America: A Christian Nation?

0:02 Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Do you not like when someone's sitting in the backseat and they keep asking you, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Now, in twenty twenty four, just look on your phone. You can tell where we are. You know how far we are? Like, you don't need to ask. Okay. But back in the olden days, when you were sitting in the backseat, you didn't have anything other than maybe if you brought you know, I don't know, a book, okay. You didn't really have a lot to choose from. But sitting in the backseat you had one of those paper maps. I guess you could kind of like, hey, where are we at? Okay? Oh I think we're this far? Now you could try to figure it out on a paper map. Okay. Does anyone even remember using a paper map? Okay? And how you would like take the wrong turn constantly and end up blocks Okay. So in twenty twenty four, I guess are we there yet? It doesn't really work, but I guess maybe in podcasting it does. So are we there yet? And where is the there that we're trying to get to. I don't know. I don't know.

1:07 Maybe I should start by saying, hey, does anyone know how to get to the end? Does anyone know where we are? I don't know. I'm completely lost at this moment. But I say all of that, I do know this, I do know this. I can be dogmatic about the following. I can be dogmatic that it is Tuesday, July the sixteenth, twenty twenty four, and that it is currently two thirty pm correct time or Central time. It is, I say, and I'm coming to you live. I know where I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Apbling, Texas. So I know it's Tuesday. I know it's July the sixteenth, twenty twenty four. I know it's two thirty one pm correct time or Central time. And I do know that I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio, and I do know that it's located right here in Applene, Texas. That's what I do know. Outside of that, I am completely lost. I am now. I am saved.

2:09 Okay, I'm not speaking of my salvation. I am saved because of what Christ has did not because of anything I do. So I'm not lost in that way, but in another way, I'm completely lost. Okay, yeah, you're going, what is going on with you? You're all over the place. Come on, focus, focus, focus, pay attention. Okay, you're right, I need to focus. But to be honest, I don't want to focus. I don't want to focus. I want to be done, ladies and gentlemen, I don't want to be doing this. All right, here's the situation. We all know that on Saturday, a very tragic event occurred. Someone attempted to assassinate Donald Trump. Donald Trump.

2:53 The bullet in a sense, just nicked his ear. He's okay, fine, he's recovering. He has a bandage on his ear. The last video, last video I saw, I think it was from the Republican Convention. So he's doing okay. He's recovering, at least physically. I don't know how the assassination attempt may have impacted him emotionally or mentally, but he's okay, at least physically. Tragically, another individual, his first name is Corey. He passed away and died at the Trump rally when he was hit by bullets from the shooter. Obviously, the shooter was killed as well, and two other individuals were seriously injured or wounded. So it's been a very tragic situation that's brought up lots of emotions, lots of thoughts, and lots of just feelings and lots of other things. Now, what I have decided to do is I'm monitoring what's going on within the Christian world. I'm not focusing on how the you know, the liberal media or the conservative I'm not worried how the world is approaching it and what they think and what they're predicting.

4:04 I'm kind of ignoring that. I want to know how the church is responding, what the church is thinking, what the church is saying, what the church is feeling. And I just say the church in a general way. I'm referring to Christians. I'm referring to Christian ministries, Christian podcasts, and churches and what's being said inside churches. And primarily, I am focusing primarily on what we are finding on the Sermons two point oh app or the beta dot sermonadio dot com website, because that's been our focus of twenty twenty four, listening and utilizing that amazing tool that we have been given in the Sermon's two point oh app and the Sermonadio website, because there are all thousands upon thousands of sermons added every single week. It's a never ending supply of spiritual food. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we may disagree, but we constantly find things to keep us thinking and being challenged. So I've been kind of doing that and you've heard in in fact, we've kind of created a series now trying to kind of just record all of what we're hearing, and a lot of it has been very frustrating. Some of it's been disturbing, some of it's been maddening, discouraging, and I look, I'm just gonna be honest, some of it's been almost anger inducing. Just some crazy, crazy stuff out there, just insane stuff. So as we've been kind of monitoring there, or I have, and if you've been listening to me with then you're monitoring. Hopefully you're monitoring out of your own I did receive an email from

5:35 someone where he sent me a link to a response that's on sermon Audio. I think he said something like you may like this one, and I'm like, okay, so I do want to review that one at some point. It's only like eight or nine minutes. The audio is not very good, but I definitely want to. I think he has his AC unit in the background. Okay, just a pro tip. As much as you want the AC on, we have to turn it off, okay, because it messes up the recording. All right, But I digress there. We will review that. But in the midst of all of this, we kind of stumbled into something. Again my fault. I know, if I want to, you know, if I want to get to it the end of this, I've got to stay focused, right, But I keep just trying to keep up with everything. So as we know, I've been monitoring the sermon's two point er app and inside the under the feed tab, I saw a sermon that was posted fifteen hours ago entitled God Bless America Again, God Bless America Again Part one and part two. Everyone needs to go find it and listen to both parts. It's from A Carl Morton and again. The name of the church. Let me look here I always forget is Barry Baptist Church b E. R. R. Y Bury Baptist Church. I look at the numbers for this is only like nine people have listened. Let's get that number one way way way, way way up. All right, let's download that.

7:01 Let's listen to it, ladies and gentlemen, Let's get those numbers, uh, because we want, we definitely want to be listening to these and paying attention to what we are hearing. And I want you to go listen to them without my commentary, without my analysis, without my critique, without my review, all right, because then maybe it'll give you a different perspective other than hearing me off for mine. I want you to get the most out of this. Now. When I saw God Bless America again, I'm just gonna be honest with you. I saw it in my feed posted fifteen hours ago. I was immediately like, well, I know this is going to be dealing with the Trump situation and the Trump shooting and the assassination attempt, and maybe the Republican Convention and maybe just a lot of politics, because I'm constantly warning of everyone of the political hijacked church. So I'm like, Okay, I need to review it. But then I noticed, what's part two? I gotta go back to part one. Well, we found out that part one was preached like June June the thirtieth. I think may I said, you'll the thirtieth last one. That would make no sense June the thirtieth, prior obviously to the shooting, and prior obviously to the fourth of July. So I'm like, okay, Well, if we can get part one reviewed, then we can get to part two, and then maybe part two we'll get us right back on track to the shooting. Well. Part one was a little bit frustrating because it made the common claim that America is a Christian nation. It is a Christian nation, and we talked a little

8:33 bit and and the last episode as we were reviewing, this is America a Christian nation. So I provided a little bit of I think I have some of the things I have here about this. Again, the claim that America is a Christian nation is a complex and debated topic. While the United States has a significant Christian population and foundation, it is important to recognize that America as a nation is not a ficially a Christian nation in terms of its governmental structure religious pluralism. The United States was founded on the principle of religious freedom, as reflected in the First Amendment of the Constitution, which prohibits the establishment of a state religion. This ensures the people of all faiths or of no faith, have the right to practice their beliefs without interference from the government.

