Prayer, Tragedy, and Sovereignty Pt 1

0:01 All right, this morning, back to Psalm eighty three. We'll be taking a slight detour from where we have been, but I think we have to based on a number of factors. But Psalm eighty three, that's just a kind of a quick reminder of where we are. Obviously, we identified Psalm eighty three as a communal lament, and we see that primarily in verse one. All Right, we have identified, and we have argued, no matter how many other sermons disagree with me, that Psalm eighty three is a lament due to circumstances facing those people at that time. All Right, it's not prophetic, it's talking about a situation at that time. Where Asaph's kind of the worship leader under David impossibly at the beginning reign of Solomon, that he composes this lamit to put voice to the concerns, fears, worry, the emotions of the people, and he cries out to God because they obviously feel God has not been involved in the situation, so he cries out to God.

1:12 He then begins to describe the character, the characteristics and attributes of the enemy, which we've gone through that numerous times. He obviously explains kind of what's happening that these enemies, after describing their characteristics and attributes, one of the things that they've done, they have consulted together. They are working together. They've formed a confederacy, all right, and then he names really all the people who are a part of this confederacy. Then, starting in verse nine, which is where we have been. Starting in verse nine, he calls for God to act in the present how he has acted in the past.

1:57 Okay, So, I mean, it's pretty simple, pretty straightforward. Why there's so many difficulties in SAW eighty three, I don't know, but it's simple. It's pretty straightforward. But we can see that it. I mean, I don't I don't understand why there's any complexity, but it's pretty simple and pretty straightforward. So then the issue came. Okay, so if we look at saw maty three and we kind of understand its basic structure and this basic understanding, what do we do. Do we just say, okay, well, SSAW eighty three talks about a particular situation and this is how they cried out to God. Here's two or three lessons we can learn from it. Or do we try to find more application? Well, the main application we took from this is and there were some basic lessons I gave everyone.

2:39 One of those basic lessons that I've repeated over and over and over and over and over is Psaw eighty three is a great example of people who believe in a God in whom they cannot see, while living in the midst of circumstances that they very much can see, and those circumstances call into question the existence and action of the God whom we cannot see. Also, because Saw maybe three clearly mentions all of these enemies, I compared these characteristics and these attributes to the enemies that all Christians face. So then I once again use this same kind of concept that as believers, we live in a world surrounded by enemies which we can see, and sometimes that makes us forget the enemies which we cannot see. So those are some basic concepts. So we looked at all the characteristics and attributes of the enemy, and we said, okay, here's our enemies, and we I think we're able to prove pretty dogmatically that our enemies have the exact same characteristics and the exact same attributes, which make it very applicable without doing any damage to the text. The next part is where things start getting a little difficult, right, because if we say, okay, we have to say that our enemies have the same characteristics in the same attributes. Can then we expect God to do in our present as he has done in their past? And immediately we know we have to kind

4:10 of call a time out, and we have to we have to pump the brakes because we can all acknowledge a couple of things. There are numerous things God did in the past that no reasonable person other than crazy charismatics, and even their claims always prove to be fraudulent. We cannot expect I don't even think we should be asking for God to do in the present as he has done in the past. Can we agree on that or no? Because I mean, I can just go through a number of actions right, right, cannot go through a number right? I mean, do you think he's gonna be parting the Red Sea? Do you think he's going to be raining food down from heaven? I mean, if so, he could stop the starvation problem in five point two seconds, right, Okay, water from a rock his actual chakana glory, as it sometimes referred to by some dwelling and the tabernacle or the temple speaking directly to us. I know charismatics believe he's speaking directly to us, But for all reasonable people, well, if he's speaking directly to us, then we don't need what we don't need the Bible, all right, So clearly he's not doing I mean, I can go raising people from the dead. I mean I can go on and on. I mean, how many things do I need to go? Stopping storms? Like?

5:25 I mean, we can go on and on and on. Obviously those things are not happening, which causes what which raises questions? Right, because we say all of these things and we're like, okay, God, we are facing very difficult circumstances. Do in the present as you've done in the past, and can we expect that to happen? I think I think we're foolish to think that it's going to happen. I mean, come on, I mean, I've been alive long enough to know those things are not happening, right, People are not being raised from the dead, and all the things that we can read in scripture which calls into question many would you that very fact to call into question the existence of God? And even charismatics in twenty twenty four, they still make a lot of their claims, but it's very difficult to maintain those claims in twenty twenty four. You know the reason why, because everything that happens is videotaped in twenty twenty four, is it not everything? Right? I mean, there's video cameras everywhere, so all these supposed miracles should be what clearly documented, right, But every single time they make the claims, someone goes investigated and it never turns out the way it's supposed to turn out. So I think, so that's already causing us.

6:38 Well, then what do we take from him asking God to do in the past and doing the present as He has done in the past. Well, for them, I think we have some possible explanations, but for us, I don't know if it's going to be able to be applicable. So we're working through all of those things, right. The first thing we looked at was in verse nine where he says deal with them as with midian right, and we dealt We looked at everything that happened in that account with how they dealt with the Midianites, and that's found in Judges chapter four through six. I believe correct, all right, And so we looked at that. Now we will go back and we'll review it in the second hour. But so as I was looking at all of that, obviously two big things have happened in our world since we've been looking at Psalm eighty three. All right.

