Metaphor vs Literal? Pt 2

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, Making Theology Central. Can someone explain to me how a passage in the Book of Proverbs that uses a certain phrase a numerous times that phrases there is a generation. There is a generation. There is a generation. There is a generation. It uses that phrase multiple times, It repeats it over and over and over. How can a passage in Proverbs that uses the phrase there is a generation turn into a discussion about people eating people?

0:51 Can? Can someone explain that to me? How is it even possible? It was such a like, oh, this is a sermon on Proverbs, chapter verses eleven through seventeen. Okay, let me look at the passage. Let's see verse eleven, there is a generation. Verse twelve, there is a generation. Verse thirteen, there is a generation. Verse fourteen, there is a generation. There is a generation. There is a generation, this generation. I know what I'll do. I'll write out a multiple pages of notes on outlining this passage and looking at this phrase there is a generation because it's very close to the phrase that a lot of older people use, which will be this generation, this generation, and we can kind of talk about that all right, I think I'm ready to go. I've got all my notes. I've got this section outlined, I've got it broken down, I've done some exegetical work. I've got the entire history of one generation talking about another generation. I've got it all ready to go. All right, are we ready? Okay, welcome everyone.

1:54 We're gonna review a sermon that's on Proverbs, chapter thirty, verses eleven through seventeen. We're gonna make it all about there is a generation or this generation. This should be fun. Let's hit play. We hit play, and the next thing you know, we're talking about people eating people. Are you baffled? I'm baffled. And we're gonna talk about all of that. But first, I guess I should go ahead and give you a proper introduction. Good afternoon everyone. It is Friday. Yes, we're kicking off the weekend. We're gonna kick off the weekend with talking about people eating people right here on the Theology Central podcast. Good afternoon everyone. It is Friday, October eighteenth, twenty twenty four. It is currently one ten pm Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio. I was gonna say headquarters Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas, and right here in this studio, we've got to figure out it's Proverbs chapter thirty, verses eleven through seventeen. At least one of the verses in that section. Is it talking about literally people eating people or is it using some form of metaphorical language. I know this sounds crazy, because again, what the text would scream at me is there is a generation. Let's talk about that. I mean, it's only repeated what four times? Let's let but no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

3:27 were we can't go there, So we're gonna go back to the sermon. So just so that everyone's on the same paging, just in case you didn't hear the last message. Let me try to explain. One of the things I've been doing recently is, obviously for the entire year, I've been trying to challenge and encourage people each day to take the sermons two point oh app find a random sermon, listen to it, write down the name of the sermon, maybe write down the name of the church, and then just write out a summary of what the sermon was about. And the goal is by the end of the year you'll have one sermon for every single day of twenty twenty four. What a great challenge, What a great way to get people listening to sermons, right, And so that's what we've been trying to do. And one of the things I have done is to demonstrate everyone that I'm participating is I'm finding random sermons and then have been reviewing them. Now, in most cases, I was going into the reviews completely blind, right. I just chose the random sermon hit play and we listened to it together, and I had no idea where things were going. I had no no I had no notes ready to go. I just I just had to rely on just wherever it wherever it went. Now, in some cases it worked out pretty well, and other cases it went really really really really really really really bad because by the time the sermon was over, we would be like, I don't even know what that was about. I don't know if it even actually dealt with the text? What was that? And I had no I felt like in many cases I wasn't able to offer a lot of you know, interesting

5:00 or beneficial inside. So recently I started changing it up. I would like, choose the random sermon hit play, find out what passage it was about. Okay, then hit pause, then go do my own work, come up with all of my notes outline on the passage. That's where if the sermon just kind of just went off the track, left the road, I could then just revert back and just basically do a teaching on the passage that the sermon presented. In some cases, I would allow them to give me the scripture and give me their basic hypotheses on how they handled the scripture. Then we would listen to it, and then if I felt that their hypothesis was way off the mark, then I would come in and offer mine. So that's been kind of interesting. I think it's kind of mixing it up, changing it up a little bit. So today it was the same type of thing. Oh, here's a sermon. It's called Bible study. Oh, let's hit play. Oh it's on Proverbs chapter thirty. Oh, let me look at this section. There was a generation.

5:59 There is a generation. Okay, well, obviously anyone preaching on Proverbs thirty eleven through seventeen is going to be really working on that phrase. There is a generation. There is a generation. My prediction was at some point they were going to say in the sermon there is a generation, ladies and gentlemen. That generation is now, it's this generation. And so I was all ready to go. We were going to analyze it. We were ready to go. So we started it. We made it, I don't even know how far fifteen twenty minutes in and all of a sudden it turned into a discussion about people literally eating other people, that there's going to come a time when people are going to eat poor folk. They're going to eat poor people, And I'm like, what is happening right now?

6:47 So even though my mind was we're going to focus on there is a generation, it had to I had to pivot right in the middle of the broadcast and say, okay, we're going to talk about metaphorical language versus literal language. So I gave everyone kind of an assignment. I know, I didn't give you much time, all right, two, and I gave you some scriptures to look at, and I'm like, okay, what are the rules that determines if language is metaphorical and what are the rules to determine if language is literal? And who gets to determine which is which? So what we're going to do is I had to get back to this, right. I mean, now, one of the things that happened in the last episode is I had to kind of cut it short because the next thing, you know, my food had arrived way earlier than I anticipated, so I had to in the broadcast and run downstairs to get my food or you know. Yeah, So that kind of messed everything up, which I but at the same time, it kind of ended in a perfect way, right because we ended with the question basically, metaphorical language or literal language, what are the rules? And I told you to gather around the dinner table and have a discussion about so do these passages teach that people are going to literally eat people or not? Right? Okay, so I and I apologize for offending anyone, but I mean, the Bible is the one that's leading to this discussion. But I knew I had to come back. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go back to the sermon that we were listening to. We're gonna let him once again put forth his hypotheses that he believes that it's at least possible.

