Modernism and Formalism

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Tuesday, July the second, twenty twenty four. It is currently ten forty four am Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, if you've been paying any attention, you know that all this week and all of next week is dedicated to you listening to the live webcast on the Sermon's two point oh app and at Beta dot Sermonadio dot com or the Sermonadio dot com website. But the Beta side is the site you should be using Beta dot Sermonadio dot com or the Sermon's two point oh app. It's all about you tuning in and listening to the live webcast. Well, if you notice right now on those apps, I'm the only one broadcasting. There's no live webcast. The one before mine was a funeral. There is nothing happening right now, but in about fifteen minutes, and about fifteen minutes there will be the Daily Prayer webcast. Right the Daily Prayer webcast, I believe it starts right at eleven am. Central Time.

1:17 They always start with a devotional and then they go into prayer. Happens every day. I think right at eleven eleven, did I say eleven pm eleven am Central Time? And so you definitely want to tune in, So I'm going to try to. I just wanted to go live for just a few minutes leading up to that one to tell everyone to go listen to that one, to remind everyone of the of the challenge for the next two weeks. I think I could be wrong, but because we're fast approaching the fourth of July, and remember, I'm already concerned that a lot of the webcasts are going to be filled with patriotism and politics, and we've already seen a little bit of that. We've already seen a little bit of that. I think it's only going to get work. But I'm also noticing, at least it feels to me that the number of webcasts are way way way down. Being kind of a holiday week. I think, I think there's just not going to be a lot of webcasts. So we will see. So maybe I picked the wrong week to do this, Maybe we'll have to extend it out another week. But at the same time, it may give you a break, right, if you're not listening to anything else, you're only going to listen to live webcast, well, then you kind of get you know you maybe maybe you just maybe maybe you're going to be busy this week, so maybe it will work out. But please keep the sermons two point oh app you know, handy, and make sure you're checking. I know, look I have. I have begged and begged and pleaded with them. Get notifications set up for the sermons two point oh app so that because I want to

2:47 be notified anytime someone goes live anytime, and so currently you have to be checking. So be checking. But for now, between now and the again, the Top of the Out or the Daily Prayer webcast should be going live, so you can definitely switch to that. But for now, what I want to do is focus on just simply taking a few minutes to familiarize yourself with two very important terms, two very important terms in church history, right, two very important terms. In fact, I probably know more about the first one than the second one, but I want to bring them to your attention, and then maybe later when there aren't any other webcasts going on, then maybe I will come back. And then we'll do. Maybe this will turn into a mini series. We will see the first one I've talked about so many times. But here's what happens. So, as many of you know I've been I have a series currently that we're talking and discussing revival based off one of the latest issues of the sort of the Lord newspaper right now.

3:47 We started it and the article became very frustrating, taking verses out of context, misapplied. But okay, all right. So I was like, I was sitting here thinking, well, maybe I turn on the microphone and we do a little bit more work, you know, in that series. But then I'm like, wait, what is this? So on page eighteen and this issue of the Sword of Lord newspaper, it is the section called Questions and Questions Answered Doctor Shelton Smith, and the question is what is modernism, worldliness and formalism? And I'm like, ohoh, three very important terms, modernism, worldliness, and formalism. All three of them could really become a series. We could do an entire series on modernism, entire series on worldliness, and an entire series on formalism. And we have some interesting discussions, I think, but I wanted to just take a few minutes between while there's no live webcast going on, before the next one starts. Wish up.

4:47 I believe it's at the top of the hour. I want to make sure that you are very familiar and know what modernism is and formalism is. We'll get to worldliness at another broadcast. Are you ready? So I'm gonna just read how it's written here the sort of the Lord Newspaper. Are you ready? Here we go. Every once in a while I get questioned, I will get a question about our position as stated on the mash head of the newspaper, modernism masthead of the newspaper. If I can read correctly, modernism, worldliness, and formalism, Doctor Rice listed those matters on the front of the sword many years ago in order to help define exactly what the sword was about. Now, if I remember correctly, I'm going to look at the front of the paper. Yeah, yeah, right here. If I look at the front of the paper, what they call the masthead. If I look at there in front of it, it says the sword of the Lord Newspaper, an independent Christian publication standing for the verbal inspiration of the Bible, the deity of Christ, his Blood, Atonement, salvation by faith, New Testament, so winning and the premillennial return of Christ. Opposing modernism, worldliness and formalism. It's right there at the front of the paper. Three and those terms are very very important for you to understand, all right.

