Aug. 22, 2024

Charles Finney: The Atonement

We look at the teaching of Charles Finney on the atonement.

Show Notes
Transcript

We look at the teaching of Charles Finney on the atonement.

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good morning everyone.

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It is Thursday, August the twenty second, twenty twenty four.

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It is currently ten twenty three am Central Time, and

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I am coming to you live from the Theology Central

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studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, the gold

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today was to turn on this microphone, go live and

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finish up our look at this article and the Sort

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of the Lord newspaper. Remember the June to seventh, twenty

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twenty four edition of the Sort of the Lord newspaper

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had an article entitled the Holy Spirit and Revival. And

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we have one small section to go, one small section.

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I probably could knock it out in fifteen to twenty minutes,

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maybe twenty five minutes if we do just kind of

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a you know, if I add some thoughts or kind

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of summarize, you know, there's not much there. I could

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really finish it in a relatively short amount of time.

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But it's the final section. Now, the sermon itself, this

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this article, it's a printed sermon, has been somewhat frustrating,

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but it has given us the opportunity to discuss some

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very important points about the Book of Acts, how people,

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you know, twist and misuse and just kind of pick

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whatever they want from the Book of Acts without considering context.

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And we talked about that. We discussed just there. There

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are a lot of the concepts about revival. I really

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struggle with a lot of the way a lot of

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Christians talk about it. And while we were looking at

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this article and the sort of the Lord newspaper about revival, remember,

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I came across a message a broadcast on the Sermon's

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two point zero app entitled how the Heresy of Charles

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Finny shaped America? How the Heresy of Charles Finny shaped America?

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And the broadcasters Reformation Baptist Church. I told everyone to

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go listen to the rest of it, How the heresy

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of Charles Finni shaped America, Reformation Baptist Church. And we

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did a little discussion about Charles Finnie, right, I went

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a little bit through his history. And the most important

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thing to understand is that how most Christians today talk

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about revival. How I can't say most how many Christians

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today talk about revival, It is more influenced by Charles

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Finny than it is scripture. Charles Finny has absolutely influenced

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the minds of many Christians from many different theilological backgrounds.

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When they discuss revival, it's coming from Charles Finnie, and

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Charles Finny had very heretical teachings. Now, when we were

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reviewing this audio, do you remember how it started? Do

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you remember or how it started? You don't? Okay, well,

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I'm gonna play how this broadcast? Remember it was entitled

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how the Heresy of Charles Finnish shaped America by Reformation

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Baptist Church. You can find it on the sermon's two

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point oh app Please go listen to it, Please download it,

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please listen to all of it. All right, but do

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you remember how it started? It started in such a

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way that made me immediately go whoa wait, wait, wait,

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time out. Let's be careful here, Let's check a few things.

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Do you remember? All right? Well, let me let me

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play it. Here is what they said. This is how

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they started their broadcast.

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Tolls finnya is in hell. So why do so many

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churches continue to use his techniques?

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Did you hear that? Do you mean to play that

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one more time? Let me play that one more time?

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You ready? Here we go?

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Tolls finnya is in Hell, So why do so many

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churches continue to use his techniques.

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They come in with both beryls blazing, Charles Finny is

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in Hell. They made an absolute, dogmatic assertion. I tried

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to be a little careful. I was like, well, we

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do know Charles Finny believed this. We do know he

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believed in the Trinity, he believed in the deity of Christ,

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he believed in in the necessity of Christ for atonement.

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All right, So so I kind of tried to say, well, look,

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we can say his teachings were heretical. Absolutely, his teachings

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were wrong. Absolutely, his teaching has influenced a good portion

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of Christianity even today, and that influence is wrong. It's corrupt,

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and churches should reject everything from Charles Finny. I can

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agree with all of that. But I was a little

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hesitant about in Hell. I was really, I was. I was.

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I was very I was very concerned about going that far.

