Advanced Closing Mastery: Steve Finkel’s Framework to Triple Your Placements

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
Running a recruiting firm is enough work. You shouldn't need five vendors to manage your online presence. With recruiters, websites, you get it all in one place. Websites, SEO, paid ads, automation, and ongoing strategy. All built specifically for recruiters. We understand your industry, your clients and your challenges. Simplify your marketing and strengthen your results. Mention Elite Recruiter and get 10% off any new service at recruiterswebsites.com this is part two of the interview with Stief Finkel.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:27]:
If you have not listened to part two yet, go download and listen to part one before you jump into this episode.

Intro [00:00:35]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:53]:
Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas. The AI. First recruitment platform built for modern agencies. Doesn't only track resumes and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:09]:
And now it's entering a whole new era. With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With MagicSearch, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply looking for keywords. Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships. Powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow need insights. Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:34]:
And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. No admin, no silos, no lost info, nothing but faster shortlists, better hires, and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue. Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@recruitwithatlas.com for a recruiter that's interested in like picking up this book, learning more, closing, learning the art of closing about how long do you think it takes to really start like mastering the information to start seeing that productivity gain and the increase in revenue.

Steve Finkel [00:02:13]:
Are you saying the information in this book or the entire group of the old recruiting field? Well, gee, all right, let me make a comment to the managers here. You know the real answer to most questions in life are. It depends. It's the answer to most questions. All right, but I'll make a comment. So matter how much effort's involved, if a manager goes out and I'll address this to managers as well and says, well, I'll buy a copy of this book and I'll put it on my shelf so that people can have access to it. Never, never, never. It won't work.

Steve Finkel [00:02:48]:
You know what the manager's got to do. And again, I'm speaking of managers, you can extend this to yourself is get a copy of Closing for Recruiters, every single solitary person in his firm, date, sign and inscribe to Bob, a future superstar, to Susan to help you go from good to great. And then conduct a series of sales meetings on a chapter by chapter basis addressing the content of every single chapter where everybody's got to have read the previous chapter and then do the exercises and then do the exercises which are there. Look, instant gratification is a wonderful thing, but to develop skills, honest to goodness, to develop skills takes time, but it doesn't go away. Once you've developed your skills, you're okay. I would honestly think this is, this is an extensive book. I refuse to admit how long it is because I don't want to scare people off. But, but, but it, it is 300 plus page.

Steve Finkel [00:04:03]:
That's. Yeah, you see it right there. Now, I will say one of the lovely things about this that are people comment is that it really is genuinely interesting to read. It's broken up into headings and subheadings. It's not just page after page of writing, it is broken up. It took me a long time to learn to be a pretty decent writer, but I think I've managed to achieve that. It'll take you a year. It'll take you easily a year to get this down.

Steve Finkel [00:04:34]:
And at the end of that time you ought to go back. You'll notice also at the beginning of every single chapter there are various quotes from sales writers. And some of them are which I, I read these books. I had someone contacting me saying, how do you remember all these quotes? Well, I read these books. It's not like I look things up on the Internet. I read books, books about selling. And one of the comments was that what makes you successful is not brilliance, it's learning the skills and practicing the skills on a consistent basis or over a period of time and paying attention to doubling back to make sure you're doing this when you do that. I mean, the skills that you have will never go away and it will enable you to do well in any industry.

Steve Finkel [00:05:34]:
Things go up and things go down. The hot market today becomes less than hot tomorrow. And if all of a sudden you've Got to jump back into a new market. Or you lose a client as an example that you would like to have, but you lose it through no fault of your own. You can only fall back on your own personal abilities. And your own personal abilities are developed, frankly, by exposing yourself to this kind of material. One of the nicely most of what I, Steve Finkel.com all right. Is where you can go to order this book.

Steve Finkel [00:06:14]:
But I did toss it on Amazon. Not particularly, because I have it on Amazon. Some of the comments that I get there, and far, far more. The people that pick up the phone and give me a call are from people that have got 30, 40, 50 years in this business that's not an exaggeration. Or sometimes 20 years of this business or 10 years and they go, you know, I thought I knew everything about this business. I sit in on podcasts, I go to conferences, I talk with people. By golly, I thought I knew everything about this business. And maybe they do about the early portions of the business.

