Discouragement and Depression

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central well. As many of you know if you listen to this broadcast, I have a tendency to wear my emotions on my sleeve. Is that the right phrase? I tend to be very open with my emotions, and as you hear, I can get very emotional. Right when I'm reviewing a sermon. You can hear my frustration, you can hear my irritation. Sometimes you hear my discouragement. Sometimes you hear my depression. Sometimes you hear me basically say that's it. I give up, I retire, I'm done. And it seems that over the past I don't maybe week or so, some of you listening have started to detect that I got an email today and he said something along the lines he said, don't be discouraged or I'm sorry for your discouragement. I can't remember his exact words, but something along those lines.

1:10 And I'm like, man, I think the people listening are starting to hear a little bit of discouragement. And I'm like, well, you know, in some ways that's a good thing, right, because I want to be very real. The last thing I want to do is turn on the microphone and say, hey, good morning, good afternoon. Everyone welcome, let's open our bibles. God is good, everything is wonderful, everything is great. But then behind the scenes, I don't feel that, and I'm not being truly authentic or real. So I try to be as authentic as real as I can be. I try. I mean, I try to tell people constantly that I'm just a sinner with a microphone trying to figure out life and trying to figure out Christianity. And I think that struggle and that realism comes across in some way and what I do. But but so I think there's a strength in that. I think there's a good thing.

2:04 It can also be negative though as well. Right, it can be a negative thing because then sometimes you have to go, well, if you're really feeling this way, do you just then you know, produce broadcast after broadcasting, guys, I just I'm down and I'm depressed and I'm discouraged and I want to give up. That's not that's not good for broadcasting and all that. That's just that's not so how do you manage it? When do you when are you real? When when do you just move on? How do you handle it? And I think sometimes the best thing to do is, well kind of just how about just talk about it? How about just discuss discuss it. See I'm already met I I I told myself I can't make one mistake, all right, but yeah, I already did.

2:50 Maybe sometimes the best thing to do is just kind of talk about it. So maybe in this episode, I don't know who it's going to be. Either you're going to be sitting there in the chair with your notebook and I'm going to be laying on the couch telling you all about my problems. Or maybe I'm gonna be sitting in the chair with the notepad and you're gonna be laying on the couch talking about your prom I don't know. Maybe we're just this is just gonna be I don't know, an episode of the Theology Central Counseling Program. I don't know. I don't know what we're gonna We're gonna talk about well, discouragement depression, and we're gonna hopefully it will benefit you and it will benefit me because if I can just talk about some of it, then maybe maybe then we can just move on and even and even if I'm still frustrated or depressed or discouraged.

3:42 The good thing is I've already gotten it off my chest, right, So then when I if I and the next episode of like, all right, everyone open your bibles, let's go to Isaiah forty two and talk about a new interpretation. I'm not feeling like I'm being faked because I've already gotten it out. I've already I've already said it right, So then it feels more. It feels like I can In other words, I feel free, right because I don't want to just say, hey, everyone open up your bibles and turn to Isaiah forty two when reality, I want to say, I don't care right, like you know, So then if I get it out off my chest, then I feel I can move forward. So this is me. Maybe this is just yeah, I'm going to be laying on the couch. You're going to be taking the notes, but hopefully somehow you'll benefit as well. So I say all of that to say, we're going to be talking about discouragement and depression, and we'll do that after I give you a proper introduction. Good afternoon, everyone. It is Thursday, April third, twenty twenty five. It is currently twelve forty nine pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas.

4:54 So the reality is, yes, I've been discouraged. Maybe even goes so far to say maybe there's been some depression. That's the reality. To deny that would be would just be to be a liar. And I'm not afraid to admit that, right, I think it's okay to admit that. And you've heard some of my discouragement. You've heard some of it, you know, maybe in the middle of a broadcast, maybe by the end of a broadcast, maybe even in how I'm broadcasting, so maybe you've heard a little bit of it. So that's what we're going to talk about it. We're just gonna We're just gonna go into this straightforward, all right. So let's start with some definitions. How do we define discouragement? Right, Because I don't know about you.

5:44 I'm guessing there's times in your life you are discouraged and if you're not, most likely, you know, discouragement is fast, you know, is driving quickly to your house and it will arrive at some point. So what is a general definition of discouragement. Discouragement is typically defined as a temporary emotional state marked by a loss of confidence. That's not good. If you're a broadcaster, I can tell you that that's not good. If you're a pastor, that's not good for your job, that's not good for a lot of things. A loss of confidence. Oh, here's not a good thing.

6:24 Here's something that's not good. So it's a temporary emotional state marked by a loss of confidence, a loss of motivation that's not good, a loss of hope due to unmet expectations. It's also marked by setbacks, are prolonged difficulties. So if you find yourself in an emotional state where it's marked by man, you're just losing your confidence, You're losing your motivation. You may just be using hope due to unmet expectations, maybe unmet needs, unmet desires, and you start getting discouraged. And this can be marked by setbacks or just you're having a prolog, You're you're you find yourself in a prolonged difficult situation. It just continues and it continues and it continues. All of that can lead to discouragement. Right, you have unspect you know unmet desires, unmet expectations, something you you want, you need, or you just you expect it to be this way and it's just never is going to be that way. You can start getting discouraged. So I think everyone you should write that definition down and just put it somewhere. Put it on the refrigerator. What is discouragement. It is a temporary emotional state marked by a loss of confidence, a loss of motivation, a loss uh. It can be marked by

7:57 a loss of hope due to unmet expectations. It can be marked by setbacks are prolonged difficulties. Now, if we look at it from a biblical perspective, discouragement is often described in scripture through imagery like fainting, being cast down, or losing heart. That's more of the biblical description fainting, being cast down, losing heart. Here's some scriptures like go to Psalm forty two five, Psalm forty two five. Psalm forty two five. We look at Psal forty two five, We read these words, why art thou cast down, oh my soul, And why art thou disquieted in me? Hope thou, when God for us, sho yet praise Him for the help of his countenance. Now we can get into the whole part there, but just listen to that. Why art thou cast down? That's typically kind of more of the biblical idea of discouragement. You're cast down? How about Galatians chapter six, Galatians chapter six, Galatians chapter six, Galatians chapter six, and let us not be weary and well doing all right?

