Cotton Mather: Arguing His Innocence

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon, everyone. It is Friday, March the seventh, twenty twenty five. It is currently two seven pm Central Time, and I am coming to you from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And I'm going to warn you right now. I'm just gonna go ahead and warn you right now. Most likely a large majority of the people who are going to listen to this broadcast, whether live or whether later on some podcasting app the majority of you are probably strongly going to disagree with me.

0:47 You're going to think that I am wrong. You're going to think I'm on the wrong side of history. You're going to accuse me. May you may even say I'm in league with the devil. You may say that you know, I'm on the side of Satanist and I'm on the side of the demonic, and I'm on the side of witches, and I'm evil. You may go so far to make some of those claims, and you have every right to make those claims. I think you're completely wrong, but you have the right to make those claims. But from this studio. If you've ever learned anything about the theology Central podcast is I tend to find myself in the minority of the minority of the minority, and I tend to find myself at odds with a large portion of Christianity. I just think, time and time again, the way scriptures are handled.

1:33 So many logical fallacies, the logical errors, hermeneutical errors, factual errors. I mean, so many issues. So I tend to find myself in the minority. Do I want to be in the minority? Well, now this is where I have to be honest with myself. I've got to be honest here, right, because my natural instinct is to always like if there is a crowd and the crowd says we're going right, I'm going left, just out of I can't follow the I tend to do that, and I don't. I know that's not always a good thing, right, because sometimes you're just going against the majority to go against the majority, and that's nothing. You're not really being rebellious, and you're not really being an anti conformist. You're just now you're just being childish. So there's a like, I don't ever want to be just go with the crowd because the crowd says go that way. But I don't want to just go against the crowd just because I'm going against the crowd. I want to maintain that anti conformist kind of stand on my own two feet mentality, but in a right way. And you know, I've struggled with you know that sometimes. But I believe in this case that it's not me just going against the majority. I think in this case, I'm standing for history and I'm standing for what is right, and we're going to dig into this and hopefully it's going to be beneficial. Now we have been talking about the Salem witch trials. Many of you know that I have this like weird connection to the city of Salem. I can't don't really explain it.

3:01 From the first time I drove into that city, I was just like, this is the most amazing place I've ever been in my life. And everything that happened in Salem during the Salem witch Trials. I have studied and studied and studied and read about. I have visited Salem multiple times. I'll be visiting it, visiting it multiple more times hopefully in my life. I love the place. I'll be there this year. This year, I'll be taking another trip to Salem. I love everything about the place and the history. It bothers me. I don't love the history of Salem because I think, ooh, this is cool. I am intrigued by it because it bothers me so much.

3:42 I get emotional about it because it just screams at everything that can be wrong with the institutional Church, with Christianity at large, with the craziness that sometimes you find within Christians. Sometimes when you talk to Christians, I'm like, you're about five seconds away from another Salem witch trial? Are what is going on with you? And whenever you try to explain that, people just look at you like whatever whatever. But that's why I think the lessons of Salem are so important. And when you talk about Salem, you talk about the Salem witch trials. Obviously you're gonna be talking about the Puritans. Now if you know that there are many Christians who are very vocal with their support of the Puritans, and the Puritans were misunderstood and the Puritans are attacked and it was wrong the way people treat the Puritans. And it's like, okay, I understand you may want to correct some mis understanding are wrong attitudes towards the Puritans. But at the same time, you cannot try to stand against how what you perceive to be wrong attitudes towards the Puritans by you defending and justifying that which I think is indefensible and is just wrong. Look, you can whenever you look back in church history. I don't care the group, I don't care who the group is, I don't care who the church father is. You know what, you're going to find that they were sinful people. You know what, They're going to find, things that they did wrong, things that they believe that were horrible, justification justifying things

5:12 that were horrible. We should not be shocked, we should not be surprised by that, because they're just like us. You look at the church today, filled with sinners. We do sinful things. The problem with Christianity we can never just admit how sinful we all are. We always have to have this pretend that we are all or new creatures in Christ, all things have passed away, all things have become new again. Not applying that to our positional reality, but a try applying it to our practical reality, which that is not our practical reality. So Christians love to defend the Puritans. Well, whenever you talk about Salem, you're going to talk about the Puritans. And whenever you talk about Salem, you have to talk about one specific Puritan, and that is Cotton Mather. You have to talk about Cotton Mather. You have to. You can't just overlook his involvement.

5:58 But for many Christians, if I say Mather and his his influence, well again I'll just say, Cotton Mather is the architecture, the architect of fear. Cotton Mather wrote the blueprint. Cotton Mather wrote the script for the sale for Salem, and they followed it to the very letter, down to the punctuation marks. Now others will say, how dare you He wasn't the architect of fear. He didn't write the blueprint, he didn't write the script. Cotton Mather had nothing to do with Salem. And whenever people say that, I just get furious because it's just not accurate. I believe that we have and all of the studies that we are not studies. I have handled this series on Salem a little differently. I've done things more in a like, in a narrative style. There's good with that. I think I think it's been good. I think I whenever you're going to do something in a narrative style, I think you have to be you've got to be very prepared to do it. I mean, I'm trying to do a narrative style live right. A lot of times when PE put together a podcast, like in a narrative kind of style, you're doing a lot of editing, first take, second take, third take, doing things in segments, putting all the segments together, you know, having some music. And I don't do all of that type of production here for this podcast one it would cost a lot of money. And then yeah, so I don't do all of that, but I still tried to do it in a narrative style where there were I think, I think in some ways it was good that I did that. Some ways I could look at maybe the ways I could improve when I do that.

7:30 But doing it as in a narrative style, okay, great. I think I think it's been good. But I think in that narrative style, I think we have been able to clearly prove, to clearly demonstrate. I don't even think it's a I don't even want to say it's a hypotheses I think it's I think I was able to prove with historical fact, Cotton Mather was the architect. Cotton Mather wrote the blueprint, he wrote the script. You cannot compare what was going on in Boston and the words of Cotton Mather to what was going on in Salem, and I go, there's a connection. And what's the connection? I don't know. Maybe because the book that Cotton Mather wrote happened to be in the very library of the pastor who it was his daughter and his niece who made the first accusations in Salem, and it was almost like they were reading from the book. I mean, come on now, I mean that's just a historical fact, that's not speculation. So I think we have demonstrated that. But even though we have demonstrated that, I cannot, in good conscience, if I'm going to be fair, try to pretend that, well, my view is the only view. Know, the majority of Christianity disagrees with me. They will say Cotton Mather was innocent.

8:45 That Cotton Mather is you know, basically, he's been framed, he's been maligned. It's people have bore false witness against Cotton Mather, and that it is wrong. So we are going to listen to and I don't know how many episodes we're going to do this to Christians defend Cotton Mather, and then you, as the listener, you can decide. You obviously know which side I fall on. I don't believe he was a hero of the faith. I believe he's the villain and a horrible story. And if you didn't hear the last broadcast what he did at the execution of Reverend Burrows, I don't know. I don't even know how you can listen to that story and go, well, Cotton Mather was such a good guy. Now I'm sorry.

9:30 Now he may have been good from when we speak of goodness in a very subjective way, from a human perspective, you may well, he did this good, and he did this good. I'm just saying in that very moment when it comes to the Salem witch trials and his attitude after nothing good about it, and of course not in the side of God, none of us are good. We are all still sinners. So we are going to explore how Christians defend Cotton Mather, and we're going to listen to it. Now I'm going to be taking in this episode, where's just gonna borrow from one one sermon taken from the sermon audio platform. What I did is which sermon audio typed in Cotton Mather and immediately started to seeing all these defenses of him, and I was like, this is insane. Who like, just go visit Salem. I don't know how you can visit Salem and drive out of there going, Hey, that Cotton Mather guy, he's really he was great. All these other Puritans were messed up. But I think a lot of Christians pull into Salem and pull out and they're like, I think the Puritans were the good guys. I think the Puritans were great. I think we need to kill some more witches. Okay, maybe maybe that's a little bit of hyperbole, but I don't know how. You I don't know how. I don't I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get it.