Steve Finkel [00:06:53]:
But the further you go into the actual search process itself, the more difficult and complex it gets and the less it is covered. This material is a body of work that has never, ever been exposed to the industry in large part. And bluntly, to separate yourself from it is separating yourself from dramatically increased production.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:19]:
Well, I gotta ask you this, and first of all, before I ask you that question, I've had a few people ask me one day, is Steve gonna drop his books on Audible, like in our ears when we're working out or running? But the question I have for you is you've been training for a long time. You've written some incredible books. I know so many recruiters that your books have been part of the foundation of how they've gotten good. Why did you come to the point where you realized you need to do one more and focus on the art of closing?

Steve Finkel [00:07:55]:
Well, it makes me seem like a charitable person, which I hope I am. But I see really good recruiters that not only lose fees that they should have, but lose fees that they should have and don't know about it, because they are not moving people from a first interview to a second interview and from a second interview to a close and putting the deal together. Benjamin, I. If you'll go back to the previous one, I've got a background that nobody else has got. I mean, that's the fact of the matter. Go back to the previous one. I had three different Fortune 500 companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars pouring all the absolute best sales training into me that could be had. And then at that point, after literally, golly, 10, 15 years of serious sales training, where these companies were just pouring information and money into improving my sales skills.

Steve Finkel [00:09:04]:
And I was delighted to do this. That's what I wanted. I went to work for the best at the time, the best franchise in the country. And I worked with two people that were excellent, out of all proportion to anybody else in that operation because they had great sales backgrounds combined with that operation. And then I went out and I improve my own skills, developing my operations training, doing all this kind of stuff. There's a lack, there's a gap in the industry. I'm actually quite knowledgeable. Probably not to the degree you are, but I'm actually quite knowledgeable relative to LinkedIn, relative to AI, relative to developing Boolean, search strings and so forth.

Steve Finkel [00:09:45]:
I won't go into detail. There are plenty of people that are better than I am, but I'm pretty darn good. But that's not all there is. That's not all there is. What there is is learning to be the sales aspects of this business and putting things together. The amount of areas where you could improve your skills in this business is astronomical. There's no end to it, but it requires the knowledge and then it requires the work to implement the knowledge and then it requires the doubling back to make sure you're doing this knowledge. Tom Hopkins wrote a book, excellent book, how to Master the Art of Selling.

Steve Finkel [00:10:23]:
As a successful salesman. He went to early stages, a J. Douglas Edwards seminar called Professional Closing Power. And he made the comment Tom Hopkins in his book. I found out that I was. When I walked into that Professional Closing Power seminar, I was spending more time fighting the material than I was trying to learn it. He was a successful salesman. He was resentful at the thought that J.

Steve Finkel [00:10:50]:
Douglas Edwards could teach him material about closing when he was already successful. And that little story is in his book, how to Master the Art of Selling. And then he said, but when I finally threw that away and committed myself to learning the material, my production improved astronomically. And then when I went back to it a year later, I was shocked at how I hadn't understood the material, I hadn't built in the material, I'd forgotten some of them. It was tremendous. And he really expanded his knowledge and got to be one of the best sales trainers in the country, generic sales trainers, as a result of that. There are people that are defending themselves against the possibility that they could do better. They don't admit that.

Steve Finkel [00:11:39]:
None of us says, oh, I'm perfect. I can't stand any improvement. They could do better, and I want them to do better. I'm committed to the industry and I'm committed to the perfection of technique within the industry. Perfection's a stretch, but at least dramatic improvement. But if you want to improve, try improving an area where you're not so good as opposed to an area where you're already pretty good. And this is an area, a critical area, where most people in this business are not terribly good and they can improve adormously.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:14]:
Do you think with all the focus on tech and AI and stuff, do you think the focus on. Because we're in the sales business, whether we like it or not, do you think the focus on the sales skills has decreased over the last few years because of all the other focuses?

