Metaphor or Literal ? Pt 1

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. This generation, they are so entitled, they are lazy, they're disrespectful, They spend all of their time looking at social media. You can't get them to put their phone down. I mean, this generation is a mess. If this is the future, we are doomed. I mean, I can't stand this generation. Have you ever heard older people talk that way? Have you ever talked that way? What's the deal with people complaining about this generation? Well, in this episode, we're going to talk about there is a generation, and then we're going to talk about this phenomenon of older generations complaining about this generation. And we're going to do all of this in the context of a section of Scripture and Proverbs, chapter thirty. Sound interesting, sound like something you want to listen to, Well, keep listening and we'll get to that right after I do this. Good morning everyone. It is Friday, October eighteenth, twenty twenty four. It is currently eleven seventeen am Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas.

1:38 I think I have a plan, hopefully this will go well. So let me explain what's going on. I always like to I like to kind of give you the behind the scenes and how I have arrived at a specific subject or a specific topic. Why do I want to talk about this generation? Why do I want to talk about there is a generation? Because we're going to be looking up Proverbs chapter thirty, Proverbs Chapter thirty, versus eleven through seventeen, Proverbs Chapter thirty versus eleven through seventeen, And you're gonna see a phrase repeated a few times. Are you ready? Proverbs chapter thirty, start and verse. Starting in verse eleven, we read, there is a generation. Look at verse twelve, there is a generation. Look at verse thirteen, there is a generation. Look at verse fourteen, there is a generation. Okay, you see I'm not that clever, right, I see that. I'm like, okay, well, there is a generation, this generation. Okay, I can see some similarities how older generations say this generation, and here it's saying there is a generation. So we're gonna talk about it. Are you ready to read a little bit of this. Let's read a little bit of it, all right, are you ready?

2:57 Here we go Proverbs verse eleven, There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother. Verse twelve. There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Verse thirteen. There is a generation, Oh, how lofty are their eyes, and their eyelids are lifted up. Verse fourteen, there is a generation whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. The horse leech hath two daughters crying give give. There are three things that are never satisfied.

3:46 YEA. Four things say not it is enough. The grave and the barren womb, the earth that is not filled with water, and the fire that saith not it is enough. Seventeen reads the eyes that mocketh at his father and despiseth to obey his mother. The ravens of the valleys shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. Wow, there's a lot going on in those verses. Proverbs thirty eleven through seventeen. I present these verses to you. Maybe you can make this the source of your meditation and your devotional time, Maybe your sermon listening maybe you can just spend time in Proverbs chapter thirty, verses eleven through seventeen over the next few days for the sermons two point oh app sermon challenge to look up sermons on Proverbs thirty verses eleven through seventeen. You may want to do that. So but how did I end up here?

4:46 How did I end up in this section of scripture? Well, it's the sermon's two point oh app sermon Challenge. So I grabbed the app and I just started looking for random sermons and I found a sermon entitled Bible Study. And I'm like, okay, well, Bible Study. Do I really want to click on this because yesterday we had that one about the allegorical method of Bible study and a series on Bible study and that turned into a complete and total disaster. So I hit play, and as soon as it started playing, it said hey, Proverbs chapter thirty, verse eleven and started looking at this section. I'm like, well, you know what, I'm going to at least listen to this for a couple of seconds. So I started listening to it, figured out the text, then did my own work, my own research, my own study. I have probably four or five pages of notes, and guess what, that's what we're going to do. We are going to We're going to listen to this and then maybe go to my own notes. We're just going to kind of introduce all of this and this. I'm really liking this approach. You know.

5:53 I find a sermon, I start listening to the very beginning of it. I get the text, I get the basic idea. I go to my own research. Then we come back to start the review. And if the review just goes crazy, if the review goes off the rails, I can stop it at any point and just go back to all of my notes and try to do something more productive with it. I like that because it gives me, you know, I listen for five minutes, maybe maybe ten minutes, get the basic idea, and then I go off and do my own study. So I'm kind of using sermons now really to just dig in more for my own than just relying on the sermons. Because some of the sermon reviews have gone so negatively. I like having something more positive to fall back on. So we will start this and get kind of a basic idea of where they're going. Maybe we'll end up staying with it. Maybe we will not. Maybe we'll get to all of my notes, maybe we will not. I don't know where we're gonna go, but we've got lots to do.

