Are Christians Dead To Self? Pt 1

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Good afternoon, everyone. It is Monday, April the fourteenth, twenty twenty five. It is currently four forty five pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, I was debating with myself what should I call this episode? How should I move this forward? Because it's a continuation of all of the things we've been talking about in regards to well our Christians truly satisfied because we teach that Jesus is all we need and if we have Jesus and we have we have full satisfaction because Jesus satisfies every need.

0:57 That's what Christians claim. I've chow that I've tried to talk about are we really satisfied? And so in some ways, since this is a continuation of that, I should just continue with calling this are Christians Satisfied? And make this part four. But I think this is a pivotal turning point because we're going to keep talking about this idea of satisfaction, but we're going to turn to something very almost fundamental to Christian teaching, and that's this idea of well dying to self. So I'm going to call this are Christians really dead? And hopefully this is all going to make sense. I think we'll have to do maybe two parts, three parts on this subject. So we're going to kind of start where we have been and then move this forward because in this episode, this is an episode that isn't about This is not about debating theology.

2:05 This is an episode and all of this discussion about are Christians satisfied? It's really about being honest in fact, Over and over and over. I find that a lot of my episodes are about being truly honest with ourselves as Christians, getting away from the way Christianity is sold, getting away from all of the of how Christians pretend to be something they are not. There's so much pretense, there's so much pretend, there's so much dress up in Christianity. This is about stripping that all away and being very real and being very honest. This episode is about being about being honest about what it means to be human.

2:46 This is an episode about us being honest about the deep needs we all carry. This is about us being honest about what happens when those needs aren't met. And this is about being brutally honest about the con fusing solution Christianity so often offers, which is, die to yourself. That's the solution. Hey, you've got needs. But if you can't meet these needs, just die to yourself. What if that solution isn't just incomplete? What if it's actually harmful? And what if the Gospel offers something far more honest, far more human, and far more helpful. Can we actually get to the gospel or has the Church and Christianity so hidden the Gospel but that nobody ever gets to the true thing. We offer all of these other things that we may somehow call it the gospel, but we've so added to that I think in many cases what we present is actually not even the real Gospel anymore.

3:55 So I'm gonna drive I'm gonna start this by really trying to drive some very important concepts here right because I want us to start with an unshakable reality. I want us to start with an unshakable reality. It is real of you, it's real of you, it's real of me, it's real of anybody you know. And that is we are all built. We are all created with deep needs. I want to drive this home. We are creatures of design and dependence. We need as human beings, we have this need of love, this need of safety, this need of intimacy, this need of belonging, this need of purpose, of pleasure, of connection, of identity. Whether you like it or not, this is an unshakable human reality. We are built with deep needs. We are creatures of design and dependence.

4:56 We need love, we need safety, we need intimacy, we need belonging, we need purpose, we need pleasure, we need connection, we need identity. And in many these needs in and of themselves are not selfish or part of the created human experience. And when these needs go unmet, they affect us psychologically, they affect us emotionally, they affect us physically, and they impact us spiritually. I'm going to give you some just brief examples. A child without love doesn't just feel lonely. They typically will develop behavioral disorders. An adult without meaning or connection many cases, find themselves turning to addiction or escapism or spiritual despair. And we've talked about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We've talked about all of that.

5:57 We've talked about the idea of self determination. We've talked about. We've talked about all of those things in all of the previous episodes, so I'm not gonna go back over all of those again, but we've really tried to drive those points home. So I want to just this unshakable human reality, the way we are created. We have these needs, they are deep inside of us, and if the needs don't are not met, problems begin. So that's an unshakable reality. Another thing I want you to understand is this desperate attempt to meet these real needs. But typically, and more frequently than we may want to admit, in wrong ways. See, sin isn't always just some random rebellion. It's just like, Oh, you just woke up some day and I'm just gonna rebel here. I'm just going to do this. It's often a short cut satisfaction. Lust equals a desire for connection and intimacy. Greed equals a desire for security, rage equals a desire for justice or power. Gluttony equals a desire for pleasure and comfort. In many cases, sin is a misdirection of legitimate longing, and this is at least something that has to be discussed In many cases, sin is a misdirection of a legitimate longing, a legitimate need, a

7:30 legitimate desire. The desire, the need, the longing may be legitimate, but sin is the misdirection of that legitimate longing. And a lot of times this is not discussed in Christianity. Christianity sometimes is very surface, very much just throw wants to throw a band aid on things and Christianity and Christianity's answer is almost always the same, just stop it, don't do it, Just stop it. Read your bible more, go to church, more, pray more, do this, don't do this. We don't ever want to get into the deeper areas here we are built. We are created with these needs. When those needs go unmet, problems begin and we spend a good portion of our lives and a desperate attempt to meet these real needs. We become obsessed, preoccupied, focused on getting these needs met. And then add in, well, we have a sinful nature, and the sinful nature doesn't just desire wrongly, it distorts everything. We are born not just with needs, but with a will that wants to meet them apart from God's word, design and timing, so we have built in needs they're there, there's no denying it.