7:26 The first thing that occurred and that everyone in the world is talking about is the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. All right, everyone's been talking about it. Not only has everyone been talking about it, many people, even some Christians. If you look even at comments under the Christian Post and some Christian websites, many are raising some very uncomfortable questions to Christians. And the response from Christians to those people is basically, shut up, you atheists. You don't believe in God, and that cannot be our great intellectual approach to this. Not only are Christians bringing it up. Bill Maher, who's obviously not a Christian, on his program Real Time he went just absolutely off on Christians, and I can't repeat half the things he said, but bringing in some of the exact same questions and and trouble that a lot of people are bringing up for some weird reason, these issues being brought up. Every Christian sitting in the pew should have been struggling with this their entire Christian life.

8:33 But as soon as someone brings it up to Christians, the people sitting in the pew get defensive and they push back, and they don't like it, and they get upset. And I don't understand why, because if you believe, if you read your Bible, you should have been struggling with this. I don't know your entire Christian life. So because of that, second thing that happened was the fire that happened at First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, the historic sanctuary that was built with eighteen ninety collapse. The roof collapsed, and it's been a big thing in the way many Christians have responded to that fire. The same the same questions have been brought up. So I'm like, well, we're in SSAW eighty three. I could circle back to this at the end of psawm eighty three, but we're right in the middle of a very important section. So if you have your bibles, look at SSAW eighty three. I'm going to give you specific verses. I want you to read these verses and i want you to see what question should immediately come to your mind when you read these verses. Now, I know the question is not going to come to your mind because nobody in church asked this question.

9:41 But everyone should, all right. Psalm eighty three, Verse one, What do we have? In Psalm eighty three, Verse one? What do we what would we call that? What is it called? When you talk to God? A prayer? Okay? Got right? This is not complicated, all right? So in verse one do we have a prayer? Go? Okay? Are we not in agreement there? Okay, it's prayer? Right? He says, do not keep silent, Oh God, do not hold your peace, and do not be still? Oh God? Okay, he's addressing it to God. Can we agree? All right? What happens in verse nine? That's a prayer? Is he not talking to God?

10:31 Is he not talking to God? Okay? It's prayer? Ladies and gentlemen. Deal with them as with Midian? He who is he asking to deal with them? God? All right? Deal with them? So to verse one? Can everyone say he's talking to God? Verse nine? Is he addressing God? Verse thirteen? Oh my God, make them like the whirling dust? Yes? All right? So three specific verses are specifically demonstrates that. I mean, we already identified it as a lament, a lament as a cry out to God, so we obviously have identified it the whole psalm as that, but we have three specific verses where Asap is in a sense composing this so that the people can pray directly to God. And they're praying directly to God because of circumstances which they are facing. And when people pray to God during a difficult situation, painful situation, tragic situation, frightful situation, what are people asking God to do to intervene? Right, to do something correct? Okay, now what is the problem with that? Okay,

12:03 this is what everyone has been pointing out on and comment sections and all over the place, and they keep addressing it to Christians and Christians keep getting mad. As said, are responding in a correct way. We have to address this. So if you didn't hear what she said, I'm gonna phrase it in a different way. But so let's go through this. I've given you some specific kind of lessons from psaw Many three. Right, So saw Many three is a good example of people who believe in God and whom they cannot see while living in a world are surrounded by circumstances which we can see, which calls into question the existence of the God whom we cannot see. That we live in a world surrounded by enemies which we can see. That sometimes makes us forget the enemies in which we cannot see. Those are two basic lessons. I'm going to give you a third, and nobody is going to like this one. Okay, I'm not even saying this is a I'm not going to present this necessarily as a lesson, but I want you to definitely write this down to the best of your ability. It's way too long, but I wrote it out in a very long way because I used it in the podcast. But you can shorten it, you can summarize it however you would like. Okay, I was going to ask Ai to summarize it, but I'd like, no, I want it written out, Longhand because it shows how trying to process this. Are you ready? As Christians, we pray to a God whom we cannot see to act in some way to help with circumstances we can see. Would everyone agree that that's a fair assessment and

13:39 how most Christians pray. As Christians, we pray to a God whom we cannot see, to act in some way to help with circumstances we can see. Almost in every prayer we're asking God to do what to act, And almost in every circumstance we're asking him to act in what way, to change a circumstance, to improve a circumstance, to literally do something right. Whatever the case may be, we're acting him to do something. Agreed, Go to any prayer meeting. It's God, I can't see you. Here's circumstances. Don't we not tell God the circumstances? And then we ask God sometimes specific things to do. Fix this, change this, He'll this person, stop this, make this better, over and over and over and over.