9:22 Secular government. The US government operates as a secular entity, meaning it does not endorse, promote any specific religion. The separation of church and state is a foundational principle to prevent religious discrimination and to ensure equality for all citizens, regardless of their religious beliefs. Diversity a diverse religious landscape. The United States is a diverse country, with people practicing various religions, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and others. That diversity of beliefs and values contribute to the country's rich tapestry that demonstrates that America is not exclusively a Christian nation. Obviously, the historical context, well, Christianity has played a significant role in shaping American history and culture. The founding fathers intentionally established a secular form of government to prevent the pitfalls of religious persecution and to ensure the freedom of conscience for all citizens. No, I went through that relatively quick, but so we kind of challenged that. Well, then you know, okay, we finished that episode. It went way too long. I wasn't super happy with it. I'm like, so what do I do? Now?

10:28 What do I do? Now? Do I do I jump over to part two? Do I do I review what the do I look at the thing that was sent to me in the email that someone sent me? Do I do I look at what he sent me? And like, let's review this now? Well, then I feel like I'm kind of leaving this not really finished, even though I told everyone to go listen. So what do I do? So I was here in the studio and I just hit play and I started listening to a little bit more, and I'm like, well, you know what, let's let's let's just do a little bit more work on part one. I skipped some I have it queued up once again. This is going to turn back. Basically, their entire argument in this sermon is America is a Christian nation, and all of the arguments that are being utilized, all of the arguments, all of the quotes, it appears, is coming from a book written by Pastor Robert Jeffers a first Baptist church in Dallas, Texas. I don't remember the name of the book that he's supposedly quoting. I need to go back and see if we can find the name of the book. I think he gives the name at the very beginning of this. If someone can go back and grab the name of the book that he's quoting from, it would be good to look up some critiques, analysis and reviews of the book, because there may because sometimes pastors will take some book and just read it and almost as if it's dogmatic, and everyone in the pew will say amen to it. And then you do fifteen minutes of research and you'll be like, this book is filled with historic and accuracies,

12:01 misquotes, misrepresentation, and there'll be a million problems with it. You try to tell Christians that, and they'll get mad at you. I'm like, No, that book that your pastor was quoting for almost complete trash. Now in this case, I don't know if that's the case, but I'm saying, sometimes that really bothers me. That really bothers me. And the first time, the first time I ever learned this, and I'll never forget the absolute humiliation. If we were in a car today and we drove into Bellevue, Nebraska, I could take you to the apartment complex where I realized I'm never trusting another Christian book as long as I live. I mean, I was so ticked off, all right. So, for some weird reason, the entire time I lived in Nebraska and a little bit when I first moved here back to Texas. When I lived in Nebraska, Mormon missionaries came to my door. It fell like on a regular and consistent basis, and I got pretty good at allowing them to speak, being very respectful, listening to them, and then I would respond to them with questions, right, not arguments or debates, but trying to question what about this, and what about this? And what about this? And what about this? In many cases trying to lead them to a like well, lead them almost I hate to say a trap, but I was kind of using some of my debate when I was on the debate team here in the state of Texas, kind of using some of those skills, which is not always the right way to do

13:33 theology. But I was younger, and so in some cases I was looking to win an argument more than I was actually trying to care about people. I'm just going to be honest with you, because you know, I'm a sinner. And I don't know if you realize this, I've been sinning my whole life and I still do. Okay, So so I had because they kept coming to my door and we had some good conversations. Now what would happen is two would come and then they would bring more. And there would be times that would have you know, six seven people sitting in my living room and you know what, like they would bring like the big guns, the people who supposedly knew everything. And it was some interesting conversations and I did appreciate their their passion, their zeal, their dedication. Also they were so good, like if we got big snow, they would come along and just shovel my entire you know, sidewalk and drive like they were really very They're awesome. In fact, in some cases they actually when I taught Sunday school at a church in Bellevue, Nebraska, and there were times some of the Mormon missionaries would come to my Sunday school class. It was really it was really an interesting situation. But I'll never forget. This may have been early on they were gonna come back, and I'm like, okay, I'll be ready, I'll be prepared. So I went to the Christian bookstore and I bought a book on Mormonism and I and I had some really like oh this is really going to get them this and so I said, well, what about when Joseph Smith did this or did that? And they were like that's just completely not true. And I'm like, oh, oh it's no,

15:07 it's just not true. So I was so then I thought, oh, you're not even going to be honest, right, And so I kind of got a little argumentative and high on my horse, right like I was like, I've got the facts. Well, they left, and so then I think I had to go to I think I had to go to downtown Omaha to the library or maybe the library in Bellevue. I can't remember where I went. I had to go get some additional resources. And guess what I found out after a lot of driving around and looking that the Christian book was borrowing from basically an urban myth and legend, a made up thing. And guess what I had to do. I had to call them Mormon missionary back and say, hey, you remember me, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we remember you. I just want you to know I'm very sorry. I gave fraudulente information, complete disrespect to you. I gave disrespect to your faith, even though I believe your faith is fraudulent. I should not be spreading lies and misrepresentation. And I was wrong, and I'm just, and I apologize, and I promise you that in any future conversations, I will ensure that any questions or information I share is fact checked better.

16:18 And I was humiliated. I was completely humiliated by that experience because I ended up looking stupid. Now, my male ego was in the way, but the same thing, it was disrespectful. And so I from that point like, I don't care what Christian books say. There God, and too many times I've seen this, and I should have learned this lesson right, Because the same thing happened in the nineteen eighties with the Satan Seller by Mike Wark, which was supposedly an expose on Satanism. Come to find out he was an entire fraud. He was never all the things he claimed to be not true. The same thing happened and the two thousands there were I believe, two brothers claiming that they were brought up in and a strict Islamic home and basically brought up under jihad, and and they hated us and and all and made all these claims about their Islamic background, and they and they started speaking in churches, and they became like the big, the big celebrities within Christian apologetics. They these are the guys to listen to who talks about Islam.

