Ordinances vs Sacraments

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Okay, I admit it. I was wrong. I was horribly wrong. I turned on this microphone, I opened my mouth, I used very specific words, and I was wrong. I mean completely wrong, horribly wrong. In fact, I was so wrong that it's almost embarrassing. So I guess I could say I was embarrassingly wrong. I mean, it's humiliating how wrong I was. And I'll tell you about why I was wrong. Well, I don't know if I know why I was wrong.

0:51 I guess I was wrong just because I wasn't very smart. I'll tell you how I was wrong right after I do this. Good morning everyone. It is Wednesday, July the third, twenty twenty four. The fact that it's July the third and I'm already this wrong and it makes it even more embarrassing. Okay, good morning everyone. It is Wednesday, July the third, twenty twenty four. It is currently ten twenty seven am Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And the studio is now the home of well Wrong, Horribly Wrong, embarrassingly wrong. What was I wrong about? Well, I told everyone when I did the episode about guns Faith in Guns, that that was going to absolutely wipe out my audience and that I would not even get to ten thousand downloads for the entire month of July. In June we had over thirty thousand downloads and streams. But after doing that episode, I'm like, well, that's going to take everyone off. Everyone's going to be mad.

1:59 So we will not even get to ten thousand, thirty thousand in June. We will not even get to ten thousand in the month of July. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is July the third, ten twenty eight am. Do you want to know the numbers currently? The numbers currently eighteen thousand, one hundred and five eighteen thousand, one hundred and five. So, ladies and gentlemen, to say that I was wrong, I mean, it's July the third and we're in eighteen thousand. I think we'll probably maybe we'll get over thirty thousand by by the end of July. Maybe, I don't know. I mean, come on, I think someone is messing with me. I think someone has to be messing with There's just no way that's real. I'm waiting. I'm waiting from an email from sermon Audio Gen.

2:50 Well, we are very sorry, but we have to report to you your numbers are incorrect. They are not eighteen thousand or one hundred and five one hundred and five. Okay, So I know that I'm going to get an email telling me that it was a mistake. So yeah, that's absolutely crazy. So in some ways I feel foolish that I made such a dogmatic claim, But I'm going to use how wrong I was to try. I don't know if this is going to work as a great illustration, but to try to get to the subject we need to talk about. All right, So let me introduce it this way. Obviously, I used words. Those words have meaning. Right when you say, hey, we had this many downloads in the month of June, and we are not going to have that that many downloads in the month of July. In fact, we're not even going to reach ten thousand, All of those words have very specific meaning, right, and guess what the meaning of those words? Clearly demon straight I was wrong because I said things that turn out not to be true. Right.

4:04 You can use words, but if you say things that are not true, Well, then they're not true. You can't just make them true because well you said, I can't just say, well, guess what, ladies and gentlemen, it's the month of July and we only had five downloads. That would just be a lot. Then I would be using words, but the words would not be true because I'm saying things that are not true. But in this particular case, I said things, and those things are not true. I hope that makes sense. I'm really trying to emphasize that because we're going to talk about words and what words mean and what words don't mean. Now, within Christianity, I think that there are two different languages that are spoken. I think there are within Christiandom there are two different languages. Right, we'll call them one the language of the Pew. The average Christian they speak will call it Christianese. They use a lot of words they that that they there's just they become cliches. It's just what you're supposed to say.

5:16 It's just what you're supposed to say. And it's kind of like when you become a Christian, you start learning to speak Christianese, right, you know, because if you don't, if you don't, kind of use these same cliches and these catchphrases and sayings, Well, then you don't really fit in. I think that's just in many cases, those those sayings and those catch phrases and those things that people just it's just so common to use within we'll just call it, you know, daily Christianity. The people sitting in the pew. Many in many cases, that language is not very philological. It's not it's not theologically accurate. A lot of reference to scripture that's just taken out of context. There's a lot of problems with the Christian there's a lot of problem within Christianese. And it's the responsibility of those behind the pulpit to try to correct that Christianese to say, no, stop using that that that's just a cliche. That No, stop quoting scripture that way, that's not the case, right, stop doing Stop if you're if you're out for a morning jog and you're running with someone and they're struggling, don't tell them you can do all things through Christ with strengthen the few. That has nothing to Philippians, for that has nothing to do with them taking their morning run.

