Romans 8:10-11 Pt 1

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Last time this happened? Patrol one, Patrol one, Come in headquarters. This is Patrol one. Come in headquarters, Patrol one. This is headquarters. Go ahead. Yes, I'm at the First Baptist Church and we've made a terrible discovery. We have found three hundred dead bodies. Headquarters. Do you read me? This is Patrol one. I'm at First Baptist Church. We have a horrible discovery. There are three hundred dead bodies inside this church. What should we do?

0:49 Do you remember that kind of little dramatic play I did. Okay, it really wasn't that dramatic, and it probably wasn't very good, but you get the idea, three hundred bodies dead inside a church. Not literally, this is an illustration. This is a metaphor. All right, do you remember that? If you don't, well you missed that very dramatic episode. And we're going to return to the dead bodies. And we'll do so right after I tell everyone. It is Tuesday, September twenty fourth, twenty twenty four. It is currently five point fifty one pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas.

1:33 And according to what we learned, this podcast is being hosted well by a dead body. I remember I told you what to do the next time you go to church, just whisper to your kids or to your spouse and just say, see all of the dead bodies, because as Christians, we supposedly all have dead bodies. What am I referring to? Well, we started looking at a book that's called six six Grids of the Christian Life, Six Secrets of the Christian Life. And the reason we started looking at this book is because this book is attempting to try to kind of explain what you need to live the Christian life. And one of the reasons we turn to it is it's trying to offer somewhat of an explanation. I guess not so much an explanation, more of a solution, more of a cure to well, the problem of the Christian life.

2:28 The problem of the Christian life is it's a life of sin. At least that's my hypothesis, that's my perspective. The Christian life is a life of sin. I know churches everywhere will tell you no, no, no, no, The Christian life is one of victory. You have been set free from sin. You can now say no toe sin and yes to God, and you can live victorious and you can be godly and you can be righteous. I mean, well, you can't be perfect and what you can't be completely holy, and I mean you're still going to sin, but but just ignore that you can actually be well. I don't know, some level of supposed obedience based on some subjective standard created by some pastor who gives you a supposed test.

3:10 It's all subjective and very relativistic, if I'm being honest with you. But yet at the same time, Christians have a hard time dealing with the fact that no matter how much victory we talk about and how much supposed power we have, the one thing we know sin sin, sin, sin sin. Well, this book tried to offer us a solution, or remember the solution, with something like this, are you ready, I'm going to kind of break it down. Here was a solution. This was chapter one of six Secrets of the Christian Life. I told everyone to purchase the book. It's only three dollars for the kendle four dollars for a physical copy. Everyone should get a copy of it. But they put forth this argument, the Christian's body, my physical body, right slapping my arm, The physical body of a Christian is dead. Your body is dead. You said, no, my body is alive. It may appear to be live, but spiritually it is dead. Your body is dead, right, that's point number one that they put forth. Point number two is that the nature inside of you, your nature and heart, has been completely changed and transformed. So your body is dead, but inside your heart and nature has been radically changed and transformed. So I know. I always like to say the call is coming from inside the house. Well, according to their theory, the cops came in, they found

4:43 the serial killer, they got them out of the house. So now the only call coming inside your house is one that is right. It is everything is good, a new nature. You've been changed, You've been transformed. But it's only inside you're you're you're transformed nature is trapped inside a dead body. Number three, So number one, the Christian's body is dead. Number two, the nature and the heart is changed. Number three, The body, this physical body that you're living in, cannot respond to the new nature. The new nature is like, come on, let's do the right thing. Come on, let's not sin, come on, let's be holy, come on, let's be righteous. But your body just can't respond to it. Your body doesn't recognize the the will of the new nature. The body is just like nope, not going to do it, not going to do the nature is like, let's do this, and the and the body is just like nope, nope, I it cannot. It cannot.

5:46 It cannot even in any way, shape or form, respond. It's completely enable, it's unable to do. So, it has an inability. It's incapable of responding to the new nature. So number one, the Christian body is dead. Number two, the nature and heart is changed. Number three, the body cannot respond to the new nature. And number four, a resurrection of the body. Now, the resurrection of the body now in this life is required for the body to be able to respond to the new nature. So the problem in the Christian life is you've got a new nature, but you've got a body that can't respond. So what happens is you need to have a resurrection. A resurrection of the body must occur so that the body can respond to the new nature. We need a spiritual resurrection. Now, the problem is, we read all of chapter one of the book and we were kind of left with, well, how does the resurrection occur? And according to the book, it seemed to imply we can't make it happen. There's nothing we can do. God somehow just has to do it.

7:03 That was at least the implication. When you turn to chapter two, you may get a little confused and you may feel like, wait a minute, is this contradicting. You can look at chapter two of the book. We'll get to it at some point. But here was the basis of their argument, the scriptural basis for their point of view. Let me go through it again. The Christian body is dead, all right? So that was why I did the entire skit. This is Patrol one. Come in, headquarters, Patrol one. This is headquarters. Go ahead. Yes, I'm at the first Baptist Church and we have made a terrible discovery. We have found three hundred dead bodies. Right.

7:43 I did that to illustrate this, to illustrate it, to hopefully get to really drive this point home of this particular solution to why Christians continue to send So their argument is, are you ready here we go. Number one, the Christian body is dead. The body is dead. Your body is dead. Number two, the nature has been completely transformed. Number three, the body cannot respond to the new nature. It's incapable. It cannot do so it has and it's there's an inability. The body just can't do anything. So number four, a resurrection of the body must happen now. It must happen now. And once that body is resurrected, now experiences this spiritual resurrection, then the body can then respond to the nature. Now, to me, if you make this argument, whenever the resurrection of the body occurs, well then the body would be new, the nature would be new.