10:43 But you know what, I've got to listen to their defense. I gotta listen to their defense. And because I could be wrong, so obviously I'm appearing to be very dogmatic because I feel very dogmatic. I believe I have proven it without a shadow of the doubt that Cotton Mather is not the hero in this story. I believe I've made it clear, and I believe you can't separate him like he had nothing to do with it. I think that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life. I think he's the he's the architect, he's the blueprint creator, he's the script writer. So but you can't. If all you do is read and listen to that which agrees with you, then you can never be corrected, and you can never be challenged, and you can never grow. So what I did is I grabbed the first one and said, here we go. Now, I don't know in which direction all of these are going. Well, this one, we're just gonna go. Whenever we review one of these, remember I don't listen to it first. I don't listen to it first.

11:43 I like to go into it blind. Now, to be fair, I will say this, I have taken the transcript from many of the ones that we possibly will listen to. I have given it to artificial intelligence. And in every single case, artificial and intelligence is like, this is filled with lies, fraudulent information. This is just wrong. And so I feel then a little bit more comfortable that I do have the facts on my side. Now I already know most of the facts, but all of my visits to Salem, but and all of my reading and studying of the events. But Cotton Mather is still viewed by many to be the hero. So we're getting ready to find out. We're going to jump in. This is only thirty two minutes long the episode we're going to be reviewing.

12:32 Now thirty two minutes could turn into a whole long time of review time. I am pulling up just so that everyone knows, because I want to be fair here, I am pulling up. Hang on, let me go here, Hey can here we go? Here we go, Here we go. I think this is the first one I've got. I got a lot of notes here, all right, I'm going to I am going to be utilizing notes from artificial intelligence that help me verify or check or double check or critique some things. I've got a bunch of notes.

13:13 I'm gonna I tried to put this together in different ways. I got things, I added things, AI added things. I challenged it on things that put together. So we kind of went back and forth, and then ultimately basically what AI told me is, look, I've identified several historical, factual and logical errors. So I was like, Okay, good, well, I don't want to know them. I'm going to listen and we're going to find out together. So are you ready. I've got the notes. I've not read these notes. I've not done other than the original back and forth than when I got the final product. I'm just having them ready to go in case I need to access them.

13:55 For the most part, I'm going to rely on the things we've already discussed in the previous episode and all of my knowledge of the Salem witch Trials, and at times I will tell you when I'm quoting from artificial intelligence. So it's going to be a mix of artificial intelligence, my own study, my own research, my own memory, things maybe I've heard learned in my visit to Salem, those types of things. So it's going to be a combination of a number of factors. But we're going to listen to this. I have not heard this, you know what I realized. I didn't check to see if it was loud enough. I hope it's loud enough. I always check the audio levels. I so hope that it's loud enough. We're going to find out together, here we.

14:35 Go I Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. We believe theological education should be confessional because of our desire to identify with what Christ has done in its church throughout the centuries. We fully adhere to the sixteen eighty nine Baptist Confession of Faith. The standard keeps us accountable and preserves us from novelty. For more information on how you can receive informs barship with pastoral heart, check out our website Cbtseminary dot org. Oh no, oh, no, I didn't know this came It is coming from a seminary? Is this coming from that? Was definitely loud enough. That was a lot much louder than I thought. I don't know how the presentation is going to be, Ladies and gentlemen, if this is coming from a seminary, and if I find this thing filled with logical, factual and historical error. Look, I hate the seminary system as I loathe the seminary system. Right, someone has to pack up, move go to a seminary, spend all of this money to get a biblical education. You were literally just sitting in your church. That pastor should be the one training you for ministry, and you should be getting real life experience because you're actually a part of the church. You should be doing this and doing that.

15:55 And the pastor can bring you into the office and you can work together and preparing the sermon on Sunday. He can give you opportunities to teach. He can see your family's right there. You should be learning and educated and trained in your local church. But no, we have this seminary industrial complex where people spend all of this money to get a Bible education, and then when they get to the church and they stand behind the pulpit, well, then all of that seminary education we don't really want that. We want very practical sermons and we don't want to get too in depth. And well, then what's the point of going to seminary. And then if you go to a seminary and if this is a case that this is a presentation from a seminary that's about to completely slaughter one of the most you know, infamous events and American religious history, well then I'm going to be very very bothered. I am hoping this is going to be the best presentation we have ever heard in history on the Salem witch Trials, But I'm having a feeling that we don't. I did not know that this had any connection to a seminary. That just caught me way off guard.

16:57 When I heard their little promo there, I was like, wait, wait, all right, so let's see what's going to happen here. So this message then is being utilized I guess in a way as a promotion for the seminary. That's what it feels like. You give the commercial for the seminary and now you're going to go into this. Is this supposed to be somewhat I don't know. Here we go. This is a Man of God podcast, a broadcast that is brought to you by coming at back to a theological seminary in Owensboro, Kentucky. Today. I want to discuss for about half an hour the history of the Salem witch Trials of sixteen ninety two, as they are a reflection upon Cotton Mather and to your surprise if you don't know this history, to vindicate Cotton Mather that he wasn't actually involved in the Salem witch trials.

17:58 Oh boy, okay, so this is this is a podcast of the seminary, and you see we're gonna vindicate Cotton Mather. They're gonna vindicate Cotton Mather. Okay, all right, I gotta take a deep breath. All right, ladies and gentlemen. Okay, you know my perspective. I am obviously biased. So what I'm going to do is I'm gonna take my bias. We're gonna call bias Fluffy right here, I have Fluffy in my arms. Here's my bias. I think Cotton Mather is the villain. Okay, not to be vindicated. I think you should be found guilty of so much of what happened in Salem. All right, But okay, I'm gonna take Fluffy.

18:41 I'm gonna take Fluffy out back. Sorry, Fluffy, you gotta go. I'm gonna put Fluffy down, all right. No real animals are being harmed in this segment. I'm gonna put Fluffy down, and I'm gonna just you know, I'm gonna leave my presuppositions. I'm gonna try to leave my bias. I'm gonna try to leave my perspective out here, out back, Fluffy, Fluffy's dead. I'm gonna walk back in. I'm gonna sit down. I'm gonna imagine I'm at this seminary I'm in a classroom and he's going to talk about vindicating Cotton Mather because Cotton Mather has been mistreated or maligned, or are treated incorrectly or or viewed incorrectly. I don't know exactly how he's going to frame it, but he's going to vindicate him, all right. So I'm going to go in and try to be somewhat neutral, but I'm gonna be neutral, but from this perspective, I'm going to try to be neutral and be willing to be persuaded that Cotton Mather was innocent.

19:41 But I'm going to also listen with very critical ears based on all of my years of study and reading about the Salem Witch Trials, and I can't ignore what we've just spent multiple hours doing on this podcast itself about the Salem Witch Trials, where I clearly implicate Cotton Mather. Right, So are we? Are you ready? Here we go? When I was teaching American church history and a little church plant that we had started up the night before, and I'd been studying for a week to do the Salem Wish Trials as part of the early American history up until twenty four hours before, I was sure that Cotton Mather was involved in the Salem Wish trials because everything written from eighteen thirty one on implicated him in these trials. But the last day that I had time to study this out further, including Sunday morning because we had a later service in most churches, I discovered two books a really vindicated Cotton Mather from being involved at all in the Salem witch trials. And those two sources are William Pull and Enoch Pond. My purpose of doing this is to show if you're interested in teaching church history, and I would say especially American church history, try to go back as close as you can now that we have the opportunity to do this through books dot Google dot com and finding sources archive dot org and other places, and do first hand research and find out to see if there's been any revisionist history between then and now.

21:14 With that, we'll start today's podcast to follow. An article was in the North American Review for April of eighteen sixty nine, written by William Frederick Poll, who actually lived in Salem, Massachusetts. Cotton Mather and the Salem Witchcraft Trials. This is a vindication of Cotton Mather and to show that Cotton Mather was not involved in the Salem witch trials, and that to state that he was is a revisionist history. Nearly two centuries had passed away since the Satus tragedy of early New England history was enacted at Salem and Salem Village. Instead of fading out from the memory of men, the incidents of Salem witchcraft are receive more attention today than at any former period. The fact of his being the last great exhibition of a superstition which had cursed humanity for thousands of years, and that every incident connected with it has been preserved in the form of record, deposition, or narrative imparts to it a peculiar interest and one which will be permanent. It is not as a record of whoores, but as a field of psychological study, that the subject will retain its hold on the minds of men.

