Ignorance and Heresy

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Good evening everyone. It is Thursday, October tenth, twenty twenty four. It is currently six ten pm Central Time, and I am coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. When I played the intro, there was the volume down a little bit. Was the volume down a little bit? You know why? Because the volume was down. So I'm just going to do it again just to make me feel better. Right, It probably is of no value to you, but it'll just be in my brain right the whole time.

0:43 I'll be like, wait, I've got. To go back and listen to the intro to see if it was loud enough, because I think the volume was down way too much. Say, this is one of the negative things about me not monitoring the sound when I'm broadcasting. You know, most podcasters have headphones on, and I just know there's no way I'm going to sit there. We're headphones the entire time. No, so, so I don't hear the sound of well so, but let's we got to fix it. Right. So here we go, looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Good evening, everyone, Yeah, welcome, Hey, I'm back. Oh it's still Thursday, October tenth, twenty twenty four. It is now six eleven pm Central time, and I'm still coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And you can hear in the background, everyone in the entire neighborhood at the exact same time have went to their garage, grabbed their lawnmower, and went outside to mow their yard. Everyone in the neighborhood at the exact same time. It is a conspiracy. Ladies in just they monitor this broadcast and they do not want you to hear it. They don't want the truth to be known. They're working with the Illuminati. They're Reptilians, they're Satan. Okay, all right, Well, I mean there are all mowing their yards.

2:15 But the rest of that is not true in any way, shape or form. But here we are. I hope that what we're about to do will be a little bit more beneficial than that entire introduction and starting it over and all of that. Hopefully none of that will distract you too much from what we need to do. But what we need to do is, well, we've got to continue what we were talking about earlier. Now here's a very important lesson I want everyone to take from this. All right. I've tried throughout the entire year of twenty twenty four to get everyone to download the sermons two point oh app and listen to one sermon per day randomly choose random sermons and then have and write them down in a notebook and then write down a little summary about what the sermon was about.

2:56 And by the end of the year, you'll. Have one sermon for every one sermon per day for the entire year. Yes, I can't speak correctly sometimes, right, That was the goal and one of the things I really wanted people to try to understand. And I think some of you understand this. I don't know if everyone does. Is that I don't care if the sermon is good. I don't care if this sermon is bad. I don't care if you agree with it. I don't care if you disagree with it. If you're willing to put forth a little bit of effort, you can take any sermon. For the most part, there's always exceptions, but for the most part, you can take it and do something with it. You can you can turn it into something very beneficial, very productive. And I think a lot of people just kind of hear sermons and then they just move on.

3:44 They hear it, and then they're onto the next thing, right, They just they hear it and they move on. They don't really spend time with it, talking about it, discussing it, thinking about meditating on it, just working on it in all kinds of different ways. But when you do that, and I hopefully I've tried. My best to try to demonstrate that to you guys. I have done sermon reviews where you've heard me just get frustrated. Get irritated. I'm throwing pencils, books, I'm throwing anything I can find. I'm making claims that I'm going to the liquor store, like all of those things. But then what happens, almost inevitably, not in every single case, but what happens the next day, maybe even a few hours later. I turned the microphone on, and what do I do? All Right, that sermon was about this, Well, let's work on it. Let's work on it, and so we may take their hypotheses, and then we may just do hour after hour after hour. Sometimes four or five hours of teaching may come from one sermon, and it may even be a sermon that I completely disagreed with. And it's not that I'm spending five hours to prove their hypotheses wrong. In many cases, we abandon their hypotheses and then we spend four or five hours doing our own work on the passage of scripture. And I hope you if you don't get anything from twenty twenty four, hopefully you've learned that is that you can grab the sermon's two point. Oh, Ap've just hit any sermon randomly, and if you'll just listen, think, take a few notes. You've got stuff to work on all day.

5:14 But what I have noticed is that many Christians don't do a lot of discussing the sermons. I noticed that, even going way back when I was young, you would have church and then you'd have some pot luck, and nobody's talking about the sermons. Nobody's discussing the sermon, talking asking questions. Everyone's just moved on talking, And I'm like, well, didn't we just hear a sermon? Why is no one discussing the sermon that we just heard, Like I would think, sermons should bring forth discussion and thinking and meditating and just adding to it. Now, I know not obviously, we know as human beings we are very moody, right, and so sometimes our mood will be to discuss it. Sometimes our mood will just be to forget it. But I'm saying that I can't say a majority of the time, but a lot of the time sermons should incite to some le will motivate discussion. So earlier today we did a broadcast about Biblical ignorance, and it was on a sermon entitled the Dangers of Biblical Ignorance, all right, and so we reviewed part of that sermon. We reviewed a lot of it. I'm going to be returning to some of it here in just a minute.

6:28 But it was. Based on Hosea chapter four, verse six. Hosea chapter four verse six, where we read these words, Are you ready here we go? Hosea chapter four verse six. If you can open a Bible and look there, that would be great. Hosea chapter four, verse six. We read these words. We read these words, my people, right now, this is God speaking to Israel. I think for the most part of the Northern Kingdom. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, because thou hast rejected knowledge. I will so reject thee that thou shalt be no priest to me. Seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Well, the sermon that we listened to took a.

7:15 Kind of a very dog They made a very dogmatic assertion which was really the thesis of the entire sermon. And the thesis was this that Israel walked away from God due to their ignorance. Of God's word. And the idea basically was, if we're ignorant of God's word, if there's ignorance in us of God's word, we too could be in danger of walking away from God. And I challenged that hypothesis almost immediately. I'm like, I don't know if this is about ignorance of God's word. I think this is more about rejecting God's word. Now look at the verse carefully and see if you think this is about ignorance or about something else.