Steve Finkel [00:12:35]:
Yeah, I do. I. I think. And it's because it's a matter of how much is there to learn. To some degree, if you're trying to learn in this area, it reduces the time to learn in this area, which is reasonable. If you're spending your time trying to master AI, master LinkedIn recruiter, which is, you know, AI LinkedIn recruiter, which is on the verge of coming out, all this kind of stuff, I'm perfectly fine. But again, that material is available or will be to everybody else. And while it's a good thing to learn, I hope to heck I am not diminishing the impact or diminishing the merits in any way whatsoever.

Steve Finkel [00:13:16]:
I'm more than moderately astute in these areas, though. If Benjamin Menace says he's better, I'll go. You probably are. Heck, yes. It's okay. All right, I'll do okay. But it is the other areas where nobody can compete with you because it is your skills, and to some degree, it's the managers we all get hyped up over. It's getting it to be a cliche somewhat.

Steve Finkel [00:13:40]:
The shiny new object chasing the shiny new object, that's understandable. But you've got to realize that once that shiny new object is under some degree of control, then you better go to something where maybe you're not so good. If you spent an hour of time, as an example, improving your skills where you're already excellent and where you're not excellent, the return on investment where you're not excellent is liable to be an awful lot higher.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:11]:
I know one of the things that we talked about offline before we sat down with this, and it's the mindset of recruiter and how a recruiter, like, needs to become almost like an athlete and train like an athlete. From what you've seen with all the people that like the, the great recruiters and the great managers and the great firms, how much training behind the scenes do they do outside of the actual production and work they put in?

Steve Finkel [00:14:42]:
The answer is not much. You know, to some degree the recruiters, if they're with a multi person firm, think that it is up to the managers to give them the information that they need. And as a result they really don't do much on their own because they think it is the manager's responsibility. It is the manager's responsibility to institute a culture of learning in the organization. And they really don't do that for the most part. The real truth of the matter too is managers, they all know they ought to be conducting sales meetings. But the truth is, though they will not admit it, they run out of material. I mean the manager doesn't know everything.

Steve Finkel [00:15:32]:
They run out of material. And as a result these sales meetings kind of diminish to what's your best search assignment? What's your best candidate? What are you working on today? That's information swapping. That's not skill improvement. The reason I went back to the fact that the manager, to utilize this book properly, ought to be buying one for every person and then conducting a sales meetings on a chapter by chapter by chapter by chapter basis is they will have a continuing move to improve the entire organization. And obviously when you're going to read chapter 12 or whatever it may be, every person has got to have read chapter 12 and underlined and highlighted and marked it up before the program so that pretty well forces each individual person to do this. You may recall from a previous conversation we had, how to master the art of recruiting two part section. I made some reference to a 17th century Japanese poet named Basho that said if you walk through the mist you will get wet. And the significance of this to our industry and what we're addressing here is if you continually expose yourself on a constant basis to a chapter a day.

Steve Finkel [00:16:53]:
As an example, I broken up a chapter a day. Real recruiting is in an audio format as well as in a book format. It is 44 00:10 to 15 minute modules. Could be a module a day, every day. It requires hard study and work and concentration to learn this stuff. But once that's done or you think it's done, then it's a matter of reminder. You need to walk through the mist every single day and you will get wet.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:25]:
So looking back at like the the art of closing, you have it broken up into the debrief, you have it broken up into closing. But I also want to cover like the very end, the After Action Review worship. Like, you know, what's your thoughts on that?

Steve Finkel [00:17:43]:
Well, you may recall that there are two chapters, two or three chapters in this book. After we run through the closes. Here is an example of a close. And we walk all the way through and at the end of it, we do an analysis of it. That's a pretty good sales meeting, what that refers to, and it is covered in this refers only closing. It refers to the after action review. The deal goes down, and I'm saying down. It happens positively, negatively.

Steve Finkel [00:18:14]:
It happens and you should be recording that call. It's a pretty good sales meeting if you think you did well to play it in the course of a sales meeting. And what did we do right? What would we do wrong? How did we analyze it? And the purpose of an after action review really is not to bring up a close that you think didn't gain ground. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. It's not so much to bring that, but it's how could it have been improved? You may recall that at the end of this particular after Action review covered in the book, at the very end of it all, it goes, okay, now what did the world's neatest closer, Steve Finkel, do wrong?

Benjamin Mena [00:18:55]:
And.

