April 18, 2025

NAR and Seven Mountains

NAR and Seven Mountains

We review a discussion about the NAR movement and the seven mountains mandate.

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We review a discussion about the NAR movement and the seven mountains mandate.

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central.

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Good afternoon, everyone. It is Friday, April eighteenth, twenty twenty five.

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It is currently five twenty five pm Central Time, and

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I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio

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located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, when it comes

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to false doctrine, false teachers, I always struggle, like, how

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much time do I really focus on false teaching and

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false doctrine in this way? Right, because you can go

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out there and find the you know, the theology the

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teachers that are just so abhorrent, so crazy, so insane

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that I mean, it's easy. You can just go find

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one horrible, messed up, crazy outlandish thing after another. You

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can episode after episode exposing this person, exposing this teaching,

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exposing this doctrine, exposing this theology, and you can kind

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of become the discernment person, right, and you go listen

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and you already know how bad it is, and then

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you review it, you already know how bad it is,

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so in some ways it's almost like it's rehearsed and

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you're just kind of the discernment guy, and you tear

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this apart, and you tear this apart, and you tear

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this apart, and you tear this apart, and you're warning

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everyone about all of these extremely heretical movements in theology.

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And I'm not saying there's not a place for that,

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But after a while it just seems like, I don't know,

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I mean, do you need to be warned about some

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of the craziness out there, some of the extreme just

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heresy out there. There's a part of me says, anybody

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should be able to figure this out. It's not that

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I mean, it's not that difficult to see when something

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is so abhorrent. However, obviously there is room to do that,

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because well, there is so much abhorrent theology that not

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only has its supporters, they tend to do very well.

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They tend to bring in lots and lots of money,

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and they find themselves and positions of great power and influence.

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Even when it comes to I don't know, our government,

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the president, well, then it even becomes even more concerning,

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like how can any rational people listen to this stuff?

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But over and over it's there, so I know there's

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a place for it. But for me, this is my

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own thought, my own thought, maybe just hear me out.

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Maybe the reason so many people are drawn into this

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craziness and this insanity and this heresy and just I

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don't even know what you call it. It's just so

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whacked out. Is that a good technical term. It's so

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whacked out, it's so cuckoo for cocoa puffs, it's so insane,

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it's so ridiculous. Maybe people are are vulnerable to being

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brought into it or being influenced by it because the

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average church that may not be heretical, that may not

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be you know, teaching heresy is just so vague and

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shallow and a little bit of spirituality, but they don't

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really care about hermaneutics, they don't really care about theology,

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that they leave the people vulnerable. Maybe that's the bigger issue.

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So for me, instead of going out looking for the

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heretical teaching, I just like to grab sermons from churches that,

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for the most part, would appear to be okay, would

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appear to be all right, and review those sermons without

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knowing what's going on, going into them actually blind. At

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one that's more fun because it's not rehearsed, it's more organic,

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But it really gives us a sense of what's going

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on and the so called good churches, right, because if

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what's going on in the so called good churches is

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hermeneutically questionable, it's vague, it's messed up, it's it's blurring

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the lines between law and gospel. I mean, we can

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go through all the possible problems of just things we've discovered.

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Well doesn't doesn't that then explain why these other movements

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can be so enticing because the people are vulnerable? Is

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that a am I formulating a hypotheses here? So for me,

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I instead of going out there going oh, you know,

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what is what is this? What is Bethel doing? What

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is this crazy church doing? What is this crazy? I

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mean a large portion of Christianity already brands these people heretics,

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So why go spend all of my time going after them.

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I'm more worried about all the people who are calling

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those people heretics when they themselves there's a million problems.

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I guess what. There are certain forms of Christianity, and

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we state it this way. There's sudden certain forms of

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Christianity like anything in the charismatic world. Anything in the

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charismatic world. I mean, I don't. I just see that

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as insane. I see that it's just like, who could

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ever buy into anything in the charismatic world. It's so ridiculous.

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So I don't even consider I'll just be honest, most

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of the charismatic theology and charismatic Christianity, I don't even

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consider it christian. I just think it's insanity. I think

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it's I hate to say it. I almost see it

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sometimes as a mental disorder. I don't understand it in

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any way, shape or form. So why am I gonna

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go waste my time about that? Because I don't see

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how anybody could ever even consider it. What bothers me

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is all of the Christians who are pointing at them,

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saying heretic, heretic, heretic. I think we typically have enough

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issues of our own to deal with, right, It's to

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me judgment begins in the house of the Lord. Well,

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those charismatic, crazy heretics, I don't even consider them a

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part of the house. I don't even see them in

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the same neighborhood. I don't see them in the same state,

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I don't see them in the same country. I don't

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even see them on the same planet. I don't even

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see them in the same universe. So am I gonna

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spend my time worrying about that. I'm over here with

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all the people who, oh they appear to be we're

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quote unquote on the same side. What I find out

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is the people that I think I'm on the same

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side with, I don't even agree with them. Okay, So

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I guess that's where I tend to focus, right, not

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just spending my time going after the supposed you know,

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being a heresy hunter. I'm more worried about just what's

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going on in Christianity in general, because I think that's

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what makes it vulnerable. I know, I'm kind of formulating

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a hypothesis, but my whole point is this. You don't

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hear me do a lot of these kind of programs

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about the craziness, But in this particular case, we're gonna

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go right into the middle of the craziness. We're gonna walk,

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we're gonna drive right into the middle of the craziness.

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And trust me, it wasn't my idea, right, I was

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minding my own business. But remember I have fifteen different

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podcast apps. I get notification after notification after notification, and

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all of a sudden, I'm minding my own business and

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I get a notification that reads climbing the Seven Mountains,

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and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, someone's

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talking about the seven Mountain mandate. Oh man, I know

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because it was a Christian podcast, you could say, well,

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how do you how did you know it wasn't about

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climbing actual mountains because it was a Christian podcast. And

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if they're talking about the seven Mountains, I know where

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this is going. And I'm like, oh, we're going to

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have the New Apostolic Reformation. And then what's connected to

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the NAAR is seven mountains and of course naar seven mountains.

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Just look at the Trump administration, I mean all day long, okay,

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and guess what many of those Christians who would condemn

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the heretics of the Charismatic Movement, the NAR movement, the

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seven mountain Ment, well, seven mountain mandate, which its weird.

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The seven Mountain mandate I think in many cases has

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an influence upon the Christians who condemn the NAR and

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the Charismatic movement, which is really strange to me. But

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many of these Christians are like pro Trump, pro Trump,

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pro Trump. The Trump administration is greatly influenced by nar

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and the Seven Mountain Mandate, and I think that should

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be concerning. But of course if I say that, then

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I'm going to be well, then everyone's going to be

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mad at me. But I think there's a lot of

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truth to it. So here's what we're gonna do. I

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grab the audio and we're going to start listening to it,

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start talking about it. Just I don't know how long

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we're going to go, and then I'll challenge you to

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go listen to the podcast. The podcast that you need

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to find is Understanding the Times. I've told you like

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a million times to download and subscribed to their podcast

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Understanding the Times, which Jen Markel. I don't agree with

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everything she says. Sometimes she clearly wanders off into conspiracy

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land and craziness and drives me crazy. By there's other

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times she's doing really good job at exposing some of

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the craziness inside the Christian Church. So Jan Markel, I

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think it's Jen Did I say Jen Jan Markel? It's

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it's j A n Yeah, it's not j e En

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Jan Markel Understanding the Times. And I'm gonna play their

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intro and everything so that you can hear them identify

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everything you should subscribe to it, and you should listen

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to the latest episode, which is Climbing the Seven Mountains.

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It was released today. All right, that's why I saw

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the notification today. So go listen to it. But we'll

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we'll review at least part of it. We'll talk a

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little bit about the NAAR Seven Mountain Mandate, and maybe

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we'll talk a little bit about how this well, the

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Trump administration has this nonsense. Put it this way, It's

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fingerprints on the NAR and the Seven Mountain Mandate has

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its fingerprints all over the true administration. Is that a

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good way to describe it, and that should be concerning

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to all of us. All right, So here we go.

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Let me lower the volume here because I amplified it

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and it's way too loud right now. But here we go.

