Christianity and Pornography Pt 2

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone. It is Friday, April the eleventh, twenty twenty five. It is currently one two pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Well. In our last episode, we started having a very important conversation about Christianity, and I guess we can say Christianity and pornography, but we're really not talking about pornography. I mean, I know that's kind of like the starting point because of some audio that we're reviewing, but we're really talking about something much deeper. I don't know if the people listening caught on to that. Yes, there there, we're reviewing audio on a program where they're talking about Christians and pornography. But I'm really trying to get you to consider something much broader, much deeper, much more important, and that is how Christianity at large deals with so many different issues. I did a program trying to demonstrate that when Christians and churches talk about the subject of fear, they approach it, I believe in a completely incorrect way because they approach it from a very law based way, and I believe that is incorrect. So ultimately, when Christians talk about the culture,

1:32 talk about sin, talk about any problem, when they talk about how messed up society is, their solution is always law, law, law, law, and I believe that is philologically flawed. I think at its very foundation that approach is not philologically sound. It is damaging, it is hurtful, it is meaningless, it is useless. And here's the fundamental principle, right, here's the foundational principle. Law does not the law of God is not designed to fix these problems. The law of God is there to expose these problems, to declare that these problems are sin, but it does not offer the solution. But yet the Church constantly says, oh, here's the problem, do this, do this, don't do this, do this, don't do this, do this, and thinking it's going to fix the problem. Two thousand years of church history, we've not fixed one problem that we yell and scream about because our solution is fraudulent.

2:39 It is completely wrong. And if you don't believe me, it's Friday, and I tell people to go to church every Sunday and do something nobody ever listens to me, but go to church Sunday. Have four or five quote unquote societal problems that you want to talk about. You can talk about pornography, you could talk about homosexuality, you could talk about transgenderism, you could talk about you just name four or five things and say what do you believe is the solution? And almost inevitably it's going to be, well, people should do this, or don't do this, or they should just stop it, or or that will be like pass laws that will I don't know, kill the people. Who knows what your church is going to come up with, But almost inevitably it's going to be a law based perspective.

3:22 And I believe that is fraudulent. So we're going to return to this discussion and we're really really going to dig in and hopefully this is going to be beneficial. Just to remind everyone, this is kind of a w I mean, that's all of our My programs always really began after I've been on a wine, a long and winding road if I can speak correctly to where how I get somewhere, And I always like to take people back to kind of like how I ended up here. So It all kind of started with a sort of The Lord Newspaper, the February twenty first, twenty twenty five issue of the sort of The Lord Newspaper, because they have an article why is society such a mess? Why is society such a mess? And I was trying to I looked at what they said is the reason. I think it's disturbing. I think it's messed up. I'm like, well, I need to address this. So I started working on a program about this. We were also we've had this discussion about how the church handles fear. And then I received an email about a program that you can listen to.

4:25 It's available on demand on the Sermon Audio app, and I was like, oh boy, what is this now. The program is called the Tech No Sin Challenge, the Tech No tehn O, the Tech No Sin Challenge, the Tech No Sin Challenge. Obviously, this is a challenge for you to not sin anymore utilizing technology, the Tech No Sin Challenge. So I told everyone to go listen to it and download it. But I got this email and I'm like, oh, so what is this about. Well, I can tell almost immediately it's about prono graphy, or at least that's a major issue here, and it's about us not sinning. And I bet you it's all law based. So I'm like, okay, well, this kind of goes to the why society is such a mess, how Christians handle fear. This is just another part of this ongoing discussion. So let's dig in. So we digged in and just to kind of give you a kind of a basic overview, the program the Techno Sin Challenge, aired by VC Why America or cross Talk is the name of the program. You can look for cross Talk on the Sermonadio app, subscribe to them. You can listen to VC Why America Radio on the Sermonadio app, and you should subscribe, and you should listen to them because that constantly are talking about what things are going on and the culture. I just think that their solutions are always fraudulent or wrong because I believe they handle it from a law based perspective. And we'll talk more

5:55 about this, all right. So the program focuses on the moral dangers of technology, specially pornography and digital addiction. They do this through the lens of a conservative evangelical worldview. And I'm gonna make it very clear when it comes to a conservative evangelical worldview. I am not an agreement with a conservative evangelical worldview because I believe a conservative evangelical worldview in many cases is still logically flawed. Because it does we should not approach things from a conservative evangelical worldview. We have to approach things from a philologically sound worldview, which I think is the key element is a proper understanding of law and Gospel. This is why I find myself in conflict with most of Christianity, because most of most Christianity, most of Christianity, has this very conservative evangelical worldview, and I just reject it. I reject it completely. No, I'm not playing that game because it's still logically flawed. Gary Becker, director of technosin dot RG That's tech TEH non o Sin All Run Together. Technosin dot org shares his mission on this program to combat the spiritual and moral dangers of modern technology through evangelistic tools such as a sticker based Techno Sin challenge and

7:29 custom gospel tracks. The broadcast includes testimonies from listeners who suffered from pornography addiction, and emphasizes spiritual purity and holiness through obedience to scripture and the work of the Holy Spirit. So it's very law based. And let me just make this very clear. This is one of I don't even know how many ministries are out there to combat the sin of pornography. And there's ministries to combat this sin. And there's ministries to combat this sin and this sin and this sin and this sin and this sin. And there's books and there's conferences, and there's different ministries to help you try to combat certain sins. And I just want to say, Christians have to acknowledge the existence of all of these ministries and all of these books and all of this material to help you combat sin. You have to admit that because it's just the fact that they exist. But the existence of all of these ministries should one hundred percent tell you something that you may not want to admit, but you have to admit it. Listen.

8:37 Christianity over and over teaches this idea that when you became a Christian, Boom, you were set free from the bondage of sin. You can now say yes to God and notice sin, Boom, you were transformed and you are a new creature and old things are passed away and all things have become new practically, that you now have the power of God inside of you to give you strength to overcome sin. You've been freed from sin. You're a new creature. The old is gone, you now have power. And Christians teach that constantly. But while they teach that, there's the existence of all of these ministries and trying to help you overcome this sin and this sin, and here's a Christian book and how to overcome this, and here's a Christian book and how to stop this, and a Christian book to do this, and there's this ministry and this small group and this and wait, wait, wait, wait.