9:22 Being weary, being weary, the idea of being weary is also the idea of kind of being discouraged. It's kind of the same concept if we look at Second Corinthians, Second Corinthians. Second Corinthians. Oh yeah, we faint not. Second Corinthians, Chapter four, Verse one. Therefore, seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not. So this idea of fainting, being cast down being that's the idea of being discouraged. We've all experienced that. You can experience that in a million ways. This is something that Christians experience, non Christians experience. We experience this temporary emotional state marked by a loss of confidence, motivation, or hope due to unmad expectations, setbacks, and you just find yourself in prolonged difficulty.

10:24 The difficulty never stops, the situation never gets better. In fact, you know it's only going to get worse. Well, you can begin to lose heart, you can begin to get weary, you can begin to faint, you can be cast down. It reflects basically the weariness of the soul and the face of opposition, failure, or delay. Now, some of the key traits of discouragement is it's usually short term or situational. It's very Usually you can take discouragement and point to a very specific thing, right, it's this situation, it's this, it's this. So therefore it can be short term if that situation is quickly resolved. Now, if it's not quickly resolved, then the discouragement can become more long term. It's very much connected to a situation. Usually you can point to, well, that could cause discouragement. Well, obviously that could be discouraging. Well, obviously that could be discouraging. It's typically triggered by specific events rejection, failure, slow progress, or it's no progress at all in this situation, or it's getting worse or or this is not going to happen and you don't have this, and you're very very I mean, it's very clearly triggered by specific things. It can lead to temporary loss or motivation or perspective. You can kind of lose motivation and

11:55 you can just lose your perspective. Your perspective gets all messed up. You may not see things accurately because you're discouraged. Now I'm talking to myself here, So now I think I'm like, I'm laying on the couch and I'm sitting in the chair talking to myself on the couch. Because sometimes then my perspective, let's say, even about broadcasting, can I may not have an accurate perspective because discouragement causes you to lose that perspective and lose that motivation. I'm just attaching it to broadcasting. It can be a number of issues in my life. A lot of times discouragement is resolved with rest. Yeah, okay, all right, Now you're sitting in the chair. I'm on the couch, and I just got up and I took your notebook and I just threw it across the room like you're fired. I'm not going to rest. Don't tell me to rest. Who do you think you are? You quack? Okay, all right, okay, okay, but typically they say that encouragement, it's amazing what encouragement can do when you're discouraged. Encouragement can build you up, right, So, but then encouragement can well, well I could get in all more philosophical, but okay, truth now that's sometimes hard, right because other people will come along go but here's hey, here's the reality. Hey look look, look, look, look, look it's really not that bad. Look at this, and look at this. And sometimes if you're discouraged, you're just like, would you just stop talking to me? Typically you have

13:27 to come to see the truth. You've got to try to you've got to talk yourself through it. You've got to be like, well, this is discouraging. But the reality is, sometimes the truth is discouraging, right. Sometimes the truth is, well, you know you're alone and you're isolated, and that situation is not going to get better and that's going to get worse and that so sometimes the truth is actually the source of discouragement. Right now, that's where it becomes complicated, right because see that a lot of times the concept is or you're discouraged because you're not seeing the reality. So then you have to go, well, the reality is discouraging. So then how do you find how do you get out of the discouragement. If the reality itself is discouraging, then you've got to try to find some way to get out of the discouragement and based off something other than the truth of the situation. That can be very difficult.

14:23 Sometimes the discouragement is resolved with progress that the situation just gets better, But again, what happens that the situation doesn't, So that's kind of discouragement. From a biblical perspective, we would refer to it as fainting, being cast down, losing heart, being weary. All right, don't lose heart, don't be weary, faint not that kind of idea. That's kind of a biblical way of understanding. So it's a biblical concept, right, it's we can experience this now. That leads to the next one. There's discouragement depression. A lot of times Christians don't like to talk about depression, but depression is defined typically a persistent and often chronic condition marked by deep sadness, hopelessness, emotional numbness, and a loss of interest or pleasure in life, often accompanied by physical, cognitive, and spiritual symptoms. Depression is a step, well, not just a step. Discouragement is in one city. Depression is in a whole other state. It's like a whole, it's a it's it's really now you've gone way beyond discouragement. It's not like, well, discouragement and

15:53 depression they're pretty close. I see depression as something much much, much greater and much more serious than now. Discouragement is already serious, Depression takes it to another level. So I don't want to minimize discouragement, because discouragement's got its own difficulties and its own issues. But depression is when it really takes a dark, dark turn. It's persistent. It's a chronic condition marked by deep sadness, hopelessness, emotional numbness, a loss of interest or pleasure in life. It's accompanied by physical, cognitive, and spiritual symptoms. Now, from a biblical insight, scripture reflects depression in the psalms of lament and the cries of prophets and apostles. It's not condemned as sin, but presented as a real human condition and a broken world. And you can see this. And when Job is crying out, I wish I was never born, right, you can see it in Job. You can see in Psalms. I believe.

17:03 I think the Psalm hang on, let me look here. I don't want to give the reference until I check it. Yeah, I think if you look at yeah, I look at Psalm eighty eight. I mean, I don't have time to go through all of this. We could we could take the Psalm apart. Maybe we'll do a teaching on Psalm eighty eight. Even the title in my Bible is a trouble filled soul. But Psalm eighty eight, Oh Lord, God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before THEE. Let my prayer come before THEE, and clind Thine ear unto my cry, for my soul is full of trouble, and my life draweth nigh unto the grave. I'm counted with them that go down into the pit. I am a man that hath no strength. I mean that if you look at some of the words in Psalm eighty eight, that's it's going beyond just weary or fate not it's going into I think, a pretty good description of depression to some level. So we see this in a number of places in Job, Psalm eighty eight and a number of other places really any psalm of lament, Remember a psalm of lament, it's like a spiritual scream. It's a spiritual cry. And a psalm of lament it's not like, oh, everything's gonna get better. Jesus is good, God is good, the life is better than I deserve. No, a salm of lament is a spiritual scream where you're like, it's

18:35 not good, it's bad, it's horrible. I don't know what to do. I don't care. I wish I was never born, I wish I was dead. And it's okay to say those things because you're feeling them anyway. It's okay to scream out that way, being raw. I know Christianity doesn't allow that, but the psalms do allow. That allows that. I'm not supposed to feel that way. That it's irregardless whether you should or shouldn't, it's like you do. So it needs to be stated, it needs to be acknowledged, it needs to be just screamed out. If I turn on this microphone and I just I guarantee you, if I turn on this microphone on a Christian podcast and just all I did for thirty minutes was give a a basically a spiritual lament, a lament, a psalm of lament, and I just let out my pain and my frustration and my depression or just let I just just let it.

