Nov. 13, 2024

Calvinism

Calvinism

A response to an email question about Calvinism

Spreaker Apple Podcasts Spotify PocketCasts Amazon Music Overcast Audible Castro iHeartRadio Castbox Podchaser TuneIn Deezer Pandora RadioPublic Podcast Addict RSS Feed YouTube Fountain PlayerFM Goodpods Podverse Podyssey Breaker Podurama Audacy JioSaavn
Spreaker podcast player icon Spreaker Spreaker Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Apple Podcasts Apple Podcasts Spotify podcast player icon Spotify Spotify PocketCasts podcast player icon PocketCasts PocketCasts Amazon Music podcast player icon Amazon Music Amazon Music Overcast podcast player icon Overcast Overcast Audible podcast player icon Audible Audible Castro podcast player icon Castro Castro iHeartRadio podcast player icon iHeartRadio iHeartRadio Castbox podcast player icon Castbox Castbox Podchaser podcast player icon Podchaser Podchaser TuneIn podcast player icon TuneIn TuneIn Deezer podcast player icon Deezer Deezer Pandora podcast player icon Pandora Pandora RadioPublic podcast player icon RadioPublic RadioPublic Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podcast Addict Podcast Addict RSS Feed podcast player icon RSS Feed RSS Feed YouTube podcast player icon YouTube YouTube Fountain podcast player icon Fountain Fountain PlayerFM podcast player icon PlayerFM PlayerFM Goodpods podcast player icon Goodpods Goodpods Podverse podcast player icon Podverse Podverse Podyssey podcast player icon Podyssey Podyssey Breaker podcast player icon Breaker Breaker Podurama podcast player icon Podurama Podurama Audacy podcast player icon Audacy Audacy JioSaavn podcast player icon JioSaavn JioSaavn

A response to an email question about Calvinism

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:06.080
Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

2
00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:12.720
the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone.

3
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:17.320
It is Wednesday, November thirteenth, twenty twenty four. It is

4
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:21.120
currently one forty two pm Central Time, and I am

5
00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:25.359
coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located

6
00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:31.239
right here in Albilene, Texas. Now, let me speak directly

7
00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:34.560
to you who are a church member, those of you

8
00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.479
who are church members, right, those of you who attend church.

9
00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:40.039
You are a church member, or maybe you're not a

10
00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:41.840
member of a church, but you attend church on a

11
00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.799
regular basis, or you're just a Christian. I don't know

12
00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.159
what your connection is with a church or not with

13
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:49.920
a church, but you are a Christian. In other words,

14
00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:52.280
I'm going to speak to all Christians church member, non

15
00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:57.079
church member, church attender, non church attender, all Christians who

16
00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.240
are not pastors, who are not your You're not a

17
00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.640
seminary professor, you're not a teacher, you're not you just

18
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:06.840
go to church. You're just a believer, all right. I

19
00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:08.640
want to speak to you directly, and I want to

20
00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:10.840
ask you some questions or question. I don't know how

21
00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:13.280
many I may ask here. I may just take the

22
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.840
same question or rephrase it a number of different ways

23
00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:20.599
as a Christian, as not a pastor, not a seminary professor,

24
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:22.719
just as someone who goes to church attends church, a

25
00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:26.680
member of a church, as a Christian as a lay person,

26
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:29.599
maybe we use that term. I want to make sure

27
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.239
I can try to find every category I can mention

28
00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:34.319
so that no one feels left out. All right, I

29
00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.439
want to make sure everyone knows I'm asking you this

30
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:42.079
question when it comes to philological and doctrinal disputes that

31
00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.959
have been going on for two thousand years in Christianity

32
00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.000
and no one can agree. How do you handle it

33
00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.799
as just an everyday lay person? What do you do?

34
00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.400
How do you handle it? You do you hear? Well?

35
00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:56.719
I listened to this side. I listen to this side.

36
00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.239
Or here's the millennialist, here's the dispensationalist. Okay, wait, here's

37
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:04.560
the Calvinists, Here's the non Calvinists, here's the here's the

38
00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.680
people for pro infant baptism. Here's the people against infant baptism.

39
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:11.159
Here's people who believe sprinkling is okay. Here's the people

40
00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:13.680
who believe immersion is okay. Here's people who believe in

41
00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.199
open communion. Here's people who believe in close communion. Here's

42
00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:18.719
people who believed in closed communion. Here's people who believe

43
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:20.479
you could lose your salvation. Here's people who believe you

44
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:24.360
can't lose your salvation. Here's lordship salvation, Here's non lordship salvation.

45
00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.680
Here's easy believism. Here's free grace. Oh oh, And it

46
00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:29.520
goes on and on and on and on and on

47
00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.199
and on and on and on and on and on

48
00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.520
and on and on and on. What do you do?

49
00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.319
Do you just kind of just pick your own just

50
00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:36.560
kind of say, well, you know what, I'm gonna go

51
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:38.719
with this side. I'm gonna go with this side. Do

52
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.719
you do you decide, Okay, I'm gonna dig in to

53
00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:46.039
every part of this poological debate, and I'm gonna read

54
00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.000
all the books on this side, and I'm going to

55
00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.159
read all the books on this side. Do you just

56
00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.280
decide to dig in and do extensive, you know, six

57
00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:56.840
month long studies in the Bible alone, trying to figure

58
00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:58.960
out which one is true and which one is false?

59
00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:01.159
You at some point you just throw up your hands

60
00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:03.280
and go, you know what, it doesn't really matter because

61
00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:08.199
nobody agrees. How do you handle all of it? How

62
00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.080
do you handle it? What do you do? How do

63
00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.719
you find any peace? Does it bother you of the

64
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:20.479
never ending debates and disagreements? Does it drive you crazy

65
00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.199
that there's this group, in this group, and this and

66
00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.159
every group thinks they're right. Everyone thinks they're right. The

67
00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.639
Presbyterian thinks they're right. The Baptist thinks they're right, the

68
00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:33.800
Lutheran thinks they're right, The Greek Orthodox thinks they're right,

69
00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:37.159
the Episcopalian thinks they're right. You just go on and on,

70
00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.759
the Methodist, the Church of Christ. Everyone thinks they're right.

71
00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.479
And everyone will hold up a Bible and say that

72
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.680
we believe in the inerrancy that the Word of God

73
00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.919
is infallible, it is preserved, it's God's word, it is

74
00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.039
there are authority, it is the soul authority, and we

75
00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:56.759
base all of our teaching on the Word of God.

76
00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.479
And while everyone says that, for some weird reason, everyone

77
00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:05.039
comes to radically different opinions and conclusions, and they believe

78
00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:09.000
those conclusions are not just their opinion, they believe that

79
00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.719
those conclusions are right. They are dogmatic, and if you

80
00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:15.759
disagree with them, you may be labled a heretic All

81
00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:20.240
of that happens continually within Christendom, day in day out.

82
00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.199
This is the right teaching, No, this is the right teaching. Well,

83
00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:25.920
and everyone will say the scriptures are the final authority,

84
00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.720
the sole authority, the inerrant and followable Word of God

85
00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.199
is the authority. And then like du Well, this group

86
00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.360
says that. This group says that. So everyone says the

87
00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:35.879
Word of God is the final authority, but nobody agrees

88
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.279
and what that authority actually says or what it teaches?

89
00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.040
Are you just happy to say this is what I

90
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.480
believe and just leave it at that. Just leave it

91
00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:49.720
at that. And if you hear something that contradicts what

92
00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.600
you believe, you ask your pastor you ask someone who

93
00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.720
already agrees with you to recommend some books that will

94
00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.680
help prove your point and disprove their point. Do you

95
00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:08.040
listen to the other side? Do you consider the other side?

96
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.279
Do you realize at some point it's just you're never

97
00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.560
gonna come to an answer? What do you do? Like?

98
00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:22.879
How do you approach it? Does it drive you insane? Well?

99
00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:26.040
The reason I'm asking that kind of basically one question

100
00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.040
over and over and over in different ways is because

101
00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:35.160
someone emailed me and asking me a question about a

102
00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.720
very debated and controversial subject that directly relates to well

103
00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.199
the subject of soteriology or well, just to make it simple, salvation,

104
00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:50.720
How we are saved? Who is saved? Why are these

105
00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.519
people saved? Those people are not? Why is that individual

106
00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:59.600
saved and that individual not saved? So it's a doctrinal issue,

107
00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:05.279
It's a doctrinal dispute. It's a philological controversy. So what

108
00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:10.360
can I do to help this individual? I don't even know?