8:00 Look at it. My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge because thou hast rejected knowledge. I don't think that they were ignorant. Of it, or they didn't know it, or they hadn't heard it, or they hadn't been taught it. I think the issue was. They had heard, they had been taught, It was available to them in many different ways, and they had rejected it. Let me see, I will also reject THEE, all right, So because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject THEE that thou shalt be no priest to me, seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God. See, it's not that they were ignorant of it.

8:41 They had, in a sense forgot forgotten the law by walking away from the law. But it wasn't because of ignorance, all right, So I really challenged that. In fact, some summaries of my perspective would be something like this. Hoseiah four to six. The lack of. Knowledge described in this verse stems not from ignorance and the sense of never having been taught or never knowing, but rather from a wilful rejection of the knowledge that they had been given. Israel had been taught God's law, and they had heard his commandments, but they chose to turn away from it. The rejection of the truth they had received is what led to their spiritual downfall. So I'm not the only one who holds to that perspective.

9:29 Others hold to the same perspective that I'm putting forth. My I'm challenging the way. The sermon went. The sermon basically was now at times he kind of he never really clarified. There was a lot of just kind of vagueness, like, hey, don't be ignorant of God's word. But I don't think they. Were ignorant of it. I think they rejected it. Now that means they didn't walk away because of ignorance. They walked away. They rejected it because of something else. See, if you put the blame on ignorance. Then this is basically the way it works. Any problem in your Christian life, any problem in anybody's Christian life, any sin, any so called walking away from God, is simply due to ignorance. So if you would just read your Bible more, memorize it more, then all of your spiritual problems would be fixed. And I think that's philologically incorrect. I don't think our problems with sin and walking away from God stems from our ignorance of scripture.

10:23 I think it stems from something inside of us. So here's more about kind of my perspective. Israel's departure from God's word was not due to ignorance or a lack of exposure to God's word, but rather something internal, whether it was pride, stubbornness, or a desire for autonomy that led them to reject what they knew to be true. This internal rebellion or spiritual hardening is what caused them to turn away from the relationship they had with God, despite having been taught and exposed to his comments and coven it. Their failure was rooted in an intentional rejection rather than a simple.

11:07 Lack of knowledge. And I really wanted to draw that distinction. This whole problem here doesn't like well, if they just were taught the. Word of God, all their problems would be resolved. No. I think they could have been taught and taught. Something else was driving their rejection of it. They were rejecting it, they were forgetting it, they were throwing it aside. It's not that they didn't know, It's not that they were ignorant, It's that they were rejecting it. What was leading to the rejection of it? I think what led to their rejection of it. The entire history of Israel is rejecting what God says. God tells them this, they rebel. It's not that they didn't know. Israel was told over and over and over and over, God sending prophets to them.

11:55 They had the law written. I mean, we can go on all the different things Israel had, and they rejected it, rejected. Why is Israel's history one of constantly rebelling and rejecting and walking away from God's word has nothing to do with ignorance. It has everything to do with the same problem you and I have, which is our internal sinful nature, which rebels against God's word. But I'm going to I'm going to add something to this. All right now, I know most Christians are about to disagree with me, all right. But are you ready? I'm going to make an. Argument that actually, the more we know, the more we know, the more we are exposed to God's word, the more we see and hear the word of God, actually it incites rebellion and almost incites sin. And I believe this aligns with some of the teachings of the apostle Paul, particularly in his Epistles.

13:00 Paul argues that knowing the law. Often actually increases the problem of sin rather than diminishing it. I want you to hear that again. Paul seems to argue that knowing the law often makes the problem of sin worse. It exasperates it. It almost makes it worse. Then diminish it, the way the Church constantly teaches. If they will just know the law, they will if we'll post the ten Commandments here, if we'll do this, then we will fix it. It exasperates the problem. It does not diminish the problem. Hearing the word of God does not diminish the problem. I think it actually creates.

13:42 More of a problem. Now. I know you've got some scripture that may you may try to argue against this, and I understand, but there is at least this is a theological discussion we at least need to have. From a biblical and philological perspective, it seems to be correct to suggest that people walk away from God purely. Okay, I'm sorry. From a biblical and theological perspective, it is incorrect. That's what I'm meant to say, to suggest that people walk away from God purely out of ignorance and Roman seven Paul specifically addresses the relationship between knowledge of the law and sin. And I'm going to reference Roman seven seven through eight. Roman seven seven through eight. What shall we say that the law is sin by no means? Yet, if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin, for I would not have known what it is to cove it if the law had not said you shall not cove it. But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment produced in me all kinds of coveteousness. Paul argues that the law reveals what sin is, but it also stirs up rebellious desires within people. The law acts as a mirror, showing us our sinful tendencies, but it also incites rebellion by providing clear boundaries that the sinful nature then desires to transgress.

15:12 The law incites, the word of God incites. It shows us what sin is, but then it will also do something. You want to break that. Come on, come on. I know it says don't touch, but touch. I know it says keep out, but you need to go in. I know it says don't, but you need to do. I know it says walk away, but you need to walk in. I know it says, don't look, but. You need to. You need to look for a very long time. I know it says, don't touch, oh, but you need to grab and hug it. Now. I know that that. I know immediately I'm gonna get all kinds of pushback here.