Steve Finkel [00:18:58]:
It goes crime and Italy. Here's what I did wrong right here. And a particular point was brought up that in retrospect, even though it was a successful closing call that we had overlooked, and then we made an effort in my own operation to say, okay, how do we correct this? Well, we developed some script to deal with this. We remember to ask this question. We build it into our progress. The purpose of an after action review is to improve yourself. And it is covered here as it relates to purely a closing call. It is covered in more detail in the book Breakthrough 2.0 as it relates to the entire search process.

Steve Finkel [00:19:41]:
You know, I read books on training, amongst other things and, and one of the books on training by a Ph.D. said the after action review developed by the U.S. army, which it was originally, is arguably one of the best training abilities, one of the best training techniques that exists. It was developed by the US army and, and that's what they do. This is what we should be doing as well. I mean, you don't just put the deal together and say, I'm great. You go back and listen to it and say, what's the story here? You know, and where could I have made this better?

Benjamin Mena [00:20:19]:
And the one nice thing, if you're talking about this, about recording and going back, all these AI tools record a lot of that information for you. So it's not like how hard it could be to record that.

Steve Finkel [00:20:30]:
Right.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:30]:
So we, we've covered a lot in the Art of Closing before we kind of jump over to the next part of the podcast, the quick fire. Questions that don't need to be quick answers.

Steve Finkel [00:20:40]:
Okay. I hope so.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:41]:
Is there anything else that you want to go deeper on or maybe that, like we should have covered more?

Steve Finkel [00:20:49]:
Yeah. Franz Kafka, who was a major figure in 20th century literature, said the right book should serve as the frozen as the axe to break the frozen sea within us. And what that meant was the right book should serve as the axe to break the frozen sea within us. Now, as we are discussing it here, the frozen sea within us as we're talking is the habit patterns that an experienced recruiter has developed. He's locked in. He follows up in the same way. Well, despite the fact that what he's doing is two follow ups a week, if it's that much, and that he has to face the fact that two follow ups a week, you know, maybe not closing, he hasn't been expanding his knowledge in this area. He's hooked into a habit pattern.

Steve Finkel [00:21:51]:
And maybe he says, well, I'm better at AI, I'm better at finding candidates. I'm better at LinkedIn, I'm better at all. True. But that is the technical end of the business, the mechanical end of the business. We need to get better at that. Obviously, what the heck, may as well. But the frozen sea within us is the habit patterns, the speaking to people. This book will jolt people out of their habit patterns, experienced people.

Steve Finkel [00:22:15]:
Now, if you say, Steve, is this useful for a new person? Answer. No, no, no, sorry. You know, I've done five books and they all cover completely different material and some of them are more appropriate for newer people than for experienced ones. This one is not truly useful for a new person, but an experienced person needs to go, by golly, I never thought of that. By golly, that's a good idea. Gee whiz, I ought to write that down. Gee, how am I going to learn this one? What does he mean? I really don't want to do these exercises. But he says I'm a lazy so and so.

Steve Finkel [00:22:49]:
If I don't, what the heck, I better do it. You know, this will break the frozen sea of habit patterns that experienced producers fall into.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:04]:
That's good. The Recruiter Sales and business development summit is coming back. It is kicking off January 26, 2026. It is going to be the best, biggest, most focused conference for recruiters to help them grow with business development and sales. Remember, with all the summits, the live sessions are free. If you want to go for the replays, you got two options. You can go VIP on the summit platform, or you can join the community and have access to all the summits. But this is a summit that you do not want to miss.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:33]:
If you want 2026 to be the absolute best year possible, be there, be ready to learn, and be ready to crush it. I'll see you there. Well, I'm kind of curious and we'll make this the first quick fire question if I'm a new recruiter. Listening to our conversation, Steve, first time I've heard you and I'm like, you know what? If Closing for Recruiters is a book that I need to pick up down the road because I'm brand new, what book should I actually pick up from yours?

Steve Finkel [00:24:00]:
Okay. It is correct that the foundation is massively significant. Okay. So I would suggest, look, a new person, probably the book Search and a Handbook for Success by Larry Nobles and Steve Finkel is useful, ideally before a person comes on board. Because the truth is this business is so complex that you can't really thoroughly grasp it. You need to have some foundation of knowledge so you can understand what you're told. As a sub comment, we're hopping over here. That's the same reason why when you as a manager start a new person off, probably start him on a Wednesday, not on a Monday.

