God Will Only Forgive If?

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Looking at our world from a theological
perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast

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making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Saturday, June twenty ninth,

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twenty twenty four. It is currently
eleven twenty nine am Central Time,

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and I am coming to you live
from the Theology Central Studio located right here

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in Abilene, Texas. And the
Theology Central Studio has become headquarters for great

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frustration, great irritation, great discouragement, great, I don't know, great,

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wanting to give up feelings. Okay, that's the feeling, that's the

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vibe in the studio is I'm just
like, you know what, I'm just

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I'm done. I can't take this
anymore. I just cannot take it anymore.

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And I know that sounds hyperble.
Some people say you're being over dramatic.

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You can think that, but you're
not here. When I get done

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with some broadcasts and I walk downstairs
from the studio and I begin to just

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kind of pace around the house talking
to myself, like, you know what,

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why am I even trying? This
is just ridiculous. Just just forget

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it. Just there's no point in
even trying, because you're like, you

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know, you're out there trying to
talk about these things, and obviously you

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are in the minority of the minority
of the minority of the minority of the

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minority of the minority of the minority, because everything you listen to disagrees with

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you, and it has become extremely
frustrating. And I hate that. I

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hate when I feel like I hate
I hate when the when I feel like

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the podcast has taken a much more
of a negative vibe. I hate that,

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right, because when when I started
the you know sermons two point oh

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the Sermon's two point oh app sermon
Challenge, right, the whole goal there

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was actually positive, right. I
wanted everyone to download the sermons two point

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oh app because I wanted everyone to
get the most out of it possible,

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right, and then me reviewing the
sermons again, I don't listen to them

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first, so there was no desire
to be negative. I wanted to,

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you know, like, I'm listening
to these sermons, I'm gonna listen with

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you, and whatever happens happens.
But there wasn't a desire to be negative.

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In fact, the desire was hopefully
to find some great sermons and to

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really benefit from it. And I'm
not saying that that hasn't happened. But

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as we reached, as we have, as we have arrived, as we

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have reached the end of June,
it has just become very, very negative.

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And I can go through the different
parts that have become negative. First,

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the whole Psalm eighty three thing.
That is just maddening that the original

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Sermons series, their original broadcast that
sparked this entire discussion about PSAWM eighty three,

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has become extremely negative. And I
don't want to be that way,

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but I mean, for crying out
loud when you're when you're listening to messages

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on Saw eighty three, and part
of the time you have no idea what's

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even being spoken of because it doesn't
even come from Saw eighty three. It's

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just like, I don't even know
what has this has to do with Saw

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eighty three. It's like someone read
Saw eighty three and they just went and

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talked about just anything. Hey,
we're gonna I'm gonna do a twenty part

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series on Saw eighty three, but
I'm gonna spend eighty percent of the time

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talking about everything other than Saw eighty
three. And then when they start talking

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about Saw eighty three, they make
absolutely just incorrect. I mean, there's

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just no way to get around it, just absolute misrepresentation and just saying things

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that are that are absolutely false.
And then when we listen to other sermons

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about Saw eighty three, next thing, you know, well, no,

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this, this is this happened during
second Chronicles twenty where you know, the

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king called in Asaph and you're like, no, Asaph was dead, just

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absolutely fradulent wrong information. And then
yesterday when I was listening to some more

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of the original series on Saw eighty
three, you know that sparked this entire

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discussion. Then they're making, you
know, comments about Bible translations and just

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saying things that are just historically factually
in error, making absolutely ridiculous claims that

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there is no historical support for.
And it's like whenever you're listening to sermons

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and you just start hearing people saying
things that are just factually in error,

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Like it's not an interpretive issue,
they're just absolutely lies, misrepresentation, misinformation.

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I mean, what do you do? I mean, like if you

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can't, I mean, I understand
that there's always going to be differences in

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hermeneutical approaches. I know there's always
going to be differences in interpretation. I

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know there's always going to be differences
in philological standing and doctrinal understanding, but

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you think at the very least,
you think, at the very least when

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you're listening to preaching, that you
don't have to fact check every single thing.

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You don't have to go, oh
wait, listen, pause, fact

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check, Okay, that was wrong, fact check that was wrong. Fact

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that's insane. At the very least, pastors should be able to least get

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the facts right now. They may
interpret the facts differently, but I mean,

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you can't say this king called in
this person when the person died decades

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before. You can't say that.
You can't say, well, this is

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what happened when this translation was being
made or when these manuscripts were being copied,

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and it's just absolutely fraudulent, like
you just that's just I don't understand

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that. Like that just drives me
absolutely crazy. So the PSAW eighty three

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thing, oh so frustrating. And
then what happened with Joshua one eight,

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Ladies and gentlemen, what happened with
Joshua one eight? I have yet to

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find a sermon that even bothers to
try to connect Joshua one eight with Deuteronomy

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twenty eight. It's like, I
don't even think I've found one night even

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even entertains the thought, and everyone
just takes Joshua one eight completely, just

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throws Israel out almost instantaneously, and
even if they pay lip service to them,

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it immediately becomes us us us us
us us, and then a complete

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made up world, believing that people
can actually obey the words in Joshua one

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eight. I just I'm at the
the end of my rope there, and

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then I thought, I go to
my mailbox and there's, you know,

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two issues of the sort of the
Lord newspaper, and I get all excited.

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It's like Christmas in June. And
then we start reading the article on

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revival, and then next thing you
know, they're making their quoting verses in

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the Gospel of John saying that they
were about us, and it's just no

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way it's about us. The whole
concept that the Holy Spirit teaches us and

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leads us into all truth and is
going to bring back to remembrance everything Jesus

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said, we know absolute factually that
is not true, because if it's true,

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then all Christians would be in agreement. But yet there it is being

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taught, and it's just like,
at some point You're like, all I'm

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doing is turning on the microphone and
I'm offering the contrary perspective to everything.

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Hey, we're gonna listen to this, and I'm offering a contrary perspective.

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We're gonna listen to this. I'm
offering a contrary perspective. We're listening to

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this. I'm gonna offer a contrary
perspective. At some point You're just like,

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no, I don't want to be
offering the contrary perspective. I want

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to be I want to find agreement. That's what I want. So it's

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just been frustrating. So I came
back here to the studio this morning.

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We're actually what I was doing in
the studio was doing more prep for tomorrow,

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which was already frustrating because tomorrow we
still have to be on Saw eighty

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three at Victory Baptist Church, because
well, we've found I've walked, We've

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fallen into Saw eighty three and there's
no way to get out until I make

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it to the end. Right,
So I feel bad because now I've kind

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of lost. I hate to say
it, I'm so discouraged and disgruntled.

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I don't even really want to work
on Saw eighty three anymore. I just

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want to scream, right. So
I'm like, okay, well, well

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I've got to work on So I'm
working on, you know, Saw eighty

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three, and I'm We're down to
the part where there's going to be all

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these references to the Book of Judges. And then I'm like, well,

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how much of these chapters and the
Book of Judges do I read from?

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And I got to make sure I
can say these names, you know,

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relatively close to the way they're pronounced. And I just kind of looking at

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that and just going, man,
I don't I don't want to do this.

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But on the other hand, I'm
like, you know, I need

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to, and I hate to.
I hate to admit that, but it's

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just being honest. So I'm sitting
there working on that, working on that,

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and I'm like, okay, well, I got a broadcast. So

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then I grabbed the sort of Lord
newspaper. I'm like, do I want

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to try to finish this article on
revival? I want to I need to

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be revived to finish the article on
revival, because it's it's gonna only get

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worse. I know it's only gonna
get worse. Why did I do this?

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I should have read it in the
first place. I don't know.