8:19 In fact, he kind of seems to argue that it's more probable that these passages see need to be interpreted literally, not metaphorically. Then what we're going to do is we're gonna step back, and we're gonna look at this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna look at the rules, the hermeneutical rules to determine if language is metaphorical or literal. Right, So we're gonna do that. Then we're gonna go through a number of the passages he cites in this section of the sermon, which he interprets as being literal, and then we're gonna apply those rules to those passages to see if the rules would lead us to determine that they're metaphorical or literal. Are you ready for this? I mean, this is just crazy stuff. I never in a million years, when I got to Proverbs thirty eleven through seventeen, would have ever I mean again, the phrase it's repeated verse eleven.

9:12 There is a generation. Verse twelve, There is a generation. Verse thirteen, There is a generation, verse fourteen, there is a generation. I would have never just ignored the repeated phrase to get to they're eating people like I don't even know now. And now, let me be very let me be very fair, let me be very clear here I'm not criticizing the pastor who goes for this pastor that we're listening to make the argument that this is literal. This is just demonstrates how crazy hermeneutics can be within Christianity. You got someone looking at the same passage of scripture that I'm looking at, and their mind is this could be literal, and my mind is, it's obvious it's metaphorical. Right, So, oh, it's just different approaches to scripture. Who is right? Well, obviously both can't be right. So are there any rules.

10:07 I'm not implying that there's that this pastor is doing anything evil or you know, there's nothing you know wrong about it. It's just his approach to scripture. I may not quite understand it. I'm a little baffled and taken by by it, but I'm not making any accusation. He put forth his hypotheses. Now what we're going to do is listen to him present it one more time, and then we're gonna we're gonna, well, we're gonna go all in with a hermoneutical study. So just imagine that it's Friday, the weekend is almost here, and you got one more class today and you walk into class and you're in hermonutics class, and I look at everyone, like, all right, today before the weekend kicks off in Hermonutics one oh one, Today we're going to talk about eating people or not really eating people, which is it eating the people or not eating the people or metaphorical? And then that will be your last class. And then the bell will ring and you can say it's Friday, and you can run off and have your weekend, or you could run off and go, guys meet in the day room. We got to talk about this. Hey, is this literal or metaphorical? No, nobody's gonna go there. You're going to go have a good weekend. I understand. But so before the weekend begins, one more class. Are you ready? It's Hermaudics one oh one.

11:28 Here we go. Here was the sermon that kicked all of this off. I thought it was going to be a discussion about there is a generation. I guess what this has turned into. There is a generation that will eat literally eat poor people. That is what this has turned into. Are you ready? Here we go? Now? I just backed this up a little bit. I don't I don't know if I've got everything, but I think we're I think we've got enough here to get us where we need to go. We just need him to basically establish his basic hypotheses and then we then we're off to the races. So here, how did we end up here? I'm telling you, see, listening to sermons much more fun.

12:11 It's more fun, it's more entertaining. It's what you've been looking for your whole life. You've been like, I keep looking for something to do. Just listen to sermons and then you'll have a discussion about literally people eating people. Like what is okay? All right? Here, here we go. And there's a generation there's full of pride. Verson from thirteen in that iteration, that's verse thirteen. Look at fourteen. I didn't quite understand that because verse thirteen is about pride. It's interesting that it's verse thirteen. Is thirteen associated with pride?

12:56 I'm not getting it. What's the significance of thirteen? Am I missing something here? Because everyone everyone in the congregation was like yeah, like every like, am I missing something here? I'm gonna add what. Or the. Okay, well, I'm gonna look it up and okay, what are the superstitions around the I know it's supposedly bad luck. Okay, Friday thirteenth. Many of you Friday thirteenth as an unlucky day. Okay, there's a fear of the number thirteen itself. Some people have an actual phobia. In Norse mythology, the the whoa, the see oh, the god Loki was the thirteenth kiss as a dinner party in Valhalla, leading to the death of the god Balder, which caused IDEs spread grief among gods.

14:01 Ancient romes, they believe the witches gathered in groups of twelve, and the thirteenth member of the group was the devil. And numerological beliefs, number twelve is often considered a complete number, so thirteen, being one number beyond completeness is seen as irregular and disconcerting Western weddings, some superstitious discouraged thirteen gifts at a dinner party, party, or wedding. I don't know what is thirteen? Is the number thirteen in the Bible associated with pride. Everybody in the church seemed to get it. Yeah, the number thirteen is not directly associated with pride in the Bible in a way that stands out as a recurring theme or symbol. While numbers like seven, twelve, and forty have more clear biblical significance. Thirteen doesn't carry the same consistent symbolic meaning. However, some interpret interpretations from biblical numerology claim that thirteen is connected to rebellion, lawlessness, oh, which can relate to pride. Oh okay, all right, I guess that's where it was coming from. I was like, where is the he says in that interesting, it's the thirteenth verse. Just remember first, the verses were not a part of the original. They were added later. So he's acting like the numbers are somehow he's seeing it interesting that that's verse thirteen and it's about pride. The verse, the chapters, the chapter verse division was not part of

15:32 the origin. They were added. What was it the I have to look at the I thought it was like it was late, it was much later. I don't have the year in front of me. I don't want to state it, but you can look it up. So, yeah, that's just weird. But all right, but that's not what we want to get to, right. Remember we're in Proverbs chapter thirty. I thought that this entire discussion would be about this generation, this generation, or there is a generation we found ourselves talking about now people eating people, and that's about to happen the next verse. Are you ready, Here we go. This is where things are going to get a little weird. Just hold on, buckle up. Here we go.

16:12 There's a generation whose teeth are as swords and their jaw teeth as knives. Well, what for to devour the poor from off the earth and the needy from among men? You could just read that and say, well, that's just metaphorically speaking, but there is coming a time on the earth when men will eat poor folks. Okay, He's like, you could just read this and say its metaphorical language, but there is a time. Now he speaks of it dogmatic. There is a time coming upon this earth. There is a time. So he's saying prophetically that people will eat eat poor folks. There's coming a time where people on this earth will eat poor folks.