6:11 So so he gets questions sometimes and they get letters at the sord of the Lord. Hey, what about these three things? He goes on to say, each of these three words describes certain things which we feel are unbiblical. So they feel modernism, formalism, and worldliness are all unbiblical. Okay, I think we should all be able to say amen to that. We should all be able to say amen to that. So let's start with the first one. Let's go with modernism, right, Let's at least try to offer a basic understanding of this term. More importantly, when you think of the term modernism, you actually need to think of about a controversy that happened in the nineteen hundreds, which is very instrumental to understanding modern day church history.

6:57 Are you ready? Here we go? Modernism a term that was coined back in the early part of the last century to describe what we now call liberalism. Now, I'm just gonna be honest with you. I don't like the term liberalism used in theology, right, because when we hear the term liberalism now, it almost carries a political connotation. So I don't think churches. When churches say we are opposed to liberalism, almost inevitably they're referring to political liberalism. When so I don't like using the term in theilological language, right. I don't like it because it doesn't carry theological liberalism. It carries the idea of political liberalism. And then when many Christians say we are a conservative church, and in some cases, I don't think it really reflects a theilological conservativism. It reflects a political one. And that's the political infiltration in the political corruption of the American church. It's even corrupted our language. Right, So I don't like the term liberalism. Modernism holds a very specific meaning in the history of philological disputes. So I know now we call it liberalism, but I think we should just use the term modernism because or you have to say philological liberalism, right, because I don't want to be I don't I don't want to be known as being politically conservative. I don't want to be I want to be known as being philologically conservative. I want to be understood

8:28 from a philological perspective, not a political or cultural perspective. Right, so let's continue. Modernism was a term that was coined back in the early part of the last century to describe what we would now call liberalism. The Modernist fundamentalist controversy of the nineteen ten to nineteen thirty era was a full orbed clash between Bible believers and those who want to and to diminish the Bible and favor of their own agenda. Now, that's what I really want you to know. The Modernist Fundamentalist controversy nineteen ten to nineteen thirty. That controversy every Christian should know it, every Christian should be an expert. And the modernist fundamentalist controversy between nineteen ten and nineteen thirty. Now, if you've listened to our series on the Niagara Creed, right, the Niagara Bible Creed. That very much coming out of that controversy, very much. The Niagara, the Niagara Creed, the Niagara Bible Conference, that four volume set of books called The Fundamentals, all of that comes right out of this controversy. And I have told I have begged Christians if you listen to my preaching, those four books, the Fundamentals, They're literally on a table behind my pulpit. They have been there now for years, and I constantly I will reference them and preaching

10:01 and tell people you need to read these books. You need to read these books. You need to read these books. You need those books still are sitting on the table because no one ever takes them to read them. I cannot. I don't know what to do to get people to read them. Now when people read them, they're kind of like, well, this is kind of, you know, kind of I don't know. I don't know what people are expecting when they read. When they do read them, but I think they're somewhat disappointed in the way, but they're very just dealing with the issues that were so fundamental at that time in this controversy between the modernists and fundamentalist, between the modernist and fundamentalist. All right, so that controversy, you need to know that controversy nineteen ten and nineteen thirty. You need to know about the niagraa Bible conference, You need to know about the niagraa Bible creed. You need to know those things and you need to know those four volumes fund the fundamental the Fundamentals, because they so define that era, and you can kind of see out of that controversy. You can kind of see the different streams of Christianity. And just think nineteen ten to nineteen thirty, there was a lot going on theologically. The nineteen hundred, the nineteen hundreds, moving forward, you really have the birth of the modern day charismatic movement. You have the birth of one is Pentecostalism, all of that happening right there in nineteen hundred, and then you have the modernists and the fundamentalist controversy, which is going to break off into different camps. Right. You're going to have the fundamentalists, You're going to have what's kind of kind of become the modern evangelicals. You're going to have the philological what we'll call liberals