22:26 More victims than suffered at Salem were hurried to the gallows by witchcraft year after year in a single county of England during the seventeenth century, but the details of English trials in so common were generally not thought worth preserving. Probably as much authentic and reliable information respecting the Salem proceedings as extant as of the trials of the thirty thousand victims who suffered from the same cause in England. How did the Salem delusion originate? Who was responsible for it? Was it wholly the result of fraud and deception? Or where there psychological phenomena attending it which have never been explained? Is there any resemblance between the proceedings of the afflicted children of Salem Village and modern spiritual manifestations? Where the clergy of New England or any other profession or class in the community especially implicated in it? And in one of these questions affords a theme for discussion. We propose, however, to review the incidents of the Fearful tragedy for the purpose of re examining the historical evidence on which, in a popular estimation, so larger portion of the culpability for those executions has been laid upon one individual. In eighteen thirty one, Charles Wentworth Upham printed as Lectures on Salem Witchcraft, and which he brought some very grave charges against Cotton Mather as being the contriver, instigator and promoter of the delusion,

23:57 and a chief conspirator against the lives of the sufferer. These charges have been repeated by mister Quincy in his History of Harvard University, by mister Peabody in his Life of Cotton Mather, by mister Baincroft, and by nearly all historical writers since that date. Mister Uppham, after an interval of thirty six years, has reiterated and emphasized his original accusations and his elaborate History a Salem Witchcraft, printed in eighteen sixty seven. They have obtained a lodgeman and all the minor in school histories, and the present generation of youth is taught that nineteen innocent persons were hanged and one was pressed to death to gratify the vanity, ambition and stolid credulity of Cotton Mather. If one imagines that we are staying in the case too strongly, let him try an experiment on the first bright boy he meets, by asking who got up Salem Witchcraft? And with a promptness that will startle him, he will receive the reply.

25:01 Let him try another boy with a question who was Cotton Mather? And the answer will come. The man who is on horseback and hung witches. An examination of the historical textbooks use in our schools will show where these ideas originated. We have the latest editions of a dozen such manuals before us. So their argument going in is that basically that Cotton Mather has been framed, he gets all the blame, and that this is revisionist history. If you blame Cotton Mather, it's revisionist history. All right, well, we're going to see what argument they're going to provide to us, what evidence they're going to provide to clear Cotton Mather. All right, let's let's see where the argument goes. Now he's just reading this, like you know, so it's going to be very difficult. I'm going to let this go a little ways, and what I may have to do, I'm may have to utilize artificial intelligence, like you know, breakdown of this, because this is going to be very difficult for me to like break in because he's just like duh d there's no natural pause or no natural trends. He's just reading from an article, just like verbatim, just reading the article.

26:17 He's not reading it. Maybe he's going to break in and discuss it a little bit, but if he's just going to read it, it's going to be very hard to do a review without it getting too broken up. So I'm going to give you give him the opportunity to get the basic thesis out, and then I'm going to utilize artificial intelligence. I've given artificial intelligence the entire transcript, so artificial intelligence has every word that's spoken in this podcast, and I'm gonna then we can just go through what artificial intelligence says. This is not exactly the way I wanted it to go. Hey, this is what happens when you go in blind. I saw this was a podcast. I'm like, oh, podcast, they're going to be They're gonna be talking about it. It looks like it's just a podcast episode where he just reads an article about from someone claiming all of these things about Cotton Mather, I guess are not accurate. So let's just see how they develop it, and then we'll try to respond in part I will try our best to.

27:14 Do that, but the following examples must suffice quote. Cotton Mather, an eccentric but influential minister, took up the mantor, and great excitement spread through the colony. Please note he just acknowledged in the article that he's written a Cotton Mather was an influential. He was influential. Let me make that very clear. Influential. So let me ask you something. Can someone who's influential influence the place that he has not been or is not there. Someone's influence goes where they don't go, right, That's how influence spreads.

27:54 That's what it means to be influential. Right. If you're only influential where, well, when I meet this person, I influenced them. That's true. Let to be your If your influence is widespread, that means you're influencing areas where you're not currently yet. Let's just keep that in mind, because I have a feeling there are argument's going to be, well, he wasn't a judge. Well, he wasn't there for this, He wasn't there for that. We've already acknowledged where he was and wasn't what we're saying, his influence was there, right, Okay, so let's let's just but this. The article Irin just already acknowledged the influence of Cotton Mather. His influence cannot be you know, we can't miss that.

28:37 Among those hangings was a minister named Burrows, who had denounced the proceedings of Mather and his associates and his execution. Mather appeared among the crowd on horseback and quieted to people with quotations from scripture, Mather gloried and these judicial murders end quote quick in Boss's School History of the United States, eighteen sixty eight, pages one thirty eight to one forty. And I'm good that that's in a textbook. They're saying that the textbooks, I guess are wrong. Cotton Mather was there. He was on horseback. Now, he didn't just calm the crowd when the crowd's like, ah, well, let's not kill Burrows. He's the one who convinces them to proceed with the execution.

29:19 So are he's going to say that that's factually an error that Cotton Mather wasn't there. Now, that textbook may have implied that Cotton Mather did not like Burrows, because Burrows has possibly criticized what was going on in Salem. I did not make that implication in my narrative that I gave. I did not state that right. I even asked the question, do we think, you know, Mather really believed that Burrows was guilty, or do we think there was something else I am. I asked the question. I did not make the implication. So if you wanted to say, the textbook may have offered, you know, some motivation for and you can criticize that, I'm willing to hear that.

30:02 But are you going to say Mather wasn't there? Are you going to say Mather did not convince the crowd to continue with the execution of this of the Reverence of Reverend Burroughs or Minister Burrows. From Lossing's Victorial History of the United States eighteen sixty eight, page one oh six, Cotton, Mather and other popular men wrote in its defense, kellfh a citizen of Boston, exposed Mather's credulity and greatly irritated the minister. Mather called kell weaverturn minister, a coal from Hell, and prosecuted him for slander. End quote. Well, due to my shortness of time in a single podcast, I can't read all of these quotes, but I go on to quote mister Poole. Mister Bancroft adopts substantially the views of Upham Cotton. Mather's Mauma's vanity gloried in the assaults of evil angels upon the country to cover his own confusion, he got up a case of witchcraft in his own parish. Was Cotton Mather honestly credulous?

31:08 He is an example how far selfishness under the form of vanity ambition can blind the higher faculties, stupefy the judgment, and dupe consciousness itself. But we need not pause over mister Baincroft's secondhand in rhetorical statements. Mister Hildreth gave some attention to the original authorities and saw that the wild assertions of mister Upham and mister Bancroft were untenable. It is to be regretted that, with his candidate and impartial methods of study, he did not go far enough to reach the whole truth, he says. The suggestion that Cotton Mather, for purposes of his own deliberately got up this witchcraft illusion and forced it upon a doubtful and hesitating people is utterly absurd. Mather's physician convictions and temperament alike called him to serve on this occasion the organ exponent and stimulator of the popular faith. End quote the.

32:08 Again, I'm not hearing any I'm not hearing any actual defense, you're just basically saying Mather didn't do this. You're not explaining anything. The point was Cotton Mather's book was the blueprint, it was the script. You can't deny that. And considering that the book was literally in the possession of the pastor whose daughter and niece makes the first accusations following the book to the letter, now, I can't say they read the book. I don't know how they knew, but it was way too much of a coincidence. And then not only a wait, Mather's involvement with the case in Boston, Mather at the execution of Burr. I mean, come on now, but okay, okay, so far they're just like, well, this is not true. This is not true. You're not telling me why it's not true. You're not giving me any evidence to the contrary.

33:02 His views respecting mister Mathers's connection with the Salem Trials are to be found in no publication of a date prior to eighteen thirty one, when mister Upham's lectures were published. The Clergy of New England, indeed, soon after the delusion abated and subsequently had been blamed for fostering the excitement an increased Mather in Cotton math or father and son being the most prominent clergyman in the colony. Both staunch believers in the reality of witchcraft and writers on the subject were criticized more freely than any others. But these charges were very different from those we are to consider. Mister Upham, in the appendix to his second edition, printed in eighteen thirty two, sets forth and maintains for his opinions the claim of originality to which he is entitled.

