Christianity and Sin Pt 2

0:01 All right, and the first out, well, actually this goes all the way back to last week. We've been talking about it all week on the podcast. I'll just try to summarize to get us where we need to go. The basic concept, the basic idea is this that whether anyone wants to admit it, whether Christians want to admit it, whether churches want to admit it, the one thing is that the Christian life is a life of sin. It is a life of sin because Christians continue to sin, and Christians can never be sinless or perfect. Now that raises thousands and thousands and thousands of questions, and it should bother It should bother every Christian. The fact that so many Christians don't let this bother them is confusing to me.

0:48 But it doesn't. Basically, Christians are okay with all kinds of sins, right, but then there are certain sins that they're not okay with, And it's really weird how they draw the distinction. But the reality is the Christian life is a life of sin. It's not one of victory. It's not one of overcoming sin in this life because we're never going to be anywhere close to perfect. So we last week we spent the first hour looking at how lordship is incapable of really addressing this issue. And then I recommended a book for everyone on the podcast called Six Secrets of the Christian Life. I only recommended it because if another book trying to offer a solution to this problem, even though I don't solution is maddening, which we'll talk about in a minute. And so that's what we're kind of looking at.

1:36 And we're looking at and I'm not going to go back through everything. We covered last week. So the book Six Secrets of the Christian Life, Chapter one offers their so called solution to this problem. All right, ready for me to break this down for you. We covered this in the first hour, so just pay close attention and I'll try to help you through this so that you can remember it. In the book, they put forth this theory. Are you ready? Number one, the Christian body is dead. The Christian's body is dead. Now, I know you're like, wait a minute, what do you mean by dad. We'll explain in a minute. But if you are a. Christian, your body is dead according to this view. Number two, if you are a Christian, everything in the inside, your nature, your heart, everything has been transformed, it's been changed, it's new.

2:29 Everything on the inside is good. All right. So you know how I always say the call is coming from inside the house. Well, they would argue that God came into the house, found the serial killer, took the serial killer out. So now all the calls coming from inside the house are what perfect and good because you have been completely transformed on the inside. Right, So number one, the body is dead. Number two inside is perfect. Number three, the body, because it is dead, cannot respond to the new nature. And this is where the problem lies. This is their kind of solution. All right, Hey, the body is dead. The inside is perfect, but the body cannot respond to the nature. So you have this duality, you have this conflict. So then what question should you have?

3:23 What questions should this bring to your mind? Well, then how do I get my body to respond to my nature? If my nature is perfect and I can get my body to respond to the nature, what should be the inevitable result perfection? Now the fact that nobody can get to perfection would tell me then that there's somehow this is never going to work. Correct. Well, guess what their solution was to get the body? Well that number four, they would say, the body needs what a resurrection that can happen in this life? And if I can get my body to be resurrected, then my body will be alive to my new nature. Therefore, I don't say this. This is where the Christianity never wants to admit this. But even that supposedly won't get us to true perfection, which makes no sense. Right If the body and the nature are both transformed, then perfection should occur. So what do they suggest to try to bring about this resurrection? I need a mirror, So I'm supposed to take the Bible, hold it up to my face, and this is and then they abandon resurrection language all of a sudden. Now I'm supposed to look at the Bible and this is slowly going to transform me, which now they've abandoned the very concept they put forth in the first chapter, which is supposed to be a resurrection.

4:40 Transformation is not what resurrection resurrection would be. What instant transformation is slow, So the whole thing becomes convoluted and confused. So we're like, wow, and what does this demonstrate? Christianity does not have an answer to the problem. I think there's some answers, but nobody in Christianity wants to hear the answers, because Christianity wants to continue to sell the nonsense that when you become a Christian you're a new creature, old things passed away and you can basically be perfect and good. And that does not come from historical Christianity. All right, historical Christianity. And I started the first hour by doing this. Guess what is happening in every churches all across America this morning that still hold to some resemblance of historical Christianity. Well, those who still hold some connection to historical Christianity will begin their worship service this morning by saying something like this. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God, who is faithful and Jess, will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, Most Merciful God, we confess that we are.

5:52 In bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves. There are churches today that before the worship or in the beginning of the worship service will confess that the very people there are still in. Bondage to sin. You go to almost any Evangelical Reformed Baptist church. They would lose their mind to hear. That, because they would say, we're no longer in bondage descin we have been set free from the. Power of sin. That's what almost every church in Abelian would teach, other than those who hold to that kind of confession, which would be Catholics and Lutherans and Episcopalians, maybe a few Presbyterians maybe, but even in their theology, they would end up contradicting the very confession. If you say we're not in bondage to sin, then what should be the inevitable result of not being in the bondage to sin?

6:47 Perfection? If you can't get to perfection, the thing keeping you from perfection you're in bondage to. It's not deep that. You don't need to go to Bible college to figure that out. That's just reasonable discussion. So what is the answer to all of this? Well, what we started doing in the first hour is we took a journey through Christian history, and what we're doing is we're looking at how Christianity throughout history has tried to answer this problem or try to address this problem. All right, are you ready for how Christianity has tried to address this problem. Right, the first view was what for those who are in the first hour progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification, this is the idea that slowly God is making us more holy? Right, what is the problem with this view? Well, if God is making us holy, why do we never get to perfection?

