Sanctification Redefined

0:01 All right, this morning, let's start. If you have the Trinity Hymnal, turn to page eight hundred and fifty six, eight hundred and fifty six. If just so everyone remembers where we are. We have been dealing with this idea of how Christianity deals with sin. We dealt with that, the different systems in Christianity, philological systems, and how they kind of deal with the reality of sin. Then we went through an entire history. We finished it in the last hour. We went from the first century to twenty twenty four, and how Christians have understood our relationship to the law. We kind of gave a definition of sin which involves the law. We went through all of that, and now in this hour, I'm not going to review any of it. You can go back and listen, but this entire hour because what we found is when we go through church history, we get to once we get to the sixteenth to the seventeenth century. In fact, we kind of got a little conspiratorial in the first hour, but it's hard not to get conspiratorial. So I will at least review this. If you go from the first century up to the sixteenth century, even into a little part of the seventeenth century. Basically Christianity taught this all right, that as Christians we sin and we need to the way we fight sin and grow, you know, in holiness and the way we move towards God is through grace.

1:27 And of course you can see why this becomes very prominent in during this period of time because grace. We can in a sense receive grace, obtain grace through the sacraments. So you can understand how this works. I'm being a little conspiratorial, but basically, look at how the system is built, right, Hey, you're a sinner. You need to grow in holiness. How do you grow in holiness through grace? How do you obtain grace through the sacraments? Therefore, you need what the church, and you're never going to get to perfection, meaning you're going to need the Church forever because you cannot obtain this grace outside of the sacraments, and the sacraments can only be given to you by the Church. This makes the Church not essential yet and that's why it's a period of time it was very common to hear the phrase there is no salvation outside of the church, and you can see why. I know, it's very conspiratorial, but you kind of build a system that says you need us.

2:30 Right well, after the Reformation and there's kind of a breaking away, the language changes. Now the language is you're a sinner, but you have power to now move towards holiness, and that power comes through the Holy Spirit, and you don't need the church for that. Now it's you, the Bible and the Holy Spirit to move you there. But even in that system they have to admit you can't be perfect. So this so from the now throughout church history, they kept using this phrase that basically sanctification was a process. We will refer to it. You may want to write this down. This is we're gonna talk about this entire hour progressive sanctification, progressive sanctification, which is what every church around here would teach. Progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification. All right, you got that phrase down. Now, if you have the Westminster Confession of Faith open, did I give you the page number? All right? Do you see the heading at the very top of paging fifty six of sanctification of sanctification?

3:41 All right, so we're gonna we're gonna go back to the Westminster Confession, which I don't have the year, Sarah, do you have the year for the Westminster Confession? You're you're our church historian. Okay, right, well, we know it's we know it's seventeenth century. I'm gonna go seventeenth century, all right, I'm gonna go seventeenth oh, sixteen hundreds, okay, right, seventeenth century, right, okay, So yeah, okay, so we're in the seventeenth century right now, seventeenth century. I'm gonna this idea, progressive sanctification becomes the norm right now. The difference is the progressive sanctification instead of needing the sacraments, it's going to be basically, the Holy Spirit's going to be the one that does it. Now, this may have a little bit of more sacramental feeling for it because it's Westminster, because you had some in the Reformed world who still held to somewhat of a sacramental system. Right, Lutherans hold to a sacramental system. Presbyterians in many cases would reference it as a sacramental system. So you still have that idea.

4:46 Let's read what they say about sanctification here and see where our problems begin. You ready, Immediately, they who are once effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart, new spirit created in them. Now immediately I have every kind of problem because if they say we have a new heart, inevitably, where do they go? Ezequel thirty six? Why do I have a problem with that? Ezequel thirty six has nothing to do with you or me? And what does it say in Ezequel thirty six Once they get a new heart, what immediately follows and Exequel thirty six? Now then they go into the land that's not us, all right? So the new heart in Ezequel thirty six is about Israel when they go into the land. So already I have a problem, But my problem even gets worse if you and I have a new heart and a new spirit.

5:49 Where does sin come from? Now? This is why so many of your Christian friends put sin where outside of us. So we got to get rid of Rocket, we got to get rid of Netflix, we got to get rid of everything, because that's where sin comes from. And so they're like, I'm gonna my kids are not gonna be taken over by the world. I'm gonna keep my kid. Your kids the problem, right, your kids the problem, and my kid. And because we're the problem, because sin is inside of us. So already I've got a major problem with this, right and again, And if we have a new heart and a new spirit, logically, why should we be then perfect? That's just a logical way of thinking. Correct, But what do they say? We have a new heart a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified really and personally through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection by his word. Now look where they put the focus by his word and spirit dwelling in them? Now again, so now this is kind of moving a little bit away from the Catholic system. Right now, where do we go?