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So then I'm like, okay,
well, I don't know. I'm not

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just kind of sitting here, you
know, when you're just kind of sitting

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here looking into space, contemplating your
life decisions. And all of a sudden

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I get a notification on my iPad
for one of my podcast apps. I'm

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like, oh, open Open I
think it's called Open Bible or Open the

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Bible podcast, right. I'm like, well, I haven't listened to that

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in like forever. Let me hit
play. I hit play. I think

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it's like five seconds, maybe ten
seconds. I think it's probably close en

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to I immediately hit paused, like
no, what in the world. I'm

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like, okay, well, it
may be negative, but it is a

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conversation I think Christians need to have. Right, So let's talk about forgiveness

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and will God forgive you or will
he not forgive you? And what is

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the basis on him forgiving you.
Let's listen to the beginning of this and

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then we'll just we're just going to
kind of use the beginning of this.

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I think for a conversation. I
don't know where this is going to go.

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I think it should be interesting.
I think we're going to probably get

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lots of different perspectives in the email
and comments. But I think it's worth

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having the conversation because I know throughout
church history no one has agreed on this

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subject. I know, shocker,
right. I guess on one hand,

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you know, should I be discouraged
by the fact that if you're going to

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talk about the Bible, talk about
theology, you're just going to have to

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realize that no matter what perspective you
put forth, there's always going to be

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disagreement. It's been that way for
two thousand years. We have never agreed

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literally on anything, So I guess
I shouldn't be shocked by that. It

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just I hate I hate when it
feels negative, right, and I know

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this is probably about to feel negative. I'm gonna try to make it more

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positive because I want us to have
a very serious conversation about this. I

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mean, we're dealing about We're gonna
be dealing with the subject of God's forgiveness.

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That's pretty significant, right. I
mean, I don't know about you.

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If there is a God, I
want to be forgiven by that God,

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especially if there's a place called hell. All right, Okay, so

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then forgiveness is pretty pretty important,
right, So how do you understand forgiveness?

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Well, let's listen to the beginning
of this. It's it's gonna be

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fast. You got to you got
to make sure. Tell everyone to be

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quiet around you right now, because
this is going to happen fast. All

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right. I mean I'm telling you. I literally stopped out like you gotta

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be kidding me. You gotta be
kidding me. So here we go.

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I've got it cueued up. It's
going to be fast. It's going to

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be fast. Are you ready?
Are you listening? Okay, tell everyone

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to be quiet. Sh everyone,
shhh, be quiet. Here we go.

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God has never promised to forgive one
sin that you are not willing to

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foresee. God has never promised to
forgive one sin that you aren't willing to

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forsake. So there is no forgiveness
if you are not willing to forsake the

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sin you are seeking forgiveness for.
So whatever sin it is, Lord,

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I need to be forgiven today for
these seven sins? Are you willing to

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forsake it? Now? Do you
just have to be willing I'm willing to

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forsake it. I mean, I'm
never I haven't forsaken it in fifty seven

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years, but I'm willing to forsake
it. Like, how does this work?

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This brings up some serious questions,
right, because let me just give

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you a couple of scriptures. Love
the Lord Thy God with all your heart,

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mind, body, and soul.
That's a command. If you haven't

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obeyed that command, you're in sin. If you ask God forgiveness for that,

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are you going to forsake your lack
of love for God? Are you?

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Are you willing to forsake it?
Or you've probably have been willing to

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forsake that forever, but you probably
still don't love God with all your heart,

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mind, body and soul. Is
do you not get forgiveness? Love

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your neighbor as yourself? Are you
willing to forsake the sin of not loving

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your neighbor? Well? Wait a
minute, be ye, holy as God

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is holy? That means be perfect
as God is perfect. Oh wait,

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you can't accomplish. You've got to
be willing to forsake that. You may

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be willing to forsake all three of
those failures, but you're never going to

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do that, so is God.
So I don't understand. Is it just

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so? Is it just something we
say I'm willing to forsake it? I

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mean I'm not, but I'm willing
to forsake it. Is that how it

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works? And then God's like,
sorry, I'm not gonna bring forgiveness to

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you. Let's let's play this one
more time. Let's play this one more

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time. I'll let it play out
a little bit more. Now. I

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don't know exactly what he means by
that, but I've heard things like this,

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Hey, God will not forgive you
unless you're You've gotta be You've got

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to be willing to forsake it.
And then some will go so far to

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say you must forsake it. God
will not forgive the sin you will not

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forsake. Well, I I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen. I think we're

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all in serious, serious, serious, serious, serious trouble of no one

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being forgiven? Like, how does
that work? If you get really?

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If you really again, this is
the idea where you take the concepts.

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Okay, I will agree with that, take it to its logical conclusion.

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I don't know where you end up
if you take that to his logical conclusion

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I think you end up in a
train wreck as where I think. But

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let's listen to well, let the
that's all I've heard, right, What

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you just heard is all I've heard. I stopped it right, then downloaded

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the audio, and like, Okay, this is a podcast discussion, ladies

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and gentlemen. So I'll let it
play out a little bit more where you

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can hear their introduction. I think
they'll probably tell you about the podcast so

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that you can go find a podcast
and subscribe to it yourself. But we'll

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let this play out a little bit
and then we'll just do a little bit

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of discussion about this and kind of
see where you kind of where you fit

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in here and and whatever whatever position
you hold to, you do have to

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try to make sure it makes some
sense if you take it to its logical

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conclusion. Let's see what they have
to say. Gaunt has never promised to

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forgive one sin that you are not
willing to foresee. See. Well,

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I can think of some sins I've
fallen into many times. Yeah, well,

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are you willing to foreseek it?
Now? Welcome to open the Bible

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Weekend with Pain Smith. I'm Steve
Hiller and Colin That is quite the statement

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God has never promised to forgive one
sin that you're not willing to forsake.

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I'll never forget the time that I
heard it. It was Dr Alan Redpath,

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who at one time was the positive
of the Moody Church here in Chicago,

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and he said that at a conference
in Britain. I was seventeen years

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old when I heard him say that, and it hit me between the eyes

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and brought me up short. And
you know, it's important to listen carefully

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to what the great man said.
He didn't say that God has never promised

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to forgive one sin that you haven't
forsaken, because it is true that we

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sometimes fall into a sin repeatedly and
many, many times. What he said

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was that God is not ready to
forgive one sin that you're not willing to

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forsake. In other words, I
can't say I'm going to press right ahead

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and carry on doing the same thing
again and at the same time repent and

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expect that God is going to forgive
me. And Doctor Redpath was touching the

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great truth of Isaiah five, where
God says let the wicked forsake his way

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and the unrighteous man his thoughts.
And so this speaks into the heart of

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repentance that in coming to God and
asking for his forgiveness, I've got to

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bring what I've done. I've got
to place it into his hands, and

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I've got to say, by your
grace, I am not going there again.

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And God has wonderful grace for us, even if we've come with the

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same sin that's been committed many times. But you can't come and let go

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of what you're not willing to forsake. Well, we're gonna be in Matthew

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chapter two. That sounds so pious, and many Christians will hear that be

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like, ammen, Unless you're willing
to forsake it, God will not forgive

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it. Okay, But what does
that look like? Okay? You may

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keep falling into it over and over
and over and over. So God,

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he did not say. God will
not forgive what you will not forsake.

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God will not forgive unless you are
willing to. He will not forgive what

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you're not willing to forsake. You
may not forsake it. You just must

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be willing to forsake it. I
don't understand what that means. Hey,

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I'm willing to forsake it. I
mean I'm gonna keep committing Well, no

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no, no, no, no
no no, that doesn't mean you're really

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willing. But but you said that
I could keep committing it and God would

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forgive if I'm willing. God would
not withhold forgiveness if I keep doing it.