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We're going to go into this the latest episode of

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Understanding the Times podcast. The episode is called Climbing the

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Seven Mountains. Buckle in. This stuff is crazy. Here we go.

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Why do they call it the New Apostolic Reformation or

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NAR when nothing they represent is new. We'll talk about it.

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I am speaking prophetically by the Holy Spirit, and you

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are to sew a three thousand dollars seat when you

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obey the voice of the Lord, and you do what

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God's telling you to do.

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You need to send in thirty five thousand. You need

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to send in that one hundred thousand dollars check. I'm

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telling you. And God has mandated if you do not

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write that po box and you do not call that

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toll free number, and you do not become a ministry

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of sustainer, you will never see sustainment in your life.

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Welcome to Understanding the Times Radio with Jan Markel.

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Now you just listen to that. I don't know if

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you know that voice. That's Paula White. We've already talked

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about her recently. She's Trump's spiritual advisor. Yeah, and well

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you can hear the one thing that describes her money money, money, money, money, money,

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And of course the way it works, you give her

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money and well then you get things, you get blessings.

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And we talked about some of the things she was

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doing as it was approaching Easter, and we talked about

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some of that. There was a little bit of controversy

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about it. Some people say it was misunderstood. We talked

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about it. We played the clip, just all kinds of craziness.

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But yeah, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money,

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Whether anyone wants to believe this, whether anyone's ever going

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to acknowledge this Christianity. You can say, well, we'll call

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it Churchianity, but we'll say Christianity as it is manifested

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in the world right now. I'm not talking the teachings

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of Christianity, like the deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement. I'm

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not talking about that. But I'm saying Christianity as it's

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played out in the world. There's no way that I mean,

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you've got to acknowledge this. It's a business. It's straight

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up a business. You have a product you sell. That

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product is Jesus, that product is salvation, that product is

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the Bible. You sell it. People pay you money to

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get it, people pay you money to receive it. It's

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a business. It's a transaction. And in some cases it's

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like oh no, no, no. If you want to be blessed,

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if you want this, if you want this, give them money,

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give them money, give them money, and then you get which.

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All of this is nothing more than selfishness and fleshliness.

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You can try to describe it all day about being spiritual.

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You're giving money because you're hoping to get something. It's

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just a it's oh, the whole thing. And we've talked

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about how much money it takes to operate a church,

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what people actually get out of a church for the

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money they put into it. How much money goes into

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for ministries to operate. It's insanity. It's money, money, money, money, money, money.

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Just to keep a church operating for one year. The

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amount of money, it's just nuts. But I'm not supposed

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to criticize that. Just find it interesting that all of

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those opening clips are all about money. Won't you want

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to hear him again. Let's hear him again. Let's hear

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him again. Here we go.

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Why do they call it the New Apostolic Reformation or

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NAR when nothing they represent is new. We'll talk about it.

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I am speaking prophetically by the Holy Spirit, and you

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are to sew a three thousand dollars seat. When you

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obey the voice of the Lord and you do what

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God's telling you to.

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Do, you need to send in thirty five thousand.

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You need to send in that one hundred thousand dollars check.

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I'm telling you, And God has mandated if you do

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not write that po box and you do not call

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that toll free number, and you do not become a

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ministry of sustain or you will never see sustatement in

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your life.

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Welcome.

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Do you think that would work for me? Hey, guys,

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you the Holy Spirit has spoken. You are to sew

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into the Theology Central podcast one hundred thousand dollars? Do

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you think I could convince anyone out there or a

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group of people to come up with one hundred thousand dollars?

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I've told before one hundred thousand dollars would be all

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I would ever need. That's all I would ever need.

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One hundred thousand dollars. I mean that pays off my house,

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That takes care of everything, I mean literally everything. That's

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all I would ever Now, I wouldn't meet another dime.

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And I could broadcast five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten

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hours a day if need be one hundred dollars. But

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do I tell everyone God, God, God is telling me.

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God is speaking now. See, I don't know how anyone

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buys into that, But it works. How many ministries has

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this worked for? Over and over and over and over

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and over again. It never stops. It's working. You think

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at something, people are like, wait a minute, there's something wrong. No, no, no, no,

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it works. So the way to get money is to

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convince everyone God is telling you to tell them that

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they have to give money. I don't but okay, but

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that's that's just right. There's just stack it just as

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it blows my mind. And Paul White's still doing it.

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I don't know how old those clips are. We just

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heard the recent thing about getting all these special blessings.

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If you give a big gift, you know, leading up

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to Passover in Easter, leading up to all of that,

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you can get a special all these special blessings if

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you give them a special amount of money. It's just

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it never.

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Stops to understanding. The Times Radio with Jan Markel Radio

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for the Remnants, brought to you by Olive Tree Ministries.

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In part one of our program, Jan Markel talks to

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Holly Pivoc about the troubling Signs and Wonders movement called

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the New Apostolic Reformation. This is harming many good churches

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and denominations with end time spiritual deception. Then can Michael

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and Josh Schwartz talk to Nathan Jones, They consider things

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to come. Here is today's program.

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Now, I've got to disagree with something. I don't know

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how the Naar seven Mountain movement can harm a good church,

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because if you're a good church, how does this stuff

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even get through the front door?

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How?

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How? I don't understand. Anyone who holds to the nar

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Or seven Mountain mandate would not last and would not

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stay in my church for more than thirty seconds. Okay,

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they would leave Immediately'd be like, okay, clearly this church

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is not in line with this stuff. They wouldn't even

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listen to this podcast for thirty seconds. Okay, So I like,

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I don't know, but all right, you know, well we

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can have a long discussion. Right there just raises lots

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of questions.

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You can accept somebody and they say, God's getting ready

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to give me access.

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Victory, victory, fixtory, victory, victory. Man strike and strike and

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strike and strike and strike and strike.

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Wherever I go, God rules. When I walk on white

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House grounds, God walks the White House ground. The Lord

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couse it is done, the Lord, because it is done,

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the Lord, because it is done.

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And she starts going around and around and around with

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a man.

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All send take satanic frequencies to miscarry.

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Right now, we declare that anything has been conceived and satanic.

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Wonts the little fist carry Africa right now?

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In Africa, right now, Africa, right now.

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I had every ride in authority to declare the White

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House as holy ground.

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Welcome to the program. I know that's a little unnerving.

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We're going to get into my program I and explain

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more about what you just heard, which was the voice

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of the White House Faith Advisor paul White. So I

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have worked with my guest for this segment.

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I just want you to hear that all that that,

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all that crazy stuff that Paula White was saying. I mean,

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that is the White House Spiritual Advisor. It's insanity, that's it.

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And everything she's saying is just crazy talk. It's just

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like how who who?

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Here's that?

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And goes m okay now again, I will I will

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just remind everyone I know. I always say, look, I

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don't understand it. I don't, okay. So this is one

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of those things I try to be transparent here and

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not try to say, oh I understand, and because I don't,

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this is just one of the there are things in

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my life. There's sins and things that I fall and

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struggle with that you would not understand. And I just

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don't understand how anybody in their right mind could ever

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get caught up in the charismatic movement. I just say

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that because I truly just don't understand. I know people,

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can I know people? Do? I know that? I just

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don't in my mind. Like I became a Christian, and

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as soon as I begin exposed to the chars my

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I'm like, this is the most whacked out stuff I've

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ever seen in my life. Who could buy into this insanity? Now,

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if you're born and raised and brought up in it,

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then it looks normal to you, So I can't understand that.

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But from the outside, I'm like, what is this insanity?

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This is crazy? And then you start hearing the stories

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about how they fake this and how this was a

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lie and this wasn't true and this information was false,

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and then you just start going no, thank you, no,

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thank you, no, no, no, I'm I'm just gonna walk away.

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I'm just gonna come over here. You're crazy, You're crazy. Now.

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I defended people who were in it, not their theology.

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I defended them because I went to school with a

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lot of girls who were Pentecostal and they got picked on.

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So I'd always go to their defense, not their theology.

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You're just like, look, that's the way they if that's

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the way they want to dress. I didn't know that's

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the way they had to dress. But if that's the

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way they want to dress, everyone back off. Who cares?