6:29 Stop that all right. When someone's graduating from high school. Stop quoting Jeremiah that God knows the plans he has for you, because they're not coming out of Babylonian captivity. People in the pew, stop the nonsense. The people somewhere behind the pulpit's got to correct the Christianese. And what you want to do for the people in the pew is you want to try to help them develop a more philological language. But we've got the Christianese spoken in the pew. That's the language of the pew. Then we have the language. We'll call this the it should be the language of the pulpit. But we'll call this Christianese versus we'll just call it a philological language, right, philological ease again, but a philological based language. All right, So we have the Christianese, the language of the pew. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna say, I'll do this. We have the language of the pew versus the language of systematic theology, all right, because I want to say the language of the pulpit, but in many cases, the language of the pulpit really is not much higher than just your normal Christianese. I mean, I would hope that the people standing behind the pulpit would not use Christianese, they would use the language of a systematic theology. They would use the language of historical biblical Christianity. But many times those standing behind the pew use the same dumb down language because there's almost this mindset behind many standing of the pulpit. They tend to think, well, the people in the pew, they can't really understand

8:00 deep theology, they can't really understand, so you gotta you gotta, you gotta break it down to their level. And I hate that because that treats the people in the pew like they're they're dumb. They treat the people in the pew like they're stupid, and I'm like, stop doing that. Our job is to take the to break them of their Christianese and give them a language that's more philologically sound. That's the language of systematic theology, a language of biblical theology, a language of historical theology, a language that is somehow connected to historical biblical Christianity. And a lot of times pastors mock that, Oh, these these theologians using their five cent words and they think they're so smart, and it's like stop that, stop that, So don't belittle the attempt to use very specific philological terms, because those theological terms are essential to ensuring we maintain some clear theology. So we've got the I'll call it Christianese the language of the pew, and then I'm just going to call it the language of the systematic theology, a philological language. All right, we have a Christianese and we have a philological language. I probably could, you know, make it more clever, but I'm not trying to be clever here.

9:15 I just want you to see there are two different sets of there's two languages used within Christianity, and it can be very frustrating when I feel that the church contributes to the widespread use of Christianese. The pulpit is supposed to be the place that is demanding philological correctness, being philological precision, being precise, being careful. But too many times I will listen to sermons and I'll be like, what is that. I've mentioned this a thousand times, but this may be a good way to try to articulate this. A lot of times, if you ask the person sitting in the pew to offer some kind of definition or explanation about the Trinity, they almost inevitably slide into some kind of almost modalism or Sibelianism. They almost always give a fraudulent definition of the Trinity, which is somewhat frightening, right because if they don't even understand the Triune the Triune God, they don't even understand God correctly. But then that's what I mean. Have they placed our faith and the true God or in an incorrect God? How come they can't understand the Trinity. But then, so a lot of times I'll get very upset with the people in the pew, and then you come to realize the reason they don't understand it is because of the end precise language being used about the Trinity from the pulpit I do.

10:46 I cannot tell you how many times I've listened to pastors say something about the Trinity and say one God manifesting himself in three different ways. And I'm like, that is utter modalism, that's Sibelianism, that is an actual ancient heresy. It's not one God manifesting himself in three different ways. It's one God who one God, three distinct persons, co equal, co eternal one God, three distinct persons, father, son, and Holy Spirit. They're co equal they're co eternal, they're not manifesting in three different ways. They exist as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit yet one God. You've got to be very precise. But that precision A lot of times pastors are like, well, the people in the pew, they'll get bored, they won't get it, they won't understand. That's not really preaching. I'm supposed to be preaching. It's not supposed to be a seminary. It's not supposed to come across like a university class. Well, you can make all the excuses, and but the people continue to speak Christianese and demonstrate almost heretical thinking because they're not using correct language, over and over and over. So I when I listen to sermons and I hear pastors say things, maybe my maybe you may think this is wrong, but I kind of hold them to a I have an expectancy that they're going to be theologically precise. That's my that's my feeling,

12:16 all right, So I listen for that. Now, sometimes it can just be a mistake, right, I mean, I mean I just demonstrated. I mean I said I was wrong, but I mean I made a mistake. I made a dogmatic claim that turned out not to be true. I made a mistake. Sometimes you can just make a mistake. You're not thinking. Sometimes you can just misspeak, sometimes you're just not clear. And then sometimes you're just absolutely just either you don't even understand the difference. Maybe you don't even Maybe sometimes pastors don't understand. I tend to try to give them the benefit of the doubt and just like, well, they just misspoke. But I do know that time and time again, I've heard pastors utterly say things about the training. Either there's just historical. They would be labeled historical heretics from any reasonable understanding of the Trinity. And so you write them a long email going, hey, on this day, I heard your sermon and you offered this definition of the Trinity. And then you quote them verbatim word for word, and you say now that your definition would be considered modalism, Sabelianism, it's a heresy. And then typically you either get no reply, but they don't delete the message they posted online. They just leave it there and they ignore you, or even worse, they say, you know what, I'm not worried about that where you should be focusing on Jesus.

