Oct. 18, 2024

The Allegorical Method

The Allegorical Method

A discussion about the allegorical method of biblical interpretation.

Spreaker Apple Podcasts Spotify PocketCasts Amazon Music Overcast Audible Castro iHeartRadio Castbox Podchaser TuneIn Deezer Pandora RadioPublic Podcast Addict RSS Feed YouTube Fountain PlayerFM Goodpods Podverse Podyssey Breaker Podurama Audacy JioSaavn
Spreaker podcast player icon Spreaker Spreaker Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Apple Podcasts Apple Podcasts Spotify podcast player icon Spotify Spotify PocketCasts podcast player icon PocketCasts PocketCasts Amazon Music podcast player icon Amazon Music Amazon Music Overcast podcast player icon Overcast Overcast Audible podcast player icon Audible Audible Castro podcast player icon Castro Castro iHeartRadio podcast player icon iHeartRadio iHeartRadio Castbox podcast player icon Castbox Castbox Podchaser podcast player icon Podchaser Podchaser TuneIn podcast player icon TuneIn TuneIn Deezer podcast player icon Deezer Deezer Pandora podcast player icon Pandora Pandora RadioPublic podcast player icon RadioPublic RadioPublic Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podcast Addict Podcast Addict RSS Feed podcast player icon RSS Feed RSS Feed YouTube podcast player icon YouTube YouTube Fountain podcast player icon Fountain Fountain PlayerFM podcast player icon PlayerFM PlayerFM Goodpods podcast player icon Goodpods Goodpods Podverse podcast player icon Podverse Podverse Podyssey podcast player icon Podyssey Podyssey Breaker podcast player icon Breaker Breaker Podurama podcast player icon Podurama Podurama Audacy podcast player icon Audacy Audacy JioSaavn podcast player icon JioSaavn JioSaavn

A discussion about the allegorical method of biblical interpretation.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:06.080
Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

2
00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:12.839
the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. I want to

3
00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:16.120
leave the word good out of this again. See I'm

4
00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:18.839
back to saying I can't use the word good, So

5
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.039
I'm not going to say good evening. I'm just going

6
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:28.239
to say welcome. And you know it started off so simple, right, Hey,

7
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:33.079
when is an ax not an ax? And when is

8
00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:37.079
Israel not Israel? And when is land not land? I mean,

9
00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:41.159
those are very innocent questions, right, very simple. When is

10
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.240
an axe not an ax? When is Israel not Israel?

11
00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.600
And when is land not land? Very simple questions, right,

12
00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:53.119
And it has everything to do with biblical hermoneutics, everything

13
00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.240
to do with how we interpret the Bible. So I

14
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.479
threw out those questions, and I was ready to have

15
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:03.079
these questions answered because we were going to listen to

16
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.920
someone doing a series on how to study the Bible

17
00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:11.159
explain to us the allegorical method of Bible study, or

18
00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.640
the I should state it this way, the allegorical method

19
00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:19.799
of Bible interpretation, not necessarily Bible study, but Bible interpretation,

20
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.840
because study is more observational than it is being interpretation. Okay,

21
00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:28.640
but so we thought Okay, in my mind, it's very simple.

22
00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:32.560
Let's listen to the allegorical method be explained. We'll take

23
00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.200
those principles, and then we'll look back at a passage

24
00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.640
that we've been struggling with and maybe we'll find some answers.

25
00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:44.200
And by the end, we didn't find answers. We found,

26
00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:48.159
I hate to say it, almost a complete misrepresentation of

27
00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:51.519
the allegorical method, which is kind of frustrating for me

28
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.200
because I don't agree with the allegorical method, but now

29
00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:59.680
I'm here, I'm almost defending the allegorical method because of

30
00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:03.719
the accusations being made that anyone who holds to the

31
00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:08.479
allegorical method of Biblical interpretation they do it on purpose

32
00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:13.280
because they want to basically corrupt the text and they

33
00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:15.080
want to make it say what they want it to say,

34
00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.400
like almost as if they're evil, And I'm like, whoa,

35
00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.199
because someone has a different hermonudic than you, they're evil

36
00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:24.840
and you're going to go after their intent. I mean,

37
00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:30.159
it was crazy. So there's nothing good about now having

38
00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.280
to come back live on the air and try to

39
00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:35.080
turn this into something positive. So I'm not going to

40
00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:37.360
start with good evening. I'm not going to start With that,

41
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.479
I'm just going to say welcome. I will tell you this.

42
00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:45.159
It is Thursday, October seventeenth, twenty twenty four. It is

43
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.719
currently eight thirty five pm Central Time, and I am

44
00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.680
coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located

45
00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:58.520
right here in Abilene, Texas. Now I would be I mean,

46
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.439
there is major baseball playoffs going on the Yankees just

47
00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.439
one and extra innings, and the Dodgers are playing, So

48
00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:09.000
I mean I would rather possibly be doing that, right

49
00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:11.840
would I mean? It's new music night. I would rather

50
00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.039
be maybe getting ready to what new music is going

51
00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:15.759
to drop. I would rather be reading. There's a lot

52
00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:18.360
of things I would rather be doing. But I feel

53
00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:21.080
like I have to be here to try to make

54
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:26.560
something good out of out what turned so so negative.

55
00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.719
And I hate I hate when a broadcast ends in

56
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:31.000
a very negative way.

57
00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:31.520
I really do.

58
00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:34.400
I know. People think, well, you do sermon reviews, you

59
00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:36.639
want it to be negative. No, I don't. I do

60
00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:39.639
sermon reviews because I listened to sermons, and so I

61
00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:42.560
typically review what I've not listened to so that we

62
00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.400
can listen to it together and hopefully have a positive

63
00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:49.000
and uplifting experience. Oh but that did not work. So

64
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.120
let me put this all together. Let me explain why

65
00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.000
we are here. Are you ready? That's very simple, It's

66
00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:01.960
very easy. I just ied to review a sermon that

67
00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.400
the text of that sermon was Second King's Chapter six,

68
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:09.840
verses one through seven. And as soon as I saw

69
00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:13.960
the title, the title had something about don't lose your

70
00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.519
axe head or something along that line, don't lose your

71
00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.560
axe or something about that. But it definitely used the

72
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:24.079
idea of the ax belonging to us, belonging to you,

73
00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:27.399
the axe has something to do with us, right, And

74
00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.879
immediately when I saw the title had ax or axe

75
00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.120
head in the title, and me I knew that, okay,

76
00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:35.920
taking the axe head, it's applying it to me. And

77
00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:38.920
if it's talking about an axe, it's almost I can

78
00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.920
almost predict the text is going to be Second King's

79
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.800
Chapter six. Well, it turns out the sermon was on

80
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.639
Second King's Chapter six, and it was very much proven

81
00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.480
that they decided to take the ax and make it

82
00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.720
all about us, and they basically just obliterated the historical narrative. Basically,

83
00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.319
what they did is Second King's Chapter six is a

84
00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:04.639
story about a lost axehead, and the axehead represents, now,

85
00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.240
can't It just kept representing different things. They never would

86
00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:12.560
just settle on one thing. It represents our fellowship, It

87
00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.199
represents our effectiveness in doing God's work. It uh, it

88
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:21.399
represents our passion and our zeal for God. They just

89
00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:26.199
kept adding to it. And even though, well, the axehead

90
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.199
and the story is borrowed, they didn't. Then they tried

91
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.639
to explain the borrowed, but only explained the borrow It

92
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.920
just became maddening. But what was so frustrating is clearly

93
00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:37.800
what was being utilized is they were taking a text

94
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.920
very much a historical narrative and immediately going with this

95
00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.600
represents this, and this represents this, and this represents this,

96
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.720
which is very akin to, very similar to what we

97
00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.720
would refer to as the allegorical method of Biblical interpretation. Now,

98
00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.240
the church that was preaching it, I can guarantee you

99
00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:02.000
would say they are opposed to the allegorical method. They

100
00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:06.480
reject the allegorical method. But there they were utilizing at

101
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:10.800
least some of the principles, some of the ideas in

102
00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:17.360
their preaching. And so sometimes the allegorical method is disguised

103
00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:19.879
as being something well, I'm not you know, I'm not

104
00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:22.879
using the allegorical method. I'm just saying, well, this represents this,

105
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.519
and this represents this. Well, if this represents this and

106
00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.680
this represents this, then what are you doing. You can

107
00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.439
change the wording, but you're saying that what it appears

108
00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.759
to be it actually is something else, which is very

109
00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.800
similar to the allegorical method. So let me read Second

110
00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.879
Kings Chapter six, verses one through seven. We've read this

111
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.160
now countless times. We're gonna just do a little. I

112
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.639
don't know how long I'm going. I'm gonna go until

113
00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.920
I feel like my brain can can relax for the

114
00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.240
rest of the evening. That's what I'm hoping to do,

115
00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:56.319
all right, this is from my own mental health. Are

116
00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.199
you ready? Second King's chapter six, starting in verse one,

117
00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:03.399
and the sons of the prophets said, unto Elisha, behold now,

118
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.800
the place where we dwell with THEE is too straight

119
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.680
for us. It's too small, it's too cramped, it's too crowded.