17:19 Come to find out much of the story of their past was fraudulent, was made up, and it's just like what And then a lot of times what they were saying in church, you thought they were speaking Arabic, right, you thought they were speaking and everybody in the church is like, look, they're using these Arabic terms. Well, those who know Arabic would review, review it and go they're not that's not even an Arabic term. They're just using that. That's and it's like, how embarrassing. So this has happened too many times in Christianity. So it drives me crazy that when you when when listening to Christians either talk about anything that in many cases DM form is just not accurate or it is fraudulent. And I cannot stand that. And we have we have we have fallen into that. So the thing about this, we're listening to this sermon where he's reading from a book from Robert Jeffers.

18:15 Well, I don't know, he's reading from the book. Like everything the book says it's just true. It's he's just giving it the benefit of the doubt. It's just true. Well, everyone sitting there listening is saying, well, it's just basically saying amen, as if everything in the book is true. We need to find the name of the book and maybe we'll do some just basic research and find out that the book is praised for its historical accuracy, it's not misrepresenting, or maybe we'll find out that there's been mad major critique of it. So we definitely need to find out about that. Okay, Oh, I'm just getting a notification about something going on about the investigation and the Trump assessination. I'm not going to read that. That sounds like some crazy speculation, but well we'll get into that in later times.

19:02 Say, I need to stop looking at my notifications or I'm not gonna share anything because that I don't know if there's anything accurate about it. But what I'm saying is in this sermon, he's just he's basically just reading from the book by Robert Jeffers and that that bothers me because there's no like, well, he claimed this and I and I verified this, or I verified this, or I verified that or I verified this. There's no verification in some of the cases. Some of the things he said, he there was things left out. He talked about Benjamin Franklin and George Washington, and then in real time I go to AI and AIS providing WHOA, it's not quite that simple. There there's a there's some debate here, there's there's scholars who have different perspectives. Okay, so if I can find it, and then we in some of these reviews, we've fact checked things and within five seconds found out that what was being said was just absolutely fraudulent. That's that's all that drives me crazy. So he's making this claim about America being a Christian nation basically borrowed from a book taken from a book by Robert Jeffers, which I don't know the name of the book, and I don't know if he fact checked the book verified any of the claims in the book. But let's just say there's been some parts of this that seem to be how can we tell it? How can we say it? The book has a narrative, and it's only picking those things that seem to confirm that narrative, not anything that would challenge it. But the argument is America is a Christian nation.

20:37 That's the argument. So I fast forward this a little bit. Let's just jump back in again. Please go listen to the entire sermon, God Bless America again, part one and part two. I don't know if we'll get well, we'll have to get to part two because I'm assuming that's where that's going to address the Trump situation. And again, some of those responses have been filled with again, he's just misinformation. I can't stand that. Let me state it again, whatever issue Christians are addressing, the foundational principles for us are we do not listen, We put away line, We speak the truth, We do not bear false witness. We don't make wild accusations.

21:21 We don't traffic and suspicion and paranoia and conspiratorial thinking. We look for facts and we and we that's and and and that's the way we operate. And we stay away from gossip and slander and some of these things. This is just like basic stuff. Now in this particular sermon, he's not engaged in a lot of that. He well, he does go he calls liberals. I can't remember he had all these names for liberals. He gave like, I don't know, four or five little derogatory names for for for liberals. You know what I find interesting is Christians will stand behind the pulpit and use derogatory names towards homosexuals, progatory names towards liberals, derogatory names towards Catholics, derogatory names for all kinds of people. But can you imagine if I got up there and behind that same pulpit and use derogatory names about Christians? Mindless, uneducated idiots, foolish, believe anything, gullible, naive, can't think them some way. They couldn't think themselves out of the forest if they had a map. And I, oh, now you're being mean, Now you're being cruel. You don't say that. Oh, but I can talk trash about everyone else, and then amazing, you can stand behind the pulpit and call everyone else names, but you don't dare criticize Christians. And that's funny the way that we're Oh wait, no wait, you can criticize those Christians.

22:51 Oh but you can't turn the gun on us. Not Now you're being mean and cruel and you're supposed to be loving. Well, you're supposed to love your enemy. But I guess using derogatory names for your enemies is that's a cool way of showing love. It's just such a it's so hypocritical at times, that's ridiculous. So he had some names. I can't remember what he called them, liberals, what else I can't remember. It was this little trying to be clever, and I'm like, great, okay, so we can use derogatory names. It's wonderful. So but now maybe you're all into that, maybe you're maybe you're down with that. I just if you're down with it, then just be consistent. If people can call if you can call other people derogatory names, then well people can call you derogatory names, right, And is that what we want happening in the pulpit? I guess maybe I don't know. So are you ready? Let's let's jump into this. Sorry, I'm reaching back to plug in my iPad because my iPad dies in the middle of this. Well, then I can't do any real time research, all right, So he's he's about to get into the Constitution.

23:55 He's gonna he's gonna go after that, there is no separation of church and state. We're gonna listen to a little bit of that. Then he's gonna make some other claims, and we're just gonna take them apart and see what we can find. Are you ready? Here we go as we continue to navigate this wild forest of well responding to the Trump assassination, politics, patriotism, almost a form of Christian nationalism. All of this is coming together since the well against and in some ways against, since the fourth of July. But it's only seeming now to get even more intense intensified since the assassination attempt. Let's see what is going on here? Here we go. You might ask, what about the constitutional separation of church and state. You may be surprised to learn there is no such phrase separation of church and state.