109
00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:13.399
Should my desire be to help them come to a conclusion? Now,

110
00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.720
my approach on this has dramatically changed over the years.

111
00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.959
When I was younger, then I'm like, okay, I'm on,

112
00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:24.920
here's my theological team, all right. If someone emails me,

113
00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.480
I'm going to answer that question. According to my theological team,

114
00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.079
I'm going to do everything I can to explain it,

115
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.279
to defend it, and to explain why the other side

116
00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.639
is wrong. I really very much in a kind of

117
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:44.040
a debate mode, a fight mode, a defend mode. But

118
00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.800
over the years I've kind of taken a different approach

119
00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:51.879
because a lot of theological issues. I still may believe

120
00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:53.879
this side is right and this side is wrong. But

121
00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:55.519
a lot of times I like to step back and

122
00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.439
going to wait, before we get into a fight, what

123
00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.680
exactly are we debating here? Like, when you really boil

124
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.240
it down, what are we really debating? What are we

125
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:08.279
really fighting? Because there's got to be something that you know,

126
00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:11.560
does it? How much does this dispute really matter? Now?

127
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.519
Sometimes the dispute matters far more than it may appear.

128
00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:19.040
Like there are times where what may seem insignificant is

129
00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:23.720
really far more significant because it has profound impact on

130
00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:27.240
Bible hermeneutics and how you interpret the scriptures. And if

131
00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:29.680
you go with that idea here, it's going to have

132
00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.560
a massive impact on how you interpret the rest of

133
00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:36.360
the Bible. So sometimes what may seem insignificant is very significant.

134
00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:41.120
And sometimes what seems, oh, there's this huge divide, we're

135
00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.199
never going to agree, let's fight, fight, fight, Sometimes when

136
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.959
you step back and go but what are you really fighting?

137
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.680
What where are you going to actually end up? And

138
00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:54.600
so sometimes I like to step back and kind of

139
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:57.319
look at it in a bigger from a kind of

140
00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:01.240
a bigger perspective. Hopefully maybe maybe I can do that.

141
00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.879
So here is what the email is about. I'll just

142
00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.079
go ahead and tell you the email is about the

143
00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.560
subject of Calvinism. Now, I cannot stand really the word

144
00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:14.079
Calvinism because that reduces an entire doctrinal system to John Calvin,

145
00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.399
one man and Calvinism. It's not about John Calvin, it's

146
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.839
not about Luther, it's not about you name any of

147
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:25.360
the reformers. It's not about Augustin so early, about the scriptures.

148
00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:29.160
It's really about what do the scriptures say in regards

149
00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:35.039
to salvation. Now, specific men have systematized or a doctrinal

150
00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:38.320
system becomes connected to them because of their teaching on it.

151
00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.720
But the issue isn't what that man says. The issue

152
00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:46.360
isn't what a certain individual says. It's what the Word

153
00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:49.600
of God says. And here's the frustrating part, though, here's

154
00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:54.759
the frustrating part. No matter what doctrinal system, lordship salvation,

155
00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:02.440
non lordship salvation, a millennialism, Arminianism, Lvinism, dispensationalism, you name it,

156
00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.720
pre trib, post trib, mid trip, it doesn't matter. I mean,

157
00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:07.759
we can just I'm just throwing out all kinds of views.

158
00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.399
Infant baptism, non infant baptism. You just go through all

159
00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:16.080
the philological issues. Here's what's frustrating. Even if we disregard

160
00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.840
all the teachings of men and all of their arguments

161
00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.360
and all of their systems, even if we get rid

162
00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:23.759
of all of that and we get to scripture, here's

163
00:09:23.799 --> 00:09:33.039
what happens. Every side has their scriptures. Everyone every side.

164
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.519
I don't know. We can remove anyone who would reject

165
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.559
the sole authority of scripture. We can reject that because

166
00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.960
they would be relying on something else, right, But when

167
00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.279
it comes to most Christians, they're going to hold up

168
00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.679
their Bible saying this is the final authority, this is

169
00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.639
the final authority for all doctrine, for all theology. We

170
00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:55.399
base our doctrine and theology on the Word of God alone,

171
00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:59.919
solo scriptorra scripture alone. It is infallible, it is in errant.

172
00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.039
So everyone will say that, and they'll give you and

173
00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:05.360
you can ask them their question. No, here's the scriptures

174
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.879
that prove my point. And then they'll come along. No, no, no, no,

175
00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.279
here's the scriptures that prove my point. And then if

176
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:14.960
you're just again the people I'm addressing, just a lay person,

177
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.840
non church member, church member, church attender, whatever the case

178
00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.360
may be, you're like Okay, So which side do I

179
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.480
go with? Do I go with this side or do

180
00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:27.840
I go with this side? They've got their scriptures, but

181
00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:32.639
they got their scriptures. Which scriptures? Which scriptures prove their point?

182
00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.519
Because you've got very obviously educated and godly people on

183
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:42.919
both sides claiming the scriptures teach their perspective. Now you

184
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.879
can come along and go. They got all their scriptures wrong.

185
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.360
These are the right scriptures. You can do that. But again,

186
00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:53.000
sometimes it is so maddening. So here's what we're going

187
00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.320
to do. We're going to take a little journey through

188
00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:57.120
a lot of death. I'm gonna go a little bit

189
00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.759
of my past where I am, and I'm just gonna

190
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.159
try to kind of challenge this, maybe in a way

191
00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.000
that most people would not answer it. Okay, So here's

192
00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:09.799
the email. Here is the email. I received this at

193
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:15.240
eight twenty eight am today, eight twenty eight am today.

194
00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.799
It begins this way. I have listened to you for

195
00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.840
a while now and agree with a lot that you say. Wait,

196
00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:27.919
you don't agree with everything. What in the world. I'm sorry,

197
00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:30.840
I'm sorry. I do not answer emails to people who

198
00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.039
don't agree with me in everything. I only answer emails

199
00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.840
with people who agree with me in everything, or who

200
00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:40.879
send me one thousand dollars that I'm joking. I'm joking.

201
00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.279
I'm joking. I'm always shocked that people don't agree with me.

202
00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:45.639
I don't know how how can you not agree with

203
00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:52.559
me in everything? My logic is flawless, my reasoning is impeccable,

204
00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.759
my genius. Okay, now I'm just I'm being facetious. I'm

205
00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.399
just being sarcastic. Some people are gonna click that and say,

206
00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:02.240
look at the man. He's an egomaniac, He's an Okay,

207
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.440
I'm just joking, all right, serious z illological issue. We

208
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.240
can have a little bit of fun here, all right.

209
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:13.600
So unfortunately this person is wrong, because anytime someone disagrees

210
00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:16.200
with me, they are wrong, all right, But they go

211
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:19.480
on to say I too, this is the email are

212
00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.639
speaking now? Have struggled with lordship salvation and I've appreciated

213
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.320
your podcast on those. Okay, well, good, all right, we

214
00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.279
are an agreement there. And just for anyone who's new listening,

215
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.360
I used to be a big supporter of the lordship

216
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:36.000
position because when I became a Christian, lordship's salvation was

217
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:40.159
just was kind of being introduced, right, as far as

218
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:44.720
maybe the title that idea being labeled that way. MacArthur's

219
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.440
book The Gospel according to Jesus had just been released,

220
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:51.120
and I felt I thought that was just Christianity. I

221
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.759
didn't really think, oh, lordship salvation versus non. I just thought, oh,

222
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.600
this is Christianity, and anything that disagrees with this isn't Christianity.

223
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.559
I didn't have any fuel logical. Once again, the person

224
00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:06.519
sitting in the pew, the your perspective is always very interesting.