8:40 So to me, you inevitably then say, well, then perfection should be the result. Right. So, I don't know how this is a supposed solution to why they're still continuing sin in the Christian life. It seems odd, but we will work through the book. But their entire argument, this entire system, is based off their reading of Romans chapter eight, verses ten through eleven. I'm gonna read it from the King, James, are you ready? And if Christ be in you? The body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by the spirit that dwell within you. So the body is dead, but it's the spirit that's going to quicken that's gonna make the body alive. And as said, they don't see this as pointing to what will happen in glorification or in our the resurrection of our dead bodies in the future. They see this as something happening that can happen right now, that the spirit in you makes the resurrection of your body. And I think this is an exact The exact verbiage they use makes it possible that you can have this resurrection. Now a minute. You have the resurrection. They didn't tell me what would be the end result, but logically the end result would then be perfection. But we'll have to see where they go

10:12 later in the book. But Romans ten through eleven is the key. So I told everyone take their sermons two point zero app and start looking for random sermons on Romans chapter eight versus ten through eleven and see how they will approach it. So I looked up a random sermon, and here we go. We're going to review a sermon on Romans eight ten through eleven. I'm sorry that at the beginning my dramatic, my dramatic telling of our last episode, I think I said Patrol one, Patrol one. I should have said this is Patrol one. I think I messed it up a little bit. But that's okay. You can forgive my acting, all right. I wasn't rehearsing to act.

10:56 I was just doing it in an m prop two way, trying to remind you have the last episode. I think the first episode I did it pretty good. I didn't do so good there, but you will forgive me. Okay. Remember you can't expect perfection. I have a dead body, all right. The fact that I'm even talking is pretty amazing. Okay, all right, now say I'm making an excuse. I have a dead body. What do you expect from me? My dead body cannot respond to my new nature, so until until my body is resurrected. Yeah, I think there's all kinds of problems with this view, but I will argue that this is just so that you know Romans eight ten through eleven. There has been so many different interpretations of this in church history. We could probably take two hours to go through all the interpretations of Romans eight ten through eleven in church history. We probably could, and maybe at some point we will. But are you ready?

11:48 So what I want you to do is, as you were listening to the sermons on Romans eight ten through eleven, random sermons from the sermons two point zero app the main thing you're looking for is just how do they interpret the verses? Right, that's the main thing you're listening for. Right if you don't even listen to the whole sermon, I mean that's I still want you to listen to the whole sermon. But even if you don't, if you can just say their interpretation was this, just start making a list their interpretation was this, and start seeing that what they have in common and what they have that's different, how much agreement there is, how much disagreement. And we'll see. But that's the view put forth in the book Six Secrets of the Christian Life, and so far Secret number one is somewhat I think it's profoundly confusing, somewhat convoluted.

12:38 But we will see how Secret number two relates to Secret number one. I see if it helps clarify secret number one. We will do that at some point. But in the meantime, I got my Bible open Romans eight ten through eleven. I got a pencil. The only problem is my book bag. I'm looking around. I have no idea where my book bag is. It's somewhere in this studio, and it has all my notebooks in it. So I may need a notebook here in a little bit to take some notes. But I will go find that while we're listening to this sermon Romans eight ten through eleven. Here we go. This was randomly found on the sermon's two point Oh app you know what that means. I have no idea what's getting ready to happen because I haven't listened to it first. So we're listening to it together in real time. Deep breath, Let's hope for the best.

13:39 All right, Well, turn to Romans eight if you will. We're going to continue our discussion here in this broader theme of sanctification, but particularly in this chapter, we're really seeing the role of the spirit in that work. We're in that part of our salvation. Right now. We're focused in on verses five through seventeen. So let's go ahead and read those at the start. All right, we're not making it very far, all right. So obviously sanctification when whenever we talk about Christian life and sin, we talk about sanctification right now, it is typically, it's very common within the majority of Christiandom to say that when you become a Christian, now you get the spirit, and the spirit is the thing that drives. It's the spirit that's the thing that does the transforming, the changing.

14:37 It is done by the spirit of God. It's not done by your work. It's not done by your effort. It's done by the Spirit of God. Now again, any just logical reasonable person. And I try to stress logical reasonable, because whenever I raise these questions, everyone thinks I'm not being logical or reasonable and they just want to throw me out of Christianity and say, no, don't ask those questions. But I don't know how you. I don't know how the normal person sits in the pew and doesn't just look around going Does anybody see that this is ridiculous? Right? Come on? So this is the way it's typically taught when you became a Christian. Dun, dun, dun, duh, the Holy Spirit came in. Now you are in dwelt by the Spirit of God, third person of the Trinity, The omnipotent, holy, powerful, Holy Spirit is inside of you, and that spirit is doing a work inside of you to make you more godly, to make you more holy. Now the reasonable question would be, well, if the Holy Spirit is the one doing the sanctifying, if the Holy Spirit is the one doing the work, well, then ladies and gentlemen, why am I not perfect? How come the Holy Spirit cannot get me to perfection? And then some people say, well, it's your fault. The Holy Spirit's the one doing the work. But see, you have to you have to agree to it, or you have to submit to it, or you have to allow it, which seems to then make me more powerful than the spirit, because if the Spirit is in me, why wouldn't the spirit take my want to and change my want to

16:07 to wanting the Spirit to do it, and then submitting to the spirit. Why can't the Spirit, then, before it does anything else, work on my want to and work on my submission so that my want to is I want the Spirit to do its work. I submit to the spirit. Then the Spirit just gets me to perfection. How can the Spirit of God be the one doing the sanctifying but for some weird reason, the spirit cannot get me to perfection. And if the spirit is doing the work, then why is it that if I commit this sin or this sin or this sin boom, it's my fault, It's not the fault of the one that's supposedly doing the work to keep me from sinning. If the spirit is in me, why can't the spirit inside of me keep me from sinning? Now, of course, and the view that we just talked about, they would argue, well, the spirit is inside of you, the new nature is inside of you, but the body is dead, so the body can't respond to the nature. But then it's well, the spirit is supposed to be the one that resurrect the body, so why wouldn't the spirit just immediately resurrect the body. Then the body can respond to the new nature and to the spirit, and then we get to perfection.

17:16 Christianity does weird double speak on this, Like, on one hand, Christians will say, hey, you're a new creature. Old things have passed away, all things have become new. That happens at the moment of salvation. Well, then why do I need sanctification. I've already been made new. Christians will say, you get a new heart. We'll have a new heart, a new nature, and the old is gone, and behold, everything is new. There is no need for sanctification because I've already basically been made perfect. But then they'll say, no, you have a new heart, a new nature. You're a new creature, the oldest passed away. All things have become new. But you still have to be sanctified, sanctified from what set apart from what.

17:56 It is. So Christianity's talk discussion on these things. You just look, I'm not trying to be mean, but when you start listening to some of this, use want to just start going blah blah blah blah blah blahlah. And after a while it just starts sounding like wah wah wah wah wah wah wah, wah wah wah. It's just words that sound spiritual, they sound philological, but there's just words with no meaning. This is sound and fury but no actual substance. So what does it mean? So the spirit is the one that does the work of sanctification. If the spirit is the one that does the work of sanctification. It should be perfect right.

