Why the Best Recruiters Don’t Chase Deals Anymore

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
The Recruiter, Sales and Business Development Summit is coming back. It is kicking off January 26, 2026. It is going to be the best, biggest, most focused conference for recruiters to help them grow with business development and sales. Remember, with all the summits, the live sessions are free. If you want to go for the replays, you got two options. You can go VIP on the Summit platform or you can join the community, have access to all the summits. But this is a summit that you do not want to miss. If you want 2026 to be the absolute best year possible there, be ready to learn and be ready to crush it.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:34]:
I'll see you there. Coming up on this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast.

Michael Silverstein [00:00:39]:
I was able to get people to take a chance on me. I wasn't telling them I knew everything. I wasn't telling them that I even knew what they did. I just told them that if you give me a shot, I'm not going to take it for granted. I'm going to go work my ass off. People in this group have asked me like, how are you monetizing this? I was like, everybody in this group gives me their search business. That's how I'm monetizing it. I get inbounds every single day.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:01]:
Welcome to the Elite Recruiter Podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership and placements. Admin is a massive waste of time. That's why there's Atlas, the AI first recruitment platform built for modern agencies. It doesn't only track resumes and calls. It remembers everything. Every email, every interview, every conversation. Instantly searchable, always available.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:35]:
And now it's entering a whole new era. With Atlas 2.0, you can ask anything and it delivers. With MagicSearch, you speak and it listens. It finds the right candidates using real conversations, not simply looking for keywords. Atlas 2.0 also makes business development easier than ever. With opportunities you can track, manage and grow client relationships. Powered by generative AI and built right into your workflow need insights. Custom dashboards give you total visibility over your pipeline.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:00]:
And that's not theory. Atlas customers have reported up to 41% EBITDA growth and an 85% increase in monthly billings after adopting the platform. No admin, no silos, no lost info. Nothing but faster shortlists, better hires, and more time to focus on what actually drives revenue. Atlas is your personal AI partner for modern recruiting. Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer@reruitwithatlas.com I am so excited about this episode of the podcast because this guest averages 2.5 to $3 million a year. But here's the thing.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:34]:
He's found a way to leverage his time, his energy and his effort in a way that I've never seen a recruiter ever do this before. It's one of those things like he wanted to get off the hamster wheel, the treadmill of recruiting the day in and day out. And he wanted to find a way to compound his time, compound his energy, and compound the relationships that he developed. And we are going to break this down. I am so excited to have Mike on the podcast today. Welcome, Mike.

Michael Silverstein [00:03:03]:
Well, thank you, Ben. Appreciate you.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:05]:
I know Rich Rosen put you up to this. So excited about this interview.

Michael Silverstein [00:03:08]:
He put me up to a lot of things over the years.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:12]:
So before we dive in, quick 30 second self introduction.

Michael Silverstein [00:03:15]:
Thank you, brother. Yeah, I started in the recruiting business in 2008 in a really tough time after a three month career in commercial real estate, which was my biggest big, my big grandiose plan. And so started at this little five person recruiting firm after losing my. My job right out of college. Three months in and that firm had been recruiting in the manufacturing automation space, which was really, really tough. And about six months into cold calling and getting nowhere, was fortunate to start the healthcare tech and life sciences practice here at Direct Recruiters out of Cleveland, Ohio.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:48]:
Okay, wait, so you like, six months into even learning the job, you started a whole new practice?

Michael Silverstein [00:03:56]:
Yeah, and certainly not very glamorous. It was more out of survival. In 2008, I was charged to go NPC and go cold call and find business. The firm that I worked for had been around since 83 and was on a little bit of tough times. The economy was really tough. And so I was cold calling people in a database that had been, you know, was 10, 15 years old. And people were like, hey man, we're firing people. We're not hiring people.

Michael Silverstein [00:04:20]:
Good luck. And so my job was to go find leads and go find business. There was nothing to recruit on. And eventually got the CEO of the company to agree to send me to a trade show in Chicago at McCormick in the healthcare tech space, which we had started to dabble on the periphery in and got him to do that and spent some money and kiss babies and shook hands for a couple days and got a bunch of business cards in a new industry and brought him back and cold called my way into it. So that's how I got started.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:47]:
I want to take a step back. So you were three months into a commercial real estate career that you thought you were going. That was your future?

Michael Silverstein [00:04:54]:
Yeah. So I had interned for three different commercial real estate firms in college. One of them hired me as a publicly traded firm that hired me going back into my senior year of school. And so while I was A senior in 2007, 2008, I had a job in my pocket. I was drinking a lot of beer and not paying too much attention to what was going on in the world. Their stock price dropped from 55 bucks a share to 5 bucks a share while I was a senior in college. It's a funny story. I had a senior project class that was the whole.

Michael Silverstein [00:05:22]:
It was a seminar class. It was the 10 lessons in real Business. And it was actually the guy that ran that class was the president of Monster.com Skilled Labor Division, who was a former Miami grad. So it was interesting that there's a little recruiting connection. But the final project for that class was to write a 10 page, 10 year plan. And in that 10 page, 10 year plan, I had this big career planned out in real estate. And I was going to marry the girl that I was dating for two years in college. And within three months after graduating, I broke up with the girl and lost my job in real estate.

Michael Silverstein [00:05:52]:
And so my whole tenure plan went out the window. So.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:54]:
Out the window. Oh, okay. So, like, how did you end up in this recruiting chair?

Michael Silverstein [00:05:59]:
It was, again, totally by accident. The real estate industry was in the dumps. And I had a friend from high school and college whose dad had this recruiting firm, Direct Recruiters. I didn't know anything about recruiting. I was like, hey, maybe he'll help me find a job. And he ended up offering me a job for half what I was making two weeks earlier. And none of my friends could find jobs. And I was like, whatever, man.

Michael Silverstein [00:06:20]:
You live in a big house. Let's get after it. So that's what I'm. That's what I'm looking for.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:24]:
So, like, he literally hired you when the entire operation was struggling.

Michael Silverstein [00:06:28]:
I learned at a later date that his name is Shell Meyeroff. He's the. Was the founder of Drug Recruiters, that he went $80,000 into his retirement to make payroll. And so he didn't lay anybody off during that time. That's how bad business was. So I didn't find that out for a couple years. But that, you know, really hit me and have never taken that for granted. And I was fortunate that he took that gamble and saw something in a 22 year old kid that was worth investing in.

Michael Silverstein [00:06:55]:
And forever grateful for that.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:57]:
I just, like, the world's on fire. Like, I remember that time period and like, he could have just said no to you.