225
00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:09.360
Then maybe someone with a lot of the philological education,

226
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.480
but for me, I just thought that it was. And

227
00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:13.399
then over time, of course we could go through my

228
00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:17.919
journey of well beginning to question lordship salvation. Right, They

229
00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:21.240
go on to say, and I also understand and also

230
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:28.840
understanding law and gospel passages are imperative to understanding Christianity. Okay, yes,

231
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.080
law and gospel. Understanding the distinction between law and gospel

232
00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.639
is absolutely their their keywords or their words they use,

233
00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:41.919
and perative to understanding Christianity. We are so much in

234
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.000
agreement on that. The subje just the email continues the

235
00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.080
subject I also struggle with that I haven't really heard

236
00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:59.039
you talk much about. Is Calvinism all right, well, well Finnich,

237
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:00.879
I want to just jump in right there, but okay,

238
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:06.399
we'll continue unless I've missed those podcasts. I see what

239
00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.440
the past, I see what the passages that seem to

240
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.200
support a lot of tulips say, but struggle, especially with

241
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.039
God predestinating some to salvation and others to damnation. I

242
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.399
don't consider myself a Calvinist, but I do question that doctrine,

243
00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.759
especially for that reason. If you can discuss this on

244
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.759
a podcast at some point, I would greatly appreciate it

245
00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.240
and will be listening. Thank you. Now. The good thing

246
00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.960
about this email is underneath it is says sent from

247
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.759
my iPhone. Well, the fact that they're using an iPhone

248
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:43.320
and Apple device immediately says you, Well, you are one

249
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.159
of the predestined. You are one of the elect because

250
00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:50.240
you're using an iPhone, which demonstrates that you are godly spiritual,

251
00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.559
probably completely sanctified, and probably ready for heaven because you're

252
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.399
not using one of those evil Android devices. And those

253
00:14:57.440 --> 00:15:01.279
people are demonic, satanic and well actually kind of scary

254
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.240
and you don't really want to have anything to do

255
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.600
with Okay, I'm joking again. I'm joking again. All right,

256
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.240
So they struggle with the idea, and in fact their

257
00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:14.960
words are let me see here, I struggle, especially with

258
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:22.240
God predestinating some to salvation. All right, so let's stop,

259
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.519
let's kind of go back. I'm gonna bring you through

260
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.200
my journey, and then I'm gonna probably handle this in

261
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.120
a way that nobody else would handle it, because typically

262
00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:33.960
if you email someone like this, if they're a Calvinist,

263
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.240
they're gonna come in and you're like, I'm going to

264
00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.360
defend Calvinism and explain to you why it's true. And

265
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.159
if they're a non Calvinist, I'm going to come to

266
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.440
you and explain to you why it's why. I'm gonna

267
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.840
explain why the non Calvinist view is right and Calvinism

268
00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:50.679
is wrong. The Calvinist is gonna say, I'm gonna explain

269
00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.159
to you why Calvinism is right and the non Calvinism

270
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.519
perspective is wrong. And they have their agenda, they have

271
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.720
their team, and if you've been listening to me, you

272
00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.799
know I hate pill Lodge teams. Right, So I'm going

273
00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.120
to approach this in a way that may not be helpful,

274
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.600
but it's it's going to be at least unique. So,

275
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.200
all right, hopefully maybe it'll be somewhat unique. All right,

276
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:15.279
so are you ready? Let's start with my journey. I

277
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.399
was saved in a Southern Baptist church here in the

278
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:25.120
middle of nowhere, Texas, First Baptist Church of Tuscola, Texas

279
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.320
Fall Revival. It was an it was October. It was

280
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:32.840
a revival service. I don't remember anything that was preached.

281
00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:36.039
I just knew I'm a sinner, I deserve to go

282
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:40.120
to Hell, and Jesus Christ paid for my sins. That's

283
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.279
about all I understood. I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ,

284
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.080
and I was saved. It was a very non Calvinistic church.

285
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:50.519
It was an Armenian church, believed in free will. I

286
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:54.080
wouldn't They would have probably not stated that they were

287
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.240
Pelagian or semi Pallagian because they didn't really get into

288
00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.960
any serious theology. They didn't really mention calvin of non Calvinism.

289
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.440
The only thing they really mentioned was Church of Christ

290
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.720
because it's West Texas and there was a Church of

291
00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:10.720
Christ church almost in the same property of as the

292
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.759
Baptist church or they were literally right next to one another.

293
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:15.880
It was kind of funny, but right next to one another.

294
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.039
So they would talk about church Christ about the idea

295
00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.279
of losing your salvation or baptismal regeneration. But the Southern

296
00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.920
Baptist Church was not a theologically minded church. It was

297
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:30.920
more about you know, revival and evangelism and and you know,

298
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:34.200
don't drink, don't listen to rock and roll, don't dance,

299
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.599
you know, don't have you know, sex before marriage. It

300
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:42.000
was that kind of a moralistic, revivalistic, you know, very

301
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:48.160
much about you know, holy living kind of thing, piet Pietism,

302
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:50.319
that type of thing. That's kind of what it was.

303
00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.960
And but I, after becoming safe, I had theological question

304
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.640
after theological question, after theological question, after theological question, after

305
00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.880
theological question after theological question, and finally I'm like, I

306
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.160
give up. You guys won't give me anything. So I

307
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.039
did a lot of my study theological studies, was buying books,

308
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.000
libraries at Christian universities, just reading, reading, reading, and the

309
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.400
more questions I have, I wasn't getting anywhere because the

310
00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.720
Southern Baptist Church was just like, you know, their answers

311
00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:24.720
were I don't even know. There was no there was

312
00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.079
no depth to them. There was there was just like

313
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.279
there was none there was I was going to try

314
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.519
to give you a measurement for the depth of the answers,

315
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.279
but there literally was no depth to be found. So

316
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.400
I found myself in a Lutheran church. Now, the first

317
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.000
Lutheran church I found, I was like, what in the

318
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.319
world is this. It was the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

319
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:47.799
It was liberal, and it was I didn't quite understand

320
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:49.759
what was going on there. So then I found myself

321
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:56.160
in a Missouri syned Lutheran church, philological, rooted in church history,

322
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:01.000
doctrinal and oh. Then the next you know, I'm going

323
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.279
to classes, you know, with the Catechism, classes with Luther's

324
00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.240
Catechism and the Augsburg Confessions, and I'm oh, I'm learning doctrine,

325
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.279
I'm learning theology, and man, this is awesome and and

326
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:16.640
everything is going great. And then this is the first

327
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:21.880
time I was confronted with this calvinistic idea of predestination.

328
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.960
I'm sitting in the driveway of my house. One of

329
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.759
the he was in his twenties. I was a teenager.

330
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:30.960
I think he was in his twenties, young adult who

331
00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.160
attended the Lutheran Church. We would go to movies together,

332
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.440
do things together, and he was bringing me home one

333
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.759
evening and we got into a theological discussion, because I

334
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.599
was always having theological discussions, and he started kind of

335
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:46.279
putting forth this calvinistic idea, and I was kind of

336
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:52.799
looking at him like, I think you're out of your mind, right.

337
00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.960
It didn't make any sense to me. It didn't make

338
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:59.319
any sense to me at all. I was somewhat perplexed

339
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.039
and conf used. It didn't make a lot of sense

340
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.880
to me what he was trying to say. Because he

341
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.440
was trying to say I think a lot of it

342
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:08.400
would have been the way, you know, he was a

343
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.200
lay person. He wasn't, you know, in ministry or anything.

344
00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.400
And I think the way he was trying to articulate

345
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.880
it just seemed like it seemed all confusing. But I

346
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:22.160
do remember this as my time as a Lutheran, I

347
00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:27.559
begin to be much more understand that I'm born a sinner,

348
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.920
that I am born depraved, that I'm a depraved sinner,

349
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:35.200
that I am born dead in my trespasses and sins.

350
00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.000
I was really starting to understand that. So, sitting in

351
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:43.160
the parking lot of my Lutheran church, I was having

352
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:47.839
conversations with basically my best friend at the time, he

353
00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.279
still attended the Southern Baptist Church. I left the Southern

354
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.599
Baptist Church. He was still there. So we were having

355
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:58.680
a conversation and his explanation of human beings were in fact,

356
00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:00.559
do I have one here? Lean? I mean, I'm gonna

357
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:05.319
reach down and grab this. I'm gonna grab a notebook here.

358
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.079
I'm gonna go to the back of the notebook. I'm

359
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:10.359
gonna go to the very back. I'm gonna rip out

360
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.759
this paper. Right, I'm gonna rip this out if I can.