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But as always, whenever I hear something, even if I

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immediately reject it, you know, I'm going to continue to

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study it. You know I'm going to continue. I will

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even even though I may be at the outset one

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hundred percent disagree, and I may have to remember when

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I do reviews, I don't listen to things first, right,

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I'm reviewing and you know, reacting in real time. There.

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I love that because it makes it very real, very organic.

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It's not overly produced. It's it's just a person listening

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to sermons talking to you about them. But I have

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to react. So sometimes I may react and kind of

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push back, and then I have to just rely on

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the spot my knowledge of whatever the subject is. They're

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talking about church history, theology, interpreting a text, So I mean,

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there's a lot going on in the middle of a

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live broadcast when we're doing one of these reviews. But

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please note, and hopefully if you've been listening to me

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for any length of time, you everyone should know this.

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I may argue against you, i may disagree with you,

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but I'm always going to go back and continue to

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study because I always take my past conclusions and throw

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them aside for a present study. Because if my past

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conclusions were wrong, well then I don't want to be

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wrong in the present. So I always challenged myself again.

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So here I was kind of like, well, it's Charles

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Finny in Hell, So I kept reading and kept looking,

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and I saw something about Charles Finnie rejecting substitutionary atonement.

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Now I remember, it's been I don't even know how

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many years, maybe fifteen, twenty, maybe even twenty five years.

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It's been a long time because I kept hearing people

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talk about Finny, Finny Finny, and I did a lot

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of initial study at that time, and I came to

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a conclusion that Finny was a heretic. I mean, I

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definitely I may have even been more condemning than I

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am today, because I just always get nervous when we

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just say that person is in hell, because who are

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we to make that judgment? Now we can judge the teaching,

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we can critique the teaching, and obviously, if they reject

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the deity of Christ, reject the try you and God.

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Where you're rejecting the true God, if you're rejecting salvation

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by grace alone, through faith alone, if you're we can

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I mean, there's some philological tests that we know we

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can look to. So I maybe in the past I

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came to the same conclusion, but I just I try

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to be very careful about claiming someone is in hell.

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I think we should always be careful but today I

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saw something about Charles Finni rejecting substitutionary atonement, and I'm like, well,

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wait a minute. So I've read some things so about

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his belief in atonement, and now I've read other things.

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So what is the possible truth about Finny on substitutionary atonement?

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Because I think maybe we could get closer to well,

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what was the reality of Charles Finney's salvation? Can we

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even know? Well? So I did a little research, and

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here's what I have found. Now we need to continue

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to do research. Don't take this as you know, continue

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to do your own. But here is what I found.

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All right, here is what I found. Are you ready?

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Here we go? Here we go. First paragraph. Charles Finny

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rejected the traditional doctrine of substitutionary atonement, which is the

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belief that Jesus Christ died as a substitute for sinners,

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bearing the punishment that they deserved, thereby satisfying God's justice.

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This doctrine is central to Orthodox Christian theology, particular and

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particularly and Reformed and Evangelical traditions. I would say it, Look,

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if you reject substitutionary atonement, I just that's not Christianity.

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You may want to claim Christianity, but that's not Christianity.

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If you reject substitutionary atonement, you no, you should not

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be considered a Christian. You're creating a new religion.

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I mean.

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Christianity is about the fact that God is holy, and

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that we are sinners, and that we cannot save ourselves.

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We are helpless, hopeless, there's nothing we can do. God

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sent his son, His son keeps the law on our

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behalf because we cannot keep it, saved or unsaved, and

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then he goes to the cross. Then my sins, my

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law breaking, my corruption is imputed or accredited, is placed

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upon Christ, and a sense it's imputed to him. God

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pours out his wrath on his son. Christ serves as

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a propitiation, satisfying that wrath. And then by my putting

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my faith in Him, my sins are paid for, My

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sins are forgiven. And then as my sin was imputed

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to Christ, his obedience and righteousness is imputed to me.

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And then I stand perfect, righteous and holy. I stand

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as a new creature in Christ Jesus, not in practice.