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God would only withhold forgiveness if I'm
not willing to forsake it. I

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mean, come on, ladies and
gentlemen, that I don't even know how

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you measure that. Like that seems
like an absolutely ridiculous concept to even mention.

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Yeah, I would be convicting on
first, you'd like, wait a

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minute, am I really willing to
forsake my sin? And it says there's

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some sins that we fall into over
and over and over and over. I

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am always baffled by the evangelical Christian
mind because if you read the Bible,

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the commands sermon on them, ount, what does Jesus say, be eee

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perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. You're in a perpetual sin to that

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You're never going to fulfill that be
ye holy as God is holy. That's

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mentioned in Leviticus and in Peter.
You're never going to fulfill that. Guess

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what you are in a perpetual state
of sin. Love God with all your

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heart, mind, body, and
soul. You're never going to do that.

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You're in a perpetual state of sin. Desire the Word of God more

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than gold and food. You're never
going to accomplish that. You're in a

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perpetual status sin. I condemn in
James, we going if you are guilty

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of one point of the law,
you're guilty of all of it. You

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are in a forever perpetual state of
sin. So when it says there's some

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sins we continually fall into, you
don't continually fall into sin. You live

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in sin perpetually unless you're going to
utterly minimize and water down the law so

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it's no longer stee it no longer
kills, it, no longer destroys.

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But it's like, Okay, I
think I can accomplish that. No,

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you can't. The whole point of
the law is to so break you that

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you're like, I cannot do this. You can be What does it mean

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to be willing to forsake it?
What does it mean? I'm willing to

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forsake it, But I'm gonna bet
I'm gonna continue to live in a perpetual

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state of sin. I don't.
That just seems like it's something I'm supposed

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to say. Okay, well,
God, I need your forgiveness now,

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hey, just so that you know
I'm really willing to forsake this, because

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I know if I don't say those
words, you won't forgive me. I

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mean, I really am willing.
And some people say, well, if

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you're really willing, then you'll stop. Okay, Well, then if we're

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really willing to forsake our sin,
then why don't we just stop sinning?

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And everyone is perfect? Oh wait, nobody can be perfect. So that

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means there's a part of you that
never truly wants to forsake all sin is

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called your sinful nature. Like I
don't even understand that. Con Hey,

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God will God? God did not
say, or you know, or this

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pastor, famous pastor. He did
not say that God will not forgive you.

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That God will not forgive you unless
you forsake your sin. God will

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only not forgive you if you're not
willing to forsake your sin. What a

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This seemed like a meaningless distinction.
So this raises the question will God forgive

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you or will he not? Will
God forgive you if you lay out the

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conditions or will God forgive you because
of what Christ has done? Now,

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and I think we talk about forgiveness. I think there's a couple of concepts

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we have to consider. Right.
This is very important from the non Catholic

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perspective coming out of the Reformation.
Remember the major difference there was between the

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idea of imputed righteousness versus infused righteousness. Catholicism held to an infused righteous idea

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of justification. Luther very much put
forth the eydea of an imputed righteousness.

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Now, the way this is supposed
to work, right, This is typically

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how this is articulated. Right,
And this is weird. This is that

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Christian double speak again. But this
is I'm going to try to make it

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pretty simple. You are when you
look to God's law, you see that

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you are a failure. You see
that you cannot keep it. You cannot

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keep it in thought, word,
deed, by what you do or by

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what you don't do. You will
never obey God's law. It shows you

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your inability, It breaks you,
It condemns you. The law does nothing

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but absolutely totally destroy you. So
then you realize you're hopeless and helpless.

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So the only thing you can do
is not try harder, not be willing

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to try harder, not to do
more, not to try to do more.

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Your only hope is to run to
someone who can take care of the

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entire problem for you, and that
is the person of Jesus Christ, second

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person of the Trinity, the eternal
son of God. God sent forth his

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son. His son came first and
foremost to keep the law perfectly for those

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of us who can never keep it. Not only did he keep it,

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then he went to the cross,
where my breaking of the law and my

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sin is imputed accredited to his account. God the Father poured out his wrath

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on his son, and Christ propitiated
the wrath of God. He satisfied the

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wrath of God for me. All
all of God's wrath has been taken care

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of. It has been satisfied.
He dranked the last drop of God's wrath

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for me. When I put my
faith in him, then all of God's

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wrath has already been taking care of. There's no more wrath left for me.

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It's been taken care of. My
sins have been paid for because Christ

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paid for them. My sins have
been covered in the blood of Christ.

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There is perfect forgiveness of all my
sins. Oh, but there's more.

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Not only did Christ die pay satisfy
the wrath of God on my part,

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all my sins are forgiven. All
my sins are washed away in Christ Jesus.

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Guess what, His obedience to the
law is now imputed to my account.

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So in my position before God,
I am one hundred percent forgiven.

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I am one hundred percent washed clean. I am one hundred percent free from

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God's wrath because Jesus took all of
it for me, and I am now

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declared to be perfect, holy in
righteousness, righteous in Christ. I am

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forgiven. It's finished, It's done. As far as salvation is concerned.

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There is no more forgiveness needed.
I am perfectly forgiven. So it's not

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like, well, God's like,
hey, I'm not I'm going to forgive

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you now unless you do this or
this and this. No, I'm already

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forgiven. All my sins have been
paid for, They've been removed. As

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far as the east from the west. God does not impute any sin to

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my account because I'm in Christ Jesus. There is no sin to impute to

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my account because I stand in the
perfect obedience of Christ. There is no

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sin for me because I'm in Christ. So in that case, you can't

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look to a Christian go, well, God won't forgive you unless you do

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this or this. No, I'm
already forgiven as far as salvation is concerned,

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I'm already forgiven. I'm already forgiven. Let me stak that again.

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I am perfectly forgiven. I am
perfectly clean, I am perfectly righteous and

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obedient in Christ Jesus. So there's
not like, well, God will forgive

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you if there's no if you put
your faith in Christ. Now what some

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people say is well, that initial
salvation you can only obtain that if then

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they could put the condition if you're
willing to forsake your sin, if you

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repent of your sin. No,
wait a minute, so then we have

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to look at this. We'll call
this the initial forgiveness in salvation or salvation?

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How do I get the forgiveness of
salvation? And a lot of people

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will put if so they put repentance
there. Now, I got no problem

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if you put repentance there, if
you state repentance is what I believe it

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truly is. It is a change
of mind. Now people say a change

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of mind that leads to a change
of action. That no, it's a

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change of mind. So what how
does this happen? When I look to

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the law, I change my mind
and I go I admit, Lord,

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I'm a sinner. I have broken
all of these laws. I acknowledge.

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I have changed my mind and acknowledged
these are all sins. That's a change

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of mind. I change my mind
that Christ, Jesus died for me as

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a substitutionary sacrifice, and that in
him there is forgiveness. I repent and

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changeange my mind about sin, about
God and about Jesus, and about salvation,

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and about realizing I'm saved by apart
from works. That is the repentance

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that is required for initial salvation.
It is a change of mind. That

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is what the word primarily means.
Well, I know in a modern day

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evangelical isn't like no, no,
no, no. It's got to be

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a change of action. It's got
to be a change of action. I

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am saved by an imputed righteousness.
And imputed righteousness does not lead to a

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change of action. It declares someone
to be a saint when they are still

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very much a sinner by nature and
by action. But some people want to

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put forth the idea that you have
to Basically, well, you're got to

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be at least willing to change.
You got to now. And then what

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people will say, Well, if
you don't change enough, you know,

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six months or a year into your
so called salvation, Well then you really

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weren't willing, So therefore your repentance
was not genuine. Therefore you were never

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saved. Well, then you live
in a perpetual state of going, what

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do I have to do to prove
that I was saved? No, I

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am safe because of what Christ did, not because of what I do.