6:59 The dominion? All right? Read this carefully. The dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed. Now if the entire if the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, what should happen? There shouldn't be any more sin? Right, And the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened. No, wait a minute, how is the luss more and more weakened? If it's all been destroyed. It's destroyed, but it just gets weaker. That doesn't make any sense, does it? Right? And mortified? And they're more and more quickened and strengthening all saving grace to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. Now all right, there, I get nervous at that last part, right, because what is that implying without holiness no man will see the Lord? Well?

7:49 What is holiness perfection? So if you say without holiness, no one will see the Lord? Who's gonna see the Lord? No one? So how do we understand that? Well, I am declared to be holy by imputed righteousness. Therefore I can see the Lord, not in practical righteousness, because I will never be holy. So we've got like major issues with this paragraph. Everyone agree Number two the sanctification and is throughout in the hole man yet and perfect in this life? They're abiding. Still some remnants of corruption in every part? Now wait, how can there be the remnants of corruption in every part if I have a new heart and a new spirit? That makes literally no sense?

8:46 Uh huh, yeah, enable will Yet where is the remaining corruption? Does everyone understand? How just utterly illogical? This is where Christianity fall. This is the Christian system. Are you ready? You can't? Christ? Did he saved you? Now? You can? But you can't. That is the most insane thing I've ever heard of my entire life. Like every Christian should just be like. But Christians everywhere will agree to this and say amended this, and any criticism of it puts you where puts you outside of Christianity, and it should not do that, ladies and gentlemen. All right, So where's the remaining corruption coming from? It says, where arise at the continual irreconcilable war with the flesh lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. But if I have a new heart and new spirit, so you see what they try to do. You know, this becomes very gnostic, right, everything inside is good, but the flesh is bad. Well wait a minute now, when you when you reduce it

10:17 to that, you see where this becomes almost hard to comprehend. So doesn't my body move and operate as a result of what I am inside? This almost makes the flesh as if it's somehow separate from its nature. And that makes no sense, right, the flesh everything is operated from what's going on inside? Right my mind? My like that just I don't even that doesn't even make any sense. Then look at the chapter or paragraph three in which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may may much prevail. Yet through the continual supply of strength from the same defying spirit of Christ, the regenerate part doth overcome, and so the saints grow and grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Now that don't use the word, but ladies and gentlemen, that's progressive sanctification. All right. So here's what we're going to do. We're gonna look at progressive sanctification. Now, we're going to do something that's not allowed in churches, all right, We're going to look at the subject of progressive sanctification certification from a logical perspective. Now, this may get us in trouble, right, but I don't really care, because it's got to be considered. All right, everybody ready, all right? When you look at progressive sanctification from a logical perspective, you find there there are serious challenges to

11:50 how progress and sanctification is typically understood and most Christian traditions. If you'll step back and look at it logically, there's serios challenges to how most Christians look at this. Christians are not willing to look at it from a logical perspective because they just accept this, even though they're saying something so contradictory. Hey, you've been completely changed. You have the power of God. You can do it, but you can't. Now, any reasonable person would raise their hand and go that makes no sense. Right. That'd be like telling a kid, Hey, when you get home today, you can do this, but you can't. But you better because they right, not even becomes yeah, Sarah's gonna even make it more frustrating. Right, this subject drives me to the point of just losing my mind because it just makes me so irritated with it. All. Right, So we're going to examine this in light of logic, fact and scripture. So this is what I did. I took my perspective about sanctification, that progressive sanctification is flawed and it doesn't work. And I tried to explain my perspective to AI, and I said, Okay, I want you to take my perspective and I want you to examine it. Right.

13:09 So AI wrote out an entire examination of my perspective, right, and so this is its examination of what I offered it, right, And so we'll see what it has to say about my perspective. Okay, we may end up arguing well, I was already arguing with Ai over this, but it did say that my perspective is highly logical, so that's good. But it says it may not interact very well with traditional Christian teaching. And I'm like, okay, but it is highly logical. All right, here we go. They broke it down this way. Number one, If because it's taking my words, If the Holy Spirit is in power us to do better, but we can't achieve perfection, how is the empowerment meaningful?

14:07 So it's taking those are my words? All right? So I'm gonna read this again. If the Holy Spirit is empowering us to do better, but we can achieve perfection, how is the empowerment meaningful? Hey, I'm giving you power to do it, but you can't do it? Well, how do we meaningful? Now? I think I could go beyond why this is so difficult, but we'll just see what it says here, all right? So this is how AI responded. You raise a crucial point. If the Holy Spirit is said to be empowering Christians but they still cannot achieve perfection, is an empowerment truly effective? In some ways, it might seem that this empowerment is more theoretical than real, especially if Christians continue to sin and break the law. Now, I will argue Christians continue to sin and break the law all right, because my definition of sin is that sin is a lack of conformity to God's law. It's a lack of obedience to God's law. It's a falling short of God's law. And we are not conformed to God's law. We disobey God's law, and we fall short of God's law in thought, word, deed, desire by what we do and what we fail to do. And this is internal and this is external. Now, that definition is

15:38 consistent with Christian theology. Everything that definition right there is one thousand percent consistent with Christian theology. But that definition tells me what I'm perpetually in sin. So if I'm perpetually in sin, yeah, you tell me the Holy Spirit's empowering me. How can I measure empowerment Because any empowerment, it's just moving me from perpetual sin to perpetual sin. Power would be moving me from perpetual sin to not in perpetual sin, which would have to get me to perfection. So I think the whole empowerment thing is simply theoretical to make us feel better, but it's not anything real.