6:50 So let's just see how far we can get. And we'll stop whenever I need to stop. Are you ready? Here? We Gomber thirty down around twelve and thirteen about these generations and says, there's a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet it's not washed from their filthiness. There is a generation old. How lofty are their eyes? Exclamation point? And their eye lids are lifted up? And I said, Sunday at the end, what ultimately, damn somebody is pride? I mean, they don't they think they're pure in their own eyes, self righteousness, They don't need a savior, they don't need to do anything about their sins. They justify all their sins and say that it's okay. Look at turn to Psalms one point thirty one. Then we're gonna go to Isaiah for a few minutes. This thing about being old, how lofty are their eyes? And that's the statement that's got to do with pride. Psalms one hundred and thirty one. David says, Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty. You see how that lofty eyes go along with the haughtiness. Neither do I exercise myself in great matters or things too high for me.

8:22 He's not getting it over his head. He's not getting lifted up in pride and getting You see how I stay it humble, staying low, not getting into things it's too high for him, not trying to get in something over his head. He mentions their lofty eyes. Look at it again in Isaiah chapter number two Isaiah chap number two. It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. The Bible teaches humility, and the Bible teaches all through out it.

9:06 What our problem is is ourself, you know, and our stinking pride, and even natural we're saved. We gotta be careful with it and stay and ki. You don't want God to humble you better if you humble yourself. I mean, just take this knowledge in and realize you're stuck on yourself. Amen, and just you know, get down and stayed down. Uh, Isaiah too, look at Bristomber eleven. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled. That's a promise from God said, he will humble you, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. I guess that's the problem. It's this competition going on. See, we we want, we wanna exalt ourself above the Lord. That was the devil's problem back now's there fourteen.

10:04 Okay, So it looks like he's going to approach this by just focusing really on verse thirteen. There is a generation or how lofty are their eyes and their eyelids are lifted up. It seems like he's going to focus on the subject of pride, which is a very good subject to discuss. Right, and now he kind of made that phrase, well, even after you're saved, he kind of makes it like we kind of struggle with it. Let's just make it very clear, saved, unsaved, it does not matter. The sinful nature which you still possess even after salvation. The very essence of it is pride. The very essence of your nature is arrogance. The very essence of your nature is all about you. As I typically say, sin is the exaltation of the eye sin si, and it's the exaltation of the exultation of making us the center of everything. It's about me, me, me, me, me me, my wants, my desires. That's what we are in our essence.

11:09 We're arrogant, self centered, prideful. That is what we are. And pride is a sin, and it's a sin in the church. Now, the thing is, you rarely see anyone getting in trouble for pride. Pride is one of the I mean, it's really the root of everything. It's the problem with everything. But we have a tendency to look at other sins and treat them as you know, these are the big ones. But pride really kind of we kind of overlook it. Now sometimes we will preach against it, but we still treat it radically different. And I think because you can kind of cover up pride, you maybe can make pride look good in certain ways. It may not, it doesn't look as scandalous as other sins. Now, let's see if he's just going to make this all about pride, or if he's gonna circle back and come back and put it in and you know, do something with the Proverbs thirty section, right, Is he just going to make this all about pride or is he going to go back to this phrase, there is a generation. There is a generation. There is a generation. There is a generation.

