Inside a Christian

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. This is Patrol one. Please come in headquarters. This is Patrol one. Come in headquarters, Patrol one. This is headquarters. Go ahead. Yes, I'm at the First Baptist Church and we have made a horrible discovery. We have found three hundred dead bodies. Patrol one. This is headquarters. Can you repeat that. Yes, I'm at the first Baptist Church. We have found three hundred dead bodies.

0:48 Patrol one. We have to try to figure out what to do here. Give us, give us just one second. We're consulting with some experts to know what to do. You said three hundred dead bodies, right, yes, Headquarters, three hundred dead bodies. All right, this is what we need you to do. This is what we need you to do. We need you to grab a mirror, yes, a mirror, and put it in front of the face of each dead body. This should bring about some type of a resurrection, and then all of the bodies will be awake and they can respond and we can find out exactly what happened. All right, So Headquarters, are you telling me to get a mirror? Yes, a mirror, put it in front of their face. Well, Headquarters, we've taken the mirror, We've put it in front of all three hundred faces, and well nothing happened. They're still dead bodies, all right, Patrol one, this is headquarters. All right. This next solution, it may it may not be pretty, but we need to do this just to try to figure out what's going on.

1:54 We need you to get a knife. Headquarters. This is Patrol one. Did you say get a knife, Yes, Patrol one, a knife. Make sure, yeah, make sure you sterilize it, make sure it's good to go, make sure it's nice and clean. Okay, here's what you're going to do. You're going to go to each body and you're going to cut the body open because we have to figure out what's going on on the inside of these bodies. We've got to figure out what is wrong, So we need to open up each body, Headquarters. Are you sure you want me to take a knife and cut open each body to figure out what's going on inside. That is the only thing we know to do right now. The mirror didn't work. That was our best option. The mirror was supposed to be the solution. So now we've got to figure out what went wrong. Okay, obviously you know that this is all just an illustration. I have been using this over and over and over and over and over again. But yes, today, hey, we reach the next dramatic chapter in this ongoing story of three hundred dead bodies found in a Baptist church. Not literal bodies, this is a metaphor. Once again, I have to explain this or people will get all upset. It's not literal bodies.

3:16 But we've been telling this story of someone walking into a Baptist church and seeing three hundred dead bodies and then trying to figure out what to do. And this has all been an illustration really of trying to understand the reality of sin and the life of Christians. Now I will put this all back together and we're going to do well exploratory surgery on Christians in the next few minutes. But before we do that, it is Thursday September twenty sixth, twenty twenty four. It is currently twelve thirty two pm Central time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located here in Abilene, Texas. Now, how did we get to this whole dead body illustration, this whole dead body metaphor this story that I keep adding to over and over and over. Well, it all started because of a book entitled Six Secrets of the Christian Life, and they put forth kind of a hypothesis to help us understand why the Christian life is a life of sin. Christians continue to sin. That is just a fact, even though Christian Christianity tries to sell it differently.

4:35 We all continue to sin on a regular and consistent basis. Remember my two major dogmatic points I keep making. No one can keep the law of God Christian or non Christian. Therefore we are in a perpetual state of sin. Well, Christianity tries to offer some solution or some explanation to why we continue to sin. Well, this book Six Secrets of the Christian Life put forth really this hypothesis. Number one, the Christian body is dead. The Christian body is dead. Your physical body is dead. Spiritually, the nature and heart inside of you is completely changed. So inside is completely changed.

5:27 But your body is dead. So now here's the problem. The body, the physical body can't respond to that new nature, that new nature, that new heart. The body can't respond to it. So on the inside, there's like I want to live for God, but the body is just like not going to respond, not going to do anything, because it cannot respond to this all the new spiritual aspects of you inside. So a resurrection of the body must occur. Now, not looking to resurrection of the body and eternity, but a resurrection of the body. Right now, some kind of resurrection must happen so that the body then can be alive to the spiritual nature. And then therefore they're in perfect harmony. And then well, I guess you can go forth and be perfect. So then how do we get this resurrection to occur? While the book offered us the solution of well, put a mirror in front of that body, right, and that mirror is the word of God. And if we look into the word of God, then supposedly that mirror, well, they kind of backtracked. It doesn't really resurrect the body, but it will start slowly resurrecting the body, I guess, a little bit at a time. So then the body becomes a little bit more responsive to the new nature. Well, then that's not really a resurrection, right, I mean, how can a body be five percent resurrected or ten percent resurrected.