9:27 The contradiction there is so loud that every Christians should raise their hand and go wait a minute. I think you guys need to get your story straight. Because if I'm truly a new creature, the old is gone, and I now have the power of God living in me, and I'm now free from the bondage of sin, and I can now say yes to God and no to sin, then I don't need all of these ministries. I don't need all of these tricks. I don't need all of these self help books. I don't need this group or this group. I don't need anything, because I've been completely transformed and set free. So which is it? Have I been transformed and said free or I've got to have fifteen different books, fifteen different ideas. I gotta have a list, I got to go to this group, I got to do this, and I gotta do this to overcome the sin.

10:09 Either I'm free and have power or I'm still in the bondage of sin and I got to use every self help trick known demand to overcome it. Can someone tell me what the truth is? Because christ Christians live in the midst of this contradiction and they can't even see the contradiction. So which is it? Do I need a sticker on my phone? Do I need an accountability partner? Do I need a filter? Or I have the power of God in me and I can stop sinning? Which is it? Christians can't seem to make up their minds. So that's what the program is about, all right, That's what the programming about. In the program, they offer some very important statistics, all right. So here is a list of every pornography related statistic or quantified claim the cross Talk that's found in the cross Talk program. Right. Because I gave the I took the transcript, give it to AI said, pull all of the statistics out here we go.

11:15 Number one porn viewership per second. This comes from the cross Talk program. All right, every second, over thirty thousand people are watching pornography on the internet. Every second, over thirty thousand people are watching pornography on the Internet. This is used to establish the overwhelming scope of porn consumption. So all these people are watching porn. One out of three porn viewers is a woman. Counters the stereotype that porn is only a mal problem, so men are watching it, women are watching it. Christian Porn News, sixty four percent of Christian men and fifteen percent of Christian women said they watch porn at least once a month, sixty four percent. Now, what typically happens when you give the statistic is Christians will say, well, they're not really Christians. They're not really Christians because if they're Christians, they wouldn't look at porn.

12:09 So now, if you're a Christian, you don't look at porn. If you're a Christian, I guess you don't lust. I guess if you're a Christian you don't gossip. Maybe we just should just say if you sin, you're not a Christian, and then we can just eliminate, close down all churches because there's no Christians that exist, since we all continually live in sin. But wait a minute. If sixty four percent of Christian men are looking at porn at least once a month, hmm, wait a minute. I thought we were freed from the power of sin. I thought we've been set free. Wait, so, which is it? Well, obviously these statistics have to have some truth to it, considering there is Christian ministry after Christian ministry after Christian ministry trying to help Christians stop looking at porn. Well, why do we need any help looking at porn? If we're supposedly set free and a new creature. Can Christians get their story straight? And it doesn't appear that they can.

12:59 They use this to argue that pornography is not just a secular issue, it is a widespread problem in the church. Wait a minute, porn is a widespread problem in the church. How can this be? Because we're new creatures, old things are passed away, all things that become new. Does anyone not get tired of this talking out of both sides of our mouths? Within the church? More people. This is another statistic. More people are watching pornography than are using Amazon, Twitter, and Netflix combined. All right, over a billion hours of pornography are watched every year. Over a billion hours of pornography are watched every year. So it gives you all of these statistics and all the problems. Now here's what we did in the last program. Are you ready? I made this very clear, and I'm gonna repeat some of this.

13:55 But it's okay, or at least I think it's okay. You'll I'll probably get some YouTube comment he's too repetitive. But I'm going to repeat this since ninety nine percent of churches won't teach it, let me make it. Here's the foundational principle. The law of God is not designed to fix this problem. The law of God is not there to fix the porn problem. It's not to help you overcome porn. It's not there to stop you from overcoming porn or stop you from using it. The law is not designed to fix that. So let me go through some basic things that we repeated that I stated in the last one. I'm going to repeat it now you're ready. The law does not stop sin. First, in the American Church. There's a misunderstanding of God's law. The common assumption is if we give people rules, we give people the law of God. If we give people the commands, they will stop sinning. But that is not the case.

14:49 The law reveals sin, it cannot, it will not, and it does not remove sin. The laws the's purpose is not moral reform. The purpose of God's Law is revelation, not behavioral modification. It is revelation. It is not reformation. It is to reveal something. It does not reform. It does not clean, It does not fix anything. Romans three point twenty. Through the law comes the knowledge of sin. The law is mirror. It is not a soap. It was given to show sin. It does not empower righteousness.

15:35 It diagnoses the problem. It does not heal the problem. Romans seven seven. If I had not, if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. Paul uses the example of coveting in this section. He didn't know what it was until the law said do not covet. But once he knew it, it didn't help him stop coveting. It only made it worse. The law actually prove folk sin Roman seven to eight. But sin seizing an opportunity through the commandment produced in me all kinds of coveteousness, all kinds of inordinance desires, Romans seven eleven. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment deceived me, and through it it killed me. The commandment becomes a tool for sin to use against us. The law becomes the occasion for rebellion, not because the law is evil, but because we are Romans five point twenty. Now the law came in to increase the trespass. The law actually multiplies sin, not because it is flawed, but because sinful people react to it in rebellion. One Corinthians fifteen. The power of sin is the law. This is a shocking phrase.

16:57 The law, which is holy and good, becomes the very thing that sin uses to gain strength. Galatians three twenty one. If a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. The law does not give life. The law does not help you and overcoming sin. It does not produce righteousness. The law reveals, it condemns, it shows you, and it provokes sin. It brings in more sin, but it doesn't fix the problem. The law cannot transform the heart. So any ministry that gives you law law, law, law, law is literally ignoring the actual biblical teaching of God's law. It is to reveal to you your sin is. It will provoke sin, it will incite sin, it will do everything. It will kill you. It brings about death, it brings about condemnation, It brings about shame, it brings about humiliation. But the law can be your schoolmaster and grab you and drag you to the foot of the cross. Then you look to the cross. There is the one who obeyed the law perfectly for you. He paid for your sin because you cannot keep the law. He washes away your sin as far as the east is from the west, and by putting your faith in him, his obedience is imputed to your account. So now you stand before God perfectly obedient to God's law in your position, while in your

18:29 practice you never will obey the law because the law demands perfection, and you will never be perfect. So you are in a perpetual state of disobedience to God's law. That's Christianity. Nobody wants to admit that. The Church ignores that, and the Church continues to give you solutions that deny that very reality. So what we're going to do and this one, so we've already established that the law does not fix the problem. I've clearly tried to establish that all of these ministries trying to help you overcome these sins simply prove that all the things Christians say about us is not true. Because if we were really truly transformed and all of these things, we wouldn't need these ministries.