Michael Silverstein [00:07:04]:
So my partner, David Peterson, who I've worked with now for 17 years, he was the guy. He'd been there for 25 years. As of today, he's been there 25 years. He was the one that had an opening on his team, that he was looking for somebody, and he turned me down. At the time, I was like, can I go back to undergrad? Like, this is terrible. But I. I did an end around on David and I got Shelly. I was like, shelly, I can do this job.

Michael Silverstein [00:07:25]:
So I got him to hire me personally. And so I saw David actually around town the weekend before I started. I was like, hey, great news. I'm starting your company. He goes, what? I go, yeah, I got Shelley to hire me. And so every year on my anniversary, David calls me and tells me that he could have retired a decade earlier had he made a different decision and pulled the trigger. Though we laugh about it as he's one of my favorite people.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:49]:
Yeah, but you just never know. But like, I. Okay, let's jump into your first year. Like, you jumped into a horrible market. Six months in, you started a whole brand new division, bought a ticket, sent you to a trade show and said, you know, go shake some hands, kiss some babies. What did your first year look like? Like, would you walk away with that year?

Michael Silverstein [00:08:07]:
44,000 bucks. And that was a fricking grind. I mean, to give you an idea, we were in full. As Shelly would say, it's wartime around here. You know, we were in full, like, survival mode. And, you know, right at the end of a month, we had closed two pretty big deals and he took me golfing, and that was on a Friday afternoon. By Monday morning, both of those deals had fallen apart. And so it was just.

Michael Silverstein [00:08:32]:
It was tough, man. And I. I didn't know any different or any better. And so I was fortunate that I had some of the folks that had been at the company for years. I'd stick around with late at night, after the day, and I'd be like, man, and they'd be like, hang in there. This will get better. They had seen better days. And every Wednesday, my dad would meet me at Subway, like, down the street and buy me a sandwich and, like, talk me off the ledge for the first six months.

Michael Silverstein [00:08:56]:
But honestly, you know, I was looking for a Career I had been kicked around to get. Getting canned in real estate really sucked and hurt kind of, you know, put me in a position where, like, I was gonna. If somebody was gonna take the time to invest in me, I was gonna work my ass off. I was determined to be successful at something, and I knew I had it in me, but I just needed an opportunity.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:18]:
So you've seen a lot of recruiters, and I know, like, we, like the 2002, 2003 was like, kind of like the golden era of just recruiting. You had to grind it out back in 2008. Do you think if you started a great time, things would be a little different for you?

Michael Silverstein [00:09:34]:
I. I do. Look, I mean, you know, that experience in starting in a really tough time gave me an insatiable kind of hunger and feeling of scarcity that has stuck around with me to this day. I never took for granted a day in this and that, like in recruiting, your desk could look amazing on a Tuesday, and by Thursday morning it could be a bunch of crap, like everything could fall apart. And so I think what's probably been a key to just my success, just as far as stability, is that I always, always did business development, like, every day. And I never. There was never a time where I was like, oh, I got a lot of good things to recruit out. I'll go develop business later.

Michael Silverstein [00:10:17]:
If anything, the business development side of recruiting was really the part that I enjoyed the most. Recruiting was kind of a necessary evil. And so not that it was evil, but it just wasn't my favorite. I liked the chase, I liked the hunt, I liked the new customers. I liked salesperson. Right. But that scarcity of knowing that stuff could disappear, knowing that, you know, nobody was going to hand me anything. Nobody knew who the heck direct recruiters was or Mike Silverstein in the healthcare space.

Michael Silverstein [00:10:42]:
And I didn't know. You know, I was learning every day and I was getting. I was fortunate because at the time, even in healthcare tech, there was a lot of people that are out of work and they were pretty senior people. And so I was fortunate to be able to catch pretty senior people that were maybe out of work or in the job market that would take the time to explain to me what they did and explain the industry to me, which. That really helped me with some early understanding of my space. And I mean, I still work with some of those people to this day that I met in 2009, 2010. Like, some of them, I mean, I've been fortunate. I'm the guy that has friends, some of My best friends with the same people I've been hanging out with since first grade.

Michael Silverstein [00:11:17]:
Right. And so been able to cultivate relationships that have lasted a long, long time and frankly, have become friends. And people that, like, you know, going to trade shows these days are exciting for me because I end up just getting beers and hanging out with people, and people come to me and. And I've been able to build on that over the years. And it's just stylistically, that's just what's always worked for me, and I've never taken that for granted.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:40]:
I'm really going to, like, take apart your relationship strategies later on. But, you know, you hit your first year going into your second year or third year, like, when did you start really hitting your stride?

Michael Silverstein [00:11:52]:
So I probably tripled my income from my second year. I was able to get people to take a chance on me. I wasn't telling them I knew everything. I wasn't telling them that I even knew what they did. I just told them that if you give me a shot, I'm not going to take it for granted. I'm going to go work my ass off. I'm not going to let you down. People appreciated the fact that I was, I think, hustling, and I was a young guy that was genuine and trying to do it.

Michael Silverstein [00:12:14]:
Whatever. Whatever I said I was going to do, I made sure that I did it. If I told somebody I was going to follow up with them, I would follow up with them. Like, I was maniacal about that. And I was a quick learner, and I was good with remembering things about people. I was never good at putting stuff in a database. I was terrible at that. And, you know, following through with people was always important.

Michael Silverstein [00:12:29]:
You know, keeping your word and just building that trust. And so, you know, I got some folks to be able to take a chance on me. And it turned out early on, I had this one chief revenue officer that let me hire some salespeople for him, and then he referred me to another buddy of his who is another chief revenue officer. And it turns out those were two portfolio companies from Francisco Partners, the private equity firm. And so that was pretty, pretty great early on. And that FP at one point called me pretty early in my career and said, hey, we've been hearing your name. Who are you? And I said, who are you? And so it turned out, you know, fast forward. I've been a preferred partner for a really great private equity firm that started really, really early on and probably made a hundred deals in that portfolio over the years.

Michael Silverstein [00:13:09]:
And it was because just one guy introduced me to another buddy and said, hey, Mike's. Mike's gonna hustle and he's trustworthy. Give him a shot. And that was kind of just how I got going.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:20]:
Okay, so we talk, like, we say constantly that we're in the relationship business. Yep, that's what we say. Like, every recruiter says that, but I feel like not every recruiter is like this good with relationships. Like, how did you get good with this? Like, people call you, referrals come in. Like.