7:00 It makes literally no sense. So we weren't really happy with them, so I was going to go to the next chapter and figure out what they was. What was the next secret of the Christian life. We've been working on Romans eight ten through eleven, which is where this all started, because Romans eight ten says and if and if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin. That that's kind of really the verse that sparked all of this. So I'm like, well, we've already done some sermon reviews on Romans eight ten through eleven. I don't know if I want to do another one because those are ending with me so frustrated that I'm literally I'm going to drive past the liquor store to rehab because I can't take this anymore. It's contradictory, it's confusing, it's discombobulated, it's just a mess, right, And I guess nobody seems to be bothered by it, because we listen to these sermons and everybody's like, amen, Amen, I'm like, what are you amening? It literally makes no sense, But it seems that the circular reasoning is this, We've been completely transformed we've been completely changed, We're a new creature in Christ. Yet, well, we still sin, and we still have to fight sin, and we still have to overcome sin even though we're completely transformed. If we're completely transformed, I don't know what we're fighting, and I don't know I don't know where sin is coming from. Nobody seems to be able to offer any reasonable explanation other than throwing out a lot of words. So I thought, well, let's do this. Let's grab a knife. Let's cut open Christians and see what we actually find on the inside.

8:32 What is the inside makeup of a believer? Right? I mean, sometimes you have to do exploratory surgery, right, Hey, we got to get in there and look around and try to find out what's going on because we can't figure this out right, all of these external things are not helping us. We need to get inside of you to see if we can figure it out. Well, we need to do a little exploratory surgery on you as a Christian? Is a Christian? And what do we find on the inside. If we can figure out the inside, maybe we can figure out why we keep sinning, and then what can or cannot be done about it? So the internal makeup of a believer. That's the question. What happens to the old nature or new heart after conversion is a crucial and often debated aspect of Christian theology. Let me state this again, new heart, new nature, old nature, old heart, What happens to all of that after conversion? I want to make sure this is very I cannot state this clearly enough. This is an often debated aspect of Christian theology.

9:49 Whether you like it or not, Christians do not agree. I know this is going to be shocking, but you just need to write this down. Christians do not even agree to what happens inside of a Christian ad conversion. There's not even agreement on it. Yet everyone walks around being so dogmatic this and this, and like, well wait, they don't agree and they don't agree, and they don't agree, and they don't agree and they don't agree. Well why can't If it's so clear, then why is there no agreement? Maybe because no one really knows exactly what happens on the inside, even though everyone wants to quote a scripture as if they know. Different Christian traditions offer various ways to understand this. So we're gonna look at some kind of an overview of how many within Christian theology understand the internal makeup of a believer. We're gonna focus on terms like old nature, new heart, the heart, and the ongoing struggle with sin. All right, so let's just look at some of these typical kind of concepts. Let's go with two natures. We're gonna go with the two nature view.

11:07 So we're gonna take the knife. We're gonna cut someone open. We're gonna cut open a Christian, or we're gonna be like WHOA This Christian has two natures inside of them. They have the old and the new, both inside a believer. This is one of the most common frameworks in Christian theology. It is the idea that a believer has both an old and a new nature after conversion, and this is true after conversion, and this is based on the tension described in Scripture between the old sinful often called the flesh, and the new life in Christ often called the spirit or the new self. However, even though this is a common framework, Okay, every Christian has two natures. They have the old and new. So if you're a Christian, you have two things working on inside of you. So inside of you you're almost schizophrenic. There is a complete duality, a dichotomy working inside of you. You become a believer, and now all of a sudden, you got something going on inside of you that it's gonna be hard to even explain. You got two things fighting against each other literally inside one person. But here's what's crazy. Even though that's the common framework, these two natures are typically understood in various different ways, depending on your stream of theology.

12:38 So the basic framework is that all Christians have two natures. How this is understood though, Well, there's lots of different ways of approaching this, all right, So we have old nature, sometimes referred to as the flesh, right, the old nature or flesh. This is typically under understood as the sinful nature a person possesses prior to their conversion. It represents the inclination to sin, rebellion against God, and living according to one's desires apart from God. This is sometimes called the fallen nature or sin nature. Many believe Romans six ' six refers to the old self as being crucified with Christ, suggesting that the old nature's rule of dominion over a believer is broken. However, Christians are still worned not to live according to the flesh, indicating that while the power of the old nature has been decisively broken, its influence remains. Now that is what do you do with that? Now? See, I can say that if I just preach that in a dogmatic, assertive way, Christians will be like, well, amen, Amen, that makes sense. It makes literally no sense. Let me try to describe this again.