19:42 I guarantee you by the end of that thirty minutes one I probably be you know, removed from some platforms, and most Christians would be like, that person is not even saved. Christians cannot handle lament. Everything's supposed to be wonderful and happy and happy, happy, happy, happy happy, even Christian music. For a long time, within some circles of contemporary Christian music, if you gave a full blown, true spiritual lament, you got in drouble. I've talked about the Christian metal band at one time, they basically released the song that was a spiritual lament. It was a palm of lament, it was actually the words of a psalm, and they got banned from some Christian radio stations because it was too negative, it was too depressing. It was supposed to be encouraging, encouraging everything. Nobody can be real or honest. When you go to church, everyone smiles and everything's like, everything's wonderful, everything's great. Sometimes life isn't wonderful.

20:36 Sometimes life isn't great. Sometimes it absolutely is horrific, and it's okay to scream that. Some of the key traits of depression, it's persistent. It's an emotional heaviness at last weeks or longer, and maybe it may be caused by a mix of spiritual, emotional, physical, and chemical factors. It can include fatigue, sleep, appetite changes, loss of purpose or meaning, withdrawal from others, and the thoughts of death are self harm, all right, And I know I know about experiencing this.

21:20 I know about experiencing this. Don't don't come to I mean, don't, don't tell me a Christian can't feel this. I know some people's theology says Christians can't feel this way. I get so sick and tired of that, because, I mean, job, I mean, you have examples in the Bible. But I know about it, because obviously you know I've talked about the story. I mean, everybody, most of you know, I spent eight weeks in a psychiatric hospital for trying to kill myself when I was a teenager. So and I was a Christian, I was a believer, but I had Yeah, I think depression would be the biggest understatement and the history of the world to where I was at that point in time. So, what are some of the things that causes depression and discouragement? What are some of the things that cause depression and discouragement. I'm going to try to go through these quickly. I'll try to put them in categories. Let's talk about emotional and psychological causes for discouragement and depression. Some of the things that can cause discouragement and depression. Now, one, it can be just unrealistic expectations.

22:29 You're expecting this. You think life is going to be this way, You think this has got what life is going to be like. Right, maybe you think life is going to be you know, you're you're married, and and you've got you've got a companion, you've got intimacy, you've got kids, you've got a dog, a white picket fence. Everything's wonderful, everything's great. And you wake up one day and you don't have any of that. Well, you've got an expectation. And when that expectation is not met, that can become to it. Now Now, in some cases, and now I got to be careful how I try to describe this, right, because I'm kind of describing unmet expectations, but I think you can have unrealistic ones too. So this is where it gets kind of hard to define. Right, So let me explain you get unmet expectations can cause discouragement and even lead into depression. Uh. But when we say unrealistic, some people will say, well, that expecting to have all the things I just described in my illustration.

23:35 You got you got a spouse, you've got intimacy, you've got a companion, You've got you've got emotional Uh, you know, you got someone that you connect with emotionally, all all the different things that we go into it. You got a family, you got a house, you got a white pick it fits, you got a dog, you got you got you got it all? Right, you got it all. That is what a lot of people say expect. Now the question is is that an unrealistic expectation or if you wake up one day you don't have it, it's just an unmet expectation. Well, I now this is going to sound very jaded and very almost like I sound just like totally depressed, But this is what I'm going to say. This is what I'm going to say. I think the reality is about life. And I know this is going to be hard to say, but I think it's true. Can we have any expectation? Should we have any expectations that anything is going to go well? Right?

24:36 I mean? Should we Should we have any expectation that I'm going to even live past tomorrow? Should I have any expectation that things are going to go well? Or should I just know? I live in a broken, fallen world and things don't go well? People get sick, people die. You can end up all alone, you can end up isolating, you can end up with nothing thing. You can spend your life out. You can. You can wake up one day and your parents beat you with a baseball bat and burn you with a curling iron. That's the way life can work. You're your child can die, your your your your job can go away. You can you can wake up one day and next thing you know, twenty four hours later, you're you're in the hospital because of some horrible medical crises or or you know, in my case, a seizure disorder, and it never goes away. So do we try to say, well, man, that expect you can't Hey, don't have unrealistic expectations. Now, I agree, you don't want to have unrealistic expectations. But i'd even I even think that realistic expectations are really unrealistic, because what can you really expect in life? Can you have any any expectation you have in life? It's just waiting to slap you in the face, going you were an idiot. You really thought life was going to work out that way, You really thought you were going to be happy, You really thought you were gonna have this. You're an idiot. So

26:06 I think I know I sound really depressed, but I think you we can't do we have. What is the only expectation we can have if we're going to be realistic, That I'm going to die, That's the only thing I could expect, right, I guess from a Christian perspective, I can expect that. Well, see even that, I can't truly expect that Christ is going to come back now, because he may not come back until way after I'm gone. So what is the only thing I can really know? I'm going to die? Unless Christ was to return. But I just know I'm going to die. That's the only thing I can really expect. I can't expect tomorrow will be good. I can't expect that tomorrow will be bad.

26:48 I can't expect that things will get better. I can't expect that things will get worse. I can't I don't have any I know, I can't expect that trials, troubles and difficulty, pain and suffering is a part of life. So like I guess, we have to, I guess emotional and psychological causes for Can we say this that the emotional and psychological causes for discouragement and depression is having any expectation? Isn't any expectation just just a it's just setting you up, right, Hey, Hey, have a little bit of expectation, have a little bit of hope, have some desire.

27:31 You're just you're just going to get You're just going to get crushed, right? Is that? I know, typically it's defined and I'm using clinical psychological definitions and list here, but typically they will say the one of the one of the causes of emotional one of the emotional psychological causes for discouragement and depression is unrealistic expectations. But I got to challenge that. I think any expectation can cause emotional and psychological discouragement and depression. So if we could just give up what you know the famous you know I quote the song a lot. Since I gave up hope, I feel a lot a lot better. Maybe, don't have any hope, don't have any expectation. I don't even can you.