120
00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:14.000
We need more space. First two, let us go, we

121
00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.480
pray thee unto Jordan, and take thence every man a beam,

122
00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.000
and let us make us a place there where we

123
00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:23.040
may dwell. And he answered, go ye, all right, this

124
00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:26.800
place is too crowded. We need more room. We want

125
00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.519
to go here, and we want to build a bigger place. Fine,

126
00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:33.160
you can go. And one said, be content, I pray

127
00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.920
thee and go with thy servants. And he answered, I

128
00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:39.639
will go. So they asked Elisha to come along with them.

129
00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:42.839
So he went with them verse four. And when they

130
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.079
came to the Jordan, they cut down wood. But as

131
00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:50.000
one was felling a beam, his axehead, or let me

132
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.720
read this correctly. But as one was felling a beam,

133
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.920
the axe head fell into the water. And he cried.

134
00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:04.000
And I said, alas, master, for it was borrowed. And

135
00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.360
the men of God said, where fell it? And he

136
00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:09.680
shoot him the place? And he cut down a stick

137
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:14.360
and cast it in thither, and the iron did swim.

138
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:17.639
Therefore said he take it upon thee, and he put

139
00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:21.160
on his hand, and he put out his hand, and

140
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:27.079
he took it. Seven verses. Seven verses that have been

141
00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:31.079
used in thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon

142
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.919
thousands of hours of preachy, where sermon after sermon takes

143
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.519
this text and goes full blown allegorical, even if they

144
00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:40.720
don't want to say it's allegorical, because all of a

145
00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:44.120
sudden Well, the work represents this, the wood represents this,

146
00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:47.679
the axe head represents this. Losing the axe head represents this,

147
00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:50.440
The water represents this. Putting the stick in the water

148
00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.679
represents this. The ox head floating represents this. And they

149
00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.799
just just throw in what it represents. Do they justify

150
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.840
that it represents this. No, maybe they'll throw out a

151
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.679
couple of cross references, and then everyone sitting in the congregation,

152
00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:12.120
everyone's sitting in the pews, are like, Wow, this is awesome. Wow,

153
00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:16.399
this represents this, This represents it. That's good preaching, pastor.

154
00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:19.679
I've never seen that in the text, and you've never

155
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:24.159
seen it in the text because it's not in the text.

156
00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.720
It's being imposed on the text. It may preach good,

157
00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.240
it may be interesting, it may be fascinating, it may

158
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:38.159
be spiritual uplifting for you, but it's not as anything.

159
00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.399
It doesn't have anything to do with the actual text.

160
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.000
So we reviewed a sermon that again just went crazy

161
00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:47.440
with it and say this represents this, this represents this.

162
00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.120
There was no justification, there was no explanation, just dogmatically

163
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.159
asserted this is what it represents. And basically, if you

164
00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.000
disagreed with that, basically you were wrong, was the attitude.

165
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.440
Then we listened to a sermon that was like, well,

166
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.200
they took it much more literal, and they gave us

167
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.240
a sense of hope. Right. Well, then today I saw

168
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.159
a message that's part of a series on how to

169
00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.840
study the Bible, and it was about the allegorical method.

170
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:15.759
So my thought was, let's listen to it. They'll explain

171
00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:18.759
the allegorical method, and we'll take those principles and we'll

172
00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.279
show you how those principles are. What people are doing

173
00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.879
with Second Kings chapter six, even though they say they

174
00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:27.919
don't use the allegorical method, how that it would be fascinating,

175
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.639
how that it would be interesting, how that it would

176
00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.399
be beneficial, And then that just turned into insanity. Their

177
00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.840
description of the allegorical method, on one hand, was somewhat

178
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.159
correct when they were reading from a book, but then

179
00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:43.840
when they started trying to talk about it, they clearly

180
00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.639
don't understand what the allegorical method is. Next thing, you know,

181
00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:51.120
it's a rant against Calvinism and that Calvinism uses the

182
00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.360
allegorical method because they don't go with the word all

183
00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:56.799
meaning all, even though the word that has nothing to

184
00:10:56.840 --> 00:10:58.840
do with the allegorical method. That's about the meaning of

185
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.639
a word, linguistics and the textual context and definition of work.

186
00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:06.200
And then the next thing, you know, Calvinists gets their

187
00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:08.960
messages from the clouds and from the what is any

188
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:12.200
It was just insane, and so I was I've just

189
00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.799
been frustrated all day. So here's what we're going to do.

190
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:17.919
We're going to do a little work on Second Kings

191
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:21.559
Chapter six, and a little work well, well, actually we're

192
00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.080
going to do everything is going to be a discussion

193
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:29.039
about the allegorical method of Bible interpretation, right, but will

194
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:32.360
utilize Second King six at least at the beginning. All right, Now,

195
00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:39.200
here's what I want to say. Every single Christian, every

196
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:46.360
single Christian, has to accept and acknowledge this reality. You

197
00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.200
may not like it, it may make you uncomfortable, but

198
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:57.399
it is a fact two thousand years of church history

199
00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:04.200
and Christians at this very moment still do not agree

200
00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.440
on how to interpret the Bible. Forget all of the

201
00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:11.440
different interpretations, forget the fact that we don't agree on

202
00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:16.799
anything philologically, doctrinally, and it's just it's just it's spiritual anarchy.

203
00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:20.440
Everyone just interprets the text that's right in their own eyes.

204
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:23.320
But the reality is we don't even agree on which

205
00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:27.679
method of hermeneutics, which system of hermautics we should even utilize.

206
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:31.440
And even those who say they agree on the system,

207
00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:34.559
people will violate the system whenever they want. They'll say,

208
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:36.720
we do not agree with the allegorical method, and then

209
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.840
the next minute they're using the allegorical method. As we

210
00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:42.360
see with Second Kings chapter six, over and over and

211
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:44.080
over and over door and I can go to other

212
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:48.559
passages this when Jesus is on in the boat and

213
00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:53.039
the storm comes, right, how do how does pastors interpret that? Well, oh,

214
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.200
this is I know, it's about Jesus and the boat

215
00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.240
and there's a storm, but the storms represent the troubles

216
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.039
and trials in life, and the boat represents our life

217
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:04.159
and we're going across the ocean. And the next thing

218
00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.200
you know, they just kind of go full blown allegorical

219
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.720
and everyone, everyone in the pew is sitting in the

220
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:11.320
pew will be like, amen, oh that was so great.

221
00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:13.919
Jesus is in the boat with me during what are

222
00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.600
you talking about? That has nothing to do with that?

223
00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.919
And I could give you example after example where people

224
00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:25.679
do these crazy things. David killing Goliath is how do

225
00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:28.000
we slay the giants in our lives. I mean, it's

226
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.240
just it's just a free for all. People read the

227
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:35.080
Bible and just make up things, and that's what happens.

228
00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.200
So we just got to be willing to acknowledge that

229
00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:42.639
fact that Christians don't even agree on how to interpret

230
00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:47.559
the Bible, and they don't agree on any interpretation. But

231
00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.360
here's the frustration. Even though we don't agree on how

232
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.080
to interpret the Bible, even though they're very little agreement

233
00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.799
and actual interpreting the Bible, everyone thinks that they're right.

