More Axe Talk

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. More Acts Talk, More as Talk. We're gonna talk about the axe Head, We're going to talk about the Floating Acts. We're gonna have more discussion about it. And if the last discussion about the. Acts was frustrating and irritating, I don't think things are going to get any better. But we have to have more acts talk, right, We have to, right, I mean, don't you agree? I hope you agree? Well, thank you for tuning in. It is Wednesday, October sixteenth, twenty twenty four.

0:47 It is currently six fourteen pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Headquarters, the Theology Central Studio, the Theology Central Axe Headquarters. I don't know well, I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And for full transparency, I do not own an axe, all right. I have I. Ever used an AX? Maybe? Maybe? I mean I've probably I've seen them. I probably have used it in some capacity for something, But by no means am I an AX expert.

1:32 I am not. I know axe body spray. Remember that. Remember, but we're not talking about ax body spray. No, we're not. We're talking about a physical ax used to chop something down. That's what we're talking We're talking about the axe head and well losing it and it sinking in water and then it floats and then Okay, that's what we're talking about. And it has been very frustrating. I'm really trying to drive the point home. We're talking about an axehead. I'm really trying to drive that point home. And the reason I'm trying to drive that point home it appears when you listen to preaching about an axehead, an axehead is not really an axehead. An axehead, well, it's power, it's desire, it's fellowship, it's it represents supposedly a million other things than what it actually.

2:27 I know the text says this an axe head, but. No, no, no, no, no, no, really it represents this, this and this. Well, how do you know it represents this and this and this Well, because the pastor tells you it represents this. Does he need any textual cross reference to prove it represents this? No, he just needs his own imagination and it magically it represents that. Even though there's no textual basis for claiming. So that's yeah, that's. What we are dealing with. So this all started earlier today. I just chose a random sermon. I noticed the. Title check your Your Axehead. Now, as soon as I saw check your axe Head, when I saw the words axehead, I knew it was going to take me to Second King's chapter six, the famous story about the axehead that sinks into the water and is you know then it floats. Okay, I know the text all right, and I'm like, okay, I got that.

3:22 I know where that's going to meet it to lead. But as soon as I so axhead, I knew exactly I'm going to be in Second Kings chapter six. When I saw check your axead, I knew immediately this was going to turn into some kind of allegorical symbolic, spiritualized interpretation of Second King's chapter six. And immediately I'm like, well, we can use this to discuss hermeneutics, right, Well, hear how they argue for their spiritualized, allegorical symbolic interpretation, and then we can critique how they arrived at such an interpretation. But did we get any justification for their kind of illustrative, symbolic, allegorical approach.

4:06 We got none. We just told this is what it. Means, and they didn't feel any need to justify it, to explain it, to show the textual basis for it. That's what it means. And then everyone listening, as we heard, was just saying amen, Amen, amen. And it was a little bit frustrating, and we and so I'm gonna read through Second Second Kings chapter six, verses one through seven. Remember there's only seven verses to this story, and from these seven verses have come hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of hours of preaching that I believe.

4:47 Has nothing to do with the text. It's just, oh, it's just crazy. So we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna go back to the audio that we were reviewing. We're gonna skip ahead a little bit because there's a part I wanted to hear you if you listen to the last broadcast, you know, if not, I'll get you caught up. And then I have another. Message that has just shows randomly on Second King chapter six. We'll see if we can get into that and hear their hypotheses on the text. But what we're finding here is the handling of. This text seems to. How can I say this, Most of these churches that you will find, say on the sermon's two point oh app that are preaching on the floating axe head, all right, they would probably tell you that their hermeneutical system would be something like the historical grammatical method.

5:40 We take things literally. There would be. Very adamant about not an allegorical approach. But when they get to the floating axe head, they seem to just throw out all of those hermaoneutical principles and it just goes into full blown symbolism. This represents this, This represents that, but they don't need a script justification for it, which can be a little maddening. So we're kind of stuck here, right. My desire today was not to get into Second Kings chapter six, verses one through seven talking about a floating axe head. But that's where we've ended up. And sometimes that can be wonderful, sometimes it can be maddening, but it is really the character of this podcast, right. Look, this podcast is simply the podcast of a center sitting in front of a microphone trying to live out his Christian life. One of the things I do to live out my Christian life is read.

6:34 The Bible, study the Bible. Listen to sermons, listen to different Christian podcast lectures, things along those lines. And then I. See them as they're presenting their hypotheses on a text, and then I go and study the text to see whether I agree or disagree. And that's kind of what the Christian life is really about in many aspects. And I just kind of do it all live on the air. That's kind of really what if you really want to kind of explain what this podcast really is. It's just a center with a microphone trying to figure out the Christian life, and I just invite you to participate. You just kind of get brought into the study and you get to kind of see what's going on. It's like when the micro when when you get that notification that the Theology Central podcast is live, you just kind of like, oh, well, let's let's open the door and see what's going on in the study. Oh oh, he's he's looking at messages on Second Kings chapter six. Well, this will be interesting.

7:30 Let's see where this goes. And I when I start out, I don't even know where it's going to go. I would have never thought that on Wednesday, October sixteenth, at six twenty one pm, I would be still thinking about a floating axe head. But here we are, and every day is kind of a it's kind of its own mini adventure. There. I guess that's again. I think in some ways I love that part of this. Sometimes it can be maddening because I never I didn't want to get into a discussion about floating axe heads. But here we are, and we had other things to cover. But here we are. So are you ready? Let's go back to the text itself. Second Kings, chapter six, verse one, and the sons of the prophets said, unto Elisha, behold now, the place where we dwell with THEE is too straight for us. It's too small. There's not enough room, there's not enough space. We need a bigger place.