19:12 And we'll talk about that in greater detail. The goal now is what we're going to do is we're going to listen to each just a little bit more of this program, all right. Again, this is called the Techno Sin Challenge from Crosstalk. You can listen to it on the sermon audio app. I challenge you to download it. We're going to listen to a little bit more of their approach, and we're only using their approach, not so much to be critical of their approach, because their approach is just like every other church's approach. We're using us to talk about the deeper issue. But I'm going to really focus in here because when the church talks about porn or sexual sin, I think it misses the entire issue completely. I think the church is completely blind to the real issue at hand. I don't think it's ever going to actually deal with it. So I'm going to try to get to this. One of the things you're going to to hear as I continue through this episode, you're going to hear some of my conversation. Not hear it, I'm going to read it to you. My back and forth with artificial intelligence on this subject. Artificial Intelligence obviously had a lot of criticism and the way this program approaches the subject. But then ME and A and I, me and AI started going back and forth about, well, I think the problem is even deeper. I think there's an issue that nobody in the church wants to even deal with. And AI said, well, you're right, nobody in Christianity wants to touch this subject. But if we're going to be fair and honest, we have to. So I'm going to try to get to that. We'll see how far we can get. We have a lot to cover.

20:39 Here we go. That's about a twenty minute not just a review. There's a lot of extra things thrown into too, all of that, but here we go. I don't know how much we're going to review. I'm just trying to give you out basic sense of what they are offering right here we go. So I'd like you to just share your passion, Gary, tell us about your ministry, how is God underway and where you're going with it? Because you've got you've got a burden on your heart, that burden. I have a mission and the mission is simple and it sounds a little magnanimous, but I just want to g rate the Internet. And that sounds kind of crazy, but it's a G with two other letters, g O D rated Internet that every click, every choice, every screen choice would be pleasing to God from the heart that's filled with the Holy Spirit and controlled by the scriptures and God's God's plans.

21:36 Okay, so he wants to god rate the Internet so that every clique will be pleasing to God with a heart that is filled with the Holy Spirit and controlled by scripture. Well, if the heart is filled with the Holy Spirit and it's empowering, guiding and directing, and if my heart is controlled by the scriptures, then guess what. You don't need to god rate the Internet because I'm not going to have any problems, I'm not going to eat stickers. I don't need your ministry. I should just be good to go right. So, which is it am I doing? Am I? Am I filled with the Holy Spirit that's doing something for me, empowering me, giving me strength? And is my heart now controlled by scripture? Because if my heart is controlled by scripture and I'm filled with the Holy Spirit, then I don't need your ministry because I'm not going to sin. So which is it? And Christians, that's this double speak that just drives me crazy. On one hand, it sounds like ton ton to I'm superman.

22:30 I have power of the power of the omnipotent God inside of me. He's giving me strength. I've got the scriptures and they will keep me from sin and this and this and this and the and. But at the same time, it's like, man, I'm I'm in such a bad shape that I need a ministry that will help me how to figure out how to God rate the Internet? So and I need a sticker, and I need this and any accountability and I need this and wi whoa, whoa, woah wait wait, so God is not enough to get me past the porn problem. This just becomes so mad. Let's listen to a little bit more. For our life and for our purity and for our holiness. And so this idea of grating the Internet is that if no one ever clicked on a bad site, they would dry up for lack of attention, instead of being this multi trillion dollar business that you spoke of in the introduction today.

23:24 Now that is true. If no one was clicking on all of these things, they wouldn't exist. They exist. Their existence doesn't create the demand. The demand is the reason they exist. Why is there such a demand for pornography. Why is there such a demand for pornography? Why? Why? Why? What's the issue? There's something deeper going on here. What's the issue? Now? So, on the way the Church describes Christians, there should be no demand amongst Christians for it because we should be completely content with God, right, I mean, if you've got God, you've got all you need. You should be content. You should desire nothing. All you should care about is loving God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. You should put no other gods before Him.

24:18 You should be completely content you. I mean, you're a new creature, the oldest passed away. You're filled with the Holy Spirit. It should be you that Christians shouldn't desire literally anything other than scripture in God, because we don't need anything else, but for some weird reason, we clearly need this, and we want this, and we desire this, and we need this and we want this, and we sin, and we sin and we sin. So obviously the reality of all the sin and Christianity seems to explain to me that all the claims made about Christians are fraudulent that the church continues to sell. So I don't know. Maybe the issue here is not pornography. Maybe is the issue is the church needs to get its story straight because they can't make up their mind.

25:01 And so this is this is my heartbeat. The big goal, the small goal, is to just help one kid make one less bad click on that internet. And it's worth all the effort that I've taken and more to see one of these little ones not be offended because their angles are before there are our heavenly father, and I don't want to please my heavenly father. Well there are many who. So the issue is we don't want these kids to make a wrong click. Let me try to help you theologically. Whether they make the click, whether they don't make the click, that little innocent child isn't innocent because they're born a sinner.

25:45 They are depraved. The corruption is not brought into the kid from outside. The corruption exists inside the kid. The kid is already corrupt. I don't even understand. Christianity just says the most ridiculous thing like this is straight up, it's almost it's almost, you know, human psychology, that we're all basically born good and that what happens is from the outside. Christianity is a radically different No, no, it's not. The problem doesn't start from the external. It's the internal. It's from the heart that comes lust. It's from the heart that comes to pravity, adultery, fornication, murder, bitterness, and it's inside of us. We do not become sinners because we sin. We sin because of what we are and what are we? What are we sinners? When do we become sinners? At conception? We are conceived with a sinful, depraved nature. The kid is not corrupted by what comes outside.

26:47 The kid is born corrupted. I don't get it is so weird that when my problem with Christianity is not because I reject biblical theology. My problem with Christianity is because I'm trying to hold the Biblical theology, and it's a weird place to be holding to biblical theology, but finding yourself at odds with the very church that claims to be teaching biblical theology. That is a bizarre place to wake up one day and find yourself. But this is Pelagianism, this is this forgets semi Pelagianism. It's full blown again. Pelagius taught the idea that people that we are not born sinners, we are not depraved, we're at best morally neutral. We do not have a bent to evil.