234
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.360
Everyone thinks their interpretation is right, and everyone else's interpretation

235
00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:08.519
is wrong. It's like, I interpret the Bible this way,

236
00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:12.559
therefore I'm right, you're wrong, and so everyone thinks they're

237
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.120
right in their own eyes. It's an absolute free for all.

238
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.759
It's chaos, it's anarchy. And all you have to do

239
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:23.519
to really grasp how bad the problem can be is

240
00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:27.240
just listen to countless sermons. Sometimes you'll listen to countless

241
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:30.279
sermons and just like I just don't understand just listening

242
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.960
to the sermons and reading things about Second Kings chapter six,

243
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.440
verses one through seven, I don't even know. I have

244
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.759
no clue what's going on. I have no clue, and

245
00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:42.360
I know that makes us uncomfortable, But we have to

246
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.600
be willing to acknowledge that. He said, well, what should

247
00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:50.799
we do with that information? Probably should humble us, Probably

248
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.080
should make us a little maybe a little bit more cautious.

249
00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.639
And being so arrogant and judgmental and condemning and being

250
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.039
so dogmatic that we have found the corner on truth

251
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.600
right now. At the same time, you have to you

252
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.000
got to argue for how you believe the text reads.

253
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:16.200
You have to argue for interpretation. But I think some

254
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.080
things we can be pretty dogmatic about. But I think,

255
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.200
but I even then, though, we have to be willing,

256
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.759
no matter how dogmatic we are at any given moment,

257
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:27.600
we have to be willing at any given moment to

258
00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:32.080
change our position and to rethink it and to reconsider it,

259
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.480
and to continue to try to find the truth. Right now,

260
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.559
let's do this. When I see Second Kings chapter six,

261
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.360
verses one through seven, and we start talking about all

262
00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.879
of the different interpretive methods and systems used to understand

263
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:51.919
Second Kings chapter six, verses one through seven, I am

264
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.039
transported back to when I was a student at the

265
00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:01.960
Family Radio School, of the Bible. Harold Camping was in charge. Now,

266
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.759
if you know anything about Harold Camping, I mean to

267
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.919
say this as nice as I can. He lost his

268
00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.600
ever living mind. Next thing you know, he's predicting that

269
00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:11.440
the world was going to end in nineteen ninety four.

270
00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:14.200
Then he said the church age was over. Everyone has

271
00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:16.080
to leave their local church. If you stay in your

272
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.039
local church, you've taken the mark of the beast. And

273
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.600
it just got more and more bizarre and it got crazy.

274
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:23.639
Now ultimately he had a stroke. He kind of repented

275
00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:26.840
to some level, apologized for a lot of the wrong

276
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:29.799
predictions that he gave, and he ultimately passed away. And

277
00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.159
then Family Radio has now kind of transformed and well

278
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.480
you can go see what Family Radio is today. But

279
00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:39.360
I was there during all of this. Now, before he

280
00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:42.080
started kind of losing his mind, it was very much

281
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.240
a school that very much taught basically reformed theology. But

282
00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:51.000
he had a very specific system of hermeneutics when it

283
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.519
comes to interpreting the Bible. And you really could trace

284
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.799
if you wanted to see where his idea comes from,

285
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.440
really goes back to origin, if we go back into

286
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.119
early church history origin, and it also if you pick

287
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:09.279
up the Catholic Catechism, or if you look up some

288
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.200
of the documents put out by popes on biblical interpretation.

289
00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.680
I had to write a paper on one of the

290
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.039
documents that they released when I was working on a

291
00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.000
degree in Catholic theology. It sounds very similar to what

292
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.799
would be presented even in the Catholic Church, right, that

293
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:28.359
there was a system, and that basic system of hermeneutics

294
00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.759
was very present even within the Reformed world if we

295
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:36.559
go back into church history. But Harold Camping's interpretation of

296
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.000
Second Kings chapter six, verses one through seven, in a

297
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.359
book known as First Principles of Bible Study follows his

298
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:53.720
broader hermeneutical approach, which emphasizes multiple levels of meaning within scripture.

299
00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:02.160
Multiple levels of meaning within scripture. Now that's key that

300
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.359
you see scripture and you see the passage, but there's

301
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:09.200
multiple levels of meaning. Here's level one, here's level two,

302
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:13.519
here's level three, here's level four. Right, just giving you

303
00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:17.920
different numbers. They're just but there's multiple levels. Now. Some

304
00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.240
people like that idea, right because they can say, oh,

305
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.960
you're a young Christian, or you're not as spiritual as

306
00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:27.680
I have. I have found level number four. Right, I

307
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:31.799
have found level number five because I've really studied it

308
00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.039
in depth. Right, you see how this could lead to

309
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.680
a little bit of spiritual pride. But okay, all right,

310
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:44.759
this is very important. Harold Camping often focused on a

311
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:50.119
typo logical or allegorical reading of biblical events. Did you

312
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.720
hear that typological or allegorical? Now a lot of Christians

313
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:57.880
love the idea of typology. Oh now, they say, They

314
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.640
will say, I don't do the allegorical method, I just

315
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:04.720
do typology. Well, I know those can be separated, but

316
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.279
they're very much more linked together than I'll think a

317
00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.279
lot of people want to argue. I know people will say, no, no,

318
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.039
you're not being accurate. I understand that you can draw

319
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:16.759
a distinction. But when you go to the Bible and

320
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:18.920
say well, this is a type of this, and this

321
00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.799
is a type of this, and this is a type

322
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.759
of this, what you're saying is, well, the Bible has

323
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.599
one level of meaning, it's a historical narrative, but there's

324
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.400
another level of meaning because it serves as a type.

325
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.960
This represents this, and this represents this. Now, at times,

326
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.079
is typology used in the Bible? I will say yes,

327
00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.519
you know when typology is being used. When you read

328
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.519
something in the Old Testament and then you go to

329
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.119
the New Testament and they take that story and they

330
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:53.880
apply it to something else. They take the Passover and

331
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.880
apply it to Christ. Well, now I've got a textual

332
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.640
reason for now going back to the Old Testament saying, hmm,

333
00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:04.160
when I study the Passover, this is a type of Christ,

334
00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.799
because the New Testament tells me so. If the New

335
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.359
Testament tells you this represents this, then you have a

336
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:16.559
scriptural basis for understanding it from a typo, logical, or

337
00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:19.839
maybe even an allegorical way. But if the Bible does

338
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.400
not tell you that it represents this and represents this,

339
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.640
then it's just your own imagination or something you read

340
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.920
someone saying somewhere in some commentary. That does not make

341
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.279
it true. Just because it may seem to work, just

342
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.759
because it's interesting, just because it makes everyone loves your sermon,

343
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.079
does not mean it's a type. It's a type when

344
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.720
the Bible shows you it's a type. If the Bible

345
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:46.480
doesn't show you it's a type, you know what you

346
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:49.200
can say. You could do this. You know I was

347
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.440
reading this text and I know it's a historical narrative.

348
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.519
But I found some things interesting. Let's say if we

349
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.880
were looking at Second Kings chapter six. We'll go back

350
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.240
to Second King chapter six. You know, I found it

351
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.240
interesting that it says that these men were in a

352
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:10.200
straight that to dwell with the is too straight for us. Well,

353
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.720
you know, the word straight is used this way, this way,

354
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.160
this way, this way. I wonder if there's some kind

355
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:19.039
of connection here, Like now you're using other scripture to

356
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:21.440
try to maybe make an argument. Right, Well, you know

357
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.240
it says that there were chopping down wood, or it

358
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:28.000
says that the acts, well, the axe is used this

359
00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.160
many times and this to Now if you can draw

360
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.480
some kind of textual but there you cannot be dogmatic.

361
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.880
What you can say is I just found this interesting

362
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.240
that this and this, even though there's no textual basis

363
00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.279
for connecting them, it does seem kind of interesting. That's see,

364
00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.279
that's okay, that's Bible study. That's studying. That's doing odd.