Michael Silverstein [00:13:38]:
So early on, really early, I, in the. The kitchen at dri, was watching Jeff K's training videos from the next level exchange, and I was listening to Scott Love's training CDs, which DRI folks will tell you like, I think I traded that car in and the CDs never came back. I think I traded them with it with. And they were not cheap. But Scott loves Big concept that always stuck with me was, you know, put deposits in the bank account before you make withdrawals. And so I think I was. I was talking to my wife about this recently in that my kids, I think, have a similar thing and that, like, I always had as a kid and growing up kind of a. An EQ spidey sense around just when I was in a room with people of, like, I could tell when people were comfortable or uncomfortable.

Michael Silverstein [00:14:22]:
And I was the kid that would always like talking to adults. What I didn't love about cold calling and early on and NPC was it always seemed very, very transactional. It's very like, you've got money, I need your money. Can you buy what I'm selling you? And I just never. I never thought that was a sustainable strategy to a career. I thought it was very, you know, had to be at the right place at the right time, all the time. And so it was really important early on to me to figure out, okay, how do I build something where I don't have to be at the right place at the right time, but I leave the right impression with people that I can create some mind share and get some real estate in somebody's mind and then work on getting real estate in somebody's mind and then working on my positioning and my branding with that person over time. Right.

Michael Silverstein [00:15:03]:
And so, so that I would be the. If they had a need or they wanted to make a career change or frankly, look from a relationship standpoint, if their kid needed a job, if their college roommate, if their spouse, right. I. To this day, I probably talked to four or five calls a week with Kids, spouses, roommates, you know, best friends who are having a tough time. And I find myself, I'm a guy that, you know, I don't care who I talk to, whether it's a, you know, the, a waiter or waitress that's busting their ass or somebody that I'm big, had a big corporate career. Like I get pep talks to people. I'm like, look, you've had a great career. You're fantastic.

Michael Silverstein [00:15:39]:
Like just let giving people a cup of self esteem because when people have done that for me over the years, it's just, it, it was meaningful. And so I think that to me, you go help somebody's kid who's, you know, in college and needs to put their resume together, or their spouse or their neighbor who's been unemployed for six months. There's nothing better you can do than that. As far as building relationship with somebody. I don't care how many problems you solve for them professionally. If you help somebody in their network that's important to them and take the time to do that, that puts you in a different spot.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:10]:
You've talked about leveraging your time and building a brand and that kind of stuff. And I want to talk about the networking group in a second. But before that networking group kicked off, was there any other dumb ideas that you tried that ended up working or not working?

Michael Silverstein [00:16:25]:
I. Yeah, I, you know, I always. Not a bunch of really formal ideas, but I always made sure I always went to my. I was fortunate my firm saw the value in sending me and some of my colleagues to trade shows. So I always found value in seeing people in person. Right. This is a phone business and, and we could talk about that because I think that there's a referendum on that these days with some of the earlier in career folks, but even more so like seeing people in person, letting them see that you're a real person and that you're, you're not just a recruiter, you're actually in the industry and making sure that I would take the time to go press the flesh. I would, you know, take people out for coffee.

Michael Silverstein [00:17:08]:
I get to know about people's families and kids and things like that. And I tell them about my family and kids and friends. It's me, it's who I am. I just authentic. It was always important to me that the person that on the phone during the day was the same person that was with my buddies on the weekends. And I just found that that translated and I think if you ever folks that try to put on this Persona during the Day. I think people see through that, at least the good ones and the people, the people that you want to do business with can see through if you're being genuine or not. And so one of the things I emphasize with everybody is just be yourself and like unapologetic and authentic and people will appreciate that.

Michael Silverstein [00:17:44]:
If you're trying to be something you're not, people won't trust you. And this is a trust based business.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:48]:
So before I go to the next question, it seemed like on the tip of your tongue you wanted to say something about phones and younger recruiters. Just say it, dude.

Michael Silverstein [00:17:57]:
We're in the people business and AI and, and drip campaigns and things like that. That's all wonderful, but it's only wonderful if you're using it to get on the phone with people and to build relationships. I think the way that we're going to avoid being replaced in this industry is by being a market master and knowing the people and knowing the industry. If all you know is how to set mousetraps, you will get replaced in this industry. And so I think, you know, in mails and emails and texts and all that stuff, I think, you know, some of the younger folks in this industry think, okay, talking on the phone is inefficient. Why do I need to do that? I think it's a little bit of a commentary on just the generation that's coming out of school these days. But I'll tell you what, the people that make decisions and the people that have the budgets, they're calling, the people that they trust, they're not responding to. They're not sending you big five and six figure checks because you had an awesome drip campaign.

Michael Silverstein [00:18:56]:
Get on the phone and then I'll get off my soapbox.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:00]:
I saw it in your eyes and I'm like, he wants to say it. Let me just open the door. But okay, so awesome, Perfect. I want to talk about what absolutely blew my mind when you shared at the Pinnacle Society. There are a lot of ways, like leverage your time and do things in our business. There's. I really need to find another terminology, but there's a thousand ways to skin the cat and then this game. There's so many ways to build a recruiting business.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:24]:
You have a networking group that has turned into like the greatest business development tool I've like, probably seen out of like recruiters out there. Explain the networking group. And I want to like, how did this even start to come about?

Michael Silverstein [00:19:37]:
It was pretty organic in that. Again, I've been doing this almost 17 years. So starting to have customers and important people in my career that were starting to age into doing more fractional and board and advisory stuff and not really fit squarely into my day to day anymore. But they were people I really wanted to stay in touch with who had been really integral to my career. And so a lot of those folks had had big corporate careers, and for the first time in their life, they're putting a shingle out to be an advisor. And they had never done anything like that before. And so my thesis around that was twofold. One, I wanted to stay in touch with these folks.

Michael Silverstein [00:20:15]:
Two, these were all really influential people who had the ear, people that trusted me, had valued the relationship with me. And they're people that had the ear of investors and CEOs, right? So if they were a former chief revenue officer, they were getting hired by high profile companies to advise them on their commercial strategy or, you know, things along those lines. And my thought around always trying to not have to be in the right place at the right time was if that person and me have the same constituent, a CEO, an investor, and if they're at the table advising a company and that company is about to go through a growth spurt, I want somebody at the table that say, hey, you should call Mike. And it was building a. You know, I had a Rolodex of folks that were like that, that were starting to do that kind of stuff. There were bankers, lawyers, accountants, consultants, product people, you name it. And in addition to that piece of it, they were a trusted advisor to someone. They had never promoted themselves personally.

Michael Silverstein [00:21:17]:
Most of them were entrepreneurs. And so my whole idea was, let me get this group of folks together that are important to me. They're all great people that like each other. And all of them were looking for ways to get business for their own consulting. And so I made a career around being the guy that, like, knows a guy, hey, I know a guy. Let me introduce you. And I wanted to pay that forward around. Let's get this group of people around the table so that they can be the person that says, hey, you need a lawyer, I've got a great person.