12:19 Is he going to start talking about a generation or is he just going to focus on pride. If he's just gonna focus on pride, I'm going to then come back in and we're going to focus on this idea there is a generation, and we're gonna look on not there is a generation, but we're gonna look at the phrase this generation, and we'll talk about, well, that's the direction I want to go. I don't know which direction he's going to go, but we will see. Right here we go, Let's let's find. Out he's going to resolve himself above the throne of God. We were his children, you know that before we got born again, And that's that's in all of us. You gotta we got to hit to keep it down. Look at verse number twelve. For the day of the Lord of host shall be upon everyone that is proud and lofty, and upon everyone that is lifted up, and he should be brought low while we in Isaiah. Look at Isaiah five.

13:18 Our proverb says, there is a generation. Oh, how lofty are their eyes? And their eyelids are lifted up. You are taught by this world that you are it self esteem. It's all about you. I think the reason you're taught that in this world is because it's what we are in our nature. Our nature is prideful, it's about exaltation of self. Therefore, the world simply reflects back what's inside of all of us. It's not so much that the world teaches us to be that we are already that the world is teaching what we all know. It's just reflecting what's inside of us.

14:06 Is how I would. I would challenge that a little bit. It's not that we're taught to be that that's what we are. The teaching simply reflects what's inside all of us. You can do it, you know. And uh, that's totally opposite with the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches you ain't no good. You ain't no good. You understand, and you got to keep that thing in bout us. Man. I understand you need a certain amount of self esteem to make it through, but it's it should be leaning on God to get you through, not yourself. You see the difference, because somewhere in there you'll cross the line. It turns into pride and haughtiness and lofty eyes five fifteen. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled. So the opposite of humility is these lofty eyes. One more time, Isaiah fifty seven. I've always thought this was interesting to know about the Lord. And he can do that because he is God. And this

15:39 is why I say we're in competition with him with our pride, said Isaiah fifty seven. Fifteen. Thus say, if the high and lofty one, now we can't do that, well, God can one that inhabited eternity that is pretty high. You don't even have it in terms that you're going to one day. But even then, God did it for you. Whose name is holy. I dwell in the high and holy place with him. Also, he's way up there high now as well you say it. But he also dwells with people that are of a contract and humble spirit, so he can respi he can revive the spirit of the humble and revive the heart of the contract. Once back to Proverbs thirty, don't forget there's a generation that is pure in their own eyes. Verse number twelve. You're you're there. People justify almost anything, any sin imaginable now and say it's say it's okay, pure in their own eyes, and they're not washing their filthiness.

17:01 Now, that's what I was waiting for. You're there now, all right. So there is a generation and he's saying we are in that generation. That's what I was waiting for, because that's what older people always do. This is the generation. This generation does this, This generation does it. This is just like just common language, all right, And we're gonna talk about this phenomenon because I think we need to discuss it. Let him go a little bit further. His style here is kind of very just very methodical and kind of very much calmer than I am, so but we'll let him just take this a little further. I knew at some point he was gonna say, hey, we're in that generation. I knew it was coming. If we were in Vegas, I would have put money down on it.

17:46 Not promoting gambling. I'm just obviously as an illustration, I'm just saying that's how sure I was that it was going to happen. And there's a generation there's full of pride. Version I'm a thirteen in that interest. That's verse thirteen. Yeah, look at fourteen. There's a generation whose teeth are as swords and their jaw teeth as knives. Well, what for to devour the poor from off the earth and the needy from among men? You could just read that and say, well, that's just metaphorically speaking, But uh, there is coming a time on the earth when men will eat poor folks with their teeth and with their jaws, just like that proverb says, uh.

18:50 There's coming a time when people will eat poor folk. I'm trying to think, is he referencing something in Revelation? All right, okay, all right, let's see if he explains this. Just a few places. Look at Psalm's fourteen. Psalm's fourteen, coming through the Book of Proverbs, all thirty one chapters, there is just all kind of prophetic stuff in there about the tribulation the anti Christ. You know how we kept running across versus It says the wicked, the wicked, the wicked, And I could have run off and talked all bunch of stuff about the wicked being the devil, the Antichrist, and got your adoptal truth there. I've been coming through here, just trying to get a practical application that we can apply to ourselves. Okay, well, I guess we could do the same thing and Proverbs thirty fourteen and just get a practical application. But it's just pretty evident here. The thing is literal. Look at Songs fourteen when you put it with some other verses in the Bible.