11:37 or the philological modernists. You're going to have the charismatics. It's a crazy time in church history. I know we like to go way back into church history, but to really kind of understand our present situation, I think that that nineteen hundred, like nineteen hundred to nineteen thirty, nineteen hundred to nineteen fifty that those fifty I see fifty years nineteen hundred to nineteen fifty. You have some crazy stuff going on theologically, which I think kind of determines and kind of kind of well, everything breaks off into different streams, so I think you have to know that, all right. So you have the modernist fundamentalist controversy of nineteen ten to nineteen thirty era. It was a full orbed class between Bible believers and those who wanted to diminish the Bible in favor of their own agenda, whether you use the term modernism or liberalism. Doctor Rice and the sort of the Lord Newspaper opposed it then, and they oppose it now, and they do oppose it now. Sometimes I think they go a little bit more when they're opposing political liberalism than versus theological liberalism. And sometimes they put forth a political conservativism and versus a theological one, and those are different. But please, you have to if you don't know the this controversy, I would love for you to let me know what you know about it or don't know about it, because then we can we can work on it.

13:05 I've got I've got pages of notes. I can start talking about it. Right now, I can start, I can start breaking down the controversy right now. The modern for example, I'm just looking at my notes. The modernist fundamentalist controversy was a philological dispute that took place in the early twentieth century with an American Protestant Christianity, particularly in the United States. Here and then here is a summarized outline of the key points of the controversy. I'm not gonna let I'm not gonna tell you now. I'm not gonna tell you now about it. But that's modernism, right, So let me read that again. Modernism was a term that was coined back in the early part of the last century to describe what we would now call liberalism. I hate the term liberalism. Let's say this, modernism describes a philological liberalism that would deny the fundamentals of the faith. Okay, this is they're denying the fun fundamentals of the faith, philological fundamentals. I know. Somehow modernism and fundamentalism turns into an argument about music and hair and dress. No, it's about the fundamentals of the faith, the inerrancy of Scripture, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the deity of Christ. Right, Like those very fundamental issues. The dating of some of the books of the Bible. Are they actually prophetic or were they written after the fact, and so they're not really prophecy. Who wrote the books? Like the very important philological issues. Right, So that's what modernism is. Think of it. Philological liberalism are just think modernism a

14:37 philological approach that attacks and denies the fundamentals of the faith, leads leading to a great questioning, skepticism and denial of historical biblical Christianity. Now, what's formalism? So there's there's modernism. What is formalism? Formalism is a term that has been coined to describe what happens in a dead ritualistic type of church. When we go to church on Sunday, we believe that there ought to be evidence of the delight of the Lord, and that the Spirit of God has given direction to the service. It has been the practice among dead liberal churches to so thoroughly program everything that one has to check the bulletin to see whether to stand or sit, or what is coming next. Some churches go to great extremes on that, and as a result, the light of life go out of it. We are, of course opposed to that formalism.

15:33 Now, we could argue that every church has some level of formalism, because every church has kind of an order of the way you do things, and after a while you get used to it. We're going to stand on this song, we're going to greet after this, we're going to take the offering here, we're going to do this, We're going to do this. Every church has it to some level. So now, now what some people refer to is formalism that's dead or lifeless or cold. What they're really attacking is liturgical churches. So I don't know if we should should we be opposed to formalism because I know, even even the fundamentalist churches, there's a formalism. This is the way you do this is how you do things. Okay, we're gonna stand on this, we're gonna sit here, we're gonna shake hands.

16:14 Ever, I mean, you're following the same order, and there's rarely ever any change or disruption to that. So to me, it was more the charismatic world that criticized the formalism. That was more to me, the charismatic world kind of like, no, we need the spirit leading things and then it leads to just total anarchy and chaos. And God is not the order that God is not the god of chaos, is the God of order, so he brings order out of chaos. He doesn't bring chaos to order. So I don't know about the formalism part. So you can you can, you can make your own determination about how much should we be opposed to that is that really an issue? And then but the modernism that's what I really want you to focus on. So I want you to know two terms today modernism. But when it comes to modernism, I want you to know the modernist fundamentalist controversy of the nineteen ten or from nineteen ten to nineteen thirty.

