The Notorious PhD: Dr. Todd Boyd

Jeff: 0:54

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the culture, episode 152. We're still celebrating Black History Month and we have a very special guest today to help us continue to do that. This gentleman needs no introduction. He is a professor of cinema and media studies. He is a renowned speaker, an in-demand television commentator, a critically acclaimed author. His new book actually just came out. I got my copy Rappers Deluxe how Hip Hop Made the World. I'll put that up on the screen so everybody can see and make sure you all go cop that. And he's written what Seven books. Now he's the one and only hip hop professor at the University of Southern California. He is known as, or they call him the notorious PhD, the incomparable Dr Todd Boyd. Thank you for coming on, brother. How can I get an autograph copy? How can I send this to you and get this autograph? Man when you at? Man, this book is beautiful. Where you at you, in New York, new Jersey.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 2:17

Man we'll have to figure something out Next time. I'm out that way.

Jeff: 2:23

This book is beautiful man.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 2:24

Thank you Like everything about it.

Jeff: 2:26

I'm ready to dive into it, thank you, thank you, yeah, but let's get going. Man, can you introduce yourself to an audience? You need no introduction, but just give us a brief summary to our listeners.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 2:39

Dr Todd Boyd, sometimes known as notorious PhD. This is actually my eighth book and, you know, dropped a couple weeks back and we out here making the rounds trying to promote it so that everybody knows it's available and encouraging people to cop and check it out and, you know, get into what I tried to put down in the book.

Jeff: 3:07

Yeah, and I mean, I think this book and yourself as a guest, is like the physical embodiment of you. Know what this podcast is because you know you represent the culture and the things you talk about is the same things that we talk about on this podcast the culture, the genre, hip hop, you know racism, a little bit of sports and we try to tie it all together. Tell us a little bit about you. Know what made you write this book? I know you've been writing it for a few years now.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 3:35

I mean, I've been telling people, you know, as I'm doing the rounds promoting it. I've been telling people that I actually started writing this book when I was nine years old. I just didn't, I just didn't realize it. You know, I was nine years old, a year, cool Herc through the legendary party that we identified as the beginning of hip hop, and you know the images from that era the music, film, sports, overall culture and everything after. It was with me, you know, and has been with me all these years. I mean, I actually started writing it back in, I think, 2021. The year gets fuzzy, but you know, I think the thing that's important is, you know, we've been talking about 50 years of hip hop and you know, 50 years is a long time. That's not a trend or a fad. You don't have 50 year trends or 50 year fads when you're around for 50 years. That's, that's substantial. And I feel like, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, I couldn't have written this book. I needed everything to transpire and play out the way it has in order to write it. So you know, here we are. I mean, maybe year 51 now, but you know, even beyond that, when I started writing a book, I wasn't necessarily thinking about 50 years. At some point in the process. I think I realized it would kind of coincide with that. But the story of hip hop is one that's unfolded from the 70s and 80s, 90s and we cover all this in the book from the beginning, you know, to the present, and try and give you the fact that this is half a century. You know this is, this is half a century and there's a lot of substance there and I want people to come away from it recognizing this is epic and you need to understand those 50 years to understand how epic it really is.

Jeff: 5:39

Yeah for sure, no doubt. I mean we're going to jump around. We got a lot of topics to discuss. You know, talking about 50 years of hip hop, what can you tell us about? You know where the culture is going when considering where it came from. You know, you created the academic study of hip hop. Others teach hip hop and KRS.1 is the first person that comes to mind because I know he teaches it in universities and so forth. But you're, you're, you're the, you're the first one, correct? Yeah, as?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 6:10

far as I know. I mean, I think you know what I often say about this is you know I come from the culture. You know there may be other people who by this time are doing their thing, but I'm the first one to come out of the culture. You know right. And you know I was MCing back when MCs were expected to. You know, get the crowd hype. I'm an OG in this, you know. So I'm a few years before Rock Him start bringing the poetry to the bars. So I don't have bars for you like that.

Jeff: 6:54

But I'm about to say you're going to give us a couple bars or 16.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 6:57

Now I ain't got them kind of bars for you, because I'm actually before that time, but I have the most respect for it. But you know everything I talk about in the book. I mean particularly in the early chapters. The book is broken up into five chapters, starting with the 70s, ending with the 2010s and beyond to where we are now. But you know everything I talk about in the book. I lived it, I experienced it, I'm familiar with it, I know about it and I was doing this, you know, 20 years before I became a professor, before I finished graduate school, got my PhD and started, you know, doing my thing USC School of Cinematic Arts dealing with popular culture. You know film, music, television, sports, fashion, art, all that. So what I give you in the book is personal, it's also professional and I think that's what makes it unique is, you know, back in the early 90s, when I started at USC, right after the LA riots, people were looking at me crazy. You know, when I was talking about hip hop in a college class, you know people looking at me real funny. Now it's different. You know, 30 years later, people can appreciate it in ways that they couldn't back then. So you know, for me, it was all about what I had lived, but also what I studied, what I researched, what I observed, what I wrote about, and hitting it at those two levels, as I say, I think, is what makes it unique, because it's personal, but it's also professional, and you don't find too many people, if any, who have come about it, and certainly not before I was doing it back then.