14:00 So typically, the sinful nature is what you have prior to conversion, right, and it represents the nation to sin, rebellion against God, living according to one's desires. This is called the fallen nature or the sin nature. Now, according to some, Roman sixty six refers to the old self as being crucified, suggesting that the old nature's rule or dominion over a believer is broken. Now just think about this logically, if the old nature's rule and dominion has been broken, then why can't you get to perfection? If the old nature is the thing keeping me from perfection, then ladies and gentlemen, the old nature is still It's still dominant, It's still the most powerful thing in me.

14:54 If I cannot get to perfection, what is stopping me? Now? If you claim that the old nature has been and that the old nature has been broken, it's been somehow defeated. Well, then no, that makes no sense, because then there would be nothing stopping me from getting to perfection. There's something stopping us from getting to perfection. There is something causing you and I to sin. Every single day, twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. You and I sin. We cannot keep the law, are a We are in a constant state of sin. So what is stopping you? If the old nature has been crucified and the old and the dominion of the old nature has been broken, then you should be able to be perfect. Now, what this tries to do is offer kind of like well, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Christians are still worn not to live according to the flesh, indicating that while the power of the old nature has been decisively broken, its influence remains. So it's just the influence of the old nature. Wait, the old nature is crucified, but the influence is there. So now go back to our kind of like little you know scenario that I keep going back to. All right, all right, headquarters, I've cut open it to the body. There's well, it looks like there was two natures, but it looks like one is gone, but the influence of it is still there.

16:22 What then, the nature has been crucified, the dominion has been broken, but the influence. What is the end? If the nature is gone, if the nature has been crucified, if the nature's dominion has been broken, what is the influence left over? Is it? The leftover? Is there? Is it the residual leftover of the old nature? So in this case, you really wouldn't have two natures. You would be telling me the old nature has been removed, but there's the residue, there's the leftover. We have a little bit of leftover in me, right, I mean the new nature is now dominant, but the old nature is just the left What does it even mean? And again I would say, it's got to be more than just the leftover influence. If I cannot get to perfection, what is stopping me from perfection? What is stopping me from obeying simple laws like be holy as God is holy? Whatever is stopping me from that? And simple is simply that it's easy to understand, obviously not easy to do, because no one can. Whatever stops me from that fulfillment of that law is dominant. It's not just the influence. It's dominant.

17:39 And to say otherwise it's just ridiculous, and you're confusing anyone in it who's trying to understand it. Romans seven eighteen through twenty five. Paul describes the battle between wanting to do good but filling the pool of sin, which seems to suggest that even after becoming a Christian, the old nick you're still wages war against the believer. Well, how can the old nature be waging war against the believer? If supposedly, according to some the old nature has been completely crucified and its dominion has been broken, it sounds like it could not wage much of a war. But obviously it can wage war to such a point that I can't get to perfection, which would mean it's winning if the sinful nature still remains. If you're gonna say there's two natures, but then you're gonna try to argue that the one nature really doesn't exist, it's just the residue of it. But then at the same time you're going to say that nature is the thing keeping me from perfection. Well, then, ladies and gentlemen, it's it's the dominant power. Inside of me. If I cannot be sinless and the reason I can and the reason I cannot be sinless is because of what's inside of me, then the thing inside of me keeping me from sinlessness is the dominant power. Just logic? Would Dick take that? So this is the way. You have two natures. But one of the natures is supposedly weakened and dominion broken. But

19:17 it doesn't help us in any way, shape or form. I don't even know what to do with that. Now, the new nature, the new nature, according to this is the regenerated self that is created in the likeness of Christ. It is empowered by the Holy Spirit. This is often described as the believer's new identity, united with Christ and empowered to live a holy life. Now just think about this. Now, wait a minute. So we supposedly have two natures. One of the natures is basically completely defeated. The new nature is created in the likeness of Christ and empowered by God himself. This has described as the believer's new identity, united with Christ and empowered to live a holy life.

20:00 If I'm being empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a holy life, then then I should be able to fulfill the law that says, be holy as He is Holy. So now this makes literally So now we've cut open at least one of the three hundred dead bodies. And this makes no sense. I literally makes no sense. Well, you have a new nature empowered by the Holy Spirit itself. That the nature is created in the likeness of Christ. So you've got a completely perfect nature that's literally empowered by God. But you cannot get to the level of obeying God's law because God's law starts with be holy as He is holy. Love Him with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. Love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemy, turn the other you're done. And even early Church, remember even the early Church, all of their confessions of sin. Right, let me just go too, Let me just read one.