365
00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:53.160
You're just making an observation. Hey, this word used here,

366
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.799
it's used here. I think there's a possible connection. I

367
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:01.160
don't know. But see that's different is when pastors are like,

368
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.519
this person represents Christ and this represents Christ and this

369
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.119
represents and you got nothing. He got literally zero in

370
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.240
the New Testament that makes any of those connections or

371
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:13.160
any claim. Well, then Howard who gave you the right

372
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:17.559
to make that connection? Now? Harold Camping was famous for this.

373
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.759
It was typo logical, it was allegorical. So you could

374
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:24.279
read anything and he'd be like, we'll see that represents this. Now.

375
00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.240
The one thing I will say about Harold Camping, and

376
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.079
I think I can say this dogmatically, not only being

377
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.799
a student and the school I probably listened and read

378
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.720
everything the man. I probably listened to everything the man

379
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.759
every taught and read every book he ever wrote. He

380
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.359
typically tried to at least offer some scriptural justification. He

381
00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.559
would try to offer some and it would sound really good, right,

382
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:50.160
it would sound really good. Now. The reason it would

383
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.599
sound really good and I didn't understand this immediately at

384
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.400
the time, but it would sound really good because he

385
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.319
would only go to cross references that seemed to fit right.

386
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.640
He'd be like, hey, you see this, well over here,

387
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.680
it's used this way. See that fits perfectly. But if

388
00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:08.799
you would just take the time to look up every

389
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.279
reference to that particular thing, you'd be like, but it's

390
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.839
also used thirteen other ways, so you ignored the other thirteen.

391
00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.359
You ignored twelve of them to pick this one and say,

392
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.880
see there's a correlation. It sounds good, it preaches good,

393
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.759
but that's just you picking and choosing versus that seemed

394
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:31.960
to fit well. Ocean represents hell. We'll see this scripture here,

395
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.519
see it works. But if we look up water or ocean,

396
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:38.920
does it always mean that you see? It can become

397
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:43.039
very very very very questionable. And you would have to

398
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:47.119
be someone who looked up every reference to every single thing. Now,

399
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.119
sometimes I thought Herold Camping brought out very interesting points.

400
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.680
There's times he did not, but it was very much

401
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.880
typological or allegorical, And I think sometimes typeology or typological

402
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.519
and allegorical are more related than people would like to admit.

403
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.359
They want to separate them, saying I don't use allegory,

404
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:10.319
I use typology, and I see what it really represents. Again,

405
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.440
if you don't have the New Testament telling you it

406
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.599
represents it, you're just making it up, or you're getting

407
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.119
it from a book, or you're getting it from a sermon,

408
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:20.200
and you're just not telling people where you got it from.

409
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.559
And Second Kings, Chapter six verses one through seven. Harold

410
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:33.759
Camping interpreted the floating axehead as a symbolic lesson about

411
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:39.559
salvation and God's intervention in the believer's life. So Harold

412
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.240
Camping will second King's chapter six. So basically it was

413
00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:46.440
something like this, No, I'm paraphrasing. It was something like this.

414
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:53.200
We try our best to work our way to salvation.

415
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:55.240
We try to we're going to keep the law. We're

416
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:57.759
gonna be good people. But if you try to work

417
00:24:57.920 --> 00:24:59.720
and you try to keep the law, you know, the

418
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.880
only thing that's going to happen is we're going to

419
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.559
be broken by the law. Something is going to break.

420
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.680
You know why, because we cannot keep the law of

421
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.640
God perfectly because we are sinners. We are sinners by nature,

422
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.079
and we fell God internally, externally and thought word. Indeed,

423
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:17.559
we're going to fell God. So while we're working, that's

424
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.720
the cutting down the trees. Sooner or later we'll break

425
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.440
ourself on the law. There's the axe head. It comes loose,

426
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.960
it falls into the water. The water represents hell, and

427
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.279
we sink in a sense, down to hell in our sin.

428
00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.079
We have died. We die in our sin. But the

429
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:39.240
stick put in the water that's Jesus Christ dying on

430
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:42.319
the cross, and by his death beryl resurrection. We are

431
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:45.960
resurrected to life and we're taken out of the grave,

432
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.440
We're taken out of hell, and we are now used

433
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:55.799
for God's glory. That's a very simplistic way of understanding it. Now,

434
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.440
according to one source that described it, it described it

435
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:03.440
this way. He saw Now, this is how one source

436
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.839
describes Harold Camping's interpretation. I just went from my memory

437
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:10.599
because I remember having to write a paper on this.

438
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:16.079
He saw the lost axehead as representing humanity's lost spiritual condition,

439
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:21.079
particularly due to sin Elisha's miraculous recovery of the axehead,

440
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:24.039
is viewed as a symbol of God's power to restore

441
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.640
what was lost spiritually. This could refer to the regeneration

442
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:32.680
and salvation offered by Christ and Camping's framework, the passage

443
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.680
is not just about a physical miracle, but also illustrates

444
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:42.039
deeper spiritual truths regarding redemption and restoration. Now, this goes

445
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.799
with Camping's idea that there were multiple levels. You had

446
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:49.640
the historical level, and you had all but you always

447
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:53.400
had this one level that basically you see the gospel

448
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.279
in every passage. Like, you can take any passage and

449
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.680
you can make it about the Gospel. You can make

450
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:03.400
it about sinnersjudgment, Hell and salvation, and you could just

451
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:06.960
read it into any passage. Now, see that sounds so spiritual.

452
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.000
You can get everyone in church to say amen to that. Oh,

453
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:15.119
the Gospel is on every page. Amen. But that sounds

454
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.480
so good. And you may even make it sound good,

455
00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:20.599
and it may even sound like it works. Here's the problem.

456
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:24.759
You're imposing it on the text. Unless there's somewhere in

457
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.079
the Bible that interprets that text as being about the

458
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:37.680
Gospel or picturing salvation, you're just imposing it. Camping's broader

459
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.880
principle in his book, Stretch stresses that scripture often contains

460
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.559
multiple layers of meaning, and he applies this to many narratives,

461
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.440
including this one. He suggests that events in the Old

462
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.880
Testament often prefigure spiritual realities under the New Covenant. However,

463
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:57.960
his method off of interpretation has been critiqued for being

464
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:05.240
overly all agoor goal and speculative. Is speculative. It's allegorical

465
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.279
and speculative. What does that mean. It's it's speculation. You're

466
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.960
just speculative. That's I guess that's the right that's the

467
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.359
right way to say it. It's speculative. Okay, I'm sorry,

468
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.920
can't speak correct. It's allegorical and speculative. It's you're you're

469
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.039
you're just speculating. You're just guessing, and speculative is not

470
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.720
the way to do hermoneutics. You don't just go to

471
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:28.880
the text and it's it's it's kind of you're just

472
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:31.720
it's speculative. You're just kind of guessing. You're just kind

473
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:34.039
of reading and making it up. Now, you can make

474
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.240
it sound good. The the better look, the more authoritative

475
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:43.480
the Bible teacher can be, the more interesting he can

476
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:47.119
present it, the more creative he can be, and how

477
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.000
he structures it, he can he can have people on

478
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.039
the edge of their seat and he can be and

479
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.000
people will be like, I have never seen this before. Wow,

480
00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:03.519
this is awesome. Yeah, it's awesome. Speculative, it's imaginary, it's

481
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.240
made up. It's being placed on the text. It may

482
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.480
sound good, but sounding good is not the way we

483
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:15.119
judge the teaching on the Bible. It's based off what

484
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:22.039
the text says. But again, allegorical and speculative critics argue

485
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:24.519
that while there may be spiritual lessons in the text.

486
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:28.400
It is important to anchor interpretations in the historical and

487
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:32.200
immediate context of the passage. Let me read it again.

488
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.319
It is important to anchor the interpretations in the historical

489
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.799
and immediate context of the passage. Your interpretation must be

490
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:48.720
anchored in the historical and immediate context, not the quote

491
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:56.599
unquote spiritual, speculative and imaginary historical. It must be there

492
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.240
and context. That's what it must be anchored too. Now

493
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.279
here's the problem. When you anchor it to the history

494
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.799
and the context, it may not be as fun to preach.