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I'm not saved by the quality of
the change in my life. I am

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saved by the perfection of Christ's life. That's that's the way it's supposed to

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work. So I believe that repentance
there is and that so called it's not

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a willingness to change, it's a
willingness to confess I'm a sinner. I

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can't do anything, and I trust
in Christ. That's the willingness. Well,

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God will forgive you if you're willing
to forsake you. What does it

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even mean? How do you even
know if you're willing if you just become

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00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.319
a Christian, you don't even know
what, if you're willing to forsake,

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you're not willing to forsake. You
may not even even understand all of the

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of God's standards as you when you
first become a Christian. Once you become

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a Christian, you're gonna go,
wait a minute, Okay, I'm supposed

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to forsake this. I'm supposed to
forsake that. This can be difficult.

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Well, you're never going to ultimately
forsake sin because you live in a perpetual

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state of it. So I think
that that's very important to understand, is

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that even the initial forgiveness that we
find in salvation, that comes through faith

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and whatever repentance there, it's a
change of mind. Don't make it a

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change of action. Don't even make
any willingness to change action. So it's

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a willingness to change your mind about
sin, about God, about Jesus,

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00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.880
and about salvation. That's what it's
referring to. And of course it obviously

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has to require a change of mind, right because before salvation, you were

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not believing in Jesus, you were
not believing things to be a sin.

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Now you're simply changing your mind agreeing
with all of that. That's where salvation

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00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:42.079
is found in the finished work of
Christ. Now, what about forgiveness after

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00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:45.960
salvation. Well, on one hand, let's make it very clear, you're

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00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:52.680
already forgiven. So from a from
a positional Salvafic point of view, from

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00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.839
a salvation point of view, you're
you're already forgiven. There's no more forgiveness

404
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.240
needed. You're perfect in Christ Jesus
in your position. But when we talk

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00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.759
about our practical life, do we
need forgiveness? Now this is where this

406
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:11.720
is what impacts our fellowship, our
walk with God. All right, our

407
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.799
salvation is already secure, we say, by grace alone, through faith alone,

408
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.839
because of Christler. But when it
comes to our fellowship, our followship,

409
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.960
our walking with God, there's going
to constantly be sin. So does

410
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.880
God withhold that forgiveness for your fellowship
unless you do this or this, or

411
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.000
unless you're willing to do this and
this. I think he forgives when we

412
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:40.720
confess and acknowledge. Hey, Lord, based off my positional standing in Christ,

413
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.000
based on what Christ has done for
me, I petition, I ask

414
00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:52.359
for that forgiveness to be to be
present in my walking with You as I

415
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.160
fall fall here or there or there
or there or sin here, sin here,

416
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.160
sin here, because you're a perpetual
state. Now, why do you

417
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:07.359
confess it when it comes to your
fellowship or your followship. I'm confessing it

418
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.960
in my daily life because i want
to continue to show God. I'm acknowledging

419
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.160
that I acknowledge that this is sin. I know I shouldn't be doing it,

420
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.279
and I'm I'm battling it and struggling
against it. But I need your

421
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:23.200
forgiveness as far as my fellowship is
concerned. And I don't think that once

422
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:30.400
again is some conditional thing. Hey, God will only forgive you if,

423
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:37.519
if, if, if you're willing
to forsake it again. That's that's such

424
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.519
a game. So because because this
is how the game is played, well,

425
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:45.960
if you're truly willing to forsake it, then ultimately you will forsake it.

426
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.279
But I'm telling you you're never going
to forsake all sin. No one's

427
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.039
going to be perfect. So then
does that mean God then withholds forgiveness for

428
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:04.640
your fellowship. If the whole thing
is we live by faith alone, by

429
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.039
grace alone, then faith then grace
has to be the key element here,

430
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:12.960
not my willingness to forsake. And
how do you even know if you're sincere

431
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.640
and claiming you're willing to forsake,
you don't even know how sincere you are,

432
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:22.000
because you have a sinful nature.
And I tell you, I can

433
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.599
tell you this about your sinful nature. Your sinful nature is never willing to

434
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.759
forsake. So even if part of
you is willing to forsake, your nature

435
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:34.799
will never be willing to forsake.
Now, I know some Christians believe in

436
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.039
the entire eradication of the old nature, but if the old nature is gone,

437
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:49.480
then all Christians should just be perfect. I think this whole thing becomes

438
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.960
majorly complicated. I'm gonna back it
up, play that begin intro again,

439
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.960
and then let him just get into
a little bit to see which direction he

440
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:59.079
goes. And then we're just gonna
look at some things from church history and

441
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.119
some different concepts about this. But
I think I've drawn a clear distinction.

442
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:08.319
There is the forgiveness of salvation that's
clearly by imputed righteousness Christ, propitiation,

443
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.680
propitiating the wrath of God on your
behalf, all of those things that we've

444
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:17.440
discussed. And then there's the forgiveness
for fellowship. But it's really the basis

445
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.400
of that forgiveness is what Christ has
done. I just need that forgiveness to

446
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.839
be applied now to this particular instant
instance. And if you start putting conditions

447
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.000
on that, well, then I
guess then nobody's going to be in fellowship

448
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:36.400
with God because you're always going to
be in some sin to some level.

449
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.319
I know Christians love to pretend that
that's not the case, but then you

450
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.599
have to lower the standards of God. And what we always do is reduce

451
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:52.200
sin to very specific acts. But
while we say well, I have forsaken

452
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:59.559
that sin, but you may not
have forsaken the sin internally. I don't

453
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:02.759
know why never can wrap their minds
around this. But let's play this part

454
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:06.480
again. We'll see where he goes. I'm going to play the intro again

455
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:10.320
and then we'll just kind of I'll
throw out some more thoughts here. All

456
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:21.079
right, here we go. God
has never promised to forgive one sin that

457
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.079
you are not willing to forsake.
Say well, I can think of some

458
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:29.159
sins I've fallen into many times.
Yeah, well, are you willing to

459
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.119
forsake it? Now? Welcome to
open the Bible Weekend with Pastor Colin Smith.

460
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.119
I'm Steve Hiller and Colin. That
is quite the statement. God has

461
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.559
never promised to forgive one sin that
you're not willing to forsake. I'll never

462
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:44.719
forget the time that I heard it. It was doctor Allan Redpath, who

463
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:47.679
at one time was the positive of
the Moody Church here in Chicago, and

464
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:51.960
he said that at a conference in
Britain. I was seventeen years old when

465
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.440
I heard him say that, and
it hit me between the eyes and brought

466
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:59.360
me up short. And you know, it's important to listen carefully to what

467
00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.079
the great men said. Yes,
he didn't say that God has never promised

468
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.440
to forgive one sin that you haven't
forsaken, because it is true that we

469
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:16.199
sometimes fall into a sin repeatedly.
Again, so it's not that sometimes we

470
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:22.840
fall into sin repeatedly. I cannot
stress this enough. We live in a

471
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:29.119
perpetual state of sin. Jesus in
the Sermon them Mount tells you to be

472
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:32.039
perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. You will never accomplish that. You

473
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.119
never will. You're in a perpetual
state of sin. Leviticus and Peter tells

474
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.760
us to be holy as He is
holy. You will never accomplish that.

475
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:43.000
You're in a perpetual state of sin. Jesus says on the Sermon on Them

476
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.280
Mount to love, or Jesus says
in the Gospel of Matthew, and other

477
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.360
gospels record it, love the Lord
that God with all your heart, mind,

478
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:52.760
body, and soul. You will
never accomplish that. Love your neighbor

479
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:54.880
as yourself. You will never accomplish
that. Those are just a few.

