Psalm 83: Correction and Clarification

0:01 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Saturday, June the twenty second, twenty twenty four. It is currently ten forty five am Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located in Abilene, Texas. I have been studying the Bible in a very systematic and in depth way since I became a Christian in what nineteen eighty six, nineteen eighty five, somewhere around that time it was an October. I don't know exactly which year. I could probably sit down and try to figure it out.

0:49 Eighty five eighty six, somewhere around that time it was an October. And ever since then, I mean, I've told the story countless times, from the night I became a Christian, and that night I went home and read the entire New Testament, and then by the next probably within the next twenty four to forty eight hours, I had the entire Old Testament read. And then I just started reading the Bible over and over and over and over and over and over. But then I realized, Okay, I can read it, but how do you study it? And then I've told the story about walking into the Bible bookstore on Butternut Street, Abilene, Texas, looking for something, and then I find this book on twelve Dynamic Methods of Bible Study. And it was for like fifty cents. It was in the bargain bin, like nobody wanted it, nobody cared. And I purchased that book and it absolutely changed and transformed my life. And those methods of Bible study.

1:38 I have been teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching and shaping and changing and trying to make them my own for ever since then, ever since the nineteen eighties. And so not only that, then, of course, all the Bible colleges, Bible institutes, seminaries, all the schooling, and all the pursuit of Again, why am I going to all those different schools Because I want to study the Bible. I want to know the Bible. I want to understand the Bible. I want to be able to interpret it correctly. But I can honestly say this, as much as I love studying, as much as I have loved all of those years of trying to pursue an understanding of theology, scripture, church history, as much as I have loved it in one way, there are times I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. I don't know if I'm supposed to say this. But there are times I get so irritated and so frustrated about studying the Bible that I just want to throw everything across the room and say, forget it. It's a waste of time, it's useless, it's meaningless, it's an exercise in futility. Just forget it. We're all we all just prove how dumb we are. This is just ridiculous, and probably say a lot of other things.

2:54 Now. I know you're gonna be like, oh, why would you say such, Why would you say something like that? Why would you be so negative? Well, because I get so absolutely irritated about a number of things. I get irritated that after two thousand years of church history and Bible colleges, seminaries, commentaries, reference tools, churches on every street, corner, Christian radio, Christian television conferences, after all of that, after two thousand years, what do we have? We still have a Christianity that can't literally agree on anything. We don't agree on baptism, we don't agree on the Lord's Supper. We don't agree in the structure of the church. We don't even agree on the word repentance. We don't agree on salvation. We don't agree on ecclesiology, eschatology, just name theology. We don't agree on anything. Well, you know how irritating that is if no one can agree on anything? Do you know how frustrating that is? You study, you study, you study, you study, you study, and then as soon as you put forth an idea, as soon as you preach or you turn on the my road, someone's gonna say you're wrong. You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, You're always wrong. No matter what you say, someone's going to tell you that you're wrong. Someone's gonna say that you're wrong.

4:18 They don't even have to have the same level of they don't even have to have accomplished the same level of study. They don't even have to go to Bible College, they don't have to go to seminary, they don't have to write papers, they don't have to do to you. No, no, they just can tell you they're wrong, that you're wrong, just because they I don't know, read something. It's just it's maddening. So any level of expertise doesn't mean anything because someone can just tell you that you're wrong. Nobody can agree on anything. It just becomes maddening. And then to make it, even if that's not irritating enough, the thing that really just wants me to just say, forget it, I'm just going to the liquor store and I'm gonna get so today that I'm not even going to remember anything ever Again. Okay, I'm not going to actually do that, obviously, I'm trying to express in an exaggerated way my frustration, but that if it's not already irritating enough that nobody can literally agree on anything, not only is it irritating enough that all you can spend years studying, it doesn't matter.

5:23 Someone can just tell you're wrong. If all of that's not irritating enough, what really drives me crazy? As you can listen to sermon after sermon after sermon, and you will hear pastors make claims about the meaning of a Greek word, make claims about the meaning of a Hebrew word, make claims about some kind of historical setting, make claims about the Bible. And then, after you like continue to study, you find out that the claims are absolutely fraudulent and wrong. It's not just that they made a mistake, it's just absolute falsehood. It's just absolutely not correct. That can drive me just to start screaming because forget me. What is the average person sitting in the PU supposed to do is if you can't really trust what pastors are saying, because they're just absolutely providing fraudulent information. I've heard pastors say something about the church fathers and you go search and search and search and like a church father never even said that, or did you read the next sentence. Or they'll say something about a Greek or Hebrew word like that is just not even an accurate representation of what are you talking about. Or they'll say this, or they'll make this claim and make this claim, and you'll be like, no, that's not true, that's not true. And at some point you're like, you know what, forget it, just forget it. We can't agree on anything, and we don't even seem to want to pursue some level of being as accurate as we can be. And sometimes when you then call them out,