361
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.920
I'm gonna rip out this paper. All right, there's a

362
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:22.799
blank sheet of paper. It's all nice straight. Well. He

363
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:25.839
this is my Baptist friend at the Southern Baptist Church

364
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.759
I left. Right. We're sitting in the parking lot of

365
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.839
Our Savior Lutheran Church, Missouri, centered on South Seventh Street

366
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.279
now Bailene, Texas. You can look it up. It's a

367
00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:38.440
cool looking round building right right. And I've always said

368
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.680
when when my if my church goes away, and you know,

369
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:47.160
I probably I'm gonna go back to a Lutheran church,

370
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.559
even though I may not ever become a member. There's

371
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:51.319
no other church I think I can attend. I think

372
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.519
Lutheranism at least has the law and gospel distinction. I

373
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.240
can't stand their view on infant baptism, but okay, all right,

374
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.559
but I digress. So my friend's sitting there and he's like, well,

375
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.039
when a person is born, they're born like this piece

376
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.720
of paper. He held up a piece of paper. It's nice,

377
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:14.720
it's pure, it's innocent. And then we come along and

378
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:18.839
we crumble it all up with our sin and our disobedience.

379
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.559
And then God comes along and he straightens the paper

380
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.759
back out. And I looked at my friend and I

381
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.839
was like, well, that's why I'm not a part of

382
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.440
that church anymore. That's the most ridiculous thing. So then

383
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:32.839
I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, we are born.

384
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.440
We're born like this. Now I didn't realize at the

385
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.880
time what he just gave to me was a Pelagian view. Hey,

386
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:47.000
we're basically we our will is free because we don't

387
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.440
have a sinful nature. Right. He basically gave me a

388
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:51.839
full blown Polyagian view. He didn't even give me a

389
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.039
Semipleagian view. He basically like, we come out pure, we

390
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.839
come out innocent. And I'm like, no, no, no, we're

391
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.200
born like this piece of paper all crumbled up up.

392
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.359
We're messed up. We have a sinful nature. We are

393
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.519
corrupt from the inside. If anything from the inside is

394
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:09.880
corrupt by us. Now, at the time, I had no

395
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.759
idea that this would be setting me up for Calvinism.

396
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.519
But this is really the distinction, right, because if you

397
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.559
believe man has complete free will, well then you've got

398
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.519
to around you. You got to somehow keep the will

399
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.400
away from the depravity. If depravity is there and it

400
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.000
impacts the will, then the will is not free because

401
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.680
it is influenced limited by that corruption, that sinfulness inside

402
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.839
of us. Right. That means the sinful nature is going

403
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.359
to impact the will. If the will is completely free,

404
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:40.680
it can't be impacted by anything, Right. So I was like, no,

405
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.839
we're all we're like this, We're born like this. We're

406
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:47.640
completely corrupted and there's nothing we can do. God has

407
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:53.119
to do it because we're sinners. So that was kind

408
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.640
of like and then I kind of left everything there.

409
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:57.039
And then the next thing you know, I'm in the

410
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.240
United States military. I find myself in Germany and then

411
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.359
I meet a Southern Baptist and we have this back

412
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.880
and forth debate over baptism and then that's when I'm like, man,

413
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:13.160
I just you're right. I can't support infant baptism with

414
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.599
scripture alone. I can't do it. So when I get

415
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:18.799
back to the States, instead of going to a Southern

416
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:23.920
Baptist church, I find myself and an independent fundamental Baptist church.

417
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.039
Now what I am taught is I am a sinner.

418
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:33.160
I'm depraved, but my will inside of me is somehow

419
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:37.599
isolated from that depravity, so that the will remains free.

420
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.799
You are totally depraved, but your will is isolated, separated

421
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.279
from that depravity, so your will is completely free, all right,

422
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.000
So that's kind of what they taught me. Well that's

423
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:51.440
the first school. Well, yeah, that's the first school I think.

424
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.000
I think I started Grace University in Omaha, Nebraska. Before

425
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.200
I started the Bible, I was going to like three

426
00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.519
schools at the same time. I was going to Grace

427
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:04.039
Universe City, I was going to Twin Cities Baptist Bible Institute,

428
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.440
and I was a student at Harold Camping if you

429
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.559
know anything about Hero Camping Family Radio School, the Bible.

430
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:12.960
Three schools, and I was in the military full time

431
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.400
a right, So three schools taking full classes, full everything. Yeah,

432
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:20.119
it was. It was. I don't know how I did

433
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.759
any of this, but so what happened is at Greace University,

434
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:25.880
I wasn't having any classes really about soteiology. I was

435
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:30.519
taking classes on world religion, classes on uh, I think

436
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.519
church history, on Genesis, so I really wasn't getting into

437
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.720
a lot of soteriological issues. And then our Genesis class

438
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:42.599
just fell into this never ending debate over the philosophy.

439
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:44.599
At time, it was it was, it was insane, Okay.

440
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.559
So the Bible Institute was teaching me this kind of

441
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.720
it's not a kind of not fully a Pelagian. If

442
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.799
you're kind of a semi Pelagian, well you're free, but

443
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:58.160
you're not free. I mean, you're will Is free, but

444
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.440
you're a sinner. And it was really kind of idea.

445
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.880
But they definitely told me Calvinism bad. Calvinism bad. Okay,

446
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:08.000
Calvinism bad to me. If you're a Calvinist, you're basically

447
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.160
you're you're lost, Basically you're going to hell. It's a

448
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.440
false religion, okay, And I'm like, whoa, Okay, this is

449
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.279
pretty serious. At the same time, a family radio School

450
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.200
of the Bible with Carold Camping. This is before he

451
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.839
lost his mind before nineteen ninety four in the church

452
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.079
was coming to an end and leave your church. Before

453
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.160
all of that, he was just basically, you know, reformed, right.

454
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.200
And so I started learning about quote unquote Calvinism. Again,

455
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.279
I don't like the term, but I was learning about

456
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.559
God's sovereign grace and salvation. And it was my daughter's

457
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.279
first birthday. I think it's her first birthday or second birthday.

458
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:45.240
There's a big party at our house. There's video of this,

459
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.640
and there's video like all the women are in the

460
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.200
kitchen and there's a lot of the little kids and

461
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.279
you know, la la lah, And then the camera kind

462
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.000
of goes through and you see the living room. You

463
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.440
see me surrounded by stacks of books because I always

464
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.119
had books. And there's some men of the church and

465
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.160
we're discussing Calvinism and I'm approaching it like, well, hey,

466
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.599
what about I mean, I know, if we're sinners, don't

467
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.960
doesn't impact our nature And if our nature is not free,

468
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.119
then God's going to have to do it. We can't

469
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.400
do it our own. Are we just free to have faith?

470
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:24.200
And does God predestinate us? Does God choose us? And

471
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.079
they didn't really do much arguing. They did just more listening,

472
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.799
and I wasn't necessarily arguing for Calvinism. It was more like, Hey,

473
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.039
this is what I'm studying in school, So what about this?

474
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:36.240
What about this? What about this? What about this? So

475
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.240
the party's over, It's all good. I get a phone

476
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.880
call from the pastor from the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church

477
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.240
where I'm a student in their Bible Institute, and I'm like,

478
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:49.359
you need to come to the church. We need to

479
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:51.599
have a meeting. And I'm like, about what he would

480
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.200
not tell me? So I get in the car, drive

481
00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:57.839
completely unprepared, walk through the front door of the church,

482
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:59.960
go into the pastor's office. And when I walk into

483
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:05.640
the office, guess who is sitting in the office. The

484
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.119
men who were at the birthday party. And they went

485
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:13.519
straight to the pastor and reported me as being a Calvinist.

486
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:16.319
And the next thing you know, I was kicked out

487
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.000
of the Bible Institute. And well then it's a long

488
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.759
story of everything that happened. But what was frustrating in

489
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.079
that meeting is every time the pastor started talking about Calvinism,

490
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.119
he demonstrated he didn't actually understand it, he was misrepresenting it.

491
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.480
I kept trying to correct his misrepresentation, which only then

492
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.799
made it look like I was defending Calvinism, which I

493
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:40.200
really wasn't defending Calvinism. I was defending his misrepresentation of it.

494
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:42.359
Like I, whether you believe it or don't believe it,

495
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:46.640
talk about it correctly, right. So then, so then I

496
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.319
finally could get back in the Bible Institute if I

497
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:56.160
agreed to this really ridiculous statement, God elects according to foreknowledge, Okay,

498
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:59.880
I will agree. So I agreed, I graduated, I got ordained.