Michael Silverstein [00:21:43]:
You need a recruiter, I've got a great person. And we would exchange introductions to that effect. And that's how it started. And that was great. And frankly, it's just grown organically in that I talk to interesting people every week. And anybody that I find super interesting, I just invite to this group. And so fast forward, I'd get that group together monthly on Zoom, and we'd kind of talk Shop and whatever it was up to started probably about 10 people. I have 650 people in that group today.

Michael Silverstein [00:22:10]:
It's probably a third investors, 2/3 operators. There's probably 50 heads of portfolio talent from investment firms. And they're just all people I talk to and deal with throughout the year. And I just decided because I'm terrible at putting them in a database that if I just put them all on a spreadsheet, invite them all to a group and get them to show up and work on keeping that sticky from a content perspective, it'd be great. And you know, lo and behold, I'm like the only recruiter in there. So I never really talk about recruiting, but I try to make it really curated, interesting content for that audience. And you know, it gives me license to email that group every week with the new people and send out really interesting stuff and host these interesting webinars and people jokingly call it. It's like Mike's network mafia.

Michael Silverstein [00:22:51]:
But I'm like the recruiter that everybody knows and sees and hears from every week and like asks and they're telling their friends. And I'm getting inbound all the time, like, hey, can I invite the chief medical officer from whatever to our group? I'm like, yeah, twist my arm, sure. So it's, it's been pretty powerful from a network effect perspective.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:08]:
So for that networking zoom call that you have on a monthly basis, like what's the structure of it that it's so good that people want to keep on coming back?

Michael Silverstein [00:23:16]:
So I have three 20 minute vlogs and I try to have different folks bring in different speakers. So I have whether it's investors, CEOs of tech companies. A couple weeks ago I had the guy that ran the innovation group for Johns Hopkins Health System, it's like their VC arm. And then he ran that for seven years and then he jumped in and was a CEO of one of their portfolio companies for a couple years and he ran it into the ground and he gave a presentation on what not to do as a healthcare tech founder. Right. And so you name it, I have had all different kinds of people just give. Basically my ask of them is give a presentation on a topic you're a subject matter expert in that you're really passionate about. That would be interesting to the group.

Michael Silverstein [00:24:00]:
And just don't make it a commercial about just your business. We'll plug your business if you have one. But just talk to the group about something you're passionate about. And this ecosystem, it keeps it really diverse and keeps it, you know, from all different types of constituents. And I think people come because I work pretty hard to find interesting people to talk about interesting things that are content they're not going to find anywhere else.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:22]:
I've seen you talk multiple times about selling without selling. You've become a relationship king. Like at the end of the day, like how do you take these things and flip it actually into business?

Michael Silverstein [00:24:33]:
Part of it is again, it's just mind share. My subliminal messaging, when I send out these emails every week with another 10, 12 new people for the networking group that are all like top executives in the industry is my brand is that I freaking know everybody, right? So if you're gonna hire a recruiter, who you wanna hire? The guy that knows everybody that I see that this roster I send the link around that makes connections, that knows the investors, that knows the CEOs that knows the, you name it, or somebody that just has a great pitch and is gonna tell me about all their process. Like the proof's in the pudding. And that's really kind of the subliminal branding that I've been able to achieve. And so people in this group have asked me like, how are you monetizing this? It's like everybody in this group gives me their search business. That's how I'm monetizing it. I get inbounds every single day from investors who are about to close on a portfolio company, who want to do a build out before the dollars even close, or the CEO that needs this. Half the people in this group are people I've placed in jobs too.

Michael Silverstein [00:25:29]:
Right. And so just, you know, again, building that Malcolm Gladwell book, the tipping point, building that networking effect and kind of being that maven, that connector, that's really the brand that I've really tried to build and I think I've done a decent job at doing.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:43]:
And I know you're 17 years into this game. This networking group has been around for a while now. Like looking at your book of business right now on a yearly basis like you're 2.5 to 3 million average, how much of that percentage wise really comes from this networking group?

Michael Silverstein [00:25:56]:
Maybe half, two thirds. But I've been fortunate in that I don't know, I don't. I was asked the other day like, who are your biggest customers? And early in my career, for, you know, probably the first 10 years in my career, every year probably my biggest customer would either change HR leaders or get acquired. And so it was always a vulnerability to me to have like that 80, 20 concentration and so at any given time, I probably have between 50 and 70 active customers. And that changes constantly because my business in healthcare tech is very transient around companies being acquired and merging and things like that. And so I had to always be really, really hustling for new relationships. And it kind of jived with my interest of being kind of that hunter relationship builder. And so, you know, I don't have a big concentration anywhere, but I do have a good concentration as far as investors that use me across their portfolios.

Michael Silverstein [00:26:52]:
And so as they're raising new funds and deploying capital, I've learned that, you know, align myself with those guys and become a trusted friend to them. And I, I could talk more about how I pay it forward with those guys, but following the money and being connected to the money versus being connected to certain companies, at least in my space, because just the company that was awesome for 5 years, next year won't be around or they get acquired. Right. And so I had to, I, I've got my built loyalty to people versus companies over the years and had to kind of change that mindset. But doing that and hitching my wagon to great people that are talented and also trying to follow the money, build relationships where the money is.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:29]:
You said something about paying it forward with the investors. Where were you going to go with that?

Michael Silverstein [00:27:33]:
Yeah. In March of 2020, I always had an interest. I had done some work in the investment world, but In March of 2020, I run a desk in the healthcare software business. And that, you know, unless you sold, if you were a company that sold PPE to hospitals in 2020, nobody was buying software, right. So my business pretty much shut down overnight for a few months. And I had a team of folks that worked for me that I had to look at and be like, okay, we're gonna get through this. Right? And so, you know, I decided that it was a good time because a lot of these investment folks are hard to reach. They were traveling a ton, they were sitting at home in their pajamas also.

Michael Silverstein [00:28:09]:
So I was gonna make a point of like cold calling and making a lot of outreach. And so I figured out at the time that the things that these investors, you know, they're similar to recruiters. They're sourcing deals, they're trying to meet key executives that they can plug into these portfolio companies. They're folks that can be advisors. They want information, they want connectivity, right? And so when I talk to a new investor, I ask them what stage companies do they invest in, what size checks do they write, what thesis areas are they focused on, who can I introduce you to that would help inform a thesis you're working on. If I have a company that's, you know, looking to raise money or looking to sell and it's in your area, would you be interested in hearing about them? Because I hear that stuff all the time. And it's yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. And I've become, fortunately, you know, a bird dog for a lot of firms that I get texts all week long, hey, Mike, do you know this person? Or what do you think of this person? Or can you introduce us over here? Or what have you? And so figuring out what KPIs are they trying to hit every week and how can I help them do that and again, become the de facto guy that can help them recruit once they buy those companies or invest in those companies.