27:36 We're not depraved, We're not we're we. In fact, Pelagias would go on and to say, you can have a perfect person. They don't even need to be saved. They can be perfect and be absolutely obey the law of God without any assistance from God, because they can do it because they're morally neutral. That's Pelagianism, full blown heresy, rejected by the early Church, but it dominates. It runs wild and American evangelicalism. Even by some who claim they are not Pelagian and that they reject it, they still will sound like it when it comes to practical issues. I think you know what I do on my phone or what I do on my tablet device. It's private, is it?

28:19 It's the most public thing imaginable for all the electronic footprints that are left and the things that can come back to haunt a person publicly, academically, occupationally, but I'm concerned about spiritually. Now that's a very practical point. Hey, what you do on the internet can come back to haunt you. Now, that's one hundred percent true. You leave a footprint. So from a purely practical standpoint, it's probably smart not to do this or this or this or this, because it could come back to get you. It could come back to get you. Academically, some school could find it, your friends could find it. Socially for your church standing, You're right, it can come back to hind So from a practical standpoint, you're told, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. But everybody knows the possible practical do you.

29:11 Have you ever noticed that people can know the practical implications of doing something wrong and still do it. I wonder why, because maybe the sinful nature is stronger and more powerful than simply knowledge about the possible negative consequences of doing something. I know, we think it's so simple. Hey, just tell a kid don't do drugs and they won't do drugs. Hey, kids don't have premotal sex and they just won't. Don't do this, don't do that, and then over it. I mean, you've been if you have kids, you've raised kids, haven't you given them the practical benefits of not doing ABC? And if you don't do these things, things are gonna go good for you. And they will still do the things even though there's negative consequences. And sometimes it makes no sense. Why are you doing this when I told you what the negative co consequences are.

30:00 Sometimes they can't even articulate why. I can tell you why, because inherently we are sinful. We don't like to be told what to do. We want to do what we want to do, and we have a tendency to move towards destruction because we have a sinful nature that goes towards destruction. I wish it could just be hey, guys, here's the twenty reasons you shouldn't do it. Oh well, okay, good, got them down, or then I'm never gonna do anything wrong. But see that has nothing to do with Christianity. That's just pure pragmatism. From a pragmatic standpoint, if you do this, this could happen. Good. Not gonna do it. I wish it was that simple now for some things. It is as simple for some people. Hey, this has a negative consequences.

30:43 I don't want to do it. You know why it's so simple because you obviously don't have any internal desire for that very specific thing. Remember, being totally depraved doesn't mean you're going to desire every sin equally. It just means you are depraved and you will be You are going to be sinful, doesn't mean you're going to be sinful in this way that way. Right. I don't need to be told all the possible negative consequences of homosexuality, like say, AIDS or this or this. I don't need to be given any practical reasons why not to be a homosexual. I don't need any practical reasons, right because I have literally no desire inside of me for that particular sin. I have none, zero Now, so it's easy I can be like, Wow, I've never been tempted by homosexuality.

31:29 I have never struggled to homosexuality. I am such a good person. Bet me on the back I'm a good Christian. I'm so godly. I've been freed from sin. Yeah, because I don't want to talk about all the other sins that I do have a desire for, think about lust four yeah, no, no, I don't want to talk about those and guess what and all those others. I can be given fifty seven practical reasons why not to do it, and still may find myself doing it because now my depravity is pulled in that direction, but it may not be pulled in that direction. H It's not that complicated. The issue is internal. It's inside of. Us, or that phrase. What we see we cannot unsee.

32:11 There is an impression, a depression and sadly made by the enemy of our soul to affect our lives. And this instrument will take take, take, it takes us down, down down. A surfing board, a surfing maybe a ski skiboard wants a hill, wants a downhill. The ideal roller skater would would just have a whole world that's downhill and surfing a lot of it is downhill. And because you watch this and because you viewed that, you know we can suggest this and suggest that, and it goes down, down, down, so easily, so quickly, and then the bottom, when you think you're at it has a trapdoor. And I've counseled, and in fact, this whole ministry was born in a prison with internet crime and me going in and doing a Bible study and hearing the stories. And that's kind of how the whole project was born.

33:10 You know. Let me make it very clear. It doesn't begin because of what we see. It begins because of what we are. We are far worse than anything we can see. You are far worse than anything you can find on the internet. You can find the most vile, disgusting thing on the internet that would be offend you, shock you. You are worse than that and your nature because your nature is totally depraved, and Christians can't ever admit this. You can look at someone else's behavior going, I just don't understand why they would do that, what would cause that? What is their problem? Why? Why? What? Because they're depraved? Well I would never do that. Well, congratulations, you would never do that. But you are still a depraved sinner. You're just as depraved. You're just as in violation of God's law because of your guilty, at one point, guilty of all of it. You're still in perpetual stat of sin.

34:02 So pat yourself on the back that you don't do that or do that. But your nature hates God. It is selfish, it is arrogant, it's narcissistic. All it cares about is itself. It uses people for its own benefit. That's what you are at your nature. That's the fundamental principle of Christianity. So I could tell you about that if you like him. Yeah, what did you hear? Well? It was a man who was not guilty of the internet crime he was accused of. He said his seventeen year old, not eighteen year old daughter sabotaged his laptop with her video garbage.

34:46 Wait, he met a man who was innocent in prison? Did you get him out? I mean, he was obviously convicted in a court of law, found guilty by a But you know that he's innocent. So you're going to tell the story if he's innocent because his sixteen or seventeen year old daughter framed him with her internet garbage? Man, did you get him out of prison? Get off the internet? Talking about your ministry, you need to have you got a team of lawyers. Have you taken this to the media, the man's innocent. Let's see if he got the man out of prison. And he was not guilty, went to federal court pleading not guilty and not taking a plea bargain. He was sure she would tell the truth. She didn't. He was buried.

35:36 He wrote me a letter from federal prison. He says, I just found out that I have stage four cancer. I will die in prison. And he said that I would have never been convicted unless it had not been for the circumstantial evidences. My laptop was not clean. Now, so I want to know the name of this man. I want to look up this case. I want to look up this case. I want to look up this case. I'm going to ask all right, okay, in okay. In the transcript, he tells the story of a man in prison.

36:22 Who is innocent. Do we know what case? What case he is referring to, and if he knows the man is innocent, what steps were taken to free the man? Right? I'm asking ai? Okay? So in the cross Talk program featuring Gary Becker that he recounts a story about a man in federal prison whom he believes to be innocent.

