Carbon Emission Life Cycle Assessments 101, 102, and 103. Schools in session with John Beath

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The advantage to the plug in
hybrid is that you get the best

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of both worlds.
You don't have to build all

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those charging stations
necessarily, just charge it at

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home.
When your charge runs out, you

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run off gasoline, but the
advantage to it is you're

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addressing the air pollution
problem from combustion while

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you're driving around town on
your battery.

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Welcome to the Environmental
Transformation Podcast, where we

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bring you interviews with
industry leaders, climate

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champions, sustainability
practitioners, EHS and hazmat

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in their businesses today.

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Now let's get started.
Welcome to the Environmental

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Transformation Podcast.
I'm your host, Sean Grady, and

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today's guest is John Beeth.
He is a Life Cycle Assessment

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certified professional and a
registered professional engineer

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in Texas.
He's also has more than 20 years

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of experience in the
sustainability industry as a

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consultant.
He currently serves as CEO of a

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sustainability environmental
consulting company.

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He's got a bachelor's degree in
Chemical Engineering from

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Georgia Tech and has authored 3
short books on the various

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aspects of sustainability he
currently serves.

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As a member.
Of the board of directors of the

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American Center for Life Cycle
Assessment.

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So, John, welcome to the show.
Thank you.

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Really excited to be here and
good, good set of topics that

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you had picked out for us here,
I think.

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Yeah, No, we're really happy to
have you on and and you know, we

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connected through I think one of
your marketing teams were

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looking to maybe get you on the
show and and we're always

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looking for good guests.
And so for those listeners out

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there that you've got an
interesting topic you'd like to

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bring to the show, always
interested to maybe interview

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those, those potential
candidates and bring them on

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and, and educate our listeners.
So John, before we get in, could

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you give us a little background
on how you get started in life

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cycle assessments and or
analysis and and also the

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sustainability business that
you're running today?

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Yeah, sure.
It's been quite a journey for

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me.
I tell people that I'm

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recovering process engineer.
I got tired of designing things

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that were not destined to be
built quickly, and that's what

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junior engineers and refinery
do.

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I found out, and they never told
me that when I moved into the

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profession to begin with.
So I found a way to escape the

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environmental department and
they convinced me that that

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wasn't where they sent old
soldiers to die, that in fact

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you actually could have a role
in the world.

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And it happened that that was
back in the 80s and things were

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beginning to take shape in the
environmental sector in in a

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bold new way.
And I was able to do a lot of

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first of its kind sort of
activities.

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And Fast forward, I was the guy
who turned out the lights of the

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refinery and sort of moved on
into the consulting world and

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joined a big box consulting
company, was there for quite a

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while.
And while I was there, I had a

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client one day that called me
and asked if we could do a life

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cycle assessment for them.
And like most eager consultants,

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I accept the job.
And then right after the call I

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called my colleagues in the UK
and said what the heck is a life

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cycle assessment and how do I do
1 And that was, you know, that

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was in like 2006.
So, you know, that was 20 years

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ago and a lots happened since
then.

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I left that company at some
point and founded my own company

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now just almost exactly 11 years
ago.

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And that company was just me at
the time.

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And now it's a lot more than
that.

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I wanted to focus on
sustainability and life cycle

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assessment and carbon footprints
and that sort of thing.

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And so that's what this company
has enabled me to do.

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So that's.
Great.

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That's good.
I mean, yeah.

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So.
So the punishment ended up being

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kind of like your passion.
Yeah, absolutely.

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It's true.
And maybe just a few more words

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on, you know, what happened with
that experience, just to sort of

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round that out.
So they told me that they wanted

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to prove that their solar panels
that they were making were

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green.
And I said to myself, well, of

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course they're green.
And they said no, no, an

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investor told them the only way
to do that was to do a life

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cycle assessment.
So I rounded up a team, we went

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to the plant, we cataloged the
raw materials, the utilities,

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the emissions, the waste, the Co
products, the yields, all that

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stuff.
And that's the kind of data you

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need to assess a product across
its life cycle, from the removal

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of raw materials from the earth
all the way through

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transportation, manufacturing,
distribution, installation, use,

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maintenance, all that stuff.
And people do carbon footprints

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as a streamlined version of that
for lots of reasons.

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But what's driving that business
now is customer requests,

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investor demands in an effort to
make claims to try to increase

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market share.
So that's how the game has

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evolved over time, and that's
the kind of exposure we get

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through our client work.
Well, so, so let's break down

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for the, the novice here,
because there's a lot of

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listeners who follow the podcast
and join along who, you know,

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they, they may be practitioners
in this space, but there's a lot

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who aren't, They're just kind of
casual interested parties.

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They, they, they work in the
environmental industry, but they

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maybe not in be involved in
sustainability type activities

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where life cycle analysis is, is
required.

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So let's break this down.
What's the process?

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How does this concept work, you
know, in, in real practice?

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And and let's let's break this
down so we can get them prepared

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for the rest of the
conversation.

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All right.
Well, you know, it is, it is a

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little bit complicated, I'll
admit.

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But at the basis what you're
really trying to do is take a

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flow rate of material and assign
it to an emission factor and

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then end up with a result.
So I call that A * B = C, and

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it's no different than in
traditional environmental world

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how you would do an emissions
inventory.

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What's different about this
though is that if you're doing a

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carbon footprint, at least what
you're chasing really is those

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instances where whatever you're
doing creates a CO2, methane or

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N2O emission to the atmosphere.
And most often that's

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combustion, unless you have a
pipeline of methane and then

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methane is going to leak out of
the pipeline directly.

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You know, you don't need
combustion for that.

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For most other things it you
know, it's about combustion.

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And so if you're a manufacturing
plant, it's pretty

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straightforward.
You have fired process heaters.

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You can understand what that is.
But when you look across the

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life cycle now, it's not just
what you're doing inside your

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plant.
Instead, I'm including the raw

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materials that are coming to you
and how they were made.

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And so there's energy.
Say you've got a bulldozer and

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it's going to mine that material
out of the ground.

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Well, there goes some CO2 from
that.

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And the next thing I'm going to
do is I'm going to grind it up

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maybe, OK, there's some
electrical energy that goes into

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that at the power plant.
There's CO2 for that.

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Now I'm going to put it in the
truck and I'm going to haul it.

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And so guess what the the truck
is burning some sort of fuel or

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it's electric, one or the other.
In either case, it's energy.

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It ties back probably to
combustion at some point.

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And so again, CO2, so we're an
inventory that adds up all those

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steps down the line, even
through the end of the

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manufacturing to distribution.
Again, we got some trucks.

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Maybe it goes into the use
phase.

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And if it's something simple
like a plastic bottle, you might

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say, well, this doesn't really
have a use phase, does it?

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Well, in reality it does because
guess what?

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A lot of people like their
drinking water and they like it

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cold.
So what do they do?

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They put it in the refrigerator.
Well, now that's part of the

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life cycle for your product as
well.