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Who cares? Just leave alone? Right?

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So?

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But man, anytime we would have any words about theology,

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I'm like, Hey, that's it. Hey, look, I'll defend you

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if people pick on you, but just stop your nonsense

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because you're out of your ever living minds. Okay, but

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I will defend you. Nobody can pick on you. But

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if you talk, I'm going to tell you you're crazy. Okay.

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So and well, and then one of them who I

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was in class with, class ends schools out, She gets

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in her car, she tries to drop home. Boom, she

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gets hit by a semi and she dies. And well,

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none of the Pentecostals are able to raise her from

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the dead, even though they're teaching. Seems to teach that

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I wonder, I wonder what happened? Say, there's just another

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piece of evidence that says, See, your whole system is fraudulent.

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But I do know good people can be pulled into it.

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I just don't understand it. And when I say and

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do crazy things, you're like, I just don't understand that

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that's the way life works. But I don't want to

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sit here and pretend and give you some like, oh,

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I'm so understanding, because I just don't. I don't get it.

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But all right, let's see where this goes.

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Holly Pebbock a number of years now, and we've carried

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several of her outstanding books over the years. I've asked

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Holly to join me for just a few minutes today

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because many of us in the evangelical Christian community are

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not happy with one of President Trump's leadership picks, and

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that would be the head of the White House Faith Office,

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Paula White, otherwise known as Paula White Kine. This woman

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represents aberrant theology, and that's an understatement. We'll focus on

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that in the next minute or two. Here she represents

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I think we could sum it up with word of

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faith theology. There's some dominion theology, prosperity theology, and more.

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And you heard in that introductory clip representing just some

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of so many aberrations. Honestly, we'd need several hours. I

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have featured as I said. Polly's books on air in

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the past, and you can learn a lot more about her.

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We'll say more about her podcasts a little bit later,

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but all info found at hollypivoc dot com. So Holly,

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welcome back to the program.

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Thank you so much. Jan, It's always a pleasure of

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talking with you.

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Give us just quickly because I think you would put

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Paula White into the NAAR, which stands for New Apostolic Reformation.

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Give us a definition, and then why is it dangerous?

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The New Apostolic Reformation movement is a global movement. It's

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a very popular movement. The people who are in this

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movement believe that their leaders are authoritative apostles and prophets.

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They believe these apostles and prophets have extraordinary authority that

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their followers need to follow them so that they can

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receive the new revelations. These apostles and prophets claim that

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they're giving so that all Christians can develop miraculous powers

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and rise up as this end time miracle working army

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to take dominion of society and bring God's Kingdom to earth.

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They depend on these apostles and prophets the wage spiritual

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warfare against high ranking demons they believe are ruling over

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cities and nations, and we believe these apostles and prophets

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have blessings and miraculous powers that these believers need to

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come under their authority and submit to them so that

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they can be blessed, so they can have miraculous powers

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and prosperity and be heald of sicknesses and things like that.

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And the teachings of this movement may sound extreme to

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your listeners who haven't heard of it before, but they're

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really making inroads into many, many churches. And that's a

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lot through the teachings of Bethel Church and Writing California,

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which is the most influential church probably right now in

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this movement. Bethel music and all the nur music that's

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coming out of the nar churches like Kill Song and

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Bethel Church and Jesus Culture is just the most popular

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music being used in churches today, even churches that aren't

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part of this movement. So it's a very popular movement

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that's really sneaky and deceptive, and it's making inroads into

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a lot of churches.

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So many people know that.

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Paula White Kine is a tella evangelist and a prosperity

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Gospel teacher. But what many people have not been aware

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of is that she's part of this AR or NAR

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movement and actually is an apostle in this movement. So

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that's concerning because this movement the theology is so aberant,

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as you have said, it's dangerous. There's been so much

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spiritual abuse, in division in churches and families, and just

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terrible fallout from the harmful teachings in this movement.

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I am gonna correct something because I disagree. I don't

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think it's that deceptive. I don't think it's sneaky. I

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don't think there's anything sneaki or deceptive about it in

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the sense of it's right there in your face. It's insanity.

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I mean, it's not like they come across all nice

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and normal. They come across this absolutely out of their

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ever living minds. When they the things they say, the

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things they claim, the things they do, You're just like,

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what is this. It's it's blatantly abhorrent. It's blatantly in

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your face. So I don't see it as being sneaky

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and deceptive others may I just I just like you

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can you see it's it's basically as soon as you

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come across naar prosperity seven amountain mandate any I'll just said,

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I just throw it all in this umbrella, this kind

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of a pot of charismatic mess right. However they want

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to draw a little distinction, it's to me, it's just

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a punch in the face. You getting near. It punches

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you in the face and like, hey, we're here and

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we're different than you because we believe in this and

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this and this and this and this and this and

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this and this and this and this and this and

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this and this and this, and immediately God tells them this,

461
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.839
and God speaks to them. Okay, well already it's abhorred

462
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.599
because that destroys solo Scriptrah. God is speaking to them

463
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.920
outside of the Bible. Then they claim authority. If you

464
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.240
hear that that they are an apostle, you already know

465
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.079
that's out there. Like when they start claiming that healing

466
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.039
is guaranteed. I mean you could just it only it

467
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.640
should only take you a couple of seconds to go, Okay, well,

468
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.200
we're not in Kansas anymore. So I don't see it

469
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.519
being sneaky. It's and I don't even see it it

470
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.240
being deceptive in the sense of it tells you what

471
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.079
it is. I don't see them sneaking in undercover, Okay,

472
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.440
let's sound like everyone else. And then when the moment

473
00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:09.200
is right, well, jump out of the closet and scare everybody.

474
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:12.079
I know, they come walking in. They come walking in

475
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:16.039
with the hockey mask and the sword, but carrying their

476
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:21.079
you know, serial killer theology. I don't know how else

477
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.359
to describe it. I mean, you know, the monster is there,

478
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:30.400
you know, the evil villain is present. The music follows it, okay,

479
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.440
and that's nothing about their music. I'm just saying using

480
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:35.599
a kind of a movie, you know, when the bad

481
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.039
guy is on the screen. All right, So I don't know,

482
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.519
I don't see it being that sneaky. To me, it's

483
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:44.000
pretty blatant. I mean, how long do you have to

484
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:46.720
listen to Paula White to know she's out of her mind?

485
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.640
How long do you have to listen to Bethel and no,

486
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.039
this is insanity? How long do you have to know?

487
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:53.279
I mean how long? Now, maybe there's some cherchers out

488
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.920
there who try to play you know that, maybe they're

489
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.279
moving in that direction and they're not letting everyone know.

490
00:26:58.599 --> 00:27:03.240
But to me, it almost always becomes pretty clear pretty fast.

491
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.720
I think there's some churches who don't want to go

492
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.720
all in with it, they don't want to be all

493
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:11.799
out against it, and they're in the middle. So maybe

494
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.000
those churches can be a little bit more deceptive.

495
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:21.519
Maybe I've heard you separated from today's Pentecostal movement, even

496
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:25.359
you've separated it from today's charismatic movement, and you put

497
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.759
it in almost a third category that would be NAAR

498
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.519
New Apostolic Reformation. Am I right there?

499
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:33.240
Yes, I'm glad you're pointing that out.

500
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:36.920
These teachings and then our movement are not standard historic

501
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:39.160
Pentecostal or charismatic teachings.

502
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.319
This is where I disagree. You can try to separate

503
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.240
it from charismatic theology all day. You go ahead, I

504
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:49.759
know everyone does. You don't get to NAR without the charismatic.

505
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:54.640
You don't get there. You know, it's like you call

506
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:58.160
it a you know, the argument always is, well, marijuana

507
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:00.400
is the gateway drug. If you smoke marijuana and next

508
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.240
thing you know, you're gonna be shooting heroin, you're gonna

509
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:05.160
be smoking crack, You're gonna you know, it's the gateway drug.

510
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:08.720
It's the gateway drug. Okay, well, then charismatic is Charismatic

511
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.759
theology is the gateway drug. You don't get You're not

512
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:17.240
gonna get to NAR without going through charismatic land. Okay,

513
00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:19.759
You're not gonna get there. So I don't like the

514
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:24.240
destroying the distinction. Here's the thing. Stay away from anything charismatic.