33:51 The accuracy of his statements respecting mister Mathers's character had been questioned. Now it's hang on, I'm doing it check here, because he made a claim here. Uh okay. The assertion that there was no record of Cotton Mather attending the execution of George Burrows until after eighteen thirty one is incorrect. Contemporary accounts from sixteen ninety two, notable by Robert Caliph and Samuel Sewall, document Matther's presence at the execution. So don't say that that whole story about him being at the execution didn't show up till eighteen thirty one. That's garbage.

34:31 It's just not true, and you're a stinking seminary Get your historical Facts straight right. Robert Califf, a contemporary critic of the Salem witch trials, detailed Mather's attendants in his work More Wonders of the Invisible World seventeen hundred. Caleph described how Mather, mounted on a horse, addressed the crowd to reaffrom burrows guilt after Burrows had recited the Lord's Prayer flawlessly, a feat believed impossible for witches. Mister Burrows was carried in a cart with others the streets of Salem to execution. When he was upon the ladder, he made a speech for the clearing of his innocency, which was solemn and serious expressions, as were to the admiration of all present. He concluded by repeating the Lord's Prayer, which he did composedly and exactly, exactly as is generally reported by the spectators the accusers said. By the spectators, the accuser said, the black man in parentheses Satan stood and dictated to him. As soon as he was turned off hanged mister Cotton. Mather, being mounted upon a horse, addressed himself to the people, partly declared that mister Burrows was no ordained minister partly to possess the people of his guilt, saying that the devil has often been transformed into an anger angel of light. All right, So in other words, we have here seventeen hundred. You have a full account here, a full account here, all right. Yeah,

36:02 and that's written kind of weird. As soon as he was turned off and then in parentheses hanged, mister Cotton Mather, being mounted upon a horse, addressed himself to the people. That sounds like when it means as soon as he was turned off means they stopped the hanging and then he spoke or does that mean he spoke after the hanging. I don't know. I've always heard that it was right before. That's the case. But the point was he was there, so you can't get and he justifies what just happened. A judge during the trials also noted Mather's presence and his diary entry dated August nineteenth, nineteen sixty two, mentioning that Mather was at the execution and had interactions with the crowd. These first ten accounts from sixteen ninety two confirmed that Cotton Mather attended George Burrow's execution, refuting claims that such records emerged only after eighteen thirty one. So anyone's saying they that a lot of this washing nothing existed till eighteen thirty one, when all of the I guess the liberals showed up to somehow make poor Cotton Mather look bad. That's not accurate. That is, that does not appear to be accurate, all right, So let's continue.

37:17 Mister Upham and his reply admits that previously to the investigation of the subject of his lectures, quote, a shadow of a doubt had never been suggested respecting mister Mather's moral and Christian character end quote. He adds, quote it was with the greatest reluctance that such a doubt was permitted to enter into my mind. Nobody questioned his moral or Christian character because it was obviously in line with the moral and Christian character of the Puritans to kill witches. Okay, So I don't know what that proves. Nobody's made an argument he did not have moral and Christian character. Now will I know, take it back, I will call into question his moral and Christian character as someone who don't believe you should be killing witches. All right, So I think maybe that's the case.

38:05 But if you believe in killing witches, then of course you're going to justify his moral and Christian character. Now, I think the way he handled George Burrow or Reverend Burrow's death, I think is as absolutely atrocious. I think it's absolutely horrible the way that went down. Absolutely, I mean, especially from every account, the way it went down. He could have stopped and say, wait, he just recited the Lord's prayer. Some of you want to halt this, Let's halt this, let's do more investigating. And only that. Oh, spectral evidence that Cotton Mather promoted was ridiculous. So but again they have not offered any positive evidence of anything other saying that basically Cotton Mather was a good guy.

38:48 Carton Mather was a good guy, and nobody said anything bad after eighteen thirty one, I don't know. We have records of people talking about him seventeen hundred and even before that. Even before that, we have that diary that dates back to right there around the time of the trial, showing that Cotton Mather was there and he had interaction with the crowd. It seemed incredible, nay, almost impossible that a man who had been at the head of all the great religious operations of his day, who had been the instrument of so many apparent conversions, and who devoted so many hours and days and weeks of his life to fasting in prayer, could in reality be dishonest and corrupt. But when the evidence of the case required me to believe that in the transactions which I'd undertaken to relate his character did actually appear in this dark and disgraceful light, a regard for truth and justice compelled me to express my convictions in this discussion. We shall treat mister Upham's lectures and history in the same connection as the latter, as an expansion in defense of the views presented in the former.

39:56 In the history, Cotton Mather appears more frequently and in a more favorable light than in the lectures, and many of the allusions to him are not referred to in the index. He comes in when we should least expect him, and always with evil purpose, plotting and counterplotting. Disappointed when the trials were over, planning new excitement and other trials in Boston, unrepentant when everybody else had taken to the confessional, wrecked in reputation almost before his career had commenced, and going to his grave full of remorse and disappointment. But William Poole says of Upham's research quote, mister Upham is never at a loss to know what mister Mather contemplated on an occasion, what he longed for, what he would have been glad to have, what he looked upon with secret pleasure, and what he was secretly and cunningly endeavoring to do. Mister p Buddy also knows when Cotton Mather was in his element and what he enjoyed the great felicity of We do not hope to follow these writers into the dark recesses of mister Mather's mind, But in the course of this investigation we shall take up some of their statements and examine them in the light of evidence that may be regarded as historical. A few words touching the widespread belief in witchcraft prevalent in the seventeenth century may prepare some of our readers better to appreciate the events which are more particularly to come under our notice. Donation, no asion, no form of religion or irreligion may claim an immunity from this superstition. The Reformers were as zealous

41:29 in this manner as the Catholics. It is estimated during the sixteenth and seventeenth century two one hundred thousand persons were executed, mostly burned, in Europe, Germany furnishing one half of the victims in England thirty thousand. We are soon to consider the credulity and superstition of Cotton Mather, and desire here to call attention to the non entire absence of these qualities in the state and judicious John Winthrop, the founder of the Massachusetts Colony, the facts in relation to Margaret Jones to be that she was a strong minded woman with. A willa Okay this already there was like a skip there, and it almost feels like he jumped ahead somewhere in the article. I don't know. This is just like he's just do it. This makes it very difficult. So I'm I may try to come back and play a little bit more of this, but I'm gonna start breaking this down, all right. Uh and and and we're going to try to go through this to the best of my ability, all right. So uh well, I guess we'll just keep listening and we'll just try to deal with it that way, like I want to just kind of start taking this apart, but I just feel like, hang on, let me let me see here. Can I open this?

42:40 Let me see here? Yeah, I don't think I can. I wanted to. I wanted to see if I could open up this transcript here to make sure that I've got the right transcript because I got so many transcripts that AI has looked at. Well, we'll go a little bit further and we'll see what they start saying here. And ah, man, this is so difficult to try to do a reviewer. But we'll go a little bit further, Just a little bit further. Of her own and undertook with simple remedies to practice as a female physician where she living in our day, She would brandish a diploma of MD from the New England Female Medical College, would annually refuse to pay her city, Texas unless she had the right to vote, and would make speeches at the meetings of the Universal Suffrage Association.

43:29 Her touch seemed to be attended with mesmeric powers. She made anniaseseed and good lookers do the work of huge doses of calomel and epsom salts or their equivalents. Her predictions as to the determination of cases treated and the heroic method proved to be true. Wherever the regulars pounced upon her as a witch, as the monks did upon Fossis for printing in the first edition of the Bible, put her and her husband into jail, set rude men to watch her day and night, subjected her person into indignities unmentionable, and with the assistance of John Winthrop and the magistrates, hamed her. And all of this only fifteen years before Cotton Mather the Credulous was born. Mary Johnson was executed the same year in Hartford.