18:48 And then UH cover a couple more verses today, starting in verse five. For those who are according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh. But those who are according to the Spirit the thing to the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace. Because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God, for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able. To do so. And those who are in the flesh are not able to please God. However, you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. If indeed, the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

19:37 But if the spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Jesus Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. So, then, brothers, we are under obligation not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you are living according to flesh, you must die. But if by the spirit you're putting to death the practices of the body, you will live. For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received the spirit of adoption, as sons by whom we cry out Abbah, Father. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. And if children also heirs of God and fellow ers with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. So as we've been dissecting this chapter a little bit again, as we've said, probably the most thorough expose on the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Christian, we've been looking at some of the roles he plays and divided it up in a few different sections Verses one through four.

20:56 If you recall that we said there was no condemnation, Verse one being key versed, there there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. That's following on the heels of what he just said in chapter seven that. I'm a wretch. My mind is bent towards God, but my body is still struggling. And yet Paul says, there's no condemnation. And we'll elaborate on them a little more as he builds on that. But basically, the role there that we see with the Spirit is that he frees us from sin and death, but at the same time he also enables us to fulfill the law. That word freedom is one that we'll pick up on throughout.

21:38 Okay, do you see that we're free from sin and the Spirit enables us to keep the law. Ladies and gentlemen, If the Spirit enables you to keep the law, then that means you have the You have no excuse. You have been enabled supernaturally to keep God's law. That means you can do it perfectly, like the minute you make that declaration. The Spirit enables you to keep the law, then there is no excuse. You can be perfect. Your pastor can be perfect, everyone in your church can be perfect, your kids can be perfect if they're Christian. Now the argument is, then, well, if you can't be perfect, well then you don't have the spirit. Therefore you're not saved.

22:22 So therefore the proof of one salvation is perfection because you've been enabled to keep the law. He literally just said that, oh man, we can keep the law. That this goes against. Oh man, Okay, all right, let's continue. Hey now, look, I look, I understand because I know many of you already starting to type Look, I know you're going to disagree. Ninety nine percent of Christianity disagrees with me on this. Ninety nine percent of christian ninety nine percent of Christians believe that they can and keep the law. They can say notice in yes to God, and they can obey the law. Again, don't argue with me, just go keep the law. Start with be holy as God is holy, and tell everyone that you're as holy as God. And the minute you tell everyone that, look, I don't even care to argue with theology anymore. I feel sad for you because you're absolutely delusional and you need mental health help because you think you're as holy as God is. But that's an actual command. If you can keep the law, you can do it.

23:34 We spent some time a few weeks ago talking about the fact that that's really what sanctification is it's freedom. It's a freedom that the Loss did not possess. A lot of people. The lost would look at what we have and think it's slavery. They would think, well, you're not free, you're a slave. Well, yes, we're slaves. We're all slaves. We're slaves to one thing or the other. And our slavery comes with great freedom of who our master is, so he frees us from. And that's the typical Christian. We have something the world doesn't. The world doesn't have what we have, meaning we're better than the lost people. We're better than the lost, We're better than the lost. Two thousand years of church history, the Church has proved over and over and over we're not better than the lost. In fact, even in the Church of Court it was like, hey, you guys are doing things the people in the world aren't even doing.

24:32 But it's the mentality of the modern day Christian evangelical world. We're better than everyone else. We have something they don't. We have freedom. We have freedom from sin. Okay, well then just stop sinning. If you're free from sin, then you can be perfect. If you can't be perfect, what's keeping you from perfection, whatever's keeping you from perfection. You're not free. From sin and death. There's no kind the nation that can come. But he enables us to fulfill the law. Prior to that, we did not have the ability. He said it a second time. He enables you to keep the law before save you can't. So you can keep God's law perfectly and lost people can't. This is why I have basically thrown up my hands in many aspects to the evangelical world because I don't know what to say. I don't fit into that Christianity. I cannot keep the law now may and don't act like that.

25:41 I have abandoned historical biblical Christianity because this has been a part. The idea that we cannot keep the law was a critical part of the Reformation. We cannot keep them. It's still very critical to Lutheran theology. So it's not like I've abandoned Christianity. No. No, I feel like Christianity is a and in Christianity. The whole thing with Christianity, especially from a Lutheran perspective, is we cannot keep the law. We never can keep the law. We're in perpetual disobedience to the law. The law demands perfection. We can't do that. So what is my hope. My hope is that Christ kept it for me.

26:22 In Christ, his obedience to the law is imputed to my account. But this is saying no, no, no, no, no no. Hey, those lost people you know they can't keep the law, but I can, so you can. Just Hey, if you work somewhere, I just want you to go to work tomorrow and just tell all the lost people I feel sorry for all of you. You cannot keep the law of God, but I can, and I can do it perfectly. So you watch me because I'm better than all of you. Now, of course we say, well, Christian would never talk that way. Well, that's what you're claiming. I have the ability to keep God's law perfectly. And now everyone who ever emails me to act like that they can keep it perfectly. They never seem to want to give me full access to be able to get some information, right, come on, I want some full access to your life. Come on, come on, let me talk to your kids, let me talk to your spouse, let me talk to your co workers. Come on, come on, let me. I guarantee I'm gonna hear you say things and act and the way you think and the way, and in fact sometimes just the way they email me. It's demonstrating you're right there demonstrating attitudes and actions that are not godly. You're not even showing love to your enemy. You're not showing I mean, over and over and over, and it's like, but they can't see it because they deny their own sin to support their theology.

27:45 Their theology says, I can keep the law. So I'm keeping the law because if I don't keep the law, then that means there's something wrong with me, which possibly could lead to the fact that you, well, you're never saved. Now that works, I guess if you can convey yourself that you're not sinning literally twenty four hours a day, seven days a week around you know, twenty four to seven unless but if you can convince yourself that you don't. All right, we're not gonna even get to Romans eight ten through eleven because I'm gonna lose my mind before we move forward. But let's okay, deep breath, Come on, guys, you need to calm down. I don't know why you guys get so worked up and so emotional and so dramatic. Just stay calm right, be like me, calm, cool, collective, never get worked up, never lose my cool. Be like me, because hey, I can keep God's law. I'm perfect, all right, So just be like me.