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This is because I'm saved by an imputed righteousness, not

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an infused righteousness, but he is my substitution. He's my substitution.

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He provides atonement, He's he's the substitution, substitutionary atonement for sinners.

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That's like central to Christianity. If you don't have that,

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you don't have Christianity, you have something else. And according

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to this Finny rejected that traditional doctrine. Well, if he

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rejected that traditional doctrine, ladies and gentlemen, remember when I

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kind of give a pushback on that where it says

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Charles Finney is in hell. They may have been one

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hundred percent right. Let's read a little bit more about this.

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Here's Finny's view of the atonement. According to one source,

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Charles Finny taught what is known as the moral government

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theory of atonement, the moral government theory of atonement. Now

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you may be asking what is the moral government theory.

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Finny subscribed to what is known as the moral government

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theory of the atonement. According to this view, the atonement

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was not about Christ's substitution, substituting himself for sinners and

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bearing the punishment. Instead, it was about God demonstrating his

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displeasure with sin and upholding the moral order of the universe.

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The death of Christ served as a public demonstration or

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moral example deter sin and encourage righteousness, rather than a

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payment of debt ode to God. I want you to

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hear that again. Is this now? This is completely not orthodox,

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This is completely heretical. And this to me puts Finny

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outside of Christianity, meaning he wasn't a Christian. Therefore, I

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think it would be possibly fair to say, if Christianity

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is true, Charles Finny is in hell. And I think

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it also demonstrates every church utilizing the techniques and the

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philosophies and the ideas about revival that came from Charles

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FINNI you're using your ideas of revival that came from

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a lost person. And I was recommended Charles Finny and

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told about Finny countless times whenever they would talk about revivals.

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All right, so let's let's read this again. I want

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to make sure you have this down today. I want you,

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I want you to I want you to do your

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own research on this. All right, here we go. Finny

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subscribed to what is known as the moral government theory

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of the Atonement. According to this view, the Atonement was

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not about Christ substituting himself for sinners and bearing their punishment. Instead,

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it was about God demonstrating his displeasure with sin and

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upholding the moral order of the universe the death of Christ.

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According to the moral government theory, the death of Christ

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served as a public demonstration or moral example to deter

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sin and encourage righteousness, rather than a payment of debt

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owed to God. Basically, Christ's death was simply a moral example.

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He wasn't paying for sin. It was just a moral example,

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so it would deter you from sin and cause you

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to pursue righteousness. That is literally not Christianity. Finny argued

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that the idea of penal substitution, where Christ suffers the

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exact punishment that sinners deserved, was inconsistent with the nature

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of God's justice. He believed it portrayed God as unjust, because,

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in his view, it would be unjust for God to

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punish the innocent Christ instead of the guilty. Finny contended

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that God's justice couldnot require the punishment of sin. God

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could not require the punishment of sin if the sinner

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repents and reforms, So as long as the sinner repents

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and reforms doesn't need a payment, well, no, we need

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a payment, because even if I repent and even if

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I reform, Well, that's because see, then you could go

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to Finny rejecting original I guess we'll call it original

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sin or human depravity. He held to a Pallagian view.

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So yeah, so he rejects human depravity, he rejects substitutionary atonement,

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he rejects penal substitution. Finny was not a Christian, he

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goes on to say. For Finny, the atonement was effective

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not because it satisfied God's wrath, but because it provided

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a moral influence on humanity. Christ's suffering and death served

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as an example that revealed the seriousness of sin and

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the links to which God would go to maintain moral order.