37:09 According to Becker, this individual is convinced based on the testimony of a single informant that received a reduced sentence. Oh wait, okay, that's a different story. There must be another story he's going to tell. H hang on, okay, I okay, I am referring to the story in the transcript. About I guess. I guess everyone he talks to in prison is innocent about the man who they claim was innocent, and he was found.

37:55 Guilty because of what because of what his daughter put on his laptop. All right, let me see if we can get a better better case here. The individual was okay, when I see all right, hang on, all right, Well, the AI is not. I can't find anything about this story. He can't find anything about the story that we're hearing because I guess just an anecdotal piece of evidence. And I guess what, I don't know. What's the point of the story.

38:40 Is the point of the story is you can be framed by your kid? What's the point of the story. I don't know. Let's see if he offers any other details. And it pricked my heart as to how you know the loose living on the eighteen year old and above side came back to bite him on a seventeen years old stepdaughter mad at him, and it put him in prison, you know, and his life was taken there in prison. Part of that birth this ministry, and part of it was birth by the sixteen grandchildren I have, all of which are at various stages of addiction as they have the pull of the screens upon their lives. And so I just want to make a dent for Jesus. And God's given me a plan and a passion to do this and to reach the loss for Christ, to take this culture that is bowing down to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ for what is needed in our hearts. Yeah.

39:40 Now, that poll that you talked about, that passion that is drawing people, that that Lord that is there, that that is just it's very very tempting. I mean, it is there to actually grab and to capture. Yeah. I heard a statistic that I don't want to believe. That's sixty percent of full time Christian workers are addicted to pornography. There, with some degree or another. Sixty percent of Christian workers are addicted to pornography. Okay, all right, now, okay, I'm sorry, I'm pausing there because Ai is talking to me all of a sudden. Okay, so AI says. No. The transcript gives no names, dates, locations, or court details. There's no way, based on the transcript alone to verify the story'll link it to any known legal case. It's anecdotal. It's anacdotal at best, presented without documentation.

40:43 No mention is made of any legal steps actually helped the man. Becker's express his personal belief in the man's innocent, but there's no indication that Becker worked with a legal team in a sense project or filed appeals. The man's death in prison is presented as final. Becker uses it to illustrate the dangers of digital comp not as a call for actual justice. Becker uses a uses it as a cautionary tell A man's life is destroyed by poor and related circumstantial evidence he didn't create. But if the man was innocent and the stepdaughter intentionally framed him, this is not a story about moral compromise. It's a story about an injustice betrayal in a broken legal system. And yet, rather than demanding reform, compassion, or advocacy, the story has hornet turned into a moral illustration for why you should cover your phone with a sticker. There is no evidence Becker took further steps to help the man beyond using the story as a motivational device. There is no case details to independently investigate or verify the man's innocence. If the story is true, it's tragic. But if the man really was innocent, the appropriate response wouldn't be stickers or slogans.

41:46 It would be legal intervention, advocacy, and public exposure of the miscarriage of justice. Why doesn't he give the name? Why doesn't he tell us what happens so that we can get justice for this man who died in prison because he was framed by a step daughter. This is the kind of nonsense that Christians do. You tell these stories and then you give no information, no evidence. Oh that okay, So sixty percent of Christian workers look at porn. Now we're right back to the original problem, right, Why is it there's so many Christian workers look at porn? Why is it? What's going on? What is it? See?

42:29 There's something deeper? Is it ever going to be addressed that? I'm sure that every time I mention that statistic. I want to say one hundred percent of people with a pulse have a problem or a potential problem. And if you don't have a pulse, you're with the Lord, if you know the Lord, and there's no more problem now pretty sure? So he tells that story, because then one hundred percent of the people with the pulse have a problem, or at least a potential problem. Why is it that one hundred percent of people with a pulse, whether Christian or non Christian, has a problem. I wonder what the problem is. I wonder what the problem is. Now. Once we can figure out what the problem is, then we can figure out the solution. So is the solution. Stickers on your phone is the solution? Smashing your phone is the solution.

43:17 Accountability Partner is a solution, a twelve step program. What is the solution? Well, the solution is what the problem is. And the problem is you have a depraved nature. And nothing fixes the depraved nature. Nothing. The law only reveals it. It doesn't fix it. Salvation doesn't fix the depraved nature because it continues to exist. That's why sixty percent of Christian workers look at porn, and probably even far more if we really, really really willing to get honest. But nobody really wants to be honest about it because you can't go to church and talk about your porn problem because you'll get thrown out of church. Because you can have fifty other problems and you're okay, but you can't have a porn problem because then you'll be branded with a scarlet letter. Christianity is incapable of dealing with these problems because we won't allow to. We won't address these problems from the theology that we claim to teach. We teach this fraudulent theology that no, no, no. When you become a Christian, everything's perfect. You become a new creature, you're freed from sin, you're set free, you're empowered by God.

44:15 You can do it well. Then nobody can do it, So why can't anybody do it well? We just keep telling everyone you can do it. At the same time, you got to have a ministry for every sin problem out there, because for some weird reason, everybody keeps committing sin. But in this world there is temptation, and everyone is a click away from disaster, and the enemy knows it. You mentioned. Everyone is a click away from disaster. Oh my goodness, you're not a click away from disaster because the disaster resides inside of you. You don't need a computer for disaster. Do I need to go through the Book of Genesis and tell you about all the sexual sin in the Book of Genesis before they had anything to click on?

45:03 Can we go through all of it? We have everything from port, we have everything from polygamy, we have rape, we have incest, we have homosexuality, We have it all right there in Genesis, before there is an Internet, before there is pornography, before there's rock and roll, before there's rap, before there's MTV, before there's dungeons and dragons, before there's anything. Because the problem started in the garden went Adam and Eve sin and they gave birth to children who were depraved, and it only took them what fifteen seconds before one is killing the other. And it didn't because of violent video games or because of Harry Potter. It happened because they were depraved.

45:52 This just being a click away. And you mentioned about everyone leaving a footprint every time they click on a site, and not only are there tracking mechanisms available, but for a believer in Jesus Christ, should we not recognize that tech God sees, and God knows what we're doing. He knows what we are watching. That's the whole point of our ministry is to really acknowledge that our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and that when we have a heart to please the Lord, we want to please him in our not so private digital world. So I have a very analog answer for a digital problem. I'd love to share it with you.