28:44 And then the section we're in now, verses five through seventeen, we just read, we've labeled that no obligation. We're freedom from defeat. We can't be defeated. Key verse theres verse twelve, which we won't get to today but probably next week, Lord willing. But chapter eight, verse twelve. So then, brothers, we are under obligation, but not to the flesh to live according to the flesh. Our obligation is elsewhere as believers. Again, we know that if it was up to us, we would fail. We do fail, all of us. At times sit there and think like Paul, wretched man or woman.

29:26 That I am so we all fail. You now have the ability to keep the law, but we all fail. I really look, is it just me? Is it? Am I the only one who've spent my entire Christian life? Just like? What? How do you understand this double speak? Hey, you now have the ability to keep the law. You have something lost? People don't, Hey, but we all fail.

30:10 But we all sometimes feel like Paul Oh, wretched man that I am. Why are you feeling that way? You can keep the law, Just go do it. So then what's keeping me from doing it? What's keeping me from doing it? What is the thing keeping me from doing it? No, I'm sure all of you have been like me. You sit there, you read those pats. You think, Paul, you don't even know wretched. I can tell you wretched. And so we do fail. We will fail, but we can't be defeated. Our position with God isn't based on our actions. Perseverance, though, is necessary for salvation. Those who don't persevere will not find themselves in heaven.

30:59 Oh wow, so positionally we're okay. But perseverance determines salvation. Now please now, perseverance not the imputation of Christ righteousness. Your perseverance determines your salvation. It's not the finished work of Christ. It's perseverance that determines salvation. That literally sounds like Roman Catholicism. Now, some people say, well, you hold to a calvinistic approach, you hold to perseverance of the saints. My idea of perseverance of the saints is very much different than what they explain. I will persevere in faith, I will persevere in believing there is no guarantee of my perseverance and action. Considering the fact that I'm going to sin twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, I don't know how I would even have a way of measuring whether I'm persevering an action or not. He seems to be saying, Hey, if you don't persevere in action, then you go to hell. So much for Christ's work, imputed to my account, I would say, yes, if Christ work for me, perseveres till the end. Whatever action you say I must do, Christ did it, and it perseveres till the end.

32:26 But perseverance, as we said last time, it's not the cause of our salvation, it's the mark of it. Those who persevere are the true children of God. Those are the ones who are in Christ. And then there's the little double speak. Hey, perseverance doesn't make you saved. Persevere only proves you're saved. But if you don't persevere, you're not saved. Meaning I have to persevere in order to be saved. You're just speaking in circles, right, Hey, No, you don't have to persevere in order to be saved. But if you are saved, you will persevere. But if you don't persevere, you were never saved. So perseverance is required for salvation. You're just trying to You're just playing a little game of somatics, trying to try it's just semantics.

33:09 You're just playing a little game that way, And I can't stand that. Well, it's not works that save you. But if you don't have works, then you're not saved. So I have to have works in order to be saved. Well no, you've got to have Christ to be saved. But if you are saved, then you'll do works. But if I don't have the works and I'm not safe, well yeah, so I've got to have works and I've got to have perseverance in order to be saved. Well no, and then you just talk in circles and nobody can see how maddening that is. Like it just makes me like, so, did what did Jesus actually do for me? Am I saved because of Jesus? Or am I saved because of I? Do this? This, this, this, this, this, this this, And according to you, since I've been giving the ability to keep God's law, then the measure of salvation should be perfect obedience. To the law because you said I can keep it. But you've already said that I'm not going to be perfect because I'm going to keep sinning. So then how do I measure perseverance? Is perseverance now very subjective. Hey, you can keep the law, but we're not going to hold you to the standard of perfect obedience to the law because we know nobody's going to pull that off.

34:18 But you have to reach a certain standard in order to prove that you're safe. What is that standard? Is it fifty percent obedience? Sixty percent, thirty percent? And that's not being sarcastic or just being a smarter like, that's really just I think any reasonable person should ask these questions because you're dealing with actual salvation at this point and. In the spirit, so we can't be condemned and thankfully we can't be defeated. So we started breaking this down last time. Really a sub section we're looking at right now is verses five through thirteen. The role of the spirit here is that he changes our natures and empowers us for victory.

35:02 So we started last time time. Now did you hear that? So he changes our nature and empowers us to victory. So we have supernatural power to live a victorious Christian life. Now according to this again, this is where I get so confused. If I'm being empowered by a supernatural power, why can't supernatural power get me to perfection when he's already acknowledged how wretched we can be. So if I have supernatural power to get me to victory, why then, are you saying that I can be wretched? How am I being wretched? If I have supernatural power working from the inside. Why can't the supernatural power working from the inside with a completely transformed nature?

35:47 Why is it living like a wretched person? But how he changed our natures? But that change is why we can't be defeated, that sanctification process that he is working on. So let's pick up where we left off. I can't be defeated now okay, no, wait, I can't be defeated. What does that mean? If I can't be defeated, what sin can I then not keep? Or what sin can I not do? I mean, if I can't be defeated, are you saying sin just cannot defeat me? It can defeat me in the short term, but it cannot defeat me in the long term. But wait, a minute, I'm sinning my entire Christian life. So in one sense, I'm living continually in defeat because I never keep God's law.

36:35 But you said I can keep God's law. But at the same time you said I can be a wretched. So I don't understand. If I'm being wretched? Is I not defeat? He says, we're going to continue to sin and we're not going to be perfect. Well, well, then is that not defeat. If God's standard is perfection and I can't get to perfection, then by definition, that is perpetual defeat. The standard is be holy as God is holy. I never do that. Then I've lived my life in perpetual defeat. Unless now defeat is red. I don't understand this. See this, I'm just rocking back and forth. I'm just rocking back and forth, and I just I just I need a straight jacket, and I just like blah, what happened to you, sir, Christianity? Why are you here at the mental institution Christianity? Why did you have a nervous breakdown? Christianity?

37:35 How come you've lost all hope and everything? Christianity? What did Christianity do for you? Drive me to the point of insanity, because I've got power, I got a new nature. I can keep the law. Oh but I'm still wretched. I can still sin. But if I'm too wretched, I'm too sin, well then I prove that I was never saved. And again Christietti says that if anyone's in Christ is a new creature, old things that have passed away, all things have become new, Well, then why am I sinning? Wouldn't sin be a part of the old. If all things have become new and the old is gone, why am I sinning? Isn't sin a part of the old?