495
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:12.319
It may not be as exciting. I mean, what's more exciting? Ooh,

496
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.160
Second Kings, Chapter six. Guys, I know you've read this

497
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.319
a million times, but you know what you've missed so

498
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.599
much because it's deeper than what you thought. You thought.

499
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.200
It's just a story about a guy who lost an

500
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:25.480
ax head that he borrowed, and he was upset because

501
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.279
he lost this thing that's very valuable, and then through

502
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.920
this miracle, he gets it back and he saved the day. No, no, no,

503
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.039
this is a picture of salvation. And everybody's like ooh,

504
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:43.759
now it sounds spiritual, sounds godly, but it's allegorical and

505
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:50.200
speculative unless you've got some good cross referencing that would

506
00:30:50.279 --> 00:31:00.200
lend credence to it. Harold Camping's interpretation of Second Kings

507
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.880
focuses on a deeper spiritual meaning and often use this typology.

508
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.440
If you look at basically how he would approach this,

509
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.759
he would do it this way. When it comes to

510
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:18.000
typology and allegory, Camping often drew from passages that reflected

511
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:22.079
themes of redemption and restorations, such as Luke Chapter fifteen,

512
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.400
verses four through seven, parables of the Lost Sheep, likely

513
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:30.079
to symbolize how God seeks and restores what is lost,

514
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.960
similar to how the axehead was restored. So what he

515
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:35.319
would do. He would go to these parables where God

516
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:38.599
seeks to save that which is lost, and the axe

517
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.240
head was lost. See see see how they fit who

518
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.240
the axe head was lost? Wait, now, let's go to

519
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:47.759
the New Testament. Jesus comes to seek and to save

520
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.000
that which has lost. There's the lost coin, there's the

521
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:53.240
loss of you know sheep, there's the loss this, there's

522
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:57.000
the los see see And everybody's like, oh, yes see

523
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.079
see he did cross referencing. He did ross referencing. It

524
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:06.000
has to be true. That's just randomly connecting passages together.

525
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:09.119
That's not cross referencing. Has to have there has to

526
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.759
be an actual connection. You just don't be like, well,

527
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.279
the lost an axe head, so that applies to that

528
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.400
connects to any verse in the Bible that talks about

529
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:21.119
something being lost. And because there's these other passages about

530
00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.160
him seeking and saving what is lost, then we're just

531
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.160
gonna immediately connect it to a lost axe head just

532
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.440
because the idea of being lost is said. Now. See,

533
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.599
you can be tempted to do that, I understand, but

534
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:38.680
there's no actual textual basis for doing so. Romans five,

535
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.960
eight through ten. This could represent the restoration of sinners

536
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:44.960
through God's grace, reflecting the recovery of the axe head.

537
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.440
So then he would go to Romans five.

538
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.839
If you go to Romans five. Here, God, I'm gonna

539
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:49.480
mark this.

540
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.799
I'm gonna mark second King six. If you go to

541
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:59.920
Romans five. But God commended his love towards us that

542
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:02.720
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us much

543
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:04.920
more than being now justified by his blood, We shall

544
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.559
be saved from the wrath through him. For if when

545
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.880
we were enemies. We were reconciled to God by the

546
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:13.000
death of his son. Much more being reconciled, we shall

547
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:16.039
be saved by his life. Jesus died while we were sinners. Well,

548
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:19.920
we were lost, we were dead, we were submerged under

549
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.640
the wrath of God. He died for us, and that's

550
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:28.279
the stick being put in the water. Then he may

551
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.359
say something like Ezekiel thirty six twenty six. The promise

552
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:33.279
of God giving a new heart and a new spirit

553
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:37.279
might be connected allegorically to the restoration and a spiritual sins. Now, again,

554
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.799
what do you do when they go to Ezekiel thirty six.

555
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.880
We've talked about this a million times. Now, Israel isn't Israel,

556
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.640
and land isn't land. So but you go there and

557
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:49.680
you just grab it, and then I'll go back to

558
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:54.759
Second King's chapter six and you just start connecting things. Now,

559
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:57.839
the reason this is so effective in preaching is because

560
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:00.799
the people sitting in the pew you're camping, would you know,

561
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:03.359
have you turned to all these passages? So you're turning

562
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:07.160
this passage and you're turning to this passage. There was

563
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:11.960
no showmanship under Camping's teaching, kind of very monotone. He

564
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.719
wasn't dramatic, but so you just felt like, I'm getting

565
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.239
the Bible. You're not getting some you know, big show

566
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.000
and movie clips and a drama, and you know, a

567
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:27.559
concert is just this older gentleman in a very monotone voice,

568
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:30.039
and you're going from scripture to scripture to scripture to

569
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.519
scripture to scripture to scripture to scripture. By the time

570
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.400
he's done, you've probably looked at forty cross references and

571
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.320
you're like, wow, we studied the Bible. How you just

572
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:49.320
randomly connected dots. So he would use typology and allegory.

573
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:51.320
He would go to the symbolism of water. He did

574
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:56.480
this constantly. Water often symbolizes chaos, death, or judgment, and

575
00:34:56.519 --> 00:34:59.880
Biblical typology see this is what see it fell into

576
00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:02.599
the water. Well, this is chaos, this is death, this

577
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:05.280
is judgment. He would quote things like Isaiah forty three

578
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.079
to two. This speaks of passing through waters but not

579
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:10.440
being overwhelmed, which might serve to support the idea of

580
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:15.559
God's intervention and life threatening or troubling situations. Exodus fourteen

581
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:17.880
twenty one through thirty one, The crossing of the Red

582
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.199
Sea another instance where God miraculously controls water to save

583
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:25.360
his people might be paralleled in this miraculous retrieval of

584
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.440
the axe head. So water is used. Here is judgment

585
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.280
because it drowned. You got a Genesis six. How did

586
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.119
God judge the world a flood? How did he destroy

587
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.079
the Egyptian army? Water? And so he may go water

588
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.800
is chaos, water is judgment, water is hell. Well, we

589
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:45.639
submerge into this chaos, this death, this judgment, but we

590
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:52.400
are redeemed by Jesus Christ, redeeming what is lost. He

591
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.159
may go to John chapter six thirty nine through forty.

592
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.920
Jesus refers to not losing anything that the Father has

593
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:00.800
given him, which could be metaphorically linked the restoration of

594
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.800
the lost axe head. Camping typically viewed such passages as

595
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:09.599
hidden meanings that point to spiritual truths about salvation, restoration,

596
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:16.079
or divine intervention. And that's how someone would use the

597
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:22.960
type of topological allegorical allegorical. It's subjective, it's it's it's

598
00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:33.119
so it can sound so spiritual, though, and we have

599
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.480
to be on the lookout for that type of thing

600
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.800
in preaching. We have to be. And so what was

601
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:41.320
so frustrating is when you're listening to a series on

602
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:43.199
how to study the Bible, and they're going to tell

603
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.280
you about the allegorical method, and they just turned into

604
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:48.360
a rant about Calvinism. And then they just accuse people

605
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:52.199
using the allegorical method of basically, you know, doing it

606
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.000
on purpose and they have evil intent. Look, I don't

607
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:59.639
believe Camping had evil intent with his methodology. I don't.

608
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.119
I believe he was flawed. I believe he was wrong.

609
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:07.000
It sounded good, it sounded godly. I definitely got into

610
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:11.960
it to a certain degree. But it also is rooted

611
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:16.119
very much in church history, going back to origin, and

612
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:21.000
it became the dominant interpretive method and having different levels

613
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.559
of meaning. I mean, that was common throughout all of

614
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:27.840
church history. It's still very present. Even if I open

615
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:30.719
up the Catholic Catechism and look on sections in the

616
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.920
Catechism about how to interpret the Bible, those same layers

617
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.639
are there. It is common in church history. Camping was

618
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.000
very much rooted in Church history in his hermeneutical method.