Jeff: 8:44

Yeah, I mean I'm what the these I wouldn't say the younger kids would call an old head. You know my playlist is going to have mostly 80s and 90s rap and stuff like that. So I wanted to ask you how has the genre changed from its inception in the 70s to what it is now, and has it changed for the better in your opinion?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 9:03

I mean, I think it has changed substantially. You know, for the 70s, if you think about it and this is what I talk about in the book for much of the 70s, unless you were, you know, in the Bronx or in Queens, or unless you were on the scene, you didn't hear the music. You had to be there and participate in it. But then, you know, once the music is available on the radio, you can hear it anywhere. And then later, when videos, you know, start to blow up, you can see it. And so you know, I think that's a big difference. You know, I remember the first time I heard rappers delight. Then I heard Curtis blow. You know I was in high school when this music came out. Like you know, everybody I knew was digging rappers delight and I was on Kurt Blow and I liked Christmas rapping better than I did the breaks, you know. And then you know when Sugar Hill came back with Apache and Sequence, I mean I remember all this like vividly before we get to Bambata. And you know what I'm saying. Master Flash, you know DMC I'm in college by this point. So you know I've been there since before it started, and I remember particularly everybody was getting off on. You know Michael Jackson and Prince. You know early nineties and I'm trying to listen to DMC, you know. So you know, thinking about it from that perspective and having observed it, I mean, as I mentioned, rock Kim, you know Rock Kim came with the poetry. You know, cat like Big Daddy Kane, nwa, ice Cube, you know my God, chuck D and Public Enemy. So you know, I mean, if you ask me what I'm putting on my list, a lot of it's going to come from that era. But you know about the nineties, everything blew up. You know Big and Pock and Nas and Wu Tang, jay-z, I mean Puff, I mean you know Outkast, I mean you know, just every decade you got these new artists who were doing their thing and kind of building on what came before it. And then you know, you get up to the present and I'm like you know, I listened to a lot of these young cats and can appreciate what they're doing. You know I respect it.

Jeff: 11:40

I can't put a finger on what to call this era because you know it started off with a party rap and hyping up the crowd and hyping up your DJ. Then it went to more lyrical with rock, eminem, then it went to social commentary and then it went to the gangster rap, which was an offshoot of the social commentary. Then we have the 90s. It was back to lyrical and storytelling. But now I don't know what to call this without without you know, without dissing it, without insulting it, you know, without calling it mumble rap, I don't know what to call this era. I guess this is the vibe era. That's what the young kids would call it.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 12:16

I mean, you know I, you know I try to be tolerant. I think it's the word I would use. What I recognize is that my age? Now, you know, I'm not. I'm not the target audience, so I don't want to you know. I don't want to dismiss what is intended for somebody else, but as a long time participant and observer of the culture, I mean, you know, I hear cat like Drake. I hear cat like J Cole. I mean J Cole's got bars, whatever era he's in. It's like, in a lot of ways it's kind of like the NBA. You know, if you could hoop, you could hoop and you know you might be part of one era or another, but a great hooper can fit in any era and they had the ability to adapt to the circumstances of that era. So you know, I don't know what people are doing now. Specifically, I feel like a lot of what happened before. Like I say in the book, you know, when you get to the fourth chapter of the book and you're talking about the 2000s, hip hop helped elect a president. You know I mean Obama's very much part of what hip hop and its impact you know had on America. And when you do that, like what else is there to do after? You know it's like we helped elect a president, you know. So now you have Kendrick Lamar winning a Pulitzer Prize, nas performing with the National Symphony Orchestra at the Kennedy Center, you know JM Beyoncé and a Tiffany's commercial with a Basquiat. You know Swiss Beats and Alicia Keys with their art collection. You know people are talking about buying paintings as opposed to buying cars and sneakers, so it's like whatever's going on now is cool. Nas with his investments, yeah, yeah, I mean we could list. There's a whole long list of things we could mention of how, you know, the game, like Big said, went from actually to classy, like where we are now is like so much further than where we started. And so I feel, like this younger generation, it's time for them to like do their thing, but they have a great foundation from which to do it. I'm from the era when the foundation was being built, so it's a different perspective.

Jeff: 14:37

Yeah, I wanted to read a quote that you gave to the publication, the rap regarding your book, where you said this book is about the culture. The music is part of. The culture, is the frame that you sort of see everything through, but it's also movies, fashion, language, politics, sports and art. I was interested in all these connections beyond the music and I'm glad you mentioned the NBA because I wanted to tell we just had the All Star Weekend that just passed, and it wasn't recently, it was a couple of years ago. You had mentioned on the Rich Eisen show the importance of MJ and speaking of Michael Jordan in his documentary speaking about. He spoke about the George Floyd incident, and we all know that Jordan never really spoke on social issues ever, and so I wanted to ask you how important is it for for some of these athletes, especially black athletes, to speak out about social and cultural issues? Cause I feel like LeBron right now for this era, he's that guy that speaks up. When we was coming up, we didn't have a guy like that, I mean I look at it in terms of generation, I mean Jordan.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 15:42

I mean Jordan's a year older than me. You know, we were in college at the same time and I think for a lot of people back then, I mean Jordan was in a unique position. But you know, I think the thinking at the time was, you know, if you look at it, you sort of pull back. You know you have Muhammad Ali and John Carlos and Tommy Smith. You have that generation. Michael Jordan represents a different generation and LeBron represents a different generation. From that, and I think we are, we are all products of our generation. In a way. The thinking at the time, you know, when Michael was in the mix, was don't do anything that's gonna interfere with your bag, so to speak.

Anthony: 16:24

Right, right, you wanna sell them sneakers.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 16:26

Yeah, and you know I don't know if that really aged well and I think even he realizes it when it comes up now. You know he even says in the last dance, you know I was selfish and I recognize I was selfish. I think this is what he said. I think he recognizes now, maybe at the time that made sense but it doesn't age well and perhaps if, given the opportunity for, you know, redo, he might have approached it differently or maybe not, but you're not gonna get no redo. So this is why we talk about it. I think in that generation the thing was, as I say, like do what you can to get your bag. Lebron's part of a different generation, you know Michael got a bag. I mean the generation before us you know you're talking Kareem, dr J was altogether different. I mean you know it hadn't been that long that the game had been integrated, relatively speaking. So the further you get away from that, I think, the more freedom you have. And LeBron and LeBron's generation is in a position where they have stood out and spoken up and I mean go back to the bubble. You know, during COVID and everything you know, there were guys who wanted to lead a bubble to go and like, participate in those George Floyd protests. So I have a great deal of respect, you know, for what LeBron is doing. Honestly, I think Mike might've got a bad rap. I can understand it from a generational perspective. I just think you know, sometimes you say things in a moment and you have no idea how they're gonna age. And that statement about Republicans by Nikes, too, didn't age well. But you know, a lot of people at the time felt the same way that he did. They just didn't have the resources.