38:25 All Right? All right, I'm just gonna try to just gonna be patient. Hopefully we'll get to ten through eleven, we'll find out about our dead bodies. Maybe it's gonna offer that as a solution. I don't know what we'll. See Verses five through nine. If you recall last time Paul went through an equation of sorts, he gave a very clear and distinct and a very logical comparison of the natural man versus the spiritual man. And as we discuss, there's only two a there's not two types of Christians. You're either a Christian or you're not a Christian. Now some of us are farther down the road of sanctification. But this idea of a carnal Christian or a fleshly Christian, it's just an oxymoron.

39:09 Doesn't exist. There are no carnal or fleshy Christians. They don't exist. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as undo spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as under babes in Christ, I have fed you with milk, and not with me, for hitherto you are not able to bear it. Neither yet now are you able, For you are yet carnal. For whereas there is among you envying strife divisions, are you not carnal? And walk as men? Paul First Corinthians, chapter three is referring to believers. He calls them babes in Christ, and he refers to them as carnal. But we just were told there's no fleshy and no carnal Christian.

39:57 So if you're cardinal, or if you're fleshy, you're not saved. But wait, he just said a minute ago, we can be like, oh, wretched man. Wait, if I'm wretched, would that not be that I'm carnal and Fleshley, but I cannot be cardinal and Fleshley and be saved according to this perspective. So basically what he is saying is I have to be perfect. But yet he's already said that I can't be perfect, So I don't understand it's perfection the standard. Because he said that I now have the ability, the ability to keep the law, and he says I'm being empowered by the spirit, but he's also acknowledged that we still commit sin. This is one of those This is where Christianity it's like if you're trying to draw, if you're trying to chart this at this point, you're probably burning your house down because you're probably like, I can't even follow the chart. I can't even I can be wretched, but I'm not cardinal, because if I'm cardinal, I'm not saved. I have the ability to keep the law and I have power, but I'm going to be wretched.

40:52 But wretched is not the same thing as carnal. And the proof of my salvation is my perseverance can't be defeated. And this everyone's sitting in the church. You're saying Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen. You know everybody will be like, oh, what a great sermon. Whenever I hear these sermons, I want to run to the parking lot. And when people come out like come here, come here, come here, come here, explain it to me. How does it work? Now? Wait? So what about this or this or this? And you start at you try to talk to people about this, they'll just talk themselves into circles because they have no way of how does this work in your life? So you start asking questions, Hey, God, does God command you to be holy as He is holy? Yes? Is that a command? Yes? Is that a law? Yes? Do you do it?

41:40 No? Why not? You have the ability to do it? And if you're not doing it, do you ever do it? No? That means you're perpetually in sin. So if you're perpetually in sin, that sounds like you're being defeated. But he said you have the ability to keep the law. So I'll just give you one law, be holy as God is holy. If you have the ability to keep the law, then just be holy as God is holy? Well, why can't you do it? And when you hear my frustration, don't think that I'm being frustrated at this sermon. It's not my frustration. It's not about this sermon. He's preaching what standard preached in every church. This is not about this sermon. It's not about that you're misinterpreting this. I'm criticizing this perspective. And the reason I'm criticizing this perspective I used to teach the same perspective, even though I struggled with it, even though I didn't quite understand it.

42:38 I just this is the way you're supposed to teach it. Everyone teaches it this way, and I just don't understand. So maybe we'll get to ten through it. Maybe we're going to get some explanation, and maybe I'm going to be like, that's what I was missing. If I would have just had that piece, it would all make sense. Right now, I'm going I don't get it. With that backdrop. In mind of that equation, that comparison, let's read verses ten through thirteen. Now, now we'll read verses ten and eleven.

43:18 If Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. If the spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ, Jesus from the dead, will also give life to your mortal bodies through His spirit who dwells in you. So he's just given that comparison, and now he's given us the next step. Here's the byproduct. If Christ is in you, why was it even necessary for the Holy Spirit to change our natures? Remember what the old nature looked like. You could verses five through nine. You can see this progression with the old nature. People who are of the old nature, they set their minds on the things of the flesh. The mindset on flesh is dead. It's hostile towards God. It's not able to please God. That's not a rosy picture, is it. That is certainly not the picture of somebody who wants to hear those words, well done, thou good and faithful servant.

44:15 It's not the picture of. We will hear the words well done, thy good and faithful servant, because those are the words spoken. Those would be the word spoken of Christ in Christ, well done, thy good and faithful servant, Not well done, thy good and faithful servant. When looking at my life, because I will never be a good and faithful servant in my life, because I'm a sinner, perpetually in sin. The only way I will ever hear the words good and faithful servant is because christ righteousness and obedience, passive and active, has been imputed. To my account, there's no other way. If you think you are good enough for the perfect God to look at you and say well done, thy good and faithful servant, you're out of your ever living mind.

45:09 You've got to convince yourself that you are so much better than everyone else. You've got to convince yourself that you're basically perfect. Somebody who is trying to please God, they're not able, and they don't care to. So he told us in verse nine, know that we are no longer of the flesh, We're of the spirit. And so look at verse ten. Then, so, according to his argument, God has so changed our nature. We're no longer of the flesh. We're not fleshly, we're not carnal in any way, shape or form, because there's no cardinal Christians. So you're not carnal, you're not fleshy.

45:56 So now you've been completely set free from the flesh. You're completely of the spirit. You now are empowered by the spirit. You have a complete new nature, and now you have the ability to keep the law perfectly. However, he's also obviously acknowledged that we can be wretched. I don't again, I don't even understand how this even supposed to work, Like even from just for it, just from logical walking through it. Now he's walking through it, and he's given an outline. Sounds like an outline I could probably find in a MacArthur commentary that's what it sounds like, or Martin Lloyd Jones, I could probably go to the commentary that this sounds very similar to and it sounds good. But see, that's the thing. You can preach sermons by just learning like what, okay, how am I supposed to break this passage down? What am I supposed to say? Well, what does our team say? Here's our theological team. But someone has to be able to go wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait. Let's this sounds great theoretically, but nobody in the pew, if they're even remotely honest, is experiencing what you are claiming we are unless they're convincing themselves and they have to live a lie.