8:49 Sin in many cases is simply the misdirection of these legitimate longings. And then you add into that mix an absolute depraved nature. That deprave nature not only will desire what God doesn't know, what God condemns or God forbids or God prohibits. Not only will the sinful nature want the wrong thing, it will even then want to pursue the right thing with the wrong way, or to try to get the right thing in the wrong way. You mix all of this together, we've got we've got a problem. We've got a major, major problem. So now listen, I want you to see this. We're painting a picture that we're not just needy, and we're very needy at our very essence, because we have all these needs and all these desires and all these ones. But we're corrupted, we're twisted, we're sinful. So we've got longings and desires, and if they don't get met, problems began. And then so sin and one essence of sin is the misdirection of legitimate longing.

9:54 But then we have a sinful nature who then doesn't even have legitimate longing or will take the legitimate longing and tell you to go fulfill that legitimate longing and in a way that goes against God's word. Is that is a very piologically sound understanding of who we are as human beings that the church in many cases doesn't really want to talk about deeply. So how does the church typically respond to this? How does the church typically respond to this? Well, the Church's response is usually, now, there's a lot, there's a lot when it comes to the church. So I'm not trying to reduce that this is the only thing, but this is the one I really want to focus on here, right because obviously I'm calling this, you know, our Christians really dead to theirselves?

10:43 Are Christians really dead? Because this is where the church goes. So the church takes that reality. Again. I don't know how much more I can stress that reality, but that's the reality. That is the reality that I have tried to paint and three what three hours plus and discussing Christians and satisfaction. We have these desires. Sin is the misdirection for this. These longings may be right, but sin is the misdirection. It's attempting to fulfill these longings in an incorrect way. Add in a sinful nature, and the sinful nature not only has wrong desires, it will tell you to go get the right desires the wrong way.

11:24 And so we are in a mess. We're in a total, complete mess as human beings. And the Church then kind of steps in. Christianity sees this chaos. It sees all of this messed up situation. It sees the internal war, it sees the need and the sin, it sees all of that. It realizes, man, things look, this is what God's word says, and we well, whether Christianity wants to truly diagnose the problem. It acknowledges that things aren't right. So Christianity will again, there's many ways that will approach it. Well.

12:05 One of the ways Christianity, especially when dealing with Christians, will step in and say something like this, just die to yourself, just deny your desires, stop following you and follow Christ. That sounds so good, right, that sounds wonderful. Just die to yourself, deny your desires, stop following yourself and follow Christ. That sounds good. It sounds biblical, it sounds scriptural, it sounds philological. And the Church will say amen. So the Church will look at all these people who have these built in desires that they didn't ask for, that they're born with. You have these desires, right, and then you're use And if if you don't get these desires mad, everything you're not only you're not satisfied. It's going to cause all kinds of problems, physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, all kinds of problems. So then many cases, our sin is simply us pursuing legitimate desires but the wrong way.

13:10 And then you add into that our sinful desire, our sinful nature. We're a mess. And the church says, okay, okay, okay. Now the church some cases won't really acknowledge how deeply this goes, but they'll just say, hey, die to yourself, take up your cross and die, and then all the problems are solved, right, I mean, if I could truly die to myself. Can you imagine what life would look like if we could truly die to ourselves, if we could truly deny ourselves, if we could truly stop following ourselves and following Christ. It does sound biblical, it does sound spiritual, but what does that actually mean? What does it look like? And has anyone else I've ever really done it? So we've talked about Christians. Are they really satisfied?

14:13 My emphatic answer is absolutely not, because if you only miss one or two, if someone's just missing a couple of those things, they're not really satisfied. We talked about a lot of the hypocrisy and Christianity about this, but now let's just take the time to deal with this whole subject of dying to self. And we're going to approach this in kind of a long and winding road because I like to bring you into the conversations that I have about these things that I've been thinking about so late at night, early morning, right, I don't even know, four in the morning, three in the morning. The next thing, you know, I find myself thinking about this dying to self, dying to self, dying to self, all of these issues.

14:58 And I'm like, well, let me talk to artificial intelligence. So I said, hey, AI, we need to talk. And so I'm going to share much of my conversation with artificial intelligence and regards to this subject because we spend a lot of time working on this, all right. So I started by asking, basically saying this to AI. And I usually write like long paragraphs, So I said this to AI. If we take the die deny and follow the way most of Christianity teaches it. So die to self, deny self, follow Christ, don't follow self. If we take this the way most of Christianity teaches it, doesn't it all become very subjective. The more of the needs and desires you can have met in this life, the less you have to die to yourself, the less you have to deny yourself, the less you have to stop following yourself.

