Leaving Agency Life: Zack Cress on When to Stay, Switch, or Start Your Own Recruiting Firm (and How to Actually Do It)

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Coming up on this episode of the.

Zack Cress [00:00:02]:
Elite Recruiter Podcast, when I branched off and started my own. And if anyone's looking to do the same, you just got to start with a good client. You just have to do a lot of sales calls. You really have to know your industry. So I was studying up on architecture and civil engineering. Just things I knew nothing about. If you're sitting there wondering, like, is now the time? It probably is, you know, and just plan accordingly. Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:35]:
We cover it all from sales, marketing.

Zack Cress [00:00:38]:
Mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:44]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:01:33]:
No admin, no silos, no lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires, and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue. Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com I'm so excited about this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast because here's one of those things in your recruiting career, you. You constantly have to make decisions about what you want to do and how you want to move forward. Here's the thing. You've been sitting in the chair as a recruiter doing this for 10 to 15 years.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:06]:
And for many of us, we are sitting in the same chair that we started our recruiting career at. And it's one of those things, like you have to make a decision. Do you go all in with where you're at and the career that you have there, or is it time to check something else out? Is it time to, like, check and see if that grass is greener? On the other side of the fence, what other opportunities are out there? I know it's one of the things that looking back early in my career that, you know, I, it took me unfortunately two years to hit that point, but man, I know I was surrounded with people at that company that have spent 15, 16, 17 years and they were absolutely happy with where it was. But when you're working at an agency, you need to figure out what's best for you. So we're going to talk about all these different options and really just like work through, just answer some of the questions that I wish I had when I worked at this giant agency. That's what I'm so excited to have my guest on today, Zach Krass, to kind of share the routes that you could possibly take and the routes that he took. So welcome to the podcast.

Zack Cress [00:03:09]:
Thank you. Thanks Ben. Appreciate it, Appreciate it. Yeah, I'll give you a quick 30 second overview and then I'm sure we'll dive into it. But spent 14 years at large corporate agencies, started I'll just Aerotech, I'll give a, a quick plug there. Spent time in leadership and then after 14 years decided to branch off and, and start my own doing similar to what a lot of people that you have on. We're launching our own independent and it's going really well. So yeah, just excited to talk through that.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:36]:
And you've also helped 12 companies also get started too.

Zack Cress [00:03:40]:
Yeah. So I guess I can get into the quick backstory there. So again, spent 14 years at a large organization, so was in multiple markets and built my network pretty pretty strong and after that amount of time just realize, you know, moving for the company, doing so much, giving so much back, it just started to where I was done chasing the carrot of corporate environment and I decided that, you know, it was time to branch out, branch out and start my own. So obviously that picked up some, some steam and then people in my network after I left had been reaching out, asking me how do I do it, where do I start? What is a website domain host? Like how do I even go about doing this? I've always had a passion for helping people. That's why I got in the roles that I did. So it was fun as I was launching this thing solo, it was fun fielding calls and helping people out and took it from there. So recognized an opportunity that these people that are trying to launch, they need help doing so. So then one of my mentors as I was getting my recruiting firm launched is now my co founder of Catalyst, but I was Calling him, asking him these same questions.

Zack Cress [00:04:51]:
So it just kind of made some sense, like, hey, let's formalize this and help out as many people as we can launch. So, yeah, there's about 12 people informally that, that I helped throughout that time get off the ground in different ways. How do I design a website? Can you look at my contracts? Who do I go for legal advice and then decide to formalize it? So that's kind of the backstory of Catalyst and how this got started. That is awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:14]:
So let's take a few steps back. How did you end up in the wonderful wild, wild west, the land of misfit toys? The recruiting chair.

Zack Cress [00:05:25]:
So I graduated college in 2009, and I was studying economics and finance. And for those of you who have been in the market that long, that's not really a good degree to have. In 2009, there were more banks shutting down than there were hiring. So I had a buddy that had interned at this large corporation and said, hey, you can make some decent money. I did want to do sales. I had always been passionate about sales, so I did want to do that. And I'm like, yeah, I'll check him out. And what stood out to me was people and the environments and the competitive nature of it, and I just loved it.

Zack Cress [00:06:00]:
I, I, I don't know that after I went there, I don't think I interviewed anywhere else. I just loved the sales type environments of recruiting, the commission nature of recruiting, and just fell in love with it, never looked back. So here I am, 16 years later, still, still passionate about the industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:15]:
Okay, so you made some pretty good jumps in your recruiting career at that place. Like, let's talk about that.

Zack Cress [00:06:23]:
Yeah, I started as a recruiter about after a year, they asked me to go open a growing market in Ohio, so I started a new vertical.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:32]:
So pause right there. So you started at one place and a year later they asked you to move to another location, correct?

Zack Cress [00:06:40]:
Yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:41]:
Did they pay for the reload or did you just have to pack up some boxes?

Zack Cress [00:06:46]:
Both. I mean, at the time, I think I was 23, so my reload was pretty, was a van, you know, I think the hardest, the biggest thing I had was a couch that I probably trashed, you know, a month later. But, yeah, it wasn't much of a reload. But it was, it was one of those things where I just wanted to advance as quickly as I could and I really wanted to give back to the company. So I moved and uprooted my life at that point and moved and started a New vertical in a. In a growing market in Ohio. So, yeah, that's. That's how that got started.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:13]:
Okay, like, let's talk about that. Like, you had to launch a brand new vertical. What did you do in this brand new city, brand new town, brand new industry to get off the ground so that way they could keep you.