46:32 Go ahead, okay. The Spanish pastor in our church, I said, your pastor, gadget. You're always on your gadget. Please speak on gadgets, and so I did. And then he said, you're speaking at the youth rally in Spanish and English and read in Pennsylvania. I did, and he spaid, you're going to be speaking all over and I have been so far over these last eight years. The little message of seven reasons why you should say before you click was entitled Techno sin technology, Yes, then garbage and wasting time No. And so I had this passion and then I kind of juiced it up a little bit with a burden to try to illustrate what God said, if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. And so we just developed this from a sticker that has this grated icon to a explanation of the word techno sin tech yes, sin no, Jesus yes, but wasting your life no, And then this verse on it, I will set no wicked thing before mine eye. We added the word worthless thing in the newer translations. And what a combination to equate to that Hebrew word that means all that does not pertain to righteousness. If I add the word wicked and worthless together, I come up with ninety four some percent of the Internet. And I call that Internet the wwww web, the Worldwide wicked wasting time ten percent wonderful Web. And so it is wonderful. And that's the problem. It's all

48:04 mixed together. And we give this instrument into people's hands and into children's hands and think that they can navigate the difference between godliness and wickedness. And that's our problem. Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, we're going to take a quick book. Okay, so they give everyone a sticker. I guess you put on your phone and boom, you fix the problem. But the problem is deeper than that. So for the next I don't know, we're going to try to go through this relatively quick. We're going to try to go through this relatively quick. So here is what we do. All right, I was having a conversation where artificial intelligence about this program. And here's what artificial intelligence says. The entire program with Gary Becker fails to ask the most foundational and necessary philological and pastoral questions regarding the widespread problem of pornography and did especially among professing Christians. Let me break this down more clearly for you, all right, key question why the program ignores the why if so many Christians and humanity in general are watching porn? Why where does the desire come from? These are question These questions are foundational for any real diagnosis or solution, And you're right, they are completely unmasked and unanswered in this program.

49:28 Are unasked and unanswered in this program. So I had asked, isn't this missing? And AI is like, you're right, it's these are completely missing. So what was offered instead? So here's what was offered instead of any real discussion of the why emotional appeals. You can't unsee what you've seen, Well, I don't have to see anything to unsee it, because guess what the desire for it? Is inside me before I ever see it. Okay, that's it's a whole different issue, right, guilt motivation. God sees what you click on. God sees God is watching. He's got a list kids, He's checking it to see if you're naughty or nice. He's watching you. He's watching you. He's watching you. He's watching you. But you know, I think canaan Abel would have known God is watching them, and he's still killed his brother, right, Okay, I think Adam and Eve would have probably had a pretty good idea that God was what still did it, and they didn't even have a depraved nature at the time.

50:21 All right, But okay, we could go in through scripture. Everyone knows God is watching, and everyone continues this in and the Bible. I wonder why, because there's something deeper going on. External behavior fixes, stickers, phone smashing, marshmallows, stuffed in the charger port, all of these things. I guess, to just make your phone inoperable or whatever. This is the fix. This is the solution. They give you. Dramatic testimonies and fear driven antidotes like you know, stories with no actual fact to back it up, a legalistic tone. Do this, or you will destroy your marriage, you'll destroy your life, you will destroy everything. Don't do it. That's good, it's great. But there's something deeper going on. Maybe we should have asked these questions, what is the root cause of the desire to look at porn? Scripture teaches that sinful desire comes from within. Sinful desire comes from within.

51:18 Let me see here if I can find it. I could be wrong. I believe it's in Mark seven. I believe it's in Mark seven. Here we go. Jesus is speaking, all right. Jesus is speaking, And he said, Mark chapter seven, Verse twenty, that which cometh out of the man that defileth the man from within, out of the heart of man, precede evil thoughts, adultery, fornication, murder, theft, coveteousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, all of that is inside of us.

52:02 Are you ready? Evil thoughts, adultery, fornication, murder, theft, coveteousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. It's all inside of you. You don't get it inside of you because you see something you can't unsee. It's already there, it's inside of us. But nobody wants to seem to discuss this in this program. There's no acknowledgment that the heart fallen, that the heart fallen, disordered and prone to us is the true source. No real discussion of the the of our sinful nature and all of the evil desires that come from it, or the biblical well, we could get it. It doesn't really give into the biblical discussion of where desire desire arises from inside of us. That's the problem. What does it mean that chris still have sinful desires? That's not asked, Well, what does it mean that Christians still have sinful desires?

53:06 Instead of wrestling with Roman seven or Galatians five flesh versus spirit, their program skirts this tension entirely. The illusion is given that if someone really wanted to stop, they would just smash their phone or put a sticker on it. This ignores everything about the truth of who we are and that we still have a sinful nature. Okay, that I could go on there. There's a lot of other questions, all right, So the program ignores the real issue that the problem it comes from inside of us. So inside of us is the problem. So let's do this because I'm going to run out of time and I got like five hundred pages of notes. Here's what I want us to do, right, Okay, all right? Oh here, now I'm gonna get down to because this is where me and me and A and me and AI got into a very important conversation. So here's what. Here's what we've established so far in these two parts. One law will not fix the problem. Wasn't designed to fix the problem.

54:09 It was to drive us to Christ, who solved the problem for us by his obedience being accredited to my account, not by changing me or transforming me. Because if I was truly changed and transformed, then I wouldn't need all of these helps to stop sinning, because I would just stop sinning. But since no one stops sinning, then obviously we didn't that. Our issue, from the solvific point of view is I'm changed positionally, but I'm left unchanged practically, which is the reality we all know. Right, So the law is not to solution the problem, isn't what we see. The problem is an external The problem is internal. We have sinful desires. All sinful desires start from within, and they are there from our conception. We are evil ciners from our conception. That is historical Christianity. This pelagious view is ridiculous or not like some innocent people, and all the corruption comes inside of us once we see it.

55:03 That is just not biblical in any way, shape or form. But there's something deeper that this program ignores, and almost all Christians, when they talk about this, they ignore. So I asked Ai about it, and AI said, you're stepping You're stepping even deeper than most theological conversations are willing to go. And you're asking something that many Christian discussions ignore entirely. Isn't the desire for sex, sexual gratification, and sexual pleasure biological and psychological, not just moral or spiritual?