Jeff: 18:20

And since we're in the topic of sneakers, you know Trump dropped his new, never surrendered, but I call them the Air Force Trumps. And there's a Fox News contributor yeah, fox News, a gentleman by the name of Raymond Arroyo, and I wanna get into the topic of racism and you let me know, both of y'all, let me know if this is racist Because he goes. His exact comment was this is connecting with black America because they love sneakers. He said this is a big deal, certainly in the inner city. So when you have Trump roll out his sneaker line, they're like wait a minute, this is cool. He's reaching them on a level that defies and is above politics. The culture always trumps politics and Trump understands culture like no politician I've ever seen. So when I first read that, I was like all right, this sounds a little racist.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 19:14

It's certainly ignorant, very ignorant. I mean, you know, I kept I saw on social media earlier today. I saw several people post that, several people and I honestly just kept laughing because when I saw the shoes, I think maybe the day before I kept thinking Tom Ford wants his tee back. If you look at him you can see where that like I ain't even thinking that Graphic design for that tee comes from. Yep, I mean, look, you know, I'm a sneakerhead, I'm an OG sneakerhead. I've been doing this since 74. So, yeah, I like sneakers and I know a lot of other people that like sneakers. I don't think that's necessarily bad, but you can't just come up with any kind of you know, courtyards sneaker and think that Buy or vote. Yeah, yeah, like I just kept looking at the shoe, I'm like ain't nobody rocking these? You know? I mean maybe if the design on the sneakers was cool, people might rock them. But you know, people in the sneakerhead community are can be harsh critics. They don't like every sneaker that comes out. So it's like not just about you know, he's got a sneaker. Is your sneaker cool and is it something that somebody's gonna wear? But I think what dude was saying was really ignorant, because you know black people, people in the inner city, they like sneakers and you know Trump did this. So now Trump's going to appeal to them. I mean that just indicates that he knows nothing about the culture and he's basing his opinion on a stereotype and he's uninformed, I mean. And I'm sure if we could see what he had on his feet when he said that, that he had trash on his feet.

Jeff: 21:13

So you know, I mean I wouldn't listen to somebody like that because clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about and even then the people that may or may not have that mentality are probably not even old enough to vote Right, the people that are gonna vote. I want to know what your policies are. How can you help my community?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 21:30

And also you know, okay, even if your sneakers were cool, you're gonna vote for somebody because their sneakers are cool. Voting and cool sneakers are two different things. You know, and if that's all it's gonna take to get somebody to vote for you, then you know the election would have been decided a long time ago. It's much deeper than that. That's why I keep saying the statement is ignorant and honestly, it's so ignorant. I don't really need to spend that much time explaining how ignorant it really is.

Jeff: 22:05

Fact. So, staying on racist topics, I have up here this I don't know if any of you saw this. I call it the racist permission slip out of Miami-Dade County Public Schools and it says students will participate and listen to a book written by an African American and the parent has to sign. This is an actual permission slip. The parent has to sign to allow their student to listen to a book written by a black man.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 22:36

Yeah, I saw this. I saw this the other day.

Jeff: 22:40

And right away I tweeted something out. I said you know, this is the racism that's going on in 2024 still.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 22:47

Yeah, you, you have to get a form. You have to get a form signed In order to listen to a black speaker. I Mean this was so ridiculous. When I saw it I just kept thinking there's got to be more to the story. Maybe they're in. But I just kept thinking this is just too dumb. But it is Florida and you know the governor of Florida is, you know he's on one, so Maybe it is as simple as it looks. But I mean the question is okay, you have to sign a piece of paper in order for your kid to hear a black speaker. All right, that makes no sense to me.

Anthony: 23:33

See and I pose these.

Jeff: 23:34

I pulled go ahead.

Anthony: 23:35

Oh, love Jeff. We had this conversation all the time. You also asked me every time I was having a second, like it's just racist, and I always try to explain to you. You're confusing racism with I Guess you can say stupidity like ignorance. We're being cute about it, like cuz, yeah, but like okay, you know how you talk about the Trump Seekers. A few moments ago you ever seen above the rim.

Jeff: 24:01

Yes, I love that movie. They were actually giving it a couple days, so right.

Anthony: 24:04

So is a part when Marlon Wayne plays boogaloo. He comes out to the court with that gold jumpsuit trying to hoop Like that's the things remind me of. Like they was clowning them wearing that. If you're not going to see anybody in the streets wearing no sneakers ever, like dr Boyd said that there's no swag to them, like you do some ghosts on something, american flag and a Tina like oh man, this is really gonna capitalize on a black fan base. No, it's not how it works. You're even the person who spoke up after it. He's just preaching to his audience. He's not talking to black people, so I'm not gonna waste my energy getting offended by it's like. I know you're not talking about me. You're speaking to a particular base that's going to black. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Black people like sneakers. That means they like sneakers. They're like Trump. If they like Trump, they'll vote for him. It's not that kind of simple through line from one point to another, but they believe so. Even with this, you're saying that I need a permission slip to hear the words of a black person. If you say it out loud, you realize how dumb it sounds. Black, okay. What is Distinctive about this person voice from that person voice because they're speaking. How do you know that they're black, like it? There's no reflection of it at all. But the thing is a good idea and the fact that he are Giving this to children and like you're sending it to parents and there's no pushback from the parents, like this, is a bad idea. Like they're parents signing off on it. It speaks to a deeper problem that's systemic in our society. Not just this, but again it's Florida and talking about Trump, he's in Mar-a-Lago, so all kind of like leaks together again. Don't confuse racism with stupidity. It they're very close cousins, but it ain't that. This is just dumb.