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Yeah.
You know, when you think about

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that, Oh my gosh.
I mean, all the actual inputs

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that you need to consider to
assess a full, I guess, complete

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picture of the life cycle
analysis, that could be pretty

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daunting just trying to
understand all the inputs.

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And then how do you derive, you
know, emission factors for all

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that work?
Well, if you had to go get a CO2

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meter and meter every single one
of those things I just

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described, you'd bankrupt
yourself.

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So the way it works is that
people have already been there,

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done that.
And so they're creating a

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library of information you can
draw from.

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And so there are environmental
databases that store that kind

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of experience based data that
you can then draw on.

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Probably the largest one of
those is is called Eco Invent

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and they have thousands of
factors in there for things you

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can't even imagine that you
might need a factor for.

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And and that's not by any means
the only place where you go and

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that's behind the paywall.
So not everybody gets to use

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that.
But the idea is you're, you're

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adding to some experience and
you have what's called primary

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data because in some cases, you
know how much what, what's the

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electric bill for your plant to
make these plastic bottles?

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Well, OK, I know what my
electric bill is.

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I know how many of these I made.
So now I can give you what's

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called, you know, a really
accurate primary database

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estimate of what my emissions
for this was.

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But if I'm a company and I don't
make the polyethylene beads that

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are used to blow mold the
plastic, then I have to trust

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some secondary data probably for
that.

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And I might go to this database,
I might go to the company and

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say, have you got a carbon
footprint?

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And by the way, if you want me
to buy your product, you know, I

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really want you to share that.
Otherwise, I'm going to find

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somebody else who's willing to
share that.

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And you know, I'll buy their
product.

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Are you, are you when you're
doing these assessments for

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clients and you're, and you're
going through this process, are

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you finding that a lot of these
suppliers of these raw materials

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are providing their carbon
emission factors or input that

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for the impact of the product
they're selling?

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So that way every metric ton or
whatever they're gallon that you

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can use that as an input.
It's a mixed bag and I think it

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depends a lot on what industry
sector you're in.

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In the building product space,
you find a lot of people are

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embodying that into what's
called an environmental product

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declaration or an EPD.
Some of the building trades are

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more and more are beginning to
see a requirement for you to not

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only share the data, but share
it in that form.

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But in lots of other sectors,
it's a lot more random in terms

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of, well, if I'm selling a
product to another business, you

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know, they may make it
conditional that you have to

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provide some data to me or or
I'm not going to buy your

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product.
As we move into consumer

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products, it's even more squishy
there.

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The reason people will do these
kinds of studies is because they

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they maybe have an investor that
wants to get data about that, or

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maybe they want to make a market
claim.

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So if they're going to make a
market claim, they're going to

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try to get as much primary data
as they can, but they are going

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to find those firewalls that
that you mentioned, you know, is

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the supplier willing to share?
Well, that's a changing

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environment.
And what you're finding is

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people that are outside the US
where the regulatory environment

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environment is pushing faster.
Yeah, more likely, like Europe

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and Asia as well.
You'll find that much more

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likely to share that information
because they've been conditioned

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by companies that are in those
locations that that's how things

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are done.
Right, right, right.

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Well, that's, that's awesome.
I mean, so when we look at, you

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know, your journey here, the
catalyst of you starting of this

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business, you've been in the
environmental, you know,

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business over 40 years as an
engineer.

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What was the specific gap where
the problem you were trying to

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solve in the industry that drove
you to write these books that

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you you you wrote, you wrote
three books.

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And once you share a little bit
about your books and talk about

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that, and then, you know, what
was the lack of understanding of

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the process or the prohibitive
cost of the existing tool that

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was like you were trying to fix?
Like what was?

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Tell us a little bit about this.
Well, I, I won't try to pretend

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that I have the universal
solution to that problem, but I

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took some steps down that
highway.

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And so, yeah, the, the thing
that was in my mind was that

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one, I piled up a lot of
experience.

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My company's piled up a lot of
experience.

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I, I felt like, you know, I'm
moving on in my career, it's

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time for me to start sharing
some of that stuff.

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So that was definitely a
motivator.

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But more importantly, a lot of
the information that's out there

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is pretty hard to digest.
You know, it's written for R&D

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engineers and nerdy science
types.

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And if you want a nerd out and
go to those detailed elements,

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that's great.
But for people who aren't

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working in that space every day,
they need a bit of a translator.

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And so that's the rule A.
Little bit so the average guy

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who knows math can do some
stuff.

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Exactly.
And so there were three books

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that ended up coming.
And Full disclosure, I did them

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in part because that's how I
continue to remain certified as

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a certified professional is you
have to publish or parish to a

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certain extent.
And so that was part of my

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pathway to, to holding on to my
credentials.

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But I also wanted to do the
things that I told you.

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So it's it's a balancing act.
Anyway, three books.

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One was a specific need for a
friend that we had who was an

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organic farmer.
And I felt like all the things

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that have been written about how
to footprint a farm were really

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hard to, to get your arms
around.

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And so written so that a farmer
could actually do their own

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footprint and need a master's
in, you know, environmental

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engineering to be able to walk
through that.

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So it's very simplistic.
It's very, pardon the pun, down

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to earth, but you know, that's
the sort of thing that I felt

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like was really neat.
So let me.

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Let me generate a direct real
quick.

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Do you get any interest from,
say, universities, agricultural

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universities that come and talk
about this in a class or course

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or anything?
Probably because not many of

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them go browsing around on our
website and try to find that it,

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it is something that I'd love to
be able to do.

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But frankly, no, that hasn't
been an issue.

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We're kind of in our little
silo, you know, we're, we're the

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00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,040
company that nobody knows
anything about and that's one of

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the reasons we're trying to
change that is to get some of

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00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,560
this information out there.
So.

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Well, we'll help you do that,
yeah.

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People will know who the
translators are and and who they

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00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,480
might be able to rely on.
So that leads me to the second

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effort.
And these are numbered by the

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00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,440
way, LCA one O 1, LCA one O 2
and LCA one O 3.

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00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,760
Kind of tongue in cheek, but.
It's like going taking my

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00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,160
college courses, you know?
Yeah, exactly.

288
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,000
And that's that's the intent
except college, not College in

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00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:59,000
this case.
SO1O2 is a little bit more of a

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00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,320
heavy duty nature.
And this was inspired because of

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00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,000
the fact that there's so many
come people that are coming into

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00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:12,000
the electric vehicle space that
have an agenda and they gather

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00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,920
up some data and they try to to
convince people that they're

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00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,840
right and that here's why you
should move in a certain

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00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,200
direction.
And I got really tired of that.

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00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,520
And so we got hired by an oil
company and by trade association

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00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,000
to really look objectively into
that.

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00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,480
And we did and we learned an
awful lot about that.

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And so the book is a
methodology.