480
00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:00.199
You're in a perpetual state of sin. Oh, you don't just fall the

481
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.079
sin. You live in. Sin. Sin is any failure to conform to

482
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:08.360
the perfect holiness of God. You
do not conform to God's holiness and thought,

483
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:13.760
word, deed, desire, feeling, emotion. You're in a perpetual

484
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.880
state of sin. That's why my
only hope is the imputed, not infused,

485
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:22.360
imputed righteousness. So I stand perfect
in Christ. In my position,

486
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:25.800
in my life, it's sin sin
sin, sin, sin, sin,

487
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.320
sin, sin, sin sin.
It's not that you're going to fall into

488
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.320
it. You're always in it.
It's just a matter of it's not necessarily

489
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.039
that. Look, I fell into
this sin. Well, it's it's just

490
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.400
a manifestation, most likely of the
sin already inside of you. You're already

491
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.199
in sin in some way, shape
or form, even right now today.

492
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:52.679
You may not want to admit it, but you are. That's why the

493
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:58.239
whole forgiveness thing has to be based
off the imputed righteousness by faith in Christ.

494
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.320
As I've already outlined in this episode. I'm not going to repeat it

495
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.639
again. I mean I could repeat
it a thousand times, because I think

496
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:08.559
evangelical Christianity has completely lost its mind
and in so many ways, I know

497
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.719
evangelical Christians don't Evangelical even fundamentalists Christians
don't like to acknowledge this. They have

498
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:19.440
reverted back to a Roman Catholic perspective
almost of an infused righteousness, and have

499
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:23.519
rejected the imputed righteousness concept that is
so was so critical to the Reformation.

500
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:30.599
Imputed Christ propitiated your sins. He
satisfied the wrath of God for your sins.

501
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:35.000
I mean, everything Christ did,
it's perfect, it's finished, it's

502
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.679
done right. The law shows me
what I'm supposed to do, and it

503
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.440
demonstrates I can never do it.
Therefore I'm in a perpetual state of sin.

504
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.400
But when I go to Christ by
grace alone, through faith alone,

505
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:50.199
then it's not like, well,
you've got to do this, or you've

506
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.480
got to do this. No,
Chris, it's all based on what Christ

507
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:55.199
did, not what I can or
can't do because I will never do it.

508
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.039
So I don't like that idea.
Well, you know, well there's

509
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.519
gonna be some sense we continue to
fall into. We're always in sin.

510
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:09.400
That's we've got to start from that
perspective. And again I don't know what

511
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:14.079
it means. Well, God won't
forgive you if you're not willing to forsake.

512
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:17.239
What does that even mean? Willing
to forsake? Is it just what?

513
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:22.360
But hey, he never said that
he won't forgive you if you don't

514
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:27.119
forsake, just that you have to
be willing to forsake. And I it's

515
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:32.960
such a like he just seems like
just something you're supposed to say. And

516
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.119
many, many times what he said
was that God is not ready to forgive

517
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.480
one sin that you're not willing to
foreseek. In other words, I can't

518
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.840
say I'm going to press right ahead
and carry on doing the same thing again

519
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.280
and at the same time repent and
expect that God is going to forgive me.

520
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:54.599
And doctor Redpath was touching the great
truth of Isaiah chapter fifty five,

521
00:38:55.119 --> 00:39:00.960
where God says, let the wicked
for seek his way and the righteous man

522
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:06.159
his thoughts. And so this speaks
into the heart of repentance that in coming

523
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.199
to God and asking for his forgiveness, I've got to bring what I've done,

524
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:12.480
I've got to place it into his
hands, and I've got to say,

525
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:17.840
by your grace, i am not
going there again. Well, if

526
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.800
by your grace I'm not going to
go there again, well, then God's

527
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:30.199
grace should then allow all Christians to
be perfect. Oh wait, no one

528
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:36.199
will be perfect. I don't know
how this works. Then now I've got

529
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.800
to be willing to come to God
with a change mind, acknowledging that these

530
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.239
are sins, place it in his
hands, and then realize that my salvation

531
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:49.000
is based off in imputed righteousness and
what I am in Christ's positionally, but

532
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:54.840
in practice, I'm going to continue
to sin in some way, shape or

533
00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:00.199
form, And if God wanted to, he could rem move the sinful nature

534
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:06.320
and we could be perfect. But
every almost other than some holiness movements,

535
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:14.559
almost every form of Christianity and every
stream of theology acknowledges we continue to sin

536
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:20.519
and we cannot be perfect. If
I can't be perfect, then I'm in

537
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:27.840
a perpetual state of sin by definition, because God demands perfection. Any shortcoming

538
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:34.639
of forget of perfection is sin because
God's standard, I fall short of his

539
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:44.360
standard perpetually. Okay, I don't
understand why that's so complicated for the Christian

540
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:49.800
mind. It's like we've got to
we've turned Christianity in such into such a

541
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:57.400
moralistic system instead of being a philological
system or theistic. It's moralistic. Just

542
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:01.400
morality, morality, morality, morality. Now, God's law is morality,

543
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:07.920
which demonstrates we cannot keep it.
Therefore, that's when we need well imputed

544
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:12.480
righteousness. That's what Luther understood.
Luther understood, I can't I confess a

545
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.239
thousand times and I have a thousand
more sins to confess fifteen minutes later.

546
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:21.440
That's why Luther was losing his mind, and that's why he finally had to

547
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.679
come to the understanding it's by faith
alone, grace alone. It's not by

548
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:30.360
what I do or don't do.
If God's forgiveness, it's dependent on my

549
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:35.159
willingness to do the right thing.
Well, I'm in trouble because there's always

550
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.559
a part of me that's not willing. Look if I was one hundred percent

551
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:42.159
willing to always do the right thing. You think at some point all that

552
00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:46.440
willingness and God's grace and all the
supposed help and strength we supposedly have would

553
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:52.000
get all Christians to perfection. But
nobody gets to perfection. I wonder why.

554
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.480
Well, we have a sinful nature
that's never willing, So there's always

555
00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:00.280
a part of me that's not willing. Therefore, then God doesn't withhold all

556
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.400
forgiveness from me. Is he only
withholding forgiveness in my fellowship with him?

557
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.719
Or is he withholding forgiveness in my
salvation? Well, then everyone's going to

558
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:16.079
hell. God has wonderful grace for
us, even if we've come with the

559
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:22.119
sem sin that's been committed many times. But you can't come and let go

560
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.320
of what you're not willing to forsake. Well, we're going to be in

561
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:28.719
Matthew chapter twenty one to day.
Grab a Bible. Join us there as

562
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:34.599
we continue this message finding the hidden
path to a transform life. Here's Pastor

563
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:38.880
Gollin. We start with this story
in Matthew and chapter twenty one, where

564
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:45.840
Jesus speaks specifically about repentance. Hope
you have it open in front of you.

565
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:51.400
What do you think? Jesus says, there was a man who had

566
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.159
two sons. He went to the
first and said, son, go and

567
00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:04.679
worked today in the vineyard. I
will not, he answered, But later

568
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:08.559
he changed his mind. Now literally
the word that is repented. Later he

569
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:17.280
repented once again. Repentance is a
change of mind. I look, it's

570
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:22.679
crazy. Two thousand years into church
history there's still no agreement on repentance.

571
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:25.960
It well, it's a change of
mind, but it's a change of mind

572
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:29.800
that leads to a change of behavior. So you haven't really repented unless you

573
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:31.960
change your behavior. Okay, Well, then if if I'm going to judge

574
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.199
my repentance based off my change of
behavior, and I continue sin because everyone

575
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.079
continues to sin and nobody gets to
perfection, then do we call everyone's repentance

576
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:46.320
into question. No, it's a
change of mind. Where I now acknowledge,

577
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:51.360
Lord, I am a sinner.
These are sins. I do not

578
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.920
justify them, I do not excuse
them. I acknowledge, and I know.