6:54 they just get mad at you. I can remember a local church, you can hear my frustration this morning. I'm just very frustrated by everything. I remember a local church, you know, it was an Assemblies of God church, and they were preaching some sermon and they talked something about the Trinity and they said one God manifesting in three different ways. And I'm like, that's straight up modalism, that's Abelianism. So I emailed them and they basically just told me, doesn't matter. You're being nitpicky and ignored, and like, you just literally promoted the ancient heresy of modalism and you don't care. Did they come back and apologize, did they take down the message? No, they did not care. So sometimes it was studying the Bible just feels like, why we're wasting our time. I could pursue anything and be it would be better. And I am frustrated today because we've stumbled upon one of those exact same situations. And I feel stupid because I kind of fell for it, at least temporarily. Now. I kept I kept stating over and over and over my hypotheses, my thesis, not that I never stated it in a dogmatic way at least, And if someone can go back and listen to the recordings, if I did, you can correct me, and I got no problem apologizing. The reason I'm turning on the microphone right now and I'm very frustrated and irritated is because this is another example why I get so irritated and studying the Bible. But we all know, let's go back in time, let's put this all together. Are you ready? I had a

8:26 day where I was going to have to be driving all over the place, So before I got in my car, I'm like, hey, it's the Sermon's two point oho AP Sermon Challenge of twenty twenty four. Let me download, you know, fifteen sermons so that I have them ready to go so I can listen to them as I'm driving from place to place to place or sitting in a parking lot. So I did that, and I stumbled upon a sermon entitled the Coming Middle East War, and I'm like, oh, that sounds interesting. And then it became even more interesting because it said Psalm eighty three the Coming Middle East War. And I'm like, wait, Psalm eighty three predicts a coming Middle East war. Okay, I must have missed this somewhere in Bible college or seminary or somewhat. How did I miss this right. So we started listening to those sermons, and once again it led a little bit of frustration, didn't it. Because after two plus hours or three hours ever how many hours we spent doing review on those messages, they never really explained how it was talking about a coming Middle East war. In fact, it turned into more about what we're doing now. It was really it was really frustrating. So I said, you know what, you know what, let's just forget that they've handed us PSAWM eighty three. Let's start doing some work on Psaw many three. So we started doing some work.

9:43 Somewhere in the midst of this, I don't have the chronological order written down. I could have written down an outline to put it in proper chronological order. Somewhere in all of this we stumbled upon a sermon that suggested that Psalm eighty three, well, I think they stated Psalm eighty three per dicted or was fulfilled in Second Chronicles, chapter twenty. I think that was the original way they said it, and I'd had a lot of problems with that wording or how they were stating it, like which comes first? I wait, is that? I don't know? Okay, Well, maybe that would work. And so I kept kind of struggling a little bit with that. Right, So then we kept and we kept trying to draw this correlation between Saw eighty three and Second Chronicles twenty. I gave everyone a couple of assignments.

10:26 I said, look, if you can find anywhere where the King and Second Chronicles twenty calls in Asaf or mentions ass acef, because Aceph is the author of Psaw eighty three. If you do not know if the King and Second Chronicles twenty, which is johosephat if he called in Aceph, if he mentions asef, if you can find that, let me know. And there was a reason why I gave you that assignment, and I told you to make a chart comparing a contrasting Second Chronicles twenty and Saw eighty three. Because we start kind of put forth the hypotheses. Is it possible that Psalm eighty three, the historical setting of Psalm eighty three is Second Chronicles twenty, Right, we kind of put forth that hypothesis. And the reason we put forth that hypothesis is because what we were hearing in some sermons, right, we were hearing this in some sermons, and even a number of sources kind of pointed that, hey, there's a quote a set of looking to a future Middle East war, which we kind of just gave up on that perspective, but I gave everyone the opportunity. If you can find Psaw eighty three being quoted in the New Testament pointing to something future, then by all means will reconsider that hypothesis. But we kind of set aside the hypothesis that psawmighty three is promote is predicting a coming Middle East war. We kind of set that aside, right especially not only just because of the language used in Psaw maighty three is talking about something past and present, not something future. All right,

11:56 so we kind of, you know, all right, we were done with that. But then the Second Chronicles twenty things still started really becoming the prominent hypotheses. So I kind of kept putting forth the idea that, hey, Saw eighty three maybe maybe the historical setting for Saw Maty three, maybe Second Chronicles twenty. And again, the reason I started going this direction is because there were sermons that were connecting the two together. Right. In fact, even mentioned that jojosaph fact called in Asa. So I started looking at all of this and then I kind of started going with it. So then today this morning, I'm like, you know what I think tomorrow at Victory Baptist Church, what I'm going to do for the first hour. Because I gave everyone this assignment and I haven't heard back from many people, maybe I'll just go all in and we'll do a comparing contrast during the Sunday school hour of Second Chronicles twenty and Saw eighty three. Right, So I started putting forth my preliminary kind of introductory outline where we would do some of the basics.

12:56 Right, what have they said in church history about comparing and contrasting these? Okay, it is Psaw maybe three is Second Chronicles twenty, you know the historical setting for Psalm eighty three. So I started doing some research and then I came across some information and I'm like, oh my goodness, this is this is an impossibility. This just cannot work. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go back to one of the sermons that we've already reviewed. I'm gonna start it back. Now. I could go immediately to the time stamp and just go right to the statement. But if I go right to the statement, someone will then accuse me of taking it out of context, so we're gonna back up. I don't want to take too long, so I'm not gonna do a lot of interrupting because we've already interrupted this countless times.