17:12 I think you could probably go a little bit further back, because I think the modernist kind of ideas higher criticism and those were already coming in from Europe prior to nineteen ten, at least I feel like they were. I would have to go look at the dates of books and things like that, you know, to be exact. But you need to know that modernist fundamentalist controversy and what and how, because I think I think what happens is you see the modernist movement. Do you see the modernist ideas coming in? And then I think in many cases within Protestant Christianity, there was a debate on how do you respond to these concepts? Do we fight? Do we separate ourselves? If seminaries are bringing in these modernist ideas, do you pull out of these seminaries? Do you then start your own Bible institute? If your denomination is being infiltrated by modernism, do you remove yourself from the from the denomination and start independent churches? Well that's where the whole independent fundamentalist kind of idea kind of emerges. Forget the seminaries, We'll have Bible institutes and our local churches. Forget being a part of a denomination, We'll have independent churches.

18:21 Because they were fighting it, others were like no, no, no, no, no, no no, we'll stay within the denomination and try to fight it. We won't. We We're going to continue to send people to the seminary. We're going to try to change it from within. And the fundamentalist arguments like no, set we come out from among them and be ye separate, We're not going to deal with it. And then that leads to from the modernists fundamentalists dispute, and then you break into streams Christianity where you have more of the evangelical mindset, not so much fighting trying to find ways. Listen, what do we have in common, more ecumenical, let's work together, Let's still support the denominational struture. Let's continue to support the seminaries. And then the fundamentalists were like, no independent churches, Bible institutes, forget the whole seminary, forget the denominational structure. So you have that split. So then in a roundabout way, you end up with the modernist or the or you know again, theilological liberalism, the fundamentalist, and then you have the evangelicals. Now within the fundamentalist movement, what I think you have is you have those who broke away for philological reasons to fight for the fundamentals of the faith. And in many cases within fundamentalism, it deteriorated and it kind of fell apart into a very legalistic like now we're going to argue about music and hair and should a pastor wear a tire or not wear a tie and just all of these It just started turning into that kind of stuff, right, and then you oh, and then I think there was a

19:52 lot. I hate to say it. I know they will deny it, but I think in many cases some of the charismatic ideas creep into fundamentalism. They would never not saying like speaking in tongues, but some of the ideas of God speaking to us outside of the Bible and some of that, and some of their ideas about the Holy Spirit, to me seems more influent, being more influenced by early charismatic concepts than they were about from historical biblical Christianity. So you kind of have but really what you kind of end up if you think about coming in the nineteen hundreds moving forward, you have the philological modernism or theological liberalism, you have the fundamentalist, you have the evangelicals, and then you have the charismatics, and then fundamentalism, of course deteriorates into just ridiculousness in many cases, just fighting over anything. And it's like they were gonna they since they started by separating from others, they just kept separating.

20:48 They just kept we're gonna separate, We're gonna separate. No, no, no, We're we're against this, We're against this, We're against and they just kept more and more and more and more and more, and you're kind of like, what is happening here? So I think that's a critical time in church history. So the formalism, I don't know. I mean, don't you. I would just challenge you to consider it this way. When it comes to formalism, I think unless you're just full blown charismatic, I think you all believe. I think we all believe that there has to be some level of formalism, some level of level of order and structure or church services to send into utter anarchy. So then so if you are more formal with a very definitive liturgy, when when that because when they criticize, well, they have to have a bulletin to know when to stand up or sit down. Hey, even in fundamentalist churches, people can't just stand up at any time, right that people would be like what are you doing?

21:48 People can't just start clapping and raising their head. No, no, there's going to be like no, no, no, we don't do that. So so they have their own rules. So I don't know about the formalism. I don't know. I didn't like their definition of formalism. I don't know. I think there's there's a level of it. If you go to a liturgical basis, does does that mean dead? Does that mean lifeless? Does formalism is? Formal? Is formalism the enemy of life and passion and zeal? Because I think in many like charismatic churches, they would be known for their passion and zeal and their lack of formalism. But does all that suppose that passion and zel really mean life? Because sometimes it just seems like people are just doing what's expected of them, just like people do what's expected in a liturgy. People do what's expected if they're supposed to raise their hand yell shout. I know people I've worked with plenty of charismatics. They were no more spiritual than anybody else, So they all that outward sign of supposed life did not necessarily translate to anything. And I've known people who go to quote unquote dead cold formalism who seem very godly and very committed and very dedicated to God. And there are so I don't think you can. I don't like the I don't like the criticism of formalism. I'm I don't like that the sort of the Lord may be opposed to it, but I guarantee you