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00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,520
It's how do you analyze a
situation in a very objective,

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00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,920
scientific, comprehensive way
and draw some good conclusions

302
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,440
about the trade-offs that
happened there.

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00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:43,920
So that's what that book is
about.

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00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,680
The third one, LCA one O 3 was a
horse of completely different

305
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,040
color.
This was I'm tired of people

306
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,960
coming to me and saying, you
know, I can't do carbon

307
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,880
footprints because I I can't
afford the the price of a big

308
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,040
database, but I really want to
have something I can roll around

309
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,840
in and try some things.
So one day the idea popped in my

310
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,960
head that there's a database
that's free from the government,

311
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,760
that is environmental emission
factors for all of the things

312
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,280
that go into a car.
And if you think about a car,

313
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,640
it's plastic, there's metal,
there's wire, there's glass,

314
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,880
there's all this cool stuff.
And all those factors are in

315
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,320
that database.
So I said, well, why don't I

316
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,520
just extract those that
information out there, put it in

317
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,760
a table, put a nice little front
end in it and create some

318
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,280
examples where you actually
footprint some comparisons and

319
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,160
roll that into a book.
And so that's what I did.

320
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,480
And so not only is the book out
there, but also you have the

321
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,640
ability to download the the
workbook itself and actually

322
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,520
play around with it yourself.
Well, so how many companies can,

323
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,680
you know, view the LCA as a
black box and handle it by, you

324
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,960
know, expensive specialist now?
I mean it seems like there's a

325
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,520
little big business in this
space for that.

326
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,280
How does your hands on approach
solve the problem of

327
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,280
accessibility for the average
engineer or small business

328
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,680
owner?
Yeah, that's, that's a subject

329
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,240
that's really near and dear to
my heart.

330
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,960
You really struck A chord when
you got that.

331
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,960
So the, the simple solution that
I just described to you, LCA one

332
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,000
O 3, the the little workbook I
have only focuses on raw

333
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,319
materials.
It's a piece of that supply

334
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,440
chain.
But what we find is a lot of

335
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,400
products that are made might
find 90 or even more percent of

336
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,920
the overall footprint might be
in the raw materials.

337
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,280
So if you want to do
comparisons, that's a good place

338
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,160
to start.
It is by no means a tool that's

339
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,200
going to replace an LCA database
because it's only looking at the

340
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,720
front end of your problem.
But it allows you to get in,

341
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,840
roll around, understand the
process.

342
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,480
Now parallel from that, I, I am
extremely concerned about

343
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,080
working with black spot, black
box LCA databases because I've

344
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,600
been working with them
throughout my career.

345
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,840
And I don't like the, the way
you can't really see the work.

346
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,040
You can't really understand what
it's doing.

347
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,720
And so for the last 10 years,
we've been working to develop a

348
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,880
parallel solution.
Basically, it's an Excel

349
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,760
workbook that does everything
that the Open LCA model does

350
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,600
with a couple of restrictions,
OK, But it does those

351
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,880
calculations in the same
detailed way, not just for for

352
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,160
carbon, but for other
environmental impacts like

353
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:27,160
sidification, ozone depletion,
energy toxicology, all the

354
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,600
things that are part of these
environmental impact factor

355
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,480
sets.
So we did that because we really

356
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,040
wanted to be able to answer the
question for our clients that

357
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,880
say, OK, you got this answer
from your database.

358
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,000
How do you know it's right?
How do you check that?

359
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,960
And so we said, OK, well, you
know, what do you do normally

360
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,000
when someone says to check that,
well, you get a piece of paper

361
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,800
and you write down some numbers
and you look up the factors and

362
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,360
you basically do manually, you
know, a, a set of calculations

363
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:00,760
for, you know, one of the
elements, say a raw material to

364
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,360
see if it looks like the box is
doing its right way.

365
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,240
Well, or you might use Excel to
do that.

366
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,360
And so that led to the leap of
faith.

367
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,120
Faith that was OK.
Well, why don't we just do all

368
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,120
those calculations and then
we'll know for sure.

369
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,560
We've checked everything.
And then we said, well, if we're

370
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,040
going to go to the trouble to do
that, maybe there's a reason why

371
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,880
our clients may want to do that.
Because then it becomes a what

372
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,840
if tool that's transparent.
They can see all the activities,

373
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,200
they can QA it, and they're
going to get a huge amount of

374
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:35,200
benefit from it by people using
it who aren't people that are in

375
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,440
the LCA database tool every day.
Because that takes to be

376
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,760
effective with those things.
Any kind of complicated

377
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,240
software, any kind of modeling
software, if you're not working

378
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,000
with it regularly, you're going
to struggle.

379
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,640
But the nice thing with Excel is
you can look at it, you know, I

380
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,400
don't care what you were working
on 30 minutes ago or for the

381
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,080
last two months, you can look at
that Excel and kind of go, yeah,

382
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,120
I see what's going on here.
OK, that's great.

383
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,880
And by that transparency, it's
also a really good QA tool on

384
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,200
your data.
So as you're looking at it and

385
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,360
we have a tie to some graphs and
tables so that when you put in

386
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,800
the results, you can see right
in front of you what's

387
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,080
happening.
And if you see things that you

388
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,960
aren't expecting, you can you
can drill down into them and

389
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,440
then obviously you can make
changes to it and see how the

390
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,000
results play out.
So we're really excited about

391
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,080
it.
We're doing our second project

392
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,880
now to use that tool and we
have.

393
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,760
Cross checked it against the
open LCAA to see if we could get

394
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,800
exactly the same results and we
did.

395
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,680
So that's where we are.
Hello ET Nation, I want to thank

396
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,400
you for listening to the podcast
if.

397
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,240
You're enjoying the interviews.
We bring you Consider supporting

398
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,280
the program by visiting my
website at seankgrady.com and

399
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,960
buy me a cup of coffee.
Proceeds will go towards helping

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me continue producing timely
content and offset production

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00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,280
costs.
I'd also like to take a moment

402
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,800
and recognize a few of our
sponsors of the show who have

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That's cascade-env.com.

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Well, I mean, so why is this,

442
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,600
why is the transparency of, you
know, in formulas and the

443
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,200
ability of the user to, you
know, basically see the guts of

444
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,800
this, this actual process and
all the calculations that you

445
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,800
put into the, you know, into the
formulas there inside the Excel.

446
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,320
Why is that so important and so
vital for the credibility of the

447
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,440
sustainability claims and so?
You know, it is, it is just

448
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,040
that.
And what's interesting is that

449
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,760
when you do a life cycle
assessment, if you're going to

450
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720
share the results and make a
claim, you're supposed to have a

451
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,960
third party reviewed, which
means theoretically someone's

452
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,040
looking over your shoulder.
Well, additionally, what has

453
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,000
happened with that in large
measure, and I have done third

454
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,400
party review myself.
So I speak from a little bit of

455
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,240
experience, This centroid of how
those reviewers tend to approach

456
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,520
things is there's a list of
things that ISO says have to be

457
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,720
in your life cycle assessment,
you know, has to have go and

458
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,520
scope, has to have system
foundry, has to have functioning

459
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,640
and all these things that are
supposed to be in your report.