8:25 Let us go. We pray Thee unto Jordan, and take thence every man a beam, and let us make us a place where, make us a place there where we may dwell. And he answered, go ye. And one said, and one said, be content, I pray THEE and go with thy servants. And he answered, I will go pretty straightforward. There's no real controversy. Now, the controversies where people go through these texts and say, well, this represents this, and this represents this, and this represents this, and this represents this, and this represents this, and everyone in the congregation is like, wow. I've never seen that in the text. This is amazing. You know why you've never seen it in the text.

9:06 It's not there. Okay, you'll never see things in the text that aren't there. And if you see things in the text that aren't there, that's not great preaching. That's not being a great Bible student. That's being a great fictional writer or a great fictional storyteller. All right, but I digress, all right, verse four. So he went with them, and when they came to the Jordan, they cut down wood verse five. But as one was felling a beam, the axe head fell into the water, and he cried and said, alas master, for it was borrowed. Now, once we get here, basically the way and the sermon that we reviewed earlier today, basically the idea of them working is that they're living out the Christian life. That's the work is living out the Christian you're living out the Christian life. But when you live out the Christian life, you begin to lose your passion, you lose your zeal.

10:07 It just becomes routine. You become apathetic, you don't pay any attention. You may kind of get bothered by it, and it can have a negative impact on you, and so it becomes a negative thing. The next thing you know, you're not paying any attention because you're apathetic in your Christian life and you lose your axehead. What does the axhead represent? Well, according to the sermon we listen to, while it represented about seven hundred and fifty things. Okay, maybe that's a little hyperbole. It started with it represents your fellowship with God. Then it represented your work for God. Then it represented your effectiveness for your work for God. Then it represented your passion and your zeal. So it really, I don't we never really narrowed it down. It just kind of represented whatever the pastor wanted to say at any given moment, which was really frustrating because if it represents fifty things, how do you prove.

10:58 That it represents any of it? Yes, instead of it representing an actual axe head that just actually fell in the water and he's actually bothered by it, it represents something spiritual, it becomes spiritualized. Now I'm not saying they would deny the historical that this is a historical narrative or the historical reality, but they just ignored the historical narrative. They just turned it into this weird spiritualized thing. Okay, so so it represents this. Now we listened to all of that, and I kept saying, but wait a minute. If it represents my fellowship with God, it's going to be very difficult to maintain that spiritual picture because what does he say, Well, hang on before we even get there. So according to the sermon, the axe so they're working for God. You become careless, you lose your act seat, and axead represents all of these things. Fellowship, passion, zeal, effectiveness, work, all of these things. And then this person cried out and said, and this represents confession. This is where you come to God and you confess I've lost my axehead and you are broken and you're contried, and this is like confessing your sin. I don't know where that is anywhere in the text, but that's where. And he took the word cry went to someone nineteen looked at random verses that had the word cry connected it to second King six. There's no textual basis in doing that, but that's okay, and so it creates a good sermon. And then I can't say, well, wait a minute. The last one, two, three, four words of verse five, the man cries out, not

12:31 that I have sinned, not that I was complacent, not that I was apathetic, not that I was careless. He simply cries out, it was borrowed. So I'm like, well, wait a minute. If the axehead represents all of these things, then how do I understand it as being borrowed? My fellowship is borrowed. I'm borrowing fellowship, I'm borrowing passion, I'm borrowing effectiveness. Who am I borrowing it from? I'm borrowing it. Did I make a deal? Did I make an agreement that I come? Did I go to God and say I would like to borrow a little bit of fellowship? I would like to borrow. I just borrow it? Like, what does that even mean? The and the text? So I kept waiting for the pastor to get to the borrowing part.

13:16 Well, he never got to it. Our episode went like an hour and twenty minutes, and I finally just stopped. And so I was going to go to another sermon, but I was just curious because it was already cued up. I'm like, let me get to the borrowing part. What does he do with the borrowing part? How does he make the borrowing part work with the idea that the axe head represents all of these things? Because how do you borrow all of these things? It just seems a little confusing. So I've got I got almost right where he begins the borrowing part. You want to hear how he deals. With the borrowing part, aren't you ready? Let's let's at least hear this. And I really don't know. I don't know.

13:58 I'm hoping it gets better. I don't know. We're only going to go a little bit further just to get the basic idea, and then we're going to jump to another random sermon, just another random one that I chose on the axe head and see. What they do with it. So we're gonna get to get a little bit of everything in this episode. That's why I'm just calling it more ax talk. We're just having more discussion about axe heads, and well it's really a discussion about hermoneutics. But we can't really get into a discussion of hermonutics unless they really present an argument for their hermeneutical approach. But what you notice in many churches, you don't need to justify your hermeneutic. You just got to speak of it authoritatively, and everyone in the pew will just say amen and not have any idea that. Wait a minute, what is our hermonutical system in this church?

14:46 Is this a complete violation of it? That's a whole, you know, different discussion. But it's it's pertinent to this. But let's get to the borrow part. Let's get to the one. He borrowed it. So let me read it again. So the man verse five, but as the one felling a beam, the ix had fell into the water, and he cried and said. A last master, for it was borrowed. It was borrowed. Okay, Now again you can start trying to spiritualize all of this. But if you start spiritualizing the meaning of the ox head, then whatever the oxhead represents, then you have to be consistent in your argument that we borrow whatever it represents. Whatever it represents, we borrow it. Right, let's see how he handles that reality.

15:34 Now he's fixing to make some hay do you think anybody else's exe head would have swam? Not unless they're willing to confess. He showed that he believed that that man could help. I like the fact that he went to somebody smarter than him to find it. He obviously tried to find it. How do you know, because he went to exactly where he lost it. He knew where it came off. Why because as soon as he went down there he tried to go get. It, he knew exactly where it went off. Why. Well, if you're trying to cut down a tree and the axe head comes off, I think you know when it came off right now. I know. Earlier in the sermon he made it sound like that we're just sitting there or keep trying and we don't even realize the axe head's gone.