7:54 And so then the question would be what is keeping us from perfection? Whatever is keeping me from perfection then would be stronger than God. That's a problem, everyone understand. What would be a second problem? If God is doing it, why would he do it progressively? If he wants me to be holy, he could do it what instantaneously? And if God is the one progressively doing it, any lack of sanctification in my life would be Who's fault? God's? This just leads to countless problems. And so we looked at that and we said, we have an issue with it all right, So that's number one. Progressive sanctification. Number two will refer to this as the doctrine of original sin. Even though many say they believe in the doctrine of original sin day this is where they deny it.

8:43 And so when we talk about the doctrine of original sin. There's two major names we need to remember, and those two names are Augustine and Luther. All right, and what was a key element in their teaching that even as save people, we still have a sinful nature. Now, this is denied by almost every church you've ever been in, at least even though they may admit it, they almost immediately contradict it because they will say, you have a new heart, you have a new nature. Well, I have a new heart and a new nature. Do I still have the old? And then you get into this weird thing. Some people say, you have a new nature but an old heart, or you have a new heart but an old nature, And nobody can really explain how the makeup is inside of us, and it gets really convoluted and confusing, and nobody can really articulate it. Augustine and Luther were pretty straight on this. Saint Augustine's doctrine of original sin had a lasting impact on how Christianity. Christianity understands the human condition. Augustine taught that all humans are born with the sinful nature inherited from Adam. Even after salvation, Christians retained the fallen nature, making sin an ever present reality.

9:56 The persistence of sin is not abnormal. It is part of human existence until glorification. Now the fact, no, if I was to say that in most churches, I would be fired that probably tonight or Monday. I cannot say in most churches that sin is not abnormal. It's the normal reality of the Christian life. Now, Christians don't want to admit that, right, nobody. This is my work called hypocrites because we try to claim, Oh, I'm a new creature. Old has passed away, everything is new. I can do it. Well, if I can do it, then do it. Don't talk about it, but can we do it? No, we continue to sin.

10:42 Augustine acknowledge that sin is not abnormal. It is the normal experience. And again, I can demonstrate this in just five seconds. You know what I'm gonna say. I can give you a couple of commands. Be holy as God is holy. Have you ever done that? No? Will you ever do that? No? That means you're in a perpetual state of sin. How come we act like we? If we acknowledge sin is a normal part of our life, then we should not be shocked when anyone sins. Right, we shouldn't be shocked when a pastor sins. We shouldn't be shocked when someone a parishioner sins. So church discipline is not so much about punishing sin. Church discipline would only really apply to what when someone will not repent.

11:26 Or admit the sin. All right, that's really the way it should work. I know that nobody wants to address that, but that's really the way it should work. Okay, So how was Luther's view? Luther believed that we are at the very same time saint and sinner, or at the very same time we are justified and a sinner at the very same time, we're. Both, all right, So what was Luther's view? At the same time we're both and so what did he say? As Christians, we always have a sinful nature, but we are declared righteous by God, by God through faith in Christ. The Christian life is therefore a continual dependence on God's grace, rather than a life of sinless victory. So Luther would say, the life, the Christian life is a continual reliance on God's grace. It's not sinlessness, it's not even victorious.

12:17 It's a life of perpetual defeat. Now I know, to say that would would would utterly nobody would want to believe that, but it's the case, all right. So then we ended with the Wesleyan holiness movement. Now, what is frustrating about the Wesleyan Holiness movement is they sound like and sometimes their view is called Christian perfectionism. But what did even they teach even in being perfect, you're not yet really perfect, so you can reach a level of perfection, but they even have to admit you're still white. Sinning. So even in a perfectionist movement, they have to believe you can't be perfec which is kind of ridiculous, correct, all right, So this brings us to the number four, the Catholic approach. All right, what are going to be the two elements to the Catholic approach?

13:11 What do you think? Sacraments and confession? Sacraments and confession? All right, here's how they would describe it, all right. They would hold to a sacramental theology. In Catholicism, the sacraments, especially confession, play a key role in addressing the ongoing presence of sin. Catholics recognize that while baptism cleanses the believer from original sin, venial sins continue to be a part of life. Did you hear that? Do you notice what they just did? All right, so what does baptism do washes away original sin?

13:53 So then, but venial sins are going to still be a part of the Christian life. So now already that's playing a little game, is it not? Okay? But in some ways it sounds a lot like Christianity does it? Think about it? They believe that baptism washes away original sin. Most churches and most Christians you know, would say in salvation, basically, original sin has been done away with. Your corrupt nature is gone. But what's still going to be in your life? They may allow They still, even though I don't call it, they will allow for venial sins. Does anybody get in trouble for venial sins? No, you don't.

14:35 Even there's not even the threat of church discipline for venial sins. Nobody gets in trouble for venial sins. Then we'll kind of say, well, nobody's perfect. We'll throw it out there. But if you commit a mortal sin, then you're finished. Well, wait, who gets to determine which is the mortal sin and which is the venial sin? That's number one? And then number two. Though, if we admit that we still have a sinful nature, can I control which sin I'm going to commit? That becomes a major. Theological and the philosophical issue as well. Let's read a little bit more about the Catholic view. Regular confession and participation in the Eucharist are seen as means of receiving grace to combat sin. So I have to continue to get grace in order to combat sin. And how do I get that grace? The sacraments and confession? The sacraments and confession, The sacraments and confession. I gotta continue to get something, right, I gotta continue. In some ways, Evangelical Christianity follows the same concept.