16:21 So here is now the logical analysis by AI of all of that. Now it gives me its logical analysis. Are ready. If perfection is the standard set by God's law, and they quote Matthew five forty eight, if everybody want to look at Matthew five forty eight, you should know it. If you don't, what does Matthew five forty eight say? If everybody, we need to remember that forever, because that's the key verse to the Sermon on the Mount. Be perfect as I am perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect, depending on your translation, right, everybody see that? All right?

17:06 So this is this is what AI says. If perfection is the standard set by God's law, and we would say it's not an If it is and no human human, even with the Holy Spirit's empowerment, can achieve it in this life, then the empowering of the Holy Spirit might appear ineffective and insufficient. And I would say it does, okay, if it's supposedly empowering me. Now I believe the Holy Spirit is selling me keeping me, which is a completely different thing. But if it's empowering me, if the standard is perfection, and the empowering never gets me there. Then how do I measure thee It's like moving chairs around on the Titanic. I'm gonna move the chairs here. The boat's going down. It doesn't matter where I move the chairs, right, So it's empowering me, I'm still sinning. Then how do I measure power? Do you see where my frustration is?

18:04 They go on to say the distinction between Christians and non Christians might become blurred as both groups experience moral failure and imperfection. Is that not true? If Christians are said to be making progress and they put that in quotations because I'm talking about progressive sanctification, but that progress stills fall short of the standard of the law, then how is the progress different from self improvement of non Christians? Because non Christians can make self improvement, right, I mean, because everyone knows my story of my sister and all the stuff she was into, and you know, then now she's clean, you know, no drugs, no alcohol, and I've you know, watched some of the virtual you know, alcoholics anonymous meetings. I've been to alcoholics anonymous meetings and narcotics anonymous met and when you go to those meetings, there's all these people who were like, I used to be this, and now I'm this and none of that. And many of them have nothing to do with Christianity. They may believe in some higher power, but it's nothing to do with Christianity, so they can achieve that. You can hear Mormons talk about transformation, Muslims talk about transformation, Buddhists talk about transformation. You can people in the New Age talk about Satanists can talk. Anybody can, so that doesn't and guess what, they fail and we fail. So that just

19:36 because all of this becomes crazy. So this is what AI says, you are logically correct. O good, that's good, and pointing out that if perfection cannot be attained and the law remains unbroken, unbroken by no one, then the claim that the Holy Spirit is empowering believers could be seen as somewhat meaningless because the intended goal perfect is never reached. All right, So they say logically, I am right, But then it says, however, biblically, they're gonna have some issues. All right, are you ready? Are you ready to go to some subscriptures? Go to Roman seven eighteen through nineteen.

20:23 Now are they going to mean to Are they gonna use the Bible to agree with me or disagree with me? Let's find out. Go to Roman seven eighteen through nineteen. You read it and tell me if it agrees with me or disagrees with me? What is Roman seven eighteen through nineteen. Tell us? For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing, for to will is present with me. But how to perform that which is good? Now? Immediately to me? This proves me my point. If the Holy Spirit's giving me power, I would find find where to do it. Right. Yeah, this is an apostle, right, so I want to everyone to hear that again. But how to perform that which is good? I find not. If the Holy Spirit's the one giving you the power to do it, you should be able to find how to do it correct. For the good that I would I do not, but the evil which I would not that I do. They go quote, they quote Romans eight one through four, Romans eight one through four. Now, of course Romans seven twenty five. I think he always gets overlooked. Remember even AI skips Romans seven twenty five. I remember I told you how important I think Roman seven twenty five. Is I thank God through Jesus Christ, our Lord, so that with my mind

21:54 I might myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. Well, if my flesh is serving the law of sin, what does that imply I sin? My mind is serving the law of God, and what sinse my mind? If we remember when we make repentance a change of mind, this makes perfect sense. What have I done in my mind? I've changed my mind and I now believe this is sin, this is right, this is wrong. God is right. I've changed. But in my body, what do I still do? That's exactly what Paul was saying earlier. I can't find the ability to do it. So what do I do? The things I want to do I don't do, and the things I don't want to do I do. Now, then go to Romans eight. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit. Now I think the walking after the flesh and not after the spirit is what I do positionally, because then practically I still walk after the flesh. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ. Jesus had made me free from the law of sin and death. But please note the spirit of life in Christ, right in Christ. That's the key for that, for what the law could not do, and that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own son in the likeness of his sinful flesh and for sin condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us. Now, I think the