16:20 Well, he kind of made the. Inference earlier in the sermon that the man was just apathetic, complacent, wasn't even paying attention. No, if the man if we're, if we're This is a weird. Thing about symbolic allegorical interpretation is sometimes you speak of it as if it's real, and sometimes you speak of it as if it's not real. Well, if he's really cutting down a tree with an ax and the axe head goes flying off. I think you're going to know, probably in about one point two seconds, probably the very you're gonna know, right, and so you in fact, you probably even saw that the ox head went flying off, and if it fell in the water. I'm guessing he wasn't wearing headphones or right, I'm guessing he wasn't wearing anything over his ears, So I'm assuming he heard the splash, right, So I'm assuming he knows exactly what happened. What do you mean what because he went after it. No, he obviously knows because he was I don't know, chopping down a tree like okay, So all right, so I guess he went out. So now we're back to now the more literal he went after the accident.

17:32 So now it's literal. Is it literal? Is it figurative? Is it fellowship? Is it? I don't know, But he's going to get to the fact that it was borrowed. Let's see if this, if this stays consistent with the hermeneutic that's already been established earlier, which is this is all symbolic, this is all well, he may use the word illustrative. But the point is it all represents something other than what is actually there. So let's see how the borrow fits into all of this, or borrow fits into all of. This, which is what we normally do. Drops off. Oh my goodness, and immediately it's a reaction. I gotta do something, I gotta do something.

18:12 I gotta do something. And then guess what happens? He realizes, Man, it has gone down that muddy Jordan river, and without supernatural intervention, I'm never gonna get it back. Preacher, what's the matter with you? Boy? What's you crying about? What you squalling about? What's you so upset about? Master? The heads come off, the axe head's gone, and the last Master, it's borrowed. It's not your own axe head. God gave you something when he saved you. Gave you that. Desire, that burning inside you to do something, to be willing to do something. But all of a sudden, you're still swinging, you're still busy, you're still doing stuff, but you're doing it without the benefit of the axe head.

19:00 Yeah, okay, So the borrowed now means that we were given desire. So so now the axead represents desire that we were given at salvation. So at salvation we were given desire and it's borrowed desire because God gave it to us. So God gave it to us in a borrowed contractual way. We're just borrowing the desire. He didn't actually give it to me. He's just loan He loaned me desire and we're still out there working. Well, if the desire is gone, why are we still working. We're working out of obligation but not desire. So you know your axehead is gone and that you've you've lost. You've given back the loaned desire, so you've given back. Okay, let make sure how this works.

19:56 So desire is the accent. I thought it was fellowship, but okay, I don't know what it is anymore. It's represented so many things. It's very fluid, obviously, but in this case, it just represents desire. So you get saved and God's like, here you go, I'm going to let you borrow this thing called desire and you're going to have it. Now. You can keep working for God, but you're not doing it out of the right desire because you lost the desire, because you lost your axe head. And how did you lose your desire? What's not because you're not working? Because he says you're working. You lost your desire because I don't know you watched a rated R movie? You, I mean because earlier in the sermony makes a big deal about drinking and smoking crack and smoking weed and watching rated R movies. So is that how you lose your desire?

20:50 What? Did you lose your desire because you do this? And so what God let you borrow? In a sense you gave back? Or do you got to hold on to what you borrowed or it'll just fall off? Like you gotta be like, Okay, God gave me this desire, I gotta hold on to it. I gotta hold on to it. And if I don't hold on to it, it'll just it'll just go flying off the axe and then then the axe head falls into the ocean or to the water, or the Jordan or the pond or wherever. Okay, let's see if he explains it any so that and I'm not trying. I know it sounds like I'm trying to be sarcastic and I'm not. I look, if you're telling me the axe head represents fifteen things and if I lose the axe head, it's absolutely devastating for my spiritual life. Well, then I'm going to demand some kind of specificity and some kind of understanding or or I'm gonna I mean, come on, I mean, I have to understand it or or it?

21:50 What do I do with this? Operating in your own power? And to the naked eye, man, you look like you're just smoking, but in your heart you're empty. And he goes and he says to. Him, he says, pretty sure, he said, I lost something. I realize the seriousness. I well, what's a. Good word there. I comprehend how serious this is. Because it's borrowed. That means I am not now going to be able to work here at the church building a bigger building. I now have to go back to where I borrowed the axe because I now owed a debt and the. Servant is subject to the lender.

22:34 So now it sounds like the axet actually represents power. So you're doing things without the power of God, so God lets you borrow power. So the axe head represents fellowship, the ax head represents effectiveness, the axet represents desire, and the axe head represents power. I think that's the only things that represents so far. So it represents power. So God give lets me borrow power. But I can lose that power even though I'm working. I don't know the quite the steps it takes me to lose the power. And if God's given me power, so my power is greater than the power given to me to cause me to lose the power. Or do I have to keep the power or wouldn't the power keep me? I Okay, let's see it. Let's see if it makes any sense here.

23:24 Now I gotta go back and work for them because I gotta pay off a debt I. Lost my. Now wait a minute, this is now going back to the literal idea. Say I can't keep building. I got to go back to the people I borrow the axe head from and work for them to pay them back. Wait a minute, how does this work spiritually? So I lost the axaid. Now I have to go back to God, who's the one who loaned it to me, and work for him. But if you're already working for God, then how do you go back to not working? Who am I going back to work? I can no longer work for God. I gotta go back to the people I borrowed it from, but I thought I borrowed it from God.

24:06 They don't understand. Okay, if if what I borrowed was power desire in this stuff from God, I'm borrowed it from God. Now he think I can't keep doing this work for God because I got to go back to the person I borrowed it from. But I borrowed it from God. Now he's making it sound like I got to stop the work of God to go pay back the person I borrowed it from, But didn't I borrow it from God. I'm really really con Let's see if he cleans this up. My axe head, and.