14:28 All. Right, we do this even though the God whom we cannot see at the very minimum, knew the circumstances would happen before he even created the world, and he allowed those circumstances to happen. Right, let me do that again. As Christians, we pray to a God in whom we cannot see, to act in some way to help with circumstances we can see, even though the God we cannot see at the minimum knew the circumstances would happen before he even created the world, and he allowed those circumstances to happen, and he did nothing to stop them. Right, that's at the minimum.

15:35 Does everyone see the conflict there and saw mayighty three? Who are they praying to a god whom, at the very minimum knew that this confederacy of nations would form, and at the very minimum did absolutely nothing to stop it from forming or stop it from coming against Israel. So now you're gonna pray to a god who knew was going to happen, did nothing to stop it from happening. Now to intervene to stop it from happening. Right, that's that's how do you? How do you wrap your mind around it? But can we can go a step farther? That's at the minimum. Now at the maximum, Oh, this is where problems began. Everyone grabbed the Trinity Hymnal, the Trinity Hymnal and turned to page eight hundred and fifty. Page eight hundred and fifty, this is the Westminster Confession of Faith. It reads identical almost to the London Baptist Confession of Faith. Everyone really look at chapter three and what is chapter three called? Okay? Now, what's a decree.

17:14 A decree is where you decrease something that is to happen, right, like a decree an order that this is going to happen. And this speaks of something that's an eternal decree. Well that could be a little troubling, could it not, because this is a decree that's come from eternity. Now look at up, that's chapter three. Look at paragraph one. You read paragraph one to yourself. Now, those who will listen to this online, I'll read it here in a second, but I want everyone to read it for themselves. We've covered this countless times on the podcast. See you keep phrasing that paragraph, whatsoever comes to pass? Everybody see that you may want to write those words down. Whatsoever comes to pass God from all eternity, did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will freely? And oh now see that's a really that's a troubling word. Does everybody see that?

18:32 That's a troubling word? Is it not? Unchangeably ordains? Whatsoever comes to pass? Now? Whatsoever comes to pass? Why is that troubling? Okay, good and bad? Right, whatsoever comes to past? Look, people continue and all of this discussion about the assassination attempt. Christian's every where almost treating now Trump almost like he's a demi God. It's frightening, right, all the things people are saying. But it's like, you know, God protected him, he was covered in the armor of God. Jesus was there, Jesus directed the bullet. Jesus, Jesus. And it's like, what about Corey who was trying to protect his family. Nobody even remembers his name.

19:22 He died, Oh, but Trump was spared. Well, so God could be at the same event and he's like, oh, this bullet, but I can't reach over to stop Corey from dying while he's trying to protect his family. Whatsoever comes to pass would include both and the two other individuals nobody even knows their names who was severely wounded. One was like seventy seven, seventy eight. We don't know. I don't know their conditions as of late, right, But no, it's just Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, He's almost God. Well, what about the other person?

20:03 I guess he just gets forgotten. Now some people have remembered him. Great, that's awesome, but that's a troubling thing. And forget just that. Do you realize on that particular day. How many people died from all kinds of things, how many children were molested, how many women were raped. I mean, we can go on and on and on and on of all the things that happened on that particular day. So we have no problem saying God intervenes. But typically when we say God intervenes, we usually always reference it in regards to that which is positive in happening. Right, and somehow we got to get God off the hook for all the bad. But there is his eternal degree. But what word there is? Which word of all of the two? I think there's two words there that are troubling.

20:55 Which one do you find most troubling? Unchangeably or whatsoever? Which one? Which one is unchangeable? And whatsoever? Which one? Which word is more troubling to you as a believer unchangeable to me? Especially if we considering I just all my introduction was dealing with what concept prayer that calls into some serious issues? Does it not? Does anyone? Not? Anyone? See it?

21:36 Okay? Thank you canfinally now go to I think chapter five of the Westminster and what's the title of that chapter? The Providence? Everyone read paragraph one. We need to probably work through both of these chapters. But I've been telling people for twenty three years to read the London Baptist Confession of Faith. So on the podcast I told everyone spent all week reading this over and over and over and over and over and over and over. What stands out in this paragraph Chapter five, Paragraph one of the Westminster or London Baptist Confession of Faith, God, the great creator of all things, doth number one, upholled number two, directs, number three, dispose number four governs all creatures. Next word actions. Okay, if you're not getting a little uncomfortable right now, I don't know what to tell you. Okay, that is

23:07 disturbing beyond anything I can even wrap my mind. I don't even know if there's anything more disturbing than that. Okay, actions things from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible fore knowledge and the free and immutable. What's the idea of immutable? Oh, we have the unchanging concept again, immutable counsel of his own will. Okay, we're running into a problem, are we not? Is anybody not starting to feel it? Now? Let me go back to that thing I was giving out to you, because now we can complete it. As Christians, we pray to a God in whom we cannot see, to act in some way to help with circumstances we can see. Even though the God we cannot see, at the very minimum knew the circumstances would happen before he even created the world, and allowed those circumstances to happen, and did absolutely nothing to stop them. And at the most God decreed them, guided them, and directed them to happen. And my last words were, what then are we praying for? What then are we praying for? So at the

24:42 very least God knew it, and God allowed it and did nothing to stop it. So that seems kind of odd to then pray for God to do something in it. Says He's the one who knew it and allowed it. Right, If if a parent was sitting here in this church, right and we looked outside and we're like, why is their kid in the freeway? Why is the kid in the freeway? We would probably go immediately to the parent and say, your kid is in the freeway. And if the parent said, I knew that we're going to be in the freeway. I allowed them to be in the freeway. It would really not make any sense to go to that parent to do anything about it. So then we have two choices. What's our two choices except the parents will or say you're an idiot.