Jeff: 26:03

Amen. But I bring up racism because I wanted to pose the question has racism played a role, whether big or small, and helping hip-hop grow? You know, you go back to the 90s when David Stern, from an NBA, wanted to put the dress code because guys like Island Iverson you know we're rocking too much gold or baggy pants and the do rags and whatever it was, and you know they were considered dogs and whatever, the gangsters and whatever. So he wanted them to be. You know, more clean-cut and Wear a suit while you're sitting on the bench and whatever. And you know these. I'm not, I'm not saying he was racist, but I'm saying this this stuff causes a backlash and a reaction, and a reaction that you know makes change ultimately. So do you. I think that racism has had any type of effect in helping hip-hop grow.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 26:54

I mean, you know, I think that example of the dress code is interesting because If you watch an NBA game now, you know you're gonna watch people walking into the arena and they're gonna be talking about their fit. You know, I mean, on social media, every game now, they're gonna be pictures of people in their fit, which is kind of funny to me because back, you know, in the early 2000s, cats were rocking throwback jerseys and everything was like really oversized baggy jeans. You know, 8x white tees and that whole era, you know, and everything was was super baggy. And that's when. That's when the dress code was proposed. I mean, you know, I like fashion. So, honestly, I never really had that much of a problem with the dress code, because you're basically trying to say Clean up your act. You're on television, we want a certain standard and I think you know there are jobs throughout society that have dress codes. So I didn't necessarily think that was racist. It was clearly intended to, you know, help sort of Get rid of a certain look, and that look was directly associated with hip-hop. But, as I say, if you look at it now, everybody's trying to rap. You know, everybody's trying to show off their fit. And if you go back to the era before that. I mean, we were talking about Jordan earlier, but you know, I remember when Isaiah and Magic and Michael Jordan and Pat Riley were on the cover of GQ magazine Grand Hill, you know they were clean, like Back in that era. I phrased it with the suits yeah, clyde, exactly Clyde, phrasing with that 70s flair, you know, drj, you know with the fro, I mean. So you know, the styles change and the players, I think you know, represent their era. But that piece of it in and of itself, I didn't really have a issue with Because I understood what he was trying to do and I think what we see now kind of affirms that point, because everybody now is, you know, pj Tucker is, like, you know, shagilius Alexander, so so many guys now want to be known for their fit Kuzma, um. So it's just kind of interesting how that played out.

Jeff: 29:20

Yeah, before I move on from this, I wanted to touch on this topic. Me and aunt have this argument all the time. He's gonna laugh when I mentioned it.

Anthony: 29:28

I got start this shit.

Jeff: 29:31

Because I wanted to ask you your thoughts on Eminem and, as he a valued member or just A guest, somebody like Lord Jamar would have you Believe go ahead, doctor culture.

Anthony: 29:48

You got it, you got it back yeah and I'm a prefix.

Jeff: 29:50

I'm gonna tell you where this stems from. Okay, dr Boy, this stems from every time I ask somebody of color To give me their top five. Never, a hundred percent of the time. They never have Eminem in. So I pose the question to aunt why is that? Is it a? Is it a cultural thing? Is it? Is it a black and white thing? You know what I mean? I've always felt like he deserves to be mentioned among the grace, but from my perspective and from from my, from what I've seen, from my experience, black people are hesitant to mention him and that and that list. I Mean.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 30:32

I can't speak on why People leave him off their top five list. If you, you know, if you ask people to top five, they're giving you their top five right and maybe there's a particular reason why they mentioned some people and not others. But if you only limited it, if it's, I'm sorry. If it's limited only to five people, there's gonna be a lot of people that left that are left off. I Mean, you know, I look at it from a historical standpoint. You know, for a long time we had White artists Appropriate in black culture and taking credit for it, and perhaps the big, the biggest example of this would be somebody like Elvis Presley. When you get to, hip-hop is different because you know Elvis and you know his manager, tom Parker. They could appropriate, I think, the cat's names, roy Holliday. If you go looking him up and if you listen to him, you know it's obvious how Elvis is straight bit my man style and a lot of people don't even know this cat is. And Elvis is, you know, considered an icon. So you could just go and like, really you know, steal the culture and turn around and make people think it was yours. You could completely appropriate it and exploit it and get away with it. There was nothing to stop him from doing that. But when you get up to the era of Eminem, I mean, what I think is always interesting is Eminem wouldn't have a career if it wasn't for dr Dre he needed. Dre's cosign like he needed. You know Dre, he needed somebody who had credibility in hip-hop Already to cosign him. And remember, before Eminem came out, most people when they thought about a white rapper, thought about vanilla ice, and vanilla ice was wack and everybody Recognized he was wack. So Eminem had to prove to people that he wasn't there just because he was white, like. So when you listen to Eminem, I mean the dude can rap, like clearly he's got skills. There's no debating that. I think what happened at the time know, what I noticed Was a lot of radio stations that weren't playing Hip-hop. All of a sudden they started playing Eminem. Now why weren't you playing this music before? But now that you have, you know, eminem, you want to play his music and I think a lot of other people started saying he's the greatest rapper ever During that time. And I'm like he can rap. He's not the greatest, he can rap. It's just like the NBA. There's been a lot of great players in the NBA. It's not just one or two, there's been a lot over a long period of time. It's been a lot of great MCs, it's not just one or two. So where somebody places him on their list, I think that's personal To me. I think Eminem Can rap. My issue has always been what is he rapping about? Like so, chuck, you know Chuck D. He's been a great rapper. Like so, chuck, you know Chuck D has his line. I don't rhyme for the sake of riddling. When I hear him what I hear somebody rhyming for the sake of riddling, that's cool. But the MCs that I have always appreciated there was more depth to it. Like, eminem is really clever and, I think, very good at what he does and he's always been cool. I feel like a lot of people outside of him have tried to use him to make points. He didn't do it, but people were using him in his career, because he was white, to try and say things that he himself wasn't saying. As an MC. I think he's cool. Is he in my top five? No, is he in my top 10? No doesn't mean he's not a good MC, but I just have different standards when I think about the great MCs and certainly he's had some great records, but I'm just not willing to say he's the greatest ever.