23:24 law is fulfilled in us by how my position by Christ. I don't think it's fulfilled in practice, which would put me at odds with almost every Christian on the face of the earth. All right, now, they say it this way. Paul discusses the empowering of the spirit. I see, I don't know, and Christians are no longer under the law's condemnation, But he does not imply that Christians will achieve perfection to the law in this life. Even AI acknowledges, Paul never says that we can get to perfection. Well, if I can never get to perfection, this calls into question the entire idea of progressive sanctification. So let me state it this way. If you believe in progressive sanctification. How do you measure progress? Because inevitably everyone is falling short of the mark, so you're progressively falling short. So now to any measure, any kind of progress becomes what very subjective and you start measuring and what is Christians, at least from the seventeenth century on, we reduce it to measuring based off what some list, right, some list of like yeah, we don't go to this movie or we don't see these words, and it's just a very subjective, surface level thing, right. Paul's letter acknowledges a paradox. This is how they say it. The Holy Spirit empowers Christians to walk according to the Spirit, but at the same time believers still struggle with sin. So they argue the

24:55 Bible seems to argue for the empowerment part, but at the same time, the Bible seems to argue that we still sin. So AI says, logically, I'm right, But they try to argue that the Bible tries to say both. I'm going to say, whatever a power that it supposedly demonstrates is explained by understanding it from our positional perspective, then it makes perfect sense. You can't say there's power practically, and then at the same time say there's no power practically. That just makes no sense. They go on to say, here's number two, and again they're borrowing my words. If the law is not how we measure progress, how can progress be measured without being subjective? That it's quoting my words, right, because how do we measure progress from a Christian's perspective by obedience to the law? Agreed? Well, how can progress be measured without being subjective if the law is not how we measure progress, because you would have to have a different way to measure. If I measure it according to the law, there isn't progress because what does the scripture say? If I break one point of the law, I'm guilty of all. I'm always breaking one point of the law. Therefore I'm always guilty of all. Therefore there's no way to measure progress. So here's what they say.

26:20 This is what they say about my perspective. Your second point addresses the issue of subjectivity and measuring spiritual progress. If Christians can't measure their progress against the objective standard of the law, since they cannot keep it, then the idea of progress risks becoming a subjective or self defined concept. In that case, a person could claim they're making spiritual progress without any real objective basis for that claim. And I think that's Christianity in a nutshell. We all claim some progress, but there's no objective way to make that claim. Make the claim and then get mad at me if I call in the question your claim, But I can call in the question of your claim bases on why law, because God's law would say that's your progress. Well, guess what, You're still a center. You're still a center. You're still a center. You're still a center. All right. So here's their analysis of my perspective. If we discard the law as the measure of obedience or holiness, then the idea of spiritual progress becomes ungrounded. How can one objectively assess progress if there's no clear standard and which it is measured.

27:41 This opens the door for anyone, including non Christians, to claim they're growing or progressing morally or spiritually as they would. There would be no clear external criteria by which to assess this growth. So now they're going to give me the biblical again. Logically, they agree with me logically, but then they have to say, what, but I'm supposed to look at this from a theological perspective. So here's the biblical perspective. Look at James one twenty two through twenty five. All right, James one twenty two through twenty five. You probably have an idea what it says. I'm trying not to read all of these because of time, but I want you to at least look at it. Yeah, probably have a pretty good idea. It's the famous passage about what being doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving your own selves? Right? Okay? Right? And wouldn't it be great if we could all be doers of the word and not just hearers of the word? Right? Right?

28:46 Because I can guess what I can prove to all of you in five seconds. Your hearers are not doers. You know why. I can prove that be holy as God is holy. Now go do that this week? Are you going to do it? No? Therefore you're a hero and not a doer. So in reality, this is all of us. Correct, Well, how is AI going to handle this? Are you ready? All? Right? Here we go? This is how they handle it, all right. James seems to argue that obedience to the law, the moral law, is still a standard of Christian living, suggesting that progress in holiness should have observable effects in one's life. However, if Christians cannot keep the law perfectly, how much progress is sufficient?

29:29 How is this progress evaluated? If breaking one commandment means breaking the whole law? Look at James two ten? What does James two ten saying? If you are offending one point, you're guilty of all that? So even AI now realizes I got a problem. Let me read that again. Right, if Christians cannot keep the law perfectly, how much progress is sufficient? How is this progress evaluated? If breaking one commandment means breaking the whole law? If breaking one commandment means breaking the whole law, there's no way to evaluate progress?