25:42 I'm going to do something about it now. So right there, we already know what do we do? What do we do? What? You would realize if that parent knew it and allowed it, it would be really a waste of time to go to said parent. Well, it seems kind of confusing to go to the very God who knew it in all it to do anything about it. Says he's the one who knew it and allowed it. But it even goes a step further, depending on your theology. If you believe that God is decreate everything whatsoever comes to pass. And now I did decree it, He guided it, directed it, disposed it all. He did everything the things, He controls the things, even the actions and the creatures. Seems absolute. In fact, could you not say, now, now nobody's gonna like this. If we're praying for God to do something different, we're not praying in accordance to his will that that's going to go over really well, isn't it either you believe it it's God's will or you believe it's not God. If you're praying for God to do something against it or to change it, you're literally then what are you doing? What are you saying? When you pray for God to change a circumstance do something in a circumstance, you're obviously praying that it's not You're praying against God's will.

27:10 If God decrees everything to come to pass, are you not? Now? In the modern church, nobody cares about any of this. Nobody wants to talk about it. Nobody cares even when you listen to pastors, because all week on the podcast it's about finding random sermons on God's decrees and God's providence. Even the sermons I've listened to that a few of them have admitted, I don't know. I don't know what to do with any of this. It makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't make any sense. I don't know what to do with it. A few admitted that. But guess what, Nobody wanted to address this whole prayer thing. Nobody wanted to touch it because the implications of it are that most likely, if depending again, now, we can throw out God's sovereign if you want to throw out God's sovereignty here and throw out the Westminster Confession about God's eternal decrees, if you want to throw that out. Okay, But even then you still got a God who knew it and allowed it. But if you have a God who decreed it, then that would indicate that there's a high probability that in your life you engaged in what practice praying against God's will? And do you think you can convince anyone that that's a sin? Are we to accept God's will or to go against God's will? What do you think brings up about a million?

28:45 Right? So? Then, how so? Then this is the question we should ask, not what are we praying for? How should we then pray? Okay, right, how should Well here's what we're gonna do. I know the modern church nobody cares about this, But in church history people have been fighting about this for two thousand years. Just nobody in the modern church cares to look at all the fighting over it, and there's some really strange ways of looking at You want to go through church history and see how they handled it. Sounds good, Okay, that's what we're doing anyway, So you just as well say okay, cause that I mean, I spent all week looking up the history, so somebody better say, man, okay, are you ready? All right, here we go. Let's we'll do work after the Okay, at the hang on, at the most I think is the way I put it down, and at the most God decreed them, guided and directed them to happen. What then are we praying for? Okay, so we're gonna we're gonna start with the reformed calvinistic perspective. And the reason we're going to going to start with the reform calvinistic perspective probably makes sense why we're gonna start there, right, because we hold to which confession of faith? Okay? All right, okay, not we only know what is

30:33 revealed? Will is which is in the word right right right right? I know that. Well, hopefully we'll figure that out. I don't have a good answer at the moment, but we're going to see how far we can get. That's what we're gonna look at. We're gonna see how people in church history try to answer that question. Is what we're gonna hope to do. Right, So we're gonna start with the reform perspective. And the reason we're gonna start with the reform perspective is because as we just looked, what hymnal do we have in our church? The Trinity to hymnals? What confession is at the end of it? The Westminster a Reformed confession. We hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith, all right, which reads just like that reads the same in those chapters. So because we kind of we hold to at least some level of reform soteriology and a reformed understanding of God's sovereignty, then the most obvious is how did the reformers handle this? Right?

31:37 So are you ready to kind of work on this? Here we go, all right, here are the philological perspectives on prayer in times of suffering. So we're gonna look at thiological perspectives on prayer in times of suffering, right, the reformed calvinistic perspective. Now, I'm going to kind of go through this. Then I'm going to kind of go through the same material and more detailed. This is kind of just trying to summarize things and very like almost bullet statements. You're ready, God, Okay? So from a reform perspective, you begin with God's sovereignty. God has decreed all events, including tragedy, for his purpose. So the reform perspective is before I'd even begin to pray, whenever you come to me and say, hey, pray for this, what perspective does a reform person begin, if you truly hold a reform theology, what perspective do you hold at that very moment that I'm going to be praying about something that God has decreed, including the tragedy. Now, you don't probably want to tell the person who asks you to pray that that's what you believe. Now, let me state it so many times. This is so true that this is a this is a dogmatic fact. If you take what Christians believe, and I'll call this our theoretical, our theoretical theology kind of what we may talk about in a seminary, what we may talk about sitting in church. Our theoretical theology almost never transfers to where practical theology

33:16 never. There's always a world of contradiction between our theoretical, our theoretical, and our practical. Right, it's just a complete, utter inconsistency. And when you try to point out the inconsistency. People in the pew do what. They get defensive, they get argumentative, they get mad, and they'll leave because I don't want to be confronted with a contradiction between their theoretical and they're practical. And I could go through a thousand examples. Here's a good example. Those are reformed, we should start out, Hey, we're gonna pray, okay, just so that we know what we pray about. We're praying about circuitcumstances and situations that God has already eternally decreed and he's guiding and directing in his providence. So exactly what do you want me to pray for?

