23.000
provide richer teaching without the financial burden of maintaining a

558
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:28.680
building and staff. AI goes on to say, from a

559
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:35.160
pure cost benefit perspective, the traditional church model appears financially

560
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:42.720
inefficient for teaching purposes alone. The high operational cost does

561
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.279
not translate into better or more teaching. If a church

562
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:53.279
does not provide deep, transformative, philologically sound teaching, the financial

563
00:33:53.319 --> 00:34:04.720
burden is not justified if one values in person fellowship

564
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.679
quote unquote pastoral care, which is, you know, call the

565
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:11.559
pastor and he better tell me what I want to say,

566
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:12.880
because if he doesn't say it, I'll just go to

567
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.039
a different church. Okay, all right, yeah, I'm very jaded

568
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:20.119
on that. Community programs, missionary work. Those factors may then

569
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:23.719
justify the costs beyond just teaching. But please note in

570
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.639
person fellowship, so a lot of people are paying that money.

571
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.559
In many cases, they don't really care about the teaching.

572
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.800
They like the potluck, the picnic, the I don't know,

573
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.440
get together for this, get together for that, sit set

574
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.159
around a circle and seeing kumbaya. I'll have a coke

575
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:44.719
and a smile, hold hands, hum, I don't know. They

576
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:49.119
like all of those things. A church, softball team, a church,

577
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.039
this a church. They like to get together, get together

578
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.960
because I can't live my Christian life alone. Okay, whatever

579
00:34:56.039 --> 00:35:00.639
the case may be. All Right, that's still a lot

580
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.559
of money for that, it says, But strictly as an

581
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:14.079
educational investment, alternative methods provide higher quality teaching, greater quantity

582
00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:22.119
at a much lower cost, it says. If a church

583
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.800
operates with an annual budget of say one hundred and

584
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:28.840
fifty thousand, and provides three hours of sermons per week,

585
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.360
then basically what you're paying, you're paying almost one thousand

586
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:34.480
dollars per teaching hour.

587
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.559
So even if your church provides three hours. Even if

588
00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:40.760
it provides.

589
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:48.320
Three hours, you're paying one thousand dollars per hour. You're

590
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.920
paying one thousand dollars per hour. If I received one

591
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.679
thousand dollars per hour for the amount of hours I

592
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:04.159
produce in a week, not only could I make my

593
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:09.239
mortgage payment, I could I could be buying things that

594
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:12.519
I want. I could be paying for home improvement. I

595
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.639
could be I could be doing Because you I, in

596
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:18.320
many cases I produce over an hour per day, some

597
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:21.239
cases two hours a day, sometimes three. I think of

598
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.079
how many hours I produce in a week if I

599
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:28.519
was being paid one thousand dollars per hour. And it's

600
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:31.360
so weird because people will be like, I gotta go

601
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:33.760
to this building, and I gotta give this money to

602
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:36.719
keep this building operating. But if I really want to

603
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.639
be spiritually fed, if I really want to be spiritually trained,

604
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:42.159
if I want to be spiritually challenged, I'm gonna actually

605
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:45.480
listen to something online. But I'm gonna give all my

606
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:47.719
money here. I'm gonna give all my money here. But

607
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.840
I gotta really go here because whatever the case may be,

608
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:53.239
I'm not getting spiritually fed or there's just not that

609
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.679
much feeding to be happening. But so I'm gonna give

610
00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.719
them my money. I'm gonna go here to get all

611
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.320
the benefits, but I'm going to give them all. I'm

612
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.039
gonna take the benefits from these people, but those people

613
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:10.519
get the benefit get the money. I get the benefit

614
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:13.960
from their teaching, but they get the benefit of my money,

615
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:17.440
my attendance, my engagement, my volunteering.

616
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:27.440
The system is broken, ladies and gentlemen. The system is

617
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:29.199
seriously broken.