16:01 But for those missing many of those things, they have to die, die to self, deny self, and struggle not to follow in a far greater way. Now, why did I start the conversation here, Because in our conversation about are Christians satisfied? I think there's a game that Christians play, and I think it's ridiculous, and Christians never want to acknowledge this. But Christianity likes to sell this idea that, hey, when you come to Jesus and you get Jesus, you've got all that you need, all your needs are met, you've got everything, you are satisfied, You're never going to hunger and thirst again. You've got everything, you don't need anything else. You could lose everything and have perfect peace and be completely content because you've got Jesus. You preach that in church, everybody says amen. But then you look at the congregation. You look at the makeup of the congregation, and almost the majority of the congregation, without fail, they're married.

17:05 Many of them are young couples or they're now much older, and you kind of look at that. You know, like, uh huh, let me see, you're married, you have you have a house, you have a car, you have a job. Especially the younger couples, you're right in that stage where you're working on this and you're and you're excited about your career. You're trying to advance in your career. You maybe trying to get an additional education. You've got goals, you've got purpose, you've got desire, you've got excitement. For the most part, you've got your health. You've got health, you've got family, you've got relationship, you've got intimacy, you have physical uh, pleasure, You've got all of these things.

17:48 And then you're gonna be like, Jesus is all I need. Jesus satisfies You talk a big game, but you got everything. You got everything, And then you look to everyone else who may not have those things. And remember what happens as soon as you don't have one of the things in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, one of those basic desires not being met. Someone things start going wrong mentally, emotionally, physically, things are not going to be right for them, and the Churchill will be, Hey, all you need is Jesus. You should be satisfied. But it's such a game. Oh yeah, now you say that. Now you say that because you've got almost everything on Mileslow's hierarchy of needs. You've almost got it all. So stop talking a big game like you've got it that. Oh you're just so comfortable with Jesus.

18:36 Of course you're comfortable with Jesus because you've got almost every need met. Now go talk to that person alone, alone, No, no physical intimacy, no emotional intimacy, no, no, no physical intimacy, intimacy, no physical satisfaction. They got this. They don't have this. They don't have financial stability. They're missing this, they're missing that. They don't have this they're suffering of physically. Now go tell them, Jesus is all you need. Do you not hear yourself? You're telling someone who's missing. They don't have half of what you have. That maybe down sixty seventy percent of what you don't have. Now you're telling them be content because they've got Jesus what you sit around having everything on Moslow's hierarchy of needs. Just stop talking.

19:30 And I talked about how this plays out within Christianity right now. A lot of times what happens is you'll have people they get about fifteen, sixteen seventeen, Well, now they got desires, they got wants, they got desires, they got wants, right, and the church will say, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't don't. You can't fulfill those desires. You can only do it God's way. You can only do it God's way. And so in many cases that leads to people getting married at a very very young age because hey, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that, so you gotta get married. So maybe they get married at eighteen nineteen. Many cases, these marriages completely implode and fall apart. Okay, but because in many cases they're getting married because of oh, well, it's better to get married than to burn, So I gotta do this. So that I don't commit sin. So it's all about getting married so that you don't commit sin. But in many cases you rush into the marriage just so that you're not committing sin. And in many cases then you're yeah, you don't even know if you made the right decision, but hey, you made the right decision because you didn't commit sin. Well, this leads to sometimes while all the problems that can arise later. But in many cases what happens is people they will struggle between maybe fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty twenty one. They're struggling, maybe with premarital sex, pornography, this, maybe they're dating an unbeliever. There's all of these issues that they're struggling with, right, they're struggling. They're struggling. They're struggling, and what do many of them do. They leave the church.

20:55 They pull back from the church. They're not involved in the church, avoiding church discipline, avoiding any problems, avoiding any difficulty. They go away because they have all these needs and all these desires that are not being met and they can't be mad unless they end up in the right context. And what do many of them do. They disappear only to show back up, only to show back up once they get married. Now they're married, they have a kid on the way, and all of a sudden, Jesus is important. Jesus is my savior. Oh I was off in soin, but now I've got Jesus and he's all I need. And I love my Jesus. And they talk a big game, and they act all spiritual sitting in the pew. In many cases they're arrogant and condemning and judgmental. Well, of course, now, of course you can talk a big game now, right.

21:48 You're not looking for intimacy. You get to have intimacy. You're not looking for physical pleasure. You get to experience it. You've got emotional intimate, physical intimacy. You got a family, you got a job, you've got a career. You're pursuing this, you're excited about that. You've got some friends, You've got this. You come to church because you can meet more friends and have more community, which just happens to be a need. But now you can meet it in the church. You get to go do activities, and you've got hobbies, and you got this, and you're buying this, and maybe you're working on your house or you're getting a new house. You've got goals, you got purpose, you got passion, you got zeal, you got your health, and now all of a sudden you're the good Christian, but everyone else you're like no, no, no, no, no no no no no no no.