21:01 Here we go. Here's an early confession of sin that's still in some liturgies. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just, we'll forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Most merciful God, we confess that we are in bondage to sin. And cannot free ourselves. That is literally what is said in some liturgies by Christians every Sunday, we confess that we are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against You and thought, word and deed. By what we have done and by what we have left undone, we have not loved you with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves.

21:45 For the sake of your son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. The early Church knew that we're continually in sin. But wait a minute. I supposedly have a new nature that's created in the likeness of Christ, and it's empowered by God. But I have to continue to confess every single day that I'm a sinner. Wait a minute, something isn't making sense. Well, then some people say, well, because the residue or the leftover of the old nature is stopping you. Well, that makes no sense, because the new nature is empowered by God. So couldn't the new nature overpower the leftover of the old nature. And then, of course this view would say, if anyone is in Christ, he's a new creature, the oldest passed away. Behold the new has come. Well, if that is true, if anyone is in Christ as a new creature, the old has passed away. Behold, everything has become new. There would be nothing left of the old nature. You can't quote Tewod Corinthians five point seventeen and say everything is all the oldest gone and everything is new, but still try to make some argument that the residue or the leftover, or that the influence of the old nature still remains. It can't remain. If everything has been made new and the old is completely gone. And if everything has been made new and everything and the old is completely gone, then perfection is not only probable, it's possible. It should be expected.

23:24 This points to the profound change and identity when someone becomes a believer. The new nature gives believers a new set of desires and empowers them to live for God. Well, if the new nature gives me a new set of desires and empowers me to live for God, then it would be a complete set of new desires, and there would be no old desires left over. Because you just quoted Second Corinthians saying that the old is gone and everything is new, So you can't quote a verse It says, if you're in Christ, you're a new creature. The old has passed away and all things have become new. And yet still argue that the old is somehow present. Either everything is new or it's not. Now I will argue Second Corinthians five seventeen is referring to the truth of my position has nothing to do with what's going on inside of me, or has nothing to do with my practical life. So already we have a con we have just this weird contradiction. Well, we have two natures. But the Old is not really a nature. I mean, it's been crucified, its dominion has been broken, but its influence remains.

24:30 So according to this, what you see when you cut open the body is we have a new nature. It's perfect. It's powered. I mean that thing is. That thing is perfect. So if I go back to my analogy, Hey, headquarters, we just cut open another body. We found this one. It's got a new nature. And man, this thing is powered by God itself. It is perfect, it is holy, it is it's amazing. Well why isn't the body Why isn't this person operating correctly? Well we don't know why, but the nature is perfect. Remember the book The Six Secrets, try to argue, while the nature is that the body is still so the issue is the body. Well okay, but this, this whole view is just so confusing. So you have two natures, but reality, you only have one nature.

25:16 You just have the residue of the old nature. But how can you have the residue of the old nature? Was Supposedly, if I'm in Christ, I'm a new creature, the oldest pastway, all things have become new. This, just this one makes literally no sense. Paul exhorts exhorts believers to put off your old self and to put on the new self created after the likeness of God and righteousness and holiness. Now what am I putting off? And what am I putting on? If everything inside has already been transformed? This shows that the new nature is not only given at conversion, but it is something that believers must actively live out. It still makes what am I putting off? There would be nothing to put off, because supposedly I'm a new creature and the oldest gone. See, even in these explanations, you'll find yourself totally baffled. Hey, you're a new creature. The old is gone. But wait, wait wait, you got to put off the old? Well what am I putting off? I thought the old was completely gone? Well, I mean it's not really gone. You've got to put it off. Well I thought I was being So is it done or is it not done?

26:13 Nobody really has a clue. Everyone just says whatever they want. So we have kind of two natures, but really one nature, but yet the old nature is still somehow. There you go figure that out. I don't even know. You draw a diagram trying to explain that two natures, but one is broken and beaten down. The other one is dominant, powerful and then control. Yet Christians cannot be perfect. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. All right, I don't even get that now. The tensions between the two natures.

26:53 Most Christian traditions affirm that even though believers receive a new nature, the old nature is not entirely eradicated and this life. This results in an ongoing internal struggle between the old nature and the new nature. This is the source of the Christian battle against sin. So see this one is like, hey, you've got a new nature. It's perfect, it's powered by God. You're a new creation. Old has passed away. But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, the old nature has not been eradicated. Well wait a minute, I thought you said it was crucified. I thought you said it was. So is it there? Is it not there? Well? Why do they have to somehow not completely? They can't completely kick out the old nature because if they do, they're going to have a hard time explaining sin. So in some ways they speak as if it's gone, but they will always revert back to bringing it back because they've got to explain why sin is continuing to happen. The whole thing just gets confusing.