619
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.119
Others strongly disagree with that method. But the point is is,

620
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.239
I don't think anyone has al terror or motives or

621
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:51.840
evil is working for Satan. It's just they're approaching the

622
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.760
scripture one way and this person is approaching scripture the

623
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:57.639
other way. Now, on one hand, that drives me crazy,

624
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:05.320
because we should all approach it the same way. And

625
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.840
let me make it very clear, Camping's approach was fascinating

626
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:12.360
to listen to. Every time he would teach, I'd be like, Okay,

627
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.360
where are we going? All right? Ooh, this is gonna

628
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:18.119
be fine. Okay, all right, So and so I'd have

629
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:21.719
my notes down. This represents this, this represents this, This

630
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.480
represents this, this represents this, this represents this, and I'd

631
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:27.559
be like, how is he seeing this? How will I

632
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:30.000
ever be able to teach this way? This is crazy,

633
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:33.599
This is fascinating, this is awesome. I'm like, I'm gonna

634
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.079
save every one of these notes and use it constantly.

635
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.639
And it showed up in my preaching early on. But

636
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:46.400
at some point I had to go, hmm, this just

637
00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:57.119
isn't working. This is just problematic. Now, typological, allegorical, very much,

638
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:04.599
very subjective, right, very much linked together. So let's do this.

639
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.199
Let's just and I'm not going to go too long here.

640
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.920
I just wanted to get the how Camping would have

641
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:14.039
handled it right, and and people would could criticize camping,

642
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.119
but then do you criticize the other sermon that we

643
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:20.199
listened to where the acts had represented fellowship or power

644
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.079
or this or that, Like it just became and guess what,

645
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:26.679
and campings and and camp and and and no matter

646
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:29.880
which way you go, it's all just very subjective. That's

647
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.239
the thing. It's subjective. It's it's it's just not based

648
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.280
on anything other than the person's own imagination. If you're

649
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:39.280
going to condemn one, you're going to condemn the other.

650
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:43.840
To me, any approach that goes to a text like

651
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.199
Second King's chapter six, and it's just start saying this

652
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:49.480
represents this, and this represents this. You've got to give

653
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:55.320
me something solid for your reasoning other than I was

654
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.320
looking at a philological discussion board and they were arguing

655
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:02.199
about Second King Chapter six, and many will like, well

656
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:04.599
the reformers said it this way, and basically argued, well,

657
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:06.199
if the reformer said it that way, that's the way

658
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.039
we should go, and which that kind of makes a

659
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:12.320
magisterial a magisterial argument, right that they're right and we

660
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.320
just have to follow them. And so someone I wish

661
00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:16.880
I would have copied it just gave this like utterly

662
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:20.719
ridiculous interpretation, just saying this represents this, and this represents this,

663
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:24.599
and it was like totally absurd and well people you know,

664
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:27.079
basically criticize it. And he was like, well, why is

665
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:32.599
my well, because it's not. The reformers didn't think this

666
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:35.199
way or these It doesn't matter. If everyone could just

667
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:36.800
go to the text and make it say whatever they

668
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.440
wanted to say, how can you say my absurd way

669
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:46.239
is wrong? That's the point it becomes subjective. It becomes

670
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:53.800
just a free for all. The typological very much connected

671
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:56.519
to the allegorical. You're just going to passage going well,

672
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.239
this represents this. Now people will do the same with Joseph.

673
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:04.480
Joseph's is a type of Christ. It preaches good. You

674
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.079
can make that dogmatic assertion unless you've got something in

675
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.679
the New Testament that tells you that what can you do?

676
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:11.280
You can say, well, if you look at some things

677
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.519
about Joseph, there is some similarities to the life of Christ.

678
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.800
Here's what we find. Now, that's just doing observation. I

679
00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:23.280
am observing similarities. You're not saying it's a type. You're

680
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.360
not saying it's a picture. You're like, have you ever

681
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:33.079
noticed these similarities. That's observational study. That's perfectly Okay, Hey,

682
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.760
did you notice this and this? Do you see this correlation?

683
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:38.360
Do you? Or do you see this connection? Do you

684
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:42.360
see the similarity? Now, you're not making a dogmatic assertion.

685
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:51.320
Sometimes it's just completely made up. So let's at least

686
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:55.679
consider a definition for the allegorical method, all right, The

687
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:59.239
allegorical method of biblical interpretation as a way of understanding

688
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:03.159
scripture by looking for deeper symbolic meanings beyond the literal

689
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.559
or historical sense of the text. So they would say,

690
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:10.679
you have the literal, historical meaning, but below it, there's

691
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:14.920
something deeper, there's something spiritual, and you've got to find it.

692
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:20.599
You've got to dig. And when you find it, it's amazing.

693
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:26.960
See that sounds so spiritual, right, that sounds so awesome.

694
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.360
In this method, various elements of the Bible story or

695
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.320
the Biblical stories, such as characters, events, or places, are

696
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.679
seen as representing broader spiritual truths or theological concepts often

697
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:45.480
connected to Christ or the Church or aspects of the

698
00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:47.840
Christian faith. So I want you to hear that again.

699
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.159
When you take this approach, what do you have? You

700
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:52.719
have a character, you can have a character like Joseph

701
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.000
or someone in the Bible. You can have an event

702
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.320
right like David killing Goliath or the parting of the

703
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.480
Red Sea. Example. You could have a place, oh, this place,

704
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:04.320
and then the next thing, you know, you say, this

705
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:09.679
represents this spiritual truth, this pollological concept, or represents Christ,

706
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:12.519
or represents the Church, or it represents aspects of the

707
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:21.800
Christian faith. Now preachers love doing this. Now again, if

708
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:26.239
I got something in the New Testament that draws the correlation,

709
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:30.880
draws the connection, then you are free to go crazy

710
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:32.880
with it. Right, And you know what I'm saying is

711
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.719
you're now given freedom. But if you go to the

712
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.000
New Testament, you're like man, that's never even mentioned. There's

713
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.800
no correlation, there's no connection. Then that means how about

714
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:50.480
slow down. This approach suggests that many passages in scripture,

715
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:56.400
especially in the Old Testament, contain hidden spiritual lessons or

716
00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:01.440
typological meanings that go beyond their straightforardaras or doctrinal content.

717
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:05.639
The goal is to uncover these deeper meanings, which are

718
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:09.440
believed to convey timeless truths about God, salvation, and the

719
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:13.119
Christian life. See the good stuff is hidden. Now see

720
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:16.199
this sounds good when you're teaching on how to study

721
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:18.880
the Bible. Oh you really want to drive this home, right,

722
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:20.960
because you're trying to convince everyone they need to study

723
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.119
the Bible. So what do you do? You show them?

724
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:24.880
You see this text? What do you think it means?

725
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.880
Everybody's like, well, I don't know.

726
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:28.559
It just means that, Oh you missed it. See you

727
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:33.960
didn't realize that the axead represents, you know, someone trying

728
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.440
to serve God by keeping the law. And then the

729
00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:38.360
axe head comes off because we can't keep the law.

730
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.519
And then they fall into the water, which is judgment,

731
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:44.840
is death, is chaos, it's the wrath of God. But

732
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.119
then the stick represents Christ. And then everyone to be

733
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:50.159
sitting there going wow, and you're like, yeah, that's why

734
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.480
you need to learn to study the Bible, because you

735
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:54.920
can just read it and see the surface. But the truth,

736
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:58.159
the good stuff, lies underneath the surface. So you've got

737
00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:02.039
to learn how to find the deep meaning. See that's

738
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:04.760
very good to use when you're trying to convince everyone

739
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.280
that they need to listen to you teach them how

740
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:18.360
to study the Bible. It sounds good. For example, some

741
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:22.320
who may use the allegorical interpretation, the Garden of Eden

742
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:26.800
symbolizes the human soul and its relationship with God. Moses

743
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:29.480
leading the Israelites out of Egypt is an allegory for

744
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.480
Christ's leading humanity out of sin. The Promised Land is

745
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:35.239
a symbol of Heaven or the final state of the redeemed,

746
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:40.599
allegory that can thus turn a concrete historical event or

747
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.519
figure into a symbol of a greater spiritual reality. This

748
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:48.360
method has been used by influential Christian thinkers, particularly in

749
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:53.280
the Alexandrian tradition, and was systematized with approaches like the

750
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:59.159
fourfold sense of scripture, literal, allegorical, moral, and anagog gogical

751
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:04.679
in the mid and Medieval theology. So though, and we

752
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.599
can get into that fourfold sense literal, allegorical, moral, and anagogical,

753
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:11.440
and we could explain what anagogical is, and we could

754
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.400
get into all of that, and I and look, that's

755
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:18.199
straight out of my hermoneutics class from Catholic from a

756
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.000
Catholic school, from a Catholic university, when I'm working on

757
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:23.960
a DeGrand Catholic theology. But it also is very much

758
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.559
a part of camping system, very much going all the

759
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:34.639
way back to origin and throughout much of church history. Now,

760
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:37.960
I could go through the entire history here. I could

761
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:44.679
go through the entire history.