13:50 I'm hoping it happens closer to the beginning. My studio software it does weird things with the time stamps, weird things, So sometimes all I can do is queue it up at a certain point and just let it go. So I don't know how far away we are from the actual comment, but we're going to just let it develop and then we're going to just try to offer some correction and clarification. But it just once again demonstrates my sometimes why studying the Bible can be just absolutely maddening and frustrating. And I've already articulated the reasons why it can be that way, but here's going to be another example. So our entire hypothesis is crumbled. Now that's I'm one way.

14:31 That's a good thing, because that's what we try to do here, right, and I've really tried to. It's one of those things you never know. Whenever I come up with this is what we're going to focus on. You never know what the reaction is going to be. Sometimes the reaction is everyone jumps on board and they're like, yeah, this is awesome. And sometimes, like with Saw eighty three, it's been very quiet, meaning people aren't that interested in SAW eighty three, which then only motivates me to do more because it tells me if people aren't interested in it, that almost screams to me, well there's a problem, because I guarantee you if I went to the average person and asked them basic questions about PSAWM eighty three, they would not get them right. But a lot of times what generates the interest is when you go to a chapter that's been studied nine thousand times because well, for some reason, people are interested in that chapter. So, but all scripture is given by inspiration and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction and righteousness, that the Man of God maybe thoroughly furnished into every good work. That so that means we need to look at it. So let's go back to this. We've already reviewed this once, so you may remember this, you may not remember this, but we're going to try to. We're going to see what happens now. The goal here is not to I'm not going to even give the name. I'm not going to do anything here because the goal here is not to be critical of any one person. The goal here is not to attack. The goal is to clarify, but it is to demonstrate the sometimes frustration with Bible setting, because

16:10 you can get told so many things. But let's see if we can detect it. Are you ready? Here we go and so Saw eighty three tonight, if you got your Bible Saw eighty three, let's stand real quick in reverence of the word. Have gone tonight Saw eighty three. If you can listen fast, I'm gonna preach fast. I'm we'll run through this chapter quickly. The Bible says in verse number one of Psaw eighty three, keep not thou silence, O God, hold not thy peace, and be not steel, O God, for low thine enemies make a tumult. And they that hate thee have lifted up the head. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people and consulted against thy hidden ones. They have said, come and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be no more In remembrance. For they have consulted together with one conceal.

17:00 They are confederate against thee the Tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites of Moab, and the Hagarenes, Deball and Amen and Amelek, the Philistines, with the inhabitants of Tiree. Asher also is joined with them. They have hopen the children of lot Selah do unto them, as under the Midianites, as to Cesarah, as to Jabin. At the brook of Kisson, which perished at Aindore, they became as dung for the earth. Make their nobles like, orif like Zev and Yea, all their princes, as ZeVA and Zalmuna, who said, let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession, Oh My God, make them like a wheel, as the stubble before the wind, as the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire. So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm. Feel their faces with shame, that they may seek Thy name. O Lord, Let them be confounded and troubled forever. Yeay, let them be put to shame and perish, that men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, arn't the most high over all the earth. Father. We love you. We're so grateful for the privilege we have to gather this evening. Blessed now the preaching of your word in Jesus' name. Amen and amen, you can be seated now. This song saw Mad three is a very interesting song because when all these things started happening in Israel, a lot of people started reaching out to me and saying things.

18:33 I remember when we were there again, the rockets happening is going on, And one man reached out to me, a friend of mine, he says, do you realize that all these nations that are gathering together today are what you find in Ezekiel thirty eight and thirty nine, GoGG and Magog? And he was all excited about it. My wife, she says, Listen, she says, you know, he may be excited being six thousand miles away from it, but being three miles it's not that exciting. I don't want to hear another thing about it. But you know, when you look at that, and a lot of people were speculating, is this Gog and Magog? It's not Gog and magog because the nations that are though, we're seeing an alignment and a joining together of all these nations. Understand that those nations that are mentioned in Ezekiel thirty eight and thirty nine are not Arab nations.

19:21 They're not at all mini Muslim, but not Arab nations. What we are seeing now is Arab nations that are rising against Israel and so, but understand that this war, and if you remember, we had some weird things going on with some of the sermons we're listening to, that these people are not Arab, but then we looked and like everything classified them as Arab. So we already got into some weird stuff, and even in our listening that at that point, I wasn't very frustrated. I just like, Okay, where is that coming from? Like you said, these people aren't Arab, but if I look up anything, it's like they're classified as Arab, their traditions are Arab. So like, so now I'm not thinking that's what he was doing, because I don't remember which sermon from which, because we've reviewed and I've listened to so many. So but again, it just all right, So let's just see where he's going to go. Let's just see where he's going to go. Is not a battle against Arab and jew It is not a battle against Islam and Judaism, is not that at all. It is a war on terrorism, is what it is. And it is a war specifically focusing as it was focusing down in the Gaza area towards Amas, but now up and towards Hezbela, up in the Lebanon area. You see, they are all just simply proxies of Iran. Now, Iran does not liking Brother Michael would tell you this. He says that Iranians do not like Arabs.