22:35 So I just think it's all there's so much a facade here, and nobody wants to ever address this. So then I was in a take. That's why I then asked this question. Well, wait, if we take this, Oh, you've got to die to yourself, deny yourself, and no longer follow your follow self the way most Christians teach it. Well, then it becomes very subjective. The more of your needs on Massolow's hierarchy of needs, the more they are met, The more of those desires you can have met in life. Well, then the less you have to die, the less you have to pay, the less it's going to cost you. The less you have to deny, the less you have to stop following self. So I asked Ai about this, and AI said, this, You've just hit on one of the most profound, underrecognized problems, and how the modern church preaches that die, deny, follow message and I was like, whoa, AI just says, I just stumbled upon one of the most profound, underrecognized problems and how the modern church presents die to self, deny self, stop following self. AI then puts it together in a paragraph. When deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Jesus as taught as an ongoing lifestyle requirement for Christians. Without the framework of law, gospel, and positional identity in Christ, then yes, it becomes entirely subjective, inconsistently applied, and often deeply tied to one's life's circumstances.

24:12 Let me give you an example. Let me give you an example. Give you an example. Now, many Christians are going to debate this, but I think I look, when it comes to we'll just get blunt here when it comes to say physical attraction or sexual desire. Right, let's just just go with me, at least hypothetically. You may disagree with this, but I think you can just say people have different physical desires and different levels of desires and different needs, and nobody can just say, well, where did this come from? Why do I It's a part of us. So let's just say because people are born sinful, that many of let's say, so many of those desires could be then sinful. I mean it makes sense because we're sinners, so it means many of our desires and any of our wants could be sinful because we're born sinful.

25:00 So because people are born sinful, then I don't think it's out of the realm. Philologically speaking, I think it's very possible, and I think it's even probable that then some could be born with desires of a same sex attraction. That's all. They're not attracted at all to the opposite sex. They can't even imagine physical intimacy with someone of the opposite sex. They're not attracted to it, do not have any desire, but they still have the same level of desire for intimacy and for connection and for physical pleasure, just like you do for someone of the opposite sex. Now, they're born this way. They didn't ask for this, they're born this way, and they have this because the need and desire for intimacy, connection and physical pleasure. We're all born with it. I mean, it well develops obviously when we reach a certain age and that it become for love and intimacy. That's there, But you get the idea.

25:55 The sexual desire obviously then becomes more recognized as we get older puberty and you understand, I'm not gonna have to tell you the whole way it works, but you get the basic idea. So here they are. They've got the same needs you and I have for love, for intimacy, for desire. They've got it. It's burning inside of them, just like it burns inside of everyone else, right, but for them, and we can blame it on their sinful nature. We can. They only can see this being fulfilled. They only want this being fulfilled someone of the same sex. Now we know what Christian is going to say, Well, you got to deny self, die to self, and you just can't do that. You just have to live your life without it. You have to live your life alone.

26:37 You just have to live your life without that intimacy, no physical pleasure. You have to be celibate. You have to abstain for the rest of your life. Now that's easy for you to say, holding your husband's hand, holding your wife's hand, walking into your car, arm around each other, you get in the car, you kiss each other, you go home. You can be together intimately while the other person goes home alone. Well, they need to die to self. Yeah, well you don't have to. Nobody wants to ever discuss this.

27:27 This becomes very complicated, so AI says there's a hidden injustice in the way Christianity teaches die, deny, and follow. Ai says this, the more your needs are met, the less you have to deny. If you're married, if you're financially stable, if your love and supported, if you're secure in your identity and purpose, then your faith often feels like confirmation of your blessings. Oh God is good. God is so good, He's so great. I'm blessed, blessed beyond measure.

28:07 Oh my life is so good. So what do you have to deny? What is it costing you? You could say something, I've died to self and now look what God has done for me. You can almost see that all of your blessings is a reward because you died to yourself, so you get all of this. Maybe the reason other people don't have all that you have is because they didn't die to yourself. Well, so so happy for you, so you get your pat yourself on the back. I guess on how godly you are. Some may not go that direction, but you can see what this starts to set up. So you get to say all of this, you get to celebrate all of this, and this is what AI says. But you haven't had to deny. You haven't had to deny your heartbreaking loneliness. You hadn't had to deny celibacy. You hadn't have to deny isolation. You don't have to deny poverty, you don't have to deny mental torment. You just had to give up bad habits or surface level indulgences, not core God given desires that go unmet year after year after year after year after year after year after year, maybe forever. No no, no, no, no, no, you don't have to do that. There's an imbalance, there's

29:39 an injustice in the way this plays out. Now, I know what others are gonna say, Well, God is just sovereign. God is just sovereign. Sorry you were molested for fifteen years. Sorry, God is just sovereign. I wasn't. Now. I know. You don't say it in such a blunt way as I just described it, but that's how it ultimately plays out. In the way Christians talk, well, or we make every excuse, Yeah, you make every excuse because you didn't experience it. Okay. So AI's like, the more your needs are met, the less you have to deny. Ai goes on to say, the less you have, the more you're told to die.