20:19 I'm just going to show you three and we'll move on Songs fourteen four Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? That's a good question. We're studying right now about add knowledge daily. I guess without it, you've become a worker of iniquity. And look what it says after. I'm a little perplexed. And where he's kind of going here. I had to look this up now according to AA, according to artificial intelligence, because I have it right here. It just makes it quick to look things up. AI says the Bible does not explicit teach that there will be a time when people will literally eat the poor. However, there are several passages where extreme oppression or exploitation of the poor is described in metaphorical terms, which must give rise, which might give rise to this interpretation. It makes a reference to Proverbs thirty fourteen right. It quotes Micah three verses one through three. Here, ye heads of Jacob and rulers of the House of Israel, is it not for you to know justice? You who hate the good and love the evil, who tear the skin from off my people, and their flesh from off their bones, who eat the flesh of my people, in flay their skin from off them, and break the bones in pieces, and chop them up like meat, and a pot, like flesh and a cauldron.

21:45 Now here seems to be referring to something that was happening, not necessarily prophetic. Here the prophet Micah condemns the leaders of Israel for their oppression of the people. The language of eating is metaphorical, illustrating the extreme cruelty and injustice of its leaders. Then, so I'm fourteen four. I think where he's getting ready to go? Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? Who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord? Again? The eating is a metaphor, So I yeah, I don't know where he I don't know where he's getting unless he's going to say that these metaphor are actually prophetic and it's not a metaphor. Now, now we get into an argument kind of we talked about allegorical you know, the allegorical method. Well, he's trying to go very literal, but is this metaphorical language? See it's you want to be literal, but if the language is a metaphor, you don't want to then take a metaphorical language and then make it literal. What do you what do you think about those passages? Do you think, well, one, are they speaking of something future? Or they seem to be describing something happening at that time? That's number one, he said, it's something that will happen. And number two, what would be your argument for making the language literal or making the language metaphorical? All right, so maybe maybe we'll come back to that. Let's see where he takes this. It's not exactly where I want to go with this, but that's the beauty of listening to sermons. That's why we

23:16 listen to sermons, because we're confronted with ideas and concepts that we may not even be thinking about. So here I got the idea of proverbs thirty and I'm sitting here trying to take the passage apart outline it execute it, and he's what he's doing is kind of going from verse and just just doing them, finding phrases and then just doing random cruss referencing. Seems to be his approach. So very different approaches. Let's see, let's see where he goes here. That who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord. So there are some people that don't call on the Lord. They're workers of iniquity.

23:58 They don't have no knowledge to eat people just like they eat bread. Said, well, that's probably just metaphoric. I don't know. Look at Isaiah six, Isaiah six in the Bible when it says my people, who is that? That's Israel Isaiah sixth thirteen. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return and shall be eaten as a teal tree and as an oak whose substance is in them when they cast their leaves. So the holy seed shall be the substance thereof that holy seed is Israel. That's a child of Israel. And he's talking about he's talking about a tenth of those people returning, and it says they'll be eating I think about it says, as this oak tree whose substances in them when they cast their leaves. Right now, the sap is going down,

25:29 and when that sap goes down, the leaves fall off the trees. See, he says, the Holy seed shall be the substance thereof, it's the substance of those of those tenth right there, turned to Micah Micah, chapter number three. Then we'll go to revelations. Okay, when we look at the Mica through this is going in completely different direction. My notes mine, I want to get into this generation discussion. We will, we may get, we may not get very far. I'm gonna let him take this and just I have to correct this. It's not revelations, it's revelation. It's the it's the revelation. It's not revelations. But that's okay. That maybe just be you know, a cultural thing. I say things sometimes very incorrectly because you know, being from West Texas, born and raised so I and just sometimes just not saying things correctly. So I'm not making a big deal out of It's just it's the Book of Revelation. It's not revelations, Okay, it's it's the revelation of Jesus Christ.