24:48 Now I can't do what I wanted to hear you followed me, I can't do what I wanted to do because it was borrowed alast master for it was borrowed. Game changer. Life doesn't get to continue like it was. I'm gonna have to change. I like what the preacher says southern. I think he's southern. Where'd you lose a boy? Where to come off at? We always got to put an ad on there and don't give me the correct grammar or just behind the at. You know what kind of thing no, where's that at?

25:30 Boy? He said, Preachers ain't no hope. Again. Preachers just do this. We just create dialogue. We just started adding to the stories. I'm telling you, it's basically the Chosen and veggietails. It's just you, just the makeups. I don't I mean, how much. Creative license does a preacher have when explaining the biblical narrative? How much which creative license do I have to just add made up dialogue? Just tell just And I still don't understand the borrowed part. I can't keep working for God because I gotta go back and pay the person that borrowed it from But I thought I borrowed it from God. He didn't even bother to unravel that confused idea.

26:19 I don't literally understand any of this hermoneutical approach. I'm gonna let him just go a little bit longer, and then I'm assuming the stick in the water is gonna be Jesus dying, and it's gonna who knows what it's gonna turn into. But you can go finish this, because what we're gonna do is henry a minute. We'll just grab another random sermon and then we'll just see if we can find out what their hermonutical approach is to it, because I mean, I just man seven verses and the things preach. Look, I criticize a lot the absolute insanity within Christianity of no one agreeing on anything right. I say that all the time. It's maddening. There's so much.

27:05 Nobody agrees on this. Nobody agrees on this, everyone has their own interpretation. There seems to be no hermonutical rules. It's just absolute, total hermeneutical anarchy, with everyone thinking they're right and everyone else they think they're wrong. It's insanity. Like, I don't know how anyone can figure anything out. If you ever want to just see just look at Second Kings chapter six, verses one through seven, a very straightforward story about the lost oxhead and it being recovered, and next thing you know, it just turns into literally anything you want it to be. And you can go through church history and see these utterly radically different interpretations all from the same text. If we can't figure out that an axe head is simply an axehead that fell in the water and the axe head was made it, does it say here the axhead fell into water. Axheads are typically made of iron I think that's the typical understanding.

28:04 But the axhead represents a tool or not represents it is a tool, I should state that correctly. It is a tool that would have been of great value at that time. To lose it would be somewhat of a negative thing, because now you've lost something that you've borrowed from someone else, and they're going to be upset, and you know what, You've got to feure out how you're going to pay them back. So maybe this is just demonstrating first the man's concern that he may now have defrauded whoever he borrowed this from, and he doesn't know how he was going to pay it back, and this is going to be embarrassing, and this is going to be not a good situation. And maybe it demonstrates the profit caring enough about this, maybe seemwat trivial situation and intervening and God demonstrating maybe care over smaller things. I don't know how we approach it. Well, we can't just turn it into whatever we want. Now again, I've heard so I've been taught so many different interpretations on this.

28:57 But let's see if he cleans this up at all, the borrowed part really destroys everything that he's say, everything that he said, this represents the borrowed part. He just he just wiped it out because. Clearly I didn't borrow it from God, even though he made it sound like I did borrow it from God. What if I borrowed it from God? How do I go back to God to pay him back? Like? How does he where? I don't know how any of this works. You ain't getting it back, he said. Why he's out there in the river. It ain't coming back. You ain't got no diving gear, we ain't got no nets, and there ain't no way to get out there and get it.

29:41 I'm in a mess. And the preacher says. Where'd you say it was? He said, right over there? And he said, isn't it interesting you look in that passwords? You know passage? You know what you find out between the time that this boy lost it and the time they go to find that that guy now sees something he didn't see before. There's not a beam in the way. It ain't a big thing. It's a little thing. It's a stick. It's a sapling. But if that sapling is in the right place, it doesn't take a very big circumference to be able to block your view and to prevent you from getting to where you need to go. And the preacher said, there's something the way anything boy, Yes, sir preacher, watch it ad libing just a tad. I ain't got nothing to cut it with. My axe head is in the drink.

30:41 I don't have a weapon to cut it. Well, I don't have an app ad libbing just a bit, your whole cell making this entire scene up. You're just creating your own imaginary scene, in your own imaginary dialogue. You're not just ad libbing a You're just literally making something up and claiming that it's somehow. Second Kings, Chapter six, verses one through seven. I'll let him just finish this and then we'll go pull up the other one. I don't have a saw, I don't have a knife. I don't have anything, Preacher, I can't get it back on my own. Oh man, there is a mouthful there. I mean, I see the stick. I realize there's.

31:28 An object that has become an obstruction between me and the end. I get that, Preacher, there's an object that's an obstruction. And the Man of God said, where fell it? And he showed him the place, and he cut down a stick and casted it, and thither he doesn't see It's where do you get that this is blocking anything? Where is this is an obstruction? None of this is even. I understand now why the average Christian has no clue how to study the Bible, because if you listened to preaching, your conclusion would be you just read the text and make up stuff. That's how you do Bible study. You read the text and you just make up stuff. Just make it up, just make up dialogue, make up what's actually happening, just make.

32:31 It all up. Your Bible study method is read and make up, just make it up, and then you've studied the Bible. Now, see if I say that Christians will get all, men say, that's not true. That's literally what happens. How many sermons have we listened to were like, where is the text does not even imply that, it does not even say that, but that there'll be churches of hundreds upon hundreds of people. Everyone's saying Amen. Now, philologically, I may be in agreement with those churches. I may even agree with some of the points made I've said in this sermon. I agree with a lot of the points made. I just don't think it has literally anything to do a second King, chapter six, verses one through seven. And I don't know where now this is an obstruction, And he's like, I can't cut it down because I lost my axe head.