579
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.400
My only hope is in what you
have done for me. Because I

580
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:05.159
cannot do it. I have to
stand in an imputed righteousness, not an

581
00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:09.039
confused one. Imputed meaning I'm declared
to be that which I will never be.

582
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.159
All right, so I repentance.
It is a change of mind,

583
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:19.400
but everybody people will acknowledge it to
change of mind, but then they immediately

584
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:21.679
want to add more to it.
But it will do this, and it

585
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:22.519
will do this, and it will
do this, and it will do this.

586
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:29.280
There was a change of mind,
but that change of mind comes inside

587
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:36.320
a person who still has a sinful
nature, meaning you're still going to sin.

588
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:42.000
That's why nobody can be perfect,
even though you've changed your mind.

589
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:50.599
He changed his mind and went.
Then the father went to the other son

590
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:52.719
and said the same thing, and
he answered, I will, sir,

591
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:59.880
but he did not go. Jesus
asks verse thirty one, which of the

592
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:07.400
two did what his father wanted first? They answered, And Jesus said to

593
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:09.719
them, I tell you the truth. The tax collectors and the prostitutes,

594
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.920
that is, people who would be
perceived to be miles away from God and

595
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:19.800
the things of God. These people
are entering the Kingdom of God ahead of

596
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:24.079
you. Jesus says, for John
Kim to you to show you the way

597
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:29.519
of righteousness. And you did not
believe him. But the tax collectors and

598
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:35.400
the prostitutes did, and even after
you saw this, you did not repent

599
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:44.800
and believe him. See who's going
into the kingdom first, the tax collectors,

600
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.440
the harlots enter the Kingdom of God
before you. Why because the tax

601
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:53.880
collectors and the harlots changed their mind
acknowledge that they were sinners and believed in

602
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:58.559
Christ, because they knew they needed
some help, because they were in trouble.

603
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.679
Meaning and I know what people say, well, no, no,

604
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:05.519
no, no, no, no, no no no. See they were

605
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.920
tax collectors and heartless, but then
they stopped everything and they were all then

606
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:14.280
perfect. No, no, no, it doesn't ever work that way.

607
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:19.800
You're still going to be a sinner. Your salvation is not based on your

608
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:25.199
stopping sinning or lack of sinning or
doing better. Your salvation is dependent on

609
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:30.880
the perfection of Christ and how he
obeyed everything for you. Now, I

610
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:32.400
know. Immediately people like, but
there's got to be a change, There's

611
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.199
got to be a change, there's
got to be a change. Well,

612
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:39.039
then you start you start judging the
change on some weird, slippery scale where

613
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:43.559
you're pointing out certain sins but ignoring
other sins, and you're forgetting the fact

614
00:46:43.639 --> 00:46:45.960
that even if you stop doing these
certain sins, you're still in a perpetual

615
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:58.119
state of sin that the whole concept
gets so confused. Now, we may

616
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:01.519
come back and review more of this, but we're already at forty seven minutes.

617
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:05.760
So what I want to do is
just kind of break this discussion down

618
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:08.400
from the entry. I just want
to use that introduction more than anything,

619
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:12.480
right, and you can look at
the rest of that passage, and we

620
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:15.480
can I know we the debate will
go on forever. It's been going on

621
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:19.519
for two thousand years. But let's
just look at some things, all right.

622
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:25.679
When we talk about forgiveness, all
right, the early Church definitely had

623
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.880
an idea of forgiveness by works and
conditions, and at certain times in the

624
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:35.639
Early Church and the Early Church,
baptism was considered a means by which sins

625
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:39.280
were forgiven. Acts two thirty eight, where Peter encourages repentance and baptism for

626
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.039
the remissions of sins, influenced this
view. So Acts two thirty eight became

627
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:46.079
very influential, and they're like,
Okay, how do I get forgiveness?

628
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:50.039
Well, you have to bab you
have to be baptized, and then repentance,

629
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:52.119
and then in many cases, repentance
became to be not so much a

630
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:57.280
change of mind, but a change
of action. So then so then that

631
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.679
becomes of course, you know,
then the genuine again I reviewed if you

632
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:05.119
go listen to our series on the
Sermon on the Mount I reviewed in a

633
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.679
part of a sermon series from a
church in Nebratno church in Iowa. One

634
00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:15.440
of the pastor's entire thesis was,
the genuineness of your repentance is dependent on

635
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.199
your obedience to the Sermon on the
Mount. If you don't obey the Sermon

636
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.320
on the Mount, you did not
repent. Therefore you were not saved.

637
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:24.960
So the way you know you're saved
is based off your obedience to the Sermon

638
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.880
on the Mount. That is the
most like none. That is so Catholic,

639
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:36.199
it's not even funny. That's not
salvation by grace alone, through faith

640
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:38.639
alone, because of Christ alone.
That's not a salvation based off imputed righteousness.

641
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.960
So that's kind of was the early
church's perspective. They developed a system

642
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.519
over time that was over successive generations
that added more works such as penance,

643
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.599
alms giving, and other rituals to
atone for sins. The system applied that

644
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:57.800
human effort played a role in forgiveness. So over time, the early church

645
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.920
began to develop a system what forgiveness. You gotta do this, you gotta

646
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.800
do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta

647
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:05.400
do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, then maybe

648
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:12.840
God will forgive you over time.
Over time, the whole system becomes corrupted,

649
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.239
and the system led to a view
where the atonement of Christ was seen

650
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:21.719
as symbolic and almost irrelevant, where
man's works overshadowed the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice.

651
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:27.159
And it became a very works based
system, very works based, and

652
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:32.199
much of evangelicalism has followed very much
into a very works based system. Now,

653
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:36.880
now the difference is we play this
semantics game, right, Hey,

654
00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:38.880
you don't have to work to be
saved, but if you don't work,

655
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:43.039
you prove you were never saved.
Meaning I have to do the work in

656
00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.199
order to be safe. No no, no, no, you have to

657
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:46.679
work to do the work to prove
you're safe. But if I don't do

658
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:49.760
the work, then I'm not safe. Right, So I have to do

659
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.480
the work to be safe. No
no, no, no no. You

660
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.960
just have to do the work to
prove you're safe. So how much work

661
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:57.000
do I have to do to prove
I'm safe? Well, then you get

662
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:00.199
the John MacArthur test or the Jonathan
Edwards test. Wretched radio. They have

663
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.320
a test that everyone has their twelve
thirteen point tests. You look at the

664
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:07.039
test and then it's always like,
well, you have to do this,

665
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.800
but but but but no one's going
to do it perfectly. Well you have

666
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:13.480
to do this, but but but
but no one's going to do this perfectly.

667
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:15.840
You have to do this, but
but no one's going to do it

668
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:20.199
perfectly. So wait a minute,
have to end perfectly pass this test in

669
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.480
order to prove I'm saved? Why
do I have to look to a test

670
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:29.079
that I'm not going to perfectly pass
in order to prove that I'm saved When

671
00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:32.480
everything in the Reformation would tell me
I look to Christ, who whatever tests

672
00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:37.360
you give me, he passed it
perfectly for me. So if you want

673
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:42.440
the proof of my salvation and you
say works, prove salvation, Christ works,

674
00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:47.159
prove my salvation, not my works, Because whatever works you show me,

675
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:53.320
I'm going to fall short of in
some way, shape or form.

676
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:57.840
You tell me to love God,
I'm never going to love him perfectly,

677
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:04.039
because that would require a perfect love
that's externally shown and internally real. I'm

678
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.559
gonna fall short. I'm not gonna
love my neighbor the way I'm supposed to.