515
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:28.119
Stay if it even sounds charismatic, run for your ever

516
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.359
living life. Just get in the car and dry. It

517
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.599
would be better to just take your car drive off

518
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:36.880
a cliff than get anywhere near charismatic. Don't get near charismatic,

519
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.640
you don't get near NAR. I don't like separating it.

520
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:45.559
Maybe from a technical standpoint, whether there's some charismatics who's

521
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:49.759
not NAR, there's still charismatics there. That's still insanity. It's

522
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:53.039
still what are some of the key foundations of charismatic

523
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.279
God guarantees healing the You get extra power by getting

524
00:28:57.319 --> 00:29:00.319
the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is sub sequent

525
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.359
to your salvation. Let me say, oh, God speaks to

526
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.079
you and and visions or dreams or two tongues, I

527
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.519
mean it's you. You're You're walking right into NAR territory.

528
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:15.799
So I I don't I don't see it. I don't

529
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.200
see it that way anyway at all. I don't see it.

530
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.119
I don't see it anyway at all. I'm sorry getting

531
00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:24.319
my daughter's calling me. She always calls me when I'm

532
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.400
live on the air, So I know you you can

533
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:29.039
separate it if it makes you feel good, and you

534
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:35.400
need to make a chart. How can we say it charismatic,

535
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.759
the Charismatic movement, the Charismatic theology is the mother and

536
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:44.640
the NAR is. It's it's evil child, it's the evil

537
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:49.079
offspring of the Charismatic movement. I don't I'm not gonna

538
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:51.599
separate it out no way, no no, no, no, no no

539
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.359
no no no no. I again, maybe historically you can,

540
00:29:55.559 --> 00:30:00.200
but maybe maybe I will challenge myself and say, say,

541
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:04.880
you can make an argument to me, but I'm just

542
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:07.559
going I will always push back and just say, well,

543
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.559
you can try to draw a distinction, but guess what,

544
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.680
if you're not near charismatic world, you don't get anywhere

545
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:16.319
near NAR.

546
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.839
Very extreme, and many Pentecostals and Charismatics are very concerned

547
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.200
about this movement because the teachings are so extreme, and

548
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.279
they've actually come into many Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and

549
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:31.359
repavoc and cause church splits, and so many of the

550
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.880
people who support the work that my co author Doug

551
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.519
Givan and I have done on this movement are Pentecostals

552
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:41.240
and Charismatics and pastors of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. Because

553
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.079
this movement has been so destructive.

554
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.599
I see, I would not be able to tolerate that

555
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.519
for five seconds. If you're charismatic griping about the NAR,

556
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.559
I would be The problem is your entire philological system.

557
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.960
You're complaining about the NAR. Your entire cares Sthmatic theological

558
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:05.319
system is a fraud. Your entire charismatic system is a mess.

559
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:09.400
Stop worrying about NAR. Looking in your own house, Okay,

560
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:11.720
give me look at all the things that have been

561
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.759
a part of the charismatic movement since the beginning of

562
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:17.680
the charismatic movement. You just look at all the crazy

563
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.240
things that has arisen. Why do all these crazy things

564
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.960
come out of the charismatic movement. Why Because the charismatic

565
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.400
movement is the poison. The Charismatic movement is the cancer.

566
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:32.119
You could say, well, this is a different kind of cancer,

567
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:36.079
it's still a cancer, and the cancer is the Charismatic movement.

568
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.319
What do you say to those who might say, look,

569
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:46.519
President Trump, he's listening to a Christian. Why do we

570
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:50.400
even care what the theology is. Why can't we be

571
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:54.519
happy that a Christian represents us in the White House?

572
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:58.000
Why worry about some of the details and some of

573
00:31:58.039 --> 00:32:01.160
the details you've just given us, but there still setting

574
00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:04.319
that aside and say, let's just be grateful at least

575
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.440
she believes as an evangelical and that we all must

576
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:08.160
be born again.

577
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.680
Christians need to be more discerning. They need to realize

578
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:16.200
that not everyone who claims to represent biblical Christianity does

579
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:20.799
actually represent biblical Christianity, and that's very important. So many

580
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:23.359
people will think, like you said, Jan that we should

581
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.880
just celebrate that there's a Christian in the White House

582
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:30.279
working on our behalf. But the problem is, just because

583
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.319
she professes to be a biblical Christian does not mean

584
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.279
that that's what she's actually representing.

585
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:39.200
And she's bringing along with her many leaders.

586
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.000
In this movement into the White House and to President

587
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:47.519
Trump's circles to advise him. So it's important. Doctrine matters,

588
00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:52.039
theology matters. It has implications because as I've mentioned, there's

589
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.599
been so much spiritual abuse, so much division, people walking

590
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.400
away from their faith because of the terrible teachings in

591
00:32:58.440 --> 00:32:59.000
this movement.

592
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:00.880
So what you blieve matters.

593
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.519
Just going to play a SoundBite here, folks. I think

594
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.839
the Bible is pretty clear. One reference would be one

595
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:12.599
Timothy chapter six, where nobody has seen God, nobody has

596
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.200
the privilege of seeing his face, and paul was clear

597
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.680
about that. Maybe there's chapter in verse where the exception

598
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:23.079
is paul A White because she has gone to the

599
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:26.640
throne room of God and seen him, if not face

600
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.680
to face, she has certainly been right in his presence.

601
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.279
And I literally went to the throne room of God.

602
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.559
I won't say much, but I'll say something that's important

603
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:41.240
for me to teach you here today. So in that

604
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.359
divine encounter, I don't know how long I was there.

605
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:48.839
I just know that kind of power is almost impossible

606
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:50.960
for a natural body to contain.

607
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:52.440
It.

608
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.599
As I went to the throne room of God, first

609
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.599
I saw there was a mist that was coming off

610
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:00.480
the water. And I went to the Throne of God.

611
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:03.960
And I didn't see God's face clearly, but I saw

612
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.319
the face of God. It wasn't a clear not like

613
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:09.400
I could see your face clearly.

614
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:11.760
But I knew it was the face of God.

615
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.320
And as God begin, he put a mantle on me,

616
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.000
and it was a very distinct mantle.

617
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:21.079
I had no idea.

618
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.519
That Apostle had prophesied. I think you said that there

619
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.920
was a mantle that was coming upon me, that there

620
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:30.559
was a new mantle coming upon me. And there was

621
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.119
a mantle, and I saw it very distinctly. The color

622
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:38.480
was like a goldish, but it was a yellowish goldish,

623
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:40.960
a little bit different than your scarf, a little bit

624
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.199
brighter than your scarf there. And then I saw the

625
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.679
earth for a moment, and he brought me back, and

626
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.280
he put me in certain places, one being the White House.

627
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:52.840
If you just joined me, you are listening to understanding

628
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:53.159
the time.

629
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:57.920
Now, See when I hear that, I don't hear NAR.

630
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.880
I hear charismatic. I've been hearing that kind of craziness

631
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.159
since I became a Christian, all through the eighties, the nineties,

632
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:09.039
the two thousands, way before the NAR was it. That's

633
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:14.679
just normal, crazy, crazy, crazy charismatic stories about seeing God

634
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.280
and being brought here and shown this and shown that

635
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:20.440
and shown I mean, it's to me, it's charismatic. One

636
00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:24.039
oh one, Why are we drawing a distinction? See, the

637
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.480
problem is the NAR I guess went to extreme, went

638
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.800
to extreme. But every time Christians try to fight the

639
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.960
extremes within the charismatic world, they never want to go

640
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.559
to the root of the problem, which is charismatic theology

641
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.719
at its very basis. Stut. We always want to go, oh,

642
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.679
the Vineyard movement went too far, or this went too far,

643
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.639
or this went too far. It's because it all comes

644
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:55.800
from the same poison, the charismatic movement. That what you

645
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.159
hear that, You're like, oh, that's nar. No, that's called

646
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:03.039
charismatic theo theology speaking teaching. And it's been going on

647
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:05.599
well as long as I've been a Christian, I've heard it.