30:27 The less you have, the more you're told to die. If you're single and longing for companionship, die deny, let go. If you're childless and grieving, die deny and let go. If you're unemployed and directionless, die deny and let go. If you're battling trauma, depression, and instability, die deny and let go. You're often told deny yourself. Don't desire those things too much. Jesus is enough. Die to your dreams, don't follow your feelings, just take up your cross. The message becomes you must die harder because you lack more.

31:07 It's almost a cruel theology, even if it's unintentional. That's where we end up and we don't hear what we're saying. We don't here, we don't we don't take it to its logical conclusion. And this can even become more bizarre in the way it can play out. Right, it's so weird, right, okay, just just I know I'm about to get into some controversial stuff. But we've got I told you, I'm not here to debate theology. I'm here to be very, very honest. So let's let this play out in a couple of different directions. The way this can play out because the church plays so many twisted games on this. Okay, So if you're single, right, you're single, you're not married, so you don't you have no ability for then physical intimacy, right, You're you're forbidden from having it. So you're supposed to abstain.

31:59 You're supposed to die to yourself. You're supposed to deny yourself. You're you're not supposed to engage in that in any way, shape or form. You're not to look at a woman with lush, You're not to look at porn. You're not. You're supposed to just abstain, abstain, abstain, abstain, abstain. That's what you're supposed to do. Right, So you're supposed to die to yourself. You're supposed to deny yourself. Now, all the married people there, hey, they're good to go. They don't have to deny themselves. They get they get to they get to particular people say, well, that's just the way it works. But just wait, what what's the way this what's the way this plays out? Because there's a little bit of hypocrisy here, right, So they don't have to die, they don't have to deny, they can indulge. They can indulge, they can get as much as they want and there's no sin. So they're good to go.

32:42 Now everybody else, sorry, sorry you can't. Oh but wait, now, let's see how this plays out. Some of those married people end up getting divorced. No, wait, they didn't deny themselves. They didn't die to themselves. Because if both if you die to yourself, you deny yourself, it's going to be very hard to get a divorce because that sounds like now, unless someone just leaves you, I guess then in that case, it's not on you. But the point is a divorce occurs. Now, here's what happens. Even if you allow for the supposed exception clause, which some people believe, there's certain exceptions where you cannot only get divorced. You're allowed to get divorced, you're allowed to get remarried. Oh watch the way this game is played, right, So some people will say that there's an exception clause. Others don't believe there's an exception clause.

33:29 But guess what. People who don't believe there's an exception clause many cases, change their mind dramatically when they find themselves getting divorced, and all of a sudden, they say, there's an exception clause, and we'll find a way to say that the other person broke the exception clause so now, or that the exception clause applies in their particular case. But whether it applies or don't apply, And many would argue, even if the divorce is allowed, is remarriage allowed. Many in church history would say, no, remarriage is not allowed. You have to now remain single as long as your spouse is still alive. Now you have to remain single, and you have to remain celibate. Right, So some will be like, okay, I can't. Some churches will even say you can't get remarried. You can't do this, and they're like, okay, so I have now. So if you're single, you got no physical intimacy, you're missing out on all of that.

34:17 You can't have it right. Oh, now now you've got divorced. Now some will say, well, you've got to remain single. Now you've got to go without for the rest of your life. All right, okay, all right, but almost inevitably, and every church you've got people sitting in that congregation, not only were they single at one point in time, many times during their single life, nobody may know it, maybe top secret. They weren't so self denying as they that everyone may think they were. They actually were engaged in some kind of sin during that time, but sh nobody knows. Right then they got married, Okay, they Now it's good because then their sin is never going to be found out because now they're married. Okay, good, right, they got divorce and then they got remarried. Now, throughout history it would be like, wait a minute, you're divorced and remarried. Now if it doesn't meet the exception clause, or even if it does meet the exception clause, according to some theologies, you're like, huh, I think this then would be classified as an adulterous relationship. Every time you come together, you're committing adultery because the other spouse is still alive. So you are supposed to be what God joins together. Let no man put asunder. You made a commitment, you made vowels. No, I'm sorry, you're going to have to abstain. You cannot engage in physical intimacy even though you're married, because it's adultery and we are against adultery,

35:50 so you can't do that. Is that ever applied in certain parts in church history? It was, but through most of Christianity abandoned that, and like no, no, no, no, dice, because divorce became more and more common, and you have more and more churches filled with people who used to be married, got divorced, and they're remarried. They're involved in adultrey. And guess what they get to do. They get to commit adult tree Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. They get to do so now wait wait wait wait wait those single people, those single no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no no, you can't. Yeah, that's a sin. That's that's fornication. You better not. Oh you better not be looking at that. You better not. Wait a minute, they're divorced, married and remarried. Are that's an adult. It doesn't matter. We don't look over there, you can't do it.