15:52 But I think that I'm standing on somewhat strong philological ground here, the Word of God and sits rebellion, because our sinful nature is stirred up by law, by rules, rules. And the sinful nature can just kind of be hanging out. So just picture the sinful nature laying back on a you know, on a nice cushioned you know, I don't know, some kind of beach chair, just kicked back, drinking a mixed drink with an umbrella in it. The sun is shining, you can hear the waves crashing on the beach, and and and our sin nature is just chilling, and everything's good. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden, it hears thou shalt not. It throws off its hat, throws down the mixed drink, hops up and says, what are you telling me not to do? Because I'm going Who cares about rest and relaxation? I'm ready to I'm ready to do it.

16:49 Now. I know the idea is that you know sin will keep you from the word of God, or the word of God will keep you from sin. I don't think I there there is. There is an aspect where I can understand that for a Christian the Word of God, and I think what the Word of God does is it shows us that it's sinful. And then if our minds have been changed to believe that the Bible is true, then we are confronted with this is what the Bible says. And I know it's a sin, I know it's wrong. But I think, then, but our my sinful nature, even though my mind may know it, my sinful nature. Now we get into do we draw a distinction between mind and nature? Oh boyd We're back to that thing, right. But there's a part of me that says, I may know it, but I want to do it. Paul argues that the law reveals what sin is, but it also stirs up rebellious desires within people. The law acts as a mirror showing us our sinful tendencies, but it also incites rebellion by providing clear boundaries that the sinful nature, that the sinful nature then.

17:53 Desires to transgress. So the law acts. As a mirror, but it incites rebel by providing clear boundaries that the sinful nature then desires to transgress. Now I know, look, you can go to a thousand churches and about nine hundred and ninety eight of these are not going to teach what I'm teaching right here. But I believe it's scriptural. I mean, it's right there in Romans seven. When we went through the Book of Romans, going verse by verse. We haven't finished it, but our work on the Book of Romans, what did we We discovered this, and it really goes against the entire Christian mindset. It's like if we post the Ten Commandments in the you know, in the park and city hall and in the classroom, we will stop sin.

18:36 No, you will just incite it. So I think that if. You say, well, hey, these people walked away with God from God because they did not know God's word, I will argue they will walk away from God knowing God's word, and they may walk even faster because it incites it. So then the issue is they didn't walk away because they didn't know that, walked away because they rejected but why did they reject it? Rejected Philologically, Theologically speaking, sin is more often framed as a rebellion rather than ignorance. Even in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, sin wasn't due to ignorance.

19:17 They knew God's command not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but they chose to disobey, and they didn't even have a sinful nature. Similarly, when we consider Israel's departure from God and Hoseiah, as we've discussed, it wasn't rooted in ignorance, but in a conscious rejection of God's ways. They had the knowledge of the law, but chose to follow their own path. The law, instead of leading them to greater obedience, revealed their sinful nature and led them into deeper rebellion. Now I know this is like some of you will be like, whoa wait a minute, this blows. This blows up everything I've ever been and taught as a Christian.

20:01 I know it does. I know it literally blows. Because it'll be like, we need to teach the kids and the church the Ten Commandments. We need it so that they'll grow up to be good little boys and girls. Know all you're going to do is in sight those little little vipers to do more rebellion. That's all you're going to do. So when you teach the Ten Commandments the kids, you have to say, look, you're going to want to do these things. You're going to break these things. What you need to be confronted with when you do this is to understand that you are sinning and that their only hope is in the finished work of Jesus Christ. We think it'll make them behave. Now it may work temporarily, depending on the age, but they'll come a time that the more of that law that they've heard, the more they're going to want to rebel against it, because that's what the sinful nature does. Throughout Scripture, human nature is shown to resist God's authority, the hardest, deceitful above all things, and desperately sick or desperate wicked who.

21:00 Can understand it. This internal inclination towards rebellion drives people away from God even when they know his commands. It is philologically consistent. To argue that people don't walk away from God due to ignorance alone. Instead, the Bible presents a deeper issue. The knowledge of God's law reveals and even incites sin when in turn motive, which in turn motivates rebellion. The law acts as a catalyst. For the sinful nature, exposing the heart's true inclinations. Walking away from God, therefore, is driven more by an internal resistance and rebellion than a lack of understanding. The understanding of the relationship between law and sin adds a layer of complexity to the human condition and our need for grace, as knowledge alone cannot bring about righteousness. Rather, it reveals our need for the Savior. Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say, but it says it much better than I did.

22:06 So my entire thing. When we come to Hebrews four six, it's like, hey, their entire, their entire idea that Israel simply walked away because of they didn't know. It's just not biblically true. They walked away because. Something was wrong inside of them, just like it's wrong inside of us. Our lack of knowledge is because of it's because of rejection. It's not that we did not know. Israel was taught the word over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, but they rejected it more and more and more and more. So what we have to always be aware of is the more I read my Bible, the more it may actually incite sin. What I have to do is be willing to acknowledge this. The more I read, the more I see my sin, the more I need to acknowledge how I'm being in sight, how my insides, how my nature is being motivated towards it.

23:04 I gotta be willing to acknowledge it and then be broken by it, and they be driven to the cross and then say, Okay, Lord, I need your forgiveness because I'm a sinner and thought word indeed by why I desire to do, and by everything inside of me, and. Just be willing to admit it. But I think Christians are not willing to admit. We have this very wrong conception of how this works. We think I'll just memorize these five verses and I'll stop sinning. You may memorize five verses that may actually incite sin, but you won't admit that. Now. Am I saying don't memorize scripture. I'm not saying that, because it's by knowing scripture that I am reminded that it is sin. See the scriptures are constantly saying, see, this is sin. So it's telling me what sin is, so that it destroys what I want sin to be.