Jeff: 34:38

That's fair. I'm gonna start looking at it differently now.

Anthony: 34:41

Oh, it took him to tell you look at a different. Been telling you for years.

Jeff: 34:46

On his answer. You just told me like yeah, I don't fuck with his music.

Anthony: 34:49

It's not okay. I love him. Some fathers, it's not Not fucking with his music. Again, he can rap for a second rap he's extremely good at it. But when he does it it annoys me. Like he's a rap-a-drap dude right like the whole song rap god. Like I'm glad that you can rap really fast and I can kind of sort of understand you. But I'm like, yeah, busted can do the same thing. Great, you're not impressed, I'm he's. He's like he's a bee at everything. He doesn't excel at one thing. He's just really good at putting words together. That's great. Is he gonna be in my top five? No, I'm sorry to tell you that. No, but am I gonna say, in a sense of Influencing hip-hop, he'll probably be in that, in that level, because without Eminem Drey doesn't break into those markets. Without Eminem you're not getting that halftime Super Bowl show. You need that presence for him to finally crack that glass ceiling. Like hip-hop has always grown slowly, like you always like. This quote the, the two pop line, the, the growth of roof and concrete. As much as they have tried to kill hip-hop by MTV not playing the videos by saying that they're bad influence, that they're destructive to society and children, misogynistic lyric, violence and everything else at the great. At this point, 50 years later, it's an influence and pop, art, music, fashion, culture. We've Almost been like an offshoot of culture and now we've come like completely ingrained inside of it. You cannot tell, from this point forward, the the culture of this country without it. We've touched every single branch, every tree that falls from it. What, what makes things fly, what those fashion designs? Why they want to mess with hip-hop artists? Because we carry the culture. We're the people that people want to watch and see that they want to look like and act like and be like. Before they weren't fucking with us like the hope, like like we're from the East Coast. Timberland was a construction boot. You just walk around in them, heavy-ass boots, right, we made them popular. Now they're coming out with different styles and colors and everything I said cuz we wanted it. And then those other kids from you know those nice super neighborhoods, they're walking around with Timberland, they're wearing fittings, they're doing the stuff that we did. That's why it matters and without Eminem, like that part, we can never quite grasp that audience. But once we did rocket shot through the roof, because now we're in places that we're never going to be like Eminem's on stage with dr Dre at the Super Bowl he's doing you know, you know MTV, musical worlds and stuff like that. It's not the fact that he's His rapping and anything that I don't care about that. I care about the fact that you kind of needed that point to. It's like an inflection point. At that point it becomes something else completely different, because remember that Drates record label wasn't really popping like that. He needed him to kind of keep going. He leaves that throw. He wants to try something new. The firm flops his sub-flop. It just doesn't work. He finds his kid finds in everything skyrockets from there. So his rapping ability great. But what he did in Putting us in rooms that we wouldn't think it would generally be mad, as more than me.

Jeff: 38:16

All right. So before we move on once and for all, is he hip-hop or is he just a guest?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 38:21

I mean, I think he's hip-hop. I think the thing is, you know, it's sort of like this you know, if you watch the, if you watch the, NFL. Look at the success the New England Patriots have had over the last what 20 years. Right before Brady left and now Bella checks gone and I say this jokingly, but I'm serious like the Patriots brought white football players back in the mix. Mmm, okay, look at a cat like Julian Edelman. You weren't talking about white ride receivers. You know, in the 90s, I mean you know the paper tight ends the grunt, like you know, always with quarterbacks. But what I'm saying is, like you know, they started a whole thing. So now you've got Cooper cup right. Who did Eminem inspire? Like, why is there not a whole long line of white rappers since Eminem? I mean, there's a couple, there's a couple, right, but it's not like a whole community of white rappers that emerged after Eminem success.

Jeff: 39:37

I think he's influenced more black rappers than white rappers.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 39:39

to be honest, I would agree what I'm saying is, if Eminem is a singular figure, right, he didn't create a whole group of like dope white MCs there's been a few, but his success is his success. We could talk about other rappers and their influence, and we can draw a straight line to all the people they Influenced and put in the game, or people who tried to be like them, or whatever. Eminem is a white guy in a black genre, and because of that, he's gonna automatically get attention, and I think he's very good at what he does. Considering, I think, though, in terms of moving the culture, in terms of inspiring the culture, in terms of changing the culture, what's different about hip-hop if Eminem doesn't exist? What changes about hip-hop if he doesn't exist? I mean, I think he's great in that sense, but you know, at the end of the day, we're applauding this dude because he's a very, very good rapper. When they decided to start making movies about hip-hop artists, who was the first cat they made a movie about? They made eight mile. Does that mean that Eminem is more important than big? Does that mean Eminem is more important than pop just because he got the first movie made about him? No, that's the fact that we live in white culture and the gatekeepers Recognize that there was an audience of people that they were willing to pitch a movie to About Eminem that you know big and pop that came later. They might even think of that. That's buried in American history that it just happened with Eminem. That's before we got to Eminem. Why? Because hip-hop is black, so in that sense Eminem is the white guy in black culture. But when the Larger culture decided to pay attention, it's like we know what to do with this guy. We know how to make money off of him, we know how to Identify him and his audience and previously that hadn't existed in hip-hop. That doesn't mean he's more important than the legends of hip-hop, the pioneers of hip-hop who we traditionally celebrate.

Jeff: 42:08

I'm gonna get off this now. I know that you you've been a part of a lot of different documentary sports, hip-hop documentaries. I want to ask you what's your favorite documentary or film that you worked on? Did you work on the Biggie movie, by the way?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 42:22

Which one? No, I did a biggie documentary. The biggie documentary All right did a biggie documentary, but this was back in like 2007-2008, so it was a while ago. It's called big it bigger than life.