20:48 They're not Arabs, they're Persian. They are not Arabs at all, and they don't like them. They look down upon them. But and again, what we talked about this when I think I reviewed this is we're in PSALMITI three and the next thing, you know, we're talking about what's going on in Israel and Hamas and Gaza, and you're like, okay, can we get to Psalm eighty three right now? I'm not gonna. I'm you know, we know he's gonna ultimately get to Psalmadi three. But so many of our discermons we've reviewed It's been very frustrating because it's supposed to be about Psalmity three and the next thing you know, it's being it's talking up, they're talking about the church, or they're talking about I don't know, rock and roll and the length of women's skirts, and you're like, what is going on? Can we just get to Psalm eighty three? Right? So it's been it's been fascinating to watch, to listen to to so much of this. But let's let's see if we can get to the part that I think we need to correct. You know, what they will do, they will unite together for one purpose, and that is the annihilation of Israel.

21:51 That is their desire. But this Psalm here is another song that everybody loves to go to. And they would ask the questions, are we witnessing and event of Ssaw eighty three taking place? Some will say, and I've got good friends that'll even say this, that there's a battle that's going to happen. Some will even say before the rapture, and some say before the tribulation of Saw eighty three. Now again, so this this once again brought back the concept that Saw eighty three that some that some say it's predicting some coming war. And again it's it's everyone. Nobody offers any real tangible proof for why they say this so far. Now, maybe we can keep listening to sermons. Right, In fact, why I told everyone else to be listening to as many sermons on SAW eighty three and let me know what you find.

22:40 So far, No one who's put forth the hypotheses that SAW eighty three is promoting a future war. No one has provided any evidence of of anything in fact that so that I'm still frustrated by that. In fact, that's why we kind of just moved on from that hypothesis, because even the sermons it seemed to refer to it as a coming Middle East war, didn't bother to provide any information that would make it about a coming Middle East war. In fact, they started talking more about now than any coming Middle East war. So I got frustrated with that. Instead of pursuing more study of that, I said, okay, well let's just look, you know, let's just continue to see what else we can find. And this is when the second Chronicles twenty connection begins to emerge in a number of sermons, and I'm like, okay, this hypothesis makes a little bit more sense. Well, I thought, well, I don't think any event has to happen for the raps or the church. That's the next event. Acting nothing has to take place, no red Heifer, No nothing has to happen, no eclipse, no nothing. Listen, Jesus is coming and nothing's gotta happen for that to happen. Nothing does. That's why we believe in the imminent return of the Lord Jesus Christ and so. But anyway, they'll refer to this psalm, but no disinteresting here in Psalm eighty three, he says, and he starts off a psalm a song or psalm of a seth. I believe this psalm was fulfilled, not in nineteen forty eight, as some will hold, or nineteen sixty seven is so others would hold, or either in a future event.

24:14 It is an event that was fulfilled in Second Chronicles, chapter number twenty. It was there in Second Chronicles twenty when Jahasafat and all these nations that's mentioned here. It talks about Ammon and some of these others. They're coming over to Angetti and they're coming out to destroy Israel. They're trying to get as the Bible says their inheritance. That so he puts forth the hypotheses that Psalm eighty three was fulfilled in Second Chronicles twenty. That is alf that Psalm eighty three predicts it in a sense, and then it's fulfilled in Second Chronicles twenty. So I kind of struggled with, Okay, well, is this a prediction? Is this a prediction? But then others state things that to me would make it sound like it's not that Psalm eighty three is predicting a second Chronicles twenty. A second Chronicles twenty is a fulfillment, but that Second Chronicles twenty is the historical setting for Psalm eighty three based off some things that are said. Let's keep listening and see if something like that is said.

25:19 That is the land, and so they're coming out to take the land away, that's their desire. Jehasaphat began to seek the Lord. He began to pray unto God, and all of a sudden he called in the choir leaders, and he called in Asath, and he called them in, and he got the singers, and the singers started singing. And you know what God did when they started singing, He sit an ambushment, and God defeated the enemies. Did you hear what he said that Jehosaphat called in Asath? He called him in now the minute he said that, I was like, well, then Saw eighty three is not predicting Second Chronicles twenty. Saw eighty three is written in the context if Asef was called in to sing, to compose something, then Saw eighty three would have been the communal lament that he composed, right, that would have been That would have been it. So if he called him it So at that point I'm like, okay, well, this is great because this takes it away from looking to a coming Middle East war. And now he just provided a hypothesis that puts Acef literally in the midst of the event of Second Chronicles twenty. He's literally right there in the midst of it. And I'm like, okay, that's great. So I started looking up some resources. Right, one resource said this. Asaf was alive during the reign of King Jehosaphat. Acef was a prominent figure in the

26:55 Old Testament, known for his role as one of the chiefly vites appointed by King Day to lead worship in the tabernacle and temple. His name is associated with the Psalms, as he is believed to be the author of several psalms, including some in the Book of Psalms. Jehosephat reigned over over the Kingdom of Judah from around eight seventy three to eight forty nine BC. According to biblical chronology, Asaf's involvement in leading worship during the time of David suggests that he lived a period lived during a period that predated King Jojosepha's reign. Therefore, it is likely that Asaf was alive during the reign of King Jojosephath. So I'm like, okay, I've got a sermon, I've got information.