23:55 Or not to be. Because what if I can. Determine what right and wrong is, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to be doing a lot of things tonight. Okay, So let's not I can't make that determination. God's word says it's a sin. Oh okay. I don't like that, all right, So I need God's word for that reason. Second, it shows me you're already guilty of it even though you haven't done anything. And hey, and then it also will demonstrate to me you really want to do it, much more than anybody else even knows. And then it will show me you need to run to Christ. Israel did not walk away because of a lack of knowledge is in a sense of being ignorant of it. They were destroyed.

24:35 Because they continue to rebel against it, and especially in a covenant relationship with God. Remember Israel's in a covenant relationship with God that said, if you do this, you get blessings. If you don't, you're gonna get the curses. In judgment, they got the curses, but God still maintain his all overall covenant with them, which is that one day they will be his people, He will be their God. They will get a new heart. Okay, he get into all of that from you know, study it from from the you know, a perspective of eschatology. But we won't go in there. So we I challenged this entire perspective, right, so we we covered that. I just wanted to double down on that. Okay, just stay with me, Stay with me all right. Now.

25:16 The next thing that he talked about, which was really weird in the sermon, and a lot of this you can go back and listen to the last one I did today, right on biblical ignorance. Now we're gonna we're gonna take this idea of biblical ignorance and we're gonna move it to the. Subject of heresy. But before we get there, we have to we have to take some time right here, right, we have to we have to stop right here and discuss it. Right in the sermon, he made this kind. Of weird assertion that pastors, Sunday school teachers, deacons, and elders, they've got to know the scriptures better than everyone else. They've got to know it, they've got to study it.

25:56 But you can't expect the average you know, housewife and the guy who goes to work, the average person. They're not expected. To know the Bible as good as a pastor. They're not expected to study it as much and to dig into it as much. That's more for the pastors, not for the average layperson. And I immediately kind. Of pushed back on that. Well, wait a minute. In the non Catholic system, we've created a system that says that the people in the pew are the ones. Who actually judged the preaching. So how can you judge the preaching if. You're not studying as much or even more than the pastor, if you're the one sitting in judgment. So I immediately had a little bit of pushback. But even in the sermon, even after he said that, he then read Acts Chapter seventeen, verse eleven, Acts seventeen eleven, where he says these were more noble than those in Tessala and Nika, and that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily.

27:02 Whether those things were so. So he's like, Okay, all of us are supposed to be like the Bareans here. And so what we're supposed to do is study the Bible within this would be every single day. And then you, as a church member, should be studying the Bible every single day so that you can judge whether what you hear is true or false. That means that you would be an absurd I mean, we'll see absurd. It would be an insane level of responsibility that you have to know the scriptures to such a level that you can judge every single sermon whether it is true or false. I don't know how you can. Then negate that and say, well, you know, it doesn't mean you have to know as much or know more of but I think logically it demands that. Now I started looking up different things. Now, some acknowledged the problem that I'm presenting here, but they tried to push back a little bit. So I'm going to go with a source here that pushed back a little bit. And you can see what you think of here, all right, So, and I'm I utilized AI here in part to come up with this. So I basically this is how AI responded to me, or at least at the beginning of this is AI. The interpretation of Acts seventeen eleven within non Catholic Christianity, particularly among Protestants, emphasizes the responsibility of each believer to engage in personal study of the scriptures, assessing teaching for alignment with biblical truth. Act seventeen eleven

28:36 refers to the Bahreans who receive the Word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if those things were so. This is often cited to encourage believers to verify what they hear from preachers or teachers by studying the scriptures for themselves. Now Ai said, however, your point raises an interesting challenge. If the average layperson is to evaluate the pastor's teaching, how would they be equipped to do so if they don't have the same or greater level of biblical knowledge, theological training, or interpretive skill as the pastor. Here are several several factors and implications of this idea. Now Ai is going to push back a little. Bit on my assertion. My assertion is, now, wait a minute, So if we're gonna talk about ignorance, because this is what he did in the sermon, Hey, the people of the people of Israel were destroyed because of a lack of knowledge ignorance. Again, he instead of going with rejection, he kind of went with ignorance. So then he turned to the average person in the pew, Hey, don't be ignorant of God's word.

29:36 So that means you need to study. But then he then he made kind of an allowance. Hey, for those of you who are not pastors, Okay, you don't have to study as much. However, then he goes to Act seventeen eleven, saying, but you can't be ignorant. You've got to be so knowledgeable that you can judge preaching. But you don't have to study as much as the pastor. I don't know. If you're not studying as much as the pastor, how can you then judge the pastor. I don't even know how this works, just a basic logical. I don't like. It just seems to defy all logic. So AI is going to push back a little bit on me here, and we can see to I would like to argue with AI in real time here, but I'll just argue with what it presented, all right. So it says the role of the pastor versus the lay person.

30:21 Pastoral training. Pastors often have formal philological education, training and exegesis in interpretation of scripture, experience with your original language as Greek and Hebrew. They also spend considerable time studying Biblical texts to deliver accurate sermons lay person's knowledge and contrasts. Lay people typically have less formal training, though they still may be deeply committed to personal Bible study. Churches often encourage believers to study the Bible through devotionals, group Bible studies, and personal reading plans. The expectation is not that every church member will possess equal knowledge, but they should be diligent and seeking understanding. While pastors provide spiritual leadership, the layperson's role is to engage in the study of scripture to ensure that the teachings align with scripture. Okay, So if the layperson's responsibility is to study enough to know that the preaching is aligning with scripture, they've got to know the scripture as good as the pastor.