Michael Silverstein [00:29:20]:
Because the brand again I build is that I know everybody in my niche. That's the brand I'm trying to build. Demonstrating that by making pro bono introductions, like, I've gotten people hired on boards that I didn't charge for, and it was just a major deposit in the bank account for some of these folks. And the return favor was, yeah, Mike said, if we're going to build out a team, we're going to call Mike and direct recruiters. Because, like, they've been so good to us and they've done so much stuff for us. I mean, I, you know, I get in the holidays, right? I get like, I got investors sending me golf balls and stuff to say thank you. And they're, like, apologizing to me that they haven't had recruiting work for us yet because we've been going out of our way so much the whole time.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:00]:
So you really are just, like, depositing a lot of stuff and not looking for an actionable return that very second.

Michael Silverstein [00:30:06]:
100%. I learned from a woman named Kathy Willis years ago, and I've talked about her in other podcasts, but she was one of the first people I placed in healthcare tech in probably 2009, and she was one of the best sellers I'd ever worked with. She's retired these days, and she told me, mike, resist the urge to sell. If you can not sell on the first call, you go from being in the sales bucket to being in the. Huh. That was really interesting. And you could put yourself in the trusted advisor bucket. And so the more you can put deposits in and without, people are waiting for you for the ask.

Michael Silverstein [00:30:40]:
And if you can get to the end of the phone call without the ask, without making the Ask people are like, holy crap, that was wild. He didn't, he just offered to help and did some things to help me and didn't ask for anything. And it permanently puts you in a different bucket in people's heads. And that has transcended decades now for me.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:59]:
One of the things that you mentioned earlier is that you've become like a preferred partner to like some of these VCs and PEs. Like everybody like every recruiter is out there is looking like oh hey Mr. VC, Mr. PE. Like you have all the money I want in and they have walls up higher than the Great Wall of China. How did you actually become the go to person that these people call? Like, we don't need the thousands of other recruiters.

Michael Silverstein [00:31:25]:
We got Mike deposits in the bank account, sending them companies, sending them people, sending them like, hey, here's a CEO that I think you should know. We send out on a monthly basis roughly a list of the 10, 15 most interesting people we talk to every month, including their resumes. And we send it to all our investor friends and we don't charge for those when they want to talk to those people. Our thought was the chances of us placing those people are, you know, 1 in 100. It's a pay everybody, all those senior execs want to increase in their investor network. And so it's a pay it forward, it's a deposit in the bank account for the senior execs, it's a deposit in the bank account to get a pulse on the top talent. And if we could broker those introductions and not ask for it, it's one thing to retain search firm industry does a lot better than the mid mid management contingent arena is they do a lot of that kind of stuff. And so a lot of the stuff I'm doing, I didn't reinvent the wheel but you know, I gave a lot of that connectivity away.

Michael Silverstein [00:32:25]:
And again, branding, it was entirely a branding exercise. When I cold call them and we'd have that in, I get them to talk to me, we have that initial conversation. I would ask them, hey, is it okay if I send you my mailer once a month? Yeah, sure. And so five, six years later, they've been getting it, it's gotten passed around the investment community and I, I've gotten to know tons of the. There was a job in investment firms that is the head of portfolio talent and I've befriended and worked with tons of those gals and guys. And I found out, I talked to one of my friends who's in that role A week ago that there is a secret, like Slack Channel for all the heads of talent across all these investors. And she told me that my name comes up every month and there's like several people in that group every month, that it's a mic straight use Mike. And so that was like.

Michael Silverstein [00:33:09]:
And again, I'm not asking for anything. I'm trying to be easy to work with. I'm trying to help any way I can. People ask me like, I don't have the time. I gotta go make money. I'm like, you don't. If you do that stuff, the money will come, the business will come to you. You won't have to go find the business.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:25]:
Okay? So I just want to say this one more time just to make sure for the listeners that they got this straight. Like, you send out a mailer once a month via email with like the top 10 to 15 people that you guys think are the most interesting. The resumes are in there and you don't charge a single dime for those connections.

Michael Silverstein [00:33:39]:
No, the ask we have is if there's a real search tied to a real company is, hey, can you make an introduction for us to basically pitch our services to that portfolio company? But you can, you can talk to that person. That's no problem. Okay. We use that as a means to make an ask. But if it's. If it's somebody that's just a, hey, we'd love to hire this person, talk to them as an advisor for a project or from some diligence all day. I don't charge that. There's people that have been hired for boards that I don't.

Michael Silverstein [00:34:07]:
I haven't charged for either. But it's open the door in a million places.

Benjamin Mena [00:34:13]:
So these two have already been like, very interesting things that are completely out of the box. And like, I know when you talked about it at the Pinnacle meeting, I was like, hot damn, this is good. Is there any other, like, just out of the box things that you guys are doing that just. You don't see too often in the recruiting space?

Michael Silverstein [00:34:32]:
I'll tell you what, for years and actually stopped doing it. It's when I flipped to sending these people, the investment firms to my whole database, like contact database of people that I want to develop business, not candidates. I would, for years, every month I would send my list of openings that I was working on and so not candidates that would say, hey, I'm working on these 15 jobs. And I'd put my most senior jobs and I'd send it to all the C suite Folks in the industry and people are like, didn't. Do you get in trouble for that? I was like, no. All these C level people would send me their resumes and would refer me to people and it turned into way more business than anything. And because it was a branding exercise again to demonstrate, hey, I actually have jobs, I'm not just sending you people. And so some of the best candidates and network effect I got was from sending out my openings to the whole industry and people like, which it was really probably pretty easy to figure out who those companies were.

Michael Silverstein [00:35:26]:
But my thing was, yeah, I work with good companies, I work with real companies, I'm working on real jobs. And the complaint, you know, your complaints and recruiters make shit up and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, no man, this is what I'm working on. Call me. And so I end up having to stop sending it. I made a decision to stop sending because I would literally send that email and it would, it would book my calendar solid for three weeks with senior executives every time I would send it. And so we made a decision to, to pair that back and then alternatively start sending our top people to the investment firms.

Benjamin Mena [00:35:55]:
Love that.

Michael Silverstein [00:35:56]:
That email still gets circulated. I haven't sent it in five years. I still get people sending me old versions of that email that like an exact from that got from somebody, that somebody, somebody's friend who's the C suite of somewhere. That email still has his travels. So dang.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:11]:
So you've also become like an investor or equity partner in a lot of startups now. Can you talk about that real quick?