460
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,960
And so it becomes a checklist.
Got this, got this, got this,

461
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,720
got this.
OK, great.

462
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,480
Therefore you have a great LCA
report.

463
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,840
I'm your reviewer.
You met all the requirements and

464
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,360
ISO.
Have a nice day, right.

465
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,840
I got a fundamental problem with
that because you didn't say and

466
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,520
by the way, I checked all the
numbers to make sure that you

467
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,920
really did the calculations in
in a comprehensive and effective

468
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,760
way.
And the problem is when you have

469
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,440
a model, the only way that you
could really have a way to do

470
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,520
that would be to literally take
every step that the person who

471
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,880
set up the model did.
Well, who wants to pay for that

472
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,600
twice?
No one, right?

473
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,680
So that's why having this
transparent thing allows the

474
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,120
auditor, the reviewer, to
actually say, yeah, I actually

475
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,160
checked the math.
I can see what's going on.

476
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,760
I know that it's doing the A * B
= C and it's got the right A's,

477
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,960
it's using the right B's.
And yeah, the C answer

478
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,000
benchmarks.
It looks effective.

479
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,800
You know it it, you know it's
the right answer, or within some

480
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,280
range of accuracy anyway.
Sure.

481
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,680
Sure.
No, that's good.

482
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,440
I mean, and I think you, like I
said, it just elevates the, the,

483
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,760
the, the power of the tool and,
and the credibility of the

484
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,240
calculations and the outcome.
So that's, that's excellent.

485
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,040
If we talk about the, the, you
know, selecting factors, you

486
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,840
know, I think a lot of people
are trying to always figure out

487
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,400
where do I get this factors
emission factor for a typical

488
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,240
type of product or, you know,
raw material.

489
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,560
But that seems like a major
hurdle for for beginners and

490
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,720
knowing which emission factor to
use.

491
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,720
So why do you anchor in your
books the Argonne National Labs

492
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,480
Greek model as as kind of like
your main source of, you know,

493
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,280
factors that you, you know, have
the readers translate to the

494
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,880
most complex data sets?
Well, it doesn't hurt that I've

495
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,400
been working with the people at
Oregon lab for ever since Greek

496
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,400
was, you know, first developed
frankly.

497
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,400
And we've actually contributed
to some of that content.

498
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:15,520
We created some tools that are
are that slave off of the

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,280
information that's in Greek that
they have made part of their

500
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,760
package actually.
So we're extremely familiar with

501
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,360
that.
But that being said, you know,

502
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,200
it's run by the government.
It it's based on a lot of

503
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,160
publicly available government
data like from EIA and other

504
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,840
government agencies.
And it gets updated every year.

505
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,960
And it also gets peer reviewed
fairly well.

506
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,600
And so I have a lot of
confidence in what's in there.

507
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,720
Now the bad news is if this is
not a material that goes in your

508
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,240
car, then you're not going to
find it in there.

509
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,200
So you're going to have to go
somewhere else to find those

510
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,280
factors.
And so a lot of what many people

511
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,000
do is they just in today's world
of AI, you just go to your

512
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:01,200
computer and you say carbon
footprint for shampoo and you're

513
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,400
going to get some studies for
that and trust but verify.

514
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,360
It's amazing now how AI is going
to be used to if for some of the

515
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,000
work that we're doing in the
environmental space.

516
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,360
And yeah, you just prompted with
a question.

517
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,640
It's going to give you kind of
like, oh, here's all the raw

518
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,960
materials that go into, you
know, shampoo for a carpet and

519
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,880
bam, you.
Know yeah, and you'll get some

520
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,080
answers too but the most
important thing is it's going to

521
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,360
point you to the sources.
And so then then we do as

522
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,920
scientists is we're going to
open up that source by the way,

523
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000
if it's actually there every now
and then you will find that it

524
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,920
tells you that a source exists
and it doesn't actually we have

525
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,000
had that experience but if you
open it up you're looking for

526
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,880
things like was it peer
reviewed?

527
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,040
How did they do their what sort
of assumptions do they make What

528
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,960
sort of credentials even do the
people have that that worked on

529
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,840
that those are all things that
you can do and then if you're

530
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,520
like most people you want to try
to benchmark that as well.

531
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,000
So I don't want just one study.
I really want 2 studies that I

532
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,640
can compare against each other.
Now I'm feeling really good

533
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,680
about it.
And the third thing I might do

534
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,000
as a practitioner, you know I, I
have these in eco event factors.

535
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,800
I have access to them all you
know they're behind the paywall.

536
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,680
I can use those to benchmark the
study so that way the the client

537
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,800
doesn't have to pay for the eco
invent factor because here it is

538
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,840
it's publicly available in this
study you know and yeah, quietly

539
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,520
I told the client by the way.
I checked it against Eco Invent

540
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,920
and I probably am not going to
be able to say that in the

541
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,120
report, but that gives the a
little bit more confidence,

542
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,200
yeah.
Right, right.

543
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,880
Absolutely.
Well, you know, there's been a

544
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,800
lot of going on in in the
environmental world these days.

545
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:46,280
EPA has, interestingly enough,
pulled back some new, you know,

546
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,720
rules.
The endangerment clause of air

547
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,120
emission was recently rescinded,
You know, so if we look at,

548
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,160
let's say your LCAA one O yeah,
one O 2, which is around the

549
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,320
electric vehicles, you know, in
your book in the in the electric

550
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,000
vehicles, you challenge
one-size-fits-all narrative in

551
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,920
in electrification.
So what are the most critical,

552
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,080
often overlooked variables such
as grid intensity, battery

553
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,480
weight, you know, and what you
know, can that completely be

554
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,640
flipped with the results of you
know, of the EV versus the the

555
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,200
internal combustion engine
comparison now or you know that

556
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,240
we're these new rules are going
to be affecting.

557
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,640
Well, first of all, the
endangerment finding situation

558
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,840
really doesn't impact much of
anything.

559
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,640
That said, in the book that we
wrote, the fact that some people

560
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,320
in the government have decided
that greenhouse gases don't

561
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,880
threaten, you know, human health
and therefore they're they're

562
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,400
not endangering us.
You know, it's a completely

563
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,640
separate issue.
If if you're still interested in

564
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,040
making an impact on carbon, then
you still want to study the

565
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,960
electric vehicle.
You still want to figure out,

566
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,080
you know, where it makes sense
and where it doesn't.

567
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,320
And not just with electric
vehicles, but anything that is

568
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,800
powered by a fuel source that's
not fossil fuel.

569
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,920
You know, these are the kinds of
things that you may want to

570
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,800
think about.
But for the for the EV in

571
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,080
particular, one of the things
that struck me right on the head

572
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,080
when I first started looking at
it is the temperature impacts.