648
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:06.880
Over All you had to do is just turn on

649
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.280
Christian television and see the charismatic televangelists. And they all

650
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.159
had these same kind of crazy stories. It's not literally

651
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:17.400
nothing new. You could get Charisma magazine and look at

652
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.079
the stories in there about who I was taken to

653
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:22.239
the throne room of God and I saw this, and

654
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.480
I saw that, and God told me this, and God

655
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:26.280
told me that, and this is going to happen, and

656
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:31.400
this is going to happen it's there's literally nothing unique

657
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:33.400
about that at all in the charismatic world.

658
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:37.840
I'm the radio I'm jan Mark Hill have on the

659
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:42.639
line here from Alaska Hollypiviic. Learn more at hollypiviic dot com.

660
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:47.320
Look into her brand new podcast on all the podcast platforms. Holly,

661
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:49.320
give me your thoughts on what you just heard.

662
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.199
Yes, So, it's very common for people who claim to

663
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:56.360
be apostles in this New Epistolic Reformation movement to claim

664
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.480
that they went to the throne room of Heaven, or

665
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:03.000
were visited by Jesus Christ personally, or had all these

666
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:06.159
type of encounters. And that's because in the eyes of

667
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:10.000
their followers, that affirms that they are indeed an apostle.

668
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:13.079
So these type of claims are very common.

669
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.960
You made a comment three four minutes ago, and I

670
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.280
think you made a reference to Bethel Church that's ready

671
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:24.800
in California, and that's the organizations that's spearheading this NAAR

672
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.719
New Apostolic Reformation movement. And Holly, I've done programming and

673
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:35.360
you've interviewed people, because this movement is infiltrating churches at

674
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:38.519
a phenomenal rate, as scary type of rate. They have

675
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.079
global influence, and you would be one of the first

676
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:43.920
to you've written about the global influence that they have

677
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:48.119
the modern day apostles and prophets. But again, this infiltration

678
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:51.880
of churches, And again do you think that the infiltration

679
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.320
is happening because there's just a death of discernment and

680
00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:59.320
the churches some anyway are letting almost anything in.

681
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.800
That is the case that there is a huge lack

682
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:07.440
of discernment among Christians today. That's one reason I started

683
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.480
my podcast was to equip Christians to learn how to

684
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:14.599
become more discerning. People don't have biblical knowledge, so they

685
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:18.440
can't detect when these teachings are not biblical. Sadly, people

686
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:20.559
don't know how to read the Bible in context, and

687
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.760
so when the apostles and profits in this movement take

688
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:25.360
a Bible verse and rip it out of context and

689
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.880
claim it supports one of their Avran teachings, many people,

690
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.960
unfortunately can't even see how the Bible is being misused.

691
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:39.519
And I think, see, now this goes Sorry, my microphone

692
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.280
got messed up there. See now, this is exactly what

693
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:44.960
I was talking about at the beginning. See, going after

694
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.280
all this abhorrent theology she's talking about they take a verse,

695
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:50.360
they take it out of context. People don't how to

696
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.719
read the Bible in context. What do I constantly review

697
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.760
sermons from churches that would be considered good churches, And

698
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.280
what do we see over and over and over ripping

699
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:03.440
verses context, making Isaiah forty through fifty five say things

700
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:07.039
that hasn't it's not even saying, taking things like the

701
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.440
Jesus in a storm and making the storm about your

702
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:12.000
life and my life and all of these things. It

703
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:16.559
happens so frequently. Forget the crazy churches, we can't get

704
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.920
the Bible right, and the so called good churches, there's

705
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.000
no understanding of herman nutics. There's no understanding of how

706
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:26.199
to do exo Jesus anywhere close there's is of Jesus

707
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:30.239
turning passages into allegory, ripping them out of context, making

708
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:34.239
them about us, forgetting the original recipients. This is every

709
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.280
sermon I review, we find the same problems. And we're

710
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.159
not even in the crazy world. We're in the normal,

711
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:45.199
supposed good churches who've all signed a statement saying they

712
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.679
agree with the statement of faiths say on sermonaudio, which

713
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:50.119
is against the charismatic movement. So they're opposed to the

714
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.239
charismatic movement. They're opposed to that entire world. But there

715
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:57.280
it's the problem is Hermaeutics has been drug out back,

716
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.840
We've shot at fifty seven times, has bled out. It's dead,

717
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:04.599
and the church plays these weird, little loose games with

718
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:08.519
scripture later being everyone vulnerable. So if this pastor can

719
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:10.920
rip scriptures out of context, make it say things or not,

720
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:13.599
then how far of a step is it that these

721
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:16.199
people go even a step further and make us say

722
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.679
these verses out of context, say whatever they want. The

723
00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:21.840
point is Bible hermoneutics in the modern church, as everyone

724
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.360
does what is right in their own eyes. There's no rules,

725
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:28.239
there's no nothing governing it. Nobody can agree on anything.

726
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.400
We can't seem to figure out one verse. Everyone thinks

727
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.920
they know what it means. Everyone thinks they're an expert.

728
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:38.559
It's just anarchy. So that's how you get to the NAAR.

729
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:41.719
That's how you get to the charismatic movement. I'm not

730
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:44.320
gonna blame the charismatic movement. I'm gonna blame the good

731
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.840
churches who can't seem to figure out how to handle scripture.

732
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:49.559
The good churches can't even under we can't even agree

733
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:51.199
on what baptism is or is and who's it for,

734
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:53.639
what it's not for? Is it by immersions, by sprinklings,

735
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:56.280
for babies or for only believers? Good churches can't even

736
00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.519
figure that out. Is repent it's a change of mind?

737
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.760
Or is a change behavior? We can't even figure that out.

738
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.039
We can't even figure out the proper distinction between long

739
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:07.039
and gospel. We cannot figure out if salvation is truly

740
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.440
proven and base, Oh what Jesus did? Or I have

741
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:13.320
to do something. We can't figure out literally anything, And

742
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.920
we want to yell at the charismatics as being whacked out.

743
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:20.159
Start with the good churches who can't figure out anything,

744
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.719
Then well how far of a drive If you're like, well,

745
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:26.639
none of these people can figure anything out. They can't agree.

746
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:29.199
The Baptists disagree with the presby, Presbyterians disagree with the

747
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:32.280
Lutherans disagree with it. The reform disagree with the non reform.

748
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:35.480
Nobody can agree. Everyone argues everyone thinks they're right. Okay, well,

749
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.920
then at least the charismatics they got maybe they got

750
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:42.159
better music, better worship. It seems more fun. They seem

751
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:44.280
to have more zeal, They seem to have more passion,

752
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.760
want to just go there. I can see, at least

753
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.599
from that vantage point, how you can be. I mean,

754
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.760
if everyone's doing what is right in their own eyes,

755
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:57.559
then what's wrong with this movement? The problem is the

756
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.559
church killed hermeneutics. We killed it.

757
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:02.000
We killed it.

758
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:05.280
And all you gotta do is listen to all the

759
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.719
sermon reviews we do. We spent all of twenty twenty four,

760
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:11.679
all of twenty twenty four doing sermon reviews on the

761
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:13.880
sermon's two point oh app. I challenge you people to

762
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:16.440
listen to one sermon per day from that app. That

763
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:20.000
app every broadcaster on that app has signed a statement

764
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:21.960
of faith, and it would and if you saw that

765
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.400
statement of faith, you'd be like, Oh, that's a good church.

766
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:27.880
That's a good church rejects the charismatic movement believes in

767
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.719
the sufficiency of scripture solo scripture. All of the things

768
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:33.920
that's on there, you would be like, that's a good church.

769
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:36.880
And then listen to the breaching and listen to what happens.

770
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.039
Listen to all of the disagreement on the app that

771
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.480
this person disagrees with this, and this one interprets it

772
00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:44.639
this way, and this one interprets it this way, it's

773
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:47.719
just a free for all. Even though there's a statement

774
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:50.880
of faith govering it, meaning even within a certain agreed

775
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.400
upon theology, it's still chaotic when it comes to hermeneutics.

776
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:03.039
To me, what we did in twenty twenty four. Well,

777
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:05.119
and then look, well, these people in the curagement in

778
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:09.199
the nar they take verses out of context. Welcome to Christianity.