Zack Cress [00:07:24]:
Yeah, that's. That's a good point. It probably was shaky a little bit there. I'll say this. And it also holds true now when I branch off and start on my own. And if anyone's looking to do the same, you just gotta start with a good client. You just have to do a lot of sales calls. You really have to know your industry.

Zack Cress [00:07:41]:
So I was studying up on architecture and civil engineering, just things I knew nothing about. But you just really got to learn your industry and then you really got to be dedicated to a process that allows you to make enough phone calls and do enough BD to develop relationships and get a client. Once you get a good client, then you need to build the database and then you start making matches. But it takes. It takes time. Obviously, it takes. It takes time. But I would say, you know, when I moved there, it was very similar situation from when I or somebody else were to launch.

Zack Cress [00:08:11]:
It's like, you gotta get a good client, you gotta drive some revenue, and then from there just work really hard to make a placement and figure it out.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:17]:
And then, you know, you were there for a bit and you got another promotion.

Zack Cress [00:08:22]:
Yeah, so I was there for six years maybe and was again, I really wanted to give back. So I was promoting my team members that I was working with, splitting my territory up, just making sure that I was giving back to everybody else. And yeah, I got offered an opportunity. They asked me to move to Maryland and run an operation there. So it was a good promotional opportunity for me. Moved again further out east, which I had never really been. So both moves, I'd never been hardly been to those cities. And it's like, all right, I guess we're going to.

Zack Cress [00:08:53]:
But yeah, I took another promotion to go out and run a market out east, so it was a good opportunity as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:58]:
Okay, so. And then you got another promotion and made another move. Like, did you ever just want to stay in one spot?

Zack Cress [00:09:04]:
I'm from the Midwest, so the goal is always to kind of loop back, which I. Which I did. So it was a promotion, if you will, moving back, but it was also, it was also getting one back. You know, we started having kids and we wanted to be by family and support structure. So getting back to the Midwest was always a thing. So that was a mutual, good transaction for me and the company. But, yeah, third move all the way back, full circle back to. Back to the Midwest.

Zack Cress [00:09:29]:
I did, at certain times, want to just stay there, but it just never ended up happening. You know, it was always like, it was a good opportunity and we're in the right family situation to do it. So my wife's obviously, you know, a huge part of that, those conversations, and she thankfully was. Was on board for the entire thing.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:45]:
I will say Illinois is probably a little cheaper than the D.C. metro.

Zack Cress [00:09:50]:
You trade. You trade home values for taxes, if that makes sense. So, okay, being kind of a wash where your taxes go up and whatever.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:00]:
So you climb the corporate ladder at a recruiting agency for somebody that wants to do that and that's their goal, what is some of the best advice that you could give them to do that?

Zack Cress [00:10:13]:
You know, I think it's just giving back to it. And again, I think this goes for entrepreneurs as well. It's just treating your people like gold, because they are. I mean, that. That's really what gets an agency up and running and gets a team successful is just leaving it all out on the field for your team, making sure they're developed and making sure that they know what they're doing and they're set up to win each day and they're consistent. And you. You hit them when they need to be hit, and you love them when they need to be loved. You just got to go all in on the relationship aspect of your.

Zack Cress [00:10:45]:
Of your team, because if they're not successful, you'll never be successful. And if you're. You're running an office or you're running an operation that just gets more complicated and bigger. But it's the same thought process, so it really is not necessary. You have to report up always to leadership above you, but it really is above people that are on your team.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:03]:
So what started spurring the idea for you to start looking outside of this large agency that does a really good job keeping you in a bubble?

Zack Cress [00:11:15]:
Yeah, I would say there's. There's two things. The first is lack of autonomy, and I'll get into that. And the second is just. I started to realize that for the first time, there's a couple incidents that happen. And for the first time, I started to think, like, maybe 10 years, I won't be here.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:33]:
So you thought you were going to, like, be a lifer at this organization all the way up until retirement?

Zack Cress [00:11:38]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, that was the Goal, it was advance quickly, develop those around me, do as well as I could, and then retire at some point. Both my parents, who I respect greatly, were. My mom was a teacher and my dad worked for the government. But they were both in their jobs for their entire career. They never made a switch. And I know that's rare, but I really looked up to that. So I'm like, I'm in a great place and, you know, why mess with it? They treat me pretty well and why would I mess with that? So, yeah, the goal was to retire until.

Zack Cress [00:12:11]:
Until it wasn't. You asked the why. So the lack of autonomy. So there's always going to be metrics. I believe in metrics. Anybody who's successful, they need to make phone calls. It's just a part of the game. But there was one situation where you just start pushing metrics to push them a lot of times in big companies, and it doesn't really align with the market or it takes you away from being as successful as you could be.