23:19 they expect some level of formalism even in their own churches. So I don't know about the modernism that I'm fascinated by how it led to kind of the modern day Christianity. I think what we have in modern day Christianity really maybe I'm overstating the historical significance, but I think it's usually understated. I think modern Christianity can be literally traced back to the modernist fundamentalist dispute and then how it breaks off into into streams now. I think the only thing that would be missing if you want to understand modern day Christianity is the emergence and really the origins of modern day charismatic charismatic movement starting in the nineteen hundreds. I think that there's there's there's modern day Christianity. You can pick your stream, you can, and if you kind of look at it, fundamentalism is clearly lost a lot of its power and influence. I mean, I don't think there's any way to get around that. It's had it, It had its heyday, and it seems to be very much nowhere close to what it was.

24:29 That's my own feelings. You may disagree, but I believe that's my own feelings. The evangelical modern Church seems to still kind of be somewhat dominant. We had the now we could talk about the research, the resurgence of reform theology. There was that time where the young, restless and reformed movement happened. But I think that's kind of fallen up. It'd be hard to kind of to see where we are. We have kind of the I think we have the we have the I don't know if you've ever been in an area where there, you know, there's a creek or a river and it's kind of dried up. It doesn't look like it used to used to be flowing, you know, powerful rapids, and now you're kind of like, well, what has happened? I think now we see a lot of these streams of Christianity that are just kind of they look kind of dried up rivers.

25:15 They're still there, they're still moving, but it's just what it doesn't look the same. And I think that's kind of like where are we now? Like what is emerging now? I think now we're emerging again. We definitely have the political philological hybrid that's a mutated version of something Okay, we definitely have that. We still have obviously the more evangelical, ecumenical, you know, you know, go along to get along, peaceful loving, not so much wanting to fight. I think a lot of people are just I don't. I just think more people today are more political than they are theological.

25:59 So we get trying to figure out where that that river kind of branches off. I think I think that the politically corrupted churches. I focus on the on the ones on the right, on the conservative churches, because the reason I focus on them is because the conservative churches usually have a somewhat sound doctrinal statement, right, So you get very upset when you have a church that has a sound doctrinal statement but becomes corrupted by politics, and then they they they they create this mutated monster. The liberal churches that become infiltrated by politics, they're they are they are liberal theologically, so they've already denied the fundamentals of the faith. So I don't really care if they get corrupted by politics. In fact, I would expect them to get corrupted by politics, because they've denied the fundamentals of the faith. They've got to have something else to replace that. Because they've denied the fundamental of the faith. Politics would be a good answer. Social causes would make sense. They've already denied the actual fundamentals of the faith. It's the conservative churches who say they haven't denied the fundamentals of the faith who then get corrupted by politics that makes no sense.

27:08 They're throwing away their treasure for the trash of politics that makes no sense. So those are the two terms modernism formalism. Now, the whole goal here was just to wait until let me look here and look here in the sermon's two point. Oh, app I was simply because of our challenge. Hang on, let me look here. Oh, it's just us, all right. I thought the daily prayer thing started at the top of the hour. I could be wrong, all right, or United Prayer, I call it daily prayer. I thought that their podcast, their webcast started at the top of the hour. Maybe it starts at twelve, all right? So yeah, yeah, I want to do it. I want to go right to my notes. I want to go write to my notes and talk about the modernists fundamentalist debate. But I think I've given you at least a good idea. But remember the goal this week for the next two weeks for the sermons two point oh app sermon challenge is you're supposed to be listening to to random webcast when you're coming out of taking note, just like we do with the sermons. The random sermons, you write down the name of the message, the name of the broadcaster, and then a one sentence. Well if you can do it in one sentence, just write out a short summary of what the webcast was about. Okay, the key is to listen to the live ones. So what I wanted to do I saw there was nothing live.