36:41 Oh well, isn't that interesting. So they have to die and deny, but they don't have to die and deny. It kind of weird how Christianity can play this weird game. Oh wait, but in some cases some people, well you just you just got divorced. You can't You've got to remain single. So sometimes you have some who literally was divorced, they're remarried, they're an adultrey, and that someone else who's got divorced, but they're told they can't remarry and they have to stay they have to stay single and celibate. Well wait a minute, what about the people who literally broke every rule, got married, got divorced, got remarried. But they get to engage. They don't have to deny themselves. If if other people have to deny, then they should have to deny. Oh but we're not going to do that.

37:26 Oh and then to add all of this in, Oh wait, if you have same sex attraction, you've got to live your life deny and deny and deny. Well wait a minute, but the person who was married, got divorced and got remarried, they don't. So the best thing to do in most cases, if you're a Christian and things aren't going right, leave the church, get divorced, get remarried, come back to the church, and you'll be welcome with open arms. You won't even be considered a sinner, and then you can have all the intimacy you want. The whole thing is a facility. It's such a game. So you can be sitting in a church. You can have in that church people who are who were married, divorced and remarried and possibly biblically and many of those cases literally are an adulterous relationship.

38:17 They're never going to be judged and they're never going to be told to abstain, and they're perfectly okay in that very same church. If two of the singles get caught and involved in primarial sex, they could be church disciplined. They're gonna be church disciplined by the very church that has people sitting in the church who could be involved in an adulterous relationship. That's kind of odd, huh, and now weird that adultery is okay, that fornication is not. Oh, and in that same church, there could be two people who struggle with same sex attraction. If they get found out, they'll be booted and kicked out of the church. Well, you have people sitting in the church or an adulterous relationship.

38:58 They don't have to die, They don't have you have to deny everyone else does? Oh? Do we want to make this even more uncomfortable? Do you want to make this really more uncomfortable? Now, I'm not going to say that weight is always the result of gluttony. By no way, shape or form. Am I going to say that. But in every church you either have people who are overweight as a result of gluttony, or you may have people who are single, but they're full blown gluttons by any definition of gluttony. Does any of the people involved in gluttony ever have to die deny? No? Will they ever even be shamed for it? No, will they ever be confronted about it. No, So you can engage in gluttony, which is a complete lack of you know, you're not dying and denying, you're indulging. You're going above and beyond, and you're okay. But but if you do that, well you've got to die and deny that, die and deny thing is just thrown out there whenever we want to throw it out, and we can apply it to whomever we want. It's such a game, so the less you have.

40:20 If you're in some situations, you've got to die and deny. But the church will play these weird games, and other situations you're good to go. Nobody ever stops to go. Wait a minute, are we even listening to ourselves? How this is being applied? This seems so it's so subjective. So AI says, this all makes cross bearing and just dying ofself entirely subjective. Under this model, one person's cross is giving up Starbucks, another person's Another person's is crushing loneliness for life and sexual deprivation. You're deprived of it for the rest of your life. This person just has to try to give up Starbucks. Wow, wait to carry that cross way to die to yourself. One person gives up Netflix, the other has to give up the dream of being a parent. The language is used interchangeably, but the reality is wildly unequal, and those who suffer more are told to spiritualize their pain as discipleship, while those who suffer less are congratulated for denying themselves because they tithe or serve at the church. So Ai says, this

41:54 all leads to some philological consequences. Becomes almost a work based bring in self management. Deny yourself becomes a performance treadmill. How much have you denied? How you have you died enough for your desires? Are you following him sincerely enough? It removes objective assurance and replaces it with emotional subjectivity. You feel close to God when you deny. Denying, well, you feel guilty when when you desire something, or you feel inferior when others seem more fulfilled or less needy. And it just becomes a subjective befom its base and it becomes a mess. This is where the church leads into this chaos, Ai says. So it becomes subjective and unjust.

42:54 Those with much to enjoy don't have to deny as much, and their faith seems easier. Without much must deny more fundamental longings and are told to call that contentment. It becomes a moving target, a quiet judgment system, and deeply unequal theology. So Me and Ai continued to discuss. So Ai was acknowledging this thing is problematic, and I just pointed out some very really just inconsistent, weird ways this plays out and Christianity. And whenever you pointed out, people get mad at me. They get irritated with me, but don't get mad with me, I think to me, I think the problem is we don't really understand. We were not understanding that die, deny, and follow from a law gospel perspective. I think that's what we need. But we'll get into that later. I already wanted to throw some of it in, but I kept talking to Ai, and Ai says, you're exposing a devastating truth about how take up your cross, deny yourself and follow Christ is commonly preached.

44:06 When you take it face value, as most of Christianity teaches it, the standard is so radical and all encompassing that no Christian has ever truly done it, at least not consistently fully or genuinely. So AI's like, look, if you really take die to yourself, deny yourself, and follow Christ, meaning you're not following yourself. If you literally took that like in a true way, and what it seems to literally be saying, nobody has ever done it. Nobody has, nobody has died to themselves. It's just a game. You play. He said, Well, I may not be, but I died to myself in this area. No you don't. The text doesn't say die to yourself in an area. It says die to yourself, take up your cross and die, deny yourself.