28:16 I mean, it's kind of like the Book of James, right. Don't say tomorrow we're going to do this, or tomorrow we're gonna do this, because you don't know if tomorrow tomorrow is not even promised. If it's God's will, then but you don't know. You don't know if tomorrow's going to happen. You don't know any You can't expect anything. I can't even expect to wake up tomorrow. I could. I could die literally forty five minutes from now. I could have I could I could have five seizures in the next five forty five minutes and be dead. So why would I have any expectations about anything? Maybe if you have no expectations zero In some ways, that's the way you have to come approach broadcasting, ministry or anything.

29:03 You don't have I don't have any just turn on the microphone. No expectation that people will like it or hate it, or will support it. Don't have any expectations that people would actually support the podcast. Don't have any expectations that people would encourage you, no expectations. If so, maybe maybe what I'm learning here is, don't have any expectations that is that I would have to look. Please note, I'm just this is just me trying to figure this out. I told you I don't. You may be the one sitting in the chair I'm now the one laying on the couch saying, you know what I think, Doc. I think I'm going to call you Doc. Okay. I think I'm just not going to have any expectations, and I think that will work better for me. Now, I'm not saying that that's the correct psychological I think I think I can argue that philologically, though. Don't say tomorrow, I'm going to do this, or I'm going to do that, or I'm going to go here or I'm going to go there, because tomorrow is not promise. That's literally in the book of James right right, work, We're not getting very far. We're only thirty minutes into this, We're not getting very far. I have a long ways to go here.

30:16 So emotional and psychological causes unrealistic expectations kind I'm just going to say expectations. I'm going to change that. Another one that's typically listed is perfectionism, which can cause emotional and psychological can be an emotional psychological cause for discouragement and depression. Perfectionism, I know all about that from at least in broadcasting. Already, on this broadcast, I made a little mistake at the beginning. I don't even remember what it was. I don't remember what word I was. I misspoke. I immediately called myself out for it, and already my brain is thinking, Man, I'm thirty minutes into this. I was going to get this far. Now, how long do I go?

30:58 Do I go past that? Now? So and guess what? It's perfection I wanted. I want. I want to say every word correctly. I don't want to stumble over any word. I want it to be perfect. I wanted. I want to pronounce everything exactly right. I want to make sure am I am I talking. I don't want to talk too loud, but I don't want to talk too low. I don't want to be too too and I'm animated but I want to be very real, but I don't want to be monotowne like perfection, perfection perfection, well, perfectionism will bring about, absolutely will bring about discouragement and depression. You know why, because you will never be perfect. You'll never be perfect in life. You'll never be perfect spiritually, you'll never be perfect morally, you'll never be perfect philologically.

31:44 You'll never be the perfect wife, the perfect husband, the perfect child, the perfect employee, the perfect podcaster, the perfect I don't whatever job you have, perfectionism, you're gonna get discouraged. And so it kind of goes back to the expectation. If you expect to be perfect, well, I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, you're gonna be the discouraged se Yeah, I just misspoke. You're gonna be discouraged and depressed. A third reason for discouragement and depression from an emotional and psychological cause is believing things should be better or easier than they are. See there, you got that. See that's why I don't want to put unrealistic expectations. I think any expectation, whether it's real, realistic, or unrealistic. I think this the third one really kind of summarizes it. If you believe things should be better than they are right now in your life, you're gonna get discouraged and you're gonna get depressed.

32:36 If you believe that things should be easier than they are, you're gonna get discouraged and get depressed. Why do I believe things should be any better in my life? Why do I believe that? There's no promise that things should be better? All right, there's no guarantee of that. Even looking in the Bible, people's lives were filled with pain, suffering, difficulty, everything, everything you can imagine. So why would I think for a second that things should be better in my life? Now I can have full confidence that things will be perfect in eternity, But here you have no there's no reason to even think things should be better. You shouldn't believe things should be better or that should be easier.

33:19 You shouldn't believe that things should get are going to get better. You should not believe things are going to get easier. You have to kind of come with an acceptance that whatever happens happens. And I have no belief that it should be better, should be easier, and no expectation that it will get better or get easier. Look that all sounds good. I don't know how you get yourself to that point, but you almost have to bring yourself to that point. So in a sense, expectation of any kind, perfectionism or believing things should be better or easy year, all of that kind of fits all fits together, right, That all kind of fits together, right, and those that would be fit under emotional psychological causes for discouragement and depression.

34:11 How about chronic stress or anxiety. Chronic stress or anxiety when you have ongoing pressure, ongoing fear, ongoing and uncertainty, never feeling mentally at rest. If there's something causing constant stress, constant anxiety in your life, it's just constantly there, and it can be defined as ongoing pressure, something that leads to fear, uncertainty, you don't know what's going to happen. In some ways, it describes just life in general. Right. But what if you have constant stress, constant anxiety, then there's a great chance for discouragement and depression. That would be an emotional on psychological cause. You never feel mentally at rest. You never feel that way all right. Another emotional psychological reason would be unprocessed grief or loss. The unprocessed grief or loss death of a loved one, major life changes, divorce, empty nest, retirement, any major life change.

35:21 Someone you become basically a caregiver because someone becomes very sick and needs care. That can Uh, that's a major life change. So in a sense, there's a loss. How about Oh, here's a big one. Emotional psychological causes isolation and loneliness. You wake up one day and you feel like you're isolated and alone, man, discouragement and depression is following. You wake up one day, there's no you don't have any deep connection you, yourself and yourself. It's me, myself and I. Well, if you wake up find yourself in that situation, discouragement and depression is probably coming. You feel unseen nobody, You don't feel seen, you don't feel heard, or you feel completely misunderstood. People think they got you figured out, they think, and you're like, you don't get it at all, you don't even you don't even have a clue, or you don't even know what it's like.

36:21 Wait then then that that can be very frustrating. Past trauma can cause emotional psychological emotional psychological cause right abuse, betrayal, abandonment often resurfaces and moments of weakness or exhaustion. Sometimes your past trauma can come back and slap you in the face, especially if you're just if you're weak or you're you're exhausted or what you can it all comes back. Because what happens is if you're going through a if you're going through a current negative situation, right then the past comes back and says, look, look, life was trash back then, and life is trash now. Congratulations, your life is a continuing story of being garbage. Well, that's that's depressing and discouraging. Now again, if I didn't have any expectation that it should be any different. But then it's hard not to have an expectation that's going to be any different when you can look at other people's lives and go, well, that looks pretty good. If I had half of that, i'd be doing being I'd be pretty good. Well, the key is you can't do that. It doesn't matter what anybody else has, because you may never have anything, and you've got to kind of accept that. That's all.