Michael Silverstein [00:36:17]:
I really like the space I work in. As recruiters, we get to see under the hood in a zillion different companies. Right. We end up getting to know and make opinions on the leaders that we think are great and the ones we don't think are great. I was fortunate, you know, that I've been able to be an LP in a couple different, you know, a few different investment funds that invest in this space. And then, you know, even a few times where there's been companies where, you know, a CEO that I've worked with, that's great is starting a new business or start a new business. And I'm like, that is. It's a gamble because I don't know the finances.

Michael Silverstein [00:36:52]:
So I'm not the guy that can go crunch and look at the pro formas and the valuations. But I'm like, I would put my money on this person with this idea that they're going to go kill it. And so, yeah, I eat my own dog food. I've done some of that. And then, you know, as part of the networking group and things like that, I've been able to introduce young companies to investors and influential people in our network. And people have reached out to me and offered me equity positions as an advisor because they see so much value in that stuff. So I'm advising about, like, eight different companies right now that I'm an equity partner in all AI cool companies that have, for the most part, come to me.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:27]:
Have you ever thought about going higher up the food chain and into, like, mergers and acquisitions?

Michael Silverstein [00:37:32]:
I've helped a little bit of that stuff. I've helped companies get funded that I've introduced to, and I've helped turn on some companies that end up buying other companies. But again, for me, I'm not a banker. I'm not in that business. I don't know that stuff. But if I can introduce an investor to a company, like I introduce investors all the time to companies that they are looking at to buy again, I want the recruiting business. So when you go do that deal and you put a bunch of money in them and you merge a company, call me when you're ready to go build the team. And that, again, is a deposit in the investor bank account.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:03]:
All right, so I want to talk about your team now. Like, how big is your team at this very moment?

Michael Silverstein [00:38:08]:
I think my side of our group is around 18, between 18 and 20. And then my partner Norm, who's also in Pinnacle, who I've worked with forever, and I was fortunate to hire him 13, 14 years ago, he's got about 10 on his side. So our healthcare group in total is about 30, about 2/3 and a third.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:24]:
From a people's standpoint, Norm's an absolute rock star. How'd you find him?

Michael Silverstein [00:38:29]:
I was friends with his older sister. His older sister is an OB that delivered both my kids. And we went to high school together. And she called me. She goes, my brother's in college and he needs an internship. I was like, I can't pay him, because I don't. But I'll pay him commission if you close the deal. So Norm drove up.

Michael Silverstein [00:38:45]:
I don't know what year it was. 20, 10, 11. And in his little Toyota Smart Car with the mirror hanging off. And he worked for me for straight commission for a summer. And he outworked the two, three people that I had on my team that were full time getting paid. He had one speed, and I was like, I need this guy to come back and so was fortunate got him to come back. After he graduated, I think he turned Deloitte down to come work with me, which I think he actually wanted to work for Deloitte, but I think I was or maybe, but I lucked into it and he was my right hand guy for years. And then he broke off and has built, you know, a sister business to mine that's wildly successful.

Benjamin Mena [00:39:22]:
So like how do you find like these great recruiters like out there and how do you build them?

Michael Silverstein [00:39:29]:
I mean, it's taken a while. There are plenty of folks that have been here over the years that were good people. I've probably been able to refine that. It was hard early on because I was in my early mid-20s trying to hire people that were probably my age or sometimes older. And so, you know, you probably didn't necessarily want to work for young, you know, 20 something Mike. 20 something Mike was pretty focused on making money for Mike. And so my managerial leadership style has evolved a ton over the years in that it's hard to find good people when you got them. You got to take care of them and you got to treat them like family.

Michael Silverstein [00:40:05]:
And I learned that from the guy that hired me. He treated me like family. And my DRI is a family. And so really, you know, folks, I think we've made a big mind shift. We've talked about it as a company. We tried not to hire employees, we try to hire entrepreneurs. We don't pay a great base salary, you don't have great benefits. But like if you want to build a fricking amazing career, this is the place.

Michael Silverstein [00:40:27]:
If you want to have a really good job and you know this, it's a tough fricking job. There are easier jobs, but there's no better place to build a career. And that's really the people that gravitate towards that are the people that do well, the people that hammer you on your benefits and your salary and this and that. Like they come for a few years, they do their thing and then they move on. The people that I've had that have been here for years and years and years, I'm the, I'm the grandpappy to 10 partners in my healthcare practice that I started, which I'm very proud of, those are folks that see the value in building a career, not just a job.

Benjamin Mena [00:40:59]:
So when you say partners, like they've like growing into their own thing like.

Michael Silverstein [00:41:02]:
Entrepreneurship, they become equity partners in our company. So yeah, there's 10 equity partners in my practice that I, you know, started and they're not all recruiter. Just there's our head of research who became our head of research for the whole company. And my partner Casey, that's done all, was a recruiter, was a great recruiter and then decided that she didn't want to do recruiting anymore, but she just finds ways to make impact on the business, is a partner here. But people that are just very dedicated. Yeah. And so they're not all of them, most of them have not created their own space. They've built great desks and hit certain thresholds to become a partner here.

Michael Silverstein [00:41:39]:
But they're, they're monster contributors and they're kind of the, the people that help develop the other people. We take a very much. It takes a village approach around here. And my team is amazing in that they go out of their way to like help new people and get them up to speed and hold their hand and help them even though they're not necessarily paid for that. We're just a very close knit group.

Benjamin Mena [00:42:01]:
Awesome. Now I want to go back to you a little bit. Like you're absolutely crushing it. What is the daily habits that are keeping you at a high performing level?

Michael Silverstein [00:42:09]:
Just come to work every day. The thing that's probably the most important in this business is just discipline. I mean from, from 8:30 to 6, like I'm at work, I'm hustling. And these days I'm fortunate. I build a team that allows me, all the young family, to be able to take time off and go do fun things. But I'm back to back every day, all week long. Like my calendar next week is fully booked. Right.

Michael Silverstein [00:42:33]:
And so I make a point of like just not taking my foot off the gas, which is what I learned from my early days in 2008. Like, don't take your foot off the gas. And frankly I don't. I get nervous when I'm bored or when we're slow. Right. I would way rather be up to my eyeballs. The days go faster, things are happening all the time. And so I go out of my way a lot with these other things that we do here.

Michael Silverstein [00:42:56]:
To drive, to cultivate activity keep me pretty busy.

Benjamin Mena [00:43:00]:
So at full gas, 8 to 6, like what does your day structure actually look like?