30:17 All right? So number three again, they're borrowing from my words. If we can't keep the law and are in a perpetual state of sin, are discussions of progress just semantics? That's my words, all right? So let me read it again. If we can't keep the law and we're in a perpetual state of sin, our discussions of progress just semantics? I think obviously it is, But I asked it as a question instead of affirming it dogmatically. I gave my perspective and that but then asked it as a question. So then AI can offer its analysis, right, it says, your third point gets to the heart of the matter. If Christians continually are in a state of sin and breaking the law, then the discussion of progress could seem like mere semantics. After all, if believers are constantly guilty of violating God's law, how meaningful can any claim of progress really be? So it basically is just restating what I said. Okay, which is good. Then it says logical analysis.

31:18 Then it gives me the logical analysis of what I said. Are you ready for its logical analysis? Here we go. You are correct and asserting that if breaking one part of the law means being guilty of breaking all of it, then a Christian is in a continual state of law breaking, which logically undermines the idea of real progress. How can we claim to be progressing towards obedience when in fact we're perpetually guilty before God. So again AI agrees with me logically logically, And I've always tried to make the point that logically we have to look look. I think we have to look at things logically to some level, right, And then if, as if logic and the Bible are in conflict, we've got to try to figure out what to do there, Right, do we just abandon logic? Well, if we abandon logic, then things become really I mean, look, if we abandon logic, here's where we come up with.

32:14 Let's abandon logic. God empowers you to keep the law and obey him. However you can't do it. If abandon logic leads me to that, how can any rational person live in a Christian life with that system? I have power, but I can't But yet I have power. That seems ridiculous, does it not? Isn't that what we kind of mock charismatics for claiming they have the power to heal, but just ever seemingly to be able to actually do it. Well, then you're like, that's ridiculous. It's just if I'm going to criticize them, then I have to criticize us. Amen.

33:01 They go on, Ay, it goes on. This creates a situation where claims of sanctification or progress seems like word games, claiming that things are improving, when in reality the fundamental problem, sin and law breaking persist. So it doesn't find any flaws in my logic, because I don't think there's any way to get around my logic right, because what am I doing. I'm going to what Scripture tells me about sin and then just logically applying that. Well, if I logically apply what it says about sin, then I can inevitably say we're all perpetually in sin. Now, as a church, what do we do with that fact? I don't know.

33:44 I know what most Christians do. They get ticked off at me and claim it's not real. But they can't prove to me that it's not real, So then they just leave because they can't prove to me that what I'm saying is wrong, so they just leave. Well, you can go leave and play Disneyland, but reality says you can go to another church. You're still sinning, but go feel better pretending that we're with all the other nonsinners. Maybe maybe we're the only sinful church in Abilene and the surrounding areas, But I have a feeling that we're no more sinful and no less sinful than anybody else, including the atheist sitting on their couch today getting ready to watch football. Amen. All right, So biblical perspective. Uh oh, here we go. Look at Roman seven twenty four through twenty five. I love this paragraph for it everybody reads Romans seven twenty fourth through twenty five. What does it say a wretched man that I am? Who will deliver me from the body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. So I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. Finally, AI got to Romans seven twenty four and twenty five. This is good.

35:11 Now what is AI about to say? Are you ready? Everybody listened to these words carefully. Okay, here we go, right, I want to go to an AI church. I don't want to go to a person's church. I've decided AI is going to be the best church. Okay, are you ready? Here we go. Paul's personal experience reflects this ongoing tension. He recognizes that he is continually guilty of sin, even though he desires to obey God. However, he also recognizes that the solution to this dilemma is Christ's righteousness and the grace of God, not his ability to make progress and keep being the law. That's perfect all right? So AI asks ask me this question, are your points logical, fact based and consistent with scripture? So it asked me this question, Hey, do you think my position is logical, fact based and consistent with Scripture? I say yes, What does AI say? Logically? So they're going to examine those three things? Is my view logical, fact based and consistent with scripture? All? Right, here we go. Logically, your points are sound. If the Holy Spirit's empowerment does not lead to perfection, and if Christians continue to break the law, then the claim of real progress could indeed be seen as either subjective or an overstatement. Additionally, if Christians are

36:42 perpetually guilty of breaking the law, claims of sanctification could seem like philologically philological semantics, then meaningful progress. So logically they say, check, I'm good, and I stand by my look. I try not to be dogmatic about some of my hypotheses, but on this one, I'm just absolute dogmatic because I can prove it as long as unless you tell me my definition of sin is wrong. And then you've got to tell me what Jesus what God meant when he said be holy as he is holy, Because if you change the definition of sin, then you've got to redefine what God's holiness is, and now you're going to change who God is. You see the inevitable result there? If God, if holiness means God, then anything apart from perfection is sin, which is us continually right, So how about fact base?