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It was meant to inspire people to repent and live righteously,

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rather than appeasing God's anger. See, Jesus didn't die to

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satisfy the wrath of God. He didn't propitiate the wrath

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of God. He didn't pay for anything. He simply died

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to be an example. So that will like, sin is

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really bad and we should be good. And Finney's view

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and Finney's view, the atonement made salvation possible, but did

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not guarantee it for anyone. He emphasized that individuals must repent,

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exercise faith, and lead a holy life in order to

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benefit from the Christ's atoning work. This contrast with the

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traditional view, where the atonatus sin is an accomplished fact

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that directly results in the salvation of those who have

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faith in Christ. Finney's rejection of substitutionary atonement was part

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of his broader departure from traditional reform theology. His views

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were influenced by his emphasis on human free will and

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moral responsibility. By reject acting substitutionary atonement, Finny placed a

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greater emphasis on human response and moral action for the

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process of salvation. Finny's views were controversial and led to

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significant criticism for those who adhere to traditional doctrines. His

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approach to the atonement is considered unorthodox within most historical

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Christian traditions, particularly those that emphasize the necessity of christ

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substitutionary death for the forgiveness of sins. I'm going to

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paraphrase Charles Finnie was not a Christian. Charles Finni did

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not teach Christianity. He taught a counterfeit form of Christianity.

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His entire understanding of sin of salvation of the atonement,

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a penal substitution, substitutionary atonement. All of his views were wrong,

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all of his views were heretical, all of his views

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were corrupt, and therefore everything he promoted should at least,

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at the very least be questionable. I think we should

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just reject everything that came from Charles Finni. I don't

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know how his books are even sold in Christian bookstores,

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but they there were. His views on Revival were promoted

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over and over and over and over and over and

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over and over. So when you hear people talk about Revival,

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if what they're saying sounds more like Charles Finnie, then

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you know that their views on Revival was being influenced

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by a man who was a heretic, who is not

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a Christian, and who did not teach Christianity. And so

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I wanted to add to this discussion so that I

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could be one hundred percent fair, because when when they

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said it, I was like, oh, now, to be fair,

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they didn't immediately go in because the way they should

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have came in is hey, that was that was a

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hot introduction, right, we came in with both barrels blazing.

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Let us begin by justifying our claim that Charles Finny

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is in hell. Here are the five reasons we believe

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he is in hell. And then they could immediately went

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after he rejected human depravity, he rejected substitutionary atonement, he

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rejected penal substitution, and so yes, penal substitution, substitutionary atonement,

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and he taught a moral government theory of atonement. They could,

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I mean, I could break it down for them. That

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would have made it a little bit easier, but they

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didn't necessarily go directly into that. They did go to

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some of his flawed teachings. But some of those teachings,

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I kept arguing, does that rise to the level of

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someone not being saved? Remember, someone can be saved and

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still be wrong phiologically on a lot of issues. Your

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theological correctness does not, you know, throw out your salvation,

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but you have to have a certain level of things right.

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You're trusting in Christ, who died four year sins, Well,

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he's not trusting in Christ for his atonement. Christ's death

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is just an example. So he's not trusting in Christ

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for the forgiveness of sins. I mean, like there's and

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when you reject this, now he may try to then

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he may have tried to argue and use some different language,

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but at the very nature he's rejecting the truth of Christianity.

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So let's do this. I'm going to open up this.

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I'm going to open up the sermon's two point oh app.

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I'm going to open up the sermon's two point oh app.

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I'm going to go to the discover tab. I'm going

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to put moral government theory. Uh huh, all right, we

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don't have okay, we don't have much moral government theory.

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That doesn't appear to be any messages on that. Okay,

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00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:04.000
that's that's not good. How many messages are there on

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Charles Let's do this Charles Finny. All right, there are, Yeah,

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there are a number of sermons on Charles Finnie, a

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number of sermons. So here's what I would challenge you

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to do for are for the sermons two point oh app.

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Sermon challenge it is. It is currently Thursday. I would

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like you to take Thursday, Friday, Saturday, maybe Sunday. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

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and I want you to look up messages on Charles Finnie.

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I want you to look up messages on Charles Finny.