26:40 Right. But now, so he's really doubling down on people are going to be literally eaten. I don't know where he seems to be making it prophetic right, that there's coming a time that people are going to be eaten. I I, this is kind of interesting. I had no idea. Okay, this is kind of we we talked about the allegorical method and we got all fresh or at least I got all frustrated and the way that went down, and I thought we were gonna get all away from that. But now we're getting into a discussion at what point? So I think, well, we're good. Where's gonna where's this gonna go with this? We're gonna go with this. So here's really the question, how how do you know when language is metaphorical? And how do you know when language is to be taken literal? In the Bible? How can what what rules do you follow to go that's metaphorical, that's clearly not literal? Now, when when the passage talks about people being eaten? Do you when do you go that's metaphorical? When do you say that's literal? If if we go back and look at all of his cross references, and he's given a lot I haven't written all of these down. I'm kind of angry at myself. I shouldn't have been writing all of these down. Typically I have a notebook here in a pencil, but I got I got distracted because I thought this is going a completely different direction. So if someone can go back and the name of this sermon is Bible Study by Mike G. Marshall.

28:09 Bible Study Mike G. Marshall, I think it was posted today. If someone can go back and get all of these cross references, that would be great. But yeah, I'm just I guess this just serves as a good example. And let's be very I'm not in any way insinuating anything negative about this person. He's reading the text and he's approaching it kind of arguing, well, I know everyone's going to say it's metaphorical, but what if it's not metaphorical. I mean, that's a good question to ask, But to me, the question is, how do we know when it's metaphorical and how do we not. There's got to be some rules that give us some kind of clue. Right, the person sitting in the pew who reads the Bible's got to be able to determine, oh, that's literal that's metaphorical.

28:54 And this is where this just is once again a demonstration of how Christians can come to radically different conclusions. And it doesn't mean you insinuate that the person is evil or just trying to change the Bible. No, this is real questions. So he's going to go to the Mica passage, which we've already read. Now, artificial intelligence is clearly it's convinced it's metaphorical. It's convinced it's metaphorical. But even Ai said, let me quote how AI stated it, that there are certain passages which might give rise to this interpretation of the Bible saying that people will be eaten. Right, So the AI at least says, these are the passages that may give rise to it. And the passages he quoted as Proverbs thirty verse fourteen, which is what started all of this. And then Micah chapter three, verses one through three, and I saw im fourteen to four, which he just read. Now he's going to go to the Book of Revelation. That's where I was thinking, is there something in Revelation where it's going to go and there's a passage I I think maybe, but it's not about people eating people, is it or am I missing something? Well, let's go to the He's going to go to Micah chapter three, if you want to turn there, Let's see where this goes. He does this very interesting thing where

30:27 he talks and he'll just stop for like a long period of time, a long period of time, just silence. So that's okay. I mean that's just again you listening to preaching. You hear different styles, different ways of communicating, which it can be fascinating from just a purely examining it from the technique that's being utilized to communicate. But okay, he's turning to Micah. He may be having a problem finding it. Sometimes that can happen. You think you know where a book is. Next thing, you're like you're turning and you're turning, and you're turning and your turn usually you will say something. But okay, all right, but he's he's in the minor prophets, he's in Micah. There it is all right. Chapter three. I mean, I've got the verse right here in front of me. I don't need to turn here, but all right, so here we go.

31:17 Daniel Obah, Diah Jonah, Micah. That a way, Yeah, I think he was having trouble finding it for a second, and I just know that because someone is who's taught for so many years. Sometimes I'll be like, okay, there's even been times like I just can't find it for some reason. I don't know why what I do, and no one should ever be ashamed of doing this. I just flipped to the beginning right to the table of contents. Look, oh, there's the page number, and just go to the page number. The minute I realized, oh, I can't find it, I just flipped to the table of contents and go. I mean, I'm ninety nine percent of the time I find it. I mean, I've been reading a staying in the Bible forever, but there's always those times for some weird reason, and you're like, wait, where is this, And especially if you're standing in front of people, just flip to the table of contents real quick. It takes five seconds. And I think what preacher should do is tell everyone it's okay.