37:33 The fact that Christians continue to sin and cannot keep the law is well supported by both scripture and experience, which cracks me out because how would a I know Okay, hey, I can't really say, but we know I can say, is it fact based? What do I always say to a charismatic? Well, if healing is guaranteed in the intellement, I can challenge them, right, well, I can just say, if you have a new home and a new spirit. What I said this, even when the controversy was building in this church? What did I tell people, don't argue with me, just go be perfect? Did any of them decide to go be perfect? No? They decided to leave.

38:17 Why because it's easy to land and be perfect? Right? Just what and my perspective am I telling you, hey, don't be perfect? Do I tell anyone not to be perfect? Do I tell anyone to sin? But people get mad at me simply because I just say we're sinners like that, that's a weird reason to get mad at me. I'm not telling you not to go be perfect, go be perfect, so you should be like, Okay, I'm gonna show you, but you should stay here to show me that you can be perfect. Then I can bring you up here and go everyone I was wrong because they have achieved perfection, and then we could all acknowledge them. Using a wrestling phrase, we can acknowledge them as our example of perfection, but we will never acknowledge them as our example of perfection, because they will always be an example of sin, just like I am. I am your example of a sinner who just went to seminary. Okay, that's the only difference. Okay, all right, So I like that it says it's well supported.

39:29 The Bible consistently teaches that human beings, even those redeemed in Christ, are still plagued by sin until they are glorified until the So even the AI acknowledges that even within scripture, everyone is plagued with sin until glorification. Okay, I believe that Christian that all systems of theology make the same mistake. We go grab what is me for glorification, and we drag it into now what a charismatics do? Do we believe healing is guaranteed in the atonement? Yes?

40:11 When when I get a new body, what do they do? Go grab that promise and make it for now? Do I believe that there will be a time that I'll be completely free from sin? Yes, but I can't grab it and bring it into the now. Now. Sin is wrong and I'm guilty of it, and I should fight against it. But I have to acknowledge whatever fight against one sin, and from a human perspective, let's just again, nobody likes me to say this is really it's irrelevant because any victory over one sin, I'm still a sinner. Now, I'm not saying that excuses any sin. That's where everyone accuses me. I'm not excusing sin, any sin in me.

40:54 I'm not excusing I've never I hope you've never thought I've excused any sin. I've always tried to acknowledge. I'm I'm a sinner because I'm a sinner. But and I'm not saying it's right, but I know that even if I didn't commit certain sins, and I can stand here and pat myself on the back. Just because I didn't commit that sin, I'd still be a sinner. See whatever sin that you could find in me, and say, how dare he? How dare that he did that? Even if I didn't do that, you should still be looking at me as I'm a sinner. But you don't only because if I don't commit a certain sin, then everyone's okay with me. That's just a weird Christian way of thinking, right, So fact base, they say, I'm good to go. All right, how about consistent with scripture? All right, here we go my critique or they say your critique, because they're addressing me, your critique align aligns with a clear biblical understanding of the human condition post conversion. They say that my view aligns with a clear biblical understanding of the human condition post conversion. And this is where I get in trouble with everyone, because I believe my condition post conversion practically it's the same as it was pre conversion. What do I believe changed post conversion? My position with God? I go with Luther, which says, at the same time, I

42:26 am a saint and a sinner at the same time. Amen. While the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit works and believers to grow in holiness. And this is where, of course, is going to go. With that typical view, it also teaches they will never achieve perfection or perfectly keep the law in this life. Therefore, any notion of progress must be carefully defined to avoid overstatement. So it simply will say this Christianity is going to continue to teach that we have the Holy Spirit to empower us. So the best AI can say is what can you have to do? Then you got to really define what you mean and not overstated. And if you really define what you mean, you're going to find yourself admitting what progress is really just kind of semantics. Now it says, what is the It says this leaves us with a thiological tension. So this is what AI says. Okay, if I consider your perspective, I've got a problem here. There's a thiological tension. So this is how it describes. It calls it a thiological dilemma that I've created. Okay, right, See when y'all say I don't understand even AI doesn't understand me. Or here's what AI says. Progress and sanctification is a biblical doctrine, but that progress is often described and in a non perfectionist term, the goal is Christ's likeness, but it has never achieved in this life. Perfection is the standard of

43:58 the law, but Christians are justified by keep by christ imputed righteousness, not their own law keeping. Thus your critique highlights a key point. Sanctification must be understood in terms of growing dependence on Christ and the work of the Spirit, not as an attempt to measure up to the laws of demands in any ultimate sense. Now I like this all right, Now I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna change this a little bit. Yeah, I'm gonna go to the back. Okay, So your critique highlights a key point sanctification must be understood in terms of growing dependence on Christ. Now there, I love because I think that's what sanctification is. Right.

44:43 The more I'm sanctified, the more I realize what that I'm a sinner. See, I think the growth and sanctification is the growth in becoming more aware of my sin, which then makes me more dependent on Christ. So I'm gonna change sanctification as the grow growth and understanding your sinfulness. The more I we have actually taught about this in this Church before I really understood this concept. The closer I get to God, the more I will realize what how sinful I am. The more I grow as a Christian, the more I will realize how far I am from being what I should be. What I always make the joke.