27:47 It says, for the desires of the flesh or against the spirit, and the desires of the spirit or against the flesh, For these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Well, if the flesh is keeping me from doing the things I want to do, then the flesh is more powerful than the spirit. In many Christian and many Christian views, the old nature no longer dominates the believer's life because they are in Christ, but it still exhorts an influence. The new nature enables the believer to fight against sin and growing holiness, even though perfection is not attained in this life. See, even the description makes no sense. Wait, so the old nature is still there, right, It's still there, okay, but it no longer dominates. It no longer dominates. Listen to this just paragraph. The old nature no longer dominates the believer's life because they are in Christ, but it still exhorts an influence. The new nature enables believers to fight against sin, grow in holiness even though perfection is not attained in this life. The old nature's dominance is gone, but yet you can't attain perfection. Whatever is keeping me from perfection is the dominant power. So what's keeping me from perfection? The old nature or God doesn't want me to be perfect? See if you see, the old nature's dominance is broken, and the old nature has been crucified.

29:21 And you're speaking of this in practical terms, Well, then, ladies and gentlemen, you can't blame the old nature for you not being perfect? Huh? All right? If it's not the old nature then, and that would mean the new nature is in control and it's powered by God. Yet I cannot get to perfection. That would mean God doesn't want me to get to perfection. You're kind of you're kind of trapped here, right, So there's the two nature view, and those are the ones about nature. Now, in Christian theology, the heart and biblical terms, is often seen as the center of a person being, encompassing the center of a person's being, encompassing the mind, will, emotions, and desires. In conversion, many Christians believe there was a profound change in the heart.

30:20 Here are two different views emerged. Here are here too, different views emerge about what happens to the old and new heart. So we've got the two natures. But then we have the idea of I guess two hearts. So again, I've brought this question up a million times. Is the nature and the heart different? Hey? Hey, headquarters, this is patrol one. Okay, I moved on to another body. This is getting really bizarre, Headquarters. I've cut this body open. I've got an old nature, a new nature, an old heart, a new heart. I got four things inside one body. So do we have four things? Now? Supposedly the two nature view is that, well, the old nature is really kind of not there, but the influence is there. Okay, So now do I have two hearts? Isn't the heart and the nature synonymous, or do you completely divide them the old heart. In the Old Testament, the heart is often described as hard and deceitful Jeremiah seventeen nine. The heart is deceitful above all things, is desperately wicked, desperately sick, and who can understand it. This is the state of a person's heart before conversion, rebellious, sinful, and inclined away from God. So most people say, hey, that old heart, that wicked heart, you don't have that. That's before you were saved. Your heart was desperately wicked and deceitful above all that. But somehow, magically you don't have that anymore.

31:52 At conversion. Many Christians believe God gives believers a new heart and fulfillment of Old Testament promises like easy Uel thirty six, where God says, I will give you a new heart and a new spirit wall put within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. Now immediately, I already get ticked off. Ezekiel thirty six is not about you. It's not about me. Ezekiel thirty six. Go through the chapter. It says Israel, Israel Israel, Israel, Israel. And then it says when they get a new heart, immediately after they will be brought into the land that was promised to their fathers. That is not you, That is Israel. So stop quoting Ezekuel thirty six about you getting a new heart. It has nothing to do with you.

32:38 It's about Israel. When they will be restored, they will be regenerated, they will be saved, and they will be brought into the land that was promised to them. If we can get Ezekiel thirty six right, then I give up a chapter that says Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, over and over, and even make sure you understand which Israel is referring to, because it's it says, the land that I gave to your fathers, that's the nation of Israel. It's not the Church. The new heart supposedly represents the transformation of a person's inner being with new desires that are inclined towards God. This new heart is a sign of regeneration, the Holy Spirit's work of spiritual life to a person who was spiritually dead. So supposedly, again with this view, is hey, before you were saved, you had two hearts or no, I'm sorry. Before you were saved, you had one heart. It was old, and it was dead, and it was corrupt, and it was deceitful, and it was wicked. But in salvation God took out the old heart.