33:14 None of this is anywhere in the text. I understand that it fell over there. Matter of fact, I don't even know, Preacher, how it fell over there. And now I'm looking at it from this perspective, I see the stick, but. I ain't got no way to cut it down. Where is this coming from? Now? If I was to go to a text. About the virgin birth as well, it wasn't actually a virgin birth and actually represents this or this, and I just started making or even if I said it was actually a virgin birth, but it actually represents this or this or this, and I just start throwing out all kinds of things that are not in the text and just made up. People would lose their minds and say, you are a stinking heretic.

34:07 How dare you do that to the word of God. You're twisting it to your own destruction. But then there's other places you can just make up whostal conversations and discussions, and everybody's like, it's okay. Why the inconsistency, Why. You think that's in your Bible? Such a my new detail? What do you think that's weird? And the preacher must have an axe or a sword some because he cuts the stick down. There has to be a cutting away and a casting aside before the axe head's coming back up out of the drink.

35:00 I don't even know like this text is. I don't even know what's happened anymore, ladies and gentlemen, I don't know what any And everybody's sitting there saying amen, like they're hearing something so profound. I would be sitting there looking at my Bible. I'd be turning it upside down. I'd be laying on the floor holding the Bible over my head. I'd be I'd lay the Bible upside down and lay on top of it. I'd be crawling all over the floor, going what is going on? And everybody be looking, I mean, like you're lost your mind. I'm like, no, what's lost? What's caused me to lose my mind? Is? I have no idea what's going on here? But you're you're not supposed to so there's that. You can go finish listening to the rest of that. Check your axe head is the name of it? Please go listen to the rest. Please please go listen to the rest. Maybe we'll come back to it at some point, but I want to at least I wanted to get the borrowed part.

35:48 And the borrowed part did not help. In fact, the borrowed part actually seemed to contradict his entire picture, but he just went right past it. And now he's making up complete wholesale dialogue make I don't even I don't even know what to do, So let's go see. I chose another random one. What's this one? Let's check your ax head? What's this one? A lost axe head? A lost axe head? This is called a lost axe head. And what I simply did is I went to the sermon's two point o app and just typed in the word ax and just went boom. And I'm like, oh, here's lots of messages that mention an ax. Let's see if. And I didn't even check to see if this was Second Kings or anything but a lost axe Head. If I see that title, I know it's Second Kings Chapter six almost inevitably. Right, So all right, let's just see.

36:35 I hope the volume is loud enough on this one. All we're gonna do here is just try to listen long enough to hear what their hypothesis is, what's their hermaeneutical approach? Are you ready? Here we go six? I hope you're in July. I am in loving the stories of Elisha and the different applications that we're making to it. We're gonna do that again tonight. Second King's chapter number six. We have just. Come through the story of Naming being healed of leprosy. I was reminded when I was reading over this story that we're going to look at in just a minute.

37:15 It's amazing to me that when you look at some of the stories you'll have, you'll have somebody like the King of Moab, the King of Israel, and the King of Judah all involved in a chapter in the very next chapter, and these would be like the prominent figures of the day. And then the very next chapter, Elisha's dealing with a widow woman who was about to lose her two boys into slavery because she couldn't pay the debt. And then you read a story like Naman. And here is a man who is the captain of the Syrian army, very high profile individual, and God saves him for leprosy.

37:58 And then you come to chapter and it's about a Bible college boy. So let's stand by the way, this is the same sons of the prophets that the man that was in that his wife died, and so we could make it a Bible institute or a Bible college setting. And that's kind of what it is. And I want to talk about that tonight in the application. So notice what it says, beginning in the second King six, verse one, and the sons of the prophet said, unto Elisha, behold now, the place where we dwell with. THEE is too straight for us.

38:41 Now remember that word straight when we're on the New Testament, it means narrow, all right. He said, let us go, we pray Thee unto Jordan and take fence, every man a beam, and let us make a place there where we may dwell. And he answered, go ye. So what is he doing. He's saying, we need bigger dorms. We need we need we need more space. We need uh, we need more space. We need a bigger auditorium in this case it would go. And by the way, Hartland needs more dorms right now, so we need more dorm space. And he said uh, and he said go ye. And verse three and one said be content, I pray thee and go with thy servants.

39:23 And he answered, I will go. So he went with them. And when they came to Jordan, they cut down wood. But as one was felling a beam, an axe head fell into the water. And he cried and said, alas, master, for it was borrowed. And the man of God said where fell it? And he showed him the place, and he cut down a stick and he cast. It him thither. I love this, and the iron did swim. Now it doesn't tell us if it did the backstroke, but can you can you imagine? I mean, this is awesome. I mean, master, the axe head fell off of my off of my head, and it's and it's a borrowed I borrowed it. He goes, word in it fall. This is elive, word it fall.

40:14 It fell right there, and to thing, whoop. And by the way, iron don't swim unless God's in the control. I love this, and the iron did swim. Therefore said he take it up to thee and he put it in his hand and took it. Now, here's what I like to think about. Wherever everybody's thy where's he going to go with this? Well, that's why we're here tonight. Amen help us. Lord. I pray tonight that we might understand this story and how important it was to this young man that he might be able to see the wonderful works of God in his own life. And Lord, I pray that our. Young people would understand that they must they must also see God work in their own life, no matter how big it might be or how how small it might be.