779
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:15.360
So many of us really appreciate the many things that

780
00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:18.440
President Trump is doing. So this segment is not necessarily

781
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.800
beat up on Donald Trump. We're disappointed in his discernment

782
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.360
in this particular case here as it concerns the selection

783
00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:27.960
of again she is head of the faith based office

784
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.840
in the White House. Again, this would be Paul white Kine.

785
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:34.639
And I think my listeners feel a little bit helpless.

786
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.440
I mean, they can send emails, probably not going to

787
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.719
make any difference whatsoever, But is there anything that you

788
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.400
are advising your followers to do as it concerns and

789
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.920
quite frankly, this was the case in his first term

790
00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:49.079
as well. I believe she was head of it at

791
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:51.639
that time as well. But here we are now heading

792
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.199
way way into twenty twenty five, and this is one

793
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:56.159
of the most troubling things that we're looking at.

794
00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:58.679
I would think the believers need to all grow in

795
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:02.800
discernment can recognize when people are being put forth like

796
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:06.119
Paula White Kane, who do not represent biblical Christianity.

797
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.679
Of course, prayer is huge.

798
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.559
We need to pray that President Trump will bring into

799
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:13.880
the Faith Office and surround himself with those of biblically

800
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.480
sound faith. And that's one thing President Trump needs to

801
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.159
realize is when he puts people like Paula White Kine

802
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.159
into the White House Faith Office, then sadly he's going

803
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:28.760
to lose the support of many sound Christians. So he

804
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.239
needs to choose biblically sound Christians for those roles if

805
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:35.480
he wants to maintain the support of many of those people.

806
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.000
And I think President Trump, and I think you would

807
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.119
agree with me, has placed some importance on wealth himself.

808
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.199
And he's a very successful man. Let's not take that

809
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.000
away from him. But I wonder if he didn't transfer

810
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:52.239
some of that funness for wealth onto a supposed pasture here, Paul.

811
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:56.719
Is that the only problem with President Trump his fondness

812
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:00.920
to wealth. Do we need to go through? Okay, you

813
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:03.880
expect Trump to have discernment and just see, this is

814
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.239
what the messed up thing about Christianity and politics. Well,

815
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:09.719
they need to get people who are sound, or he

816
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:12.159
may lose support of those Christians who are sound in

817
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.719
their theology. And then he puts someone who's sound in

818
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:16.960
their theology, he'll lose support from all the people who

819
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.760
supposedly aren't sound in theology. And who gets determined who's

820
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.800
sound in theology. Okay, it just turns into chaos. And

821
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.559
you know, that's where the whole political thing or whatever.

822
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:27.840
So they still want to be like, you know, they're

823
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.960
still pro Trump, but they're just like just you know,

824
00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:34.719
maybe he just kind of got a little confused here. Whatever. Okay,

825
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:39.559
that's frightening that anyone. It's just frightening to me. It's

826
00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:44.199
frightening whenever Christianity begins to have an influence on politics,

827
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:48.079
leading it to possible some down the road towards Christian

828
00:45:48.159 --> 00:45:51.599
nationalism and some craziness like that. I want the church

829
00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:55.280
and politics as separate as possible for many countless reasons.

830
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.800
But okay, let's let them go a little bit further.

831
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.159
And then I'll go through some of the issues with

832
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:03.039
nar and see, because we're almost out of time. We'll

833
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:04.519
just see we can go a little bit further here.

834
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:09.000
Well, White, who's all about money? I could play a

835
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.039
dozen clips to emphasize that I won't because our time

836
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:12.800
is so limited.

837
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:13.400
Yeah.

838
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.360
Paula White Kine has said that President Trump called her

839
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:19.039
out of the blue back in twenty fifteen. He had

840
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.119
apparently listened to some of her messages and really liked

841
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:24.400
what she had to say, and that's when he first

842
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:25.199
reached out to her.

843
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.960
Then she served as his spiritual advisor during both terms.

844
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:33.440
I imagine what really resonated with him was her prosperity

845
00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:37.960
gospel message that the emphasis on health and success and

846
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.559
wealth and all of these things would be very appealing

847
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:43.440
given what we know of the things that President Trump

848
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:44.440
really prioritizes.

849
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:48.079
And here's what I think concerns me. Give me your feedback.

850
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:51.639
But it's what's known as the seven Mountain mandate. Now

851
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:55.079
in the NAR, in the New Apostolic Reformation, there are

852
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.599
seven categories that members of that movement feel they must dominate,

853
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:05.199
and they would be politics, business, media, faith, family, arts,

854
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:10.760
and education. I'll say that again, politics, business, media, faith, family, arts,

855
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.159
and education. That would be the seven Mountain mandate. So

856
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.880
they would like to dominate politics as well. I don't

857
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.480
know if this plays in, but it would fit in

858
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:24.039
with the seven Mountain mandate of taking dominion over all

859
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:26.960
of these categories, starting with politics.

860
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:31.679
The leaders and then our movement absolutely have viewed President

861
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:35.400
Trump as a means of enacting their seven Mountain mandate.

862
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:39.199
Many profits in the New Apostolic Reformation have prophesied. They've

863
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.199
said that God has revealed that the way the Church

864
00:47:41.239 --> 00:47:43.480
is supposed to take dominion of the earth under the

865
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.880
leadership of the apostles and prophets is by taking control

866
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.480
of those seven major societal institutions that you named, and

867
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:54.280
the prize of all the mounds, the emphasis is the politics,

868
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:57.320
the government Mountain, and of all nations in the earth.

869
00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:00.760
The emphasis is the US government and getting to the

870
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:03.280
top of that the role of president, because that is

871
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:06.679
seen as the most powerful office in all of the earth.

872
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:09.440
Many people like at Bethel Church and Reading. You can

873
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.440
see pictures of them with President Trump and the White

874
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:14.920
House praying with him at prayer gathering. And Bethel Church

875
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.920
and Reading is one of the churches that is pursuing

876
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:20.719
this seven Mountain mandate and teaches this, and so they

877
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.239
absolutely see President Trump as they're hoping that he's a

878
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:26.199
means to fulfill that mandate.

879
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:29.119
Well, they're also hoping to bring Heaven to earth, and

880
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:33.039
that's called dominion theology, that we can in fact make

881
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:36.679
earth almost I guess, in perfection of heaven. They do

882
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.800
believe very strongly in a coming revival. I think they

883
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:43.599
feel that is at the door. My Bible says that

884
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:47.000
happens during the seven year tribulation, that rather the Church

885
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:50.719
is in the stage of Laodicea as we speak, or apostasy,

886
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:53.920
not headed for revival. And Holly, I know you would

887
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.440
confirm that again. Dominion and then a coming revival are

888
00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:59.599
two big factors in the movement.

889
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:01.880
And our leaders teach that it's the task of the

890
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:04.800
Church to take dominion of the earth. And they believe

891
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.360
that there will be something called a billion soul harvests

892
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.960
that their prophets have prophesied that over a billion people

893
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:13.360
will convert to Christianity. But that will be because the

894
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:16.400
apostles and prophets are doing all these amazing miracles that

895
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:20.559
will shock in awe everyone. They'll be televised and under

896
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.960
the leadership of the apostles and prophets this global revival

897
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:27.519
will occur that will allow the church to then take dominion.

898
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:34.679
And again this billion man, billion person revival, harvest of souls.

899
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:38.199
I've been hearing about this what forever in the charismatic world.

900
00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:40.599
So again, there's not anything they said that makes me

901
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:43.800
go ooh. In ar is so different than charismatic. It's

902
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:48.639
the it's the same poison. I don't know how else

903
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:50.960
to drive that home. If you want to fix, if

904
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.239
you want to if you're going to stop worrying about

905
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:57.320
all these offshoots of insanity, go to the root of

906
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.119
the insanity. It's charismatic theology.

907
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:04.559
It is poison, it is evil, it is messed up.

908
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:11.159
Run for your ever living life, folks.