47:13 Remember also a verse nine, he told us to be any other way if you're not in the spirit. It meant we didn't belong to God, and that again. Is key distinction. But look at verse ten. If Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. So he's making sure we know exactly who the audience is here. He's just outlining the two groups of people, and now he's speaking to one of them. If Christ is indeed in you. If Christ isn't in you, what Paul is about say means nothing to you. It's not for the lost. The lost cannot please God. They're not able to there's nothing righteous in the lost. They don't even fear God. He told us in Romans chapter three, Isaiah told us righteousness is filthy rags. It's not even as good as filthy rags. Is essentially what's going on there.

48:06 So if Christ is indeed in you, then what he's about to say applies. So he's speaking to those who belong to God. And it's a very necessary distinction. Some of us might think, well, you don't have to say this, we know what's going on here. It's very necessary because even though he's been very specific in differentiating these two groups, there's still some commonality between us and the lost, and we don't like to admit that. Wait, there's commonality between us and the lost? How can there be? Okay, all right, I'll be curious what the commonality is, because he's already demonstrated that we're completely different than the loss, right, But there's some commonality. Maybe the commonality is maybe they're gonna go with kind of the outline that I already gave you. Is he going to go with the idea that the body, it's the it's the body. We have the same dead body as them.

49:11 But notice his parenthetical thought that he makes after he identifies his group. If Christ is ineed in you, although the body is dead because of sin, look back at verse six, for to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the spirit is life and peace. What's the commonality this dead body, this unredeemed body. All the way back in chapter one, Paul began very painstakingly differentiating between the mind or the heart sometimes those are used interchangeably, and the body. He began to be very deliberate in chapter six and seven, as we've spent some time talking about that.

49:57 But let's review a key passage. Turn back to Romans one. We'll just I want to do a quick fly over a few verses throughout the letter that are. Leading us to this point. One of the interesting things about the Book of Romans is Paul's building precept upon precept upon precept. He's not just. Talking and disjointed ideas or thoughts. Look at Chapter one, verse twenty one. Although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him. But they became noticed this futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. So you see the mind and the heart length there. It's lost, it's it's fleshly, they'reof the flesh that those people there in verse twenty one are the people he just described in the previous few verses.

50:51 Here in chapter eight, jump. Oh, it drives me crazy. That describes all of us. But okay, okay, I won't go back to my sermons on Romans one. But I oh so so I went, hey, there's a commonality between us and lost people. But then there's no commonality because see, lost people there this way. But we we're so much better than them, We're so much better than them. Okay, oh man, okay, right, let's see how he's going to go here, because I want to know how he's going to handle the dead body concept. All right, so I gotta not interrupt here. We go down to verse twenty eight. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. Again is tying the mind. Think about what Paul just told us in chapter sevens will go along this. Remember he was struggling with the fact that he was still sinning, but his mind still was bent towards God. I keep bringing us back to that, but it's important. Look at verse twenty four or skipped over this one. Therefore, God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves. You see this continuous linking of the heart and the mind. Turnover chapter two look at verse five.

52:18 But because of your hard and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's judgment. Will be revealed. Who was he talking there in first part of verse two, talking to hypocrites, those who are pretending to be something and yet not. Yeah, that's all of Christianity. You see their hearts there. Jump down to verse fifteen. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them. So we see the heart and the mind there. That's where the identifying mark is of these two groups that Paul identified in chapter eight. Where is the heart and mind? Look at verse twenty nine. But a jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man, but from God. It's not actions that save us. It's the condition of the heart, which we know is desperately wicked.

53:28 But the condition of the heart saves us, not the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed to my account his death brown resurrection. It's the condition of my heart that saves me. So I don't look to Christ. I look to the condition of my heart. Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man. Omen As we saw in chapter three, those who belonged to him have had that heart changed, and it has been redeemed. It has had God's righteousness imputed to it.

54:13 Jump over to chapter five. Wait, who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Whoah. God's righteousness is imputed to my heart. That's not changing the heart. Okay, okay, now I'm going to lose it. Now, I'm going to lose it. Now, I'm going to lose it. God's righteousness imputed to the heart would mean God simply declares my heart to be that which it is not. It does not change the heart. The condition of the heart is not changed by imputation. Imputation is he's imputing. He's accrediting it to a heart that's not righteous. He's saying, I'm declaring your heart to be righteous, even though your heart isn't righteous. It does not change the heart. It does not transform the heart. Imputation does not change or transform anything.

55:11 Where does it say in three that he imputes righteousness to the heart. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed of the law, even the righteousness of God, which is faith of Jesus Christ, unto all upon all, for all have sinned, being justified freely by the grace through the redemption that is in Christ, Jesus, whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith and blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are passed to the forbearance of God. To declare, I say that at this time his righteousness, that it might be just and the justifier of Him, the which believes in Jesus, where is boasting. It is excluded by the law, by what law of works? Nay, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. This has nothing to do with impauty righteousness to the heart. He literally used the word imputed. Okay, we got I don't know what to say, what.

56:13 To say, I don't know what to say. Okay, we've got to get to ten. We've got to get to the dead bodies. We got to get to the dead bodies. We started with my very poor acting and misspeaking about the dead bodies. We've got to get back to the dead bodies. Paul starts to get more elaborate here or more specific. Look at chapter five, verse five, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured where into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. That's the first mention of the Holy Spirit we get, and then he saves it a little bit his work until chapter eight, where he expounds on it.

56:55 Look at chapter six. Now, though, we know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. So when he's talking about self there, he's talking about the mind and the heart. You guys have often heard me ask the question, what is it that makes you you? What is the thing? You know? People can be scarred physically and yet they don't change because the thing that makes us you is something we can't really describe it. It's it's it's not material, it's it's not even electricity. You know, if it was as simple as electricity, we can manipulate DNA, we'd be able to create life. If it was just electricity. What is it that makes you you? What does it gives you life?

57:48 We know that that is God breathing into us. That is God given. He is the one who gives life. Look in verse twelve, chapter six. Let not therefore reinwear in your mortal body to make you obey its passions. So we're seeing him begin to really separate. Now in chapter six, Wait, how. Could we let sin reign in our mortal bodies if we have a new nature and new heart, If we're a new creature, the oldest gun, everything is new. I oh boy, all right, fix the mind and the heart from the physical body.

58:32 Look at verse thirteen. Do not present your members, which we know as a reference to the human. Body or the physical body. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. Notice that verse. We've talked about this at the time. It's not a two for two comparison. He says, don't present your members to sin. But then on the other side he says, do present yourselves to God and your members to God. Well, why didn't he say, don't present yourselves to sin? Can't We're dead to sin.