27:36 I'm like, okay, okay. So maybe I don't know why he's saying. Psalm eighty three predicts it because if Johosepha is right there in the midst of it, and he's the worship leader and he is to compose worship, well, then here's the limit for the community, for the congregation for Israel. All right, So problem sol, I've done so. Now all we have to do is compare and contrast and see exactly how these two chapters saw mayighty three and psychond Chronicles twenty, how much they have in common, and then we can see how God answered the prayer of Psawm eighty three. This is awesome, this is great. It's gonna be a great Sunday school lesson.

28:18 It's gonna be a great Sunday school lesson. But see I could not leave it alone. See, this is what always gets me in trouble, is why, and this is why sometimes I can get so frustrated. So when I came up here this morning, you know, I was sitting here going okay, right, So how do I want to approach this tomorrow at Victory Baptist Church. How do I want to approach this? Right? So let me do this. Let's let's go through kind of the basic theory, the basic idea. So I started putting things together right In fact, in my notes that I put together at early this morning, around eight fifty five am, I think, or somewhere around that time I put I entitled my notes Psalm eighty three and Second Chronicles twenty. The relationship between Second Chronicles twenty I saw many three is indeed a subject of scholarly debate and speculation. While there is no explicit or direct connection stated in the Biblical tech. Some scholars have theorized that Psalm eighty three may have been inspired or composed in response to the events described in Second Chronicles twenty. I'm like, okay, well then that fits. That fits with what I have been saying, That fits with this hypothesis. Okay, all right, so this is gonna be This is gonna be a good Sunday school class. So what I need to do now is I just need to look at some points. So I put things down, like similar themes, historical contexts, literary connections, shared traditions, all

29:48 right. But then but then I was like, but I'm still not sure, Like could acef. I know I've got a pastor saying that Johoseph fat called him in, But where is he getting that from? I don't know any am I missing something where Jehoseph as is like Asaf come in? I don't know if I have any record of that? So how could the pastor say it in such a dogmatic way? So it just kept bothering me. It kept bothering me. So I'm like, and I know, I've got other sources that seem to indicate Asaph is a lot. So I just started doing a little bit more work, and I found this. According to biblical chronology and traditions, Asaff was believed was believed have lived during the time of the king and continued his musical musical ministry throughout the reigns of subsequent queens and subsequent kings, including King Solomon. Now, when I read that, it was written kind of weird, but I was like, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute. Okay, if he's through the reign of Solomon, would you even would he have been there for Jehosephat. So then I start thinking, wait the time thing, he's there during the reign of David and the reign of Solomon, but he's going to be there for Jehosaphat. And I'm like, I don't know now. Now, now I'm starting to get a little suspicious, and I'm like, okay, wait a minute. So then I started looking the exact and I find this. The exact timeline of Asaf's life is not explicit explicitly in the Biblical text, but

31:22 based on the context of the psalms attributed to him and his association with the Tabernacle worship, it is unlikely that Asaf was alive during the reign of King Jehosephe. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute, now, wait a minute, how can I have a pastor saying Jehoseph Fat called in Asaf if Asaf's not even alive, And how how come I got another source telling me no, no, he was. I'm like, we can't even agree whether the man was alive or dead? Like, how how is anyone supposed to study the Bible if we can't even if we don't even know if a person was alive or dead, and we go around making dogmatic as This is the thing that drives me crazy about the Bible. But when you start questioning everything and you put forth questions and you challenge everything, then people get mad at me and say, how dare you question anything? No, but that's why you have to constantly challenge in question because if you want truth, and this is what can make Bible study literally one of the most frustrating, frustrating activities on the face of the earth. But let's do a little bit more reading. King Jojosah Fat reigned over Judah in the ninth century BCE or BC. I know some Christians get met if you say BCE, But all right, several generations after King Josephat reigned several generations after David and Solomon several generations. Now I'm like, wait a minute, if he rains several generations after, then how is Asaf still there? Like okay, I'm and he's

32:54 still in charge of the worship. And I'm like, I'm I'm Now now I'm starting to have like, you know, you know, a small panic attack. I'm like, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait, how did I not? Then I get mad at myself, like, you know, you just you can't trust what you hear insermons. You just cannot trust what you hear in sermons. Okay, But then I'm like, why are other sources gave me fraudulent information as well? So now I'm getting really irritated, right, But I keep I keep, I keep doing more research, and then I read this where is it? I put it in my notes. Asaf is traditionally viewed as a contemporary of David and a prominent figure in the period of the early Israelite monarchy. Therefore, it is generally understood that Asaf's ministry and contributions to the Psalms occurred before the time of King Jehosaphat.