618
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.960
And what drives me crazy it's just even churches and

619
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.599
their online presence. Okay, So there was a church the

620
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:37.280
other day.

621
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:38.760
I don't even know what day it was.

622
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:41.400
May have been Sunday, No, it may have been Saturday.

623
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.280
I think it was Saturday. I think it was Saturday.

624
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:46.280
They did a message.

625
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.360
On sweet words nonsweet words, something about sweet words, right, okay,

626
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:53.559
And so they did it for their live I guess

627
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:55.360
it was a Saturday service. I don't know what they

628
00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:58.480
were doing. It's now Tuesday.

629
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:03.320
They've not even uploaded it yet. They've not even uploaded

630
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:03.719
it yet.

631
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.880
So in many cases, these churches, even if they provide teaching,

632
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.760
they don't upload it yet. You say, well, what's the

633
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:10.079
significance of that? Now?

634
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:10.639
Wait, a minute.

635
00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:13.679
Just think about this, and every church, A lot of

636
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:17.480
people don't consider this. And every church you have all

637
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:24.440
kinds of volunteers, nursery workers, Sunday school teachers. They are

638
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:29.280
not in the service. They're not in the service. They're

639
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:32.639
missing hour after hour after hour of teaching. They come

640
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:36.800
to church to volunteer, so they're working the nursery, they're

641
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:38.960
doing this, they're doing that, they don't hear any of

642
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.079
the teaching, and then that church doesn't bother to upload

643
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.400
their messages. I don't know, like fifteen minutes after they

644
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:50.000
should be uploading it as soon as possible. I do

645
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.519
understand things happen, but there are at least three messages

646
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:55.599
right now that I heard. I think Saturday may have

647
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.800
been Friday of last week. They still haven't even been uploaded,

648
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.920
and it's Tuesday. So guess what. The people who were

649
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.719
there Sunday who didn't hear it, or their Saturday and

650
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:07.960
didn't hear it, guess what. They still haven't even heard

651
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.639
the message from their own church, which they're dedicating their

652
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:14.440
time and most likely giving their money to keep that

653
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:15.480
church operating.

654
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:18.079
And then that church can't be bothered to give their

655
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:18.840
people the.

656
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.519
Messages so that they can actually learn. But they got

657
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:26.800
no problem taking those people's time and taking their money. Hey,

658
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:29.320
I'll take your money. I'll take your time. But hey,

659
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.559
we're don't really care if you get teaching, because you

660
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:33.880
can go get teaching from someone else. But keep giving

661
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.599
us your money, because you've got to bring the money

662
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:38.199
into the storehouse of the Lord.

663
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:39.840
It's got to be the local church.

664
00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:41.800
You give me the money, you can go get the

665
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.320
teaching somewhere else. I remember the big, the big Assemblies

666
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:48.239
of God church here in Abilene, that's right off the

667
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.480
Winter's Freeway. I remember that that pastor had been kept

668
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.119
being asked by people in the church. I want I

669
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:58.559
want something more in depth. I want some I want

670
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.960
and his recip I wish I had the audio. It's

671
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.840
not my job to feed you. If you want something deeper,

672
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:14.320
if you do it on your own. And I was like, yeah,

673
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:15.639
but how much are you paying.

674
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:17.199
Him per year? How much?

675
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:22.840
So they were listening to other people online, of course,

676
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:24.920
so they were giving their money their time, And the

677
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:27.119
one person I knew who attended that church was a

678
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:30.880
part of the worship band, giving their time, dedicating their time,

679
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:34.199
showing up for rehearsals, doing all of that to ensure

680
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.360
that the church had everything they need. But the church

681
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:40.599
didn't feel like they had a responsibility. And I heard

682
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:44.039
the teaching from that church, even from a charismatic perspective,

683
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:45.840
I thought it was bad.

684
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:48.599
As far as its depth concern.