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We're gonna, we're gonna really add to this, We're gonna,

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we're gonna really double down on this. So you may

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find sermons that support Charles Finnie, you may find sermons

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that reject Charles Finnie. Hopefully you'll get a wide a

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lot of different perspective, but it'll be well worth your time,

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and it stays true to what we're trying to do

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in twenty twenty four is getting people to use the

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Sermon's two point oh app. So for those listening on

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other platforms, go to the Apple App Store the Google

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Play Store. Look for the app Sermons two point zero

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Sermons two point oh right, download the app. If you

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cannot find the app, you can contact me and I

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will help you find it. But find the Sermon's two

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point oh app. Go to the discover tab, hit the

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little search icon. Type in Charles FINNI boom, and I

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don't know exactly how many sermons are here, but there

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is a pages here of things underneath that, and and

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well just tell me what you find. Just just start listening,

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Just start listening, and let's make it Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

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It's all about Charles Finnie. I think that'll be well

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worth your time because and because what I really want

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to do though, and just remember my purpose in this

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is the more we can see Charles Finny was a heretic,

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and the more we can reject him, then the more

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it should make us question. So what a lot of

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people do is just say, well, Charles Finny was bad

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and we move on. But what we have to do

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is go, Okay, Charles Finny was bad, he was a heretic,

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He's in hell. Now what we have to do is

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where is his influence still in the church. Even though

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we reject some of his philological understanding about penal substitution,

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substitutionary atonement, human depravity. We may reject his false teaching

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on that, but many people will still utilize his philosophies

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and methods and techniques when it comes to revival and evangelism. Now,

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I don't think you should be borrowing from any technique,

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any philosophy, anything that he would it would give us,

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since it's not coming from someone who's even saved. Your

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your evangelism, your your revival concepts should not be coming

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from a lost person. That that is that's the issue here. Yeah,

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I mean, it's easy to go, well, there was someone

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who lived in the past. He was very influential, but

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he was a heretic. Great now we could ask why

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was he so well received? If he was so heretical,

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Why was he so well received? I think that's a

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00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:35.559
very good question. But I'm more concerned with why did

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his influence impact all of these generations of Christians after

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and they brought that into their so called revival meetings

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and their and their evangelist evangelistic techniques. Why why was

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Charles Vnni so influential at his time and later on,

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even though it appears he was straight up a heretic.

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Now this means that in many cases, what really impacts Christians,

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what really he draws an audience, is not philological correctness.

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All right, So there you go. That's what I want

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you to do this week. It's Thursday.

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Make it a.

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Charles Finny weekend. Kick your weekend off today. Tell your family, Hey,

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we're gonna have a Charles Finny weekend. And the kids

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will be like, yay, you see, you can dress up

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like people from that time and will reenact some scenes

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and okay, and your kids will be like, what is this?

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We're having a Charles Finny party. Okay, but no we

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do we I mean all Christians need to be aware

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of who he was. But most importantly, the voice of

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Charles Finny still speaks today, possibly inside your church, possibly

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and articles about revival. Possibly when you see churches scheduling

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a revival service. Hey, we're going to have a re

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fall revival, summer revival, winter revival. What is that? The

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voice is that the ghost of Charles Finney. All right,

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should be a fun weekend. Enjoy. Thanks for listening. I

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am and I am thankful. Let me let me make

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it very clear. I mean, go back to this good

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I'm going to go back to my player here. I'm

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very grateful to Reformation Baptist Church for bringing this subject

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to life. Please again, go listen to their message. If

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you have not finished their message, how the heresy of

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Charles Finnish shaped America. Reformation Baptist Church. Please follow them,

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subscribe to them. I am very grateful for there. Remember

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even when I was first disagreeing with at least some

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of that, I was disagreeing with a little bit of

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it just because I wanted to be careful. Like Look,

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I don't apologize like I would rather turn on the

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microphone and go, hey, they ultimately were right and I

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was wrong. I got no problem doing that, but I

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would always just be I just want to be careful

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before I'm like, hey, that person's just not a Christian.

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Charles Finney: The Atonement

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