55:44 And the answer is yes. To treat pornography, use, or any misuse of sexuality as merely a spiritual issue is to ignore reality. And once you do that, your solutions become shallow and effective and even harmful. The does desire for sex is not sinful. It is literally built into creation. Before sin entered the world, sexual desire already existed, be fruitful and multiply Genesis one twenty eight. Well, how are you going to be fruitful? Multiply? How sexual pleasure, attraction, and longing. We're part of what God called very good.

56:26 The song of Songs or the Song of Solomon's celebrates physical love and longing between lovers. That's desire for union, touch, satisfaction. It's not evil, it's embodied creation. It's part of being human. The desire itself isn't sinful. It's what we do with it and how we attempt to fulfill it that becomes sinful. So when we're talking about porn addiction, we're not just talking about lust. We're talking about the misuse and misdirection of real created, powerful, biological drive that was ever meant to be turned off. Sexuality is psychological and emotional. Desire isn't just physical. It's emotional. It's psychological. It's it's psychological, it's it's intimate. Pornography offers a fantasy of being wanted without vulnerability. It provides a bit of uh. Basically, it provides a hit of dopamine and and and other endorphins and other chemicals. Literally, it releases chemicals in the body brain chemistry that basically releases brain chemistry that limics real intimacy.

57:37 It literally can give you the the the brain chemistry of intimacy without even experiencing intimacy. It allows people to feel control, power, validation, escape, all which are emotional and psychological needs. So these are these are real emotional psychological needs. There are real brain chemistry issues happening. There's something deeper than happening. So the desire for this is deep. It's not simply it's just don't do it. It's like telling people don't don't eat, don't eat, just don't eat food. There's something deeper going on. This is why people don't just look at these things because they have nothing better to do, or or they just they just have a desire.

58:25 There's something going on it. Maybe they can be looking for reasons because they're anxious, they're depressed, they're angry, they're lonely, they're insecure, they feel powerless, they feel traumatized, they're longing for connection. So they they turn to this for a lot of reasons because there's something psychological going on, and the satisfaction releases certain brain chemicals and the brain that can alleviate the feeling maybe anxious or feeling depressed, or feeling angry, or feeling lonely or feeling insecure, or feel are feeling powerless or feeling traumatized, or feel or longing for connection. Something is released. There's something deeper going on. Nobody wants to address this, and those feelings of not wanting to be anxious or depressed or angry or lonely or insecure, are powerless or feeling traumatized or longing for connection.

59:15 Those aren't sinful feelings. Those are human realities. But if we teach that every expression of sexual desire outside of marriage is simply rebellion, we shame people for having bodies, feelings, and needs. They didn't choose. You didn't choose to have these desires. You didn't choose to have these feelings. You didn't choose to have these emotions. They're a part of who you are. We've got to deal with that reality or all we're gonna do. Put a sticker on it, don't look at it, smash your phone. Be good, little boys and girls. Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. Well, first, you're giving them law. That's not even going to fix it, and on the other hand, it supposedly become a Christian resolves all of this. You shouldn't even be having any of these desires, but you're gonna have these desires because not only do you have a sinful nature, you are a human being with a body. It has these desires not only physically, not only emotionally, but psychologically. Moralizing simply moralizing desire typically damages people.

1:00:17 This is where much Christian teaching, like the Cross Talk program, goes dangerously wrong. It treats desire as always dangerous. It sees sex as a purity test. It doesn't acknowledge the beauty and power of sexuality as a gift. It offers no theology of embodiment or longing. People are then end up left shamed for being a human. They end up living in sacred They believe they are something is wrong, They're perverted for having these desires. You're wrong, You're messed up in the head. How can you have these What is wrong with you? I just don't understand why people would have these desires. I don't get it. I don't understand. Well, you may not understand, because you may have different desires, but deep down in humans, you're going to have somewhat similar desires in certain ways. So this all creates an internal war between spirit and body instead of healing the breach between them and Christ. So what's missing from the conversation as a vision that says you are a body and a soul. Your desires are real and often good.

1:01:30 Sin hijacks those desires, not because the desires are evil, but because sin disorders them. Christ doesn't just kill desire, is he? He coming to Christ It's just not going to kill the desire. It's not going to just get rid of it. And yes, this is the difficult part of Christianity. Christianity is going to call you to carry that desire and maybe unfulfilled based on your circumstances. Some people can be in a circumstance like hey, and Christianity's gonna say, sorry, you can't fulfill that desire. You just can't. You can't. The desire is there, The desire is there, and what does Christians have to offer for that? Now?

1:02:13 What Christians typically do is, well, hey, hey, God is enough. God can satisfy you. God can take care. And it amazing that the people who get the ability to fulfill the desire, they have intimacy, they have relationship, they can get physical desires met. Well, be the one like, you don't do this, and you better not do this, and you better not do this, and you better not do this. Well, and it's so great for you to be able to have everything, and you tell everyone else what they can and can't do. Can you imagine waking up and realizing, Man, I have the desire. I have the strong desire for intimacy and sexual satisfaction with someone of the same sex. Wow, okay, I didn't ask for this. Where did this come from?

1:03:00 People don't just go wake up and ask for it? Right, You didn't just wake up and ask for to desire physical needs. You are born with these needs. And you can say, well, they can't just have those desires for the same sex. They had to choose it. No, no, no, no no. We have a sinful desire. We have a sinful nature. That sinful nature can pervert all of our desires, and you don't have any control over that. Your sinful nature desires things and you don't ask for it to desire it's there. So just imagine, now here's these people. They've got this, and then the church that's banking. Well, you just don't. You can't fulfill it. You can't fulfill it. You can't fulfill it. You'll never be able to experience love, you'll never be the way you desire it. You're never gonna be able to have intimacy. Now you can try to find fulfill this desire and intimacy with someone of the opposite sex. Don't know if you ever truly be satisfied.

1:03:48 But it's not my problem. You just do it. And now for me, I get to go then fulfill all of my desires and get all of my needs bad. But I'll sit there and look down on you, and you just don't do it. It's always amazing how the church will stand on its lofty perch and look at all the other. Hey, you can't fulfill it, you can't fulfill it. No, no, no, no, no no, you don't look at that. No no, no, no no. You don't get your desire met. No no no, you don't get your desire mat You live without it. I get to live with it. I get to have my needs met. You don't get to have your needs met. Because we're godly. You're so godly. Oh yeah, you're godly because you get the needs met. How about y, how about you give up all of the ability to meet your needs and see where you end up. These needs are deep inside.