44:53 That means it's something more, but we want to water it down. Ai says, if anyone did truly live that way, it would probably look like monasticism asceticism, a I said. If we truly, if we truly were gonna take up our cross, die, deny, not follow oursel, it would be monasticism, meaning we would all be monkst we would be in monasteries. It would be aceticism, where you do all kinds of crazy things in order to keep dying and denying yourself, AI said, Or it would look like total detachment from normal human life possessions, no sex, no comfort, no autonomy, no identity, no apart from suffering and spiritual striving, that would be your life. So AI says, let's consider what the standard actually demands when todd the way most churches teach it, and then ask whether anyone's truly lived it.

46:08 According to most preaching, the call demands absolute denial of self, not just sin, but desires, dreams, preferences, and needs. Your wants, your ambitions, your personality, and your pleasure are all suspect. You've got to truly deny yourself. Now, on one hand, this makes sense, right, because what happens we have all of these needs and desires. If they're unmet, then that's where all the problems begin. And then we already connected how that ends up in sin and how that ends up in all these problems. Right, but if we could truly deny self, then needs would not bother us, because well, we're so committed to self denial and being dead to self it wouldn't matter. But that calls for a totality of self denial, a totality of dying to self. Absolute denial of self is how most Christians would teach it, constant dying to self, daily sacrifice of comfort, rest, pleasure, affirmation, suppression of longing for love into miss joy unless spiritually directed.

47:10 So basically, you constantly it's absolute denial of self. You have to constantly be dying to self. And again, well, we can get into a whole discussion about the tenses there, but okay, following Christ, a set of self every decision must reflect Christ's will, not personal desire. You must renounce self reliance, self interest, and even self care. Take up your cross. You should expect suffering, rejection, and loss as normal Christianity. You shouldn't. You should want suffering because it means you're truly dying to self. That's kind of basically the way it's taught. Now you we can, we can, we can try to expand that, clean it up a little bit, but you're getting the basic idea. AI is trying to take basically what Christianity teaches and says, Look, this is absolute kind of thing, and it would it would, it would so radically impact your life if you are even remotely committed to taking up your cross, dying, denying, and no longer following yourself and falling Christ. If you really were committed to that, your life would basically look like a monk. You would look like you're in a monastery.

48:13 So I asked AI, has anyone ever done this? And AI says biblically no, Even the disciples felt to deny themselves. They argue over who was the greatest fled the cross, literally ran away when Jesus was arrested, waived in loyalty. Peter denied Christ three times. Historically, monastics tried. Early monastics and ascetics renounced marriage, that meaning celibacy. Wealth, They gave up, you know, poverty. They took a vow of poverty, autonomy, obedience to a rule, the rule of the monastery, comfort, fasting, flagellation, isolation. Some lived in the deserts, others lived in silence. Some even lived on these platforms. But even they struggled with pride LUs despair needed the grace they preached. Often descended into legalism, elitism, or spiritual madness. And guess what many and those monasteries they confess their sins daily or at least weekly. Well, what are the monks confessing? What are the monks confessed? What are the monks going to confession for? Oh? Wait, because they still sin, because they're still not even though they've renounced everything, given up everything living in a monastery, they still sin, meaning they're still not dead to self and they're still not denyingself. How is that even possible?

49:27 Because you cannot ever truly die to yourself, you can never truly deny yourself. There is no way for to ever truly happen, which then means our entire interpretation of this has been so flawed today the Christians true are truly died to themselves, AI says, No, Most Christians who claim to deny themselves still have jobs, families, hobbies, sexuality, comforts, sleeping, soft beds, eat full meals and joy, music, entertainment, intimacy, technology. The very people preaching self to now live lives of incredible privilege and satisfaction, often with beautiful homes, vacations, coffee preferences, and curated sermons about dying to self. Hey, I was not very nice about that. Like, AI's like, this is all just a joke, It's just a game. So AI says, well, what does this tell us? Well? Number one, the teaching is inconsistent. It's preached universally but applied selectively. People are told to deny themselves, whether leaders enjoy comfort one persons self denial is giving up Instagram. Another is giving up hope for a spouse. The standard is impossible if taken literally, no one meets it. Ever, the more honest more honestly it's applied, the more extreme it becomes. It leads to either spiritual despair or hypocritical pretending. Number three. It must drive us to Christ, not to ourselves. If this call is law, die, deny, and follow, then it cannot be

50:58 our ladder to solve or emotional stability. It must be the diagnosis, not the cure. So AI's like, maybe we should stop and go wait a minute, maybe this is not the cure. Maybe this is not the solution to the reason. You know, hey, Christians, we have all of these desires. If they're on med it leads to sin, okay, and then we have a sinful nature. So what we need to do is die to self. Maybe maybe it's not ever supposed to be the cure. It's literally law, do this. I can't hm. Who literally took up his cross, who literally denied himself, who literally followed the will of the Father, not my will, but your will be done?