Anthony: 42:35

If I'm not mistaken, dr Ford just had the funniest shit Because I because I always see you in documented especially comes like culture and sports and race, and I saw it in a Rick James documentary. He said how much he hates super freak and I was like, yeah, me too, like. And when he explained he said I could never quite explain. I said I hate this song but I don't know why things like you know what I was wanting to put on is the one to wipe you with jam into him like there we go. There's my answer. He's right. All of your games work. This is the one like oh my god, he makes so many great songs and someone y'all this. Is it super freak, this little basic ass on of all this talent of all of music he's made, that's.

Jeff: 43:18

that's the way that's just been sampled. That's just been sampled a lot in hip-hop though.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 43:22

That's right. I mean, you know that's ammo. Can't touch this and other examples too. Mm-hmm. I Mean you know I've been in, I've been, I've been a lot of documentaries of, of all the documentaries I've been in, you know the last dance I keep saying to people, the last dance, that's like my superhero movie, you know, because when the last dance came out it was at the beginning of, like COVID, the beginning of the pandemic, and you know everybody saw it because everybody was pretty much at the crib and if you think about it, you know back in the day people used to watch, you know, everything at the same time and the only thing that really exists like that now is the Super Bowl. You know that everybody watches it at the same time. We're streaming and everything. So because of COVID, people were watching the last dance and you know it was hugely popular and I had the first two episodes. I'm in the. I think the first episode I'm in is the third episode, but the first episode I have people you know, I know who are like are you watching this? Like of course I'm watching it, and they're like you should be in this, and I didn't even say anything. And then the third episode hit and so you know I'm in LA, I'm on West Coast time so it aired first on the East Coast and I go to Twitter and you know, my timeline on Twitter just blown up but it's not coming off for three more hours. You know, in LA and I had kind of forgotten to be honest with you and I'm like, oh, I must be in this episode because they didn't tell me before which episode I was in and so from that point forward, the rest of the series, what I would do is I would just go it was Twitter at the time I would just go to Twitter and see what people were saying on Twitter and then I would watch the actual episode later on that night. But you know, last Dance was a lot of fun. I've been in so many documentaries. They start to run together at a certain point, you know one of the things. I'll say that again, I'm sorry. The Wood yeah, I co-wrote and produced the Wood. I mean that was back in 99. So add that to the books and the documentaries. You know I did a few things here and there, you know. But the documentaries people know me from the documentaries because I've been in so many of them. Actually, you know, what I'm kind of focused on now is adapting the book Rappers Deluxe into a documentary series, because I wrote it with that in mind. I mean, you know documentaries are so popular now and to be able to tell the story of the book through a documentary would be very cool. So that's something I'm looking into now as well. Gonna start pitching it to some networks and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, you know I've been having conversations. You know it's hard out here in Hollywood trying to do it and I wanna do it right and there's a certain way I wanna do it. You know, because honestly, I've been in all these documentaries and you know I appreciate people who reach out and wanna interview me. I appreciate that a great deal. But in some ways I feel like, you know, I remember when Snoop had the last meal and somebody asked him what the title meant and he goes. You know, people been eating off of me, Off of me, you know that's the last something you eat off of me. You know this is the last meal I gotta eat off myself, and so you know I mean much love. I'm very grateful, but I've been giving people all this flavor in these documentaries for all these years. I gotta do my own thing. You know it's time for me to transition and I'm gonna still do documentaries of people who have me. But what I'm trying to put together with the book and the documentary series associated with that, I'm gonna be much more prominent. I'm gonna be much more visible. I'm gonna be your on-screen host and guide as opposed to, you know, one amongst many. It's gonna be the doctor's perspective, and so that's what I'm trying to put together. And you know, if somebody's like down with that and they wanna finance that, then cool. But you know I'm not trying to do it in a way that you know it might have been done traditionally. I have a whole different approach that I've thought out, that I planned as I was writing a book. I wrote the book with a documentary series in mind. So hopefully, you know, that'll come to pass and in the process, you know we seeing what's out there and seeing what we can do in terms of, you know, bringing this to the people, and so you'll have the book and then hopefully, you know at some point you'll have a documentary series as well.

Jeff: 48:29

Yeah, I wanna ask you, of all the hats that you wear, you know, as a writer, as a public speaker and educator which is your favorite of all the hats that you wear?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 48:40

Wow, that's a good question.

Jeff: 48:41

Which one are you most passionate?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 48:42

about. I mean, you know, I am somebody who went to graduate school because I wanted a PhD, and the reason I wanted a PhD was because when I was a kid, I heard how people in the media talk about Dr J and Dr J didn't have no PhD.

Jeff: 49:04

He wasn't a good doctor.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 49:06

But when I was growing up in the 70s, you didn't necessarily find a black man being discussed with respect. They put a lot of respect on Dr J's name. So when I was a kid I remember saying I wanna be Dr B and I want people to put respect on my name the way they put respect on his. And so my idea was you know, do this PhD thing, become a professor at a prominent university, and that would be my base. And from that base, you know, I could write the wood, I could write books, I could appear in documentaries, I could consult, I could do all these things. And so, you know, I don't know if one is my favorite or another. I've been a professor for a long time. Obviously, I like to talk, I like being interviewed. You know, I like the freedom I have to kinda move through and connect with and participate in the culture, not just observe it but participate in it. And so, you know, at different times I like different aspects of it. I can change those hats with ease, you know. But I'm a creative person. I think a lot of people, when they think about professors, they have a misunderstanding. I'm not a teacher. I've never been a teacher. I'm a professor. There's a difference, but I like to describe myself and what I do. You know I'm a creative intellectual, that's how I describe it, and so being able to write books and do movies and make documentary appearances to me, you have to have all that coupled with, you know, being a professor and endowed chair at a major university. So it's really the combination, you know, of all that. You know we form like Voltron. You know what I'm saying. You bring all those pieces together and you know the sum it's Wu Tang reference. Yeah, yeah for sure. The sum bigger than its part. So that's kinda how I approach it. I guess all those hats are very comfortable. At various times I like wearing different hats, but I like having all those hats available to me. You know, that's what's really important.