44:16 I guess what they're trying to say is this, these things were happening before Cotton Mather. Nobody denies that these things happened before Cotton Mather. Nobody denies thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people were killed in Europe for the witch trouse. Nobody is doubting any of that. What we're saying is that when Cotton Mather writes out his book, he lays the literally the blueprint for Salem would by no means were denying that the other things would not have an influence. But you can't deny the Cotton mathers. I don't even It's like, well, other things happened before Cotton Mather, so Cotton Mather is completely exempt from any responsibility. That's just ridiculous. That doesn't prove anything. So I'm gonna go to this because because this just gets this gets this gets irritating. This is why AI says I have identified several historical, factual, and logical errors in the podcast defense of Cotton Mather. Well, it is true that Cotton Mather was not a judge or prosecutor. The argument that he had no significant role in the Salem trials is misleading and downplays his thellological influence on the events. Here is a breakdown of the key errors. Right number one misrepresentation of Mather's influence on the Salem trial. Mather was not hang on, I'm gonna make sure I got this here, Yes, okay, okay, yes, I'm going to make sure I've got the right claim.

45:39 Somewhere in this it appears that they're going to make the claim that Mather was not involved in the trials and his roles has been exaggerated by historians after eighteen thirty one, which we already heard them make a little bit of those claims. While Mather was not a judge, he actively defended the trials and provided theological justification for them both before and after they took place. Mather's book Memorable Providences Relating to Witchcraft and Possession sixteen eighty nine was widely read and helped establish the framework for identifying witches. This book was known to have been owned by Reverend Samuel Parris and influenced how the Salem judges approached witchcraft cases.

46:20 It validated spectral evidence and described children being afflicted by witches, which directly mirrors the accusations made in Salem. Mathers supported the use of spectral evidence testimony that a person's spirit attacked someone even if their body was elsewhere, which was one of the most controversial aspects of the trial. He wrote a letter to William Stoughton sixteen ninety two and a letter to Judge Stoughton. Mather urged him to continue prosecuting witches and specifically stated that spectral evidence should not be dismissed outright. He literally wrote to one of the judges, but hey, we're gonna Mather is not the bad guy here.

47:02 This contradicts that letter right to the judge and everything else contradicts the podcast assertion that Mather played no role in his legal proceedings. He was directly influencing the judges, His book was influencing the ministers. He wrote letters to influence the judges, and he was at the execution of someone in the trial. Oh but no, no, no, no, no, no. Mather's innocent. He's a good guy. What are you talking about? Number two false claims that Wonders of the Invisible World was unrelated to the trials. Mather's book Wonders of the Invisible World was published after the trials and was and was not an endorsement of it. This is the claim by the podcast that Mather's book Wonders of the Invisible World was published after the trials and was not endorsement of them. Mather wrote Wonders of the Invisible World specifically to defend the Salem Trials and justify the executions. The book explicitly praises the trials and argues that New England was under spiritual attack from witches. Mather's work portrays those executed as guilty, despite later evidence that many were wrongfully accused.

48:12 He included court records and defended the verdicts, suggesting that the judges acted righteously and condemning witches. The podcast implies that Mather was neutral or uninvolved. His own writings show that he actively sought to justify the trials and reassured the public that the court had acted properly. He wasn't neutral, He wasn't not involved the Goodwin case of sixteen eighty eight in Boston, all right. The podcast claims that Mather's involvement in the Ann Glover case in sixteen eighty eight did not lead to the Salem trials, but this is historical era. The Goodwin case played a crucial role in shaping Salem. Mather was directly involved in the Goodwin case and personally oversaw the interrogation of Anne Glover, a Catholic woman accused the be witching Puritan children. The case introduced many of the same elements that would appear in Salem.

49:05 Afflicted children experiencing fits, the belief that witches could torment others through spectral means, the idea that the accused were part of a large network of witches. Mather wrote about this case extensively, and his and his book on. It was widely read by Puritan leaders, including those in Salem. Reverend Samuel Parris, one of the key figures in Salem, had access to Mather's work and may have used it as a guide in interpreting the afflictions of the Salem children. Not only did he have access to the book, almost everything says he had the book in his house in his study. The parallels between the Goodwin case and Salem are undeniable, and it is historically misleading to claim that Mather's early writings did not shape the trials. Next, the claim that the claim that Mather's diary does not mention the Salem Trials. The podcast is going to claim that Mather's diary does not contain reflections on the Salem Trials, which prove he was not involved. This is a logical error.

50:05 The absence of a personal diary entry does not mean Mather had no involvement. This is a logical fallacy known as an argument from silence. Just because Mather does not explicitly reflect on Salem and his personal diary does not mean he was not involved. Mather's public writings, his sermons, his letters, his books explicitly defend the trials. Those hold far more historical weight than a private diary. The podcast ignores the fact that Mather actively corresponded with judges and officials during the trial. In his letter to Judge Stoughton, he commended the judge for their actions, writing and I quote, if in the midst of the many services which you are pressing for our Lord, you meet with any singular discouragement, you may comfort yourself with this that our Lord christ has seen it and will reckon it. This clearly shows that Mather was not indifferent to the trials, but encouraged the judge to continue their work all right. A misrepresentation of Mather's stance on spectral evidence, The podcast claims Matther was skeptical of spectral evidence and did not support using it in trials. However, this is historical error. Mather's own writings contradict this claim. While he did caution that spectral evidence alone should not be the only proof, he repeatedly defended its use as valid evidence and wonders of the invisible world, he described cases where spectral evidence played a role in convicting witches and praised the judge for their wisdom.

51:32 The trials used spectral evidence, precisely because figures like Mather had legitimized in prior cases. Cotton Mather personally attended at least one of the executioners, George Burrows, and justified it even when doubts were raised. Burrows recited the Lord's Prayer flawlessly before being hanged, which shocked the crowd, since which is were believed to be incapable of doing so. Cotton Mather immediately intervened, telling the crowd that the devil could appear as an angel of light, effectively sh ssuring that the execution proceeded. So a lot of the claims are just fraudulent. They're just absolutely historically and accurate. There's logical fallacies.

52:14 The defense here is just insane. Let's listen to a little bit more of the defense. Mary Parsons was tried in sixteen fifty one and again in sixteen seventy four. Her husband, Hugh Parsons, was tried in sixteen fifty two. In sixteen fifty one, two persons were tried in Hartford. In sixteen fifty three, good wife Nap was hanged at Fairfield, Connecticut, and so on. Mister Pabuddy says, quote after the execution of missus Hibbins in sixteen fifty six. The taste for such scenes had abated, and it was not until Cotton Mather in sixteen eighty five published in an Account of Several Cases of Witchcraft, that such fears and fancies revived in quote. But though we have given only an incomplete sketch of the early witch proceedings in New England, it is enough to show that the colonies were in a constant ferment from supposed diabolical agency for more than forty years before sixteen ninety two, and every community there were suspicious and accusations which never came to a public examination, the same disturbance that existed to a still greater extent in England and throughout Europe.

53:18 With look, this thing is so there was a huge gap, he said. But you know, I'm not going to go into all the details. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. But there was a case that was four years before Salem, four years in fact, it was the last execution in Boston for witchcraft four years before. Who was involved in that case, Oh yeah, Cotton Mather who wrote about that case. Cotton Mather, who put it in a book that ended up in the pastor's study, who happens to have his daughter and his niece who make the accusations. Oh yeah, and which book was that written by Cotton Mather? Cotton, you can say, well, there was all these old cases and then but well, I mean, see for forty years they've been in a panic. For have they been in a panic for forty years? Or did it have waves?

54:10 It kind of rises and then it kind of goes down, and everybody moves on, and then it comes back. Well, I wonder what came back. Well, four years before Salem, Cotton mathers involved in a case and he writes the book that becomes the blueprint for Salem. None of this proves. There's not one thing here that's proving anything. Oh, this is maddening. The persons actuated simply by malice to ease the method of annoying the neighbor, or of writing a community of a pestilent old woman, was by setting them on foot a charge of woodcrest against them. English books relating to the subject were very numerous and constituted the delight reading of the day. Everybody knew how a witch ought to behave, and some of their pranks afforded young people of unregenerate minds agreeable recreation after their unsavory tasks over to Cambridge Platform and a Westminster confession of faith. On such reasoning, it will readily be seen that witch trials would be very infrequent and very harmless affairs. And yet these writers, judged by our modern standards, were very credulous and superstitious persons.