17:14 He's saying it dogmatically. He's asserting it's a dogmatic certainty, which then calls into question should we read this as a metaphor? All right, now, well, letting he's going to develop this hypothesis. He's going to develop his theory by doing some cross referencing Okay, just write down all of these cross references. So Proverbs thirty fourteen, he says, Hey, you could read this as metaphorical language, but there is coming a time. He states it a dogmatic It's a dogmatic assertion that on this earth, men are going to people are going to eat poor folk. All right, again, I would have never and the last message, that's why you hear in my introduction, oh this generation. I had the whole discussion about this generation ready to go. Well, I had no idea that Proverbs thirty was going to turn into a discussion about people eating people. This is like, really, I've got we got to figure this out. So again, let's just keep going. I've already given you all the questions.

18:15 I mean, you're you're as ready as you can be for this. We just we had to bring this to some kind of conclusion. I mean, we cannot start our weekend until we figure this out, all right, So are you ready? Here we go. With their teeth and with their jawels, just like that. Proverb says, just a few places, look at Psalms fourteen. Psalms fourteen. Coming through the Book of Proverbs, all thirty one chapters, there is just all kind of prophetic stuff in there about the tribulation, the anti crash. You know how we ken't run across versus it says the wicked, the wicked, the wicked, and uh, I could have run off and talked to you all a bunch of stuff about the wicked being the devil the Antichrist.

19:18 Okay, So in Proverbs there's all kinds of prophetic passages, and when it says the wicked, the wicked, the wicked, he could have taught us that the wicked is the devil or the Antichrist. Now this, ladies and gentlemen, I don't even know what's happening right here. Okay. First of all, is how much prophecy is in the Book of Proverbs. I mean, it's a completely different it's a different, completely different literary genre. So I'm already like baffled. And so that the wicked and Proverbs, whenever you see that, that's referring to the devil or the and the Antichrist. So when it says the wicked, the wicked, that's the devil in the Antichrist. I mean, there's there are so many directions we can go even trying to follow this, but we're gonna we're gonna get to the eating of the people.

20:04 All right, so just oh man, I am trying to follow this or we're gonna get to the eating of the people. Let's see where this goes. And go after your adoptrinal truth there. I've been coming through here just trying to get a practical application that we can apply to ourselves. Okay, well, I guess we could do the same thing in Proverbs thirty fourteen and just get a practical application. But it's just pretty evident here the thing is literal. Look at sounds four. All right. Did you hear that it's pretty evident that it's literal. So he's not just now making he's just not throwing out kind of a hypothesis. He's making it much more dogmatic. He's being much more assertive that it's clear that it's literal. It's not metaphorical, it's literal. Now, the way he seems to ap approach this, his hermineutic seems to be, well, let's not look at the literary genre, let's not look at the context. His hermeneutical approach is let's just go from Proverbs thirty verse. I think he said verse fourteen. I mean, let's see, Well, let me go back to Proverbs here. I want to make sure I quote the right verse. Yeah, Proverbs thirty fourteen. His herminutic seems to be this, Proverbs thirty fourteen uses this kind of language. Now, let's go look at other passages that use the same kind of language, and now let's just make the assertion all of them are literal. That's not really proving that they're literal. He's just asserting that

21:37 they're literal. He's not offering, like, so, what are their hermeneutical principles that would lead him to determine that this language isn't metaphorical, that it's literal. What are the rules? What are the rules? Are their hermeneutical rules? See, that's the direction. His argument is, it uses this language. Let's look up other scriptures that use similar language, and now let's just assert that all of them are literal. But is that the way you do this? I don't. Let Let's just let's see where he's gonna go words. Psalm fourteen, right, the Book of Psalms, Psalm fourteen. All right, let let's see where he's going to go here. Fourteen When you put it with some other verses in the Bible. I'm just going to show you three and we'll move on Psalms fourteen four. Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge?

22:28 That's a good question. We're studying right now about add knowledgeingly. I guess without it, you become a worker of iniquity. And look what it says after that, who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord. So there are some people that don't call on the Lord. They are workers of iniquity. They don't have no knowledge, and they eat people just like they eat bread. So well, that's probably just metaphoric. I don't know. Look at Isaiah six.

23:12 Okay, so now there he seems not as conclusive, right, but he's already seemed to made a dogmatic assertion that these verses are talking about people eating people like he's saying it in a very literal way. Now he says, Isaiah six, Now this is the one. I think I missed the last one in our last message, because while I was, I knew at one I was running out of time, and two I was I was all discombobulated because I thought we were going to be talking about there is a generation, there is a generation. Because that's repeated four times in just a few verses, I'm like, okay, that's what we're going to be talking about. I would have never predicted that this is going to turn into a discussion about cannibalism and people eating people literal or metaphorical, but here we are. So now Danny says, go to Isaiah six again. I want you to see his hermonutical approach.

24:03 This is why sometimes when people make a comment when they talk about hermauticts, well you interpret scripture with scripture. Well that sounds so wonderful, but that just means people will just start cross referencing anything. Well, I've looked at this verse, I looked at this verse. I looked at this verse. I've got three verses. Boom, I've proven my point, and you just kind of want to look at them, like, what are you even talking about. That's not hermeneutics. Just grabbing random verses and connecting them together doesn't prove anything. That's what I sometimes refer to as death by cross reference. I mean, now he's looking up similar verses. I'm not saying we should not look up the similar verses, but his argument is if I five similar verses that use similar language, then I can just then argue that they're all to be interpreted literal and not metaphorical. Well, please note where we've gone so far. We've been in Proverbs, We've been in Psalms. Hmm, what literary genre is it?

25:01 And is that literary genre known for metaphor? Just Proverbs Psalms, those two books, what literary genre is that? And is it known for the use of metaphor? Now we're in Isaiah. What type of literary genre is Isaiah? Is it known from metaphor? I'm just asking the question, right, I mean, this is herma Eudics one oh one class, right, this is the last class before you start your weekend. Right, so you guys are in Hermautics class. You should already know this. You should be able to know all the literary genres and what are the characteristics of each literary genre. I mean, that's like basic one oh one. If you know Christians who can identify the literary genre of each book of the Bible and know the basic characteristics of each literary genre, they probably shouldn't be telling you they know what the Bible means, right, But let's see what Isaiah six. What is he going to do with Isaiah six?