685
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:50.239
I thought it was bad because of its care of

686
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:54.840
its theology, but from its basic just the depth, there

687
00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:00.119
was no depth. It was shallow. I had Ai if

688
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:04.840
you analyze a sermon just before I went live from

689
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.440
a charismatic church, and it talked about it being shallow,

690
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.440
not going in depth. And it's like, so when AI

691
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.519
looks at a sermon like this is shallow, this is

692
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.199
when AI is criticizing the depth of the teaching. Then

693
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:18.719
for crying all up, AI takes it and says, this

694
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:21.880
is not going in depth. But people are paying what

695
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:26.639
one thousand dollars per teaching hour, three thousand dollars per

696
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:37.960
teaching hour, two thousand dollars per teaching hour. Can you

697
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.559
imagine if you set your kids to a private school,

698
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.159
right and you're paying a certain amount of money for

699
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.360
the tuition for them to go there, and you found

700
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.800
out that they're only being taught maybe one or two

701
00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:56.840
hours a week, and the teaching is kind of a joke.

702
00:41:57.199 --> 00:41:59.840
It's not in depth, and your kids don't know anything.

703
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:07.199
They can't read, they're historically illiterate, they're geographically illiterate, mathematically illiterate,

704
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:09.760
they don't know anything. You'd be like, why are we

705
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:12.840
paying all this money to send our kids to this school? Well,

706
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:14.920
you should be asking why are you paying all this

707
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:18.679
money to keep your church operating? And yet you have

708
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:27.840
to rely on everything else for you to really get taught.

709
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.440
I know it sounds like this is about me, it's

710
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:35.559
not about my podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, there is a

711
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:40.559
round two million Christian podcasts out there depending. That's what

712
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:43.760
the Edifi podcast app I know. Now it's kind of obsolete.

713
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:46.400
It didn't last very long, but they had calculated I

714
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.800
think two million Christian podcasts two million. Now, I don't

715
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:52.519
know if that number is accurate, but that's what they

716
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.039
calculated it as. I'm not quoting, I'm just not making

717
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:58.239
up a number. Well, let's say there's a million Christian

718
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:04.960
podcast out there putting content out content, content, content, content, content, content,

719
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:10.679
content content, content, Bible teaching, devotional messages, cultural commentary, this

720
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.679
this philological discussions, church history, this philosophy, going on on

721
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:19.679
on on all this content, and they're all doing it

722
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:25.000
at a fraction of the cost that it keeps to

723
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:30.880
keep a church, just to pay a pastor's salary. If

724
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.000
you're paying sixty thousand dollars a year for a pastor's salary,

725
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:40.360
sixty thousand, that's on the low end.

726
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:41.719
Remember that one.

727
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:44.360
This all started because this young man was like, if

728
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.800
I don't get make at least eighty thousand with the

729
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:50.599
housing allowed, Like eighty thousand was his starting point. Well,

730
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:58.079
let's say it's eighty thousand. Do you realize eighty thousand dollars,

731
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.800
just just if I took no money for myself, no

732
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.039
money going to my house, no money, eighty thousand dollars

733
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:11.400
would pay for this podcast to operate for basically forty

734
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.360
to fifty I don't even know. I don't even know.

735
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.840
I would have to do the math it probably forever.

736
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:21.400
Eighty thousand dollars would cover the cost of this podcast

737
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.840
for literally life. And that's if I wasn't my age

738
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.159
now where I you know, probably dead within ten years,

739
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.480
nine years, however many years I've got left. I think

740
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.880
I calculated that I probably have nine left. If I

741
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.400
have nine left, okay, then I'm dead and nine I

742
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:37.599
know that's kind of a morbid and probably cynical. But

743
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.599
if I have nine left, okay, obviously it covers.

744
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:44.920
It for nine. But if I was twenty and I

745
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:46.360
got that much money.