34:10 Because it sounds like you want me to pray that God would change the circumstance, but God decrayed the circumstance, so you want me to pray against God's obvious will. Now you don't say that to people. So typically those who are reformed, when it comes to praying, how do we pray as someone who doesn't believe God has decreed everything that comes to pass? Because if we did, we would have to pray radically different than the way we pray. So from a reform perspective, how do we pray. Well, before we get to the prayer, let's do this as reformed, where do you start that? Whatever you want me to pray about, God has already decreed it and he's guiding it. Now you said, well, how do I pray with that in mind? I have no idea. I don't even know where to begin. I'm gonna give you some examples of how one. I've got an example of how one could pray. All right, So what is the purpose of prayer? Then? From that perspective, from the Westminster perspective, from the Westminster and London Baptist Confession perspective on God's eternal decree and God's providence, what then would be the purpose of prayer? Well, let's do this. What would not be the purpose of prayer? According to the London Baptist Confession of Faith Paragraph one, Chapter three, Paragraph one, Chapter five, what would be what would not be the purpose of prayer? If we

35:40 truly believe those two paragraphs and those confessions of faith asking God to change it, it's unchangeable. And not only that he's doing I mean the confessions talked about he's doing his will, his own free will. Who am I to pray? Against God's will, you say, because somebody say, well, what is God's will? How could we answer that according to those confessions of faith, what is God's will? Whatever happens? Well, that's troubling.

36:24 Does that make you almost want to throw up? Makes me almost want to throw up? Because that would include six million Jews being exterminated in World War two? Look up how many children have been molested in churches since say nineteen seventy. The numbers are absolutely frightening in churches. I mean, like, that's not it. I'm just looking at the horrible stuff, right right, So so the purpose of prayer would appear to us just love. Look, this is just a logical inference that if God decrees everything and he and he's guiding and controlling. Remember how the Westminster put it in chapter five, paragraph one, he guides what creatures actions things according to what does it say something about his will? In chapter five paragraph one? There you go. Yeah, in no other way, They're not about us. They had nothing to do with us. I hate to say it. It almost feels like we're pawns on a big chess board. And I know that Christians hate that analogy.

37:52 Many atheist and agnostic will describe it that way and like, no, it's not like that, because we want God to be much more manageable. This is not we manage God. God's managing us, right, Okay, don't I don't necessarily like that. Okay, But so we know what the purpose of prayer is. Not it doesn't appear now I'm gonna put this just because people on the internet will get mad, I'm gonna state this as a hypothesis. All right. I'm not being dogmatic. I'm just saying the logical inference from those statements and those confessions of faith. If we believe that it would be very difficult to then how do I then bring in asking God to change that which he decreed, in which he's guiding and directing for his own will. It seems like I'm going against his will. That would have to be inferred. So then what would be the purpose of prayer? All right?

38:43 Are you ready? Prayer is a means through which God accomplishes his will? Well, God wouldn't need my prayer to accomplish his will with it. That doesn't seem to make any sense. Now, how about this prayer aligns the believer with God's sovereign plan and provide strength and comfort. Now, when we say it aligns us with God's will, that means then we would pray in what way God, I'm accepting your will, am trusting you for it.

39:31 The only problem is nobody, even in the Bible really prays that way. Jesus did. How about Psaw eighty three. Sometimes, Yeah, I mean there's a lot of prayers to change circumstances, are there not. We may have to go through and see, but we have to have to. I mean even Abram when he's praying about Sodom and Gomore, I mean he's he wants God to do what and he keeps making a deal. God goes along with it because God already knows he's going to do it. It's another way. So, like, this is a very complicated matter, right, because I'm just saying Asaw many three. The psawmist does not saying, Hey, God, your will has been to form a confederacy against us, We trust and accept in your will. No, He's like, do what, Well, that's I know that's another complicated matter in it. So but so, but at least from our revie. So at the end of yeah, in that case, you can't say necessarily is wrong because but because God decreed it. But then then we get into disc God decrease in and now we get into secondary causes, and okay, now becomes a mess. Right, So before we get all that to go down that far into the to the rabbit trail, let's let's do this. Let's at least acknowledge that the primary purpose from a reform perspective is more me saying God, I accept your sovereignty, I accept your power, I accept your decree, I accept yourdence in this particular situation, even though because I think it is absolutely fair in prayer

41:06 to do what to speak what you're feeling. That's the one strong thing about the lament palm, like Psalm eighty three, because the lament psalm is where you express what your raw emotion. Right. Hey, eh, God, I understand this is the way you may be working it, but I'm just going to express to you this is not the way I want it now. How The purpose there, though, I think, is mainly as you are struggling with God by doing what you are acknowledging. Here's the main thing I think you're doing in prayer. You are acknowledging the God whom you cannot see his working in the circumstances which you can see. Even though those circumstances would call into the existence of the God whom you cannot see, you're kind of acknowledging his existence and acknowledging that your difficulty with it. Does that make some sense? I hope that makes some sense? Okay? So through prayer, this is how one would say it. Believers would are showing their trust.