Michael Silverstein [00:43:03]:
I'm talking, I talk to tons of like hiring managers and senior level candidates that get referred. I'm doing, you know, client calls. I'm kind of the primary rainmaker on our team. My job is to go get the business and I'm involved in closing all the business, you know, as needed. But I have my partner, Steve, who's our director of recruiting. I've got three full time research managers on my team. I have a chief of staff, I've got a client engagement manager that helps. Emily helps with my.

Michael Silverstein [00:43:28]:
She does my calendar. She helps organize and curate all this stuff on the front end that goes out to clients and back and forth. A part of our case. You does all our onboarding and training. So it's, it's a little company, man. People have roles that kind of modeled it really after our clients that have, you know, they got sales, they got implementation, they got people working on operations. Very much trying to get everybody working at top of license. Top of license for me is in the business development seat.

Michael Silverstein [00:43:53]:
It is not, you know, I'm not a great operator as far as managing to the numbers and things like that. I don't even know on an annual basis within a million dollars what my team does. I'd never know. I have never known. I'm so focused on what are we doing tomorrow and next month that I'm like, somebody else can count the beans. My job is to keep the funnel full. And it's always been like that. And so just putting in people in the seats that align to their skill set and interests, that's really been my focus.

Michael Silverstein [00:44:20]:
And that's how you get people bought in and, and working at their best capacity.

Benjamin Mena [00:44:26]:
So Rich Rosen wanted me to ask you how being friends with him has shaped your career.

Michael Silverstein [00:44:33]:
First of all, it gets me, you know, make sure I get all the Pinnacle conferences, because Rich and I get into a lot of shenanigans. But Rich, look, Rich is unbelievable in that he's a one man band and he's a machine man. Like, he does. That dude does, you know, he does three people's worth of stuff in addition to driving his wife and kids nuts. Right. The funny part about Rich is like, he's never seen the value in building the team or had the patience to do it. But he's got a motor that's. That's kind of like unparalleled.

Michael Silverstein [00:45:01]:
But I just love. Rich is genuine. He tells you what he's thinking, how he is. He's a wonderful guy. And he's always just. He's been at this a lot longer than I have. He just goes. And so his, his motor and his just fearlessness, frankly, is always.

Michael Silverstein [00:45:19]:
I find, you know, that's my favorite thing about Rich. In addition to he's always. He's up for whatever, for a good time. Like, I'm 39. Like, I go to these conferences. I need naps. Rich is like, banging on my door, like, where are we going? Let's go somewhere. I'm like, get the hell out of here, man.

Michael Silverstein [00:45:33]:
So, like, his energy's nuts. So it's off the charts.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:37]:
And he's gonna hate me for actually asking that.

Michael Silverstein [00:45:40]:
He'll trust me. I'll tell him that to his face.

Benjamin Mena [00:45:43]:
So, jumping over to the Quick Fire questions, but before we do that, I know we went deep on a few different topics. Is there anything else that you want to share or go deeper on that we didn't cover?

Michael Silverstein [00:45:51]:
Just treat people the way you would treat people that are important in your personal life and just be consistent. Consistent is the thing, right? Like, we lose more deals than we win in this space. And the only things that we can, we can't control our billings, we can't control the deals. We can't control. People are going to take jobs. We can control our inputs. So make sure that you're proud of your inputs every week. The deals are cyclical, the billings are cyclical.

Michael Silverstein [00:46:19]:
But if you want to put up great year after great year, it's about, what are you doing that you can control every day, which is relationship building and hustling and being hungry and being dedicated and just doing it every day. This is not a business. You can parachute in for a couple months and then take a couple months off. Like, you'll suck and you'll never get off the treadmill. But if you, if you are consistent and disciplined with your inputs, like, you will build them a magical career. Love it.

Benjamin Mena [00:46:48]:
These questions, they don't need to be quick answers. It's just like a separating, like into, like an actionable part of the podcast. You have somebody that walks into your office, it's their first day starting as a recruiter, never been a recruiter before. They sit down with you, see your success, and they're like, if you can give me one piece of advice to have a successful career like you do, what would you tell me again?

Michael Silverstein [00:47:09]:
It's the people business, man. We're asking, put in context what we do. We're asking companies to pay us five and sometimes six figures to hire a person. And we're asking people that we've never met, a lot of times go home, tell their spouse they're gonna quit their six figure job because Mike in Cleveland on the phone said I should. Like, that is wild. It's the toughest form of sales, in my opinion. And when you're first starting, you're in a people business and you don't know anybody and nobody knows you. So how fast can you change that? And you're not gonna change that with a bunch of marketing campaign.

Michael Silverstein [00:47:45]:
You're gonna change that by having real conversation with people. So how fast can you do that then?

Benjamin Mena [00:47:50]:
This next question is more for like recruiters that have been around. Like if you can give one piece of advice, recruiters out there to really just start hitting elite levels, what would that piece of advice be?

Michael Silverstein [00:47:59]:
Get off the transaction treadmill. I think if you're only focused on the deal in front of you, you're going to miss the forest through the trees so many times if you're not doing stuff to build them. If a new person can start recruiting tomorrow and that person can have as much relationship, as many real relationships as you do, if you've been doing it for 20 years, you're not doing it right. There should be a huge moat that you can build around your business by doing this over time. And so if you're not leveraging the time that you put in every day and there is no barrier to entry that like the new person that's got the new energy and the new hustle, if it's all about just how hard can you run, you're going to get run over by some 20 something that's just starting, right? But if it's about who do you know who trusts you, who calls you for advice, who values you as a trusted advisor, that new person can't touch you, right? And so figuring out ways to become a trusted advisor and a market master and not just a sprinter. If you're a sprinter, you're going to run out of gas. You're saying, well is now no longer Olympian and is getting fat somewhere, right? You can't be Usain bowl every day for an entire career unless you're Rich Rosen.

Benjamin Mena [00:49:18]:
Unless you're rich Rosem. What does the Pinnacle society mean to you?

Michael Silverstein [00:49:24]:
Pinnacle society, and I've been in it for 10 years, is the best consortium of unbelievable, unbelievably awesome people that happen to be really good at their job. I'm in Pinnacle society not necessarily because I come away with just crazy nuggets of game changing information every six months. It's because I can recharge my batteries by being around people that become close friends and that are frankly, we're all wired the same way. It's the most social fun. People that like give without asking in return, people that are open and people that are just like, they get it. Like sometimes when you're running a Search desk. Like, hey, you're managing people. You're dealing with clients.