55:23 The narrative we have quoted from John Winthrop's journal would not have seemed to them absurd or revolting. No intelligent person in those times rejected the theory of diabolical agency unless he rejected also the authority of the Old and New Testaments, the existence of angels, and a life beyond the grave. A believe in witchcraft was essential to the maintenance of a Christian character. To express any doubts on the subject was to lay oneself open to denunciation as a sadducee, a term of reproach which had lost its significance, had then had no one within the pale of the Christian Church had then written or spoken again the reality of witchcraft. By taking an individual of a past generation out of his relations with his own times and putting him upon the background of modern civilization and refinement, and then reproaching him with opinions and practices now shown to be erroneous, by which he shared in common with all of his contemporaries. It is very easy to make any character appear ridiculous and even culpable. But this is not the historical method of dealing with the reputations of men of a former age. We of the present shall need a more charitable interpretation of our own opinions and acts on a part of those who follow us. Did the man act well his part with the light he had?

56:41 Did he, in a time of intense excitement, when life and reputation were at stake, act with reference to his duty to God and in charity to his fellow men. We have set forth some minuteness the theories of such writers as Perkins and Bernard, because we are to meet with these names as authorities and the progress of our investigation. When the Governor and Council asked the advice of the clergy of Boston and a vicinity in June sixteen ninety two, those ministers Advise and Cotton Mather drew up the advice that there is need of very critical and exquisite caution and recommended quote that the directions given by such judicious writers as Perkins of Bernard may be observed in quote.

57:23 Both the Mathers adopted the theory of these writers and frequently made references to in quotations from them. But we shall recur to this manner in another connection. We now come to consider the first case of witchcraft in which Cotton Mather was concerned, and of which mister Upham says, quote, there is reason to believe that it originated the delusion of Salem in quote. As the case is one of much importance, we shall allow Governor Hutchinson, who knew some of the parties concerned and had conversed with others who were eyewitnesses, to relate to main incidents. Quote eight began a more alarming instance than any which had preceded it.

58:04 Four of the children of John Goodwin, a grave man and a good liver at the north part of Boston, which. Please now please note he tried to make it sound like, well, there's been had been a constant fear, but then he just acknowledged that in sixteen eighty eight this case was far greater than anything to come before it all right, so oh wait, well so this is going to spark everything. Okay, wait now wait, that's the good one case. That's the good one case, the one that I directly draws a parallel to what happened in Salem, because the parallels are staggering, And now are they going to try to say Cotton Mather was not involved in the sixteen eighty eight case.

58:45 Generally believed to be bewitched. I had often heard persons who were of the neighborhood speak of the great consternation it occasioned. The children were all remarkable for ingenuity of temper, had been religiously educated, and we're thought to be without. The eldest was a girl of thirteen or fourteen years. She had charged the laundress one Glover with taking away some of the family linen. The mother of the laundress was one of the wild Irish of bad character, and gave the girl harsh language, soon after which she fell into fits which were said to have something diabolical in them. Do you not hear one of the Irish? You can already hear the prejudice and the bigotry in this, because the Irish were viewed this way and of bad temper man don't okay, And again I don't know how this is excusing Cotton Mather in any way, shape or form, unless they're going to try to accuse the woman who was killed. Okay, I guess you're going to try to make her sound bad, all right, because you know she's the bad one, the one, you know, the victim, the one who was murdered. Okay, she's the bad one, I guess.

59:54 One of her sisters and two brothers followed her example, and it is said we're tormented in the same part of their bos at the same time, although kept in separate apartments and ignorant of each other's complaint. Sometimes they would be death and dumb and blind, as sometimes all these disorders together would come upon them. Their tongues would be drawn down their throats and pulled out upon their chins, their jaws, necked, shoulders, elbows, and all their joints would appear to be dislocated, and they would make most piteous outcries of burnings, of being cut with knives, bead and so on, and the marks of wounds were afterwards to be seen. The ministers of Boston and Charleston kept a day of fasting and prayer at the troubled house, after which the young child made no more complaints. The others persevered in the magistrates and interpose, and the old woman was apprehended, but upon examination would neither confesst nor to deny, and appear to be disordered in her senses. Upon the report of physicians, she was executed, declaring at her death that children should not be relieved. The elder after this was taken into a minister's Mister Mather's family, where at first she behaved orderly, but after some time fell into her fits. The account of her affliction is in print.

1:01:11 Mather's memorable providence is sixteen eighty nine. Yeah, Mather puts it in a book. Now, mean, when they went through that really quick, they talked about how ministers, but they didn't name any. Then they finally named Mather. Mather was directly involved in the Goodwin case and personally oversaw the interrogation of Anne Glover. Kind of left that part out, didn't they. Some things are mentioned as extraordinary, which tumblers are taught every day to perform. Others are more natural. But it was a time of great credulity. In quote History of Massachusetts, Volume two, pages twenty four to twenty six. In his lectures of eighteen thirty one, which have given the queue to all subsequent writers, Upham states, as an historical fact at the good human case was quote brought about by his Cotton Mathers management end quote. Now, if mister Upham had not read the little evidence there is in this case, he was chargeable with a negligence and recklessness of statement which we do not like to characterize, and thus selling the reputation of a member of his own profession who was not living to make answer if he had read the evidence. But the case is not a supposable one.

1:02:25 No one who knows mister Upham will for a moment imagine that he would consciously make a misstatement or suppress any evidence which he deemed essential to a proper estimate of a character of which he was treating. We think it proper to make this explicit avowal here, for we shall often have occasion to question his facts and scrutinize his authorities, as well as challenge his reasoning. There is no more unsafe and perilous task than the writing of history with a theory to maintain if a preconceived opinion be strong and active, it must be controlled by no common love of truth and justice, not to render the person holding it disqualified, even for the examination of authorities.

1:03:06 Everything which comes under his eye only strengthens his opinion. The case seems to him so plain that he considers it unnecessary to look up rare and forgotten pamphlets and pour over musty manuscripts in the obscure choreography of two centuries ago, for the purpose of verifying a date or explaining the motives of a person on whom he is to pass judgment. Mister Upham can never have seen quote some few remarks upon a scandalous book by one Robert Calef in quote Boston, seventeen oh one, which was written by the parishoners of the Second Boston Church as a apply to caless charges against mister Mather. Neither can he have seen quote some miscellaneous observations on the present debates respecting witchcrafts in quote sixteen ninety two, nor increase Mathers cases of conscience concerning witchcrafts sixteen ninety three. Or if he had seen these very important tracks, he would, with his integrity of purpose, have quoted from them. The evidence to upset is all theory.

1:04:10 Give me the evidence that up ends his whole theory. You clearly have already attached Cotton Mather to the case in Boston. You've already said that the case in Boston was extraordinary above the others before it. So that and it happens four years before Salem, four years and you, I guess you're just gonna kind of leave out that that book that Mather writes is about what happened in Boston becomes the blueprint exactly for what happened in Salem. I I this comes from a seminary. I just I don't get it. I don't get all right, I'm gonna I'm kinda trying to let this play out. I know we're already over an hour, but at this point I have to finish this. I don't know what else to say.

1:04:52 This is just like, this is what's provided as evidence. It's just reading, and it's like no explanation. Should know nothing, But he has read Cotton Mather's diary, which is full of penitential confessions and acknowledgments to himself and his maker of Manifold transgressions of pride vanity, hardness of heart, imprudent zeal, and unworthiness in his master's service. These confessions mister Upham regards as historical evidence. Such a use of the confessional, we believe is not common with historical writers. Before such a touchstone, any devout man who keeps a diary will inevitably fall, since a more devout he is, a more self deprecatory will be his confessions.

1:05:38 Under this test, the apostles to the gentiles himself becomes the chief of sinners. No historian has a moral right to assel the character of a man who bore a good reputation in the stay without an exhaustive and candid examination of authorities, such an examination which will show that mister Upham has not made in the case of Cotton Mather, and that he has used the facts which have come under his observation with a strong bias against mister Mather as a man of integrity in veracity. Mister Upham does not bring a particle of evidence or quote a single authority in proof of his allegations that the Goodwin case is brought about by Cotton Mathers management. End quote.