762
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:53.320
And I have it all right here. But what do

763
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:54.760
we do I want to go?

764
00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:59.360
I think I'll stop there. I think I'll stop there

765
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:02.760
because I want to get to the principles and instructions

766
00:47:03.159 --> 00:47:05.880
of exactly how to do the allegorical and we will

767
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.400
we will get to that. Maybe tomorrow, we'll get to that.

768
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:11.079
Maybe tomorrow, maybe the weekend. I need to do some

769
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:12.760
of this at church, is what I need to do.

770
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:18.440
But I just wanted you to see that the the

771
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:22.239
typological typological allegorical is very subjective. I think we can

772
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:26.239
all agree with that, and I just want to try

773
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.159
to show you that you may go to a church

774
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:31.000
that does not believe in the allegorical method. They would

775
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:34.159
condemn it all day, but just wait to see how

776
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.840
it shows up in sermon after sermon after sermon after

777
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.519
sermon after sermon, and he's just like, well wait, this,

778
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.639
this is this, and this, how are you getting that?

779
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:48.119
And the real And they'll say they'll say, no, no, no,

780
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:51.440
I'm just using application. Well you're but you're still taking

781
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.119
the text that's about this and you're making it about this,

782
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:58.039
you're adding meaning there, And they'll say, and you can

783
00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:02.559
play all the semantics. What I'm not using allegory or

784
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:06.639
allegorical method or I'm not using typology. I'm just applying it. Well,

785
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.119
applying it is what is the lesson in the text? Now,

786
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:13.559
how does that apply to me? It's not going to

787
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:16.880
the text saying well, Jesus in the boat is Jesus

788
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:20.400
in our life. The storm represents trial and trouble, ocean

789
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.880
represents us. Selling across the ocean represents our life. Like no,

790
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:29.400
that's when it gets all just crazy. People do the

791
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:31.840
same thing with parables. You start trying to make every

792
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:35.639
little part of the parable represent this and represent that. Now,

793
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.239
if the parable is interpreted and says this represents this

794
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:41.039
and this represents this, then okay, now you have a

795
00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:44.320
biblical reason to say it's interprets that. Many cases we'll

796
00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.079
go beyond what the Bible actually says. And remember, for

797
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:50.960
a parable, the idea is there's one major lesson. It's

798
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.440
not what everything represents. It's about what the lesson is.

799
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:56.679
And sometimes we'll lose the lesson because we're trying to

800
00:48:56.679 --> 00:49:04.199
make everything interpret everything, and it just becomes problematic When

801
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.239
we open the Bible. The best thing to do is

802
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:13.239
understand it as literal as we can based off the

803
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:18.719
genre of literature that we are reading. Unless we are

804
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:21.519
given some clear clue that waits, something else may be

805
00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:24.360
going on here and I can understand. And second King six,

806
00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:27.000
you may be tempted to go, hmm, something else is

807
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:29.320
going on here that seems like a weird text. But

808
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.440
is it? Because it's been just a doesn't it fall

809
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:37.199
into a narrative of miracles and it's just another one?

810
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:39.800
You say, well, this miracle doesn't really compare to the others.

811
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:49.079
Maybe that's the point, right, But what we need something

812
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:59.239
deeper in most cases, But someone who uses the allegorical

813
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.239
as someone who does don't used the allegorical, we can't

814
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.639
judge the intent of the heart as they're doing it

815
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:08.719
to be deceptive, deceitful, simply because they want the Bible

816
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:10.719
to say what they want it to say. We can

817
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:12.920
all make the Bible say what we want it to say,

818
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.679
no matter what method or hermoneutical method we utilize. That's

819
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:20.239
because we're sinners. We all have a tendency to do that.

820
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:27.440
Different hermeneutical systems are there because that's typically the way

821
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.079
people have been taught. That's the system they were raised in,

822
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.679
that's the system they were saved in. That's the system

823
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.480
they were taught. What we have to come to the

824
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:40.960
conclusion is, Wow, nobody agrees on which system. I think

825
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:46.760
everyone's desire, at least to some level, is to try

826
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:56.440
to understand the Bible and your understanding of the Bible.

827
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.639
If you already have the understanding, you typically are going

828
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:02.679
to chose the hermonutics that agree with that understanding. Correct.

829
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:05.599
A lot of times you're told this is what the

830
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:10.480
Bible means before you're taught hermeneutics. Think about your Christian life.

831
00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:13.159
You weren't taught hermeneutics. First. You were taught this, this,

832
00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:16.280
this means this, this is this, this is what you believe.

833
00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:19.519
You were taught everything to believe and what passages mean

834
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:23.440
way before you were ever taught which hermeneutical method helped

835
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:27.159
your church arrive at that conclusion. You were taught the conclusion,

836
00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:30.559
and then maybe later on you were taught the method. Well,

837
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.719
you were taught the method after you're already told this

838
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:35.079
is what it means. So now obviously you're not going

839
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.760
to question the method because the method agrees with everything

840
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:42.880
that you've been taught. I mean, you rarely become a Christian, Like, okay,

841
00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:45.159
before we tell you what anything means in the Bible,

842
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:48.760
We're not going to tell you one thing until you

843
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:53.800
learn hermeneutics. Here are the different hermeneutical systems. Here's the

844
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:56.960
one we utilize, and this is the one we think

845
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.400
is right. Now we're going to tell you what everything means. No,

846
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.039
you're not. You're just told what's everything means, and then

847
00:52:03.039 --> 00:52:06.159
you're taught the system that will lead you to that conclusion,

848
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.000
because a different hermoneutical system will not lead you to

849
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.000
the same conclusion. So in some ways, it's kind of like,

850
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:17.679
you know, it's a little bit the game is rigged. Hey,

851
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:19.719
this is what the Bible means. Oh, and this is

852
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.840
this is the way you interpret the Bible, which will

853
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:24.400
just happen. I know it's going to be shocking. That's

854
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:31.000
going to lead you to that conclusion that's kind of

855
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:41.360
messed up, all right. I don't know if that offered

856
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.679
any help, but it just showed you how Camping handled

857
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:47.880
it a little bit about how to actually define it.

858
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:53.519
Just remember, if I go back to it, typically, especially

859
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:55.679
if we go back to the early Church, that there

860
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:59.440
was like this four levels, right, the literal, the allegorical,

861
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:02.840
the moral, and the anagogical. And the anagogical basically deals

862
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:05.880
with eschatology. When you look at it from an at

863
00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:08.599
the anagogical level, you're looking for what does this mean

864
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.840
for the future. Think of it that way, right, and

865
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:16.559
if I'm if I'm remembering the word correctly, that's how

866
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:17.800
it's pronounced anagogical.

867
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:19.639
Sometimes you may.

868
00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:27.400
Call it estological or eschatology or just future literal, allegorical moral.

869
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:33.039
Typically you go literal moral, allegorical, anagogical, I think is

870
00:53:33.079 --> 00:53:35.920
typically the way it's broken down. If I remember literal,

871
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:41.559
sometimes literal be historical. But just know that in the

872
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:45.159
allegorical method there's multiple levels of meaning. Even if you

873
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:48.920
go typology, you're doing the same thing. Hey, there's the

874
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:56.760
literal historical meaning, right, it's it's this city, but the

875
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:01.000
city represents this, this, this, this, this, there's a deeper level.

876
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:09.400
That's great if you've got some clear scriptural justification for it.