42:16 They trusting God's decrees, even those involving suffering, and ultimately for their for their good and His glory. Ultimately, what you're demonstrating by coming to God and you're saying, God, I trust you, even though I don't understand any of this. But you're not really asking God to change anything. You're just coming to God acknowledging your sovereign. Now, you may express your emotions, but you're and you may express what you would ultimately desire, but you're ultimately saying God, what you desire more than what I desire. I think someone said it. I don't know who. Someone said. Someone throw out the word Jesus. Was you okay? Right? Jesus is a good example of this. God. I would like for this cup to pass, but not my will, But you're right that that made me the best example of it. Calvin taught that prayer is a way for believers to submit to God's will and find solace and his sovereignty. So the way Calvin understood it is, guess what you're doing in prayer. You're coming and submitting to God's will.

43:24 You're not coming to change God's will. Oh that's I don't even know how you would run a prayer meeting like that. Can you imagine if you told Christians that this is what we're going to do in a prayer meeting, how many would be offended? They probably would leave and never come back. Right, God, you know what's happening in every circumstance, and we submit to the right. Okay, here's another way of describing it. In the Reformed world, prayer serves primarily as a means for believers to align themselves with the sovereign will of God. Calvinists believe that God's will is immutable and that his plan is perfect and comprehensive. Therefore, prayer is not seen as a way to change God's mind or alter his plans. Instead, it is a way for believers to grow in their understanding of God's will, to express their dependence on him, and to align their desires and actions with His purposes.

44:30 Through prayer, believers seek to conform their hearts and minds to God's will, trusting in his sovereignty and wisdom and all things. Did you hear that? So? In the reform perspective, prayer serves what number one as a means to align yourself with His will. Why because His will is immutable, perfect and comprehensive, and the Calvinistic view, prayer is not seen as a way to do what change God's mind or alter his plan. As a believer praise he is hopefully growing in their understanding of God's will. Because you're talking about the circumstance and you're accepting it as God's will. You're also expressing your dependence on him. Hey, God, I don't understand your will, but I am going to depend on you in it. And you align your action and your desire with His purpose. Your actions are not going to go contrary to God's plan. Now you do realize how this can get very dangerous, and make sure you understand this can get very dangerous, and this has had some serious bad outcomes in church history, right, does everybody understand how this has not gone so well in church history? Mom has a baby that's sick.

45:58 It could easily be fixed by taking it to the hospital. The mom doesn't take baby to the hospital because I would be going against God's and many children have died because of that. Now, what we would say is, well, that is not what we're saying. But in a roundabout way, you could see the logical inference could get you there. Could you not see people sitting in the pew who've tried to figure this out have gone to some really bizarre places. And we sit back, and so this is where we're like, well, that person's an idiot. They should do this, and they should do this, and they should do that. But if prayer is simply me accepting God's will, and God's the one decreeing everything that comes to past, and I submit my actions, then I would do no action that would seem contrary to his That's typically where we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no no, We're not going to go there, right, So then what do we do at that moment? Are we truly believing that God is sovereign over the situation? That's the that's the You see the difficulty there. Now you could argue, well, I'm gonna take my child to the hospital. The child gets better, then the child gets better, and if the child dies, the child dies. But God's will be done, right. I guess you could kind of try to approach it from

47:28 that way, but some would still may But you're still going again, You're still trying to take in action. If God's the one who decreed the sickness, then why are you fighting against the sickness? You see how this could lead to some trouble, do you not? I mean, we got to be honest here, this could lead to some really difficult situations, right So through prayer, believer seeks to conform their hearts and mind to God's will, trusting in his sovereignty. Right now, So I didn't know what to do with this. I was like, well, okay, So I kept thinking, what does that look like? Like? What does that look like? I have no idea what to do with this, right, So I just kept thinking, I'm like, you know what I'll do. I'm going to ask Ai to write a prayer according to the reform perspective, because I'm like, I have no idea what to do like, I don't think I've ever even heard a prayer like that. Have anybody else ever heard a prayer like that? The best I can come up with is what Sarah said right when Jesus said, now I will be your will be done. I mean, other than that, I don't really have too many examples. Now we may throw that at the end, but we'd go through a long list of all the things we Look, we always say, pray, pray, pray because we God can intervene. Look, our belief is that God will intervene, God will do something. That's I mean, Christianity is built on that premise.