25:58 Isiah six. In the Bible, when it says my people, who is that? That's Israel? Now again, my people? Does it always mean Israel? Now when you say my people in the Old Testament? I think we can say that it's reference to Israel if it says my people in the New Testament. Now does the New Testament use the phrase my people? All right? Lots of hermeneutical questions we would have here interpretive questions. But okay, So he's going to go to Isaiah six. Obviously, whichever verse he's going to find, I'm assuming it's going to use the phrase my people, and I'm assuming it's going to have something to do with people being eaten according to him. Where that's where he seems to be going.

26:48 Let's see where this goes. We're in Isaiah Six's let's see where he goes. Here, Isaiah six, third team. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return and shall be eaten as a teal tree and as an oak whose substance is in them when they cast their leaves. So the holy seed shall be the substance thereof that holy seed is Israel. That's a chi Visrael he's talking about.

27:30 He's talking about a tenth of those people returning, and it says they'll be eaten. I think about it. Says as this oak tree, whose substances in them when they cast their leaves. Right now the sap is going down, and when that sap goes down, the leaves fall off the trees. See, he says, the holy seed shall be the substance thereof. It's the substance of those tenth not there turned to.

28:11 Micah, so his argument in Isaiah six thirteen. But yet in it shall a tenth and it shall return and shall be eaten as as till tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them when they cast their leaves. So the holy seed shall be substance thereof. Now he's saying the eating, the eating there is an eating literally of a part of Israel. He's saying it's literal. But just look at the verse we got as a till tree. Is the till tree literal as an oak? Now there you're clearly that as an that's literally showing that there's a metaphorical language. There's some this is like this, So do we we will have to break this down more.

29:06 But just so, he goes to Isaiah six thirteen, and his argument is, Isaiah six thirteen, that's literal people being literally eaten. Psalm fourteen four that's people literally being eaten. And Proverbs thirty fourteen that's people literally being eaten. So he believes all of these passages. Now he's not proven why he's approaching it this way. He's just arguing, I've got cross references, and cross references prove my point, and my point is people are literally being eaten. He's not offering this is just so hard to follow. But we're gonna break this down. We'll keep I've got lots of notes here in Isaiah. The Isaiah passage would take us a long time to break down. I want to break it down now. Maybe we'll get to it. Maybe we'll have to do three, four five parts on this. I didn't want this to turn into a series, but here we are. I mean, this al was going to be like a little Hey, here's a message on Proverbs thirty eleven through seventeen. It talks abut out there is a generation.

30:02 Let's have that discussion, and it'd be almost like a devotional thing. I didn't know it was going to turn into a full blown hermeneutic on people eating people. But now now he's going to go to Micah. Now he's going to go to Micah. All right, he's going to go to Micah. So if you want to go ahead and turn to Micah, it's going to be chapter three. I believe it's like verses one through five. If I remember, yeah, Micah chapter three, I got it right here. Yeah, it's versus one one through four, Micah three, versus one four. That's where he's going to go. It's gonna take him a while to get there. I think he can't find it at first, which is perfectly okay not I mean, that can happen to anyone. But he's going to ultimately get there, and then he's going to go to Micah three, and once again he's going to make an argument that this is literally people eating people. Here we go.

30:45 Micah chapter number three. Then we'll go to Revelations. Daniel over died Jonah, Michaeh by a way, Michaeh three one, And I said, here, I pray you, old heads of Jacob and ye princes of the House of Israel. Is it not for you to know judgment, who hate the good and love the evil, who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones, who also eat the flesh of my people and flay their skin from off them, and they break their bones and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the cauldron. Then shall they cry to the Lord. But he will not hear them. He will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

32:05 Now just note, so after this happens, then they will cry onto the Lord. If you've been eaten, you can't cry unto the Lord. Now you could argue, well, the people crying to the to the Lord of the people left over, they are the people who didn't get eaten. Okay, I guess you could go there. But all right now he kind of laughs right there. Now he's getting ready to once again make an argument that this is not metaphorical, that this is literal. Here we go. You see all that stuff about eating people, Yeah, it's gross. So when he says there's a generation whose teeth are like swords, you know, and their jaw teeth is nice, and it's for diviirn poor people. There's coming a time on a generation on this earth. Okay, a time period in that Great Tribulation to where if you don't take the mark of the beast, you don't buy and sale, so you're automatically poor, you understand. And they turned into Revelation seventeen.

33:21 So his argument is that all these passages are pointing to a time coming the Great Tribulation where people are going to eat people. They're going to eat the poor folk. Now, even in the Proverbs thirty, if you're going to take the eating as literal, If you're going to take the eating as literal, just go back to Proverbs thirty. Proverbs thirty. Even if you're gonna take this as literal, look at what you would have. There is a generation whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives. See the knives that all of that. Clearly, their teeth are not going to be like not knives. It's a metaphor, they're not going to be swords. So clearly it's the text itself is showing you I'm using metaphorical language. But he so he would argue that that is metaphor. But the eating is literal, and that just becomes wow. Okay, So now we're in the Book of Revelation. I don't know which chapter he's going to go to yet. He may have said and I may have missed it. Hopefully he repeats it. I think we'll see. He's going to go to Revelation now with What he's going to argue is that all of these passages are prophecy, pointing to the fact that a generation is coming, which will be during the Great Tribulation. People are going to be poor because I don't take the mark, and these people are going to be eaten. Now, if the poor people are being eaten by someone else, who are the people eating the poor people? And if the other people aren't poor, why are they eating the poor people? Wouldn't be the argument that poor people are eating poor people. Let's see

34:53 how he breaks this down. There's gonna be a system set up over there in Jerusalem with the Antichrist in charge. He's gonna want people to take the mark of the Beast. And if they don't, and they're captured, and many will, many Jews will. We kept reading about my people. There's another place in the in Revelation where it says they's gonna die the death, and it's defined as decapitation, cutting their heads off. And I tell you what it looks like to me, it looks like they're drinking their blood and eating their bodies.