573
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,800
And people have always talked
about them, you know, in terms

574
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,280
of that being, you know, a
strong part of the process.

575
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,480
And it absolutely is, however,
in ways that you might not think

576
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,040
about directly.
So people think about how the

577
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,200
battery performs when it's hot
outside.

578
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,800
OK, that's great.
But that's not really the the

579
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,160
big effect that's that, you
know, an internal combustion

580
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,240
engine is heating up your cab
when it's hot out or when it's

581
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,560
cold inside, you want it to be
hot inside.

582
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,080
So you get that benefit of the
internal combustion engine with

583
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,200
an EV.
Guess what, No combustion.

584
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,640
So now that's it becomes a tax
on your battery.

585
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,600
Part of your power that you're
counting on has to go into

586
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,040
heating the vehicle.
And that is a carbon footprint

587
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,400
balancing act issue.
But the one that I found even

588
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,520
more intriguing than that was
how you charge your car.

589
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,520
So that battery in order to
protect itself, has temperature

590
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,480
monitoring with it that says,
hey, you're only allowed to

591
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,440
charge me if the temperature is
within a certain range.

592
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,400
And if it's too cold, I'm going
to activate a heating element

593
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,840
and I'm going to heat up the
area around the battery so you

594
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,560
don't damage your battery.
On the other side of the coin,

595
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,240
if it's too hot out there in in
where your your battery lives,

596
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,280
I'm going to engage a fan and
I'm going to try to cool down

597
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,800
that battery.
And I'm not going to let you

598
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,840
charge it until I've cooled down
the cargo space enough to where

599
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,160
the battery is the right
temperature.

600
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,960
Well, you're not going to find
those results on your EPA

601
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,240
sticker for your EV.
They're not part of what happens

602
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,160
because they don't happen as you
operate the vehicle.

603
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,360
They're not part of your
efficiency, but actually they

604
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,960
are if you take a life cycle
approach to this.

605
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,440
So those are really important
things.

606
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,720
Where you charge your vehicle is
really important.

607
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,520
Say you live in Chicago and your
junks in your garage instead of

608
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,760
your car.
No one would ever let that

609
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,720
happen, right?
But if that's your case, then

610
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,000
you're going to pay a huge tax
for heating out this car

611
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,240
outside, whereas instead, if you
charge it in your car or in your

612
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,200
garage, get rid of the junk.
That would be a great place for

613
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880
you to be.
And furthermore, if you really

614
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,720
want to up your game even a
little bit further, then you

615
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,880
might insulate your garage also
so that now you're not have to

616
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,280
having to take that head start
either when it's hot or cold.

617
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,480
Insulation will help you both
ways with respect to that.

618
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,080
So, but there are, there are
things that matter a lot that

619
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,320
were part of the study that we
did and they're part of the

620
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,480
book.
The key thing obviously is the

621
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,480
grid and what's going on in the
state where you are operating.

622
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,960
It's, it's no secret that as you
look at the say the Eastern

623
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,720
Seaboard state, so you can see,
you know that West Virginia,

624
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,800
Kentucky, they're a coal
weighted grid.

625
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,680
And so the, the electric
vehicles aren't going to do as

626
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,440
well there in terms of carbon
reduction, right.

627
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,760
And surprisingly, if you look at
EV sales, one of the biggest

628
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,360
places where EVs are selling
right now is in California.

629
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,960
And unfortunately in California,
the grid is really pretty good.

630
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,360
So the net benefit of putting
EVs, if you could pick wherever

631
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,040
you want them, you wouldn't put
them in California.

632
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960
You would put them, you know,
every single vehicle you could

633
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,160
replace in West Virginia, you'd
try to.

634
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,080
The problem is we have customers
and customers have preferences

635
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,240
and they have geographic
locations.

636
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,000
So are you going to get demand
to line up with what is the best

637
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,920
for the environment overall?
Probably not.

638
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,520
But at least you can understand
what those forces mean and how

639
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,880
to put them in perspective.
And that's what the book tried

640
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,760
to do.
Yeah, cuz when you think about

641
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760
the grid, I mean not like you
just mentioned, not all

642
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:04,000
utilities are the same when it
comes to delivering the power

643
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,720
and, and their source of power
and, and the emissions that are

644
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,840
involved with generating that
power for the utility.

645
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:15,639
And I, you know, having a grasp
of that and where certain

646
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,239
factors are going to play into
the equation versus, you know,

647
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,480
in a location that may be a
hydropowered company or, or, you

648
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,719
know, somewhere like that.
That's that's like you got to

649
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,560
really know your stuff.
And actually just as a side

650
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,239
note, I have to have to react to
your the use of hydropower there

651
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,920
because hydropower is uniquely
different from wind and solar.

652
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239
They all have a burden that
caused that results from, you

653
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360
know, the equipment part of it.
And I haven't mentioned capital

654
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,560
equipment, but that's also part
of the footprint.

655
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,480
Theoretically, it's typically a
minor player, but with those

656
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,199
people who are using
hydroelectric power, one of the

657
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,880
things that's been often
overlooked is the impacts from

658
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,600
the reservoir.
So when you create a hydropower

659
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,320
plant, typically there's a
reservoir that's associated with

660
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,640
it.
When you bring that reservoir

661
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,080
into being, what are you doing?
Well, you're flooding land.

662
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,880
And as you do, the biological
growth that was in that area

663
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,840
that you flooded is going to off
gas for years and years and

664
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
years.
And they are now starting to

665
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,600
measure exactly what that is and
therefore define the

666
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,120
hydroelectric power plant
footprint as not 0.

667
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,480
It's it's certainly not like
burning fossil fuels, but it's

668
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,640
not 0.
And so that's part of how the

669
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,400
life cycle assessment science
evolves over time as we learn

670
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,160
things and we get a broader
perspective, even more than we

671
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,960
had before, about what really
matters and what doesn't and how

672
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:42,440
much.
Well.

673
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040
OK, so let's, let's, let's take
this other kind of interesting

674
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,560
question because I think a lot
of people are like, hey, it

675
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,080
takes as much carbon and impacts
to build an EV car as it does

676
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,560
like a gas combustion, internal
combustion car.

677
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,960
Or maybe it takes more, I don't
know.

678
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,600
But maybe through your
experience, could you kind of

679
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,240
shed some light on the pros and
cons of this just cuz maybe the

680
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:12,360
listener is just saying, I want
to do what's best to buy the

681
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:18,080
right car related to its carbon
emission impact, say over its

682
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,160
lifespan that I'm going to have
the car versus me buying a

683
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:25,880
internal combustion car and just
buying fuel to power it, you

684
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,960
know, over time.
And then the cost benefit

685
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,200
analysis, I mean, what what's
your take on that?

686
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Because I'm sure you're kind of
looking at that as well.

687
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,480
Well, it, it definitely is
complicated.