41:01 So I pray that we might take this young man who was a Bible college student helping to build a new dorm, loses an axehead and sees the miracle of God because he knew that that axe head did not belong to him, and therefore it was a very serious situation to him. I pray we'd get some sense out of this tonight, make some great application. And Lords, you help us. In Jesus's name, we pray Amen. Now again, you know how I feel about the prayer before a sermon. God help us understand if God's the one helping helping us understand. If God is the one who's showing us what a text means, then ladies and gentlemen, there should be one interpretation. There's not one interpretation on one verse in the entire Bible. After two thousand years of church history, there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

41:59 We don't agree on anything. So if God is helping you and God is helping me, and we come up to different interpretations, then yeah, okay, so let's see. Let's see what how all we want to go. This is what we're gonna do. I know we're already at forty two minutes. What we're going to attempted to just determine is what is his hypotheses on what the axhead represents? Because I doubt Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna go with a symbolic idea. Now, maybe he's just gonna be like, no, this is an actual axehead. It doesn't represent anything. And what it demonstrates is God's care about a small detail, where in the other passages of second Kings and these miracles, God cares about great details. He did make that observation and passing that if you look at the context. It's like, well, there's kings, and then there's a widow, and there's there's a king, and then there's just a basically students from like a quote unquote Bible College, the School of the Prophets. Okay, okay, well all right, now you're making an observation observational exercise.

43:03 What do we always talk about You can't interpret until you do observation. Observation always comes before interpretation, and the quality of your interpretation interpretation determined is determined by the quality of your observation. He made a good observational you know statement. Hey, there's it seems to show God's involvement in big details or small details. Right now, we're onto something. Now is he going to stay there with that observation or is this getting ready to turn into why does it? I don't know, let's find out. You may be seated a lost axe head. That's what you're going to preach about tonight. Yes, especially the part where the Bible said and the.

43:48 Iron did swim. Now, I want you to think about this as as far as compared to the leprosy of naming with name and meant that he was under a death sentence now I act said falling into the water after failing a beam and the thing fly off and go into the water. I would say that. That is not as a big a deal as a leprosy of Naman. However, in the Economy of God, he shows us this story to help us understand it was important to the students.

44:31 All Right, this is good observational. I'm liking this right. He's comparing it to the story that comes before. He's saying that you could look at this as being a bigger thing a smaller thing, but it does demonstrate the importance. It is to the student. Okay, this is good, all right. Now, now we're getting somewhere. The last message there was like no we' they didn't. I mean, it was just an I don't even know what that was. This is at least all right, Maybe this is good. Maybe he's not even going to go with an allegorical symbolic approach. Maybe he's just going to be like, this is an I said, and here's what we can learn from it. I'm not going to say it represents that this could be I've got a little bit of optimism here. I'm I'm getting hopeful. I'm I'm man I'm gonna stand up on my chair and and and and and be.

45:15 Like, yes, I'm gonna start clapping this this is okay. I know you're telling me, don't don't get too excited yet. I know you're probably right. I probably shouldn't get you know, since I gave up hope A fell a whole lot better. If you have hope, you're gonna you're almost always going to be disappointed. So maybe I shouldn't have any hope. Maybe I should just be waiting for the inevitable trainwreck. Maybe let's see, it was something that was very important to him, and so we do. We will never uh. When God brings our attention to something like this, we need to be understanding that, yes, it is important. And it brings me right back to our young people that just like maybe we need a bigger miracle in our life about something that's going on.

45:59 They need to see. God work in their life, just like we need to see God work in our life. And so when you think about the leprosy of naming the woman that was about to have her children sold into slavery, the food short it is among the school of the prophets, the death in the pot all of those things seemed to be something that was very overwhelming. However, it was a big deal to a young man in the school of the prophets. So God said, let me show you this story, and we need to understand that. I remember one time a kid came down the aisle and he was crying, and I didn't know if he needed to be saved.

46:41 I didn't know if his mother was sick. And so he came down and he told me that his dog was sick. So we got down on our knees and we prayed for that dog. And later on we found out the dog got better. And I said, praise God. You know that boy, who was just a wee little lad, he probably eight or nine years old, he needed to see God do something in his life. And so I'm just saying, even though the story involves a man, a young man who is surrendered to the call of a prophet, willing to. Do the work needed to build a bigger building that. Would meet the needs of the school in which he attended, God said, this is a big deal.

47:22 This is. Wow, this is contextually consistent. It's making good observation with what comes before. It's acknowledging that in the if you look at the flow of the narrative right all of the other parts, they seem to be these really bigger issues, and this seems much more insignificant compared to the things that come before. That's a man alive. This is refreshing. This is like whoa after whatever the last thing was. So I don't even know if he's gonna maybe he's just going to completely stay away from the symbolic and the spiritualizing it is that this is really good. All right, let's see what happens.

48:09 That's a big deal. This is something that needs to be brought attention to. And I also like the fact that Elisha took it as a big deal. And Elisha understood that this young man needed to see God work in his life, just like the woman who needed to see her sons not to be sold into slavery and naming and being cured of leprosy, or or the food shortages in the school of the Prophets, or the death and the pot and all that that meant God. God wants to meet all of our needs. God wants to see God wants us to see Him in our life, no matter what the situation.

48:49 So you understand here. According to the story, that this man had gone out and borrowed an axe head because he wanted to be involved in the construction project. Now, let me just make sure that you understand this. If your dad has tools and you use them, go back put them back where they belong. All right, that's a big deal. I don't have a. Toolbox, but my wife doesn't, so I always try to take things back where she'll know where they're at. You understand what I'm saying. Why do I need to fix anything? That's why I have tj Amen. So we need to understand tonight that in the life of this person, God wanted us to understand that just like God was interested in Nayman's life, he's already he's also interested in this young man's life. Now here's what you need to understand tonight.