25:00 Now, that is true, that exact phrase is not there, just like the word trinity is not in the Bible, just like the word rapture is not in the Bible, just like the word dispensationalism. Well, dispensations, I guess you could argue there there's a lot of phrases hypostatic union not there? Right, I could go on all kinds of thilological terminology that's not there. Because a phrase is not used does not mean the concept is not there. So Christians played this weird game, right, Well, the phrase may not be in the Bible, but the concept is there. Well, you'll be shocked to know the Constitution does not use the exact phrase separation of Church and State. Okay, well, congratulations, The concept is. It's the concept being can it arise from how the Constitution is written? And it's funny how sometimes Christians it's really weird sometimes from a Christian perspective, from a philological perspective, this is just a very important question. How much authority do you give to the constitution? How much authority do you give it? If the Constitution, if they amend the Constitution and the let's say that it's now in the Constitution. Let's just say they amend the Constitution and they say, hey,

26:34 there's a new amendment and the amendment says that homosexuality is good, it is right, it is the preferred sexuality. Would you be a constitutionist? Will you will be will you be all focused on the Constitution and its authority, or would you say, I don't care what the constitution says, Like, it's weird. Sometimes Christians are like the Constitution, the Constitution, the Constitution, and then the next minute like, well, I don't care what the government says. I don't care what the constitution says. So does the Constitution have power or not power? It's not unless you're going to go with some crazy idea that it's inspired by God. Now that's where things get crazy.

27:17 So I like, how much power do you give it? But he wants to really imp that the Constitution does not use the phrase separation of Church and state. Right now, let's see what he's going to go with the idea that because the phrase is not there, So then what does that mean? It's no, we're in the constitution. What happened years ago? Each state had its own state church denomination, and there Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to a group of Baptists from Danbury, Connecticut in one and the rule was that the Baptists Association had to support with their taxes the state Church of Connecticut, which was the Congregational Church. And so he wrote that that is not legal, that's unfair for what he was saying, it's unfair for any church denomination to have it over authority over another congregational church. Okay, now we're getting somewhere, all right, So there should be no state church. There should be no state church, there should be no national church. So if

28:48 America is a Christian nation, but yet there can be no national church or state church, then how do we then operate as a Christian nation? So establish the religion as the state religion, the national religion, but not a church. Like it's a Christian nation, but there can be no national or state church because we can't have one church dominating another church. Okay, So how should we work this? Well, then don't you separate bi logical inference the church from the state. So then the state cannot then do anything to prefer a certain church, promote a certain church, or do anything to punish a certain church. That the churches operate separately and independently from the government, other than if the church is doing something, you know, violation, violating specific laws. Right, Other than that that you want to keep them as separate as possible. Right. So, even though that's not maybe the phrase separation of church and state, it does sound like a little bit that well, I would definitely prefer it work that way, then there will be a dominant church if well, I mean, look, let's be honest. If Charismatics are the dominant church and my state or in the United States of America, I'm not supporting them. I'm not doing it. I'm gonna be full blown in rebellion. I'm not gonna listen because I think charismatic theology is absolutely a cancer on the face of the earth and it needs to be eliminated.

30:15 I can't stand charismatic theology. I would move out of America, and as a Baptist, I sure wouldn't want Catholics in charge, or Lutherans or Presbyterians or Episcopage, anybody who believes in infant Baptism right or not congregational. But in your denominational church, especially the Baptists, you'll find out the Early four Founders were Baptists, and they stood for Baptist principles. The Early Forefathers were Baptists. The Early Forefathers were Baptists. Now we know George Washington was Episcopal, no Anglican, he was Anglican. I think I have it here he is see Benjamin Franklin was raised Puritan, and George Washington was raised in the Anglican Church, the Church of England. So those are two. The early forefathers were Baptist. Were the early forefathers of the United States? I'm asking ai? Baptist? Were the early forefathers of the United States? Baptist?

31:51 That's a crazy claim, Okay, okay. While the early founders of the United States were primarily various denominations, hang on, let me this did not, Let me have it, regenerate, it's all, it's all messed up. He let me do this again. All right, here we go. Now, I's tapping that out. While the early founders of the United States were primarily from various Christian denominations such as Congregationalists, Anglicans, Presbyterians, there are also some who identified as Baptists, notably figures like Roger Williams, who founded Rhode Island advocated for religious freedom, and John Leland, a Baptist minister who fought for the separation of church and state, played a significant role in the early development of the country. The Baptist tradition has deep roots in America, particularly in promoting religious liberty and tolerance. I always say that my Baptist part of me is why I'm such a proponent of separation of church and state.

32:50 Baptist that was kind of their thing, religious freedoms. They didn't want to be persecuted, they wanted to be left alone, they didn't want to dominate, they wanted the government out of it. Well, it separate. So but to say that the early founders were Baptists is just a complete mischaracterization. You got to say some I would argue the minority were the other denominations were much more represented in the Forefathers that I think the Baptists would have been the minority. Okay, you see this is this is when see when the churches get into all these other things. See this, this is what drives me crazy when whenever something happens, when where churches get into politics, when churches get into patriotism, when churches get into many these things. Sometimes what's so crazy is what is being said. Is it an accurate representation? Let me just state this again, when the sure, when the when the pastor stands behind the pulpit and we're going to talk about whichever subject we're gonna be talking about, science, history, cultural events, current events, pop culture, music, at the at the minimum, we should strive to be as accurate as possible. And I have a very negative picture of the church in general, and it started before I became a Christian. I've told the story many many times during my teenage years. The idea that music was satanic and

34:22 it was destroying everyone, and there was messages if you played the album backwards. All of that was just like just insane. In this part of the country, in West Texas, all right, there were cities who had bands on dances see footloose, Okay, it was it was literally crazy, and it was very common in this part of the culture in this country at that time that churches on a Friday night would have some huge conference, some some special meeting about the evils of rock and roll and then would tell crazy stories like they were you know, uh that some one was listening to ac DC at midnight, you know, Highway to Hell or Hell's Bells from the Back in Black album and the demons came out of the speaker and they felt taken control of And it's like just crazy stories, right, and and there's these backward messages and parents, you know, you guys, you don't even know what's being said or telling your kids to worship Satan and Satanists are everywhere and we're all going to die. It's the end of the world run okay, and that that and that is not even an exaggerated way of explaining it.

35:31 It was insanity. Well, I thought it was fun to go to these churches on Friday night as a teenager and watch these pastors supposedly talk about music because it was in It was so fun because they didn't understand what they either would get. They would try to quote a lyric and not even understand what the lyric was saying, like they would like they had no clue. Are they associate, are they accrediting this lyric to this band? Or they're looking at album cub and you're like, you don't even know what you're talking about. All they proved to me where they were fools. They were clueless, they were moronic, idiotic. It was embarrassing. And then on Saturday then they would have a big bonfire where guess what, we're gonna burn these records.