31:20 How else are you. Going to be able to say this aligns or doesn't align. So you're saying that the pastor has all of this formal training. The people without the formal training are the ones the're supposed to say that doesn't align with scripture. Couldn't the pastor then say, you don't think it aligns with scripture because you don't know, you don't have this study. You've not studied this. You've not studied this, you're not studied this. So can the pastor say there the pastor's supposed to go wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, you're right, well wait, who's the authority? Now everybody said, well, the Bible's the authority. Okay, Well, if the Bible's the authority, then both parties would have to know the scriptures equally for one to be able to. Judge the other correct.

32:03 Now, again, what does this have to do with a Hosea passage? I think this is where the sermons started getting way off track. I don't. I think this is a distraction. The Hosea passage is about rejection, not about ignorance, okay, and the way that this is being handled. So, but the. Pastor in this sermon was basically being like, no, you've got to know the scripture. I mean, you don't have to know him as good as a pastor, but you've got to know him enough to be able to determine if what's being preached is true or false? How much knowledge is required for someone to be able to tell? I mean, like, for example, how much while we could just talk about any area of expertise, how much knowledge must you be able to possess before you can tell the expert in the field that they're wrong. Now, I know, in twenty twenty four in America, everybody thinks they're an expert on everything.

32:50 So I I. They go on to say, community accountability, collective discernment many Protestant traditions emphasizes the idea of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that each believer has the Holy Spirit and the capacity to engage with scripture. This doesn't mean every individual is an expert, but within a church community there is collective discernment, discussions and biblical studies or fellowship groups help clarify doctrinal issues and keep teaching accountable. Now, teachers accountable. Now this I already get nervous because now we supposedly have well, each believer has the Holy Spirit to help them understand the scriptures. Well, we know how that's worked in two thousand years of church history. If you have the Holy Spirit helping you interpret scripture, and you come up with a different interpretation than I come up with, and I have the same Holy Spirit giving me an interpretation.

33:41 Either the Holy spirits lying or we're both lying about having the Holy Spirit. And if the Holy Spirit the one who gives us the interpretation of biological inference, that would mean the interpretation is infallible, So that old system just falls completely apart. That's just insanity. When the Bible speaks of the Holy Spirit leading into all truth, that's a reference to the apostles and the writers of the New Testament, not to us, because it just literally makes no sense. If the Holy Spirit's leading us into all truth and helping us know whether what is being preached is true or false, then we should all have the same understanding. We shouldn't have one hundred, you know, thousands upon thousands of differences about basically every doctrinal issue you can find in the Bible. It says, well, lay people may not have formal training. Their role is to approach teaching with humility, prayer, and study, seeking help from more knowledgeable sources when needed.

34:37 In this way, and now see when. You say you've got to the lay person has got to seek information for more knowledgeable sources, you realize what that's going to lead to. Your pastor preaches something you don't like, so you go to a more knowledgeable source known as the Internet, and you're like, the pastor says God is not done with Israel? Is God done with Israel? Oh, here's an all millennial site that says God is not done with this rule. Then they copy, basically memorize that. Go back to the pastor and say you're wrong. Why you're wrong because I read on Google this. Well okay, well then. I don't even understand how that even works.

35:18 In this way, the church functions as a community where pastors provide guidance, but everyone is encouraged to hold teaching, to hold the teaching to the standard of scripture. But when you say everyone is supposed to hold teaching to the standard of scripture, who gets to determine what the scripture say? Everyone can say, Hey, we've got to hold all teaching to the scriptures. But we've got two thousand years of church history where every form of teaching all claims to come from the Bible. The Calvinist believes it comes from the Bible. The non Calvinist believes it comes from the Bible. The amillennialist believes it comes from the Bible. The dispensationist believes it comes from the Bible. You name the system, you name the doctrine, you name the interpretation.

35:59 Everyone's believes it comes from the Bible. E where interpretation comes from the Bible. So that really means nothing. We all have to hold it to the standard of scripture. But whose definition of what the Bible teaches? And then this one really bothers me. Non Catholic Christianity often teaches that the Holy Spirit plays an essential role and illuminating scripture for every believer. The argument is that though the Holy Spirit, through the Holy Spirit's guidance, even those with less formal education can discern truth, this doesn't negate the. Need for diligence study. Let it suggests that spiritual insight is available to all believers. So this is the idea, and I completely reject this.

36:42 You have the Holy Spirit, I have the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit gives me the understanding. Well, if the Holy Spirit is the one giving the understanding, then why do we have Bible colleges and seminaries. I'm already opposed to the entire seminary industrial complex. Local churches should be doing the training. But I digress. But you wouldn't need anything. You would become saved, you. Would have the Holy Spirit. He would teach you, and your knowledge would be perfect because it comes directly from God. But it doesn't work that way. Two thousand years of church history, there is literally just. Think about it. There is no agreement on baptism. There is no agreement on the Lord's Supper, there is no agreement on the word repentance. There is literally no agreement on anything. Now I know that you said, well there's some things. Okay, Well you can try to argue there is salvation. Are you sure, because there's no agreement really on how salvation works or doesn't work. You've got everything from free grace to lordship and everything in between.

37:42 And we talk Calvinism, are Minianism. We could go on and on and on. This entire subject creates a potential tension between trusting pastoral authority and exercising personal discernment and practice. Most church members trust their pastors to be theologically sound while still maintaining the responsibility to study scripture for themselves. However, if members feel they must constantly scrutinize the pastor. It could lead to a sense of skepticism or distrust towards church leadership.