Zack Cress [00:12:37]:
So in this scenario, we had just come off two years of double digit growth as an operation. We were driving our own metrics. But the corporate metrics, they shift every year. If you're working at a big company, you know this, it's just different things all the time. And I always said, you got to put your flag and the wind's blowing around, but you got to like, like stand your ground the best you can and also hit goal. But we had service metric that we were one of the top in the industry. And I get a call from my leader and they were like, hey, are you pushing concierge service? And it was concierge. It was concierge service.

Zack Cress [00:13:13]:
And our metrics were great in this bucket. We had a way to measure it. And I was like, yeah, we're talking about this all the time. And he's like, well, I just talked to so and so, and we're not using the word concierge. And I was like, what do you mean the word concierge? It's like, that's the word that needs to be used is concert. So then I remember we had a leadership meeting and we're sitting there like, trying to figure out how to bake in this word. So it trickles down without, you know, and it had to go to the candidates too, because the candidates had to then answer questions on like, is this that kind of service? So at that point, I'm like, I think we've kind of lost the plot here on what direction we need to be going. In and that's nothing against, you know, nothing personal or nothing against that.

Zack Cress [00:13:54]:
But when you're at a big corporation, just sometimes you're getting pushed in directions that aren't necessarily aligned with what is going to reflect in the market. Right. So I just started thinking like, man, if I can't even use the right words, there really is, although I'm running this, this big team, there really is like some limits to the autonomy that I could have. So it just sort of made me think like, could I be doing that same conversation ten years from now? Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:23]:
This is probably too much information. But like, were they tracking your calls to figure out how many times you said the word concierge?

Zack Cress [00:14:30]:
No, no, but it was more just like a report back system where it was just verifying that singular word was being used in the office. So it's kind of like, yeah, it's just kind of like, what are we doing? Again, nothing personal, but it's like, what are we doing here?

Benjamin Mena [00:14:43]:
Okay, what finally pushed your decision to hey, what else is out there?

Zack Cress [00:14:50]:
I could talk for a long time about the little incidents like that one incident is not a big deal in itself, but there's 300 and over the course of it was probably a four year realization, honestly of me just kind of one brick in the wall after the other being like, man, I just don't know. I just don't have any direction. So I need to figure out what the next step is. And this is where hopefully maybe this hits with some people out there is, you know, you've been doing the role. I was doing the role for seven years at that point and I didn't feel like I was learning a lot and I didn't feel like I had autonomy. And it's like, maybe there is something better out there. Maybe this isn't it. Maybe I won't retire from here.

Zack Cress [00:15:33]:
And I always said the minute that I stopped giving 100% to my team, then it's probably time to get someone else in because like they need that. They have to have that as a leader. You can't be checked out. I didn't know that I was going to launch my own, but I just wanted to do two things. I wanted to get out with zero impact to my team. That was my first order of business. And then figure out what was next. So I think that was the time as I started to realize that it wasn't going to be a long term deal.

Zack Cress [00:16:04]:
I had the conversation of, hey, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna hang it up. And then as I'm going through that transition, I'm getting a resume together. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to focus here first. But what is the next step? And this turns into maybe a technology conversation too. But when you're at these large agencies, you don't realize what's going on in the outside world from a technology standpoint or from a industry standpoint, really. You see some letters and some statistics, but the amount of technology, as I started researching it, you don't need that.

Zack Cress [00:16:39]:
Fifteen years ago, the big agencies were differentiated by their systems. They had legacy systems where there are millions of resumes, and that's how they got candidates. And nowadays you can get access to pretty much anything, and you don't need the big corporate environments to see success as a small agency. So the more I started realizing that, I'm like, I might just give this a go. I might just do this. And that's how the whole thing got started. That was the exit plan and the startup plan, I suppose.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:09]:
So we'll talk about that startup phase in a second. But I want to go back to the recruiter. That's like the 10 to 15 years in their career. They might have the itch to kind of explore things, but like, let's talk about why and the benefits of actually staying where you're at. They might not have, like, some of the things that you had get happened about, hey, you need to change the verbiage and a conversation. Things could be going great. Like, what are some really good reasons why somebody should stay where they're at?

Zack Cress [00:17:38]:
You know, it's a very. It's a very comfortable lifestyle. If you've been at a big agency for 15 years, you're probably doing really well and you're probably having a pretty good lifestyle. Maybe there's a cap on the income, like there just is, unless you have a massive account or a massive engagement. But it's a very comfortable lifestyle. You know the game, you know what you need to put in, you know what outputs you're going to get. Leadership changes a lot, but you kind of get the game a little bit. And there's a lot of benefits to being there.

Zack Cress [00:18:08]:
There's a salary, there's a commission, there's a client base that you already have. There's yearly trips. Obviously, if you're hitting president's club every year, it's pretty much something you can bank on. And that was phenomenal with my wife and I, you can always bank on a beach trip or wherever you go as a company. So there's a lot of benefits of staying. And if you're the type of person that doesn't want to upset the professional or the family apple car like that, it's an, it's an awesome lifestyle. So I, I would recommend if, if you don't have a high risk tolerance that you, you just kind of grit through and, and you say, you know, the, the startup thing and the small business thing is not for everybody.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:43]:
And you know, and let me just preface this, like, starting a business is not for everybody. Like.