45:32 What is education? Yeah, education is you growing in your understanding of how dumb you are. Right. The more I study Scripture, the more I understand how dumb I am right. The more I grow as a Christian, the more I realize how and so then what does it lead to? Sanctification leads to a growing dependence on Christ and his righteousness. The more where you are of your sin, the more you're being sanctified, the more you somehow convinced that you were. And that's why I think younger Christians almost inevitably it's younger Christians younger married Christians, because younger single Christians realize how much they say right. They know they're struggling with things they don't want to admit, but they because we know the biggest sin you know in the world is you know, physical relations is the biggest thing in the world.

46:28 You know, so, but once you get married, that's at least temporarily taken care of. Right, so then you can be like, I'm young. Dun dun, dun dud And so then you can be like, I'm growing. Yeah, you're growing because you're not committing that sin you were struggling with, because now you're free to do that. Right. You see the game that gets played here. So so and so you're young, you're you're you're excited about God. That's a good thing. You got zeal for God. That's a good thing. Nobody should throw water on that. You're passionate, you're studying scripture. Everything is great, and I think that lasts. But if you continue to grow, if you continue to grow and be honest with yourself, twenty thirty years down the road, you're gonna look back going there's a lot of spiritual pride, arrogance, unloving, condemning, being judgmental. And you know what, I've realized, after twenty or thirty years of this, I'm still a sinner. I think sanctification is growing into that reality. Now I disagree with AI's use of this. So it's a sanctification is understood in terms of growing dependence on Christ and the work of and the work of the Holy Spirit. I say, I struggle with that work of the Holy Spirit. Now, if you say the work of the Holy Spirit is this, because the Spirit is in me and I'm growing, the Spirit convicts me more and more of that imperfection that is inside of me, because the Holy Spirit knows the imperfection inside of me, because the Holy Spirit is inside

47:59 of me. Right, So that if we say it that way, then I'm okay, all right it Sanctification is not an attempt to measure up to the law demands in any ultimate sense. Otherwise discussions of progress risks becoming subjective are merely a semantic exercise. This tension between being justified in Christ yet still sinful in practice is the paradox of the Christian life, which points us back to the centrality of grace. Are you ready for this? So this entire discussion produces this paradox, and it points us back. I love it. This is Ai, ladies and gentlemen, points us back to the centrality of grace and the amputation of Christ's righteousness. AI has to realize what it's imputed righteousness that's our only hope in this So and all of this, when we say progressive sanctification, What can how are we going to define progressive sanctification from this point forward in this church, right or hopefully when you even when this church is gone, when whenever this church comes to an end, hopefully for the rest of your Christian life. Progressive sanctification is what a progressive growth in your awareness of your sin and thought, word, deed, desire. By what you do

49:33 and not do internally and externally, you grow more. And why do I grow more and more into that? Because I have the spirit inside of me doing what reveal, making it known, convicting me of it. Right, I've got something inside of me making it known, so I feel more and more guilty. And so then what does that do? Sanctification then, is growing an awareness of sin and growing in a greater dependent upon imputed righteousness, not in a growing desire to try to do better, because even doing better is such a game. Right If I do better in this, am I doing better in that? And the inevitable result is, even if I appear that I'm doing better external doing better may not actually mean anything. I think the God that I'm not like these people, and the other person was like, Lord, I I'm unworthy of everything.

50:32 Who went home justified the one, not the good person, the sinner. Now in our minds, no, no, no, no, the good person is the same person the person doing the better. They cannot be really saved. No. Sanctification is where we become more and more aware of saying, what, I'm a sinner. I'm a sinner and my only hope is imputed righteousness. It's not in trying to do better. If Christianity gets reduced and Christianity is been reduced to just a system of trying to do better, we try to do better, we try to do better, but we play games because we and again I think, I mean, we know this. Statistics prove this. You have people raised in a Christian home, when do they leave Christianity about seventeen? Right, what happens, They're no under parents' control, Right, So they go and they and they may live in all kinds of sin. When do they come back? Those who come back come back after they're married. Why, some of that sin and that desire is now they have a way to fulfill it. So now they come back and then they're like, oh, now I'm moral and I don't know what's wrong with the kids in the world. Today. I don't know what's wrong with the world. It's so shut up.

51:56 That was you. Now you talk a big game because now you're married, you have kids, and so now you're all mister Godley and talk a big game. But in many cases you want to look at them and got You're the same person I knew when you were a teenager what happened. And this is why many Christians and even the church itgnos this right. So the church has emphasized what forever, getting married as early as you can. Why because you can avoid one major area of sin.