33:37 So now you only have one heart. So I only have one heart that's completely a heart alive to God, completely new. It's not deceitful, it's not wicked. Well, then where is all the sin that comes from within me coming from because Jesus seems to state that sin comes from the heart. But if I have a new heart, there would be no sin inside of me. So what happens to the old heart? Well, now there's going to be lots of different views here, and the reformed view the old nature is defeated, but not entirely eradicated. It continues to exert influence even though the believer now has a new nature empowered by the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is the is progressive process of putting to death the old nature's influence while growing in the new nature. Now seeing now, immediately this gets confusing because now we went from heart back to nature. Well, wait, is it the heart or is it the nature? Or is heartened nature just saying the same thing. Now, I think there's no way to separate heartened nature. I think heart and nature are the same thing. They're synonymous. Right, there's no way we have an old nature, new nature, an old heart new heart. No, all right, no, So this is where it gets confusing.

35:04 So basically you have a new heart slash new nature. But somehow there's something left of the old And so then the way we get the way Christians get around it, they think they sound so smart. See, it's just we have to continue to fight against the influence of the old nature. We're completely new. Well, if I'm completely new, there would be no influence left of the old nature. So am I completely new? Am I not completely new? And again, if the new nature is just or if the old nature is just there just to have some influence, Well, that influence is strong enough to keep me from perfection, meaning the old nature is stronger than the new nature.

35:49 That the old heart is stronger than the new heart, even if it's been defeated, it's still stronger because it's keeping me from perfection. The believer, this is more the reform view. Positionally, we are sanctified in Christ, meaning that we are fully sanctified in God's sight, but practically we must grow in holiness through their life. The old nature remains a source of temptation, but is no longer the dominant power. Again, this makes no sense. Every Christian wants to say, the old nature has been defeated, the old Nature's dominion has been broken, but you cannot reach perfection. What keeps me from perfection is dominant by any logical understanding.

36:41 The Lutheran view. Lutherans hold that the old nature is still present, but no longer reigns. Luther described the Christian as at the same time being righteous and a sinner. The believer is fully righteous because of their union with Christ, but they still zes sinful tendencies and a fallen nature that won't be fully eradicated until glorification. Now, Luther goes on to say, hey, you still have a fallen nature. It's still there. It's just not the influence. The nature is still there, all right, I completely, I definitely, there's no way you're gonna tell me the old nature is gone in any way shape perform. Here's what I will be.

37:21 I will just dogmatically this is a line in the sin. I will not compromise on. We not only have an old nature, it is dominant. The old nature is not broken, the old nature is not defeated. Because it keeps you from perfection. The only way to argue with me is to show me you can be perfect. And if you can't be perfect, what's keeping you from that perfection? Well, you can try to use all the terminology you want, but the end result is because there's still sin, and that sin is dominant because it's keeping you from obeying God's law. Just be holy as God is holy. I can't Why can't you? I will say, because the call is coming from inside the house, because Jesus said it is from the heart that comes adultery, fornication, coveteousness, it's from the heart. If those things still show up in our lives, whether in thought, word or deed, by desire internally externally, then it's because it's still inside of us, and it's still inside of us. And if we can't get to perfection, what is inside that's sinful is dominant because it won't let you keep the law perfectly. There is no other way to describe it that makes any sense.

38:39 The believer's heart is transformed, but they are still at war with the old man or sinful nature. Now this gets even more confused. All right, so the heart is new, but we're at war with the old man or the sinful nature. So is this drawing a distinction between heart and nature? Now we're right back to this problem. Is the heart and the nature the same are different? Now this would be like, okay, well, okay, the old heart is completely gone and I have a completely new heart, but the old nature remains. So now it's a battle between a new heart and the old nature. Well, even if you describe it that way, the old nature is obviously more powerful than the new heart because you can't get to perfection. Sanctification is seen as a lifelong process, and the Christian life is one of daily repentance and renewal.

39:33 Does that help you at all? Well, right back to the same thing. So do we have a new heart old heart? Is? Do we have two hearts? Do we have two natures? Nobody can even come close to trying to give us a picture that makes any sense? How about the Wesleyan or many in view? In Wesleyan theology, there is an emphasis on Christian perfection or entire sanctification. The old nature is believed to be weak and progressively overcome through sanctification, while sin remains in some form. It is possible for believers to grow to a point of entire consecration to God where the influence of the old nature is minimized, though not completely eradicated in this life.

40:18 So even in the so called view of Christian perfection, they still have to leave the door open to say, well, well, sin is not completely eradicated. I mean, you can be entirely consecrated, but we've got to still make an allowance for some sin. No matter the view, they all have to say, well, you can't get to complete perfection. I mean, even if we call it Christian perfectionism, we still got to say, well, there can be a little sin still left everyone, no matter their theologists, to say, well, sin is still going to be there. Sin is going to still be there, while at the very same time saying you're a new creature in Christ, the oldest gone, everything is new. Well, at the same time saying the old nature has been defeated and it's this dominion broken. But b B B buy, but they're still going to be sin and you still can't get to perfection. It's such nonsense.