38:24 If each believer is encouraged to judge teaching based on personal study, it opens the door for doctrinal differences. Individual interpretations can lead to diverse views within a congregation or even between denominations. While the intent is to ensure accuracy, the result can sometimes be divisions or fragmentation over doctrinal disagreements. And that's exactly what has happened. So I'm going to say, if we're going to believe that all Christians are to be like the Bareans, that means they need to study the Bible every single day to such a level that they can then justgudge with what's being preached is true or false. And if the people in the pew are judging what is being preached is true or false, then the authority of the church is the people sitting in the pew, not the person preaching.

39:14 And then what happens if the people in the pew disagree with one another, then who's the authority? Well, then it becomes majority rule. Right If the majority can then you say, well you need elder rule, and then the elders decide. Well, so then the elders their interpretation trumps the interpretation of the people. Well, I thought the people had the right to be like the Bereans, to determine whether what is being preached is true or false. So those so I disagree that Hoseiah four to six is that these people just did not know. I think the issue is they knew and they rejected. Where does rejection come from? It comes from inside of us, our sinful nature? What creates that rebellious nature? What can incite it? Actually, knowledge can recite it, can incite it?

40:04 All right? And then how much knowledge are you supposed to have? Well, if the people in the pew are supposed to judge the preaching, then their knowledge, I think would have to be equal or supersede the people they're judging. I don't know how you can get around that. You can play all the games you want, I don't think you can get around it. Now this leads now to the rest of this sermon, and it's going to be about heresy. Are you ready? Here we go, spiritually speaking, a very dangerous situation. In fact, today we're living in an hour in this country where we see more apostasy, more apostasy, more heretical teachings normalized.

40:56 Now we live in a day and age where we see more heretical teaching being normalized. Now here's the question, who gets to define what is heretical teaching? Now you say, well, the Word of God. But the people who you call heretics are using the same Bible to say. You're the heretic. So that heretaic is telling me that I'm a heretic, and I'm telling them that they're heretic. And we're both citing the Word of God as the source to declare the other person heretic. Someone's got to be wrong. Who's wrong? Who gets to make the final determination? Well, the people making the final determination? Are they not the authority and not the scriptures? And applauded. I saw just the other day a picture of a young man who has he's just visited this church, maybe two or three times he's visited here, and I saw his picture with Greg Locke. They're smiling him, embraced.

42:02 You said, I don't know who Greglock is. I'm so glad you don't know who Greglock is. He's one of the leading heretics today. Teaches things that if you don't know who he is. Remember a few years ago, a preacher got up said that autistic children are demon possessed. Y'all, remember that that's that guy. That guy, And here's a young man. He's visited here two or three times, but he wanted his picture taken with Greg. I'm not saying he needs to have his picture taken with me, don't misunderstand me. I'd rather have not had my picture taken. But I was shocked to see him stand there with Greg lock. That lets me know that's the direction he's being pulled because he doesn't know what the Bible says.

42:51 Now, I can't stand the teaching of Greglocke. We've talked about him. I can't stand his teaching, right, I can't. But did you hear what he says? He's getting pulled in that direction because he doesn't know what the Bible says. Is it because he doesn't know what the Bible says, or he knows what the Bible says and he's interpreting it differently than you see. To say he doesn't know would be like, here's this person, he's just completely ignorant of scripture. He doesn't know it in any way shape or form. He doesn't know it. Now, see, Yes, that's a major assertion, is to assume someone who believes in a way different than you that they don't know what the Bible says. They may very much know what the Bible says. I'll give you a good example, all right.

43:41 I was a student at a particular school. This person who taught the Word of God, who was in charge of the school, was amillennial in his eschatology, very much a part of Reform theology, believed in Sola scripture, greatly opposed to the Charismatic movement, completely believed in the Reformation teaching of salvation, the doctrine of election, sovereign grace. Okay, and that's I was learning all of these things. Everything was going great. I was going to their school. I was taking Greek, there was a Hebrew course. I was working on all kinds of things. I'm studying, taking tests, sending in papers. I was working, working, going, And then all of a sudden, and this.

44:25 School that were connected to a very famous Christian radio network. And so one night I'm driving home from church because the man in charge of the school, one of my major the major teacher of the school. He does a call in program. He does a call in program, and so I'm driving home from church. Here's you know, my main teacher. And then he starts telling everyone the world is coming to an end in nineteen ninety four, and I almost wrecked the car. I'm like, what is how right now? The world is coming to an end in nineteen ninety four. This is not like some you know, this is like reformed a.

45:09 Millennial, like, what is going on here? What? What? What is going on? And he's going to put out a book called nineteen ninety four And I'm like, what is happening? It chaos, their RUPs, everybody's trying to figure out what's going on? What's happening? Obviously that was Harold Camping Family Radio, School of the Bible. Family Radio was the name of the Christian radio network. And then it just aspiraled out of control. Then nineteen ninety four came and went. Then he said the church Age had come to an end and that everyone has to leave their local congregations. If you stay in the local congregation, you've taken the mark of the beast. It just got in say that the church Age was over. And then so basically Family Radio was to be even though it's not a church's basically to be your church.