37:36 That's that's a hard thing to go through, all right, So those are emotional psychological causes. Then I'm going to go through these quickly. I'm trying to talk about through these. But you can have physical and biological causes. Fatigue and burnout. Fatigue and burnout, sleep deprivation, overwork without restry, our caregiving, burnout. Ministry itself can lead to physical can can lead to discouragement and depression. It can lead to this physical and biological cause. Caregiving, if you're a caregiver for someone that can man that can absolutely bring you down. Poor physical health.

38:18 If you're in poor physical health, chronical chronic illness or pain. If you have a chronic illness, right, you know that, in other words, something that's going to constantly bother you, it's going to lead to can lead to discouragement and depression. Pain right if you If you know, if you've had a absolute horrific migraine since two thousand and three, Okay, you know, not talking specifically about me, but maybe a little bit ever since the military tried to kill me. Okay, but hormonal imbalances. Now we get into chemistry and we can get into that brain chemistry and balance. Clinical depression can be genetic or chemical, may require therapy or medication.

38:59 That's where debate always becomes down about medication. But we can get into that and then yeah, there's a lot of others. So those are physical and biological causes, all right, And then we can have circumstantial and uh and external causes financial pressure. If there's financial issues, man, that can get discouraging and depression, debt, instability, poverty, worry about the future, workplace or vocational disappointment, job loss, unfulfilled dreams, lack of purpose or recognition, broken relationships, betrayal by close friends, cultural or social or societal chaos. Yeah, there's been no cultural or societal chaos in the last few years, have there?

39:46 All right? So all of that can be circumstantial and external causes, all right, And then we can get into existential and identity based causes. A loss of meaning or purpose. Why am I here? What am I even doing? Life feels repair and directionless, fear of failure, of being forgotten? What if none of this even matters? What am I even doing? Why am I even trying? Who really even cares? It's all meaningless, meaningless, meaningless, meaningless, Just give up, all right? Okay, you can get the that's the existential idea, all right? Trying to figure out how you measure success? How do you figure your success? How do you do all of that? Now?

40:27 I went through those relative real somewhat slow, but also relatively quick. Just note that that's not an exhaustive list of all the major causes. I tried to break them into categories, just so that you know I was trying to break them into categories. I didn't do a perfect job, but basically, we usually break depression, discouragement, and depression into these causes emotional and psychological, physical and biological, spiritual and philological. We didn't get deeply into that, but spiritual and philological. I didn't go through a lot of those circumstantial and external causes, and then existential and identity based causes. All of those are all the causes from that. So where do you fit? You have any discouragement, you have any depression?

41:17 Do you? Now we're gonna look for some possible ways to approach this biblically, but let me just try to explain briefly why and I am not. Look, I could give you a list right now. I could pull out a list right here. I could pull out this list and go through everything that I can identify that could be that could fit into one of those categories. In my life that could be leading to discouragement and could be leading to depression. Right, I could go through an entire list, but I'm not going to do that, right because it's a it's a broadcast. It's not meant for you know, you to know every detail of my life. Could I could go through that, but let's just I'm gonna connect this to this podcast. I'm going to connect it to the podcast because people are like, well, on the podcast, I've noticed maybe you're a little discouraged. Well, let me let me try to kind of break this down, all right, I want you to consider podcasting or broadcasting in general. I just want you to consider podcasting in general.

42:18 All right, just just consider this, all right, most podcasts, right, This is according to industry data and general trends. Right, so I pulled from I tried to find all the latest data that I could. How long do most podcasts last their lifespan? Many podcasts don't last very long. Forty four percent of podcasts have fewer than three episodes. This is known what is called this pod fade, where a podcast or just are immediately gets frustrated and discouraged and they give up. Seventy five percent don't make it past seven episodes. Only around twenty percent make it to episode ten or beyond. Less than ten percent make it past episode fifty. So while some podcasts last for years, most don't make it even to double digits. Now, why do so many podcasts stop? Lack of time or motivation, low listener numbers, maybe poor planning, burnout? Oh wait wait are you ready? Does this sound familiar? Unrealistic expectations. They get discouraged, they get depressed because of they have unrealistic expectations. A successful podcast would be one can that publishes at least twenty to fifty episodes. Long running podcasts like The Daily

43:53 Joe Rogan, The Joe Rogan Experience, Hardcore History, or Radio Lab have hundreds even thousands of episode. Weekly shows that last two to three years often reached one hundred to one hundred and fifty episodes. So I said, okay ai, what about this podcast known as Theology Central? Because Theology Central is fast approaching four thousand episodes depending on how you count it. In fact, it's way over four thousand. If I was able to gather every all the different things and put them all under one umbrella, Theology Central. Because at some point we had things divided into the Victory Baptist podcast and those were the sermons and they were separated from that, and we brought everything together right well over four thousand. So this is what AI said.

44:45 AI said, four thousand. That's statistically extraordinary. So here's where you would fit in. I'm in the top one percent, or even better, I'm easily in the top one percent of all podcasts, not just an episode count, but in consistency and longevity. Most podcasts don't make it past ten. You've done four hundred times that. AI goes on to say the rarity of high episode counts. The average podcast makes it. Typically, the average podcast that makes it typically has five hundred to one hundred and fifty episodes. Podcast with one thousand plus episodes are rare. Four thousand episodes is elite territory shared by a tiny fraction of shows.

45:35 Usually daily podcasts are radio style programs that have been running for years, so typically the only kind that kind of make it that far. They're typically just radio shows that are then also transferred over to being a podcast. Another source, taking looking at the statistics for my podcast says approaching four thousand episodes is legendary territory. Especially for a solo thilological podcast, you are likely in the top zero point zero one percent of all podcasters in the world based off volume and consistency. Right, My output suggests daily or near daily posting, years of consistent content creating, and a dedicated audience or long term vision. Right. So, just to compare, here's where I kind of sit. The Daily by the New York Times has two thousand episodes, and that since twenty seventeen. I've been broadcasting The Theology Central podcast less time than that. The Theology Central podcast, and I have well almost four thousand. The Joe Rogan Experience has two thousand, four hundred episodes since two thousand and nine. I've been way shorter a time than that, and I have four thousand. That Dan Patrick Show has over six thousand episodes, but it's a radio show that

47:08 airs every single day. Okay. So, so so it says that you're that I'm not just producing theological content. I'm challenging much of what modern Christianity teaches. So this set so this is what AI warns me of. AI says, Okay, because AI can you know, review all of my content. It knows all of my episodes. So AI says, well, based on the way you do things, you're probably going to have few allies. You're probably gonna have few listeners who actually even understand your intent, and you're probably gonna have a lot of pushback and a lot of silence, no encouragement. So it says Ai says, the isolation isn't just personal. It's still illogical when you're trying to be textually and historically faithful while others are simplifying or destroying the message for relevance, comfort of popularity. It can feel like you're simply shouting in to the void and I'm like, well, thank you, Ai. So it's funny because AI's like, hey, based off how much you've done, these are some things you need to be concerned with. And the first thing was, Hey, you need to be concerned with that. You're gonna feel basically like you have no allies, nobody really understands what you're trying to do, and you're not gonna get either gonna get pushback or you're gonna be met with resounding silence.