13:39 Or they'll just make some excuse and not take down the sermony. And so then I don't think I've ever had a pastor go wow, I cannot believe I did that. Thank you so much deleting that message right now and next Sunday I will make sure I offer a correction because you're absolutely right. That sounded modalistic. That sounded, you know, like Sibelianism. You're absolutely right. But no, I've never had one time anyone even no, just nothing. And look I can understand from from a male ego perspective. I always want to be right. I want to be the best. I want to have the best podcast, the best sermon. I want to be the best at what I do. I want to make sure I speak everything correctly.

14:22 I want to say everything right. I want to be the best in my theology, best in my biblical understanding, best in my exegesis. I want to be best. And it's and it's nothing is more. Nothing is more humiliating than to stand before everyone and go, you know what, I was wrong. I got it completely and absolutely wrong. I was completely in error. That is humiliating. That goes after our male ego. I can't speak for anyone else, but at least I think it goes against mine, but we have to be precise, at least I think so. And here's the thing. The more imprecise you become in your philological language, the more precise you become in your theology, and then your theology, well, the less precise it becomes is now more open to philological error. Right. The preciseness of the philological language in which you use is absolutely the key to being precise in your actual beliefs and in your theology. I think that makes sense now.

15:31 I am mentioning all of this because this entire week and all of next week it's all about listening to live webcasts on the Sermon's two point oh app. That's what we're supposed to be doing. I should be doing that right now, but the only thing that was airing we're funerals. So I decided to go live. I do want to just give everyone this as an option. If you have the time to listen to something and you open the Sermon's two point oh app and there's no live webcast or the only thing going on is a wedding or a funeral, feel free to go to the sermon Audio Radio tab and listen to the sermon audio stream and just listen to their live radio. There you go, and that we can count that as a live webcast. All right, So go to sermon. If you have the sermon's two point oh app, I can tell you exactly where it is. Let me open the Sermon's two point oh app right now. If you click the little menu bar, you'll see radio. You click on radio, and then well it should it's gonna say, select radio stream vc Y American Radio or sermon audio radio stream. Go to the sermon audio radio stream, all right.

16:41 So if you can't listen to me, go to the sermon audio. If you can't listen to me, if you can't listen to a live webcast, according to the challenge I have given you, right because there's no live webcast on, or it's only funerals or weddings, or it's you know, racing cars for a wana, whatever people are doing, then by all means, go to the sermon audio radio stream and then you can listen to that, all right, and that will count. But I say all of that because even though I'm supposed to be listening to our webcast now, I couldn't find one. I know there's some on now and I'm missing them, which now makes me very frustrated because I could be knocking that out now. But that's okay, that's okay. The other day I was listening to a live webcast and it was on First Corinthians, chapter sixteen, verse thirteen. First Corinthians, chapter sixteen, verse thirteen, where we read watchee stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong, let all your things be done with charity. And I listened to that, and then remember, in real time, as I was listening to that, I wrote my own interpretation of First Corinthia sixteen thirteen, and even before the webcast was done, I went on the air and offered an entire interpretation of First Corinthians sixteen thirteen.

18:00 I'm somewhat. I think I did pretty good considering what you heard was literally, I mean I had just put it together. I mean like there was no time to even clean it up. So I think I think it was relative. I feel pretty good about it. Most of the time, I don't, but that one I felt like, considering I had no time to do any work on it, I think it was I think it was relatively. I think it went really very well. But I stated that I needed to find the clip in that live webcast where they say something about ordinances and sacraments, ordinances and sacraments, and to me, they conflate and confuse the term ordinance and sacrament, and that bothers me because the understanding of ordinances versus the understanding of sacraments, those are completely different philological streams. Like those those two streams don't come together. If you're sacramental, that's very different than being someone who holds to the ordinances. If you're a church that holds to ordnances, you're not sacramental. And if you're Sacramental, you don't hold to the ordinances. They're radically different theologies. But I've had friends who go to churches and they'll mention the sacraments and I'm like, you don't what are you talking about. You don't go to a sacramental church, And like, well, our pastor calls the sacraments and I'm like, how is that even humanly possible? Why would he use that term? You're not a sacramental church.

19:30 That's completely philologically in error. You should not use that term. And I'm trying to correct them, like, well, why am I trying to correct them. You don't go to my church whatever. Your church could just be theologically and precise. But it bothers me because those are radically different things. So I felt, and the very short clip that I heard that there was a confusing and confounding of the term. So I found I backed this up and we're gonna listen to it to see if you feel he conflates and confuses and if the people sitting in the pew when they walked out, would they be walking out using precise syllological terminology or would it become just a part of their Christianese which is not very philological and not precise. It's very imprecise.