1:06:23 No one said, well, you may be arguing that someone said Cotton mather brought about the case and it was by his management. No one said that, or at least I have it. The person you're quoting, maybe, but that's not if you're going to really deal with this in any meaningful way, You're going to deal with the fact. What do people say about Cotton Mathers' involvement in the Boston case That he was there, he was a part of the interrogation, he was you can't remove him from it, and then he wrote about it, and then his book is the blueprint for what happens in Salem? And what's this he's going to talk about? The diary? Obviously, the implication is a Mather did not confess in his diary. Why would he confess Mather thought he was right, That's why he never repents of it. Why would he repent on something in his diary that he would never repent of publicly. Now maybe now, sometimes it is true that you may repent of something in your diary that you don't repent of something publicly. That's very I guess that is more common. But the point is, just because there's nothing in his diary, you can't use that as c Mather didn't do anything wrong. It may demonstrate that it's not in his diary because he didn't believe he did anything wrong. With believing you do something wrong and doing something wrong or not the same thing. And you're going to judge what happened in history based off what's not in a diary. This is the most ridiculous thing. This is a seminary. Hey, if it's not it, so, hey, guys, anything you think I've ever done wrong? Here right over here.

1:07:48 I have a journal diary right here, right here. Oh, I have another one down here. Hey. If I don't confess it in this, I didn't do it. Only what's in my diary, you can you can hold me accountable for what is that nonsense? An allegation which he accompanies by others equally unsupported. He says, quote doctor Cotton Mather aspired to be considered the great champion of the Church and a most successful combatant against the prints of the power of the air. He seems to have longed for an opportunity to signalize himself in this particular kind of warfare, and repeatedly endeavored to get up a delusion of this kind in Boston, an instance of witchcrafts was brought about by his management in sixteen eighty eight. There's some drown for suspicion that he was instrumental in causing the delusion in Salem. At any rate, he took a leading part in conducting it. In Quote Lectures, pages one oh six and one oh seven, the same statements in almost the same words he reproduces in his History Volume two, page three sixty six. Mister John Goodwin, the father of the afflicted children, told the story of his domestic trials over his own name in Mather's Memorable Providence of sixteen eighty nine, page forty six. He describes how the first child was taken, then a second, and later two others. Friends were called in and afterwards physicians, but no relief came. He then says, quote, now, I, considering my affliction to be more than ordinary, it did

1:09:20 certainly call for me more than ordinary prayer. I appointed mister Allen, mister Moody, mister Willard, and mister Cotton Mather, the four ministers of the town with it, and mister Morton of Charleston, earnestly desiring them that they, with some other praying people of God, would meet at my house, and there be earnest with God on the behalf of myself and my children. End. Quote de Cotton Massther have anything to do with the case before he was called in with four other clergymen, after the affair had been going on for some time, and physicians and sympathizing friends had given no relief. Mister Upham must show this or his accusation fails. Twelve years afterwards, Robert Califf, between whom and mister Masther, a personal quarrel existed, and many bitter words had passed published as more Wonders of the Invisible World, in which he says, page one hundred and fifty two, quote mister Cotton Mather was the most active and forward of any minister in the country. And these goodwin matters taking home one of the children and managing such intrigues with that child, and after printing such an account of the whole and as memorable providences, has conduced much to the kindling those flames that in Sir William's time threatened to devouring this country. And quote Mishell in another place speak of the value to be set upon Caleff's statements respecting mister Mather. Soon upon Caleff's book appeared, the parishioners of mister Mather took up this accusation, and in some few remarks seventeen oh one, which mister Upphamus never seen,

1:10:53 proved it to be a downright falsehood. One of the seven persons who prepared to reply with John Goodwin, the father of the children, he makes over his own name a further statement, which we give entire Let the world be informed that when one of my children had been laboring under sad circumstances from the invisible world for about a quarter of a year, I desired the ministers of Boston with Charleston to keep a day of prayer in my house, if so be deliverance might be obtained. Mister Cotton Mather was the last of the ministers that I spoke to on that occasion, and though by reason of some necessary business he could not attend, yet he came to my house in the morning of that day and tarried about half an hour, and went to prayer with us before any other minister came. Never before had I the least acquaintance with him. About two or three months after this, I desired that another day of prayer might be kept by the aforesaid ministers, which accordingly they did.

1:11:57 Does anyone know what's going on anymore? It's just like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Nothing is even being broken down in any way. She proved he's not he's steel like, Well, this person made an accusition and this is not really accurate unless he can prove this. But I don't have any evidence to disprove that. I'm just gonna say that that's not true. But it's not dealing with all the insurmountable evidence, and he's still living. He dealt with the fact as long as I could. God Mather was literally at the execute. Okay, I don't I don't get it. I don't get it, adding mister Cotton Mather was then present, But he never gave me the least advice, neither face to face nor by way of epistles, neither directly nor indirectly.

1:12:49 But the motion of going to the authority was made to me by a minister of a neighboring town now departed, and manners were managed by me in prosecution of the supposed the criminal, wholly without the advice of any minister, or lawyer, or any other person. The ministers would now and then come to visit my distressed family and pray with and for them, among which mister Cotton Mather would now and then come and go to prayer with us. Yet all that time he never advised me to anything concerning the law or trial of the accused person. But after that wicked woman had been condemned about a fortnight, mister Cotton Mather invited one of my children to his house, and within a day or two after that, the woman was executed. In quote John Goodwin in vindication of Cotton Mather, the writers of some few Remarks, which we said was from seventeen oh one said quote, now, behold how active and forward Cotton Mather was in transacting the affairs relating to this woman, And be astonished that ever anyone should go to insinuate such things to the world as are known by most had ever heard of those afflicted children to be so far different from the truth? End quote Cotton Mather, according to his custom, with all prisoners visited the Glover Woman twice after her condemnation, not in the spirit of an inquisitor, but as a spiritual adviser. She never denied to him the guilt of witchcraft, but as to her confessions about confederacies with the devil, she only said that she used to be at meetings at which

1:14:21 her prince and four more were present. She told him who the four persons were, and as to her prince quote, her account plainly was that he was a devil quote. Cotton. Mather asked her many questions in reply to which, after a long silence, she said she would fain give full answers, but they would not let her. They who were they? She replied that they were her spirits or her saints. He advised her to break her covenant with hell. She answered that he spoke a very reasonable thing, but that she could not do it. Wait. They try to make it sound like he wasn't involved in the Goodwin case, and here it is. It sound like he was very much involved. He wouldn't talk to her in prison, supposedly hearing these supposed stories. Oh and well those visits he was also the interrogator. Oh and he also wrote about it all. But I thought he wasn't really involved. So yeah, he was very very much involved, and he wrote it in his book, and his book becomes the blueprint for what happened in Salem. How was this proving anything?

1:15:24 He offered a pray with her and asked her to pray for herself. She replied that she could not unless her spirits would give her leave. However, Cotton Mather said, against her will, I prayed with her, which, if it were a fault, it was an excess of pity. Cotton Mather never revealed the names of the persons whom she or others accused for. He said, we should be very tender in such relation unless we wrong the reputation of the innocent by stories not enough inquired into. I cannot resist a conviction, says mister Upham. Quote that he looked upon the occurrences and the Salem trial with secret pleasure and would have been glad to have had them repeated in Boston. Quote, well, well, then, why did not Cotton Metho divulge the names of the person's accused by the Glover woman. He had to manner entirely in his own hands.

1:16:15 And you and you can, you can argue, oh, he did something good here, Well, why didn't he intervene and stop the killing of Burrows? Oh wait, he didn't. Oh wait, and and oh yeah and Glover hmm, oh yeah, they finally come back after him, like oops, we all made a mistake, right, that's why there's an an Glover Day in Boston right on the anniversary of her murder. So even if he didn't say, well, she gave me some more names. But I'm not going to give out these names, and why wouldn't you? And that doesn't even make any sense. If you're worried that ooh, New England's under attack, Boston is under attack from Satan and she gives you four names, four more names, You're not going to do any more investigating in any way, shape or form. You're just gonna like, well, you know, well, we just got to be careful. That's it.

1:17:00 It seems kind of odd to me, all right, did I am I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look this. I am confused by the story of Anne Glover supposedly giving four names of other witches. Uh to Cotton Mather. Okay, let me see here, if we can get some information here because this part of it, I'm like, yes, did it happen.