877
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:12.559
But just remember just because someone is in a city,

878
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.760
right and that city is talked about this way, you

879
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.440
still got to be careful how you draw the you

880
00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:23.519
connect the dots. Scripturally, people will connect dots and it's

881
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:26.639
kind of like, how are you connecting that? It looks like,

882
00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:28.719
you know, when you see in a movie some crazy

883
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.719
conspiratorial person down in the basement, you know, and they

884
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:34.000
got the big thing on the wall with all the

885
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.960
strings drawn to this and this and all these news articles.

886
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.000
And sometimes it's how Christians, I think, do hermonidicts. Oh look,

887
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:42.000
look this connects here, and this connects here and this

888
00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.159
connects here. And it's like, I know, you think cross

889
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:48.440
referencing is great, but you're just randomly cross referencing things

890
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:55.280
with no real justification for the cross reference. All right,

891
00:54:56.559 --> 00:55:01.960
fifty four minutes. I don't know if any of that's beneficial.

892
00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:03.920
I don't know. I don't even know if it made

893
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:06.320
my mind feel better, But I know this, what we

894
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:10.840
just did was a far better discussion of the allegorical

895
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:13.880
method than what I got so frustrated reviewing earlier. And

896
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.800
I don't say that, and I'm not trying to be negative,

897
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.719
but I'm just saying, we've actually now got into we

898
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:22.679
got an example of the allegorical method with Second King

899
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.639
six and how Harold Camping handled it right, We literally

900
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.599
got an example of it and how he used scripture

901
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:33.559
to try to justify it. Right, And at the same time,

902
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:36.199
we're not just making an accusation that he was evil

903
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:39.880
and just wanted No I disagree, I think he was wrong.

904
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:46.159
You don't have to just start making accusations of someone's

905
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:49.000
motives at whom you've never you don't even know, and

906
00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:55.480
that's just so oh, I can't stand that in Christianity sometimes.

907
00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:03.159
And what's weird is I'm opposed to the allegorical method,

908
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:05.199
but I found myself having to try to defend the

909
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:09.239
allegorical method because it was being misrepresented. That's that's a

910
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:11.519
weird place to be, right, But you know what, we

911
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:17.199
should always be willing to defend any system that's being misrepresented,

912
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:21.800
because Christianity should not be about misrepresenting, bearing false witness

913
00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:24.920
and making false accusations. If I hear someone saying whacked

914
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.719
out things about Satanists, which around this time of year,

915
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:31.239
you'll hear somebody saying crazy things about Satanism and Satanists,

916
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:33.119
and it'll be like, what form of Satanism are you

917
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:35.280
even talking about? You're talking about Anton LaVey, the Church

918
00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.840
of Satan because you don't you obviously never read the

919
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.559
Satanic Bible written by Anton Lave Because you've made nine

920
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:44.480
hundred false assumptions and accusations. You're bearing false witness. That's wrong.

921
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:46.320
So then I find myself in the weird case of

922
00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:53.800
defending Satanism. But I don't care if it's Mormonism, Islam, Satanism, Atheism.

923
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:57.079
If it's being misrepresented and we're bearing false witness and

924
00:56:57.079 --> 00:57:01.079
we're making false accusations and we're and we're judging motives

925
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.719
which whom which we cannot, then someone's got to speak

926
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:06.639
up and go no, no, no, no, no no no.

927
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:09.119
I disagree with these guys, but I'm going to defend

928
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:11.880
them in this case because you're not being fair. And

929
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:14.960
I hope someone would do that for me, and I

930
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.440
would do that for you. Even Look, I hate charismatic

931
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:24.760
theology with every ounce of my being. I loathe charismatic theology.

932
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:27.960
But if someone's misrepresenting it, I hope I would try

933
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:31.599
to defend it. As much as I hate it. I hate.

934
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:34.199
I probably hate charismatic I know I do. I hate

935
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.440
charismatic theology more than I hate Satanism, all right, because

936
00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:42.519
Satanism is well the Anton LaVey form is atheistic. It's

937
00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:45.039
just basically a form of atheism where you basically are

938
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.679
worshiping yourself. Well, as much as I disagree with it,

939
00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:55.639
charismatic theology I think is just is well yeah, oh man,

940
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:57.719
I could go all day on that, but again you

941
00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:01.880
would want to correctly. Same thing with why did I

942
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:04.400
pursue a degree in Catholic theology because I got tired

943
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:08.599
of hearing so called non Catholics criticized Catholicism, demonstrating they

944
00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:11.440
have no idea what they're referring to, misrepresenting it. And

945
00:58:11.480 --> 00:58:13.440
then at the same time, when they preach about salvation,

946
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:16.760
they almost preach a Catholic understanding of an infused righteous

947
00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:19.920
salvation versus an imputed righteousness, while they yet claim they

948
00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:23.320
believe in imputed righteousness, yet then judge imputed righteousness based

949
00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:26.360
off action. You can't judge imputed righteousness off action. And

950
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:29.199
it's like, no, you're more Catholic than Catholics, and yet

951
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:34.960
you criticize Catholicism. Go figure, Even though I disagree with Catholicism,

952
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.159
I won't defend it if it's being misrepresented. So I

953
00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.599
don't agree with the allegorical method, but I'm not going

954
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:43.800
to impugne their character and say they're doing it because

955
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.400
they're evil and they just want.

956
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:46.159
To corrupt scripture.

957
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:49.239
I think Carol Camping was wrong. I think he did

958
00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:51.679
a lot of damage. I mean, he told people to

959
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:53.840
leave their churches and if they stayed, they would be

960
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.840
taking the mark of the beast. I mean, I completely

961
00:58:56.880 --> 00:59:02.920
condemn that, But I believe he thought in his mind,

962
00:59:03.079 --> 00:59:07.920
based off his crazy allegorical interpretation of the Book of

963
00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:15.840
Jeremiah and Ezekiel, that he was onto something. His harmoneudic

964
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.719
was wrong and it led to our wrong conclusion that

965
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:22.719
I think was very harmful in damaging. I think he

966
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:26.119
thought he was just studying the Bible. He was just

967
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:29.519
trying to figure it out. And it just shows you

968
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:43.239
that the Bible is somewhat dangerous, even though we don't

969
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.760
want to admit that, because you can start trying your

970
00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:47.960
best to understand it. Next thing, you know, you're believing

971
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:50.400
some something that you know, like, how did you end

972
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:55.719
up there? You could argue that Camping was just trying

973
00:59:55.719 --> 01:00:02.840
to be very maybe consistent with this allegorical typological system. Now,

974
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:05.119
others may use a little bit of typology and a

975
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:07.719
little bit of allegory. But see they don't go very

976
01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:10.320
far with it. They just use it at certain times

977
01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.920
and then abandon it in other times. Right, so they'll

978
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.719
be like second King six, they'll go four full blown

979
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:19.960
typology and allegorical, but then a next you know this passage,

980
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:22.320
they'll go much more literal. Okay, that's just being a

981
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:24.840
little bit more inconsistent. Well, what happens if you go

982
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:29.679
all in with a allegorical typological Well then well, camping,

983
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:32.800
you could say, just went too far. Well okay, but

984
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:36.159
going too far isn't because you have some evil motive.

985
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:42.920
It just means you're taking a system and well, I

986
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:44.599
don't know how you ended up there, but I mean

987
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:49.760
that can happen to any of us. Right, all right,

988
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.760
that hopefully that ended much more positive than the last one.

989
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:57.519
The last one was such a disaster. But all right,

990
01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:00.239
there we go. We'll continue to talk about the allegorical method,

991
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:01.920
we'll do a little bit more work. All of this.

992
01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:04.360
You may hear all of this repeated on Sunday is

993
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:06.559
what you may hear a lot of this repeated on

994
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:10.599
Sunday in a sermon form. I don't know, I just

995
01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:13.400
there's a lot of get a lot of frustration dealing

996
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:19.599
with some of these issues. All right, thanks for listening. Everyone,

997
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:24.599
have a great evening, and let's go Dodgers. All right,

998
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:28.199
just joking because I'm going to go check the baseball

999
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.679
game right now. All right, everyone, have a great night.

1000
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:31.199
God bless