15:38 Right. They wouldn't say we need sacrament and confession, but they would say, what, well, we need good preaching, or we need to read our Bible more, or we need to do this, or we need to do that, or we need a conference, or we need there's always these additional things we need, which again makes no sense. If I'm a new creature in Christ and the old things have the older has gone, and everything is new, I. Shouldn't need what anything. And Christian every church you go to, and even in abilee will tell you, oh, you've got the power of God working in you. Will have got power of God is working in me. I don't need anything else. I should be perfect because God is all powerful. If an all powerful.

16:22 God cannot get me to perfection, then why do I need to go to. Church to get it right? Because You're not going to be able to give me something he can't correct. The sacrament of penance provides a way for believers to continue to return to God's grace after falling into sin. This practice acknowledges the ongoing struggle with sin while providing a concrete means of restoration. That's the one good thing I do love about the Catholic view is at least there's what an ongoing system of restoration. There's an ongoing system within the evangelical world. There's you reach a certain level of sin, you're kind of dune, You're finished.

17:02 You're always gonna be viewed. They're gonna they're gonna take you. Out back and brand you with a letter, and you're always gonna be seen as that. Now after you. Say no, right before I'm saying it, that is such that that is such a Protestant game, Right I could I could go to Vegas, sleep with fifty prostitutes and get completely drunk and be addicted to drugs for fifteen years, and then all of a sudden walk into a church. I believe in Jesus. Then all my sins are gone, and guess what, everything is good, nothing's gonna be held against me. But if I do even one of those things after salvation, I'm finished, basically, I'm especially if you're a pastor, you're finished.

17:49 You're done. But but there's all these other sins I can commit as a pastor. And yeah, you guys don't even what dan blink, even if you know, right, there's just some sins I can't commit, right, which it should be better. What should be stated. Really, what churches should do is what churches should do is say, look, the churches should. Make a list. Every church should of all the sins of pastor can commit and all the sins of pastor can't commit, or would not just be Yeah, wouldn't that just be a more honest way. Hey, if you're going to be a pastor in this church, we're cool with these sins, but we're not cool with these now no church would say they're cool.

18:32 But the reality is they are cool with it. Your churches don't like that language, because that would make it look really weird, wouldn't it. Okay? All right, So there's the Catholic approach, sure, right right now? Number five, we'll call this legalism and moralism. Legalism and moralism. All right, everybody ready for this to refer to this as effort based holiness. Effort based holiness. Some Christian traditions have responded to the reality of sin by emphasizing strict adherents.

19:16 To moral laws and rules. Legalism suggests that sin can be minimized through disciplined living, moral effort, and sometimes a rigid set of dos and don'ts. This approach often fails to account for the deeper internal reality of sin, focusing more on outward behavior that sounds like Christianity in general, does it not? So what is this going to emphasize? Do this, don't do this, do this, don't do this, do this, don't do a lot of list of rules, dos and don'ts. Right, and then it's going to focus on your external behavior, not necessarily of the internal reality.

20:00 And many of you have been in churches this way. It's about the dos and. Don'ts, and some cases sounds like just a twelve step program of here's the steps you have to take. Don't watch this, don't do this, and then all your sin, almost inevitably is the result of what external things. Right, if I don't watch this, if I don't go to this movie, if I don't play cards, if I don't do this, if I don't wear this, if I don't do this, if I don't dance, if I don't listen to this, then I'm good, and everything's focused on the external, even though the and it almost denies the reality of the internal. Now I'm not shocked that they would deny the reality of the internal. Why because almost all of evangelicalism says, what about the internal.

20:42 It's new, it's changed. So then they see, then there shouldn't be a problem with you doing the dues and the don'ts. But in those churches where they have all the dues and don'ts, what almost inevitably happens, there's people who don't. Do the dues and they do the donts. Because it doesn't address the reality of the problem, and you almost then always blame something else for the reason that you did the dues. And the don'ts. It's always blamed something externally right right perfectionism. In some denominations, this is a part of legalism and moralism. So we have the effort based holiness. In this system, you also have a perfectionism. Some strands of Christianity, particular and certain Pentecostal and charismatic circles promote a victorious Christian life that downplays or denies the ongoing reality of sin.

21:39 This can lead to guilt and disillusionment when believers find they cannot live up to these expectations. I think it lives up to just redefining sin. But people convince themselves that they can do it. They can do it. This is just a very works based system. And so what do you do when you feel guilty? You just double down on the things you'll do. So you'll say what, I'm gonna read my Bible more. I'm going to study more. I'm going to pray more. I may fast, i may go to church more. I may buy this book, i may go to this conference. I may get an accountability partner. I'm gonna do that. I may have go to a small group. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna and it's all this do do and maybe for a time you feel like you're doing Because you're.