20:18 You can tell me what you think. I was bothered when I originally heard it. Now I may I haven't listened to it again. I just found where it is. But we're going to back this up because what's weird about this is we're in one Corinthians sixteen thirteen, and somehow the sermon to me veered so far off course. Right, this is about well, I told you, I mean this is this is an exhortation to the people the Church of corinth based off everything that comes in the sixteen in the fifteen chapters before, right, and somehow it kind of veered off topic in this sermon, this webcast I was listening to, and I started talking about other things. So I backed it up a little bit just to give you kind of a glimpse of some of the other things being spoken of, which just seemed weird to me. But it fits some of the things we've talked about. We talked about modernism and formalism. Well, maybe this is an example of taking formalism too far. You can tell me what you think, but you're ready to listen to this. I know that's like a twenty one minute intro, but that's okay. This concept of language, I just think it has to be I think we need a broader and a wider discussion about it. Why is it that there's a Christianese language and there's a philological language, and for some reason the two can't come together because we need to eliminate the Christianese and we need to have people speaking precise philological language. Right. Look, there's a million things we're going to do wrong in our Christian lives. Right, We're going to sin, and we should we should always be fighting against it

21:52 and trying to do better. But I think at the one area we can work on together is trying to help each other be more precise in our theological language. That we can all work to do that, right, we can't. I think we can all right. So I think sometimes the church underestimates the ability of the people to understand, and so we dumb things down. And I hate the dumbing things down. Bring in a ladder, Tell everyone we're gonna be We're gonna be doing something that may be a little difficult, but here's a ladder, and we're gonna You're gonna need to climb the ladder, ladder and reach up high, but we we will stay here until you get it. But I even that is to me, is that's so belittling to me? I don't, I don't that don't need a ladder. All they need to do is just be taught. And your job is to teach them until they get it. So all right, here we go. Are you ready? Let's see how this goes? Right? Are you ready?

22:47 Are you sure you're ready? Right? Here we go here as well, there are compromises today in worship, all that familiarity. You have preachers walking around with their hands in their pockets, singing with their hands in their pockets and say now come, let us pray with a big smile. That was one of the most baffling things I've ever heard in a sermon. Okay, so there's compromises in worship, there's a familiarity, and you got preachers singing with their hand in their pocket, Ladies and gentlemen. Is there any scripture that condemns a hand in the pocket. Is there anything that would even hint that there's something wrong by having your hand in your pocket, or it's a lack of reverence. And then you call people to prayer with a smile on your face. That's a sign of irreverence. That's a sign of being over familiar. Like, look, I don't know, I don't know what any of that has to do with First Corinthians sixteen thirty. Hey, guys, watch ye and stand fast against smilings singers. Okay, stick watchy and stand fast against pastors with hands in their pockets. I mean, this is a travesty. We I mean, come on, I mean, look, if you're going to condemn something, there's gotta be some scriptural prohibition against hands in the pocket or smiles on your face like that was baffling to me. I'm

24:22 still just like I couldn't believe what I heard. I was like, what, you can't have your hand in your pocket. I'm like, I wonder, I don't think I'll put my hand in my pocket. Maybe I do. I mean, oh, I know sometimes I probably smile. My goodness, I mean I I And then I started thinking, you know what, even if those things were wrong, smiling in hand in my pocket, those are the least of the sins I need to be concerned with. Okay, those are those are the those are the least of my issues. I'm more concerned if I'm actually, I don't know, saying biblical names correctly, if I'm you know, did I use a double negative? Did did I? Did I cut myself off in mid sentence? Did I speak too fast?

25:03 Did I yell too much? Like I'm I'm worried about all of the did I did I? Did I? Did I articulate that that concept correctly? Did I exegete the script the scripture rightly? Did you know? Like there's a million other things that's just in my preaching, forget, you know, my everyday life. But I just thought that was weird, like there's a problem in the American church because pastors are in the church in general because they have their hands in their pocket. Like what, I don't even get when when did that become an issue? And you can't smile? Smiling is now a sign of a lack of reverence, And I don't get that. No reverence, no all forgot changing all for fun. God says that he used to be had in reverence. Spy ale to them that are about him.

26:03 What does this mean? It means that, I'll tell you what it means. It means unbelievers will oppose you. You need to get more people in here. You need to lighten up, make it a little bit more friendly. That's the problem with this church. You're still back in the seventeenth century. You need to get with the churches of this age. It means that unbelievers will oppose you, and even worse, many who you will find to be merely professing Christians oppose you. That's what it'll mean. If you watch and if you stand fast, that's exactly what it will mean. They will call you antiquarian, old fashion. That's what it'll mean. In Jeremiah's day, the Lord said, just notice there's no real spiritual or there's no scriptural justification for the condemning of hands in the pocket and smiling when you call people a prayer. There's nothing. I mean, it's just like there's nothing there.