499
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.759
I ended up leaving that church and was ordained in

500
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.880
another church. But that's a long story how that all

501
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.160
went down. But which is just a ridiculous statement, because

502
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:10.599
what they really mean is God chooses according to foreseen faith.

503
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.960
In other words, God looks through time you are going

504
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.480
to choose him, so then he chooses you, which doesn't

505
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.720
even make any sense. If I'm choosing him, why is

506
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.640
he choosing me? The whole thing is just it just

507
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.400
just it just becomes maddening. So all of that now,

508
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:31.000
by this point, now I'm a committed Calvinist, the whole tulip.

509
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:34.880
I agree with all of it. Everything, I'm right there

510
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.720
with it. I'm right there with every all all the

511
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.519
letters of the tulip I am committed. And now I'm

512
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.680
like an on fire Calvinist. Calvinism is true and everything

513
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.200
else is wrong, and like and I'm only going to

514
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:51.799
go to a church that's Calvinistic and man so Calvinism.

515
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.960
I was very very very very very very much committed

516
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.839
to it. And then I was very much evolved in

517
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:02.400
the kind of the young refine formed restless movement and

518
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.319
the resurgence of reform theology, and I was going to

519
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:08.400
fight a hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith

520
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.279
and their view on soutariology, obviously, which would be Calvinistic.

521
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.440
And then yes, I mean my church was. I mean

522
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.400
I moved it from I mean the people at the

523
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:21.519
time didn't know what reform theology was, didn't know what

524
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:24.599
calvin they didn't know anything. So I just slowly led

525
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.799
them to the understanding of Calvinism without ever mentioning Calvinism.

526
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:29.480
We just did a verse by verse study of the

527
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.519
Gospel of John. We spent what four years in the

528
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.599
Gospel of John, and by the time it was over,

529
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.079
I'm like, Okay, here's this thing called Calvinism, and they're like,

530
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.160
well we agree with that. Well, okay, yeah, now you do,

531
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.960
because we've gone through scripture to try to demonstrate it.

532
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.440
But I never mentioned Calvinism. I just taught the idea of, well,

533
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.880
we're totally depraved, we cannot do anything, and God sovereignly

534
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.119
chooses us because we would never choose him, because we're

535
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:55.759
dead in our trespasses. It's I taught about Pelagianism and

536
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.279
semi Paalagianism and how I believe that those were erroneous,

537
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.480
heretical views of mankind and that we're totally depraved and

538
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.960
therefore God's gonna salvation is a work of God. Faith

539
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.200
is a gift given to us, et cetera, et cetera,

540
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.119
which led to a Calvinistic view. So that was kind

541
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:14.920
of my where how I got there. Now what happened

542
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.440
is over the years, I just started watching all of

543
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:24.079
the never ending fights Calvinists, non Calvinists, Calvinists, nonunt fight, fight, fight, fight, fight,

544
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:28.920
are argue, church splits, church splits, fight, fight, fight, deceptive

545
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.440
things where a pastor comes in, doesn't tell the church

546
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:35.640
that he's actually a Calvinist, and then manipulates move Sunday

547
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.680
school teachers out of positions so that they can take

548
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:41.599
over the church and make it. Some just saw a

549
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.359
lot of stuff, and finally I was like, oh man,

550
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.920
that that's when I became more disillusioned with a team,

551
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.240
and a theological team. I'm a kid. A lot of

552
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.319
this is just drives me mad. So here's what I

553
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:58.519
want to do. Here's what I want to do. I

554
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.480
want to step back, and I want to approach this

555
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.759
in kind of a different light. Now to the emailer,

556
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.440
by all means you can go by. You can get

557
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.759
the Calvinist books, you can get the non Calvinist books.

558
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.160
You can look at all the scriptures that seem to

559
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.119
support Calvinistic understanding of soutariology, and you can find all

560
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.039
the scriptures that seem to argue against the Calvinistic understanding

561
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.000
of soteriology. I don't know if you're where you're ever

562
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.000
going to end up, but here's what I want you

563
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.359
to do. I want you to take a deep breath

564
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.359
and step back, and here's what I want you to consider.

565
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:36.680
Whether you hold to Calvinism, whether you hold to non Calvinism,

566
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:42.240
this is where you're going to end up. A person

567
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.160
is saved by putting faith in the finished work of

568
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.359
Jesus Christ. A person is not saved who does not

569
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.480
put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. So,

570
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.759
in a Calvinistic system or in a non Calvinistic system,

571
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.079
salvation is depend on putting faith in Jesus Christ. That's

572
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.480
what it is. That person is lost they haven't put

573
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.039
their faith in Jesus Christ. That person is saved, they

574
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.359
put their faith in Jesus Christ. You can fight Calvinism

575
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.160
all day, but the end result, who is saved those

576
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.880
who believe, who's not saved? Those who don't believe. You

577
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.759
can argue Calvinism all day, but whether you're a Calvinist

578
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.880
or not a Calvinist, everyone agrees. Who is saved, ladies

579
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.680
and gentlemen, those who believe, who's not saved? Those who

580
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.160
don't believe. So when it comes down to it, then

581
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:35.920
what's the job of the Calvinist or the non Calvinists

582
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:38.839
to take the Gospel to those who don't believe and

583
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.720
call them to faith in Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter

584
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.480
if you're a Calvinist or non Calvinist. Who's saved those

585
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.000
who believe, who's not saved those who don't believe? What

586
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.400
is the job of the Calvinist and the non Calvinists

587
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.039
take the Gospel to everyone and call them to believe

588
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.759
the end. Now, the rest of the debate is, wait

589
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:01.039
a minute, then, what's the process in and how someone

590
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.000
becomes saved? Who's responsible for them becoming saved? And why

591
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.440
is someone not saved? Like now, you get into these questions,

592
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.119
but at the end, no matter how you add, no

593
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.280
matter how you answer these questions, you can argue all day, well,

594
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.000
it's God, No, it's man, it's God. God did it?

595
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:21.639
Man did it? Predestination non predestination. You can argue all day.

596
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:23.440
Guess what when it comes down to the end, who

597
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.440
is saved those who believe? Who is not saved? Those

598
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:30.639
who don't believe? So what should you do? Worry about

599
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.920
those who don't believe. Now you can debate all the

600
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.119
other things. Obviously, I love theology, so I'm all for

601
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:39.519
having those conversations, But when it comes down to it,

602
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.840
when it's over, you're gonna end up in the same place.

603
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.519
At the core, at the very core, Calvinist and non

604
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:53.519
Calvinists agree that salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ,

605
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:59.159
and both views those who genuinely believe in Christ are

606
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:04.159
considered save and those who reject him remain lost. The

607
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:09.519
key difference lies in how they interpret the process by

608
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:13.280
which a person comes to believe, whether by God's sovereign

609
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:19.519
choice and what's labeled sometimes as irresistible grace. Right, and

610
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:23.159
again that doesn't mean it's irresistible grace. Is we can

611
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.400
get into some people say you can resist it. You

612
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.320
can resist it until the effectual calling versus the general calling.

613
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.079
We could get into all of the distinction, but you

614
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.679
get the idea. So basically, the key difference lies in

615
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:37.360
how they interpret the process by which a person comes

616
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:42.079
to believe, whether by God's sovereign choice and irresistible grace Calvinism,

617
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.280
or by human free will to accept or reject God's

618
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:50.360
offer of grace, which is the non Calvinistic perspective. So

619
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.519
in the Calvinistic perspective, God is the one who does

620
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.119
the saving and the not in the calvinistic view, God

621
00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:59.880
is the one doing the saving, and the non calvinistic

622
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.280
I know they would never say this, they would never

623
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.920
say it's me doing the saving. But in the calvinistic view,

624
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.599
God is the one who does everything he's got to,

625
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:16.719
you know, regenerate, you resurrect you, grant you faith, grant

626
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.280
you the change of mind. God, it's all God. In

627
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.159
the non Calvinistic view, the message is preached and the

628
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:30.599
person changes their mind. The person believes. See. In the

629
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:34.639
Calvinistic view, the change of mind and the faith is

630
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.719
God giving that to them. It's God's gift. And the

631
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.400
non Calvinistic view you do it on your own, which

632
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.840
then leads you to well, then his man depraved or

633
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.320
not depraved. That's why typically in the non Calvinistic view

634
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.880
you end up with some form of Pallagianism, which I

635
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.480
completely reject. See there's all these different layers to it. Now,