41:11 It's just doubles why every Christian who goes to church should be like, I know this makes no sense, but no, no, no, you sit there, you say amen, you go home, and you try to figure it out, and at some point you just go along with what you've been told. You're not thinking it, you're not trying to figure it out, you're not struggling with it. Some Christians do, and they're the ones who usually come to the end of their rope. And just in Christianity doesn't work, and I can see why they're within. Christianity doesn't work because it makes literally no sense. According to the Wesleyan view, the heart is transformed through regeneration and further sanctified through the process of growth and holiness. So they don't really get into do we have two hearts? Do we have two natures? All the other views that somehow we either have we have two natures, but one is kind of broken. We have a completely new heart, but the old heart seems to be completely gone. But some will say, well, you have a new heart, but the old nature is still there.

42:13 So I don't do you have two hearts two natures? Do you have one heart? One old name. How does it work? Nobody knows. So to sum up the typical Christian understanding of the internal makeup of a believer, this is the basic teaching the old nature slash flesh. This is the sinful, fallen nature that dominated a person's life before conversion. After conversion, it no longer rules over the believer, but its influence remains, creating an ongoing struggle with sin. All right, So the idea is, according to at least most, the old nature no longer rules. The old nature no longer rules, but it's still there to influence. So the old nature is not there anymore. The influence remains. It does not rule, it does not have dominion, and of course then they're gonna do double speak. Yet you can't be perfect. The new nature is the new self created in the likeness of Christ, given to the believer of conversion.

43:16 It is empowered by the Holy Spirit pursue holiness and godliness. So you have a comp You supposedly have a new nature that's in the likeness of Christ, that is empowered by God himself. But you can't get to perfection. So the old nature is weakened. It's just an influence Okay, it doesn't rule, it doesn't have dominion. You've got a new nature created in the likeness of Christ, empowered by God himself, but you still can't get to perfection. Do you see how, just utterly look, anybody listening to this would be like your system is sounds like you don't even know what you're talking about. It sounds like you're just making up stuff. The heart is often seen as a transform is often seen as being transformed at conversion, where God gives believers a new heart with a new desire for holiness and obedience. Now just please note, okay, we still haven't figured out the nature thing. But even if you are struggling with the nature, this is where things get confusing. If you've been given a new heart with completely new desires, right, with completely new desires, and you desire nothing but holiness, and you desire nothing but obedience, that's your very desire. If your very desire is that, then why you can't say, well, well, the problem with you being perfect is you don't desire it. No, if you've got a new heart that gives you new desires,

44:46 your desires are perfect. Every single one of your desires should be perfect. You should have no corrupt desires, There should be no sinful desires inside of you. But yet we know that's not true. So then how can you tell me I've got a new heart with new desires when I still have the old desires? Where are the old desires coming from? Now? This is where they say, but what remains is the old nature. Well wait a minute, so I have so now that almost inevitably we go with a new heart, but the old nature. But they already said that the old nature has been crucified, that the old nature is no longer in charge. So if the old nature is no longer in charge, shouldn't the new nature, with its new desires overcome the old nature.

45:35 The Christian life is characterized by an ongoing struggle between the old and new nature. So now it's going back to that. The struggle is between the two natures. The old nature continues to tempt believers, but the new Man, the new nature, through the Spirit, gives the believer the ability to resist sin and grow in holiness. Now just listen to that, the new nature gives you the ability to resist sin. Well, if the new nature is given me ability to resist sin, then I should be perfect. But yet countless times, what are we told you can't be perfect? Then I don't have the ability. If you tell me I have the ability to keep the law, then I then perfection. And then then what would stop me?

46:21 If I have the ability and I have a new heart giving me new desires, then perfection is it's it would be instantaneous. I now have ability, and I now have a desire. The desire is to be perfect, and the ability is that you can be perfect. Therefore you should be perfect. There should be no struggle, There should be no sin, there should be no failure, there should be no anything now. According to the Source, the internal makeup of a believer is complex and reflects the ongoing tension between the old nature and the new nature. Well believers are new creations in Christ with a new heart, they still experience the influence of the old nature and must engage in a lifelong battle against sin. Different traditions emphasizes different aspects of the internal struggle, but all agree that full perfection, the eradication of the old nature, will only be achieved in glorification. So every tradition agrees that you cannot get to true perfection, and some sin will remain your entire life. Men, this is Patrol one headquarters.