Zack Cress [00:18:50]:
Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:51]:
You know, there's a lot that goes on and I, I am friends with a lot of top billers that actually have had their businesses, sold their business so that way they can go work at agency. Before we start like exploring some of the things that you did to get launched, I want to spend a minute or two talking about like why it might be good to go work at a smaller agency. Can you like talk about that?

Zack Cress [00:19:08]:
Yeah. The amount I was shocked by, I fancy myself someone who just dives in and figures things out. I was pretty surprised by, because again, I left cold. No, no plan. A lot of people will spend months researching what an LLC is and how to file in taxes and how to designate yourself. And because I went at it a little cold, I was doing all that research after, you know, post leaving, let's say. And it takes a lot. It's a lot of learning, it's a lot of functions that you don't even think about.

Zack Cress [00:19:41]:
Everything from logo design to bookkeeping to finding a good legal team to designing a website. And you got to maintain all those things. And then also you gotta. The tech stack is, you know, on, on one hand, the tech stack is such a positive on what's happened over the past 10 years. But also it's a little, I'm sure you can attest to this, it's a little overwhelming the amount of things that are out there. So I'm sitting there demoing for weeks just demoing all the things because I wanted to get the right tech stack. It's just, it's just a lot. You can spend a lot of time doing a lot of setup, which pushes off doing the actual job, like doing what you're good at, which is recruiting and sales.

Zack Cress [00:20:19]:
So I think to me that that was the biggest curve was when starting was just like the amount of time and effort and vetting and getting the whole back office team together. That to me was the hardest part.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:31]:
So like, for those people, it might be better just to jump into another agency with a different structure or a small team.

Zack Cress [00:20:37]:
Yep. Yeah. And I'll say that the smaller. So if you're at a big agency, there's a certain upside. The smaller you go. There's always life cycles of an organization where the smaller the organization is when you join, the bigger your upside is going to be. But it also comes with a little more risk and a little more hat wearing. So if you are, you know, person number two or three on a startup, you're going to be wearing a lot of different hats.

Zack Cress [00:21:01]:
You'll learn a lot. But, but to join a small agency, a lot of that stuff's already set up for you. You know, they can still pay. A lot of the small midsize agencies are still cutting in higher commissions, let's say, because they're more flat. There could be a very good benefit in not just starting your own, but joining a midsize because the upside is still there for you.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:19]:
Awesome. Now I want to go back to jumping into you starting your own company. And you know, I know this organization that you'll have and I know many recruiters that have left. It's almost as if they've created billions and billions of dollars in competitors.

Zack Cress [00:21:35]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:37]:
Like it's wild.

Zack Cress [00:21:40]:
I think that's, that's probably factual. I mean it is factual. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:44]:
Like I see the numbers and I see the stuff. So you know, you launching your own company, what were some of the things that you like, I know you talked about some of the, like the focuses wasn't moving the needle, wasn't you starting your recruiting. But once you got past that, what did you have to start doing to launch your company to actually get off the ground and get business going and put food on the table?

Zack Cress [00:22:05]:
Yeah, I mean it goes back to what I said before. It really just starts with business development and getting clients that really, once I got the tech stack down, which took probably longer than it should, then it's like, okay, let's get all these clients prospected and in the system and get them in a CRM and just start engaging. So that's really step number one that should be the focus from the day you start is just do you have a good prospect list of clients that are going to buy from you, whatever niche you're in and then are you engaging them in a high volume manner? So that's what you got to do.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:36]:
To start, you came in blank. How did you start actually start that? This targeted list of like I'M going to get these people.

Zack Cress [00:22:43]:
Luckily I'd done it multiple times before, so really it's just define a niche which are mine was, was AEC architecture, engineering, construction and I focused on civil engineering. The civil side of that. If you know the industry and just went through and generated a list of clients that would buy that service and then just started engaging director level, VP level personnel there and the service started as a high level more executive search, let's call it 1:50 give or take placements and we're working down into that plus also more junior engineers. But yeah, if you engage them in the right way and you have a good niche and you know what you're talking about, it's shouldn't take too long, you know, as long as you're having good conversations.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:25]:
Okay. And like, you know, looking back now, you've had your business for a bit, you've launched, you've helped some friends get or some people that you know also get launched. What were some of the things that you wish you really knew before you like jumped out the door and started building the plane on the way down?

Zack Cress [00:23:42]:
I think I wish I would have known. I wish I would have had a team set up off the get. That's really it because it was. I, I'll tell one example. I, you know, when I started I really wanted this to be a local business, so small business I wanted to give back to my community. I went to a law firm here locally and we're just building a contract, we're just building a direct hire contract. And I'm going back and forth with him and I'm suggesting a bunch of things that need to be in this, this agreement. And he's like, oh yeah, that's good.

Zack Cress [00:24:13]:
And he's, he's putting it in there and I'm like, wait a minute, who, like, who's paying who here? Right? So it's like you have to really get people that know what they're doing and that's where the vetting, that's where the time comes in is, is just like, it's just that. So what I wish I would have known is just the amount of vetting it would take to get all the little functions ironed out.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:36]:
Okay. And then out of curiosity, like, what are some of the tech tools that you like you ended up going with. And I know tech tools changed because technology and AI is insane. But like, you know, what are some of the things that you're like, hey, this is what I liked.