Steve Finkel [00:24:45]:
Because if you start him off on a Monday, by the end of the week he will be in the same position as the people that I was doing training programs for. Five day programs. He's going to get intellectually overloaded. He won't be able to process all this stuff. If you start him off on a Wednesday, he'll do Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. He'll have the weekend to go home. He'll digest this stuff and then he'll come back and he's in a different, different level. So I'd say search and placement first of all, ideally before a person comes on board.

Steve Finkel [00:25:16]:
But the foundation of the business to me is getting new clients. Some people do start people off with recruiting. Nothing wrong with that. But I would say the book Unlimited Clients, which purely addresses getting new clients. The business revolves around new clients and it also covers quite extensively getting calls returned. Nobody ever went out of business from having too many customers or too many phone calls returned. And I think unlimited clients would be the next step for a new person. Even if you started off a person, recruiting people start them off differently.

Steve Finkel [00:25:59]:
Unlimited clients certainly should be part of that reading early so they know that by recruiting they can pick up search assignments. And so they keep alert to that possibility. The book Real Recruiting is foundational. The first third of the book, as I have mentioned, is about selecting the right search. It's much more difficult to do than most people think. And if you are the best recruiter in the world and you work on the wrong assignment, no money is going to come in. And then it is how to identify candidates and how to recruit candidates properly. Breakthrough 2.0 is for experienced people.

Steve Finkel [00:26:40]:
And it is basically 35 essays that says, okay, you're the best in the world. I admit this, you're terrific, you're wonderful, I believe it. But I've worked with a lot of good people. Let me tell you where most experienced people could stand some improvement. And then it is 35 facets of this business. As an example, how to motivate. We covered the dead questions. How the dead candidates at follow up after interview can be used to map out the hiring procedure of the interviewer.

Steve Finkel [00:27:15]:
And those notes should be kept with the hiring manager's notes so not left over with the candidate. And that's just simply an easy example. And then finally, at the end of it all, closing for recruiters. These are five books and some of them are on audio. Some people learned a little differently. They are available on downloads as well. I do think that hard copy is a better way to go. It sits on your desk.

Steve Finkel [00:27:44]:
It should be on your desk before you have a closing call. You better be looking at this. And when you have even a follow up after interview, you ought to review it. Hard copy lends itself much more towards review. Even if you just see it there and you go, gee whiz, there it is, I better look at it. But they're available in downloads. And I've got books in 35 countries. And it's quite exotic to get notes from Hong Kong and Japan and Thailand and Australia and so forth.

Steve Finkel [00:28:15]:
But typically downloads there. But hard copy is probably a better way to go. But I do think that, look, the body of knowledge that's required to maximize production in this industry is astronomical. It's astronomical. These books average 300 pages apiece. Some a little more, some a little 300 pages. That's 1500 pages of material. And the repetition is pretty close to zero.

Steve Finkel [00:28:46]:
There are a couple chapters that are slightly duplicated, but pretty close to zero. That's 30 chapters apiece. That's 150 chapters. You walk through the mist and you'll get wet.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:59]:
I gotta ask, like, you've been training for a good amount of time. You've impacted so many people, you've written so many books. Fast forward five, ten years. What's next for you?

Steve Finkel [00:29:10]:
Well, my comment when I finished closing for Recruiters is this is my last book because I don't know anymore. This is not like writing a fiction book, for goodness sakes. At a certain point, I don't know anymore. But audio was useful. Some of my books, real Recruiting as an example, is available in an audio format. And I'm always impressed by people, somewhat surprised by people that have got real recruiting hard copy book and then they buy the audio and they tell me that they absorb it differently. Books, books are first. But nevertheless, I've got some earlier books that could easily be put into an audio format and it's quite possible that I will do that.

Steve Finkel [00:30:00]:
But I do an awful lot of phone consulting. And phone consulting is really interesting because it is similar to doing in house training in that it is absolutely customized with the person that I am working with. And they mail me copies through the email of recording calls. Sometimes I critique the calls, get back to them, do some role playing with them, back and forth. It's very, very interesting. I have been to England at this point 16 times. I've been to Japan. I've been nine months in Africa, three different trips.