636
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.119
despite these differences, the conclusion is the same. Faith in

637
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.599
christis essential for salvation and rejecting of him. Rejection of

638
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:05.880
Him results in being lost. That's what I want you

639
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.679
to see. You can argue about how no, it's God, No,

640
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.960
it's Man. He did it. God did it. You can

641
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.440
argue all about it, but in the end, who's saved

642
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.159
those who believe? Who's lost those who don't believe? So

643
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:19.719
you can see, sometimes you have to ask yourself all

644
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.199
the debating, where do you end up? Well, guess where

645
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.880
you end up? Who saved? Those who believe, who isn't

646
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:32.320
saved those who don't believe. Now, the reason the non

647
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:37.719
Calvinist wants to kind of remove God from the equation,

648
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:40.960
at least to some level, is because they feel like

649
00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:44.239
it turns God. It makes God look evil. It looks like, no,

650
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:48.159
God wants everyone to be saved. God desires everyone to

651
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:50.760
be saved. Now, of course they're quoting from Peter, which

652
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.320
we could look at the verse, but okay, that their

653
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:55.760
view is. Wait, if you say that God doesn't want

654
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.320
everyone saved, that makes God evil, and that makes God mean,

655
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.119
and that makes we've got to get God off the hook. Right, So, hey, no,

656
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.360
the problem is you your free will. It's not God,

657
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.480
it's your free will. And the Calvinist says, no, no, no, no,

658
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.119
you want the credit for it. You're trying to take

659
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.239
credit for your salvation. God gets the credit for the salvation.

660
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.840
So in a roundabout way, both sides are in a

661
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:24.639
sense trying to protect God, right right, Hey, no, no, no,

662
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599
don't blame God for people being lost. It's man's free will.

663
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.440
Get God off the hook. The calvinisty is like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

664
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:34.239
how dare you steal God's glory. How dare you take credit?

665
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.480
It's God who did it. Both sides are trying to

666
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.800
protect God. But in the end, who saved those who

667
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.679
believed in those who are not saved. But let me

668
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.559
make it very clear. All the attempts to try to

669
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:57.679
somehow protect God, they all ultimately fall apart. Because I

670
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:02.360
want you to think about this, whether in a Calvinistic system,

671
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:08.440
whether in a non Calvinistic system, go all the way

672
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:15.440
back to the beginning. See, my struggle is not with

673
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:21.960
Calvinism and non Calvinism. My struggle is with Genesis one.

674
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:31.480
One genus is one one which reads in the beginning God.

675
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.360
And that's where all of my philosophical problems begin. That's

676
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.559
where my mind begins to unravel in the beginning God.

677
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.400
So let's go all the way back, and I want

678
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.400
you to show you that non Calvinist are trying to

679
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.559
get God off the hook. You can't get God off

680
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.320
the hook, ladies and gentlemen, because in the beginning God.

681
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.239
So in the beginning there is God. He's already there.

682
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.400
What do we know about the God who's already there.

683
00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:01.920
He's omniscient, he knows everything from the beginning to the end. Oh,

684
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.280
now now we got a problem. Oh, and he's omnipotent.

685
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:11.280
He's all powerful, he's omniscient, he's omnipotent. But what happens.

686
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:18.079
God creates a being referenced as Lucifer or Satan. He

687
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:22.320
creates this angelic being, knowing that angelic being is going

688
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:27.280
to rebel. That angelic being rebels. God is omnipotent. He

689
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.000
could destroy him, kill him and just wipe him away,

690
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.960
get rid of any rebellious angels and just stop everything

691
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:35.320
right there, it's stop it, just stop it. He could

692
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:39.360
contain it, stop it and eliminate it. But no, no, no, no, no,

693
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:42.519
no no, he does not do that. He allows this

694
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:46.079
fallen angelic being to come to Earth to go after

695
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:49.960
Adam and Eve, whom God created, knowing that Adam and

696
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Eve was going to rebel and going to sin. But

697
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.920
what does he do? Does he stop it? Does he

698
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.320
prevent the very thing that's going to bring the temptation

699
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.000
into the garden. No, he opens up the door and says,

700
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.599
come on in, Satan, And Satan comes in using the

701
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:05.360
form of a serpent, and teep and tips Eve and

702
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.360
they sin. Adam and Eve both sin. Now at that

703
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.039
point God knew that was going to happen even before

704
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:15.880
he created them. Yet he created them. Now Satan has sinned,

705
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.159
Adam is sin, Eve is sin. At every point, he's omnipotent.

706
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.360
He's just he's holy. He could destroy it all. Stop,

707
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.440
he could contain the disease, he could stop it from spreading.

708
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.880
The end, stop it all right here, Satan, you're gone, Adam,

709
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.000
you're gone, Eve, You're gone. It's all done. And don't

710
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:37.519
tell me he needed something, because God is perfect in himself.

711
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.760
He didn't need anything. There's perfect fellowship amongst the Trinity.

712
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:44.199
He's good to go. But what does he do? Oh no, no, no,

713
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:46.679
no no. He lets them leave the garden. He's like,

714
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.440
take this new contagion that you are infected with, and

715
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:52.760
just walk out of the garden. And now here the

716
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.639
world is impacted by the fall, everything creation, everything now

717
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.840
is impacted. And they bring their contagion of sin and

718
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.880
to the world. They have two children, Cain and Abel.

719
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.519
What happens murder? Why does murder happen? Well, because they

720
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.599
are sinners. Oh wait, and then Satan he just lets

721
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.559
him leave the garden and the serpent is punished. Satan

722
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.360
can just go do wherever he wants. Satan is roaming about.

723
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:19.800
He doesn't get rid of satan. He doesn't get rid

724
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.280
of sin, and he lets it continue and it spreads,

725
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.199
and it spreads and it gets so bad, and it

726
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:28.480
gets so bad he wipes everyone off the earth except

727
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.639
for the people in the ark. But guess what. The

728
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:34.639
people in the ark have the same contagion sin and

729
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:36.760
they get off the ark and boom, next thing you know,

730
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.519
people are drunk, no clothes, and then boom sins and

731
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.159
sins and sins and sin, sins. God knew it was

732
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.440
going to happen. So you can say, well, man's free will,

733
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.559
man's free will. Well who gave free will? God? Who

734
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.320
knew what was going to happen to free will? God?

735
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.679
God knew how many people would reject, how many people

736
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.559
would die, how many people would go to hell, and

737
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:56.559
he did nothing to stop it. So even if you

738
00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:03.920
hold free will, it still goes back to God. So

739
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:06.639
either you have a God who decrees everything to happen,

740
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.400
or you have a God who's just sitting back going

741
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:10.320
I didn't decree any of this that happened, but I'm

742
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.840
not going to do anything to stop it. I'm just

743
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.920
going to let it happen. No matter what you do,

744
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:18.039
you can't get God off the hook. You can't get

745
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:27.440
God off the hook. There is a significant theological tension

746
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.599
that both Calvinist and non Calvinists face. Regardless of the

747
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:35.960
view one holds, both ultimately wrestle with the fact that God,

748
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.079
who is omniscient and omnipotent, created a world where he

749
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:44.039
knew sin would enter humanity. He knew sin would enter,

750
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:47.079
He knew humanity would fall, and that some would reject

751
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:49.559
him and be lost. He knew it from the beginning.

752
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:51.599
These people are going to be saved. These people are

753
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.400
going to be lost. Sin is going to enter into

754
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:55.639
the world. He knew from the beginning what was going

755
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:01.440
to happen. Non Calvinists may emphasize human responsibility and free

756
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:04.719
will and rejecting or accepting God's offer of salvation, but

757
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:08.679
this does not eliminate God's foreknowledge of every individual's ultimate

758
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.599
decision or his choice to create a world where these

759
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.400
outcomes would unfold. Calvinist, on the other hand, see God's

760
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:19.880
sovereignty in a more direct way, believing that everything, including

761
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.599
who would believe or not, unfolds according to his eternal

762
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.559
decrees at the very core Both perspectives acknowledged that God

763
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:33.960
allowed or ordained a reality where sin, rebellion, and the

764
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:39.960
potential for eternal separation from Him would exist and does exist.

765
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.559
This means that at the very least, God knowingly created

766
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:49.880
a world in which these tragic possibilities were real. Whether

767
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:54.199
God merely permitted the events to unfold are directly decreed them.