22:22 Doing all these things, you feel what great? Now it all comes down to how sensitive sensitive you are to sin? Right, But if you'll just for five seconds realize, wait a minute, I can be doing all of these things. But what is the inevitable reality of the Christian life? I mean, I'll go through the basic scriptures. Be ye, holy as God is holy? Do you do it? No? Love God with all your heart and mind, body and soul. Do you do it? No? Love your enemy, turn the other cheek, put away wrath, you know, anger, bitterness, do all things without grumbling or complaining. I mean, are you are you getting convicted yet? Meaning that no matter, you can do all these things, but you're still what and a perpetual state of sin. The only thing the legalistic moralistic system works is you just have to now focus only on certain sins and you and denied the internal reality of sin? And this does this create? Does this fix the problem? Doesn't fix anything?

23:26 Does it all? Right? So? What was Number one? Does sanctification as a as a process? Right? Number two? The doctrine of original sin? Number three? The Wesleyan and Holiness movement number four, the Catholic approach number five, Legalism and Moralism number six, Grace centered approaches. We'll refer to this as radical grace or hyper grace movements. Some modern movements that are sometimes referred to as hyper grace movements teach that since believers are under grace, sin is no longer an issue that should cause concern. This approach emphasizes the finished work of Christ to such an extent the believer's responsibility to fight sin is often diminished.

24:15 Critics argue that this can lead to antinomianism, of course, of the belief that Christians are free from the law and moral imperatives. So some have just said why, basically this group is done wide. They've thrown up their hands and they've said, what we can't do it? We can't, We just can't. So what do they just focus on? Christ did? We can't? Christ did? So? Now it's easy to want to criticize them, right, it's easy to want to criticize them, But what can that side always argue? What is the one thing that the hyper grace movement? What can they always say to the people who attack?

25:00 They just say, just be perfect. That's all they have to say. Right, hey, don't attack me, just go be perfect. Look and does that work? It doesn't work. Trust me. When we've had our lordship issues here in this church, what did I tell you? You don't need to fight with me, you don't need to get mad at me. Just go live out your lordship. Is that ever good enough? No? It's never good enough. I'm like, just go live out your lordship. No, they're gonna fight, They're gonna argue because I gotta believe the way they believe. Why I'm not impacting the way you live your Christian life. Live your Christian life for the way anyway you want.

25:41 But you're worried about me. You should be worried about you, because while you're sitting, you're worried about me. I know you're still sinning. But you don't want to acknowledge. You don't want to talk about you, right, you want to talk about me. Well, Hypergrace would be like, look, I know you can't do it. You know I can't do it, So why. Are we going continuing to pay attend we can? Now? I understand the danger there, because the danger is right, Well, what's the point I understand that there's a danger there, but you can kind of understand where that. Ultimately you can see how someone can get there. Right, nobody else has a solution. Look if there was an easy solution when we have all of these systems in Christianity, no, we can't even agree on what to.

26:28 Do with this. While not anti Now then we have kind of a Pauline emphasis on grace, while not Antiinomian many Christian traditions emphasizes Paul's teaching that where sin abounds, grace abounds. All the more, this perspective focuses on the overwhelming power of grace to cover sins, acknowledging the norm of sin while emphasizing God's unmerited favor. I don't know how you draw the distinction there. Well, they're not hyper grace, but it sounds pretty similar, right, Basically, what are they saying, we're going to continue tou sin and what's our only hope? God's grace? That's kind of the same thing as hyper grace. You can maybe hyper grace will just say there's no point in even trying. Maybe this one will say we should try. But whether you're trying or not trying, what is the inevitable result, whether trying or not trying, what is the inevitable result? We're still going to sin, like, we just got to acknowledge that, right, we have to acknowledge that.

27:28 All right. So what are the views so far? Number one? Progressive sanctification. Number two, the doctrine of original sin. Number three, Wesleyan and Holiness movement. Number four, the Catholic approach Number five, legalism I moralism. Number six grace centered approaches, right, grace centered approaches, and we broke those down into basically radical grace, hypergrace, and I guess Pauline emphasis on grace, but you get the idea more of a grace centered approach. Number seven you ready, Mysticism and spiritual wify mysticism and spirituality. The Dark Night of the Soul? Have you anybody heard of that phrase? It's the name of a book, very famous book, right, the Dark Knight of the Soul. Some Christian mystics, such as John of the Cross, have acknowledged the continual presence of sin, but frame it as part of a deeper spiritual journey. The Dark Knight of the Soul represents a time when a believer feels abandoned by God, but it is through this trial that they are purged of deeper sin and self reliance. Sin in this view is seen as a part of the refining process that leads us to a deeper union with God. This is a more mystical approach, right, And this mystical approach acknowledges what that sin is a reality, but it's a part of what It's an essential part of our spiritual journey, and sin

29:03 is part of the refining process. Sin is part of the refining process. That's this one sounds kind at least it acknowledges why sin. It acknowledges we're going to continue to sin, but it seems to but it also says we seem to need to fight against it. What is this system? Though, would possibly completely ignore imputed righteousness. This one wouldn't really focus on that, right, It would have a lot it would be there would be some of this mystical concept would more be connected to Catholicism and Catholic mysticism. But I do like the idea of the it being kind of a part of the journey because it is. Look, if you're a Christian, what has been a part of your journey the entire time.