33:47 Right, well, okay, now wait a minute, but all right. While Asaf's exact lifespan and historical context remains somewhat ignomatic, ignomatic if I can speak speak the word correctly, his legacy as a revered musician, worship leader, and composer of psalms have endured throughout the Biblical canon. Through the Biblical Cannon, the psalms attributed to Asaf continue to be treasured for their spiritual depth, poetic beauty, and thematic richness that resonates with readers across generations. Okay, still, that doesn't give me anything dogmatic, so I'm like, okay, I mean more information. Asaf, the author of Psalm of some psalms, including Psalm eighty three, was indeed alive during the reign of King David. However, when it comes to the events and Second Chronicles twenty during the ring of King Jehosaphat, Asaff would not have been alive at that time.

34:45 And then I was like, but I just heard a sermon and told me that Jehosaphat literally called the man in. He obviously didn't call him in if he was dead, So then I'm like, okay, come on. Now got to be able to figure something out. We've got to be able to figure something out, right. So I'm like, okay, I got to do more. I got to do more work, right. The Biblical account places Asaf as a contemporary King David and one of the leaders appointed by David to oversee worship in the tabernacle. Asaf's influence in the realm of worship is primarily associated with the time of David and Solomon, not later periods like the reign of Jehosaphat. During the reign of Jehosaphat, it was likely that other levites of musicians would have been in charge of worship, as Asaf and his descendant roles were more prominent during the time of David and Solomon. Therefore, while Asaf may have been alive during David's reign, he would not have been present or in charge of worship during the events of Second Chronicles twenty and the time of Jehosaphat. So, in other words, the hypotheses literally collapses and falls absolutely apart, and then, just to drive the point home, continue to look. King Jehosaphat reigned from eight seventy three to eight forty nine BC. As Asaf was a contemporary of David, who reigned around one ten to nine seventy BC. It is estimated that Asaff would have likely died several decades before the reign of King Jehosaphat. Using these dates as a reference,

36:22 it can be estimated that Asaf would have likely died around nine thirty to nine twenty BC or earlier, which would have been several decades before King Jehosaphat's reign even began. Now, ladies and gentlemen, that's maddening. I'm sorry. Hitting the microphone, that's maddening. I want to hit the microphone. I want to rip the microphone off its arm and throw it across the room along with everything else. So I guess we could then backtrack, see, And that's what's so confusing that, Remember, that was what was confusing me about some of the sermons they kept saying. Psalm eighty three predicted second Chronicles twenty.

37:19 Right, a second Chronicles twenty was the fulfillment of Psalm eighty three. The Psaw eighty three was prophetic. But then they would turn around and put Aceph right there in the midst of the events. Well, then, why would you say it's predictive. If he's right there in the midst of the events and he's called in to sing and to worship, and he's the worship leader, well then that was what he composed. Then that would put Psaw eighty three in the historical context. But now we know no Aceph was dead before Jehosaph fact, so then you could argue, is this predictive? The only problem about making it predictive is the language is not predictive. It's a communal lamit. It's not a prophetic psalms. It's a lament psalm. And he's not sting about what will happen. He's using words. Lord. Aceph is saying, Lord, right, I need you to speak now, because your enemies are making a tumult. Now, they who hate you, they're lifted up their head. They have taken Crafty council together. Aceph is talking about something going on. Well, he's alive, he's he's speaking a limit for the people at that time. Remember, we did a whole thing about past, present, future. So the correction that I need to issue here is that Psalm eighty three, the historical context for Psau eighty three, cannot be second Chronicles twenty. It cannot the events of Second Chronicle twenty happens decades after Asaf I think they or generations after I. I don't want to use

38:50 the incorrect way years later Acep's during the I'm a David maybe through Solomon, but he's not there for Johoseph fats Rain. So you either have to make it predictive. And if it's predictive, well then you can't call it a lament palm. You'd have to call it a prophetic psalm. But the language is not speaking of something prophesying. It's speaking of a current event, a current situation, making then the event of Psalm eighty three not connected to Second Chronicles, Chapter twenty. No matter how many things may be in common, they may have a common There may be some things that are in common that we can compare and contrast, but it's not the same event. One is not predicting the other, and one is not the fulfillment of the other, and one is not written in the historical context of the other. They are completely separate. And Asaff most likely it appears, and I'll still stated as a hypothesis, is Dad Jehosah fact did not call him in. I don't know where that came from. Now, it's a high probability just made a mistake, which is fine, right. I understand when you're speaking live, you can get names mixed up, places mixed up, you can say things

40:22 incorrectly. I do it all the time. So but what just drives me crazy is we had multiple I think multiple, multiple sermons. I'm going to lose my voice. We had multiple sermons connecting so many three with Second Chronicles twenty, multiple ones, but none of the ones that we listened to bothered to even deal with the chronological issues here. And I had more other sources putting asaf right there in the event of Second Chronicles twenty. And there's just no way not just think about this. How in the world is the average person supposed to study the Bible? How are we ever going to come to the understanding if we can't get it right now? This is I want to drive this point home. This is why I get so irritated when you have a large number of Christians who make these ridiculous claims like the God God's going to lead us into all truth and the Holy Spirit gives us understanding and the Holy Spirit helps us understand the Bible and the and so when pastors per, Lord, help me say what you want me to say, and keep me from saying what you don't want to say, guide us, teach us.