32:11 I think what you should do is, hey, I can't find this right now, I'm going to go turn to the table of contents. He said, Well, that destroys your perception of authority. Who cares, We're real human beings, we're sinners. We're all trying to figure it out. Make people feel comfortable with turning to the table of Contents. It's not a bad thing if you need to use it, Okay, it's okay. Right. The key is everyone finding the passage. Who cares how you get there? Right? So all right, it's all right. But I'm not saying he was doing anything wrong there, just like I could tell something was going on. And then when he started going through the books to get there to me, was that's why there was that silence there? He was like, wait, where did where is where? Why am I missing it? And especially with the minor profits, you can just go right past it real quick, and then you go back and you pass it again. You're like, where is it? I know it's here? Who moved it from my Bible? Where is it? And then you have to just start going. You's got to turn page by and there it is, there's Micah. All right, all right, So here we go.

33:15 Michaeh three one, And I said, here, I pray you, old heads of Jacob and ye, princes of the House of Israel. Is it not for you to know judgment who hate the good and love the evil who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones, who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them, and they break their bones and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the cauldron. Then shall they cry to the Lord, But he will not hear them. He will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in the doings. You see all stuff about eighting people. Yeah, it's gross, all right.

34:10 So this is what we're gonna do. This is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna leave it right here. So what I want you to do, I'm gonna give you an assignment. I want you to go to. I want you to go to you see here, I'm going to go to these verses. I want you to go to Proverbs thirty. I want you to write these down Proverbs thirty fourteen Micah three verses one through three, Proverbs fourteen to four, where it seems to indicate the eating of people, the eating of their flesh, the ripping off their flesh. And what I want you to do is take those verses, do some more cross referencing and see if there's any other verses that seem to indicate the same concept. And then I want you to try. I want you to make a list of why should be taken metaphorically or why you shouldn't take it you should take it literally.

35:00 I want you to make a determination why it should be metaphorical or why it should be literal, and then we will come back at some point, maybe today, and we will see what we can discover. I think that's what we'll do this way, a completely different direction. I wanted to get to this generation. That's how I even started it. This generation. Well, we can't get to this generation because we have well that generation. I don't know how old he is that generation. I don't know what generation he's part of. That generation saying that when we read these verses in the Bible about eating people, that it's not metaphorical, it's literal. Well, is it or isn't it. We'll figure that out and then we'll get to this generation discussion at a later time. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to just stop it right there. I think that's a good place. Gives us an assignment, and we'll come back and we'll work on this. This kind of fell back into the allegorical metaphorical kind of discussion. I wanted to get to this generation. I have all of these notes about how this idea of the older generation criticizing the younger generation goes all the way back. So where did I trace it? All the way back to Socrates in ancient Greece, and then we have an ancient Egyptian, a three thousand year old Egyptian text which laments and I quote, how youth do not respect their elders and are filled with rebellion. So this idea that this generation is messed up goes all the way back to a three thousand year old Egyptian text saying that. So we

36:33 will get to that. But now it's all about metaphorical language in regards to eating people. So you can consider that and we will see what we can do with that. All right, there you go. It kind of fell into a Bible study exercise. Now you start working on it, have a discussion. You can gather everyone around the kitchen table as you're getting ready to serve lunch and say hey to day's discussion. Does the Bible teach that people will eat people? Or does it not discuss all right, You could do okay? Is that is not? Is that not really appropriate? Okay, I'm sorry? Did I Did I offend somebody? But I mean that's that's what we're discussing.

37:17 You may not want to do it around the dinner table, maybe after dinner, all right, but metaphor are literal. You decide, let me know what you find. Thanks for listening. We'll talk about this again soon and say what we can come up with. God bless