29:53 Sin. Right, it's been a part of the journey the entire time is sin. So I like the fact that it's there, and it seems to say sin is there, and sin is really a part of the purging process. It's part of the purifying process. Sin actually is part of the purifying process. Why I sin? I'm convicted of sin, which then humbles me and breaks me. So actually it's part of it, all right. You could argue was David more pure before his sin or after his sin?

30:33 Some may say after, right, more broken, more humbled. Right, you could argue that now, but some would say, well, you don't have to commit sin to be that way. This view would almost say you kind of need the sin to get there. You won't ever truly get there. But the only way you're ever going to get there is if you really face your sin. You can't. This is not about denying your sin or turning it away. This is facing it head on and like, man, I'm being broken through it. Right. I'm not saying that that excuses it, but you get the idea, all right. So the next view, we'll call this the resolution view. Right. This is the resolution view, right, and guess where this resolution this is how this is described, You're ready. Many Christians frame the current struggle with sin is something that will only be fully resolved in in the future or in glorification right the final future, when Christ returns. In this view, sin remains a persistent norm in the present, but Christians look forward to a time when they will be fully transformed and glorified free from sin's influence. This perspective sees the Christian life is one of endurance. Are waiting for the ultimate victory over sin in life to come now. In some ways everyone believes this in some level, right, But this view is basically like, hey, guys, all we can do is try to endure because this we're not getting out of this mess until when.

31:59 To the end. It doesn't even try to really try to figure it out. It's just like, look, we're gonna send. We just got to wait till the end. But everyone looks for that end as the answer, because what does every view have to admit? Every view has to admit we're gonna continue this s end. It's just some views lead to more of a denial of that reality, while other views are more willing to acknowledge that reality. Right then number nine will have the pastoral approach acceptance of imperfection. Some pastors and theologians encourage believers to accept their imperfection as a part of their Christian journey instead of expecting victory in this Christian life. Now, let me tell you that will get you fired in most churches. But I think, don't you believe don't we have to just don't. We have to come to a point that we just have to say what. We got to accept our imperfection. We just got to accept it. I will agree with it. We just have to accept it. Nobody is getting that. Nobody's getting through this perfect nobody ever. There's gonna be sin.

33:11 There's gonna be sin. There's gonna be sin. Now, just raises questions, right, and we'll talk about some of these questions here in the end. But so so, and we should not expect victory. You should not expect victory in this life. If you expect victory in this life, you're just diluted, you're confused, all right. Acknowledging that everyone falls short and that sanctification is a lifelong process. Now, this may bring in the progressive sanctification, but the thing with this one is they're not focusing on the idea of becoming more holy. They're focusing on the fact of just accepting what. We're sinners and we're gonna fall and everyone just needs to accept that, all right.

33:53 Many Christian communities respond to the ongoing reality of sin by encouraging mutual accountability and support through small groups, confession partners, or discipleship relationships. This approach emphasizes communal growth and transparency in dealing with sin. This is kind of what the small groups were supposed to be when they first were created. Right, the idea was of a small group was for what purpose? You have four or five people, six people? Small group? And then what could everyone do in that small group? They could be open and honest? But can anyone be open and honest? I mean, can you really be open? Can you imagine a small group your husband and wife, small group, there's four or five people, and the husband's like, I'm addicted to pornography.

34:41 Is that fair to the wife? No, it's not right. Can the wife say, well, he is gonna even stay in the small group? Right? Okay, we know a church is not. It's not right. That's why I love the Catholic eye to have a confession booth that he's bound. He has to keep it, he knows, but he doesn't go anywhere else. I love the sacredness of that. I love that because you can go in there and say whatever you say, Look, I was this this The priest may be like, whoa, this place is one messed up place, but at least you have a place to go. We don't.

35:22 Even though we're supposed to confess our sins one to another. You really can't in the church because you know it's gonna get out. But in a small group you really can. Can The wife sit there and go, well, we've been married for ten years and I spend a lot of time wishing and thinking about my ex boyfriend, and I really miss what I had with him, and I kind of I regret now that I'm married. Is that fair to say to the now? So what does that mean? That you really can't be what? Nobody can truly be transparent? Nobody's gonna let us on the inside out. So some guys like, hey, we're in this small group and well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Robert, but i've been having thoughts about your wife. That's not going to work in a small group it's just not ladies and gentlemen.

36:12 If the truth came out, everybody would be like, I gotta go find a new small. Group, right, But wherever you go you're bringing You've got. Dirt in you that you don't want anybody that everyone does. Even if it's never. What, even if it's not manifested, it's there. The thing is, can you truly admit it? The only place we can truly admit it is where to God. That's really the only other than if you have a confession a confession booth. But even there, what do you all you're doing is confessing it. What is still going to be the reality? It's still going to be there. So nobody really has I understand small groups was supposed to wait to be to try to fix it, but you know how uncomfortable that you can't What can you really say? What can you really say? Everybody has the vision that that's the way it's going to be, But inevitably, what do you do? Everyone shows up and talks about they may mention a few things, but everyone's got to play it close to the vest and be careful because you can't just be.