27:17 I mean that, like, I look, I understand you can have your own personal preference, right, I can understand you have your own personal preference. I remember someone visiting our church and it was an evening. I had black dress pants, dress shoes. Then I had a white T shirt with a vest over it. Now, sometimes I would have a suit jacket over that, but in this particular case, I did not. And these people visited the church. They supposedly loved the preaching, but they said they would never come back because I was wearing my people could see my undergarments, And I'm like, a T shirt is now an undergarment. It's a very nice T shirt. I had a vest over it. It fit very well with with the black dress pants, and it looked really nice. I nobody, But like, where where does that come? I guess if you're gonna have some weird preference like that. But when you start judging people like someone is doing something like I was immodest in the pulpit. I'm like, look, if my white T shirt's causing you that kind of problem, I'm I know I'm good looking, but come on, now, like, what's the issue here? Really? I mean, come on like that. That's sometimes you're like, I don't I'm not getting I'm not getting the issue. But I know there's some people that have these like really very like their own little I don't know what you call it, their preference, their own little thing, but they want that thing to be everyone has to follow their exact little concept. And it's like, so I just don't get the you can't put

28:49 your hand in your pocket. So if you go to church on Sunday and when when they're singing, or if someone's got their hand in their pocket, you slap their hand and get the hand out of that pocket. Come on, that's a lack of reverence for God. And hey, you called us the prayer and you smiled. There is no smiling in church. It is just absolutely forbidden, forbidden, I tell you, forbidden. Now I'm being a little bit, you know, sarcastic, but it's just weird. And so then I, yes, I do understand that maybe we've you can talk about how could we have a greater sense of reverence? How could we demonstrate a greater sense of awe? But at the same time, the Bible may speak of reverence and all, but does it not also speak about making a joyful noise and being glad and and being you know, like I think the Bible captures both a reverence and an awe but joy happiness gladness, right, I can't. Can't there both be true? Whine is what? There have to be one against the other. Okay, But that's still not getting us to our issue about ordinances. And second, so I don't want to get too caught up on this, but I just wanted the context here because this was already a little This is language, and I was already a little perplexed by the language being used. But he's going to get into the ordinate sacrament thing here, and that part I'm just confused by, and I just don't get it. But the ordinance and the sacrament thing, that becomes more bothersome because now I think it's well, we're talking about actual theological language. Stand

30:25 ye in the ways and see and ask for the old parts. Where is the good way? The people were erring? Then people weren't watching judgment was coming? Or what do the people say? The Lord said, this is where the good way is, and walk therein and you shall find rest for your souls. But they so old we will not walk therein. And then the Lord said, also, I said, watchmen over you, saying, hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, will not hearken. It's not a choice. Judgment came, my friends. Our warfare is not carnal. There's not so much against men, is it. Behind error is an evil spirit and satan. Watch stand fast, stand in the things that God has given you, and do not move, Do not budge, do not shift. Remember what Paul says, Continue in the ordinances that I've given you. Go back to chapter eleven. Remember continue in those ordinances.

31:45 What are they, believers? Baptism and the Lord's Supper. Okay, now he's using the term ordinances and he identifies to baptism in the Lord's Supper. Now, if you are in a church that holds to the ordinances, you're going to be like, Okay, Baptism the Lord's Supper is an ordinance, gotcha? All right? So we should know what an ordinance is. If you've been going to church for any length of time, and you go to a church that is not sacramental but holds to the ordinances, you can identify the two Baptism and the Lord Supper, and you should know what an ordinance is, what it does, and what it doesn't do, right, very precise language. That is radically different than a church that holds to sacraments.

32:37 They may identify two things as a sacrament, baptism and the Lord's Supper, but they believe the sacraments do things that those who hold to ordinances don't believe they do. This is where it's about to get confusing, because he uses the word ordinance, but it sounds like he's describing sacramental theology. Just watch what happens only two that the Lord has given his church, Jesus Christ. You start adding anything else, It's works, isn't it? What can other ordinances do? The ordinances don't bring us salvation, but there are means of grace. Now, they don't bring a salvation, but they are a means of grace. Now that is sacramental language. Typically, you were taught that a sacrament is a visible means of grace. You're there's something visible water the Lord's table, like the bread and the wine or the bread and the Jews that it's tangible, but it's a visible means of grace. This by through these visibles means grace is imparted. You receive some type of grace through them, through the baptism, through the partaking of the Lord's supper. That's sacramental