746
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.519
I would the podcast would be paid for forever, ever,

747
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.960
the entire life of the of the person broadcasting or

748
00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:59.119
the church. By the next year, you got to have

749
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:06.159
the same amount of money just to pay the pastor's salary.

750
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:10.039
Now you say, well, what if a podcaster wanted a salary, Well, yeah, yeah,

751
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.079
now you could get back into the same situation. You could.

752
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:21.599
But the difference is the difference is the pastor the pastor.

753
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:24.840
We've got pencils rolling off the desk here.

754
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:26.800
You've got pastors.

755
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:30.320
To operate the church that they have to do all

756
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.519
of these other responsibilities. So maybe that salary would require

757
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.440
more than a podcaster. But even if a podcaster, even

758
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.320
if a podcaster got a salary, even if the podcaster

759
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:43.239
wanted a salary of eighty thousand, right, even if he

760
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.880
wanted that, you still wouldn't have all the other overhead

761
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:47.920
and all the other costs, which can bring it up

762
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:50.960
to almost one hundred and fifty five thousand. So I

763
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.480
guess what I'm saying is eighty thousand could probably give

764
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.159
a podcaster not only a salary, it could also probably

765
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:01.679
basically keep that podcast on the air force forever. Where

766
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:05.000
a church, eighty thousand just gets you to the next year,

767
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:09.239
just gets you, just gives you twelve months and that.

768
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.440
And just think that eighty thousand does not have anything

769
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:17.920
to that doesn't even cover technology, recording, sermons, uploading, that's

770
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:27.559
just the man's salary. So all right, there you have it.

771
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:32.360
Eighty thousand dollars. That was from and again I don't

772
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:37.559
think it's been uploaded yet. I've been looking. I think

773
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:38.760
where's my notes?

774
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:44.000
Yeah, that's from Fairhaven Baptist Church and College. The sermon

775
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.880
has not been uploaded yet as when I went live.

776
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:48.960
You can be looking for them on the sermon's two

777
00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:51.159
point oh out, look for the one that's uploaded today,

778
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:53.400
and then you can try to find that illustration about

779
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:54.320
the eighty thousand dollars.

780
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:56.000
Hopefully I got all the facts straight. I wanted to

781
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:56.960
play the audio.

782
00:46:56.719 --> 00:47:00.639
For you, but they never uploaded it, so I'm like, okay,

783
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:03.239
whenever they get around to it, it'll be too late now,

784
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.000
but you can hear the story.

785
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:07.719
So, this young man was offered a job, he turned

786
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:07.960
it down.

787
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:10.039
They were sad that he turned it down, and why

788
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.559
did he turn it down because he wanted eighty thousand

789
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:17.199
and housing allowance and a car allowance. And they were

790
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.719
obviously kind of criticizing what he did. But for me,

791
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:24.760
that's a whole different subject. The thing is is, so

792
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:27.079
the church has to pay eighty thousand just to have

793
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:31.119
a pastor who may produce two to three hours of

794
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:37.000
teaching a week. I can produce two to three hours

795
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.440
a day, and nobody's sending me eighty thousand dollars. Okay,

796
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:48.519
nobody's sending nothing close. Now, for those who do give,

797
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:51.320
I'm very appreciative because they do. So far, we've got

798
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.719
the cost, the cost of the podcast has been taken

799
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:55.800
care of, and we're very grateful for that. We're very

800
00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:01.840
grateful for that, very grateful for that. But yeah, it's

801
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:06.119
just such a weird, a weird dynamic the way it is.

802
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:08.239
And now some people may feel like, well, I give

803
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:11.239
one hundred thousand to the church, or you know, or

804
00:48:11.480 --> 00:48:13.159
let's say that I give my money to the church.

805
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:15.400
At least I know where it's going, but yeah, you

806
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:18.079
do know where it's going. Over fifty percent of it

807
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:21.000
is going to pay his salary, and you're getting won

808
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.519
in return. It's going to pay to keep electricity on,

809
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.920
the heat on, the the AC on that that's what

810
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.400
you're paying for. You may see where it's going, but

811
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:32.280
where it's going is literally.