35:48 All right, So the people killing the poor are gonna chop off their heads, drink their blood, and eat their bodies. I don't want any Christians to ever say that, you know, Netflix movies are bad, Okay, that Harry Potter shouldn't be read. What in the world is happening here? So supposedly in the Book of Revelation, people's heads are gonna be chopped off, and they're gonna drink their blood and eat their bodies. And this is a fulfillment of the prophecy I guess and Proverbs thirty fourteen, Psalm fourteen, four Micah three went through five Isaiah six, whatever verse that was, and that all of these are saying that there's going to come a time where people are going to eat poor folk, and the people are going to be eating the poor folk, or the people who don't really need to eat the poor folk because they're not poor. They're just going to be doing it because I guess they're wicked, and they just want to eat human flesh. I guess that is that's where this is going. Let's see how this all.

36:47 Let's see how this all plays out here here we go. See it in Revelation seventeen six. And I saw the woman who's that, that's right Rome. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Remember how what is it? Matthew twenty four. He talks about the abomination of desolation is prophesied in Daniel in the Book of Daniel Daniel chapter number eleven and Daniel chapt number twelve. He says, he's going to take away the Antichrist is going to come in. He's going to take away the daily sacrifice in the temple, and they're going to place the abomination that maketh desola.

37:45 This is what it looks like is going to. Happen, all right, proverbs Our Matthew twenty four is dealing with what's going to happen leading up to seventy a d. So already we're already all over the place. Okay, throwing in Daniel passages, and now he's saying that this is what it's going to look like. So is he saying the abomination that leads to desolation is Rome eating actual people? Is that is that where this is going? Well, if you're gonna connect it to Matthew twenty four, then that would be what happened leading up to seventy eight. Y oh boy. Okay, all right, so we got to keep this straight. So let's see how he explains this and then we can then we can have kind of a hermeneutical discussion about this. All right, here we go.

38:26 They're gonna take humans, poor people instead of offering lambs and sheep and doves and cows on those altars like God told them to in the temple, They're gonna take Jews and martyrs for Jesus Christ in the tribulation period, and they're gonna chop off their head and as part of the worship service, they're gonna drink their blood. That's what you just read in Revelation seventeen, drunken with the bloody. Well, it's just figurative, that's just that's. Just the metaphor. Yeah maybe maybe.

39:07 Okay, Well, he goes back to maybe. Now he goes back to maybe. He got kind of very dogmatic earlier. Now he's kind of backing up a little bit to the maybe. So I don't know if it's definite. Now may at least at least he's offering the opportunity that it could possibly be metaphor. Now, the thing is, once you get into the discussion about literal or metaphor metaphorical, why would he not then go into the hermoneutical principles to demonstrate if it's metaphorical or literal? Because there are hermaeutical principles that address this subject that's been talked about for you know, throughout all of church history. Why would you not then pull in those principles, right? I mean, he's just throwing out the speculation. I guess that's okay.

39:47 But at some point, maybe maybe maybe the next week he offered up the issues. Well, we're gonna get into it. I'm gonna let him finish his point because I don't want it to be like I'm taking anything out of context here. And all those verses about eating the flesh and filaying them, and I told you last Sunday, since it's October about this holiday that's coming up. That is the Satanist holiday of the year. It just is. And I've read books about what they do to people on that day. Oh, for crying out loud, where's my Satanic Bible? Hang on, I'm looking here, Oh here it is? All right, Okay, I guess so tired of pastors I read about what they do to people who are the they are you referring to Satanists, like the Church of Satan what they do for people, because you clearly don't understand Satanism. And if you're gonna say it's the holiday for Satanists, let me go to the actual chapter. Man, hang on, let me find the actual chapter. Here it is. I always forget which chapter. It's page ninety six, page ninety six.

41:09 The chapters don't have numbers religious holidays, page ninety six Satanic Bible. Always make sure I have this round on October because you always know Christian's gonna start saying wacky things. Okay, all right, here we go. The highest, the highest holiday, the number one holiday for a Satanist. The number one, the highest, the most holy day for a Satanist is not Halloween. Any pastor who tells you that is misrepresenting everything. Let me read it to you. This is page ninety six of the Satanic Bible. If I had video always show you. If I need to, I can take a picture and post it. I can send it out as I'll put it as an article on the Sermon Audio website.

41:57 But I'll probably get in trouble for doing that. But here it is. There's Anton Lave's in the back standing in front of a pentagram. Okay, here we go, here we. Go, all right. The highest of all holidays and the Satanic religion, is the date of one's own birth. This is in direct contradiction to the holy of holy days of other religions, which deify a particular God who has been created in an anthropomorphic form of their own image, thereby allowing that the ego is not really buried. The Satanist feels, why not really be honest, and if you're going to create a god in your image, why not create that god as yourself. Every man is a god if he chooses to recognize himself as one. So the Satanist celebrates his own birthday as the most important holiday of the year.

42:55 If you're going to get all upset about Satanic holidays. Stop celebrating birth days. Man, every year, I got to do that exact same thing. Been doing it for now. It feels like my entire Christian life, I mean my entire you know what's hilarious, My entire my salvation is very much linked to a discussion about the Satanic Bible. I've told the story a million times. I'm in high school. There's a guy who claims to be a Satanist, right, he claims to be a Satanist, and he's talking to all these Christian girls, right, and they're trying to invite him to the revival, the Fall Revival going on that night, and he's just saying all these things, I'm a Satanist and Satanist this, and Satanist that, and Satanists do this and Satanists do that. And I'm like, dude, stop. So I just kind of get involved. It's not that I'm taking up for the Christian girls because I think they're all you know, I hate to say it, I thought they were all idiots, so you know whatever, And I'm just like, dude, come on, man, the Satanic Bible doesn't say this Satanic, but you're just making up stuff. You sound like you've got it from a horror movie. That's not Satanism, all right. Satanism is atheistic, you worship yourself, right, it's come on, satan is just a symbol of these things.