48:35 I was kind of shocked how Ai knew that. I was like, how do you know that? But I think AI is just saying, based off your content, this is what's going to happen. And I'm like, well, okay, that's that's pretty accurate. Then it says, hey, your volume plus your depth it's going to equal full blown, complete, uncontrolled exhaustion. That's what AI says. Ai says releasing basically two episodes per day, each averaging basically an hour while trying to remain faithful to biblical exegesus. It's not just high creative output.

49:16 It's mental, spiritual, and emotional labor. You're constantly studying, you're constantly writing, you're constantly thinking, you're constantly recording, you're constantly uploading, You're constantly thinking about all of this. You're dealing with weighty topics like sin, judgment, suffering, spiritual error, theological failure. It's not fun content content. It's content that calls people to repentance, reflection, and often discomfort. Over time, the relentless demand without the emotional reward that many other content creators will receive, will drain you of your inner reserves. And I'm like, well, wow, hey, Ai, you got anything positive to say. But there's a little bit of truth to that, right.

50:03 It's not like I'm like, whoa, ladies and gentlemen. You know, I'm I'm making one thousand dollars a month because of this no very little monetary I mean no monetary reward because the money just goes to pay for the podcast. I don't bring in enough money to do much of anything else, right, So there's no monetary upside, And I'm not going to get all of the emotional rewards of people going great, You're doing wonderful, you're doing awesome. Okay, ever once in a while. But I'm saying, if you balance out the negative from the positive, the negative is like a thousand times more than the positive, maybe five thousand times more. AYI says also, be on the lookout for discouragement, And I'm like, wait what, I'm like, Hey, I's telling me I need to be careful for discouragement, all right, So, it says most common most podcasters get feedback in the form of comments, praise, fan interaction, listener emails, questions, and financial support. But when you're confronting mainstream Christianity, the crowd will often be quiet. You're going to hear from your critics more than your supporters. You're not going to get much financial support, and even those who may agree will probably stay silent simply out of apathy. So you're

51:36 going to begin to wonder. This is literally the words from Ai. You are going to begin to wonder, It says it in a dogmatic way. You are going to begin to wonder if anyone is listening, are you making a difference and doesn't even matter. Basically, you're going to have an existential crisis and you're going to start questioning your existence. And I'm like, well, thank you, Ai, thank you, I really come on a I give me some great words of encouragement here. And Ai says also, this your podcast could lead you to despair. I'm like, what it could lead me to despair? I'm like, okay, I was listening to what is the song peace of Mind by Iron Maiden yesterday? I mean that is a very very very suicidal song. Maybe you're right, maybe maybe the podcast has led me to now listening to Iron Maiden. I think it's peace of Mind. I said that Peace of Mind album, I don't hang on, I can look up.

52:41 Let me look up the song. Let me look up the song hang on Iron Maiden. Okay, here, Iron Maiden, Here we go. Hang on, let me look it up. It's the hang On. I want to go to the album. I want to go to the album, go to album. Yeah, the album is Peace of Mind. The Oh Still Life Till Life is the song. Yeah, that's a that song will lead you to depression. Okay, that's all. So yeah, I won't even get into my history with that song, but yeah I was. I was listening to it yesterday, so maybe AI knew I was listening to it. Ai is like, hey, you are in risk of complete despair. It says, when you deal with theology at the level you do with a keen awareness of human depravity, the church has compromised the weight of truth and error and the law, the laws demand versus the gospel's promises. It's a heavy weight. You see clearly what the church should be and what it isn't That clarity often leads to heartbreak, lament, and eventually emotional fatigue and despair. And I'm like, man, Ai, could you could you cut me some slack? Right? Well?

53:45 Then AI goes through this entire thing about uh that a discouragement and depression. That literally, Ai is like, your podcast is designed to lead you to discouragement and depression, and it goes through one, two, three, four five. Basically, this is where it says you're gonna end up. This is hilarious emotional fatigue, cynicism, and numbness, creative dullness, questioning your own ability, and a desire to retreat, shut down and quit and possibly disappear. And I'm like, I'm like, whoa, that's literally this is what ais is the conclusion that your podcast will lead you to emotional fatigue, cynicism, numbness, creative dullness. I find that as an insult. I think I'm still very creative. AI look at the Salem stuff.

54:51 Come on, now, come look what I did with Journey. Still don't stop believing. Come on, that was creative? What do you mean I'm gonna creative dullness? And then I'm like, well, you know that Galatian stuff was pretty much trash, so maybe okay, maybe that okay, all right, well that episode was trash, Yeah, okay, yeah, okay maybe so maybe so all right, but I still was offended by that. Then it said you're gonna start questioning your ability and questioning your impact. Okay, well that's been going on forever. You're gonna desire. This is the exact words from Ai. I'm quoting Ai. You're gonna desire to retreat, shut down, completely, quit, and disappear. I'm like, I don't even know. I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to say. So AI asked me, would you like a biblical This is hilarious. Ai said, would you like a biblical and philological explanation and how to heal with depression and discouragement that your podcast could bring you to? And I'm like, man, AI is my best friend. I love Ai.

56:11 Thank you Ai? And so Ai gave me one, two, three, four, five, six, gave me. Basically six points here. Do you want to hear them really quick? And maybe this will be good for all of us? All right, First, it says depression and discouragement are not signs of weak faith. Don't think because you have discouragement or depression that your faith is weak. And I've been screaming that forever. No, when you're honest about depression and discouragement, that's not a sign of weak faith. To me, that's a sign of strong faith because you're willing to admit it. Strong faith can admit failure, sin, and That's why I'm always willing to say. And I'm not saying this is because I have strong faith. I'm just saying I try to say. Look, I'm just a center with a microphone. I'm an absolute mess, a disaster, and I got all kinds of problems. I try to do that. Not because I have a strong faith, but I believe because my faith is strong, I do believe.