36:20 We're gonna burn records. Okay, so they would burn the records. It was just insanity. Well, so I already hurt realized, may Christians get their facts really messed up. Then in the nineties it was a war, you know, conservative churches in their war against contemporary Christian music. Contemporary Christian music is of the devil. It's the devil in sheep's clothing. We've got to fight against it. So then I would hear pastors quoting lyrics from contemporary Christian music, and once again it would be like, oh, my goodness, you don't even understand what the song is about. You don't even understand what the song is about. Could you stop it? You don't get it, you're misrepresenting. Here's an article where the band is saying, that's not what the song means. Could you listen to No? But it was just insanity, so time and time again. So here he just made a comment that the Forefathers were Baptist. I like, some of them were, yes, so, some were, some weren't. So and again the Baptist, from my understanding, tended and even what I just read from artificial intelligence, it even makes the argument that most of the Baptists were the ones fighting for the idea of separation of church and state and religious liberty. And so he wrote that letter that said something about being separated and What he meant was

37:54 not that the church should not have anything to do with the government. He didn't mean the church all to stay out of the government's business. But it meant for the government to stay on the church's business. And no, so the government stays out of the church's business. But the church can be in the government's business. So okay. Now, when you say the government should be in the church's business, which church and which church should? Do you want the church controlling the government's business? Which church gets to control the government business? The Baptists, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans, the Episcopalians, the Anglicans, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Catholics. Who gets to control now?

38:45 According to a source. While the phrase separation of church and state is not explicitly mentioned in the First Amendment of the to the United States Constitution, it is widely interpreted by courts and legal scholars as reflect the intent of the Establishment Clause. The Establishment Clause prevents the government from establishing a national religion or showing preference for one religion over another. This principle being has been understood as promoting the separation of the church and state. In the United States legal system, The idea of the separation of church and state is rooted in the First Amendment Protection of religious freedom and has been reaffirmed through various Supreme Court decisions over the years. While the exact phrase may not be present in the Constitution, the concept is seen as a foundational principle that guides the relationship between religion and government in the United States. So what do you actually want. You don't want the government involved in the church, but you want the church involved in the government. How do you want the church involved in the government? Whose rules?

39:49 Whose rules? Whose rules? What if the church could take control of the government. And what if the church could say, hey, if you were divorced, first, no divorce, none. What God has joined together, Man should not put us under no more allowance for divorce. Now, some Christians say, no, no, no, no, there are certain rules that allow for divorce. No. But my Christianity says there are no rules for divorce, and many are no allowance for divorce, And there are Christians who believe that. So no divorce, Well no, no, there should be no none. We take over. Oh and by the way, if you've been divorced and you're remarried, oh you are in adultery, and so you should be punished by law for adultery because every time you have relations with your spouse, you're committing adultery. Oh no, there would be Christians will be like absolute wait wait, wait, I thought you wanted the church involved in the government, maybe that a church should establish those rules. No, you just want rules going after the sins that don't impact you. Right.

41:00 See, if we want the church in the government, which church and how much do you want them to control what the government does it doesn't do, not making a rule of law that the Baptist of Danbury, Connecticut had to send their money to support the Congregational Church. John Calvin was not a friend a Baptists. He persecuted the Baptist. His church was the Presbyterian Church. That's why I'm not a Calvist, because Calvin got his doctrine from the Baptist, not the Baptist. From the Calvist. I'm not an Armenian.

41:55 You said, well, what in the world are you. I'm a biable believing Baptist period. I believe what the Bible teaches. Calvinists would say they believe what the Bible teaches. Armenians would teach would say they believe what the Bible teaches. Lutherans would say they believe what the Bible teaches. Presbyterians would say, they believe that the Bible teaches. Church of Christ would say they believe what the Bible teaches. Charismatics would say they believe what the Bible teachers. Everyone says, they believe what the Bible teaches. Everyone does say. And this is the thing. If Christians can't agree on any philological doctrinal issue.

42:35 We can't agree on baptism, we can't agree on the Lord's Supper, we can't agree on the word repentance. We can't literally agree on anything. And you want the church involved in government, Well, we can't agree on anything theologically. How in the world is the church going to have any influence in the culture. When are we going to agree on anything? Who gets to make the determination? Government's already divided enough, get a bunch of Christians in there, it'll be total utter chaos. And you didn't like, you didn't like Calvin persecuting others, Well, why was that? What happened when in Calvin and Geneva? What happened? Did they establish kind of a church state relationship? Where the church could say this is wrong, and if you do this, you'll be persecuted, prosecuted, and punished, and then the civil government would come along and execute the punishment. The church would would write the laws, and the civil government then would prosecute and punish based off of those religious laws. Say what happens when the church is in charge in any way, shape and form. People start dying. And you're not a Calvinist because what Calvin did you do? Understand the doctrines of Calvinism did not originate with cal Oh then okay, right, oh my goodness, gracious, you can go. You can blame august Augustine for for for someone will say Augustine,

44:09 but Augustine, yeah, would but would he would be more responsible in some ways, and we could get a whole argument about church history. Okay, all right, so all right, let's see where this goes. And that's what we preach. If it's Bible, it's Baptist. If it's Baptist, it's Bible. We believe in preach what the Bible says. The apostles and Jesus Christ taught the doctors of grace before Calvin was ever born. Look, I'm a Baptist. That's ridiculous. If it's Bible, it's Baptist.

44:51 And if it's Baptist, it's Bible. Which Baptist, it's Baptists. I've been in Baptist churches and I'm like, is this a Baptist church or a Charismatic church. I've been in Baptist church and like, this is so semi Pallagian to full blown Paalagianism, it's not even funny. I've been in Baptist church, like this is so calvinistic, it's not even funny. I've been in Baptist churches that are so liberal. I'm like, I don't even know what's going on here. And I've been in Baptist churches that are so legalistic that you're like, oh man, I don't even think God could follow all of these rules. This is so what. There's not a unity within Baptist.