909
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:14.199
There's so much in this movement that I think you

910
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:16.760
need to learn about. And I'm going to drive you

911
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:23.159
once again to Holly's website hollypivoc that's spelled pivc hollypivoc

912
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:26.280
dot com or tap into her new podcast on the

913
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:29.880
podcast platforms, but her books and her website you can

914
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:33.039
learn about this movement. I'm sorry to be blunt here

915
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:36.239
trying to take over not just a church, but the world.

916
00:50:36.559 --> 00:50:39.840
And again, our concern is that one of the leading

917
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.840
spokeswomen for the movement, Paula White Kine, is not just

918
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:46.559
a member of the Faith Based Office, but the head

919
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:50.119
of President Trump's Faith based Office. So again, these are

920
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.039
things to be concerned about, to pray about. And when

921
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:55.280
you think of some of the other options that could

922
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.280
be in that position, from Jack Kibbs to Gary Hamrick

923
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:00.480
to so many more that we could name, we just

924
00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:01.840
find it a tragedy that.

925
00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:07.639
Jack Hibbs insane. So no, see, even right there, Jack Kibbs,

926
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:10.119
I mean we remember, that's the one the only time

927
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:12.719
I've ever reviewed a sermon that in the middle, I said,

928
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:14.599
that's it, I'm done, And I said I would never

929
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:16.880
review another sermon by him, and wouldn't stop listening to

930
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:20.239
him because that's how bad. So even right there, I

931
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:26.039
don't even agree with them, because see crazy, the cops

932
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:27.960
are coming here, the sirens in the background, they're coming here.

933
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.719
They're like, that guy's going to lose his mind, right,

934
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:32.679
all right, So let's do this. Let's do this again.

935
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:35.760
You can go understanding the Times, Jan Markel, you should

936
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:37.559
go listen to it. You can listen to the rest

937
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:39.519
of it. I'm going to go through this relatively quick

938
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.039
so if you're taking notes, you need to write fast.

939
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.639
Here's some of the key issues that we need to

940
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.679
be concerned with. Number one right, Here are some of

941
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.920
the key issues ready Biblical error. The NAR New Apostolic

942
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:56.800
Reformation adds new revelation and apostles beyond scripture and undermines

943
00:51:56.840 --> 00:52:01.840
solo scriptor. The charismatic movement has been doing this. Forget

944
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:05.000
the NAR. The charismatic movement's been doing this. They've added

945
00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.559
new revelation. God said this to me, and just let

946
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:09.960
it be known. That's not just in the charismatic world.

947
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:12.639
In churches that claim not to be charismatic, you can

948
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:15.239
listen to sermons on sermonaudio. God said this to me.

949
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.239
God told me this. God said this. God told me this.

950
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.920
God said this. God told me this. God said this.

951
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:23.760
Unless the next words out of your mouth this scripture.

952
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.320
God did not say anything to you. You're hearing things,

953
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.719
you're imagining things. You're taking your thoughts to be God's thoughts,

954
00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:33.920
and your thoughts are not God's thoughts. That's why we

955
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:36.719
have a written revelation outside of ourselves. The only way

956
00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:38.320
to hear from God is to read his word. The

957
00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:43.400
end the canon is closed. Revelation has seized, all right,

958
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:47.360
So that's a problem throughout the church, all right. Now

959
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:52.000
the apostles may be a step further, but the New Revelation,

960
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:54.920
it's the constant in the charismatic world, and even in

961
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.639
most evangelical church, they constantly claim God told him this,

962
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:02.679
God told him this, God showed them this. Right, So

963
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:06.159
there's the biblical error. They add New Revelation the philological error.

964
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:10.400
It teaches dominionism, claiming Christians must rule earthly systems before

965
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:14.880
Christ returns. Well, even people who don't hold to dominionism,

966
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:18.119
even if their eschatology may hold to a different system.

967
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:21.360
Christians have been trying to dominate things forever. They don't

968
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:24.039
they want They wanted MTV removed from the air. They

969
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:27.119
wanted to ban certain music. They want books taken out,

970
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:30.000
they want books burned, they want the Christians are always

971
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:35.360
trying to dominate society, to make society be more Christian friendly.

972
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.920
They want people to be forced to live like Christians

973
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:42.519
who are not Christians. Christians have been doing that. Forget Charismatics,

974
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:45.880
forget the n R. Christians in general want some to

975
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:49.519
dominate society. They want to take over. They want they

976
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.079
almost want some form of theocracy. They want some form

977
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:56.719
of Christian nationalism, and Christians have been doing that going

978
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.599
all the way back to the eighties to Great Satanic Panic,

979
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.800
all the things Christians have tried to do. I've watched

980
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:05.320
it over and over and over and over and over again.

981
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.920
So there's nothing even unique really about the NAR about that,

982
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:11.719
or even the Seven Mountain mandate. So there's a biblical error,

983
00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:15.880
there's a philological error, hermeneutical error. The Seven Mountain teaching

984
00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:20.400
is based on severe misinterpretation and misapplication of scripture. Well,

985
00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:26.159
Christians in general have hermeneutical errors of great significance, and

986
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.760
we talk about them all the time. So there's nothing

987
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:31.679
unique about the Charismatic movement or the NAR when it

988
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:36.039
comes to hermoneutical error. That's just in general and Christianity.

989
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:38.599
Nobody wants to really care about how to get to

990
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:44.880
the text. Logical error. It confuses descriptive Biblical text with

991
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:49.280
prescriptive mandates. The Charismatics do it all the time. NAR

992
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:51.920
does it all the time. Your church probably does it.

993
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:55.079
Takes passages that are descriptive and they treat them as

994
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:57.920
being prescriptive. These are the errors that are true throughout

995
00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:05.480
Christianity and throughout the world adds basically extra revelation teaches

996
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:09.000
dominionism in some way, shape or form. And there's hermeneutical

997
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:12.400
errors where you miss interpret scripture and then they just

998
00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:16.639
confused descriptive passages with prescriptive and this presents that false

999
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:21.039
cause and effect between cultural control and spiritual transformation. Those

1000
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.440
are just some of the key issues. Now, if we

1001
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:26.599
want to go outline some of these errors biblical errors,

1002
00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:31.079
restoration of apostles and prophets. God is restoring the offices

1003
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.880
of apostles and prophets with authority equal to that of

1004
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:36.639
the early Church apostles. Now, this may be the one

1005
00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:41.239
unique thing about NAR. There's been many other charismatics that

1006
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:43.599
have done the same thing. Back when I was in

1007
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:45.280
the military, I worked with two men who claimed to

1008
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:47.480
be apostles, and I was like, you guys are out

1009
00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:49.559
of your ever living mind. Okay, you're crazy. And then

1010
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:51.559
I told you the story about how they told a

1011
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:53.280
woman she was going to be healed to cancer. Of

1012
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:55.800
course she died, and of course they went and hid

1013
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:58.719
because they were liars. Okay, but don't even get me started.

1014
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:03.800
So that's kind of a major claim in this world,

1015
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:08.199
and this in the na world and some pentecostal or

1016
00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:11.519
in charismatic world. All right, so we could talk about

1017
00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:15.679
that problem, the new revelation problem. We've talked about it,

1018
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:18.440
and then the Seven Mountain theology. So really, if we

1019
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:20.400
want to kind of break these errors down, you got

1020
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:22.679
the restoration of apostles and prophets. You got the new

1021
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:26.960
revelation claim. God gives ongoing authoritative revelation through the prophets

1022
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:30.239
and apostles. But to be fair, the charismatics believe that

1023
00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:32.960
God is speaking to anyone and everyone, so everyone has

1024
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:36.519
ongoing revelation, and they all believe their revelation is authoritative.

1025
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.320
So whatever they may believe, the revelation through the apostles

1026
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.000
and their prophets is more authoritative. But they all claim

1027
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:46.199
to hear from God and God speaks to them, all right,

1028
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:49.800
And so it basically destroys Sola script Torah, the Seven

1029
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:53.800
Mountain theology. It's based on Isaiah two to two and

1030
00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:01.079
Revelation seventeen nine. Christians must conquer seven mountains. Religion, family, education, government, media, arts, entertainment, business.