Zack Cress [00:24:51]:
Well, zoom info, although expensive and I know there's a lot of other competitors out there. But that really was the game changer for. For me because that essentially gives access to, you know, anybody in my demograph, anybody in our target market that we were calling both on the sales side and on the recruiting side. So that essentially replaced a big agency database because we had the contact info and the cell phone info of anybody out there. So it allowed us or me starting to get access to the right candidates right away. So it didn't feel like we were building it from the ground up. We already had our list.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:28]:
I remember that, like, back in the day, like, that was part of the pitch. Like, we have this gigantic database and now, like I hate to say this, we all have the database.

Zack Cress [00:25:35]:
Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:37]:
It's all. Now how we actually use it.

Zack Cress [00:25:41]:
Well, that's going to be, you know, a sales and recruiting person since the dawn of time, hasn't used the systems properly. So that's been my forever. But you know how that goes.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:49]:
Well, now, actually, if you think about this legacy database of these large companies, like, how up to date is it?

Zack Cress [00:25:56]:
Yeah, you know, it ends up being a hindrance almost because there's so much in there that it's a lot of legacy data that you end up spending time on that isn't. Isn't accurate or active. So, you know, in a way, the companies like Zoom Info that have their database that gets refreshed all the time, it's almost a little better. I don't know.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:14]:
So I know we were talking offline in our pregame, and we were talking about some of the things that recruiters don't think about when they're launching their company. And one of the things that I think is important is compliance and bookkeeping. Let's start with the compliance part first. Like, for those that are listening that are just thinking about jumping in and hustling, all I need to do is like, send out a contract, they sign it, I recruit, I fill the job, I get a check, I send it in my bank account. End of the day, we're making money, baby.

Zack Cress [00:26:43]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:44]:
What the hell is compliance for those people?

Zack Cress [00:26:46]:
Yep. Yeah, I think that's a big unknown to. Or a big thing that I didn't think about was just the compliance and the taxes and just making sure that you're filing everything properly and managing your books properly. And the thing with bookkeeping is you ask 10 different CPAs about, hey, what should I write off, what should I not write off? And you'll probably get five different answers on if you should or shouldn't do this. So it's one of those things where with bookkeeping, not okay. If you don't do it, obviously you're going to get fined and maybe the government, that's extreme scenario. But on just a normal monthly maintenance, it really is tax advantage. It's like, is our dollars going to the right place? Do we have enough money to invest in this software? Should we write this off or should we not? I have a partner.

Zack Cress [00:27:31]:
How are we doing distribution? So, like, that's the part of the bookkeeping and maintenance that I think is not thought about. Especially if you go into a partnership and it's not just you, it becomes very complicated quicker. So having somebody in your back pocket that you can talk to is key and crucial when it comes to that stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:49]:
Ooh, I want to talk about this partnership thing. Okay. So when it comes to a partnership, you just think like, hey, this is my buddy. Like, we've been doing this together. We're best friends. He's a great recruiter. Is there anything else prior to this, what we're going to talk about with the legal stuff that you need to think about with a partner?

Zack Cress [00:28:08]:
Yeah, I think. Well, obviously, you got to make sure you structure it properly. And there's a lot of things that you need to think about. Just getting it up. It's almost like going into a marriage. It really is. It's like you hope everything goes well. And I've heard my co founder at Catalyst says this a lot, but it becomes issues when it's going really well or when it's going really not well down the line.

Zack Cress [00:28:29]:
So you got to make sure you structure it properly to handle both of those scenarios down the line. If it's going okay, you're just getting started, it's like, whatever. But you know, what if it blows up, then that 1% difference that you put in at the beginning becomes an issue. Or maybe one person drops off and doesn't want to do it anymore. Like, what's the exit plan for that? So there's a lot of things that you need to be thinking about if you're looking to partner up with somebody. The pros, I will say, is for those of you who have launched and done independent, it's very lonely. It is nice having somebody to, you know, ping things off of, especially if they have complimentary skills. Somebody's good at sales, somebody's good at recruiting, somebody's good at finance, somebody's good at sales.

Zack Cress [00:29:11]:
I would not shy away from partnerships. Just make sure you set it up properly.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:14]:
Okay. So In a partnership, you need to have an agreement then, right?

Zack Cress [00:29:19]:
Oh, oh, yeah, for sure.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:22]:
And then this agreement should, like, you know, you don't want to look at the negatives, but should you also have an exit plan set up in that agreement?

Zack Cress [00:29:29]:
100%. You should have plans set up for any scenario that you can think about. You should have an eight hour session with that person and just say, like, okay, what about this? Do we have language for that? What about this? And just try to take the emotion out of it. You know, if you're going into a partnership or two or three people or whatever, just make sure they're aligned. So I would say just treat it, Treat it like a marriage. And if it goes really well, how's that going to look? If it doesn't go very well, how's that going to look? I would just play that out. Okay.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:58]:
And then the financial aspect and the bookkeeping of that. Yeah, you're like, I'm going to let you talk because you're just like, shaking your head and just like, ooh, my.