45:50 And you're like, what is going on? And then next thing you know, he's saying that the actual end of the world was going to be in two thousand. I can't remember what the year was. And then it just got worse. He ended up having a stroke. He finally repented of a lot of this nonsense. He wrote all kinds of books about it. It was craziness, it was insanity. But guess what. Don't tell me the man didn't know the word of God, because I heard him teach the Word of God over and over. I heard him teach all the way through the Book of Hebrews, through the Book of Ruth, through the. Gospel of Mark. I could go on and on, law, verse by verse, taking years to go through it, knowing. Reading it, reading it, reading it, reading it, reading it, reading it, reading it. He built his entire radio network about the Word of God, where it was being read without commentary time and time again throughout the day. He knew it. He knew it. He knew it.

46:39 You can't just say, well, this person, well, the reason he's with Greg Luck is because he doesn't know the word of God. I would love to believe. That knowing it would prevent this, but it No, there's something about interpreting it. See. I typically would say ignorance of God's word is the soil in which deception can be planted, and I in some ways I still stand by that to some level, but there's a part of me that says, I don't know if that's the case anymore, because people know God's word and they can be deceived to believing anything. So then it's like, well, is it about knowing it or is it about interpreting it? Now, when it comes to interpreting it, ladies and gentlemen, there is no agreed interpretation of it. There just isn't.

47:29 There is no agreed upon interpretation of the word. If you think there's not even agreed upon principles of it, I'm sitting behind my pulpit at Victory Baptist Church. On a table is a book on hermoneutics, right, and it goes through all the systems of hermonutics, going all the way back from Judaism throughout the entire early Church, going through this system, the allegorical system, then this system, then this system, then in this system, and then even those who say that they agree upon a certain system of hermonutics, in many cases will violate the very system that they say that they believe in when it comes. To interpreting certain passages of scripture.

48:12 Because no one holds your hands and say, wait, wait, wait, wait, these are the rules of interpretation based on your system of hermeneutics, and you. Must follow that. No, it's a free for all. I can interpret a verse this way. How many times have we seen people who would hold to the same hermeneutical principles I hold to go to Ezekiel was it thirty six and where it says Israel Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel Israel. They kick Israel completely out of the chapter and say, oh, a new heart. That's about you and me? What where did that come from? How many times people who supposedly hold to the same hermonutical system that I hold to goes to Jeremiah and where it says, oh, the plans I have for you are to bless you, and they apply it to us.

48:57 I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's promise for those coming out of Babylonian captivity. Do you know people coming out of Babylonian captivity. Why are you that's a misinterpretation, But no, it doesn't matter, does not matter, And any rejection of their interpretation, they would just simply say I am wrong. So his argument is. People walk away from God because they're ignorant of scripture. And I don't believe that's what the passage is even saying. And I will argue are walking away from God has nothing to do with how much we know of scripture. It's because of the internal rebellion inside of us, and knowing scripture may actually incite it. Number two, he is making the claim that not knowing scripture is what leads someone to heretical beliefs.

49:48 And I say that's not the case. Myself and Kelly and the Hugheses we sat with someone today. They looked at us and said, thank you for telling me that I don't have to get baptized to be saved. It's the first time they'd heard that. Thank you for telling me I don't have to be baptized to be saved. Somebody has not declared that that individual the truth of God's word. This is a person who's visited churches in this area and did not know you don't have to be baptized to be saved, just in case you're wondering, you don't have to be baptized to be saved.

50:44 And guess what others would say, you do and they would cite scripture. Others would say, well, you don't have to be baptized in order to be saved. But if you reject being baptized, then you approve you were never saved. Others would say, well, you could be saved and never get baptized and be reject and reject baptism and you'd still be safe. There's not even agreement on that. But so, but it's not due to ignorance of God's word. Baptism is a picture. It's not a part of your salvation. The people are destroyed because it lack of knowledge, because the preachers didn't want to study. They're ignorant. God does not put his stamp of approval on them, and it produces more ignorance, which produces more destruction.

51:35 Now, see, I used to I used to do this when I was young. I used to do this when I was young. When pastors and I and I and I and I even have to be careful when I review sermons. It is easy when I hear a pastor say. Now, there's times pastors say things that are just absolutely fraudulent, Like I get very frustrated. They may say something about a church father. I'm like, that's just not that's not no, that's not the case. They may say something about a scripture. I'm like, no, that's not what. They may say something about a Greek word. So there's times pastors say things that are just utterly fraudulent. Wrong. Now, it may be based off ignorance, maybe they're just misspeaking, maybe, but I always I try. Now, I get When I was younger, I would just full out they're ignorant, they don't study their Bibles, they don't know what they're talking about.

52:22 And I and I tended to be much more like bombastic. Right now, I'm like, wait a minute, them now again. Saying things that can be clearly proven to be fraudulent, Like when they say things that are just not true. Okay, I'm still not going to be super nice about that when they're just like, literally, just. That's not that's not even the case. Right, you know Luther said this, you know, like Luther never said that. That's an urban legend. That's where are you getting this right, Okay, that's not what we're talking about. That's just that just drives me crazy. But I have to draw a distinct Shit, if a pastor says one interpretation and I disagree with that interpretation seven hundred and fifty percent, that doesn't mean they're ignorant of scripture. It just means they're interpreting scripture differently. So the issue is why do we interpret scripture differently? It's not because ignorance of See.

53:14 I've already argued, we don't walk away. From God because of ignorance of scripture. Right, they are walking away from God. They're rejecting God. They're rejecting his knowledge. Not because they don't know it. They know it. They're rejecting it. And I will argue that rejection comes from something internally deeper. I will argue that in many cases we may quote unquote become heretical, but it's not because we don't know scripture. It's because, now you could argue in some cases that we're interpreting scripture. Now, this is true of all of us. We can interpret scripture certain ways in order to try to justify our sin or to no longer make it a sin. Right, you want something, the Bible says you can't have something. It's very advantageous to you to change what God is condemning there so that you can.