679
00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:07.960
I'm not going to be holy as
God is holy. I'm not gonna

680
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:13.880
love God's word more than gold and
silver and food, on and on and

681
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:22.639
on and on and on and on
and on and on and on. So

682
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:24.480
that was kind of the early Church, and I believe many of those ideas

683
00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:29.360
are still prevalent even within evangelicalism.
Who will say that we're saved by grace

684
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:31.039
alone, through faith alone, because
of Christ alone. But then there's almost

685
00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:37.440
a but, however, you've got
to do ABCDEFG. Well, no Christ

686
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:43.280
did a B C D E FG
for me, all right. Then there's

687
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:47.440
the idea of forgiveness and faith alone
and an imputed righteousness. During the Reformation

688
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:52.599
in the fifteen hundreds, Martin Luther
emphasized justification by faith alone. This view

689
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:57.639
asserts that forgiveness as a gift of
God's grace received through faith in Christ.

690
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:01.159
How do I receive forgiveness faith in
Christ. I don't have to do anything

691
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:05.280
for it. I just believe in
Christ and then we believe that that faith

692
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:08.400
is a gift from God. God
gives me the faith and I receive forgiveness

693
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.039
through that faith. That faith is
not even of me, It's all a

694
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:15.920
work of God. And I believe
that when it comes to forgiveness and my

695
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:22.880
fellowship, it's simply me acknowledging to
God that I'm sinning in this area.

696
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:28.559
But I believe in Jesus Christ,
and based off His finished work, I

697
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:32.000
need you to forgive me and this
fellowship issue. My salvation is already done,

698
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:38.280
but in my daily life it's still
based off that imputed righteousness. Imputed

699
00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:43.679
righteousness is the view God forgives sins
and imputes christ righteousness to believers. This

700
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:47.119
means that Christ's perfect obedience and sacrifice
cover our sins and we are declared righteous

701
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:55.039
before God. All right. I
mean, that's to me, is what

702
00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:00.719
the issue we're supposed to focus on, not these other ideas. Now,

703
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:07.880
I'm just from other sources. Many
conditions for forgiveness. This is the conditional

704
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:12.480
view. Advocates of this view believe
that individuals must meet specific conditions such as

705
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.800
repentance, confession of sins, asking
for forgiveness, and seeking reconciliation with God

706
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:20.639
and others in order to be forgiven. You've got to do this. You've

707
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:22.400
got to do this. You've got
to do this. You've got to do

708
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.119
this. You've got to do this. And I will say no, I

709
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:28.599
have to believe in Christ. You
say, well, you've got to repent.

710
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:34.159
That's simply changing my mind about sin
and about God believing in him,

711
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:39.039
and there is forgiveness. So that's
the condition view. There's the emphasis on

712
00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:45.440
personal responsibility. This perspective in church
history places a strong emphasis on personal responsibility

713
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:50.840
and accountability for one's actions. It
highlights the needs for individuals to actively participate

714
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:54.800
and the process of seeking forgiveness.
There's the human effort view. There is

715
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:59.760
an acknowledgment of the role of human
effort and the process of forgiveness. Individuals

716
00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:06.280
are expected to take certain actions or
fulfill certain requirements to receive forgiveness from God.

717
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:12.239
So there's conditions human responsibility, human
effort. That's what many in the

718
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:14.679
evangelical world. Hey, you got
to do this, you got to do

719
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:15.559
this. You've got to be willing
to do this. You got to and

720
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:20.519
no, I've got to put my
I've got to focus on what Christ did,

721
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:29.960
because whatever I do will be completely
inadequate. Faith alone view. Proponents

722
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.519
of this view emphasized that forgiveness is
received by faith alone, apart from any

723
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:37.079
works or conditions that individuals must fulfill. They believe that faith in Christ is

724
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:42.800
the sole requirement for forgiveness, and
I don't know how you If you reject

725
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.800
that, I don't know where you
end up. Imputed righteousness. This perspective

726
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:52.000
emphasizes the concept of imputed righteousness,
where believers are considered righteous in the eyes

727
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.599
of God, not based on their
own actions or merits, but on the

728
00:54:54.719 --> 00:55:00.239
righteousness of Christ credited to them.
Grace and unconditional. The focus is on

729
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.000
the grace and unconditional love of God, who freely forgives and accepts believers solely

730
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:07.760
on the basis of their faith in
Christ. There is an emphasis on the

731
00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:13.840
unmerited nature of forgiveness. Both perspectives
acknowledge the importance of forgiveness in Christian faith

732
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:19.599
and the need for reconciliation with God. Right, and then you have the

733
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:25.280
many conditions views may stress the need
for sacrifice specific actions, and we've already

734
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:29.159
talked about the many conditions views.
That's some of that's repetitive of what I've

735
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:39.000
already said, are from two different
sources. So how do you understand it?

736
00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:42.760
Because I think a lot of Christians
like, Okay, I know God

737
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:45.119
will forgive me, But what if
I do this, or what if I

738
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:46.719
do this? Or what if I
do that? Or what if I do

739
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:49.679
this? Or what if I keep
doing this? What if I keep doing

740
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:52.119
that? Or what if I keep
doing this? I think people, I

741
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.559
think it's always weird within Christiandom.
This is what I've always seen, all

742
00:55:55.639 --> 00:56:00.480
right, this is my view.
I think what happens, This is my

743
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:07.480
own personal feelings. There are many
within christiendom, and this seems to have

744
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:12.760
always been true. Luther encountered the
same thing. They're always Those within Christiandom

745
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:21.639
who seem not to be very sensitive
are willing to acknowledge just how far they

746
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:27.960
fall short daily and their thoughts,
their words, their minds, their actions,

747
00:56:28.159 --> 00:56:32.480
their desires. For some reason,
they convince themselves that they reach some

748
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:38.639
level of godliness and righteousness that not
only proves their safe but they don't even

749
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:45.440
question it because of their actions.
They almost live I hate I'm going to

750
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.079
acknowledge. I'm going to just say
it. They live in a sense of

751
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:52.880
denial. They tend to be very
self righteous. They tend to look down

752
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:55.119
on everyone else. They want to
talk about everyone else, they want to

753
00:56:55.119 --> 00:57:00.519
condemn everyone else, and they always
seem to perceive somehow that they are better

754
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:02.679
than everyone else. To someone.
They may not say those words, but

755
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:08.039
it comes across in their attitudes,
their action, their condemnation, their judgment,

756
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:15.320
their arrogance. It's just it's just
all through them, because they and

757
00:57:15.639 --> 00:57:19.239
they have they almost have to convince
themselves that they reach a certain level of

758
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.079
righteousness because somehow that proves that they're
saved. They will look to their life

759
00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:27.079
to prove that they're saved, which
is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard

760
00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:30.119
of in my life. Why would
you look to your imperfect life to prove

761
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:34.320
salvation when you could better off look
to the perfection of Christ to prove your

762
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:37.440
salvation, which is where we're supposed
to look in the first place. But

763
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:40.519
when you start looking to your own
life convincing yourself of how good you are,

764
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:45.000
you become phariseical. You become like
the Pharisees and the Sadducees, looking

765
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:49.719
down on everyone else, perceiving your
righteousness, and you can't even perceive how

766
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:53.960
unrighteous you are. And if someone
comes along and says he, I want

767
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:58.760
you to know the tax collectors and
the harlots are getting into the Kingdom of

768
00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:00.920
God before you, you'll be like, no, that's cheap grace. Oh

769
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:07.480
absolutely not. That's that's that's easy
believism. There's no way. Well,

770
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:09.440
I'm getting in first because look at
how godly I am. You get in

771
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:15.800
because of what Christ did, not
because of what you do. But people

772
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:16.199
have a heart. No no,
no, no, no no no.