45:35 There's not unity within Baptist. You could say there are certain things that make someone a Baptist, and there are usually a few things, but like just to say Baptist means Bible, and Bible means Baptist. Oh man, oh man? Okay. In this reply, Jefferson was quoting the First Amendments in famous establishment clause, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment. Are you listening? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Now that is the First Amendment has nothing to do with church and state. It says the government must stay out of the church's business and not rule over one church over another. The contact is obvious.

46:35 Jefferson Thomas Jefferson was saying, our forefathers did not want one Christian domination to elevate over another. That's pretty plain in it. So when somebody says to you, well, you know what the First Amendment says, separation of church and state. It does not say that that was a letter written to the Congregational Church. I don't understand this point. So, okay, you you've admitted that the Constitution as it is written without the phrase was he was. Basically, now you're you're saying the church the government should stay out of the church. Now you believe the church should be involved in the government, but you haven't really articulated exactly how that is should work. But you've also articulated that the way the Constitution is written, it prohibits then a one church system like that that there cannot be a governmental church, there cannot be a state church. Okay, well, then what do you want? I don't understand what you want. Then, but it's a Christian nation. What do you mean by that that there's so even though there's not a state church, there's a state religion. And should that state religion take priority over all the other religions or prohibit the free exercise of those other religions? Are you saying that the that you that America is a Christian nation, so that should stop the existence of all other faiths and should outlaw those faiths and outlaw atheists. Is

48:07 that what you're saying? Like, I don't understand exactly what the point is here. The Founding Fathers intended to protect religious freedom, not restricted evidence from the courts. How can we know for sure what the Founding Fathers intended beside the father's own words. See I believe he's quoting directly from the Robert Jeffers book. I think he is. He's not giving us page numbers, He's not bet. I believe he's quoting directly from the book. We need the book. What we need to do is just look and see what criticisms have been offered by the book about the book. That's what we need. Okay.

48:47 So but he's just arguing, Hey, what the Constitution is saying you cannot you know, you can interfere with religious freedom. Okay, Now are you going to argue, are you going to a lot? Then that means you can't interfere with anyone's religious freedom. Buddhist, Muslims, okay, anyone, anyone, Satanists right, the Satanic Temple, you can't interfere. You can't take Now, if you're saying that freedom goes for everyone, well then you're in a pluralistic nation. You're not in a Christian nation because you're allowing the free exercise of all religions. So do you allow Are you saying only freedoms for Christians or only freedom for certain Christians? Because Hey, if we're going to start taking away freedoms, I know the first ones I'm going after.

49:36 I'm going after Charismatics, and I'm going to strip them of everything, their church, their doctrine, their theology. I'm going to ban charismatic theology from the face of the earth. So so what, But if it's a pluralistic. Then if it's pluralistic and you're allowing the freedom of every religion, including unbelievers, then you can't call that a Christian nation. Early several early court rulings show that not only was the nation built on a Christian foundation, but the government was also encouraged to support the Christian faith. This is our founding fathers. Now wait wait, wait, wait was the so so are the Supreme Court called for the government to support the Christian faith? Well, wait a minute, I thought you wait a minute, wait a minute.

50:30 Wait, If the government is supporting the Christian faith, that is the government getting involved in Christianity. You said that it was supposed to keep the government separate from the church, not the church separate from the government. But if the what the government supports, the government is going to control the government. The government. The minute you take money from the government, the minute you take support from the government, you are now what mad? You're marrying yourself to it. And now it's going to have some say so. But where like he's not offering any support of that. Yeah, I could try to I could try to do some googling of that. But even if it's true, is that the way it should be. Oh, look, I say this, I don't want the government's money. I don't want the government's support.

51:16 I don't want the government's help. I don't want anything from the government. I just want to be left alone so that we can preach and teach, because the more you take from the government. That was churches taking those loans during during COVID. It was it the PI. I can't remember the P something loans, p I P P PI, I can't remember what they were called. And they were taking that money from the government. I'm like, what in the world are you doing if you take money from the government. And then they would take money from the government, but they didn't want to follow any of the COVID restrictions. I'm like, you're literally taking money from the very government that you're saying. And remember that. And I looked up all kinds of churches that took laws of money, and it was insane.

52:00 These churches are taking all this money from the government. Well they're are, well, Christians are running around, Oh, this is an attempt to shut down Christianity. This is it. They're trying to take away our religious freedoms by giving churches millions upon millions of dollars so that they could support their staff and remain open. Yeah, that doesn't sound like that's not Typically if you want to shut down Christianity, you don't start handing them money. It's insane. But I once you take the money, but then you didn't want to follow the rules, like I'm not. I Yeah, I'm having a hard time with this and the cool and all that bunch the liberals, infidels and infra halles. They're trying to destroy it all. And I'm going to show you that in a minute. Liberals, infidels, and infiels, I mean, whatever, whatever, I'll show you that in a minute. The First Amendment is about protecting religious expression, not restricting it. The Supreme Court said, unequivocally, the United States is a Christian nation. Now, he said, the Supreme Court unequivocally said that America is a Christian nation. He said unequivocally. The Supreme Court has not explicitly stated that America is clearly a

53:37 Christian nation. The Court has recognized the secular nature of the American government and the importance of religious freedom for all individuals, regardless of their faith. The Establishment clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from favoring religion over another, or from or form an official national religion. The principle of separation of church and state underscores the idea that the United States is diverse, pluralistic society where individuals are free to practice their religion without government interference. And please note he just says they unequivocally said it's a christiannation. Okay, now maybe he's getting ready to quote the Supreme Court statement where this is said. I want to know the Supreme Court statement where he said it's unequivocal. If it's unequivocal, then read it to me. And now I want to If I need to, I'll call a lawyers who know more about the Supreme Court than I do and say, hey, according to this, they unequivocally said America as a Christian nation. And then they may say something lying, well, if you learned how to read, or they may say something to me like, well if you look at the content. I don't know what they would say to me, but I know immediately with just a couple of seconds of searching, at least AI is saying, no, there's the Supreme Court is not explicitly stated and because I asked, did the Supreme Court say this? Now, if it's out there, AI typically would find it and say, well, according to this nothing, I can do more searching, so I'm just doing real time fact checking. But uh, yeah, he said it unequivocally said it. Well, so if the Supreme Court says something, then it's law.