37:18 You just can't be. You can't function that way, the husbands and wives probably can't even can truly confess, can they, Because in some cases you're just going to cause more pain and suffering than being a Some people are so overcome with guilt they got to confess to everyone, right, and then I've talked about it on the podcast. There's a actual psychological diagnosis that makes some people like just and I think Luther had it just They are constantly and guilt and they constantly have to confess. They got to confess to somebody, they have to. Well, in some cases, the constant confession of doesn't really accomplish much, does it. In some cases it's more for your own sake, no matter who it may hurt. Some cases it just hurts more than it helps, right, because nobody can truly be honest, which which then demonstrates what what does that demonstrate?

38:15 That sin still remains, The sin still remains, see and that be goes. It gets almost the truth to go to just go home today and talk to Christians who go to other churches. They're gonna tell you, no, you've been transform You're new, You're you're a new creature, the oldest God. You have a new heart, you have a new everything. Well, if everything is new, then where is sin coming from? Can you point they can't point it out? Yeah, it's always some if Netflix is the problem. Okay, those are the views, all right, So what are they again? Number one progressive sanctification. That sounds good until you start asking questions. Right, and you start asking questions, it falls apart.

38:59 Number two, original sin. Now, I love original sin from this perspective. I love original sin if you maintain that we still have the original sin nature even after conversion. That's where most churches, many churches who believe in original sin, they won't acknowledge that part of it. I believe, like I'm going to argue that reality would prove that we still have a sin nature? What would prove that? In your mind? What would prove that we still have a sin nature? The fact that we cannot stop sinning. Remember, to me, the greatest proof of Christianity's truthfulness.

39:48 Is that men, human beings that we believe inspired by God, would write a Bible that has law that they can't keep. Who does that? If you put a bunch of teenagers together and said make up some rules, would they make up rules that they can't keep? No? No, I would you. No. So, the fact that humans wrote a Bible that contains a morality that they cannot keep immediately tells me that has to come from God, because.

40:29 No man would do that. Right, Every law that they wrote condemn them. You don't write down laws that condemn you, right, you don't do that, correct. So but the fact that it still condemns us proves. That there's still something wrong in us. So I believe the original sin is. I think that's a key to the salution. I think you've got to start right there. We still have a sin nature. And how do we know we still have a sin nature? We still sin? Can you keep the law? Now? Getting out?

41:10 Listen, every church, almost every church in Abaline would say that you can't. All your Christian friends would say that you can't. They're absolutely out of their minds. Right, just when you get home, just talk to some of your Christian friends and say, can we obey the law of God? And if they say yes, then just ask them where they buy their crack okay, because they're obviously smoking it. Okay, because that because something's wrong. They're delusional. You can't do it. Now. The minute they say you can't, well, then gives where they've walked themselves into. Well, if you can't, then the Christian life is a life of we're all in a perpetual state of and by definition we would be then cardinal and fleshley. Well, they can't acknowledge that we're carne on flesh because their lordship influence would say you can't be carnal and fleshly because if your cardinal and fleshley, that would prove you're not saved. But if you're in a perpetual state of sin, would that by definition not be cardinal fleshley because you're then what are you controlled by?

42:15 This is sin? You're controlled by the flesh. Right. That's why my interpretation of Romans one eighteen, which would get me eighteen and fallen, would get me fired in every church, I think, is the only thing that makes sense because in that passage it says God gave them over. We've all been given over and we're not and we're and that's the reality even as a believer. That's why what sins can a Christian commit? Any sin? All right? I want to hear what sins can a Christian commit? Any sin? Any can a Christian commit homosexuality? Well, see, now you realize no other church Okay, you do realize that you would be kicked out of any church in Albileen for saying that, Yeah, you can be kicked out of your friend group. Can a Christian be Can a Christian practice homosexuality?

43:15 We can? Can a heterosexual be a Christian and commit lust, adultery or fornication? That they'll make excuses for that. I mean that they will even go so far to say, and this is true, and most of you evangelicalism, if you struggle with same sex attraction, you cannot be a Christian, which is the most insane thing I've ever heard in my life. That's ridiculous. That would be like saying that I can't ever struggle with lust. That's that's that's insane.

43:55 That's how messed up Christianity has gotten. And to hold to any. Of that, you have to believe in the completer radication of the old nature. But to believe in the complete eradication of the old nature would then make. It what Then perfection should be expected. But if I can't be perfected, if I'm not perfect, then that. Means I'm still a sinner. If I'm still a sinner, then I can commit what kind of sin? Any sin? Any sin? You just realize we just crossed the line. You just realized, like there's no going back for us to say that we I wouldn't be accepted in any church. But I'm sorry, I've been in too many churches. Have you been in churches?

44:44 What does everyone do in those churches? Sin? And what do I have done in every church I've ever been in? Sin? What do I have done as a pastor? Sin? Be shocked? But you have as well. So there's the doctrine of original sin. I believe that there's a lot of key there. The Wesleyan and Holiness movement just makes no sense. You can be perfect, but yet you're not really. Perfect. That makes no. Sense, right the Catholic view, At least I admire the Catholics, right, What do I admire the Catholics? They're honest, right, They're like, Hey, there's some sins we're gonna put over here as venial, right, but there's the mortal ones. Yet we're gonna have an entire system that says that these things will help you, right, And we know you're going to mess up, so you need what confession and penance so that you can be restored.