44:09 Can you get it? Right? And so I kind of jump in. Well, then afterwards the girls are like, oh, thank you so much for taking up for us. We really appreciate it, Okay, And I know I'm kind of mocking, but yeah, that's kind of how I felt. And I'm like, just leave me alone and go jump off a bridge somewhere. Just don't bother me. And they're like, you need to come to our Fall Revival and I'm like, no, I'm not coming to your Fall Revival. Leave me alone, right, So I went home and then well, chaos erupted in my house and it was crazy and violent, and so I'm like, well, I'm going somewhere and guess where I ended up at the Fall Revival And guess what happened. I got saved, all right. So my salvation is connected to me arguing about what Satanism really is. And now, all of these years later, I'm still arguing about what Satanism really is.

44:51 Now. If you want to say, if you want to identify a certain form of Satanism, then please identify. And when you say, hey, I've been reading some books, please give me the name of said books. I would love to know those books and which Satanism they are referencing. But whenever it gets around Halloween, Christians just say the most ridiculous things about Satanism. I remember being a Grace University. I don't even know what class I was in, and everybody was just saying it. It was around October and everybody was saying these ridiculous things about Satanists. And I'm like, would you people just stop talking? And I think I had with me my Satanic Bible and I pulled it out and neverbody oooh, oh my goodness. So everybody hit the floor like I pulled out a gun. I'm like, look, if you're gonna talk about it, how about you actually open it up. So let me say again, if you've got Christians running around saying Halloween it's a Satanic holiday, it's the highest holiday of a Satanist. No birthday is now. Oh, if you want to talk about Halloween, if you want to just talk about it, if you want to talk about it, if you want to be, you know, if you want to be really really really really fair with it.

46:04 Halloween is mentioned, all right, so uh so after one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays is and I don't even know how to pronounce the next one, uh and then the third. So Halloween is the third most important holiday to a Satanist, the third, not the first, not even the second, the third, okay, the third. So can we at least get it? Look, and you know why this bothers me, because we're not supposed to bear false witness, right, And you can get a paperback copy of the Satanic Bible for probably about five dollars, all right, probably buy it for us for a dollar fifty dollar fifty probably all right. Anybody have one, okay, and people like but in us demons on it. The Satanism of Anton Leavey is a theistic all right. Come on, now, let's see what he's going to say here, what they do to people. This reminds me of the eighties, the Great Satanic Scare of the eighties, where we thought we're all going to be kidnapped and sacrificed by Satanists. They were all supposedly roaming around, okay, remember that. Okay, that's there's the entire articles written about the subject. I lived through it. I know.

47:18 You know what they do. They drink their blood, They chop their bodies up. They actually use a hamburger grinder. I have one. I make sausage with it, make hamburger mate. And they grind them up in that thing and makes it with their drink and drink it. It gives them demonic powers. They say, So there's nothing near you. What satanist grinds people up in a hemburger or whatever thing he called and mixes it with their drink to give them to where.

48:02 Oh man, let's see here. I think I have the chapter. Thank god, I think I have the chapter. I may not here. See eighty seven? Case is it chapter eighty seven? Uh? Okay, yeah, just right here. Contrary to all established magical theory, the release of this force is not affected in the actual spilling of blood, but in the death throes of the living creature. This discharge of bioelectrical energy is the very same phenomenon which occurs during any profound heightening of the emotions, such as and I can't go into what they say next, blind anger, mortal terror, consuming grief. Of these emotions, the easiest entered into is one's own violation or well, I won't go into that, or anger, with grief running a close third. Remembering that the two most readily available of these three anger, I'll just go with that one have been burned into man's unconscious as sinful by religionists. It is small wonder that they are shunned by the white magician who plods along carrying the greatest of all millstone guilt. Right, what goes in here and basically what is here? We go? The use of human sacrifice and Satanic ritual does not imply that the sacrifice

49:35 is slaughtered to appease the gods. Symbolically, the victim is destroyed through the working of a hex or curse, which in turn leads to physical, mental, or emotional destruction of the sacrifice in ways and means not attributed to the magician. All right, So this would be going against the idea of human sacrifice. Now, it does get into some things here that are very disturbing by all means, right, gets into some things that we would be completely against. I'm not saying it's not I'm not saying Satanism and its form is Christian, or we would agree with it. I'm just saying we have to we have to represent it correctly, all right, Okay, under no circumstance would a Satanist sacrifice any animal or baby. For centuries, propagandists of the right hand have path have been prattling over the supposed sacrifices of small children and vulptuous, vulptuous maidens at the hands of diabolitis. It would be thought that anyone reading or hearing of these heinous accounts would immediately question their authenticity, taking into consideration the bias sources of these stories. On the contrary, as with all holy lies, which are accepted without reservation, this assumed modus upperendi of the Satanists persists to this day. So they say that, but under no circumstances would that happen. Yet it's continued promoting. They even call it propagad They even tell you that this this,

51:07 this is what religious people do, and religious people go around doing the very thing saying to say religious people do and not even realize they're doing what the Satanic Bible even says they do. Now, look, if you know of a specific group that does this identify the group by name, say where they're headquartered, where are they at? Who are And if you just say, well I read it in a book, what book? I can read anything in a book. Well, if you quote a book, I can quote a book. You quote a book about a group, I'll quote the book by the group. Now, if you've got inside information, then then okay, then give me, give me the evidence. But mean and mean cases you're making. In most cases, you're just making accusations and you could be bearing false witness. All right, now this turned in. Now, see we're not gonna even get We're not even gonna get where we need to go. All right, we need to get to metaphorical language. But here, you know, and hey, if the Bible, oh never mind, we can go into all kinds of directions with that. All right, but let's let's let's see, let's see if he wraps this up, and then we'll yeah, well you're gonna almost have to stop and do another part to get to the actual rules.