51:39 Who literally did all of those things? Let me see? Was it you No? Was it Paul No? Was it Peter no? Was it John? No? It was Christ. Law says, deny yourself completely, die to everything you are, follow perfectly. The Gospels says you didn't do that. Christ did. He denied himself, He took up his cross, He followed all the way to death for you. So now in Christ by faith. You've already died Galatians two twenty. You've already been crucified with Christ. Roman sixty six. You're already raised in Him Colossians three one. So your life isn't about proving you can deny yourself. Well, it's about living in the freedom of what Christ has already done, while still filling the ache of your unfinished humanity. See, everybody thinks the answer is dyed deny. It's it's it's the key to exposing the reality. Now I know that goes against every sermon you've ever heard, and we're we're gonna run out of time trying to take this apart. So AI says, under the standard, Under the standard most of Christians teach, no one has ever fully lived out deny yourself, take up your cross, or follow me. And those who've tried, monastics, pietists,

53:09 mystics either burned out or collapsed into spiritual pride, which is why we must stop preaching it as an achievable discipleship program. Instead preach it as law that crushes self hope, a call fulfilled perfectly by Christ, a positional reality we now live in by faith. Now I've still got a million questions. Look, I just took you through a part of a conversation that lasted for like three hours. It was like a three hour conversation. We're still not even done. Me and Ai are still Me and AI are still struggling with this. Ai got very emphatic though there. Ai was just like, it's just a it's a game. Oh, Chris, just continue to play this game. You're out of your minds. Basically, nobody is doing this. Why do you keep pretending it's not happening? But Christianity teaches that it does, that it can, that this is the key. So what are what are the facts? We are born with these desires, deep desires, needs, absolute like I have to have. And if you remove them problems, we can lead them to emotional problems, mental problems, physiological problems. They're they're they're the the cause of many cases,

54:41 are unmet needs. Those sin is our desire trying to meet these needs and an illegitimate way. Legitimate needs we try to meet in an illegitimate way. That's rue so much of our sin. What's driving our sin is this desire to fulfill these needs. If we can figure out what the need is that we're trying to fulfill. In many cases we get a better understanding of what we're doing. But at the same time we have a sinful nature that who wants wrong desires as well as right desires, and will say sin to get the wrong and the right. And so that sinful nature makes everything all complicated and messed up. And the Church comes along and in some capacity we'll say the solution is just die to yourself, just deny yourself, just take up your cross. That's the solution.

55:32 If you can do that, then everything is fixed, everything is good to go. It will say something like, let's see here, do I have it here? If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. And that is preached in many cases, not even in an exegetical context. In a way it gets lifted and it's like, hey, that's how you need to live your life. Now. I think we'll have to get into how to actually break that down.

56:14 That's Matthew Chapter sixteen, verse twenty four. But you can break it, you can look at it. But I just want you to see how this all begins to fall apart, because the answer is, well, if you can't get the needs met. Well, I'm sorry, it really stinks for you because you've got to die, deny, you got to stop falling. So now all these other people they're good to go. But even that sometimes is not always consistent. As I talked about the divorce, marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce and remarriage, it's not even even consistently applied in those areas, or gluttony, or I can think of many other situations like, well, you know we're not going to apply it there whoa whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. If these people over here have to die, deny and follow, how come those people don't. So we've seen where this begins to fall apart. I gave you a little sense of where you really need to take.

57:19 This is more to a gospel based system. Right, and Christ, you've already died, and Christ, you are dead. Past tense, you are dead. You have already been crucified with Christ, and you've been raised in Him. So you have you have been crucified, you've been dead, you've been bare, you've been raised. That's all positional reality. So you have died, you have. It's all happened positionally. Now you can say, well, practically we have to strive to die and deny. You can try that, but again that's just striving for something that you're never first. You're never going to come anywhere close.

58:03 You can put that as a as a as a goal. You got to make sure you understand it's not achievable in any meaningful way. You said, well in this one area. Again, it becomes very difficult to measure because because even from a theological perspective, even you're like, well, look, I accomplish this. Yeah, but if you're guilty at one point of the law, you're guilty of all. You're still in a perpetual state of sin. So it becomes very hard in even how you measure that or even quantify anything or qualify anything in that way. So the reality is Christians are not really dead to themselves practically speaking, positionally we are. We're dead, buried, resurrected. And my position, the old me is gone, It's been crucified with Christ till life. I now live. I'm living by the faith of the Son of God. Yeah, we're fifty nine minutes or yeah, fifty nine minutes. I want to say more, but I'm just gonna kind of leave it there. I know, that's kind of like a dangerous place to leave it, because people are gonna be like, well, what about what about? What about? What about? What about?

59:13 What I understand we couldn't cover everything in those fifty nine minutes, and we still got a lot more to discuss in regards to the dying to sell. But we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll do some work here on Matthew sixteen at some point because we need a new exegetical framework for it. All right, Thanks for listening. God bless