41:35 If he's guiding, teaching, and telling you what to say, then why is it that we can't get anything right? And not only do we say things that are completely fraudulent. Nobody can agree on anything. If God's leading, guiding, directing, and literally telling us what to say, then there should be one hundred percent doctrinal unity, and there's not. So God is not intervening that way, and anyone who thinks they are are just denying the reality around us. God has given us his word. It's our job to figure it out, and it requires lots of tedious work. And these are the kinds of things that nobody wants to deal with because they're not fun sermons, they don't have three points, they're not all the trash that people could criticize me for. And I'm going to criticize their criticism as being trash because this is the kind of tedious work that must be done. If you want any meaningful understanding of the text. We have to figure these very You almost see them as useless information. Just give me, just give me something, an application. Well I understand we want an application, but we got to want to know the truth first. So in some ways, I'm glad I discovered this at around eight something am this morning, because my entire Sunday school lesson would have been a waste of absolute time. That's why you can never oh the lesson you get to take from this. You can never rely on your past understanding when you presently study. We've been studying Saw eighty three all

43:06 week, and guess what I did on this day. I tried to ignore everything that I just learned this week, like even though I just learned it this week, in a sense, you know, I studied it this week. On this day, I rejected the past understanding to pursue new understanding because it just did not sit right with it. It just did not make sense. Even though at first I was like, Oh, this solves all the problems, because that sounded so great. Oh Asaf was alive. Well then hello. Saw eighty three was then composed during the events of Second Chronicles twenty and Second Chronicles twenty gives us the rest of the story. As Paul Harvey used to say, because it tells us how God answered the prayer. We've solved it. Well, guess what, No, we did not. That's completely erroneous. That was it was a flawed hypotheses. It was completely in error. It was completely wrong, And I was an idiot to even entertain the hypothesis. I was a complete full for entertaining it. I should have caught it almost. I should have caught it immediately, And I don't know why I did. It just threw me off when he said because I was so what I was afraid of. When he said Jehosaph fact called in Asaf, I immediately went into panic mode, thinking, wait, how did I miss this? How did I miss this? I started thinking like, wait

44:37 a minute, is there something in the Bible that I felt like I was an idiot because I missed it? Well, no, I wasn't an idiot because I missed anything. I couldn't. I could not have missed that part where Jehosaphact called in Asaf because it never occurred. Because it looks like it appears as of this day, June the twenty second, twenty twenty four, that Asaf was dead. He could not have been called in. That's one of those cases, I should have probably been a little bit more instead of being like, ooh, I could have been wrong. I should have been more forceful and said no, I know that's not the case. I know that never happened. But I'm always worried that I may have missed something, because I mean, the Bible, you know, no matter how many years you've been reading and studying it, at least for me, my my biggest area, my biggest weakness and Bible study is always trying to keep all the names straight right, Okay, this king lived when? Okay? And who was associated with him? Like trying to keep all the names right. You got Asaf Jehosaphat, you got, you got the names of all of these nations, the Ammonites, the Philistines, and you got you got all of all of this stuff, especially in the Saw eighty three references things that happened in the Book of Judges, and it's like, oh man, I got names and places and events and chronological order. Some of that can get very convoluted, especially when you get into kings and chronicles and and some of those.

46:00 Yeah, things can get all turned around. So I was fearful that I completely missed. When Jojosaphat called an Asap, I was convinced that admit, but then I realized he didn't give a reference to that. So I'm glad that I kept questioning it. So it seems like Psaw eighty three has no connection to Second Chronicles twenty other than similar themes or similar concepts or similar ideas. But it's not. Saw Maity three was not predicting Second Chronicles twenty or predicting the event that was fulfilled in Second Chronicles twenty. Sawmity three does not fall into the historical context of Second Chronicles twenty, and Asaf was dead before Johosephat began to rain. At the same time, I reject the idea that psalm Mati three is predicting a coming war. It's clearly articulating something that was happening during the life of Asaf. If Second Chronicles twenty happened during the life of Asaf, you could see then why that would be an easy way to solve the all the debate, dispute and debate over it would be like this is simple, But it appears it wasn't the case. Now guess what, I'm ready to correct this correction if I can find additional information, But it sounds like most of the sources now are pretty dogmatic that Acef would not have been alive, especially if you have him during the Ring of I mean,