59:18 That's been taken care of the inner man. The heart and the mind have been redeemed, they have been regenerated. We are new creatures already. So we can't present ourselves to sin because we've already been regenerated, and we are a new creature already. So if I'm a new creature, then where in the world is sin coming from? Why does he have to add the caveat on the other side. Because while the heart and the mind the soul have been redeemed, these bodies still struggle a little bit, right, at least some of us. I know, some of you are right there on the edge of perfection.

1:00:02 But some of us have a ways to go, all right, So the body still struggle a little bit. The body still struggle a little bit. So we're completely perfect on the inside, but the body still struggles. So this is kind of going the idea that we kind of started. The bodies struggle, all right, The bodies struggle. So everything on the inside is perfect, but we just can't get the body to work. It seems that seems to be the way this is going. Look at verse nineteen. I'm speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations. Phrase their natural limitations significant. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and the lawlessness leading the more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. Notice, you know we talked about freedom. The lost look at us as if we're trapped. But they don't even realize their slaves. Paul said, you were slaves to impurity. Now'll be slaves to righteousness. It's much more freeing, it's much more liberating. One more look at Roman seven.

1:01:18 Now read. Verse eighteen. For I know that nothing good dwells in me. It's a tough state. A lot of people struggle with that portion of chapter seven, because, well, we're Christians. There's got to be something good. You know, the Holy Spirit dwells in me. Christ dwells in me. Nothing good dwells in me. He clarifies it right there. When I say that, I mean my flesh nothing good. This body is not redeemed. Why for I have the desire? Where does the desire come from? Comes from the mind? Right, it's our mind that frustrates us. You know, our mind says you need to lose weight. But your mind also says that Twinkie looks good. Our minds are fickle beasts. But that's where desires come. But he says, I have the desire to.

1:02:17 Do what is right. I don't have the ability. My flesh is saying no, do this satisfy me. Jump down to verse twenty two. For I delight in the law of God, where in my inner being, my heart, my mind, my soul. But I see in my members my body another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells. Where in my members, wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from the body of death. He's already been delivered his heart and his mind. Verse twenty five thanks me to God through Jesus Christ, our Lord. So then I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. So now look again at verse ten.

1:03:06 In chapter eight we get back to our main text. What hopefully you'll see why we went through all of that. There that distinction between the heart, mind, soul, and the physical body is significant. That's the whole point of sanctification. Really, look at verse ten. If Christ is in you, if you are a child of God, if you've been redeemed, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. That word spirit there should be a lower case. Some of the translations have a capital S. Some of them have a lower case, as he's not talking about the Holy Spirit in that verse, talking about the spirit of the person, the spirit of the being, the human being. My body is dead, my spirit is alive. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is alive. He always has been, always will be. But that is definitely should be a lowercases. But he's showing us that even though we are redeemed, that word righteousness is key. Why is our spirit alive because we're righteous. Even though we're redeemed, we have righteousness. The flesh has not yet been. We've talked about that. That's why this parenthetical statement that he has here, that's why it's so important. Now sometimes when you see those parenthetical statements to help you understand a verse,

1:04:39 it's good to read the main sentence without the parenthetical thought, and it'll help you understand the purpose of the parenthetical thought. So look at verse ten. Let's read it without that. If Christ is in you, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Yes, we'll talk about the parenthetical in a minute. Yes, the body is still dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, your spirit is alive. Why because of righteousness? And he already established in chapter three that this righteousness the only true righteousness. It's not self righteousness. It's not our personal righteousness. It comes from outside of us.

1:05:23 He showed us back then that it was the redeeming work of the Godhead that caused this righteousness in US Romans three twenty one through twenty five. So he's not going to go with an imputed righteousness. I guess he's going to go with an infused righteousness. Right, So my spirit is alive because I'm righteous because of an infused righteousness. He said. But now the righteousness of God has been manifest apart from the law. That's the righteousness that changes lives. That's the righteousness that makes the inner being alive. See this is not he just is abandoning imputed righteousness.

1:06:06 Your spirit is alive because you have been made righteous, You have been infused with righteousness. He even used imputed as almost an infused righteousness. Imputed righteousness does not transform. Imputed righteousness does not change. Imputed righteousness doesn't do anything but declare you to be that which you are not. It's so this is Sometimes I think I'm sitting back in a Catholic university. Sometimes I think that there's no point in leaving the Catholic Church, because this is Roman Catholicism just disguised to something other. This is about infused, infused. That was the whole Protestant Reformation change. Read the London Baptist Confession of Faith or distinct. There als a distinction between imputed and infused righteousness. I believe it's in the section on justification.

1:06:55 Our righteousness filthy rags, useless, of no value. The righteousness of God eternal value. It's powerful, although the law and prophets bear witness to it. The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sin and fall short of the glory of God and are justified by His grace as a gift through the redemption that is in Christ, Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood to be received by faith. Just remember that all believers have been saved the same way. Jew Gentile Jewish believers weren't saved by obeying the law.

1:07:42 All of us have been saved by grace. By an imputed righteousness, which does not make us righteous and practice. It declares me to be that which I am not like, I don't understand what is. Maybe he's going to revert back to an imputed idea. But everything he's saying lots of the right words, but it's carrying and a meaning that's completely opposite to the right words. Let's see if he clarifies it. It's through faith, it's through the redemption that is in Christ, Jesus all of us. We see here even in this passage, that commonality between the saved and the lost. We all sin We all have sinned. Remember we three little curveball there when we looked at them. Vers We hear Romans three twenty three quoted all the time. It's the Romans road, and all have sinned. It is very true that every human being has sinned. But that's not what Paul's saying there.

1:08:49 Paul saying that jud gentile, all believers were sinners. And so let me swing this thought back around now here in Romans eight. Why are we doing all this backtracking Verses five through nine. Remember, the distinction is great between the two groups of people. They're far apart on the spectrum as they can get. But he's not ignoring the commonality, the common ground that exists for the time being both groups those unregenerate that he talked about there who have no desire to please God and are not even able to do so, and those whose minds are completely bent towards God and whose ultimate goal is to obey him completely.