768
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:58.920
Both views affirm that none of it occurs outside of

769
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:05.199
His knowledge or allowance, and other words, neither side Calvinist

770
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:10.440
or non Calvinists can escape the thiological implication that God

771
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.079
created a world with a specific outcome in mind, even

772
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:17.840
if he provided humanity with real agency, or if he

773
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.719
determined every event in advance, no matter which way you go,

774
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.719
free will non free will, God is the one who

775
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:27.639
allowed it, created it, knowing exactly what was going to happen.

776
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:34.400
He knew it. This shared foundation often brings both Calvinists

777
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:38.480
and non Calvinists perspectives to a similar conclusion. God's purpose

778
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:43.480
in creation and redemption remains mysterious and complex, balancing his

779
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:50.239
sovereignty with human responsibility or accountability. The bottom line is,

780
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.440
if you're like I don't like predestination because you want

781
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:56.159
to get God off the hook. But you can't get

782
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.519
God off the hook. God's on. There's no way to

783
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.719
remove God from this. He knew everything in the beginning. God,

784
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:06.559
he's there, and then the next word created. Well, the

785
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:09.360
minute he creates, he knows exactly what he's creating. He

786
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.880
knows exactly what's going to happen. He knows exactly how

787
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.000
many people are dying, going to go to hell. And

788
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.159
he does either he and if you say, well, he

789
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:18.480
gave free will, he's the one who gave free will

790
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.159
knowing that this many people are gonna die and burn

791
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:27.360
in hell. And he said, well, he didn't want robots.

792
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:32.800
Why not. It's not like he needed robots or non robots.

793
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:36.920
He didn't need anything. Well, he wanted people to love

794
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.559
him on their own. What does it even mean. He

795
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:46.639
doesn't need anybody's love. He's perfect in himself. So his

796
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:50.880
need for love is your explanation for why millions upon

797
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:53.400
millions of people burn in hell. I mean, like, that's

798
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.199
that's the most God needs my love freely. That's why

799
00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.159
he makes it so all these people can go to hell.

800
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:03.440
That's that's I don't think that helps their answers any problem.

801
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.360
See the bottom line, is when it comes to Calvinism, predestination,

802
00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:14.360
non predestination, you're gonna end up with the same thing.

803
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.880
Who saved those who believed, who's not saved those who

804
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.199
don't believe? What of both? Whether you're a Calvinist or

805
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.960
a non Calvinist, What does the world need. They need

806
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.599
to hear the Gospel. They need to hear that they're

807
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:28.880
a sinner and that their only hope is in the

808
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:31.280
finished work of Jesus Christ, and by faith alone, his

809
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:35.360
imputed righteousness is accredited to their account, and they stand

810
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.079
before God holy not because of what they do, but

811
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.639
because of what He does. That's what we can agree on.

812
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.239
You can get into all these little debates no no,

813
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.920
no free will. No free will. Now, just remember if

814
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.039
you get into the free will argument, because if you

815
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:53.320
reject Calvinism, you're going to the free will argument. Just remember,

816
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.559
for the will to be free either, there is no

817
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.440
depravity in man. So you go with full bloom Pallagianism,

818
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.679
go with some weird idea that the will is actually

819
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.199
free from the depravity. And if the will is free

820
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:09.320
from the depravity, that means people freely can choose to

821
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.480
be perfect. If the will is completely free. Then everyone

822
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.480
could freely choose to be perfect and to keep God's

823
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.840
law with or without God, because the will is free.

824
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.840
If the will is free before salvation, then the will

825
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.559
is free after salvation. That means people who have a

826
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.880
free will can freely choose to be perfect and keep

827
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.880
God's law perfectly. No one's ever accomplished. That would put

828
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:35.760
forth great argument that no one has free will, because

829
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.559
if you have free will, you could freely just choose

830
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:39.840
to obey God. If you can't obey God, what's keeping

831
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.440
you from doing so? Well, then you're not free. See,

832
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.440
the non Calvinist view requires a free will. Understanding what

833
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:50.800
the will is. I can test the will being free, okay,

834
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.800
just keep God's law perfectly. You can't whether then your

835
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.440
will is not free the end But to me, we

836
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.719
can get into all of these arguments, but the end

837
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:05.639
result is Calvinist, non Calvinist. Who's saved? Those who believe?

838
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.480
Who's not saved? Those who don't believe? What do they

839
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:12.320
need the gospel? Now it'll get into like, but why

840
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:14.239
bring the gospel to the person they may not be

841
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.639
the elect? And why bring the gospel to that person

842
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:21.920
they may not believe it's just who can just bring

843
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.920
the Gospel to everyone and who believes believes? If you

844
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.519
want to get into these never ending disputes, you just

845
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:37.239
get nowhere. See people worry about God's predestination and soteriology, right,

846
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.519
that's where everybody gets worried about. Well wait a minute,

847
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.519
forget God's predestination and soteriology. God created a world knowing

848
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.599
all this was going to happen. So if his knowledge

849
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.039
proceeds it happening, isn't it then has to happen according

850
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:57.159
to his knowledge. Well that's a that's a deep question.

851
00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:58.800
But the point is he knew it was going to

852
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.199
happen and allows it to happen. And then you either

853
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.800
God is not controlling it or God is controlling it.

854
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.119
And these have deeper issues than salvation. This is how

855
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:11.559
everything else happens in the world. Now, Yeah, are there

856
00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:16.079
scriptures that mention this concept? Well, we have this. Blessed

857
00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:18.039
be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ,

858
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.760
who has blessed us with spiritual blessings and heavenly places

859
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.840
in Christ, according as He hath chosen us in Him

860
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:27.159
before the foundation of the world, that we should be

861
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:33.840
holy and without blame. Before him in love, having predestinated

862
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.679
us onto the adoption of children. But then other people

863
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.440
would say, for you know, go to other scriptures. For

864
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:41.039
God so loved the world that he gave his only

865
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:44.840
begotten son, that whosoever believed on him should not perish

866
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:48.480
by to have everlasting life. God desires all to repent

867
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.039
and believe. And of course that's ripping that versal very

868
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.039
much out of context, but you get the idea. So

869
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:55.679
everyone will go to their scriptures and they'll debate, and

870
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.519
they'll debate. But guess where it ends. As I stated

871
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:04.880
now multiple times, who saved those who believed? Who's not

872
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.599
saved those who don't believe? What do the people who

873
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.840
don't believe need the gospel? This issue of God's sovereignty

874
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.719
and his predestination and his knowledge, this goes all the

875
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:21.320
way back to Genesis one. And listen, both sides are

876
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.639
trying to protect God. Right. The non Calvinists is saying, look, look,

877
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.599
I'm not going to blame God for one of these

878
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.639
people don't believe, or why some people believe in some

879
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.760
people don't. No, no, no, that's horrible. So I got

880
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.719
to get God off the hook. And then the Calvinists

881
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.639
is like, how dare you steal from God's glory? God

882
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:39.719
gets the glory. You're not going to take any credit.

883
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.519
Will Both sides try to protect God. I understand that desire.

884
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:46.599
But ladies and gentlemen, you go all the way back

885
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:49.639
to Genesis one. One. There's no getting God off the hook.

886
00:51:51.639 --> 00:52:03.760
There's nine, there's nine.

887
00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:08.239
The gospel is to be offered to everyone. It's to

888
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:15.960
be preached everywhere to everyone. Those who believe are saved,

889
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:21.480
those who reject are not. Now we can get into

890
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:24.760
a lengthy discussion about well, why why do they believe?

891
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:31.920
Why did they not believe? Now? My personal belief, yeah,

892
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.760
I hold to a calvinistic view. I hold to a

893
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:38.840
calvinistic view because I reject Pallagianism. I believe that the

894
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:42.440
will is not completely free. The will is not free

895
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:44.159
because if the will was free, I could just choose

896
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.280
to be holy. Even as a saved person. My will

897
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.280
is not free, or I could just choose to be holy.

898
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:51.800
There's something still impacting my will. It's my sinful nature. Well,

899
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:56.079
because my sinful nature is there, then I know I

900
00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:59.760
need God to do the saving. God has to choose me.

901
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:03.199
God has to save me. God has to grant me faith.

902
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:10.800
God has to grant me the change of mind. Now,

903
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.199
I know that's not a perfect answer. You said, well,

904
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.920
which one should you believe? I'm not telling you which

905
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:18.280
one to believe. I'm just telling you that when you

906
00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:21.039
It's like with limited atonement, people can get an argument.