812
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:34.039
A building and a person.

813
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:37.239
Almost seventy to eighty percent of the budget's just going

814
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:42.079
to those two things, that building and that person or persons,

815
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:45.679
depending how many people have on the staff, and that

816
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:48.519
will increase then the amount of the budget going to

817
00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:53.920
just people. And then you have to ask yourself how

818
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.679
many hours of the teaching and the church per week

819
00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:59.400
is done by paid staff and how much of it

820
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:05.199
is done by volunteers. I used to teach adult Sunday school,

821
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:06.480
did not get paid.

822
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:07.880
I used to be the.

823
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.679
Youth pastor who taught the youth, did not get paid.

824
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.800
I used to be the singles quote unquote pastor taught

825
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.440
every Sunday for an hour, did not get paid. And

826
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.199
that not only did I teach Sunday morning for an hour,

827
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:22.559
then on Sunday evenings I started doing things like having

828
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:25.159
a class around five o'clock who wanted to come to church.

829
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.320
I was teaching two hours a week and I wasn't

830
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:33.320
getting paid. The pastor taught for one hour on Sunday

831
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.519
and a sermon was only about forty minutes. And in

832
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:39.360
Wednesday he made downe of ten minute devotional, but a

833
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:42.639
ten minute devotional and then we had prayer meeting. So I,

834
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:47.719
as an unpaid volunteer, was teaching at least two hours

835
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:53.639
a week at minimum, and sometimes more. I was teaching

836
00:49:53.639 --> 00:50:00.000
more than the lead pastor. That's a joke, ladies, and Jim,

837
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:12.320
that's a joke. That's a joke. I mean, there's no

838
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.119
words for it. When most of the teaching, and if

839
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:18.239
you look at the church, you had Sunday School, Women's

840
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.360
Sunday School, and all of those Sunday school classes, all

841
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:24.840
of those special classes were taught by people not the pastor,

842
00:50:25.400 --> 00:50:28.679
not on paid staff. So if the majority of the

843
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.280
teaching is done by people not even on paid staff,

844
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:39.400
the system. Yeah, all right, well I'll stop there. I

845
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.360
just had to talk about it, wasn't I know, You're like, well,

846
00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:44.800
it's not really a listen, I know, it not really

847
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.880
a lesson, because well, I had an appointment in the

848
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.440
middle of today and didn't have a chance to do more.

849
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:53.519
But I did do the thing about grace earlier. That

850
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:58.480
was a lesson, okay, and this was more about well,

851
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:00.320
that's what happens when I listened to things on the

852
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:03.679
sermon's two point zero app I've been preoccupied with it

853
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.480
all day. Eighty thousand dollars. Man, I can't imagine if

854
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:09.679
my first, if my well, I mean, it's going to

855
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:11.719
be the only church. I can't imagine if I ever

856
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.119
would have been making eighty thousand dollars a year as

857
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:16.760
a pastor. I don't even know how to process that

858
00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:19.280
in my mind. I don't even know what that would

859
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:24.400
be like. I have no clue. The maximum I have

860
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:27.559
ever made is just my house payment, a house payment

861
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.920
being made per month, which is about one thousand dollars

862
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:33.119
per month. So the maximum I've ever made in twenty

863
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:42.559
something years as a pastor is about twelve thousand dollars. Now,

864
00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:46.559
I'm not complaining about that, not complaining about that, but

865
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.000
I'm just saying I do. The one thing I do

866
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:52.239
know is for that twelve thousand dollars, I've given the

867
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:55.079
church four hours of teaching.

868
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:56.760
A week in the building.

869
00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:58.960
And now when things now, things have changed a little bit,

870
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.119
because you know, basically the church is coming to an end.