57:13 That's why I can be honest that way I think I can. The AI gives me all kinds of biblical examples. Elijah in One Kings nineteen four, it's enough now, Oh Lord, take away my life. Okay, that sounds pretty depressed. Elijah may have been listening to the Iron Maiden. That's a joke. I know. He wasn't a right job, wanted to die. He cursed the day he was born. David in Psalm forty two, why are you cast down? Oh my soul. Jeremiah in Chapter twenty wish he had never been born. And Paul says, we are so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself. Hey, I says, these are not faithless people. They are prophets, they are apostles, Their emotional suffering did not mean they had no faith.

58:02 It meant that they were human living in a broken world. Right, AI then says, here's the theological framework to live in this tension, creation, Fall, redemption, and restoration. AI says, that's the theological framework you need. Creation, Fall, redemption, and restoration. Creation. We were made whole in communion with God without any depression. The fall happens, This brings sin, breaks everything. It breaks our minds, it breaks our bodies, it breaks our emotions.

58:43 So because we are broken well then, and we live in a broken world, then discouragement and depression is going to happen. Christ redeems us. But we still live in a groaning world with suffering. Even though Christ redeemed me, I still live my body still broken. I still have a sinful nature, and I'm in a world where things are not going to go right, and I don't have any expectations that they are going to go right. But then I can look to restoration, where full healing comes only at the resurrection. It doesn't come now. There will be a time there will be no more pain, no more suffering, no more death. So we should never be surprised when a believer suffers even with depression. We are redeemed, but we are not yet restored, or we're not yet glorified.

59:33 All right, So then AI says, Okay, here's what depression and discouragement is. It's a real emotional mental suffering that may or may not have spiritual causes. A consequence. It's a consequence of living in a fallen world, not necessarily a consequence of any personal sin. It's often a form of spiritual affliction mixed with physical, mental, and emotional components. Sometimes a righteous sorrow in response to truth, sin, evil, or the weight of ministry. Sometimes it's a righteous sorrow. Sometimes that discouragement and that depression is actually a righteous sorrow and response to truth and response to sin, evil, to the reality of the world in which you live.

1:00:17 It's not a mark of weak faith. It's not a moral failure. It's not a lack of gratitude, and it is not automatically cured by pray more, think more positively, read your bible, more, go to church, join a small group. So how do we deal with it? Well, we name it honestly before God. I don't need to pretend. I need to be honest like I'm in darkness like David and still be a man after God's heart Psalm eighty eight and Psalm thirteen. Say I'm in darkness, Say I'm in pain, Say I'm discouraged, Say I'm depressed, Say I'm friend straight, and say I'm irritated. Say you don't like your situation in life. Acknowledge that your situation is garbage.

1:01:07 It's okay to say that we've got to be honest. Pretending doesn't get us anywhere. I think we have to embrace the theology of lament. Lament is faith in the dark. It cries out to God even when it feels even when God feels far away. Let's state it that way. Lament is faith in the dark. It's not the lack of faith. It's faith in the dark, and it cries out to God even when you don't know where God is, even if you think God may have just moved away. A biblical lament seems to include four movements. You turn to God, then you are completely honest with God. You ask boldly, and you trust even when answers don't come.

1:01:50 That's typically the way a lament works. Anchor yourself and the promises of Christ, yourself and the promises of Christ. Now make sure their promises that are for you, not for Israel, not for Abraham, for you, And in most cases those promises for us are not that things are going to get better now, that God's going to fix it. Now, it's that the time will come that I am. I'm a child of God. I've been declared to be righteous. Nothing can separate me from the love of God. I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. There I will be glorified. There will become a time there will be no more pain, suffering, and death. I can anchor myself to that, not not that any that no one. I can't anchor myself that anyone's going to make it better for me. That not no, That's what I have to anchor myself to. So Number one, name it honestly before God. Number two, embrace the theology of lament. Number three, anchor myself to the promises of Christ.

1:02:52 Number four reject false theologies of victory. Don't buy the lie that real faith always feels tried jumphant, that real faith makes everything better. The cross precedes the crown, groaning precedes glory, Suffering comes before glorification. That's just the way it is. And I think, lastly, I've got six six down, but I'm just gonna I'm gonna for now, I'm gonna skip five. But rest in the Gospel daily, Rest in the fact that in Christ, I am redeemed. In Christ, I am forgiven. In Christ, I'm declared to be perfect, whole, righteous, obedient.

1:03:40 I gotta rest it not. Don't look to the law, don't look to do this. Do this, dude, now, look to It's all done for me. So how can we all help each other? How can I help you and your discouragement and your depression that we all can be honest without shame. We should not feel shame to say. You know what, I don't even want to be alive. You know what I wish I was dead. You know what I wish I was never born. You know what I hate my life? You know what I wish I wish.

1:04:25 It's okay to be honest without shame. I know the church may say shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. Ignore the church, okay, because most of the time white it says, is ridiculous. All right, how lament with faith? Just remember lamenting is faith in the dark it's okay to lament with your faith. You don't throw away your faith in the lament, you bring your faith with you. We all have to rest in christ Finished work. I don't rest in my emotional state. I don't rest in my circumstances. I don't rest in the hope that my circumstances will get better. The only thing I can rest in is what Christ has done.

1:05:11 He paid for my sins, he removed them. As far as the east is from the west, his righteousness is imputed to me. I stand in Him, perfect, whole, complete, forgiven, guaranteed eternity. That's all I can rest in. I can't rest in any There's literally nothing else. I can't rest in how I'm doing physically, I can't rest in how I'm doing mentally. I can't rest in anything. I can't rest in and there's nothing I can rest in. I think we embrace weakness. We don't deny it, we embrace it. I think we wait and hope, and that waiting and the ultimate hope, the blessed hope, eternity. And I think it's perfectly okay. Use whatever means we can find right. Yes, we use scripture, We even use counseling, we even use medication when needed. So in conclusion, I know I've gone over an hour. Now I'm met at myself. There's my perfectionism.