55:09 I just want to make sure. So if the Supreme and we go along with it, if the Supreme Court said that homosexual marriage is right, do we go along with it? Or do we do we say it's wrong, See it's weird. Sometimes well the Supreme Court said it, well, then it has to be true. But other times the Supreme Court said it, Well, I disagree with the Superpreme Court. So does the Supreme Court have authority? Oh, it only has authority when we agree with it, and it has no authority when we disagree with it. Even if the Supreme Court said America as a Christian nation, that would not make it so unless you're going to say the Supreme Court has ultimate authority, Well, then when they make other rulings, you would have to agree with that as well.

55:51 Right? Would that not be the logical way this would work? How about that? How about that, and then someone's like, yep, no, not how about that. We're at and you can hear him turning pages. I think he's reading from Robert Jeffery's book. Now, maybe the book has the quote from the Supreme Court. I would love to know the context of the quote. Now look at our nation today? Are we a Christian nation like it was intended? Today? Homosexuality is getting out like never before.

56:46 Today in I believe it's New York, two million homosexuals are going to be gathering on gay Pride months. I'm glad this month's over because this month has been about gay pride. Time you turn on your national news here they come out with that flag. A disgrace. I remember as a young person it was a crime for a homosexual to practice it. You would be arrested and put in jail. You saw in your national news about fifty five years ago they had the first gay bar for gaye only one bar, and it was raided by our government by the police. I remember a gay bar in Lexic, Kentucky. We were shocked a gay bar and it was just a few.

57:43 It was a small place, just a few hung out there, but you couldn't get them all in the town town of Lexnon today. What about this transgender business. Now, let's make it very clear. If we want to start, Hey, we want to go back to the good old days where homosexuality was illegal, Well, then let's go back to the good old days and make fornication illegal. Let's go back to the good old days and make divorce illegal. Let's go back to the good old days. And if someone is married, divorce and remarried, they're guilty of adultery and they should be prosecuted. If you want to start going like, hey, we want biblical laws implemented, let's go after all. Oh, which ones? Now, who gets to decide which biblical laws there is imposed? What if they're a seventh day at venice and they want to go to the Old Testament, like you can't eat this, you can't eat this, you can't eat this, you can't eat this, you have to be sacrificed. Well, they wouldn't go with that, that part of the Old Testament. Well, let's just say you go with Well, okay, a Jew, let's say an Orthodox Jew, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta wear this, you can't wear that. You go back to all the Old Testament law. We're gonna go. We're gonna bring all of that doude no no, no, no, no, no no, we don't want that.

58:54 Who gets to decide which biblical law then is imposed upon everyone else? And do you want biblical law imposed upon the unregenerate? Do you want the unregenerate to be now forced to live as something they are not? You want to impose your religious morality upon someone who doesn't hold to your religion. You want to impose your religion and take away their freedom, But you don't want your freedom to be messed with. Oh if Muslims want to real law, oh my goodness, it's the end of the world. But Christians are like, I want to go back to the good old days. Is that what's being promoted here? I don't know if that's what's being promoted. He seems to think that that was a good thing back then, when the government was rating a bar based on the fact that it was You know, people who are tending said bar based on their sexual preference. Taking a little boy and making him a girl, taking a little girl making him a boy by giving him hormones and surgeries, transvestites, sex perversion, pornography, and on and on we could go. So the devil has a grip on our country.

1:00:29 Number two, the devil has a grip on our public school system. The first schools in America were started by the Puritans in the sixteen hundreds. The purpose was to teach children to read the Bible. We got to go back to the Puritans. Do you want to ban Christmas? Do you want to ban the celebration of Christmas? Make it a law? Oh? Do you want to I don't know, accuse people of witchcraft and kill them and you know, have them killed like the Puritans is did in Salem. And let me know, I've been to Salem multiple times. I know the history of Salem, oh and Boston, and that well that the witch charals, the first witch Charles, I think occurred in Boston before they moved over to Salem.

1:01:21 Now, got I got mad respect for a lot of what I mean. That's why I'm always conflicted with Salem. On one hand, I'm horrified at the things that happened in Salem. Horrified. And every time I go there and I go to the different museums and I explore this and explore that, I always come back, depressed and discouraged. At the same time, I've got great respect for the Puritans, because I've read pretty much anything I can get my hands on from the Puritans. I have great respect for a lot of what they did. But at the same time, there were human beings. And again in many parts of that area, Christmas, the celebration of Christmas was just right out banned. Now, how did how did we go from a Christian nation? And now this is this is the million dollar question. How do we go from a Christian nation until where Satan has now his hand or control of America? How did that happen? Did Satan get control because we allowed for pluralism, because we did not impose religious law upon non Christians? Is that how it happened? Or did Satan get control?

1:02:35 Because well, more and more people are not Christians, more and more people don't believe in the Bible, more and more people reject Christianity. Well as more and more people have Remember the way our government works supposedly by the people, for the people, the people get to vote, Well, what if people decide you know what, we don't care what you want. Minority of Christians want, Well, we don't want those rules. Well, guess what, that's the way our government works. See, what we want is they can decide the morality they want to live by as long as obviously we may argue that wait a minute, that puts these people in jeopardy, or that's damaging. We can make an argument there, but the main thing we want is them just not to stop us from our ability to preach and condemn said morality. Wouldn't. The way to resolve the problem of Satan having his control is for the church to evangelize, baptize, and disciple, not read history, not usual, not read, not do to arithmetic or geography, but to teach children the Bible. Now, there was others that got credit later on, a guy you name Horseman. He started a school to teach children

1:04:11 the word of God. Benjamin Franklin, matter of fact, printed and sold the first textbook call New England Primer. But today prayer and Bible reading is not permitted in public schools. They've taken the Ten Commandments off the wall and replaced them with policemen in the hall. And that's great. I'm glad there are policemen in the hall. Maybe to stop some of this school shootings that are going on. There have been over four hundred school shootings since Colibine, over four hundred. So what it sounds like he wants the public school to be a religious institution controlled by which church or which religion. Do you want to be Baptist? Do you want to be Lutheran? Do you want to be Catholic? Do you want to be Jehovah's Witness? Do you want to be Mormons? Do you want to be Satanist? Do you want to be Muslims? Well, I know he doesn't want it to be any other.