688
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,440
First of all, a lot of people
will raise their hand and say,

689
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,240
oh, it's the battery.
You know, that's the reason why

690
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,680
these EVs, their, their
footprint really isn't that

691
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,480
great.
And if you assess the battery,

692
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,120
you'll figure out that, you
know, whatever fuel savings

693
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,040
there is gets weighed out by how
carbon intensive it is to make

694
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,400
the battery.
Well, I, I think that's been,

695
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,040
that's been gas lit and proven
not to be the key aspect.

696
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,760
It, it is an important aspect,
but in terms of percentage, the

697
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,080
use phase and the use of the
power plant or internal

698
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,800
combustion is going to wet far
outweigh that element of it.

699
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,720
And we studied this in a very
detailed way for a bus

700
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,920
manufacturer.
We built a, a carbon comparison

701
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:22,600
tool for them, which basically
compares diesel buses to CNG to

702
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,040
hybrid to electric buses.
And we did this because their

703
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,440
customers really want to know if
I'm if I'm buying a fleet of

704
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,800
buses and I had diesel buses
before and now I have CNG or now

705
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,400
I have electric, what exact
footprint am I going to

706
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:41,400
difference am I going to make?
Because say I'm a city or a

707
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,840
university, they actually have
carbon reduction plans and they

708
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680
have to literally fact factor
this kind of information into

709
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,200
it.
So we worked with the

710
00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,400
manufacturer of the space of the
year to collect a bunch of data

711
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,920
and try to come to, you know,
what's probably not the be all

712
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,560
end all, but it's a, it's a good
estimation tool to be able to

713
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,280
say, yeah, pretty clearly this
is and this is how it works out.

714
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,480
And as you might expect, the
electric buses are pretty much

715
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,280
always going to win the
equation, but it's by how much?

716
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,000
And it gets to, again, where,
where is the footprint?

717
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,000
But there's, there's another
important aspect which I haven't

718
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,040
brought in so far, but I will.
And that's the role of the plug

719
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,280
in hybrid vehicle, which is
where I've been living in my own

720
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,920
personal space for the last 10
years.

721
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,800
I have personally driven a plug
in hybrid vehicle and I believe

722
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,520
that's the ultimate solution to
the problem for the short term

723
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,840
because the challenge electric
vehicles have is the ability to

724
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,360
have cruise range based on where
the chargers are, the cost of

725
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,000
what charging is and the time it
takes to charge.

726
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,120
All those things are dramatic
issues.

727
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,760
And you know the IRA was going
to fix all of that.

728
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,600
Well, when that got rescinded.
Now where's the money going to

729
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,240
come from not only for the
charging stations that we might

730
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,960
need ultimately, but also so for
the power plants.

731
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:03,000
We're we're already competing
for power plant bandwidth with

732
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,240
the data centers and how AI is
driving that to a higher level

733
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,360
of power demand.
That's the the EVs are going to

734
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,560
report are going to compete for
that.

735
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,760
The advantage to the plug in
hybrid is that you get the best

736
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,960
of both worlds.
You don't have to build all

737
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,640
those charging stations
necessarily.

738
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,680
Just charge it at home.
When your charge runs out, you

739
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,200
run off gasoline.
But the advantage to it is

740
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,760
you're addressing the air
pollution problem from

741
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,080
combustion while you're driving
around town on your battery.

742
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,080
And when you're out on the
highway, you run out of battery

743
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,480
and now I'm on fossil fuel.
But guess what?

744
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,360
They're you're you're not
exhausting all that information

745
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,960
into the breathing zone of
people.

746
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,360
So it's a, it's a really good
trade off.

747
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,960
So that's not going to get you
to the goal as fast as an EV

748
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,360
will, but it's going to put
points on the board that much

749
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,400
more quickly because we don't
have the charging, we don't have

750
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,880
the power plants to go all the
way to the end of the tunnel.

751
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,960
But we could pretty much convert
every new vehicle to a plug in

752
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,760
hybrid and we would get points
on the board way, way faster if

753
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,240
we did that.
So when you did, you also factor

754
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,720
in the cost of the vehicles and
stuff we did because a lot of

755
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,640
the EVs are a lot more expensive
in a lot of cases than a normal

756
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,240
internal combustion car.
And I'm thinking average Family

757
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:25,000
Guy who just, you know, needs to
get a good, you know, $15,000

758
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,480
car to, you know, run for a
good, you know, 100,000 miles or

759
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,040
whatever, you know, until he's
ready, whatever it is.

760
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,400
I mean, when I look at those
types of decisions versus an EV

761
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,800
versus like that, I start to go,
it doesn't make as much sense as

762
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,520
an EV versus that because I just
feel like it seems like it's a

763
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,280
better, more cost effective and
less impact since you've already

764
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,560
the car's already been built.
Like I don't not buying a new

765
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:52,680
car, I'm buying a used car,
right?

766
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,400
You know, type thing.
Well, there's a lot to unpack

767
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,560
with with that.
One of the things about electric

768
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,320
vehicles is the more the vehicle
weighs, and I'm not talking

769
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,760
about the weight of the battery,
we're talking about the vehicle

770
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,320
overall.
The more it weighs, typically

771
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,640
the the less well it's going to
perform.

772
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:16,520
So that the four door sedan,
really small electric vehicles,

773
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,840
which is kind of why Tesla went
down that road.

774
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,720
The smaller the vehicle, the
better it's going to perform in

775
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:23,400
all those categories you just
talked about.

776
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,600
But if we're talking a Suburban,
a Yukon, you know, even a pickup

777
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,240
truck, that's a more challenging
space.

778
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,040
And that's why people have been
really slow to conquer that

779
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,160
marketplace.
There's another really dramatic

780
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,440
force here, and I don't know
where that's going to happen,

781
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,440
but it could be a shockwave for
this.

782
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,720
And that is the price of
vehicles for electric in Asia is

783
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,680
shockingly low.
You can buy an electric vehicle

784
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,000
in China for a small fraction of
what things are here in the US,

785
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,520
and of course those those
Chinese vehicles are enjoying

786
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,280
from coming into the US at this
point.

787
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,600
If that were to change, this
whole discussion we had might

788
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,480
change dramatically.
Yeah, well, I mean, I just saw

789
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,040
that didn't didn't Ford going to
start building a smaller unit

790
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,800
type electrical car?
It's like AI don't know 2 seater

791
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,760
truck or something that's like.
Ford is really conflicted and

792
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,160
they they pulled away from the
electric F-150, Yeah.

793
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,280
And I was surprised to see that,
but you know, I think they're,

794
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,360
they're uncertain as a lot of
people are.

795
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,120
And and again, I I'm the voice
for the plug in hybrid as the

796
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,640
the hedge solution that will
that you can do while the

797
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,120
marketplace sorts itself out.
The hybrid to me is the best

798
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,040
choice.
I I would, I would totally agree

799
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,400
with you there, John.
I think that, and I was looking

800
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,240
to get a hybrid just recently,
but ended up going a different

801
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:55,000
direction, but I, I like the
hybrid because of all the

802
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,400
reasons you just mentioned.
I mean it, you know, you get the

803
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,600
benefit of battery charging and
then you know, when you run out,

804
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,120
you, you, you've got, you know,
you can, you know, fuel, but.