49:42 Your situation doesn't have to be headline. News for God to be interested. God wants us to call upon Him in any situation. Where we may need help. Now, I'm not here to pray preach about prayer tonight. I've done that a couple of weeks ago, and the model prayer and the asking and seeking and knocking. But I want you to understand. Yes, there are aspects of prayer, like praising the Lord and worshiping him, but you know that prayer comes down to asking God and seeking for God to do it and knocking on God's door. I like Philippians for six and here says this, be careful for. Nothing, but in everything, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your request.

50:29 Be made known unto God. Now I love it that Elisha was interested in those that were training for the ministry. I have to let you know that I. Have always since God called me into preach, that different men took an interest in me and helped me along the way to get me to be where I needed to be. And those that were willing to allow me to call them and ask questions. Listen, listen. Now I'm the old man receiving all. The phone calls and the question and that's okay because I am interested in helping people to go to the next point in their life where they won't just be where they're at, where they'll be the leader. They won't just be the follower, but where there'll be the leader.

51:15 And Elisha understood that this young man one day would be a prophet because he's in the school of the Prophets, and therefore Elisha was interested in him. And here's what I want to say to the church tonight. Personally, I think our church should be interested in those who are preparing for the ministry, because I think that we need to understand that not only do they need a mentor a pastor but to show them the way, but they all seem need a church to let them know what it should be like when they get in the ministry and they are the pastor or they are whatever it is.

51:56 We need to be interested in those people, in those young men. That's a I think that's a fair application. He's not saying this represents this, this represents this. He's just saying, hey, Elijah takes interest here. Well, there's men who are feel called to the ministry trying to go into ministry, and the church should take an interest. I think that that's a clear application. I don't think you're doing any that. This is very this is very level headed and normal and. I I. Yeah, I mean he's staying very consistent with this is a real acxeent. This is let's we'll go just a little bit further. This may be the sermon that can really be a good a good foundational one. And as as you're listening to any others on this subject, and.

52:49 There and and uh and by the way, those who have already gone out from us, we need to make sure that we make contact with them, remind them that we're praying for them. Now I'm talking about our missionaries. I'm talking about preachers. Who have left, and they need to be encouraged. They need to know that there's a church that sent them out that is still interested in them. Therefore, I believe we need to be involved in their lives as much as God allows. I believe their training not only needs to come from their pastor, but it also needs. To come from their church. A young man in training not only needs instruction from his preacher, but he needs to see a church that.

53:30 Is living out the ministry. Now, I want to say, unfortunately, in the church that I was saved in in San Antonio, Texas, I learned much about what not to do, meaning. I learned some negative things that that's not the way it should be. And then I came to Brian Baptist Church, and God brought us here to this place so that I could be instructed more perfectly in the way on how things should be. And so listen if you if you don't like the way I do things, here's what you better understand. I got all my training right here, and I love the history of our church, and I love the idea that our church is pretty much the same now as it's always been.

54:18 We haven't changed any doctrines. We might carry an iPhone, we might, we might have different things like that, but as far as the way we conduct ministry and the songs that we sing, and the philosophy that we have and the preaching that is preeminent, and the music that is prima. Hey, that's that's the way it's always been. How many times. Did I hear our pastor, Brother Gray set here and talk about the different choirs that were being taught at that time. Now, the only danger here, and I'm just gonna and I'm gonna state this danger because I do I can do the same thing and have done it many times.

55:02 You're drawing an application, right, So he's done very good with the text. Now, he could have gone back and and cited certain verses to build the context, but okay, he made reference to it. He didn't give us the references, but that's okay, we get the basic understanding. He's been very consistent. He's not doing anything, but he's kind of gone into application. Now I can do the same thing, and this is always a danger. Sometimes you can just kind of depart from the text and then just go so much into application that you really you've kind of abandoned the text. Now I'm not saying he has, because it's got a lot of sermon left, but you're kind of like, we get the idea, we get the idea, but he's really doubling down on the idea. That's okay.

55:48 But if you're not careful, then we're going to leave the text and people won't remember the text, will remember the application. And again, that can just be stylistic approach. But at least this is much more. I mean, I'm not even criticizing it. I'm just acknowledging that I sometimes afterwards wild feel like, well, you know, I kind of went so much into application on that point. I really just went all in on that, and I can kind of look back and go, well, so let's hope he gets back to the text here relatively quick. I would I saw my kids now I'm seeing my grandkids. Go through the cherubs and the junior choir, and I saw my kids do that, and he would sit over here.

56:33 We have graded choirs and now they're singing in the big choir. You know what that's all about. That's training. Let's to get us to a place. This is the future of Marion Baptist Church. And the reason that I send y'all an Andy's ice cream card each and every year for your birthday is I don't know which one of you might be my boss one day, so I want to cover my basic And they'll say, I remember when the old man used to send us Andy's. Somebody go over there and wipe the drool off. Oh any whatever. I'm just saying. But see, I'm telling you that they need to be trained.

57:17 They need to see a right church, they need to see the right kind of preacher. And I'm telling you, I hate it sometimes when young men have to say, well, this is what I learned from my church. I learn how not to do things. And that's the way it was for me in the beginning. And I know other men like that. But you know, what guys are looking for how things should be. People in training are not looking for things how it shouldn't be. They're looking for things how it should be. And then I'll go ahead and do my speech tonight. Not only do we have the opportunity of our men who have gone out of our church and trained for the ministry, but we're also involved in Heartland and we have four hundred and eighty I think that that are there. We've got some of kids out of our church, some young people out of our church that are there right now.

58:06 And what are they doing. They are training one way or another for the ministry. And just like my daughter did not go to Heartland to be a preacher, but she learned some things that she could use in a church setting when she came back home. Somebody say, Amen, and we have to be I want to remind us at this point that we have the opportunity to support over four hundred and fifty young people's servants are in the school of the profits of the ministry, and I'm telling you they need to see God work in their life at Heartland, just like our young people need to see God work in their life. And that's why we go to camp, and. That's why we have vacation of Bible School, and that's why we go to youth cod why because God wants to work in their life, but they need to see it right here every week. And here's a young man that's training for the ministry and he wants to be involved in the work and he goes and borrows the axe head because he don't have one. Speaking of that, do you still have that saw that you cut your trees down with? I told my wife I hate to do it from the pullbit, but can I borrow that thing sometime?