Steve Finkel [00:30:32]:
Nine months in Africa. Very interesting to go to a different location and see how they do business and to improve them enormously. But I think at this point it's audios and phone consulting is really interesting to me.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:46]:
Audible. Yes, it's coming. Anyways, the impact that you've made, like you've created a legacy. What's been one of your favorite things and favorite impacts that you've made over these decades?

Steve Finkel [00:31:02]:
Look, it's the people you'll notice in the acknowledgments of this book or mostly my books. I acknowledge these people are helpful. I will say I acknowledge the contribution of my dog, which is good, and other people. But when I get a phone call, I had a situation probably a couple of years ago where I put together a deal. I work a desk too. Less than I used to, but I still do. And I put together a deal and it was about a $25,000 fee. And I'm going, by golly, pretty fair, pretty fair, complimenting myself.

Steve Finkel [00:31:41]:
And then I got a phone call from someone Happened to be a fellow in England. He called me up and he said, you know, I really want to thank you because you were here with, working with my operation and I have become very successful over the years and I want to thank you about it. Tom Alacio, whom I believe you've interviewed yourself. I did a five day program in Tom's operation some years ago and then a two day follow up and he became quite successful. He's got talent. But he called me up and he thanked me. And I get letters from people, mostly in the United States because that's most of where I do business from. But I get notes or letters or emails or calls or so forth from people.

Steve Finkel [00:32:20]:
You're, you're passing things on. People have given me, my previous firms have really poured huge amounts of sales training and knowledge and so forth into me. And then I got into this business and managed to take that material and blend it with this business to produce something very, very different. And I have passed it on. And every time someone picks up the phone and calls me or sends me an email or puts something up on Amazon or something on LinkedIn about. Steve's a heck of a guy and I appreciate it. That's a pretty good feeling to have.

Benjamin Mena [00:32:59]:
So with all the training that you've had and you've sat down with thousands of recruiters, maybe even thousands of managers, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of firms, I'm sure most of the conversations about, like, typically about how you get more business, things you can do to increase, like how good you are in all those conversations that you have and have had. Is there ever a time where you're like, I just wish you would ask this question, or I wish they would ask this question, but they never do. And what question would that be?

Steve Finkel [00:33:32]:
The real question that they should be asking is, how much time should I be spending outside of the office learning this business? And my answer to that is, how much time are you spending outside of the office learning this business and perfecting your skills? I do not wish to pick on anybody, but once again, the answer is, for the most part, less than it should be. Less than it should be. Andrew Carnegie, very fine foul. U.S. steel, great background, said that the career is made or marred in the time away from the office. And that's interesting. And he's not talking about wasting time drinking. He's talking about how much time do you spend away from the office, learning to spend the time that you are in the office more productive.

Steve Finkel [00:34:34]:
You know, you cannot sit around reading books when you should be working at the office. You should be doing a review. There's no question about that. You got to close. You better review this stuff. You got to follow up. You better review this stuff. But you really shouldn't be sitting around the office reading my wonderful books.

Steve Finkel [00:34:52]:
You should be working outside of the office to get this done. And then, okay, fine, how do I implement this within the office? Most people really don't spend time outside of the office. For the most part, they think that eight hours a day in the office, nine hours a day in the office. What else do I have to do? The answer is you have to get better. You have to get better. And that means outside of the office, there are plenty of people that. Some people do it differently. Some people will commit to reading a chapter a day or listening to an audio 10 to 15 minutes of real recruiting every morning on the way to work.

Steve Finkel [00:35:35]:
Some people will work on weekends or something of that nature. But look, this is interesting stuff. It took me a long time to get to be a good writer. I like learning new things, and one of the things I had to learn to do was to be a good writer. To be honest with you, it's not like I was born this way. This is an interesting book. I mean, if you've got any interest in this business at all, you read it and you go, by golly, I've had that happen to me. Gee whiz, he's right.

Steve Finkel [00:36:00]:
Gosh, how come? It's interesting, and the more interesting it is, and I write it so that it is interesting, the easier it is to learn, the more it'll stick and the more your production. Mm.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:14]:
Well, Steve, we've covered a lot, and before I let you go, I got a few more questions. But the first question is, is like, is there anything else that you want to go deeper on or you want to expand upon that? Like, I just did not ask that right question for you.