52:21 But this just gets getting, it gets getting more and more, just way off topic here, all right. See, that's what that's what the devil is all about, and what it looks like that abomination, bit of desolation, and that's what that thing is all about. It's it's it's cannibalism. You want to hear the figurative part. There's a group of people from Rome that do that every Sunday. H that's what they teach. I don't believe they're eating a little body of Jesus, but that's what they say.

53:02 In fact, they say, if you don't believe that, you're damned that they drink in the little blood and eating the literal body of Jesus for their salvation. That priest stands up and says any meani mighty more or whatever he says. In Latin, they call it trans something substance. Yeah, whatever that long word is. And what it means is he's turning that cup of wine into literal blood and the people drink it. He's turning the wafer into literal body and you digest it in your system.

53:43 So there is a generation. Now, I didn't have funny and proverbs. When it talks about eating flesh, it's literal Psalm fourteen. When it talks about eating, it's literal Isaiah six. When it talks about eating literal Mica three. When it talks about eating literal when Jesus says, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood all of a sudden, now that's metaphorical. See, that's the figurative part this. All of these verses are literal, but that's metaphorical.

54:25 You see. You see why nobody can agree on anything in the Bible. You see, Hey, he says those verses are metaphorical, where Roman Catholicism would say, wait, wait, wait, we think we have to take this more literal. Right, it says eat my flesh, drink my blood. That's what it says, right, and we no, no, no, that's metaphorical. Then he goes over here to proverbs where most people would say these are metaphorical, and he's like, no, that's literal. There's gonna be people who literally are eating people. This is why Biblical interpretation, in many cases it's just literally a free for all. It's just anarchy. Everyone can just anyone can make it say whatever they want whenever they want. You want to make it metaphorical, you can make it metaphorical.

55:10 You want to make it literal, you can make it literal, and then everyone does what they want in their own eyes. It's just total complete and utter anarchy. And if you don't believe, just the more sermons you listen to, the more you see this, the more you read, the more Christian books you read, the more commentaries you read, the more sermons you listen to the more at some point you're just like, you know what, you can just say whatever you want and someone's going to criticize you. Of course they're going to tell you you're wrong. But who cares if they tell you you're wrong? Right? Who are they to tell me they're wrong? There's go through two thousand years of church history. There's not an interpretation that you can think of that hasn't been suggested. It's out there, so you can tell me I'm wrong. So what so what they're five thout? There's there's a million people will tell you you're wrong. Everyone thinks you're right, you're right, you're wrong, you're wrong. It's just it's just uttered complete, total anarchy. But it's just funny. He's gonna condemn and mock Roman Catholicism because he doesn't like their interpretation. See, they take where Jesu says, you must eat my body and drink you drink my blood, and eat my flesh or you have no part of me. Oh no, no, no no, that's metaphorical. And he mocks them. He mocks them any mini miney mode, mocking the Latin phrase, just mocking.

56:27 So he's gonna mock and make fun of people who say this passage is literal. Well, then he goes and look at all these other passages where everyone would say they're metaphorical, and he says they're literal. How do you? And then he completely misrepresents Satanism, saying that Halloween's the most holy day, which is just not true. It's birthday. I mean literally, he's right here in the Satanic Bible puts forth some of the same Satanic propaganda or but anti Satanism propaganda that's been put forth forever that even Satanist mock.

57:12 Literally, they are gonna come and they're gonna eat poor folks, and it's because they refuse the mark of the base that they're poor. And it looks like they're beheaded at an altar as part of a worship service, because what the devil wolves is worship. Strange way to get worshiped, man't it? Look at the next verse Proverbs thirty. Okay, we'll get what's That's where we're gonna stop. Now. What we need to do. What we need to do, ladies and gentlemen, is I have here in front of me one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, have seven basic we'll call them kind of an outline for determining when the Bibles using metaphor or versus literal language. Since we have all about just like two minutes, I'll just go through these quickly just so that you can write these down, and we're gonna have to spend some more time going through this, all right. Obviously, the first thing you have to do is you've got to understand the genre of the passage. Whatever passage you're reading, what genre, what literary genre is that? For example, Psalms, Proverbs, Song of Solomon tends to use metaphorical and symbolic language. Why what genre is it? Poetry? Hmmm, it's using poetry, and poetry uses metaphor, so that should at least give you pause.

58:38 Wait a minute. The first passage was in Proverbs, the second one was in Psalms. Hmm, that's poetry. They poetry uses metaphor throughout Proverbs. Throughout Psalms, metaphor is used. So immediately that would give me pause. Prophetic literature Isaiah, Jeremiah, revel or just a few uses vivid imagery and metaphors to convey spiritual truths. Where was the next passage? He went to Isaiah six and Micah. The minor prophets, Are they not prophetic? Hmm? So the two literary genres, poetry and prophecy are util and he never bothered to say, wait, the literary genre here could make an argument that this is a metaphor. Historical narratives Genesis Exodus acts generally describe literal events, but still may include figurative speech or literary devices within the narrative. So even within a historical narrative, you could have figurative speech. Wisdom literature, job and Ecclesiastes frequently uses metaphor and comparisons to express deeper truths about life and God. So the first thing you have to do, you've got to understand the genre. Let me see it this way, I will say, I will see it this way.

59:53 You have to identify the literary type, the literary genre. Now, once you you've got a passage of scripture, what's the literary genre? Now? Is this literary genre known for metaphor. Yes, Okay, Now I'm not saying that means it's metaphor. I'm not saying that that means you don't take it literal. I'm saying that that means, HMW, what do I do here? What do I look for here? What do I do? That's at least at least gets you started right? That at least gets you started. Another thing. As you consider immediate context, what are the adjacent versus, say, examine the verses around the passage. If the surrounding texas clearly symbolic or figurative, the passage in question is likely metaphorical.