34:12 language, and I definitely familiar with it for two reasons. One, I was a Lutheran Sacramental understood that the sacraments imparted grace, right, So I definitely understood that, And so you would want to take the Lord's Supper as much as possible because grace was imparted, right, You wanted that, okay. And also I didn't pursued a degree in Catholic theology so that I could speak on the issues relating to Catholicism from a position of knowledge, not one of ignorance, and so I had to take an entire course on the sacraments. So now, now, obviously we could draw the similarities and distinctions between Lutheranism and Catholicism, but they are both sacramental. They are sacramental. So he just used the word ordinance, but now he's saying the ordinances are there are means of grace, which is sacramental language. Let's see if he says anything else, and then we'll discuss the differences between these two so that you can use a more precise theological language. When I look at my baptism and I reflect on what Christ has done for me and I give my testimony, I am saying to the world and I'm saying to myself, I have died and now I live. There's one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one kind of baptism, and it's an answer, says Peter of the Good

35:42 Conscience. Again, I have no idea what any of that has to do with First Corinthian sixteen thirteen. But I digress. Let's see if he says anything else here, because what we just heard is where I stopped it and said, Okay, I'm going to take that clip because this will give me the opportunity to talk about this language and the Lord's supper. How important is that to remember what Christ has done for you and what He continues to do for you. Do this in remembrance of me until I come again. He is coming again. We're reminded of what he's done, and we reminded what he is going to do, and our hope is settled and fixed on Christ nothing else. Because we know ourselves to be poor, weak, feeble sinners, don't we every day? We need those ordinances. They are means of grace. They do not confer grace in saving grace. It's why we reject baptismal regeneration. Now he's back, he's not repeated it multiple times. It's a means of grace. Now it doesn't and bring grace to salvation, and they reject baptismal regeneration. But he keeps saying it's a means of grace.

37:13 That is very sacramental language, that that's like and so it's not just like well he said it once, he said it multiple times. We'll let this go a little bit more because this is what is Oh doesn't ordinance? Is that a means of grace? See, that's we gotta at least make sure we were drawing a distinction. This is about being. Now what some people say, you're just you're you're you're making a big deal out of nothing. Well, I think that's the thing with philological language. We have to make a big deal to try to be as as careful as we can be. And and and we're all gonna slip up and say things that correctly. He clearly believes in the ordinances clearly, but by using that language is somewhat confusing to me. And that somehow baptism confers that something good is going to happen to you, that has happened to you. Christ has come and you are now raised with Him in newness of life, says Paul Roman. Six.

38:22 Continue in the ordinances, Well, many change, and they want fanciful things, as I said, fun for all. You know, it made me sick for many months when we had to leave a certain association of churches. Grieved my spirit to have to leave that we did have to because we just couldn't bear it, couldn't go bear going to some of those meetings and seeing some of the way the ladies were dressed and standing at the front and singing as it were, their solos and their music, dressed immodestly summer time.

39:10 I couldn't imagine how unbearable it would be there to meet there tonight. So the women were singing, and you were more worried about what they were wearing than what they were singing it was unbearable? What was unbearable because it was causing you problems? Would that be you think? Or her? Thing? Now I understand we can always talk about, you know, modest, but just remember what you believe is modest. That's always the thing that there's always massive disagreements on. Where she may feel as modest, you don't feel as modest. But who gets to control how she dresses? Do you? Or does she? And if she dresses in a way that causes you problem?

39:57 Is she the problem or you the problem? I think you become the problem, not her. Now you can see the scripture's calls for modest to peril. Well, she has to de She's gonna have to be the one to somehow define that or her pastor not you. But I don't even understand what that have to do with First Corinthian sixteen thirteen. I don't like this thing that cintegrated into I don't know what's going on. That's why I did my whole exit Jesus of one Corinthia sixteen thirteen, because I felt that it needed to be understood in the context. But well, let's just let this play out and then we'll go to a greater explanation between an ordnance and a sacrament, and you got drum kits in the background and guitars. Of course, they never brought those things out when we were there, but I dread to think what it would be like when we weren't there. So you had to leave an association of churches because they had drum kits and guitars, even though they didn't use them when you were there. But you couldn't You can't imagine.

41:07 Just please note there was a time the organ was viewed as an instrument of satan. So it wouldn't it be so much not that they have a drum kit or they have a guitar, But wouldn't it be more what they're playing? What is the philological content of what they sing? More so than well, that's not the music of my day, like is it? Like? Oh man, okay, all right, but I just got to go. I want to hear I want to hear a little bit more of this, but I want to get to the ordinance and the sacraments. I know we're we're adding a lot to this, but that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. Let's let's get a little bit more here and what it's like now the battle is on. Certainly notice quit you like men? Do you see? Okay? So just so you know, none of those things that he mentioned had anything to do with what Paul was telling them to watch for to as I'm in one Corinthians twelve, it has nothing to do with what he was telling them to watch you stand fast and the faith about nothing.