45:41 At least they acknowledge it. You got to admire that, right, Okay, maybe you don't. I admire that. That's at least Hey, you guys get it right, right. Legalism and moralism, we've all been in legalism and moralism, all of us have been in it. Well, how much of our Christian lives have we spent say I'm gonna stop doing this, and I'm not gonna do this, I'm gonna try to do this, I'm not gonna do this, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm not gonna do this, and I'm not gonna do this and right, because we perceived that everything that we can do externally would somehow make us guilty. If I watch a movie that has a sin in it, I'm somehow guilty of said sin, or it will make me sin. So then we're like, we're not gonna We've all been there, and we probably at times while we were in it, probably thought that we were what we probably thought we were doing really good, and probably became judgmental in condemning other people. I know I did, right, I bought into that legalist but I would have told you I'm not a legalist, even though it was very legalistic, and what would have been my view that basically that the inward nature had changed.

46:49 Trying to convince myself. Now we looked at the grace centered approaches, the grace centered approaches. There's a lot of truth to the gray centered approaches. Right, because. At some point you got to throw up your hands and just say what, we can't do it. We just have to admit that, right, we can never do it. We're in a perpetual state of sin. I know Christians don't want to admit that, but it's true, all right. The mystical and spiritual kind. Of idea, I kinda I like a little bit of that, right, I like a little bit of that thrown in. I can see that and then ask the view about eschatology and being resolved in the future. I can agree somewhat with that, and the pastoral approach. We've talked a little bit about that, all right. So I wanted to get to other things, but we will stop here. So what do we take from all of this, Well, let's go down with our oar. I've repeated this so many times in the podcast this last week. I'm just going to repeat it again.

47:52 Let's just go ahead and write down to fundamentals. Are you ready? Number one? We cannot keep the law. We cannot keep God's law. We cannot keep God's law. We cannot. I know that goes against everything. Maybe you've ever been taught you cannot keep God's law? How quickly can I prove that? Quickly? Right? All I gotta do is just give you, like on one command, right, be holy as God is holy? Can you do that? All right? All right? So number one, we cannot keep God's law. Number two? What does that mean? We're in a perpetual state of sin. We are in a perpetual state of sin. Twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. I'm a sinner and I cannot stop.

48:42 I cannot. I just I can't stop it. I can't keep God's law. Number perpetual state of sin. Number three. This sinfulness and this inability must arise from something, right, The inability to keep God's law and this never ever present reality of sin has to arise from somewhere. Can everyone agree it has to come from somewhere? Correct? Yes? Number four? This would seem to indicate that we still have what a sinful nature we are still corrupted on the inside.

49:33 Let's go through these again. What was number one? We cannot keep the law? What was number two? We're in a perpetual state of sin. Number three? This sin must arise from hope. This inability must arise from somewhere. Number four. This would seem to indicate that we still have a corrupt nature, We still have a sinful heart. Do you want number five? It's going to be uncomfortable. The God who could fix all of this has chosen not to fix it in this life. Does anyone like that one?

50:20 But I mean, come on, is that not honest? I mean, I know Christians will say, no, we have the Holy Spirit and he's empowering us to do it. If he's empowering us to do it, then we should be able to do it. But they have to admit that it's not going to happen. So then what power? How do you define power? If you're going to say God has given me the power to be holy, but I can never be holy, then that means his power it can't give me the holiness. So that is either a problem with his power or you have to say the problem is with me. But if he's the one fixing me shouldn't. Then they say that doesn't explain it, right? So what does that leave us with? What was number one? We cannot keep the law? Number two, perpetual status stand number three, It must arise from somewhere.

51:08 Number four. This would seem to indicate have a say nature Number five. The God who wants us to be holy clearly doesn't is not doing anything to make us holy because we would be so. Then what does this leave us? Obviously, somehow in God's purpose, sin is a part of his purpose. In some ways? Is that really? I know that sounds radical, but is it really radical? Even if we go with a very strict conservative time measurement, the fall took place how many years ago? If we go with a really strict time, say six years, seven thousand, some may push it to ten, some may push it to thirteen thousand.

52:04 So let's just say ten thousand. For ten thousand years, sin has been on this birth and God has done nothing in ten thousand years to get rid of it. All right, He's had ten thousand years to do something with it. He could have gotten rid of it, how quickly instantaneous we could all are, all of. Our sinful natures could be what wrong? Christians believe our sinful nature has been eradicated, which only compounds the problem because if all of our sinful natures have been eradicated, then we should be perfect. And most of your Christian friends will say that you now have the ability to keep the law. It's preached in sermon after sermon. Now, as a Christian you can say noicein and yes to God. Well, if I can say noticein and yes to God, then what should be expected of me?

52:50 Perfection? But in those churches they. Don't really live that out, do they, Because if perfection is canna be achieved, who should how many people should be church disciplined? They should be. Throwing people out left and right, right, Hey, you can be perfect, you can be perfect. So then everyone has to pretend that they're perfect, even though everyone knows that they're not, which only leads to self righteousness and people living alive because no one can be honest right. Nobody can walk into the church and say, what has really happened this week? So you have to pretend until you're caught, and then when you're caught, everyone does what. My goodness, horrible, I can believe that's going happen. Why because it's not to sin you would commit.