1:17:59 One? I did Cotton Mather, who believed the area was under satanic okay, hang On, who believed area was under satanic attack, did nothing with the names. All Right, here we go. I'm gonna see if we can get some more information on this because I wasn't completely familiar. Okay, all right, Well, AI is currently starting research. All right, So I don't know if we're going to get an answer immediately. I have not heard this particular case. I'm a little I'm a little bit perplexed here. I'm a little bit perplexed here. Okay, So AI is currently telling me I am piercing together if Anne Goodie Glover provided four names of other witches to Cotton Mather in sixteen eighty eight detecting a Satanic threat. Okay, So it's finding sources, it's accessing the situation. AI here is doing a deep research because I went for deep

1:19:31 research on this. I clicked the deep research button on this, and which is a new feature I think on chat GPT. So I went for deep research. I probably shouldn't have done the deep research one, but that's okay. Now they're up to four sources. I've not heard this claim, but it just makes no sense. Hey, she gave us this name. But look at Cotton Mather. He was such a great guy. He didn't do anything well. If he was such a great guy and he's so worried about a Satanic at back upon Boston and the New England, then you think you'd be like, guys, we've got a problem. But no, nothing, He just I guess writes about it in his book. We up to seven sources. All right, we'll go ahead and finish. Listen to this, and then I'll come back and tell you what I find here.

1:20:22 He could have indulged a desire here ascribed to him, to his heart's content, but we know he did not manifest such a spirit, And we are forced to inquire by what methods of historical investigation mister Upham proceeds when he makes such assertions without examination of the most important documents here adduced. Time we have for this podcast, but for further research, I recommend a book called The math Or Family by Enoch Pond, who was the professor of theology in Mangor Theological. Hey, We're only going to recommend a book that will continue tolidate or vindicate or or somehow say Cotton Mather was a great guy. All the other information and we only want you to read these old books, say, we don't want you to do any research. And I don't know the tons of information about the Salem witch trials.

1:21:14 That is crazy. I don't even know what any of that was. I'm now up to eighteen sources. I'm looking here to see what we have here. Okay, okay, it says here, I know, I'm up to twenty sources. I'm up to twenty sources, AI is saying, expressing uncertainty about the search results, mentioning possibilities like no content found or just listing files. All right, okay, okay, it says, and Glover, this is one source did during her trial, likely did not provide names of other witches to Cotton Mather. This seems to be suggested by accounts of her refusal to name others. All right, I'm up to twenty one sources. Now.

1:22:07 Now I'm looking at the Salem Witch Museum. I'm gathering info and a Glover, which is four names, matth Or Boston. I'm an examining sources on Massachusetts. Which witch hysteria, specifically Good Wife Glover and her possible myth around naming names. Okay, I'm up to twenty two sources. I'm piercing together phrases. I'm mapping out here. It gives me artificial intelligence, gives me everything it's doing. Okay, Okay, now now it's looking at the University of Michigan. Okay, Okay, it's so far.

1:22:58 I'm up to twenty three source. It's not it's not gotten anything as of right now about this supposed claim. Now, they're their whole argument as well, because Cotton Mather didn't Nay, isn't it interesting? She names the names, but Cotton Mather's like, I'm not going to give you the names. Well, okay, so then she's dead. So Cotton Mather can what she's dead. Cotton Mather can say anything. Well, she gave me a name of seventy five, but I'm not going to give the names because we don't want to because I'm gonna demonstrate how cautious I am. Yeah, the other other woman is dead. Okay, we we can't verify it because y'all had her executed for being a witch. All right, man, This deep research function on chat GPT is crazy. I'm never because it if you don't do the deep research, you may get something in about five seconds. If you do the deep research, it takes a long time. So at this point we're not I'm not getting anything. But I was looking at what it's doing in real time because you can click on details and it will show you every little step it's taking, like literally what it's looking at, which is really cool. You get to kind of see behind the curtain of what AI is out there trying to look for. So I love that function.

1:24:17 All right, here we go. In sixteen eighty eight, four of the six children of Boston mason John Goodwin began suffering mysterious suffering mysterious fits after dispute with the family's Irish washwoman Goody, Goodwife Glover, and her daughter Goodie. Glover. An elderly impoverished Irish Catholic, was an easy target, and Puritan Boston Reverend Cotton Mather, a twenty five year old minister, took keen interest in the case and documented the strange afflictions in detail. All of that's from the Salem Witch Museum, which I have been to. All right, then it gives me more information here. This comes from the Congregational Library later published Memorable Providence relating to Witchcrafts and Possessions describing the Goodwin Children's torments and Glover's subsequent witchcraft trial. This incident was, for Matthew dramatic evidence of the looming threats of the invisible world and powers of the devil at work in Boston. The community was already primed to see witchcraft as hellish reality. It says this grew this convinced.

1:25:23 They were convinced Satan was attacking their godly society through witchcraft. Glover was arrested put on trial for bewitching the Goodwin children. At Glover's trial in late sixteen eighty eight, several classic witchcraft proofs emerged. She could not recite the Lord's prayer a falling, a felling often viewed as a witch's mark. Investigators found poppets, dolls with goat hair, and other ingredients in her home. Under questioning with a translator, Glover primarily spoke Irish Gaelic. The confused woman's essentially confessed to witchcraft. Any with any direct answers hard to obtain until she eventually pleaded with confession rather than denial of her guilt because it sounds like they were having a major problem trying to communicate with her, which only makes the case even that much more messed up. Right, a panel of physicians deemed her sane, and the court convicted Glover of witchcraft, sentencing her to hang. If I remember correctly, one physician said, what are you guys doing here? Right before her execution, Mather twice visited the imprisoned Glover, using an interpreter to probe deeper into her witchcraft claims. According to Mather's own account, Glover never denied her witchcraft, but she was reluctant to elaborate on details of her magical accomplishes. She eventually admitted that she attended meetings with what Mather took to be the Devil and four other witches. However, when Mather pressed her for more information, Glover fell silent and a long time, and finally said they would not give her leave to answer.

1:26:50 In other words, some force spirit or saint, using an Irish word that Mather notes could mean either, prevented her from divulging more. Mather interpreted this as Glover being in lead with the Prince of Darkness, the devil and a coven of four fellow witches. Though it's possible possible that Glover's words were misunderstood due to translation from her Catholic frame of reference. One historian suggests she may have met a Catholic gathering with her prince and four more, a religious meeting led by a priest or a lay leader, rather than a diabolical pact. But please note there's did and then did she give four names? Despite later legends, Glover did not explicitly provide four names of other witches to Cotton, Mather or the court. She acknowledged the existence of four others involved in afflicting the children, but crucially never identified them by name. When asked who her coherts were, Glover would either refuse to say or claim she was unable to matth records that she would not answer because they would not give her leave. UH. Contemporary reports of Glover's final moments likewise indicate that she did not betray any names, and on the gallows of November the sixteenth, Glover repeatedly reportedly warned the children should not be relieved by her death, for others had a hand in it as well. UH. Theymous The ominous statement implied that there were other witches still at large afflicting the Goodwin family.

1:28:08 According to one account, officials Asklover to name those other witches, but she refused to do so. So there is no information about this, all right, Yeah, so and I got it goes on for pages, It goes on for pages, but there does not to be what they just claimed. There does not appear to be any historical evidence of that. And they use it to try to say, see Glover or Cotton Mather was a great guy because he didn't name these other four people. Oh man, all right, there you have it, all right, So if you ever, if you ever, if you're using chat GPT and you want the deep research research function, there's a little microphone kind of and you click on it and it will give you deep research if you want the deep research. But you want the deep research, it takes you about fifteen minutes to get all the information, if you ever want that.

1:29:03 I went with deep research because I wanted to. I mean, that was like the central part of their argument. Cotton Mather was a good guy because he was given four names of witches and he wouldn't share them. What a great guy. He was so cautious and nice, and he's a hero here. I mean, you know, all these people died and the whole thing was messed up. Oh and yeah, I mean you know he was there and helped to ensure that a minister was killed. But hey, he was such a great guy. There you have it. There was the first attempt of someone attempt trying to defend Cotton Mather again, hero of the faith or villain in the story.

1:29:44 I think he's the villain in the story. I think he's the architect of fear. I think he wrote the blueprint. I think he wrote the script and Salem followed it to the very punctuation marks. Thanks to listening, everyone, have a great day. God bless