47:50 Please come in. This is headquarters. Go ahead, Patrol one. Yeah, we've cut open all three hundred of these bodies, and we don't have a clue. We don't know. We don't know. If we're seeing two natures, we're not seeing. If we're seeing two hearts, we're not seeing anything. But the one thing we are seeing is we don't know how to define it because nobody seems to want to agree on how to define it. But there is something inside these bodies. There is something inside of these bodies that will keep these bodies from following God perfectly. There is something inside these bodies that will keep them from perfection, that will not allow them to obey the law. So these bodies, even if they're animated, even if they're responding, they're not going to be perfect. They're going to live a life of sin. What is it inside of us that will that is controlling us? Whatever is inside of if you can't get to perfection, it controls Look, I'm gonna be I'm gonna make another dog. I'm gonna make another dogmatic so you can write these three down. Number one, We cannot keep God's law, saved or unsaved. Therefore we are in a perpetual state of sin. What keeps us from obeying the law. What keeps us and a perpetual state of sin is the dominant power and force in your life.

49:23 There is no way to get around that. You can't say. Well, you've got a new nature that is empowered by God himself. You have new desires. Everything about that new nature is perfect and right. You desire God. Everything is perfect. Well, then you should be perfect. Well, no, there's something stopping you. What's stopping me? Well, it's however you want to define it. It's the residue of the old nature. It's the influence of the old nature. It's the old whatever you wanted to say. It is whatever, whatever this mysterious thing is that's inside of us. It is in control, it is dominating. You say no, no, no, no, no no, it's lost its control. It's lost its dominance. Then you should be perfect.

50:11 What keeps you from perfection is in control. So number one, you cannot keep the law of God perfectly. Therefore number two, you're in a perpetual state of sin. So number three, what keeps you from keeping the law? What keeps you from perfection is the dominant power, the dominant influence in your life. So what is the hope. There's only one hope.

50:53 The hope is not overcoming sin in my life. The hope is not becoming more godly in my life, because no matter how much I supposedly overcome, no matter how much I supposedly accomplish, it's still going to be sin, sin, sin. I can brag that I'm overcoming that sinner, that's sin, but I still have sin. It's sin. It may not be your sin, it may not be that sin, but their sin. The person broadcast, the person hosting this podcast is a sinner. I am in a perpetual state of sin twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. And you can act like you're not, but trust me, you are as well. So then what's our only hope. Our only hope is that is to continue to break us and humble us so that we flee to only one place there's any hope, and that is the imputed righteousness of Christ. That is where we rest, and that's where we stand, and in Christ Jesus, in Christ, I am righteous, positionally, I am justified, and I am sanctified perfectly in Christ. That is called positional justification, positional sanctification. Practically, I am a sinner, and whatever sanctification you want to talk about, it's just literally you can you can describe sanctification any it's progressive, whatever, you know what it is.

52:09 It's just just moving sin around. Well, I don't commit that sin, but I commit that said. Ok, I'm gonna work on that sin, but I'm still committing that sin. You can just you're just moving. You're just moving chairs around on the deck of the Titanic. You're still going down because you're going By the end of the day, you're you know what you're gonna be saying. But the end of the day, this is what you're gonna be saying. Oh Lord, oh Lord, no day of my life has passed that has not proven me guilty in your sight. All things in me call for my rejection, All things in you call for my acceptance. Grant me to hear your voice assuring me that your stripes I am healed, that you are bruised for my iniquities, that you have been made sin for me, that I might be righteousness in you, That my grievous sins, many sins, are all forgiven, buried in the ocean of your concealing blood. Every day you have to acknowledge your sin, your grievous sin, your many sins, because you are guilty today just like you were yesterday, and you're gonna be guilty tonight, just like you are right now. No matter how many sins you confess, no matter how many goals you set, no matter how discipline you tried to be, You're going to sin. And if I continue to sin continually, then stop this nonsense that, oh, inside you've been completely transformed and inside you are a new creature and the oldest gone. Well, if that is true, then there should be no sin to fight against now.

53:40 Positionally I am a new creature, perfect Holy So number one, you cannot keep the law. Number two. That means you're in a perpetual state of sin. Number three, what's keeping you from perfection is the dominant power. This is Patrol one. Headquarters. Come in, go ahead, headquarters. Hey, I'm putting the knife away.

54:23 I'm leaving. I don't get it. I don't understand. I just know that there's something inside these bodies that's keeping them from obeying God. And it seems like nobody wants to admit it, nobody wants to acknowledge it, and they all want to create some fairy tale version that denies the very reality that we all know we live. God bless