805
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,080
Do what you want and, and just
as an example, during COVID,

806
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,840
when I had my previous vehicle,
I went three months without

807
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,520
buying gas.
And that was really helpful when

808
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,960
you're in COVID and you really
didn't want to be roaming

809
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,720
around, being around other
people and so forth.

810
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:26,360
So we could just run my errands,
do my thing, come back to my

811
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,240
house and I stayed within the
battery's limits.

812
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:33,440
Now I upgraded, now I have a, a
Chrysler Pacifica minivan and it

813
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,600
will do 33 miles instead of the
23 that I had before.

814
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,200
So now when I'm in town, I
almost never end up having to

815
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,120
use fossil fuel.
And when I go to Houston to go

816
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,360
take a flight, I live in
Beaumont, TX, that's 80 miles to

817
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,000
that airport.
I'm going to end up using some

818
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,720
gas, but I don't do that all
that often, so it fits my

819
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,520
lifestyle.
Well, I think the big challenge

820
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,760
with a lot of the people
adopting is the, the grid, the,

821
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,840
the charging grid that's out
there.

822
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,240
And and you know, I think that's
the biggest I think limitation

823
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,400
for growth right now is that.
Absolutely.

824
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,320
There's not enough charging
ports.

825
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,080
And I mean, just think of all
the people that live in like

826
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,240
apartments, you know, or rental
things like they, they don't

827
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:22,400
have the infrastructure to put
that stuff in their their, in

828
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,240
their living spaces.
So you're just not going to get

829
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,160
the big adoption.
I don't think as much as we'd

830
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,640
like to see, but.
Yeah, this is a suburban

831
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,600
solution.
There's there's no other way to

832
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:32,640
describe it.
Yeah.

833
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Yeah, yeah.
That's good.

834
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,520
That's good.
Well, let's keep going here.

835
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,280
When we talk about, you know,
this policy shift that's

836
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,880
recently happened, you know, the
greenhouse gas engagement

837
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,240
finding being rebuild the
federal motor vehicle standard

838
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:47,880
for the federal motor vehicle
standards, the regulatory

839
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:51,760
landscape is shifting
significantly.

840
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,160
In your view, does this make
data-driven LCA more or less

841
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,720
important for automotive
manufacturer?

842
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,400
I think the auto manufacturers
are going to continue to be

843
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,480
pressured by their consumers.
Focus factors like Europe and

844
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,600
others.
Well, not just that, but their

845
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,160
consumers focus.
So just because the government

846
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,080
thinks that climate change is
not an issue, that doesn't mean

847
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,000
the consumers feel that way,
right?

848
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,640
And and so as long as there's
that universe of consumers that,

849
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,160
you know, are willing to be open
to the problem and open to the

850
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,200
solution, but want to use that
cost lens.

851
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,880
And that's a really important
part of LCA is it doesn't

852
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,600
actually provide that cost lens.
There was a phenomenon 15 years

853
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,520
ago called life cycle cost,
which basically was an LCA with

854
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,080
a cost layer on top of it.
And that never really caught on.

855
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,640
But at some point maybe it will
come back in because just

856
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,120
reducing carbon with a passion
without contemplating carefully

857
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,120
what the cost will be of that,
that's not really sustainability

858
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,800
because sustainability is, is
this something that you can keep

859
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,160
doing Well?
If it's something that is

860
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,120
hurting your lifestyle because
you're spending too much money

861
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,080
on it, then you went too far.
So the balancing act is to say I

862
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,560
want a carbon benefit, but I
want to pay a fair price for it.

863
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,400
And so that's, that's what the
consumer should be thinking

864
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,280
about, whether he's a business
consumer, you know, whether he's

865
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,040
buying a car or whatever.
It's cost and benefit.

866
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:21,800
That's how engineers are
trained.

867
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,520
That's how we should be
thinking.

868
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,160
Well, do you think this policy
policy shift is going to maybe

869
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,920
produce more hybrids versus
fully electrics?

870
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,320
I think what's going to produce
more hybrids is the fact that

871
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:41,040
you really can't make a trip
across the country in an EV

872
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,200
without it being extremely
inconvenient.

873
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,920
And I think most people that buy
cars have it in their mind

874
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,160
they're going to take a
vacation.

875
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,160
And do they really want to plan
their vacation around where the

876
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,040
charging stations are?
Some people will say, yeah, I'm,

877
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,160
I'm all in the car, but I'm
going to do that.

878
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,560
But that's really not even my
boat.

879
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,600
So, you know, I think that's
what's going to drive it more

880
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,760
than anything else.
And of course, the IRA was going

881
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,760
to put those charging stations
out there at a huge cost.

882
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,720
And for whatever reason, we
don't have that part of the IRA.

883
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,440
So that's not going to happen.
So how quickly will we get the

884
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,520
kind of charger density we need
to make EVs ubiquitous without

885
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,560
the government spend into that?
I think it's going to be a slow

886
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:26,560
process.
Well, you know, so with EPA

887
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,160
stepping back a bit on this with
the greenhouse gas standards

888
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,960
now, do you believe like
independent environmental

889
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,280
product declarations will become
of the primary way mark the the

890
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,160
market rather than the
government determines which

891
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,400
vehicles are truly green now?
That's a good question.

892
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,880
You know, only a few
manufacturers have so far gone

893
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,800
down the EPD route.
In fact, they're, they're, I'm

894
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,440
not aware of really many US
manufacturers that have done it.

895
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,640
There are some foreign
manufacturers that have.

896
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,040
So will the EP DS become more
more prevalent?

897
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,400
I think as as people get more
comfortable with how they're

898
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,200
done and as we start to
streamline the process, which

899
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,800
there are efforts underway to do
that by both consultants and

900
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:15,440
program operators that are the,
are the places where these EP DS

901
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,520
are stored.
That process is evolving pretty

902
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,720
rapidly in part because people
are using AI to streamline it to

903
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,960
a small extent, although trust
but verify.

904
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,440
That's my watchword whenever you
bring that up.

905
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,280
But it it's, it is a changing
landscape.

906
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,800
I think people are still going
to be involved with carbon for

907
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,720
quite some time to come.
And it's always been, you know,

908
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,720
a roller coaster of up and down
based on different events, kind

909
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:46,200
of like the stock market.
And I think that's going to

910
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,120
continue.
I, I don't think the

911
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,480
endangerment finding is changing
anybody's pulse, but maybe it

912
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,880
just does under score that
market face forces come and go

913
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,880
all the time.
And, you know, there's, there's

914
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,240
a, an action reaction sort of
thing that happens with, with

915
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,200
consumers.
The auto manufacturers

916
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:09,600
definitely are are paying huge
attention to their customers and

917
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,960
they're paying attention to
their their bankers and the

918
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,720
private equities that control
their supply chain.