54:00 Get it right. So we all know that that once again is an internal problem. And there's another issue of interpretation. What leads to why is there so many different interpretations? What causes so many different interpretations? That's a deeper issue. His argument is it's it's scriptural ignorance. Now, I'm not going to say that that's never a problem, but I'm just saying typically, the different theological systems are usually created by people who've spent their lives reading and studying the Bible. Look, I think Gerald's Finny was a complete, absolute heretic. I think everything Finny taught was heretical. But I can't say he didn't know the scriptures. I think everything Bethel Church and Writing California believes or teaches, I think they're out of their ever living, living mind. I think they're insane. I think they're crazy. I think they're heretics. But I'm not going to say that don't know the Bible. I think one of the things that really then really opened my eyes to this really is when I was when I was working on a degree on Catholic theology, and so I'm in a class.

55:09 You know, I'm with all Catholics, right, Catholic professor or in some cases a priest, and other students. And then you realize these Catholics know the Bible. I mean they're sitting there, they know it. They know it, they're citing it. They know it. And I'm like, well, wait, we always retire The reason Catholics believe this nonsense is they don't know the Bible. And I know they actually know it. They actually know it. So oh okay, now because they've got they got an entire different system for interpreting it. So we're now we may get to an interpretive situation, but it has nothing to do with knowledge. They know it, they read it, they study it. You just look at any Catholic priest who does the Liturgy of the Hours.

55:53 If he does the Liturgy of the Hours every day for a month, I mean, well, basically in an entire year, he's almost going to go through the If he's using the Election and using the Liturgy of the Hours, he's basically gone through the entire Bible basically in a year. Or'll come close to it. He definitely has gone through how he's gone through all one hundred and fifty psalms every month for the entire year. And if we go through the electionary I think if they're using the three year system, that every three years they basically go through almost the entire Bible. So don't tell me they don't know it. They know it that See, it's not always that simple. And one more, the people will be destroyed, the preachers will be disqualified. This one was very frightening, the posterity will be disregarded the future, the children. If you will look at the last one of the verse, seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Fundamental Baptist Church. How we handle God's word right now? We'll determine how our children and our grandchildren, our great grandchildren will handle the word of God later.

57:07 You want God to meet with them, then we need to meet with God today. Oh now, I oh boy. First of all, there's been people raised hearing the word of God supposedly handled right who grows up and rejects that way of handling it completely. So I don't know that that's any guarantee. And I don't know if you can take Joseah four to six and and take from that. I don't know if you can. If you can do that, I'm going to I'm going to say something, how should we understand the forgetting of the children.

57:54 At the end of verse six. I'm just gonna see how aih okay, I do not know what happened here. I'm gonna close this and then see if I can get back in. That's weird, all right, let's see here. Here we go. Maybe it's thinking, it's thinking it may not work. I wanted. I know, we're almost a sixty minutes.

58:36 That's that's a that's a big claim. Yeah, currently for some reason it's not working. I don't know. I'll have to get that's frustrating. I'll get to that. I look, when you get to Hoseah four to six. Remember this is so, this is so. Once again say this man who's preaching, he knows the scripture. So I'm not in any way going to incite or argue or insinuate that he doesn't know it. But I would once again state, whenever you're in the Old Testament and you're dealing with many of these passages. You can't forget how things are functioning in the context of the Covenant. God made specific covenant issues with Israel. If you do this, this happens. If you don't do this happens that not all of that is just immediately transferable to us. Right, you can't go take some of those promises. You can't sometimes take those curses as well. So I think that this is how do we understand this? Do we understand this in light of all a temporary setting aside of Israel?

59:40 Does this have to do with the Covenant? In many cases, I was going to see if I. Could get this to work, but it's not appearing to work. Yeah, this thing seems to be completely not working today hang on or this evening, Yeah, that's not working. So but yeah, I think you can't just you can't just extrapolate from that. Hey, how our kids are going to handle the Word of God is greatly determined on. How we handle it. There's no way to even come close to even making that assertion. There's no way to make that assertion, no way at all, none, none, none, There isn't all, right, there is it?

1:00:29 So we will stop there. You can do a little bit more you can. Go listen to the rest of that sermon, the dangers of the dangers of Biblical ignorance. There's only like, I don't know, maybe five minutes left at most. But yeah, So we went through Hoseah. I keep wanting to say, Hebrews Hoseah four to six. We looked at my interpretation that this is not ignorance, like they don't know, but they know, but they reject. The rejection comes from the sinful nature, and that knowledge can actually incite the sinful nature. It doesn't diminish it. Right. We talked about Acts. Seventeen eleven and all of the like, Well, if people have to know it in order to judge it, well, then how much do they have to know? And then how does that even work? Right? We talked about all of that concept and how all of this works all right, So, and then we talked about knowledge and.

1:01:19 Heresy. Well, I don't think heresy is created by a lack of knowledge, because I think in many cases the heretics know the scripture is. Very very very very very very very very very well. I think I have historically I've gone more with the idea they don't know, but I think they do know so then where does different. Interpretations arise from? All right, now you can figure out that children part. I have to leave you something to do, all right, Thanks for listening. I'm going to stop right there. Everyone have a great, great, great, great great great great evening, and I would love to get your feedback on any of this. Thanks for listening. Everyone, have a great night.

1:02:00 God bless