Jeff: 51:27

I mean, we know the answer to this question, but it begs just to ask it Is it safe to say that hip-hop is your first love?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 51:37

In terms of culture. You mean, yeah, I mean I am hip hop. You know what I'm saying. I am hip hop, so that's, like you know, is loving yourself like are you your first love? Yeah, I love me some meat, you know. So, yeah, I love hip hop. You know I love jazz too, but nobody's really into jazz, no more. So I got a handful of friends I could talk to about it, but you know it's not popular Hip hop. That's who I am, I mean. So, yeah, I mean I couldn't do what I'm doing without hip hop and so it's definitely my first, second, third, fourth and fifth love. But I love a lot of things. I love movies, you know what I'm saying. I love fashion, I love art. You know I pay attention to politics, I mean. So again, it's like the previous question To me, hip hop ties all this together and that's really honestly what my book is about is about how all these different things tied together are hip hop. Like we know the music, but you know it's also sports, it's also I'm like, I'm really into contemporary art, Like it's also art, like you know it's also fashion, it's all all those things. So I guess, if we think about hip hop in the broadest sense. I would definitely say that's, that's a love.

Jeff: 53:10

Alright, before we wrap this up, if you don't mind, I got a couple of fan questions that were submitted. Certainly have one on X aka Twitter. Shout out to Stiley. So I got to the barbershop group chat Because he said, in reference to you, he said that his resume is so dope. I always loved his NWA commentary and how this music was designed to be gritty enough to make you squirm. I actually like that quote. But his question is up there. He says and thinking kind of broad here but how he fell in love with hip hop and where he sees it could evolve to next and maybe expand on how black music evolves so progressively and transcends in such amazing ways.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 53:52

Um, you know, I mean, I think when I was in high school and I heard rappers at Lux, it was like it was like somebody was speaking my language. You know, like imagine if you're in a foreign country and they don't speak English, and then all of a sudden, from across the way you hear somebody speak English, that's going to feel real significant to you. You know somebody speaks your language, like I'm not the only one here speaking this language. And so when I heard you know rappers light, you know all that early hip hop this is what I was saying to you earlier. You know, when I heard DMC is like that. Everybody I knew in college had thriller or 1999 or both. And you know I'm the kind of dude if everybody else is going right, I'm gonna go left. That's just who I am. So it's like, okay, you in the Prince of Michael, you know. But then DMC is like you know, it's not Michael Jackson and this is not thriller. So that's what I was repping, and I was repping it precisely because everybody else wasn't repping it. That's the era I come from, so falling in love with hip hop, you know from the time I first experienced it, which is when the first needle dropped. You know, but hip hop is to me like a continuation. I mentioned jazz. You know all the great. You know R&B, soul music from the 70s, you know bebop jazz before that, neo soul. I mean, I like great music. You know what I'm saying. And if it's great, if it's, you know something created by somebody's substantive, then you know I'll dig it and I'll vibe on it. So you know, I've been with hip hop from the very beginning, from the first time I heard it. And I think the evolution of hip hop and black music in general is because, you know, a standard was set a long time ago. I mean, duke Ellington, count Basie, louis Armstrong, these guys were operating at a very high level. You know Miles Davis tells stories about. You know, in his era, you know in the early days, like they would have like what we might now call open mic nights, and you know jazz musicians would get up and play their instrument and Miles said, if you got up on the bandstand and you were bullshitting, you get your ass kicked, like literally like dudes would like take you outside and whip your ass for wasting their time. I mean so you know we've had these standards for a very long time. And then you get to hip hop. It's like if you get on the mic and you whack, like you might have to answer for that. I mean, that's the culture, that's the tradition, and so anything that has that kind of competitive component and you know forces people to push creativity to the highest level. The results are often good and I appreciate that and celebrate it and promote it and write about it. And you know, hopefully we'll continue to see things operate at that level.

Jeff: 57:13

You mentioned Run DMC. Were you in the building by any chance for the hip hop 50 Yankee Stadium? Because I was there and they had me till two in the morning waiting for Run DMC to come out because they closed the show and I was there for eight hours. Was it cool? It was the best shit. I told Ann it was the best shit I've ever been to Bruh Brice. The doors opened up at six and we was there till two in the morning but everybody was there. It was the most diverse shit I had ever seen.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 57:42

I remember seeing all the pictures and everything videos on social media. Yeah, look at that, man.

Anthony: 57:48

Look, they were short on YouTube. I'm not saying up until two o'clock in the morning for nobody. I watched it all right there. I could rewind it and replay it. You could buy the tickets hitting Yankee Stadium or you want, for eight hours. That's a job shift. I ain't doing that, I just watched the replay. I saw everything you saw from the cover of my bedroom, so I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Jeff: 58:07

But good for you. And one last fan question Shout out to Shakir. For some reason I'm going back to this white rapper conversation. He wants to know in your opinion, is Action Bronson better than Eminem?

Dr. Todd Boyd: 58:22

I think Action Bronson is more of a character than a rapper. The chef, yeah, I mean he's a cool character. I mean, you know, I even give a cat like Jack Harlow some props, but I mean in terms of rhyming, I don't think any of them dudes can touch Eminem In terms of rhyming. No, so I'd go with. Eminem on that.

Jeff: 58:47

All right, and this is the grand finale. We always ask all our guests this oh, you always ask this. Why ask this there you go and since you're a hip hop and sports connoisseur, we're going to do it two parts your top five. We're going to start with your top five basketball players.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 59:05

Now we saying my, are we saying my top, my favorite players or the best of all time?

Jeff: 59:13

Yours, yours, in your opinion, the top five best players all around, best players of all time that are alive.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 59:20

Okay, order, and you want them in order, or you just want?