1031
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:07.280
Both passages are misapplied Allegorically, neither teaches cultural dominion. Mountains

1032
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.719
and revelation refer to kingdoms of the beasts, not spheres

1033
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:14.079
or Christian conquest. Right then we talked about dominionism. I

1034
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:18.119
could just go through all of these issues. We talked

1035
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:20.320
about the hermeneutical errors. Some of the things they do

1036
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:25.000
with spiritualize Old Testament texts like Isaiah two. They ignore

1037
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:29.920
historical grammatical context, audience, and redemptive timeline. They pull verses

1038
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.000
out of context to support dominionism. All nations shall flow

1039
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:38.239
to it as a call for Christian takeover of society.

1040
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:41.840
There's kind of the abuse the text with their typology.

1041
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.599
I could go through all of these things. I could

1042
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:50.079
go through all of these things. The Nar and seven

1043
00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:54.280
Mountain Mandate represents a significant departure from historic Christianity and

1044
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:59.159
both theology and practice. It replaces scriptural sufficiency with modern revelation,

1045
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:02.960
supplies the Kingdom of God to political and cultural conquest.

1046
00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:06.119
It turns the gospel from good news about Christ's work

1047
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:09.639
into a program of human effort to redeem culture. It

1048
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:14.400
fails to distinguish law and gospel, leading to legalism, confusion,

1049
00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:18.440
and false hope and earthly success. A faithful Biblical response

1050
00:58:18.519 --> 00:58:21.239
is to return to a Christ's centered teaching, embrace the

1051
00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:24.480
already not yet nature of the kingdom and recognize the

1052
00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:28.280
call to be faithful witnesses, not political conquerors, and a

1053
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:31.920
fallen world. All right, And then if you want to

1054
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:36.920
talk about how this movement has infiltrated the Trump administration, Oh,

1055
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:39.880
I could go all the way idea, I could cover

1056
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.000
lots of things here. Naar dominionism taught that Christians must

1057
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:47.760
take back the Seven Mountains of culture, especially government and media,

1058
00:58:47.840 --> 00:58:51.400
which aligned perfectly with Trump's message about draining the swamp

1059
00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:57.239
and fighting the deep state, giving some kind of prophetic legitimacy.

1060
00:58:57.760 --> 00:59:03.719
Many NAR leaders prophesied Trump's psidency. Before twenty sixteen, Christian

1061
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:08.719
nationalism synergy. NAR teachings merged with Christian nationalism rhetoric, fueling

1062
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.519
the belief that America has a divine destiny and that

1063
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:15.559
Trump was key to its restoration. Some of the key

1064
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:20.880
figures here, what's his name, Lance? I always forget his

1065
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:23.360
last name, Lance. What is it? Let me look here,

1066
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:26.480
Lance wall Now? I think is how you say his name?

1067
00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:31.960
Lance Wallnow is a leading proponent of the Seven Mountain mandate.

1068
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:36.480
He declared Trump is God's chaos candidate, compared him to Cyrus,

1069
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:40.199
and Isaiah forty five wrote God's Chaos Candidate, which promoted

1070
00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:43.880
Trump as chosen by God to reclaim America. Paula White,

1071
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:48.760
Trump's spiritual advisor, Dutch Sheets, an Naar apostotic leader who

1072
00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:53.800
held prayer events and prophetic declarations supporting Trump's presidency. Then

1073
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:59.119
you've got Cindy Jacobs, Chuck Pierce, other high profile apostles

1074
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:02.719
prophets in the an Naar movement who actively prophesied Trump's

1075
01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:06.480
rise and reelection, some even after the twenty twenty defeat.

1076
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:13.360
So yeah, they're all over the Trump administration. All right,

1077
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:16.880
they're all over it. So I'll just say this, The

1078
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:20.480
New Apostolic Reformation and the Seven Mountain Men date had

1079
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:28.000
a tangible and ongoing troubling influence on the Trump administration,

1080
01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:34.000
fusing spiritual warfare with political strategy, elevating prophecy over scripture,

1081
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:38.760
and encouraging a dominionist vision of governance rather than serving

1082
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:42.880
assault and light in the world. NAR influenced Christians sought

1083
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:46.800
to rule the world through a theocratic vision of power

1084
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:51.480
and prophetic endorsement. The result were deeply confused. The results

1085
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:56.519
were a deeply confused witness fractured theology and a politicized

1086
01:00:56.639 --> 01:01:02.320
gospel that strayed far away from the cross. That's how

1087
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:07.199
Ai describes the influence of NAR and Seven Mountain Mandate

1088
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.079
on the Trump administration. And obviously it does not give

1089
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:18.000
it a a positive review. It gives it a negative one.

1090
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:21.599
So there you go. We didn't get far, we didn't

1091
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:24.199
get more into it. But what I want you to

1092
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:28.159
see is we've got the charismatic world that's already fraudulent.

1093
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:33.079
You can see these offspring nar right, they gave birth

1094
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:37.239
to these, you know, evil theologies. To me, it's just

1095
01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:40.000
same old charismatic. But if you want to just repackage it,

1096
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:42.360
call it something different so you can draw some kind

1097
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:45.320
of thilological distinction to make you feel better, go ahead.

1098
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:48.199
It's the same stuff, just dressed up with a little

1099
01:01:48.199 --> 01:01:51.000
bit of different language. It's just maybe an evolution of

1100
01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:55.679
just your normal charismatic nonsense. It's there, Okay, I've been

1101
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:59.039
condemning it forever. To me, there's nothing new or unique

1102
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:01.760
about it. Everyone like it's so new unique. I think

1103
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:06.119
it's the same old stuff. What is dangerous, though, is

1104
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:15.440
it's influencing our government and its Seven Mountain Mandate this dominionism,

1105
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:22.000
this merging of Christianity with politics, this Christian nationalism, all

1106
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:28.039
of that craziness that is now going into other churches

1107
01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:31.519
and into the minds of many Christians who hold in

1108
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:35.559
to these ideas. And well, that's why the church has

1109
01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:39.800
been so politically hijacked. So was the church politically hijacked

1110
01:02:39.880 --> 01:02:43.079
or was it philologically hijacked which made it vulnerable to

1111
01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:49.199
the political hijacking? Is it the seven Mountain mandate, dominionism, nationalism,

1112
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:53.480
all of this stuff corrupted the church, making the church

1113
01:02:53.559 --> 01:02:58.679
vulnerable for the political hijacking. Did we just go there

1114
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:01.679
and open the door and welcome in all in, not

1115
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:04.440
really worrying about where some of the theological origins of some

1116
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:08.760
of these ideas are. Because many Christians are very they

1117
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:12.960
sound very like seven Mountain mandate, They sound very dominionism,

1118
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:19.239
They sound very like a lot of this stuff, even

1119
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.840
though they are in churches that don't believe it. When

1120
01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:25.400
it comes to politics, they talk like it. And that

1121
01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:29.000
is the troubling part. The other part is just your

1122
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:36.199
normal historical charismatic nonsense. This other stuff is the political

1123
01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:42.079
hijacking of the American church. That's the problem. And maybe

1124
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:49.760
we have the heretical hijacking of the American government. That

1125
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.920
is troubling. I don't want the government to be hijacked

1126
01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:55.880
by heresy, and I don't want the church to be

1127
01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:02.800
hijacked by politics. All right, go listen to Understanding the Times.

1128
01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:05.599
Get the name of the person being interviewed. Check out

1129
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:09.480
her website, her podcast, If she wrote books, you can

1130
01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:10.119
check those out.

1131
01:04:11.559 --> 01:04:13.880
And you say, well, what should we.

1132
01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:15.679
Be looking for? I wouldn't be. I'm not so much

1133
01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:20.679
looking out for NAR seven mountain mandate within the Christian world.

1134
01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:25.440
What I'm looking for is how this gets merged with politics,

1135
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:30.960
the political thinking of American Christians, how they've replaced Christianity

1136
01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:37.840
with this political It's a political spiritual hybrid. It's a mutation.

1137
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:42.920
And you may not be able to classify theologically saying

1138
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:46.679
that's nar that's charismatic, but it's such a political merging

1139
01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:51.599
of Christianity with political ideology that to me is the issue.

1140
01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:53.960
All Right, I'll stop there. Thanks for listening. Everyone, have

1141
01:04:54.000 --> 01:05:00.920
a great Friday evening, a great weekend. Godless,