59:20 Because I don't have one? Brother? All right? Can I borrow your axe head? I want? And Yoka will show me how to use it. Do you know we might as well just cut out the middle man. How about Yoka shows Robin how to use it? You come over to my house and I don't think that's a good example. All right, let's don't do that. You know what, Elisha had a great investment in the profits that were in training. Remember when the woman came to him and said, you know, my husband, he was a good man and he was serving in the school of the Prophets, and now he's dead, and you know what? And God said, what hast thou?

1:00:00 What do you want me to do? And what has now in the house. And if you'll remember when I. Preached that, the whole idea was that Elisha says to God, how can we show this woman God? How can you use me to show this woman that God is real? And I guarantee you that woman served God. I would have to assume all the days of her life because of what God did in her life. Now in the same way, in the same way, this young man is going to see an iron axe head swim and he's never going to forget it. I go back to my own life and going through college and going through different things, and watching God work in the life of our family for different things. God showed us at the right time, use different people. It's just I mean, and many of those people are in this room tonight.

1:00:58 Now, Hey, maybe going you know, way into this application part. But at least he's not He's not coming saying the axe represents this, or the axe head represents that, or he's not doing any of that. He's like an actual axhead actually fell in the water and actually was made to float. And so here are some lessons we can learn from it. Right, So now, I don't know if he's gonna deviate at any point we're already at an hour. So so this one is much better. This one is called a lost Axehead Jeffrey A b l E. S What is that? Able? Ablest able ablest. I don't know how you say his last name? Ables? I don't know, So you can you can look it up A lost axehead Jeffrey A b l E s Uh, And you can. You can finish the rest. We'll listen to just a little bit more and try to come to a stopping point. But at least it's somewhat refreshing.

1:01:50 This is like a but just note, this is a million times different than what we just heard. We've we've heard two pastors approach this text, not even in the same universe, clearly not following the same hermoneutical principles, radically different conclusions, but one text and the people in the pew are supposed to know what to do with the text. How if pastors can't even agree on the text. That God used in our life to show us that He's in control. And Elisha had a great investment in those prophets, and I want to thank you as individuals in this church, and you know who you are that has made investments in the young men who have gone through our church and were still going through it, and you're investing in them so that they can do the work of the ministry. And you know what they need to see. They need to see an axe head swim.

1:02:49 And if God can use a swimming axe head to show his power, then that's okay for me, it's okay for Elisha, and it's okay for the profit in training. God wants us all to understand he can do things nobody else can do. The greatest and the sweetest of all prairie quest are those that you take into the closet by yourself, and you beg God, and you seek, and you ask, and you knock and youbody. Nobody else knows anything about it except you and God. And then all of a sudden, God, God uses somebody, or God uses some circumstances to answer your prayer.

1:03:31 And God is so good. And he said to a life show mister, it's a borrowed axe head. I'm gonna be in dead meat because I borrowed it from a Jew. I'm not being I'm just saying I borrowed it from somebody. I borrowed it from a Jew. Okay, not I don't. Okay, all right, well we'll just go past what Okay, all right, everything was going so good. We're gonna wrap this up before he gets bad because I don't know what what was? Are you borrowing from some kind of Jewish stereo type?

1:04:17 Here? Like? What was that? Don't belong to me? Where did it fall? Right there? And the iron. Did swim and he took it up, and he put it in his hand and he took it. And I won't say it again that young people today need to see and experience the hand of God in their own life. They need to see that God is concerned not only about the big things but the little things. Okay, Other than that weird comment, I'm dead meat because I borrowed it from a jew. Okay, we won't even I don't even.

1:05:01 Know what that was. But everything else here has been at least based off the text, observational and then application I think has been fair and consistent with the text, much better than what we have heard. Again, this is called a lost axe head Jeffrey, last name A. B. L. E. S. You can find it on the sermon's two point Oh app there's only maybe I don't know, ten minutes left in it, fifteen minutes left in it, you can go listen to the rest and that at least that I mean, I still don't understand that comment, but okay, we can at least leave it there and be like, okay, this is This at least shows you the contrast of handling the text more based on the actual text. Yet you can still do application and it remains somewhat fairly consistent with it.

1:05:53 Or you may say the application may have went a little too far, a little too much, maybe you know, but yeah, and maybe the reason he's going more application is because there's what I mean. Unless you just start allegorizing and spiritualizing the text, you just basically have a story of. The axe Head. You know, I'm saying, like you know, you unless you start making everything mean something, it's pretty straightforward. So you spend more time with the application, you could see why. All right, we'll stop right there. Hopefully that kind of brings our discussion of the Act Sad to some kind of conclusion, and we will see we still got other I mean, we got other things to do. We'll work on. I don't know how much I'm going to be able to do tomorrow, but if we get a chance, we'll move to who knows where we'll end up tomorrow. We'll find out then in the meantime, Second Kings chapter six versus one through seven. And I think the other passage I've had everyone working on this week and looking up sermons is, yeah, Second King's chapter fifteen, Azarayah, Zechariah, Shalom and Menehem and Pekanayah. Yeah, those are kings and you're supposed to be looking up sermons on that, and that all came from that message that we did on he felt the King that fell a little bit. So yeah, so it's been kind of a Second King's kind of weeks, kind of what it's turned into. So Second King six one through seven, Second Kings fifteen, And for the sermons two point oh op challenge, you just start choosing some

1:07:24 random sermons on that and well see what you find. Thanks for listening everyone, have a great evening. God bless