48:50 But is it built on a fraudulent premiss If we're really supposed to be going to God saying God, your will be done in the end, I don't need to say anything else. Hey, Hey, look, so and so they just got rushed to the hospital. Will you pray? Sure, God, your will be done? I mean it's gonna be done anyway, but sure, I'll pray for you. I don't really know why you want me to pray, but yeah I can. I can say God's will be done. It's immutable, it's unchangeable, it's infallible, but sure I'll pray that his No, I don't want you to pray that his will be done. I want you to pray that my loved one is healed, my loved one is saved. But I can I pray that. I mean, I guess I can. But if we really believe his will is unchangeable, what is it going to change? Absolutely nothing? And nobody wants to hear that.

49:45 So how do you think Ai wrote the prayer? You ready? All right? Here's what Ai told me. Here's an example of a prayer from a reformed Calvinistic perspective during a time of tragedy or great suffering. This is how Ai wrote the prayer. Heavenly Father, we come before you in our time of sorrow and distress. Acknowledging your sovereign hand over all things. We confess that we do not fully understand the reasons for the pain and suffering we are experiencing, but we trust in your perfect wisdom and goodness. Lord. We ask for your comfort and strength in the midst of our trials. Help us to find peace and the knowledge that you are in control and that nothing happens outside of your divine will. Grant us the grace to endure this hardship with faith, knowing that you work all things together for good for those who love you and are called according to your purpose. Father, we pray that you would use this time of suffering to draw us closer to you, to deepen our dependence on your provision, and to refine our character to be more like Christ. Help us to see your hand at work even in our pain, and trust that we are accomplished. That we are accomplishing your purpose in and through us. We also asked that you would be glorified through our response to this tragedy. May our faith hopeing you be a testimony to others of your unchanging love and faithfulness. Use our suffering to bring others to a saving knowledge of Christ. And all things we submit to your will, knowing that

51:16 you are a loving, a compassionate God who is always with us. We pray this in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. I was like AI can pray better than most people. I'm like man, I need AI to write all my prayers. I'm just gonna go to AI every day. Hey, I don't know what to pray. Can you help me? Does that not sound really good? What is that prayer filled with your sovereign were not and didn't really didn't ask God to change what one thing other than allow the suffering to change us for his glory, and that his purpose even in suffering, works through us. Wow, that I don't know. I was like, well, it's easy for you to say AI, right, Okay, it's easy for you to talk that way because you're not suffering anything. Hey, come on, AI, let you suffer something and see if you can pray that way. It's easy to when you're you're not connected to it. Right. If someone I don't know come to me and go, hey, this horrible tragedy happened to my family, Well, let me offer a very AI sovereign type of prayer. Okay, it will be so good. Right, But if it's your own family, you're like, you know, forget this trash, God, do something? Why are you not I'm gonna sound like some eighty three? Correct? That does not sound like Psal maybe three, does it? Now? This is the inevitable

52:52 contradiction between prayer and theology. Everyone often says that many Calvinists pray like they're not a Calvinist. In some circumstances, many non Calvinist when it comes to praying for salvation for their loved ones, pray as if they are a Calvinist. Because what typically guides our prayer more than our theology, our emotions, feelings, need, and desire. So if you, even though you believe in man's complete free will, when you pray for someone salvation, what do you pray? God? Save them, God break them, God draw them? Who whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. God can't do anything to interfere with their free will if you truly believe in free will. And as a Calvinist, when we pray for salvation, we're like, God, bring those whom you've chosen before the foundations of the world to faith. But when it comes to tragedy, how do we then all of a sudden the pray as more calvinistic approach. God, do this and do this, And we don't say, God, this is your immutable, infallible, eternal decree working out in real time, and I submit to it and I praise to you for it, even though that means my daughter is three minutes away from dying. No, no, no, we don't pray that way, do we, Which means sometimes what guides the Christian life. Is not theology, it never has been theology. It's our own mind forming and shaping God into an image which we can control and guide. A. I didn't Ai told me this.

54:34 This prayer reflects the Reformed emphasis on God's sovereignty, the purpose of suffering and the believer's life and the ultimate aim of glorified God, glorify, glorifying God through all circumstances. And I'm like, well, thank you so much, mister or missus Ai. It is a very well written prayer, is it not? I mean, because but why why is it so well constructed? Well? Because AI has no emotion? What can AI do? Take the theology and then draw a logical inference from what that theology would sound like in prayer? And immediately I am confronted that I would not pray like that, which immediately demonstrates what is not guiding my prayer life theology. Oh, come on, I can't. We're all on the same boat, are we not.

55:32 Now, when we look at PSAW eighty three, now it's a lament. Now if it's just a lament, if we really put in that category, there is a prayer portion of lament. But it's mainly crying out to God, expressing why. What's a lament primarily doing expressing emotion? Lament expresses emotion to God. It's not necessarily going to be guided by what theology. And there's an appropriate time for our emotion to be cried out to God. We know that right the reason there has to be an appropriate time. We just know of the psychological damage because if you if you can't be honest with God, you have to continue. Your Christian life is based upon a lie, and you have to pretend and pretend and pretend, and you can only pretend until it doesn't work anymore. It doesn't work anymore. That falls apart.