1:04:36 They're deep, they're psychological, they're emotional, they're mental. How dare you talk your big game when you got everything. This isn't a just this isn't just send nature. It's biological, it's emotional. It's part of being human. And if we don't start there, we're not telling the truth. If we aren't giving, and we aren't gonna give anybody any real hope, we're setting up in possible expectations that people should just crush their phone walk in purity without ever addressing their God given needs for intimacy, touch, pleasure, connection, and love.

1:05:21 There's a god given need for intimacy, a god given need for touch, There's a god given need for pleasure. There's a god given need for connection, there's a god given need for love. And if you get all of that, how dare you look down and everyone else who doesn't get it and just say, well, God should be enough for you. Well, then they should be enough for you. One of the deepest and most ignored theological problems with not only the program that we've been reviewing, but almost all Christian discussions around peorn impurity. The idea is that you can avoid pornography entirely and still be deep This is something that's often overlooked, is that you can avoid pornography entirely, but you can still be deeply guilty of lust, sinful desire, and inter corruption. In fact, we often go to porn because of what was already present, desire, fantasy, longing, lust.

1:06:18 Porn doesn't cause sin, it simply reveals it. And this has never dealt with, and not only this program, it's never dealt with, and the entire purity culture did not deal with this. We can look at Matthew five. You've heard that it was said you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust, with lustful intent, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew five, twenty seven through twenty eight. This statement obliterates the idea that avoiding external acts makes someone pure. You don't need porn to be guilty of lust. You don't need a smartphone. You just need a mind, a memory, a glance, a thought, and If that's true, then all the stickers and phone smashing and techno sin programs in the world can't touch the act actual sin, because the sin is internal, it is spiritual, and it is invisible. We go to porn because the sexual thoughts precede it, the desire precedes it.

1:07:11 The whole of those psychological desires for and those and what you're going to get when those chemicals are released in your brain. Intimacy, love, validation, feeling good about yourself, feeling wanted, feeling desire. You go to that because of these desires, and those desires proceed. We go to porn because the thoughts and the desires proceede the pornography. Porn is the symptom. The desire is already there. It's not just oops, I saw something. It's I wanted something, I was reaching for something. I was already dwelling on something. I was already dissatisfied. I was already longing, I was already wondering, I was already searching, thinking, needing. Sin happens before the click. So if a program tells me not to click but doesn't talk about the war inside me longing before I or touch the device, it's already failed.

1:08:04 And the unspoken lie behind these kinds of programs is if you never look at porn, you're pure. But you're not because we still have lust in the heart. We still have pride sometimes over our purity. We judge others for failing. We have unacknowledged fantasies that we won't tell anyone about. We have secret sexual imaginations sh we have bitterness, rage and greed, we have discontentment. We have lots of issues going on. You can be porn free and still be and still self righteous, lustful, dead inside, and far from God. Avoiding avoiding porn is not holiness. Avoiding porn is a wise maybe a wise boundary, but true holiness is a broken and contry at heart. It's a mind being renewed. It's a soul cleaning to Christ because you know you're unclean. It's you resting in the finished work of Jesus Christ. What this program offers is law. Don't click, don't watch, put a sticker on it, smash it if you have to. But the law can expose in it can't remove it. It can say don't lust, but it can't stop your heart from doing it. The only hope then, is the finished work of Jesus Christ and his imputed righteousness.

1:09:28 What I want you to see, law won't fix it. Law won't fix it. There's a massive contradiction in Christianity saying, in one hand, basically we shouldn't have any sin problem because we've been completely transformed. On the other hand, acknowledges that everywhere we look we have sin problems. That contradiction, which shows you that we are only changed positionally, we're not changed practically. And then third, I want you to just really grab onto the fact that there's something deeper going on. There's biology, psychology, there's brain chemistry, there's need, there's want, And I'm tired of Christians who get all they get, they have everything, but they want to condemn everyone who doesn't and tell them, hey, you just do without and you should be able to deal with it.

1:10:16 People have deep needs, deep needs. But see that requires nuance, that requires thought, that requires how do we handle this? And there's sometimes not easy answers. But Christianity just wants to say stop it, don't do it, just don't. Yeah, a lot we could say there, but I'll stop there because we're at seventy minutes, all right, I think we covered we covered everything. I was going to play a clip for you where you get another from another Christian YouTube video where someone offers their great advice. Right, So, this young person is asking this Christian speaker, Hey, sometimes you know lust is a problem on this school campus.

1:11:13 What can I do about it? Basically, well, this guy said, let me tell you what I do. If I'm driving my car and I see a woman jogging down the sidewalk or a good looking woman on the street corner, I take my hand and I cover one eye and I use the other eye to drive forward. So that his solution is I just cover my eye and that fixes the problem. I just cover my eye. What I just cover my eye. So the problem is her body is the problem. She's the problem. I just can't look at her. Another problem is inside of you. You can cover your eye. You're the problem because you have sin. Well, one, you don't have any problem because those desires are natural and so there's nothing wrong with the desire. The problem is you, well, you have a sinful nature that will take that desire and then guess what You're going to end up sinning. You know why you're going to end up sinning? Because you're gonna look at the woman, You're probably gonna have an impropriate and inappropriate desire or thought.

1:12:08 And guess what. You've committed to sin. You've committed adultery, You've committed fornication, and you keep saying, I gotta stop, I gotta stop, I gotta stop. You're never going to ultimately stop, because you're always going to be in some kind of sin. So you know what your only hope is is to go to Christ, confess it and acknowledge it, and rest in his imputed righteousness. But Christianity wants one hundred percent moral transformation, while we constantly admit by everything we do and say that nobody's ever going to get it, and we don't ever seem to be able to reconcile that contradiction. All right, thank you, I wish I had something better to say. But this is a deeper issue than Christians want to admit. It's deep, and I want you to just understand this is a deeper issue. And so this is not about pornography. It's about that whatever the issue is is, whatever the sin is, whatever the societal problem is, Christianity seems inadequate to address it because we never address it by being truly honest with the real issue, and we only think we can address it from a law based perspective, which law was never designed to fix all of these problems. It was only there to expose these problems and will actually entire will actually promote and increase the sin of the very problem you're addressing.

1:13:31 We've got it so backwards, all right. Thanks for listening. Everyone, have a great day. God bless