47:31 you've got King, you've got David, Din, you've got Solomon. Joe's fact comes way later. So there's I think. I think, just from a logical perspective, even if face Aff would have been alive, it would have been it wouldn't have been the leader of the worship at that time. There's no way. And I don't even know how old he would have been. You'd have to count how many years from David to Jehosephat. Well, he could probably do the math. Some of you are better at doing math than me. You could probab figure out how long from David's reign to jehosah Fat beginning to reign. How many years was that? Well, how old was Jehosaphat when he was put in charge of the worship during David's reign, Well, then you say he was even if you go with a very early age of twenty, how old would he have been then by the time johost Fat You could start figuring out the math for those who want to do even more research, and it's very worth your time. But what can we take away from this? Well, can we take away from this a couple of things. Number One, whatever you hear me say or any other preacher say, it's your response. Look, unless we're going to go back to Catholicism and you're going to accept a magisterial authority that has the authority to offer the interpretation, if you're going to reject that concept, well, in the Protestant world, no matter how much we like it or not, it's your problem. It's your responsibility. You cannot trust what you here preached because those preachers may we do not have magisterial authority. So it's upon you to study

49:02 to know with what's being said is true. Now which again then kind of which then raises the question, what's the purpose of church If you've got to sit there and then not only listen to a sermon, then go home and verify if everything in the sermon was correct, what's the point of going to church in the first place? I think it does. It does begin to cause some issues right there, all right. At the same time, the people in the church are supposed to maintain some kind of authority. It just becomes maddening. But you can't trust what you hear. You've got to check it. Second. It just demonstrates that even if you learn something on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, when it's Saturday morning and you're still dealing with the same subject, don't rely on what you just learned. You got to constantly be challenging and questioning and pursuing. You've got to remain teachable, you've got to remain humble, and you've got to be willing to turn on a microphone and go, hey, guys, our entire hypothesis that I that thought was true or at least was plausible, has fallen completely apart, and I take full responsibility for it. I was stupid.

50:05 I just immediately I went into the way of thinking, like, how did I miss Asaf being there during the time of Jehosaphet? How did I miss this? And then I don't know why some sources were agreeing with that, but it sounds like the large number of sources completely contradict that, and the math I think is beginning to become clear. There's no way Acef was alive, and even if he was. There is no way he was called in by Jehosaphet to compose this communal lament at least I don't think it would be impossible. Now, that's what we learned from this today. Now we're not going to stop working on Saw eighty three. Now we still have work to do. I just got to change my entire Sunday school lesson now, which was going to be SAW eighty three has Second Chronicles twenty. Ladies and gentlemen, let's consider Second Chronicles twenty as the historical as the historical setting for Psalm eighty three. Let's look at the what they have in common and look at what they have different. I am glad that I could not let it rest about the ASAF situation. I'm glad I could not let it go. I am glad I could not let it go. I am so glad just so because I would have made a I would have been a complete idiot, is what I would have done. And you talk about so close to making myself out to be a complete idiot, so close the entire Sunday school lesson would

51:37 have been. I would have had to delete that, oh man. I would have just went from church to the liquor store. Okay, so there you go. But that's I'm look, well, this is the case. I wish others of would have been able to figure this out this week and have discovered this, but no one else did. I'm glad I stumbled upon it because I would have been in trouble, and I I hope that you didn't just immediately just assume all of this that you have been at least challenging it or questioning it. But we will continue to do work. We're going to figure out saw Many three to the best of our ability. We may never have the historical setting for it, and that's okay, all right.

52:21 I don't know what else to say. If you listen to any other sermons that connect Psalm eighty three with Second Chronicles twenty, and they put forth the concept that Aceph was called in by Jehoseph fat or was alive or witnessed it, let me know if they say that it was simply Asaph was dead, but this is his prophetic prediction of Second Chronicles twenty. What is their support of that? And if you hear something on saw Many three that says so Many three is predicting a future war, what is their support for that. It's just weird. Either you have it goes so far. We've been given too major hypotheses. It's predicting a war uh in the future, or it's predicting well, I'm sorry, let's state it this way. It was predicting a war in the future for the Asaph which happened in Second Chronicles twenty, or was predicting a war that is going to happen even in our future.

53:15 So I guess both. I guess both cases. Psalm eighty three then would be predicting a future war. If you make it a prophetic sum I just I don't think it's prophetic. I think it's a communal lament. It's not a prophetic one. It's describing something that was going on at the time. I just thought it was possible to then take Asaff and put him in the midst of Second Chronicles twenty. Then it would have made perfect since and that hypothesis is wrong. That's how you have to do study. You've got to put forth hypotheses and question and challenging test and never stop doing it. So you say, well, what have we studied Saw eighty three? Next year, I'm going to throw out everything we were talking about today, and we would start over brand. I knew I would not rely on any past notes or even any of my past sermons. They said, well, what happens of next year? You come to a completely different meaning. That's called study.

54:10 That's okay. I'd rather be wrong every year until I finally get it right, then to be wrong every year thinking that I was right, okay, because then I can never correct it. All right, I'm frustrated. Now I got to figure out. I got to change everything now. So that's what I'm going to do. Thanks for listening. You can email me your thoughts on all of this news. I f at Yahoo dot com NEWSI f at Yahoo dot com. That's news. I f at Yahoo dot com. And all I can challenge you to do is continue to study, be better at studying than you were the day before, and let us all pursue truth and be willing to admit when we're wrong. Thanks for listening. God bless