56:29 It just that falls apart, and we're gonna have to stop. But you know, there was someone well I worked, someone worked for me who went to New Hope and she was friends with a guy. His name was Taylor who he at one point worked at New Hope. Well, New Hope is charismatic church, as everyone knows, right, Well, his father got horribly sick. Well that's a charismatic church. So the charismatic church told him that it was God's will that for his father to be healed, and then gave prophetic knowledge that his father would be healed. And guess what happened to his father died? And guess what happened to that man? Well, he left New Hope. Let's just say that. Now a lot of other bad things happened after that, but we will go into all that. But the point was, finally his theology was confronted with what reality. Our theology about God is always confronted with what reality. And this is what many in the world are pointing out that Christians sound like ridiculous people when they look at these situations and we're like God, this God then and they're like, well, where was your God when this was happening? Or this was happening, this was happening and Christians and what Christians do when they get when they get that thrown in their face, they get defensive, do they not? And what's typically the answer? Well, well, I mean, I mean, uh,

58:01 Satan does this, and Satan they immediately want to start blaming Satan. They're like, well, didn't hear God create Satan? Well, well, well, I mean, I mean, but God, but God, free will, free will, free will. God, God can't do anything about free will. God can't do anything about free will. Well, if he was all worried about free will, he wouldn't have messed up the shooters shot to save Trump because that's interfering with that person's will. That person wanted Trump dead. So why did God get involved? Well, well, it's not free will. You're just an atheist, okay, Well or maybe I don't know. I've got two brain cells and I can think the problems this this that everyone else should see. Like, stop yelling at people for being an atheist because you don't like the questions. Antheists did not create the questions.

58:47 You know what creates the questions. Nobody's gonna like this the existence of an all knowing, all powerful God that's gonna raise questions when you look at a world that calls in the question that God has That not been my entire point I've made in Saw maybe three now five hundred times. Yes, all right, we'll have to stop there, because up next there's the Armenian perspective. I should have asked. I don't know what. I don't think I asked AI to write a prayer from an army an Armenian perspective, but I think we know what those prayers sound like because everyone when facing tragedy praise either like an open theist or an Armenian, our Calvinism, our our, our belief in the sovereignty of God crumbles in the face of difficulty. It just falls apart. Now we it helps us maybe understand well, okay, God has a purpose and plan in it, but we have a hard time just say well, then, I'm just going to accept to God God's unchangeable will, right, because we believe it's changeable. To some level, we believe it's changeable. I mean, what if people always say about prayer. Come on, you've heard it said on Christian radio. You've heard all your Christian friends say it. In fact, many churches have it on their website or anywhere.

1:00:12 You know, Hey, this Wednesday night, we're having a prayer meeting because prayer changes things. Right, Ask any if you're Christian friends, what is wrong with this statement? Prayer changes things? And they will all say there's nothing wrong with it. Well, it would seem that there's one thing prayer can't change, which is what God's unchangeable will. And he said, well, what is God's will? According to the London Baptist in Westminster, what's whoever comes to pass. All right, that's troubling. Nobody's gonna like that. Don't go home and tell anybody you learned that. Well, if they already know you go to a ridiculous church. But don't tell most of your Christian friends because you will no longer be Christian friends with them. They'll get very offended and very mad and think you're a lunatic, but they won't deal with the reality these questions. Everyone should have to. When you read Saw eighty three, that should be the first thing that comes to why are you praying to the God who's allowing all this to happen? But we never asked that question, do we correct? I think it's one thing. I could be wrong, but I think if you read the entire story of Joseph, I could be wrong. I don't think anytime he's in one of those situations there's any record of him praying for God to change it. I could be wrong. When he goes to prison, he's just doing his thing,

1:01:42 right, I don't tae a prayer of him, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I tell the King. I don't know. But I mean, if that's the case, that's fascinating that he never really prays for God to do anything. But at the end, what is he say? You intended for evil? God intended? So he kind of saw that God was involved in all of it. One of the beautiful things I love about Job is Job ask God a lot of questions. But guess what, Job never does. He never denies that the tragedy he is facing doesn't come from God. In fact, he says it comes from What did he tell his wife when she said curse God and die? What did he tell her? Does everybody know what Job told her? Should we not accept? If we're going to accept good from God, we have to also accept that which is basically bad. I'm paraphrasing. So Job constantly understood that all the suffering came from whom God, And Job doesn't do a lot about asking God to change it.

1:02:51 He moreph is upset with God. He almost just wants God to do what kill him now? But I can find other stories where they seem to clearly ask God to change it. So I I I don't know how you interpret that? All right, let's pray, Lord, Lord God, we come before you this morning. Lord. We are confronted with a reality that you are God, and we don't understand we are at times left confused and perplexed by looking into your sovereignty and your attributes. God, just allow us, help us somehow accept what we cannot understand, because Lord, at times is very overwhelming. And we asked this in the precious end of Jesus, and God's people said