Zack Cress [00:30:09]:
Co founder is more the bookkeeping expert. And so I won't, I won't try to say that I'm the total expert here. But yeah, the more people that get, you know, in that partnership, the more you need to plan out distributions. It's not like your personal income anymore. So if you're running your own, it's kind of your own personal income. It's, yeah, I'll take this, but I want to invest that back. This is a discussion that happens with all and all needs to be agreed upon, and you need to distribute that out in proportion with their ownership level so everything becomes a little more complicated when you have more people.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:42]:
And jumping back to the compliance thing, it's the thing that I think recruiters don't think about, like, hey, I got a check. Like, they sign the client, whatever. Do you have to think about things on a state by state basis?

Zack Cress [00:30:51]:
Mm, yeah, every state's different. Every state has different taxes, Every state has different filing requirements for your business. And again, worst case scenario, you get some fines or whatever, but you don't want to be dealing with that. So it's good to have a team that is handling all that for you in the background. That way you don't have to worry about it. So our goal when launching Catalyst was just getting all that off everybody's plate. And it's just like, can I just focus on sales and recruiting and then not worry about the rest of the back office stuff?

Benjamin Mena [00:31:20]:
You guys actually handle the Bookkeeping done, Correct?

Zack Cress [00:31:23]:
Yeah. Cool.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:23]:
Okay. Perfect. Yeah, it's one of those things. Like, I've been in the Facebook groups and I've talked to people like, hey, yeah, like, hey, somebody said that I need to pay estate tax, but I am based here, but the placement's there. But this is my home turf. Like, I shouldn't have to pay that.

Zack Cress [00:31:39]:
Yeah, every. Every state's different how they operate, but it's a lot to handle, especially if you, you know, especially if you don't have a financial mind, but you're really good at recruiting or you're really good at sales. It's just something I've been working around, you know, hundreds of people in the recruiting industry, and we're not a high compliance bunch. We're just not, like, we're just. We're salespeople and we're recruiters and we like to help people and we like to influence conversations. But when it comes to things like compliance, that is not our bag. Typically.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:07]:
I know when we spoke in our pregame chat, you have these conversations with founders and, like, some of the things that you've even brought up, like, hey, why are you doing that? 30. Like, there are other things to think about, like, what are some good highlights or good things that you've helped share that people have really helped somebody move the needle starting their business?

Zack Cress [00:32:27]:
Yeah, I think with things like Net Terms, it just highlights how many little levers you can pull to make your business successful. And if you've only worked at one company, you only have one perspective of how the job should be done. I brought the netterms up as a. As an example, because let's say you're at a company who mostly does net 30, or you're in a chair and the salesperson, or however it's usually net 30. Well, did you know you could do net 7? I've talked to people that didn't even think about that. So instead of making a placement with your new business and waiting a month to get paid or more than a month, you're getting paid after a week. And some people just don't. It's like, oh, my gosh, I didn't even think about tightening the net payment terms.

Zack Cress [00:33:10]:
So that's just one example of many where just having an outside coach when you're starting, having outside perspective on different ways to do the business. And when you're talking through, it's like, hey, what about this? What about that? It goes a really long way. So I couldn't give you all 1000 instances, but just Being able to talk through things with somebody, it's just little thing after a little thing where it's like, oh, I guess I should do this. And then you're that much more successful after the fact that, yeah, that is.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:36]:
One of the fun things about stardom. You're either like in a Facebook group, like asking things or calling up a buddy or phoning a friend or ah, do I actually have to hire that lawyer and talk to him? He's like 250 bucks an hour.

Zack Cress [00:33:49]:
What's great about the founder community, and I'm sure you've experienced this a lot, is everybody's trying to help each other. And that's not a perspective you get at big agency. They don't really talk about the founder community, but like, everybody truly is. I can call other people that are members of those 12 or the people that we've helped launch, and everybody's trying to help everybody. So it's like I get a call from somebody who says, hey, I just got 20 positions at this account. I don't have anybody to recruit it. It's like, oh, you should call this person because they recruit. Exactly that.

Zack Cress [00:34:20]:
And then you put two founders together and they're working deals out. So just the founder community itself has been amazing in that regard. And again, I know you experienced that a lot, but. But it's just funny how you don't think about that.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:31]:
I mean, I know when I was working at a big agency, I felt like I was in a bubble. Like I did not know what happened in the recruiting world outside of there. Yeah, I think I joked with you about this. You know, there's a lot of people that find my podcast at a big agency when they're about six months away from leaving. I mean, like, they did a good job, like with the training and that's, you know, if you want to get both. Like, I remember the sales conferences that this large agency had, and that's one of the reasons why I structured the summits the way I have, where we're all by ourselves. We don't have a company there to pump us up. So let's bring together some people and we almost.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:09]:
To pump ourselves up.

Zack Cress [00:35:10]:
Yeah, and those things are crucial. Those things build, buy in. They get you fired up. We always call it drinking the Kool Aid or filling up with gas. And you know, you do need that. You do need that. Whether your agency or owner or anything in between, you do need an external. Even if you're intrinsically motivated, you do need an external, you know, kick every once In a while just to get you a gas back up.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:30]:
So we've covered a lot. Before we jump over to the quick fire questions, is there anything else that you want to share about, like jumping out and flying on your own and building the boat on the way down or building the plane on the way down?