871
00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:03.400
But if you look at how many hours I produce

872
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:08.039
each week behind this microphone, you break how much money

873
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:12.039
the cost per hour for them, and you take how

874
00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:15.920
many four I mean, just the Theology Central podcast. I

875
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:18.320
doesn't even go to the things I did before, four

876
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:21.679
thousand hours just the Theology Central podcast. If you go

877
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:25.000
to things I've done before, I mean, I have probably

878
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:29.320
produced and it's probably not even exaggeration, probably between twenty

879
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.719
thirty thousand hours of teaching probably and my entire time,

880
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:36.320
not including all the sermons at church and all the

881
00:52:36.360 --> 00:52:42.199
podcasts I've done. Now, that's not because I'm better or spiritual.

882
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:46.239
That's just because I feel like that the ministry is

883
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:50.880
supposed to be providing, providing, providing, providing, providing, feeding.

884
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.320
Feed the flock, Feed the flock, feed the flock, feed

885
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:54.559
the flock, feed the flock.

886
00:52:54.840 --> 00:53:01.159
Teach, teach, teach, teach, teach, teach, teach, teach.

887
00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:02.440
Challenge, make them think.

888
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:07.760
And I just I came into the ministry at the

889
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:10.280
time where technology was allowing you to be able to

890
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:12.480
do more and more in a lot easier way. But

891
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:14.960
before I even had the technology, I was making cassettes,

892
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:19.760
doing extra hours of teaching and not even in the church.

893
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:26.119
So yeah, I don't get it. But it's almost like

894
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.719
we've kind of fallen into this pattern.

895
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:29.840
Well, the pastor gets paid this much money and we

896
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:33.119
get this much in return, and we're happy with it.

897
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.199
And most of the teaching happens by people not being paid,

898
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:41.079
and everybody's good with the system. That's like running a

899
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:44.960
business and most of the work is being done by

900
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:47.320
people not getting paid.

901
00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:50.679
That it's a weird system.

902
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.440
Now, some people say, well, that's the spirit of ministry,

903
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:57.840
that's the way it should be. Okay, I you may

904
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.880
could have an argument, all right, thanks for listening. I say,

905
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:02.719
burn it all to the ground, burn it all to

906
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:03.800
the ground and start over.

907
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:05.119
I don't know, and I know.

908
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.360
That's easy to say. It's always easy to kind of

909
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:11.000
be like, burn it down. It's easy. It's much different

910
00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:14.719
to then build something back that would would capture it.

911
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:18.000
But it is a fair argument that the church is

912
00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:21.079
a business. And what I've said before is that's never

913
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:23.639
going to change. We just have to be more willing

914
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:27.480
to acknowledge it and say, well, yeah, it's the case.

915
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.159
And hey, guys, when when you give money, I know

916
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.320
we say you're doing it for God, but let me

917
00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:34.360
make it very clear. Over fifty percent of what you

918
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:39.400
give is coming right here to my back pocket or

919
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:45.360
to my bank account. Now, no pastor wants to admit that, right,

920
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:48.079
because that creates a weird dilemma. Right, and then the

921
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:50.039
people can say, well, then I'm getting ticked off at you.

922
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:51.159
I'm not going to give any money.

923
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:51.599
I mean, that.

924
00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:55.320
Dilemma already exists, that dynamic, but it would be even

925
00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:57.400
more like. But at the same time, how can you

926
00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:59.559
sit there and try to act like it's some spiritual

927
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:01.800
thing when and the money goes to a person into

928
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:03.800
a building over eighty percent of it.

929
00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:09.639
In many cases, some.

930
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:11.480
Of the teaching doesn't even happen in the building because

931
00:55:11.559 --> 00:55:13.559
you have people meeting in homes for their small groups.

932
00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:15.119
I don't even know why you're paying for a building.

933
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:18.519
At that point. The whole thing is just so weird.

934
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:20.719
All right, Thanks for listening everyone, have a great night.

935
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:21.199
God blass.