42:15 What he was telling them to do was is go back through first Corinthians, chapter one to chapter fifteen. Then you'll get in understanding of what Paul's referring to. He's not referring to drum kits, guitars, hands and pockets, smiling and how women dress in a way which you don't you don't find acceptable because you don't really get to define what is acceptable to you. That's the whole thing with that problem is who gets to make the determination? Right Like, there's not like, hey this is acceptable, this isn't acceptable. It's not clearly outlined in scripture. And so how it's typically defined is a man gets to determine based off how that it impacts him. Modesty is now determined by man telling the woman how your dress impacts me. So now because it impacts me. You must dress what I define as modest so that you don't impact me like that. Is there's some issues with all of that, But all of that's about language though. Language language condemning, language judging, and is it precise theologically? And is it even biblical to condemn those things?

43:27 And a are you just putting forth your own personal preference? See language, Christianity is all about languages. Well, the ordinance in the sacraments just so that I wish you would have spent more time on it. But he just kept referring to the ordinance as a means of grace. Let me try to talk about go through this. Let's start with a sacrament or sacraments. Sacraments are religious rights or practices that are believed to convey divine grace. They are a means of grace. They serve as a means through which worshippers receive blessings from God. They can be seen as essential for salvation or for sanctification. Hey, you have to do this in order to be saved or you need this because it imparts some kind of grace that will be instrumental in helping you as a Christian. The Lord's Supper or baptism. Common sacraments include baptism and the Lord's Supper, also known as communion or the Eucharists. Sacraments must be administered by ordain clergy. I believe the ordinances should only be administered by or danin clergy. But okay, Sacraments are seen as channels of grace. Please, Now, everything about a sacrament, it's a means of grace. It imparts grace, It's a channel of grace. That's the language always use.

44:44 Sacraments are means of grace, visible means of grace. Now when you come to an ordinance, an ordinance are religious rituals or practices that symbolize or commemorates specific events or principles. So see what happens and an ordinance, you are partaking of something that commemorates and symbolizes and pictures something else. So baptism pictures death, burial and resurrection. That in Christ, I died, I was buried, and I rose again, and I'm seated at the right hand of the Father. That's in my position. That's a positional reality. It symbolizes what I am positionally. Practically, I'm still very much alive. I'm still very much a sinner. Positionally, I have died, been buried, and I've ascended to the right hand of the Father with Christ. In Christ, it's symbolized. It doesn't produce it, It pictures it. I have put my faith in Christ now to picture this spiritual thing that has occurred to me.

45:52 Positionally I am baptized, to picture what I am positionally now what I am practically. The Lord's Supper pictures what the shed blood of Christ, his shedding of his blood for me, his sacrifice. It's picturing it. It's reminding me the grace, the grace that comes from is in Christ, not through the visible means. These ordinances are remembering these things where grace comes from. It comes from the death, baryl and resurrection of Christ through his shed blood, not through partaking of these ordinances. They're simply picturing it. They are not believed to convey divine grace, but are acts of obedience and remembrance.

46:38 We do these things because Christ told us to do these things. Go ye therefore and baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. And when you come together partake of the Lord's Supper. This is the way you do so. According to Paul and first Corinthius, he gives the specific instructions and how it is to be done. These are matters of obedience and of remembrance. They do not convey grace is a completely different philological stream. You can't be talking about ordinances and talk about them being a means of grace. Now you're using sacramental language that is not precise language. Ordinances serve as a reminder and expressions of faith. Baptism and the Lord's supperer are considered ordinances. Now, according to some sources, any believer can administer an ordinance. I don't believe that. I believe the ordinances are given to the church should be administered by the church leadership. Now some may say that I'm using sacramental language, but I don't believe so. I believe the ordinances are given to the church. They're the church ordinances. So now I know many who are believing in churches, who are who hold to the ordinances and not to sacraments. They do believe anyone can administer them. Again, this is very important. Ordinances do not impart grace. Ordinances do not and part grace.

48:04 There's a complete difference between the two. We must use precise language. So if you if you go to a church that holds to ordinances, you're not a sacramental church. Do not use the word sacrament. Don't call them sacraments. Again, I've known friends who go to a Bible church or a Baptist church and they call them sacraments, And I'm like, are you out of your mind? Your church is not sacramental. We do not call them sacraments. They are not means of grace. They're ordinances. Now, if you go to a sacramental church, you don't call them ordinances. You call them sacraments. You don't sit there and say they don't they not are means of grace. You very much emphasize that they are a means of grace.