1:00:41 Well, go to. Proverbs chapter thirty. Look at the very verse verse Proverbs chapter thirty, verse twelve. There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Now obviously washed from your filthiness. It's got to be somewhat of a metaphor. You don't wash yourself to get rid of your filthiness. There's I think a little bit of a metaphor there. There's a generation. Oh, how lofty are their eyes? And their eyelids are lifted up? Well, the eyes and eyelids. It's not talking about Oh, your eye and your eyelid is lifted up. That's symbolic or metaphorical for what pride? Right, So then you come to the next verse. There is a generation whose teeth are as swords, clearly using a metaphor, and their jaw teeth as knives, clearly using a metaphor to devour the poor from off the earth. Clearly it's a metaphor. And how they're going to treat the poor? I think. I think the verses before seem to establish some metaphorical language is being used, or at least we should say this based off the immediate context. It seems to imply that this could be metaphorical, right, I think that that's fair.

1:01:54 Right. So Number one we look at we identify the literary genre. Number two, we look at the immediate context, all right, and what do we look for in the immediate context the adjacent verses which we just did. The subject of the passage is the writer addressing a concept such as God's power or human sinfulness that is difficult to depict literally. If so, metaphorical language may be employed to help explain complex ideas. So we just look at the context. Number three, we evaluate the nature of the statement and possibility of literal interpretation. If a literal reading leads to an absurd or impossible scenario Jesus is the door, it is more likely to be metaphorical. Well, we're going to eat the poor.

1:02:37 What is the exact verse, devour the poor from off the earth. There's not going to be any poor people left. All the poor people are going to be devoured. That seems a little absurd to take it that way, correct, I think that that's saying that the poor people are going to be horribly treated, right, I think, I mean, I think we would have to at least consider that, right. Figure of speech indicators look for words that suggest a comparison or figure of speech, such as like as or is like. These often signify metaphors or similes. Well, look what we have. There is a generation whose teeth are as swords, they're jaws, teeth as knives. So now, so all of the clues that you typically would find and a basic hermeneutical instruction on how to interpret the Bible, they're giving you that this is all yelling and screaming simile metaphor figurative language. All right, So there's so number one, we have understand the genre. Number two, we have considered the immediate context. Number three, evaluate the nature of the statement right and possibility of literal interpretation that kind of thing figurative speech indicators. How about examine the use of common Biblical metaphors recurrent themes. Certain metaphors are used consistently throughout the Bible. Light representing holiness, Shepherd representing life. Identifying these patterns helps determine if a passage uses a familiar metaphor.

1:04:05 A familiar metaphor, Well, he just demonstrated that this is somewhat of a familiar metaphor used in numerous places in his mind. These other verses proved that it was literal. It could be argued that all of these verses would show that this was a common metaphor. Cultural idioms. Many metaphors reflect the cultural context of the time. Agricultural imagery. Understanding ancient cultural references help in identifying a metaphorical language. Now, is this a cultural idiom where you talk about eating the poor, eating people? Is that a cultural idiom? I don't know at this point. I cannot be dogmatic about that, but it would be something we would have to look for. Yeah, I'll just stop there. Two. I got more here. I got more here that we could get into. But just I want you, I want you to see if we just start looking at the basic principles, we immediately are like, wait a minute, this seems to have all the classic marks of metaphorical language. I'm not saying it is. Look, I'm still allowing for it to be possibly taking literal someway. Now, my issue would be he went to Matthew twenty four applied that to the future. When Matthew twenty four primarily is about seventy eight. That's a problem. He went to that passage in Revelation and immediately turned it into a religious ceremony where people's heads are chopped off and then you drink the blood and you eat the body. That was reading a lot into the text. Not only that, he's taking these other passages and proverbs Isaiah, Sam and

1:05:38 Mica and saying that it's prophetic about something that's going to happen in the tribulation period. I don't think you can take any of those passages to be pointing to anything happening in the tribulation period. There's nothing in these passages that would saying it's going to happen in the tribulation. These all have clear historical context. So already that seems to be already we're having problems. And then to call into question someone's accuracy. He completely misrepresented basic facts about basic Satanism. All right, we'll I have to stop there. Sixty eight sixty six minutes. Yeah, I got pages of notes here, pages I've got, I got it, I've got I also have literally ten specific rules. Right, so we have kind of the basic principles. Then we're gonna break it down into specific rules. I got a lot of information here, and uh, well, well, obviously we're gonna have to do a part three. We're gonna have to do a part three. Man, I just I've got all of my notes on that. There is a generation. I got all my notes. I got that entire I got it.

1:06:53 The proverbs thirty. What is it? Eleven through seventeen? Is that what it is? Let me make sure here, we've looked at so many passages here. I don't want to give you wrong information. I have, Yeah, eleven through seventeen, I have an entire outline for it. I haven't broken down. I have an exegesis of it. I have so much, and we didn't get to any of that. We didn't get to any of that because it turned into this who would have thought? So here's the key. Are Christians ever going to agree? Obviously not on anything, but I believe there has to be basic hermeneutical rules that govern what we do. And you can just see he condemned Catholics for taking a passage literally. Well, he's running to another passage and he's taking it literal, so he's making an argument for the literal reading. But then he condemns them for their literal reading. Well, why is his literal reading right and they're literal reading wrong?

1:07:52 And who gets to determine who's right and who's wrong? When you offer an interpretation? Just the Bible gop beep warning you that it's wrong? Or does it go ding? You got it right? Who get you? We get to determine if we're right, We get to determine if we're wrong. We do who say no? The Bible does no? Multiple people using the same Bible coming to different conclusions. All right, Well that was fine, Thank you for listening. Now your free class. The bell rings?

1:08:36 Right? Do I have a bell? Do I have a bell? Sound? Do I have a bell sound. I think I have a bell sound. Here we go. There you go. Classes over the weekend is here. Now you can run out going. Wow, that was some crazy stuff. That was crazy stuff. We talked about chopping up bodies and chopping off heads, drinking blood, eating flesh. What a class that was today? He said, what what what school do you go to? Oh? I go to the Bible College in the seminary and that was my hermeneutics class. All right, well, there you go. You don't need a you don't need a horror movie tonight. You've got to well you can have a good discussion about metaphor versus literal and uh, well you can let me know what you think. Everyone, have a great afternoon, a great evening, and a great weekend, and well, God bless