52:38 Because what's the biggest area of sin in the church is that one area? Is it not? I mean, that's the sin? This is so many other things are perfectly okay, gossip, pride, backstabbing, lying to see, it's all we make a million excuses for that. And so really Christianity is just about one sin, if you think about it, which is just ridiculous, is it not, because that one sin is always listened with all the other sins, right, idolatry, convesteousness. I mean we can go on bitterness. I mean we're supposed to do all things without complaining and grumbling. Nobody gets church excommunicated for grumbling and complaining. Man, I should have made that a major sin in this church, right, And anytime anyone grumble complain, I'm like, we're gonna have church discipline now.

53:24 Everybody like, well, you can't church discipline someone for that. Oh, but if they commit this sin, everyone would be like, throw them to the wolves. Right. It's such a weird game. So how do we define sanctification. I'll make sure we leave with this understanding. Sanctification is a Christian systematically progressively growing in an awareness of their own their own sin, not growing in an awareness of everyone else's sin. That's typically what we do, right, growing an awareness of our own sin. We will credit that to the Holy Spirit being inside of us, which makes sense. He's inside of me. He knows what's going on inside of me. He sees that sin, right, Okay, So I become more and more aware of it, and this leads to not me becoming better, but this leads me to growing in my dependence upon imputed righteousness, because I realize any attempt to do better is ultimately going to be futile. It's like I'm on the Titanic. It's going down, and if I move all the chairs to the other side of the ship. It's still going down. If I run down to my room and clean it all up, the boat is still going down.

54:33 If I go put on my best suit and sit on the deck, I'm still going down. Right, Well, inevitably, I have a sinful nature, and the boat's going down until it's raised again, and then the sin is gone. Now am I justifying in it? I'm not everyone. I have to say it online because we're like you justify you. I'm not justifying anything because God says it's sin. Now, I may not understand God's system, right. God says be holy, but he doesn't make me holy. That's bothers me. Right, Hey, I don't want you to sin, but I'm not gonna stop you from sinning. Well that's a little frustrating. So I understand that there's things that don't make sins. But I can try to take this system and at least acknowledge this. God is going to fix the problem. And maybe the whole point here now is that he saves me by an imputed righteousness. That's the whole point. And so then I am to be because remember, the whole point is he confounds the wisdom of the wise. Right, Well, one confounds the world more than anything that I can be saved and yet a sinner. That is confusing? Is it not? Well, because I'm not saved by what I do?

55:53 It's my salvation is supposed to be about whom Him, not me. We want to make it about me and how he changed me where I can. And we said, well, I'm not to get the glory, but you want everyone to look at you. No, the if shoe is he saved me even though I'm a sinner, So it magnifies what his grace and his righteousness, not mine. I think that that makes at least some level of sense. Right. So sanctification is the process as we progressively moved to a deeper understanding of our own sin and guilt. We're broken and humbled by it, which drives us to a deeper reliance upon the imputed righteousness of Christ. That is sanctification.

56:39 Every other definition of sanctification, I'm going to argue, is trash because all these other definitions are basically what God empowers you to do it, but you can't do it. That makes no sense. This one makes perfect sense. But I have right, This one makes more sense I'm made more aware of my sin and I have to rely on His imputed righteousness. That makes sense, because I can't right That one makes logical sense. And what is the standard is the law is the constant standard, right, But we do not modify the law. The law stays intact this way, right, because if I'm going to define progress and maintain the right definition of the law, there can't be any progress. This one can be progressed because what am I admitting. I'm admitting more and more that I violate the law. So the law stays the law. I grow in my understanding of how much I violate the law, which then drives me to a greater reliance upon imputed righteousness that maintains everything. That does not have me reverting back to Catholicism. That doesn't have me reverting back to a Sacramental system. It doesn't have me reverting into claiming the Spirit has given me some power that it doesn't really give me the power for it's logical, it's biblical, it's consistent. It just ticks everyone off. I don't know why,

58:11 but I've I mean, we've watched it in this church. I don't get it. I can show I can emails and YouTube comments. I can show you this will just literally drive every Christian to the point of screaming at me saying I'm a heretic. I'm like, how am I a heretic? This is consistent with historical biblical orthodoxy, which maintains the standard and maintains the reality of sin, and is logically consistent. And he said, well, but what about this scripture? This scripture, any scripture that says I should be doing this is law and it's and I know I can't and Christ did. And if it says certain things that may be speaking of my position, not my practical reality, because it has to be right, there's no other way of understanding it. So I will stop there, all right, twelve oh five. Usually I go twelve twenty. So, kid, you got a little bit of a break, not too much, all right, So let's pray, Lord God, we come before you this afternoon. Lord, I hope this new understanding of sanctification is correct. Lord, I pray that it is consistent with your word. And Lord, I pray that we would consider this in much detail, give this much discussion amongst ourselves, And Lord, I pray that we just continue trying to understand the Christian life and what it should look like, and ask for forgiveness when we know we fall short, which is continually. We have this in Jesus name, I got, people said,