48:50 Those are two different worlds now, I think that difference is simple and easy to understand. Now, what is the meaning in all of this that we must be precise in our language. We must be precise. The bird outside my window, I don't know if you can hear him or her, she's or him. They are using language right, and other birds know what that language means, right. They know they understand that sound like they know what that. I don't know if you can hear it. Yeah, he just I guess he wants to be a podcaster today. But there's language. We use language all the time as human beings, and you know what happens when we're not precise in our language. If language gets a little bit off, or if someone misinterprets our language, that usually leads to major conflict. Right, if you're married, you don't understand the marital conflict that can arise from Well you said this, Well I thought you meant this. Well I didn't say that. I will say what I mean and mean what I say.

49:55 Well, I wish you would say what you mean and mean what you say, because you seem to think that you meant this, but you didn't say that. Well, no I said that. No you didn't say what are you talking? And then you argue and argue and argue and argue and argue, and after about two hours you're like, I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. I don't even remember how this started. What started? Because you didn't mean what you say and say what you mean because you're not precise in your language. So the problem is you. The problem is not mean because I say what I mean and mean what I say. Okay, right, well maybe it goes something like that. I don't know, but you get the point. Look, when we're dealing with matters of eternity, we're dealing with matters of philological importance, we got to make sure we use the right language. An ordinance is an ordinance. A sacrament is a sacrament.

50:39 The two shall not be, It shall not come together. There are different streams, they're different rivers, they're different forms of Christianity. A sacramental form and an ordinance form. Now have you ever been guilty of confounding and confusing the two? Now what you need to do is on Sunday I tell y'all. I tell y'all to do this every week. Nobody ever does it, but I always tell everyone you get a clipboard and walk around your church and start asking some questions. You know, have your phone out record all of their responses. Nobody ever sends me these recordings. I tell you constantly to do this, but walk around and just say, hey, what is it ordinance? What is the sacrament? What is the how are they different?

51:28 Do you do you believe in ordinances or sacraments? And It'll be probably shocking how many in the pew will not be very precise or may not even know the difference, or may say they're the same thing. And then you just need to fall on the floor and act like you're having a seizure, and they're like, what's wrong? Like I can't handle this because you don't know what you're talking about. Okay, no, what don't do that. That would be a little a little dramatic, but it would get the point across. Now, what would be even more fearful if you ask your pastor and they're not precise in their language, that would be the more concerning part. Now, it would because asserting that the people in the pew get it wrong. But then you need to go to your pastor and like, hey, I don't know if you realize this, but according to the study that I just did, nobody in this church seems to understand the difference between an ordinance and a sacrament and they think they're the same thing. Can you please help them understand the difference between sacramental theology and an ordinance based theology. And then your pastor would probably appreciate that you took time to do the study.

52:27 So go do it. Go do it right now, you say, well, I'm not at church, Well do you have a church directory? Just grab the church directory and start calling people. Hey, yes, we're doing a random survey today. You attend this church? Yes, okay, well good. You probably don't know me, but yeah, I go to church with you. Okay, good Right, I'm the one who always asked these stupid questions and irritate you. Okay, well I've got some questions. Here's the questions I need to do, and then see what they tell me. Now, nobody ever reports back to me ever, because I think everyone thinks I'm making up. But if I was a church member, I would constantly be walking around asking people questions all the time. I'd just be standing in the parking like they were like. People would be pulling up kids. That strange guy is in the parking lot. Just put your head down and don't make eye contact with him. He's crazy. Just don't don't don't look at him. Don't look at him. Don't no no no no no no no no no no, Johnny, Johnny, don't no no no, don't don't talk to him. I'd be like, come here, come here, I got a question, I got a question. I'm six. Okay, that'll work, Okay, okay, all right, So what have we learned today?

53:29 Do not put your hand in your pocket, do not smile, do not use drums or guitars, ladies, watch how you address. And ordinances are means of grace. Now, I will argue there's some philological issues with that language being used. In fact, I would argue that telling ordinances and means of grace is absolutely thiologically, categorically in error, because either you hold to sacraments or you hold to the ordinances. He's merging the two worlds somehow, and that's just not theologically possible. Unless there's a third theology which says ordinances and sacraments are the same thing. Well, but that doesn't exist as far as I've known. In all the schooling I've ever had, or just the different churches. I mean, I was a Lutheran. We definitely made sure we knew that there were sacraments. We definitely knew that. Oh, and guess what's interesting in the Lutheran Church when the kids were going through catechises through their confirmation, Oh, they had to know the difference between a sacrament and an ordinance. So that means young people can actually learn that stuff, so there's no excuse that the adults can't right. Same thing. And Catholicism, when they're going through catechises and through Confirmation, they're got to know the sacraments. They got to know what a sacrament is, and they are going

54:59 to know that it imparts grace. They're going to know that, they're going to know what's a means of grace, a visible means of grace. All Right, you can email me news I F at yahoo dot com, newsif at yahoo dot com. We will end with this language matters in theology. Everyone have a great day. God bless