773
00:58:16.639 --> 00:58:20.440
I may get in because of what
Christ did, but if Christ did it,

774
00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:22.119
then I'm going to be this,
this, this and this, and

775
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:28.920
then it's always about self. There's
just those who cannot acknowledge just how messed

776
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:36.480
up they are. When I did
not watch it, but I saw a

777
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:40.480
lot of the clips about the debate, but the debate between Trump and Joe

778
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:45.079
Biden, I did not watch it. Can't stand politics, hate politics,

779
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:51.239
you know my view on that.
But I saw the clips and I was

780
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:57.400
sad first just because of the way
both of them acted. It's just like

781
00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:02.360
our country is doomed. But I
was really broken and sad for just how

782
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:09.400
Joe Biden like my goodness, Just
how how age just utterly eats you away

783
00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:14.000
and destroys you and and you're not
what you were, right, I mean

784
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:16.039
he was. He just looked like
the shell of a man that he was.

785
00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:20.119
I mean, it was just,
oh, forget, forget what you

786
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.719
think about anyone's politics. Just from
a human perspective, it's just so sad

787
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:28.800
to see his frailty, his weakness, his confusion. He seemed like it

788
00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:32.480
was just he just looked like a
broken man. And I think, what,

789
00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:37.199
But at the same time, it's
hard for our probably now. I

790
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.039
think the next day he did acknowledge, Hey, I'm getting old and I'm

791
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:42.480
not as good as I used to
be. He did acknowledge it to some

792
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:45.639
level, but he's still not willing
to step down. And I think in

793
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:49.199
many cases that that's kind of like
what a lot of a lot of Christians

794
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:52.920
we were kind of like this broken
Joe Biden. But we won't We don't

795
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.559
want to admit it. We don't
want to ignowl. We don't want to

796
00:59:55.599 --> 01:00:00.199
admit our weakness, our frailty,
our sin, cover it up in robes

797
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:04.559
of self righteousness, thinking that we
don't need anything and that we are good.

798
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:09.039
That is detrimental to one's spiritual life. I think there's always been those

799
01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:14.800
in Christianity who just can't acknowledge how
messed up they are. They always want

800
01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:17.280
to look at how good they are. You're not as good as you think

801
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:22.079
you are. You're worse than you
even know that you are. Because God

802
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:27.639
judges not just the external, but
the internal. You may look all great

803
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:31.039
externally, but man internally, you
know that things are so are far worse.

804
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:35.440
And if forgiveness is based on what
you do or willing to do,

805
01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:40.719
forgiveness is based on what Christ did. It's better to acknowledge how sinful you

806
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:45.719
are and run to the grace of
Christ and focus on his imputed righteousness.

807
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:53.320
Then pretend to be something you're not
and focus on your very messed up righteousness.

808
01:00:55.159 --> 01:00:59.320
So I think that there's some in
Christianity who just can't seem to acknowledge

809
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:04.719
it. I think the others in
Christianity who are so sensitive to their sin.

810
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:07.920
Now, they may keep sinning,
but they're very sensitive to it.

811
01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:12.800
They know it. They know how
messed up they are. They know that

812
01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:15.920
they're messed up in thought, word, deed. They know that they're messed

813
01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:22.760
up internally. Externally. They know
they are sinners. They know. Now

814
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.119
you may argue, well they should
do better, maybe they should, but

815
01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:30.000
they're very broken over it. They
do know that they are sinners, and

816
01:01:30.039 --> 01:01:34.719
I think for them, they constantly
live in fear of like, well,

817
01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:36.719
then am I ever going to be
forgiven? Because I don't know if I'm

818
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:38.440
really willing to stop sinning because I
keep sinning and I don't know if.

819
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:44.199
And they're a constant state of fear. It's like some no fear thinking they're

820
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:46.760
great because they look at their own
actions. And then others are so broken,

821
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.639
constantly state of fear that they're never
going to be forgiven, They're never

822
01:01:50.679 --> 01:01:52.719
going to go to heaven, and
how could they truly be saved because they

823
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:55.280
do this and they think this,
and they desire this and they want this

824
01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:59.159
they and they're like, I don't
know what I'm gonna do. Look both,

825
01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:01.559
you know what, both sides need
both types of people. The one

826
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:08.000
needs to be broken and see their
sin and be driven to Christ and finally

827
01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:14.119
realize it's based off imputed righteousness,
not infused righteousness, really embrace the Gospel

828
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:17.320
of grace. And then those who
are so aware of their sin they need

829
01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:27.159
to find peace and comfort in what
Christ has done. I don't think is

830
01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:34.719
I don't think it's God will forgive
you. If God forgives you in Christ

831
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:42.119
Jesus by faith alone, you can
add repentance as long as you say repentance

832
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:45.960
is a change of mind, and
God has to give you the change of

833
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:52.760
mind. So really, forgiveness is
all the work of God because it's based

834
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:57.719
off what Christ has done, and
then God gives us the faith and the

835
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:00.239
repentance. We believe it's all the
work God. I know that's a more

836
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:05.000
monegistic view, and I know others
are more synergistic, but then well then

837
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:07.679
that becomes then well, that can
become a whole issue we can get into.

838
01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:13.039
So I just I just reject this
idea that God will only forgive you

839
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:19.840
if you're willing to forsake. I
don't even know what that means. God

840
01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:24.800
forgives me done period. Should I
be willing to forsake, yes? Should

841
01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:29.360
I want to do the right thing, yes? Should I desire to do

842
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:32.280
the right thing, yes, But
if we're painfully honest, there's times I

843
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:36.239
don't want to do the right thing. There's times I don't desire to do

844
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.760
the right thing, and there's times
I'm going to continue to well, well,

845
01:03:39.880 --> 01:03:44.079
I'm just almost messed up. It's
not that times I'm going to continue

846
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:59.159
and sin. I'm always in sin
to some level. Now, maybe we'll

847
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:01.199
review that more, or we'll do
it just a full review of it.

848
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.559
Maybe at some point we're already a
sixty four minutes, so I can't go

849
01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:10.280
back to the audio. So love
to get your thoughts. I know there's

850
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:13.400
going to be massive disagreements. I
know there's going to be massive disagreements,

851
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:16.239
but that's okay. You can email
me your disagreement to news I F at

852
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:20.840
yahoo dot com. NEWSI F at
Yahoo dot com. You can tell me

853
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:25.199
how much you disagree, and that's
perfectly okay. But I'm just going to

854
01:04:25.239 --> 01:04:29.280
be very blunt with you. You
can argue with me all day. By

855
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:31.960
all means, you live your life
focused on your righteousness and how good you

856
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:35.960
are, and proving your righteousness by
what you do, proving your salvation by

857
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.840
what you do. By all means, you just live that way. I

858
01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:43.480
don't know how you pull that off, because you must either truly be better

859
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:46.360
than you think you are, or
maybe you're just living a lot. I

860
01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:54.400
don't know. But as for me, I'm not gonna I'm gonna focus on

861
01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:59.760
what Christ did. My hope is
in what Christ did. My forgiveness is

862
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:01.360
not based on what I will do, can do, willing to do.

863
01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:08.119
My forgiveness is based on what Christ
did perfectly. My hope, assurance,

864
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:12.280
and peace is in the finished work
of Christ, and in his righteousness and

865
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:16.159
in his obedience, not in mind. Whatever tests you give me to prove

866
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:19.360
that I'm saved, you can just
take that test right up to Jesus and

867
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.920
hand it to him, and I
will get a passing grade because He did

868
01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:28.840
it all for me. All right, Thanks for listening. You can email

869
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:33.760
me at newsif at yahoo dot com. That's NEWSI f at yahoo dot com.

870
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.559
Everyone have a great Saturday. God
bless