1:06:22 I wanted to do it less than an hour. Slap myself in the face. What was I thinking? I went too long? See when I was going through the causes of depression and I got to that, you know, unrealistic expectation, and I spent fifteen minutes, twenty minutes taking that apart. That's see, I didn't plan this right, I didn't organize this right. I'm foolish. I'm so then what am I gonna? Am I gonna get now discouraged? See? See what I can do? What did I should? I? I have had expectation that I was going to do it perfectly, all right, see I I yeah, but here's the here's the reality. Yeah. Do I get depressed and discouraged sometimes feeling like every single time I turn on the microphone. I know that I am putting myself at odds with almost ninety nine percent of Christianity, and that most people aren't going to like it. Most people are going to disagree. I'm going to get those emails saying I'm never gonna listen to you again because you're an idiot and I disagree with everything you have to say. Yeah, I'm going to get some of those. Yeah, am I gonna have people? If I'm gonna see my numbers may go up and then the numbers may plummet. Yeah, sometimes that happens. But why do I have Why do I even have expectations that that's going to happen. I shouldn't have any expectations. Should I expect that a podcast that's designed for basically a Christian audience that's going to go against most Christians to even have any hope of financial support? Give me a break.

1:07:47 I'm an idiot to think that, right, Come on, you're literally going against the very audience that your podcast is designed to reach. Right, I'm like, hey, all of you, I do a theology podcast. None of you are going to agree with it. Hey do you think you want to support what I do? That's a that's an unrealistic expectation. It's a stupid expectation. So do I. I don't look. I can't look to numbers, I can't look to emails. I definitely can't look to financial support. What I can do is, say, man, four thousand episodes, I'm in the top zero point zero one percent of all podcasts in the world based on just the sheer volume of content I have produced. And if you take that's basically almost four thousand hours of content four thousand hours? How long would it take someone to listen to four thousand hours of my content? I put out more content than churches with an entire ministerial staff. I put out more content than than multiple churches that have multiple they have multiple people on their staff, they have pastors and associate pastors and Sunday school teachers. I put out more than, in many cases, multiple churches in this podcast coming from an

1:09:19 empty room in the middle of nowhere, Texas. So I can say, Hey, that's that's pretty good. Oh is all the content good? Come on? Obviously not it? Some of its trash? Have you heard recent broadcast? Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not? Am I a sinner? Oh? You have no idea? Am I a failure? Oh? Yeah? Have I failed absolutely to have my ideas of how things should go work? No? Completely failed? Do I have difficult circumstances to work through? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we know that. You know the church for all practical per which is what for the building to sell, and then it's over. Right, then it's over. My crazy idea of how to do things failed. I failed, I made mistakes.

1:10:09 I was a failure. Yeah. Is that discouraging? Yeah? Yeah, that's Is that going to lead to all kinds of financial questions? Yeah? Absolutely. I don't know how all that's going to ultimately play out. Could play out, great, it could play out. It could play out perfectly if it goes the way we had planned. But see see do I have unrealistic expectations? Yeah? Do I get frustrated listening to you know, every time I listened to a sermon on Isaiah forty through fifty five, I'm like, what in the world can nobody handle this correctly? But you know what, maybe I shouldn't see it as discouragement. You know what I should see it, Well, that's great, I'm going to have a unique take that nobody else does. That at least should give me some reason why I broadcast, Right, I broadcast because nobody else is going to cover Isaiah forty through fifty five the way I did yesterday Galatians five sixteen. Yeah, did I present all of that now, it was a mess. The way I put that all together, it was trash. What I tried to do with Galatians two twenty. What I was trying to do still put me.

1:11:14 It was still unique. Nobody's going to hear that approach. So instead of getting discouraged or frustrated when I hear the other approaches, maybe I'm like, well, that's good because now I have a reason to exist. Right now, it's going to put me at odds with everyone else, but have a reason to exist. Now Does that fix all of my problems in my life? Absolutely? Not not life like, there's always a life. But behind anyone you listen to, whether you're looking at a person standing behind a pulpit or listening to someone on a podcast, there's a life going on behind that microphone that you have no clue about, no understanding about. So there's always going to be issues.

1:12:00 I don't know what's going to happen in the next five minutes. I don't know what's going to happen in the next twenty minutes. I don't know what's gonna happen in the next forty five minutes. I do know one point, I'll die. That's all I do know. Now? Did that help anybody? I don't know. Did it help myself? Oh? I feel a little bit better. And I think the main thing I need is stop having any expectations. Maybe that's the big thing I needed to hear. All Right, that concludes the counseling session. I will be charging you seventy five dollars. It went over an hour. I think I should be I think you just get charged two hundred dollars, one hundred dollars an hour. I think you just get charged two hundred. You say you didn't go two full hours, Yeah, but we went into the second hour.

1:12:44 I think you just I think you should pay me two hundred dollars. I know where you're saying, no, no, no, no, no, you owe me two hundred dollars. I was the one sitting in the chair. You were on the couch, ranting and raving like a mad lunatic. I've already called them to take you to the psychological hospital, to the psych unit because you need to be admitted. Okay, well that's harsh, and it was kind of harsh that AI is like, basically, you're going to end up in a pit of despair and you're going to want to die. I'm like, well, thank you, AI. I don't think it's that bad, but there you have it. I've now discussed it. I've now talked about it. I now express some of my frustration and irritation and explain why the podcast itself really is kind of designed to bring me to that point at times.

1:13:28 It's done. Now hopefully we can move on. So thank you for those who emailed. Oh, I think there was two emails. I think there was two. I think there was two, so thank you very much. I think there was two. I can't remember, so thank you so very much, and I appreciate it. And to those who normally give, thank you so very much. Right because it is the beginning of April, so the normal people who give have I think already given, so thank you so very much. I don't ever, I don't want anyone to think I don't see that or appreciate that. I don't email. Ever. When I get the PayPal notification that money's been put into the church account, I don't sit there and go, oh, email this person. Even maybe I should, but I don't have it set up like an automated well, I'm not going to do an automated email, because then that's not real.

1:14:15 So but yeah, thank you very much for that. I greatly appreciate it. And there we go. Have a great day. I don't know if I will, but I'm one step closer. Maybe. No, I'm never going to have a great day. Am I ever going to have a great day? You know what, don't have any expectation. I'm just going to have a day. And I can't even really expect to have a day because I may be dead before the day is over right, no expectation, no expectation, no expectation. Thanks for listening. God bless