Michael Silverstein [00:50:09]:
Like, it's hard for people to relate to that. Like, my wife, you know, she runs her own business. She still doesn't. It's hard for her to understand what I'm doing all day. I can sit down for 10 minutes walking into a Pinnacle conference, and, like, we get each other, we can relate to each other, we can be vulnerable with each other. And, like, that's what I look forward to is the people in the relationships. I learn something every time, too. But I recharge my battery because you can get burned on in this business so easily.

Michael Silverstein [00:50:35]:
And having people that you can kind of confide in and relate to and frankly commiserate with, like, that's something that's hard to find.

Benjamin Mena [00:50:43]:
Do you have a favorite tech tool that you love?

Michael Silverstein [00:50:45]:
I use this thing called Outlook365. And I don't know. You're talking the wrong guy around tech. My big move a few years back was, you know, I got an iPad and an Apple pencil instead of writing notebooks. So I've been paid for free for five years. But, you know, no, I. I don't know this guy. I mean, I, you know, cell phone, text.

Michael Silverstein [00:51:06]:
I mean, I'm not. My. My team is better at tech. I mean, I'm a phone. I'm a phone Jackie. I'm a text Jackie. Like, I'm fortunate I've been able to hire people to help me stay organized, but I'm at top of license when I'm on the phone and on Zoom.

Benjamin Mena [00:51:21]:
What is one of the biggest failures that you had to, like, work through in this business?

Michael Silverstein [00:51:26]:
And this is going to sound crazy. I've never. I've always been good at making deals. I think that the thing I had to learn was how to be a manager and a leader. You know, I was fortunate to have some early monetary success in my career and figure out. I had to figure out how to. How to help people build their career, not just have people help them build my career. And so I think, you know, I.

Michael Silverstein [00:51:51]:
Learning Norm, who I hired, Norman and I had a tough relationship over the years. Probably some of my biggest learnings came from, like, on the back of having some of that tough relationship and having to figure out how do I. You know, I'm all about building things. That's just sustainable, right? How do I. How do I adapt and become a leader that people want to work for? I think I've done that, but that's hard, man. And it takes. It takes you know, having some security, having some few bucks in the bank, having, you know, confidence and some maturity in the business when you're starting out. And if your business is not mature and you're, you're hunting every day, it is, it's like Maslow's hierarchy.

Michael Silverstein [00:52:29]:
When you don't know where your next meal is coming from, it's hard to really care about much else. I think my maturation in this business has come from how to delegate and elevate people, how to trust people, how to take my hands off the wheel and give people space and to kind of either sink or swim. And that didn't happen overnight.

Benjamin Mena [00:52:49]:
This is the last question. And you're part of the pinnacle society. You have a team that works with you. You probably get asked a lot of questions and, you know, I'm sure many of them are like around what's the secret to business development? What's the secret to networking? What's the secret to these deep relationships? Share the secret. But like all these questions that you've gotten over the years, do you ever just wonder, like, I wish they would just ask me this, what would be that question and what's the answer?

Michael Silverstein [00:53:18]:
I never take issue with the questions. I take issue with the reaction to the questions. I tell. We have a mentorship program like at our company, where a junior person gets filled up with a more experienced person. And generally my company is, they tend to preserve my mentoring for people that are kind of like the high potential folks. And my number one rule with people is if we talk about something and you ask some questions and we talk about something that you like, I go do this and then let's talk about it. Next time we talk, make sure you've done that. Lip service is my number one.

Michael Silverstein [00:53:57]:
No, no. And so don't tell me you were too busy. I told a mentee recently who is very interested in AI and drip campaigns who told me that cold calling isn't a good use of his time. And I told him, with all due respect, I said, your time is neither valuable nor scarce. And so what do you mean it's not a good use of your time? And I told him, if you're still in this business in 10 years, you're going to wish that you put the time in when you were younger because at some point your time is going to be scarce and hopefully it's going to be valuable. And so folks that are either not coachable or tell you they're going to do something and don't do it, those are the two Things that I, I have no tolerance for.

Benjamin Mena [00:54:46]:
Love that well, Mike, we've covered so many awesome things and I'm glad that we got to have this conversation. And like, when I asked about this month's podcast, literally, I think like, Rich answered back within 15 seconds of me sending that email. Mike, Mike, if anybody wants to follow you, how do they go about doing that?

Michael Silverstein [00:55:03]:
Just like on social or something? I don't know, Shoot me a link, drop me a line. I don't know. I talk to other recruiters all the time. I talk to my competitors. Like, some of my competitors become great friends. Like, even the recruiters I compete with, it's a big enough pie out there. There's room for everybody. And I have an appreciation for the folks that have been doing it, competing against me and doing it the right way for a long time.

Michael Silverstein [00:55:27]:
Like, good on them. I said, yeah, just drop me a LinkedIn invite or I don't know, I'm not really. I got off Twitter a year ago because I was getting. The politics were crushing my soul. So I got off that. But yeah, I spent all day on LinkedIn. So drive me a line.

Benjamin Mena [00:55:43]:
Awesome. And before I let you go, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?

Michael Silverstein [00:55:47]:
It's a great business. This is the best business. I will do this for my career. I'm so lucky to find this business. It is also the hardest business. I've never been bored in 17 years. I get beat up every day at least once, sometimes more. There are low, some low lows, but they're higher highs.

Michael Silverstein [00:56:07]:
But recruiters are. Recruiters are rare breed, man. The ones that do this and can do this for a long time, get to know other recruiters and friends in the industry. Like Pinnacle has been so valuable to me just by having that network because burnout, again, I mentioned it. Burnout's a real thing. You can get really, really, really burned out in this business. And having friends that know what you're doing and going through on a day to day that you can call and use the soundboard and get a perspective from is invaluable. It will give you longevity.

Michael Silverstein [00:56:35]:
It'll keep you having energy. So. But I appreciate you very much, Mike.

Benjamin Mena [00:56:40]:
This has been awesome for the listeners. He literally laid out how he has built his book of business, his career trajectory, the things that he's doing with his business. But like, you're doing stuff that I have not seen other recruiters doing. But you found a way to absolutely leverage your time and make it compound over and over again. So definitely. Thank you for breaking it down. And for the listeners, I want you guys to keep crushing it.

Michael Silverstein [00:57:02]:
Thank you brother. Great to see you. Good luck living abroad and eating all that fancy French food.

Benjamin Mena [00:57:10]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:57:31]:
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Benjamin Mena [00:58:09]:
Don't miss the future of recruitment. Get started with Atlas today and unlock your exclusive listener offer at recruitment recruit with atlas.com thanks for listening to this episode of the Elite Recruiter Podcast with Benjamin Mena. If you enjoyed, hit, subscribe and leave a rating.