Jeff: 59:23

five. I mean if you can put them in order, but if not, then just five.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 59:28

Okay, I would say this is in no particular order. You could rank them. You could rank them how you choose. But what I often say when people ask me this about basketball is you know, different players played in different areas under different circumstances, so it's really hard to compare different rules to different rules. Yeah, that's what I mean when I say different circumstances. I mean you know, contemporary players don't have to worry about being in a hotel and going to get something to eat and they say we don't serve black people. You got a fact that at the end also a lot of the whole G's and to deal with that, you know they had second jobs. Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly. So I would say, as I say, this is not in order, but top five I would say Mike, bill, russell, kareem, will. Was that four? And magic? No, lebron, wow. Now let me, let me, let me put a, let me put a asterisk by LeBron. The only reason I won't say LeBron now is he's still playing Now. By the time he gets through playing, if you ask me that same question, then he'll be on the list, which means I'm going to have to drop somebody, but I'm not. The only reason I'm not saying LeBron now is we don't know how much more LeBron is going to accomplish before he's done. Right, none of us expected LeBron to be the leading score while he's still playing, because LeBron never had the reputation as a score, right, I mean, and now he's the leading score in history and he's still playing. So, no, this the LeBron is just that while he's still playing, I'm going to put him in reserve. But if we had the same conversation, once he retires, he will automatically be on the list, which means I'm going to have to drop somebody, and the person I'm going to drop is going to be will or magic, but for now, that's who. I'll go with those five.

Jeff: 1:01:46

And finally, your top five MCs of all time.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 1:01:50

Okay, so I have what I call. I call it the Godhead. Big J and Nas. That's the Godhead to me. Those three, the next two, I would say ice cube and Chuck D, and if you gave me a bonus, I throw in cats like Scarface and Big Daddy came. Is ice cube a West Coast bias thing? No, I mean, if you want to talk about like conscious, like serious, like political hip hop back in the day, I mean ice cube had bars man and it was substantive and the thing ice cube was saying, you know just, was deep and with the exception of Chuck D, nobody else was really coming with that political depth the way ice cube was. So that's why you know we're up ice cube. I mean, if we're talking about style, like I got to get Snoop props, the thing is is just so many, so many great rappers like you know, when, ever, when you do that, you're going to leave people off. You know who are cool. But big J and Nas, that's, that's, those are my like top three dudes Again had a monster right there. Yeah, order that as you choose. And then give me Scarface and Kane and Chuck D and cube and I mean I like J Cole and Drake a lot Now. I like woo Back in the day. I like brand new being. You know. I mean, it's been so many great MCs that it feels almost like you slighting somebody when you come up with a list, because inevitably you leave somebody off and people think you don't like them. It's not that it's just there's only enough room on the list for so many people, but those are some of the names that have always meant a whole lot to me and whose music I still listen to to this day.

Anthony: 1:03:47

Yeah, it just becomes like basketball. You have your list, but then you got to kind of break it down, like who are the best shooters of all time, who are the best dunkers of all time, who's the most creative, who got the best handle? Like hip hop the same way. Like you got certain guys at the top, but there's certain people who do certain things in an extreme way, like Cary Irvin's not going to be anybody's top 100, but a ballhandler he might be one or two. It's kind of how you look at it. Just hip hop the same way, list of lists, but just sometimes you got to categorize and make sure it makes sense to what you're talking about.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 1:04:18

I think the thing about both ball and hip hop is that you know there's just been so many people who are great at what they do, that I agree with you. I mean, you know you talk about ball handlers. Like I always say to people, check out Marcus Haynes and I say that and I get a strange look. I'm like Marcus Haynes, who played for the Harlem Globe Trotters, and we just talking about ball handling Marcus Haynes to me that's the greatest ball handler ever. And when people talk about ball handlers, they never mentioned Marcus Haynes, right. But I look at Cary, I mean you know he's real, real nice with it. I mean I'm from Detroit, so you know I got to give a big shout out to Isaiah, you know, as a ball handler, like, come on, man, you know. And then you know I'm bad boys, you know, my God, Joe D Isaiah, I mean those were just great teams. Rodman, young Rodman, before he started like that crazy. I got you, you know, I mean. So again, the reason I feel like we love the NBA and the reason we love hip hop is because it's not like there's just one or two guys. There's so many guys who've been, some have been great at a lot of things Some have been great at. You know, maybe one thing specifically. So you know I agree with you Like, are we talking greatest shooters? Are we talking greatest rebounders, greatest defenders? Are we talking most skilled? I mean, you look at these dudes now they can do five or six different things. Back in the day you were expected to do one thing. You know, I think about a cat like Bernard King. I mean, I've seen so many great ballers, like, throughout the course of my life, dr J, who I feel like people forget about today how great Dr J was. The game, both in hip hop and basketball, has had a lot of you know, great individuals, and so it's hard to put it on a list because inevitably you end up leaving somebody off and that's unfortunate. But that's why I like talking about the magnitude, the whole of it, because you want to give all these guys their props, who deserve it.

Jeff: 1:06:27

Dr Boyd. Thank you for coming on, man, we appreciate you. We're privileged to have you on the show. Tell the people where they can find you and follow you where they can get your book.

Dr. Todd Boyd: 1:06:40

Hey, you know Dr Todd Boyd. I'm always hanging around on the Gram, so you know you can find me on Instagram. You know the book Rappers Deluxe. You know. You need that in your life. I'm telling you, cop, that if you want to go to FightOn the publisher, fightoncom, she's the one. You want to go to Amazon you want to go to, you know, barnes and Nobles. You know, I think they got us up in Urban Outfitters, like you know, we're everywhere with this, we global with it. You know, and you know, watch out. You know when you're checking for the documentaries. You never know where I might pop up. You never know where you might see me. So just keep your eyes open and appreciate, you know, the opportunity to be on the show and chop it up with you guys and everybody listening. You know, appreciate the love. You know the shout outs. I see people in the airport shouting me out. Like you know, I love it, I appreciate all of it and I'm just out here trying to rep this culture and promote this book and, you know, try to do it at a high level. That's always been my thing. So you know, as I say, appreciate you and thanks for this opportunity.

Jeff: 1:07:49

Thank you, Dr Boyd. Thank you for tuning in. Shout out to the culture crew. Till next time.