1:05:15 He wants it to be a Christian It's a public school. It's not a religious school. Your church can start a school. It's a public school, meaning we live in a pluralistic society. It's not there to simply teach Christianity or promote Christianity. Because it's a public school. They don't want anything to do with God until some tragedy like a school shooting, and they say where was God? Where was God when that happened to those people, I'll tell you where he was. Remember you asked him to leave? Oh my goodness, So kids were shot and killed at Sandy Hook because God was asked to leave. But if God would have been asked to be there, none of that would have happened. Then why is there shootings in churches? Did the church ask God to leave? When someone when a gunman walks into a church.

1:06:35 I mean, hey, churches, you don't need guns, you don't need a security team because you didn't ask God to leave. And if God is there, there'll be no church shootings, there'll be no school shootings. Man, Huh, you're gonna blame dead kids because the public school asks God to leave? Oh but so so? What so when Christians are murdered? Where where was God? Did he they asked him to leave? If so? So, if if you get cancer because you ask God to live? Is this the way we blame victims? You died because your school asked God?

1:07:17 Hey, hey, parent, I'm sorry your child was killed in school, But it's your school's fault because they asked God to leave. I mean, now, your kid should have been asking for God to be there. It's your kid's fault because your kid didn't ask God to be there. Man, mmm, the implications of that are horrifying. I know he doesn't mean it that way, but it's horrifying. You put him out. I remember, first of all, and in nineteen sixty two, they barred prayer from school. They wouldn't even to let a little child pray a little child's prayer.

1:08:31 Oh, for crying out loud, I'm so sick of hearing this. I went to public school my whole life, and I don't know if people understand how prayer works. Just give me a second. I just prayed and asked God to forgive me for my anger. Just what a school doesn't prohibit that? See, you want a public prayer led by? But which kind of prayer do you want? Do you want it to be a Catholic prayer?

1:09:12 What if it's the Rosary? What if it's an Islamic cult prayer? And we face Mecca, No, No, you don't want that. What if it's what if it's a Mormon prayer or a Jehovah's Witness prayer or a one is Pentecostal prayer. No one's stopping the little kid from praying. And also, hey, I got an idea. If you're so worried that the schools aren't praying, why is it that every morning, when kids are on their way to school, you can't find a church open having a prayer meeting. You can open up your front doors and let everyone know in the city that each morning at seven am we have a prayer meeting. All of the kids who want to pray can stop by the church. I bet you the teenagers will be pulling up in large numbers. Oh, we're not going to do it in front of the school at the flagpole where you can get seen and it becomes a big deal. Now, we're just going to do it in the church. No cameras, no TikTok, and no social media.

1:10:15 And you're just gonna come to the church and pray before you go to school. And you can teach your child that they can pray all day without seizing. They don't have to have a teacher leading the prayer. They can pray whenever they want. They can just in their mind talk to God. I don't know what to say. This is where the church is headed, ladies and gentlemen. This is where the church has been, this patriotic, political, hijacked church that seems to be more interested in telling the government and telling people what they should do than us. Focusing on us, our sin, our failure, our weakness, our lack of revival, our lack of godliness and focusing on ourselves and trying to be more godly ourselves. We want to take control of everyone else. We want to control everyone else. We want to tell everyone else what to do, We want to be in charge.

1:11:27 Well, I don't want you in charge. I don't want your Christianity in charge. I don't want you in charge because I don't even know if we were. I don't even know if we believe the same thing at this point, because I'm sure not going to blame people being shot in school because the public school supposedly told God to leave. Because I know shooters walk into churches and kill people inside churches, But if God is there, then he stops all of the shooting. Then I'm sick and tired of churches which teams with guns. You don't need them. You didn't ask God to leave, and no tornado should hit your church. You didn't ask God to leave, and no one in your church should get cancer because you didn't ask God to leave, and no one in your church should ever die because you didn't ask God to leave. But it doesn't work that way, does it. The implications there is insane. Now, I know that's not what was meant. I hope, I'm gonna bet. I'm gonna just I'm gonna just give them the benefit of the doubt that that's not what was meant. But how what else do you infer from that? Mm? Well, I've sinned. I don't

1:12:58 know about you. I've sinned. Yeah, I'm angry, I'm mad, frustrated, bothered, tired of it all. I'm just tired of this, tired of this whole argument that's been promoted for I've heard this promoted so much in my Christian life over and over and over and over and over. And I know you say the word Christian national appeasement. People, people row the rise, we me me me mem Yeah, you know you don't like Christian nationalism. Okay, well, yeah I don't. I don't. I'm sorry, I don't. I just rejected outright. I reject all of this outright completely, one hundred and fifty percent. Now, I will defend everyone's right to promote it, and I will defend everyone's right to preach it, and I want them to be able to preach it, and I'm glad they have the platform to preach it and everything about it. But the one thing that bothers me is like some of this information we are already verified, it's just not even accurate, or there's no support given, there's no there's no citations, there's just claim. And then the people in the church are just saying amen to things that may not even be accurate or at least we initially have information, calling it into great contradiction or claiming that it's not true. I would say this, and I'll end with this. I know Christians love to put this little chart up. Hey, when prayer was taken out of public school, look at how bad things God. At the very same time,

1:14:29 look at how bad things God is in the American church since prayer was supposedly taken out of school. Just well, prayer was taken out of school, and you put a chart up of how many bad things have happened in the school. Go look up the date the prayer was taken out of the school till twenty twenty four, and look up numbers of how many children have been sexually molested and sexually abused inside churches since that date. There's prayer in churches. We saw an article about now there's a booming industry providing security training for churches because church shootings have increased dramatically, at least according to the argument.

1:15:10 Well, if that's the case, what happened? Why Why why is church shootings increase? Why why a sin is increasing in the church. Wait a minute, there's prayer. Nobody ask God to leave. You can email me at news I fit Yahoo dot com. News I fit Yahoo dot com. I make I make no excuse. I've gotten way too angry. I admit that it's a sin. But I'm just a Christian who's a sinner trying to figure this all out. And I don't find myself even welcomed in that form of Christianity. I don't even know what that is. Maybe you do.

1:15:56 Maybe that's your former Christianity, and congratulations, you've got plenty of your that will support your former Christianity. By all means, y'all move forward, promote what you want to promote. I will stand in opposition to it, because no, there's still logical problems. There's logical problems, there's historical problems, and there's just pragmatic problems. Who gets to be in charge? Thanks for listening, God bless