Steve Finkel [00:36:30]:
No, I don't want to pick on people. You know, it's. I, I, I, I'm. I'm seriously committed to the improvement of this industry, and I'm seriously committed to the improvement of every single solitary person that's listening to this or eventually that is watching this. And I can only. I know the material will work for you, and your side of it is to go out and do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:56]:
Steve, if somebody wants to follow you or find you, how do they go about doing that?

Steve Finkel [00:37:03]:
I'm easy to find. My website is just Steve Finkel. S-G-E-V-E-F-I-N-K-E L.com and up at that website, there is also my email address. There actually is my phone number. I do return phone calls. I still do a fair amount of traveling. I'm booked up sometimes with telephone consulting, but I'm available to talk with people for the most part. I do think that most of the time people call and I have a tendency to say, look, that's a great question.

Steve Finkel [00:37:38]:
It's covered in Chapter 42 of my recent book. So, you know, so you can't quite compress things, just as I can't compress this book into this whatever hour and a half program we've done. But I'm findable and it's a terrific industry. It's a great industry, but it definitely lends itself towards skill improvement. And if you say that it's a sales industry and most of us do, putting aside the technological aspects of it, that's where you better spend your time.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:11]:
Well, Steve, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Again, thank you so much for sharing. Like I said, I think maybe about halfway through or at the very beginning, I've done a lot of interviews with top billers. I've done a lot of interviews with firm owners. And there's been a consistent theme across the board when, and this is mostly in the conversations that sometimes aren't recorded, how much of impact that you've had on recruiters out there. Like, I'm guessing overall the numbers is probably billions of dollars in revenue over the years. So if this is your first chance to listen to Steve or watch Steve, go back and listen to some of these top billers that I've had on, hit them up. Like his books, his training is one of the foundations of our industry and really a true legacy and of impact.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:04]:
So I just wanted to say thank you for coming on, spending time with me, spending time with the listeners, spending time with people that are excited about growing and excited about crushing it and getting better with their sales skills. And in that, before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share before.

Steve Finkel [00:39:20]:
Benjamin, you're a darn good interviewer. Honestly, I have never agreed to interviews in the past because I believe that I'm inclined to present material rather than do interviews. But a number of people that I have great regard for suggested that you did a darn good interview. It's a wonderful industry and it lends itself towards. I like learning things. I mean, I like learning new things. And it keeps you vibrant, it keeps you interested and refreshed and moving forward. And I'm still on the improvement trail.

Steve Finkel [00:39:56]:
You asked me a long time ago what I attributed my success to. I don't think of myself as successful. I think of myself as improving. And that's how everyone should think of themselves. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:07]:
Well, Steve, once again, thank you so much for the listeners out there. This is your chance. As we're walking into this world of AI, our industry is changing. The world's changing. And one of the things that's really gonna set you apart is these sales skills. While half the world's chasing a shiny object, you can go out there and collect the business. You can go out there and win the work. You can go out there and change other people's lives.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:33]:
Like, this is a business where we change people's lives and we get paid for it. Here's the thing. Learning sales skills and learning closing. We get a chance to do more of that and we get rewarded. So go out there and crush it. Make this year the best year ever. Running a recruiting firm is enough work. You shouldn't need five vendors to manage your online presence.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:52]:
With recruiters websites, you get it all in one place. Websites, SEO, paid ads, automation, and ongoing strategy. All built specifically for recruiters. We understand your industry, your clients, and your challenges. Simplify your marketing and strengthen your results. Mention Elite Recruiter and get 10% off any new service at recruiterswebsites.com Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas. The AI first recruitment platform built for modern agencies.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:20]:
Doesn't only track resumes and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available. And now it's entering a whole new era. With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With MagicSearch, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply looking for keywords.

Benjamin Mena [00:41:39]:
Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With opportunities, you can track, manage and grow client relationships. Powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow. Need insights. Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline. And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. No admin, no silos, no lost info, nothing but faster shortlists, better hires, and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:08]:
Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting. Don't miss the the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com thanks for listening.

Intro [00:42:19]:
To this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.