1:09:43 Both of them disobey God. Both of them sin, Both of them have the capacity for sin. One group, though, is dead in their sins because their inner man is still dead. Again that rehash. They set their mind on the things of the flesh. The mindset on flesh is dead. It's hostile towards God. It's not able to please God. They are dead in their trespasses and sins. But one group here we see in verse ten, is alive because of righteousness. We as humans, we so much want to get credit for something, and so Paulard already dealt with the people who wanted credit for the salvation. He kicked that can of the curb and they had nothing to stand on.

1:10:36 So then it shifts. Okay, fine, God was responsible for my sanctification, but I'm pretty good catch though. Look at how well I obey him. Now, look at how far I'm progressing in my sanctification. We aren't alive because of our good works. We don't persevere because of our aptitude. We're alive. It's because of righteousness. And where did that righteousness come from? We go back to chapter three. It's God's righteousness. It was imputed to us, was the word. He literally placed it on our accounts. Why because our accounts were void. So okay, so he's going back to an imputed idea. Okay, that's a good thing, all right. So now I'm even more confused. All right, So I'm alive because righteousness has been accredited in my account. That does not change me.

1:11:31 That does not transform me in any way, shape or form. Let's see how if he can clarify this, then we'll have to bring this to some kind of conclusion. Vation. First of all, I had to wipe out the debt of sin, but that didn't make us righteous. That just got rid of the unrighteousness. But he imputed that righteousness, the righteousness of God, which comes through faith. And so there is a distinction between these two groups. Both groups have a capacity for sin. One is dead, one is alive. We're live because of righteousness that was imputed to us. He says that group here it is in Christ, and that group has Christ in them. If you see that in verse ten. There, So both groups sin, but there's a major difference. The inner beings or the natures, the minds, the souls are different. Who's the cause of that change?

1:12:28 The Holy Spirit? Look at verse eleven. If the spirit of him who raised Jesus. We'll stop there. I don't know if any of that makes any sense. And so we all still sin. We all still sin, but the difference is one group is completely changed on the inside, but we have a dead body. So we all still sin, but one group can actually keep the law. So I guess one group. We all still sin, but I guess one no longer has to sin, but they still sin even though they don't have anything on the inside getting them to sind. And I guess they sin because it's just our body. So then how do we get the body to work? I don't know.

1:13:20 I don't know. I'm just gonna stop there. I'm a little I I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say. I guess do we go back? Do we end this the way this all started? Do we go back to that? Do we go back to this? Is Patrol one headquarters. Come in Patrol one this is headquarters. Go ahead, Yes, I'm at the first Baptist Church. We have a weird discovery.

1:14:01 We have three hundred. They're kind of dead, but they're not really dead. I mean they're dead. We have bodies. We're confused. Oh, don't worry about it. It's people inside a church. They're confused to Nobody really understands how any of this works. Just don't worry about it. Just let them be. Just let them be. And because they think they're all perfect anyway, well, I mean I don't think they're perfect. I mean, well they think they kind of never mind, just ignore them. But they think they're better than you. I mean, well, no, they don't actually think they're better than you. I don't know. Nobody really understands. Just let them be, let them be, let them be, Just move on to another location. Right if you find dead bodies anywhere else, it'll be much easier to know what to do with them. I would love for you to grab a piece of paper and just write it out.

1:15:02 How you think this all works. How do you think it actually works? Now you have to start with the I think the starting point is nobody can be perfect, nobody can obey at least these laws. Be holy as He is holy, Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Love God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. I think we can just take those three. Love your enemy, love your neighbor as you love yourself. I think we just take those commands. I think everyone agrees. No one's even going to come. No, you're a perpetual state of sin. So you start with the fact that no one can be perfect and we're in a perpetual state of sin. Now you figure out the rest. You map it out. How does it work? Do I have a completely new nature and a completely new heart and the Holy Spirit's giving me power? Well, then why can I not get to perfection? What's keeping me from perfection? Is it my body?

1:15:46 If it's my body, then how do I get my body to work? And why is my body stronger than the Holy Spirit that's inside of me? You think the spirit inside at me would have enough power to overcome my body now, But I would love for you to map it out. And it's not even about whether you're right or wrong. I would just like to see how you think it through. How do you like, how do you you've got to process this there's some understanding you've come to in your Christian life. For the most part, most of you think you understand it, and you've been comfortable in that understanding what made you comfortable? And for me, I've never understood this in my entire Christian life. I've heard every kind of sermon, read every kind of book.

1:16:31 I've gone to seminary, Bible college, Bible institute. I've graduated from this and this, and I've gone to reform schools now reform schools. I've gone to a Catholic university. I've worked on a degree in Catholic theology. You name the philological stream, I've probably have been gone to some school learning that philological perspective and their understanding of these concepts. And when it's all said and done, it's like, well, we're still going to send but but but but but but if you could send too much, you're not saved, all right, But you have power and you can keep the law. Well, well if I can't, I don't understand it.

1:17:15 It's just it's so much talking in circles. But I will stop right there because I'm just I'm exhausted. Now, all right, thanks for listening to everyone. I wish I had a better answer. I wish I could to what to do. I wish I even knew what to say. I don't know what are you finding? And you're random sermons on Romans eight ten through eleven. Please look for please see what you're I would love to hear what you're finding. What are you getting anything better than this? Are you getting? Are you? Have you found what you feel? As an answer? In some ways, this seems more confusing than what we started with. Remember the perspective we started with. The Christian body is dead. The nature and heart has completely changed. The body can't respond to the nature, and so we need a resurrection of the body. That must happen now so that our body can respond. The problem with this view that I gave you to start with is that that don't explain how we get the resurrection.

1:18:05 And if we get the resurrection, would not not then declare that we could then be perfect. This one is saying the body is still the problem, and I guess we just have to then get the body to work right. But again, then that comes on me. If you say no, God is the one who gets the body to work, well, then why are we not perfect? So is it me or God. On one hand, it says it's not me, it's God. On one hand, he scene. I don't understand. I don't understand, or thanks for listening, everyone, have a great night. I apologize for not having better answers, but I don't really know what to do with it. I'm trying to follow it, and it just seems like you say one thing and then you backtrack, you take three steps forward and you take five steps back, like it's just so like so it's this way, well it's not this way. It's this way. Well it's not this way, and it's like, so, which is it? I know, here's you know the reason it's so confusing because no matter what the preachers want to do, they have to admit this.

1:19:03 They're still sinning and all the people they're preaching to still sin. So everyone in the congregation has to admit that they're all still sinning. Everyone has to admit that. But so then why all right, God bless