28:34 I wanted to come on and kind of fill in the gap before what I thought was supposed to happen at eleven, and that was the United Prayer one. But I'm not seeing it, so maybe it starts. I saw a countdown clock. I saw a countdown clock, and I thought it was supposed to start, So maybe I'm missing something. I may be confused, but I wanted to just kind of be the in between so that I could promote it. But there we go. All right, So are you familiar with the modernist fundamentalist controversy? Are you the modernism the modernist? Are you? Are you familiar with that and are you in formalism again? I I don't know about the formal I don't know about complaining about formalism. I just don't know the modernist one. Now that guess the issue is is is the issues of modernism? Are Are they the issues in twenty twenty four? I mean, it feels to me, this is my own feelings that I feel like that there's been a dramatic change. I felt that at one time the church was very much involved in philological disputes. Right, there was all these theological disputes happening within christiandom, right, all of these five right over, like things like the purpose driven church and seeker sensitive churches versus churches that fought

30:06 against that kind of understanding of the church and how the church should be developed and growing, the major fights between Calvinism and non Calvinism. There was, like I felt, there was all these theological disputes, right that what Intie writes new perspective on Paul and fighting over issues related to justification, sanctification, lots of just major philological disputes, right, maybe the resurgence of all millennialism being fought against premillennial There was like philological theilological, theilological, theilological, philological, philological, theological, theological, and somewhere, I feel like the theological has been so minimized, and the church now is more fighting cultural issues and political issues and going after quote unquote how many sermons have to mention woke, woke, woke, woke, woke. They're fighting the culture, and I think the concept of the the theological has been abandoned. That's my own feelings.

31:08 The church seems so has so just like chased the dragon of a cultural war, like they're in fighting the dragon of the culture, and I just I just don't know. And I think that if you look around at the church, the church is more theologically illiterate, biblically illiterate, and theologically confused than it's ever been. That's that, that's I mean, that's just my you know, on the spot feeling. So some ways, I wish we could go back to the modernist fundamentalist fights, okay, because those were biblical, those were theological. Those are those like, you know, all right, well, here's the word of God. What does it say, not fighting over I don't know. It seems like I don't know. Somewhere, I feel like we've lost the plot. That's my own personal feelings. I know many of you will strongly disagree, and that's okay. All right, So today, modernism, formalism, these are the things that sort of the Lord newspaper fight against. What do you think about these terms? Do you agree? Disagree? I would love to get any of your thoughts. You can email them to me. News. If it Yahoo dot com, that's news. If it Yahoo dot com. I hope I made the right decision.

32:37 Like I, I thought this is going to be like fifteen minutes, and as soon as I saw the other webcast go live, I'd be like, all right, everyone that go watch that one because that's what we're doing this this week and the next two weeks. But since I didn't start, now I feel like, well, maybe I should have just went all in on what I was going to do. But that's okay, you know what it's it's good sometimes to lead people wanting more than giving them too much. I know, typically my broadcasts go so long that people want me to shut up. So in this case, maybe maybe, just maybe, Oh I wanted you to keep talking about modernism and the fundamentalist controversy. Oh I'm interested. I don't know if anyone to be actually interested in that historical situation.

33:17 I think every Christian should know it. All right, there you have it, Thanks for listening. We'll obviously be back at some point today and we will see if we can talk about these things. All right. If you have any interest in the modernist fundamentalist controversy, look up the Niagara Creed, all right, or you can go look up our series on the Niagara Creed, because that creed is very instrumental, right, arises out of the modernist fundamentalist dispute, fight dispute and debate and controversy. And then look up the four I think four volume set the Fundamentals. What I'll do is I'll look for a link. This is what I'll do. I'll look for a link to the Fundamentals. I can probably find it on Amazon for relatively cheap, and I will send you a link so you can only see the books.

34:07 You can may be able to find the books online for free. I'll send a link via the Church one app. So if you download the Church one app churchne make sure your notification is on. You'll get a notification with a link to those books. And you should greatly invest your time because when you go back and kind of look at it, it gives you an idea of what was happening. And when we know the past, we bet we have a better job of interpreting the present and we are more equipped to possibly see where we're headed in the future. Thanks for listening everyone, have a great day. God bless