53:32 Well, I'm sorry, next time sending your list and I'll get yours into. Now you say, well, what do we do with I don't know what we do with that, But it's the only thing that makes any sense, right, somehow this is a part of the reality. God has chosen to operate in a reality where we are saying and are declared to be holy, but we are not made holy. Now I know, inevitably, what is the typical thing taught in churches, The God who saved you loves you so much to allow you to stay sinful. Well, that's that's just trash of it, because if that was the case, we would not be sinful.

54:26 Now, am I excusing sin? Now? I'm still calling it sin? Right, I know it's sin. Should we feel guilty about it? Yes, But at the same time you can feel guilty, guilty, guilty, and if you're not it will turn into a performance based system. So what we'll do, you'll focus on the sins that you don't have any problems with and feel like, look, I'm victorious. Well, of course you didn't struggle with those in the first place. I always couldn't stand when people are well, I don't do this like it would be like me bragging to you that I don't drink. If I was an atheist, would I drink? No, it has nothing to do with Christianity. Why because I just know alcohol impairs everything and I've got enough problems. I don't need alcohol to help me out right. That's only gonna cost me. I want my life. I've even told teenagers in this church before, if I've had counseled them, Hey, look, man, even if you reject Christianity, don't do these things so you can have the best life you can have now.

55:26 Because this is the only life you're gonna have. So don't ruin it with alcohol and drugs, because that only is going to ruin it. Get the most out of it. This is all you got. Get the most out of it. Alcohol and drugs inevitably hinders it. It may help it for a short period of time, but long term impact, it's not going to help you. So I can't rag that I don't drink. There's nothing to do with my Christianity. But guess what if I was looking at it from a moralistic approach, I would pat myself on the back and say look at me, look at how God has changed me. Give me a break. I can talk about my drug use before I was saved and after I got saved. But guess what, I obviously had no addiction. I could sit there and say, well, good transform me. I just stopped, because there's been plenty of people who have become Christians who still struggle with addictions. Right, he said, come on, Christianity is not the magic cure for addiction, even though.

56:20 It's sent that way. But there's many churches that have abdiction programs because clearly Christianity didn't just magically what transform somebody? I said, it's nonsense, right, It's just ridiculous. If Christianity really did all the stuff that people claim that it did, we would be there'd be no divorces, there would be no sin in the church. And of course unless your lordship, and then what do you explain it to none of the people are saved or Church of Christ would say they lost their salvation and. That none of that works. Somehow sin is a part of the plan. I don't know why. Will God eradicate the sin. Eventually? In the meantime, what's our hope? Lot of life lived in victory over sin. It's a life of grace relying on christ righteousness in the.

57:09 Midst of sin. Now that's the and you know what proves my point all of those different systems, that's just a scratch of the surface of all the different ways Christianity has tried to address it. You know why there's been so many systems to address it because every system has to acknowledge what. We still sin? All right, what kind of sin can a Christian commit? And he said, right, I'm gonna say, can a Christian commit the sin of homosexuality? Can a Christian struggle with same sex attraction?

57:54 Yes? Well, that gets you kicked out of almost every church. Absolutely. And what ticks me off is while they're sitting in there, pointing of them, saying you can't be a Christian and do that, they can sit there and live in their sin as if their sin is somehow okay. That's what when you don't have this approach, right, it creates this self righteous, phariseical nonsense, and it's and it's I can't stand it. It's arrogant, it's prideful, and you just won't admit what you are. But sooner or later, almost inevitably, what happens.

58:35 You either have to live a life of self denial or sometimes the curtain falls down and everybody sees what's behind it, and then everybody's like WHOA. In many cases, what do they do? They they just kind of walk away from Christianity, and it's like, you shouldn't walk away from Christianity. You should come running back to Christianity to tell everyone, Hey, guys, I had my theology was wrong, and guess what, I am a sinner and I've been a sinner. I've just been pretending not to be my entire Christian life and guess what. I've been pretending that my entire Christian life myself. And guess what, I am a sinner. So what's my hope?

59:19 Imputed righteousness, imputed, imputed, imputed, imputed, imputed, imputed right. I listened to a sermon this week where they prefer to God places he puts his imputed righteousness inside of us, And I'm like, what is That's not imputed righteousness? He doesn't put imputed righteousness in us. Imputed righteousness is just I'm declared to be that which I'm not. Like, that's a complete misunderstanding of it. Christians just can't accept the fact that we're still always, still sin and Christians can't accept the fact that in reality, in practice, we're not better than other people. Oh. I can find other people that I am better then only when I look at certain sins. But if I put sins in certain categories, I still commit similar sins, right, And that's what nobody wants to admit. All right, let's bury, Lord, got we come before you this afternoon. As we ended the first hour, we'll end the second hour. Everyone in this room is a sinner. One in this room will continue to sin.

1:00:17 They will send this afternoon, they will send tonight, They will sin all next week, and so will I. Everyone in this room is a sinner, and our hope is not and stop sinning. Our hope is in your son, who did not sin, who died for our sin, and by faith, his perfection. Is imputed to my account. I'm a sinner, yet I'm declared to be justified and a saint in your sight. Lord. I will not understand, I will never truly understand how this all works out. But I am grateful that I can trust in your Son's righteousness. And it's in his name we pray, and God's people said