Zack Cress [00:35:41]:
You know, I would just say I've had a lot of fun. I've had a lot of fun doing it. And if you're one of those people who maybe you're feeling stagnant again, you do have to have a risk tolerance. You do have to have some savings built up just in case, like plan accordingly, do everything above board. But it has been so much fun. I've learned more over the past two years than I did probably in the previous five and it's been great. So if you're sitting there wondering, like, is now the time? It probably is, you know, and just plan accordingly.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:13]:
Okay. Before the quick fire questions, you mentioned the word savings. What are your thoughts on runaway?

Zack Cress [00:36:21]:
It really depends. Mine was longer doing this because of how cold I went into this entire process. So took me about four months to start generating income. You could definitely speed that up. But I would say the plan for you should be to get a revenue driving client as quickly as possible. If you do that, I would say still plan for three to six months. I would just. But, but the reality is like if you do it accordingly and you get off the ground, the people that should leave and launch know what they're doing.

Zack Cress [00:36:53]:
It's not so risky that it's like you're doing it here. You're already doing it, you're already doing the job. It's not like you're going to engineer a med device product. So you should be able, if you can just replicate that to get off the ground running. You just gotta have a client. So if you can do that, I would say within a month or two. But I plan for three to six.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:09]:
Okay, three to six. Awesome. Quick fire questions. You've worked with a lot of recruiters, like you've hired and trained a lot of recruiters and you've got a chance to see like, you know, what has worked, what hasn't worked, what dumb things recruiters have done and the people that have excelled in their career. If you had a brand new recruiter that called you up and want to sit down for a quick 15 minute chat and they ask you the question, what's the number one piece of advice that you can tell me to have a successful career in this space, in this Industry, what would you say?

Zack Cress [00:37:36]:
I had a coach back in the day that said, get 3% better every day. I would just employ that mindset and it's twofold. One, it creates a mindset of self development. You have to be able to self develop yourself. And how this looks in practice, and I actually told my team this as they would come in, is just work on one thing per week. Work on one small thing per week that you can then compound upon. I remember working on my voicemails. How do they sound? Try different things.

Zack Cress [00:38:08]:
Intentional practice is probably what you could call this, but what's your callback ratio? Is it zero? Try to switch it up a little bit and then the next week go to something else. Maybe it's call sheet organization, I don't know. But just do one thing per week, do it all week long, and then compound on that. Take a 3% better approach, and by the end of a year, by the end of two years, you're doing some expert level stuff, whether you know it or not. So I would just employ that approach to your career. And your career's in your hands. So if you can focus on yourself and get better, then you'll be fine.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:41]:
Okay, same question. But for somebody that's been around the block, the 10 to 20 year recruiter, they hit you up and they're just like, hey, been doing this for a while. What advice would you give an old dog?

Zack Cress [00:38:52]:
I think for someone who's been around for a while, I think I'd say try something new each week. It's almost the same practice, but it's a little different. You know, if 15 years of success, you're doing a lot of really good things, and the game is changing. Every single week, the game is changing. And if you're not picking up on new tools out there, automated messaging, different types of AI, I know that's a big buzzword, but like, you could be getting a little left in the dust in the next five to 10. So I would say if you have a process that's working great, keep employing that. And let's introduce some new tools into your tool belt as you go. Just so you're staying current on the industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:33]:
And the tools are changing so fast. Right before our call, I just sat down with Rich Rosen, which is one of my good friends in Pinnacle society, and he literally just like, hey, check out this tool, check out this tool, check out this tool. We did a 30 minute call looking, I think at 17 different recruiting tools that just came out.

Zack Cress [00:39:49]:
Yeah, it's hard to keep. Yeah, I just got a text yesterday about this new thing and I'm going to get to it, but it's like, it's hard to keep it all straight.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:56]:
Okay, so for you or since we're talking about tools, is there a tool that's been an absolute game changer for you? It doesn't have to be recruiting related, but just overall, you know, I'm pretty.

Zack Cress [00:40:07]:
I take a pretty old school approach when it comes to this like prospecting, get it all on a system and really it is heavy phone work, so. But I do think Dripify is a really cool tool. I don't go completely nuts on the campaigns, but I write them just like I would write a normal thing. And that has saved me so much time when making LinkedIn connections and follow up messages. And again, to me that being able to automate just something like that kind of task is a game changer for somebody starting off. So if you haven't looked into automated messaging, source Whale I know is another one. Take a look at platforms like that.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:42]:
Awesome. What is one of the biggest challenges or failures that you had to work through?

Zack Cress [00:40:49]:
There's no one particular one again, but it's like over a 16 year career in recruiting, you have failures all the time. You have candidates not accept, you have clients that don't work out. And I think it really is just like you have to have a mindset to just keep going and not make excuses. And any, you know, if you get hung up on, is it that person or is it like, can you take any sort of external thing that happens and turn it into implied feedback for you and get a little better? So I think like the whole game is filled with pitfalls. So it's just having the mindset to turn those things into implied feedback and get better.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:26]:
And you know, picture this. You get the opportunity to go back in time, grab a beer with yourself or maybe a cup of coffee. Like a month into your recruiting career, what would you tell yourself?

Zack Cress [00:41:40]:
I would say do the same thing that I did. This is what you do. But then cut it off at like, once you get to the point where you're an expert in your field, that's when you need to make a decision on if you should do what I did or not. If I have anything that I would tell myself is do this, but do it sooner. And then here's why. So to me it's like work really, really hard, get really, really good. Give back to your team, give back to your company as much as you can. Obviously, you know, get compensated to the extent that you can.