907
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.880
Did Christ die for everyone? Or did he only die

908
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:26.920
for the elefe No, he died for every single person. No,

909
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:29.960
he only died for the elect. Would everyone calm down?

910
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:36.719
Who saved those who believe? Who? Is Christ's death sufficient

911
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.559
for everyone who believes? Yes, for everyone believes Christ died

912
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:43.920
paid for their sins? Okay, if Christ died for the

913
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.559
sins of everyone in the world, are they all saved? Well, no,

914
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.119
only those who believe. So we can argue about did

915
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:51.440
Christ die for everyone? Or did Christ only die for

916
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.559
the elect? You can have that argument all day. But

917
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:56.679
the end result, who saved those who believe? Who's not

918
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:00.840
saved those who don't believe? There's no sug Well that

919
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:03.840
person believes, Well, Jesus didn't die for them. Nobody would

920
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:09.920
say that for everyone who believes he died for But no,

921
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:11.840
he died for everyone in the world. You can say

922
00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.960
that but he died and paid for the sins of

923
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.960
everyone in the world. Is everyone saved? No, okay, So

924
00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:24.400
then him dying for everyone in the world doesn't accomplish anything.

925
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:28.360
It only makes salvation. I guess you could say possible.

926
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.519
But the point is is anyone who believes can be saved,

927
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.840
everyone believes that, Calvinist or non Calvinists. Anyone who believes

928
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.239
it will be saved, not can be, will be. And

929
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:41.280
if they are saved, then obviously Christ paid for their

930
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.440
sins and died for their sins. So you get into

931
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.440
these deep questions when you really boil it down, what

932
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:51.519
does it come down to that person believes, well, praise God,

933
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:54.159
he saved. Christ died for him. His sins have been

934
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:56.920
removed as far as the ess from the west, his

935
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.880
sins have been forgiven, has been covered in the blood

936
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:02.000
of Jesus Christ. Righteousness has been imputed to his account.

937
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:04.559
He stands before God holy, imperfect, even though in practical,

938
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:15.079
everyday life he's still a sinner. So I think a

939
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:19.239
lot of the disputes just distract us. Now, as a

940
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:25.639
good Bible student, whenever you're studying the Bible and you

941
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:29.000
come across passages that seem to go one way or

942
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:33.239
the other. Yeah, then you have to deal with the issue.

943
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.400
You have to deal with the issue as far as

944
00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.440
the text is concerned. But just note, no matter how

945
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.559
you can deal with the text, however you deal with it,

946
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:44.480
there's going to be another side that's going to disagree

947
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:52.199
with you using the exact same text, which can be maddening. Now,

948
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.519
am I saying ignore all theological disputes. I'm not saying that.

949
00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:59.119
Sometimes you just got to step back and reduce it

950
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:02.079
and go Okay, no matter which way I go on

951
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:05.679
this debate, where do I end up? Let me repeat

952
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.480
it now, for like the five hundredth time, in this debate,

953
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:14.000
where do you end up? Who's saved those who believe,

954
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:19.000
who's not saved those who don't believe? What do those

955
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:28.199
who don't believe need the gospel? What happens if they

956
00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:34.719
believe they will be saved? Who's the elect who's the

957
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:40.079
chosen those who believe? Who are those not chosen? Or

958
00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:46.480
elect those who don't believe? Well, that's not fair. Well,

959
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:48.840
guess what's going to be the end result, Whether they're

960
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:51.360
chosen not chosen, whether it's free will or not free will?

961
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:58.559
That they're going to go to the same hell. Now

962
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:00.519
you may make you feel better that God gets off

963
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:02.119
the hook, but again, God's the one who gave the

964
00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:03.760
free will, knowing that that person was going to use

965
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.400
the free will not to believe and burn in hell,

966
00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:12.960
yet allow them to be born and be created. I mean,

967
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.159
no matter how you look at it, God still involved

968
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:17.880
in it. He either knew it was going to happen,

969
00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.719
or he decreed it to happen. Unless you go with

970
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:23.639
open theism, and now God doesn't know, and now you

971
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:26.400
begin to systematically destroy God as being God, which you

972
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:33.679
end up to a different problem. The email question is great,

973
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:36.199
My answer to it is not so great because it

974
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.199
kind of leaves you with, well, so what's the right

975
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:44.639
answer I think in this particular case. I mean, you know,

976
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:48.559
I'm obviously a Calvinist. I hold that that view right,

977
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.559
But it goes more to I reject Pelagianism semi plagianism

978
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.360
because I can I can tangibly prove that a will

979
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:57.719
is not free. I can prove that right. If you

980
00:57:57.760 --> 00:57:59.679
tell me the will is free, then I'll just say, well,

981
00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:02.360
then be be holy as God is holy, and keep

982
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:04.199
all of his commandments. Well I know you're not gonna

983
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:06.199
do that. You can't do that, so you're going to fail.

984
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:08.239
So then your will is not free the end. Okay,

985
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:10.519
So all right, I can already disprove that. Now that

986
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:12.840
then leads me to the idea of total depravity. And

987
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.119
if I'm totally depraved, then I cannot save myself. Then

988
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:18.199
faith is and faith is a gift from God. Okay,

989
00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.679
then I'm gonna lead to a more calvinistic viewpoint. But

990
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:22.760
the bottom of line is whether you're a Calvinist or

991
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.159
not a Calvinist. I'm gonna say it again, where do

992
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:31.679
we end up. Who's saved, the person who believes, who's

993
00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:35.280
not saved, the person who rejects. What does the person

994
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:40.280
reject need the gospel? Who should the Gospel go to

995
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:47.920
every single person? And whosoever believes shall be saved. The

996
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:51.760
Calvinists will say that person believes because God guarranted them

997
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:54.599
the faith. The non Calvinists will say that person believed

998
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:57.199
because they chose to believe on their own free will.

999
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:11.400
But the bottom line is the person is saying by belief. Now,

1000
00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.920
there may be times when we come to a certain

1001
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:19.039
text where I think to reject the calvinistic understanding, you know,

1002
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:24.639
creates other problems. But there's probably times that we come

1003
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.599
to a certain text non Calvinists would say, well, if

1004
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.280
you interpret that in a Calvinistic way, that creates other

1005
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.559
biblical interpretive problems. Every side's going to claim that. So

1006
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:41.079
there you go fifty nine minutes. I don't know if

1007
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:42.960
that was helpful. I don't know if it was beneficial.

1008
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.199
I know it's probably not the answer you wanted. But

1009
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.840
I wasn't going to come here with a full like

1010
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:49.559
I'm going to defend Calvinism or or I'm going to

1011
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.880
argue against Calvinism. I just want you to show that

1012
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.639
when you boil it down, you kind of end up

1013
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.480
in the same place. And no matter how much you

1014
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.440
want to get God off the hook, there's no getting

1015
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.960
God off the hook none. Because he was there in

1016
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.519
the beginning, knowing exactly what was going to happen, and

1017
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:12.079
having the power to stop it or allow it. That's

1018
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:14.920
a million miles away from even getting to whether he

1019
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:18.519
decreed it and guiding it and controlling it. Just the

1020
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:20.280
fact that he has the power to stop it and

1021
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:22.440
knew it was going to happen and set everything in

1022
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:26.960
motion and did nothing to stop it. That's the thing

1023
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.119
that should keep you up at night, because I don't

1024
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:33.960
know that I'll never truly understand that. All right, I

1025
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.559
hope this is beneficial to some. I know the Calvinists

1026
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.440
are going to be mad at me, the non Calvinists

1027
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.079
are going to be mad at me. Everyone's going to

1028
01:00:40.119 --> 01:00:42.719
be mad at me. That's great. But the end result,

1029
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:46.440
ladies and gentlemen, is who's saved those who believe, who's

1030
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:50.360
not saved those who don't believe? Who did Christ die

1031
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.519
for those who are saved? Okay? Because Christ's death for

1032
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.079
those who are not saved is of no value to

1033
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.280
them because they're going to go to hell even though

1034
01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.079
that he died for. So whether you believe in limited

1035
01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:04.280
or unlimited atonement, you still end up with these same issues.

1036
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:08.960
So all right, thanks for listening. Everyone, have a great night.

1037
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:10.000
God bless