919
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:20,280
And so it's a complicated
landscape, but no one is

920
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,080
completely closing their eyes to
the carbon world because it

921
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,000
impacts us, even if the
government doesn't have rules

922
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,000
for lots of reasons.
Yeah, no, I I agree.

923
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,200
So where do you think we go next
with this whole, you know,

924
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:41,120
carbon, you know, footprint life
cycle assessment process,

925
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,000
especially given the nature of
your books being around, you

926
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,200
know, car emission factors and
and others.

927
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,280
What?
What do you think we're going to

928
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,120
be, you know, moving forward?
I think this.

929
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,520
Because it seems like the market
is really kind of like, oh,

930
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,640
they're pivoting right now.
I, I think the science is, is

931
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,600
going to get better.
I think the accuracy and

932
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,800
defensibility and reliability of
this work is going to get better

933
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,120
because, you know, it is the
evolving science still.

934
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:16,520
So that is going to change the
role of EP DS and how important

935
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,160
that's going to be is, is yet to
be defined.

936
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,000
And one of the things about EP
DS that people don't really get

937
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,880
is, is that that's only part of
the process.

938
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,680
So you quantify what your
emissions are and you basically

939
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,560
are checking a box saying, Yep,
here's my emissions, I have an

940
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,840
EPD.
That is not a reduction plan.

941
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,000
That is not a guarantee as to
what your performance is going

942
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,000
to be all the time.
It is.

943
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,480
It is a lot of different things,
but you know where that's going

944
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,080
to go exactly.
It's kind of hard to say.

945
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,520
Do you, do you feel like, you
know, down the road here we'll

946
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,000
see like cars, you know, like we
see in our cars now you're

947
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,160
driving and you get like, you
know, metrics like average miles

948
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,520
per gallon, you know, you, you,
you know where you know what

949
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,000
you're getting for your, your
trips and things like that.

950
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,120
Do you think eventually we're
going to start seeing CO2

951
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,960
emission factors pop up on your
screen on your car and then

952
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,800
showing you like on a weekly,
daily, monthly, whatever yearly

953
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,960
assessment of your impact on
emission for by driving your

954
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,320
car?
I don't see any reason why that

955
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,640
couldn't happen because, you
know, in electric vehicles in

956
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,640
particular and in plug in
hybrids, all that data is there.

957
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,640
It's just a matter of actually,
you know, coding the the screens

958
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,600
to actually display that, you
know, it's it's customer demand

959
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,200
driven.
Are the customers going to want

960
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,640
to see that?
Are they, are they interested in

961
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,480
carbon footprints for their meal
when they go to a restaurant or,

962
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,040
you know, supplies they buy in
the hardware store That's,

963
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,400
that's not going to happen
tomorrow, the next day, you

964
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,160
know, you're seeing it in Europe
in increasing levels and to a

965
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,880
certain extent in Asia as well.
So.

966
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:00,800
Calories on the back of your
your packaging.

967
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,640
It tells you exactly.
Exactly.

968
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,280
And there was a move afoot in
the UK to extend that packaging

969
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,480
to include carbon footprint.
And they got about 1/3 of the

970
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,160
way down that highway and they
just, they basically ran out of

971
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,640
money and they stopped.
So it, it is very costly to do

972
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,280
that thing for, for some
products, you know, for sure.

973
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:26,320
But for EVs and, and even
conventional gas combustion

974
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,240
engines that have digital
displays, you know, pretty easy

975
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,320
to, to make that sort of
information available.

976
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,560
So, so yeah, I think, I think
it's coming and, and I think it,

977
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,480
it has a, a good place.
If you have an EV, it coaches

978
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,520
you on, on, you know what's
equivalent to miles per gallon,

979
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,080
you get kilowatt hours per mile.
You, you get that readout.

980
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,280
I get that readout all the time
as I'm real time as I'm driving.

981
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:52,960
So it's not, it's not couched in
carbon, but in my brain I know

982
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,440
it, you know, if my efficiency
is poor, then my carbon is

983
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,680
higher.
You know, it's a pretty direct

984
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,280
relationship there.
Well, you know, and then when I

985
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,200
look at it and I think of it,
there's a lot of companies that

986
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,120
are putting their sustainability
reports together and they, they,

987
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,040
they track, you know, what's my
carbon impact from my, you know,

988
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,960
vehicle fleet that we have in,
in the, in the, in the company.

989
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,920
Well, how cool would it be if
they could just like run the

990
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,880
metrics right off the darn
vehicles because it's already

991
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,760
there.
They don't have to go figure it

992
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,200
out.
They, you know, they actually

993
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,760
get the actual number because
they know how much was burned

994
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,760
and they can pull that telemetry
right out of there.

995
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,080
There there are some truck firms
that are that are working with

996
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:34,840
software that do that sort of
thing.

997
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,480
I believe Walmart has a pilot
program in place where they're

998
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,720
trying to do that with their
company owned trucks at least.

999
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,400
So yeah, that's that's
definitely coming.

1000
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,520
Yeah, no, that's good.
Well, John, what?

1001
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,360
What?
What can How can listeners get

1002
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,680
copies of your books and learn
more about your services?

1003
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,600
Yeah, well, there's there's
several ways.

1004
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:02,600
The easiest is you can look for
LCA 101-1021 O3 in Amazon.

1005
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,720
They're self published there for
a ridiculously low price.

1006
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:09,920
But if you want to get them even
cheaper or like for free, you

1007
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,920
can also go to our website if
you can navigate through and

1008
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,680
find where the forms you fill
out are.

1009
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,880
Our website is beef dot US and
you'll find a place where you

1010
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,920
can see downloads there.
The the the third book is in a

1011
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,880
different place, which I'm
trying to get moved.

1012
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,960
That's if you look under the LCA
section and go all the way down

1013
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,000
to the bottom of the page.
You'll see the links for that.

1014
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,000
And if you follow that link, the
advantage to that is you get a

1015
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,800
zip file download of not just
the the book and PDF form, but

1016
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,320
also the XL.
The XL is there as well.

1017
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,360
OK, great.
That's awesome.

1018
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,480
That's really good.
Well, John, thanks for coming on

1019
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,560
the show today.
We really appreciate you coming

1020
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:54,520
and talking to us about the life
cycle analysis and what the

1021
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,440
great work you've been doing
around developing this Excel

1022
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,480
calculation spreadsheet that can
be used.

1023
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,480
To to help people understand
what their carbon impact is and

1024
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,840
I really appreciate that.
Thanks for listening and

1025
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,160
watching the show.
If you enjoyed the show then

1026
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,880
please share it with your
friends and Co workers on social

1027
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,000
media and tell somebody in
person.

1028
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,360
Thanks for being with us, ET
Nation.