Zack Cress [00:42:10]:
That's what I tell myself. It's just like, once you get to the point where you're feeling stuck, it's okay to look external, and it's okay to look at what else is out there in the industry. Because for too long, I was in that bubble.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:20]:
I mean, it's a good bubble, it's a happy bubble.

Zack Cress [00:42:23]:
Great bubble. Yeah. Yep.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:25]:
And, you know, with all the recruiters that you've trained, and I'm guessing because you've, like, helped kick off some offices, you've also had to train salespeople and promote salespeople, you've had a lot of conversations with these people. Good, bad, ugly, probably had to get rid of people. You've helped hire recruiters. You probably also get a lot of questions of, like, you know, how does business development work? What kind of voicemail do I need? How do I do this throughout all this? 15, 16 years. And on top of that, now you're working with founders, getting started for the recruiting companies. Is there a question that you wish people would ask you, but they never really do?

Zack Cress [00:43:00]:
I don't know if I wish they would ask me, but I think the question they don't ask me or ask other founders is like, is it worth it? Is it worth it to leave my comfortable corporate job to jump out of the plane and build it on the way down? Is it worth it? I get calls frequently where it's like, how is it going? And what they're implying is, I think, like, is it worth it? But it's never explicitly asked. It's just like, is it going well enough for me to have the same thought process? And the answer is, obviously, it depends, but probably yes.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:33]:
And when you say it was worth.

Zack Cress [00:43:34]:
It for you, of course, in every aspect of life, it was worth it. Just the family life alone. I know we haven't hit on this, but we had our third child right after we launched this. We found out, my wife and I, that we were pregnant, like, right after the launch. And I had spent 14 years, you know, running an office, being gone a lot. And it's been so nice to get time back with my kids. They're all young, and it's been so nice. And then from a compensation standpoint, it's gone better.

Zack Cress [00:44:03]:
Not that it's all about that, but people wonder about that. It's gone better. So, like, the home life is better, the professional life is better. It's been more fun. I've learned a lot more. So is it worth it for me? Yeah. On every Aspect, it has been. I don't want to speak for everybody, but I'm just very passionate about doing the whole thing, which is also where Catalyst comes into play.

Zack Cress [00:44:20]:
I wouldn't tell people to do this if I didn't think it was worth it. So it definitely is awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:26]:
Because, you know this. One of the things that I've seen out there in the recruiting space is, you know, of course, I live in another bubble now of the Elite Recruiter podcast, where I'm sitting there talking to people that are just winning and crushing it. But then there's a lot of things where you hear about the market and you hear about this, and, you know, what was that phrase that you said that a few minutes ago? Quote, unquote, nobody's hiring. You got to go figure out who is hiring.

Zack Cress [00:44:48]:
Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:50]:
So we've covered a lot, and we've really talked about, is it worth staying where you are? And for a lot of people, absolutely. Is it worth going to a smaller company, you know, for a lot of people, absolutely. Is it worth it to jump out on your own? Absolutely, too. So, two things before I let you go. First of all, if somebody wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Zack Cress [00:45:10]:
LinkedIn. Just send me a message or shoot me a connection on LinkedIn. I'm on there. Zach Kress. That's probably the best way. And then if you want to get in contact, just shoot me a note. I'm on it all the time, as I'm sure most of listeners are, so that's probably the best way to get in contact with me, and then we can strike up conversation from there.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:25]:
Okay. And before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Zack Cress [00:45:30]:
Yeah, I think just from a catalyst standpoint, just if. If this was hitting home with you, if you've been wherever you're at for 5, 10, 15 years and you feel like you're in a good spot that you can branch off again, this is a service that I wish I had when we were launching this firm. So essentially what it is is a complete back office for you. So anything legal, logo, website compliance, bookkeeping, like we talked about, that's all handled for you. So if you're thinking about launching, but you're just a little overwhelmed with the process, we can get you up and running within, you know, quick launch within a. We can get you legal within a week or two, and then fully, fully, you know, website design and all that within a couple months. So if you're like, again, keep it above board. But if you have a friend that is a manager somewhere and is hiring and you're like, maybe I should take a crack at it, maybe it's the time it might be.

Zack Cress [00:46:20]:
So get in contact with us and we'd love to talk.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:23]:
Well, Zach, I'm glad that you made the jump yourself because, you know, actually looking back at my timeline, I think it took me almost the same amount of years to make the jump into my own firm, and it has been absolutely worth it. But like I said, I have good friends. They're just crushing it at a firm and they're happy as a clam and they don't want to deal with the headaches that I have to deal with. So that way they could just focus on recruiting. So here's the thing. The beautiful thing about recruiting is you could find a path that works for you. It's there. There's so much opportunity in our world.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:53]:
So for you guys, I want you to absolutely Crush it. Make 20, 25 a year that you make your dreams happen. Let's go get it, guys.

Zack Cress [00:47:00]:
Thanks, Ben, and thanks for everything you do for the industry.

Benjamin Mena [00:47:03]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:47:21]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:47:53]:
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Zack Cress [00:48:10]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.